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View Full Version : Joey Porter & Bengals OLineman in Vegas Casino Dust-up !


nunusguy
03-19-2007, 10:31 AM
A National Football League player was cited for misdemeanor battery after he punched a league rival in the face Sunday night at a gaming table in the Palms, Las Vegas police said.

Linebacker Joey Porter, a longtime Pittsburgh Steeler who signed a five-year, $32 million deal with the Miami Dolphins this month, was cited for the brief fight he had with Levi Jones, an offensive tackle with the Cincinnati Bengals, in the casino about 6:55 p.m., Las Vegas police Lt. Kevin McMahill said.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Mar-19-Mon-2007/news/13262589.html

TwinSisters
03-19-2007, 10:43 AM
cool.

Although hitting a girl is a bit sissy.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 11:15 AM
lol, sweet.

real
03-19-2007, 11:16 AM
Joey Porter is a nut....


And I love it !!

Mr. White
03-19-2007, 11:19 AM
Here's PFT's take (http://www.profootballtalk.com).

The altercation started at a gaming table at the Palms casino.

Per an e-mail from a reader who claims to have witnessed the incident, "They started talking ****, Joey Porter saying he'll always be a Steeler. He showed off the Super Bowl ring and Jones got up to him, and Joey Porter pretty much kicked his ass . . . . Jones never got a shot in."

AtheGreat
03-19-2007, 11:21 AM
man, if they're already in vegas, might as well done it for 5 more rounds and made some money off it. get HBO and Don King in this.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 11:31 AM
Here's PFT's take (http://www.profootballtalk.com).
i love it.

Mr teX
03-19-2007, 11:55 AM
Yet another bengal adding to the "thug life" mentality that is Cincinati Pro football.

real
03-19-2007, 12:02 PM
Yet another bengal adding to the "thug life" mentality that is Cincinati Pro football.

Whenever a young black man has a fist fight he's labled a thug. Yeah I said it.

I think that's bull IMHO...

People have fist fights all the time, in all age groups, and every race. But becaue theses guys are young, well known black men, they get labled "thugs". Granted some of these guys are thugs, but I don't think we know enough about some of these athletes to assume they're thugs because of a freaking fist fight.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 12:10 PM
Whenever a young black man has a fist fight he's labled a thug. Yeah I said it.

I think that's bull IMHO...

People have fist fights all the time, in all age groups, and every race. But becaue theses guys are young, well known black men, they get labled "thugs". Granted some of these guys are thugs, but I don't think we know enough about some of these athletes to assume they're thugs because of a freaking fist fight.
sounds like thugs to me!

Mr teX
03-19-2007, 12:10 PM
Whenever a young black man has a fist fight he's labled a thug. Yeah I said it.

I think that's bull IMHO...

People have fist fights all the time, in all age groups, and every race. But becaue theses guys are young, well known black men, they get labled "thugs". Granted some of these guys are thugs, but I don't think we know enough about some of these athletes to assume they're thugs because of a freaking fist fight.

I made that statement in reference to what the Cincinati Bengals players have been caught up in for the better part of a year. If it were a white guy i would have made the same statement, has nothing to do with both of the guys being black, jeez.

real
03-19-2007, 12:13 PM
I made that statement in reference to what the Cincinati Bengals players have been caught up in for the better part of a year. If it were a white guy i would have made the same statement, has nothing to do with both of the guys being black, jeez.

I quoted you because you used the word "thugs"...I was making a general statement, because my reading comprehension is fairly good and I realize that you weren't calling anybody anything.

But I stick by what I wrote.

real
03-19-2007, 12:15 PM
sounds like thugs to me!

Not sure if this was sarcasm or not, but assuming it wasn't...


Fist fight in your mind = thug ?

TwinSisters
03-19-2007, 12:15 PM
I think that's bull IMHO...

Whenever a young black man has a fist fight he's labled a thug. Yeah I said it.

I don't agree.

Nalen, Romanowski, Wisniewski, Widell, Gogan, etc.

All thugs. None are black... but they might all be Polish or something.

real
03-19-2007, 12:17 PM
I don't agree.

Nalen, Romanowski, Wisniewski, Widell, Gogan, etc.

