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MorKnolle
03-22-2007, 12:47 AM
Out of curiosity I looked up the game log for Matt Schaub's entire career, and I wasn't overly impressed:
2004 (Atlanta went 11-5 on the season):
@ Carolina (7-9 that season) - 0/0, 0 yards, 2 carries, -2 yards - won game 27-10 - picked up a couple carries in garbage time of a win against a mediocre team
@ Kansas City (7-9 that season) - 2/4, 9 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT - lost game 56-10 - played one, maybe two possessions in garbage time against a mediocre team
@ New Orleans (8-8 that season) - started game, 17/41 (41.5%), 188 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 4 carries, 21 yards, 1 fumble, sacked 3 times - lost game 26-13 - didn't perform overly well in his first career start and lost the game to a mediocre team
@ Seattle (9-7 that season) - 14/22 (63.6%), 133 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 2 carries, 7 yards, sacked 1 time - lost game 28-26 - did not start but played pretty significant time in a close loss to a mediocre playoff team

2005 (Atlanta went 8-8 on the season):
@ Seattle (13-3 that season) - 0/1, 0 yards - lost game 21-18 - saw maybe one possession in a close loss to a good team
vs. Minnesota (9-7 that season) - 5/14 (35.7%), 39 yards, 4 carries, 56 yards - won game 30-10 - played a little over half the game in a win against a mediocre team and didn't perform overly well
vs. New England (10-6 that season) - started game, 18/34 (52.9%), 298 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT, 2 carries, 3 yards, sacked 3 times - lost game 31-28 - started and played the whole game against a good Patriots team and put up a good game
vs. Tampa Bay (11-5 that season) - 0/0, 0 yards, sacked 1 time and fumbled - lost game 30-27 - got in a for a play or two in there and coughed the ball up
@ Detroit (5-11 that season) - 0/0, 0 yards, 2 carries, 7 yards - won game 27-7 - saw a possession or two but didn't attempt a pass in garbage time of a blowout win against a bad team
vs. New Orleans (3-13 that season) - 1/2, 48 yards, 1 carry, 10 yards - won game 36-17 - saw a possession in garbage time against a bad team
vs. Carolina (11-5 on season) - 9/13 (69.2%), 110 yards, 1 TD, sacked 2 times - lost game 44-11 - saw some time late in garbage time in a blowout loss to a playoff-bound team

2006 (Atlanta went 7-9 on the season):
vs. Arizona (5-11 on season) - 0/0, 0 yards, 4 carries, 0 yards - won game 32-10 - saw limited time and didn't attempt a pass in garbage time against a bad team
vs. Cleveland (4-12 on season) - 0/1, 0 yards - lost game 17-13 - attempted one pass in a loss to a bad team
@ Tampa Bay (4-12 on season) - 0/0, 0 yards, 1 carry, 0 yards, 1 fumble - won game 17-6 - fumbled the ball on only carry in a win against a bad team
vs. Dallas (9-7 on season) - 3/5 (60%), 33 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT - lost game 38-28 - got in for a small portion of time and didn't perform overly well in a loss to a decent team
@ Philadelphia (10-6 on season) - 15/21 (71.4%), 175 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 2 carries, 21 yards, sacked 2 times - lost game 24-17 - saw good playing time and played fairly well against a decent team

It's all well and good if you wanted David Carr out of here and wanted a new QB, I don't have a problem with that, and I don't even have a problem with that new guy being Matt Schaub. I do, however, have a problem with the price we paid to get him. Matt Schaub was a late 3rd round pick and has started 2 games in his 3 professional seasons with total stats of 35/75 (46.7%), 498 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT, 6 sacks, and two losses by a combined score of 57-41. I know Schaub is a relatively hot name in the NFL, but I personally think his skills are at best marginally better than David Carr or Sage Rosenfels, and he sure hasn't done anything to this point to prove otherwise. I can't for the life of me see how he was worth two 2nd round picks and a slight trade back in the 1st round this year. I don't care that we might have gotten him for less than his restricted free agent tender was for, I still don't see how he's worth it. In games that he's seen significant playing time (i.e. attempting 5 or more passes) the Falcons went 1-5 and were 0-2 in games that he started.

