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mikey21
03-21-2007, 02:48 PM
as many people now know about the pending deal that is going to bring Schaub to the Texans, the question I have is was he over paid for. reports are saying the Texans are swapping the 8th pick for the 10th and giving Atlanta this years 2nd round pick and next years 2nd round pick

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6594578
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051


lets also look at the body of work Mr. Shaub has had thus far in the NFL, in 38 games he has started 2 losing both games, he has att 161 passes with 84 comp for a pct of 52.2 and for 1033 yds 6 tds and 6 ints giving schaub at rating of 69.2

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050


if the reports do end up being true, I have the bad feeling that the Texans over paid for Schaub, i understand the possible swapping of first round picks and even maybe one 2nd round pick, but the extra 2nd round pick to me shows the Texans were desperate, now i have no idea what other deals may be in the works either for Carr or trading down even further in the draft, but right now this kind of deal smells and looks kinda like a casserly type deal, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan

Errant Hothy
03-21-2007, 02:51 PM
Shouldn't we wait until we know what the Texans paid (NFL Network is saying a 2+ something else, ESPN's ticker said 1 2nd but the talking head said 2 2nds, etc)?

Daonly
03-21-2007, 02:52 PM
#10, Peterson, Landry, Nelson, or Hall.

2nd round pick, Matt Schaub

3-7 anyone's guest.

David Carr? traded to Raiders for 1st pick in the 3rd or for Moss or a 3 way swap to the Raiders where we get Green bays 2nd round pick. :poker:

afcman
03-21-2007, 02:53 PM
Did the Texans over pay for Schaub ?

As of now.....NO!

I really have not been this excited since the first 2 seasons.

Now who will be our backup?

:yahoo:

TexanFanInCC
03-21-2007, 02:53 PM
laron landry = next bob sanders. ill take lands

all ive heard was that we swapped 1st rounders...gave up a second this yr, AND next yr's second rounder. yeah that may be a little too much so we will haveta see how schaub does. at this point though, schaub is going to be the starter. for what ive heard about what the texans are giving up, i just dont see schaub playing behind sage, NOR CARR for that matter. its pretty inevitable what is going to happen. i can honestly see carr in a raider uniform.

Brandyon
03-21-2007, 02:54 PM
YES THEY OVERPAID

you give this much up in trades for a QB who has a track record record, not some dude who is pure hype as of now. It might pay off... the dude might be great, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have given up as much as they are supposed to at this time. The Falcons are going to have a #8 pick, and two second rounders... two more second rounder picks next year... now THAT is a deal... i would much rather be in their shoes.

joedinkle
03-21-2007, 02:54 PM
We're giving them WHAT?!!?!?!?!?

wrestler4life
03-21-2007, 02:55 PM
Shouldn't we wait until we know what the Texans paid (NFL Network is saying a 2+ something else, ESPN's ticker said 1 2nd but the talking head said 2 2nds, etc)?

That is what I have heard as well. If we only gave up a 2nd rounder when it was said that someone would have to give up a 1st and 3rd for him, then I say we did not overpay.

fingers5
03-21-2007, 02:55 PM
If it did cost them that 2008 second, then we definitely overpaid. This team has shown nothing but contempt for the talent that is available in the upper rounds and continues to throw draft picks around like PacMan does singles. When are they going to learn that good things do come to those that draft intelligently.

My only prayer is that someone within the Texans organization finds someone as stupid as they are when it comes to trading D.C.

blockhead83
03-21-2007, 03:08 PM
Yea they did if they gave up two second round choices. Schaub's an unproven player, and you're going to give up two first day draft picks for him? This could blow up in our face worse than the PBuch fiasco. I was hoping the days of these kinds of deals left with Casserly.

wrestler4life
03-21-2007, 03:09 PM
I just checked, and it appears that they did give up 2nds in this and next years drafts. That is 2 Demeco's right there.
I really think that we overpaid after getting burnt in the search for others.

TopTexanFan16
03-21-2007, 03:11 PM
If it did cost them that 2008 second, then we definitely overpaid. This team has shown nothing but contempt for the talent that is available in the upper rounds and continues to throw draft picks around like PacMan does singles. When are they going to learn that good things do come to those that draft intelligently.

My only prayer is that someone within the Texans organization finds someone as stupid as they are when it comes to trading D.C.

Amen!!!! thank you

Smokedawg
03-21-2007, 03:12 PM
Sad day for the Texans, we got ripped bad

TexanSam
03-21-2007, 03:12 PM
I think they overpaid with two 2nd round picks, but not by much. If Matt Schaub works out, then it's a good deal. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say we aren't going to have a high 2nd round pick in 2008. I'm guessing we'll have a mid-to-late 2nd rounder in 2008 so that pick won't be worth as much.

fingers5
03-21-2007, 03:15 PM
I think they overpaid with two 2nd round picks, but not by much. If Matt Schaub works out, then it's a good deal. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say we aren't going to have a high 2nd round pick in 2008. I'm guessing we'll have a mid-to-late 2nd rounder in 2008 so that pick won't be worth as much.

Ah, the Charley Casserly mentality. Lets not try to use them to our advantage, lets just give them away. (see the PBuc trade)

TexanSam
03-21-2007, 03:17 PM
Ah, the Charley Casserly mentality. Lets not try to use them to our advantage, lets just give them away. (see the PBuc trade)

How can you say we are giving them away until you see Schaub play? Unless you can somehow see what the future is like and tell me Schaub is going to be a bust, you can't say it's a terrible trade. If Schaub becomes the QB the Texans think he can be (a good or very good QB), then it's not a bad deal. You take risks making trades.

sleepwalker
03-21-2007, 03:17 PM
You just can't put a price on shutting up Carr haters and VY crybabies...This trade was worth every penny.

4Texans
03-21-2007, 03:17 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4649552.html

Yes, we've over paid. I've heard all the hype over this guy the past couple of years, but what's he done to be worthy of 2 seconds round picks, and switching 1st? We could draft a just as proven QB this year, rather than give up this much. Schaub was a 3rd 4 years ago and hasn't played much at all. Atlanta only got a 2nd from GB for Farve. What makes this guy so speacial. He better show some stuff on the field real quick. I hope we get a 2nd from the Raiders for Carr, if we have to give up 2 2nd's for Schaub. This bothers me.:confused:

Only time will tell, and I hope Schaub works out.

rollinstone18
03-21-2007, 03:21 PM
I think they overpaid with two 2nd round picks, but not by much. If Matt Schaub works out, then it's a good deal. Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say we aren't going to have a high 2nd round pick in 2008. I'm guessing we'll have a mid-to-late 2nd rounder in 2008 so that pick won't be worth as much.

That's a big IF

Clash_Fan3605
03-21-2007, 03:22 PM
Could we still get Landry at the 10?
& I also think 2 2nd rounders is a bit too much, maybe a 2nd this year & a 3rd next year would be better.

Dime
03-21-2007, 03:23 PM
What is this... A board full of experts? We, as fans, dont know if he has been overpaid for or not until he plays a few seasons for us. Kub and Rick have made some EXCELLENT decisions this offseason, and now you are going to say they dont know what thier doing before the contract is even dry? None of you including me can make any true decision if we overpaid until Schaub has played at least a few years with us. Otherwise, your wasting breath. They (Kub and Rick) have made some really great moves this offseason, and I believe this leads into further plans to come in the days ahead. Wait... and quit shaking your head until you have a real reason too....:wild:

TexanSam
03-21-2007, 03:23 PM
That's a big IF

Your going to take a risk on any trade though.

jagsfanincanada
03-21-2007, 03:23 PM
Yes they overpaid. Two seconds and moving down 2 spots for a guy that's played 2 games? Sorry but you guys got fleeced.

Exithios
03-21-2007, 03:25 PM
Yes they overpaid. Two seconds and moving down 2 spots for a guy that's played 2 games? Sorry but you guys got fleeced.
Yeah? Whats the other Jacksonville Jaguar fan think about it?

gjmac2
03-21-2007, 03:25 PM
Just my :twocents:, but I think this is a good deal.....

We probably would have spent our 2nd or 3rd reound pick on a qb, and we get one with some experience.

99.99% sure that David Carr is now gone (This is the Texans, so anything is possible!). Which means we will recoup something in the way of draft pick(s) and/or player(s). Probably a 4th, but you never know.

I am fairly sure that # 10 is not where the Texans will be. IMO, very likley that they trade down and try to again pick up extra pick(s). I could see them targeting Reggie Nelson in the 1st.

So, all in all, not a bad deal, IMO.

noxiousdog
03-21-2007, 03:27 PM
Atlanta only got a 2nd from GB for Farve.

It was a 1st. (http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/players/Brett_Favre/)

texasguy346
03-21-2007, 03:28 PM
Did we overpay for Schaub? At the moment I'd say yes. It's that extra 2nd round pick in 2008 that's bothering me. However, if Schaub comes in & proves to be a better QB than Carr ever was & gives us some confidence in the QB position for the next several years then I think it becomes a fair deal.

NederlandTexan
03-21-2007, 03:30 PM
It gives us a chance to part with Carr and get a starting caliber QB. Before you go &ithching about what we gave up in the trade, look at what we got (Schaub) and what we will get by trading DC ( draft picks ) . And please stop comparing this front office with what left last year, please.

mikey21
03-21-2007, 03:30 PM
now that the shock is over for me I have taken a moment to think this through, the only way the Texans can lessen the blow of this pending deal is for them to some way some how come up with a 3rd round pick for Carr and or trade down in the first round and grab more picks. it is hard to have faith in a front office after what we the Texans fans had to endure with Casserly, but we have to give Smith and Kubiak a chance to prove themselves, but deep down I still think they overpaid

Mr teX
03-21-2007, 03:30 PM
My personal opinion is no, IF this guy can be our future & lead us places DC couldn't then a swap & 2 second rounders is nothing in the long run. OF course this a big if, but you eventually would have had to take a chance on someone whether it was a rookie, or whatever.

I'll just put it like this, I doubt he can be any worse than DC was & i was not at any point comfortable with sage being the man here, even if it was for a short while.

With this potential trade, we get a young guy, who isn't already "wrecked" (no pun intended) somewhat by what has happened to him in previous years.

Great move, I'm just sad to realize that both my guys (Peterson, Landry) may be officially out of reach.

4Texans
03-21-2007, 03:30 PM
It was a 1st. (http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/players/Brett_Favre/)

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

So now I firmly believe that our 2nd rd pick this year would have been plenty for Schaub, without the addtional pick and switching 1st rounders.

Lifetime Oiler/Texan Fan
03-21-2007, 03:31 PM
I agree....I see them trading down for a Nelson and a third or fourth. We will also get a fourth for Carr. So we will have a low 1st round pick, two 3rd round picks, and two 4th round picks. We also get Schaub in this whole deal. I think Smith did a good job.

OldEagle1
03-21-2007, 03:33 PM
:wacko: Didn't give away the farm, but, pretty close to it for an unproven backup... :wacko:

MATRIX
03-21-2007, 03:36 PM
Could we still get Landry at the 10?
& I also think 2 2nd rounders is a bit too much, maybe a 2nd this year & a 3rd next year would be better.


I'd rather see us somehow get Lynch in a 2nd RD trade with Oakland. Not haveing a #2 next year could be trouble if we need a RB. And Green is not going to be more than our "releif" till we get a great back. Either now, or next year...maybe the year after. i don't see Green playing all 4 years of the deal here.

kcwilson
03-21-2007, 03:37 PM
Let's check back in on this post in early 2009.

I am glad that the Texans are at least dedicated to making moves and taking some of these risks to change the makeup of the team.

hollywood_texan
03-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Did the Texans overpay? Time will tell...

But, they have taken a very big risk and I predict this will make or break the Kubiak/Smith regime.

TexansFanatic
03-21-2007, 03:39 PM
If they gave up two second rounders and switched positions in the first round, then YES, they overpaid. I'm sort of sick to my stomach. Here we go again, another 4 years of mediocrity.

michaelm
03-21-2007, 03:39 PM
Yeah? Whats the other Jacksonville Jaguar fan think about it?

The other one still thinks Lefty is a good QB...

Rep coming your way. That was too funny!

infantrycak
03-21-2007, 03:42 PM
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

So now I firmly believe that our 2nd rd pick this year would have been plenty for Schaub, without the addtional pick and switching 1st rounders.

Brett had 4 attempts with 0 completions except for the 2 the other teams caught prior to be traded by Atlanta. Hind sight is nice, but not really appropriate.

Chicagotexan1
03-21-2007, 03:42 PM
Is Rick Smith Casserly's Manchurian Candidate? Geez, please don't have another PBurnt type result.

hadaad
03-21-2007, 03:42 PM
I don't think there is any way Landry will be there at 10. I think that's why Atlanta traded up.

I think we overpaid but just like a reach in the draft, if it translates into wins, I'll somehow find a way to deal with it.

Silver Oak
03-21-2007, 03:44 PM
You just can't put a price on shutting up Carr haters and VY crybabies...This trade was worth every penny.

Mind if I use those words as my sig?

SESupergenius
03-21-2007, 03:45 PM
The Texans did overpay but it makes me wonder why they didn't just sign Garcia or Ramsey and still have draft picks. The Texans are almost notorious for overpaying free agents and having bad trades, why would this one be any different?

I do like Schaub however but fans will need to be patient because he won't have a lot of weapons unless we do something with the pass blocking unit. Green is a good start however because he;s one of the best blocking RB's.....if he's healthy enough to stay in there.

El Tejano
03-21-2007, 03:46 PM
I am fairly sure that # 10 is not where the Texans will be. IMO, very likley that they trade down and try to again pick up extra pick(s). I could see them targeting Reggie Nelson in the 1st.



I was thinking the same thing. This means Nelson. I think Kubes is going to build his D through the draft.

infantrycak
03-21-2007, 03:47 PM
I don't think there is any way Landry will be there at 10. I think that's why Atlanta traded up.

The Atlanta journalist that was on the radio didn't say anything about Landry (who very well might make it to #10 anyway) and said the team was interested in trying to package together picks to move up again and get Calvin Johnson.

disaacks3
03-21-2007, 03:47 PM
My gut reaction to the question is "He** YES we overpaid!!". I don't care HOW enamored the Falcons were w/ him, he simply has no track record to support 2 second-rounders & dropping 2 spots in the 1st rd. this year.

It especially pains me because we showed how good this new crew could draft last year, and losing draft picks is the last thing we needed IMHO.

Clash_Fan3605
03-21-2007, 03:47 PM
I was thinking the same thing. This means Nelson. I think Kubes is going to build his D through the draft.

I really hope we get Nelson if that is the case...then a WR in the 3rd

real
03-21-2007, 03:49 PM
I think once the trade winds up being finalized, next years #2 will wind up being conditional...JMO....

blockhead83
03-21-2007, 03:54 PM
Brett had 4 attempts with 0 completions except for the 2 the other teams caught prior to be traded by Atlanta. Hind sight is nice, but not really appropriate.

I understand you're aiming for the bright side of this deal, but how many times have teams traded for another team's backup and ended up getting the crap end of the stick? Brett Farve is the exception not the norm, eh? Is Schaub going to be Feeley or Favre?

GanadoUHCoog
03-21-2007, 03:57 PM
yes we overpaid...by 1 second round pick
this will hurt us in the long run....trading away picks just like casserly did....you would think mcnair would know better than to allow this AGAIN
I am very surprised we are trading away 2 2nd round picks with the great draft day we had last year in rounds 2+

2 2nd rounders for a QB that has thrown 160 passes and is all hype is way too much...
we should have just traded Carr for a 4th rounder and drafted a QB in rounds 2,3,or 4 and continued to build through the draft.

Now with no 2nd round pick this year and none next year...there goes increasing talent through the draft...I guess we will be overpaying for over the hill veterans again like casserly did

the cycle continues.......this is a TERRIBLE move

infantrycak
03-21-2007, 03:58 PM
I understand you're aiming for the bright side of this deal, but how many times have teams traded for another team's backup and ended up getting the crap end of the stick? Brett Farve is the exception not the norm, eh? Is Schaub going to be Feeley or Favre?

I'm not aiming for the bright side, just pointing out that Favre had proven even less in Atlanta prior to being traded for more. Sure there is a risk, less than with a draft pick, but still a risk--as pointed out in the main Schaub thread Favre is hardly the only successful backup ever traded--Trent Green, Matt Hasselback also come to mind.

Clash_Fan3605
03-21-2007, 03:59 PM
yes we overpaid...by 1 second round pick
this will hurt us in the long run....trading away picks just like casserly did....you would think mcnair would know better than to allow this AGAIN
I am very surprised we are trading away 2 2nd round picks with the great draft day we had last year in rounds 2+

2 2nd rounders for a QB that has thrown 160 passes and is all hype is way too much...
we should have just traded Carr for a 4th rounder and drafted a QB in rounds 2,3,or 4 and continued to build through the draft.

