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View Full Version : Why is everyone so high on Adrian Peterson?


freedoggy77
03-15-2007, 03:09 PM
Sure, he's a great running back. However, he does have injury problems. And also, even if he falls to 8 why would the Texans pick him after signing Green? I realize Green's a veteran and will retire soon but with Peterson we would be throwing money away on Green if he doesn't play!

ThaShark316
03-15-2007, 03:13 PM
Sure, he's a great running back. However, he does have injury problems. And also, even if he falls to 8 why would the Texans pick him after signing Green? I realize Green's a veteran and will retire soon but with Peterson we would be throwing money away on Green if he doesn't play!

Green is 30...we would have a SERIOUS luxury with Peterson. Yes, he's had injury problems, but nothing is chronic nor major...he's just fine, nothing to worry about. Besides...him being injured has been some what of a blessing. If healthy, Bob Stoops wold have ran Peterson ragged.

Exithios
03-15-2007, 03:13 PM
Sure, he's a great running back. However, he does have injury problems. And also, even if he falls to 8 why would the Texans pick him after signing Green? I realize Green's a veteran and will retire soon but with Peterson we would be throwing money away on Green if he doesn't play!

:deadhorse

Dunta_23
03-15-2007, 03:13 PM
Ahman Green is the starter as of now....Who is his backup? We have Gado(undrafted), Lundy(6th rounder), Taylor(undrafted)...We need a solid #2 RB to play with Green if we are a run oriented offense...AD and Green would probably be one of the best tandems in the league...also, from what Ive heard, Greens contract is fairly inexpensive in the final 2 years, so when his play starts to decline, AD would be just getting into his prime. Also, he is an amazing RB prospect.

Vinny
03-15-2007, 03:16 PM
Sure, he's a great running back. However, he does have injury problems. And also, even if he falls to 8 why would the Texans pick him after signing Green? I realize Green's a veteran and will retire soon but with Peterson we would be throwing money away on Green if he doesn't play!so I guess a broken collarbone is a chronic injury? This just in...teams need two good backs. Please feel free to come join us in the newest NFL decade any time you please.

real
03-15-2007, 03:16 PM
Peterson doesn't make it to 8.

But for the purposes of this thread...

I wouldn't mind trading out of the pick if he DID fall...But we can't just ignore the fact that he's on the board and pass on him.

HomeBred_Texan
03-15-2007, 03:16 PM
:deadhorse

Exactly my thoughts....

Geesh, how many times do we have to cover this?

Simply put, we need a franchise RB... We don't have one. AD is the best available and we hope he falls to us at #8...

stingray
03-15-2007, 03:24 PM
:deadhorse

Is this a dead Horse? It looks more like a stubborn donkey. Anyway, they both fit in this thread.

jerek
03-15-2007, 03:26 PM
so I guess a broken collarbone is a chronic injury? This just in...teams need two good backs. Please feel free to come join us in the newest NFL decade any time you please.

I'll never understand how one injury is sufficient to tag a guy with "injury problems" ... let alone a collarbone or something totally unrelated to basic football movements ... if the guy had a massive tear of knee cartilage or something that wasn't reasonably expected to heal that would be different.

Dunta_23
03-15-2007, 03:37 PM
I'll never understand how one injury is sufficient to tag a guy with "injury problems" ... let alone a collarbone or something totally unrelated to basic football movements ... if the guy had a massive tear of knee cartilage or something that wasn't reasonably expected to heal that would be different.

You musnt have heard that he sprained his ankle either then...he must be a useless RB

humbleone
03-15-2007, 03:54 PM
Like X said, there is very little chance he will make it to 8. If he did, the value for the spot to take him would probably be too great to pass on for a team with as many holes as we have to fill.

IMO, this draft is going to be the most fun one in years due to the fact that it is looking like it is going to be a lot less predictable than normal in the first round. (even in the first 10)

kastofsna
03-15-2007, 04:01 PM
because adrian peterson is a very rare player.

infantrycak
03-15-2007, 04:04 PM
because adrian peterson is a very rare player.

Absolutely--when was the last time someone was billed as the best RB in the past decade.

Queue Homer Simpson--doooh!

