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Buffi2
03-14-2007, 09:11 AM
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/85795

The Cardinals have also been talking intermittently with the agent of restricted free agent fullback Vonta Leach, who was tendered an offer by the Houston Texans.

Signing Leach would not only mean coming up with an offer to prevent the Texans from matching, but also making an offer Leach would find agreeable. Another anonymous fullback, Ovie Mughelli, got an astounding $18 million free-agent contract with Atlanta.

Sigh.

gsbtxn
03-14-2007, 09:35 AM
I'm going to be some kind of ticked off if the Cardinals offer him a contract with a "poison pill" in it... We need Leach to be a Texan.

texanfan2002114
03-14-2007, 09:35 AM
according to Mark Berman last night of Fox 26 here in Houston. There are about 4 or 5 teams interested in Leach. The Texans did tender him the min. of around $850,000 and have the right to match any other offer but will not get compensated if he goes elsewhere.

From the report last night he is scheduled to meet with the Giants today and then i think denver then dallas and like the article above says get an offer from the arizona.

Yankee_In_TX
03-14-2007, 10:02 AM
I'm having a brain fart; who was the FB I wanted to kill last year?

hadaad
03-14-2007, 10:07 AM
I'm having a brain fart; who was the FB I wanted to kill last year?

Likely Jameel "Fumblitis" Cook

Texan_Bill
03-14-2007, 10:10 AM
Likely Jameel "Fumblitis" Cook

that would be him..........

hadaad
03-14-2007, 10:12 AM
that would be him..........

Just thinking about that guy makes me get angry. Is he still a Texan?

wrestler4life
03-14-2007, 10:13 AM
Well, I think that we are either going to have to shell out more than we wanted, or eat it on this one.

texanfan2002114
03-14-2007, 10:13 AM
Just thinking about that guy makes me get angry. Is he still a Texan?


he is still listed on the roster

Texan_Bill
03-14-2007, 10:18 AM
Just thinking about that guy makes me get angry. Is he still a Texan?

Funny you asked, because I just checked out the depth chart and he is not listed, but he is listed on the roster and on houstonprofootball.com unofficial salary cap.

Depth Chart:
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/depth_chart.php?section=TH%20Depth%20Chart

Roster:
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster.php?section=TH%20Players
Unofficial Salary Cap:
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html

hadaad
03-14-2007, 10:21 AM
Maybe he'll be shown the door June 2.

Yankee_In_TX
03-14-2007, 10:21 AM
Funny you asked, because I just checked out the depth chart and he is not listed, but he is listed on the roster and on houstonprofootball.com unofficial salary cap.

Depth Chart:
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/depth_chart.php?section=TH%20Depth%20Chart

Roster:
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster.php?section=TH%20Players
Unofficial Salary Cap:
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html

I checked the roster and noticed Leech was the only FB listed. I guess Cook caused me selective memory loss, lol.

ArlingtonTexan
03-14-2007, 10:43 AM
Funny you asked, because I just checked out the depth chart and he is not listed, but he is listed on the roster and on houstonprofootball.com unofficial salary cap.

Depth Chart:
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/depth_chart.php?section=TH%20Depth%20Chart

Roster:
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster.php?section=TH%20Players
Unofficial Salary Cap:
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html


That dpeth chart still has Ron Dayne and Peek on it.

HJam72
03-14-2007, 10:49 AM
I think we should pretty much meat ANY offer that leach gets from other teams. I feel very confident about his future as an all around fullback.

Mr. White
03-14-2007, 10:51 AM
The depth chart stays the same until the next game. I remember Wells still being on it after he got released last year and people were trying to read something into it.

My Hero
03-14-2007, 10:59 AM
I think we should pretty much meat ANY offer that leach gets from other teams. I feel very confident about his future as an all around fullback.


I agree 100%, this guy works well in the system and he runs people over. If they don't keep him it will go down as another front office blunder.

Texan_Bill
03-14-2007, 11:01 AM
That dpeth chart still has Ron Dayne and Peek on it.

lol... I didn't even notice that.
Well, at least we know which one has NOT been updated.

cj5776
03-14-2007, 11:18 AM
I think Cook finished the year on the IR, that's why

Koolaid Time
03-14-2007, 11:45 AM
[QUOTE=Buffi2;626495]http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/85795

[I Another anonymous fullback, Ovie Mughelli, got an astounding $18 million free-agent contract with Atlanta.[/I]

Insanity.. We are glad we signed Green when we did

aj.
03-14-2007, 11:45 AM
Cook is on the Texans roster. He's signed though '10. Leach is the only other FB on the roster - at least for now.

O.G.
03-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Cook is on the Texans roster. He's signed though '10. Leach is the only other FB on the roster - at least for now.

I hope we get Leach back as well, but if not then maybe we will draft a Hybrid Fullback like the kid from Rutgers. I saw him up close at the Texas Bowl in Reliant and he is something serious. Doesn't hurt that he runs a 4.4 and shows pretty good blocking skills. Wouldn't be a bad reach for a 3rd rd pick if available. Notice this is only if we don't get Leach, lol.

Exithios
03-14-2007, 12:15 PM
I hope we get Leach back as well, but if not then maybe we will draft a Hybrid Fullback like the kid from Rutgers. I saw him up close at the Texas Bowl in Reliant and he is something serious. Doesn't hurt that he runs a 4.4 and shows pretty good blocking skills. Wouldn't be a bad reach for a 3rd rd pick if available. Notice this is only if we don't get Leach, lol.

I like the Brian Leonard pick as well, the kid also has excellent receiving hands.

ib4texans
03-14-2007, 12:23 PM
Bring back Leach!


I don't want to look for a replacement.

I want the guy that caught that TD vs Indy and said "Step Off"

Scooter
03-15-2007, 01:44 AM
losing leach would easily be the worst move of the offseason. cook is absolutely horrible, where leach was overwhelmingly dominant and didnt drop a single pass or fumble. we use way too many two-back sets to make fullback less than a high offensive priority, and one that we already have the perfect guy to fill the spot.

along those lines, i'd lobby hard to keep dayne as well to be green's backup.

O.G.
03-15-2007, 10:55 AM
picking brian leonard would be sweet as well, that's a dude who looks like he's ready to put some damage on a couple of defenses.

Yeah I saw that happen up close and in person at the Texas Bowl.

El Tejano
03-15-2007, 10:58 AM
Aren't some of our TEs supposed to be ready to fill that role as well? If I am not mistaken they thought about putting Putzier back there last season also right?

threetoedpete
03-15-2007, 11:04 AM
I like the Brian Leonard pick as well, the kid also has excellent receiving hands.

@ 228, Leonard is now playing the Role of Jim Kick. You're telling me you want him as the peice of the running back suffle rather than over paying for someone at running back , ok I'm on board. You're telling me he's going into the hole to blast out a NFL LB on an iso play, nope. Not going to happen.

I can't add much to the Leach perspective that has not already been expressed. Out side of Kalu, I would of thought leach would of been the first guy re signed. the only thing I can figgure is that they believe the FB spot is a plug and play slot. They're not going to over pay for one. From my perspective, anyone that made Dayne look good was worth a bump.

ArlingtonTexan
03-15-2007, 11:09 AM
[QUOTE=threetoedpete;627642
I can't add much to the Leech perspective that has not already been expressed. Out side of Kalu, I would of thought leech would of been the first guy re signed. the only thing I can figgure is that they believe the FB spot is a plug and play slot. They're not going to over pay for one. From my perspective, anyone that made Dayne look good was worth a bump.[/QUOTE]


I think there is a good amount truth here, but of course, there is the issue that the Texans may have already overpaid on FB.

Panther5407
03-15-2007, 11:09 AM
Do ya'll think that the Texans would ever draft a FB in the late rounds? Cause the FB from A&M (Chris Alexander) absolutely plows people over. Check out the two TD runs in the A&M and he flattens out the defender each time to break the run. Makes sense cause he just benched 470 or somewhere around that so he has strength and he can catch ver well out of backfield. I don't mean to turn this into a A&M or UT thread or anything, I just was looking for some thought on it cause fullbacks aren't drafted all that often from what I see.

Specnatz
03-15-2007, 12:49 PM
I want Leach back as well but for some reason we do not I do like a guy out of Air Force

Jacobe Kendrick
Born: May 3, 1984
Hometown: Midland, TX
Height: 6-0
Weight: 230 lbs

2006 84att 384yds 4.6 24 2 2rec 9yds 4.5 7 1

Was used as a blocker primarily but I saw him play twice and I like what he did but of course I am not sure what he runs or how well he could be included into the pass catching phase of the offense.

ATX
03-15-2007, 01:10 PM
Do ya'll think that the Texans would ever draft a FB in the late rounds? Cause the FB from A&M (Chris Alexander) absolutely plows people over. Check out the two TD runs in the A&M and he flattens out the defender each time to break the run. Makes sense cause he just benched 470 or somewhere around that so he has strength and he can catch ver well out of backfield. I don't mean to turn this into a A&M or UT thread or anything, I just was looking for some thought on it cause fullbacks aren't drafted all that often from what I see.

They drafted a FB back in their first draft, Jarrod Baxter like in the 5th or 6th round. I think he was around for 2 years and they cut him.

TexansCM
03-15-2007, 01:14 PM
Everyone keeps saying we should have resigned Leach, we need to keep him. Well maybe Leach or a better guess, his agent is looking for the the most money. We don't know if the Texans made an offer and he is just weighing his options.

nunusguy
03-15-2007, 01:24 PM
Everyone keeps saying we should have resigned Leach, we need to keep him. Well maybe Leach or a better guess, his agent is looking for the the most money. We don't know if the Texans made an offer and he is just weighing his options.

This is one explanation, and I hope its the right one because Leach did something last year I've seen few NFL FBs do - be a playmaker.
He really made a few memorable runs and catchs and yea, bone-crusher blocks routinely. And unlike Cook, no fumbles or other miscues IIRC ?
And he's young, I'm thinking only 25 or 26 ?
Smith looking out for the Texans and Leach looking out for himself. That's
how its suppose to work.
But the Texans will have the chance to match the best offer out there, so they are in the drivers seat.

MATRIX
03-15-2007, 01:41 PM
I hope we get Leach back as well, but if not then maybe we will draft a Hybrid Fullback like the kid from Rutgers. I saw him up close at the Texas Bowl in Reliant and he is something serious. Doesn't hurt that he runs a 4.4 and shows pretty good blocking skills. Wouldn't be a bad reach for a 3rd rd pick if available. Notice this is only if we don't get Leach, lol.

Well, the 3rd is "planned" everyone thinks is fr a QB to develop.

But, yea we could get one in the 4th...a guy from Nebraska is 6' 1 5/8" and 245, and runs a 4.46 40. And lays people out...I belive his name is Todd Wade or Wade Todd. Look up his combine #'s, the guy is a beast.