Now with no 2nd round pick this year and none next year...there goes increasing talent through the draft...I guess we will be overpaying for over the hill veterans again like casserly did

the cycle continues.......this is a TERRIBLE move

I like the trade, but the additional 2nd round pick is killing me!! :brickwall

BSofA04
03-21-2007, 04:05 PM
Like I stated before, this move to bring in Schaub will only be worth it if the offense generates some consistency. Consistent play leads to rested defenses which, in theory, leads to fourth quarter domination. I guess it's bittersweet because we all we under the assumption that the Texans were looking to get picks, not trade them away.

rafterticket
03-21-2007, 04:05 PM
I like the trade, but the additional 2nd round pick is killing me!! :brickwall

Considering our trade history, we ought to be gun shy every time our team makes a deal. New guys or not.

humbleone
03-21-2007, 04:06 PM
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:gun:

Clash_Fan3605
03-21-2007, 04:07 PM
Considering our trade history, we ought to be gun shy every time our team makes a deal. New guys or not.

Agreed.

HuttoKarl
03-21-2007, 04:08 PM
You just can't put a price on shutting up Carr haters and VY crybabies...This trade was worth every penny.

CHEERS!

hadaad
03-21-2007, 04:08 PM
The Atlanta journalist that was on the radio didn't say anything about Landry (who very well might make it to #10 anyway) and said the team was interested in trying to package together picks to move up again and get Calvin Johnson.

If Landry makes it past Atlanta AND Miami, I will eat my hat (the small one).

Shiney_McShine
03-21-2007, 04:09 PM
DId you over pay? Hard to say now, but I can assure you it is not another Scott Mitchell debacle.

Dawgnme
03-21-2007, 04:10 PM
Rick made the move knowing he still has Carr in his back pocket, and possibly Kubiak knows something about Plummer the public doesn't. I'm willing to let these next 5 weeks play out before I question Smith's decisions - he's been pretty much on the money so far this offseason. Don't forget about Minnesota, they wanted Schaub something terrible, and there are VERY few options left out there for them. It's amazing what putting up 300 yards on the Patriots can do for your trade value.

texasguy346
03-21-2007, 04:11 PM
I'm not aiming for the bright side, just pointing out that Favre had proven even less in Atlanta prior to being traded for more. Sure there is a risk, less than with a draft pick, but still a risk--as pointed out in the main Schaub thread Favre is hardly the only successful backup ever traded--Trent Green, Matt Hasselback also come to mind.

Add in Jake Delhomme as well.

Spike
03-21-2007, 04:15 PM
If it weren't for the 2008 2nd, I would be perfectly happy with this pick.

I think a lot of this depends on what the organization is able to get for Carr, plus what we do with the 10 pick. We needed an upgrade at QB, but we also needed an upgrade at a lot of other positions. If we are able to trade-down and/or trade Carr for some additional picks, I think that the loss of the 2008 pick may be easier to digest.

Whether or not you agree with the pick or are undecided (like me), you have to respect the organization for making an aggressive move to improve the team. If Schaub ends up being the leader on the field and in the locker room that Carr wasn't, this could improve our team more than any draft pick we could have made - including Adrian Peterson. If we didn't make a move, the best we could have hoped for this year was a .500 record. It may be a long shot, but we at least have a shot of seeing a significant improvement this year. The nice thing about this move is that we get a QB in time to make all of the off-season camps in to get up to speed with the system and the team.

If this guy is a flop, this franchise could be lost for the next several years and Smith and Kubiak will be looking for new jobs. This is a gutsy move, but has the potential to get this franchise turned around on a much quicker timeline.

Wharton
03-21-2007, 04:15 PM
This would be the MOST STUPID move they could make.

We have a huge lack of talent and need every pick we can get. Here they go giving away picks.

I think I'll be wearing one of these this year :bag:

rascous
03-21-2007, 04:16 PM
Let's not sugar coat it. Falcons must be doing high-5's on their board. Two second round pic's and maybe early ones at that is a great deal for them. They may even be in a position to trade for CJ now.

We have an apparent good, but untested QB. Did we have 2 second round pics?

dwilt72
03-21-2007, 04:18 PM
The Texans should be able to trade down in the first round and recoup a 2nd rounder. This is a pretty good draft to trade down IMO.

It's hard to say we overpaid until we know exactly what they paid. We also haven't seen Schaub play much. That being said, we have heard the Texans would draft a QB on the first day. This way we get a QB with a couple of seasons and a couple of starts under his belt. I'm ALL FOR IT!

hollywood_texan
03-21-2007, 04:18 PM
If you ever wondered why Casserly was drafting those QBs uner his reign, this Schuab situation is the reason.

Deals like this don't happen very often, which is why working for something like this is like winning the lotto.

Did the Texans overpay? Time will tell...

One thing is for certain, they are taking a very BIG RISK!!!

No risk, no reward though.

This move tells me they are looking to be above .500 and challenge for a playoff spot to the final week of the season in 2007. Otherwise, I don't see how this really makes sense. They would have been better off getting rid of Carr and accumulating a pick or two and see what comes down the pike. I would have opted for the leave the QB position open and improve the rest of the team first.

Kubiak/Smith have to see something in Schuab that is special.

I just hope this isn't some stupid McNair requirement of finding a high-priced marketable replacement to Carr.

I really think the best option is getting rid of Carr and being patient in finding his replacement with very little commitment. Finding a QB with a lot of hype is easy, finding the one that can live up to hype is the hard part.

If the Schuab deal goes through, we are stuck with this guy, better or worse, for the next 5 years or so.

texasguy346
03-21-2007, 04:19 PM
Let's not sugar coat it. Falcons must be doing high-5's on their board. Two second round pic's and maybe early ones at that is a great deal for them. They may even be in a position to trade for CJ now.

We have an apparent good, but untested QB. Did we have 2 second round pics?

It's reported to be for a 2nd Round pick this year (2007) and a 2nd Round pick next year (2008).

TexanSam
03-21-2007, 04:19 PM
The Atlanta journalist that was on the radio didn't say anything about Landry (who very well might make it to #10 anyway) and said the team was interested in trying to package together picks to move up again and get Calvin Johnson.

Man, the Falcons go through wide recievers like we do at every other position.

TheOgre
03-21-2007, 04:21 PM
Looks like the Texans want to make sure that Demeco Ryans is their only great 2nd round selection for the first decade of the franchise.

pebblescds
03-21-2007, 04:21 PM
I really do not think so? I like this deal. This is the best deal we're gonna get without the money don't have available. The bright side of which there are many: No waiting on a rookie, Vince isn't coming so we should stop waiting on superman:superman:

I'm still gonna cheer for him though...I like Schaub in this offense with Ahman Green and Owen Daniels/AJohnson. We still need to draft another reciever and a cover corner.

Its not bad at all: Its dropping from 8 to 10, and the 2nd rd pk in 07,08? For you to aquire a franchise QB> at age 25? Dude is 6/5 w/ a good arm? And has leadership skills, something we are lacking? He's tall and throws well on the run, sound familiar, that's what Plummer would've done? DC is only 6/2 and runs outta bounds for sacks... I like going into next year w/ Sage and Matt, its as good a scenario as we can get w/ NO MONEY. We should be doing break-dancin right now as Texan fans...:elmo:

AustinJB
03-21-2007, 04:21 PM
OMG! The sky is falling, :eek: the sky is falling!!!:eek:...the NFL Network said so.

:joker:

Before drawing too many conclusions, why doesn't everyone wait until we officially know exactly what happened? Even then, who knows if it's a good deal yet? I, for one, like the judgement calls that the new FO has made and will trust them w/ this one until proven wrong.

El Amigo Invisible
03-21-2007, 04:22 PM
Looks like the Texans want to make sure that Demeco Ryans is their only great 2nd round selection for the first decade of the franchise.

He might be worth one second rounder.

grinch1134
03-21-2007, 04:29 PM
Where are all the people who pledged we should do anything to get rid of Carr? Make up your mind. This forces us in another direction. Keeping Carr is the other option, any takers.

Lucky
03-21-2007, 04:32 PM
In terms of the draft value table, what did the Texans give up for Matt Schaub?

Texans 2nd round pick (#39) = 520 points
Point difference between the 8th (1400 points) and the 10th pick (1300 points) = 100 points (early 4th round)
2008 2nd round pick (generally considered the same as a '07 3rd) = 250 points

Matt Schaub = 520+100+250 = 850 points, or the 20th pick in the 1st round

TNTitan
03-21-2007, 04:38 PM
wouldnt it have been nice wondering which DE to take in this draft when you all could have had VY. My oh my

TexanSam
03-21-2007, 04:40 PM
Looks like the Texans want to make sure that Demeco Ryans is their only great 2nd round selection for the first decade of the franchise.

What? Tony Hollings doesn't count?

texas mopar
03-21-2007, 04:40 PM
as many people now know about the pending deal that is going to bring Schaub to the Texans, the question I have is was he over paid for. reports are saying the Texans are swapping the 8th pick for the 10th and giving Atlanta this years 2nd round pick and next years 2nd round pick

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6594578
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051


lets also look at the body of work Mr. Shaub has had thus far in the NFL, in 38 games he has started 2 losing both games, he has att 161 passes with 84 comp for a pct of 52.2 and for 1033 yds 6 tds and 6 ints giving schaub at rating of 69.2

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050


if the reports do end up being true, I have the bad feeling that the Texans over paid for Schaub, i understand the possible swapping of first round picks and even maybe one 2nd round pick, but the extra 2nd round pick to me shows the Texans were desperate, now i have no idea what other deals may be in the works either for Carr or trading down even further in the draft, but right now this kind of deal smells and looks kinda like a casserly type deal, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan

If AP ends up falling to #8 I will scream until my ears bleed!!! Bad deal we need every pick we can get , because we have alot of holes to fill!! IMO

Texan_Bill
03-21-2007, 04:44 PM
If AP ends up falling to #8 I will scream until my ears bleed!!!

Oh... You know thats going to happen sure as *******!!

phantom17
03-21-2007, 04:44 PM
If AP ends up falling to #8 I will scream until my ears bleed!!! Bad deal we need every pick we can get , because we have alot of holes to fill!! IMO

Oh well, prepare to scream!:) I probably will too!

Second Honeymoon
03-21-2007, 04:49 PM
Oh well, prepare to scream!:) I probably will too!

i will be there right alongside ya screaming...not gonna happen though...lets just hope Landry falls to #10 because he would be perfect at 10.

yourfavoritetexan42
03-21-2007, 04:50 PM
we could have given up a 4th rounder and i would be upset. Rick Smith and the Texans must gotten matt schaub confused with steve young or something.... because there isnt a thing that this kid has done that hasbeen the least bit impressive.

If Matt S is our qb.... i dont want you here and you better lead us to the playoffs... or i might become a converted cowboy fan. because at least they try to win.

shanden
03-21-2007, 04:50 PM
This may seem a pricey deal but there are a few factors that may not cause as bad a winces as it currently seems.

First of all it is apparent that Kubiak and Smith felt getting a young but NFL tested quarterback (with excellent stats -excluding rookie season), that could start immediately, was a superior choice to paying a high price to move up in the draft to get Quinn (an untested rookie who would not even start the first half of the season). Imagine what the Texans would have to pay to get Quinn in Detroit's spot or Cleavland's. Internally, the Texans must have decided that Quinn was not dropping to them and had to ask themselves if they thought Schaub was a better prospect then Quinn, especially factoring in that he could start immediately and has been NFL tested. That makes switching two spots down (to plenty of DB and DT defensive talent or a better position to justify getting Levi Brown) not a bad call with a second round pick.

The Texans must also have also not like the idea of rolling the dice on a benchwarming rookie in the third round. Comparing Schaub to this talent is no contest.

I do think Schaub was one of the best QB options the Texans have even mulled over. Including Garcia, Plummer, and Ramsey.

If Schaub becomes a probowler this discussion will all be moot. There is sound reasoning that the defense improves if they are not on the field so long...since many of the most searing memories I have of Carr's tenure is that he could not sustain a drive and keep the opposing offense off the field. Never mind about not being able to conduct a two minute drill much less get 1 or 2 first downs to drain clock. I am convinced the defense did not play as well at times, because of all the three-and-outs and lack of taking advantage of defensive turnovers.

Most of the teeth gnashing seems to be over the 2008 pick the Texans give up. That may be some concern, but the Texans have a huge windfall next year that they do not have this year. The Texans have to build through the draft this year because of cap issues and shear quantity of positions in need. Next year the Texans will have somewhere between 35-50 million in cap space to act like San Fran and New England is this year on the FA market. If the Texans land 4 starting quality veteren players in FA the lost 2008 pick won't sting nearly as bad.

The more I think about it that may be the overall plan. Use the draft this year to fill gaps and do it on the cheap along with 30>year old veterens to provide depth. Next year, fill gaps via top talent in FA and draft depth.
It is also apparent Kubiak are willing to stake their jobs on this move. I have to respect them for that, since there is no mistaking this risk for what it is. If Schaub is a quality starter, they are genius, if not Kubiak goes back to assistant coaching.

Brandyon
03-21-2007, 04:51 PM
I think once the trade winds up being finalized, next years #2 will wind up being conditional...JMO....

fingers crossed

Gman84
03-21-2007, 04:54 PM
From a neutral point of view, I'm not surprised at the price. I think the fact the Texans have managed to stay in the top ten and could yet get at least something back for Carr is also a consideration.

Bottom line is, history shows you pay more for QB's, both in salary and compensation. Everyone is looking for 'the guy' and Schuab is young and has a good rep round the league despite little playing time.

If he works out, the Texans will only get better and the point of using draft picks is to get better. If he flops, the price will look to high regardless of what it was.

I hope he works out for you guys though, IMO, I think the Texans needed to go in a different direction and at least if he does work out, you should see the results pretty quickly. If the Texans had gone the route of trying to trade up for Quinn or Russell, it's a case of being patience again with a rookie and did you guys really want that?

Zagen30
03-21-2007, 04:55 PM
Hopefully that 2nd rounder next year will be much closer to a 3rd rounder.

hadaad
03-21-2007, 05:01 PM
we could have given up a 4th rounder and i would be upset. Rick Smith and the Texans must gotten matt schaub confused with steve young or something.... because there isnt a thing that this kid has done that hasbeen the least bit impressive.

If Matt S is our qb.... i dont want you here and you better lead us to the playoffs... or i might become a converted cowboy fan. because at least they try to win.

3 td, 0 int and nearly 300 yards against the Patriots isn't impressive? In the least?

You're a hard man to please, YFT42.
I would have been angry if Houston moved down two spots in the draft and gave up 2 seconds for Steve Young. He's old, has concussion issues, and really, what does ESPN need with draft picks?

NRowl
03-21-2007, 05:33 PM
The true value of this trade will not be known until the end of next year.

In regards to todays transaction: Schaub for swapped 1st picks and 2nd picks in 2007 & 2008 seems like we gave up too much. But I believe Rick Smith has factored in other considerations which will show this move as very favorable in the future.

First, as many can probably predict the David Carr era in Houston is over. We should be able to deal Carr for a draft pick (probably 4th round) which should be noted in this equation.

Second, I figure the Texans have renegotiated Schaubs contract with an extension which will be for much less then what the 1st overall pick in the draft is to be paid - I beleive Carr's 2007 cap figure is (8.75M). For arguments sake, lets figure Schaub will be paid 6M per year.

With these factors in mind, this deal should wind up looking something like:

David Carr and swapping of Rd. 1 picks, swapping this years 2nd Rd. for a 4th Rd. pick, and next years 2nd Rd. pick for Matt Schaub and a decent free agent player to be paid with the amount saved from Carr's contract (I invision a player such as Cato June for 3M per year).

Basically we got Schaub for this years first round pick being 2 positions lower and next years second round pick. Then we get a decent free agent and out from under Carr's contract for swapping a 2nd round pick with a 4th round pick.

If everything works out I want to be the first to congratulate Mr. Smith for pulling off a very good trade.

FalconsFan
03-21-2007, 05:39 PM
You guys got ripped off.

thunderkyss
03-21-2007, 05:55 PM
In terms of the draft value table, what did the Texans give up for Matt Schaub?

Texans 2nd round pick (#39) = 520 points
Point difference between the 8th (1400 points) and the 10th pick (1300 points) = 100 points (early 4th round)
2008 2nd round pick (generally considered the same as a '07 3rd) = 250 points

Matt Schaub = 520+100+250 = 850 points, or the 20th pick in the 1st round

So we give up a 1st round pick(basically) for a third(basically.... Shaub was picked in the third correct??) What have we seen from Shaub to make us think he'd do any better than Sage?? or Ramsey for that matter, and we could have had Ramsey for less... (from what I understand, we didn't even try to match the Denver offer) at least we'd still have our 2nd Round pick(Drew Stanton could be as good as Shaub) this year, and our second next.

I don't really know how I feel about this yet. But early impressions don't look good. Giving up a 1st & a third for Shaub(what would be required to get him as a RFA) was goofy. I didn't think the Falcons would get it. We basically gave up a first(while managing to keep our first)...

My heads spinning.

If Quinn makes it to Miami, I'll be upset. I think he'll be there at 8, and I think he has a good shot at being a true franchise QB.

If Kalil makes it to Atlanta in the second.. ooh I'll be sooo mad.

If Sage gets us to a winning season, I'll be scratching my head. Heck, I'll be scratching my head if Sage starts. We basically gave a 1st for Shaub, he's been "learning" for 4 years, he should be ready to go.

Shaub better put up 300 yards on the Colts, & lead us to a victory, that's all I got to say.

