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freedoggy77
03-13-2007, 05:50 PM
can you name any?

i know one:

Ron Dayne 1999 :joker:

hot pickle
03-13-2007, 05:54 PM
Jason White - OU

didnt really play though, but from OU so hes a bust

Chris Weinke

someone suggested that we pick him up, HAHAHA, what a joke

Silver Oak
03-13-2007, 05:55 PM
Andre Ware.

Hands down the worst and most undeserving Heisman winner ever.

AlbinoRat
03-13-2007, 05:59 PM
Eric Crouch

michaelm
03-13-2007, 06:03 PM
Danny Wuerffel
Gino Torretta
Rashaan Salaam
Charlie Ward
Chris Weinke
Ty Detmer

About half of the winners over the last 16 years were NFL busts, although Charlie Ward has been (or was?) a pretty decent NBA player for a while...

IMO, Desmond Howard was a bust at WR, but was a pretty dangerous return man for a while.

Another thing to consider is that some of these guys aren't really NFL busts, because no one ever expected them to be stars at the next level. I know D. Wuerffel and C. Ward were never expected to do much in the NFL.

freedoggy77
03-13-2007, 06:08 PM
so a heisman winner went to basketball? wtf???
i have a feeling troy smith will do alright

Anguyen
03-13-2007, 06:09 PM
Doug Flutie

TEXANS84
03-13-2007, 06:10 PM
Andre Ware

michaelm
03-13-2007, 06:14 PM
so a heisman winner went to basketball? wtf???
i have a feeling troy smith will do alright

IIRC, Ward didn't even enter the NFL draft...

Here is a pretty interesting read about him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Ward

Trap_Star
03-13-2007, 09:55 PM
Charles Woodson is a bust IMO...He had all that hype yet was never at any point considered the best CB in the NFL...

hot pickle
03-13-2007, 10:28 PM
Charles Woodson is a bust IMO...He had all that hype yet was never at any point considered the best CB in the NFL...

ill agree he had a good rookie season and was average the rest, i have a bad feelin that dunta is gonna turn out like charles

Koolaid Time
03-13-2007, 11:11 PM
:stirpot: Reggie Bush

How about any quarterback from the University of Miami, Univ of Florida, and Florida State Univ?

freedoggy77
03-13-2007, 11:14 PM
Reggie Bush is in no way a bust. Plus it's much too early to tell. (however I realize you are probably kidding).

Ole Miss Texan
03-13-2007, 11:14 PM
Carson Palmer...err. I mean...

RICKY WILLIAMS.

Showtime100
03-13-2007, 11:48 PM
Who was that guy...did Marcus DuPree, RB from Oklahoma ever get one?? I hope I even got the name right.

run-david-run
03-14-2007, 01:31 AM
Carson Palmer...err. I mean...

RICKY WILLIAMS.

Yep..leading the league in rushing twice puts him squarley in "bust" contention.

Please_Evolve
03-14-2007, 01:33 AM
Eric Crouch

that'd be mine.

Sorry Ol Miss Ricky lead the league once in rushing...busts don't do that. Hate on the guy all you want but if smoking pot is the worst you have on him then he's a saint(ok yes i know lame) compared to a lot of people in the league. See Bengals and now Jags.

I think the Jason White one was...i don't know no one really expected his knees to hold up outside of Oklahoma. I think he knew that too and kind of threw his hat in the draft for the heck of it. Isn't he coaching now?

Ole Miss Texan
03-14-2007, 01:39 AM
Yep..leading the league in rushing twice puts him squarley in "bust" contention.

i'll agree he's not a bust like we're naming but i'm throwing his name out there. he had some decent seasons, '02 was his great one...he could have done more than smoke tha mary jane with hootie and go play football in canada... would anyone disagree his career went downhill fast!?

2002 season was good where he had 16 TD's but other than that he had 9 or less every season...not to mention he's missed 2 of the last 3 seasons because he's wasting his talent....his head isn't in the right place.

Please_Evolve
03-14-2007, 01:52 AM
i'll agree he's not a bust like we're naming but i'm throwing his name out there. he had some decent seasons, '02 was his great one...he could have done more than smoke tha mary jane with hootie and go play football in canada... would anyone disagree his career went downhill fast!?