All thugs. None are black... but they might all be Polish or something.

None of those guys were called "thugs" or associated with "thug life" or being a "gangster"...

I'm not asking you to agree. I'm telling you how it is.

If a young black athlete does something wrong...fist fight, drugs...whatever...He's called a thug...

No other race is.

I'm not really going to debate it, and I'll pretty much leave this topic alone because I don't want to get into it, just adding my two cents.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 12:20 PM
Not sure if this was sarcasm or not, but assuming it wasn't...


Fist fight in your mind = thug ?
yeah i was busting your balls actually because of the oversimplified look at things, but that seems to be your thing.

ya see, this "thug" label is applied anytime there's "thuggish" behavior. "thuggish" means a very aggressive behavior, and always in a group. this is why these NBA fights are called "thuggish" because it's a bunch of dudes ganging up and throwing hands. that's why he called the bengals "thuggish" because it's almost a group-mentality with all of their crazy antics. if there's just a fistfight between two guys, whatever.

michaelm
03-19-2007, 12:21 PM
_



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thug


_

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 12:21 PM
None of those guys were called "thugs" or associated with "thug life" or being a "gangster"...

I'm not asking you to agree. I'm telling you how it is.

If a young black athlete does something wrong...fist fight, drugs...whatever...He's called a thug...

No other race is.

I'm not really going to debate it, and I'll pretty much leave this topic alone because I don't want to get into it, just adding my two cents.
another wonderful "what i'm saying is the gospel, what you say is meaningless, and i'm not saying anything else" post from xtru. you're a genius sir.

Mr teX
03-19-2007, 12:24 PM
_



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thug


_

That is total garbage right there. I suppose there's a suburbia dictionary on the web.

real
03-19-2007, 12:29 PM
yeah i was busting your balls actually because of the oversimplified look at things, but that seems to be your thing.

ya see, this "thug" label is applied anytime there's "thuggish" behavior. "thuggish" means a very aggressive behavior, and always in a group. this is why these NBA fights are called "thuggish" because it's a bunch of dudes ganging up and throwing hands. that's why he called the bengals "thuggish" because it's almost a group-mentality with all of their crazy antics. if there's just a fistfight between two guys, whatever.

Guess I am going to get into it...

You're making stuff up as you go along....sorta writting your own "rule" book....



Why aren't baseball players considered "thugs" when they have bench clearing brawls ?

Why aren't hockey players considered "thugs" when they fight, and almost kill eachother on the ice ?

Why is it that only the two perdominitely Black sports, get players labled as thugs when they have mis-haps with the law ?

I think you need to look up the definition of "thug" in the dictionary.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 12:29 PM
don't be fooled by the "urban" in urbandictionary.

disaacks3
03-19-2007, 12:29 PM
Fist fight in your mind = thug ? In the middle of a friggin Casino? Yep, that's thuggish behavior. It implies that you believe that the rules of civilized society DON'T APPLY to you.

Like it or not, all youth aren't brought up to fight those whom they think are "disrespecting" them...That's a "social issue".

real
03-19-2007, 12:30 PM
another wonderful "what i'm saying is the gospel, what you say is meaningless, and i'm not saying anything else" post from xtru. you're a genius sir.

I guess you think I'm here to please you or impress you.

LOL @ that.

real
03-19-2007, 12:31 PM
thug

1. a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer.

2. (sometimes initial capital letter) one of a former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who strangled their victims.

phantom17
03-19-2007, 12:33 PM
LOL! This should have stayed in Vegas like the commercial says! And we all agree that some Bengal's players are acting like "deviants". So there I won't be acussed of generalizing a particular race, sheesh, stupid "political correctness"! :this:

TwinSisters
03-19-2007, 12:34 PM
Porter has already been called a thug and dirty by a SI/NFL players poll

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15335482/

New England Patriots safety Rodney Harrison tops Sports Illustrated's list of dirtiest players in the NFL, ESPN reported Thursday.

Of the 361 NFL players polled during the preseason, 23 percent of them pointed to Harrison, according to ESPN. Second on the list were Joey Porter of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Jon Runyan of the Philadelphia Eagles at 6 percent each.

as far as the "thug" for modern gansta thug as oppossed to "thug" for like old style 50's gangs thugs. That's a push. Really it's just cultural relevance.

