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Oilers/Texans
10-24-2004, 04:48 PM
I think that Houston needs to really go after Leftwich. He is hurting right now and they need to try and knock him out early on Sunday. I think he has a bad shoulder and ankle. They need to hit him hard, early, and often.

Keldar
10-24-2004, 05:31 PM
I agree. Unfortunately we have not done a great job at getting to ANY QB.

I'm afraid, very afraid of Baby Huey and that Jacksonville bunch. That D-line and headhuntin' secondary can rattle some cages.

Now to start the great debate. I watched the Indy/J-ville game today and came away with the OPINION that Leftwich, in his second year, may have already surpassed Carr in pocket presence and passing ability. I might not go so far to say "a better Quarterback", but there are some advantages Leftwich. It pains me to think that, so feel free to argue me out of that opinion.

Vinny
10-24-2004, 06:38 PM
I watched the Indy/J-ville game today and came away with the OPINION that Leftwich, in his second year, may have already surpassed Carr in pocket presence and passing ability. I might not go so far to say "a better Quarterback", but there are some advantages Leftwich. It pains me to think that, so feel free to argue me out of that opinion.Pocket feel and field vision have been Carr's weaknesses from the start and those are Leftwich's strengths so that is no surprize. Last year I would have put Leftwich over Carr clearly, but I think the line is blurred a bit more this year. Carr may not have the best instincts when it comes to pocket passing but he is pretty bright and some of that off-season film study he boasted about seems to be paying off this season.

rittenhouserobz
10-24-2004, 07:58 PM
All I know is that this is a good game coming up. Maybe they are saving Joppru as our "secret weapon". :) or not.

Hervoyel
10-24-2004, 10:16 PM
Pocket feel and field vision have been Carr's weaknesses from the start and those are Leftwich's strengths so that is no surprize. Last year I would have put Leftwich over Carr clearly, but I think the line is blurred a bit more this year. Carr may not have the best instincts when it comes to pocket passing but he is pretty bright and some of that off-season film study he boasted about seems to be paying off this season.

No doubt about that in my mind. Do you think that his year one "Baptism by Fire" was responsible (or mostly responsible) for that or is is this just an example of one QB picking it up faster than another? I wonder if Carr would be closer to Leftwich had he not spent so much time on the sideline last season unjured.

TexansTrueFan
10-24-2004, 11:11 PM
Or maybe its because Carr came into a an Expansion Franshise. Getting Sacked as many times as he did the first year i'm sure it got him a little jumpy and slightly nervious. If he would of got drafted by a regular franshise that already had play makers surrounding him he would of progressed just as fast and Byron,,,i mean look at Ben w/ tha steelers !

Lucky
10-24-2004, 11:22 PM
I wonder if Carr would be closer to Leftwich had he not spent so much time on the sideline last season unjured.
Carr closer to Leftwich? Let's hold off on the HOF ceremony for Byron for a while. He just played his best game as a pro, led his team to 6 scoring drives in 9 attempts. Leftwich is clearly getting better and deserves props. But, he's had some poor performances earlier this season, with the Jags averaging 13 pts/game over the 1st 4 games. If a Carr led offense had averaged 13 pts, he'd be crucified on this site. Let's find some perspective. That was a great throw on the fly pattern by Leftwich to Smith early in the 2nd half. Carr makes a play like that in practically every game, now.

Leftwich has played well in the past 4 games and his team is 2-2. Carr has played well the past 4 games, and his team is 3-1. There is no huge chasm between the two QBs that Carr needs to close. Sure, Leftwich does some things better than Carr, just as Carr does some things better than Leftwich. I prefer Carr because he's a better athlete and can beat you in more ways. What I like about both is that the vets on their teams have accepted the young QBs as leaders early on in their careers. It should be a great game next Sunday, and both of these guys should put on a show.

