PDA

View Full Version : How is Sage for Mobility?


ib4texans
03-16-2007, 02:17 PM
Considering that there is a possibility of his starting, how mobile is Sage?
He looks like he's a little thick at the hips and waist. Do we have any 40 yard times for him? I never really saw him scramble last season, so I am curiouse.

Texan_Bill
03-16-2007, 02:24 PM
Don't know how fast he is, but in 17 games he has 10 yards net, rushing.

My Hero
03-16-2007, 02:30 PM
Don't know how fast he is, but in 17 games he has 10 yards net, rushing.


His longest in 2005 12 yds
His longest in 2006 7 yds

His average is 0.08

I'd guess he's not very mobile.

Texan_Bill
03-16-2007, 02:34 PM
His longest in 2005 12 yds
His longest in 2006 7 yds

His average is 0.08

I'd guess he's not very mobile.

I will see how he did at that offensive juggernaut - Iowa State

My Hero
03-16-2007, 02:46 PM
I will see how he did at that offensive juggernaut - Iowa State


COLLEGE: Was a four-year letterman at Iowa State from 1997-2000…finished with 4,164 passing yards with 19 touchdowns and 26 interceptions on 306-of-587 passing during his four-year career, including the last two as a starter…


I don't know but this stands out at you.

Texan_Bill
03-16-2007, 02:46 PM
2000 Iowa State.

Not too bad actually:
ATT YDS TD AVG.
78 372 10 4.77

Also found this blurb:
Career Highlights:
An excellent all-around athlete, Sage played football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and track and field in high school. Redshirted as a freshman at Iowa State in 1996, Rosenfels saw limited action in a combined 6 games during the 1997 and 1998 seasons. In 1999, he became the Cyclones starting quarterback and made his presence felt immediately. Although the team had a record of 4-7-0, Rosenfels was outstanding, with 1,781 passing yards (127-235) and 10 touchdowns. He also ran 80 times for 225 yards and 4 touchdowns, and his 2,006 yards of total offense was the tenth best single-season mark in school history. A marketing major, Sage was named second team Academic All Big 12, and received Iowa State's Academic Achievement Award.

http://www.jewsinsports.org/profile.asp?sport=football&ID=382

Please_Evolve
03-16-2007, 03:07 PM
COLLEGE: Was a four-year letterman at Iowa State from 1997-2000…finished with 4,164 passing yards with 19 touchdowns and 26 interceptions on 306-of-587 passing during his four-year career, including the last two as a starter…


I don't know but this stands out at you.


ouch. and a 50% passer to boot.

Porky
03-16-2007, 04:54 PM
How mobil is Tom Brady??

It's far more important to avoid the rush, then be mobile (in terms of a runner/scrambler)

I will take Tom Brady or Payton Manning over Michael Vick any day.

Both can intuitively feel the rush, slide step, and deliver a strike far better than the golden boy can. But, everyone gets all enamored with footspeed or running ability and thinks that is better. Sage is not real elusive or fast in the open field, and is not a running threat, but if he can avoid rushers and deliver the ball on target, then that's all I really care about.

If you can get both attributes ala John Elway, all the better, but those guys come around once in a blue moon.

TwinSisters
03-16-2007, 05:01 PM
Montana was mobile without elite running ability

You have to be able to waggle, roll out, and throw on the move in most WCO versions.

My Hero
03-16-2007, 05:09 PM
How mobil is Tom Brady??

It's far more important to avoid the rush, then be mobile (in terms of a runner/scrambler)

I will take Tom Brady or Payton Manning over Michael Vick any day.

Both can intuitively feel the rush, slide step, and deliver a strike far better than the golden boy can. But, everyone gets all enamored with footspeed or running ability and thinks that is better. Sage is not real elusive or fast in the open field, and is not a running threat, but if he can avoid rushers and deliver the ball on target, then that's all I really care about.

If you can get both attributes ala John Elway, all the better, but those guys come around once in a blue moon.



Nobody even invoked the "Golden Boy's" name. But thanks now that you have I guess we can just let her rip.


CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,R,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CAR R,CARR,CARR,CARRCARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,,CAR R,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,

HOU-TEX
03-16-2007, 05:26 PM
Not that it defines a players mobility. Here's a few QBs 40 times I've found

Sage Rosenfels 4.71
Tom Brady 5.27
Donovan McNabb 4.64
Carson Palmer 4.65
Tony Romo 5.01
Eli Manning 4.90
Ben Rfsgfgberger 4.75
Philip Rivers 5.08
Matt Schaub 5.04

So, as far as 40 times go, Sage is right there. This is a decent website to obtain some good info. IMO, the shuttle and 20 yd will better determine mobility if anything can.:)

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/nflcombinebypos.php?draftyear=2004&GenPos=QB&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

ib4texans
03-16-2007, 05:28 PM
Not that it defines a players mobility. Here's a few QBs 40 times I've found

Sage Rosenfels 4.71
Tom Brady 5.27
Donovan McNabb 4.64
Carson Palmer 4.65
Tony Romo 5.01
Eli Manning 4.90
Ben Rfsgfgberger 4.75
Philip Rivers 5.08
Matt Schaub 5.04

So, as far as 40 times go, Sage is right there. This is a decent website to obtain some good info. IMO, the shuttle and 20 yd will better determine mobility if anything can.:)

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/nflcombinebypos.php?draftyear=2004&GenPos=QB&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC



Hey, that's pretty darn good. Thanks for the info.

HOU-TEX
03-16-2007, 05:30 PM
Hey, that's pretty darn good. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised to see that Sage ran that fast. He just doesn't look to be a speed demon for a QB. I don't know, maybe it's his ears that make him look slow. lol

tsip
03-16-2007, 05:32 PM
http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2005/09/dolphins-sage-rosenfels050903.html

Here's a good article on Sage at Miami-sound familiar? He out played all the other QB's each pre-season was stuck on the bench. Like a lot of us , many Dolphin fans wanted Sage to be given a chance...