Think West Side Story or Outsiders... thugs for the big guys, punks for the scrawny ones.

real
03-19-2007, 12:34 PM
In the middle of a friggin Casino? Yep, that's thuggish behavior. It implies that you believe that the rules of civilized society DON'T APPLY to you.

Like it or not, all youth aren't brought up to fight those whom they think are "disrespecting" them...That's a "social issue".

I don't think you know what a "thug" is.

Fist fighting is not thuggish.

And what does fighting people who disrespect you have to do with anything ?

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 12:34 PM
Why aren't baseball players considered "thugs" when they have bench clearing brawls ?

Why aren't hockey players considered "thugs" when they fight, and almost kill eachother on the ice ?

Why is it that only the two perdominitely Black sports, get players labled as thugs when they have mis-haps with the law ?

I think you need to look up the definition of "thug" in the dictionary.
the difference is, in baseball and hockey, these incidents are pretty much part of the game. they don't call a bench-clearing brawl "thuggish behavior" because it's almost anticipated after a few too many pitches inside. same in hockey. fighting is part of the game. they're called "goons." now when a guy takes a stick to the throat of another guy, then you get the "oh what a criminal" and "lock him up" and all of that. i.e. chris simon.

in basketball and football, there's no unwritten "allowance" of any violence at all. when there's a fight in either sport, it's regarded as a horrible unsportsmanlike event.

"thug" has many definitions. however, my definition is probably what most suburban white guys (like those at ESPN and etc) would define "thuggish behavior" as.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 12:36 PM
I guess you think I'm here to please you or impress you.

LOL @ that.
no, i think you're hear just to ruffle feathers and present no argument whatsoever to your side, except to make yourself look like a pompous ass.

real
03-19-2007, 12:41 PM
the difference is, in baseball and hockey, these incidents are pretty much part of the game. they don't call a bench-clearing brawl "thuggish behavior" because it's almost anticipated after a few too many pitches inside. same in hockey. fighting is part of the game. they're called "goons." now when a guy takes a stick to the throat of another guy, then you get the "oh what a criminal" and "lock him up" and all of that. i.e. chris simon.

in basketball and football, there's no unwritten "allowance" of any violence at all. when there's a fight in either sport, it's regarded as a horrible unsportsmanlike event.

"thug" has many definitions. however, my definition is probably what most suburban white guys (like those at ESPN and etc) would define "thuggish behavior" as.


I'm not trying to change your view points....I'm only expressing mine.



Pedro Martinez grabbed that old manager( can't think of his name) by his head and threw him to the ground.

Never heard him called a thug.

Baseball has more bench clearing brawls than any other sport.


By your original defenition, Hockey and Baseball players would both fit into the "thug" category.

But when I brought them up, you changed it up once again.

You, my friend are a chameleon.

real
03-19-2007, 12:43 PM
no, i think you're hear just to ruffle feathers and present no argument whatsoever to your side, except to make yourself look like a pompous ass.


I'm pretty sure you are a grown man.

I'm 21 years old, and I honestly can't remember when I let some words on a screen ruffle my feathers to the point where I needed to call names or take personal shots at posters.

You really need to grow up.

disaacks3
03-19-2007, 12:47 PM
I don't think you know what a "thug" is.

Fist fighting is not thuggish.
I don't think YOU know what a "thug" is either....so what?
You've got YOUR opinion, I've got MINE. I stand by my comments just as strongly as you stand by yours.

And what does fighting people who disrespect you have to do with anything ? I brought it up as a possible cause for this "altercation". Read into it what you will... :rolleyes:

Hulk75
03-19-2007, 12:54 PM
Now you know how we do it in Bakersfield.:)

Would have loved to see this fight.

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2002/04/28/ljcactus600_zoom.jpg
6-5 307

http://www.ffbslant.com/files/images/joeyporter.jpg
6-3 250

real
03-19-2007, 12:56 PM
I don't think YOU know what a "thug" is either....so what?
You've got YOUR opinion, I've got MINE. I stand by my comments just as strongly as you stand by yours.