2002 season was good where he had 16 TD's but other than that he had 9 or less every season...not to mention he's missed 2 of the last 3 seasons because he's wasting his talent....his head isn't in the right place.

I think most of it was the retirement gig. I do agree though Dave W was going to run Ricky into the ground he could've voiced his opions and thoughts better.

I think the CFL gig isn't that bad of an idea to keep him in shape and out of trouble if you're the dolphins. Some people travel a different path and i can respect that about Ricky even if others can't. At least he's not Lawrence Phillips. Say what you want about the guy but he's never done anything that bad.

Koolaid Time
03-14-2007, 05:08 AM
Yep..leading the league in rushing twice puts him squarley in "bust" contention.

Well, New Orleans trading its whole 1999 draft for him makes Ricky Williams a BUST

Stros5Texans80
03-14-2007, 06:35 AM
I don't know if we are going for overall busts. If that's the case, then Mario WIlliams was a bust. Ricky's later years showed he was a star, as I hope Mario's will show in the future.

Exithios
03-14-2007, 08:47 AM
I don't know if we are going for overall busts. If that's the case, then Mario WIlliams was a bust. Ricky's later years showed he was a star, as I hope Mario's will show in the future.

A "bust" is defined as someone who has exhausted every ounce of talent into what they did and faltered.

Mario Williams hung with the average NFL calibre DE's with 2 flat tires. To me, that does not constitute a bust.

HOU-TEX
03-14-2007, 10:53 AM
I think Troy Smith will end up in this catagory.:hides:

Huge
03-14-2007, 11:03 AM
Depends on your definition of "bust".

IMO, a "bust" is somebody that doesn't meet his expectations. Guys like Gino Toretta (7th round), Eric Crouch (drafted to play WR but wanted to play QB), Charlie Ward (went to the NBA), etc. weren't expected to do much in the NFL.

Charles Woodson is a 3-time Pro-Bowler. That's not a bust.
Doug Flutie has over 14K yards passing with 86 TDs to 68 INTs in limited action. When given the opportunity, he produced. That's not a bust. Same could also be said of Ty Detmer but not near the level of Flutie.

Archie Griffin (the only 2-time Heisman winner) didn't do diddly as a pro but had some injuries. He could be a bust but I hate to label injury cases as busts.

Based on their draft position and expectations going into the NFL, I'd say Rashaan Salaam has been the biggest Heisman bust.

hadaad
03-14-2007, 05:31 PM
Doug Flutie

I disagree. Yeah, he didn't pan out in the NFL at the beginning, but he came to Canada, kicked tail and then went to Buffalo and led the Bills to what? A 10-6 season?

swtbound07
03-14-2007, 05:34 PM
Reggie Bush. I'm not joking in the slightest...that much money for that few TD's and a sub 4 ypc...BUST.

jerek
03-14-2007, 05:38 PM
Yep..leading the league in rushing twice puts him squarley in "bust" contention.

Burning out less than half way into his life expectancy as an NFL running back because of personal issues makes Ricky Williams a bust.

I will concede that it's too early to label Reggie Bush as a bust, given that we've only seen one season. Thus, I'll stick with predicting that he will be a bust, given the gag-me level of hype ascribed to him for the two years prior to the second half of this season and his ridiculously fat check.

Troy Smith will not make it in the NFL.

swtbound07
03-14-2007, 05:41 PM
Burning out less than half way into his life expectancy as an NFL running back because of personal issues makes Ricky Williams a bust.

I will concede that it's too early to label Reggie Bush as a bust, given that we've only seen one season. Thus, I'll stick with predicting that he will be a bust, given the gag-me level of hype ascribed to him for the two years prior to the second half of this season and his ridiculously fat check.

Troy Smith will not make it in the NFL.

But if the definition of bust is not living up to expectations, and the expectations were for some sort of super gale sayers/barry sanders/jerome mathis on special teams/keyshawn johnson wide reciever rb kick returning hybrid, then one must concede his first season was a bust of collosal proportions. reggie bust, super decoy

Lucky
03-14-2007, 05:51 PM
Andre Ware.

Hands down the worst and most undeserving Heisman winner ever.

Right. The Heisman should have gone to the great Anthony Thompson (2nd). Or the immortal Major Harris (3rd). Maybe that legendary star, Tony Rice (4th). Perhaps the unparalled Darian Hagan (5th).

