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utshawn
10-20-2004, 09:29 PM
Any info on who is going to start?

Last I heard was Davis had a deep thigh bruise but haven't found any other info. I think Wells has performed pretty dang good and the Texans don't really lose anything when he is in.

TIA,

Just a fan of the game

TexansTrueFan
10-20-2004, 09:33 PM
Well i'm sure Davis will start,,,,, this bye week is perfect to get him and EVERYBODY else healthy. Davis is still a good back he just never got completely healthy after the kansas city game ! If we used him while he still wasnt a 100% i'm sure we'll use him against the Jags when he is !! He'll get the start !

Fiddy
10-20-2004, 09:34 PM
Davis is still a good back he just never got completely healthy after the kansas city game !No running back in this league is 100% healthy so Davis needs to learn how to play with all those nagging injuries...

texan279
10-20-2004, 09:41 PM
Or we could start Wells until he screws up royally and then put Davis in.

TexansTrueFan
10-20-2004, 09:42 PM
come on man this guy is only making a couple million a year give the guy a break !!! Well let him get 100% healthy and see what he can do or if he just dont have it anymore,,,not like we have a choice anyways this is or bye week so he'll and the rest of the team will get healthy !

texan279
10-20-2004, 09:42 PM
Ummmm...who's making a couple of million a year? Not Davis.

aj.
10-20-2004, 10:07 PM
He's on schedule to make about 1.2 in three years.

4th rounder, remember?

Jwwillis
10-20-2004, 10:14 PM
Its good the have the debth so that either would be ok. I think the Texans need both RB's healthy. Wells and Davis offer contrasting styles that can keep a defense off balance. I really thought Hollings was going to make an impact this year but he also had nagging injuries. Qhen Davis is on he is the Texans best option. If Carr can learn to quit depending on him with the dump off this offense could do serious damage. Hopefully the last few games has tought Carr that he can take chances down field even thought DD is open on the 5 yrd dump off.

DominatorDavis
10-20-2004, 10:54 PM
Davis is the better back. I think that after his fumbles early in the season and then being dinged up - his confidence is rattled. Wells is a little slow and does too much dancing in the hole. It is a bit aggravating. I think that both right now are not setting the world on fire and that the coaching staff would like to have one of the two (if not both) play better. Make it easier on Carr and Co. to open up the play-action and the mid/long-ranged passing game.

We will take a high running back in next years draft to remedy the run game.

Any word on Tony Hollings?

texan279
10-20-2004, 11:12 PM
You say Davis is the better back? Davis has 233 yards on 80 carries for an average of 2.9 yards per carry with 3 TD's and 4 fumbles. Wells has 218 yards on 59 carries for an average of 3.7 yards per carry with 2 TD's and 1 fumble. IMO we should leave Wells in there until he royally screws up. Seems like Davis is either having problems with injuries or putting the ball on the ground. I am beginning to wonder if he was a one hit wonder.

texan279
10-21-2004, 01:06 AM
Ok, I know I will catch hell for this post, but it's just my opinion. IMO I think we should start Wells for awhile. Davis has 233 yards on 80 carries for an average of 2.9 yards per carry with 3 TD's and 4 fumbles. Wells has 218 yards on 59 carries for an average of 3.7 yards per carry with 2 TD's and 1 fumble. Also, when did our passing game really open up? After Davis was injured. IMO we should leave Wells in there until he royally screws up. Seems like Davis is either having problems with injuries or putting the ball on the ground, it seems like there is always something with him. I am beginning to wonder if he was a one hit wonder. And no, I am not a Davis hater, he is a member of this team just like the other 52 men and he contributes when he is healthy, I am just thinking about what is best for our team. Think about what our team has done since Davis was injured. Just wondering what you guys thoughts on this are.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
10-21-2004, 01:49 AM
You're kidding yourself if you think Wells is a better back than Davis, and even I don't think Davis has what it takes to be a workhorse.

texan279
10-21-2004, 01:58 AM
I never said Wells was a better back. I am just saying keep Wells in until he screws up royally. Who is putting up a better performance so far this season?

Week 1 vs. Chargers
Davis 21 rushes 87 yards 4.1 average 2 TD 2 fumbles

Week 2 vs. Lions
Davis 25 rushes 78 yards 3.1 average 0 TD 2 fumbles

Week 3 vs. Kansas City
Davis 10 rushes 12 yards 1.2 average
Wells 10 rushes 37 yards 3.7 average

Week 4 vs. Raiders
Wells 26 rushes 105 yards 4.0 average 1 TD

Week 5 vs. Vikings
Davis 14 rushes 31 yards 2.2 average 1 TD

Week 6 vs. Titans
Wells 22 rushes 73 yards 3.3 average 1 TD

wags
10-21-2004, 09:22 AM
We will take a high running back in next years draft to remedy the run game.