PapaL
03-15-2007, 04:11 PM
So rare that a once in a lifetime RB comes out every year. Now thats rare.

Please_Evolve
03-15-2007, 04:15 PM
Free doggy get ready cause you'll hear this next year with McFadden.

nunusguy
03-15-2007, 04:16 PM
No doubt he's a tremendous running back, but has he not missed extensive
time in 2 of his 3 seasons while in college at OK ?
And did he also have a history of injuries when he played H.S. ball in Texas ?

trutxn
03-15-2007, 04:16 PM
Like X said, there is very little chance he will make it to 8. If he did, the value for the spot to take him would probably be too great to pass on for a team with as many holes as we have to fill.

IMO, this draft is going to be the most fun one in years due to the fact that it is looking like it is going to be a lot less predictable than normal in the first round. (even in the first 10)

Yeah, as if last years was so predictable. This will be a good draft because there is so much depth at a variety of positions.

Texas_Thrill
03-15-2007, 04:17 PM
Free doggy get ready cause you'll hear this next year with McFadden.

who i'm higher on than peterson especially considering peterson's injry problem.

regardless of how you feel about AP's injuries....he gets injured and misses time. i dont care if its a toenail. if you're hurt you're not playing. and he seems to have some definite moments in that department.

Battle Red Flash
03-15-2007, 04:23 PM
Sure, he's a great running back. However, he does have injury problems. And also, even if he falls to 8 why would the Texans pick him after signing Green?

He's had injuries. I would not consider it "injury problems". Most football players have had injuries. Thurman Thomas blew out his ACL in college and many passed on him til the Bills took him, and he was great.
Peterson's big, very fast, and a good kid. He'd be the future.
Green is 30, and it would not be a waste for them to split time this coming year. Then they'd both be fresh for the playoffs!

PLAYOFFS?! :)

281
03-15-2007, 04:24 PM
so he screwed up his ankle once and broke his collarbone in a freak injury and he's injury prone.... hilarious. people make it seem as if he was frank gore in college. this kid's talent is through the roof, and i honestly think he's the best back since LT to come out of college. I heard a rumor that we wouldn't take him if he fell to 8... which really worries me.

kastofsna
03-15-2007, 04:26 PM
Absolutely--when was the last time someone was billed as the best RB in the past decade.

Queue Homer Simpson--doooh!
and that has what to do with peterson?

infantrycak
03-15-2007, 04:50 PM
and that has what to do with peterson?

Hyperbole abounds. This year's subject is Peterson.

freedoggy77
03-15-2007, 04:55 PM
jeez! i'm sorry i asked. OK he is great NVM take him at 8!

281
03-15-2007, 04:57 PM
if he's there at 8 and we pass him up, i'm gonna feel about a million times worse than i did about the mario/reggie deal (which i am totally over now)... and that's hard to fathom.

humbleone
03-15-2007, 05:27 PM
Yeah, as if last years was so predictable. This will be a good draft because there is so much depth at a variety of positions.

Actually, there were not that many big surprises last year.

ReliantTexan
03-15-2007, 05:52 PM
So I guess if I fall down some stairs and break my collarbone that means I'm injury prone.Because that's basically what happened to Peterson,except there were no stairs involved,and when your at #8 you don't have the luxury to nitpick when a player of his caliber is there.

Specnatz
03-15-2007, 06:16 PM
so I guess a broken collarbone is a chronic injury? This just in...teams need two good backs. Please feel free to come join us in the newest NFL decade any time you please.

Broken collar bone in 2006 and what was the injury the previous year? So getting injured evey year is not considered injury prone?

I am not saying to take AP or not take AP but when you forget to omit facts to support your own point of few it does look like you are biassed.

Porky
03-15-2007, 06:20 PM
If he is there at #8, they have only two choices. Take him, or trade down, and it better be a good package of picks in return. My preference is that you don't pass on a franchise RB. If they take some clown from Southwest Montana State Jr College, there may be a riot.

Ole Miss Texan
03-15-2007, 06:22 PM
To be fair...I have concerns with Peterson's injuries to an extent.

No they are not knee problems or injury problems that keep recurring which is what is really scary.

