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View Full Version : How do you think Brady Quinn compares with the big 3?


gtexan02
03-11-2007, 11:06 AM
Lets throw in Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers as well.

We've got, in alphabetical order:
Jay Cutler
Matt Leinart
Brady Quinn
Aaron Rodgers
Alex Smith
Vince Young

Try thinking about who throws the best short route, who throws the best deep ball, who moves around in the pocket the best, who is the most mobile, etc. Rate them on the following stats if it'll help, or just rank them:

Arm Strength:

Accuracy:

Mobility:

Pocket Presence:

Leadership Ability:

Overall:

gtexan02
03-11-2007, 12:04 PM
Here's my order (I don't know enough about each guy to do the individual stat rankings, but heres a guess) I'm also not ranking Rogers and Smith because I know nothing about them

Arm Strength: VY, Cutler, Quinn, Leinart
Accuracy: Leinart, Quinn, VY, Cutler
Mobility: VY, Cutler, Quinn, Leinart
Pocket Presence: Leinart, Quinn, VY, Cutler
Leadership Ability: VY, Quinn, Leinart, Cutler
Overall: VY, Quinn, Leinart, Cutler

Not sure how I feel about Leinart vs. Quinn. On the one hand, Leinart put up better numbers but had a much better surrounding cast. Leinart was less the leader of the team than Bush, and had some questions regarding his arm strength. Quinn's numbers were still great with a worse cast, but he never displayed the big time game winning ability that Leinart did.

What do you think?

freedoggy77
03-11-2007, 12:29 PM
gtexan has it about right

kastofsna
03-11-2007, 02:15 PM
vince young doesn't have that strong of an arm, certainly not stronger than cutler's.

Arm Strength: cutler, quinn, young, leinart

Accuracy: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Mobility: young, cutler, quinn, leinart

Pocket Presence: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Leadership Ability: cutler, young, leinart, quinn (all very good though)

Overall: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

gtexan02
03-11-2007, 02:33 PM
vince young doesn't have that strong of an arm, certainly not stronger than cutler's.

Arm Strength: cutler, quinn, young, leinart

Accuracy: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Mobility: young, cutler, quinn, leinart

Pocket Presence: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Leadership Ability: cutler, young, leinart, quinn (all very good though)

Overall: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

I like everything but your leadership ability and overall. No way is anyone a better leader than Young. Everyone he's ever played with has publically proven this.

And in overall, no way is Young at the bottom. I still think leinart was a little overrated

threetoedpete
03-11-2007, 02:39 PM
I like everything but your leadership ability and overall. No way is anyone a better leader than Young. Everyone he's ever played with has publically proven this.

And in overall, no way is Young at the bottom. I still think leinart was a little overrated

I don't know gtex...Cuttler certainly had less tallent at his disposal on the collegiate level than Young did. i.e. he did much more with much less. Gotta be like Christmass in July for him at the pro level now. Gonna be fun to see who makes greater strides in their second year. Will agree, Vincent is the best running back palying QB in the NFL today.

kastofsna
03-11-2007, 02:58 PM
I like everything but your leadership ability and overall. No way is anyone a better leader than Young. Everyone he's ever played with has publically proven this.

And in overall, no way is Young at the bottom. I still think leinart was a little overrated
no, the players he's played with proved that he's a good leader. not that he's a better leader than cutler.

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2007, 02:59 PM
I don't know gtex...Cuttler certainly had less tallent at his disposal on the collegiate level than Young did. i.e. he did much more with much less. Gotta be like Christmass in July for him at the pro level now. Gonna be fun to see who makes greater strides in their second year. Will agree, Vincent is the best running back palying QB in the NFL today.

I think Young has great leadership skills...i think he can motivate the other players better than the others. it showed this season even with him as a rookie.

say pete....you think vince or vick is the better runner? i'd think vince is better passer...is that why you have him ahead of vick in the RB to QB ranking? lol

newbiefan
03-11-2007, 04:50 PM
Interesting thread, I haven't seen enough of any of them except VY to really make a judgment, but for arguments sake why don't you throw Jemarcus Russell into the mix.

