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Runner
03-15-2007, 06:10 PM
The fact that Robaire Smith was picked up with a four year deal made me start thinking of former Texans players who got cut and have joined up with other teams. There are a few of them scattered out there. Last year during the play-offs it was interesting to watch Gaffney and even Billy Miller contribute key catches to their new teams. I even saw Joppru make a tackle on a kickoff in a play-off game for Seattle.

Typically when a player leaves the Texans we on the board have a “good riddance” attitude. I know there are exceptions to this, but I think this is the prevailing attitude. We attribute that feeling to their cost, their poor performance, or something else associated with them. We quickly forget the euphoria of “what a great signing” or “that is a good draft pick” that accompany most players when they join the team. The new players are put high on a pedestal of expectations and then are panned when these lofty goals aren’t realized. I’m not sure this is always the right thing. I think there are several factors that make a player a success in this league, many of them out of that player’s control.

First, the player must fit the system. I think there are a few players they’ve had in the past that never should have been added to the team. Some of this may be because in the early years of the franchise the system was very fluid and was never locked in as the coaches sought ways to win. For instance, Todd Wade never should have been added to a zone blocking team – that wasn’t his game, and we blame him for his inadequacies. The coaches targeted him and the front office added him with pretty disastrous results. Who knows though – if he had fit the scheme and contributed maybe he’d appear a bargain compared to what the free agent guards are making this off-season. He’s still in the league though.

Second, most young players need development. I don’t think the Capers regime was successful in player development at all. I am hard pressed to name more than a very small number of players, draftees or free agents, who improved during their time with the Texans. Again, there are many reasons for this. I don’t think many of the coaches knew how to coach NFL level football skills and technique to the young players. They were left with what they learned in college and their own skills. I also think the previous staff placed too much emphasis on veteran players or the amount the players were making and not enough emphasis on on-field performance when determining playing time. A good example may be Gaffney – he might have blossomed here if he had gotten more time as the number two receiver, but the coaches could never get beyond Bradford as second behind Andre, despite his rather spotty performance.

I think this is improving with the new staff, but I’m not sure yet. For instance, they seem to be high on Winston now as a starter, but I don’t know if that is spin to cover their o-line woes or if they truly think he’s part of the answer. The other tackles had to be put through a meat grinder last year before they let Winston on the field; given the performance of the line last year I don’t know why the coaches’ hands had to be forced to get him playing time.

Third, they are playing for the Texans. The Texans are a losing team, which is expected for a new franchise but certainly not to the extent we’ve seen. We fans are disappointed and have seriously bad attitude issues; imagine what it is like for the players. The Texans have a losing mentality and that is extremely difficult to get over. They bring players in who swagger into the league after college success, and their spirit is usually ground down in short order. I can see the optimism on the board because the team won a couple of games at the end of last year, and crowned the season with a win against the Super Bowl Champion Colts. These have made us forget the lows of the rest of the season. I know that no matter how uplifting the big win against the Colts was for the players in the short term, they remember and feel the ineffectual performances and poor football played longer and more deeply. The win against the Raiders and first loss to the Titans are examples of the inept play that plagued the Texans last year and the players still worry about.

Playing for the Texans has also meant a player might not be supported by the best talent around him. This will only improve as a result of the players and team being better.

The signing of Steinbech surprisingly enough is an example of “but he plays for the Texans”. I was talking to person who’s NFL opinion I respect about the Steinbech signing. I suggested that Pitts may regret his signing of an extension rather than play his contract out and then hit the free agent market. I was told that Pitts is the better player, but he never would have commanded that kind of salary because he plays for the Texans. The Bengals went from rags to riches with Steinbech, and he reaped the reward. The Texans have gone from rags to rags with Pitts and he wouldn’t get the same respect. I don’t personally know if Pitts is a better player than Steinbech, but the point was well made.

In the end I think we’ll see more ex-Texans surprising us around the league as they take advantage of their new scenery and opportunities. As Texans fans we can hope that some of the players we pick up from other teams benefit from that same change of scenery as they join the Texans.

