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View Full Version : What kind of Cap hit would we take if we traded Babin??


thunderkyss
03-14-2007, 08:22 AM
I like the guy, I think he's a football player. but I think we could get a first day pick for him.

Maybe.

anyway, anyone know his contract situation, and what kind of hurt we'd take if we traded him??

Texan_Bill
03-14-2007, 09:30 AM
I like the guy, I think he's a football player. but I think we could get a first day pick for him.

Maybe.

anyway, anyone know his contract situation, and what kind of hurt we'd take if we traded him??

He's signed through 2009 with a cap hit close to 1.5 million for 2007 and 1.6 million for 2008.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html

feebleminded
03-14-2007, 09:34 AM
He's signed through 2009 with a cap hit close to 1.5 million for 2007 and 1.6 million for 2008.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html

2.075MM according to Keith's numbers

Edit: That is the dead money potentially against 2007's cap. The total hit is the 2.075MM less the 2007 base salary which would be avoided (735K) for a net 1.34MM hit

Texian
03-14-2007, 10:06 AM
I am convinced Weaver is not the answer at DE and is better suited at DT. Kalu is a good backup. That leaves Babin as the only answer to get pressure opposite Mario and that is not saying much. I don't understand people clamoring for Branch and Okoye when DE is the weak spot on the D line.

Right now is not a good time to think about trading Babin.

Texan_Bill
03-14-2007, 10:13 AM
I am convinced Weaver is not the answer at DE and is better suited at DT. Kalu is a good backup. That leaves Babin as the only answer to get pressure opposite Mario and that is not saying much. I don't understand people clamoring for Branch and Okoye when DE is the weak spot on the D line.

Right now is not a good time to think about trading Babin.

I think that clamoring is because on the right side, you can kinda go by commitee, but in the middle, we need help - especially after cutting Payne. Both views have merit, because the end result is we still have needs everywhere...

real
03-14-2007, 10:26 AM
I am convinced Weaver is not the answer at DE and is better suited at DT. Kalu is a good backup. That leaves Babin as the only answer to get pressure opposite Mario and that is not saying much. I don't understand people clamoring for Branch and Okoye when DE is the weak spot on the D line.

Right now is not a good time to think about trading Babin.

Weaver isn't "best suited" for DT. He's best suited for strong side DE, or maybe a DE in a 4-3.

And the reason Okoye would be good for us is because then we could afford to play Weaver at DE, because Okoye is the kind of DT that's going to put pressure on the QB from inside.

hadaad
03-14-2007, 10:39 AM
If we're going to be starting TJ (and I realize, that's a pretty big "if") I'd almost rather have a run-clogger in the middle with him. Some big piece of humanity like Fat Tony Siragusa.

mexican_texan
03-14-2007, 10:41 AM
I like the guy, I think he's a football player. but I think we could get a first day pick for him.

Maybe.

anyway, anyone know his contract situation, and what kind of hurt we'd take if we traded him??
I'll burn Reliant Stadium to ashes.

Texian
03-14-2007, 11:09 AM
Weaver isn't "best suited" for DT. He's best suited for strong side DE, or maybe a DE in a 4-3.

And the reason Okoye would be good for us is because then we could afford to play Weaver at DE, because Okoye is the kind of DT that's going to put pressure on the QB from inside.

Weaver showed last year that he cannot get any pressure on the QB as illustrated by his 1 sack total. He is more effective on the inside. Babin who played a lot less than Weaver was able to get 5 sacks.

You got Weaver, Johnson & Johnson, Maddox, Dalton, Zgonia, and Killings for DTs. You only got Williams, Kalu and Babin at DE. IF you can't see the disparity there and the lack of sacks I can't help you.

Texian
03-14-2007, 11:26 AM
The fact that they signed Zgonia today should also tell you they won't be taking a DT on day 1.

Texan_Bill
03-14-2007, 11:32 AM
The fact that they signed Zgonia today should also tell you they won't be taking a DT on day 1.

That would have been my first thought also, but then I thought.... Not necessarily... What I am seeing is the Texans doing, is stock piling something we have never had as a team... DEPTH..

mexican_texan
03-14-2007, 11:35 AM
The fact that they signed Zgonia today should also tell you they won't be taking a DT on day 1.
He's not exactly Roger Clemens at that age.

real
03-14-2007, 11:50 AM
Weaver showed last year that he cannot get any pressure on the QB as illustrated by his 1 sack total. He is more effective on the inside. Babin who played a lot less than Weaver was able to get 5 sacks.