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2007, 04:58 PM
Okay, good thinking...bolded is where I put Russell compared to the others.

Arm Strength: Jamarcus Russell, Cutler, VY, Quinn, Leinart
Accuracy: Leinart, Quinn, Cutler, VY, Jamarcus Russell
Mobility: VY, Cutler, Quinn, Jamarcus Russell, Leinart
Pocket Presence: Leinart, Quinn, VY, Jamarcus Russell, Cutler
Leadership Ability: VY, Quinn, Leinart, Jamarcus Russell, Cutler
Overall: VY, Quinn, Leinart, Cutler, Jamarcus Russell

Navy_Chris
03-11-2007, 05:00 PM
Okay, good thinking...bolded is where I put Russell compared to the others.

Arm Strength: Jamarcus Russell, Cutler, VY, Quinn, Leinart
Accuracy: Leinart, Quinn, Cutler, VY, Jamarcus Russell
Mobility: VY, Cutler, Quinn, Jamarcus Russell, Leinart
Pocket Presence: Leinart, Quinn, VY, Jamarcus Russell, Cutler
Leadership Ability: VY, Quinn, Leinart, Jamarcus Russell, Cutler
Overall: VY, Quinn, Leinart, Cutler, Jamarcus Russell

JaMarcus Russell's desire to be great in the NFL: Ryan Leaf comes to mind.

Trap_Star
03-11-2007, 05:20 PM
JaMarcus Russell's desire to be great in the NFL: Ryan Leaf comes to mind.

You rang?...

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0126/nfl_ap_leaf_195.jpg

TLove21
03-11-2007, 05:30 PM
haha all you think your analysts huh.....

youre comparing rookies and one year starters....i mean it all depends on the situation
they are in

Navy_Chris
03-11-2007, 05:33 PM
haha all you think your analysts huh.....

youre comparing rookies and one year starters....i mean it all depends on the situation
they are in

that's how we do it around here son.

BleedTheBurntOrange
03-11-2007, 06:00 PM
vince young doesn't have that strong of an arm, certainly not stronger than cutler's.

Arm Strength: cutler, quinn, young, leinart

Accuracy: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Mobility: young, cutler, quinn, leinart

Pocket Presence: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Leadership Ability: cutler, young, leinart, quinn (all very good though)

Overall: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Vince Young is the ultimate leader no way cutler is first if he was that big of a leader they would of went to a bowl game and not lost to Middle Tennessee State

And Vince is #1 overall, comparing him to the others right now is absurd

1 guy who isnt even in the NFL yet and won nothing in college

1 guy who led his team to a top 5 pick

1 guy who let his team get knocked out of the playoffs by the 49ers

and Vince who led his team to within a win at New England of making the playoffs on a team that had the #3 pick last year

The facts speak for themselves

threetoedpete
03-11-2007, 10:13 PM
Vince Young is the ultimate leader no way cutler is first if he was that big of a leader they would of went to a bowl game and not lost to Middle Tennessee State
And Vince is #1 overall, comparing him to the others right now is absurd

1 guy who isnt even in the NFL yet and won nothing in college

1 guy who led his team to a top 5 pick

1 guy who let his team get knocked out of the playoffs by the 49ers

and Vince who led his team to within a win at New England of making the playoffs on a team that had the #3 pick last year

The facts speak for themselves

I don't think Cuttler, ever, had top twenty recuiting class material to work with... ever. How many Vanderbilt guys have been drafted the last three years as compaired to the number of Texas Players who have been drafted ? I bet the ratio is considerable. You're correct Vincent has the most hardware. That wasn't the point of the arguement.

You're making my point for me.

Lot easier motivating, being a leader, when every one looking you in the face was a top one hundered guy coming out of highschool. As compaired to Cutler who willed his team to where they got with no tallent guys killing themselves for him tring not to embaress themselves, inspite of the lack of tallent. I'm pretty confident...history is going to show the plum on the board last year at QB was Cutller. Not Vincent or Lionheart. We'll see.