It is also important that the coaches clearly identify what they are looking for in players and that the front office start acquiring players that fit the systems. It is one of the prime jobs of the new coaching staff to identify and take advantage of their players’ skills and strengths. If they can do that, maybe the Texans can make lasting improvements to the team and stop making temporary patches.

hollywood_texan
03-15-2007, 07:44 PM
Football is a team sport that requires good players on the entire squad in the NFL.

Yet, if you look at any successful NFL team, 2 to 3 Star Players make the team a top tier squad. Without those 2 to 3 players, they are probably mediocre at best.

That is the problem with the Texans. After 5 years, they still don't have an undisputed Star Player. AJ seems to have what it takes but just doesn't seem to get over the hump to be a complete unstoppable force. Meanwhile, it's too early to tell about Demeco but he is definitely off to a GREAT START!

The best impact on a team for a Star Player is the QB position. Then you get into the David Carr discussion that he needs more help around him. Which is not a valid excuse if you are considered a Star Player. Therefore, David Carr is not a Star Player, just a role player like the rest of the team. Which is the biggest problem the Texans have, a bunch of average role players at best!

One Star Player can completely change the Texans. And, typically, Star Players are drafted not signed through Free Agency.

the wonger need food
03-15-2007, 07:48 PM
Good offseason rant.



We beat the Bears last season???

281
03-15-2007, 08:20 PM
Good offseason rant.



We beat the Bears last season???

well, we beat em in '04...

aj.
03-15-2007, 08:26 PM
Once you get used to Arial or Verdana, Times New Roman is really hard on the eyes.

Texans Horror
03-15-2007, 09:00 PM
The fact that Robaire Smith was picked up with a four year deal made me start thinking of former Texans players who got cut and have joined up with other teams. There are a few of them scattered out there. Last year during the play-offs it was interesting to watch Gaffney and even Billy Miller contribute key catches to their new teams. I even saw Joppru make a tackle on a kickoff in a play-off game for Seattle.

Typically when a player leaves the Texans we on the board have a “good riddance” attitude. I know there are exceptions to this, but I think this is the prevailing attitude. We attribute that feeling to their cost, their poor performance, or something else associated with them. We quickly forget the euphoria of “what a great signing” or “that is a good draft pick” that accompany most players when they join the team. The new players are put high on a pedestal of expectations and then are panned when these lofty goals aren’t realized. I’m not sure this is always the right thing. I think there are several factors that make a player a success in this league, many of them out of that player’s control.

First, the player must fit the system. I think there are a few players they’ve had in the past that never should have been added to the team. Some of this may be because in the early years of the franchise the system was very fluid and was never locked in as the coaches sought ways to win. For instance, Todd Wade never should have been added to a zone blocking team – that wasn’t his game, and we blame him for his inadequacies. The coaches targeted him and the front office added him with pretty disastrous results. Who knows though – if he had fit the scheme and contributed maybe he’d appear a bargain compared to what the free agent guards are making this off-season. He’s still in the league though.

Second, most young players need development. I don’t think the Capers regime was successful in player development at all. I am hard pressed to name more than a very small number of players, draftees or free agents, who improved during their time with the Texans. Again, there are many reasons for this. I don’t think many of the coaches knew how to coach NFL level football skills and technique to the young players. They were left with what they learned in college and their own skills. I also think the previous staff placed too much emphasis on veteran players or the amount the players were making and not enough emphasis on on-field performance when determining playing time. A good example may be Gaffney – he might have blossomed here if he had gotten more time as the number two receiver, but the coaches could never get beyond Bradford as second behind Andre, despite his rather spotty performance.

I think this is improving with the new staff, but I’m not sure yet. For instance, they seem to be high on Winston now as a starter, but I don’t know if that is spin to cover their o-line woes or if they truly think he’s part of the answer. The other tackles had to be put through a meat grinder last year before they let Winston on the field; given the performance of the line last year I don’t know why the coaches’ hands had to be forced to get him playing time.