You got Weaver, Johnson & Johnson, Maddox, Dalton, Zgonia, and Killings for DTs. You only got Williams, Kalu and Babin at DE. IF you can't see the disparity there and the lack of sacks I can't help you.


LOL @ you for thinking Weaver is better suited for DT than SDE.

real
03-14-2007, 11:56 AM
The fact that they signed Zgonia today should also tell you they won't be taking a DT on day 1.

Yeah because he's the answer.:confused:


Your logic is flawed.

hadaad
03-14-2007, 11:59 AM
I like the Zgonina signing. It's not an area of desperate need, but leadership from a solid veteran is never a bad idea. Plus, now maybe we'll get rid of Thomas Johnson.

Texian
03-14-2007, 12:09 PM
LOL @ you for thinking Weaver is better suited for DT than SDE.

Weaver played DE in Baltimore's 3 -4 which is equivilant to a DT in a 4 -3.
As a DE in a 4 -3 he is not very good at putting pressure on the QB. AS Mario can attest by all his double teams and Weaver's 1 sack. In regards to this thread about trading Babin, the Texans would do better by keeping Babin and trading Weaver.

real
03-14-2007, 12:21 PM
Weaver played DE in Baltimore's 3 -4 which is equivilant to a DT in a 4 -3.
As a DE in a 4 -3 he is not very good at putting pressure on the QB. AS Mario can attest by all his double teams and Weaver's 1 sack. In regards to this thread about trading Babin, the Texans would do better by keeping Babin and trading Weaver.

It'd be better for our team if Weaver could play DT, but he is best suited for strong side DE.

And LOL @ your lilttle equivilency explanation. That means absolutely nothing. Teams play players where they want to.

ArlingtonTexan
03-14-2007, 12:51 PM
I like the guy, I think he's a football player. but I think we could get a first day pick for him.

Maybe.

anyway, anyone know his contract situation, and what kind of hurt we'd take if we traded him??

Why would anyone give a 1st day pick for him? I think a 6th or 7th is more probable.

nunusguy
03-14-2007, 01:21 PM
Why would anyone give a 1st day pick for him? I think a 6th or 7th is more probable.
Arlington, I hate it when you tell it like it is, especially when it hurts so much.
But Babin's worth is much more likely to be a Sunday Draft pick than a Saturday Draft pick.
Right now Babin is 'bout our only annswer at weakside DE. Weaver can't give
us the kind of explosiveness, quickness we need from that spot. They've
actually released our best pure rusher, and he's got a Clevland address last time I heard.
Weaver could play strong-side end, which would mean moving Mario to the
inside. And this could happen, since after last year many are feeling that Marios natural position in the NFL is at DT.

real
03-14-2007, 01:37 PM
I'd hate to trade Babin at this point, and that really speaks poorly on our D-line.

But he's really the only threat we have in the pass rush department. If anything he'd be good depth.

My Hero
03-14-2007, 01:40 PM
I'd hate to trade Babin at this point, and that really speaks poorly on our D-line.

But he's really the only threat we have in the pass rush department. If anything he'd be good depth.



I'm going to have to agree with you on this one, as long as he doesn't fly past Vince again in OT.

trutxn
03-14-2007, 02:09 PM
I am convinced Weaver is not the answer at DE and is better suited at DT. Kalu is a good backup. That leaves Babin as the only answer to get pressure opposite Mario and that is not saying much. I don't understand people clamoring for Branch and Okoye when DE is the weak spot on the D line.

Right now is not a good time to think about trading Babin.

This is way off the subject, but Babin is not the problem, he could be an important part of the d-line rotation in blitzing situations. I'm sure there are people who will object, but oh well. I agree that we need a solid, every down DE opposite Mario, but everyone else along our d-line is in the 265lb range. That is way to light to play DT in this league, especially when we play against 320lb o-linemen. If Mario had a solid DT playing beside him it would limit the double teams and open up Mario. There are several scenarios that could occur.

1) Opponents use a 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE set. Mario would be doubled by the TE and T, Okoye or Branch would be doubled by the C and G, opening up the weak side. The FB would have to help on the week side. This would mean that 7 offensive players would be blocking 4 defensive, which would allow us cover the 3 remaining people with 7. If the FB or TE chose to run a route, watch out for Mario!

2) Opponents use a 1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR set. In this case most times one of the TEs will run a route, if not we send an LB on a blitz and still have 6 defenders to cover 3 possible receivers (including RB). If one of the TEs runs a route we wouldn't blitz the LB giving us 7 covering 4. If both TEs run routes we would still have 7 covering 5 and, watch out for Mario!

