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Runner
03-14-2007, 05:59 PM
Last year the Texans seemed to make a mistake as they handled the uncertainty surrounding DW’s ability to contribute to the team. If we board members can do without the hindsight and the “I knew he wouldn’t play” statements, we may remember that there were mixed reports during the pre-season concerning his knee.

There were reports that his knee was hurt, but with rest it would be all right. This led many to think Williams may have had a phantom training camp injury many veterans have during two-a-days - a variation on the almost proverbial “sore hamstring”. Later on his knee had to be drained after he did any drills, and pessimism started to rule. It wasn’t until his own bone-on-bone interview that the fans finally understood he was likely done.

The problem is, the team acted like they weren’t prepared for his unavailability either. They did not make a strong, or even middling move in free agency on a running back. They passed up on a highly rated running back in the draft. This made many fans comfortable with the fact the Davis was probably returning. When it became obvious that Williams wouldn’t play, they made a late acquisition of the injured Dayne and questionable trade with Green Bay to shore up the RB situation. Whether or not Dayne produced at the end of the season when healthy isn’t the question here. The point is that the Texans entered the season weak at running back because they weren’t prepared to replace Williams. Although the Texans were supposed to be a running team they entered the season in disarray. They didn’t have established runners that had practiced during the pre-season with the o-line.

This year they have much of the same situation with Spencer. Reports of his injury are sporadic and inconsistent. He may be healthy to start camp, he may start on IR, he might be done for his career.

Whatever Spencer’s status, the team is repeating some of its Williams actions. They didn’t make a strong or middling move in free agency for a starting left tackle. At best they made a middling move for a back-up. If they don’t draft a tackle, they will have Black and Salaam at one tackle and Winston at the other if Spencer doesn’t start the season. Since the coaches seem set on Winston at right tackle, that means they are going with Salaam or Black at the critical left tackle spot if Spencer is injured. Salaam was adequate last year because the team mostly ran three or less step drops. If they want to run a normal passing game with frequent five and seven step drops, both Salaam and Black will be liabilities as long term starters. If Spencer doesn’t come back at the start of the year which appears likely, the Texans look like they will have to start a weak left tackle or scramble to make a move as the season starts.

Are the Texans repeating the same mistake as last year? Do they plan on drafting an instant starter left tackle? Do they understand how Spencer really feels, or is it in the player’s best interest to be optimistic toward the team during rehab? Is this all moot because Spencer is fine?

Reddevil63
03-14-2007, 06:40 PM
In their defense, there wasn't a whole lot they could do in free agency. The top free agent linemen were getting close to $50 million contracts and we didn't have the room/weren't willing to give that to a middle of the road under acheiving tackle or guard. I think Black will do decent if he has to start and I see us getting a tackle in the middle rounds of the draft. Winston had good moments and bad moments last season, thats going to happen with any rookie. The good news is he is only going to get better. RT doesn't concern me at the moment, I am more worried about the said LT and C.

quicksilver
03-14-2007, 07:37 PM
I am more worried about the said LT and C.

I echo this concern--emphatically so at the C position. Flanagan has all the OL IQ you could ask for, but the guy was as weak as my sister last season. Pitts was continually helping him to provide any semblance of blocking in the middle. Hodgkins proved at the end of 2005 and when he was called on in 2006 that he can't play C in the NFL.

thunderkyss
03-14-2007, 07:55 PM
Are the Texans repeating the same mistake as last year? Do they plan on drafting an instant starter left tackle? Do they understand how Spencer really feels, or is it in the player’s best interest to be optimistic toward the team during rehab? Is this all moot because Spencer is fine?

I don't know if the Texans think the same way many here on this board do.

You think it's curious the Texans started the season without a bonafide veteran rusher on the roster, but would have had no problem with them drafting Reggie in lieu of a bonafide starter?? Based on Reggie's college career??

Nothing against his greatness, but he wasn't very impressive on a much better team, I doubt he'd have provided that "Homerun Threat" anymore on this team than he did on that team.

The chances that Reggie would have produced a real rushing attack on this team was only slightly greater than the probability that Wali Lundy could have proven said running game.

Who's going to start at Left Tackle?? We don't know just yet, but you think we should sell our future, trade up and Draft Robert Gallery to make sure we "look" like we understand the delima we are in??