Lucky
03-21-2007, 06:03 PM
If Quinn makes it to Miami, I'll be upset. I think he'll be there at 8...
I don't think so. More importantly, I don't think Kubiak & Smith believed he would be. I'm under the impression that Quinn has a promise to go somewhere in the top 3.

Here's what I think about this trade: If I'm the GM or head coach, I don't make the deal. But, Kubiak deserves the chance to coach the players he wants to coach. Dom Capers got that chance and failed. But he got that chance. If Schaub isn't the answer, and the Texans don't become winners...it's Kubiak's and Smith's job. Let them coach the players they want to coach.

Grape Ape
03-21-2007, 06:14 PM
This just in: Moments after Schaub signed a historic 20 year 2 billion dollar contract with the Texans the pen he used exploded severing is right arm...looking dazed he proclaimed that's ok I can still use my left only to see that arm fall to the floor as well...reminiscent of all the hopes and dreams of Texans fans everywhere.

football freak
03-21-2007, 06:23 PM
How can you say we are giving them away until you see Schaub play? Unless you can somehow see what the future is like and tell me Schaub is going to be a bust, you can't say it's a terrible trade. If Schaub becomes the QB the Texans think he can be (a good or very good QB), then it's not a bad deal. You take risks making trades.

you are right. we were smart not to give a 5th round pick for a veteran like Plummer and keep the 8th pick and both 2nd round picks. Schaub better play like four starters to make me accept that this is a good deal. Smells very strongly like Casserly all over again. The only positive is that we got rid of Carr. lesson learned: be careful what you wish for

Meisterman
03-21-2007, 06:24 PM
Yes they overpaid....but this is what happens when your coach doesn't properly evaluate his starting QB. The NFL looks at the Texans as a great place to steal draft picks. Same Song....Different Year!

thunderkyss
03-21-2007, 06:30 PM
From a neutral point of view, I'm not surprised at the price. I think the fact the Texans have managed to stay in the top ten and could yet get at least something back for Carr is also a consideration.


I hope he works out for you guys though, IMO, I think the Texans needed to go in a different direction and at least if he does work out, you should see the results pretty quickly. If the Texans had gone the route of trying to trade up for Quinn or Russell, it's a case of being patience again with a rookie and did you guys really want that?

You're pretty dadgumb smart for a Skins fan...

why don't you dump those losers, & stick with us??

TexansSB07
03-21-2007, 06:30 PM
as many people now know about the pending deal that is going to bring Schaub to the Texans, the question I have is was he over paid for. reports are saying the Texans are swapping the 8th pick for the 10th and giving Atlanta this years 2nd round pick and next years 2nd round pick

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6594578
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051


lets also look at the body of work Mr. Shaub has had thus far in the NFL, in 38 games he has started 2 losing both games, he has att 161 passes with 84 comp for a pct of 52.2 and for 1033 yds 6 tds and 6 ints giving schaub at rating of 69.2

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050


if the reports do end up being true, I have the bad feeling that the Texans over paid for Schaub, i understand the possible swapping of first round picks and even maybe one 2nd round pick, but the extra 2nd round pick to me shows the Texans were desperate, now i have no idea what other deals may be in the works either for Carr or trading down even further in the draft, but right now this kind of deal smells and looks kinda like a casserly type deal, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan



to answer your 1st question

NO!!!

to have tried to sign him would have cost our #8 AND a 3rd round pick, we move back 2 spaces and give up a 2nd round pick.


As to what Schaub has done gee he has been a backup with a QB who isn't Leftwich (meaning he hasn't played much). Ask youself 1 question Mr. Negative...how the heck much has a rookie player done in NFL who is drafted in 1st or 2nd round...easy answer for you...NOTHING.

So why extrapolate what he can or can't do and run around playing "Chicken Little"...ie the sky is falling we have made a deal and I don't like it (repeat this over and over as you run in circles, until you become winded and then forget about the deal and take a nap.

SHEESH deal is barely announced and everyone is re-arranging deck chairs on Titanic

edo783
03-21-2007, 06:33 PM
Did we pay too much.....heck yes. However, the total deal is only half over, we still need to move Carr to see what the final cost will be. Schaub's contract will almost certainly be a lot less than Carrs, so that will factor in and we will most likely be getting getting a pick or two for Carr (seeing a 4th from da Raiders thown around). Given that, we will wind up with a reasonable deal both from a direct cost and picks. Only fly in the ointment will be if Schaub screws the pooch on his play.

Andrew6
03-21-2007, 06:35 PM
the queston is not did we over pay, the question we need to ask now is what can we get from the raiders for Carr, might be able to get a nice 2nd or 3rd, or possibly 4th for the next 2 years, method behind this madness.

hollywood_texan
03-21-2007, 06:54 PM
These deals are separate and stand alone. You guys are analyzing this like Charlie Casserly.

The Texans could have dealt Carr, went with Sage to see what shakes out. They could really work on building a well rounded team.

Maybe the Schuab deal will pan out, but I see very little patience when it comes to the Texans when it matters most. Schuab is going to have to put this offense on his back, there are no excuses that Carr got.

They shouldn't have been so patient with Carr, and now they are trying to recover from that mistake too quickly.

Also, ask yourself if the Texans overpaid for Moulds last year...

Texian
03-21-2007, 06:54 PM
Rich McKay: Gary we want (2) 2nd RD picks for Schaub that is our asking price. That is what we put out to the newswires a week ago.

Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith: No Thanks Rich! Schaub's worth is swapping 1st RD picks and only (1) 2nd RD pick. For those (2) 2nd RDers we can move up and get Quinn or Peterson. IF you don't get a better offer call us back before the draft.

Rich McKay: Hey fellas before you go how about along with trading us the two twos we swap 1st RD draft picks?

Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith: Why didn't you day that the first time. Deal! How quick can we get Schaub's contract renogitated and him in here for a physical?

TexansFanatic
03-21-2007, 07:10 PM
This from Lance Zierlein's blog on the Chronicles website:

(4:25 PM) Reaction from one NFL source: "I can't believe what the Texans gave up. Is Carr that bad that they would give up a high 2nd and their 2nd next year for a guy who has hardly played? It looks like they are panicking. I know Atlanta's guys really like Schaub as a player but when you consider what they gave up and the contract that they will have to give him, this just seems like an awful lot. They can't afford to miss on this one. "

LINK (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2007/03/david_carr_situation_and_matt.html)

Mysteryhunt
03-21-2007, 07:15 PM
at least next year isnt guaranteed to be a total bust. because that's what we are looking at if we play carr or a rookie. this gives me hope that we might put up some W's next year, thank god. also, schaub is only 25!

CowboysTexansFan
03-21-2007, 07:16 PM
It's way too early to tell whether this is a good deal or not. Some people are noting Schaub's lack of game time during the regular season. That's a fair point, but it's not dispositive.

Look at how well Tony Romo played for the Cowboys this season after never having played in a single regular season game during his 3 year career. Still, he played well enough in preseason and practice to gain Parcells' confidence and made the most of his opportunity when he got it. Schaub has more game experience than Romo did before this past season. If Schaub plays as well as Romo did, this will turn out to have been a great trade.

Ole Miss Texan
03-21-2007, 07:21 PM
It seems to me that it is kind of a lot.

I'm not too worried about swapping first rd picks. I would really like to see us trade down our #10 overall to pick up a 2nd rounder. We could still get a guy like Darrelle Revis or Chris Houston, maybe reggie nelson, levi brown etc.

2 2nd round picks kinda gets me but i look at it this way to justify it. We didn't want to give up our 2nd and 3rd this year. 2nd this year fine. this year's 3rd rounder = next years 2nd. kind of....a dollar today is worth more than tomorrow. think of it as wait a year and i'll give you $1.50 if i can keep my $1 today.

2nd Round this year say we pick Drew Stanton to groom. Sage is our starter. Stanton doesn't start for who knows how long. so basically we traded a 2nd round pick next season for Schaub to start tomorrow and be our franchise QB that is better than stanton...and forgot about grooming a QB that might pan out or not.

of course we don't know if schaub is 100% going to be great...but our off. line is improving and he will have a better chance than carr.

jvaldez1984
03-21-2007, 07:36 PM
Could we still get Landry at the 10?
& I also think 2 2nd rounders is a bit too much, maybe a 2nd this year & a 3rd next year would be better.

aside from deangelo hall (who in my opinion is overrated (T.O. lit him up last season!!)) their secondary is in worse shape than ours. i dont see atl passing on landry now that they have the #8 pick. i say bring in a DT (amobi/branch)
to relieve mario from the double teams.

Cgold
03-21-2007, 07:41 PM
short answer....yes
long answer....yes

Erratic Assassin
03-21-2007, 07:59 PM
Hell yes we overpaid! We always do. This is unbelievable to me. I thought I heard the news wrong. I can't believe this. We finally got rid of Casserly and we're STILL overpaying!

What is our rush to get a QB this year anyway? Is that the one missing piece we need to make it to the Superbowl next season? This is short-sighted and desperate and it makes no sense whatsoever for a team like ours.

What is the thinking behind this? Tom Brady was a backup. Matt Schaub was a backup. Therefore Matt Schaub will be the next Tom Brady?

Gman84
03-21-2007, 08:01 PM
You're pretty dadgumb smart for a Skins fan...

why don't you dump those losers, & stick with us??

Thanks for the props but I'm ok with the Skins:winky:

Any team that doesn't like the Cowboys are ok with me though. Actually, I always had a soft spot for the Oilers, loved watching the run n' shoot and Warren Moon and Ray Childress are some of my favourite NFL players from back in the day.

NederlandTexan
03-21-2007, 08:13 PM
In terms of the draft value table, what did the Texans give up for Matt Schaub?

Texans 2nd round pick (#39) = 520 points
Point difference between the 8th (1400 points) and the 10th pick (1300 points) = 100 points (early 4th round)
2008 2nd round pick (generally considered the same as a '07 3rd) = 250 points

Matt Schaub = 520+100+250 = 850 points, or the 20th pick in the 1st round
Nice post...however, LOGIC doesn't visit the Texans MB very often. But if you like, Jump-to-Conclusions, Knee-Jerk, and Fly-Off-The-Handle do come by frequently.:)

Ryan
03-21-2007, 08:16 PM
putting schaub on the field is as much of a risk as putting in a brady quinn on the field, which is what alot of people(including me) wanted. What's the big problem?

DBCooper
03-21-2007, 08:28 PM
The Texans got the best quarterback available. They would have paid more for either of the 2 top draft prospects. 2 second rounders and down 2 spots in the first, gutsy move for a quarterback alot of teams wanted. And Sage lovers should know this indicates that he's not Kubiaks guy.

tex
03-21-2007, 08:28 PM
Duh,yes

Spled
03-21-2007, 08:37 PM
It may depend on what kind of pick we get for Carr. We have a lot of needs.

So Cal Texan
03-21-2007, 08:37 PM
Nice post...however, LOGIC doesn't visit the Texans MB very often. But if you like, Jump-to-Conclusions, Knee-Jerk, and Fly-Off-The-Handle do come by frequently.:)

Priceless!!!:ok:

AJ121
03-21-2007, 08:44 PM
Would you rather see David Carr on the field or Matt Schuab on the field? I would rather see schuab. If David was on the field this year all you people who are complaing we overpaid would be complainign about why we didnt pull the trigger on this deal

Pantherstang84
03-21-2007, 08:47 PM
Nice post...however, LOGIC doesn't visit the Texans MB very often. But if you like, Jump-to-Conclusions, Knee-Jerk, and Fly-Off-The-Handle do come by frequently.:)

I love it! :lol: :includeme:

Koolbrz
03-21-2007, 08:49 PM
as many people now know about the pending deal that is going to bring Schaub to the Texans, the question I have is was he over paid for. reports are saying the Texans are swapping the 8th pick for the 10th and giving Atlanta this years 2nd round pick and next years 2nd round pick

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6594578
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051


lets also look at the body of work Mr. Shaub has had thus far in the NFL, in 38 games he has started 2 losing both games, he has att 161 passes with 84 comp for a pct of 52.2 and for 1033 yds 6 tds and 6 ints giving schaub at rating of 69.2

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050


if the reports do end up being true, I have the bad feeling that the Texans over paid for Schaub, i understand the possible swapping of first round picks and even maybe one 2nd round pick, but the extra 2nd round pick to me shows the Texans were desperate, now i have no idea what other deals may be in the works either for Carr or trading down even further in the draft, but right now this kind of deal smells and looks kinda like a casserly type deal, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan


Here is a lil something i found on Atlanta's MB. Thougt i would share...


Houston..Dont worry! Schaub will be a huge upgrade,period. He is a complete QB and dont listen to this crap about his so called "weak arm". Get ready for some good things to happen . Kubiak is the perfect mentor for him. Good things will happen Guaranteed!!

Atlanta...Dumb move! You gave up the guy you should have been starting.For what!? 2 No.2's & a small move up in the 1st round. Things like this are why the Atlanta organization is in football's bottom tier and its not about to change. Pathetic!!

Pantherstang84
03-21-2007, 08:51 PM
Would you rather see David Carr on the field or Matt Schuab on the field? I would rather see schuab. If David was on the field this year all you people who are complaing we overpaid would be complainign about why we didnt pull the trigger on this deal

Please remind me of this when Addai runs over our defensive line next year.

Because I will be complaining about the DT we could have picked up in the 2nd.

3rd or a 4th for a backup QB but not two #2s.

Atlanta caught us desperate and bent us over. Only thing we can do is grin and bear it.

Koolbrz
03-21-2007, 08:55 PM
Please remind me of this when Addai runs over our defensive line next year.

Because I will be complaining about the DT we could have picked up in the 2nd.

3rd or a 4th for a backup QB but not two #2s.

Atlanta caught us desperate and bent us over. Only thing we can do is grin and bear it.

Our D-line played well towards the end of the season. Hopefully, they can pick up were they left off. If so, Indy will be looking at another loss hell maybe two.

AJ121
03-21-2007, 08:57 PM
Please remind me of this when Addai runs over our defensive line next year.

Because I will be complaining about the DT we could have picked up in the 2nd.

3rd or a 4th for a backup QB but not two #2s.

Atlanta caught us desperate and bent us over. Only thing we can do is grin and bear it.

I feel Schaub has the power to throw a couple of TD's against Indianapolis. One of the reasons our D line was terrible was because our offensive could not keep the ball, so our defense had to be on the filed ofr long stretches of time

BattleRedToro
03-21-2007, 08:59 PM
as many people now know about the pending deal that is going to bring Schaub to the Texans, the question I have is was he over paid for. reports are saying the Texans are swapping the 8th pick for the 10th and giving Atlanta this years 2nd round pick and next years 2nd round pick

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6594578
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051


lets also look at the body of work Mr. Shaub has had thus far in the NFL, in 38 games he has started 2 losing both games, he has att 161 passes with 84 comp for a pct of 52.2 and for 1033 yds 6 tds and 6 ints giving schaub at rating of 69.2

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050


if the reports do end up being true, I have the bad feeling that the Texans over paid for Schaub, i understand the possible swapping of first round picks and even maybe one 2nd round pick, but the extra 2nd round pick to me shows the Texans were desperate, now i have no idea what other deals may be in the works either for Carr or trading down even further in the draft, but right now this kind of deal smells and looks kinda like a casserly type deal, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan

I believe they did overpay for Schaub as well and I think this was as much a PR move as anything else and for that I have lost alot of respect for the people running the show, McNair, Smith, and Kubiak.

BattleRedToro
03-21-2007, 09:00 PM
Please remind me of this when Addai runs over our defensive line next year.

Because I will be complaining about the DT we could have picked up in the 2nd.

3rd or a 4th for a backup QB but not two #2s.

Atlanta caught us desperate and bent us over. Only thing we can do is grin and bear it.

The Philip Buchanon trade comes to mind, doesn't it?

WillyP
03-21-2007, 09:01 PM
Nice post...however, LOGIC doesn't visit the Texans MB very often. But if you like, Jump-to-Conclusions, Knee-Jerk, and Fly-Off-The-Handle do come by frequently.:)

I was going to post the exact same mathematical breakdown.

The idiots are spazzing out over the Texans giving away two second round picks, even though we just solved our MAJOR DILEMMA for the foreseeable future. Unbelievable.

Yes, Schaub could be Rob Johnson, but he could also be the next Brett Favre. Teams were interested in this kid for a reason. Even though he hasn't played much, I think most of you are greatly undervaluing his three years of NFL experience. Schaub can step right in and play because he's studied NFL defenses and practiced daily against NFL players. As Zierlein noted in his blog, there is actual NFL game film of this guy. Why does everybody assume the worst about him, but then assume that whomever we draft would be without risk?

WE GOT A QUARTERBACK! Finally. We didn't part with any first-round picks. We only moved back two spots, which puts us in a good position to draft a very good young player who can contribute right now.

Quit whining, people. This is a new beginning for the Houston Texans.

QB75
03-21-2007, 09:04 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4649552.html

Yes, we've over paid. I've heard all the hype over this guy the past couple of years, but what's he done to be worthy of 2 seconds round picks, and switching 1st? We could draft a just as proven QB this year, rather than give up this much. Schaub was a 3rd 4 years ago and hasn't played much at all. Atlanta only got a 2nd from GB for Farve. What makes this guy so speacial. He better show some stuff on the field real quick. I hope we get a 2nd from the Raiders for Carr, if we have to give up 2 2nd's for Schaub. This bothers me.:confused:

Only time will tell, and I hope Schaub works out.

