PDA

View Full Version : Top Ten Free Safeties in the NFL??


thunderkyss
03-19-2007, 12:14 AM
Well... The NFL Draft is coming. I see many people are getting pretty excited about the possibility of the Houston Texans drafting Laron Landry. Personally, I think that is high for a Safety.

Michael Huff, and Donte Whitner were two safeties drafted in the top ten of 2006, #7 & #8 overall. Anyone know how they did?? Were they "instant" impact??

Huff signed a 5 year deal, $15MM guaranteed. Whitner signed for something under $14MM guaranteed over 5 years.

My Question. Who were the top ten safeties in '06. & how much better were they than our safeties?? Let's say Laron can play at a top ten Safety level... is there that much difference in "production" from the safety position to justify using our #1 overall??

There's a CB that should be available around the #8... There's a RB that might be available at #8, There's a LT, a DE, and a DT who should be available around the #8 position. Maybe even a franchise QB...

thunderkyss
03-19-2007, 12:20 AM
One more thing....

We gave up less passing TDs than Washington, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Dallas, San Fran, Green Bay, Cincy, Tennessee, Seattle, Miami, Detroit, & Carolina.

We gave up less passing ypg than Minnesota, Cincy, Arizona, Atlanta, NYGiants, Tennessee, San Fran, Detroit, Dallas & Washington.

Reddevil63
03-19-2007, 12:25 AM
Flipped around, that means we gave up more passing yards than 21 teams. FS is in definite need of an upgrade, whether that comes from Landry or a later pick, or someone in house. Of course the argument can be made that if we get another good DE and/or DT the pass rush will improve and the secondary will also look alot better.

I dont have any stats to answer your question with, Im just talking :wheel:

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 12:39 AM
I think oakland has the #3 overall defense in the league. how much of that is attributed to huff...i don't know and am not going to speculate...he is also a SS i believe.

our secondary is in desperate need. we HAVE to address either FS or CB on the 1st day of the draft. if faggins stays our #2 cb then we have to get a true FS. if cc is our fs then we have to get a shutdown CB to have opposite dunta.

I'm a big supporter for Landry. there are always pros and cons to any player. Quinn could be a great pick if there because he would be our next franchise QB lol. there are plenty of great players to have at 8...no need to move up.

one arguement for the drafting of Landry is this.

-Our secondary is pretty darn bad.
-Landry is the best FS in the draft. Is good in coverage, very fast, can really hit hard, tackles great, leader in the secondary, and a very smart football player.
-Landry is very fast..plays fast in pads...and blitzes very well. he can disguise his blitzes and get to the qb in a hurry, this would be great against peyton and vince.
-Teams can throw fairly easily against us because they have time to throw and their WR/TE/RB's can get open pretty easily.
-one way to stop that is tighter coverage which we would achieve. the other way is to get more pressure on the qb by the dline.
-this can be achieved and is typically called a coverage sack.
-with the help of landry patrolling the secondary, particularly helping faggins, the qb will have a harder time finding an open player and will have to hold onto the ball a little longer.
-this allows our d-line that extra second or two to put more pressure causing a sack/incompletion/interception. or in other words a bad decision by the qb...a hurry.

I think landry would be a great pick for those reasons. our defense really started coming together as the season progressed and thats a great sign. i think landry would help out a lot...great against the run, great at disguising blitzes to rush the QB, and good in coverage. This would allow each position to do their part and let Dunta finally have someone else good in the secondary. I think Defensive Coordinators dream of a player like this and Offensive Coordinators would have nightmares when gameplanning against us with Landry, Dunta, Demeco, and Mario.

Maddict5
03-19-2007, 10:01 AM
i know what you're saying but most of the best pass defences have great coverage safeties (doesnt really matter about fs/ss..depends on how the teams play them)

ravens-reed
colts-sanders
raiders-huff
bills-whitner
jets-rhodes
eagles-dawkins
etc

Mr teX
03-19-2007, 12:02 PM
i know what you're saying but most of the best pass defences have great coverage safeties (doesnt really matter about fs/ss..depends on how the teams play them)

ravens-reed
colts-sanders
raiders-huff
bills-whitner
jets-rhodes
eagles-dawkins
etc

Adrian Wilson?
Sean Taylor?
Polamalu?