Double Barrel
03-14-2007, 08:03 PM
They have to address LT in the draft, since it's obvious that we could not obtain anyone in FA. This has been one of our biggest, consistent weaknesses in five seasons, and at some point, they are going to have to bite the bullet and stock up on players for this position to overcome the 'Boselli curse'.

As much promise as Spencer showed, we still have to operate like he is not returning. They simply cannot repeat the same rookie mistakes every year, and given the importance of this position, I wouldn't mind us 'over doing it' to ensure we've got quality players in both starting and backup roles. I'm still not convinced that Salaam or Black will fit the bill as consistent starters.

thunderkyss
03-14-2007, 08:08 PM
In their defense, there wasn't a whole lot they could do in free agency. The top free agent linemen were getting close to $50 million contracts and we didn't have the room/weren't willing to give that to a middle of the road under acheiving tackle or guard. I think Black will do decent if he has to start and I see us getting a tackle in the middle rounds of the draft. Winston had good moments and bad moments last season, thats going to happen with any rookie. The good news is he is only going to get better. RT doesn't concern me at the moment, I am more worried about the said LT and C.

Edited to remove foot from mouth.

DocBar
03-14-2007, 08:08 PM
If Spencer doesn't return this year or any other and we don't draft the next Boselli, I wouldn't mind the OL looking lik this

Pitts Winston Khalil????? Weary Salaam/Black

We have as bad or worse options at center. I guess if we don't get Khalil, McKinney bck to center(please don't hate me) I feel this lineup would give us the best chance to succeed.

Texans Horror
03-14-2007, 08:27 PM
I don't know if the Texans think the same way many here on this board do.

You think it's curious the Texans started the season without a bonafide veteran rusher on the roster, but would have had no problem with them drafting Reggie in lieu of a bonafide starter?? Based on Reggie's college career??

Nothing against his greatness, but he wasn't very impressive on a much better team, I doubt he'd have provided that "Homerun Threat" anymore on this team than he did on that team.

The chances that Reggie would have produced a real rushing attack on this team was only slightly greater than the probability that Wali Lundy could have proven said running game.

Who's going to start at Left Tackle?? We don't know just yet, but you think we should sell our future, trade up and Draft Robert Gallery to make sure we "look" like we understand the delima we are in??

I don't think that's what Runner meant. I think he meant that the Texans screwed up on running back last year. DW didn't come back, and it crippled the team, which was left scrambling for running backs in the weeks leading up to and the first weeks after the start of the season. I think Runner is saying that a similar situation is developing with left tackle and maybe, with the wisdom gained from last year, they should take a closer look at the left tackle spot and realistically consider what they are going to put on the field.

Here's a line idea. See if anybody likes it. Other teams have used multi-back systems to combine injured/rookie/old linemen. The Texans should do the same thing with the left tackle. Throughout the game rotate Salaam, Black, and Spencer. Since none of them have shown that they are the "it" tackle to overcome the curse, have them all try!

And yeah, I would have bet Reggie Bush would be a pretty good running back based on his college career and heisman trophy. Not much else to look at except combine numbers.

thunderkyss
03-14-2007, 08:35 PM
The good news is he is only going to get better. RT doesn't concern me at the moment, I am more worried about the said LT and C.

Now, What if Kubiak comes from a philosophy that it's cheaper(and more effective) to build them, than to buy them.

What I mean by this... I used to work in a shipyard, & we couldn't afford the rate a good electrician would get in one of the plants, or construction, so most of the times, our Electricians didn't stay very long(Free Agency).

I started hiring kids out of highschool, with the aptitude to be good electricians.

We'd end up loosing them, but since I took the approach to teach them a trade, we were able to keep them longer, and we got better quality employees.

Now imagine if Kubiak drafted two high LT prospects in '06, then signed an adequate RT in the '07 offseason.

Reddevil63
03-14-2007, 08:53 PM
Now imagine if Kubiak drafted two high LT prospects in '06, then signed an adequate RT in the '07 offseason.
Well Spencer was drafted to play LT and Winston was going to be a swing tackle so it could be argued that they did. Before Winston blew his knee out, he was a first round prospect. People say alot about his arms being to short, yada yada, if he can play he can play, so I wouldn't mind seeing him taking some reps at LT this preseason and seeing what happens. Thats assuming the tackle situation is the same in camp as it is now.