He does not have a history of getting sacked at the college or pro level, unlike Carr did during his 1 'break out' season at FS (between 30-40 sacks).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/2000/bowls/news/2000/12/28/insight_gamer/

...a little more info on Sage at Iowa State. Unlike Carr, he did not walk into a 'winning' tradition but left with a 9 win season/bowl victory his SR year. JMO, but it's kinda nice to hear that we have a QB on the roster that has done things the old fashioned way--he 'earned' them.

Cgold
03-16-2007, 05:35 PM
Dont even bring up Brady, Thats a joke, and Brady is more mobile than Sage. I know everyone hates Carr, I get that. SAGE IS NOT BETTER!! He is not the savior of this team. If he takes Carr's place it will be for one year! People will be begging for a new Qb by Nov.!! Rosenfels is a career back up for a reason, and hes backed up some not so great Qbs. Hes dropped behind every single Qb the Dolphins put on there roster. Jay Fiedler, Ray Lucas!!, Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte, A.J Feeley, and then was dropped for Cleo Lemon and Shane Matthews.. Wow, what a list of hall of famers.
Ohh, forgot Jason Garrett too!!
He is not a starter for a reason, and he will never start for prob. any team except maybe the texans this year, because everyone is so focused on running the other Qb out of town.

Vinny
03-16-2007, 05:40 PM
He is not a starter for a reason, and he will never start for prob. any team except maybe the texans this year, because everyone is so focused on running the other Qb out of town.not all of us are california guys who are hanging on to Carr's glory days. Carr only threw 1 more TD of any consequence than you did in the last ten games....most of us Texan types want change...simple stuff.

Runner
03-16-2007, 05:41 PM
Sage looked pretty fast after the botched field goal when he made the tackle and broke his hand. That wasn't on the track though, maybe he just plays hard.

Wait! That would be a good thing!

Cgold
03-16-2007, 05:45 PM
Riggghhhtt, its called reality, I think Carr should be traded also, I just dont have this blind hate, and want to replace him with someone worse.. People want him gone so bad its scary, people talking about lets give up our 2nd pick and our 3rd pick and Carr, so we can move up 5 spots to get a rookie QB who wont be ready to lead the team, or lets get AP and use Sage, cuz hes so awesome, pleaseee. We need all the picks we can get.

tsip
03-16-2007, 05:52 PM
Dont even bring up Brady, Thats a joke, and Brady is more mobile than Sage. I know everyone hates Carr, I get that. SAGE IS NOT BETTER!! He is not the savior of this team. If he takes Carr's place it will be for one year! People will be begging for a new Qb by Nov.!! Rosenfels is a career back up for a reason, and hes backed up some not so great Qbs. Hes dropped behind every single Qb the Dolphins put on there roster. Jay Fiedler, Ray Lucas!!, Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte, A.J Feeley, and then was dropped for Cleo Lemon and Shane Matthews.. Wow, what a list of hall of famers.
Ohh, forgot Jason Garrett too!!
He is not a starter for a reason, and he will never start for prob. any team except maybe the texans this year, because everyone is so focused on running the other Qb out of town.

Well, the only thing we know for sure is that CARR is definitely not a starter...period. What in the world are all you Carr:homer: 's gonna do when Sage brings us out of the 'dark' ages....course Carr didn't leave much of a 'legacy' for any QB to 'blow away' with his 12td avg (couldn't even match that last year) and his more int than tds.

...best of all, though, will be the thrill of seeing a QB that can play the game 'up right.'...

Porky
03-16-2007, 05:53 PM
Riggghhhtt, its called reality, I think Carr should be traded also, I just dont have this blind hate, and want to replace him with someone worse.. People want him gone so bad its scary, people talking about lets give up our 2nd pick and our 3rd pick and Carr, so we can move up 5 spots to get a rookie QB who wont be ready to lead the team, or lets get AP and use Sage, cuz hes so awesome, pleaseee. We need all the picks we can get.


Who is saying Sage is awesome? I simply think he is better than Carr. It's like saying I think my Toyota is better than a Chevy. Doesn't mean I mistake my Toyota for a Lexus, but it does mean I would rather drive it than a Geo Prism. Is your answer that we should stay with the Prism simply because we cannot afford a Lexus?

Secondly, we really don't know how good (or bad) he is until he plays for a consistent stretch and other teams game plan for him. I don't think many of us consider him the long term answer though you never know until he plays. Tom Brady was a 6th rd pick entrenched on the bench until the starter got hurt. It's hard to evualate a guy who doesn't play. Do you not think people can actually better themselves throughout their career, or is how they are in one year mean that is always how they will play?

afcman
03-16-2007, 05:57 PM
The way our OL is/has been, we need someone who can get out and run or get out to pass. Not someone who just takes the sack.

keyfro
03-16-2007, 06:02 PM
look the bottom line is that you don't measure a QB on how mobile he is...that's a trait...you measure a QB on wins and loses...on his ability to pick the team up when things look bad can lead them...tom brady has done that...peyton has done that...carr hasn't...sage hasn't...the bottom line is we don't have a proven QB on this team...even if we draft one of the best QB's this year we still do not have a proven winner at the most important position on this team

all sage provides is a fresh face to the picture...somebody the fans haven't fallen out of a favor with...a guy who hasn't been shell shocked by being sacked a record amount of times in 5 years...all we have on sage is that in the limited action he's been in he's looked pretty good...but the same could be said about aj feely...about brian griese...about a lot of back-up QB's who got a chance to start and fell flat because the team around them didn't believe in them