AustinJB
03-19-2007, 12:16 PM
Michael Huff, and Donte Whitner were two safeties drafted in the top ten of 2006, #7 & #8 overall. Anyone know how they did?? Were they "instant" impact??



One more thing....

We gave up less passing TDs than Washington, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Dallas, San Fran, Green Bay, Cincy, Tennessee, Seattle, Miami, Detroit, & Carolina.

We gave up less passing ypg than Minnesota, Cincy, Arizona, Atlanta, NYGiants, Tennessee, San Fran, Detroit, Dallas & Washington.

This should give you somewhat of an answer to your question, "Were they 'instant' impact?"

The respective teams for Huff & Whitner, Raiders & Bills, considered pass defense enough of a problem to use a top 10 pick on a FS. They were obviously impact enought to not be in your list of the worst pass defense teams. I'm not saying they turned it around themselves, but they were definitely a major component...w/in one year.

jerek
03-19-2007, 12:27 PM
One more thing....

We gave up less passing TDs than Washington, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Dallas, San Fran, Green Bay, Cincy, Tennessee, Seattle, Miami, Detroit, & Carolina.

We gave up less passing ypg than Minnesota, Cincy, Arizona, Atlanta, NYGiants, Tennessee, San Fran, Detroit, Dallas & Washington.

Not to mention that we were trailing in many games and thus on defense against a run-oriented offense for much of the time. Doesn't negate your point but it's worth consideration.

Please_Evolve
03-19-2007, 01:12 PM
http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/OAK

It has Huff listed at a SS and Schweigert as the FS. I have a friend who is a HUGE raiders fan here. Kind of opened my eyes to the way Schweigert plays and he's really one of the more underated FS in the NFL. Reminds me of the way Kerry Rhodes is. I think Huff was also injured a few games as well. I'd also like to say in that defense they've been stock piling talent there especially at the corner position and it's paying off. Aside from Warren Sapp that is a YOUNG defense. IMO if they can get their offense together that will be a scary team.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/BUF

Whitner notched 107 tackles and 1 pick. Ko simpson did pretty well too it seems getting 76 tackles a sack and two picks.


In comparison : http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/HOU

Our starting Corner Dunta Robinson had more tackles then both safety starters.

Ed Reed and Landry: http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/BAL

Keep in mind in a 3-4 defense the linebackers keep things ahead of the Safeties with those stats.

Dawkins and Constadine : http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/PHI

While the tackle numbers aren't as high when the Defense needed a boost or the team a big play Dawkins seemed to make it.

thunderkyss
03-19-2007, 04:11 PM
Not to mention that we were trailing in many games and thus on defense against a run-oriented offense for much of the time. Doesn't negate your point but it's worth consideration.

Good Point.

Please_Evolve. Personally, I think a safety with crazy tackle stats means that particular team isn't very good at stopping the run, without a lot of support from the safeties. I don't have a problem with safeties helping in run support, but when 107 tackles on the 28th ranked run defense doesn't translate to "good" for me.

It's pretty danged impressive from a rookie nontheless, but really, a safety shouldn't have that many tackles.

Austin JB..... Good point. Mr. Tex... the guys you have listed have produced comparable tackles, sacks, FF & INTs as our Safeties. Nobody is saying those guys need to be replaced. If the guys you mentioned were playing on our team, and produced the numbers they produced, would we be wanting to replace them as well??

How much of our safeties production is dependant on Scheme?? How much of Reeds success is due to McAllister & Ray Lewis??

Roy Williams has 5 INTs, but he is not very good in coverage.

real
03-19-2007, 04:25 PM
Good Point.

Please_Evolve. Personally, I think a safety with crazy tackle stats means that particular team isn't very good at stopping the run, without a lot of support from the safeties. I don't have a problem with safeties helping in run support, but when 107 tackles on the 28th ranked run defense doesn't translate to "good" for me.

It's pretty danged impressive from a rookie nontheless, but really, a safety shouldn't have that many tackles.