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2007, 11:01 PM
I'm in no way an expert when it comes down to this.

I'm basing my views which are close to some and far from others on the kind of players they are...what attributes they have or don't have...and basically what kind of prospect they are..or i think they are.

leinart, cutler, and young being in the nfl has no significance to this at all. Rex Grossman went to the superbowl last year...is he better than Brady Quinn just because of that...not no but hell no.

I don't base my OPINIONS on what team the guy plays for nfl or ncaa or what supporting cast he has.

Vanderbilt was a pretty darn bad football program.

Vanderbilt has only 3 players ever selected in the 1st round.
1984 pick #8 Leonard Coleman- S -Indianapolis
1986 pick #20 Will Wolford- T -Buffalo
2006 pick #11 Jay Cutler- QB - Denver
That's 20 years since their last 1st round pick.

Since the Texans existance only 4 vanderbilt players have been drafted.
2003-1 in the 5th round
2005-2 in the 6th round
2006-1 in the 1st round (and denver moved up for him)

Yea Cutler and Vanderbilt both sure had a lot to work with.

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 02:46 AM
i believe only one offensive player from vanderbilt has been drafted since 1990. excluding cutler.

BornOrange
03-12-2007, 07:37 AM
Young, Leinart, Cutler,.........a big gap...............Quinn


Quinn will prove to be no better than David Carr

Carr Bombed
03-12-2007, 07:53 AM
I just got to pipe in on the leadership thing.

No way in hell is anybody ahead of VY in leadership, sorry. Every level he's played on this is the first thing his players and coaches automatically talk about. He has a swagger thats contagious to his teamates and don't mind bringing up the players that Cutler played with in college, because I'm talking about when the 3 qbs went to the NFL. Vince had less to work with than any other QB in his class and he stepped in from day one and led the Titans as a rookie and the players followed and they won games in a much more competitive division/conference.

Lienart and Cutler aren't on his level yet leadership wise.

threetoedpete
03-12-2007, 09:43 AM
Vincent is a running QB who got lucky a couple of games. Nothing more. I know you love the guy, but it is what it is. Ignor the bad games, exhault the the good ones. Funny how the good ones all have the theme of a big run in them. Yep and Micheal Vick's runs made him a hero for a while. The herd caught up to Vick and it will catch up to Vincent as well. So are you now argueing leadership ? Or who is the best running QB in the national football league ? I'll give ya that one. Vincent Young has had to rely on his legs to over come his poor arm accuracy and his lack of abliity to absorb the (a) play book. He is a rare athlete. He is the best running QB currently in the NFL. Best QB over all ? Best of his class ? I certainly don't think so. I think Vincent's warts are going to start showing this season. Now how many warts it's going to take for you to see what alot of us have already seen is anyones guess. Tennesse has fourteen or so picks this year. Any team can stoke up a young QB with some tallent gotta be Tennesse. So after these fourteen picks, and Vincent still can't get over eight and eight hump, what then ?

gtexan02
03-12-2007, 10:35 AM
Vincent is a running QB who got lucky a couple of games. Nothing more. I know you love the guy, but it is what it is. Ignor the bad games, exhault the the good ones. Funny how the good ones all have the theme of a big run in them. Yep and Micheal Vick's runs made him a hero for a while. The herd caught up to Vick and it will catch up to Vincent as well. So are you now argueing leadership ? Or who is the best running QB in the national football league ? I'll give ya that one. Vincent Young has had to rely on his legs to over come his poor arm accuracy and his lack of abliity to absorb the (a) play book. He is a rare athlete. He is the best running QB currently in the NFL. Best QB over all ? Best of his class ? I certainly don't think so. I think Vincent's warts are going to start showing this season. Now how many warts it's going to take for you to see what alot of us have already seen is anyones guess. Tennesse has fourteen or so picks this year. Any team can stoke up a young QB with some tallent gotta be Tennesse. So after these fourteen picks, and Vincent still can't get over eight and eight hump, what then ?