Cgold
03-16-2007, 06:11 PM
Yes thats all great and all people can get better, and we haven't seen him play very much, thats true, but theres a reason we dont see him play. The rest of the teams and coaches do see him everyday, and the fact is he has never earned the position of starter, and he hasnt had a huge level of talent stacked against him. Hes been around for 7 or 8 years. Its not like he just never got his shot because he was stuck behind sooo many talented players. Tom Brady was behind a veteran QB who at that time was still pretty good, the Patriots already prob. were pretty happy with him and thats why he was on the team as the backup. Obviously he exceeded expectations, Sage has never had to sit behind anyone like that, he is evaulated fairly like every other player on the field and if he hasnt "got his shot" its not anyone elses fault. Again if the texans drop Carr and go another direction that doesnt bother me, I personally think it is time to, IF we can get something that is an actual upgrade! People think that if I dont hate the guy Im some homer or something, I just see no point in changing him for someone that is not an improvement in anyway, and has no experience for a reason. Carr has not got it done, thats obvious, but the team hasnt really got it done in all aspects, and like you said people can better themselves and its possible that he can do it as the team gets better around him. Its obvious that he is not going to be the superstar of the league but he prob. can do a decent job when everyone improves.
I understand everyone that says they dont want a guy who just does a decent job they want a guy that is a pure game changer, thats makes sense and I agree, but thats not Sage, and if maybe it could be Quinn that would be right away and to get him would only be giving up more. The best time to move him may not be this year, if it stays the same.
People want to draft Kolb real badly well you dont need to get rid off Carr to get him, and maybe he could be that QB in the future..
I agree that it will prob. never be Carr, but I dont want to replace him for options that arnt better, because I dont got the "hate" floating around. :hides:

A Texan
03-16-2007, 06:11 PM
2000 Iowa State.

Not too bad actually:
ATT YDS TD AVG.
78 372 10 4.77


According to NFL.com's 2002 draft profile for Carr, his Fresno State numbers for rushing were:

2001 94 carries for 67 yds. (0.7 avg)
2000 74 carries for 83 yds. (1.1 avg)

Cgold
03-16-2007, 06:15 PM
which pretty much makes that stat useless. :)

Vinny
03-16-2007, 06:18 PM
I agree that it will prob. never be Carr, but I dont want to replace him for options that arnt better, because I dont got the "hate" floating around. :hides:Most of us don't hate him either. We just don't think he is a very good QB. That doesn't equate to hatred.

Since you live in California, is the reason you are a Texan fan because of David Carr?

tsip
03-16-2007, 06:18 PM
Yes thats all great and all people can get better, and we haven't seen him play very much, thats true, but theres a reason we dont see him play. The rest of the teams and coaches do see him everyday, and the fact is he has never earned the position of starter, and he hasnt had a huge level of talent stacked against him. Hes been around for 7 or 8 years. Its not like he just never got his shot because he was stuck behind sooo many talented players. Tom Brady was behind a veteran QB who at that time was still pretty good, the Patriots already prob. were pretty happy with him and thats why he was on the team as the backup. Obviously he exceeded expectations, Sage has never had to sit behind anyone like that, he is evaulated fairly like every other player on the field and if he hasnt "got his shot" its not anyone elses fault. Again if the texans drop Carr and go another direction that doesnt bother me, I personally think it is time to, IF we can get something that is an actual upgrade! People think that if I dont hate the guy Im some homer or something, I just see no point in changing him for someone that is not an improvement in anyway, and has no experience for a reason. Carr has not got it done, thats obvious, but the team hasnt really got it done in all aspects, and like you said people can better themselves and its possible that he can do it as the team gets better around him. Its obvious that he is not going to be the superstar of the league but he prob. can do a decent job when everyone improves.
I understand everyone that says they dont want a guy who just does a decent job they want a guy that is a pure game changer, thats makes sense and I agree, but thats not Sage, and if maybe it could be Quinn that would be right away and to get him would only be giving up more. The best time to move him may not be this year, if it stays the same.
People want to draft Kolb real badly well you dont need to get rid off Carr to get him, and maybe he could be that QB in the future..
I agree that it will prob. never be Carr, but I dont want to replace him for options that arnt better, because I dont got the "hate" floating around. :hides:

Carr has not earned his starting job since he has been here-b/u's have played better when they've replaced him and almost every qb has out played him during the pre-season....and, when he's finally gone, it could 'look' even uglier than it already does about his career with the Texans...

tsip
03-16-2007, 06:26 PM
"but the same could be said about aj feely...about brian griese...about a lot of back-up QB's who got a chance to start and fell flat because the team around them didn't believe in them"

...did you know that Griese started 5 games at Miami with a QB rating of 69.2 and had more ints than tds--same with Feely, except he started 8 games with a 61.7 rating

...other QBs at Miami-like Lemon-didn't play while Sage was there...read the articles above that I've already posted

Double Barrel
03-16-2007, 07:19 PM
COLLEGE: Was a four-year letterman at Iowa State from 1997-2000…finished with 4,164 passing yards with 19 touchdowns and 26 interceptions on 306-of-587 passing during his four-year career, including the last two as a starter…


I don't know but this stands out at you.

More interceptions than TDs?! Why, give that man an $8 million contract today! :victory:

How mobil is Tom Brady??

It's far more important to avoid the rush, then be mobile (in terms of a runner/scrambler)

I will take Tom Brady or Payton Manning over Michael Vick any day.

Both can intuitively feel the rush, slide step, and deliver a strike far better than the golden boy can. But, everyone gets all enamored with footspeed or running ability and thinks that is better. Sage is not real elusive or fast in the open field, and is not a running threat, but if he can avoid rushers and deliver the ball on target, then that's all I really care about.

If you can get both attributes ala John Elway, all the better, but those guys come around once in a blue moon.

QFT! :howdy:

The so-called "modern running QB" is so overrated, simply because the position can throw the ball down the field much more efficiently than running it the same distance. Old school guys like Tarkenton and Staubach were considered scramblers because they ran east/west as opposed to north/south.

Which is what has impressed me with a guy like McNabb, who learned how to scramble, which gives the receivers time to get open. It's a much more dynamic type of situation, IMO, and much more spectacular to see a QB scramble behind the LOS for 40 yards then throw a 60 yard bomb for a TD. I'd take that highlight any day over a Vick run, because you're more likely to win more games.

Nobody even invoked the "Golden Boy's" name. But thanks now that you have I guess we can just let her rip.


CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR, CARR,CARR,R,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CAR R,CARR,CARR,CARRCARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,,CAR R,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,CARR,

That certainly adds a lot to this thread. :wild: not really

New_Texans
03-16-2007, 07:37 PM
No QB will succeed in our offense, period. Not until all the other holes are filled. Carr was set up for failure. Sage will fail and any other QB will fail until those holes are fixed. You know what i mean by holes as well.