Third, they are playing for the Texans. The Texans are a losing team, which is expected for a new franchise but certainly not to the extent we’ve seen. We fans are disappointed and have seriously bad attitude issues; imagine what it is like for the players. The Texans have a losing mentality and that is extremely difficult to get over. They bring players in who swagger into the league after college success, and their spirit is usually ground down in short order. I can see the optimism on the board because the team won a couple of games at the end of last year, and crowned the season with a win against the Super Bowl Champion Colts. These have made us forget the lows of the rest of the season. I know that no matter how uplifting the big win against the Colts was for the players in the short term, they remember and feel the ineffectual performances and poor football played longer and more deeply. The win against the Bears and first loss to the Titans are examples of the inept play that plagued the Texans last year and the players still worry about.

Playing for the Texans has also meant a player might not be supported by the best talent around him. This will only improve as a result of the players and team being better.

The signing of Steinbech surprisingly enough is an example of “but he plays for the Texans”. I was talking to person who’s NFL opinion I respect about the Steinbech signing. I suggested that Pitts may regret his signing of an extension rather than play his contract out and then hit the free agent market. I was told that Pitts is the better player, but he never would have commanded that kind of salary because he plays for the Texans. The Bengals went from rags to riches with Steinbech, and he reaped the reward. The Texans have gone from rags to rags with Pitts and he wouldn’t get the same respect. I don’t personally know if Pitts is a better player than Steinbech, but the point was well made.

In the end I think we’ll see more ex-Texans surprising us around the league as they take advantage of their new scenery and opportunities. As Texans fans we can hope that some of the players we pick up from other teams benefit from that same change of scenery as they join the Texans.

It is also important that the coaches clearly identify what they are looking for in players and that the front office start acquiring players that fit the systems. It is one of the prime jobs of the new coaching staff to identify and take advantage of their players’ skills and strengths. If they can do that, maybe the Texans can make lasting improvements to the team and stop making temporary patches.

Discovering and fostering talent are two of the main reasons I have my hope that last year's greatest acquisition was neither Demeco nor Mario but Kubiak. I have confidence that it is working. I attribute it to why Owen Daniels and Eric Winston did play last year. On the Winston note, I don't think he was projected to be instant-starter material. He is a project in the making. This offseason will do wonders for him. I expect him to play much better in the coming years.

Building towards the future, it seems to me the Texans have several "star" players in the making, like Demeco, AJ, and Mario. It was a bold move for the Texans to make a rookie the MLB, but it was also the kind of decision that led him to being DROY (that, and Johnny Holland pushing Kubiak to take him - Thanks Coach Holland!).

Runner
03-15-2007, 09:21 PM
We beat the Bears last season???

Oops - Raiders.

Runner
03-15-2007, 09:22 PM
Once you get used to Arial or Verdana, Times New Roman is really hard on the eyes.

I cut and paste out of Word and it was automatic. I didn't bother to edit since it puts all the font stuff at the start and end of each paragraph.

blockhead83
03-15-2007, 09:31 PM
Speaking to your point about the Texans finding good players who fit the scheme, I think so far the new regime is doing a great job of that. In the past we drafted and signed players in FA that didn't end up fitting our scheme. Part of that is just the nature of the 3-4, where the oh so critical position of OLB has to be projected from 'tweeners who played DE in college. We drafted a couple players with high expectations - Jason Babin, Antwan Peek, and Charlie Anderson to name a few - who just didn't work out well. We also missed out on some other players such as Demarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman, although that wasn't always our fault due to draft order.

Judging from what we've seen from Kubiak and Smith so far, I think they're much better at this than Capers and Casserly. It's a limited body of work, but it's all we have to go on so I'm still excited. Smith has mentioned looking for players who fit our system multiple times in past interviews since joining the Texans, and it's shown in his acquisitions. Kubiak and Smith have been criticized on this board for looking at too many ex-Broncos/Packers, but in reality they're just sticking to their word. Those are players who have proven themselves in a similar scheme to what we're trying to establish here, and as evidenced by guys such as Ephraim Salaam and Ron Dayne, they've been able to find some success. Not Pro-Bowl worthy by any means, but they allowed us to stay competitive last year. Also look at the street FA's we picked up such as Anthony Maddux and Vonta Leach who made a significant impact upon their arrival. Smith had an eye for the diamonds in the rough last season as far as FA's go. I'm still reserving my decision on Smith until after this next season, because I want to see if he has that same knack for finding talented players as the head honcho in a draft. As far as I know our scouting department is a holdover from the Casserly era, and that scares me. Can Rick Smith do what Casserly couldn't if he has the same people feeding him his information? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the scouting people..