True, with a guy that big and fast, he reminds me odf a larger and faster Allstot(sp). I doubt he'd be around in the 4th, so unless we do take a QB in the 1st or dig in the 2nd...I doubt we could get him. We could get someone in the 4th-7th anyway that could plow over a D...but they would be lacking either speed or catching/carring ability.

Look up the guy from Nebraska, see what you think he is huge.

SamuraiSword
03-15-2007, 01:47 PM
Dump Cook!!! and extend Leach!!!!!

UHHEAVEN
03-15-2007, 01:50 PM
Leach is 25 years old, with alot of good years behind him. But I don't think it will be with the Texans. I heard from a very reliable source he is signing with the Browns and the Texans haven't made an offer yet. Letting Leach go will just be another mistake the texans are going to have to answer for when the season takes a ugly turn again. :wild: :confused:

infantrycak
03-15-2007, 01:54 PM
We don't know if the Texans made an offer and he is just weighing his options.

Yes we do know they made a tender. The Texans will have the right to match any offer he receives.

I heard from a very reliable source he is signing with the Browns and the Texans haven't made an offer yet.

Might want to downgrade the reliability of that source--he has been tendered an offer.

281
03-15-2007, 01:54 PM
Leach is 25 years old, with alot of good years behind him. But I don't think it will be with the Texans. I heard from a very reliable source he is signing with the Browns and the Texans haven't made an offer yet. Letting Leach go will just be another mistake the texans are going to have to answer for when the season takes a ugly turn again. :wild: :confused:

we can match their offer.

MATRIX
03-15-2007, 02:04 PM
Leach is 25 years old, with alot of good years behind him. But I don't think it will be with the Texans. I heard from a very reliable source he is signing with the Browns and the Texans haven't made an offer yet. Letting Leach go will just be another mistake the texans are going to have to answer for when the season takes a ugly turn again. :wild: :confused:



Just curious, what source do you have that would know this? Unless they are in the FO of Cleveland or Houston. How would they know?

UHHEAVEN
03-15-2007, 02:17 PM
Sports journalist in Cleveland

gsbtxn
03-15-2007, 02:26 PM
As others have said, we have tendered Leach a qualifying offer. We have the right to match any contract that he may reach with another team. The tricky part is if a team adds a "poison pill" into the contract. Meaning they could say if he plays 4 games in the state of Texas he gets x amount of bonus or the whole contract is guaranteed...

Specnatz
03-15-2007, 05:34 PM
Sports journalist in Cleveland

That is an oxy moron.

dirty steve
03-15-2007, 06:51 PM
Giants | Leach visits team
Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:49:29 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans) visited the New York Giants.

keyfro
03-15-2007, 08:29 PM
leach is a guy that we need not because he's young but because he did everything they were expecting cook to do...he blocked extremely well...i think he surprised come people by his catching abilities...he wasn't asked to run the ball which is fine...but leach is a guy who needs to be brought back due to his ability to be a factor in the running game with his blocking...the guy looked like a smaller guard leading the way...his blocking was far superior to cook's and i think he was a reason our running game took off towards the end of the season

Texan_Aggie222
03-15-2007, 08:34 PM
I'm just going to throw this name out there........William Henderson

keyfro
03-15-2007, 08:42 PM
haven't we signed enough old guys on this team this offseason...just a thought...how about we keep the guy we know fits the system and can stay in it for a couple of years

tsip
03-15-2007, 10:10 PM
haven't we signed enough old guys on this team this offseason...just a thought...how about we keep the guy we know fits the system and can stay in it for a couple of years

...good idea but that's not Kubiak's style as RB's are a 'dime a dozen' to him

Ole Miss Texan
03-15-2007, 11:37 PM
What if Kubiak is thinking of drafting FB/RB Brian Leonard in the 2nd round? :stirpot:

coachdent
03-16-2007, 06:40 AM
What if Kubiak is thinking of drafting FB/RB Brian Leonard in the 2nd round? :stirpot:


Leach is better than Leonard. Leonard wants to play tailback and not fullback. He won't play NFL football if he sticks to his guns and doesn't play fullback. He'll see the light, but his heart is not into it. I think he is extremely overrated.

O.G.
03-16-2007, 07:59 AM
I want Leach back here as well, but as was once mentioned here earlier, NFL is a business and he's exploring all of his options to get paid. That's why there hasn't been anything in writing contract wise on any other teams yet. Once he get his market value, the Texans will match it and that will be the end of discussion.

nunusguy
03-16-2007, 08:07 AM
What if Kubiak is thinking of drafting FB/RB Brian Leonard in the 2nd round? :stirpot:

Given that we have very pressing needs at QB, OT, weakside DE, FS, CB,
WR, and our top FA pick-up this year was Ahman Green, do you really think the Texans have the luxury of using their 2nd round pick on a tweener running back OMT ?

Texan_Bill
03-16-2007, 08:32 AM
Leach is 25 years old, with alot of good years behind him. But I don't think it will be with the Texans. I heard from a very reliable source he is signing with the Browns and the Texans haven't made an offer yet. Letting Leach go will just be another mistake the texans are going to have to answer for when the season takes a ugly turn again. :wild: :confused:

I'm confused. I thought the Texans tendered Leach and therefore can match any offer made by another team... Is this correct? If so, how is that this source says that Leach will sign with the Browns...

keyfro
03-16-2007, 09:45 AM
I'm confused. I thought the Texans tendered Leach and therefore can match any offer made by another team... Is this correct?

yup that's correct we have the ability to match any offer before allowing him to move on...the only thing is that if the let's say the browns were to sign him to contract they could put a poison pill in it where the texans would have to garentee the entire contract...most teams are very scared to do that with injuries...so if they did sign him i would think it would be 50/50 on our chances of matching the offer

Specnatz
03-16-2007, 11:26 AM
yup that's correct we have the ability to match any offer before allowing him to move on...the only thing is that if the let's say the browns were to sign him to contract they could put a poison pill in it where the texans would have to garentee the entire contract...most teams are very scared to do that with injuries...so if they did sign him i would think it would be 50/50 on our chances of matching the offer

I thought the NFL put rules into play about poison pill langauge so that contracts like that of Hutchinson would not take place anymore?

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 11:33 AM
I thought the NFL put rules into play about poison pill langauge so that contracts like that of Hutchinson would not take place anymore?

No they have not, but the GM's all got together and were for the most part PO'd about the incident. Most have refrained from using it so far this year.

keyfro
03-16-2007, 12:35 PM
yeah and even bitter divisional rivals such as the patriots and the dolphins have taken great strides not to do each other like that by "trading" my boy wes welker...it's unlikely that a franchise would do that to us for a FB but if they did they would send a signal to the rest of the league about the way they deal

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 12:51 PM
wait, how can the browns (or any other team) put a clause in a texan's player contract for any reason?

in that case, peyton manning is owed a million-billion dollars so sayeth the texans.

Leach has been given a tender offer by the Texans. He is free to negotiate a deal with any other team in the league. The Texans then have the option to match if he reaches an agreement with another team.

My Hero
03-16-2007, 12:54 PM
What if Kubiak is thinking of drafting FB/RB Brian Leonard in the 2nd round? :stirpot:



I can think of other positions that I would want filled with a 2nd round choice.

The Pencil Neck
03-16-2007, 02:10 PM
wait, how can the browns (or any other team) put a clause in a texan's player contract for any reason?

in that case, peyton manning is owed a million-billion dollars so sayeth the texans.

It's because he's a restricted free agent. According to the rules, the player can go to another team and the team can put a contract on the table for that player. The original team can keep the player by basically offering him the same exact contract. So the "new" team puts a clause in the contract saying something like "if you play 8 games in the City of Houston during any season, we will pay you a bazillion dollars." Since the player won't play that many games in Houston if he signs with the new team, they're not really going to pay him that. But because it's in the contract, Houston has to offer him the same deal and they'll have to pay him a bazillion dollars to stay.

At least, that's my understanding of the "poison pill".

El Tejano
03-16-2007, 02:16 PM
So what's the deal with Leach, he leaving or what?

keyfro
03-16-2007, 05:19 PM
kffl.com has reported that the giants have made leach an offer

Giants | Team makes offer to Leach
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:42:29 -0700

Darren Urban, of the East Valley Tribune, reports the New York Giants have made an offer to restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans), according to his agent.

Runner
03-16-2007, 05:22 PM
I thought he was a bright spot last year. The Texans need to keep him.

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 05:49 PM
I thought he was a bright spot last year. The Texans need to keep him.

At the right price.

HuttoKarl
03-16-2007, 05:52 PM
kffl.com has reported that the giants have made leach an offer

Giants | Team makes offer to Leach
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:42:29 -0700

Darren Urban, of the East Valley Tribune, reports the New York Giants have made an offer to restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans), according to his agent.

I hope it's not an offer we have to refuse.

TEXANRED
03-16-2007, 05:54 PM
I hope it's not an offer we have to refuse.

what would the comp be for losing Leach?

aj.
03-16-2007, 05:59 PM
what would the comp be for losing Leach?

Zero in terms of draft picks since he wasn't drafted and received the minimum tender.

But then there's always the top secret supplemental pick formula ... but I don't expect that he would garner much if anything there either.

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 05:59 PM
what would the comp be for losing Leach?

A hardy nothing. Leach was undrafted and was given a minimum tender which carries only an opportunity to match.

dalemurphy
03-16-2007, 06:05 PM
A hardy nothing. Leach was undrafted and was given a minimum tender which carries only an opportunity to match.

If we would've tendered him more, would we have the opportunity for draft-pick compensation- given the fact that he was undrafted?

In other words, if we offered him the highest tender, would we be in line for a 1st and a 3rd had someone signed him away? How does that work?

aj.
03-16-2007, 06:07 PM
Here's the quote from the East Valley Tribune writer:

Ralph Vitolo, the agent for restricted free agent fullback Vonta Leach, said he had not talked much with the Cardinals in the past week after Leach’s visit with the team. Vitolo said Leach has visited Cleveland and the New York Giants and could also visit Dallas. The Giants have put a “nice” offer on the table for Leach, Vitolo said.

Nice to see our crack Chronicle staff all over this....not......

Do they even care that they are getting scooped by a Cardinals beat writer on one of our own guys free agent status? I just listened to McClain and he was in FL watching the Astros - after seeing a movie this afternoon of course.

A word to the wise .... sometimes the Kffl headline writers embelish a bit. It's always best to go to the source - in this case the East Valley Trib. The kffl guys are not reporters pounding pavement or breaking anything. They are a bunch of guys cruising the internet and posting things they find in other media sources. They are a player info clearinghouse - and a very good one at that, where you can one-stop shop - but again, sometimes their interpretation of source articles and the headlines they generate sway off course a bit.

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 06:14 PM
If we would've tendered him more, would we have the opportunity for draft-pick compensation- given the fact that he was undrafted?