For the record, I don't think any of it is "thuggish"...I think it's just guys with heavy testosterone having a brawl...

Is it right ? No...Fighting is for kids, and even they shouldn't do it.

But I'm still confused as to why Carmelo Anthony and Nate Robinson, and all those other guys get called thugs when they have fights, yet I've never heard that word used to describe a baseball brawl or hockey fight...


please explain to me the difference.

real
03-19-2007, 12:57 PM
Would have loved to see this fight.




That's really awful......







But I agree..:joker:

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 12:58 PM
I'm not trying to change your view points....I'm only expressing mine.

Pedro Martinez grabbed that old manager( can't think of his name) by his head and threw him to the ground.

Never heard him called a thug.

Baseball has more bench clearing brawls than any other sport.

By your original defenition, Hockey and Baseball players would both fit into the "thug" category.

But when I brought them up, you changed it up once again.

You, my friend are a chameleon.
i never heard martinez called a thug either, but then again, whatever, he may or may have not been, that was several years ago, who knows. the genereal sentiment was probably more that "lol did he really just throw don freakign zimmer to the ground??"

i didn't change the definition. what i SAID was: no one is going to call them thugs because it's an accepted part of each sport. people use "thuggish" with activity that borders on illegalities, but in hockey and baseball, it's pretty much expected and ENCOURAGED in those situations, so they just call them "brawls" and "fights" and those generally accepted terms relative to each sport. my opinion hasn't changed at all, you're just not interpereting the text correctly.
I'm pretty sure you are a grown man.

I'm 21 years old, and I honestly can't remember when I let some words on a screen ruffle my feathers to the point where I needed to call names or take personal shots at posters.

You really need to grow up.
well-played.

my feathers have not been ruffled. you just act like a pompous ass when it comes to any sort of argument. how can "what i say is fact and i'm not debating it any further" NOT sound like pomposity, eh? actually, i don't want to hear your opinion on it, because what i'm saying is right and disagreeing with me is wrong, and i want none of it.

real
03-19-2007, 01:03 PM
the genereal sentiment was probably more that "lol did he really just throw don freakign zimmer to the ground??"



Why was that incident funny and not "thuggish" ?

Specnatz
03-19-2007, 01:04 PM
I'm not trying to change your view points....I'm only expressing mine.



Pedro Martinez grabbed that old manager( can't think of his name) by his head and threw him to the ground.

Never heard him called a thug.

Baseball has more bench clearing brawls than any other sport.


By your original defenition, Hockey and Baseball players would both fit into the "thug" category.

But when I brought them up, you changed it up once again.

You, my friend are a chameleon.


His name was and is Don Zimmerman. By the way he charged at Pedro, I guess he was suppossed to stand there and do nothing and let the guy hit him. He just pushed the old man away, next time he should keeps his old fat butt on the bench and not charge a player.

Actually xlt, it is not the behavior that one does on the field of play that gets the thuggish lable. Well unless you are Ron artest and you go up into the stand to beat the crap out of the wrong guy. No one is calling Camello a thug for his sucker punch and his hasty retreat, a chicken chit, but not a thug.

As far as Romanowski not being called a thug, yeah I am sure he was called that along with roid head and countless of other things.

A fist fight may not be "thug" behavior but c'mon what would you call it when an ***** punches someone in the face in the middle of a casino. Ya think that maybe a camera caught it?

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:08 PM
Why was that incident funny and not "thuggish" ?
there is a perceived difference between two young testoserone-filled dudes throwing hands at each other than some weird guy throwing an old guy (that charged HIM btw) to the ground. plenty of people thought it was awful, but....it's definitely NOT thuggish, by any definition. unless he threw him down and took his wallet.

real
03-19-2007, 01:10 PM
A fist fight may not be "thug" behavior but c'mon what would you call it when an ***** punches someone in the face in the middle of a casino. Ya think that maybe a camera caught it?

A few years back Kyle Turley ripped an opponents helmet off and threw it into the air, and then paraded around the field like he was Macho Man....No mention of Thug behavior.

Can you honestly imagine a Black athlete doing that in the NFL and not being called a thug ?


No matter what anyone says there are just some people that will refuse to believe that there ARE racial overtones with the word "thug", even if two opposite races are doing the same thing.