Austin JB..... Good point. Mr. Tex... the guys you have listed have produced comparable tackles, sacks, FF & INTs as our Safeties. Nobody is saying those guys need to be replaced. If the guys you mentioned were playing on our team, and produced the numbers they produced, would we be wanting to replace them as well??

How much of our safeties production is dependant on Scheme?? How much of Reeds success is due to McAllister & Ray Lewis??

Roy Williams has 5 INTs, but he is not very good in coverage.

C.C Brown doesn't have instincts like those other guys...not even Roy Williams...

I've seen those other safeties arrive at the reciever at the same time as the ball plenty of times either making the INT, or the tackle...

It seems C.C is always late to get into the picture...always trailing...

Sure those others are helped by talent around them, but it's not like C.C was playing with a bunch of scrubs...He wasn't good enough last year and we could definitely use an upgrade there...

Do I think C.C was the weak spot? No...IMHO, WLB and WDE are where we need the biggest upgrade...

thunderkyss
03-19-2007, 05:05 PM
Of the guys playing in our secondary, I like Glenn & CC the best.

Faggins, then Sanders...

Dunta would probably make a good safety, but his small frame scares me to put him there....... but, he plays like a safety anyway... plays much bigger than he is. I just watched the New England game again, & he owned big 'ol Corey Dillion several times.

But I don't think he's a very good corner.

In this draft, I think if I had to chose between Nelson & Landry... I'd go with Nelson.

If I think I can get Houston in the second, I'd take Peterson for sure, and role the dice on the safety.

TexanRoadrunner
03-19-2007, 07:08 PM
Just remember the Colts were a horrible D in the regular season.

Bob Sanders makes an amazing difference to that team. Not only with his play but the way he can inspire the defense.

Year before the Steelers...Troy Polamalu was there to be the inspiration.

To me it is imperative to have a playmaking safety.

Clash_Fan3605
03-19-2007, 07:12 PM
Adrian Wilson?
Sean Taylor?
Polamalu?

I think Wilson & Polamalu are SS... I agree on Taylor being a top 10 FS though, somewhere like 8-10.

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 07:29 PM
I think Wilson & Polamalu are SS... I agree on Taylor being a top 10 FS though, somewhere like 8-10.

sean taylor is a SS too, right?

point is a big time S can change the whole atmosphere of the Defense, I think the relation to the colts defense in the playoffs is a good one.

AlbinoRat
03-19-2007, 08:44 PM
Neither of those safeties were considered to be in the same league as sean taylor when they were coming out as opposed to when he was. Like him or not, S.T. was an immediate impact and still is a bad a. Who else lays the wood in the pro bowl? Riddle me that. Landry and taylor both play tough hard hitting football, which allows them to be impact players on what ever team they play on.

YoungTexanFan
03-19-2007, 09:26 PM
Whitner played SS, because the most talented FS in the entire draft last year was snagged in the 4th. Ko Simpson is the best S on that Bills team. Huff is a bit of a hybrid, and I believe he played a little nickle in Oak. as well. He is a middle of the road FS, and an above average SS at this point but is improving as he should. Ko Simpson was my top rated FS last year, and I would still take him over OD regardless, because Simpson is better at his position that OD IMHO.

HJam72
03-19-2007, 09:29 PM
Whitner played SS, because the most talented FS in the entire draft last year was snagged in the 4th. Ko Simpson is the best S on that Bills team. Huff is a bit of a hybrid, and I believe he played a little nickle in Oak. as well. He is a middle of the road FS, and an above average SS at this point but is improving as he should. Ko Simpson was my top rated FS last year, and I would still take him over OD regardless, because Simpson is better at his position that OD IMHO.

I don't know how Simpson played his rookie year, but I did want him in the 4th really bad. I do remember that. At least OD did turn out well.

Please_Evolve
03-19-2007, 11:49 PM
Good Point.

Please_Evolve. Personally, I think a safety with crazy tackle stats means that particular team isn't very good at stopping the run, without a lot of support from the safeties. I don't have a problem with safeties helping in run support, but when 107 tackles on the 28th ranked run defense doesn't translate to "good" for me.