Also, as far as temporary patches go, Smith has been doing alot of this, but I really think it's a smart strategy. Here's my thoughts on this. In past FA periods we tended to sign young players that were untouted, but were coming off of a good year and showed some potential. We invested alot of money and years in guys who we were banking on developing into (judging by their salaries) star quality players. With these new acquisitions in place like Wade, Greenwood, Smith, Walker, etc., etc., we seemed to assume they would do great and looked in a different direction in the draft. Now that Smith and Kubiak are in business, although this is also impacted by our limited cap, this is what I see going on. We're picking up veteran players like Ahman Green, Jordan Black, and Zgonina, and we're holding onto players like Salaam and ND Kalu for, aside of Green, depth purposes. Instead of trying to build a roster via FA, we're building proven depth via FA and building our talent base of future starters through the draft. I think this is a great strategy. We're not breaking the bank, and now, unlike past years where we had green late round players backing up our starters, we have savvy veterans to step in when our starters get injured or need a break.

In summary, I see us looking for depth in FA instead of reaching on players to be starters, and now with this newly acquired depth it gives us the flexibility to choose the BPA come the draft.

Please_Evolve
03-15-2007, 10:55 PM
Football is a team sport that requires good players on the entire squad in the NFL.

Yet, if you look at any successful NFL team, 2 to 3 Star Players make the team a top tier squad. Without those 2 to 3 players, they are probably mediocre at best.

That is the problem with the Texans. After 5 years, they still don't have an undisputed Star Player. AJ seems to have what it takes but just doesn't seem to get over the hump to be a complete unstoppable force. Meanwhile, it's too early to tell about Demeco but he is definitely off to a GREAT START!

The best impact on a team for a Star Player is the QB position. Then you get into the David Carr discussion that he needs more help around him. Which is not a valid excuse if you are considered a Star Player. Therefore, David Carr is not a Star Player, just a role player like the rest of the team. Which is the biggest problem the Texans have, a bunch of average role players at best!

One Star Player can completely change the Texans. And, typically, Star Players are drafted not signed through Free Agency.


damn so you mean the drafting of a reggie bush would've totally alone turned around this franchise singlehandedly.....

:ohsnap:

DocBar
03-16-2007, 09:09 AM
I don't think the struggles of our franchise has been all that extraordinary, but more the norm. Carolina and Jacksonville have been the aberrations, having early success, where most expansion teams have struggled for decades. A lot of it may have to do with the point you made about developing young talent. With an expansion team, young players are expected to deliver on potential earlier than on a more established team. You don't get the luxury of grooming a player behind an aging mentor. You have midrange talent for veterans, that would have a tough time starting anywhere else, trying to keep their starting job and not REAL interested in helping the young buck breathing down their neck and threatening them. Good drafts help moderate this, but we all know about the Texans draft history. 2 for 5 in my book. The Capers regime really put this franchise in a hole(more of an abyss, really) with its lack of player development. Hindsight being what it is, the FO should have seen this coming due to Capers record in Carolina. He was successful there with talented, overpriced veterans and ended up in salary cap hell. Those players knew their business and didn't have to coached up.
With all that said, I think our current team can come up to average with another good draft. Kubes and Co. haven't been perfect, but thye DO seem to know what they're looking for and are willing to, and ABLE to, put in the necessary work to develope our young talent. Yes, we have a long way to go, but, just maybe, we've stopped digging...

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 12:10 PM
damn so you mean the drafting of a reggie bush would've totally alone turned around this franchise singlehandedly.....