I can agree with some points you all make, but overall I disagree.

No matter how many examples some are given, they will always have a "yeah but" flying out of there mouth or a "no, this situation was different because"....

Whatever.

disaacks3
03-19-2007, 01:11 PM
For the record, I don't think any of it is "thuggish"...I think it's just guys with heavy testosterone having a brawl...

Is it right ? No...Fighting is for kids, and even they shouldn't do it.

But I'm still confused as to why Carmelo Anthony and Nate Robinson, and all those other guys get called thugs when they have fights, yet I've never heard that word used to describe a baseball brawl or hockey fight...


please explain to me the difference. I don't consider two guys having a fight a "brawl". I generally reserve that for a minimum of 6-10 combatants (the NBA doesn't have the bench-depth of the NFL). I fully appreciate the point you're trying to make, but while I don't consider an on-field altercation "thuggish" behavior (unless you're pulling a Haynesworth and stomping on somebody's head), I do consider having a one-on-one fight in a VERY public, brightly-lit place to be so.

It's hard to use the excuse of "heat of battle" on a Casino floor.

real
03-19-2007, 01:12 PM
No one is calling Camello a thug for his sucker punch and his hasty retreat, a chicken *****, but not a thug.


So what exactly is he being called a thug for ?

And why wasn't he thought of as a thug until after the fight ?

real
03-19-2007, 01:21 PM
I don't consider two guys having a fight a "brawl". I generally reserve that for a minimum of 6-10 combatants (the NBA doesn't have the bench-depth of the NFL). I fully appreciate the point you're trying to make, but while I don't consider an on-field altercation "thuggish" behavior (unless you're pulling a Haynesworth and stomping on somebody's head), I do consider having a one-on-one fight in a VERY public, brightly-lit place to be so.

It's hard to use the excuse of "heat of battle" on a Casino floor.

This has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR PERSONAL VIEW POINTS.


Everybody is different, and I don't know any of you personally so I'm not accusing any of you of feeling a certain way, one way or the other....

I'm talking about the general feel in America...I'm talking about the media....

I don't understand why you're taking it personal as if I have said one thing about your individual view points.

You're arguing against the fact that there is a general bias towards young black athletes, and young blacks in general and I'm not really sure how you can argue that.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:23 PM
A few years back Kyle Turley ripped an opponents helmet off and threw it into the air, and then paraded around the field like he was Macho Man....No mention of Thug behavior.

Can you honestly imagine a Black athlete doing that in the NFL and not being called a thug ?


No matter what anyone says there are just some people that will refuse to believe that there ARE racial overtones with the word "thug", even if two opposite races are doing the same thing.

I can agree with some points you all make, but overall I disagree.

No matter how many examples some are given, they will always have a "yeah but" flying out of there mouth or a "no, this situation was different because"....

Whatever.
you're really reaching here for your examples, and that's the problem. find an instance where there is COMPARABLE situations, and maybe you'll have something. there's a vast vast VAST difference between pedro throwing an old guy to the ground and two 20-something black dudes throwing fists at each other. there's a vast difference between kyle turley perceivably going insane and chucking a helmet than two guys fighting. if a black guy throws an opponents helmet like turley, is he called a thug? no, he's called crazy or a wildman or something. for example, look at the cleveland brown who got angry and knocked the ref out many moons ago. thug? nope, he got the wildman card. those are similiar situations.

romanowski has gotten into plenty of fistfights and got the same treatment by the media as any black guy getting into fights.

but whatever.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:24 PM
You're arguing against the fact that there is a general bias towards young black athletes, and young blacks in general and I'm not really sure how you can argue that.
probably because you're calling it a "fact" when it's clearly not.

real
03-19-2007, 01:30 PM
probably because you're calling it a "fact" when it's clearly not.

Oh ok.... I get it now...And I totally understand...

You're one of those people that think racism and discrimination is dead, or not a factor...