But there are guys that (aren't injury prone in the sense we take it today) that just seem to get injured..whether freak or not. we all know those kids growing up that would always seem to break their bone or chip a tooth...it was something new every day. i fortunatly never really hurt myself...but had a friend who always seemed to just hurt himself..lol poor guy.

now with peterson..im not that worried. none are reoccuring or career threatening. the thing that would concern me are how these 'freak' accidents that seem to happen...if he misses games..he misses games period.

If peterson is there. we have to take him....look at it this way...

would you rather have reggie bush and gaines adams?
or Adrian Peterson and Mario Williams!!!
omg I love that idea and have gotten over the fact that he won't be a texan simply because he'll be gone and now you've got me all excited again.

Peterson is a big fast runningback that would be a huge assett..even if we drafted reggie last year. Even if he wouldn't get 30 carries because we have Green now...thats better for me...i'd give 15 to each...have each stay fresher and they would probably produce more when they are in.

stingray
03-15-2007, 06:27 PM
Broken collar bone in 2006 and what was the injury the previous year? So getting injured evey year is not considered injury prone?

I am not saying to take AP or not take AP but when you forget to omit facts to support your own point of few it does look like you are biassed.

He only missed one game before this year. Chew on that fact.

281
03-15-2007, 06:30 PM
Broken collar bone in 2006 and what was the injury the previous year? So getting injured evey year is not considered injury prone?

I am not saying to take AP or not take AP but when you forget to omit facts to support your own point of few it does look like you are biassed.

he didnt get injured his freshman yr and ran for 1900 yds. his sophomore year, he missed a few games due to an ankle sprain. his senior yr, he missed most of the season with a collarbone break (which i'm sure affects his running, right?). two injuries within the span of three years... ohhhh man!

stingray
03-15-2007, 06:41 PM
If he is there at #8, they have only two choices. Take him, or trade down, and it better be a good package of picks in return. My preference is that you don't pass on a franchise RB. If they take some clown from Southwest Montana State Jr College, there may be a riot.

Southwest Montana State Jr College. Is that the fighting Mountain Lions?

Specnatz
03-15-2007, 06:41 PM
He only missed one game before this year. Chew on that fact.

you are not counting the bowl game of 2005 season. If you get injured at the end of the season, even if it is the last game of the season, it is still an injury.

freedoggy77
03-15-2007, 08:21 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6571514 HA! this guy is smoking something! look at where AD is

bad
03-15-2007, 08:49 PM
Players I'd take over Peterson at #8:

Gaines Adams (Let's see how durable the other team's QB is)
Calvin Johnson (Overall BPA by far)
Laron Landry (Big time need, big time talent)
JaMarcus Russell (Opinions vary, but his upside is huge)
Joe Thomas (We are SO jonesing for a LT; short arms a bit of a worry)

...or a lights-out trade down.

Any of those scenarios makes me happy, but there are six players I have listed and they may all be gone. Throw in Brady Quinn who will probably also be gone (although I'm not sold on Quinn) and we may well end up choosing between Jamall Anderson, Amobi Okoye, Alan Branch, Levi Brown or my favorite, Trade Down.

ATX
03-15-2007, 09:59 PM
If Peterson is there at 8, you have to take him. With Cleveland signing Jamaal Lewis, the chance of him falling to 8 has gone up. I just hope nobody moves up and takes him ahead of us.

I wanted Derrick Thomas 2 years ago and who knows, maybe we wouldn't have drafted Demeco if we had Thomas, and I'd rather have Demeco. Our Defense would have been better if we had taken Thomas and also drafted Demeco. I wanted Bush last year, but accepted the Mario Williams pick. Yet I'd still rather have Peterson over Bush and taking him would bring some sort of redemption.

I've been high on Peterson since watching him as a freshman and remember thinking I couldn't wait until he came out of college and maybe have a chance to get him. Bottom line is Peterson has the most potential of any RB coming out, he's going to be a good one. This is coming from a Longhorn fan too, he has superstar written all over him.

Ole Miss Texan
03-15-2007, 11:46 PM
Doesn't Peterson also have screws in his shoulder..and/or had to get them tightened? I know about his ankel sprain.."injury" ...and the broken collarbone where he fell awkwardly for and awesome TD run.