It's pretty danged impressive from a rookie nontheless, but really, a safety shouldn't have that many tackles.

Austin JB..... Good point. Mr. Tex... the guys you have listed have produced comparable tackles, sacks, FF & INTs as our Safeties. Nobody is saying those guys need to be replaced. If the guys you mentioned were playing on our team, and produced the numbers they produced, would we be wanting to replace them as well??

How much of our safeties production is dependant on Scheme?? How much of Reeds success is due to McAllister & Ray Lewis??

Roy Williams has 5 INTs, but he is not very good in coverage.

Good point As well. I didn't watch many buffalo games...in fact i watched one too many.

I got the impression the offense spurtered quite a bit and the defense was on the field more as far as buffalo goes with inflated numbers for both safeties there.

I thought Huff was a fast SS out of UT, agreed YTF and yeah he played nickle a bit in Oakland. I thought for a while he had an ankle sprain that kept in in limited action for a game or two.

Agreed TK on Roy Williams. Good SS but a liability in coverage. If griffin or Merriweather fell to them in the scond i would not be suprised at all that they pick one of those two up. FS is that D's weak link right now.

As far as Ed Reed goes ithought he solidfied that secondary when they chose him. My memory fails me when it comes to who played opposite of McAllister when they drafted Reed. But yeah when you have Ray Lewis anchoring the middle of the field you will look pretty good.

real
03-20-2007, 08:26 AM
In this draft, I think if I had to chose between Nelson & Landry... I'd go with Nelson.


I 100% agree...

If we want to improve our pass defense Nelson is the way to go...

TwinSisters
03-20-2007, 08:42 AM
If you look at the big play stat columns from last year: 20+ 40+ passes and runs.

You will find us at the top of the league. How much of that has to do with play calling and field position might be something else.

FFs, Sacks, INTs, number of completions-completion% is where the defense really sticks out poorly.

HuttoKarl
03-20-2007, 09:18 AM
I think oakland has the #3 overall defense in the league. how much of that is attributed to huff...i don't know and am not going to speculate...he is also a SS i believe.

our secondary is in desperate need. we HAVE to address either FS or CB on the 1st day of the draft. if faggins stays our #2 cb then we have to get a true FS. if cc is our fs then we have to get a shutdown CB to have opposite dunta.

[/B]


I'd like to get Landry AND a better CB and put Faggins in on Nickel situations.

Gman84
03-20-2007, 09:22 AM
sean taylor is a SS too, right?

point is a big time S can change the whole atmosphere of the Defense, I think the relation to the colts defense in the playoffs is a good one.

Taylor plays free safety for the Redskins but is better suited to SS IMO. He is a very active, aggressive player but bites to hard on fakes and gets drawn in my QB's looking him off. He has the talent to be all world but goes for big hits and big plays rather than just doing the safe thing.

Mr teX
03-20-2007, 09:24 AM
Taylor plays free safety for the Redskins but is better suited to SS IMO. He is a very active, aggressive player but bites to hard on fakes and gets drawn in my QB's looking him off. He has the talent to be all world but goes for big hits and big plays rather than just doing the safe thing.

Sounds like Nelson to me.

real
03-20-2007, 09:31 AM
Sounds like Nelson to me.

Sounds nothing like Nelson...

SESupergenius
03-20-2007, 12:26 PM
2 things I'd start off when formulating a team; Offensive line and Safeties. We've have not had a strong showing in either for the last 5 years. I'd take a game breaking safety in the top 10 with no problem.

Roy Williams was selected #8 in 2002. Troy Polamalu went #16 in 2003. Sean Taylor went #5 in 2004. Michael Huff and Donte Whitner went #7 and 8 last year. None of those players are considered wasted picks or reaches.

We totally have a bad mindset on this team that the "flashy" positions like QB, WR RB and a sack making LB are our 1st priority.

Mr teX
03-20-2007, 12:35 PM
Sounds nothing like Nelson...

His highlight reels that have been posted on here show otherwise. Lunging at guys trying to make the big & not wraping up, that's not going to get it in the NFL, you've got to play with more discipline.

I know he's you're guy, but to act like the bolded i highlighted earlier is not him;........................well you're in denial.