Gotcha...:ok:

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:32 PM
lmao, another wonderous simplistic response.

and, for the record, i'm not necessarily arguing against THAT point, as much as i'm just arguining against your weak arguments. you provide no facts and just sit on your high-horse and expect everyone to agree with you just because you say so.

real
03-19-2007, 01:34 PM
you're really reaching here for your examples, and that's the problem. find an instance where there is COMPARABLE situations, and maybe you'll have something. there's a vast vast VAST difference between pedro throwing an old guy to the ground and two 20-something black dudes throwing fists at each other. there's a vast difference between kyle turley perceivably going insane and chucking a helmet than two guys fighting. if a black guy throws an opponents helmet like turley, is he called a thug? no, he's called crazy or a wildman or something. for example, look at the cleveland brown who got angry and knocked the ref out many moons ago. thug? nope, he got the wildman card. those are similiar situations.

romanowski has gotten into plenty of fistfights and got the same treatment by the media as any black guy getting into fights.

but whatever.

I've already compared similar situations....But once again, you changed colors and blended in and said "it's expected in this sport, and even welcomed"...

Which IMO, is bologna.

real
03-19-2007, 01:36 PM
and, for the record, i'm not necessarily arguing against THAT point, as much as i'm just arguining against your weak arguments.



This makes absolutely no sense what so ever...seeing as "THAT point", and my "weak arguments" are one in the same...

You talk yourself in circles a lot.

And for the record, I don't "expect" anything out of any of you...LOL....I don't care about you that much....

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:37 PM
I've already compared similar situations....But once again, you changed colors and blended in and said "it's expected in this sport, and even welcomed"...

Which IMO, is bologna.
as you said earlier in this thread, it's not about MY opinion, or about YOUR opinion, it's about what the media, and society in general, perceives. to the media, they look at a brawl in hockey or baseball as a part of the game. they happen ALL THE TIME and never get more than a few highlights on sportscenter. in football and basketball, it's a huge deal when there's any sort of mass brawl. because A) they rarely happen and B) it's certainly not a part of the game.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:37 PM
This makes absolutely no sense what so ever...
ah, say no more. ;)

real
03-19-2007, 01:47 PM
as you said earlier in this thread, it's not about MY opinion, or about YOUR opinion, it's about what the media, and society in general, perceives. to the media, they look at a brawl in hockey or baseball as a part of the game. they happen ALL THE TIME and never get more than a few highlights on sportscenter. in football and basketball, it's a huge deal when there's any sort of mass brawl. because A) they rarely happen and B) it's certainly not a part of the game.

So I guess it's just coincidence that the two sports populated most by Blacks are the ones where "fights are a bigger deal"...

This has nothing to do with the history of a sport...absolutely nothing...

Fighting is fighting....Bench clearing brawls are bench clearing brawls....

I'm talking about individual players and people being labled...

All you are saying is that even though these people over here are doing the same thing as those people over there it's ok because....blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....blah.....

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:48 PM
*sigh*

useless.

keyfro
03-19-2007, 03:03 PM
haha...when i first heard this story all i could think of was the superbowl interview with joey porter about jeremy stevens...when porter is asking the reporters who they would want with them in a dark alley

porter is the classic example of a brawler on and off the field...a lot of guys on the field are naturally going to like him due to his attitude...it's also going to rub the guys on the other side the wrong way...him and levi jones have had many battles on the field...to me it was a matter of time before an off the field battle happened

disaacks3
03-19-2007, 03:17 PM
This has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR PERSONAL VIEW POINTS.
You're arguing against the fact that there is a general bias towards young black athletes, and young blacks in general and I'm not really sure how you can argue that. First off, I challenge you to find the word "black" (or Hispanic, White, Asian,etc.) in any of my previous posts in this thread. My argument had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with RACE, it had to do with the descriptive phrase "thuggish behavior".

You sir are arguing something as fact, (see your bolded word above) that is anything but. Are you surprised that your assertions have gone challenged by others in this thread?

Ride the high-horse w/ the chip on your shoulder if you must, but please don't make the mistake of attributing things to me that I didn't say.

real
03-19-2007, 03:47 PM
All I've done in this thread is present my side of the argument, brought up a few situations that you either do or don't agree with and I've stated several times that it has nothing to do with individual view points...

Why do you and Kast feel the need to include snide remarks, and personal attacks in each one of your post ?

serious question.

Mr. White
03-19-2007, 03:57 PM
Another wrinkle to the story (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm)....if it's true, then this is thuggish.