In other words, if we offered him the highest tender, would we be in line for a 1st and a 3rd had someone signed him away? How does that work?

Yes, any RFA regardless of original draft status can be tendered at the mid level (1st round pick compensation) or high (1st and 3rd). It is just a question of how much money and I suspect Kubiak would like to keep him but still sees Cook as the more versatile player.

aj.
03-16-2007, 06:18 PM
Yes, any RFA regardless of original draft status can be tendered at the mid level (1st round pick compensation) or high (1st and 3rd). It is just a question of how much money and I suspect Kubiak would like to keep him but still sees Cook as the more versatile player.


The RFA tender stuff changed last year. They added a 2nd round tender. From the '06 CBA:

(b) In order to receive the following specified Rights of First Refusal and/or Draft Choice Compensation
with respect to a Restricted Free Agent, the Prior Club of a Restricted Free Agent must tender the player a
Qualifying Offer on or before the first date of the Restricted Free Agent Signing Period, as follows:

(i) For Restricted Free Agents with three Accrued Seasons:

(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least $721,600 for the
2006 League Year, $850,000 for the 2007 League Year, $927,000 for the 2008 League Year, $1,010,000 for the
2009 League Year, $1,101,000 for the 2010 League Year, $1,200,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $1,308,000
for the 2012 League Year, as applicable;

(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract
with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) the amount set forth in Subsection (b)(i)(1) above, or (b) 110% of the
player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms
of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this Subsection is subject to the rules of
Subsection (c) below);

(3) Right of First Refusal, One Second Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph
5 Salary of at least (a) $1,300,000 in the 2007 League Year, $1,417,000 in the 2008 League Year, $1,545,000 in
the 2009 League Year, $1,684,000 in the 2010 League Year, $1,835,000 in the 2011 League Year, or
$2,000,000 in the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary,
whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are
carried forward unchanged;

(4) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a
Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $1,573,000 for the 2006 League Year, $1,850,000 for the 2007 League Year,
$2,017,000 for the 2008 League Year, $2,198,000 for the 2009 League Year, $2,396,000 for the 2010 League
Year, $2,611,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $2,846,000 for the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b)
110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all
other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged

(5) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one
year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $2,096,600 for the 2006 League Year, $2,350,000
for the 2007 League Year, $2,562,000 for the 2008 League Year, $2,792,000 for the 2009 League Year,
$3,043,000 for the 2010 League Year, $3,317,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $3,616,000 for the 2012 League
Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in
addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged;

Vinny
03-16-2007, 06:20 PM
Yes, any RFA regardless of original draft status can be tendered at the mid level (1st round pick compensation) or high (1st and 3rd). It is just a question of how much money and I suspect Kubiak would like to keep him but still sees Cook as the more versatile player.
There are some nice FB prospects in this draft too. I love the kid from Tennessee Cory Anderson and the local kid here at UH (Battle)...both would be a great 6th round selections and both have some receiving skills.

Lucky
03-16-2007, 06:21 PM
In other words, if we offered him the highest tender, would we be in line for a 1st and a 3rd had someone signed him away? How does that work?
No team would place a tender that high on a FB. But a 2nd round tender is $1.3 million. That would have kept the dogs off Leach, and given the Texans another year of evaluation before deciding to offer him a long term deal.

infantrycak
03-16-2007, 06:26 PM
The RFA tender stuff changed last year. They added a 2nd round tender. From the '06 CBA:

Oops--thanks.

keyfro
03-16-2007, 06:57 PM
apparently he hasn't recieved an offer now

Giants | Leach has not received offer yet
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:19:17 -0700

Updating a previous report, Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the New York Giants have not offered a contract to restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans). The Giants may have told Leach what the offer may be, but will not give him the offer sheet until they are sure he will sign.

aj.
03-16-2007, 07:16 PM
Again, keep in mind what agents do ... and don't get too crazy on kffl headlines ... and look for more definitive information, keywords and phrases in the source reports such as "offer sheet" and "signed."

Dunta_23
03-16-2007, 08:59 PM
Cowboys | Team has shown interest in Leach
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:03:25 -0700

Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the Dallas Cowboys have shown interest in restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans).
__________________________________________________ ____________

Chiefs | Team has shown interest in Leach
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:59:32 -0700

Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have shown interest in restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans).
__________________________________________________ ____________

Ravens | Team has shown interest in Leach
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:59:02 -0700

Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the Baltimore Ravens have shown interest in restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans).
__________________________________________________ _____________

Texans | Team has shown interest in Leach
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:58:26 -0700

Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the Houston Texans have shown interest in re-signing restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans).

__________________________________________________ ___________
Browns | Leach visited team
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:57:54 -0700

Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans) has visited with the Cleveland Browns.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Giants | Leach has not received offer yet
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:19:17 -0700

Updating a previous report, Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports the New York Giants have not offered a contract to restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans). The Giants may have told Leach what the offer may be, but will not give him the offer sheet until they are sure he will sign.

TexansSB07
03-16-2007, 10:03 PM
NY Giants say they told Vonta what they offering, BUT won't put out offer sheet as they think he will take it to Texans give them a chance to match it.

Cowboys, Chiefs, Ravens all talking about Vonta, but no visits scheduled yet...I think Texans told him find best deal and come back we will work on something to retain you:yahoo:

The Pencil Neck
03-17-2007, 02:00 AM
NY Giants say they told Vonta what they offering, BUT won't put out offer sheet as they think he will take it to Texans give them a chance to match it.

Cowboys, Chiefs, Ravens all talking about Vonta, but no visits scheduled yet...I think Texans told him find best deal and come back we will work on something to retain you:yahoo:

He's a restrictied free agent. Whatever the Giants offer him, they automatically get a chance to match it.

quicksilver
03-17-2007, 03:04 AM
The Giants may have told Leach what the offer may be, but will not give him the offer sheet until they are sure he will sign.

That strikes me as hilarious. The Texans have tendered an offer. That's all Vonta has until the Giants give him their offer sheet. They can hold out all they want--if Vonta doesn't have their offer, he can accept the Texans' or sit out. And I'm certain he's not sitting out.

281
03-17-2007, 05:06 PM
http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/2007/03/16/giants-offer-fb-leach-a-con%3Cstrong%3Etract/

so did they make an offer or not?...

keyfro
03-17-2007, 05:57 PM
if they've made an offer it doesn't sound like leach has signed it...if something is going to happen it'll probably wait til monday or tuesday...the chronicle mentioned that now that they've re-signed dayne smith has turned his attention to leach...so maybe smith will get his deal done soon

281
03-17-2007, 07:58 PM
the chronicle mentioned that now that they've re-signed dayne smith has turned his attention to leach

where?

keyfro
03-17-2007, 08:36 PM
While I've been watching the Astros, Texans general manager Rick Smith has been busy signing and trying to sign players. He agreed with running back Ron Dayne on Friday night. They might be able to re-sign fullback Vonta Leach next week even though he's been pursued by several teams. The Texans wouldn't have won six games without Dayne. And Leach brings an attitude into games. It's the kind of attitude more of his teammates need.

that's the part of the article from mcclain that i got it from and here's the link to it

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/03/heaven_is_talking_texans_and_a.html

i know it doesn't sound definate but you can get a feel that rick smith is going to get the job done with leach

UHHEAVEN
03-19-2007, 10:32 AM
The Giants have offered restricted free agent fullback Vonta Leach a contract.

Here the site: http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/2007/03/16/giants-offer-fb-leach-a-contract/

We are on a count down!!!!! :poker:

Carr Bombed
03-19-2007, 10:57 AM
Smith better match the offer.

HJam72
03-19-2007, 11:01 AM
I think this is going to show me a lot about what kind of decision makers we have on this staff. I can't imagine the Giants paying Leach more than I would want us to meet.

texans83
03-19-2007, 11:09 AM
We have to match their offer. With out Leach we would have never beat the Colts IMO

Wolf
03-19-2007, 11:22 AM
Houston flavor

Savage said the Browns could end up with another fullback after releasing Terrelle Smith last week. They are showing interest in Vonta Leach, a restricted free agent from the Texans who visited last week.

If the Browns sign Leach, he would be the fourth player to have played for the Texans signed by the Browns in free agency. Defensive end Robaire Smith, linebacker Antwan Peek and cornerback Kenny Wright are the others


http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18094630&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46370&rfi=6

HJam72
03-19-2007, 11:26 AM
Houston Broncos and Cleveland Broncettes. :joker:

AtheGreat
03-19-2007, 11:28 AM
Houston flavor

Savage said the Browns could end up with another fullback after releasing Terrelle Smith last week. They are showing interest in Vonta Leach, a restricted free agent from the Texans who visited last week.

If the Browns sign Leach, he would be the fourth player to have played for the Texans signed by the Browns in free agency. Defensive end Robaire Smith, linebacker Antwan Peek and cornerback Kenny Wright are the others

haha, you know a team sucks when they pick up our leftovers. at least we get the scraps from decent teams like GB and Denver. Like Stuart Scott said, "there's College football, the Browns, then the NFL."

anyway, leech will be back in a texans uni by the end of the week. Smith will get it done.

alphajoker
03-19-2007, 11:43 AM
anyway, leech will be back in a texans uni by the end of the week. Smith will get it done.

Hope you're right man.

valleytexfan
03-19-2007, 11:44 AM
Hope you're right man.

Definitely +1

ib4texans
03-19-2007, 11:51 AM
Checking the blogs they really think that he's a great fit for their system, there is a lot of support for the attempt to pick him up.

Come on FO keep your eye on the ball and don't play games.

http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/2007/03/16/giants-offer-fb-leach-a-contract/

cj5776
03-19-2007, 11:57 AM
would we get draft picks if Leach is signed?

aj.
03-19-2007, 11:57 AM
The Giants have offered restricted free agent fullback Vonta Leach a contract.

Here the site: http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/2007/03/16/giants-offer-fb-leach-a-contract/

We are on a count down!!!!! :poker:

Look at the source and date of this claim. Ernie Palladino's entry could very well be based on the same comment made by Leach's agent that appeared in the East Valley Tribune last week (the comment that Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News later rebuffed).

Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true. I'll wait until I see this corroborated by another reputable source.

Wolf
03-19-2007, 12:03 PM
would we get draft picks if Leach is signed?
from what i heard/read.. no because Leach was undrafted

TEXANRED
03-19-2007, 12:06 PM
Look at the source and date of this claim. Ernie Palladino's entry could very well be based on the same comment made by Leach's agent that appeared in the East Valley Tribune last week (the comment that Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News later rebuffed).

Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true. I'll wait until I see this corroborated by another reputable source.

Maybe if you were still our VOF we would have the inside scoop. So its your fault we dont know.:joker:

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 12:08 PM
I like Smith, it seems like he gets focused in and when he does...he gets the job done. Nothing was really heard about Dayne for a while but that he was signing with the eagles and what not. Then Smith was ready to talk to him and locked him down.