Going back to my last post (albeit over a week ago), there are very few QBs in this league that can win games for their team more or less on their own. Peyton Manning is the best overall QB in this league, Tom Brady probably has the best ability to lift the play of those around him and win games for his team. Donovan McNabb has shown that ability at a few times in the past. Outside of that, every QB needs a solid team around him to succeed. We have yet to have that here, and Matt Schaub isn't going to be that special QB. We have just deprived ourselves of a high 2nd round pick this year that could have been used to add another instant starter to our team, and we're out a 2nd round pick next year too. Additionally, we have completely taken ourselves out of the possiblity of drafting Adrian Peterson. At #8 there was an outside chance he could get to us if Cleveland decides to take a QB at #3 and no other team could trade up, but moving back to #10 puts another team in front of us that could well be looking at a RB (Atlanta), and two more teams in front of us that could accept a trade down offer from someone else. It leaves us waiting on whoever is left between Laron Landry, Amobi Okoye, and Leon Hall/Darrelle Revis, or maybe even Patrick Willis, and Atlanta is also on the market for every one of those positions as well.

I wouldn't have a problem with this trade at all if we were giving up something like a 4th round pick this year then a conditional pick next year, even if we swap 1sts this year as well. But with the way things went down, we deprive ourselves of an instant starter this year, another likely starter next year, and maybe harm ourselves in the 1st round a bit, and all just to bring in another mediocre QB that is at best a marginal improvement over our current guy. Maybe Matt Schaub will end up being a good QB and make this trade seem mildly worthwhile, but from what he's proven so far in the league that isn't the case, and we took at least two steps backward in attempt to take one step forward with this trade. The one positive about this trade is that it takes us out of the market for a QB in this draft, so we won't be forcing a Brady Quinn pick in the 1st round or a mid-round pick on another marginal QB. Other than that I still don't like this deal.

Also, for those people that were upset about Carr never having to compete for his starting job before, Rick Smith has already come out and said this is our guy, so we get rid of one underperforming QB that has never been truly challenged and give the job to a much less-proven guy and openly say he is our starter, so we still aren't having any kind of starting competition.

I have been a mild fan of David Carr for a while, I think he could have improved and done what we needed him to do, but I acknowledge he isn't anything special and we may indeed have need some kind of change. I would have been fine with this if we had given up a mid-round pick this year and a conditional pick next year in case he doesn't perform as well as hoped, and if we had made him compete with Sage for the starting job. Instead we give up two 2nd round picks and openly hand the reigns over to a 4th year player that has 2 career starts under his belt. To me this looks like a move made by a team that is suddenly desperate to make some kind of change and a rookie GM that is eager to make some kind of splash on things. New regime, same old results. Congrats, we've been hosed again. Here's hoping Schaub proves me wrong and this deal looks good for us in a couple years. I'm still a fan even if we do keep making bone-headed moves.
:texan:

Ole Miss Texan
03-22-2007, 12:56 AM
I hear what your saying. I just hope we already had a deal in place for trading Carr. If we didn't, his value just went way down due to the fact we're not going to be paying him and schaub that money..and one sit the bench. teams will wait for us to cut carr or give us like a 7th rounder.

the 2 2nd round picks hurts too. i'm not worried about our 1st round swap. if anything, i think teams that want to trade up will look to us. if its a few spots down i'd take a 2nd round pick next year if we couldn't get one this year. there will be a run of the top D guys that falls to that 10 spot like maybe landry, nelson, branch, okoye, hall...etc maybe even lynch someone may want to trade up for to beat SF, Buf, etc...and they know we need some picks.

If we don't get anything for Carr and stay at 10, those 2nd rders will hurt me. if we can get something decent for carr (this year or next) AND/or we trade down say 1-6 spots and pick up a 2nd or 3rd...I'm not worried about the trade at all. jmho.

Second Honeymoon
03-22-2007, 01:39 AM
I hear what your saying. I just hope we already had a deal in place for trading Carr. If we didn't, his value just went way down due to the fact we're not going to be paying him and schaub that money..and one sit the bench. teams will wait for us to cut carr or give us like a 7th rounder.

the 2 2nd round picks hurts too. i'm not worried about our 1st round swap. if anything, i think teams that want to trade up will look to us. if its a few spots down i'd take a 2nd round pick next year if we couldn't get one this year. there will be a run of the top D guys that falls to that 10 spot like maybe landry, nelson, branch, okoye, hall...etc maybe even lynch someone may want to trade up for to beat SF, Buf, etc...and they know we need some picks.