Exithios
03-20-2007, 12:37 PM
2 things I'd start off when formulating a team; Offensive line and Safeties. We've have not had a strong showing in either for the last 5 years. I'd take a game breaking safety in the top 10 with no problem.

Roy Williams was selected #8 in 2002. Troy Polamalu went #16 in 2003. Sean Taylor went #5 in 2004. Michael Huff and Donte Whitner went #7 and 8 last year. None of those players are considered wasted picks or reaches.

We totally have a bad mindset on this team that the "flashy" positions like QB, WR RB and a sack making LB are our 1st priority.

I agree with what you are saying here, but I beleive the mindset is:

A) The majority of the posters here want Carr gone, considering the lack of FA talent left in this position that would make BQ the clear choice.

B) We have Green and Dayne in the backfield, but if AD is available at #8 then odds are he will be the BPA. (considering Gaines Adams, JaMarcus Russell, Joe Thomas, etc. doesn't drop to us.)

C) If the suspected top 7 are gone, then who would be BPA? There would be a number of people here such as Okoye, Brown, and Landry left and any one of them would be considered top 10 talent, that is where we would draft by need which I am convinced that it would be Brown or Landry.

I, for one, would love Landry at #8 and there is no doubt in my mind that he would be an immediate impact from day 1.

real
03-20-2007, 12:40 PM
His highlight reels that have been posted on here show otherwise. Lunging at guys trying to make the big & not wraping up, that's not going to get it in the NFL, you've got to play with more discipline.

I know he's you're guy, but to act like the bolded i highlighted earlier is not him;........................well you're in denial.

LOL @ judging a guy from a highlight film....

That's what highlight films are for...To show the big hits, and INT's....

IMHO, you just haven't seen him play much, because otherwise you'd know that what you highlighted earlier isn't him...

Second Honeymoon
03-20-2007, 01:43 PM
Well... The NFL Draft is coming. I see many people are getting pretty excited about the possibility of the Houston Texans drafting Laron Landry. Personally, I think that is high for a Safety.

Michael Huff, and Donte Whitner were two safeties drafted in the top ten of 2006, #7 & #8 overall. Anyone know how they did?? Were they "instant" impact??

Huff signed a 5 year deal, $15MM guaranteed. Whitner signed for something under $14MM guaranteed over 5 years.

My Question. Who were the top ten safeties in '06. & how much better were they than our safeties?? Let's say Laron can play at a top ten Safety level... is there that much difference in "production" from the safety position to justify using our #1 overall??

There's a CB that should be available around the #8... There's a RB that might be available at #8, There's a LT, a DE, and a DT who should be available around the #8 position. Maybe even a franchise QB...

TK is the voice of reason and hardly surprising. you DONT draft a Safety in the early 1st Round. It's like a Man Law or something. It rarely works out enough. There is just too much cheap quality Safety talent out there. We have just been cursed with Asserley so long that we havent had an opportunity to get one.

Essentially, you are then making your rookie safety your 2nd or 3rd highest paid player on your defense and you didnt improve other areas of need that are FARRRRR harder to come by. We have a huge hole at CB. It is gaping, some would say we dont even have one good corner. The problem is that there are no CBs worth the #8 pick and there arent any safeties worth the #8 pick either. Landry is great, trust me, I love his pass rushing skills and family pedigree. But you can find good safeties later in the draft. As good as Landry? No. But we can definitely find a good safety in the later rounds much easier than finding a cornerback late..its just simple supply and demand logic. If we can trade down to #14ish and get Landry, Hall, or Nelson, and another first day draft pick we will be sitting pretty with a young defense and a potential gamebreaker at DE, LB, and FS or CB.
draft the BPA in the 1st Round...do NOT base your pick on need again, Texans. don't get burned again by pulling a Casserley on draft day.