JONES WUZ ROBBED?

Bengals tackle Levi Jones now claims that, during the Sunday night incident in which Dolphins linebacker Joey Porter allegedly beat him up, Jones also was robbed.

Per Bengals.com, some jewelry alleged was stolen from Jones as part of the incident, and that as many as seven people (including Porter) were involved in the attack on Jones. (The whereabouts of Porters' dogs at the time of the incident are unknown.)

Porter showed up in Miami on Monday for the first day of the team's offseason strength and conditioning program.

Lucky
03-19-2007, 04:33 PM
None of those guys were called "thugs" or associated with "thug life" or being a "gangster"...

I'm not asking you to agree. I'm telling you how it is.

If a young black athlete does something wrong...fist fight, drugs...whatever...He's called a thug...

No other race is.

Try googling Romanowski or Marty McSorley with the word thug. You might be surprised.

real
03-19-2007, 04:42 PM
Try googling Romanowski or Marty McSorley with the word thug. You might be surprised.

found a bunch of opinions on different message boards which obviously don't mean much, but I did stumble across this article if you care to read:

http://politicalkarma.blogspot.com/2007/01/thug-life.html

real
03-19-2007, 04:45 PM
What is a thug?
Michael Vick flap has some asking if the word has become a racial slur

By JOHN KESSLER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 01/25/07

In discussion of Michael Vick's latest trial by public opinion, a word keeps popping up to tarnish the image of Atlanta's $130 million man.

Thug.


CURTIS COMPTON/Staff
(ENLARGE)
Quarterback Michael Vick's hip-hop fashion sense and recent off-field problems have prompted some, including talk-show host Neal Boortz, to call him a thug.

RELATED LINK:

• What terms of abuse are most provocative?



Considering that Vick is not a hardened criminal or known to be a gang member, has the use of the word "thug" about him, and other young black men, started to sound like a racial epithet?

"I've been astonished at the blanket bigotry in some cases," said Jamie Dukes, the 680 the Fan talk host and former Florida State offensive guard. "Thuggery denotes a criminal element."

How did a word with roots in Hindi and historical associations with the likes of Al Capone emerge as another marker on the fault line in America's race relations?

Last Friday, as Vick's latest unfortunate event unfolded, these fault lines became explicit on talk radio, in sports blogs and around the office coffee pot.

Bloggers on ajc.com have hurled the word at Vick and analyzed its meaning at length.

One popular talk-show host, as well, made no effort to avoid the word.

"That's the way I look at him," said syndicated talk-show host Neal Boortz in a telephone interview after he aired a show last Friday that was critical of Vick. "There's no doubt that he's immensely talented as a football player, but when he's off the field, he just becomes another two-bit gangster thug walking around the streets with his pants down eight inches about his knees and God knows what else."

Vick's hip-hop fashion sense, cornrows and jewelry drew as much condemnation in these arenas of public discourse as his string of unrelated personal problems. The incident last week at the Miami airport was the latest to draw attention, with an accusation that Vick tried to take marijuana through the Miami airport dismissed Tuesday. (Earlier this year Vick made an obscene gesture to game spectators and settled a lawsuit alleging he knowingly infected a woman with herpes.)

"It's become a very racially sensitive discussion," observes Steak Shapiro, host of 790 The Zone's "Mayhem in the A.M." sports talk radio program, with some callers basically saying, "If a white athlete screws up, he's made a poor decision; if a black athlete screws up, he's a thug."

"It's just an irresponsible way to label somebody," says Atlanta Hawks captain Joe Johnson.

From India to White House

The word came into the English language in the early 19th-century from India, where it was used in several languages to refer a murderous group.

In traditional English usage, thugs often refer to henchmen in organized crime syndicates. President George H.W. Bush memorably called General Manuel Antonio Noriega of Panama a thug in 1989 before capturing him and bringing him to trial in the United States.

Around the same time, the word also gained popularity in the National Basketball Association when intimidating, temperamental black players were labeled "thugs on the court."