3) Opponents use a 2 RB, 2 TE, 1 WR set we'll bring a safety into the box, play cover 1 and shadow the WR with the remaining safety. This usually indicates a run and we would be able to cover slower TEs with quicker DBs.

4) Opponents use a 3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE set. We would blitz the one on one blocking scheme on the weak side forcing the RB to pick up the blitz and cover the 3 WRs with 6 defenders. If the TE runs a route we'll have 4 covered by 6 and by the way, watch out for Mario!

5) Opponents use a 4 WR, 1 RB set. We would blitz the weak side, forcing the RB to pick up blitz and cover 4 with 6. The QB would have to get rid of the ball very quickly because there would be at least three 1 on 1 battles along the line.

6) Imagine Mario and Okoye/Branch on the weak side, watch out QB!

There are a hundred different scenarios that could take place, but the simple fact is if we give Mario someone to help him on the inside to take away some of the double teams, opponents would have to game plan around our defensive line. Doing this would limit the number of WRs opponents could use in routes and would force the RB to pick up the blitzes. This alone would make our secondary better without adding anyone. Bolstering our D-line would allow us to leave an extra LB in coverage and we would not have to blitz as much to get pressure on the QB. Our secondary needs help as well, but just allowing the extra body to stay in coverage will help. Bottom line is, if you control the line of scrimmage, you usually win.

ArlingtonTexan
03-14-2007, 03:42 PM
My belief is that the Texans will use a situational and heavy rotation on the DL. While it seemed to have failed early last season, I suspect more moving Mario and Weaver around all over the DL. As i remember, the club seemed happy with the way both Anthony Maddox and Thomas Johnson played, but I being pleased with how a street FA played and thinking they are a long term answer are two different things. right now which 8 or 9 guys shake out as one the roster is unsure but here is a shot pre-draft. My guess is that there will be some version of a pass rushing DE adding to this mix and another DT is not out of the question.

DE- Weaver, Williams, Kalu, Babin
DT- Travis Johnson, Thomas Johnson, Zgnonia, Maddox

texasguy346
03-14-2007, 03:59 PM
right now which 8 or 9 guys shake out as one the roster is unsure but here is a shot pre-draft. My guess is that there will be some version of a pass rushing DE adding to this mix and another DT is not out of the question.

DE- Weaver, Williams, Kalu, Babin
DT- Travis Johnson, Thomas Johnson, Zgnonia, Maddox

That's a pretty good guess if you ask me. Perhaps they pickup another DT in day two of the draft or they might pickup a pass rush specialist to add to the mix. Trading Babin wouldn't be a good idea at this time. He fills a position of need, and it would be tough to replace him with so many other holes on the team to fill.

jerek
03-14-2007, 04:07 PM
Why would anyone give a 1st day pick for him? I think a 6th or 7th is more probable.

That sounds about right. 1st day pick? TK?

rickyb
03-14-2007, 05:06 PM
The fact that they signed Zgonia today should also tell you they won't be taking a DT on day 1.

The Zgonia signing makes sense to me. Proven veteran leadership with immense work ethic. Just the type of guy you want to have around if, say, I don't know, you hire an impressionable but uber-talented 19 year old.

I'm not saying that signing FA Zgonia means we will draft Okoye. I'm just saying, worst case? Depth.

Porky
03-15-2007, 11:09 AM
Zgonia = Payne imo.

Granted Payne was injury prone as of late, but this guy is 34. In the real world, not old at all. For a DT, quite old.

Why not just keep Payne who was a great locker room presence and leader, and has many of the same on-field qualities?

aj.
03-15-2007, 11:44 AM
Jeff Zgonina will be 37 in May.

real
03-15-2007, 11:47 AM
Why not just keep Payne who was a great locker room presence and leader, and has many of the same on-field qualities?

Seems to me that they're just slowly phasing out members of the old regime....

Greenwood is next.

kiwitexansfan
03-15-2007, 12:15 PM
Payne had a huge cap number and wasn't his injury pretty severe??

A Texan
03-15-2007, 02:52 PM
It'd be better for our team if Weaver could play DT, but he is best suited for strong side DE.

And LOL @ your lilttle equivilency explanation. That means absolutely nothing. Teams play players where they want to.
Texan Bill is right; A DE in a 3-4 is more like a tackle; his job is to tie up blockers the same as a tackle in the 4-3,

potisyourfriend
03-15-2007, 02:58 PM
I like the guy, I think he's a football player. but I think we could get a first day pick for him.