Carr Bombed
10-24-2004, 11:35 PM
Maybe the reason why leftwich supposedly has better pocket presence is because he actually has a pocket to throw in. The good thing is that as we get farther on in the season our oline seems to be playing more consistently, although I'm not quite sold on them yet. David has put up good numbers without a consistent running game which byron has and a quality oline which byron also has. I just pray that he hasn't suffered long term effects in his development because of this. If anybody watched that game today they would know that, that was the most horrid pass defense ever. Now I'm not taking anything away from byron he is playing great for a second year quarterback, all I'm saying is that the colts pass defense is ablosuletly horrid. All year I have been hearing how the colts are superbowl contenders, but after watching todays game there's no way in hell they can even make it there. Today they went against a balanced team that had enough talent on offense that was able to keep their offense off the field and had a quality defense that was able to contain that high explosive offense of the colts. Until the colts get a good defense the will consantly be a team that puts up great offensive numbers during the regular season, but folds during playoffs

HJam72
10-25-2004, 02:05 AM
Every week we want our defense to go after the opposing QB. That's what every fan of every team wants.

Joe average fan wants the following from his team:

1) Pass for 500 yds.

2) Kill the other QB.

3) Autographed stuff.

So, anyway....here's hoping Carr passes for 500 yds. and Leftwich leaves on a stretcher. Oh, and that DD guy has a descent time.

:hehe:

SBTexans08
10-25-2004, 09:53 AM
Yup, I don't see how Byron can have better presence of the pocket if Carr doesn't have an O-line to do him justice. We've seen what Carr can do if he has slight protection....rack up some impressive numbers! What QB is going to do anything behind a horrid O-line....no QB!!

I'm not trying to be biased but really....this isn't like it's Joey Harrington we're talking about here. This is David Carr that unlike Harrington, he has no O-line....at least compared to those two QBs!

Marcus
10-25-2004, 11:01 AM
Now to start the great debate. I watched the Indy/J-ville game today and came away with the OPINION that Leftwich, in his second year, may have already surpassed Carr in pocket presence and passing ability. I might not go so far to say "a better Quarterback", but there are some advantages Leftwich. It pains me to think that, so feel free to argue me out of that opinion.

In order to get an accurate comparison, go back to 2002, the expansion year, where you had that 'wonderful' offensive line, rookie running backs Baxter and Jonathan Wells, a rookie receiver Jabar Gaffney along with Corey Bradford, a Green Bay reject. Remove Carr, insert Leftwich. If you think Leftwich wiould have done better, well then there you go. Your question is answered.

Take the Jaguars last year. They had an established offensive line, good receivers, and Fred Taylor in the backfield. Duh! Remove Leftwich, insert Carr. If you think Carr wouldn't have done as well, there you go. Your question is answered.

I got a question for ya. Who's better . . . Leftwich or Peyton Manning? Who won the game yesterday?

:idea: Ahhhhhhhhhh! It must be one of those team things.

El Tejano
10-25-2004, 11:28 AM
Two things I saw that the Texans need to do to win this game. I believe it was a 3rd and 7 from like the 50. One of Indy's Dbacks drops back 7 yards exactly from the line of scrimmage. Leftwich hits that receiver for 7 yards and the drive continues. We cannot give up that much yardage to these receivers.

Also when Indy brought the house on this Leftwich, he was very indecisive with the football. We have to figure out a good pass rush against this guy because it is hard to blitz that Oline but if it can be done if done right with huge dividends.

TheOgre
10-25-2004, 11:41 AM
If someone had told you that Steve McNair would be the worst QB in the AFC South this year, you would probably think they were crazy.