Hopefully this it the same thing. Smith was busy w/ Dayne and other players. Now he's focusing on Leach and I'll bet we he gets this thing done.

aj.
03-19-2007, 12:08 PM
The only possible way would be to get a supplemental pick (there is no RFA comp). I doubt if Leach's contributions would register in the top secret supplemental pick process. We'd be lucky to get a 7th.

GP
03-19-2007, 12:18 PM
Good teams seem to have good TEs and good FBs.

It's two areas that I feel are the most important, they each help to keep defenses "more honest" than if you just have a RB/WR threat.

Owen Daniels, prior to injury, had been making a statement on the field with TD catches and his ability to stretch the field.

Vonta has been a bright spot, as well, because he's CONSISTENT. When he catches the ball, he isn't fumbling it as much as Cook had been. He moved the chains at critical times in some games. He opened holes and pancaked guys IIRC.

The biggest bone-head move this team could make would be to let Vonta Leach go at this point. I didn't think we'd be able to get a FB as good as Moran Norris when we let Moran go...but dadgummit I think we might have landed a better FB in Vonta.

Keeping Vonta is pretty high priority, IMO. Of course, he could get offered a better deal than we can match...but I hope this FO does indeed try and match pound-for-pound what he'd get elsewhere. The poison pill clauses need to be outlawed, and that might enter into play (though I hope it doesn't).

Rick Smith: Re-Sign That Fullback!

amazingandre
03-19-2007, 06:17 PM
leach has signed the offer sheet that the giants made and the texans have now seven days to agree.....via total access nfl network....come on smith do it!!!!!!

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 06:18 PM
leach has signed the offer sheet that the giants made and the texans have now seven days to agree.....via total access nfl network....come on smith do it!!!!!!

Come on SMIIIITTTTHHH!!!!

ArlingtonTexan
03-19-2007, 06:19 PM
leach has signed the offer sheet that the giants made and the texans have now seven days to agree.....via total access nfl network....come on smith do it!!!!!!


4 years 8 million 1.6 in guarantees according to Adam Schefter on NFLN

aj.
03-19-2007, 06:19 PM
4 years, 8 million with 1.5 guaranteed.

I think the Texans will not hesitate to match if there's no funny stuff in the deal. Basically it's just a guarantee of 750k more than what they offered (and the additional three years and 6.5 which they can defer most of until the final two years) ....

Ok, now I'll believe the report since it was on the NFL's own Network (I saw it too).

amazingandre
03-19-2007, 06:20 PM
yup we need to resign him bad!!!!!!!!i liked him so much.....look at the running game and how muc it improved when he stepped in

281
03-19-2007, 06:21 PM
4 years, 8 million with 1.5 guaranteed.

I think the Texans will not hesitate to match if there's no funny stuff in the deal.

I'll believe the report now that it was on NFL Network (I saw it too).

*crosses fingers*

TheRealJoker
03-19-2007, 06:28 PM
With Leach we may be able to be a top 10 running team...without him :(

Lets not think about life without Leach...get that man his bread!!!

edo783
03-19-2007, 06:33 PM
IIRC, all we have do is match and other teams can't jump in or up the bid they made....is that correct?

dirty steve
03-19-2007, 06:36 PM
IIRC, all we have do is match and other teams can't jump in or up the bid they made....is that correct?

i think so--leach will be playing for no team other than the Texans or NYG this year. let's hope Rick Smith gets this thing done.

Dunta_23
03-19-2007, 06:37 PM
That seams like reasonable money for a guy that helped out the running game a lot...I think Cook makes about 2.5/yr...but I also think that Leach is a better blocker

dirty steve
03-19-2007, 06:39 PM
That seams like reasonable money for a guy that helped out the running game a lot...I think Cook makes about 2.5/yr...but I also think that Leach is a better blocker

i think Cook's contract was 4yr./4 mil IIRC. seems he would be easily expendable.

nunusguy
03-19-2007, 06:43 PM
VL has got a big downside. He's only 'bout 25 and the Texans lately seem
to be after the 30 something crowd when it comes to their backs.

aj.
03-19-2007, 07:02 PM
i think Cook's contract was 4yr./4 mil IIRC. seems he would be easily expendable.

5 yrs 5 mil including a 1.2 s/b.

He'd be about a million in dead money if cut.

kiwitexansfan
03-19-2007, 07:07 PM
I think this is a no brainer.

We have to match the offer, it isn't a bank breaker and he is guy that made a big difference by doing the little things that go un-appreciated and those guys are important to keep around.

TexansLucky13
03-19-2007, 07:11 PM
He'd be about a million in dead money if cut.

That's chump change compared to the dead money we have hanging around right now.

I want Leach back. Smith better match the offer, we can afford to have him. Even more so, we can't afford NOT to have him. We must get him!

aj.
03-19-2007, 07:17 PM
He's probably worth a match, but not much more. A year ago at this time 99.9% of the people on this board would have said Vonta who? He's a prime example of how bad the talent was on this team. We get one guy who shows some ability and toughness and we're all foaming over ourselves.

Grid
03-19-2007, 07:24 PM
He's probably worth a match, but not much more. A year ago at this time 99.9% of the people on this board would have said Vonta who? He's a prime example of how bad the talent was on this team. We get one guy who shows some ability and toughness and we're all foaming over ourselves.

eh.. While I agree with you to a certain extent.. I dont think it has to be viewed so negatively hehe.

We are hungry for talent, and Vonta showed it. We want to KEEP our talent cause we have been lacking it for so long.... so when we see a player that shows talent, we get in a feeding frenzy over them.

Basicly.. I think Vonta showed real talent.. I dont think he just looked better by comparison :D

Wolf
03-19-2007, 07:27 PM
He's probably worth a match, but not much more. A year ago at this time 99.9% of the people on this board would have said Vonta who? He's a prime example of how bad the talent was on this team. We get one guy who shows some ability and toughness and we're all foaming over ourselves.

that is true AJ

old football fan
03-19-2007, 07:30 PM
If we can't get Leach, do you think the Texans would try putting Dayne in the FB spot He runs hard, catches the ball well, but I don't know about his blocking ability. Your thoughts??

Ibar_Harry
03-19-2007, 07:32 PM
Aren't the Texans interested in the FB from GB. Perhapes this is a way to keep him away. I notice that individual hasn't been here so far. May be that's who NY really wants.

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 07:33 PM
Aren't the Texans interested in the FB from GB. Perhapes this is a way to keep him away. I notice that individual hasn't been here so far. May be that's who NY really want.

lol, i'd expect a FB from GB or Denver...

TexansLucky13
03-19-2007, 07:33 PM
He's probably worth a match, but not much more. A year ago at this time 99.9% of the people on this board would have said Vonta who? He's a prime example of how bad the talent was on this team. We get one guy who shows some ability and toughness and we're all foaming over ourselves.

I disagree. If anything, I think it would be a huge mistake to let him go. Just because the talent level on this team was low compared to some Super Bowl caliber team, it doesn't mean the most of us can't see a good player when we land one.

Also, make sure you doubt check which team he was inked by. The Giants are not bottom feeders. They saw in him what I saw. The same thing that most of us saw.

I want him here.

Carr Bombed
03-19-2007, 07:37 PM
Vonta does have talent, our running game took of when he was inserted in. Plus for a big guy he had pretty good hands.

Also its not just fans looking at a guy and foaming at the mouth, for me it also means no Jameel Cook. That alone makes Leach worth resigning.......we drop a FB that dropped the ball and cost us multiple games for a upgrade who was better in every aspect.

TexasJedi
03-19-2007, 07:38 PM
lol, i'd expect a FB from GB or Denver...
Well, quick someone remind them that Vonta used to play for Green Bay.

aj.
03-19-2007, 07:39 PM
I disagree. .

You disagree with what?:

a) He's probably worth a match, but not much more. [if true, how much more, Casserly?]

b) A year ago at this time 99.9% of the people on this board would have said Vonta who? [if true, congrats with being in the 0.1%

or

c) He's a prime example of how bad the talent was on this team. [can't be true based on what 'you and most others' saw (and obviously what I saw since I made the statement)]

Clash_Fan3605
03-19-2007, 07:39 PM
Vonta Leach=young Lorenzo Neal?? :yahoo:

Wolf
03-19-2007, 07:40 PM
You disagree with what?:

a) He's probably worth a match, but not much more. [if true, how much more?]

b) A year ago at this time 99.9% of the people on this board would have said Vonta who? [if true, congrats with being in the 0.1%

or

c) He's a prime example of how bad the talent was on this team. [can't be true based on what 'you and most others' saw (and obviously what I saw since I made the statement)]

true kinda like another Rb, I am not totally impressed with on the team,but he played well and was the best thing since DD(or DW) that we have seen

Ibar_Harry
03-19-2007, 07:41 PM
Vonta Leach=young Lorenzo Neal?? :yahoo:


Ah, YES, another Fresno State Graduate......

Wolf
03-19-2007, 07:42 PM
Vonta Leach=young Lorenzo Neal?? :yahoo:

I could wish ....heck while I wish I could dream give me a non-injured Alonzo Highsmith :D
:drool:

TexansLucky13
03-19-2007, 07:46 PM
You disagree with what?:

a) He's probably worth a match, but not much more. [if true, how much more, Casserly?]

b) A year ago at this time 99.9% of the people on this board would have said Vonta who? [if true, congrats with being in the 0.1%

or

c) He's a prime example of how bad the talent was on this team. [can't be true based on what 'you and most others' saw (and obviously what I saw since I made the statement)]

I believe that the answer is A, Regis.

Jeez, you came at me full force. You having a bad day or is it something personal against me?

Runner
03-19-2007, 07:50 PM
A lot of people get pretty excited about every signing of another team's borderline players. The Texans may as well reward their own and keep them when they can.

Continuity must count for something if they aren't replacing a player for better talent. I'd rather keep Leach than shuffle for the sake of shuffling.

aj.
03-19-2007, 07:55 PM
Vonta Leach=young Lorenzo Neal?? :yahoo:

Speaking of Lo Neal .... last year (as a proven Pro Bowler and what ... a 12 year vet or more ? ...) he signed a three-year extension worth $5.1 million, making him the highest-paid fullback in the NFL. The Giants offer sheet to Leach is worth more than that.


Jeez, you came at me full force.

lol ... hardly.

I was asking you a question (that you half answered). How much more?

David's Busted Carr
03-19-2007, 07:57 PM
Funny. This was a guy that was waived by GB and the Saints before we claimed him off waivers. Now he's a "must keep" or our offseason is in shambles according to some of you! :)

Anyway, if we want to keep him here is what we have to match:

Giants signed FB Vonta Leach to a four-year, $8 million offer sheet.

The deal includes $1.6 million in guaranteed money, NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports. Houston has seven days to match the proposal.