Ware won the trophy, despite Thompson receiving more than twice as many vote points in the Soutwest region (306-141) as Ware. That's how hated Ware and UH were by the Horn and Aggie sportswriters in Texas.

Was Andre Ware a bust in the NFL? Absolutely.

Was Andre Ware a deserving recipient of the Heisman trophy in 1989? Absolutely.

Huge
03-14-2007, 09:53 PM
Reggie Bush. I'm not joking in the slightest...that much money for that few TD's and a sub 4 ypc...BUST.

How much money they're getting doesn't matter. The size of contracts have increased over time. It happens. That'd be like saying David Carr has been a bigger bust than Ryan Leaf (Carr was drafted higher than Leaf after all) because Carr is making more money.

And if you base their bust status on their rookie seasons, then you'd have to put Carson Palmer at the top of this list. He didn't even see the field his rookie year. Talk about a lack of production.

Showtime100
03-15-2007, 03:25 AM
Right. The Heisman should have gone to the great Anthony Thompson (2nd). Or the immortal Major Harris (3rd). Maybe that legendary star, Tony Rice (4th). Perhaps the unparalled Darian Hagan (5th).

Ware won the trophy, despite Thompson receiving more than twice as many vote points in the Soutwest region (306-141) as Ware. That's how hated Ware and UH were by the Horn and Aggie sportswriters in Texas.

Was Andre Ware a bust in the NFL? Absolutely.

Was Andre Ware a deserving recipient of the Heisman trophy in 1989? Absolutely.

You've just restored my faith in mankind. I didn't have the #'s to say it as well as you did. Thanks.:)

jlam
03-15-2007, 09:10 AM
for that few TD's and a sub 4 ypc.

11? idonno:

Reggie struggled alot the first half of the season, I'll be the first to admit. But he did score 11 TD's (even after not scoring an offensive TD until week 9 against Pitt) including postseason in an offense that spreads the ball around and refuses to feature any one player predominantly. He improved throughout the season while fighting through two separate ankle injuries and proved to be the big play threat we thought he could be towards the end of the year.

Now, could he have done better? Sure. Were there even rookies who statistically had better seasons? Absolutely (Jones-Drew had a fantastic year and Addai was very solid). But calling Reggie Bush a bust is straight unbased bitterness.

I just think too many people let their emotions get in the way of an objective point of view because of the whole media induced "Houston is stupid, why didn't they pick Bush/Young?" thing. I can't say I blame you to an extent, hell I've been there (1999 has already been mentioned in this very thread). Your front office may or may not have made a mistake in taking Williams #1 overall, we won't know for sure for a while. But it's all too obvious when the assessment of another team's player is subject to a prior agenda (defending Williams).

TwinSisters
03-15-2007, 09:27 AM
Did anybody bring up Steve Spurrier and Billy Cannon?

TCU's Davey O'Brien too. Two seasons with the Eagles then he hangs it up for the FBI. Talk about a mental problem.
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/decades/1930s/davey_obrien.jsp

LikeABoss
03-16-2007, 04:23 PM
11? idonno:

Reggie struggled alot the first half of the season, I'll be the first to admit. But he did score 11 TD's (even after not scoring an offensive TD until week 9 against Pitt) including postseason in an offense that spreads the ball around and refuses to feature any one player predominantly. He improved throughout the season while fighting through two separate ankle injuries and proved to be the big play threat we thought he could be towards the end of the year.

Now, could he have done better? Sure. Were there even rookies who statistically had better seasons? Absolutely (Jones-Drew had a fantastic year and Addai was very solid). But calling Reggie Bush a bust is straight unbased bitterness.

I just think too many people let their emotions get in the way of an objective point of view because of the whole media induced "Houston is stupid, why didn't they pick Bush/Young?" thing. I can't say I blame you to an extent, hell I've been there (1999 has already been mentioned in this very thread). Your front office may or may not have made a mistake in taking Williams #1 overall, we won't know for sure for a while. But it's all too obvious when the assessment of another team's player is subject to a prior agenda (defending Williams).

You're wasting your time trying to reason with that dude.

He already stated on this forum that he hates Reggie Bush.

And that he would still hate him even if the Texans drafted him.

It's basically a lost cause...