If we don't get anything for Carr and stay at 10, those 2nd rders will hurt me. if we can get something decent for carr (this year or next) AND/or we trade down say 1-6 spots and pick up a 2nd or 3rd...I'm not worried about the trade at all. jmho.

carr's value goes up because there is one less QB on the market now. a lot of teams dont want to wait till June to pick up starter competition or even a backup. it smells like he is going to Oakland and I think we could be getting Randy Moss at which point we will get one of the 2nd round picks back for Schaub when we trade Moss to Atlanta. Moss could even be on our team for all we know. It is probably the best value we could get for Carr. One underachieving contract for another underachieving contract.

Kookus
03-22-2007, 03:25 AM
I don't like this deal either, I have to question the front office and new coach Kube's ability to evaluate QB talent, didn't he say he could mould Carr into a first rate QB, when all of us knew he was ruined. I for one could see his happy feet, not that I blame him for the way he got beat up here. It's obvious that when Kubes said he was a player he could work with and passed up on a sure fire hall of famer and home-town boy in V. Young because he was a project, we knew we got a coach that was yes man to the front office and suspect at best at evauluating talent. This deal is a loser for us and our misery will just continue.

Master Po
03-22-2007, 04:07 AM
I have to question the front office and new coach Kube's ability to evaluate QB talent, didn't he say he could mould Carr into a first rate QB, when all of us knew he was ruined.

Why do people keep saying things like this? Ever heard of diplomacy? You think that Kubiak would've gotten the job if he out and out said in his interviews that Carr is awful, and, sorry Mr. McNair but you guys really screwed that one up? He said the right things to put him in a position to maybe, just maybe, get the most out of David. Didn't happen, and the man likely doesn't see it ever happening. Hence the deal for Schaub.

I'm not on these boards as often as most, but when I am it pleases me greatly to see so many people that are so passionate about the Texans. I also appreciate the fact that we all have our opinions....I just wish that more people took a wait and see approach as opposed to the knee jerking. Not asking anyone to give Schaub (or the FO) anything past this season, but hey...we (they) might just be on to something. Lots could happen on draft day(s) as well. Fun times.

VAFalcons
03-22-2007, 04:57 AM
Its all in how you choose to spin it. Regardless, congratulations guys, I know some of you may feel a bit cheated or you may be happy with the trade. But regardless, here is some information on Schaub for ya. Obviously over the years on the Atlanta Falcons message board we have discussed him and Vick many, many........many... times.

IMHO, your getting a QB who will feel right at home behind a Zone Blocking Oline, and has the ability to make quick reads and accurate touch passes. His is well known for his intelligence and is a quick study of defenses and video. He is a clubhouse favorite, and the players call him "Schwabie", when he is on the field everyone gets up and goes to the sidelines to watch, they simply liked the guy. Alot of the fans of Vick did not, but thats another story. His mobility is actually above average. Just take special note of his rushing yards.

Anyway, best of luck to you, ill keep up with him on sports center, but the Falcons are my team, and Vick...... for better or worse is no longer on the hotseat as a starter.

ALL STATS ON THIS THREAD PROVIDED BY :STATS Inc. (http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/index.asp) Provider of Stats for ESPN, FOX, SI and others.

Matt Shaub is a QB with 2 years in the headsets and 2 years of preseason work as well as some game experience.

If you just include just these games below where he saw at least 10 snaps or more. He has a QB Rating of 91.76 and a completition % of 64.5 with 5 TD 3 INT . Notice how much better he has gotten game by game and year by year.

Matt Vs Seatle 76.5 QB Rating 63.6% Completition

01/02/04 (Rookie Season) Came off the bench.
Loss 26-28 22 attempts 14 completed for 133 yards. 1 sack for 2 yards lost. 2 rushes for 7 yards. 1 TD 1 INT.

Matt Vs NO 35.4 QB Rating 42.5% Completition

12/26/04 (Rookie Season) Started Game.

Loss 13-26 attempts 41 completed 17 for 188 yards. 3 sacks for 14 yards lost. 4 rushes for 21 yards. 0 TD 2 INT 1 Fmbl.

Matt vs Minn 44.3 QB Rating 35.7% Completition.

10/04/05 Off the bench.
Win 30-10 attempted 14 completed 5 for 39 yards. 0 sacks. 4 rushes for 56 yards. 0 TD 0 INT.

Matt Vs Patriots 112.1 QB Rating 52.9% Completition

10/09/05 Started Game
Loss 28-31 attempted 34 completed 18 for 298 yards. 3 sacks for 14 yards lost. 2 rushes for 1.5 yards. 3 TD 0 INT

Matt Vs Carolina 120.7 QB Rating 69.2% Completition.