If they get Landry, I won't be pissed as long as a Johnson, Peterson, Thomas, Quinn, or Russell are not available. If they have Landry ranked ahead of the DEs and DTs in the draft, I am fine with that.....its just a very risky spot to pick a safety...more risky than drafting a QB and with less payoff

we need help at safety, any moron could tell you that. we just dont want to do what happened last year and let 'need' supercede every other factor....that is if we are still buying that 'signability' was not an issue last year...it better not be an issue this year

YoungTexanFan
03-20-2007, 01:48 PM
2 things I'd start off when formulating a team; Offensive line and Safeties. We've have not had a strong showing in either for the last 5 years. I'd take a game breaking safety in the top 10 with no problem.

Roy Williams was selected #8 in 2002. Troy Polamalu went #16 in 2003. Sean Taylor went #5 in 2004. Michael Huff and Donte Whitner went #7 and 8 last year. None of those players are considered wasted picks or reaches.

We totally have a bad mindset on this team that the "flashy" positions like QB, WR RB and a sack making LB are our 1st priority.

Whittner was a pretty big reach at #8. He was a SS, and value isn't as high for them. Buffalo got wow by some numbers and reached. He would have been good value in the 20's.

Second Honeymoon
03-20-2007, 01:56 PM
2 things I'd start off when formulating a team; Offensive line and Safeties. We've have not had a strong showing in either for the last 5 years. I'd take a game breaking safety in the top 10 with no problem.

Roy Williams was selected #8 in 2002. Troy Polamalu went #16 in 2003. Sean Taylor went #5 in 2004. Michael Huff and Donte Whitner went #7 and 8 last year. None of those players are considered wasted picks or reaches.

We totally have a bad mindset on this team that the "flashy" positions like QB, WR RB and a sack making LB are our 1st priority.


wow, i find myself disagreeing with you on another topic. well i agree that none of those picks were wasted the only pick that has really worked out so far was Troy and he was picked #16 which is where i would slot the DB crop this year. I am not saying Landry/Nelson/Hall wouldnt help the team immensely, but not enough value at #8 in my opinion. We can't draft based on need in the 1st Round. We gotta go with value and I think we will all be happier in the end.

Taylor has mad game but has he made a difference? Roy is pretty much a liability as any real Cowboys fan will tell you. Whitner was a total reach where he was picked but has actually done pretty well and Marv Levy got off the hotseat. The Whitner pick was widely regarded as the most out of line pick in the 1st Round after our choosing of Mario. Whitner played well and silenced some of the critics although he was picked too early even with his good performance. Huff plays for the Raiders so the jury is out there. I bet they wish they would have taken Leinart instead of Huff though....no doubt.

Troy is great and was an integral part of a championship squad. If you want to argue Landry at #8, use him as your point of reference but remember he was chosen much later than #8. They have a lot of similarities too. It should be an interesting late April.

Mr teX
03-20-2007, 02:36 PM
LOL @ judging a guy from a highlight film....

That's what highlight films are for...To show the big hits, and INT's....

IMHO, you just haven't seen him play much, because otherwise you'd know that what you highlighted earlier isn't him...

I can always count on Xtru...

it's too easy sometimes.

Mr teX
03-20-2007, 02:43 PM
wow, i find myself disagreeing with you on another topic. well i agree that none of those picks were wasted the only pick that has really worked out so far was Troy and he was picked #16 which is where i would slot the DB crop this year. I am not saying Landry/Nelson/Hall wouldnt help the team immensely, but not enough value at #8 in my opinion. We can't draft based on need in the 1st Round. We gotta go with value and I think we will all be happier in the end.

Taylor has mad game but has he made a difference? Roy is pretty much a liability as any real Cowboys fan will tell you. Whitner was a total reach where he was picked but has actually done pretty well and Marv Levy got off the hotseat. The Whitner pick was widely regarded as the most out of line pick in the 1st Round after our choosing of Mario. Whitner played well and silenced some of the critics although he was picked too early even with his good performance. Huff plays for the Raiders so the jury is out there. I bet they wish they would have taken Leinart instead of Huff though....no doubt.

Troy is great and was an integral part of a championship squad. If you want to argue Landry at #8, use him as your point of reference but remember he was chosen much later than #8. They have a lot of similarities too. It should be an interesting late April.


I think there is too much emphasis on this right here. I mean a great player is a great player & it's something that we seriously lack on our squad. Outside of fullback, & after the top 5 players anyone should be game to be picked.