:ohsnap:

No and I don't know where you got that idea?

Actually, I thought Vince Young could have done a great deal in turning the Texans around very quickly.

Inherently, a Franchise QB is more important than any Franchise RB.

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 12:18 PM
Discovering and fostering talent are two of the main reasons I have my hope that last year's greatest acquisition was neither Demeco nor Mario but Kubiak.

Actually, I see Kubiak being as potentially becoming more of a problem than solution for the Texans.

After his first year, the Texans clearly have little faith in Carr when a year previous he was hailed a Franchise QB that could take the Texans to a Super Bowl and so they paid him $8 million. Then addition, they add Moulds for a 5th round pick and a $5 million bonus and now he is gone.

Kubiak either screwed up the talent assessment on those two players or was just a "YES MAN" to McNair. Either one is not a good way to start off your 1st year as a head coach.

If Kubiak makes decisions like these every year, or doesn't speak up when these type of decisions are made, then he and his tenure with the Texans are doomed to the same failure as Doom Capers.

I would give Kubiak a C for last year's coaching effort because of the clearly bad moves related to Carr and Moulds. A successful Franchise cannot afford to make those type of mistakes on a regular basis.

YoungTexanFan
03-16-2007, 01:20 PM
Well, in a few months, I want it to be known that I was against the signing of Green from the start. I think this was a stupid move and it will hurt us later. I also don't think he will do much better than what we have, and that Taylor will actually go on to outpreform Green this year, especially after Green is hurt again.

nunusguy
03-16-2007, 01:44 PM
Actually, I see Kubiak being as potentially becoming more of a problem than solution for the Texans.
After his first year, the Texans clearly have little faith in Carr when a year previous he was hailed a Franchise QB that could take the Texans to a Super Bowl and so they paid him $8 million. Then addition, they add Moulds for a 5th round pick and a $5 million bonus and now he is gone.
Kubiak either screwed up the talent assessment on those two players or was just a "YES MAN" to McNair. Either one is not a good way to start off your 1st year as a head coach.
If Kubiak makes decisions like these every year, or doesn't speak up when these type of decisions are made, then he and his tenure with the Texans are doomed to the same failure as Doom Capers.
I would give Kubiak a C for last year's coaching effort because of the clearly bad moves related to Carr and Moulds. A successful Franchise cannot afford to make those type of mistakes on a regular basis.
I gotta agree to a certain extent, but there's an obvious solution.
Let Kubiak take care of coaching the team, and let Rick Smith make the
personell decisions, especially the key ones, in FA and the Draft. With
input from Kubiak and his assistants of course.
I would love to know what Smith told McNair, one on one, what he thought of the Texans #1 pick last year.
You know they've had that conversation(s).

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 02:07 PM
Well, in a few months, I want it to be known that I was against the signing of Green from the start. I think this was a stupid move and it will hurt us later. I also don't think he will do much better than what we have, and that Taylor will actually go on to outpreform Green this year, especially after Green is hurt again.

The Green signing reminds me a lot of the Moulds trade last year.

The Texans didn't trade for Green, but they sure paid out a lot of money for what is an aging running back. It's not all guaranteed, but he really needs to be the undisputed starter the entire year with about 1,200 to 1,500 yards rushing to be worth the price tag.

It's decisions like these that don't pan out that will make it very difficult to crack the .500 mark next year and saddle the Franchise with dead cap space with still a hole in that position the following year. Factor in the QB mess, and you have a Franchise that just can't get the ball rolling to establish forward momentum.

I really don't have an opinion on the Green decision, but just feel it was a gutsy/risky call. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. We all know the Texans are due for a "BIG TIME BREAK".

Spike
03-16-2007, 03:30 PM
Here is my question: For those of you who think that the signing of Green was such a big mistake, what would you have liked to see the Texans do? I think most people will agree that RB is one area of the team that needs improving. The cap situation did not allow us to go after a young superstar in free agency (and I am not sure that one is available). By the time we signed Green, it was clear that AP's stock had risen and that he would not be around for the 8th pick. Is the argument that we were better off doing nothing and heading into the season Lundy, Taylor and hoping that Dayne would re-sign?