But when Reggie keeps proving him wrong he's gonna be ready to:gun:

:tv:

swtbound07
03-16-2007, 04:31 PM
You're wasting your time trying to reason with that dude.

He already stated on this forum that he hates Reggie Bush.

And that he would still hate him even if the Texans drafted him.

It's basically a lost cause...

But when Reggie keeps proving him wrong he's gonna be ready to:gun:

:tv:

All reggie has proved is that san francisco was pretty bad against the run. He sucks, has sucked, will continue to suck into infinity, etc. until the end of time. The most overhyped, overrated, lousy player in my lifetime, and i grew up down the road from andre ware.

jerek
03-16-2007, 05:06 PM
11? idonno:

Reggie struggled alot the first half of the season, I'll be the first to admit. But he did score 11 TD's (even after not scoring an offensive TD until week 9 against Pitt) including postseason in an offense that spreads the ball around and refuses to feature any one player predominantly. He improved throughout the season while fighting through two separate ankle injuries and proved to be the big play threat we thought he could be towards the end of the year.

Now, could he have done better? Sure. Were there even rookies who statistically had better seasons? Absolutely (Jones-Drew had a fantastic year and Addai was very solid). But calling Reggie Bush a bust is straight unbased bitterness.

I just think too many people let their emotions get in the way of an objective point of view because of the whole media induced "Houston is stupid, why didn't they pick Bush/Young?" thing. I can't say I blame you to an extent, hell I've been there (1999 has already been mentioned in this very thread). Your front office may or may not have made a mistake in taking Williams #1 overall, we won't know for sure for a while. But it's all too obvious when the assessment of another team's player is subject to a prior agenda (defending Williams).

4 TDs against the nobody 49ers.

Leaving 6 other TDs across 15 regular season games.

For how much money? Performance given for money paid, ranked against other rookies--let alone the rest of the NFL?

I rank players according to what the consistently do for their team. I.e. making a significant contribution in one game, a notable contribution in six games, and completely disappearing in the other 9, equals, for the paycheck received, equals ...

Bust. At least this for this season. Talk about agendas.

LikeABoss
03-16-2007, 05:58 PM
All reggie has proved is that san francisco was pretty bad against the run. He sucks, has sucked, will continue to suck into infinity, etc. until the end of time. The most overhyped, overrated, lousy player in my lifetime, and i grew up down the road from andre ware.

But Sorry-O Williams is the best defensive end in the league in your eyes though right?

LikeABoss
03-16-2007, 06:04 PM
4 TDs against the nobody 49ers.



How can the 49ers be a nobody team when they have a better record than your team and was in contention of winning their division unlike your team?

swtbound07
03-17-2007, 04:34 PM
How can the 49ers be a nobody team when they have a better record than your team and was in contention of winning their division unlike your team?


The NFC is horrible...1-2 elite teams every year, and the rest are garbage. We aren't far from having a sub .500 NFC team in the playoffs. Put the 49ers in the AFC South and they are getting toasted every week. And as to mario williams, im not the biggestfan, but anybody but reggie was preferably. BUST

ThaShark316
03-17-2007, 05:31 PM
LMAO @ anyone believing Reggie Bush is a bust and being serious...damn some people need to stick to that "No spin zone".

LikeABoss
03-17-2007, 07:21 PM
The NFC is horrible...1-2 elite teams every year, and the rest are garbage. We aren't far from having a sub .500 NFC team in the playoffs. Put the 49ers in the AFC South and they are getting toasted every week. And as to mario williams, im not the biggestfan, but anybody but reggie was preferably. BUST

I don't want to hear any of these lame a s s excuses.

The fact of the matter is the 49ers are in the NFC, were in contention of winning their division, and ya'll weren't plain and simple.

Mario Williams was drafted #1 overall over Reggie Bush and was supposed to redefine the defensive end position.

The dude didn't even register one sack after ya'll played the New York Giants and that was in the early part of November.

Our guy got better as the season progressed, scored a TD in both our playoff games, and had the longest TD ever in the NFC Title game.

But you still consider our guy a bust?

Man, you a lame and I'm done arguing with you.

Just continue talking out of your rear like you always do:ok:

swtbound07
03-17-2007, 07:30 PM
I don't want to hear any of these lame a s s excuses.