If there is somebody that actually knows a lot about Peterson and his injuries can you please post them all in one post so people can read them easily? none of this he's only got 1 injury...or yeah and then this happend...lets make it clear what has happened to him in the past please.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 08:18 AM
Hyperbole abounds. This year's subject is Peterson.
yeah but it's actually true with peterson. certainly not even remotely close with reggie bush, despite the ridiculous hype.

nunusguy
03-16-2007, 08:32 AM
2004: Dislocated his left shoulder in fall drills and re-injured it several times during the season, requiring surgery in January 2005.

2005: Bothered all season by a chronic right high ankle sprain that eventually forced him to miss the Baylor game (10/22) and more than two quarters of action in each of the Kansas State (10/01), Texas (10/08) and Kansas (10/15) contests.

2006: Suffered a left collarbone fracture vs. Iowa State (10/14), sitting out the next seven contests vs. Colorado, Missouri, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State and Nebraska.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/517568
******************************************
I dunno, but does that looks like a big red flag to you ?
AD will see more hits, and definitely more big hits in an NFL preseason than
what he saw in a full season in the mediorce Big 12.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 08:35 AM
2004: Dislocated his left shoulder in fall drills and re-injured it several times during the season, requiring surgery in January 2005.

2005: Bothered all season by a chronic right high ankle sprain that eventually forced him to miss the Baylor game (10/22) and more than two quarters of action in each of the Kansas State (10/01), Texas (10/08) and Kansas (10/15) contests.

2006: Suffered a left collarbone fracture vs. Iowa State (10/14), sitting out the next seven contests vs. Colorado, Missouri, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma State and Nebraska.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/517568
******************************************
I dunno, but does that looks like a big red flag to you ?
AD will see more hits, and definitely more big hits in an NFL preseason than
what he saw in a full season in the mediorce Big 12.
the first injury is pretty moot since he played through it and was amazing during that season. again, he played through the ankle sprain in '05 and only missed a game because of it. the collarbone fracture was a freak injury and he bounced back in the boise state game. soo yeah.

a back that is "injury prone" means he has all kinds of nagging injuries. see: cadillac williams.

nunusguy
03-16-2007, 09:00 AM
he played through the ankle sprain in '05 and only missed a game because of it.
Look again, he missed "OVER HALF" of "THREE" other games in that year because of the inury.
And missing the balance of the season last year after that dive into the EZ -
I've never heard of that kind of injury after that little maneuver which
many b acks routinely do after every TD, have you ?
I'd be the first to say he's a tremendous, exciting, & dynamic talent, but I just can't rationalize away all of those injuries.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 09:10 AM
oh ok. a few quarters in some other games. gotcha. still managed to play through the injury just fine.

he dove into the endzone and landed on his collarbone.

Huge
03-16-2007, 09:16 AM
Recent history of RB's taken in the 1st and 2nd rounds, and some other notables (in order):

2006:
Reggie Bush
Laurence Maroney
DeAngelo Williams
Joseph Addai
LenDale White
Maurice Jones-Drew

2005:
Ronnie Brown
Cedric Benson
Carnell Williams
J.J. Arrington
Eric Shelton
Frank Gore - 3rd Round
Marion Barber - 4th Round

2004:
Steven Jackson
Chris Perry
Kevin Jones
Tatum Bell
Julius Jones
Michael Turner - 5th Round

2003:
Willis McGahee
Larry Johnson

2002:
William Green
T.J. Duckett
DeShaun Foster
Clinton Portis
Maurice Morris
Ladell Betts
Brian Westbrook - 3rd Round

2001:
LaDainian Tomlinson
Deuce McAllister
Michael Bennett
Anthony Thomas
LaMont Jordan
Travis Henry

2000:
Jamal Lewis
Thomas Jones
Ron Dayne
Shaun Alexander
Trung Canidate

Why any team would spend a 1st round pick (let alone a high first round pick) on a RB is beyond me. Way too much talent/depth at that position coming out of college to address it here.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 10:12 AM
ah ok. perfect logic.

bigbrewster2000
03-16-2007, 10:15 AM
Recent history of RB's taken in the 1st and 2nd rounds, and some other notables (in order):

2001:
LaDainian Tomlinson


Why any team would spend a 1st round pick (let alone a high first round pick) on a RB is beyond me. Way too much talent/depth at that position coming out of college to address it here.