We have too many holes on our squad to fill every need with an ideal, long-term solution. In order to fix this sinking ship, we have no other choice but to implement some temporary "quick fixes", along with longer term solutions through the draft. I don't think the front office views the Green signing as a four year deal, but if we can get two good years from him and we can shore up the offensive line, we might become an attractive alternative for a big name running back in the draft or free agency...right around the time that we have some cap space to work with.

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 03:36 PM
Here is my question: For those of you who think that the signing of Green was such a big mistake, what would you have liked to see the Texans do? I think most people will agree that RB is one area of the team that needs improving. The cap situation did not allow us to go after a young superstar in free agency (and I am not sure that one is available). By the time we signed Green, it was clear that AP's stock had risen and that he would not be around for the 8th pick. Is the argument that we were better off doing nothing and heading into the season Lundy, Taylor and hoping that Dayne would re-sign?

We have too many holes on our squad to fill every need with an ideal, long-term solution. In order to fix this sinking ship, we have no other choice but to implement some temporary "quick fixes", along with longer term solutions through the draft. I don't think the front office views the Green signing as a four year deal, but if we can get two good years from him and we can shore up the offensive line, we might become an attractive alternative for a big name running back in the draft or free agency...right around the time that we have some cap space to work with.

You ask a fair question.

I am not really against the Green signing, I just think it is a risky move.

Bottom line is, the most successful teams that stay at the top draft pretty good and have 2-3 Star Players on their team. Generally, Star Players are drafted and not signed as free agents. Teams keep their Star Player until they reach an age where their production drops off.

My point is, Green's signing is not going to put the Texans over the top, it's a stop gap measure, and an expensive one at that. The Texans have to draft probably 2 more Star Players this year to get really good fast!

Demeco and AJ could be Star Players, but they just aren't there yet for varying and different reasons.

El Tejano
03-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Here is my question: For those of you who think that the signing of Green was such a big mistake, what would you have liked to see the Texans do?

Is the argument that we were better off doing nothing and heading into the season Lundy, Taylor and hoping that Dayne would re-sign?



I think the argument was probably (and this is because I heard a guy on 1300 The Zone in Austin ask this) where were we in trying to acquire if all his price tag was to only swap 2nd round picks? The argument being that Green is fumble and injury prone and he is old.

I for one like the pick, especially if we get a RB like in the second round like Kenny Irons or of course my top back Adrian Peterson.

Spike
03-16-2007, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the responses. I knew that Green had a major injury a season or two ago, but otherwise I thought he had been relatively healthy. Either way, I could certainly see the argument that he is more likely to break down at this point in his career. I didn't know he had a reputation for fumbles either.

Optimistically, I see Green as a one time pro-bowler, but at the end of the day, all of these moves are gambles. I agree with hollywood texan that, one way or the other, we have to "get the ball rolling" to establish some sort of winning "momentum." This organization failed miserably at signing more junior players to big contracts and hoping that they would become stars. As a result, we are now stuck having to cut the fat and eat big contracts that didn't work out.

I don't think we had many options, but I think the direction that we are headed - sign older players with proven track records to stop the bleeding for a year or two while we build through the draft - is the best approach to getting some winning momentum coming our way. This approach may not get us to the Super Bowl in the next two or three years, but it gives us a good chance to stay around .500 record. If some of these guys can maintain/ regain some of their form from earlier in their careers OR some of the younger players develop more quickly than we expect, we can make a run at the post-season.

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 05:53 PM
Thanks for the responses. I knew that Green had a major injury a season or two ago, but otherwise I thought he had been relatively healthy. Either way, I could certainly see the argument that he is more likely to break down at this point in his career. I didn't know he had a reputation for fumbles either.

Optimistically, I see Green as a one time pro-bowler, but at the end of the day, all of these moves are gambles. I agree with hollywood texan that, one way or the other, we have to "get the ball rolling" to establish some sort of winning "momentum." This organization failed miserably at signing more junior players to big contracts and hoping that they would become stars. As a result, we are now stuck having to cut the fat and eat big contracts that didn't work out.