Doesn't sound too ridiculous if he's a good fit for our team...

281
03-19-2007, 08:03 PM
Speaking of Lo Neal .... last year (as a proven Pro Bowler and what ... a 12 year vet or more ? ...) he signed a three-year extension worth $5.1 million, making him the highest-paid fullback in the NFL.

ovie mughelli?..

aj.
03-19-2007, 08:05 PM
ovie mughelli?..

* I should have said before this season. Good catch. [edit: well I did say last year]

Mughelli's deal is the highest as of two weeks ago. I'm pretty sure Leach's would be near the top for fullbacks - but I confess that I don't make it a habit to track fullback's contracts. Mughelli got a 5 mill s/b included in his 18 million over 6 years.

281
03-19-2007, 08:09 PM
* before this season. Good catch.

thanks... speaking of catch, i just noticed your avatar for the first time. ouch. :heh:

Specnatz
03-19-2007, 08:14 PM
Some people want to critize about some of the signing based on age or so it seems. If the player is better than what we have on the roster why not and get an experienced player.

Leach maybe younger than Cook but he is far better than that hack. So far Rick Smith has shown that he is methodical about the players he signs and goes after. Adding depth and quality guys in the locker room and on the field.

valleytexfan
03-19-2007, 08:16 PM
I think this is a no brainer.

We have to match the offer, it isn't a bank breaker and he is guy that made a big difference by doing the little things that go un-appreciated and those guys are important to keep around.

TOTALLY with you there, kiwi. Good Post:yahoo:

aj.
03-19-2007, 08:19 PM
I can't wait for the day that re-signing a fullback isn't a big deal.

Tulip
03-19-2007, 08:28 PM
I'm glad Sherman/Smith brought Leach in, but it wouldn't have been necessary if they hadn't chucked Moran Norris for Jameel Cook. This young, shiny new front office has made its share of questionable decisions over the last year.

I hope we can keep Leach. He was a vast improvement over Dropsy McFumbles.

TexansLucky13
03-19-2007, 08:38 PM
I can't wait for the day that re-signing a fullback isn't a big deal.

I love the Texans, and any signing is a big enough deal for me to discuss on a message board. I want the team to succeed.

Are we not allowed to have a pleasant discussion about things?

aj.
03-19-2007, 08:46 PM
Are we not allowed to have a pleasant discussion about things?

Of course we are, but you still didn't say how much you were willing to pay the guy, he said pleasantly.

Texian
03-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Sounds matchable as long as there is no poison pill attached ...like it all becomes GTD if he plays 6 games a year in Texas.

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 10:04 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2805169

Sorry if this was already posted but it says....

Giants gave him an offer sheet for 4 years, $8million with $1.6million guaranteed.

we then have 7 days to match that offer.

So that's $2mill per year....1.6 mill salary and 400k bonus??? (roughly)

that's a lot cheaper than the falcons are giving their FB ..lol

Spike
03-19-2007, 10:13 PM
So...what do we do? Leach stepped in and did great last year, but is he worth $2M/ year? How much money do we have left to work with?

TheCD
03-19-2007, 10:17 PM
The irony of this is that:

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"For only $450,000 more in 2007 salary, the Texans could have tendered Leach at a level that would have given them a second-round pick as compensation."

So we either definitely want him back, or don't think he's that valuable.

TexasJedi
03-19-2007, 10:27 PM
The latest straight from Rick's mouth, via John "Videodome" McClain:


"I received a call from the Giants indicating that they'd signed Vonta to the offer sheet," general manager Rick Smith said Monday night. "I haven't seen it, but when I get to the office tomorrow, we'll look it over and decide what we're going to do."

It was Smith who signed Leach off the street last season. The Texans were looking for a powerful lead blocker to bolster the running game. Leach became that and more.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4644714.html

keyfro
03-19-2007, 10:33 PM
to me he's worth it because his contributions to the running game far surpased what cook was able to do...now is a FB worth 2 mil a year...maybe maybe not...but i think when you have an offense that is based off running the ball more you should be willing to pay the run blockers a little more than a team that usually passes

Rex King
03-19-2007, 10:37 PM
The irony of this is that:

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"For only $450,000 more in 2007 salary, the Texans could have tendered Leach at a level that would have given them a second-round pick as compensation."

So we either definitely want him back, or don't think he's that valuable.

Or they just underestimated the amount of interest in a guy claimed off waivers in midseason. Curious, though. My understanding was that because he was undrafted, the Texans would get no draft pick compensation.

Edit: Ah, it was because he was given a minimum offer. Curious, but in a different way.

Dunta_23
03-19-2007, 10:41 PM
Or they just underestimated the amount of interest in a guy claimed off waivers in midseason. Curious, though. My understanding was that because he was undrafted, the Texans would get no draft pick compensation.

You are kind of right....at the level they tendered him at now...they receive no compensation, but as the other poster said, at the next level up they would have gotten a 2nd rounder had he gotten signed

12Gage
03-19-2007, 10:44 PM
Or they just underestimated the amount of interest in a guy claimed off waivers in midseason. Curious, though. My understanding was that because he was undrafted, the Texans would get no draft pick compensation.

Edit: Ah, it was because he was given a minimum offer. Curious, but in a different way.
no it just depends on the amount tendered

edit: nvm u got it

Rex King
03-19-2007, 10:45 PM
Thanks for the clarification, I just got my head round that now. Dim:lightbulb:

SamuraiSword
03-19-2007, 10:54 PM
come on Rick Smith Get-R-Done!!!!!

Arky
03-20-2007, 01:16 AM
Whelp, I have to give some kudos to the NY Giants personnel dept for spotting Leach. You'd think a street free agent might slip under the radar. Somebody over there was watching!

Leach is, according to Kubiak, a different type of football player... Clark Kent in practice, Superman during the game. I've known some football players like this before - teammates can be shocked sometimes at how well they play during the game....

....This young, shiny new front office has made its share of questionable decisions over the last year.....


Ya, there have been a few. Moulds comes to mind. You gotta think it is very difficult to bat 1.000 as a GM and/or Coach combo.... Things are going to happen - one just hopes they get more right than wrong...

Grid
03-20-2007, 01:49 AM
Also gotta keep in mind that a good GM/Coach will get better as they go along and become more comfortable with the team and its needs.

Keep in mind its only been one season.

Let's try this again
03-20-2007, 01:50 AM
The irony of this is that:

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"For only $450,000 more in 2007 salary, the Texans could have tendered Leach at a level that would have given them a second-round pick as compensation."

So we either definitely want him back, or don't think he's that valuable.

Yea but if that would've been the case then the Giants probably would live with out him knowing that a 2nd rdr would be at stake.

Nothing to be too upset about

nunusguy
03-20-2007, 08:17 AM
Quibbling over 450 K for a productive player & fan favorite, even though his position may be the offenses equivalent of the safety positions on defense
in terms of relative importance, is an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" if I ever heard one in the area of cap management.

GP
03-20-2007, 08:35 AM
Quibbling over 450 K for a productive player & fan favorite, even though his position may be the offenses equivalent of the safety positions on defense
in terms of relative importance, is an example of "penny wise and pound foolish" if I ever heard one in the area of cap management.

Exactly.

Leach wasn't offered the big $ from NY for nothing. He's worth it.

This is the one signing that I have been nervous over (the most).

As GM, he struck gold on Leach...there's no telling if you can reproduce that result if you let Leach go. We saw how much Cook (as our FB) cost us in terms of potentially being the game-losing play vs. Giants.

Then Leach comes in, and that stuff was stopped in its tracks.

Lock him up for four years and never worry about the FB position unless he gets injured. Lock...it...up.

real
03-20-2007, 08:41 AM
Hmmmm....This is interesting...kinda....

I don't think he'll be back though...

I doubt the Texans match the offer...

MightyTExan
03-20-2007, 08:41 AM
I think Reese's Titan blood is flowing and is trying to screw us as he has been taught to do by Bud all those years..............................

Stampede
03-20-2007, 08:46 AM
I think Reese's Titan blood is flowing and is trying to screw us as he has been taught to do by Bud all those years..............................


Nope, this is all Mario's fault. He shoulda never done that ballin stuff on the Giants field last year. :stirpot:

keyfro
03-20-2007, 08:50 AM
enough with the ballin junk...the only reason they're going after leach is because they saw the samething we all did...a guy who could block extremely well and who also surprised some people with his ability to catch a few passes

HOU-TEX
03-20-2007, 09:08 AM
Hmmmm....This is interesting...kinda....

I don't think he'll be back though...

I doubt the Texans match the offer...

Agreed. I'd like to see him back, but if Smith and Co. do not think he's worth the amount of money offered...eh let him go. If he were a Means, Alstott or Strong then by george throw some money at him. IMO, if a FB doesn't have that kind of talent then he's just another FB. I won't cry in my pie either way.:)

GP
03-20-2007, 09:09 AM
I give it a 50% chance that we match it.

We have, IMO, a new GM and HC who are rescuing this team from the clutches of mis-spending. I can see us making the decision of "That's too much to spend on the FB position...we'll just go out and find another guy."

There's a strong sense around here, by Kubiak and Smith, that they are supremely confident in their ability to unearth hidden gems. And that sort of mentality lends itself to letting players go when they eat up too much salary...especially when the team is in such dire need of help at virtually every position imagineable.

Therefore, I will not be surprised if we do not match the offer. I'd rather keep one foot on ground (in reality) than both feet in the air (in high expectation).

I say we lock him up for the four years and then never have to worry about it unless he gets injured.

We cut a lot of dead weight recently, guys who were injured or just past their usefulness, so maybe we did it in anticipation of needing to spend a little on Leach.

humbleone
03-20-2007, 09:16 AM
"Feed the Lions and starve the turkeys"...Leach proved he is a "Lion"...Hey Smith, we have our FB...pay him...he's earned it.

texans83
03-20-2007, 09:20 AM
I put my faith in Smith and Kubes. They found this guy off the street and if they dont think he is worth that much money then fine let him go and wish him luck but I think they know they can findsome one else for less money and I put my trust in them to do just that. I dont think they will spen that much money in him IMO

Lucky
03-20-2007, 09:22 AM
I think Reese's Titan blood is flowing and is trying to screw us as he has been taught to do by Bud all those years..............................
The Giant's GM is Jerry Reese, who has been with NY since '94.

http://www.wkrn.com/files/images/ap/sports/2007/01/giants_gm_football.jpg

Floyd Reese resigned in January as the Titans' GM after 21 seasons in the organization, 13 as GM.

http://tnvalley.redcross.org/FReese.jpg

Vinny
03-20-2007, 09:26 AM
I haven't read the thread but this year has a good crop of fullbacks in the draft and we don't have to spend a first day pick to get a one. I'm hoping we don't match. Good luck to Leach.

real
03-20-2007, 09:29 AM
I haven't read the thread but this year has a good crop of fullbacks in the draft and we don't have to spend a first day pick to get a one. I'm hoping we don't match. Good luck to Leach.