The fact of the matter is the 49ers are in the NFC, were in contention of winning their division, and ya'll weren't plain and simple.

Mario Williams was drafted #1 overall over Reggie Bush and was supposed to redefine the defensive end position.

The dude didn't even register one sack after ya'll played the New York Giants and that was in the early part of November.

Our guy got better as the season progressed, scored a TD in both our playoff games, and had the longest TD ever in the NFC Title game.

But you still consider our guy a bust?

Man, you a lame and I'm done arguing with you.

Just continue talking out of your rear like you always do:ok:


Your guy sucks. Hows that for ending an arguement. Enjoy the 50+million dollar scat back. If he can find himself...he got the hell knocked out of him in the eagles game

ThaShark316
03-17-2007, 08:38 PM
I don't want to hear any of these lame a s s excuses.

The fact of the matter is the 49ers are in the NFC, were in contention of winning their division, and ya'll weren't plain and simple.

Mario Williams was drafted #1 overall over Reggie Bush and was supposed to redefine the defensive end position.

The dude didn't even register one sack after ya'll played the New York Giants and that was in the early part of November.

Our guy got better as the season progressed, scored a TD in both our playoff games, and had the longest TD ever in the NFC Title game.

But you still consider our guy a bust?

Man, you a lame and I'm done arguing with you.

Just continue talking out of your rear like you always do:ok:

I don't like the kid, but he has a point.

awtysst
03-17-2007, 08:48 PM
I think part of the issue with the whole Reggie Bush thing is that he was so ridiculously hyped by ESPN. ESPN hyped him as the next coming of Gail Sayers/Barry Sanders all rolled into one. That is a really hyping the kid to the moon and when he doesn't produce that type of effort(and he didn't look at the numbers), people call him a bust.

I think its way to ealry to call him a bust. He had a rookie season. He will make more improvements as time goes along. Peyton didnt have a great first year with the Colts(26 tds 28 Ints), but he has turned it around into a great career. Thus, I think you can't really talk about Bust until the person is out of the league.

Mario Williams was on pace for an 9 sack season before developing a foot injury and even after he was still disruptive and was getting into the backfield. I will not label him a bust becuase he was learning and working on his game. Its way too early to see how effective he can be, but I believe he will be.

Reggie Bush also started out slow had a great game against SF and played pretty well in the playoffs. I honestly think he is more a WR than a RB, but one season cannot and should not determine if a player is a bust. Reggie also was benefitted from Drew Brees, a healthy Deuce, and the emergence of a late round draft pick, Colston, that made defenses constantly take a look for him. If Drew Brees is not there, McCalister does not recover from injury, and colston is not drafted, who knows how Reggie ends up.

Neither Reggie and Mario are Busts in my mind. If you want one how about Ryan Leif? A guy who some people thought would be a better NFL QB than Manning. Whoops!

jvaldez1984
03-17-2007, 09:01 PM
it has yet to be seen but i think troy smith will be a bust. he did great things at OSU i just dont think he"ll make an impact in the NFL.

jerek
03-18-2007, 03:08 PM
But Sorry-O Williams is the best defensive end in the league in your eyes though right?

The very worst comeback I've ever read. Neither swtbound07 nor myself have ever called Mario the best DE in the league nor anything approaching it. He was drafted a project and primarily for development of his enormous potential and has progressed sufficiently toward that end to this point given the circumstances, including his injury. While we're on the topic of unwarranted and far reaching personal shots, be sure to give Reggie my best for playing in the All-Star weekend and skrewing up his ankle.

Specnatz
03-18-2007, 03:45 PM
I don't want to hear any of these lame a s s excuses.

The fact of the matter is the 49ers are in the NFC, were in contention of winning their division, and ya'll weren't plain and simple.

Mario Williams was drafted #1 overall over Reggie Bush and was supposed to redefine the defensive end position.

The dude didn't even register one sack after ya'll played the New York Giants and that was in the early part of November.

Our guy got better as the season progressed, scored a TD in both our playoff games, and had the longest TD ever in the NFC Title game.

But you still consider our guy a bust?

Man, you a lame and I'm done arguing with you.