Runner
03-14-2007, 09:40 PM
I don't think that's what Runner meant. I think he meant that the Texans screwed up on running back last year. DW didn't come back, and it crippled the team, which was left scrambling for running backs in the weeks leading up to and the first weeks after the start of the season.

I either meant that or this was a cleverly disguised Reggie Bush thread.


I don't understand all this "draft the next Gallery" stuff. Maybe they'd draft the next good one.

srstex
03-14-2007, 10:09 PM
I think the Black pick up is better then most believe mainly because he played at LT/RT/LG and that means that we have opportunities to play with the line more. Winston can play LT and with the time in the games at RT that I saw, we ran better behind him. So Salaam can play/teach, Winston can play/learn, Black can play and hop from position to position, and Pitts is our Iron Man. Is this a great line ? NO, but it is the best we have ever had, which isn't saying much but after Boselli, Pitts, Wand, Riley, Pitts again, Spencer, and Salaam at LT, I feel a lot more comfortable that the coaches have at least made an attempt to improve the line. I believe Sherman has had more input this off season. Two more notes, Leach is in NY with the Giants as a restricted free agent working out, this man we NEED to keep. Some may rememeber Todd Wade, he just signed with the Redskins 2yrs some 4-6 million, I prefer Winston.

Mr. White
03-14-2007, 10:11 PM
I either meant that or this was a cleverly disguised Reggie Bush thread.


I don't understand all this "draft the next Gallery" stuff. Maybe they'd draft the next good one.

It's obvious that this is really a Levi Brown thread. :jk:

Serious question especially for Runner (although I'd like to get other opinions as well)....do you think that the Texans wouldn't be reaching to take him at 8? Especially since Rick Smith has talked so much about drafting BPA as opposed to reaching for need.

Are there any other Charles Spencers in the later rounds? Or better yet, any Marcus McNeills?

nunusguy
03-14-2007, 10:14 PM
Bush would have been a valubale offensive weapon for the Texans had they drafted him, but either Maroney, Addai, or Maurice Drew would have been a more prodiuctive running back and a better replacement for DW aka DD.
Reggie is fun to watch in NOLA, but everybody knows that Duece does the
heavy lifting.
As far as the Texans plans for LT this season, the Texans new regime is playing it very close to the vest and we could well be surprised with their ultimate solution for 2007.
They really had no options in FA, even if they had far more cap resources
than what they had. Dang, the Cowboys threw 16 M guaranteed at the best
FA OT, and he's gonna play guard for them.
"Plan for the worst, hope for the best" is probably thier strategy for Spencer. But they have other possible internal options - the might reconsider Chester and they've been raving about Winston lately.
And I'm confidant they will Draft a LT the first day. Just don't know how high ?

Runner
03-14-2007, 10:45 PM
Serious question especially for Runner (although I'd like to get other opinions as well)....do you think that the Texans wouldn't be reaching to take him at 8? Especially since Rick Smith has talked so much about drafting BPA as opposed to reaching for need.

Are there any other Charles Spencers in the later rounds? Or better yet, any Marcus McNeills?


No answer. I don't project college talent into the pros very well. I don't watch enough college football. Opinions are so regional that I don't put much stock in very many mock drafts or discussions here either. I'm sure most peole were stunned at the Demco pick last year, to say nothing about Spencer.

threetoedpete
03-15-2007, 12:34 AM
No answer. I don't project college talent into the pros very well. I don't watch enough college football. Opinions are so regional that I don't put much stock in very many mock drafts or discussions here either. I'm sure most peole were stunned at the Demco pick last year, to say nothing about Spencer.

Well we got guys that thrive on the draft. Live for it. Many threads on the other board. My Team and Detroit is not going to go into a bidding war, I slap the five year old wound with Joe Thomas. Not at any cost, but at a reasonable cost. I cannot watch every game and I have to trust guys like NFLnetworks Mayock. All he does is watch film of these guy from August to March. Someone may fly under his radar, but it's unlikely. The rankings of all the OLTs have not moved since December. ... on anyones board.