Real quick? With this "fan base", that's for sure. Just for good measure, he'd better select a new number.

Honoring Earl 34
03-21-2007, 09:06 PM
Real quick? With this "fan base", that's for sure. Just for good measure, he'd better select a new number.

He gets three years ... then we'll see .

QB75
03-21-2007, 09:10 PM
He gets three years ... then we'll see .

That's not what the post implied. Sounded more like 3 series or 3 games!

Pantherstang84
03-21-2007, 09:10 PM
The Philip Buchanon trade comes to mind, doesn't it?

Ouch! Now the flashbacks are starting.

OzzO
03-21-2007, 09:22 PM
I think I'm on the fence for overpaying. I've heard the '08 pick may be conditional, but even if it's not....

We were going to draft a QB this year in the 2nd or 3rd correct? (Unless Quinn was there at #8 - which per this board, a majority didn't seem giddy about). So, we just got a "vet" in the 2nd round who's had time to watch on the sidelines at an NFL level.

then dropped two spots in this draft - nothing monumental, no major drop off between the positions in the draft.

So, I see it as giving up a 2nd next year, which apparently won't be strong in the QB crop, but moreso on RB selections. Maybe I'm too simplistic.

old football fan
03-21-2007, 09:32 PM
I think everybody is over reacting to the news. Let's see what he can produce on the field first before hanging the FO for this move. There is still, what, a month before the draft and I don't think the Texans are done wheeling and dealing. Let's just wait to see what happens.

Pantherstang84
03-21-2007, 09:38 PM
I think everybody is over reacting to the news. Let's see what he can produce on the field first before hanging the FO for this move. There is still, what, a month before the draft and I don't think the Texans are done wheeling and dealing. Let's just wait to see what happens.

Ok. Deal.

Mr. White
03-21-2007, 09:45 PM
Did the Texans over pay for Schaub ?

Depends on whether you're a Texan fan or a Carr fan.

If you're a Texan fan, then the jury's out. Most think that we'll have to give the guy at least a year before passing judgment. The last guy got 5.

If you're a Carr fan, then a 7th rounder would be overpaying since we could have used that 7th rounder on another O-Lineman who can protect Carr.

This day on the board isn't a whole lot different than the day Mario got signed. :crying:

PapaL
03-21-2007, 09:49 PM
Lets not forget the the drop from 8 to 10 also means a reduced salary hit for whomever is drafted.

Heath Shuler
03-21-2007, 10:12 PM
Did the Texans over pay for Schaub ?

Depends on whether you're a Texan fan or a Carr fan.

If you're a Texan fan, then the jury's out. Most think that we'll have to give the guy at least a year before passing judgment. The last guy got 5.

If you're a Carr fan, then a 7th rounder would be overpaying since we could have used that 7th rounder on another O-Lineman who can protect Carr.

This day on the board isn't a whole lot different than the day Mario got signed. :crying:
I agree.

We became a better team today. How much better remains to be seen.

BattleRedToro
03-21-2007, 10:15 PM
I agree.

We became a better team today. How much better remains to be seen.

Ok. I'll concede that the Texans became better today for the sake of arguement, but the question remains, at what cost?

Heath Shuler
03-21-2007, 10:59 PM
Ok. I'll concede that the Texans became better today for the sake of arguement, but the question remains, at what cost?

I think significantly better. If (and I know it is a big IF) we have found a QB to lead us to the playoffs in the next two seasons, I donít think the price will be high at all. I am hopeful we just picked up our franchise QB for years to come.

DocBar
03-21-2007, 11:05 PM
I think significantly better. If (and I know it is a big IF) we have found a QB to lead us to the playoffs in the next two seasons, I donít think the price will be high at all. I am hopeful we just picked up our franchise QB for years to come.
That's the big question...Which QB will we see? 4 TD's or 4 INT's?? I'm all for giving the guy a chance, but at first glance, the price looks to high to me. If we make the playoffs in '09 and he's our starting QB, good deal. If he proves to be less durable than Carr, then what?? Good deal??

Heath Shuler
03-21-2007, 11:15 PM
That's the big question...Which QB will we see? 4 TD's or 4 INT's?? I'm all for giving the guy a chance, but at first glance, the price looks to high to me. If we make the playoffs in '09 and he's our starting QB, good deal. If he proves to be less durable than Carr, then what?? Good deal??

Weíll see. But like I said earlier: Iím hopeful, and I donít remember the last time I felt this positive about the Texans.

keyser
03-21-2007, 11:29 PM
Yes, giving up the equivalent of a mid 1st rounder for an unproven 3-year backup whose stats aren't very impressive feels like we overpaid, to me. But, this trade does have to be considered in conjunction with any Carr trade.

It's now obvious that we have to get rid of Carr. The one thing that could make this trade a bit more palatable is if there is already a deal in place to trade Carr for a particularly good deal. But, we just reduced any trade value Carr might have had, since teams can just as easily wait for him to be released, if they want. If we don't already have some good deal in place (like, say, for Oakland's 2nd rounder next year), I think the net result is really going to hurt. If we end up just flat-out releasing Carr, the Schaub deal will seem like a disaster.

Of course if Schaub works out well enough it will all seem worth it. That's true of any trade. Determining whether we overpaid is a judgement of how much the player should be valued now, though. And, I personally don't see why he's worth the equivalent of a mid-1st. Plus, giving up multiple draft picks when we have so many holes to fill seems bad.

michaelm
03-21-2007, 11:45 PM
If it seems like you have read this before, it's because I also posted it in the main Schaub thread.


Cost of acquiring Schaub:

1) Swap #8 for #10 overall - This is a wash, pretty much, It may actually work in our favor if we get the same player two picks later and don't end up paying #8 money to a guy who is actually a #10 value. Levi Brown is an example, and now a good player to consider from a value perspective, and also as a value added pick to benefit our new QB.

2) 2007 2nd round pick - Schaub is better and more ready (IMO) than any QB we would have reasonably had a shot at in the second round. Also frees up our #8 pick for BPA instead of Quinn, who wouldn't be BPA (IMO) at that spot. Others will disagree on Quinn, and I respect that... that's just how I feel. I never was comfortable with the idea of BQ at #8.

3) 2008 2nd round pick - This is the luxury tax we paid ATL to train our 2007 starting QB for us the past three years. Schaub should (will) be our starting QB from snap #1 this year... no rookie QB in this draft class is as ready as he is to start an NFL game. We will not have to pay #8 money to a rookie QB to sit on our bench for a year or two.


* Hidden Value

1) No more Carr controversy.
2) Player confidence should be higher with Schaub than with Carr, who arguably lost his team mates this year.
3) The fans should be more optimistic, and excited on opening day, versus the same team with DC still at the helm. Ticket sales may increase? Ok, that might be a reach...
4) The collective creativity of this message board will increase now that other topics will be needed to replace the 10,000 Carr threads.

Napa Auto Parts
03-22-2007, 12:20 AM
i dont like loosing to 2nd rounders but anything to get the a looser like david carr out of here. when it comes to overpaying i dont think we gave up to much i rather give up to second rounders than give up one 1st rounder wich is what matty's value was according to the media and PK.

Wharton
03-22-2007, 12:28 AM
This would be the MOST STUPID move they could make.

We have a huge lack of talent and need every pick we can get. Here they go giving away picks.

I think I'll be wearing one of these this year :bag:Ok, I'm quoting myself. Weird, I know.

This was my gut reaction when I first heard the news. And, as I've thought about it more and heard/read the views from many of the folks on this message board, at work, and at the play tonight, I've started to lighten up about all of it.

Many of you have pointed out the following:

1. Swapping of picks from 8 to 10 is really no big loss, we still have a good pick.
2. The loss of the 2nd round pick is also, no big deal because we were going to pick a QB at some point in this draft and by the no. 8 pick both Russell and Quinn would probably be gone.
3. The loss of next years 2nd round pick is the real price of Schuab. This really isn’t a high price for a highly talented QB.

I can’t argue with any of these points, they are all valid.

Here's the rub I'm still unsettled about: Schuab really hasn't proven himself to be a starting QB. Lots of talent, lots of potential but never a starter. Well, don't we already have a player like that in Sage? So why do we need another one? If we had started the season with Sage at QB, used the no. 1 and no. 2 picks to improve the rest of the team, wouldn’t we be ahead in the long run?

Why couldn’t we have waited to make a move on a QB next year? By that time, we could have improved our line, our defense and our running game. Each would make it easier on our new QB. As it stands, we may end up beating the heck out of and ruining another QB.

I can’t say I’m all for this trade, but I am getting more comfortable with it. If it works, the FO will be full of geniuses; otherwise, they'll be goats.

It took great big brass ones to pull the trigger on this one.

TexasFight
03-22-2007, 12:39 AM
big brass ones or just retarded? my vote is retarded.

check out from past trades to see what 2 2nd rounders get you. texans overpaid for schaub.

2nd rounder and swap at best...that is only if you are desparate - meaning you are 1 player away from being a contender.

The Pencil Neck
03-22-2007, 12:45 AM
Real quick? With this "fan base", that's for sure. Just for good measure, he'd better select a new number.

Real quick? How about we give him 4-5 years, too? That's how long it took a lot of us to sour on Carr.

Napa Auto Parts
03-22-2007, 12:49 AM
Real quick? How about we give him 4-5 years, too? That's how long it took a lot of us to sour on Carr.



LMAO what are you talking about willis some people havent soured on carr yet.

The Pencil Neck
03-22-2007, 12:59 AM
Here's the rub I'm still unsettled about: Schuab really hasn't proven himself to be a starting QB. Lots of talent, lots of potential but never a starter. Well, don't we already have a player like that in Sage? So why do we need another one? If we had started the season with Sage at QB, used the no. 1 and no. 2 picks to improve the rest of the team, wouldnít we be ahead in the long run?

I would have been fine going into the season with Sage as my starting QB (IF Sage's hand has healed, and it hadn't healed by the Pro Bowl game, iirc. And that's kinda scary).

BUT... the whole "proven/unproven" thing doesn't phase me as an argument. There are plenty of examples of unproven QB's going to new locations and having great careers. And there are plenty of examples of a proven player not performing in the new location. This guy could end up being Scott Mitchell or Brett Favre. Or it could be a situation like Trent Green with the Rams: good player comes into a new place with a chance to play and then injures himself and his backup comes in and leads the team to a SB.

The important thing to me is that this FO is identifying problems and taking steps to make the team better. Not all the steps are going to end up being good and there are going to be some mistakes and bad calls. This may or may not be one of them. I hope it's the right move. It's a gutsy move. We've still got a long way to go before the season starts and I'm hopeful for next year.

The Pencil Neck
03-22-2007, 01:01 AM
LMAO what are you talking about willis some people havent soured on carr yet.

heh heh heh...

Point taken.

mikey21
03-22-2007, 01:35 AM
well if giving up two 2nd round picks and swapping first round picks wasn't enough, the Texans are set to give Schaub a fat contract even though he has yet to prove himeslf, according to the chronicle the terms of the deal will give Schaub a six-year contract worth $48 million, including $7 million guaranteed. He will make $20 million over the first three years.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4649552.html

ok i am now convinced the Texans are deperate and have indeed overpaid for an unproven quaterback, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan

TexanRoadrunner
03-22-2007, 03:23 AM
I was thinking about this since people say 2 2nd rounders and moving down 2 spots is too much for someone that hasn't proven anything yet.

So I'm going to look at this hypothetically as a rookie's perspective (since draft choices involved).

Let's assume Atlanta cuts Schaub and he is entered into the NFL draft this year. Where do you think he ends up getting drafted? IMO he goes no lower than the 10th-15th based on what you know (can step in and be starter learned NFL style for 3 years already).

So let's just say for all intents and purposes Houston would draft him with the 8th overall pick they still have b/c Quinn and Russell both gone.

8th overall pick = 1,400 points
dropping from 8th to 10th - 100 points, 39th pick 510 and 2008 pick - 580 (top of second at its highest value) =1190 points

It's essentially getting a rookie who you know can start right away and doesn 't have to go through NFL learning curves with what is technically a 13-17 round pick based on what we gave up (in draft value chart equivalency). Yet in this case we still keep our 10th pick to improve the pick. Just my 2 cents. :gotexans1

NederlandTexan
03-22-2007, 06:30 AM
well if giving up two 2nd round picks and swapping first round picks wasn't enough, the Texans are set to give Schaub a fat contract even though he has yet to prove himeslf, according to the chronicle the terms of the deal will give Schaub a six-year contract worth $48 million, including $7 million guaranteed. He will make $20 million over the first three years.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4649552.html

ok i am now convinced the Texans are deperate and have indeed overpaid for an unproven quaterback, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan

The $7 million is all that is guaranteed. He may or may not ever see a penny of the rest. If you will think back on other contracts you've seen in the media, you'll agree. Steve McNair's comes to mind. A "six-year contract worth $48 million, including $7 million guaranteed. He will make $20 million over the first three years", means he has the POTENTIAL to earn $48.

cbnjwill
03-22-2007, 06:41 AM
well of course we overpaid but it seems like we didnt have much choice carr had to go so it is what is. last yr. kubiak made a decision to back carr and not draft the hometown kid vince to be our qb for the next 10 yrs. i felt that the mario selection would hurt this franchise for many yrs. to come, but after this trade i see that drafting mario was an even bigger mistake than i orginally thought. it was one thing that we passed on mario for vince that was bad enough. but now just one yr. later after this franchise declared that carr was the guy to lead this team we have to give up two second picks to get a starting qb. last yrs draft was a huge mistake if we had took vince we would be keeping those second round picks with an outside shot of landing ap in the draft.. kubiak has only been here for one yr and he has already made the biggest personel mistake in the history of this franchise. its great he was ready to get rid of carr too bad it was one yr too late.

trublu
03-22-2007, 07:03 AM
well if giving up two 2nd round picks and swapping first round picks wasn't enough, the Texans are set to give Schaub a fat contract even though he has yet to prove himeslf, according to the chronicle the terms of the deal will give Schaub a six-year contract worth $48 million, including $7 million guaranteed. He will make $20 million over the first three years.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4649552.html

ok i am now convinced the Texans are deperate and have indeed overpaid for an unproven quaterback, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan

If the Texans had stood still 'til the draft and then made a move for Quinn or Russell ("If" available), how much would they have paid them... what have they proven in the NFL. If they had waited 'til the 3rd and drafted Staton or Kolb, how long would it take for them to be "game ready"...2 maybe three years; the 3 years Schaub has been in the league studying a West Coast Offence. He hasn't proven much but which of the draft picks has played against an NFL defence.

Schaub's stats may be misleading... He has only started 2 game and yes both for losses, but the rest of his playing time has been in situations where he comes in for a series or two because of a Vick injury, or when the team is so far behind that Schaub has to take undo risks to 1)show what he has in a game enviroment because he won't get many chances or 2)trying to make big plays to get back in the game.

I think Schaub is better than any of the Qbs in the draft, maybe not his physical attributes but in the only game I've seen him play in( against NE) he was very efficient and was making great decisions with good throws.

Either way I'm willing to hold judgement on whether we overpaid or not until at least half way through the season.

trublu
03-22-2007, 07:15 AM
it was one thing that we passed on mario for vince that was bad enough.

I think you mean "passed on Vince for Mario"

But either way it was Bush who was passed for Mario. Vince was never given strong consideration by the Texans. They only brought him in as a goodwill gesture to the city.

Get over the Vince love, it's over.

coachdent
03-22-2007, 07:19 AM
I was thinking about this since people say 2 2nd rounders and moving down 2 spots is too much for someone that hasn't proven anything yet.

So I'm going to look at this hypothetically as a rookie's perspective (since draft choices involved).

Let's assume Atlanta cuts Schaub and he is entered into the NFL draft this year. Where do you think he ends up getting drafted? IMO he goes no lower than the 10th-15th based on what you know (can step in and be starter learned NFL style for 3 years already).

So let's just say for all intents and purposes Houston would draft him with the 8th overall pick they still have b/c Quinn and Russell both gone.

8th overall pick = 1,400 points
dropping from 8th to 10th - 100 points, 39th pick 510 and 2008 pick - 580 (top of second at its highest value) =1190 points

It's essentially getting a rookie who you know can start right away and doesn 't have to go through NFL learning curves with what is technically a 13-17 round pick based on what we gave up (in draft value chart equivalency). Yet in this case we still keep our 10th pick to improve the pick. Just my 2 cents. :gotexans1

I appreciate the number crunching you've done and looking at those "draft values" are always good to put things into perspective. However, I think it rationalizes past some some significant problems.

This team is not one player away.
This team is not one quarterback away.
Matt Schaub, while "experienced" and not a rookie is hardly proven.
Matt Schaub... not our franchise quarterback.
The #2 pick last year was Def POY Demeco Ryans.
We pick at #10 and then do not pick again until #69. That's a lot of bodies.
We have not gotten rid of Carr yet. His value goes down significantly.
We already had Rosenfelds. (I'm not sold on him either, but he is serviceable)

Highly debateable if Schaub would have gone in the first round this year. That is a huge stretch. I know he was hurt in college, but he was ultimately drafted in the third round. I am not sure if sitting on the bench for three years, playing some preseason games, throwing 6 TDs and 6 INTs over that span elevates you to a first round pick, but I would say that it doesn't.