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2007, 02:55 PM
I think we just need to simply look at these questions when making our 1st overall pick

1) Who do we have rated the highest of the players remaining.
2) Which player would make the biggest impact for our team next season.
3) Which player would make the biggest impact for out team in years 2-5.
4) Which player would make the biggest impact for our team 5+ years.
5) Which player do I want to be the next piece of foundation for our offense or defense that we will build around (ie Andre, Mario, Demeco).
6) How deep is the draft in these particular positions and what are options in later rounds/FA.
7) How would this player effect the other players ability (on field) and what would there locker room presence be like?
8) How risky of a pick is this player?
9) How does this player fit this team and what we're trying to accomplish?
10) What is this player's work ethic, ie. training, studying, film, working hard, character.

Well there are 10 questions to ask and that doesn't even ask if he's a player at a NEED spot.

If You find yourself answering Landry more than some of the other players...then he should be the pick...If it's not...then the pick should be someone else imo.

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2007, 02:57 PM
That last post should really be in the draft discussion so my bad.

Point is some think 8 is too high for FS. If the FS is the answer to most of those questions...then 8 probably isn't too high.

real
03-20-2007, 03:44 PM
IMO, we don't have the luxury of picking for need, and passing on players because we think we have a position that needs to be filled sooner...


Whatever player we deem as BPA that's who we need to take...whether it be a kicker to a long snapper to a FS....

Either that, or trade down.

SESupergenius
03-20-2007, 06:42 PM
wow, i find myself disagreeing with you on another topic. well i agree that none of those picks were wasted the only pick that has really worked out so far was Troy and he was picked #16 which is where i would slot the DB crop this year. I am not saying Landry/Nelson/Hall wouldnt help the team immensely, but not enough value at #8 in my opinion. We can't draft based on need in the 1st Round. We gotta go with value and I think we will all be happier in the end.

Taylor has mad game but has he made a difference? Roy is pretty much a liability as any real Cowboys fan will tell you. Whitner was a total reach where he was picked but has actually done pretty well and Marv Levy got off the hotseat. The Whitner pick was widely regarded as the most out of line pick in the 1st Round after our choosing of Mario. Whitner played well and silenced some of the critics although he was picked too early even with his good performance. Huff plays for the Raiders so the jury is out there. I bet they wish they would have taken Leinart instead of Huff though....no doubt.

Troy is great and was an integral part of a championship squad. If you want to argue Landry at #8, use him as your point of reference but remember he was chosen much later than #8. They have a lot of similarities too. It should be an interesting late April.

Well, all I can do is present a solid case for you, you are the one that has to look at the facts. And the fact is, the Cowboys love Roy Williams and he is the heart of the defense. The liability you are talking about is the FS, Roy plays the SS. If you want to look back at the drafts then Troy Polamalu has to be way underrated at #16 considering the success he's had. Sean Taylor is a game changer. Michael Huff was part of a top 10 defense, up from one of the leagues worse. Donte Whitner has come into his own and when teamed with Clements, they are a tough duo to deal with.

Fact is, all those guys were taken in the 1st round and yet we've not even addressed the safety position in 5 years. Facts are facts.

SESupergenius
03-20-2007, 06:48 PM
IMO, we don't have the luxury of picking for need, and passing on players because we think we have a position that needs to be filled sooner...


Whatever player we deem as BPA that's who we need to take...whether it be a kicker to a long snapper to a FS....

Either that, or trade down.

This is what gets us in trouble. The urgency. Somehow there is a panicking feeling that we need to get player "X" this year. There should be 3-4 positions that we "need" and those should be addressed with a good pick, 1st or 2nd round. Our needs are OT, SS, CB, and OG. No 1st round picks for any of those positions.

thunderkyss
03-20-2007, 09:20 PM
Well, all I can do is present a solid case for you, you are the one that has to look at the facts. And the fact is, the Cowboys love Roy Williams and he is the heart of the defense.

Fact is the Cowboys also know that Roy is a liability in coverage.

The liability you are talking about is the FS, Roy plays the SS.

The Cowboys say the same thing about their safeties, as we say about ours. Their good in run support, but are liabilities in the passing game.