The deal with the o-line was when we came into the league we were hit with two very weak classes. How much the promise of Bosselli's chance at playing was part of their thought process the first two offseasns is anybody's guess. Regaurdless whether they wanted to fill the need or not, there just wasn't a lot of tallent to work with for the left side in those two draft classes. Hitting Pitts was shear good fortune.

This year, because a couple of the prime juniors went back...that makes this class weak on OLTs as well. It's loaded with day one RT and gaurd prospects.

So the chioces as I see it to fix it...You live with it, gamble on Spencer's leg. Or you fix it. Fixing it is going to hurt. I've waited five years, I can wait one more. Move up, move down, I'm on board. But there are consequences.

1. Move up and drive a stake through the heart of this beast and take Thomas. Detroit wants out of the slot. Whether or not they've got the bandit's mask on is anyones guess ? You by pass the tallent on the board in the second round and the tallent there is considerable. We're not getting three starters if we go that route. Also it's very likly you'd have to sweeten the pot with a high pick next year as well. That is not good. You think Quinn and All day, are hot prospects...wait untill next off season.

2. You stand pat and take Levi Brown. He's not the lock that Joe Thomas is. However, he's a better athlete in my opinion that McNeil was when he came out. Levi will Not have LT behind him also, that will make a difference. I would not be shocked if arizona trys to deal down a bit to target Levi Brown.

3. You by pass the extrodanary tallent sitting at the thiry-nine and Take one of the next two Prospects, Staley or Doug Free. Both of these guys are close enough to Wand to scare me. Staley won't be there in the third. Free might.
Only four of them that have a chance to plug and play in '07. If you had that need on your ball club how long would you wait to snatch one up ? I've seen Ugoh and Sears being rated high enough for the thiry nine. Sears, as with Blailock, is a very versitle o-lineman who belongs at the gaurd and RT positons. Don't be too shocked if the wolf in New England takes one of those two at the 28. He has a nasty habit in shoring up his o-line with versitle high end tallent. Ugoh is local and I love picking local guys, but he is very, very raw. He's as much to be a pro bowler as he is to bust. Athleticly he is only behind Joe Thomas. Football wise, I got him ranked around the fifth round guys. He's a true hit or miss prospect.

4. You draft for effect this year, do not address olt, get as much tallent as you can where you can. Maybe take a fifth rounder for cause.

What I see happening...and I'm certainly no Egar Casey...Spencer's leg is injured. Kubes' going out of his way to beat the Spencer will be back at 100% down at every oportunity prety much convinces me of that. To me he's litteraly saying..."Don't count on it. "

He's a warior and all, but how many consecutive games on those thirty some thing legs ? If they do go for BPA, don't reach for the two second teird guys, what you have is Salaam as the Starter with Black as the back up. You're not going to see anyone taken this year beyond the second round at OLT untill '08. What I'm reading is they are saying Salaam's legs are not likly to go many more games as the stater with out an injury. They are hedging their bets. That is what the Black signing was for. So they aren't in the middle of October...and looking for someone to gaurd the QBs blind side off of the street. And no Pitts is not an option. They've been doing everything they could for three season to avoid that. There is a reason these professional football people keep him at LG.

To answer you're original question, they're lucky enough to add Kalil and at least, get one piece solved this draft I would be happy. If you take Kevin Kolb in the second...you can pretty much whipe that happy thought off the dry board. The odds of Free much less Staley being there in the third at the 71 are very long. At the present time the mocks have Staley going to the bucs at the top of the second and Kalil could go anywhere from Baltimore on.

The fifth round guys, including Ugoh, would be a true hell mary if they hit one. Could happen. Odds are they won't. I know I cut a prety comical cracter on here banging for Levi Brown. I can see what's coming though and it isn't very prety. All Day and Leron are very supreme prospects. At the eight they should be. Starting over with Quinn, that's fine too. The o-line though is the little engine. That's what pulls the offensive load. Sooner we fix it the better off we're going to be. That is what is going to put the 8-8 seasons in our rear veiw mirror. Fixing the offensive line. I can see the arguement of taking BPA at the defensive line. I can see the arguement of moving down and infusing the squad's roster with young tallent. But untill someone bows their neck, the five hundered pound gorrilla in the living room is the offensive line. Doesn't matter how good a prospect they get at the eight . We're going to be NFL mediocre untill they fix it.