Maybe.

anyway, anyone know his contract situation, and what kind of hurt we'd take if we traded him??



The way I heard to see how much of a hit it would be do this..

Signing Bonus Divided by Years of Contract then Add the next years Salary to that Number and that's the hit.. I could be wrong..

TK_Gamer
03-15-2007, 03:07 PM
Arlington, I hate it when you tell it like it is, especially when it hurts so much.
But Babin's worth is much more likely to be a Sunday Draft pick than a Saturday Draft pick.
Right now Babin is 'bout our only annswer at weakside DE. Weaver can't give
us the kind of explosiveness, quickness we need from that spot. They've
actually released our best pure rusher, and he's got a Clevland address last time I heard.Weaver could play strong-side end, which would mean moving Mario to the
inside. And this could happen, since after last year many are feeling that Marios natural position in the NFL is at DT.

our unrefined unguided missle that couldnt even secure a 2nd string spot? that best guy? peek was released because he didnt perform his duties, not even in a limited pass rush heavy nickle . if Peek was our best guy you saw something I missed.

real
03-15-2007, 03:08 PM
Texan Bill is right; A DE in a 3-4 is more like a tackle; his job is to tie up blockers the same as a tackle in the 4-3,

That theory only reafirms my belief that football knowledge is rare.

Teams play players where they want to.

infantrycak
03-15-2007, 03:08 PM
The way I heard to see how much of a hit it would be do this..

Signing Bonus Divided by Years of Contract then Add the next years Salary to that Number and that's the hit.. I could be wrong..

The only hit on a trade is the remaining unprorated signing bonus. In Babin's case that is about $2.1 mil. The net effect to the cap is that minus his salary or in his case about $1.3 mil.

TK_Gamer
03-15-2007, 03:17 PM
Texan Bill is right; A DE in a 3-4 is more like a tackle; his job is to tie up blockers the same as a tackle in the 4-3,

Exactly, and weaver although he didnt get the sack numbers he did tie up blockers and got some very good run stuffing tackles. Personally I dont see weaver or Babin as a liability. I like em both. lets talk about Peek and thomas johnson, Peek is gone, and Johnson should be a june cut. I dont wanna remember all the missed tackles by johnson the put all the pressure on our Linebackers. if we have a glaring hole on defense is at the free safety spot. wich they have had ample opportunity to fix. Mcree was the best free safety we've had, and thats not a huge compliment. but alas he's gone anyway. we could have grabbed schulters, we could have grabbed Hamlin who could play FS. If we dont take one on day one of the draft I will be surprised and dissappointed. thoughts?

Vinny
03-15-2007, 03:37 PM
Babin will be a good back up to Jamaal Anderson...if we are lucky enough to snag him at 8.

BSofA04
03-15-2007, 04:05 PM
Babin will be a good back up to Jamaal Anderson...if we are lucky enough to snag him at 8.

Absolutley! Anderson is my #1 pick if available. He would be a force opposite Mario BUT....more than likely he'll be gone.

Texans Horror
03-15-2007, 07:23 PM
There are only so many moves a team can make in the offseason. And personally, I think Babin showed enough improvement to warrent keeping him onboard another year. I'm actually feeling a break-out year for Babin. With the old regime, they weren't using him right. In this one, he's back to playing defensive end where he belongs. He could still be a starter for the Texans.

tsip
03-15-2007, 10:18 PM
I like Babin. He's a good rusher, run stopper, and is adequate in pass coverage. But, unfortunately, he plays for a coach that loves to change defensive players from one play to the next-meaning he'll never get the 'consistent' playing time it takes to improve his game. Of course, Babin is not the only player that gets played this way...ironically, it's a shame this 'merry-go-round' style of play doesn't apply to ALL players...

A Texan
03-15-2007, 11:43 PM
I like Babin. He's a good rusher, run stopper, and is adequate in pass coverage. But, unfortunately, he plays for a coach that loves to change defensive players from one play to the next-meaning he'll never get the 'consistent' playing time it takes to improve his game. Of course, Babin is not the only player that gets played this way...ironically, it's a shame this 'merry-go-round' style of play doesn't apply to ALL players...

I suspect the reason they did that was they were trying to find out what they had and once the evaluation process is complete they will settle on certain players. Perhaps they'll let Babin start and if so hopefully he'll continue to make progress.