Trading down two slots makes good business sense because it should be cheaper. Word is, that we will trade even further down to save even more money.

Not having a second round pick this year and next year hurts us. I think the trade did not need to happen on March 21st. i don't think the Schaub sweepstakes was so competitive that we had to move on it so quickly and give up so much. Again, if we had gotten anything for Carr before that, I would have been happier. But I think anything we get now for Carr will be much less than what we would have gotten Match 20th. Even if it is a 6th instead of a 7th or whatever. The value of our asset dropped. And please, let's not go into the Carr bashing mode and say that he is completely worthless and we can't get anything for him and whatnot. Just focus on my point that the timing of the deal hurts us from a bargaining position with Carr.

cbnjwill
03-22-2007, 07:22 AM
yea i meant mario over vince, but its not a matter of having love for vine its about having the number one pick in the draft and not taking a qb then the next yr your in panic mode giving up two second round picks for schaub. last yrs move to draft was a bad personel move and kubiak should be called out for it. he goes from saying carr is his guy and we can win with carr to this move. im all for carr going but i cant see how anyone cant say its a yr late look what it cost us to bring in another qb

Ole Miss Texan
03-22-2007, 07:23 AM
The timing isn't good. I would hope there is a deal pretty much in place already. otherwise teams know we can't keep carr on the team..he's not getting paid that to be a back up. if we don't have any trade anywhere close to completed....we screwed ourselves on what pick we could get for carr...the other teams are def. in the driver seat and have the advantage.

BattleRedToro
03-22-2007, 07:45 AM
Real quick? How about we give him 4-5 years, too? That's how long it took a lot of us to sour on Carr.

Don't mistake being dissatisfied with the cost of the trade as dissatisfaction with the player acquired in the trade. The bottom line is I feel the Texans paid too much, regardless of how well he plays. In order to get a true measure of this trade we will have to wait until after all the picks are used to see what was available when they were made and compare the 3 best players available with those picks(#8, #39, and 2nd Rd in 2008) to Schaub and the best player available when the Texans pick #10 assuming they don't move again.

Titan "Tack" Fan
03-22-2007, 07:53 AM
2nd round picks are almost more valuable than 1st rounders. You get just as good a player (most the time) for less money. Plus they have less pressure on them to succeed. (DeMeco Ryans!)

Silver Oak
03-22-2007, 08:06 AM
for every DeMeco, there are guys who never pan out in the league at all.

why do people want to cast a bad light on this trade? I trust that our GM and HC looked at all possibilities before puling the trigger and saying yes.

jerek
03-22-2007, 09:12 AM
Time will tell if we overpaid. If Schaub goes on to become a multiple pro bowler then I think it is safe to say no, we didn't overpay. I am hesitant at this time simply because the cost seems excessive in light of the fact we don't have a lot of basis for making this decision given his very limited NFL action. So in that sense I believe yes, we have overpaid, but ...

I think Kubiak and Smith have proven themselves in their short tenure to be solid talent evaluators so I'll adopt a wait and see approach on this one.

U4ikrob
03-22-2007, 09:15 AM
IMO I feel like this is the Texans org right now - :joker:

and The Falcons just played the Texans bad :poker:

2 cents take - The Texans way overpaid - Is it just me or did the Falcons FO just spin a 3rd rnd backup QB into 2 extra 2nd rnd picks and the ability to swap first rounders up 2 spots.

Yea i'll say it - we got hosed bad on this deal and I cant believe we did it.
From what I read elsewhere nobody else was even close on this deal and we rushed it. So far this deal goes pretty much against everything Kubes & co said they were going to do this off-season. [ie not relying on unproven or unknown player status] Is it just me or did they just give away draft picks again. Talk about your C&C reruns :wheel:

This whole ordeal reminds me of the P-burnt and Babin trades and how they went down - wow those really worked out well eh? We mortgaged our franchise and gave draft picks awy for who again? :smirk: IMO the FO is on shaky ground now. Granted they have balls for making this change, but they truly gave up way way WAY too much for doing so. I understand they needed to make a move esp after last years draft - no offense to Mario, but the team made the wrong call. Now this year rolls around and they have had months to plan strategy and then pass on Garcia, Plummer, Huard, Ramsey and virtually any other QB out there and then in a desperation move before the draft they trade 3 picks and give a big bonus to yet another unproven pet project -this time a QB -give him the starting job just like last year and Sage is still riding the pine. Wow I guess Sage isnt all that when your looking at him as your starter eh Kubes? Like they said on the radio this morning - There is a reason Sage never got a chance to start anywhere else but in Houston. This whole ordeal smacks of Capers and Casserley again [ala Carr] and IMO feel this is more or less taking a step backwards in the team development. Im truly dissapointed in the FO about this pick. Sure I supported the team all along [still do] and I supported change at the QB spot, but IMO now the team seems to have gone back off the deep end again. I truly feel they are seriously overestimating Matt Shaubs impact on this franchise and hope he proves me wrong this year. IMHO am going to go on record & say this is the second biggest mistake Ive seen for the kubiak ran franchise so far. Kubes better hope Matty plays lights out the next 3 years or the lot of them may all be looking for new jobs.

Errant Hothy
03-22-2007, 09:17 AM
2nd round picks are almost more valuable than 1st rounders. You get just as good a player (most the time) for less money. Plus they have less pressure on them to succeed. (DeMeco Ryans!)

Really! Look at the Texans 2nr rounders and tell me who are as good as players from the first round:

Pitts
Gaffney
Hollings
Joppru
Babin
Ryans

I count 1 definite and 1 borderline, and I even included a player they traded back into the frist to get. Have there been good picks in teh second round...sure, but there have been more busts then All-Pros.

HOU-TEX
03-22-2007, 09:23 AM
for every DeMeco, there are guys who never pan out in the league at all.

why do people want to cast a bad light on this trade? I trust that our GM and HC looked at all possibilities before puling the trigger and saying yes.

I agree.

We probably did overpay, but take a look around the league people. Teams are overpaying everywhere. OG getting 49 mil. Thomas Jones traded for a 2nd rounder. Fullbacks getting stupid kind of money. I like the trade. We did what we had to do! There's still time to get some picks back too. Trading Carr might not end up in a #2, but we could get something for him. We could trade back on draft day and pick up a #2 or 3. So who knows? The folks that are having these knee jerk reactions need to relax.:)

Dr. Toro
03-22-2007, 09:27 AM
Don't care for it for the following reasons:

1. They got him without giving up a #1. A 2008 #2 isn't that big of a deal, time value, folks. At #10, you're still in position to grab a guy like Ginn, Landry, Okoye, Carriker, Brown, Adams etc. that could conceivably prove to be the best player in the draft. Plenty of talent in the top 15, no big drop off from #8 except for maybe Peterson.
2. Any time you acquire a player with high demand, you have to outbid "market value". This is the nature of the game.
3. Clearly, this player was handpicked by Kubiak, as opposed to guys in a UFA pool where you have limited options that are, in today's NFL, second/third tier players.
4. Given three, some limited fine performances, his good decision making, time in the league, and adequate physical tools, there's no reason to worry about his "inexperience". He deserves the benefit of the doubt.

humbleone
03-22-2007, 09:50 AM
In terms of the draft value table, what did the Texans give up for Matt Schaub?

Texans 2nd round pick (#39) = 520 points
Point difference between the 8th (1400 points) and the 10th pick (1300 points) = 100 points (early 4th round)
2008 2nd round pick (generally considered the same as a '07 3rd) = 250 points

Matt Schaub = 520+100+250 = 850 points, or the 20th pick in the 1st round

This is a quality post that brings something other than emotion to the discussion. However, in some ways this "masks" the value of what we gave up sort of like casino chips do in Vegas. It is weird how those green and black chips are easier to flip out there than the cash they equal is.

So, my point is that we did over pay IMO, and we will see the true value when Atlanta cashes in the chips for players (Landry or maybe even AP), and takes a great WR probably with our 2nd this year and lord knows who next year. Points don't seem to hurt as much as 2 net players do plus a better one at 8 vs. 10.

Bottomline, we have many holes to fill, if the FO thinks so much of Schaub, why not fix the line, fix RB, fix the #2 WR, fix the deep middle of our D with this draft and then get Schaub 12 months from now as a UFA?

This move is popular it would seem with the majority of the MB, or at least those that are posting, but it has significantly reduced my confidence in Smith and Kubiak.

Mr. White
03-22-2007, 09:54 AM
The Vikings overpayed when they traded for Herschel Walker.
The Saints overpayed when they traded for #2 in the draft (Ricky Williams.)

This is paying what the market bears.

michaelm
03-22-2007, 09:59 AM
All the Texans are doing is driving up the price another team will have to pay for Carr.

Rick Smith to Al Davis:
"Umm, Al... We're going to require at least a second for David Carr. I mean did you see what Atlanta got for Matt Schaub? Matt freaking Schaub!"

AL Davis:
"Man, I guess the cost of QBs has gone up a lot since my last moment of clarity in 1998. Just Win, Baby! ... Ummm, who is this again?"

michaelm
03-22-2007, 10:02 AM
9 other teams will not pass on Adrian Peterson. Give it up.

Fixed it for you. Just copy and paste!

humbleone
03-22-2007, 10:05 AM
The Vikings overpayed when they traded for Herschel Walker.
The Saints overpayed when they traded for #2 in the draft (Ricky Williams.)

This is paying what the market bears.

Yes, I agree that this is what Smith had to pay to get Schaub but that does not mean we didn't pay too much. A house in River Oaks might bear the market price of $6 Million but that does not make it smart to do. Especially when that same house 12 months from now would cost a ton less to get.

Mr. White
03-22-2007, 10:06 AM
Fixed it for you. Just copy and paste!

I don't think the first 2 teams are gonna pass on him now. I'm about to give up on having a signature altogether.

Mr. White
03-22-2007, 10:07 AM
Yes, I agree that this is what Smith had to pay to get Schaub but that does not mean we didn't pay too much. A house in River Oaks might bear the market price of $6 Million but that does not make it smart to do. Especially when that same house 12 months from now would cost a ton less to get.

Not if the house that you are currently in is a money pit.

michaelm
03-22-2007, 10:15 AM
Yes, I agree that this is what Smith had to pay to get Schaub but that does not mean we didn't pay too much. A house in River Oaks might bear the market price of $6 Million but that does not make it smart to do. Especially when that same house 12 months from now would cost a ton less to get.

What if that house was by far the best available at the moment? What if you had to live out in the rain and cold (David Carr) until you had a chance to get it cheap, then had to compete against half of the neighbors for the chance of living there?

Maybe it's worth it to pay the cost for that house now... hell, in September we might find out that it has a Hot Chicks Room and a built-in Laser Guided Flying Monkey Army that we didn't know about!
Man, you'd be stoked..!

So Cal Texan
03-22-2007, 10:27 AM
2nd round picks are almost more valuable than 1st rounders. You get just as good a player (most the time) for less money. Plus they have less pressure on them to succeed. (DeMeco Ryans!)

3rd round picks are almost more valuable than 2nd rounders. 4th round picks are almost more valuable than 3rd rounders. 5th round picks are almost more valuable than 4th rounders. 6th round picks are almost more valuable than 5th rounders. 7th round picks are almost more valuable than 6th rounders. 8th round picks are....what? There are no 8th round picks? Well, then... undrafted free agents are almost more valuable than....

humbleone
03-22-2007, 10:42 AM
Not if the house that you are currently in is a money pit.

The cost of Schaub in this analogy are the players we will not be able to draft so not taking this deal would not have created a worse scenario either in players or salary cap dollars if that is your point.

Actually, as I have searched for a plausible arguement for doing this deal, the only thing I can imagine is that Smith/Kubiak felt forced to pull the trigger on this deal as they thought someone else (Vikings, Oakland, Miami, Detroit) were going to give Atlanta what they were asking which made the "wait for him to become an UFA" move unworkable for them.

TexanAddict
03-22-2007, 11:00 AM
I'm going to answer "yes" to the thread title. Not unhappy with the acquisition of Schaub, per se, just a little apprehensive due to the cost. Here's hoping we can make up some ground by moving Carr and possibly moving back further in the 1st.

gtexan02
03-22-2007, 11:28 AM
Yesterday I received a text message from a good friend saying the Texans had traded their 2nd round choice in the draft for Matt Schaub. I was ecstatic.

Since that moment, my happiness with the move has consistently and drastically faded. So much so, that I am now terrified we are taking a gamble so risky we could be stuck in the basement for a very long time.

Before I delve into my reasons for disliking this trade let me first say this disclaimer: All of this is based on Schaub being unproven talent. If he turns out to be the real deal, I would have given up even more for him. I know a lot of people think QBs are overvalued, but just look at the bottom dwelling teams and you'll notice 1 thing: terrible QB play (the top 8 teams in the draft). And then look at the teams that instantly sky-rocketed in the past few years: Great QB Play (SD, NO)

Now then, here are my reasons for disliking this so much:

1. We mortgaged the farm.
We gave up 2 spots in the first round. Some may claim thats nothing. But thats making an excuse. Two picks can mean a lot. Being in the top 8 means you only need to find 8 players you want. Being in the top 10 means that someone you're targeting now has the potential of being gone. We could end up with a TJ situation all over again. That was only 2 picks difference as well. Plus 2 picks in the 1st can translate to a 3rd round pick. So whether or not you think thsoe 2 picks are a big deal, they do have value.

Secondly we gave up 2 2nd round selections. And high 2nd round selections. We picked 7th overall in the 2nd this year, and will most likely be in the top half of the draft next year as well. Those are valuable picks. We have an AMAZING amount of holes on this team. We need help at OL, we need a WR, we need DL help, LB help, secondary help like crazy. And to make matters worse, we have a lot of oft-injured and aging players on our team playing key roles. They won't be there forever. If there is one thing succesfful teams have proven, its that you build through the draft. 2nd round picks are almost always contributers. Especially early round picks. To think we potentially gave up a #2 WR and a starting C, or a #2 CB and a S, or any combination, is scary. We need depth. And we just lost it our best chance at obtaining it.

2. Schaub is unproven.
He is a LATE 3rd round talent that is highly sought after by scouts and FOs who believe he has potential. Im sorry, but the word potential shoudl be banned from Houston. How many times has potential come back to bight us in the ass? He has started 2 games, and lost both. He has great preseason stats. He does well coming off the bench. Sound familiar? We have someone with very similar statistics already on our team.

3. We are paying him 6 years, 48 million, 7 guaranteed, 20 mil in 1st 3 seasons
That is a lot of money for a team with potential cap issues. I like the contract because its front loaded, and if he doesnt work out, we can cut him with minimal cap penalties. But I hate the deal mostly because I bet he would have come here next year as an UFA with a deal like that. That is a proven starters salary. That is 1st round money.

Basically, I think we are giving up way too much, for someone with minimal experience, and paying him royally for it. I'm used to being the laughing stock of the league, but it still hurts that ATL and media are all pointing and laughing at the Texans again. We take risks taht don't pan out. If this works, I will retract all of this. I will be the first to admit i was wrong. But if it doesn't, I have a feeling this team will be at the bottom of the league for the next 5 years. And thats a risk I'm nto willing to take.

Double Barrel
03-22-2007, 11:33 AM
In Kubiak I Trust :texflag:

Don't worry, man. Shaub is an upgrade supported by our head coach. This is Kubiak's decision, unlike being forced to keep a starting QB to get the coaching gig.

Our current FO has shown a knack for finding players in FA, trades, and in lower rounds. We are only seeing part of the picture here, like the parable of blind men feeling an elephant. We only see part of it and do not know or understand the long term plans and bigger picture.

So you have to believe and trust. We're going to have our first winning season in 2007. Believe it! :redtowel:

HuttoKarl
03-22-2007, 11:37 AM
Yesterday I received a text message from a good friend saying the Texans had traded their 2nd round choice in the draft for Matt Schaub. I was ecstatic.

Since that moment, my happiness with the move has consistently and drastically faded. So much so, that I am now terrified we are taking a gamble so risky we could be stuck in the basement for a very long time.

Before I delve into my reasons for disliking this trade let me first say this disclaimer: All of this is based on Schaub being unproven talent. If he turns out to be the real deal, I would have given up even more for him. I know a lot of people think QBs are overvalued, but just look at the bottom dwelling teams and you'll notice 1 thing: terrible QB play (the top 8 teams in the draft). And then look at the teams that instantly sky-rocketed in the past few years: Great QB Play (SD, NO)

Now then, here are my reasons for disliking this so much:

1. We mortgaged the farm.
We gave up 2 spots in the first round. Some may claim thats nothing. But thats making an excuse. Two picks can mean a lot. Being in the top 8 means you only need to find 8 players you want. Being in the top 10 means that someone you're targeting now has the potential of being gone. We could end up with a TJ situation all over again. That was only 2 picks difference as well. Plus 2 picks in the 1st can translate to a 3rd round pick. So whether or not you think thsoe 2 picks are a big deal, they do have value.