Please_Evolve
03-15-2007, 01:08 AM
Well we got guys that thrive on the draft. Live for it. Many threads on the other board. My Team and Detroit is not going to go into a bidding war, I slap the five year old wound with Joe Thomas. Not at any cost, but at a reasonable cost. I cannot watch every game and I have to trust guys like NFLnetworks Mayock. All he does is watch film of these guy from August to March. Someone may fly under his radar, but it's unlikely. The rankings fo all the OLTs have not moved since December. ... on anyones board.

The deal with the o-line was when we came into the league we were hit with two very weak classes. How much the promise of Bosselli's chance at playing was part of their thought process the first two offseasns is anybody's guess. Regaurdless whether they wanted to fill the need or not, there just wasn't a lot of tallent to work with for the left side in those two draft classes. Hitting Pitts was shear good fortune.

This year, because a couple of the prime juniors went back...that makes this class weak on OLTs as well. It's loaded with day one RT and gaurd prospects.

So the chioces as I see it to fix it...You live with it, gamble on Spencer's leg.Or you fix it. I've waited five years, I can wait one more. Move up, move down, I'm on board. But there are consequences.

1. Move up and drive a stake through the heart of this beast and take Thomas. Detroit wants out of the slot. Whether or not they've got the bandit's mask on is anyones guess ? You by pass the tallent on the board in the second round and the tallent there is considerable. We're not getting three starters if we go that route. Also it's very likly you'd have to sweeten the pot with a high pick next year as well. That is not good. You think Quinn and All day, are hot prospects...wait untill next off season.

2. You stand pat and take Levi Brown. He's not the lock that Joe Thomas is. However, he's a better athlete in my opinion that McNeil was when he came out. Levi will Not have LT behind him also, that will make a difference. Iwould not be shocked if arizona trys to deal dwon a bit to target Levi Brown.

3. You by pass the extrodanary tallent sitting at the thiry-nine and Take one of the next two Prospects, Staley or Doug Free. Both of these guys are close enough to Wand to scare me. Staley won't be there in the third. Free might.
Only four of them that have a chance to plug and play in '07. If you had that need on your ball club how long would you wait to snatch one up ? I've seen Ugoh and Sears being rated high enough for the thiry nine. Sears, as with Blailock, is a very versitle o-lineman who belongs at the gaurd and RT positons. Don't be too shocked if the wolf in New England takes one of those two at the 28. He has a nasty habit in shoring up his o-line with versitle high end tallent. Ugoh is local and I love picking local guys, but he is very, very raw. He's as much to be a pro bowler as he is to bust. Athleticly he is only behind Joe Thomas. Football wise, I got him ranked around the fifth round guys. He's a true hit or miss prospect.

4. You draft for effect this year, do not address olt, get as much tallent as you can where you can. Maybe take a fifth rounder for cause.

What I see happening...and I'm certainly no Egar Casey...Spencer's leg is injured. Kubes' going out of his way to beat the Spencer will be back at 100% down at every oportunity prety much convinces me of that. To me he's litteraly saying..."Don't count on it. "

He's a warior and all, but how many consecutive games on those thirty some thing legs ? If they do go for BPA, don't reach for the two second teird guys, what you have is Salaam as the Starter with Black as the back up. You're not going to see anyone taken this year beyond the second round at OLT untill '08. What I'm reading is they are saying Salaam's legs are not likly to go many more games as the stater with out an injury. They are hedging their bets. That is what the Black signing was for. So they aren't in the middle of October...and looking for someone to gaurd the QBs blind side off of the street. And no Pitts is not an option. They've been doing everything they could for three season to avoid that. There is a reason these professional football people keep him at LG.

To answer you're original question, they're lucky enough to add Kalil and at least, get one piece solved this draft I would be happy. If you take Kevin Kolb in the second...you can pretty much whipe that happy thought off the dry board. The odds of Free much less Staley being there in the third at the 71 are very long. At the present time the mocks have Staley going to the bucs at the top of the second and Kalil could go anywhere from Baltimore on.