I hope we don't match, or draft one.

I'd rather pick up two or three undrafted free agents and let them battle it out...

MightyTExan
03-20-2007, 09:32 AM
The Giant's GM is Jerry Reese, who has been with NY since '94.

http://www.wkrn.com/files/images/ap/sports/2007/01/giants_gm_football.jpg

Floyd Reese resigned in January as the Titans' GM after 21 seasons in the organization, 13 as GM.

http://tnvalley.redcross.org/FReese.jpg

My bad, I thought he went to the Giants..........................

Vinny
03-20-2007, 09:40 AM
I hope we don't match, or draft one.

I'd rather pick up two or three undrafted free agents and let them battle it out...donno, this is a wco with heavy fullback involvement. The 5th and 6th rounds should get you a top caliber fullback....we need one if we are going to run this offense. If you just want the crappy offense you saw in years past we should trot out fodder like you want. I'd look for us to take a FB as early as round 4. For instance, I love the kid from Tennessee....he can do it all and would upgrade Leach imo.

Blake
03-20-2007, 09:54 AM
donno, this is a wco with heavy fullback involvement. The 5th and 6th rounds should get you a top caliber fullback....we need one if we are going to run this offense. If you just want the crappy offense you saw in years past we should trot out fodder like you want. I'd look for us to take a FB as early as round 4. For instance, I love the kid from Tennessee....he can do it all and would upgrade Leach imo.

Im still a little bitter about not taking Lawrence Vickers [FB Colorado] last year. I hear he is going to be the starter this year. I didnt know we were in the FB market, but I guess without Vonta, we are.

real
03-20-2007, 09:57 AM
donno, this is a wco with heavy fullback involvement. The 5th and 6th rounds should get you a top caliber fullback....we need one if we are going to run this offense. If you just want the crappy offense you saw in years past we should trot out fodder like you want. I'd look for us to take a FB as early as round 4. For instance, I love the kid from Tennessee....he can do it all and would upgrade Leach imo.

Cory Anderson....the kid from Tennessee

Sounds like your opinion of Leach is lower than some on this board...

I saw a couple good things out of Vonta, but IMO, he isn't really worth the money...

I agree that we need a good fullback with this offense, but I just don't think that there are going to be a lot of teams drafting them...I could be wrong...

Another FB that'd be good in our system is Deion Anderson from Conneticut.

HuttoKarl
03-20-2007, 09:59 AM
I imagine Smith could find a guy willing to smash fools for league minimum rather than paying 2 mill a year.

real
03-20-2007, 10:01 AM
I imagine Smith could find a guy willing to smash fools for league minimum rather than paying 2 mill a year.

It's more to it than "smashing fools" in our offense...

He needs to be able to catch and run a little...

Exithios
03-20-2007, 10:05 AM
It's more to it than "smashing fools" in our offense...

He needs to be able to catch and run a little...

And not to mention, he needs to be able to read defenses and catch the blitz. The fullback can very well be the last stop before the QB is sacked.

GP
03-20-2007, 10:05 AM
Also heard that the guy from Rutgers might be beefing up to transition into an NFL FB. He's got great hands, great feet, and made some clutch plays in some big games.

He'll probably be gone by 2nd or 3rd, though.

When we see what we paid dead weight, over the past four years, then I don't understand why we can't pay a guy like Leach who actually contributes in an effective manner. Just seems to be "the right thing to do" when we paid guys like Todd Wade and Gary Walker so much money.

Oh well, I guess it's gonna go down like it's gonna go down eh?

real
03-20-2007, 10:07 AM
Also heard that the guy from Rutgers might be beefing up to transition into an NFL FB. He's got great hands, great feet, and made some clutch plays in some big games.


Are you talkinga bout Brian Leonard ?

He started as a running back but moved to fullback to make room for Ray Rice...

He is losing weight because he wants NFL people to think of him as a running back...

Exithios
03-20-2007, 10:08 AM
Also heard that the guy from Rutgers might be beefing up to transition into an NFL FB. He's got great hands, great feet, and made some clutch plays in some big games.

He'll probably be gone by 2nd or 3rd, though.

When we see what we paid dead weight, over the past four years, then I don't understand why we can't pay a guy like Leach who actually contributes in an effective manner. Just seems to be "the right thing to do" when we paid guys like Todd Wade and Gary Walker so much money.

Oh well, I guess it's gonna go down like it's gonna go down eh?

My understanding, Brian Leonard was doing just the opposite. He was dropping weight to show the NFL he could be a Tailback. He would have been smart to build on his success at the fullback position IMO, he was a very successful fullback and a mediocre to below average tailback at best.

texans83
03-20-2007, 10:22 AM
My understanding, Brian Leonard was doing just the opposite. He was dropping weight to show the NFL he could be a Tailback. He would have been smart to build on his success at the fullback position IMO, he was a very successful fullback and a mediocre to below average tailback at best.

this is also what I heard. I think if we do draft someone then it should be in the 5 or later. I agree that I think we can pick up someone that can fill in in the later rounds.

Andrew6
03-20-2007, 10:26 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/03/20/leach.giants.ap/index.html

I don't see the Texans going out of there way to acquire him. At 7 million dollars I don't the Texans picking up too many players. If this has alreaady been posted, sorry. I saw it on SI and wasn't sure if anyone caught it or not.

El Tejano
03-20-2007, 10:28 AM
Before anyone starts chunking rocks at their computer, please understand that I am thinking of options too.

Has anyone thought of signing William Henderson to like a 1 year deal. I know we don't want GB rejects but that dude can play and he has played for Sherman before.

Specnatz
03-20-2007, 10:33 AM
I noticed a few people upset about the money offered Leach when you say another 450K would have kept the Giants from offering because of a second round pick, but Leach was an unkonwn commodity before last season so the offer was a legit one in order to have the right of first refusal. I am sure most on this board would not of thought a contract that size would have been offered. Also, the Texans are in cap hell until all this dead money is off the books.

I want him back because he is a proven commodity and drafting any player 4 thru the 7 rounds is hit and mis. Why not draft a guy in the 6th as a back-up and if you find out he can do the job then cut Leach and save the money on the remainder of Leaches contract.

real
03-20-2007, 10:35 AM
I can just imagine Giant fans with a WTF look on their faces....

dtran04
03-20-2007, 10:58 AM
I hope we don't match, or draft one.

I'd rather pick up two or three undrafted free agents and let them battle it out...

Battle from UH would be decent.

UHHEAVEN
03-20-2007, 11:27 AM
NO, I have seen Battle in many of UH games and compared to Leach, using the word "decent" is very decent of you!!! There is no comparassion.:zzz:

Lucky
03-20-2007, 11:34 AM
Giants gave him an offer sheet for 4 years, $8million with $1.6million guaranteed.

The 5th and 6th rounds should get you a top caliber fullback...

I don't see why the Texans couldn't match the offer sheet, and trade Leach to the Giants for a 2nd day pick. I still think they screwed up not giving Leach the 2nd round tender. Not that any team would give up a 2nd round pick for Leach, but they could have gotten a sign & trade deal for a 2nd day pick that would have resulted in less dead money. Still, the Texans could get something out of this.

TheCD
03-20-2007, 11:35 AM
I noticed a few people upset about the money offered Leach when you say another 450K would have kept the Giants from offering because of a second round pick, but Leach was an unkonwn commodity before last season so the offer was a legit one in order to have the right of first refusal.

My point wasn't that it would have kept us from losing him, but that at least we would get something as compensation. As of now, we won't get anything if we lose him.

aj.
03-20-2007, 11:59 AM
The irony of this is that:

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

"For only $450,000 more in 2007 salary, the Texans could have tendered Leach at a level that would have given them a second-round pick as compensation."

So we either definitely want him back, or don't think he's that valuable.

If they definitely wanted him back ,they would have probably tendered him at the next level. No other team would give up a 2nd round draft pick for Leach so that would have effectively taken him off the market.

It's possible that the Texans gambled and lost on this deal, thinking that no one was going to offer him more than the 850k that the Texans did.

Or it's quite possible that the Texans valued Leach as a 850k per year player and aren't interested in paying him 2 million per year.

Or it's possible that the Texans were fishing (to see what the market was) -thinking that they might be able to sneak him through the process and hang on to him - while holding some bait in reserve just in case they had to come up with more $$$ to eventually lock him up. That's a stretch.

After thinking about it a bit, I have a feeling the Texans won't match. If they do, they will be admitting that they underestimated his value and screwed up the tender, OR they were trying to lowball him.

TexansSeminole
03-20-2007, 02:02 PM
It's worth $8 million for 4 years. It includes $1.6 mil in guarantees. I didnt see any posts about this so i'll put the site up here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2805169

We have seven days to match it.

Looks like Leach turned some heads with his performance at the end of the year last year.

hollywood_texan
03-20-2007, 02:07 PM
I don't understand why people are getting so worked up over this.

The Texans took a chance on the minimum, and maybe that is what they think the guy is worth! Only one team has shown great interest, so maybe it's the Giants that are overpaying in relation to value. If he is such a commodity, where are the other teams?

We traded for Moulds this time last year, and I said the Texans overpaid because they could have gotten him after he cleared waivers. Now, he is no longer on the squad. The Texans overpaid there.

Leach was drafted then cut by the Packers after two years and we picked him up later.

The Texans have zero little invested into this deal except for what they paid him.

Like I said, maybe the Giants are reaching on this one. Due to increases in the cap, there are guys that are getting pay raises that probably shouldn't. Keep that in mind with regards to Leach.

TEXANS84
03-20-2007, 02:17 PM
I don't understand why people are getting so worked up over this.


Probably because our rushing game was non-existant with Cook starting at FB.

Example:

Moran Norris is now considered a top 5 fullback after leading the way for Domanick, and now taking Frank Gore (49ers) to the pro-bowl and a career year.

ROCKY
03-20-2007, 02:20 PM
I think everyone is crapping on the FO just for crap's sake. Vonta was pulled into the Texans squad OFF THE STREETS. Just finding him tells you alot about Rick Smith (along w/several other "off the street guys" who had an impact). They did'nt drop the extra cash for the second rounder deal because who would have thought Vonta would be so good?

After all he was just a crappy player picked up by a crappy gm for a crappy team (yes, that's sarcasm, aimed at all the REALLY negative people on the board)

PS. that being said....match the deal Rick.

real
03-20-2007, 02:22 PM
I think everyone is crapping on the FO just for crap's sake. Vonta was pulled into the Texans squad OFF THE STREETS. Just finding him tells you alot about Rick Smith (along w/several other "off the street guys" who had an impact). They did'nt drop the extra cash for the second rounder deal because who would have thought Vonta would be so good?

After all he was just a crappy player picked up by a crappy gm for a crappy team (yes, that's sarcasm, aimed at all the REALLY negative people on the board)

PS. that being said....match the deal Rick.