Secondly we gave up 2 2nd round selections. And high 2nd round selections. We picked 7th overall in the 2nd this year, and will most likely be in the top half of the draft next year as well. Those are valuable picks. We have an AMAZING amount of holes on this team. We need help at OL, we need a WR, we need DL help, LB help, secondary help like crazy. And to make matters worse, we have a lot of oft-injured and aging players on our team playing key roles. They won't be there forever. If there is one thing succesfful teams have proven, its that you build through the draft. 2nd round picks are almost always contributers. Especially early round picks. To think we potentially gave up a #2 WR and a starting C, or a #2 CB and a S, or any combination, is scary. We need depth. And we just lost it our best chance at obtaining it.

2. Schaub is unproven.
He is a LATE 3rd round talent that is highly sought after by scouts and FOs who believe he has potential. Im sorry, but the word potential shoudl be banned from Houston. How many times has potential come back to bight us in the ass? He has started 2 games, and lost both. He has great preseason stats. He does well coming off the bench. Sound familiar? We have someone with very similar statistics already on our team.

3. We are paying him 6 years, 48 million, 7 guaranteed, 20 mil in 1st 3 seasons
That is a lot of money for a team with potential cap issues. I like the contract because its front loaded, and if he doesnt work out, we can cut him with minimal cap penalties. But I hate the deal mostly because I bet he would have come here next year as an UFA with a deal like that. That is a proven starters salary. That is 1st round money.

Basically, I think we are giving up way too much, for someone with minimal experience, and paying him royally for it. I'm used to being the laughing stock of the league, but it still hurts that ATL and media are all pointing and laughing at the Texans again. We take risks taht don't pan out. If this works, I will retract all of this. I will be the first to admit i was wrong. But if it doesn't, I have a feeling this team will be at the bottom of the league for the next 5 years. And thats a risk I'm nto willing to take.

1. the difference between 8 and 10 isn't going to hurt us this year. We can still expect to get the same players we were targeting at 8. Landry, Brown, Nelson, Okoye, etc. I'd prefer to trade down, recoup a pick and get someone like Chris Houston to fill a big hole we have.

2. Schaub is unproven, but Carr has proven that he isn't our answer.

3. 7 million dollars minimum isn't too expensive for a starting QB. Chances are he'll get the 20 million and then will be cut/released before getting the 10 million bonus in 2010, unless he shows us to be a great QB.

It's too early to worry about the second rounders. We've got pretty poor history of finding good second round picks anyway. There's still a chance of getting picks back as well. Keep the faith.

VICKTMS
03-22-2007, 12:11 PM
1. the difference between 8 and 10 isn't going to hurt us this year. We can still expect to get the same players we were targeting at 8. Landry, Brown, Nelson, Okoye, etc. I'd prefer to trade down, recoup a pick and get someone like Chris Houston to fill a big hole we have.

2. Schaub is unproven, but Carr has proven that he isn't our answer.

3. 7 million dollars minimum isn't too expensive for a starting QB. Chances are he'll get the 20 million and then will be cut/released before getting the 10 million bonus in 2010, unless he shows us to be a great QB.

It's too early to worry about the second rounders. We've got pretty poor history of finding good second round picks anyway. There's still a chance of getting picks back as well. Keep the faith.




HELL YEAH U OVERPAID for a qb who is 81 for 161 and 6tds with 6ints!!! THANKS FOR THE PICKS BABY!!!! We will now go get CALVIN JOHNSON!!!!! or Joe Thomas or whoever we want mang!!!!

FALCONS 34 TEXANS 13

texansturningthecorner
03-22-2007, 01:37 PM
In all honesty the trade is not all that bad people the 10 spot is sought after by 22 other teams and that is alot of options. I have no doubt that rick smith will go after a trade back to regain the secont pick, which would only have us giving a 2nd rounder for next year for Matt. The draft will probably go somwhat like this we take fs or cb with the first pick and wr with the second, whatever we get for david if anything will probably be a later round pick any way so we shore up the d line and o line 3rd rounds on.

this is what I see happening i would like to see who you guys think we will get if it were to transpier like this.

1st choice) i say we trade back couple spots pick up either hall or nelson ( if landry gone)

2nd choice) or we take a bigger step back and take houston and try and get two exra picks to try and get weddle or meriwither for round two along with the reciever.

if i spelled anything wrong please i think everyone can figure out who i am talking about or what i am saying.

:lightbulb:

phantom17
03-22-2007, 01:44 PM
Oh well, we shall see if this is a good thing for the Texans, or I will start to see "fire Kubiak & his Tonto, Smith", or" Mcnair is a crappy owner", or "Shaub=Carr Part2" threads! Man, this would be one of my worst nightmares! The natives gets really restless here & can turn into a lynch mob very fast!:joker:

michaelm
03-22-2007, 01:49 PM
The natives gets really restless here & can turn into a lynch mob very fast!:joker:

Ah, they're harmless... just call 'em names and laugh at 'em... it works for me.

Gamehorn25
03-22-2007, 01:56 PM
Oh well, we shall see if this is a good thing for the Texans, or I will start to see "fire Kubiak & his Tonto, Smith", or" Mcnair is a crappy owner", or "Shaub=Carr Part2" threads! Man, this would be one of my worst nightmares! The natives gets really restless here & can turn into a lynch mob very fast!:joker:

How long would that be 1 interception and a loss, or after 1 season.

Iowahorse
03-22-2007, 02:04 PM
I can tell you us Falcons fans are happy as hell with this trade. You guys will like Schaub (You'd better for what you gave us for him) IF you get an O-line that will finally learn to protect it's QB. If you don't, you'll have your next Carr. I don't care who you are as a QB, you can't lead yer team to victory if you are flattened like roadkill every third snap. Irregardless, you got a good QB in this trade.

The Pencil Neck
03-22-2007, 02:10 PM
I can tell you us Falcons fans are happy as hell with this trade. You guys will like Schaub (You'd better for what you gave us for him) IF you get an O-line that will finally learn to protect it's QB. If you don't, you'll have your next Carr. I don't care who you are as a QB, you can't lead yer team to victory if you are flattened like roadkill every third snap. Irregardless, you got a good QB in this trade.

You're making the assumption that all those sacks were our line's fault. Many of us are of the opinion that Carr is like Rob Johnson, a supposedly mobile QB who ends up sacking himself because of indecision and bad pocket presence. NOW we're going to see if we were right or wrong in that assessment.

Iowahorse
03-22-2007, 02:16 PM
You're making the assumption that all those sacks were our line's fault. Many of us are of the opinion that Carr is like Rob Johnson, a supposedly mobile QB who ends up sacking himself because of indecision and bad pocket presence. NOW we're going to see if we were right or wrong in that assessment.

Sure will. I like Schaub, and would have been happy keeping him around. BUT, he's not much of a scrambler or runner. But he has good pocket awareness and makes his reads and checkdowns well, and is accurate when given proper time. But he's not going to be able to make people miss sacking him a lot. Don't get me wrong, he CAN do some moving if he has to, it's just not his thing, he's not all that great at it. But I have seen him take off and run when flushed out before, to try and make a play.

texansturningthecorner
03-22-2007, 02:20 PM
Sure will. I like Schaub, and would have been happy keeping him around. BUT, he's not much of a scrambler or runner. But he has good pocket awareness and makes his reads and checkdowns well, and is accurate when given proper time. But he's not going to be able to make people miss sacking him a lot. Don't get me wrong, he CAN do some moving if he has to, it's just not his thing, he's not all that great at it. But I have seen him take off and run when flushed out before, to try and make a play.

hopefully he wont have to scramble around to much we have made some moves to shore up the o line and Kubes has already told matt he would make sure he would get his protection

gtexan02
03-22-2007, 02:21 PM
In Kubiak I Trust :texflag:

Don't worry, man. Shaub is an upgrade supported by our head coach. This is Kubiak's decision, unlike being forced to keep a starting QB to get the coaching gig.

Our current FO has shown a knack for finding players in FA, trades, and in lower rounds. We are only seeing part of the picture here, like the parable of blind men feeling an elephant. We only see part of it and do not know or understand the long term plans and bigger picture.

So you have to believe and trust. We're going to have our first winning season in 2007. Believe it! :redtowel:


I would trust Kubiak way more if he didn't blow the DC situation last year so badly. Whether or not he knew what he was doing, he put his seal of approval on the Carr extension and that was a big red mark in my book

MATRIX
03-22-2007, 02:23 PM
You're making the assumption that all those sacks were our line's fault. Many of us are of the opinion that Carr is like Rob Johnson, a supposedly mobile QB who ends up sacking himself because of indecision and bad pocket presence. NOW we're going to see if we were right or wrong in that assessment.


50-50

Carr did hold the ball too long at times.

But, the O line was horrific the 1st 3 years, and didn't really start to improve that much till last year. So after 3 yrs of hits and then only a semi-line that works. It is clear that Carr was shell shocked.

Exithios
03-22-2007, 02:23 PM
hopefully he wont have to scramble around to much we have made some moves to shore up the o line and Kubes has already told matt he would make sure he would get his protection

And if what Ahman says about his defensive reads and blitz pick-ups rings true then that will be a bonus that Carr never had the luxury of, Added protection coming from the backfield.

texansturningthecorner
03-22-2007, 02:25 PM
And if what Ahman says about his defensive reads and blitz pick-ups rings true then that will be a bonus that Carr never had the luxury of, Added protection coming from the backfield.

exactly in the press conference matt seemed giddy about green telling him how much he liked to hit blitzers:yahoo:

Cupps
03-22-2007, 02:29 PM
Speaing of our offensive line... between the guys we've brought in and drafted the past few seasons (Hodgdon, Flanagan, Winston, Spencer) and Black and hopefully a first-day pick (Levi Brown?)... our offensive line has to start been at least passable... doesn't it?

I mean... I feel like we've started trying to make moves to weed out that awful initial line we had and get a half decent one. And, naive like I am, I'd like to think that will Green, AJ, Daniels and at least a little time in the pockey Schaub should produce.

phantom17
03-22-2007, 02:58 PM
How long would that be 1 interception and a loss, or after 1 season.

Who knows? As you may know the fans here can turn fairly quickly! I hope everyone gives Matt some time to adjust. I personally like this QB, but not @ a high price for a team that has a lot of needs. I wish him the best & will support him 100% like all the players on the team! I guess I'm just annoyed that this organization tends to get desperate & overpays! It's no secret that other GMs knows this!:poker: :joker: :elmo: Anyway, I can't wait till draft day, & I'm not scheduled to work that weekend....finally.

srstex
03-22-2007, 03:02 PM
Sportsline-Prisco on NFL posted a story/opinion that the Texans went for something new. After reading his opinion I found that the things I have been writing about for the last year were echoed by a sprorts writer-which makes me think I might be wrong. But I like the article and I think wheather you like the trade or not you should read it.

phantom17
03-22-2007, 03:06 PM
Ah, they're harmless... just call 'em names and laugh at 'em... it works for me.

LOL!:) I know. That's what makes this board fun!:joker:

Schaub_to AJ_YES!
03-22-2007, 03:38 PM
This trade is FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!

Double Barrel
03-22-2007, 03:39 PM
I would trust Kubiak way more if he didn't blow the DC situation last year so badly. Whether or not he knew what he was doing, he put his seal of approval on the Carr extension and that was a big red mark in my book

I think the owner made a conditional hire in Kubiak. The condition was that David Carr would be the Texans starting QB in 2006. For whatever reason(s), McNair had a loyalty to Carr that had to be respected and honored by any head coaching candidate.

Kubiak put his 'seal of approval' on it simply because what else was he going to do? Tell the media, fans, and team that he has to start a QB that he doesn't believe in?

Now that Kubiak is firmly entrenched as HC, and has a full season of evaluation on Carr, he exerted his power accordingly. If Kubiak had kept Carr in 2007, then I think your point would have more merit. But obviously, that does not appear to be the case.

TexansCM
03-22-2007, 06:32 PM
www.profootballtalk.com (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm) broke down the trade like this.

DID TEXANS GIVE UP TOO MUCH FOR SCHAUB?

In addition to forking over a six-year, $48 million contract to a guy who has never been a starting quarterback, the Houston Texans coughed up some major draft-day value for Matt Schaub.

Under the trade chart developed by FOX's Jimmy Johnson in the 1990s, the swap of first-round picks (No. 8 for No. 10) cost Houston 100 points. And the second-round pick (39th overall) is worth another 510 points.

The second-round pick in 2008 will be worth anywhere from 270 points to 580 points.

So the total draft points that the Texans surrendered for Schaub will range from 880 (if Houston wins Super Bowl XLII) to 1190 (if Houston is the worst team in the league in 2007).

Thus, the Texans essentially gave up a first-round pick, falling anywhere from No. 13 to No. 19 overall.

Was it too much to sacrifice? On one hand, they could have had Schaub for nothing in 2008 -- but they would have had to outbid other teams for his rights. On the other hand, is a mid-level first-round pick a fair sacrifice for a guy who has shown in spot duty that he can play at the NFL level?

Probably so, in light of the fact that it's a 50-50 proposition (at best) that a quarterback is going to work out when drafted in round one.

Of course, none of this changes the reality that the Texans could have, and should have, figured out that Carr wasn't the guy a year ago, at a time when they could have dangled the No. 1 overall pick and then slid back a few spots and draft Vince Young or Matt Leinart.

We've got a feeling that the folks in Houston won't be forgetting about that missed opportunity unless and until Matt Schaub is hoisting a Lombardi.

Navy_Chris
03-22-2007, 06:35 PM
www.profootballtalk.com (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm) broke down the trade like this.

DID TEXANS GIVE UP TOO MUCH FOR SCHAUB?

In addition to forking over a six-year, $48 million contract to a guy who has never been a starting quarterback, the Houston Texans coughed up some major draft-day value for Matt Schaub.

Under the trade chart developed by FOX's Jimmy Johnson in the 1990s, the swap of first-round picks (No. 8 for No. 10) cost Houston 100 points. And the second-round pick (39th overall) is worth another 510 points.

The second-round pick in 2008 will be worth anywhere from 270 points to 580 points.

So the total draft points that the Texans surrendered for Schaub will range from 880 (if Houston wins Super Bowl XLII) to 1190 (if Houston is the worst team in the league in 2007).

Thus, the Texans essentially gave up a first-round pick, falling anywhere from No. 13 to No. 19 overall.

Was it too much to sacrifice? On one hand, they could have had Schaub for nothing in 2008 -- but they would have had to outbid other teams for his rights. On the other hand, is a mid-level first-round pick a fair sacrifice for a guy who has shown in spot duty that he can play at the NFL level?

Probably so, in light of the fact that it's a 50-50 proposition (at best) that a quarterback is going to work out when drafted in round one.

Of course, none of this changes the reality that the Texans could have, and should have, figured out that Carr wasn't the guy a year ago, at a time when they could have dangled the No. 1 overall pick and then slid back a few spots and draft Vince Young or Matt Leinart.

We've got a feeling that the folks in Houston won't be forgetting about that missed opportunity unless and until Matt Schaub is hoisting a Lombardi.

The short and sweet answer. NO. But only time will tell my friend. They had to right the ship and own up to screwing up last year in the 1st round. This was the best option they had and they didn't hesitate. I think it's a good deal.

texas mopar
03-22-2007, 09:38 PM
www.profootballtalk.com (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm) broke down the trade like this.

DID TEXANS GIVE UP TOO MUCH FOR SCHAUB?

In addition to forking over a six-year, $48 million contract to a guy who has never been a starting quarterback, the Houston Texans coughed up some major draft-day value for Matt Schaub.

Under the trade chart developed by FOX's Jimmy Johnson in the 1990s, the swap of first-round picks (No. 8 for No. 10) cost Houston 100 points. And the second-round pick (39th overall) is worth another 510 points.

The second-round pick in 2008 will be worth anywhere from 270 points to 580 points.

So the total draft points that the Texans surrendered for Schaub will range from 880 (if Houston wins Super Bowl XLII) to 1190 (if Houston is the worst team in the league in 2007).

Thus, the Texans essentially gave up a first-round pick, falling anywhere from No. 13 to No. 19 overall.

Was it too much to sacrifice? On one hand, they could have had Schaub for nothing in 2008 -- but they would have had to outbid other teams for his rights. On the other hand, is a mid-level first-round pick a fair sacrifice for a guy who has shown in spot duty that he can play at the NFL level?

Probably so, in light of the fact that it's a 50-50 proposition (at best) that a quarterback is going to work out when drafted in round one.

Of course, none of this changes the reality that the Texans could have, and should have, figured out that Carr wasn't the guy a year ago, at a time when they could have dangled the No. 1 overall pick and then slid back a few spots and draft Vince Young or Matt Leinart.

We've got a feeling that the folks in Houston won't be forgetting about that missed opportunity unless and until Matt Schaub is hoisting a Lombardi.

Yea, 1 year and all those draft picks could have made a huge diff. for this team IMO. They should have let Sage or DC start next year and drafted wisely, my fear is we will look back some day at these picks and wonder what could have been . I think they caved to pressure from fans and to me that shows weakness, not the leadership I was hoping fore. I really don't think we were or are going to the SB next year so we should have patient one more year. Thats my 2 cents worth.The bottom line is whats done is done I hope we can make some real strides with whats left of our draft.we gave up to much!!!

thunderkyss
03-22-2007, 09:56 PM
But he's not going to be able to make people miss sacking him a lot. Don't get me wrong, he CAN do some moving if he has to, it's just not his thing, he's not all that great at it. But I have seen him take off and run when flushed out before, to try and make a play.