Vinny
03-16-2007, 07:41 PM
No QB will succeed in our offense, period. Not until all the other holes are filled. Carr was set up for failure. Sage will fail and any other QB will fail until those holes are fixed. You know what i mean by holes as well.
I don't know what you guys see in Carr other than his high salary and his misplaced hype. This team could have been .500 last year if we had decent QB play.

thunderkyss
03-16-2007, 08:09 PM
No QB will succeed in our offense, period. Not until all the other holes are filled. Carr was set up for failure. Sage will fail and any other QB will fail until those holes are fixed. You know what i mean by holes as well.

Jon Kitna, Marc Bulger, Ben Roethlisberger... those three guys got sacked more than David Carr in '06. Good QBs, behind bad offensive lines. They each threw for more than 3500 yards, and they each threw for more than 17 TDs.

J.P. Losman & Charlie Frye... no one would call these guys franchise QBS(well, maybe Buffalo would) but they were sacked more than David. J.P. threw for 190 yards per game, with 19 touchdowns. Charlie Frye threw for 10 touchdowns in 13 games, and avg'd 188 yards per game.

David Carr threw for 172 yards per game. 11 touchdowns all season. 9 of them in our first 6 games. & 12 Ints.

There is not another QB in the NFL, that started 16 games in '06, that threw for 11 TDs or less other than David Carr. The next closest, is Alex Smith, who threw 16. Remember what we were saying about Alex Smith last year?? What we said about J.P. Losman??

Think about it.

texas mopar
03-16-2007, 08:09 PM
I don't know what you guys see in Carr other than his high salary and his misplaced hype. This team could have been .500 last year if we had decent QB play.

This team could have been better than a 500 team with some DB's that can cover or if we had a better running game, basically I'm saying this team needs more than just a QB. You guy's need to get over your hatred for Carr and focus on what improves the team. If Carr and Sage battle it out for a starting job, thats probably the best we can do as for as a QB. And no I don't care who wins the starting job because until we improve in all areas of the team we will still struggle.:)

Vinny
03-16-2007, 08:13 PM
This team could have been better than a 500 team with some DB's that can cover or if we had a better running game, basically I'm saying this team needs more than just a QB. You guy's need to get over your hatred for Carr and focus on what improves the team. If Carr and Sage battle it out for a starting job, thats probably the best we can do as for as a QB. And no I don't care who wins the starting job because until we improve in all areas of the team we will still struggle.:)
I don't hate anyone, but I do think some people can play QB in the NFL and some guys aren't as good. Pretending that everyone hates Carr for no reason at all is just ridiculous and insipid.

also, it's hard to cover anyone when your best pass rusher has 4 sacks on the year. We need a cornerback too...but two good corners last year were not going to improve ONE TD in the last 10 games of the year into 12 TD's.

texas mopar
03-16-2007, 08:15 PM
Jon Kitna, Marc Bulger, Ben Roethlisberger... athose three guys got sacked more than David Carr in '06. Good QBs, behind bad offensive lines. They each threw for more than 3500 yards, and they each threw for more than 17 TDs.

J.P. Losman & Charlie Frye... no one would call these guys franchise QBS(well, maybe Buffalo would) but they were sacked more than David. J.P. threw for 190 yards per game, with 19 touchdowns. Charlie Frye threw for 10 touchdowns in 13 games, and avg'd 188 yards per game.

David Carr threw for 172 yards per game. 11 touchdowns all season. 9 of them in our first 6 games. & 12 Ints.

There is not another QB in the NFL, that started 16 games in '06, that threw for 11 TDs or less other than David Carr. The next closest, is Alex Smith, who threw 16. Remember what we were saying about Alex Smith last year?? What we said about J.P. Losman??

Think about it.

I wish ya'll would not use Losman as an example because our DB's rolled out the red carpet on 2TD's and 164 yd's and that was just the first 2 off. poss. for Buffalo.:wild:

thunderkyss
03-16-2007, 08:16 PM
This team could have been better than a 500 team with some DB's that can cover or if we had a better running game, basically I'm saying this team needs more than just a QB. You guy's need to get over your hatred for Carr and focus on what improves the team. If Carr and Sage battle it out for a starting job, thats probably the best we can do as for as a QB. And no I don't care who wins the starting job because until we improve in all areas of the team we will still struggle.:)

I think Vinny mentioned that the Titans gave up over 400 points in '06. & their QB play wasn't even avg... But they managed to win more games than we did.


& we didn't give up 400 points in '06.

Which reminds me, we lost to the Giants, 10-14. We couldn't score more than 14 points. We won in Jacksonville even though we only scored 13(way to go defense). We only scored 14 points on offense against Buffalo(our corners added the other 7)... We didn't score but 7 points against new England, and only 14 against Cleveland(again, thankyou D).

texas mopar
03-16-2007, 08:20 PM
I think Vinny mentioned that the Titans gave up over 400 points in '06. & their QB play wasn't even avg... But they managed to win more games than we did.


& we didn't give up 400 points in '06.

How many yards per game did they avg. in rushing!!! It makes a difference!!

thunderkyss
03-16-2007, 08:21 PM
How many yards per game did they avg. in rushing!!! It makes a difference!!

We had 188 yards rushing against Buffalo, and still couldn't put up more than 14 points on offense.

texas mopar
03-16-2007, 08:23 PM
We had 188 yards rushing against Buffalo, and still couldn't put up more than 14 points on offense.

The same Buffalo that we spotted 14 points to start the game thanks defense!!:joker:

thunderkyss
03-16-2007, 08:59 PM
The same Buffalo that we spotted 14 points to start the game thanks defense!!:joker:

At the half, the score was 17-14 Buffalo.

After we failed to score on our first possession of the second half, our defense put 7 on the board. 17-21 Houston.

Defensively, we held Buffalo to 0 points over the next 4 possessions.

We also had 4 offensive possessions, but never crossed mid-field. 2 of those possessions were 3 & outs.

It's not all David's fault, I'm not saying that. But he is our leader on offense.

MATRIX
03-16-2007, 09:46 PM
Well, the only thing we know for sure is that CARR is definitely not a starter...period. What in the world are all you Carr:homer: 's gonna do when Sage brings us out of the 'dark' ages....course Carr didn't leave much of a 'legacy' for any QB to 'blow away' with his 12td avg (couldn't even match that last year) and his more int than tds.