The fifth round guys, including Ugoh, would be a true hell mary if they hit one. Could happen. Odds are they won't. I know I cut a prety comical cracter on here banging for Levi Brown. I can see what's coming though and it isn't very prety. All Day and Leron are very supreme prospects. At the eight they should be. Starting over with Quinn, that's fine too. The o-line though is the little engine. That's what pulls the offensive load. Sooner we fix it the better off we're going to be. That is what is going to put the 8-8 seasons in our rear veiw mirror. Fixing the offensive line. I can see the arguement of taking BPA at the defensive line. I can see the arguement of moving down and infusing the squad's roster with young tallent. But untill someone bows their neck, the five hundered pound gorrilla in the living room is the offensive line. Doesn't matter how good a prospect they get at the eight . We're going to be NFL mediocre untill they fix it.


I think that was one of the most well thought posts on this..ever. If i could i'd send rep your way.

Ibar_Harry
03-15-2007, 02:49 AM
Last year the Texans seemed to make a mistake as they handled the uncertainty surrounding DW’s ability to contribute to the team. If we board members can do without the hindsight and the “I knew he wouldn’t play” statements, we may remember that there were mixed reports during the pre-season concerning his knee.

There were reports that his knee was hurt, but with rest it would be all right. This led many to think Williams may have had a phantom training camp injury many veterans have during two-a-days - a variation on the almost proverbial “sore hamstring”. Later on his knee had to be drained after he did any drills, and pessimism started to rule. It wasn’t until his own bone-on-bone interview that the fans finally understood he was likely done.

The problem is, the team acted like they weren’t prepared for his unavailability either. They did not make a strong, or even middling move in free agency on a running back. They passed up on a highly rated running back in the draft. This made many fans comfortable with the fact the Davis was probably returning. When it became obvious that Williams wouldn’t play, they made a late acquisition of the injured Dayne and questionable trade with Green Bay to shore up the RB situation. Whether or not Dayne produced at the end of the season when healthy isn’t the question here. The point is that the Texans entered the season weak at running back because they weren’t prepared to replace Williams. Although the Texans were supposed to be a running team they entered the season in disarray. They didn’t have established runners that had practiced during the pre-season with the o-line.

This year they have much of the same situation with Spencer. Reports of his injury are sporadic and inconsistent. He may be healthy to start camp, he may start on IR, he might be done for his career.

Whatever Spencer’s status, the team is repeating some of its Williams actions. They didn’t make a strong or middling move in free agency for a starting left tackle. At best they made a middling move for a back-up. If they don’t draft a tackle, they will have Black and Salaam at one tackle and Winston at the other if Spencer doesn’t start the season. Since the coaches seem set on Winston at right tackle, that means they are going with Salaam or Black at the critical left tackle spot if Spencer is injured. Salaam was adequate last year because the team mostly ran three or less step drops. If they want to run a normal passing game with frequent five and seven step drops, both Salaam and Black will be liabilities as long term starters. If Spencer doesn’t come back at the start of the year which appears likely, the Texans look like they will have to start a weak left tackle or scramble to make a move as the season starts.

Are the Texans repeating the same mistake as last year? Do they plan on drafting an instant starter left tackle? Do they understand how Spencer really feels, or is it in the player’s best interest to be optimistic toward the team during rehab? Is this all moot because Spencer is fine?

Actually this goes back to day 1 when they took Carr and had Mr. B as the LT. If you recall he seemed to have some injuries and we never had a backup plan. Yes, in retrospect this has been the Texans mode of operations all along. Go figure if you can, but they seem to have a real problem with planning as you have pointed out so well. I really don't feel this coaching staff is much different from the previous staff.

TK_Gamer
03-15-2007, 03:57 AM
the whole problem with the draft is, noone knows much, its all speculation clouded by smoke and mirrors. if this happens and that happens and so on and so on. if you trade up you hurt yourself next year for someone who could be a bust, cuz yes ANYONE in the draft can be bust. you trade down and you get more of less. so most big deals happen ON draft day and you cant predict it most of the time. with all the dead money the team has they are crippled in FA. and only time will heal that one. if we take bpa this year we may get lucky and we may not. but even if we move our position on draft day it doesnt guarantee anything. heck AP has injury problems, joe thomas has injury problems. half the draft class has at least potential injury problems. we will see how we did once the season starts , thats the way it allways is.

texasguy346
03-15-2007, 07:11 AM
LT is still a need, and we most definately need to address it during the offseason. I like the pickup of Black not because I think he's the answer to our LT problems, but because he provides us depth at a reasonable price. We're still desperate for help on the OLine, but just not as desperate as we were before picking up Black.