That's OK. Most of your better QBs have the same problem. They find ways to deal with it.

So, who you got yer eye on with that #8 overall??


EDIT:It would be so cool, if your sig was a link to someplace.

Lucky
03-22-2007, 11:34 PM
Here's is a breakdown of the Schaub deal by a "NFL insider" from Lance Zierlein's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2007/03/david_carr_situation_and_matt.html) in the Chronic:

Opinion of the trade by an NFL insider: "The Texans could have traded back to 20 or so and picked up a 2nd and 3rd or 4th, signed Schaub to an offer sheet with a poison pill and traded the late first and third to get Schaub (rather than go through the actual RFA process which may have lead to an arbitration hearing about the poison pill). Then you've still got your second and an extra second or third. You could have easily traded with the Bears or Patriots and had an even later first rounder to deal. I like Rick Smith, but this shows a lot of inexperience and panic and I like Schaub a lot. Think about this - Seattle flip flopped first round picks with Green Bay (Green Bay got 10 and gave Seattle 17) and Seattle also gave up their third round pick while Green Bay gave them a 7th. Same type of player in that he had played some, but not really that much. So Seattle gets Hasselbeck and gives up a 3rd and 7 spots in the first round. The Texans give up two seconds and give up 2 spots in the first and they don't get anything coming back from Atlanta in terms of draft picks. "That's a pretty stinging analysis. I'd say a couple of things in Smith's defense. One, we don't know if there were other teams looking to make a deal for Schaub. I could see Oakland, Minnesota, and Cleveland having possible interest. This may have been the deal it took to take those teams out of the picture. Two, the Texans may actually have a deal on the table for David Carr, but didn't want to pull the trigger until Schaub was locked in.

I'm not totally discounting what this guy says. I remember the Falcons making a lot of moves prior to dealing for John Abraham last season. Just that there may have been extenuating circumstances that forced the Texans to move on Schaub sooner rather than later.

Bongo59
03-22-2007, 11:42 PM
i have said this all day.............Rick Smith is an ***** giving up the farm for Schaub. Crazy value for the Falcons. This deal will make or break your decade. And I dont think its gonna be praised..............WOW This team continues to screw up in the FO now over two regimes................Bob McNAir must be asleep at the wheel

Titan "Tack" Fan
03-22-2007, 11:45 PM
To answer the question of the title of this thread:

Yes

Lucky
03-22-2007, 11:47 PM
Great. You can't even have an honest discussion of the deal without a couple of Possum Hollow trolls chirping in. Thanks for your valuable contributions.

Hey, isn't it y'alls turn to keep an eye on Pacman?

Titan "Tack" Fan
03-22-2007, 11:49 PM
Great. You can't even have an honest discussion of the deal without a couple of Possum Hollow trolls chirping in. Thanks for your valuable contributions.

Yeah, I just come on here to troll. You got me figured out.

infantrycak
03-23-2007, 12:07 AM
Yeah, I just come on here to troll. You got me figured out.

Seriously, if you and Bongo don't figure out how to add some valuable football discussion rather than just take anti-Texan viewpoints, you are out of here.

edo783
03-23-2007, 12:45 AM
Seriously, if you and Bongo don't figure out how to add some valuable football discussion rather than just take anti-Texan viewpoints, you are out of here.

Good for you Cak...about time someone brought them to the curb.

Procuna
03-23-2007, 02:20 AM
As of now.....NO!

I really have not been this excited since the first 2 seasons.

Now who will be our backup?

:yahoo:

We're giving them WHAT?!!?!?!?!?

Texans fans got again screwed big time.I Think its hilarious a 3 rd round pick 3 years ago who started 2-games for 2-second picks and moved up first round . Thats an incredible trade. Pocuna

coachdent
03-23-2007, 07:12 AM
The Vikings overpayed when they traded for Herschel Walker.
The Saints overpayed when they traded for #2 in the draft (Ricky Williams.)

This is paying what the market bears.

How did those deals work out for those teams? Most teams don't go to that market. They stay home. My wife goes to the store and says, "look honey! I saved $150 today!" Then I get a bill the next month on my credit card for $3,000. Gee that's great you "saved" that money honey...we're broke!

P.S. I didn't have enough money at the end of the month to pick up that free agent lawn tractor I wanted so desperately. My car still needs the brakes fixed. The roof is leaking. The bathrooms need to be painted and the walls fixed. But hey...we SAVED $150!

CVTexan
03-23-2007, 08:37 AM
I have to feel like the one thing that is getting lost in discussing all the draft picks given up is the cap money that we have freed up for next year. If we can sign some young free agents next year, who will contribute, then the loss of that second 2nd round pick doesn't hurt so bad. Is there anyone out there who can give a projected cap figure for next year which will include the Schaub signing?

humbleone
03-23-2007, 08:55 AM
How did those deals work out for those teams? Most teams don't go to that market. They stay home. My wife goes to the store and says, "look honey! I saved $150 today!" Then I get a bill the next month on my credit card for $3,000. Gee that's great you "saved" that money honey...we're broke!

P.S. I didn't have enough money at the end of the month to pick up that free agent lawn tractor I wanted so desperately. My car still needs the brakes fixed. The roof is leaking. The bathrooms need to be painted and the walls fixed. But hey...we SAVED $150!

Well said! Frankly, this move looks like one born out of desperation...don't want another year with Carr or Sage taking the snaps, can't trade DC, can't get Garcia, Ramsey, Plummer...ok we will literally give the farm away to get Schuab. People can spin this all they want and I know it is popular on the MB to be positive and optimistic about this trade but in less than one month people will not be as happy as they are today because the cost of this deal will be smacking everyone in the face.

And, you can tell by Smith's comments he knows how bad the value of the deal looks. The moves that would have been consistent with his statements and previous directional leadership would have been to (1) target Schaub as your QB in 12 months when he would have been a UFA. (2) get the team as strong as possible for him to join by drafting OL, a quality #2 WR with probably our 2nd round this year, and getting probably the best defensive player in the draft to plug the middle of our defense (Landry) thereby helping the new QB to have a few more posessions. (3) Kept Carr until the draft or later thereby putting more pressure than we have now on teams that are interested in him to give us something of value for him

Rightnow
03-23-2007, 09:19 AM
Well said! Frankly, this move looks like one born out of desperation...don't want another year with Carr or Sage taking the snaps, can't trade DC, can't get Garcia, Ramsey, Plummer...ok we will literally give the farm away to get Schuab. People can spin this all they want and I know it is popular on the MB to be positive and optimistic about this trade but in less than one month people will not be as happy as they are today because the cost of this deal will be smacking everyone in the face.


This was a desperation move by Smith and Kubiak to hold on to their jobs. If they had put in Sage and wanted to develop a second rounder it would take three more years of a losing record. Kubiak realizes that he has to start winning now in order to put some fans back in the stands because at the end of the day they play to make money.

If Schaub is a bust (we go 4-12 this year) then Kubiak's and Smith's judgment will be totally suspect for passing up VY and giving away the to much for a backup. If Schaub is a bust, we probably won't have a winning record before the end of the decade.

Their entire regime has gambled their jobs here in Houston on Matt Schaub. That is why they gave so much, that is why Smith panicked, that is why the fans are suspect of this deal. The Texans owe the newspaper and radio stations big for the amount of spin they put on this deal. Everyone outside of Houston knows we overpaid and are desperate. Everyone knows the o-line is still a huge problem.

I sure hope Kubiak and Smith win on their gamble. I'm sick of this team losing and giving away draft picks.

GO TEXANS!

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2007, 09:23 AM
And, you can tell by Smith's comments he knows how bad the value of the deal looks. The moves that would have been consistent with his statements and previous directional leadership would have been to (1) target Schaub as your QB in 12 months when he would have been a UFA. (2) get the team as strong as possible for him to join by drafting OL, a quality #2 WR with probably our 2nd round this year, and getting probably the best defensive player in the draft to plug the middle of our defense (Landry) thereby helping the new QB to have a few more posessions. (3) Kept Carr until the draft or later thereby putting more pressure than we have now on teams that are interested in him to give us something of value for him


The key is Schaub could play in the WCO today .

He has been in the NFL for three years ... he's knows what it takes to play .

I think he has a much better chance of panning out than a rookie .... so there's less risk .

We are now in a position to pick the BPA in the draft .

HOU-TEX
03-23-2007, 09:29 AM
The key is Schaub could play in the WCO today .

He has been in the NFL for three years ... he's knows what it takes to play .

I think he has a much better chance of panning out than a rookie .... so there's less risk .

We are now in a position to pick the BPA in the draft .

I agree. Here's to opening the playbook 100% this year.:beer:

michaelm
03-23-2007, 10:44 AM
but in less than one month people will not be as happy as they are today because the cost of this deal will be smacking everyone in the face.


In my case, personnaly, this is inorrect.
There is no way I will hve enough information to change my opinion of this trade until at least half way through the season, but more than likely after the season. I'm happy about the trade at the moment, and only Schuab having a terrible season will chnge my mind.
Bottom line, if Schaub becomes even a slightly better than verage QB, I'm good with this trade.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2007, 10:52 AM
Here's another way to look at it .


1. Landry FS

2. Schaub QB

3. Higgins WR

4 . Wilson CB

humbleone
03-23-2007, 11:01 AM
In my case, personnaly, this is inorrect.
There is no way I will hve enough information to change my opinion of this trade until at least half way through the season, but more than likely after the season. I'm happy about the trade at the moment, and only Schuab having a terrible season will chnge my mind.
Bottom line, if Schaub becomes even a slightly better than verage QB, I'm good with this trade.

Ok, fair enough, although I disagree with the position that this trade was worth it if Schaub plays well, I respect it. IMO, the difference between BPA at 10 vs. 8 and who is on the board when Altlanta uses our pick in the 2nd is really going to make some out there understand why some of us are really disappointed with this move. I acutally hope and expect Schaub to play well but that will not change my opinion of the cost to the team.

And, btw, if Smith and Kubiak were so sold on paying this kind of a price for Schaub (which they could have had anytime during FA) why were they trying to get something done with Plummer, Garcia and Ramsey?

It would appear that the cold hearted unvarnised truth about this deal is that Smith/Kubiak gave into a moment of desperation. There are other NFL teams that need a QB as badly (or yes even worse) than we did...why didn't they give the Falcons this deal?

humbleone
03-23-2007, 11:04 AM
Here's another way to look at it .


1. Landry FS

2. Schaub QB

3. Higgins WR

4 . Wilson CB

I will be happy to bet you sir that Landry is not there at 10.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2007, 11:07 AM
I will be happy to bet you sir that Landry is not there at 10.

OK ... put the player you want ... it was an example .

Double Barrel
03-23-2007, 11:09 AM
The off-season hasn't even reached a critical stage, yet - the NFL draft - and people are already calling out our FO as "desperate" and "giving away the farm".

I think some folks are prone to hyperbole and frantic hand-wringing. They make a pill for that condition. Take a deep breath. Relax. It'll be alright.

You can't fix four years of stupid overnight. Have some confidence in our new regime. They've barely been here a year. :howdy:

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2007, 11:12 AM
The off-season hasn't even reached a critical stage, yet - the NFL draft - and people are already calling out our FO as "desperate" and "giving away the farm".

I think some folks are prone to hyperbole and frantic hand-wringing. They make a pill for that condition. Take a deep breath. Relax. It'll be alright.

You can't fix four years of stupid overnight. Have some confidence in our new regime. They've barely been here a year. :howdy:

I think that some people don't understand the cost and the value of an above average to elite QB .

Would anyone give two 2nds for Big Ben ( I'm not trying his last name ) ?

Maybe Schaub is as good ... who knows .

Vinny
03-23-2007, 11:12 AM
The off-season hasn't even reached a critical stage, yet - the NFL draft - and people are already calling out our FO as "desperate" and "giving away the farm".

I think some folks are prone to hyperbole and frantic hand-wringing. They make a pill for that condition. Take a deep breath. Relax. It'll be alright.

You can't fix four years of stupid overnight. Have some confidence in our new regime. They've barely been here a year. :howdy:

The most amazing thing to me is we can all see that our FO has gone WAY out of its way to replace Carr. They talked to Jake Plummer, Garcia, Trent Green and finally landed Schaub and not once have they tried to replace our linemen....so that SHOULD tell everyone that Carr was the biggest problem on this team...not the line. But yet everyone still crys about the line when in fact we gave the QB good protection last year down the stretch despite starting Salaam at LT and having no center of any worth.

To me, this team is starting to look like a contender. We have 4 first day draft picks starting from Tackle to tackle other than our C.....I don't know what most of our fans are looking at...cause apparently I don't see the same things. All I know is that Pitts and Weary can't complete passes to open receivers.

HoustonFrog
03-23-2007, 11:14 AM
Ok, fair enough, although I disagree with the position that this trade was worth it if Schaub plays well, I respect it. IMO, the difference between BPA at 10 vs. 8 and who is on the board when Altlanta uses our pick in the 2nd is really going to make some out there understand why some of us are really disappointed with this move. I acutally hope and expect Schaub to play well but that will not change my opinion of the cost to the team.

And, btw, if Smith and Kubiak were so sold on paying this kind of a price for Schaub (which they could have had anytime during FA) why were they trying to get something done with Plummer, Garcia and Ramsey?

It would appear that the cold hearted unvarnised truth about this deal is that Smith/Kubiak gave into a moment of desperation. There are other NFL teams that need a QB as badly (or yes even worse) than we did...why didn't they give the Falcons this deal?

Actually all this deal did was show you that they were looking to get rid of Carr and upgrade all off-season. This didn't happen by accident. They knew there would be a new QB this year the minute the season ended. They brought guys in and got an asking price. If they wanted Plummer and a rookie from this draft then they would have easily have given a 4th for him. They were looking to completely upgrade with someone who had been in the league and was young enough to stay around.

As for the cost to the team. I'm still not getting what was so over the top. We dropped back two slots so we still have our first in a position to take a top guy. We had looked at taking a 2nd rounder and moving up for a month. In my book we are still going to recoup some picks by moving back again. Getting Schaub took the place of the 2nd rounder we were thinking of using on a QB. So we still have our first. We got a QB we wanted..one with more experience and the only real loss is the 2nd next year. We still don't know what we are getting for Carr or if we will move down and get more picks. I don't see this as a steep price. Some in Atlanta wanted more.

michaelm
03-23-2007, 11:14 AM
Ok, fair enough, although I disagree with the position that this trade was worth it if Schaub plays well, I respect it. IMO, the difference between BPA at 10 vs. 8 and who is on the board when Altlanta uses our pick in the 2nd is really going to make some out there understand why some of us are really disappointed with this move. I acutally hope and expect Schaub to play well but that will not change my opinion of the cost to the team.

And, btw, if Smith and Kubiak were so sold on paying this kind of a price for Schaub (which they could have had anytime during FA) why were they trying to get something done with Plummer, Garcia and Ramsey?

It would appear that the cold hearted unvarnised truth about this deal is that Smith/Kubiak gave into a moment of desperation. There are other NFL teams that need a QB as badly (or yes even worse) than we did...why didn't they give the Falcons this deal?

I can respect this, but there are a few things I disagree with.
The #8 to #10 thing is very minimal IMO, to the point of irrelevance for me. I was already convinced BPA would not be a value at #8, so moving down 2 spots is an improvement for me.
And to me, it doesn't matter who ATL gets with our second round pick. We got a QB who should be able to step in and be our starter from day one of the season with that pick.
People say we gave up two players to get Schaub, but that's not my take.
We didn't give up a player in this years draft. We still get a player in the first round, and we drafted Schaub in the second, for all practical purposes.

Now, next year's second is a different matter, I admit, but we only gave up the chance of getting a position player next year.
To me, it's that simple. We payed the premium of sacrificing the chance at a position player next year to acquire a guy who is ready to step in and start right now. AND we didn't have to pay him to sit on our bench for three years and do his training...
If we just got our franchise QB for the next 5+ years, this will be an absolute steal. It still remains to be seen, based on Schaub's success as a starter...

real
03-23-2007, 11:16 AM
The most amazing thing to me is we can all see that our FO has gone WAY out of its way to replace Carr. They talked to Jake Plummer, Garcia, Trent Green and finally landed Schaub and not once have they tried to replace our linemen....so that SHOULD tell everyone that Carr was the biggest problem on this team...not the line. But yet everyone still crys about the line when in fact we gave the QB good protection last year down the stretch despite starting Salaam at LT and having no center of any worth.

To me, this team is starting to look like a contender. We have 4 first day draft picks starting from Tackle to tackle other than our C.....I don't know what most of our fans are looking at...cause apparently I don't see the same things. All I know is that Pitts and Weary can't complete passes to open receivers.


It's no longer about the team getting better...


Some peoples bubbles were burst when they traded for Schaub, so now the only "logical" thing for them to do is lash out at every player not named David Carr.

HoustonFrog
03-23-2007, 11:20 AM
It's no longer about the team getting better...


Some peoples bubbles were burst when they traded for Schaub, so now the only "logical" thing for them to do is lash out at every player not named David Carr.