Vonta Leach was a GB guy...

Rick smith didn't do a bad job, but it's not like he was just doing some hell-uv-a scouting either....

hollywood_texan
03-20-2007, 02:46 PM
Probably because our rushing game was non-existant with Cook starting at FB.

Example:

Moran Norris is now considered a top 5 fullback after leading the way for Domanick, and now taking Frank Gore (49ers) to the pro-bowl and a career year.

That doesn't mean the only solution is Leach by matching the Giants offer.

gtexan02
03-20-2007, 02:50 PM
That doesn't mean the only solution is Leach by matching the Giants offer.

we know leach works. everyone else is a gamble.

keyfro
03-20-2007, 03:00 PM
isn't the deal going to be backloaded anyways...there is rarely a deal that is done 4yrs 8 mill that is worked at 2 mil/per year...it's usually something in the 450,000 range that ends up at 3.5 mil the last year...i haven't read anywhere that if we match the deal that we have to garentee the whole deal either...just that 1.6 mil of it is garenteed...am i correct in that?

i don't see a reason not to match the offer

humbleone
03-20-2007, 03:01 PM
we know leach works. everyone else is a gamble.

Exactly...we have too many questions already...let's lock up Leach as the answer to the FB position for the next 4 yrs. Get'er done Smith!

threetoedpete
03-20-2007, 03:05 PM
I don't understand why people are getting so worked up over this.

The Texans took a chance on the minimum, and maybe that is what they think the guy is worth! Only one team has shown great interest, so maybe it's the Giants that are overpaying in relation to value. If he is such a commodity, where are the other teams?

We traded for Moulds this time last year, and I said the Texans overpaid because they could have gotten him after he cleared waivers. Now, he is no longer on the squad. The Texans overpaid there.

Leach was drafted then cut by the Packers after two years and we picked him up later.

The Texans have zero little invested into this deal except for what they paid him.

Like I said, maybe the Giants are reaching on this one. Due to increases in the cap, there are guys that are getting pay raises that probably shouldn't. Keep that in mind with regards to Leach.

Nice post A.J.

Well the reason I'm getting worked up over this, the emergence of Leach last year just happened to coincide with the return of the running game after Spencer went down. With Leach you had a lock for a decent rushing attack even with the grey beards at OLT, and running back. With out him, you're basically starting over. Dayne and Green have to have a sliver of day light to make it work. The iso play was just about all they had at the end of last year. Now in all probablity that's gone off to N. Y. all we're left with is the dinks and dunks passes. Yeah he didn't cost much, but it's going to be a bear to replace him. Someone that young that compitent...we're you going to get him from ?

PapaL
03-20-2007, 03:06 PM
Now that we know what the market values him at, pay the man.

GP
03-20-2007, 09:16 PM
Are you talkinga bout Brian Leonard ?

He started as a running back but moved to fullback to make room for Ray Rice...

He is losing weight because he wants NFL people to think of him as a running back...

Hmm...thought it was the other way around. I thought he was Rutgers' main back.

I think it'd be a shame for him to gear up for the draft as a tailback. The NFL FB, today, needs to be able to run in addition to block. I think he fits that description well. He looks like a certain Cowboys FB from awhile back: Good hands, good footwork, knows where to be/when to be there, etc. etc.

It'll be interesting to see him next year.

Now back to topic: Seems like the board is split on matching the NYG offer. I lean towards keeping Vonta.

Scooter
03-20-2007, 11:27 PM
point blank, vonta leach is 10 times the player norris is. i'm rarely this high on players (especially without years of proving themselves), but vonta leach, charles spencer, and demeco ryans are special. i'm big on "unseen" players though such as fullbacks, kickers, O-linemen, etc. it's highly unlikely we'll draft a player of leach's caliber, and with our system, fullback is a priority. plus, we need these draft picks to address areas we could improve upon, bringing leach back gives us more flexibility. it's not a plug & play, as obvious with cook's dramatic failure. speaking of which, i questioned it then, and get the "i told you so" now ... cook isnt what this team wants. keep me & coachdent (who has some incredible breakdowns of the position during the season, i encourage all in this debate to go back and read his posts during the season) from having a stroke ... release cook and sign leach to whatever he wants.

vonta didnt miss a pass thrown his direction (or bobble it 6 times like cook on every pass), no fumbles, and you'd be hard pressed to find him missing a blocking assignment. he lead dayne to both of their free agencies and by the reports given, showed incredible knowledge and aggression in only 4 games. he's at a prime age with a year of experience in the system and comes at a relatively low cost considering the positional importance to the offensive system. with sherman back in the fold, we're not looking for tony richardson, which leach isnt ... he's mack strong, a bull-headed lead blocker who can sneak into the flats at the goal line.

IF we dont resign leach, we need to be prepared to pay more and lose a 5th rounder to sign kyle johnson from the broncos. this wouldnt hurt my feelings in the least because kyle johnson's more polished than leach and, along with being the same age, is just as vicious as leach as a lead blocker, but for the cost we're better off sticking with leach.

TEXANRED
03-21-2007, 08:40 AM
do you guys remember rushing touchdowns in houston or are we content with...field goals...


Attempted FG's. Kris Brown is still our kicker.

Specnatz
03-21-2007, 12:37 PM
Attempted FG's. Kris Brown is still our kicker.

Post of the day.

UHHEAVEN
03-21-2007, 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans34Life
What the hell kind of upgrade is he? We are definitely grasping at straws for the RB position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Whatever trash the Broncos or GB rid themselves of, we pick it up like its going out of style

For everyone that said comments like this, start eating crow. Now that Leach has proven him self could we please give him his money and get on with a new topic. Or are we just going to continue with the same Texans' curse: Try to find a cheap way out and end up paying for it in the long run!!!

We got him cheap for one year, consider that a bargin.

Texans34Life
03-21-2007, 10:05 PM
Texans | Leach's agent expects answer by Friday
Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:43:24 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports the agent of restricted free-agent Vonta Leach (Texans) expects the Houston Texans to decide by Friday whether to match the offer Leach signed with the New York Giants.

TexanSam
03-21-2007, 10:09 PM
I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if this has been answered already, but what compensation do we get if the Texans don't match the Giants offer?

Clash_Fan3605
03-21-2007, 10:14 PM
I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if this has been answered already, but what compensation do we get if the Texans don't match the Giants offer?

We don't get any because we picked him up on waivers and he was an undrafted free agent.

keyfro
03-21-2007, 10:46 PM
the funny thing is this deal for leach is gonna get drug out all the way til friday and i have a feeling it's gonna end with us losing vonta leach...just a sneaky bad feeling about it...hope i'm wrong

UHHEAVEN
03-22-2007, 09:30 AM
With all the Hoopla over Schaub, is Leach going to be over looked? His contract grace period is almost over and we are going to lose out. I am Happy that we replaced Carr but if we don't get good people in front to block we are going to turn Schaub into another broke down CARR!!!!!!!! :Tumblewee

Carr Bombed
03-22-2007, 10:09 AM
edit

O.G.
03-22-2007, 10:10 AM
With all the Hoopla over Schaub, is Leach going to be over looked? His contract grace period is almost over and we are going to lose out. I am Happy that we replaced Carr but if we don't get good people in front to block we are going to turn Schaub into another broke down CARR!!!!!!!! :Tumblewee

I have a gut feeling that we will sign Vonta and this is the reason why I truely believe that. I don't think they are overlooking Leach at all. The Trade actually plays a major part in the Leach signing. Little did I know that with the Trade and the release of Carr, the Texans stand to save in the excess of 8 million under the cap this year. Moving back 2 spots saved the Texans 2 million, giving up the second round pick saved another 4 million and when they release Carr if they arenít able to trade him, only 2 million of his contract would count against the cap this year. Thatís the breakdown. Also, Schaubb press conference is today giving them up until tonight and tomorrow to decide. Just how I see it. :wild:

HJam72
03-22-2007, 10:12 AM
Texans | Leach's agent expects answer by Friday
Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:43:24 -0700

Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports the agent of restricted free-agent Vonta Leach (Texans) expects the Houston Texans to decide by Friday whether to match the offer Leach signed with the New York Giants.

It's real simple. JUST DO IT NOW!!! :twocents:

HuttoKarl
03-22-2007, 10:24 AM
With all the Hoopla over Schaub, is Leach going to be over looked? His contract grace period is almost over and we are going to lose out. I am Happy that we replaced Carr but if we don't get good people in front to block we are going to turn Schaub into another broke down CARR!!!!!!!! :Tumblewee

I doubt Smith will forget Leach's offer sheet sitting on his desk because we have a new QB.

TexanAddict
03-22-2007, 11:07 AM
I'm a little shocked at all the drum beating that Leach has stirred up on this board. I like Leach, but it needs to be remembered that he is a FB that was plucked off the street. I would've liked to have Leach back, but I think the contract he was offered by the Giants seems pretty high, and I wouldn't exactly say he is irreplaceable. I don't recall near this amount of uproar when Moran Norris was allowed to walk and the man was simply a battering ram as a lead blocker. Just look what he did for Gore last year in San Fran.

Specnatz
03-22-2007, 11:18 AM
I'm a little shocked at all the drum beating that Leach has stirred up on this board. I like Leach, but it needs to be remembered that he is a FB that was plucked off the street. I would've liked to have Leach back, but I think the contract he was offered by the Giants seems pretty high, and I wouldn't exactly say he is irreplaceable. I don't recall near this amount of uproar when Moran Norris was allowed to walk and the man was simply a battering ram as a lead blocker. Just look what he did for Gore last year in San Fran.

Good point but hind sight is 20/20. We all saw what not having a great FB could not do with our running game. In comes Leach and all of a sudden the running games takes off, that is why so many people are clammering for Leach to be resigned. They, like myself, do not want to try and pluck another guy off the streets. Instead, wanting to keep what worked last year versus hoping to find something that works next year. It is not very hard to figure that out.

UHHEAVEN
03-22-2007, 11:22 AM
I'm a little shocked at all the drum beating that Leach has stirred up on this board. I like Leach, but it needs to be remembered that he is a FB that was plucked off the street.


First of all he's not a dog, no one "plucked him off the streets". If that was the case then I'm waiting to get "plucked off the street" and get offerd a contract. And QB is not the only position on the field. All the positions matter, if they didn't it wouldn't be one.

Yes, he was cut but he was givin another chance by the Texans and proved himself. He deserves him money (even if it is from the Gaints). What does the Texans want from him, to lay down and all but die for the team. Carr did that and you see where he ended up..............PUT BACK ON THE STREET.

TexanAddict
03-22-2007, 11:33 AM
First of all he's not a dog, no one "plucked him off the streets". If that was the case then I'm waiting to get "plucked off the street" and get offerd a contract. And QB is not the only position on the field. All the positions matter, if they didn't it wouldn't be one.