I don't think we had many options, but I think the direction that we are headed - sign older players with proven track records to stop the bleeding for a year or two while we build through the draft - is the best approach to getting some winning momentum coming our way. This approach may not get us to the Super Bowl in the next two or three years, but it gives us a good chance to stay around .500 record. If some of these guys can maintain/ regain some of their form from earlier in their careers OR some of the younger players develop more quickly than we expect, we can make a run at the post-season.


The way I see it, priority #1 is getting to .500 next year and a winning season in 2008 without mortgaging the future.

Once at that point, they can talk about taking the big step.

Having said that, stay away from an expensive QB decision and continue to build the lines and really upgrade the defensive secondary. The defensive secondary as never been addressed sufficiently through the draft oustide of Dunta.

You have to build through the draft and use free agency for stop gap measures. Building a team through free agency is too expensive with marginal results. Great example of that is the Washington Redskins.

The Pencil Neck
03-16-2007, 07:58 PM
My point is, Green's signing is not going to put the Texans over the top, it's a stop gap measure, and an expensive one at that.

I don't see this as being all that expensive. We're not exactly paying him like he's Edgerrin James or Travis Henry. He counts very little against the cap and after a couple of years, we can let him go with pretty much no hit at all, right? I think that's pretty good for a guy that's being used as a stopgap measure while we address other needs.

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 08:26 PM
I don't see this as being all that expensive. We're not exactly paying him like he's Edgerrin James or Travis Henry. He counts very little against the cap and after a couple of years, we can let him go with pretty much no hit at all, right? I think that's pretty good for a guy that's being used as a stopgap measure while we address other needs.

He signed a 4 year deal for $23 million. That averages to $5.75 million a year.

Now all of that isn't guaranteed.

But, he probably got a $5 million signing bonus. He is probably guaranteed between $7 and $10 million in total.

For this to breakeven the way I see it, Green needs to be the undisputed starter for a minimum of 2 years and gain between 1,200 to 1,500 yards per year.

It's a bit risky to expect that from a back that just turned 30 on February 16 and has had few injuries and drops the rock from time to time.

Like I said, I am not against the pickup. You have to take calculated risks to improve your team. We'll see if this one pans out. I am just not going to sing any praises about Rick Smith or Gary Kubiak because of this deal. If it works, I'll start to become a follower and then maybe a disciple.

The Pencil Neck
03-17-2007, 02:21 AM
He signed a 4 year deal for $23 million. That averages to $5.75 million a year.

Now all of that isn't guaranteed.

But, he probably got a $5 million signing bonus. He is probably guaranteed between $7 and $10 million in total.

For this to breakeven the way I see it, Green needs to be the undisputed starter for a minimum of 2 years and gain between 1,200 to 1,500 yards per year.

It's a bit risky to expect that from a back that just turned 30 on February 16 and has had few injuries and drops the rock from time to time.

Like I said, I am not against the pickup. You have to take calculated risks to improve your team. We'll see if this one pans out. I am just not going to sing any praises about Rick Smith or Gary Kubiak because of this deal. If it works, I'll start to become a follower and then maybe a disciple.

I don't know all the financial details. I'm not one of the guys that keeps track of how all the financial stuff works. The guaranteed money was $6.5 million and from what I've heard, the contract is front loaded so that if he's cut after his second year, there's minimal (if any) dead money. I don't recall seeing his signing bonus.

Compared to some of the other guys on the market, I think that's pretty cheap. Travis Henry got... what... $12 million in guarantees? I haven't heard the other contracts. I think the contract we offered Green was only $3 million more overall than what Green Bay had offered him.

I agree that its a risk to offer a big contract to a guy his age but I think he does have a couple more years in the tank and I don't think that contract is as huge as the one the old regime would have given him. If he's used wisely and not used like Baltimore used Jamal Lewis or the Chefs used LJ, I think we can get those 2 years. I think he's a better first option than Dayne.