You'd think that the front office would learn from it's mistake last year, and I guess we'll see how much they learned as the offseason progresses.

HOU-TEX
03-15-2007, 09:56 AM
I posted this in another thread. I still feel the same.:)

Look, I'm ok with the signing of Black. I look at it as depth and competition. I'm just saying if we're counting on him being a starter going into this season, then we didn't do a good job this off-season at that position. Unless they think Spencer's coming back. Which Kubiak has said he wasn't counting on injured players this off-season.

threetoedpete
03-15-2007, 12:22 PM
the whole problem with the draft is, noone knows much, its all speculation clouded by smoke and mirrors. if this happens and that happens and so on and so on. if you trade up you hurt yourself next year for someone who could be a bust, cuz yes ANYONE in the draft can be bust. you trade down and you get more of less. so most big deals happen ON draft day and you cant predict it most of the time. with all the dead money the team has they are crippled in FA. and only time will heal that one. if we take bpa this year we may get lucky and we may not. but even if we move our position on draft day it doesnt guarantee anything. heck AP has injury problems, joe thomas has injury problems. half the draft class has at least potential injury problems. we will see how we did once the season starts , thats the way it allways is.

So what you're posting...and correct me if I'm wrong....Mr McNair, from your perspective is waisting his dollars on all for these college scouts and coaches to diagnose the tallent this off season whom he is going to pay next season in the draft. According to you it would be just as effeicent to list everyone's name on the wall through the dart blind folded, and take who they prick ...because "anyone can get hurt " ? is that what you're posting ? I dissagree. Under your scenario...colts by pass Payton Manning...because in you draft world, he had an injury history and Ryan Leaf would of been the most effecient choice.

Agreed: The draft is an Art not a science. All you can do is poke and prod and watch the film. In the end it's just your best educated guess. But Joe Thoams and Calvin Johnson aren't just sitting at the top of the board because someone got a whim. People have watched them and have determinded they are the best prosoects to come out at their positions who translates into a pro bowl/HOF canidate at their position at the next level in a while. That gives them a better margin of being bust proof than all the rest.
That's what you are paying for. The judgement of your people to determine who can make the transition and how well they make it. I think your atitude on the draft is a bit obtuse, frankly.

Specnatz
03-15-2007, 02:23 PM
The rankings of all the OLTs have not moved since December. ... on anyones board.

The deal with the o-line was when we came into the league we were hit with two very weak classes. How much the promise of Bosselli's chance at playing was part of their thought process the first two offseasns is anybody's guess. Regaurdless whether they wanted to fill the need or not, there just wasn't a lot of tallent to work with for the left side in those two draft classes. Hitting Pitts was shear good fortune.

This year, because a couple of the prime juniors went back...that makes this class weak on OLTs as well. It's loaded with day one RT and gaurd prospects.

So the chioces as I see it to fix it...You live with it, gamble on Spencer's leg. Or you fix it. Fixing it is going to hurt. I've waited five years, I can wait one more. Move up, move down, I'm on board. But there are consequences.

1. Move up and drive a stake through the heart of this beast and take Thomas. Detroit wants out of the slot. Whether or not they've got the bandit's mask on is anyones guess ? You by pass the tallent on the board in the second round and the tallent there is considerable.

2. You stand pat and take Levi Brown. He's not the lock that Joe Thomas is. However, he's a better athlete in my opinion that McNeil was when he came out. Levi will Not have LT behind him also, that will make a difference. I would not be shocked if arizona trys to deal down a bit to target Levi Brown.

3. You by pass the extrodanary tallent sitting at the thiry-nine and Take one of the next two Prospects, Staley or Doug Free. Both of these guys are close enough to Wand to scare me. Staley won't be there in the third. Free might.
Only four of them that have a chance to plug and play in '07. If you had that need on your ball club how long would you wait to snatch one up ? I've seen Ugoh and Sears being rated high enough for the thiry nine. Sears, as with Blailock, is a very versitle o-lineman who belongs at the gaurd and RT positons. Don't be too shocked if the wolf in New England takes one of those two at the 28. He has a nasty habit in shoring up his o-line with versitle high end tallent. Ugoh is local and I love picking local guys, but he is very, very raw. He's as much to be a pro bowler as he is to bust. Athleticly he is only behind Joe Thomas. He's a true hit or miss prospect.