...best of all, though, will be the thrill of seeing a QB that can play the game 'up right.'...

The only thing Sage will be bringing anyone is water...as a backup. Mark my words, Sage WILL NOT start in Houston. I won't say how I know...but that much I know is fact from SWT's post also. As he has more inside info than I do.

A Texan
03-16-2007, 10:37 PM
[QUOTE=MATRIX;629213]. I won't say how I know...QUOTE]...because you don't know anything.

tsip
03-16-2007, 10:49 PM
The only thing Sage will be bringing anyone is water...as a backup. Mark my words, Sage WILL NOT start in Houston. I won't say how I know...but that much I know is fact from SWT's post also. As he has more inside info than I do.

...so I got a family member that is a 'big' dog of another team...we don't even talk football

tsip
03-16-2007, 10:52 PM
The only thing Sage will be bringing anyone is water...as a backup. Mark my words, Sage WILL NOT start in Houston. I won't say how I know...but that much I know is fact from SWT's post also. As he has more inside info than I do.


"Personaly I don't like Carr, but he did help get us 6. Nobody can argue with that." MATRIX

MATRIX
03-17-2007, 12:04 AM
"Personaly I don't like Carr, but he did help get us 6. Nobody can argue with that." MATRIX


Your right, I don't...your point? He was the QB on a 6 WIN team last year...it is a fact.

[QUOTE=MATRIX;629213]. I won't say how I know...QUOTE]...because you don't know anything.

Keep tlking out your *** I really don't care. Sage WILL NOT start here plain and simple.

I know what I know and you hate anything saying Sage won't start...or worse Carr will return.

And you want a source, here is as much as i'll say. I went to school with one of the Texans starters agent. And his client didn't want to play for Sage(as a starter) he dosen't care for him. The FO and my friend had a meeting, and were given 100% assurance Sage wouldn't be the Texans QB that he was insurance as a backup. I speak to him every few weeks, and he looks on this site alot. I asked if I could say anything or just keep quiet. He siad I could give a situation, and let you guess(figures you wouldn't). Also, Plummer wasn't to be a starter had he cme here, hence why he isn't here. He was simply a way to push a certian QB even more to perform better.

tsip
03-17-2007, 12:37 AM
Your right, I don't...your point? He was the QB on a 6 WIN team last year...it is a fact.

[QUOTE=A Texan;629243]

Keep tlking out your *** I really don't care. Sage WILL NOT start here plain and simple.

I know what I know and you hate anything saying Sage won't start...or worse Carr will return.

And you want a source, here is as much as i'll say. I went to school with one of the Texans starters agent. And his client didn't want to play for Sage(as a starter) he dosen't care for him. The FO and my friend had a meeting, and were given 100% assurance Sage wouldn't be the Texans QB that he was insurance as a backup. I speak to him every few weeks, and he looks on this site alot. I asked if I could say anything or just keep quiet. He siad I could give a situation, and let you guess(figures you wouldn't). Also, Plummer wasn't to be a starter had he cme here, hence why he isn't here. He was simply a way to push a certian QB even more to perform better.

...good thing I was wearing boots and-it's ok, you can come out of the closet, everyone knows you're a Carr 'cry baby'...and my source knows more than your source, so there...

MATRIX
03-17-2007, 12:52 AM
[QUOTE=MATRIX;629304]Your right, I don't...your point? He was the QB on a 6 WIN team last year...it is a fact.



...good thing I was wearing boots and-it's ok, you can come out of the closet, everyone knows you're a Carr 'cry baby'...and my source knows more than your source, so there...


As for Carr...I PRAY we take Stanton in the 3rd and he is ready either mid-season or in 08. Because I may cry if Carr plays the way he did in the 2-14 season and we have Stanton riding pine. Makes me sick to consider that.

And unless your source represents a player on his team...I doubt it. But as I said...do i care what you belive? No

tsip
03-17-2007, 01:11 AM
[QUOTE=tsip;629323]


As for Carr...I PRAY we take Stanton in the 3rd and he is ready either mid-season or in 08. Because I may cry if Carr plays the way he did in the 2-14 season and we have Stanton riding pine. Makes me sick to consider that.

And unless your source represents a player on his team...I doubt it. But as I said...do i care what you belive? No

...player? no, my source is higher than that

MATRIX
03-17-2007, 01:18 AM
[QUOTE=MATRIX;629335]

...player? no, my source is higher than that

Ok, take care Kubes nice of you t visit.

HomeBred_Texan
03-17-2007, 01:25 AM
Well my first thought when I saw the title of the thread was....

Who cares???? He won't start and that is a fact... But only a fact in my opinion...

Vinny
03-17-2007, 10:15 AM
Keep tlking out your *** I really don't care. Sage WILL NOT start here plain and simple.

I know what I know and you hate anything saying Sage won't start...or worse Carr will return.

And you want a source, here is as much as i'll say. I went to school with one of the Texans starters agent. And his client didn't want to play for Sage(as a starter) he dosen't care for him. The FO and my friend had a meeting, and were given 100% assurance Sage wouldn't be the Texans QB that he was insurance as a backup. I speak to him every few weeks, and he looks on this site alot. I asked if I could say anything or just keep quiet. He siad I could give a situation, and let you guess(figures you wouldn't). Also, Plummer wasn't to be a starter had he cme here, hence why he isn't here. He was simply a way to push a certian QB even more to perform better.
some of you guys are so out of touch with reality it isn't funny.

Jwwillis
03-17-2007, 12:04 PM
I've been saying all along there is no way Sage is going to be able to get outa the way fast enough. He may last 5 games into the season before he looks like humpty dumpty.

Mr. White
03-17-2007, 12:14 PM
This has gotta be the most confusing thread that I've ever come across.

NATHANHALE
03-17-2007, 06:19 PM
I've been saying all along there is no way Sage is going to be able to get outa the way fast enough. He may last 5 games into the season before he looks like humpty dumpty.

I'm going to give you some facts. First, we know that Carr has a history of being sacked, Sage does not. Second, I'm assuming you believe that Sage runs slow and is not quick...ok, the facts.