I believe that is your answer right there.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 10:22 AM
2003 had a good first round, too.

Huge
03-16-2007, 10:32 AM
I believe that is your answer right there.
Sure...if you believe Peterson is on the same level of Tomlinson. I do not.

2003 had a good first round, too.
McGahee - 23rd player taken in that draft
Johnson - 27th player taken in that draft

bigbrewster2000
03-16-2007, 10:38 AM
Sure...if you believe Peterson is on the same level of Tomlinson. I do not.


McGahee - 23rd player taken in that draft
Johnson - 27th player taken in that draft

Look you said
Why any team would spend a 1st round pick (let alone a high first round pick) on a RB is beyond me. Tomlinson is that reason. Teams want a game changer like him and the teams that are picking really high in the draft are not going to have the luxury of trading all the way back into the end of the first round to select a RB. And you did not specify Peterson, you said RB which is obviously a much more broad a statement.

tulexan
03-16-2007, 10:41 AM
Don't forget Deuce either. Prior to his injury, he was a top 5 back in the league, and he seemed to regain his form this season.

Huge
03-16-2007, 10:49 AM
Want in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills faster. That's what pop always said anyways. Just because teams want a game changer like Tomlinson doesn't mean they're going to get one...no matter where they're drafting.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 12:28 PM
Sure...if you believe Peterson is on the same level of Tomlinson. I do not.


McGahee - 23rd player taken in that draft
Johnson - 27th player taken in that draft
i think peterson's a better prospect than tomlinson was. a lot will have to happen for him to be better, of course. but out of college....peterson is a better prospect.

mcgahee was slated to go #2 to the Lions before he blew his knee out.

bigbrewster2000
03-16-2007, 12:36 PM
Want in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills faster. That's what pop always said anyways. Just because teams want a game changer like Tomlinson doesn't mean they're going to get one...no matter where they're drafting.

I agree with you but, that still doesn't change the fact that teams will continue to try and get one high in the draft regardless of the amount of crap in their hand at the end of the day.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 12:38 PM
i don't believe in positional trends with drafting. not at all. there are plenty of hall of famers at the RB position that went top 10, plenty of others that weren't even drafted on the first day. same with every position. the best punter ever was a first rounder. go figure.

powerfuldragon
03-16-2007, 12:46 PM
watching highlights of this guy, he doesn't seem that fast.

Huge
03-16-2007, 01:03 PM
i think peterson's a better prospect than tomlinson was. a lot will have to happen for him to be better, of course. but out of college....peterson is a better prospect.
Fair enough...(big) difference of opinion.

mcgahee was slated to go #2 to the Lions before he blew his knee out.
Speculation, your honor.

Take a look at the top 20 rushing RBs from last season:

Ladainian Tomlinson - 5th overall
Larry Johnson - 27th overall
Frank Gore - 3rd Round
Tiki Barber (retired) - 2nd Round
Steven Jackson - 24th overall
Willie Parker - Undrafted
Rudi Johnson - 4th Round
Brian Westbrook - 3rd Round
Chester Taylor - 6th Round
Travis Henry - 2nd Round
Thomas Jones - 7th overall
Edgerrin James - 4th overall
Ladell Betts - 2nd Round
Fred Taylor - 9th overall
Warrick Dunn - 12th overall
Jamal Lewis - 5th overall
Julius Jones - 2nd Round
Joseph Addai - 30th overall
Ahman Green - 3rd Round
Duece McCallister - 23rd overall

If you break that down:

Top 5 picks - 3 (Tomlinson, James, Lewis)
Top 10 picks - 2 (Jones, F. Taylor)
Top 15 picks - 1 (Dunn)
Top 20 picks - 0
Top 25 picks - 1 (Jackson)
Top 30 picks - 3 (L. Johnson, Jackson, Addai)
2nd Round picks - 4 (Barber, Henry, Betts, Jones)
3rd Round picks - 3 (Gore, Westbrook, Green)
4th Round picks - 1 (R. Johnson)
5th Round picks - 0
6th Round picks - 1 (C. Taylor)
7th Round picks - 0
Undrafted - 1 (Parker)

Of the top 10 rushing leaders, 7 of them were drafted in the 2nd round or later.