First, I'd like to agree with you because Young's numbers are just os freaking ugly. But to claim that he's gotten lucky is crazy. He's been doing this his whole life. Going into situations where he's projected to fail, and suceeding, no matter how ugly the method. After a while its not luck.

Second 8-8 is a hump we haven't even made it to yet.

Please_Evolve
03-12-2007, 11:51 AM
Arm Strength:Cutler, Quinn, Young, Leinart

Accuracy:Leinart, Quinn, Cutler, Young

Mobility:Young, Cutler, Quinn, Leinart

Pocket Presence:Quinn, Leinart, Cutler, Young

Leadership Ability:Young, Quinn, Cutler, Leinart

Overall: Quinn, Cutler, Young, Leinart


JMO. But Quinn is the best pure prospect since Carson Palmer. He's been through big games at ND. Been in the spotlight pretty much all his career. Did he win all of them...no but one person can carry a team so far. He played with a less then stellar cast

Leinart has it pretty easy at USC. A superior suppoting cast an, solid line and a solid D to back him. I think he's landed ina pretty good situation for the most part in AZ. Great recieving corps and a good running back. If they work o nthe line this year and add to a not to obad Defense. the NFC west could be the most interesting division in football next year.

I think Vince Young is a solid QB and he's landed in Tennessee witha pretty good Coordinator. I think Chow will do a good job at molding him into a good qb. He had his ups and downs last year and did get lucky a few times. Didn't his defense and special teams score 3 TD's in one game? Definately them ost Raw of them but has th potential IMO to be like Donovan McNabb once he settles into the pocket more.

Cutler had less then all of the QB's to work with but still shined through. I think he landed in a good situation in Denver too. If i remember threw two TD's in every game he started. He's probaly going to win the most games of the QB's next year and play in one of the tougher divisions in football. He's going to be a gamer.

real
03-12-2007, 12:01 PM
Arm Strength:Cutler, Quinn, Young, Leinart

Accuracy:Leinart, Quinn, Cutler, Young

Mobility:Young, Cutler, Quinn, Leinart

Pocket Presence:Quinn, Leinart, Cutler, Young

Leadership Ability:Young, Quinn, Cutler, Leinart

Overall: Quinn, Cutler, Young, Leinart

Young shouldn't be last on that list for pocket presence...He's either first or second. And I don't know how you judge leadership, but Leinart is definitely not last....

Cutler had less then all of the QB's to work with but still shined through. I think he landed in a good situation in Denver too.

Funny how people use this argument to justify their POV. You can also say he played against worse competition than all those other guys too.

IMO, it should be Leinart, Young and Quinn, all about neck and neck, with just as much of chance to be first or third out of the group.

Cutler isn't that special. Not saying he isn't good, because I think he has a chance to be a good QB. I just don't think he is going to be special like those other guys.

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 12:04 PM
cutler certainly didn't play against worse competition. in fact, he played against much better than any of the other guys.

and just because he has leinart last in leadership doesn't mean he's not a good leader. he just feels the other guys are ahead of him.

real
03-12-2007, 12:11 PM
cutler certainly didn't play against worse competition. in fact, he played against much better than any of the other guys.

No he didn't. And i'll leave it at that.


and just because he has leinart last in leadership doesn't mean he's not a good leader. he just feels the other guys are ahead of him.


What does that have to do with my response ?

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 12:14 PM
lol, okay. so just make things up then. cutler not only played against better competition, but he did so with FAR less around him. sooooo....

and:
And I don't know how you judge leadership, but Leinart is definitely not last....

real
03-12-2007, 12:21 PM
and:

your quote in this regard was redundant...

He never said leinart was a bad leader so why would I assmue that ?

It's obvious that we have a disagreement about the order of the list. I don't get why you said "he doesn't think Leinart is a bad leader, just last on the list"...

I thought that was understood.

