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Wolf
03-18-2007, 07:08 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6571514?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=23

i'd be ticked if we didn't trade down in this scenario esp with Landry and Peterson still there at #8


that is plain charliesque

HuttoKarl
03-18-2007, 07:39 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6571514?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=23

i'd be ticked if we didn't trade down in this scenario esp with Landry and Peterson still there at #8


that is plain charliesque

That mock is forever to be named "corky" and is destined to drool over a vat of fry grease.

If Peterson's there, we're getting him. Bob McNair sez so....just not publically.

Texas_Thrill
03-18-2007, 07:43 PM
why would you be upset? he's obviously the 2nd best OT in the draft and the fall off after him is so great its not even worth mentioning.

considering our o-line he would be the equivalent of taking landry for the secondary.

Wolf
03-18-2007, 07:52 PM
why would you be upset? he's obviously the 2nd best OT in the draft and the fall off after him is so great its not even worth mentioning.

considering our o-line he would be the equivalent of taking landry for the secondary.

i think for the talent that is left we could trade down

Texas_Thrill
03-18-2007, 08:26 PM
i think for the talent that is left we could trade down

honestly this is not a talented draft after about 3 players.

Unless we get CJ,AP, or JT i feel like anyone we take at 8 in most other years would be a mid to late first rounder at best.

At this point i'm more in favor of going for the gusto and moving up but highly doubt that will happen.

Beyond that though staying at 8 and getting a possible franchise LT. How can we really be mad at that considering we've NEVER had one???? The battle is won up front and given we are about to ask an over the hill Green to be something he hasn't been in years. I'd think it would make sense for us to give him the biggest holes possible.

kastofsna
03-18-2007, 08:46 PM
for all the complaning about the o-line you guys have had over the years, this would be a beautiful pick.

beerlover
03-18-2007, 09:16 PM
for all the complaning about the o-line you guys have had over the years, this would be a beautiful pick.

heres to that bro :toast2:

Wolf
03-18-2007, 09:19 PM
for all the complaning about the o-line you guys have had over the years, this would be a beautiful pick.

you probably right, and I am hoping Spencer can come back.

for LT is the bermuda triangle for the Texans

freedoggy77
03-18-2007, 09:59 PM
what is this fool smoking? AD falling to 12...as fat joe says CRACK CRACK CRACK...btw i tried to post this but my server messed up so I can't post new threads...i've been trying for 2 days lol

Blake
03-19-2007, 12:07 AM
for all the complaning about the o-line you guys have had over the years, this would be a beautiful pick.

Well personally I think we are set at tackle. With Jordan Black, a starter at LT backing up Spencer, and Salaam backing up Winston. I guess the only question is will Spencer be ready.

I think we could use a guard like Blalock, or Grubbs in the 2nd round, really, really bad.

Please_Evolve
03-19-2007, 12:15 AM
Well personally I think we are set at tackle. With Jordan Black, a starter at LT backing up Spencer, and Salaam backing up Winston. I guess the only question is will Spencer be ready.

I think we could use a guard like Blalock, or Grubbs in the 2nd round, really, really bad.


Other way around IMO, we are set at guard.

Jordan Black is an insurance policy incase 1. We don't for some reason go T in the first two selections 2. In case Spencer doesn't come back healthy.

Good left tackles aren't let go and specially, though i like the price we signed him for, not that price. I like Winston at RT though and before the injury it did look like we had our bookend T's. I do hope Kalil falls into the second for us though as well :D

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 12:55 AM
I think we still need help along the oline. Kalil is a must for me at C..to continue the youth along the line and having a C than can actually play it.

I don't see us really needing to spend a 1st round pick on LT/RT with the amount of holes we have elsewhere. I think we can get a better player than Levi at 8 that will fit a big need. if spencer can be healthy next season we'll be fine on the oline...not great but fine...still in need of help each year though.

BSofA04
03-19-2007, 01:39 AM
Ole Miss,
I like your signature. As a Longhorn grad, it just feels strange that I want an OU guy on my team. But if you're nickname is AD, what the hell. We won anyways. Hook em!

Specnatz
03-19-2007, 02:06 AM
Does anyone really think the oo-line is the corner stone of this team.


Get real, lets develop a line on both sides of the ball to make this a winning team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exithios
03-19-2007, 07:16 AM
for all the complaning about the o-line you guys have had over the years, this would be a beautiful pick.