HIGH SCHOOL
Sage played football,basketball,baseball,track, and tennis. He was all-state in football,basketball, and baseball. How many of your friends lettered in 5 sports and made all-state in 3 of them in high school?

COLLEGE
Sage rushed for 660yds on 164 carries/4.0avg and scored 14 rushing tds

SIDE NOTE
Sage and Carr's 40 yd times were both around 4.7

OK, what has Sage done during his 'athletic' career that leads you to believe he will not be quick enough to avoid sacks and will be the next, 'humpty dumpty?'

Jwwillis
03-17-2007, 07:02 PM
I'm going to give you some facts. First, we know that Carr has a history of being sacked, Sage does not. Second, I'm assuming you believe that Sage runs slow and is not quick...ok, the facts.

HIGH SCHOOL
Sage played football,basketball,baseball,track, and tennis. He was all-state in football,basketball, and baseball. How many of your friends lettered in 5 sports and made all-state in 3 of them in high school?

COLLEGE
Sage rushed for 660yds on 164 carries/4.0avg and scored 14 rushing tds

SIDE NOTE
Sage and Carr's 40 yd times were both around 4.7

OK, what has Sage done during his 'athletic' career that leads you to believe he will not be quick enough to avoid sacks and will be the next, 'humpty dumpty?'


Watching his game speed during games last year is where i drew my conclusion. Good stuff about his high school days. And you say some reach to defend Carr?

jvaldez1984
03-17-2007, 07:31 PM
I know everyone hates Carr, I get that. SAGE IS NOT BETTER!! He is not the savior of this team. If he takes Carr's place it will be for one year! People will be begging for a new Qb by Nov.!! Rosenfels is a career back up for a reason, and hes backed up some not so great Qbs. Hes dropped behind every single Qb the Dolphins put on there roster. Jay Fiedler, Ray Lucas!!, Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte, A.J Feeley, and then was dropped for Cleo Lemon and Shane Matthews.. Wow, what a list of hall of famers.
Ohh, forgot Jason Garrett too!!
He is not a starter for a reason, and he will never start for prob. any team except maybe the texans this year, because everyone is so focused on running the other Qb out of town.

ah...nice to see that someone has a good head on their shoulders...i see the headlines now, if Sage does replace Carr this year, "Texans moving backwards at QB position" or "Sage out with injury, Carr saves game"

NATHANHALE
03-17-2007, 09:09 PM
Watching his game speed during games last year is where i drew my conclusion. Good stuff about his high school days. And you say some reach to defend Carr?

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sack/Lost Rating
David Carr 442 302 2767 68.3 6.3 11 2.5 12 2.7 53 41/240 82.1
Sage Rosenfels 39 27 265 69.2 6.8 3 7.7 1 2.6 28 1/5 103.0


OK, there are the stats last yr and I still don't see any negative about Sage's game speed-his completion % is better than Carrs,his ypa is better,his td and int % are better,his sack ratio is much better, and QB ranking is better!!!!!

Jwwillis
03-17-2007, 11:18 PM
Your not going to see this one in the stats. Especially with the limited ones you have on Sage. Maybe it will work out better without a roll out type QB who knows. Perhaps what we need is a pocket savy guy in there. But if the O-Line doesnt improve....HUMPTY DUMPTY TIME!!

NATHANHALE
03-17-2007, 11:26 PM
Your not going to see this one in the stats. Especially with the limited ones you have on Sage. Maybe it will work out better without a roll out type QB who knows. Perhaps what we need is a pocket savy guy in there. But if the O-Line doesnt improve....HUMPTY DUMPTY TIME!!


...typical Carr post---all 'jell-0 (no sgar)' and no 'meat and potatoes'-don't feel alone, no Carr supporter even attempts to back up their post, and I don't blame them...facts just aren't there...

NATHANHALE
03-18-2007, 01:43 AM
"Your right, I don't...your point? He was the QB on a 6 WIN team last year...it is a fact."

Yea, when it's 6 wins, it's Carr's the man.

But,when its 2 wins, it's the team.

...what a difference 4 wins make! Now, if we can just get the team to help out when it's 6 wins, and Carr to help out when it's 2 wins--heck who knows what's next!

Jwwillis
03-18-2007, 12:01 PM
...typical Carr post---all 'jell-0 (no sgar)' and no 'meat and potatoes'-don't feel alone, no Carr supporter even attempts to back up their post, and I don't blame them...facts just aren't there...

Dude you need to stop fixating on Carr. You have some sort of mental hang up on him. I say Sage isn't the answer and Im a "Carr supporter"? Where is the name Carr in my post you quoted? Are you so blinded by your own rhetoric that you have lost the ability to read? I don't think Carr or Sage is the answer. And I'll bet neither starts on opening day.

A Texan
03-19-2007, 12:29 AM
Bob Allen on Ch. 13 Sunday night asked Kube the hypothetical question if Carr was traded did he think Sage could be a starting QB. Without any hesitation, he replied that Sage could be. He also volunteered without being asked, that Sage's teammates liked him.

mganz
03-19-2007, 05:06 PM
I don't hate anyone, but I do think some people can play QB in the NFL and some guys aren't as good. Pretending that everyone hates Carr for no reason at all is just ridiculous and insipid.

also, it's hard to cover anyone when your best pass rusher has 4 sacks on the year. We need a cornerback too...but two good corners last year were not going to improve ONE TD in the last 10 games of the year into 12 TD's.

how many times did he get the team within the 5 yard line, that lead to rushing TDs? I'm not so hung up on TD passes, if we get it to the 5 and we run it in, i'm ok with that qb, whoever it is.

Texans_Chick
03-19-2007, 06:32 PM
Bob Allen on Ch. 13 Sunday night asked Kube the hypothetical question if Carr was traded did he think Sage could be a starting QB. Without any hesitation, he replied that Sage could be. He also volunteered without being asked, that Sage's teammates liked him.

FWIW.

I saw him give a 30 minute talk. He carries himself like an NFL quarterback. He's well spoken, obviously bright, confident but not a jerk about it and thoughtful. Says the team stuff you want him to say. You could see how he could be a good lockerroom guy. I was talking to some folks that interviewed him at radio row at the Super Bowl, and they couldn't stop raving about what a great guy he was.