4. You draft for effect this year, do not address olt, get as much tallent as you can where you can. Maybe take a fifth rounder for cause.

What I see happening...and I'm certainly no Egar Casey...Spencer's leg is injured. Kubes' going out of his way to beat the Spencer will be back at 100% down at every oportunity prety much convinces me of that. To me he's litteraly saying..."Don't count on it. "

He's a warior and all, but how many consecutive games on those thirty some thing legs ? If they do go for BPA, don't reach for the two second teird guys, what you have is Salaam as the Starter with Black as the back up. You're not going to see anyone taken this year beyond the second round at OLT untill '08. What I'm reading is they are saying Salaam's legs are not likly to go many more games as the stater with out an injury. They are hedging their bets. That is what the Black signing was for. So they aren't in the middle of October...and looking for someone to gaurd the QBs blind side off of the street. And no Pitts is not an option. They've been doing everything they could for three season to avoid that. There is a reason these professional football people keep him at LG.

To answer you're original question, they're lucky enough to add Kalil and at least, get one piece solved this draft I would be happy. If you take Kevin Kolb in the second...you can pretty much whipe that happy thought off the dry board. The odds of Free much less Staley being there in the third at the 71 are very long. At the present time the mocks have Staley going to the bucs at the top of the second and Kalil could go anywhere from Baltimore on.

The fifth round guys, including Ugoh, would be a true hell mary if they hit one. Could happen. Odds are they won't. I know I cut a prety comical cracter on here banging for Levi Brown. I can see what's coming though and it isn't very prety. All Day and Leron are very supreme prospects. At the eight they should be. Starting over with Quinn, that's fine too. The o-line though is the little engine. That's what pulls the offensive load. Sooner we fix it the better off we're going to be. That is what is going to put the 8-8 seasons in our rear veiw mirror. Fixing the offensive line. I can see the arguement of taking BPA at the defensive line. I can see the arguement of moving down and infusing the squad's roster with young tallent. But untill someone bows their neck, the five hundered pound gorrilla in the living room is the offensive line. Doesn't matter how good a prospect they get at the eight . We're going to be NFL mediocre untill they fix it.

As far as the old regime goes they did not take anyone hardly on day one, and that has been the issue. Ok so a guy is not listed as a first round talent but there has been so many lineman drafted in the second and later rounds that become very good starters for other teams. Why? Because they developed the player. Mike Sherman has worked with an O0line long enough he knows how to get the most out of an O-line, plus with John Benton, that is why you have the coaches work with certain positions is to teach the young guys.

I have been a big opponnet of taking Levi Brown for a long time but I would not be upset with taking Landry or Quinn either. I would preferr taking a QB in second or third because then you can get immediate help then draft a QB to work with and mold to how you want him to play.

I honestly do not think the coaches are just sitting around waiting on Spencer to see if he is healed, if they were they would not have resigned Salaam and signed Black. Yes they are not elite Lineman but they are insurance and also guys who can help a young rookie if they go that route.

You mention Ugoh as a fith rounder? WOW I would be totally shocked if he fall that far, for everything I have read he is a 2nd rounder. If the Texans do not take Levi Brown in the first he would not get pst them in the second.

real
03-15-2007, 02:30 PM
I don't think the Texans look for an OT before round 4.

Porky
03-15-2007, 02:52 PM
I don't think the Texans look for an OT before round 4.

I think it all depends on value. I could see them taking a tackle in round 1, or not at all. They need to let the draft come to them, and not force a pick based solely on need. I feel that gets teams into trouble.

keyfro
03-15-2007, 11:09 PM
the draft is a huge unknown...right now OT is not a position that i would put at the top of the list of needs...however i think if there is a guy available that they thought would be able to challenge our guys and presents great value for the pick and there isn't a guy on the board they have listed higher than him then that's the pick...all the jordon black signing does is gives us more options and allows us to go after BPA without reaching for an OT

as far as DW/spencer...they did go into last draft with the thought that DD would be available and it did influence their decision...they are not making that same mistake this year with spencer or DW...give kubiak a little break on this one...it was his first offseason as the HC...and he had casserly giving him advice as to what to do with the personnel here