Edit: Was a little hot headed in my first post. I don't have a problem with drafting Brown in the 1st, I do have a problem with drafting Brown in the top 10. Any other year he would be 2nd to 3rd round talent yet this year so many seem to see him as a top 10 pick just because he is the 2nd best OLT in THIS years draft.

beerlover
03-19-2007, 09:19 AM
Edit: Was a little hot headed in my first post. I don't have a problem with drafting Brown in the 1st, I do have a problem with drafting Brown in the top 10. Any other year he would be 2nd to 3rd round talent yet this year so many seem to see him as a top 10 pick just because he is the 2nd best OLT in THIS years draft.

Levi Brown is as good if not a better prospect than Jordan Gross (#8th overall 03) & Jammal Brown (#13 overall 05) so take that range 8-13 roughly as fair market value. its not such a huge reach @ #8 :)

bigbrewster2000
03-19-2007, 09:24 AM
I think we still need help along the oline. Kalil is a must for me at C..to continue the youth along the line and having a C than can actually play it.

I don't see us really needing to spend a 1st round pick on LT/RT with the amount of holes we have elsewhere. I think we can get a better player than Levi at 8 that will fit a big need. if spencer can be healthy next season we'll be fine on the oline...not great but fine...still in need of help each year though.

You can get a cheaper Center in Dan Mozes with very similar talent in the 3rd round.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 09:28 AM
Edit: Was a little hot headed in my first post. I don't have a problem with drafting Brown in the 1st, I do have a problem with drafting Brown in the top 10. Any other year he would be 2nd to 3rd round talent yet this year so many seem to see him as a top 10 pick just because he is the 2nd best OLT in THIS years draft.
how in the world can you justify him being a 2nd or 3rd rounder? and just because he's the 2nd best LT in a relatively weak class doesn't mean he's going to automatically be top 10. that's ridiculous. the 2nd T wasn't drafted till the second round last year. you wanna know why brown is being looked at as a top 10 pick? because he's a TOP 10 PLAYER.

Exithios
03-19-2007, 09:41 AM
how in the world can you justify him being a 2nd or 3rd rounder? and just because he's the 2nd best LT in a relatively weak class doesn't mean he's going to automatically be top 10. that's ridiculous. the 2nd T wasn't drafted till the second round last year. you wanna know why brown is being looked at as a top 10 pick? because he's a TOP 10 PLAYER.

I'll admit, maybe I was being a tad bit sarcastic in stating that he is 2nd to 3rd round talent. I do still stand by the fact that I smell another Robert Gallery though. I don't like his work ethic (or lack there-of) and don't see him being a talent worthy of the #8 over-all.

If we do take him at the #8 spot and he does pan out to be worthy of the pick, I will be right back on these boards to openly admit I was wrong. I am pretty confident that I won't have to though.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 11:09 AM
basically no similarities to gallery.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2007, 11:16 AM
I'll admit, maybe I was being a tad bit sarcastic in stating that he is 2nd to 3rd round talent. I do still stand by the fact that I smell another Robert Gallery though. I don't like his work ethic (or lack there-of) and don't see him being a talent worthy of the #8 over-all.

If we do take him at the #8 spot and he does pan out to be worthy of the pick, I will be right back on these boards to openly admit I was wrong. I am pretty confident that I won't have to though.

I'm not calling him Galleryesque but I'm weary of this guy too. There is one top tackle in the top of the first round. He will be gone. Brown, even with a trade down, is a risk if you ask me. I trust what we did last year in the draft with linemen. Many guys who fit the zone scheme slide a little and I think we can shore up the line by taking some guys a little later. Especially with AP there. I wouldn't mind sliding back if AP isn't there but it would be to get the picks and get Nelson at FS.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 11:20 AM
i'd almost venture to say that brown is a "safer" pick than joe thomas. i can't really see any way he'll fail at the next level, he's just a damn good tackle. he'll start for 10 years, make a few pro bowls, relatively in the darkness to anyone that's not a texans fan. in 4 years you guys will be arguing about something about sportscenter where they rank the top 5 tackles and they leave out brown. lots of "ESPN IS DUMB. BROWN IS THE MAN" threads.

real
03-19-2007, 11:21 AM
IMHO, Levi Brown is only rated as high as he is because of the lack of talent at the position...

He's not top ten material, that's for sure.

El Tejano
03-19-2007, 11:23 AM
IMHO, Levi Brown is only rated as high as he is because of the lack of talent at the position...

He's not top ten material, that's for sure.

I agree. Anything outstide Joe Thomas from OL standpoint needs to be addressed in the second round or later.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2007, 11:26 AM
IMHO, Levi Brown is only rated as high as he is because of the lack of talent at the position...

He's not top ten material, that's for sure.