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 12:22 PM
he thinks the other guys are better leaders. simple as that.

real
03-12-2007, 12:23 PM
he thinks the other guys are better leaders. simple as that.

ok....

And i disagree.


:hmmm:

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 12:35 PM
then perhaps you shound expound onto why you disagree instead of making such a substanceless statement.

Please_Evolve
03-12-2007, 02:15 PM
Young shouldn't be last on that list for pocket presence...He's either first or second. And I don't know how you judge leadership, but Leinart is definitely not last....



Funny how people use this argument to justify their POV. You can also say he played against worse competition than all those other guys too.

IMO, it should be Leinart, Young and Quinn, all about neck and neck, with just as much of chance to be first or third out of the group.

Cutler isn't that special. Not saying he isn't good, because I think he has a chance to be a good QB. I just don't think he is going to be special like those other guys.

I thought by pocket presence you mean...before the snap makes his protection calls, scans the defense to see the the formation, as the defense shifts he calls the according protection scehem, makes his audibles, and after the snap reads the defense and makes his play accordingly.

No offense but Young was never that kind of guy for the most part. I'm a huge UT fan but according to they way i specify the term pocket presence he comes in last to those 4.

I picked Leinart last because...honestly he didn't NEED to be a huge leader at USC. His surrounding cast did a heck of a job in being prepared and knowing what to do. Not to mention usually athetetically superior. This doesn't mean i think he'sa horrible leader. Obviously to be a QB you have to have some leadership skills. I just think as opposed to the others that where he stands.

Sorry but Cutler played in the SEC on a best a decent team. He had way less to work with then any of the QB's listed including Quinn's less then stellar suporting cast. I think Cutler has a chance to be special. Among those rookies he's the only one to have thrown 2 TDs in all his starts he never threw for less then 200 yards if i can remember correctly. Being the FIRST QB to ever do that is like 4 starts. For my money Shanahan pulled the trigger on what could be the most all around QB in that draft. He got his Elway-esque QB.

I think Vince had a good rookie year but he had a lot of luck on some games and is credited (like any other Qb sometimes) with all the spoils of a victory and all the blame of losses. I hate not being able to cheer for him being on the hated Titans. But i'll reserve my judgement for next year without his starting RBs and Drew Bennett gone.

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 02:21 PM
vanderbilt is not a "decent" team. they're TERRIBLE. and they've been so for 30 years.

real
03-12-2007, 02:22 PM
I thought by pocket presence you mean...before the snap makes his protection calls, scans the defense to see the the formation, as the defense shifts he calls the according protection scehem, makes his audibles, and after the snap reads the defense and makes his play accordingly.

No offense but Young was never that kind of guy for the most part. I'm a huge UT fan but according to they way i specify the term pocket presence he comes in last to those 4.

I picked Leinart last because...honestly he didn't NEED to be a huge leader at USC. His surrounding cast did a heck of a job in being prepared and knowing what to do. Not to mention usually athetetically superior. This doesn't mean i think he'sa horrible leader. Obviously to be a QB you have to have some leadership skills. I just think as opposed to the others that where he stands.

Sorry but Cutler played in the SEC on a best a decent team. He had way less to work with then any of the QB's listed including Quinn's less then stellar suporting cast. I think Cutler has a chance to be special. Among those rookies he's the only one to have thrown 2 TDs in all his starts he never threw for less then 200 yards if i can remember correctly. Being the FIRST QB to ever do that is like 4 starts. For my money Shanahan pulled the trigger on what could be the most all around QB in that draft. He got his Elway-esque QB.

I think Vince had a good rookie year but he had a lot of luck on some games and is credited (like any other Qb sometimes) with all the spoils of a victory and all the blame of losses. I hate not being able to cheer for him being on the hated Titans. But i'll reserve my judgement for next year without his starting RBs and Drew Bennett gone.

Pocket presence is how a QB operates within the pocket post-snap.

And I still don't think Cutler played better competition. He may have faced better defenses overall, but I don't think he played some of the quality of teams that VY and Leinart faced over their careers.