If you want to look back at the drafts then Troy Polamalu has to be way underrated at #16 considering the success he's had.

This year, Polamalu didn't look much different than CC Brown. Now when that Defense was kicking but, and OCs were worried about Joey Porter, and James Farrier, & Clark Haggans to worry about yeah, Polamalu looked super human.


Fact is, all those guys were taken in the 1st round and yet we've not even addressed the safety position in 5 years. Facts are facts.

Dallas hasn't won a play-off game in a decade. Part of the problem may be that their best defensive player is a safety.

the Steelers have a lot of playmakers on defense.

Oakland hasn't won a pla... do I really need to go there??

Buffalo, Washington... again, If all we have to worry about is their Safeties, we'll be okay. Nothing to worry about here.

thunderkyss
03-20-2007, 09:28 PM
This is what gets us in trouble. The urgency. Somehow there is a panicking feeling that we need to get player "X" this year. There should be 3-4 positions that we "need" and those should be addressed with a good pick, 1st or 2nd round. Our needs are OT, SS, CB, and OG. No 1st round picks for any of those positions.

These guys (http://www.thehogs.net/Draft/) have Leon Hall rated as the 10th best player in this draft.

These guys (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=64&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=124&yr=2007) have him rated as the 6th best player in this draft.

I've seen many drafts with Hall going in the top 10. IF he's there, it makes more sense to take him over Landry.

It makes more sense to take Peterson over Landry.

It makes more sense to take Quinn over Landry.

It makes more sense to take Anderson or Adams than Landry.

If Levi was there, I can understand the delima. If Marshawn was there, I'd go Landry. Carriker... Ginn... I can see the delima.

TwinSisters
03-20-2007, 10:45 PM
It makes more sense to take Quinn over Landry.

whoa!! Let's not get crazy now.

I just read Schector's latest report... looks like the Cowboys might pick up Hamlin.

And he also made a really good point about Quinn. If he is worth something, Romeo should get the scoop from Charlie. So if the Browns skip on him, that might mean something.

Please_Evolve
03-20-2007, 11:16 PM
whoa!! Let's not get crazy now.

I just read Schector's latest report... looks like the Cowboys might pick up Hamlin.

And he also made a really good point about Quinn. If he is worth something, Romeo should get the scoop from Charlie. So if the Browns skip on him, that might mean something.

Actually..it probably means nothing.

Here's what i think about Quinn. Probably the best pure QB prospect since Palmer. IMO better then the big 3 last year. Stronger arm then Leinart but same style offense with less to work with. More presence then Vince in the pocket..doesn't mean he has ALL the intangibles...he's a lot less raw then vince. Played under a larger spotlight and for a longer time then Cutler.

People have had Brady Quinn shoved down their throats via the ND hype machine and ESPN. But take the golden dome off and think about it.

I think he'll be a guy that has his entire game nit-picked and analyzed til people talk themselves out of drafting him. The team that ignores that and selects him is going to geta hell of a QB prospect.

TwinSisters
03-21-2007, 12:42 AM
could be... but we can't carry on too much about it here.

The Pencil Neck
03-21-2007, 01:20 AM
Not to mention that we were trailing in many games and thus on defense against a run-oriented offense for much of the time. Doesn't negate your point but it's worth consideration.

I don't know how much I buy into that assertion. After the first 3 games (where we were absolutely torched), we were in most games. The last half of the season, we were 4-4 and really only out of 2 games.

Over the course of the season, we had 27.9 rushing attempts per game against us. That's actually relatively low. The most rushing attempts per game were against the Raiders, Colts, Browns, Titans, Buccs, and Lions. (Which makes sense.)

whiskeyrbl
03-21-2007, 04:58 AM
One more thing....

We gave up less passing TDs than Washington, Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Dallas, San Fran, Green Bay, Cincy, Tennessee, Seattle, Miami, Detroit, & Carolina.

We gave up less passing ypg than Minnesota, Cincy, Arizona, Atlanta, NYGiants, Tennessee, San Fran, Detroit, Dallas & Washington.

Thats because we were usually behind and they were running the ball.