Yes, he was cut but he was givin another chance by the Texans and proved himself. He deserves him money (even if it is from the Gaints). What does the Texans want from him, to lay down and all but die for the team. Carr did that and you see where he ended up..............PUT BACK ON THE STREET.

Amazing that QB was never mentioned in my post or even any post I have made lately. And yes, he was "plucked off the street". He was cut by the Saints and picked up mid-season as a street FA by the Texans. FB is a position that matters, but is hardly one of the most important positions on the field. Even good college FBs are typically not selected in the draft until the second day and many go undrafted all together. What he deserves is fair market value for his position and what the Giants are offering is far above this. If we match the Giants offer I will be OK with that, as I was happy with what he was able to provide last season. However, I think they may be able to find similar production elsewhere for a much lower price.

UHHEAVEN
03-22-2007, 01:24 PM
If we match the Giants offer I will be OK with that, as I was happy with what he was able to provide last season. However, I think they may be able to find similar production elsewhere for a much lower price.

Very seldomly do you find a bargian, which we found one last year. But remember in most instances, you get what you pay for!!!!!!!!

O.G.
03-22-2007, 01:28 PM
Very seldomly do you find a bargian, which we found one last year. But remember in most instances, you get what you pay for!!!!!!!!

Yep, just ask San Diego about Lorenzo Neal

TexanAddict
03-22-2007, 02:19 PM
FB salaries for 2006 season (from FoxSports):

Lorenzo Neal (Chargers) - $1.8 mil
Mike Alstott (Bucs) - $1.5 mil
Tony Richardson (Vikings) - $1.3 mil
William Henderson (Packers) - $1.1 mil
Moran Norris (49ers) - $1.1 mil
Mack Strong (Seahawks) - $.77 mil
Dan Kreider (Steelers) - $.77 mil
Heath Evans (Patriots) - $.53 mil

These are some of the best FBs in the league and as such are some of the highest paid at their position. From reports the contract signed by Leach is 4 years for $7 million with escalators up to $8.5 million. That averages to $1.75-$2.1 million over the 4 years. If the contract is backloaded so that Leach would only be making around $1.0 million or so on average for the first 3 years, then I would be completely behind the Texans matching the offer since it would fall in line with the current market value for the position (still slightly high). It would also allow the contract to be lengthened and restructured before the 4th year when the heaviest part of the contract would be due. However, I have seen no reports describing the structure of the contract, so as it stands, it seems to be a high price to pay.

O.G.
03-22-2007, 04:59 PM
FB salaries for 2006 season (from FoxSports):

Lorenzo Neal (Chargers) - $1.8 mil
Mike Alstott (Bucs) - $1.5 mil
Tony Richardson (Vikings) - $1.3 mil
William Henderson (Packers) - $1.1 mil
Moran Norris (49ers) - $1.1 mil
Mack Strong (Seahawks) - $.77 mil
Dan Kreider (Steelers) - $.77 mil
Heath Evans (Patriots) - $.53 mil

These are some of the best FBs in the league and as such are some of the highest paid at their position. From reports the contract signed by Leach is 4 years for $7 million with escalators up to $8.5 million. That averages to $1.75-$2.1 million over the 4 years. If the contract is backloaded so that Leach would only be making around $1.0 million or so on average for the first 3 years, then I would be completely behind the Texans matching the offer since it would fall in line with the current market value for the position (still slightly high). It would also allow the contract to be lengthened and restructured before the 4th year when the heaviest part of the contract would be due. However, I have seen no reports describing the structure of the contract, so as it stands, it seems to be a high price to pay.


True but I was under the perception that only 1.7 was guaranteed. Either way, it is alittle high but bad teams have to pay more.

hadaad
03-22-2007, 05:13 PM
Very seldomly do you find a bargian, which we found one last year. But remember in most instances, you get what you pay for!!!!!!!!

Exactly. Just because Smith pulled a great blocking fullback in, there's no guarantee that he'll do it again.

We need to hold on to quality, not let it go and try to find more quality.

That said, the price tag IS a little high.

UHHEAVEN
03-22-2007, 08:20 PM
Either way, it is alittle high but bad teams have to pay more.


And sorry, that's us!!

keyfro
03-22-2007, 08:20 PM
FB salaries for 2006 season (from FoxSports):

Lorenzo Neal (Chargers) - $1.8 mil
Mike Alstott (Bucs) - $1.5 mil
Tony Richardson (Vikings) - $1.3 mil
William Henderson (Packers) - $1.1 mil
Moran Norris (49ers) - $1.1 mil
Mack Strong (Seahawks) - $.77 mil
Dan Kreider (Steelers) - $.77 mil
Heath Evans (Patriots) - $.53 mil

These are some of the best FBs in the league and as such are some of the highest paid at their position. From reports the contract signed by Leach is 4 years for $7 million with escalators up to $8.5 million. That averages to $1.75-$2.1 million over the 4 years. If the contract is backloaded so that Leach would only be making around $1.0 million or so on average for the first 3 years, then I would be completely behind the Texans matching the offer since it would fall in line with the current market value for the position (still slightly high). It would also allow the contract to be lengthened and restructured before the 4th year when the heaviest part of the contract would be due. However, I have seen no reports describing the structure of the contract, so as it stands, it seems to be a high price to pay.

true but vonta leach is also younger than all of those guys

Navy_Chris
03-22-2007, 08:21 PM
I don't think we have the necessary cap space to match this offer.

Le'Ron McClain (FB from Alabama) should be our 6th round pick. Excellent lead blocker in the SEC.

TeamSport
03-22-2007, 10:49 PM
As far as I'm concerned, he played better last year (in the games he played) than some of the hero's on the team. The guy is a beast. and unlike our other fullback, he can catch difficult throws and hold on to the ball. We should not let him slip away.

UHHEAVEN
03-23-2007, 08:38 AM
What's the update with resigning our fullback, Vonte Leach?

UHHEAVEN
03-23-2007, 08:38 AM
What's the update with resigning our fullback, Vonte Leach? :confused:

Sorry for the repost.

keyfro
03-23-2007, 08:44 AM
the decision is supposed to happen sometime today...probably tonight is when i'm expecting to hear smith's presser on it...should be interesting...keeping my fingers crossed that they're keeping him

CVTexan
03-23-2007, 08:46 AM
Intresting blog/article by JM in the chron this morning. He discussed him being flamed for when he was wrong but he also pointed out some of his "rights" as well. One thing he mentioned is that Smith would be/is working on Leach's contract currently. Sorry don't have the link... should be able to find it on their home page though.

whiskeyrbl
03-23-2007, 09:04 AM
If the Texans are serious about winning I don't see how they can let Leach slip away. He is definitely better than our other choice( Cook ). With Leach and Green in the backfield I think we will have a pretty good blitz pickup, not to mention the 2 coming out on routes.

misskiss81
03-23-2007, 09:27 AM
I agree. If they are serious about winning, why wouldn't they keep him.

Just counting down the time untile we know.......:whistle:

TexanAddict
03-23-2007, 09:32 AM
True but I was under the perception that only 1.7 was guaranteed. Either way, it is alittle high but bad teams have to pay more.

I just read this also. 1.7 guaranteed isn't too much, so I expect Smith will probably match the offer and I will be happy with that. Like I said, I like Leach, I just hadn't heard enough specifics regarding the contract structure to say that it would be worth it. This deal would in no way hurt our long term cap situation, so I'm all for it.

HuttoKarl
03-23-2007, 09:33 AM
I just read this also. 1.7 guaranteed isn't too much, so I expect Smith will probably match the offer and I will be happy with that. Like I said, I like Leach, I just hadn't heard enough specifics regarding the contract structure to say that it would be worth it. This deal would in no way hurt our long term cap situation, so I'm all for it.

He's probably just letting the giants hang for giggles and grins.

O.G.
03-23-2007, 09:35 AM
And sorry, that's us!!

That was the point I was making. :lightbulb:

UHHEAVEN
03-23-2007, 09:40 AM
I was agreeing. :twocents:

real
03-23-2007, 09:46 AM
Dear Mr. Smith,


Please don't match the offer



Signed,

Sanity

Errant Hothy
03-23-2007, 09:54 AM
Dear Mr. Smith,


Please don't match the offer



Signed,

Sanity

Quoted For Truth!

He's a friggin' fullback people. You know who Dallas' current FB is...Oliver Hoyt who played LB in college. My point is that the cap space is more vaulable the a FB, and that servicable FBs can be found in lots of different places. Save the money and use it in next years FA market (maybe then we won't hear so much whinning about not signing anybody).

real
03-23-2007, 10:17 AM
I was agreeing. :twocents:


UHHEAVEN,

Next time you decide to give someone negative rep for stating their opinion, try and get into the positives first so you can actually take some points away instead of just wasting cyber space.

Just a suggestion.


edit: Oh, and in case you didn't know....We can now see who leaves rep even if you don't sign your name.

Errant Hothy
03-23-2007, 10:19 AM
UHHEAVEN,

Next time you decide to give negative rep for stating my opinion, try and get into the positives first so you can actually take some points away instead of wasting cyber space.

Just a suggestion.


edit: Just in case you didn't know....We can now see who leaves rep even if you don't sign your name.

Or atleast leave your name or a comment.

South Texan
03-23-2007, 10:20 AM
Your run of the mill FB is a decent blocker. Leach appears to be a good blocker, runner, and short pass receiver. As such, the opposing defense has to account for him as a ball carrier. I think you really have to give him a hard look before you let him get away.

UHHEAVEN
03-23-2007, 11:04 AM
UHHEAVEN,

Next time you decide to give someone negative rep for stating their opinion, try and get into the positives first so you can actually take some points away instead of just wasting cyber space.

Just a suggestion.


edit: Oh, and in case you didn't know....We can now see who leaves rep even if you don't sign your name.

Wasn't trying to hide. Stick to the topic!!!

UHHEAVEN
03-23-2007, 11:05 AM
Or atleast leave your name or a comment.

Why would I leave my name? Like the other member stated you can see who gives or takes reps.

O.G.
03-23-2007, 11:06 AM
Well, wonder what the latest is as of today 11am

real
03-23-2007, 11:07 AM
Wasn't trying to hide.

:loser

misskiss81
03-23-2007, 11:10 AM
This thread is about Vonta Leach and what we think should happen, not personal wars!!!! Stick to the topic!!!

UHHEAVEN
03-23-2007, 11:12 AM
This thread is about Vonta Leach and what we think should happen, not personal wars!!!! Stick to the topic!!!

EXACTLY!!! I HOPE THE OTHERS CAN READ.

Pantherstang84
03-23-2007, 11:12 AM
This thread is about Vonta Leach and what we think should happen, not personal wars!!!! Stick to the topic!!!

I say pay the man. If you look at the deal $1.7 milliion guaranteed is 2 years at league minimum. If he gets the job done. Pay him the bonus.