Just continue talking out of your rear like you always do:ok:


I have a serious question for you, you use terms Our Guy when talking abolut Reggie Bush yet you are so obssed with the Texans and with VY that is who you have in your avitar, why? Is it you are a fair weather fan or just wanting to ride someone's jock for a few years then pick a new one to ride? Seriously, you want to think about moving on and getting over it.

You talk about the 49ers being in contintion to winning there division but you fail to point out that the NFC west is extrmely weak and that, that division winner would not have been in contention in the AFC South. This right here is what people would call not letting facts get in the way of making a point.

As far as Bush being a bust that is wrong and neither is Mario, you do not call any player a bust after one year.

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2007, 04:00 PM
I'm just glad that owner's of nfl franchises and general managers don't get as worked up over 1 season as some of you guys.

Vince Young exceded everyone's expectation. Not only the point of starting that early but w/ the leadership qualities he showed...and his ability to flat out win.

Reggie Bush had way too much hype going into this whole thing. I would love to see him be able to do the things he does if he weighed 10-15 lbs more. He started the season off very slow. he was not an incredible rb, not an incredible wr...but when you add his rb,wr, and special teams ability he really came on as the season progressed. that's all you can ask for in a rookie...he got better as the season went on. I worry about his long term durability...he's going to get jacked up like he did against the eagles..more. i was very impressed he came back as strong as he did..i don't see his career lasting more than 7 years unfortunately...awesome athlete though.

Mario Williams had a 'disappointing' season w/ regard to sacks. he started of with getting both his tonails removed on his big toes, then had plantar fascitis the whole season which is very painful. got cortisone shots before every game which wore off by halftime. the coaching staff played him all along the line to start off the season. once they got him settled down to only the DE position he started getting comfortable. He had 4.5 sacks during the season while not playing his position the whole time but moving around and trying new things. tipped pass that saved the 2 point conversion in the miami game for our win, key FF or FR? in the Indy game that helped us take the lead and set the tone of the game.

While reggie bush was the only heisman winner of the three, i wouldn't call him a bust. he had some spectacular plays but hasn't redefined the position. imo he hasn't performed up to the point that espn hyped him upto and thats why they stopped talking about him and started the whole mario vs vince thing..not reggie.

I am really looking forward to mario this season. he will have more help around him on defense, he will hopefully only be put at DE! and let him do his thing. he's gonna get used to the game and pace of play and the stats will come. If anybody actually watched each game you can see the flashes of eliteness from him. he is a dominant run stopper and teams got nowhere when they ran to his side. whether haters will admit it or not...team did infact gameplan around mario and play selections...QB's audibled to the other side of the line from him. he's going to be healthy and is gonna be saweet!

LikeABoss
03-18-2007, 11:10 PM
The very worst comeback I've ever read. Neither swtbound07 nor myself have ever called Mario the best DE in the league nor anything approaching it. He was drafted a project and primarily for development of his enormous potential and has progressed sufficiently toward that end to this point given the circumstances, including his injury. While we're on the topic of unwarranted and far reaching personal shots, be sure to give Reggie my best for playing in the All-Star weekend and skrewing up his ankle.

Spin how ever the hell you want, the fact of the matter is the guy was drafted #1 overall and was a huge disappointment.

No excuses...

LikeABoss
03-18-2007, 11:17 PM
blah, blah, blah...

You talk about the 49ers being in contintion to winning there division but you fail to point out that the NFC west is extrmely weak and that, that division winner would not have been in contention in the AFC South. This right here is what people would call not letting facts get in the way of making a point.

As far as Bush being a bust that is wrong and neither is Mario, you do not call any player a bust after one year.

Save me the "if such and such was in this division," excuse aight.

The fact of the matter is the 49ers had a better chance of winning their division then ya'll did and that's a fact.

And i'm still trying to figure what so tough about the AFC South.

I mean there was only one elite team in that division and the rest of teams were medicore.

If i'm not mistaken, the Colts is the only team to ever win that damn division since it even became a division.

I'm sorry, but the AFC South is by far one of the weakest divisions in the NFL.

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2007, 11:22 PM
Spin how ever the hell you want, the fact of the matter is the guy was drafted #1 overall and was a huge disappointment.

No excuses...