I agree. He is the next best and because there isn't much there it moved him up. I just don't like taking guys who get the label.."takes some plays off" and he was lazy with some big penalties last year..false starts. We have had enough of that.

real
03-19-2007, 11:30 AM
I agree. He is the next best and because there isn't much there it moved him up. I just don't like taking guys who get the label.."takes some plays off" and he was lazy with some big penalties last year..false starts. We have ahd enough of that.

I'm just not overly impressed with him. I think he's a solid player, and he may very well be a starter on someone's line for years to come... but we got two of those kind of guys with that potential in the third rd. last year, and the Chargers got an ace in the second.

If they take Levi, I hope they trade down to 15-20, because that's about where he'll go. He's really not even worth a 15 to 20 pick IMO, but because of the lack of talent at his position, he'll end up in that range.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 11:32 AM
again, he's not going to go top 10 or 15 because of a "lack of talent" at the position. that's not the way the draft works.

real
03-19-2007, 11:49 AM
again, he's not going to go top 10 or 15 because of a "lack of talent" at the position. that's not the way the draft works.

It actually does, and I'm not really sure how you can say it doesn't.

It's pretty much common sense.

That doesn't just apply to football, that applies to life.

If you're hungry and you really want a burger, but all you see is a pizza parlor and chineese resturaunt, you're either going to starve or take the next best thing.

Teams that need tackles are either going to go without, or take the next best thing.

Second Honeymoon
03-19-2007, 11:50 AM
for all the complaning about the o-line you guys have had over the years, this would be a beautiful pick.

i disagree completely. it would be just like us passing on Bush and Young for Mario because he was at a position of perceived need, and we all saw how well that worked out for us. You take the BPA and Brown is not the BPA at #8 in ANY scenario. In other drafts he would be a late 1st rounder. You don't draft on need in the 1st Round...PERIOD. I would have thought some of you guys would have learned that already.

If the Texans passed on Landry and AP to get Brown, I would come to the conclusion that the Texans will never do anything in the NFL.

Brown is a good player but just because he is the 2nd best Tackle DOES NOT make him the player to take at #8...geez

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 11:50 AM
as i said before, d'brickashaw ferguson goes #4 overall, and winston justice falls to the 2nd round. if a guy is drafted too high for his talent, it's because of the overall talent in the draft, not the talent available at that position. there are reaches here and there, but generally, no.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 11:51 AM
Brown is a good player but just because he is the 2nd best Tackle DOES NOT make him the player to take at #8...geez
the fact that he's a top 10 player makes him a good selection at #8.

real
03-19-2007, 11:54 AM
as i said before, d'brickashaw ferguson goes #4 overall, and winston justice falls to the 2nd round. if a guy is drafted too high for his talent, it's because of the overall talent in the draft, not the talent available at that position. there are reaches here and there, but generally, no.

O.k...

I can get with that....

I guess we just have different opinions on how good Brown is, compared to the rest of the players in the draft.

Specnatz
03-19-2007, 12:23 PM
you probably right, and I am hoping Spencer can come back.


I still think Casserly is hoping that bosilli can come back, because that is why nothing has been to help the O-Line.

Specnatz
03-19-2007, 12:37 PM
It is completely amazing to me that so much has been said about how bad of a drafter Casserly was because he never adressed the O-line and now all you want to do is not do anything about it. I guess it will magically fix itself by drafting talent in the 5th round, that sounds like a casserly thing to do.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2007, 12:45 PM
It is completely amazing to me that so much has been said about how bad of a drafter Casserly was because he never adressed the O-line and now all you want to do is not do anything about it. I guess it will magically fix itself by drafting talent in the 5th round, that sounds like a casserly thing to do.

No, it really is a product of this system. Kubes saw what they did in Denver and how O-lineman that were in the zone scheme could be had in the 2nd and 3rd round. We did it last year. This was a huge debate last off-season. The fact is that Denver would take an O-lineman in the 1st round but it was usually in the 20th type range, not the top of the draft..especially a guy with questions. Many zone blocking guys are known for quick feet, not size so they slip a little.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:00 PM
the reason denver hasn't drafted an o-lineman in the top of the draft is because they haven't had a top pick in a long long time.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2007, 01:10 PM
the reason denver hasn't drafted an o-lineman in the top of the draft is because they haven't had a top pick in a long long time.


Yeah, they took Foster at #20 I believe. So if their running game was successful with taking 2-3 round guys why reach in the Top 10?Again, last years draft was a perfect example of what Denver used to do. They look for a different style of linemen. Even if you don't think Brown is a reach, the system(Denver) seems to have been successful without the high pick lineman.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 01:15 PM
who knows, maybe shanahan wanted top 10 guys all along, he just had to resort to the later round players. you can't just assume you'll find those late round jewels. if there's a guy there at #8 that you feel is worthy of that pick, then you take him.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2007, 01:21 PM
who knows, maybe shanahan wanted top 10 guys all along, he just had to resort to the later round players. you can't just assume you'll find those late round jewels. if there's a guy there at #8 that you feel is worthy of that pick, then you take him.