El Tejano
10-25-2004, 12:40 PM
Stat wise he is. But he is not. Dude just has a crappy team this year. I really believe MCcrereins (or however you spell it) and Calico being gone and out really has an impact with the offense.

jags98
10-25-2004, 04:05 PM
Carr closer to Leftwich? Let's hold off on the HOF ceremony for Byron for a while. He just played his best game as a pro, led his team to 6 scoring drives in 9 attempts. Leftwich is clearly getting better and deserves props. But, he's had some poor performances earlier this season, with the Jags averaging 13 pts/game over the 1st 4 games. If a Carr led offense had averaged 13 pts, he'd be crucified on this site. Let's find some perspective. That was a great throw on the fly pattern by Leftwich to Smith early in the 2nd half. Carr makes a play like that in practically every game, now.

Leftwich has played well in the past 4 games and his team is 2-2. Carr has played well the past 4 games, and his team is 3-1. There is no huge chasm between the two QBs that Carr needs to close. Sure, Leftwich does some things better than Carr, just as Carr does some things better than Leftwich. I prefer Carr because he's a better athlete and can beat you in more ways. What I like about both is that the vets on their teams have accepted the young QBs as leaders early on in their careers. It should be a great game next Sunday, and both of these guys should put on a show. The reason they were down is because we had Byron Leftwich running a more conservative offense and now they are allowing him to open it up..

FBT
10-25-2004, 04:34 PM
I think that Houston needs to really go after Leftwich. He is hurting right now and they need to try and knock him out early on Sunday. I think he has a bad shoulder and ankle. They need to hit him hard, early, and often.

Pure class there. Maybe we should be hoping to injure your QB as well?

texan279
10-25-2004, 04:36 PM
and Leftwich leaves on a stretcher :thumbdown

After all of the injuries we had in the first two years I don't see how anyone can wish injury on another player, I don't care who they play for.

infantrycak
10-25-2004, 04:38 PM
Pure class there. Maybe we should be hoping to injure your QB as well?

Good point--how is this?--like against any NFL QB, the best way to get them to make mistakes and to protect your DB's is to pressure and/or sack them as much as possible. Sounds much more politically correct that way.

FILO_girl
10-25-2004, 04:43 PM
So, anyway....here's hoping Carr passes for 500 yds. and Leftwich leaves on a stretcher. Oh, and that DD guy has a descent time.
:hehe:

:dontknowa

C'mon. Texans fans are better than that. Let our talent speak for itself and not wish injuries....... :crazy:

FBT
10-25-2004, 04:47 PM
Good point--how is this?--like against any NFL QB, the best way to get them to make mistakes and to protect your DB's is to pressure and/or sack them as much as possible. Sounds much more politically correct that way.

That's what is expected from any defense in the NFL. But, to have fans out there wishing for an injury tends to bring bad karma for those who are doing so.

We're not in Jacksonville plotting an injury for your QB. Only trying to gameplan in a manner that will secure a victory for the Jaguars going into a bye week, as any team in the league would.

jacquescas
10-25-2004, 04:53 PM
I"d rather not see an injury, that says that we can't beat them with all their personel out there. Jags fan should be smart enough to know that a team can come from nowhere. We have yet to lose to a team that has a losing record. (Chargers 4-3; Detroit 4-2; Minnesota 5-1) I"m hoping for a great game we both have teams and quarterbacks that are used to making come from behind and last minute victories and this week would be no better, but i only hope that it is Carr's arm that wins the game not Leftwich's.

When the Texans win the AFC south will become VERY clouded, except for the Titans who are living in the cellar.

Joe Texan
10-25-2004, 04:57 PM
Every week we want our defense to go after the opposing QB. That's what every fan of every team wants.

Joe average fan wants the following from his team:

1) Pass for 500 yds.

2) Kill the other QB.

3) Autographed stuff.

So, anyway....here's hoping Carr passes for 500 yds. and Leftwich leaves on a stretcher. Oh, and that DD guy has a descent time.

:hehe:

This is about the most immature statement I have witnessed.

I am your Average Joe Texan and I hope no one gets hurt in the game.
to wish harm on an individual just shows your immaturity towards a football game. Put the beer down and step away from the tailgate to cool off man.