Nothing has been given to him in his career, and he is grateful for the help he has been given by different coaches.

In talking about his background, he said that he played lots of sports as a kid, and in high school he didn't consider football his best sport. He got a DI scholarship and was interested in it because of his connections with the coach.

He sees himself as an athlete.

So there you go. He really didn't have much as far as opportunities to show his mobility during the preseason and season, other than busting his hand during a fluke tackle. He seemed to move in the pocket okay in limited action, and usually got rid of the ball before he got flushed. I don't remember them running much bootlegs while he was in.

In the KC preseason game, they had Carr doing tons of bootlegs early in the game, but I don't believe that Sage did too many.

NATHANHALE
03-19-2007, 09:51 PM
how many times did he get the team within the 5 yard line, that lead to rushing TDs? I'm not so hung up on TD passes, if we get it to the 5 and we run it in, i'm ok with that qb, whoever it is.

I thought the Carr lover's were all about 'team'--now it's how Carr got us 6 wins or Carr got us to the 5 yd line, never mentioning any other player's name, which is just another reason Carr is not the most 'popular' player in the locker room.

Don't get too excited about your post, as we didn't light up the score board with rushing tds, either, but-like I said before, I don't hear you passing out praise on offense or defense for any player helping Carr getting his league leading low 11 tds (players starting 16 games).

mganz
03-20-2007, 01:59 AM
I thought the Carr lover's were all about 'team'--now it's how Carr got us 6 wins or Carr got us to the 5 yd line, never mentioning any other player's name, which is just another reason Carr is not the most 'popular' player in the locker room.

Don't get too excited about your post, as we didn't light up the score board with rushing tds, either, but-like I said before, I don't hear you passing out praise on offense or defense for any player helping Carr getting his league leading low 11 tds (players starting 16 games).

and the carr hater seem to discount every good thing he has done. There is plenty of praise going around for other players on the team and i'm all for that. Why do I need to say what has already been said, many times. YOU say the same thing time and time again. Sure it may be in a different way, it always says "Carr sucks". Thats OK, thats your opinion. I have said that I do like Carr and do support him, if you want to call me a lover thats fine. I have never said that he didn't deserve to be critisized when he makes mistakes. I just don't see the need to coninue to beat a dead horse. If Carr plays next year i'll be happy, but if he doesn't, i'll still be happy. You will only be happy if he is gone, that says alot about what you think about the team. Because the true haters only want Carr gone at any cost.

NATHANHALE
03-20-2007, 04:42 AM
and the carr hater seem to discount every good thing he has done. There is plenty of praise going around for other players on the team and i'm all for that. Why do I need to say what has already been said, many times. YOU say the same thing time and time again. Sure it may be in a different way, it always says "Carr sucks". Thats OK, thats your opinion. I have said that I do like Carr and do support him, if you want to call me a lover thats fine. I have never said that he didn't deserve to be criticized when he makes mistakes. I just don't see the need to coninue to beat a dead horse. If Carr plays next year i'll be happy, but if he doesn't, i'll still be happy. You will only be happy if he is gone, that says alot about what you think about the team. Because the true haters only want Carr gone at any cost.

The problem is you Carr Lover's make general statements, never any specifics--i.e/, give some examples of what Carr did to get us to the 5 yd and what game it was, etc. I'd love to hear something positive from a Carr Homer about what he's done/did, etc. instead of the same old excuses about his failures. I would absolutely positively love to hear from you about the 'good stuff' Carr did last year and what he will do to help the team this year....

Calling me names and 'putting' words or thoughts in my mouth does not help your cause--give us the 'good' stuff. Too, if you check it out, posters like me generally only speak out in response to a homers post and we do it without all the put downs,name calling, 'get off the board' rhetoric posters like you spit out....

...is someone making you and your buddies read these post?

Arky
03-20-2007, 06:12 AM
Dude you need to stop fixating on Carr. You have some sort of mental hang up on him. I say Sage isn't the answer and Im a "Carr supporter"? Where is the name Carr in my post you quoted? Are you so blinded by your own rhetoric that you have lost the ability to read? I don't think Carr or Sage is the answer. And I'll bet neither starts on opening day.

I think this is a big problem with a lot of the Carr haters/bashers/critics. I think David's good looks make them uncomfortable. They are confused by their attraction and get angry because manly men don't think these thoughts. They get angry and then they lash out.

I think it would be best for all parties if the Carr haters/bashers/critics would just admit to themselves that they are flaming homosexuals and then we can go forward.

Then..... and only then...... can the healing begin. :thumbup

mganz
03-20-2007, 06:41 AM
The problem is you Carr Lover's make general statements, never any specifics--i.e/, give some examples of what Carr did to get us to the 5 yd and what game it was, etc. I'd love to hear something positive from a Carr Homer about what he's done/did, etc. instead of the same old excuses about his failures. I would absolutely positively love to hear from you about the 'good stuff' Carr did last year and what he will do to help the team this year....

Calling me names and 'putting' words or thoughts in my mouth does not help your cause--give us the 'good' stuff. Too, if you check it out, posters like me generally only speak out in response to a homers post and we do it without all the put downs,name calling, 'get off the board' rhetoric posters like you spit out....

...is someone making you and your buddies read these post?

first of all, where did I call you any name?

Buffalo Game--the team drives to the 4 yard line----Cook fumbles
Giants game---team drives to the 35 Cook fumbles
Jags game---D.Carr pass deep right to A.Johnson ran ob at JAX 1 for 41 yards
D.Carr scrambles left end ran ob at JAX 9 for 13 yards
Indy Game---D.Carr pass deep middle to A.Johnson to IND 33 for 17 yards

There are some examples. I know you and everyone else, including me, can look at the same games or other games and find things that he really didn't do well but that has been well documented on this board.

NATHANHALE
03-20-2007, 08:19 AM
...never mind

thunderkyss
03-20-2007, 08:59 PM
Giants game---team drives to the 35 Cook fumbles

If you were paying attention, you'd have seen that Moulds was in the slot, lined up on a LB in man coverage. Before Carr throws the ball, in one of the replays, you can see where Moulds runs a circle around the LB, the LB is spinning around, trying to keep up with him, and falls. Moulds is wide open before David throws the ball to Jameel Cook.