Exactly. I don't think many see Brown as worthy of #8. As for the Broncos, they found these guys though and it was every year. So overall you'd think Kubes has it in his head that there are zone blocking type guys who slip and who he can find later. I don't think he sees them as diamonds in the rough as much as guys who fit his system.

Please_Evolve
03-19-2007, 02:59 PM
I'll just add that the broncos for the most part have the talent already in place to be able to groom and let these late round Linemen grow into the starter position. We simply DO NOT have that luxury at this point.

As for Tackles like McNeil and Winston Justice falling into the second i agree with you Kast. It was a matter of the overall draft not a positional thing. I am sure people in different spots are going to rate different players on what they need. For example we might rate Landry for us the BPA at 8. But ask what would another team deem BPA at 8. BPA is not always set in stone like Mel Kiper would like it. It's on positon of need and what position you have ranked as a bigger hole. Most prognoticators with the draft call something a reach because on their draft board they had x player avilable at this position. They assume we could magically trade back and have gotten that player at x position. It just doesn't work that way.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2007, 03:08 PM
I'll just add that the broncos for the most part have the talent already in place to be able to groom and let these late round Linemen grow into the starter position. We simply DO NOT have that luxury at this point.
As for Tackles like McNeil and Winston Justice falling into the second i agree with you Kast. It was a matter of the overall draft not a positional thing. I am sure people in different spots are going to rate different players on what they need. For example we might rate Landry for us the BPA at 8. But ask what would another team deem BPA at 8. BPA is not always set in stone like Mel Kiper would like it. It's on positon of need and what position you have ranked as a bigger hole. Most prognoticators with the draft call something a reach because on their draft board they had x player avilable at this position. They assume we could magically trade back and have gotten that player at x position. It just doesn't work that way.

Many started pretty raw and played as rookies. The Pats have done similar things. Yes they draft late but that doesn't make their methods any less true. With the new system and the right coaching I think they will fit in.

As for overall draft...when you start plugging "need" into the equation, they stop becoming BPA in my book. If there are 2 players at one position and one is a lock Top 5 and the next guy is the next best but not rated overall Top 10, then it is a reach for need. JMO.

Please_Evolve
03-19-2007, 03:45 PM
Many started pretty raw and played as rookies. The Pats have done similar things. Yes they draft late but that doesn't make their methods any less true. With the new system and the right coaching I think they will fit in.

As for overall draft...when you start plugging "need" into the equation, they stop becoming BPA in my book. If there are 2 players at one position and one is a lock Top 5 and the next guy is the next best but not rated overall Top 10, then it is a reach for need. JMO.


Yeah they have...and so have we. It just hasn't worked out very well for us. Those teams also usually have quality veterans to hide the new rookies starting. Again we don't have that luxury.

Sometimes "need" fits BPA. I see what you are saying but to me the trend growing in the NFL draft from what i see is people starting to take "need" over BPA.

Of course this is a reference to Brown to Joe Thomas but for my take on it what some have considered the Top T in the draft the second one taken has become more productive lately.

HoustonFrog
03-19-2007, 04:12 PM
Yeah they have...and so have we. It just hasn't worked out very well for us. Those teams also usually have quality veterans to hide the new rookies starting. Again we don't have that luxury.

Sometimes "need" fits BPA. I see what you are saying but to me the trend growing in the NFL draft from what i see is people starting to take "need" over BPA.

Of course this is a reference to Brown to Joe Thomas but for my take on it what some have considered the Top T in the draft the second one taken has become more productive lately.

I completely understand your point. I think part of me just thinks that this regime will never take an O-lineman in the Top 10. Hopefully we aren't there too often but I just don't see them doing it.

Please_Evolve
03-19-2007, 04:25 PM
I completely understand your point. I think part of me just thinks that this regime will never take an O-lineman in the Top 10. Hopefully we aren't there too often but I just don't see them doing it.


I'll buy you a beer for that statement.

I think we have a LOT of good options at 8 myself. Being Brown, Landry, and If Quinn falls to us. At least those are my top three with a guy like Anderson there 4th...warming up to the idea of bookened De specially if we can pick someone up to give push up the middle.

I am just really hoping this year we take the oline seriously enough to address a first or second on it. The idea of having everything go on Spencer's leg and Black being there as a bandaid i guess just makes me nervous with all our T woes.