01/01/06 Off the bench.
Loss 11-44 13 attempts 9 completitions for 110 yards. 2 sacks 12 yards lost. 1 TD 0 INT

Matt Vs Philidelphia 92.4 QB Rating 71.4% Completition

12/31/06 Off the Bench
Loss 17-24 21 attempted 15 completed for 175 yards. 2 sacks 8 yards lost. 3 rushes for 21 yards. 1 TD 2 INT

Matt Schaub's career #'s are 69.2 QB Rating 52.2% Completition (this includes every down played including all the one and outs)

His college resume is impressive as well. Schaub was drafted by the Falcons with the 90th overall choice in the third round of the 2004 NFL draft.

College career :

One of the greatest quarterbacks in University of Virginia history, Matt Schaub finished his college career with at least 22 school records. He played in a record 40 games at the quarterback position and finished his career as one of the most accurate passers in Atlantic Coast Conference history (.670 career completion percentage). His Virginia statistics included school career records for yards passing (7502), touchdown passes (56), completions (716), attempts (1069), completion percentage (.670), 300-yard games (8), and 200-yard games (20).

Schaub enrolled at Virginia in the fall of 1999 and redshirted his true freshman season. In 2000, starter Dan Ellis missed some time due to injury, but fellow redshirt freshman Bryson Spinner received the bulk of playing time in relief. After the 2000 season, coach George Welsh retired and was replaced by Al Groh. Schaub was the starter for the first game of the 2001 season at Wisconsin. Over the 2001 season, Schaub and Spinner split quarterbacking duties nearly evenly. The two alternated in some games, while in others either Schaub or Spinner received nearly all the snaps. The two quarterback system worked relatively well with both effectively passing the ball to receiver Billy McMullen, the team's leading offensive threat.

Spinner decided to transfer to the University of Richmond for the 2002 season, seemingly making Schaub the unquestioned starter. However, Schaub was briefly replaced by redshirt freshman Marques Hagans in the first game of the 2002 season against Colorado State University. Hagans was named the starter for the next game, against Florida State University, but was replaced by Schaub who went onto his breakout season. Matt was the 2002 ACC Player of the Year, 2002 ACC Offensive Player of the Year and first-team All-State Virginia Sports Information Directors Association (VaSID) as a senior.

Publicized in the 2003 preseason as a Heisman candidate, Schaub suffered a shoulder injury in the first game of the season and did not return for several games; therefore his overall numbers declined in his senior season. He was the Most Valuable Player of the 2003 Continental Tire Bowl and was twice selected to the All-ACC Academic Football Team. His University of Virginia awards included the John Acree Memorial Trophy, given to the football player with the highest qualities of leadership and unselfish service, and the Ben Wilson Award as the teamís most outstanding offensive player.

coachdent
03-22-2007, 08:32 AM
Its all in how you choose to spin it. Regardless, congratulations guys, I know some of you may feel a bit cheated or you may be happy with the trade. But regardless, here is some information on Schaub for ya. Obviously over the years on the Atlanta Falcons message board we have discussed him and Vick many, many........many... times.

IMHO, your getting a QB who will feel right at home behind a Zone Blocking Oline, and has the ability to make quick reads and accurate touch passes. His is well known for his intelligence and is a quick study of defenses and video. He is a clubhouse favorite, and the players call him "Schwabie", when he is on the field everyone gets up and goes to the sidelines to watch, they simply liked the guy. Alot of the fans of Vick did not, but thats another story. His mobility is actually above average. Just take special note of his rushing yards.

Anyway, best of luck to you, ill keep up with him on sports center, but the Falcons are my team, and Vick...... for better or worse is no longer on the hotseat as a starter.


Clubhouses are in baseball. Locker rooms for football. We need a little bit more than a locker room guy in Houston. but I'm sure Schwabie will keep the guys loose.

Everyone on the sidelines kinda gets up and watches Vick too. Of course, defenses do, the hotdog vendor, everyone in the stadium and on tv. I don't think the nation was holding its breath to see Matt take the field. Perhaps you exaggerate his influence a tad here.

I'm not going to get to excited about his rushing yards. They are NOT impressive and they certainly don't highlight a strength of his; but rather they point out a glaring weakness. Carr had trouble throwing the football, but he was able to run for his life fairly well. I'd take the Pepsi challenge comparing the rushing abilities of these two guys and that conversation would last about .4 seconds. This is the difference between Carr's 40 time of 4.6 and Schaub's time of 5.0. An immobile quarterback is not exactly the winning edge to a struggling offensive line.