Not only that but what cracks me up is that last week, when people thought Carr would be in Camp, there was a Carr contingent that said people had to accept that Kubes and Smith knew what they were doing and that if we kept Carr it was because they saw something. Now that the truth is out that he hasn't been in their plans all along and the new guy is here...Kubes and Smith don't know a thing and are idiots. What happened to the "trust tree"(sorry..Old School reference)

michaelm
03-23-2007, 11:22 AM
All I know is that Pitts and Weary can't complete passes to open receivers.

well, that's another thing they have in common with Carr besides close and repeated physical contact with the opposing team's defensive linemen...

...cue burlesque rimshot.

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2007, 11:29 AM
I will be happy to bet you sir that Landry is not there at 10.

There's a distinct possibility that he won't be there at 8, either.

Brazos-V
03-23-2007, 11:29 AM
Would anyone give two 2nds for Big Ben ( I'm not trying his last name ) ?

That would have been something I'm sure you all could swallow

Maybe Schaub is as good ... who knows .

This is why you overpaid for Schaub. Nobody knows what this guy can do on a consistant basis. And yes I'm a Titan fan, and no I'm not bashing him or the Texans.

Rick basically bet it all on Schaub. And trust me...He is praying Kubes can make him a great QB.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2007, 11:33 AM
I've been looking for the % of second round picks who actually make it .

I don't remember what it was but it was'nt over 50 % .

The Texans have two 2nd round picks that they made .... Ryans and Pitts .

If the % of 2nd rounders who actually make is 50 % then it's not that big of a deal IF Schaub pans out .

If you say that the FO is good at drafting then .... DUH ... they think Schaub is worth two 2nd rd. picks .

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-23-2007, 11:38 AM
Here's is a breakdown of the Schaub deal by a "NFL insider" from Lance Zierlein's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2007/03/david_carr_situation_and_matt.html) in the Chronic:

That's a pretty stinging analysis. I'd say a couple of things in Smith's defense. One, we don't know if there were other teams looking to make a deal for Schaub. I could see Oakland, Minnesota, and Cleveland having possible interest. This may have been the deal it took to take those teams out of the picture. Two, the Texans may actually have a deal on the table for David Carr, but didn't want to pull the trigger until Schaub was locked in.

I'm not totally discounting what this guy says. I remember the Falcons making a lot of moves prior to dealing for John Abraham last season. Just that there may have been extenuating circumstances that forced the Texans to move on Schaub sooner rather than later.



Who says we still can't trade down for a later first round pick along with a 2nd and possibly 3rd round pick (same scenario as the NFL Insider's). The question would then be which package has more value, a 2007 1st and 3rd round pick or two 2nd round picks (one being a 2008 pick which lowers its trade value to that of a 3rd round pick)?

edo783
03-23-2007, 11:39 AM
According to ESPN Sport Center,the Texans were salivating over Quinn and really wanted him. However, it became clear he wouldn't be dropping to 8 and the cost would be too high to move up, so they traded for Rico Schwaube (I like that one Vinny). Still have a top 10 pick to get a playmaker with and what at this time seems to be a fairly solid QB who has experience in the WCO. Did we give up too many 2nds....yup, I think so (the 08 one bugs me), but in the final analysis, it will all depend on how he plays and how the team does that will dictate if we screwed the pooch or not. I'm in the camp that it will likely work, but ya never know til the game is played.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2007, 11:40 AM
That would have been something I'm sure you all could swallow



This is why you overpaid for Schaub. Nobody knows what this guy can do on a consistant basis. And yes I'm a Titan fan, and no I'm not bashing him or the Texans.

Rick basically bet it all on Schaub. And trust me...He is praying Kubes can make him a great QB.

I'm betting this has a better chance of suring up the QB position for the next decade than .

1. Drafting Quinn

2. Keeping Carr

3. Plummer , Garcia then drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd .

4. Starting Sage .

Last year the Chargers had a log jam at QB . They elected to go with Rivers and the Saints benefitted greatly .

This year the Falcons had the same thing ... Vick happens to be stuck because of his contract .

Were the Chargers crazy to go with Rivers who had never played ... how did that work out anyway ?

humbleone
03-23-2007, 11:45 AM
I can respect this, but there are a few things I disagree with.
The #8 to #10 thing is very minimal IMO, to the point of irrelevance for me. I was already convinced BPA would not be a value at #8, so moving down 2 spots is an improvement for me.
And to me, it doesn't matter who ATL gets with our second round pick. We got a QB who should be able to step in and be our starter from day one of the season with that pick.
People say we gave up two players to get Schaub, but that's not my take.
We didn't give up a player in this years draft. We still get a player in the first round, and we drafted Schaub in the second, for all practical purposes.

Now, next year's second is a different matter, I admit, but we only gave up the chance of getting a position player next year.
To me, it's that simple. We payed the premium of sacrificing the chance at a position player next year to acquire a guy who is ready to step in and start right now. AND we didn't have to pay him to sit on our bench for three years and do his training...
If we just got our franchise QB for the next 5+ years, this will be an absolute steal. It still remains to be seen, based on Schaub's success as a starter...

Good points and I respect btw both you as a fan and your position. We just disagree on how big deal what we gave up for him is. Clearly, the deal with Schaub came late in the timeline of other moves we tried to improve our QB situation which means that the FO preferred not to have to pay this much for Schaub. So, what I am saying is that even they know they paid more than they wanted to for the guy by their own actions.


And if, Landry or, saints preserve us all AP is still there at 8, I'm not the only one that is going to really find this hard to take.

Anyway, I am glad that some of the fan base is in a cheerful mood. :gun:

Sco-tai
03-23-2007, 11:49 AM
but right now this kind of deal smells and looks kinda like a casserly type deal, but what do i know i am just another Texans fan

This question is WAYYYYYYYYY pre-mature.

He doesn't even have a number yet, and you're calling this deal a bad value (by saying we paid too much).

Wait until he has a few seasons (at least 2) before you even hint that it was a bad value. After all...why do you think the 6 year deal is broken up into 2 halves. If he turns out like Cody Carlson....we'll end the deal after the 2009 season. If he turns out like Warren Moon...Smith & Kubes will be heros.

real
03-23-2007, 11:53 AM
And if, Landry or, saints preserve us all AP is still there at 8, I'm not the only one that is going to really find this hard to take.



Because Good Running backs are hard to find ?

humbleone
03-23-2007, 12:00 PM
Because Good Running backs are hard to find ?

I am a bit surprised with your question. With your avitar I would think you would see more in AP's upside.

Ole Miss Texan
03-23-2007, 12:09 PM
The most amazing thing to me is we can all see that our FO has gone WAY out of its way to replace Carr. They talked to Jake Plummer, Garcia, Trent Green and finally landed Schaub and not once have they tried to replace our linemen....so that SHOULD tell everyone that Carr was the biggest problem on this team...not the line. But yet everyone still crys about the line when in fact we gave the QB good protection last year down the stretch despite starting Salaam at LT and having no center of any worth.



Don't forget they interrupted a meeting in Denver to fly Patrick Ramsey in for a few days! This FO did a good job in replacing Carr imo...Schaub > all the FA qb's this year..and he's only like 25...he has lots of good years ahead of him.

real
03-23-2007, 12:19 PM
I am a bit surprised with your question. With your avitar I would think you would see more in AP's upside.


Having great players is awesome. But I'm actually more concerned about building a successful team than I am about drafting stud RB's or any position for that matter.

I consider Barry Sanders one of if not THE greatest RB to play this game. No rings. LT, no rings. Edgerrin James, no rings. Larry Johnson, No rings. The list goes on...

Not saying great RB's don't win championships but you're talking about a hope and a prayer that AP will fall to eight vs. going out and making a definite move to get a guy you want....

Hope and prayers vs. Solid and concrete


I don't know about you but I like the decisiveness and find it a relief as opposed to all the guessing.

hadaad
03-23-2007, 12:29 PM
The most amazing thing to me is we can all see that our FO has gone WAY out of its way to replace Carr. (snip)

and not once have they tried to replace our linemen....so that SHOULD tell everyone that Carr was the biggest problem on this team...not the line. (snip)


What that tells me is NOT that the Front Office has no designs on upgrading the line, what it tells me is that they didn't do it in Free Agency. Maybe the price was wrong, maybe the personnel was wrong. I can see them being active in the draft, which says that maybe it's on the o-line too.

real
03-23-2007, 12:31 PM
What that tells me is NOT that the Front Office has no designs on upgrading the line, what it tells me is that they didn't do it in Free Agency. Maybe the price was wrong, maybe the personnel was wrong. I can see them being active in the draft, which says that maybe it's on the o-line too.


Are you serious that you can't see that O-line hasn't been a top priority ?



If you are a GM, and you know your O-line sucks....Would you have made your two biggest F/A signings a RB and QB ?

That doesn't make any sense, unless you plan on spending 5 picks in the draft on O-line...

shanden
03-23-2007, 12:44 PM
Can we just cut the fantasy that Schaub would be UFA after this year and we could get him on the cheap after starting Sage one year?
You think the Texans are the only team that desperately need a ready to start vet quaterback and were vying for the best graded RFA/UFA quarterback on the market?
No they were not. It was known in rumor circles the Vikings and Raiders were hot to get Schaub too and the Vikings came very close to nabbing him last year. It is believed the 2008 pick was required to outbid them.

Now a legit criticism was that the Texans should have traded down first in the draft and used 1-2 of those gained picks to grab Shuab. This assumes of course that Atlanta did not have a deadline for offers and that Shaub was about to be lost before a tradedown could ever take place.
The key on tradedowns is that they almost always happen on draft day since it takes a combination of a highly sought picks falling to the right spot, with several teams vying for that pick and being willing to bid up to grab him. No one would trade down with the Texans till they know who is available at their spot. Call it six sense, but it sounds like the Falcons were trading Schaub before the draft, due to them needing the picks to potentially bid up spots and/or bidding teams needing QB situation settled prior to using their #1 pick.

The other factor is the Texans have a large cap space next year and can grab 3-4 starting young top talent vets to start in 2008. The #2 - 2008 pick doesn't sting so badly in that light if you have you are familiar with the saying of "counting your chickens before they hatch" (much less having known commodity FA pick-ups over roll of the dice draft picks).

The only gamble is whether Schaub is the average to good franchise quarterback the entire league anticipates him being. The good news is that the risk of a Schaub bust is significantly lower then any other FA QB or draft QB available this year. If you argue with that point it is intellectually dishonest becuase you are using solely emotion and disagreeing with experts all across the NFL. Now Schaub is not a franchise QB yet, but then again, a team never trades a quality starting franchise QB once they have them and their potential is proven.

I think it should be pointed out that it seems folks somehow think it is possible to have used the 2007, 2008 picks to go back in time and draft VY. The simple truth is that the Texans would still need a starting QB this year because VY was not being offered a contract in 2006, only Bush and Mario were. Hindsight tells us now that VY was a good investment for the Titans, but if we had signed Bush instead of Mario we would still be looking for a QB this year.

Now if we could use the 2007 and 2008 second round picks to travel back in time and un-ink Carr's extension bonus, the rumor is that the Texans would have taken Leinart and not VY. So again we do not get VY. It is interesting to point out that Schaub is referred to in several circles as a ready-to-start right-handed Leinart. So while the Txans can't use second round picks to travel back in time, much less use them to get Leinart now, the did just use them for a quarterback that is compared very closely to Leinart.

Honoring Earl 34
03-23-2007, 01:46 PM
Now, however, the Falcons might be looking to enhance their draft position; they traded their first-round draft pick to the New York Jets last month as part of a deal for defensive lineman John Abraham. The Vikings have five picks in the first three rounds and probably would have to part with their first-round pick, No. 17 overall, in order to complete a trade


This was the going rate last year .

humbleone
03-23-2007, 01:56 PM
Having great players is awesome. But I'm actually more concerned about building a successful team than I am about drafting stud RB's or any position for that matter.

I consider Barry Sanders one of if not THE greatest RB to play this game. No rings. LT, no rings. Edgerrin James, no rings. Larry Johnson, No rings. The list goes on...

Not saying great RB's don't win championships but you're talking about a hope and a prayer that AP will fall to eight vs. going out and making a definite move to get a guy you want....

Hope and prayers vs. Solid and concrete


I don't know about you but I like the decisiveness and find it a relief as opposed to all the guessing.

I just don't see this as being indicative of decisiveness. On the contrary, I see it as the FO failed to get done 2-3 QB moves that they acutally preferred and then pulled the trigger on this one. We will probably never really know the truth about the timing of this deal but as I said in a previous post, the only plausible reason I can come up with for this is that Smith became convinced that one of the other teams interested in Schaub was really going to cough up the Atlanta asking price for him prior to the draft thereby removing him as an option for the team next year as a UFA.

Otherwise, why wasn't this the move they made "decisively" at the beginning of FA instead of the QB parade we saw? I would agree with your point if this is how it would have gone down.

Regardless, I am happy for you guys that are really cheerful about the trade and will be pulling very hard for Matt to succeed. And, as Babin has commented, it really isn't his fault how much the team paid to get him.

real
03-23-2007, 01:59 PM
I just don't see this as being indicative of decisiveness. On the contrary, I see it as the FO failed to get done 2-3 QB moves that they acutally preferred and then pulled the trigger on this one. We will probably never really know the truth about the timing of this deal but as I said in a previous post, the only plausible reason I can come up with for this is that Smith became convinced that one of the other teams interested in Schaub was really going to cough up the Atlanta asking price for him prior to the draft thereby removing him as an option for the team next year as a UFA.

Otherwise, why wasn't this the move they made "decisively" at the beginning of FA instead of the QB parade we saw? I would agree with your point if this is how it would have gone down.

Regardless, I am happy for you guys that are really cheerful about the trade and will be pulling very hard for Matt to succeed. And, as Babin has commented, it really isn't his fault how much the team paid to get him.

I don't think you got me...The move itself wasn't swift...

But they were very decisive and intent on replacing Carr...It's no coincidence that our name has been mentioned with just about every QB that's available from free agents to draft prospects...

Waiting and hoping a RB that has top three talent to fall to 8 is nothing but a pipe dream.

Double Barrel
03-23-2007, 02:07 PM
Does anyone seriously want old retreads like Plummer, Garcia, etc., over a guy like Shaub?!

Our FO is building for the future, not some short term project to please a bunch of myopic fans.

Can we just cut the fantasy that Schaub would be UFA after this year and we could get him on the cheap after starting Sage one year?

It's a great thought, and one I wish could be implemented. But no way will some of our fans give up that easily. As far a they are concerned, we woulda'/coulda'/shoulda' got a couple of first round picks for Carr and picked up Shaub for a backup next year for an NFL minimum salary.

humbleone
03-23-2007, 02:13 PM
I don't think you got me...The move itself wasn't swift...

But they were very decisive and intent on replacing Carr...It's no coincidence that our name has been mentioned with just about every QB that's available from free agents to draft prospects...

Waiting and hoping a RB that has top three talent to fall to 8 is nothing but a pipe dream.

You're right X, I did miss your point. Thanks...I get what you are saying and agree that they certainly have been decisive in making a different option happen at QB...on that point we are in violent agreement.

And, no point in arguing about AP or Landry either really, that "other shoe" will either drop or not on this deal next month and then we will all have more to rant about no doubt.

TwinSisters
03-23-2007, 02:28 PM
over pay?

"Last year I started calling him 'Big Foot.' There's the legend and the reality," Falcons general manager Rich McKay, whose position in the draft is bolstered with three of the top 44 picks, said during a phone interview. "It just shows you what the value of the position is and how hard it is to find quarterbacks."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/2007-03-22-schaub-trade_N.htm

http://www.texasbigfoot.com/Fate779.html

We shall see!

humbleone
03-23-2007, 02:29 PM
Does anyone seriously want old retreads like Plummer, Garcia, etc., over a guy like Shaub?!

Our FO is building for the future, not some short term project to please a bunch of myopic fans.



It's a great thought, and one I wish could be implemented. But no way will some of our fans give up that easily. As far a they are concerned, we woulda'/coulda'/shoulda' got a couple of first round picks for Carr and picked up Shaub for a backup next year for an NFL minimum salary.

Until this offseason, I thought that too about the new FO. It is the FO that brought in Garcia and Ramsey and probably tried for Plummer too, not the fans. I for one do not find it comforting or confidence inspiring that we ended up making a decision of this magnitude after the other moves failed and a successful discussion happened on the back nine of a round of golf.

That said, I do agree with you that Schuab is a better QB prospect than the other three. And, as I have said in other posts, the FO actions seem to say that they themselves would have actually preferred one of those other options if the price on them had been right. Meaning, they did not want to have to pay this much for Schuab.

Vinny
03-23-2007, 02:37 PM
Until this offseason, I thought that too about the new FO. It is the FO that brought in Garcia and Ramsey and probably tried for Plummer too, not the fans. I for one do not find it comforting or confidence inspiring that we ended up making a decision of this magnitude after the other moves failed and a successful discussion happened on the back nine of a round of golf.

. The team was looking to draft Brady Quinn if they brought in a short term chump. I stated weeks ago that we would move up to get him if we had too....people just laughed at me...but today we gave up picks to get Schaub. One day some of you guys will listen to me....well, on second thought, no you won't.

:)

Errant Hothy
03-23-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm betting that the price for Schaub was cheaper then the price to trade up to get Quinn.