However the word's great champion was the late rapper Tupac Shakur, who popularized the phrase "thug life" to describe inner-city violence in the 1990s. (He also founded a hip-hop group with that name.) In his hit song "Shorty Wanna Be a Thug," Shakur described how a young black man from a middle-class family was drawn into a violent street life. He condemned the lifestyle but also romanticized its ensuing code of ethics. The word has been featured prominently in hip-hop culture.

Jesse Sheidlower, editor at large of the Oxford English Dictionary, calls this process — turning a pejorative word on its head — amelioration. Minority groups can "defuse a word's impact by using it in a positive way."

The O.E.D.'s definition notes this amelioration in a definition of the adjective thugged out:

"Resembling a thug in dress or behaviour, tough-looking. In extended use, as a term of approval: tough, hardened, or dispassionate."

Sheidlower also notes that "it's typical for in-group amelioration not to extend past the group." In other words, a minority group may reclaim an epithet for self referential use but it remains a slur outside of the group.

For the record, Sheidlower has not noted "thug" used as a pejorative term by whites to describe young black men.

Johnson of the Hawks disagrees. "I do think it's definitely a race-based stereotype. And I think it's one that, in our culture today, too many people are willing to accept and tolerate, even when they know it's wrong."

Staff writer Sekou Smith contributed the quote from Joe Johnson.

http://www.ajc.com/living/content/living/stories/2007/01/24/0125LVthug.html

Lucky
03-19-2007, 04:51 PM
I read the article and it made some interesting points. I certainly don't think someone should be labeled a thug for the way they dress. Or talk. Or their race.

But, Porter & Jones were labeled as thugs for their actions. Don't want to be called a thug? Pretty simple solution. Stop acting like one.

real
03-19-2007, 04:53 PM
I read the article and it made some interesting points. I certainly don't think someone should be labeled a thug for the way the dress. Or talk. Or their race.

But, Porter & Jones were labeled as thugs for their actions. Don't want to be called a thug? Pretty simple solution. Stop acting like one.

I understand that...

And My original comment just stemmed from seeing the word thug...and it really didn't have anything to do with a specific situation...

My thoughts are moreso along the lines of the article I posted, but I guess my thoughts weren't properly conveyed...

Mightymike
03-20-2007, 07:25 PM
i've been reading over this whole thing and i've come to the conclusion that xtru is definitely right. The word thug seems to become more and more of a racial specific word.

kastofsna....your opinions are what i like to call non sequitir.

you say "thuggish" means a very aggressive behavior, and always in a group. this is why these NBA fights are called "thuggish" because it's a bunch of dudes ganging up and throwing hands."

then you say "the difference is, in baseball and hockey, these incidents are pretty much part of the game. they don't call a bench-clearing brawl "thuggish behavior" because it's almost anticipated after a few too many pitches inside."

What's the difference between too many pitches inside and too many flagrant fouls near the basket?.....or better yet too many late hits on the quaterback?


Why is it that the players in sports with little or no thuggish behavior are degraded and presented as thugs when the players in sports that confrontations occur more are seen as "part of the game" and aren't seen in the same light?
It looks like a racial thing to me.

you said "in basketball and football, there's no unwritten "allowance" of any violence at all. when there's a fight in either sport, it's regarded as a horrible unsportsmanlike event. "

^Why would it be viewed as a "horrible unsportsmanlike event" when basketball contains more legal contact than baseball, and football involves more legal collisons than hockey?

gwallaia
03-20-2007, 08:36 PM
Well, so much for that little slogan. "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas."

edo783
03-20-2007, 08:53 PM
According to an on-air guy here in Denver, he and a bud were there just a couple of tables away and Porter cleaned Levi's clock, in fact he kicked it a couple of time when Jones was on the carpet and Jones was bleeding big time when they took him out of the casino. Wasn't just a little dust up as it is being made out to be as it seems about 6 "Real big guys" were duking it out in the casino. Took security nearly 2 min. to get there and the guy that arrived was about 5'7" and almost 155 lbs. Had to wait for more troops. So says a guy that was supposidly there.

keyfro
03-20-2007, 10:51 PM
wouldn't surprise me...porter isn't the type to take it easy on or off the field...the dude's a brawler...and if he wasn't playing football i could easily see him doing the pro boxing thing...maybe even ultimate fighting...levi jones is another story