I'm not trying to spin anything...because i'll flat out say that yes reggie and vince out performed mario this season.

the staff wasn't concerned about having mario look good this season though...they're 'training' him...coaching him, seeing what he can do, and where he fits, how they are going to use them when a season actually matters. texans were never going anywhere last season..playoffs weren't considered imo...lol

Defensive players have a harder time of "showing a difference" or making a lot of stats/ highlight reals. QB and RB are two positions that you can show good play after good play... rushing yards, passing yards, receiving yards, TD's, ypc, et. Defensively...people really only look at tackles and sacks for DE's...that's it. ESPN won't show when Peppers does his job against the tackle and somebody else tackles the RB, or causes no hole to open up for the RB. ESPN only shows big hits and interceptions for defense.

therefore, i think it's easier to say a defensive player was a bust. does this make any sense or am i not making any? lol

LikeABoss
03-18-2007, 11:24 PM
I'm not trying to spin anything...because i'll flat out say that yes reggie and vince out performed mario this season.

the staff wasn't concerned about having mario look good this season though...they're 'training' him...coaching him, seeing what he can do, and where he fits, how they are going to use them when a season actually matters. texans were never going anywhere last season..playoffs weren't considered imo...lol

Defensive players have a harder time of "showing a difference" or making a lot of stats/ highlight reals. QB and RB are two positions that you can show good play after good play... rushing yards, passing yards, receiving yards, TD's, ypc, et. Defensively...people really only look at tackles and sacks for DE's...that's it. ESPN won't show when Peppers does his job against the tackle and somebody else tackles the RB, or causes no hole to open up for the RB. ESPN only shows big hits and interceptions for defense.

therefore, i think it's easier to say a defensive player was a bust. does this make any sense or am i not making any? lol

Umm...No disrespect, but I was talking about Jerek:)

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2007, 11:40 PM
Umm...No disrespect, but I was talking about Jerek:)

oh i know, i saw the quote...i just wanted to give my input....as unbiased as i could ; )

TwinSisters
03-19-2007, 12:38 AM
Defensive players have a harder time of "showing a difference" or making a lot of stats/ highlight reals. QB and RB are two positions that you can show good play after good play... rushing yards, passing yards, receiving yards, TD's, ypc, et. Defensively...people really only look at tackles and sacks for DE's...that's it. ESPN won't show when Peppers does his job against the tackle and somebody else tackles the RB, or causes no hole to open up for the RB. ESPN only shows big hits and interceptions for defense.

therefore, i think it's easier to say a defensive player was a bust.

well I wouldn't say everything is about tackles and sacks. Sacks are the center piece of a DE. You expect to see some kind of increase in INTs and a decrease in completion % of the opponents with a better pass rush.

The Texans defense ( 65.1 ) was only tad bit better than Detroit ( 66.3 ) in passes completed against them. That's a whole 10% difference from the leaders in the NFL at 54-56%.

If the QB has to hurry, you expect him to make more mistakes over the long run. It's not all about playing Peyton Manning either, because Jacksonville seems to be able to level out with 56% and 20 INTs while playing the Colts twice also.

I don't rule out having a neanderthal calling the defense though. That has got to have some kinda of negative pressure on the performance of a defense.

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2007, 01:24 AM
well I wouldn't say everything is about tackles and sacks. Sacks are the center piece of a DE. You expect to see some kind of increase in INTs and a decrease in completion % of the opponents with a better pass rush.

The Texans defense ( 65.1 ) was only tad bit better than Detroit ( 66.3 ) in passes completed against them. That's a whole 10% difference from the leaders in the NFL at 54-56%.

If the QB has to hurry, you expect him to make more mistakes over the long run. It's not all about playing Peyton Manning either, because Jacksonville seems to be able to level out with 56% and 20 INTs while playing the Colts twice also.

I don't rule out having a neanderthal calling the defense though. That has got to have some kinda of negative pressure on the performance of a defense.

you're exactly right. I think each position on the team directly effects other players. Dunta doesn't look very good lately because he's not getting help...I love that this is the ultimate team sport...

i guess my point was that typical fans want highlights and stats...if they don't see much of either..that player is a bust. by that definition it'd be easier to write off a D player as a bust because there are less stats the typical fan cares about and harder to achieve than on offense.