Then looking at Jameel, he runs a head of the LOS, then turns and faces David. There is a LB standing behind Jameel, and to his left. Where does David throw the ball?? to Jameel's left shoulder. Not his numbers, nor away from the LB, but he "leads" Jameel right into the LB. The LB hits Cook as he turns around.

Jameel still should have held onto the ball... that's what we pay him for. Jameel still could have turned to his right, he should have known the LB was to his left, but David had no business throwing him the ball in the first place, and if he's going to throw it, he should have thrown it to his right shoulder, "leading" him away from the defense.

David had a good pocket to stand in. He could have held the ball for at least another second.

Jags game---D.Carr pass deep right to A.Johnson ran ob at JAX 1 for 41 yards


This ball was thrown way over AJ. It should have just dropped into his hands(like the many passes Grossman has thrown this year), Not only does AJ have to catch up to this ball, but it's thrown over his outside shoulder. There was no safety in the middle. & AJ was looking over his inside shoulder, but being the probowler that he is, he made the catch, and got us to the 1.

D.Carr scrambles left end ran ob at JAX 9 for 13 yards


David had a couple of nice scrambles in that game. Too bad we don't like running QBs in Houston.

There are some examples. I know you and everyone else, including me, can look at the same games or other games and find things that he really didn't do well but that has been well documented on this board.

Well..... just in case some folks missed them, I went ahead, and documented them again.

rollinstone18
03-20-2007, 09:18 PM
I don't know what you guys see in Carr other than his high salary and his misplaced hype. This team could have been .500 last year if we had decent QB play.

I guess that is excluding the two games Cook cost us?

thunderkyss
03-20-2007, 09:26 PM
I guess that is excluding the two games Cook cost us?

We had so many opportunities in both the Giants game, and the Buffalo game(188 yards rushing as a team, and 22 of 22 passing, 0 TDs, 1 Int, 1 fumble, 2 rushing TDs, 1 defensive touchdown) that you can't blame that game on Jameel Cook.

Navy_Chris
03-20-2007, 09:27 PM
We had so many opportunities in both the Giants game, and the Buffalo game(188 yards rushing as a team, and 22 of 22 passing, 0 TDs, 1 Int, 1 fumble, 2 rushing TDs, 1 defensive touchdown) that you can't blame that game on Jameel Cook.

Agreed, but Jameel's fumble at the 10 yd line (or something like that) with under 5 to go sure didn't help matters either.

thunderkyss
03-20-2007, 10:32 PM
Agreed, but Jameel's fumble at the 10 yd line (or something like that) with under 5 to go sure didn't help matters either.

True...... but when your offense can't score 14 points, it's a cop out to blame the Fullback.


You blame the coach, and you blame the QB.

texas mopar
03-20-2007, 10:46 PM
True...... but when your offense can't score 14 points, it's a cop out to blame the Fullback.


You blame the coach, and you blame the QB.

Isn't this the game DROB and company got burn to a crisp in the first 2 off. plays of the game (plenty of blame to go around) Oh let me guess that was DC fault also because DROB doesn't beleive in his teamate anymore.Our defense should never spot anybody 14 points to start the game. Had DC actually had anything to do with this - some people would have written about it for months.I beleive as long as DC is on my team I will pull for him to succeed and the minute he is gone that will change. But not until then.

mganz
03-20-2007, 10:46 PM
If you were paying attention, you'd have seen that Moulds was in the slot, lined up on a LB in man coverage. Before Carr throws the ball, in one of the replays, you can see where Moulds runs a circle around the LB, the LB is spinning around, trying to keep up with him, and falls. Moulds is wide open before David throws the ball to Jameel Cook.

Then looking at Jameel, he runs a head of the LOS, then turns and faces David. There is a LB standing behind Jameel, and to his left. Where does David throw the ball?? to Jameel's left shoulder. Not his numbers, nor away from the LB, but he "leads" Jameel right into the LB. The LB hits Cook as he turns around.

Jameel still should have held onto the ball... that's what we pay him for. Jameel still could have turned to his right, he should have known the LB was to his left, but David had no business throwing him the ball in the first place, and if he's going to throw it, he should have thrown it to his right shoulder, "leading" him away from the defense.

David had a good pocket to stand in. He could have held the ball for at least another second.

This ball was thrown way over AJ. It should have just dropped into his hands(like the many passes Grossman has thrown this year), Not only does AJ have to catch up to this ball, but it's thrown over his outside shoulder. There was no safety in the middle. & AJ was looking over his inside shoulder, but being the probowler that he is, he made the catch, and got us to the 1.
I won't argue any part of that. I think AJ is one of the better receivers in the NFL. But he did drop several balls throughout the year. Alot of those, could have made the difference.

David had a couple of nice scrambles in that game. Too bad we don't like running QBs in Houston.


Well..... just in case some folks missed them, I went ahead, and documented them again.

I think you can look at every QB/team in the nfl that makes the wrong throw, has a missed reciever or what ever.

I don't think anyone has a problem with a scrambling QB, just a running QB.

QB75
03-20-2007, 11:13 PM
Considering that there is a possibility of his starting, how mobile is Sage?
He looks like he's a little thick at the hips and waist. Do we have any 40 yard times for him? I never really saw him scramble last season, so I am curiouse.

Don't kid yourself. There is not a possibility of him starting.

keyfro
03-21-2007, 12:22 AM
i thought the main point of this thread was discussing sage's ability as our possible starting QB...not beat the carr dead horse all over again :deadhorse

the deal is that sage hasn't had the chance to really become a starter in this league...i'm not worried about what he did or didn't do in college...that was then this is now...all i know about rosenfels was in the tennessee game this past season he did just fine...in the games he played in miami the year before that i saw he did better than fine...does he give us a better chance to win...right now i'd have to say yes...he knows the guys in the locker room...the guys know that he's not a #1 pick so they might just elevate their game to help him out more they would somebody else...they know he was on the sideline helping out carr last year when he didn't have to...that a heck of a sign to the other players on this team when he could have been simply watching the game with no interest