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View Full Version : Many experts saying this is a weak Draft for OTs


nunusguy
03-16-2007, 10:16 AM
As one O-line coach beating the trails all month said, "Last year, Marcus McNeill was the 50th player selected and the fourth tackle taken off the board. I haven't seen a player like him yet."

Another line coach said, "Jeremy Trueblood was a guy I thought went too high in the draft last year as the seventh tackle taken at No. 59, but I would take him over the players I have seen right now."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10060232

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 10:22 AM
trueblood? that stiff-hipped mammoth? he likes him over joe thomas, eh?

YoungTexanFan
03-16-2007, 10:40 AM
It takes experts this long to determine that? I've been saying it for months and so have some on this board alone. When Levi Brown is mentioned as a possible top 10 pick, and Joe Staley as a possible first rounder...you know you have a weak OT class. There is Joe Thomas and then nothing. It's why the class next year is going to have at least 3 OT's rated with Joe this year. THe cream of the crop will be Gaither. After that it's a battle between Long and Baker at this point, and I would bet all three are regretting pulling their names from this draft. Also, watch out for the OT at Miami, both the Senior Trueblood and the Soph Symmonette. Both are Houston boys, and both are damn good.

keyfro
03-16-2007, 10:59 AM
well overall this is a considerable weaker OT draft class than last year...i mean last year we had ferguson, trueblood, mcneil, winston, justice, spencer, scott, etc

this year we got thomas, brown, and probably martin

staley is a guy who a lot teams are not going to like...for a lot of teams he's probably considered more of a pulling guard than a LT due to his size...remember a lot of teams don't run the zone blocking scheme and want bigger guys

tony ugoh had a chance to really excell put failed miserably at the senior bowl

ryan harris is considered soft on the field

a lot of the other tackles in this draft are probably moving to guard in the pros like blaylock, sears, hall, frye, and barbe

then we have a lot of guys who are pretty much unknown like free, henderson, koets, and taylor

so as far as this class compared to last years there is a big drop off in talent between the 2nd tackle and the third...last year that wasn't the case

Lucky
03-16-2007, 11:14 AM
Didn't Kiper say that last season's OT crop was thin? And 11 offensive tackles drafted in '06 became starters at some point in the season. There are tackles out there, it's up to good organizations to find and develop them.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 12:26 PM
last year's class was supposed to be mega-elite.

YoungTexanFan
03-16-2007, 01:26 PM
last year's class was supposed to be mega-elite.

And next years class will be pretty dang elite as well. Gaither is better than Thomas; and Baker, Long, and Trueblood are better than Levi Brown and 10x better than the other OT's this year.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 01:29 PM
Gaither is better than Thomas; and Baker, Long, and Trueblood are better than Levi Brown
no.

real
03-16-2007, 01:36 PM
And next years class will be pretty dang elite as well. Gaither is better than Thomas; and Baker, Long, and Trueblood are better than Levi Brown and 10x better than the other OT's this year.


I don't know about Gaither being better than Thomas...Thomas is a beast....He's better than D'brick, and I don't see Gaither quite on that level.....

And IMO, Levi Brown isn't better than Charles Spencer or Eric Winston who were both taken in the third...I think he's a big strong guy, but he doesn't show the footwork, and quickness I like to see out of a LT. Especially in our system.

Lucky
03-16-2007, 01:39 PM
last year's class was supposed to be mega-elite.
Said who?

There was one offensive tackle taken in the 1st round of the 2006 NFL draft. One. That was the fewest number of tackles taken in the opening round since 1990.

Yes, quite the draft expert you are.

Meloy
03-16-2007, 01:40 PM
Aren't you glad Smith took care of our LT in Free Agency?

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 01:43 PM
Said who?

There was one offensive tackle taken in the 1st round of the 2006 NFL draft. One. That was the fewest number of tackles taken in the opening round since 1990.

Yes, quite the draft expert you are.
actually i was referring to the beginning of the '05 season when it looked like there'd be as much as 5-6 OT's taken in the first round in '06. things changed. which is the point i'm making now.

and yes, i am a draft expert. thank you.

rmartin65
03-16-2007, 04:44 PM
I got a OT sleeper, Jermon Bushrod, Towson. He was a four year starter, and has good size.

HuttoKarl
03-16-2007, 04:56 PM
It takes experts this long to determine that? I've been saying it for months and so have some on this board alone. When Levi Brown is mentioned as a possible top 10 pick, and Joe Staley as a possible first rounder...you know you have a weak OT class. There is Joe Thomas and then nothing. It's why the class next year is going to have at least 3 OT's rated with Joe this year. THe cream of the crop will be Gaither. After that it's a battle between Long and Baker at this point, and I would bet all three are regretting pulling their names from this draft. Also, watch out for the OT at Miami, both the Senior Trueblood and the Soph Symmonette. Both are Houston boys, and both are damn good.