DenverBorn
03-19-2007, 01:36 AM
Here's who I nominate as busts, going back to 1960:

2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB
1992 Gino Torretta Miami QB
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB
1989 Andre Ware Houston QB
1975 Archie Griffin Ohio State RB
1974 Archie Griffin Ohio State RB
1973 John Cappelletti Penn State RB
1972 Johnny Rodgers Nebraska WR
1971 Pat Sullivan Auburn QB
1967 Gary Beban UCLA QB
1966 Steve Spurrier Florida QB
1964 John Huarte Notre Dame QB
1962 Terry Baker Oregon State QB
1960 Joe Bellino Navy HB


What's interesting to me is that every Heisman winner from 1976 through 1988 was productive for at least some period of time. Some were better than others, but I don't believe any qualify as "busts". Here's that list, tell me if you disagree:

1988 Barry Sanders Oklahoma State RB
1987 Tim Brown Notre Dame WR
1986 Vinny Testaverde Miami QB
1985 Bo Jackson Auburn RB
1984 Doug Flutie Boston College QB
1983 Mike Rozier Nebraska RB
1982 Herschel Walker Georgia RB
1981 Marcus Allen Southern California RB
1980 George Rogers South Carolina RB
1979 Charles White Southern California RB
1978 Billy Sims Oklahoma RB
1977 Earl Campbell Texas RB
1976 Tony Dorsett Pittsburgh RB

But then starting in 1989, 10 of the next 15 Heisman winners were busts (with apologies to Mr Dayne). And prior to 1976, 10 of the previous 16 were "busts" as well.

kastofsna
03-19-2007, 09:28 AM
most of them were runningbacks, and generally runningbacks have had higher probability to be successful in the NFL compared to the heisman winning QB's.

and anyone that's calling reggie bush a bust is just idiotic and has an agenda. overrated, maybe. but certainly no bust.

TwinSisters
03-19-2007, 11:00 AM
Joe Bellino had to serve in the US Navy for 4 years before playing. I don't think he should count.

John Huarte wasn't selected in the first round ( The NFL took him in the 6th round ). That shouldn't count as a bust either.

Mr teX
03-19-2007, 01:40 PM
Here's who I nominate as busts, going back to 1960:

2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB
1992 Gino Torretta Miami QB
1990 Ty Detmer Brigham Young QB
1989 Andre Ware Houston QB
1975 Archie Griffin Ohio State RB
1974 Archie Griffin Ohio State RB
1973 John Cappelletti Penn State RB
1972 Johnny Rodgers Nebraska WR
1971 Pat Sullivan Auburn QB
1967 Gary Beban UCLA QB
1966 Steve Spurrier Florida QB
1964 John Huarte Notre Dame QB
1962 Terry Baker Oregon State QB
1960 Joe Bellino Navy HB


What's interesting to me is that every Heisman winner from 1976 through 1988 was productive for at least some period of time. Some were better than others, but I don't believe any qualify as "busts". Here's that list, tell me if you disagree:

1988 Barry Sanders Oklahoma State RB
1987 Tim Brown Notre Dame WR
1986 Vinny Testaverde Miami QB
1985 Bo Jackson Auburn RB
1984 Doug Flutie Boston College QB
1983 Mike Rozier Nebraska RB
1982 Herschel Walker Georgia RB
1981 Marcus Allen Southern California RB
1980 George Rogers South Carolina RB
1979 Charles White Southern California RB
1978 Billy Sims Oklahoma RB
1977 Earl Campbell Texas RB
1976 Tony Dorsett Pittsburgh RB

But then starting in 1989, 10 of the next 15 Heisman winners were busts (with apologies to Mr Dayne). And prior to 1976, 10 of the previous 16 were "busts" as well.


Major Bust right there, his best season he barely had 1K in rushing & 100 yds in recieving. I remember pops yelling at the television during those times with the oilers; probably was yelling at him.

HOU-TEX
03-19-2007, 02:30 PM
Major Bust right there, his best season he barely had 1K in rushing & 100 yds in recieving. I remember pops yelling at the television during those times with the oilers; probably was yelling at him.

Maybe, but he's a great guy. The first time I met him was in the hospital. I think it was after the 87 or 88 season. We were both in the same pre-op room. We were both scheduled for ankle surgery from injuries during the previous seasons. We met again in the late 90's I believe. His daughter played soccer with my daughter. Of course he didn't remember me from surgery 10 years earlier.:lightbulb: Then again why would he? He's a great guy to meet.