HJam72
10-25-2004, 07:07 PM
Kill, Kill, Kill!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

Keldar
10-25-2004, 11:02 PM
In order to get an accurate comparison, go back to 2002, the expansion year, where you had that 'wonderful' offensive line, rookie running backs Baxter and Jonathan Wells, a rookie receiver Jabar Gaffney along with Corey Bradford, a Green Bay reject. Remove Carr, insert Leftwich. If you think Leftwich wiould have done better, well then there you go. Your question is answered.

Take the Jaguars last year. They had an established offensive line, good receivers, and Fred Taylor in the backfield. Duh! Remove Leftwich, insert Carr. If you think Carr wouldn't have done as well, there you go. Your question is answered.

I got a question for ya. Who's better . . . Leftwich or Peyton Manning? Who won the game yesterday?

:idea: Ahhhhhhhhhh! It must be one of those team things.

I do feel better already. You have put some perspective on the issue in a manner that I didn't really think about.

Dante's Inferno
10-25-2004, 11:11 PM
Please people: Jacksonville took out Steve McNair, one of our most hated rivals, and we still wished him well and hoped he recovered quickly. Injuries are always horrible. Always.

TsJagman
10-25-2004, 11:21 PM
Please people: Jacksonville took out Steve McNair, one of our most hated rivals, and we still wished him well and hoped he recovered quickly. Injuries are always horrible. Always.

Dude, we are talking about fans wishing harm on players. We don't like to see it. Read my Williams thread, you will get the drift.

Vinny
10-25-2004, 11:26 PM
HJam72 is pretty lighthearted for the most part. I think that if you read a few of 72's previous post's I think it is safe to assume that there was a bit of sarcasm used. I think some of us are taking those statements a bit too literally.

Hervoyel
10-26-2004, 10:18 AM
True Vinny. Also while I'm totally against intentionally injuring a player it's a completely accepted and common practice to try and get some licks on a QB to get him hearing footsteps. This is football and trying to get your opponents QB's bell ringing is part of the game. I absolutely don't want to see Byron (or any opposing player) injured in a game. I absolutely do want to see Byron (and any opposing QB) go down in a monstrous hail of sacks on Sunday. Reconciling those two views I see a very narrow distinction.

HJam72
10-26-2004, 03:26 PM
Monstous Hail!!! Monstrous Hail!!! :headbang:

Using my vast intellect, I put everything I had into the thought process of deciding what to write in this post. Aren't you impressed? idonno:

Hervoyel
10-26-2004, 03:35 PM
Monstous Hail!!! Monstrous Hail!!! :headbang:

Using my vast intellect, I put everything I had into the thought process of deciding what to write in this post. Aren't you impressed? idonno:


(In my best "Buzz Lightyear voice") You're mocking me aren't you.

I briefly considered "Avalanche of sacks" but at the last moment I thought a "monstrous hail" of sacks worked better. Ever see what hail can do to a car? I picture Leftwich's helmet looking like that once Walker-Payne-Smith & Co. finish with him.

Oilers/Texans
10-26-2004, 11:57 PM
I never said I was wishing Leftwich got hurt. What I said was that they need to go after him, as should be the case every week against every opponent and their key guys. You can go after a guy and beat and bang him around and he becomes ineffective. He may finish the game, he may not. You just got to knock him out of any kind of groove.

Jwwillis
10-27-2004, 12:16 AM
Actually it is Carr who better have his head on a swivel. We are all too familiar with Jville and there attempts to injure our players. Texans usually don't forget when they get punked. Just ask J.J. Moses.

eriadoc
10-27-2004, 10:44 PM
Unfortunately we have not done a great job at getting to ANY QB.

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you there. The team seems to really be getting it going the past few games. We had problems getting to Culpepper, but so does everyone else in the league. I'm pretty sure McNair, Collins, and Green would tell you that the pressure was there. We may not be getting a lot of sacks yet, but we are getting pressure three of the last four games. If we pressure Leftwich, our secondary can take a couple balls away.