Totally off-topic, but what kind of puppy is that in your picture?

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 05:04 PM
There are tackles out there, it's up to good organizations to find and develop them.

I think you are right on the money!

Playing tackle, especially left tackle, is a skill position that requires oustandanding footwork with great hand technique. It really isn't something someone is born with, it's developed over time like in a trade (carpenter or jeweler).

Proper scouting and player development are the key ingredients.

beerlover
03-16-2007, 05:08 PM
actually this draft class is considered AVERAGE per a certain well known paid site (I'm paraphrasing) & last year was ABOVE AVERAGE maybe the reason the Texans where inclined to use both 3rd rd. picks on OT's.

after 5 years of enept, troublesome tackle production, that seemingly destroyed the #1 overall draft prospect from 2002, I'm flabbergas'ed @ the low level of knowledge about the position and the inability to grade and value it, really boggles the mind :hairpull:

Knowing what we know now one would think OT is not only a need but a priority. with only two 1st rd grades handed out to this years class if one is available when you pick he should at least be considered.

Levi Brown has excellent body control & feet. good reach, size & strength. most importantly he has the ideal mental approach & competitive drive to work hard & get better while dominating his opponents. after watching tackle prospects come & go for the last five years via the draft he is worth a top 10 grade.

D'Brickashaw Ferguson should have been considered in 06 at least in some trade down scenero, excellent in pass protection, I like the way he sets his wide base, very athletic (way more so than Joe Thomas) oh yeah but I forgot his forty time (5.31) must really have hurt his chances since we all know just how important a LT's forty time is :sarcasm: Marcus McNeil should have been a 1st rd. pick but there where health/back issues (would hope there was some medical data to support his slide to #50). the infamous trade down :embarrass bypassing DJ then seeing New Orleans draft a tackle thought only good enough to play RT was a big mistake, afterall Jammal Brown just went to the Pro-Bowl as a LT (why because they are so freakin hard to find). oh yeah the 2005 class was also considered ABOVE AVERAGE yet all we have to show for it is Drew Hodgdon.

keyfro
03-16-2007, 05:36 PM
actually this draft class is considered AVERAGE per a certain well known paid site (I'm paraphrasing) & last year was ABOVE AVERAGE maybe the reason the Texans where inclined to use both 3rd rd. picks on OT's.

after 5 years of enept, troublesome tackle production, that seemingly destroyed the #1 overall draft prospect from 2002, I'm flabbergas'ed @ the low level of knowledge about the position and the inability to grade and value it, really boggles the mind

beerlover i can't agree more...the only problem is with the signing of jordon black the staff did that to lower the need of OT in the draft...spencer will probably be ready by the season opener but not in pre-season...black will more than likely be our opening day starter at LT with winston maning the RT

that being said tackle is a position i wouldn't feel is satisfied until we have a pair of tackles we know will be here for years and who don't have constant injury problems along with blocking problems...i feel that winston is the guy at RT but LT is still a question mark...regardless whether or not spencer is able to come back this season i must admitt the staff has put is in a better situation at this position than we have been in the past...we know we have a durable back-up who can step in when needed (salaam) and we have two guys who'll battle it out for the starting job (spencer and black)

nunusguy
03-16-2007, 05:58 PM
Playing tackle, especially left tackle, is a skill position that requires oustandanding footwork with great hand technique. It really isn't something someone is born with, it's developed over time like in a trade (carpenter or jeweler).


But a player has to have the right physique (tall, atleast 6'5", and long as in long arms, large enough frame); natural foot & hand dexterity-motor skills,
a certain degree of natural muscualr strength. And the right mental disposition.
A lot of it is developed, but there are traits that the player has or doesn't have. Period.

Vinny
03-16-2007, 06:00 PM
But a player has to have the right physique (tall, atleast 6'5", and long as in long arms, large enough frame); natural foot & hand dexterity-motor skills,
a certain degree of natural muscualr strength. And the right mental disposition.
A lot of it is developed, but there are traits that the player has or doesn't have. Period.
Brad Hopkins played at a pro bowl level at 6'3" for many many years. He was a beast at LT. He was one of Mike Holovak's great picks...everyone said he reached for him when we took him....Holovak and Hopkins had the last laugh on that one.

nunusguy
03-16-2007, 06:36 PM
Brad Hopkins played at a pro bowl level at 6'3" for many many years. He was a beast at LT. He was one of Mike Holovak's great picks...everyone said he reached for him when we took him....Holovak and Hopkins had the last laugh on that one.