As far as VY...He did get lucky in some games...

Still doesn't take away from his total body of work as a rookie QB.

Please_Evolve
03-12-2007, 02:24 PM
vanderbilt is not a "decent" team. they're TERRIBLE. and they've been so for 30 years.



yep that's why i said at best. or looking back i i meant to have AT instead of a best....stupid fingers not being able to move faster then my brain.

gtexan02
03-12-2007, 02:27 PM
Ok let me add another category: QB Smarts

Pocket presence is what Carr doesnt' have
QB Smarts is what Leinart excels at

Please_Evolve
03-12-2007, 02:35 PM
Pocket presence is how a QB operates within the pocket post-snap.

And I still don't think Cutler played better competition. He may have faced better defenses overall, but I don't think he played some of the quality of teams that VY and Leinart faced over their careers.

As far as VY...He did get lucky in some games...

Still doesn't take away from his total body of work as a rookie QB.

I defined mine as a part of that. Most of Vince's pocket presence was a one read system at UT. Meaning one target and then run with the ball. Is it flashy...not really...but effective enough for my 'horns to win games and a title. YES. Aside from his win total his body of work isn't that pretty. The only way he wasa pro bowler is due to injury and some Qbs stepping down.

Sorry much as i hate to say it...the SEC is the toughest and best conference right now. I am really hoping the BIG 12 picks it up more next year.

Did Vandy have the big games like UT and USC...no but playing in the juggernaut SEC on a bad team to me is proof as it is.

On Edit: How did i know someone would somehow take a non Carr thread and bring his name up. Thanks.

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 02:37 PM
cutler faced harder teams in his junior and senior season than leinart and young in both of their careers combined. especially when you look at the talent differential.

real
03-12-2007, 02:44 PM
I defined mine as a part of that. Most of Vince's pocket presence was a one read system at UT. Meaning one target and then run with the ball. Is it flashy...not really...but effective enough for my 'horns to win games and a title. YES. Aside from his win total his body of work isn't that pretty. The only way he wasa pro bowler is due to injury and some Qbs stepping down.

Sorry much as i hate to say it...the SEC is the toughest and best conference right now. I am really hoping the BIG 12 picks it up more next year.

Did Vandy have the big games like UT and USC...no but playing in the juggernaut SEC on a bad team to me is proof as it is.

On Edit: How did i know someone would somehow take a non Carr thread and bring his name up. Thanks.

We can just agree to disagree. No biggie. :victory:

Please_Evolve
03-12-2007, 03:10 PM
We can just agree to disagree. No biggie. :victory:


*shrugs* i'm not trying to change your mind. You seemed to want to know why i had put some of the things the way i thought them and i figured you deserved an explanation for my thoughts.

real
03-12-2007, 03:15 PM
*shrugs* i'm not trying to change your mind.

I know.

Normally I'm in the mood to debate, but not so much today.

I still don't agree, but I just don't feel like going into it...But oh well...whaterver...:victory:

kastofsna
03-12-2007, 03:21 PM
you like to debate? i got the feeling you just say "if you disagree, you're wrong, period" then fail to provide any backing evidence to your point. but...agree to disagree!

Big Ben Wallets
03-12-2007, 07:52 PM
vince young doesn't have that strong of an arm, certainly not stronger than cutler's.

Arm Strength: cutler, quinn, young, leinart

Accuracy: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Mobility: young, cutler, quinn, leinart

Pocket Presence: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Leadership Ability: cutler, young, leinart, quinn (all very good though)

Overall: leinart, quinn, cutler, young

Good post. Very accurate. Cutler has the strongest arm. Young as the best mobility. Quinn is the most prepared. Leinart is the most accurate. Cutler has the best upside.

swtbound07
03-13-2007, 04:35 AM
http://kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/2007/03/better-know-draft-pick-brady-quinn.html


inappropriate, but hilarious

swtbound07
03-13-2007, 05:17 PM
bump