Huge
03-16-2007, 01:06 PM
watching highlights of this guy, he doesn't seem that fast.

He is.

Champ
03-16-2007, 01:08 PM
Peterson is the best back in the draft Texans would be crazy to pass on him if he is there. Green isn't a long term solution.

powerfuldragon
03-16-2007, 01:10 PM
He is.
i dunno... on a lot of his long runs i've seen in his highlight videos, the db's eventually caught up to him.

tulexan
03-16-2007, 01:10 PM
Don't forget Shaun Alexander, another first round pick.

Huge
03-16-2007, 01:11 PM
i dunno... on a lot of his long runs i've seen in his highlight videos, the db's eventually caught up to him.

DBs can run 4.4 40s as well.

Huge
03-16-2007, 01:13 PM
Don't forget Shaun Alexander, another first round pick.

Yeah, and he was the 4th RB taken in that draft.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 01:21 PM
Fair enough...(big) difference of opinion.


Speculation, your honor.

Take a look at the top 20 rushing RBs from last season:

Ladainian Tomlinson - 5th overall
Larry Johnson - 27th overall
Frank Gore - 3rd Round
Tiki Barber (retired) - 2nd Round
Steven Jackson - 24th overall
Willie Parker - Undrafted
Rudi Johnson - 4th Round
Brian Westbrook - 3rd Round
Chester Taylor - 6th Round
Travis Henry - 2nd Round
Thomas Jones - 7th overall
Edgerrin James - 4th overall
Ladell Betts - 2nd Round
Fred Taylor - 9th overall
Warrick Dunn - 12th overall
Jamal Lewis - 5th overall
Julius Jones - 2nd Round
Joseph Addai - 30th overall
Ahman Green - 3rd Round
Duece McCallister - 23rd overall

If you break that down:

Top 5 picks - 3 (Tomlinson, James, Lewis)
Top 10 picks - 2 (Jones, F. Taylor)
Top 15 picks - 1 (Dunn)
Top 20 picks - 0
Top 25 picks - 1 (Jackson)
Top 30 picks - 3 (L. Johnson, Jackson, Addai)
2nd Round picks - 4 (Barber, Henry, Betts, Jones)
3rd Round picks - 3 (Gore, Westbrook, Green)
4th Round picks - 1 (R. Johnson)
5th Round picks - 0
6th Round picks - 1 (C. Taylor)
7th Round picks - 0
Undrafted - 1 (Parker)

Of the top 10 rushing leaders, 7 of them were drafted in the 2nd round or later.
the numbers seem to benefit drafting backs in the first round. because there's a lot more guys drafted after the first 32 picks in the NFL than first rounders, and yet 50% of the top 20 guys are from the first round. seems significant to me. i'd like to see the same numbers with other positions, too.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 01:23 PM
i dunno... on a lot of his long runs i've seen in his highlight videos, the db's eventually caught up to him.
well, DB's are pretty much as fast or faster, for one, and secondly, by the time they reach peterson, they've run about 20-30 yards while peterson has run 40 yards. they're not going toe-to-toe in a footrace.

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 01:49 PM
the numbers seem to benefit drafting backs in the first round.

Maybe the 1st round as a whole is OK but the top 5 picks and therefore instantly making a rookie one of the top paid RB's in the league is a whole different matter.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 02:07 PM
no matter what position you draft top 5, he's going to be one of the highest paid at his position, if not the highest.

a quarter of those guys were drafted in the top 10. not bad at all.

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 02:14 PM
no matter what position you draft top 5, he's going to be one of the highest paid at his position, if not the highest.

One of the highest is one thing--top picks will get paid akin to the best at LT, QB (somewhat under at this point), CB and DE. A RB on the other hand will get paid 50%+ more than the top paid RB's.

kastofsna
03-16-2007, 02:19 PM
well, that's just the way the economics are right now.

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 02:27 PM
well, that's just the way the economics are right now.

And that's why teams are better off with a Laurence Maroney or Maurice Jones Drew than Cadillac Williams.