Sure, you're right there's exceptions. The best guy the Texans ever managed to put out there at LT was in the 6'3"-6'4" range. Its not a hard and fast rule that teams are inflexible about. But its atleast a guideline they look to, and the ideal guy they look for would definitely have dimensions that include that minimum 6'5" measurement.

Vinny
03-16-2007, 06:41 PM
Far too many times we have brought in guys with better measurables than football savvy, but last year's draft class game me some hope after pick 1. Kubiak is really laid back and the team kind of took on that personality (not a far leap from Capers to be fair)...so I just hope we find some fire for the line. Hopkins played mad and played mean, so that probably had something to do with him overcoming his ideal measurables (plus he had wonderful feet and was never on the ground)...he had a mean streak that our line could use more of (get well soon Spencer).

nunusguy
03-16-2007, 07:07 PM
Far too many times we have brought in guys with better measurables than football savvy, but last year's draft class game me some hope after pick 1. Kubiak is really laid back and the team kind of took on that personality (not a far leap from Capers to be fair)...so I just hope we find some fire for the line.

I like Kubiak as the coach, but still regret the way we squandered last years
#1 pick. Kubiak has to take some heat for that, though I realize that Casserly and McNair are also parties to that debacle.
I'm hopeful about GM Smith at the controls for key personnel decisons, and
I'm impressed with what he's done so far.

beerlover
03-16-2007, 07:53 PM
I like the attitude element of evaluating lineman. lets just start there & say you gotta love Charles Spencers attitude, from training camp thru his current rehab, you can look it up & I stated @ the time that was the single lowest point in my Texans fan lifespan when his leg got broken by Ron Dayne. anyone with half a brain could see despite his lack of evident speed, quick feet & technique he could dominate with his attitude/hand punch & tenancity.

That being said I still want to see him suceed, but its not going to help playing LT against speed rushers then mixing it up with a quick move inside. its just doubtful its gonna hold up. not that RT is a whole lot less demanding, generally you don't have to go toe to toe with their maquee pass rushing specialist.

Keyfro thats about as diplomatic and well said as can be posted but still give me a guy to solidify the line for the franchise the next 10 years first. the Texans are not gonna challenge until they can control the lines, then they can address the playmakers and glory seekers. often I think lineman are the most overlooked and rarely get the acclaim they deserve.

all I can say after five years following the Texans & the draft its never made better sense than now to solidify the line with a franchise caliber tackle, with the combination of Brown, Spencer & Winston you have the makings of what it takes to be a competitive winning organization in the NFL :twocents:

keyfro
03-16-2007, 08:17 PM
man before the jordon black signing i would have been right on board with you...having brown, spencer, and winston could give you a lot of freedom across the o-line...personally i still think spencer is most suited for the guard position...that's not to say he can't play LT he has the ability to...but in a division where we face stroud, henderson, and fat albert twice a year it would be nice to have a mean son of a gun in the middle to attack those guys

maybe we'll luck out though and spencer will recover nicely...black will be able to improve as an olineman...and somewhere down the road weary finds a position on the o-line to dominate himself...it was nice to see the guy finally get out from whatever hole he dug himself in with capers and get to start...and if he is able to move and take over the center position move spencer or black to RG i think our o-line would be much improved from last year

beerlover
03-16-2007, 09:07 PM
man before the jordon black signing i would have been right on board with you...having brown, spencer, and winston could give you a lot of freedom across the o-line...personally i still think spencer is most suited for the guard position...that's not to say he can't play LT he has the ability to...but in a division where we face stroud, henderson, and fat albert twice a year it would be nice to have a mean son of a gun in the middle to attack those guys

maybe we'll luck out though and spencer will recover nicely...black will be able to improve as an olineman...and somewhere down the road weary finds a position on the o-line to dominate himself...it was nice to see the guy finally get out from whatever hole he dug himself in with capers and get to start...and if he is able to move and take over the center position move spencer or black to RG i think our o-line would be much improved from last year

black is nothing more than insurance. not sure how much more Ephraim Salaam has in the tank the only thing for sure is Kubiak does not want to be put back into a similar situation as last year with the LT position.

could mean one of two things:

one he is focused on taking a player in another position (more than probable)
or
two trying to throw teams ahead of the Texans off the LT pathway.

the fact Kubaik was @ Quinns Pro-Day speaks volumes add to that David Carr has suffered & Gary passed on VY means even more :beer::beerfunnel: :drunk:

to me Levi is the safe offensive pick, Landry is the safe defensive pick, Quinn & Okoye the wildcards.