Won't he then fail a drug test and be suspended? :thankyou:

Tayton
10-21-2004, 09:22 AM
Far too many variables to look at stats over 2 or three games and call Wells the better back. To me Wells will never be a starting caliber back in the NFL. The run blocking has come together over the last few games and have made holes that I could have run through. Wells still does not break near as many tackles as Davis. Don't know if it is because of the fumbles or the nagging injuries but Davis is not in very good form right now. If its the injuries then I am very concerned that he is just not very durable. He's missed alot of time over the last few years. If its the fumbles, then I think he will get over it and have a break out game soon.

Vinny
10-21-2004, 12:51 PM
I'm not calling Wells Stephen Davis, but it took Davis 3-4 years to develop into a top NFL back and they are really the same kind of runner (same body type). To say Wells won't develop further is selling him a bit short. Personally, I am not sure Wells will develop any further but I'm not willing to say he won't. All I know is right now we have 3 backs and none of them have stepped up and clearly taken the starting job. I'm sure this will play itself out as the year unfolds. You never know, Hollings may get over his inuries and snag the job. Davis may overcome his problems. We'll see.

Stephen Davis first 6 years

Year Team G GS Att Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ FD
1996 Washington Redskins 12 0 23 139 6.0 39 2 1 7
1997 Washington Redskins 14 6 141 567 4.0 18 3 0 31
1998 Washington Redskins 16 12 34 109 3.2 12 0 0 6
1999 Washington Redskins 14 14 290 1405 4.8 76 17 7 84
2000 Washington Redskins 15 15 332 1318 4.0 50 11 5 71
2001 Washington Redskins 16 16 356 1432 4.0 32 5 8 74

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1440

TexansTrueFan
10-21-2004, 02:33 PM
He's on schedule to make about 1.2 in three years.

4th rounder, remember?


OK OK has noone here ever heard of sarcasim ?????? We talk about Davis or Wells and you just wanna talk about how much he makes ,,,i was just simply pointing out that he makes way mare than most people do with an easier job !

keyfro
10-21-2004, 02:39 PM
i'm sorry to all the davis fans out there but Wells right now is the better back...the stats that texan279 prove it...davis to me was a one hit wonder...he had a really good rookie year but that's gonna be it...there are plenty of backs in the nfl that were the same way...while wells is not a long term answer either he is the answer for this season...we need to draft a runningback on the first day of the draft and hope for the best...but right now all signs point to us not having a franchise back

Vinny
10-21-2004, 02:50 PM
OK OK has noone here ever heard of sarcasim ?????? We talk about Davis or Wells and you just wanna talk about how much he makes ,,,i was just simply pointing out that he makes way mare than most people do with an easier job !
He was just correcting something that was not factual, and Dom doesn't make all that much money. Easier job? If you think being an NFL running back is so easy then how come we all don't do it?

Mike Malone
10-21-2004, 02:56 PM
I believe Jonathan Davis is the better choice in this game against this opponent. Although Davis is faster, he fumbles. The Texans must keep the Colts offense off of the field. A hard runner like Jonathan Wells is what is needed here. In addition, this will allow Davis one more week to heal and practice holding onto the football.

Tayton
10-21-2004, 03:42 PM
I find it interesting that fans are willing to take the ball from Davis after a few bad games and give it to Wells who has had a few bad years. That being said I'll let the coaches make the decisions and complain if they screw them up.

Blake
10-21-2004, 03:53 PM
I find it interesting that fans are willing to take the ball from Davis after a few bad games and give it to Wells who has had a few bad years. That being said I'll let the coaches make the decisions and complain if they screw them up.

This isnt about whos had better years. Its about who is getting the job done. The NFL has no place for loyalty. You bring your A game and fight for the position. Do you not agree?

Wells deserves a start. Davis will have to show that he is the better back if he wants his position back. And trust me, if Wells starts, Davis will still get some carries.

Nawzer
10-21-2004, 03:56 PM
If Domanick can't produce with or without his injuries there is no reason to start him. Wells had done a good job and he's been solid for us. Until Domanick is fully healthy he can back up Wells.

El Tejano
10-21-2004, 04:28 PM
I would love to see us do a split back formation.

Keldar
10-21-2004, 05:38 PM
Davis is > Hollings;
Hollings is > Wells

Wells' production so far has little to do with his talent. He still gets tackled when touched.

To me it's all about Davis'/Hollings' health, the O-line's performance on that given day, and then we can talk ability.

texan279
10-21-2004, 05:47 PM
Far too many variables to look at stats over 2 or three games and call Wells the better back. To me Wells will never be a starting caliber back in the NFL. The run blocking has come together over the last few games and have made holes that I could have run through. Wells still does not break near as many tackles as Davis. Don't know if it is because of the fumbles or the nagging injuries but Davis is not in very good form right now. If its the injuries then I am very concerned that he is just not very durable. He's missed alot of time over the last few years. If its the fumbles, then I think he will get over it and have a break out game soon.

Davis' longest run of the year is 10 yards, so he' not breaking that many tackles. Davis has fumbled 4 times in 4 games while Wells fumbled once in 3 games. Wells average yard per carry is 3.7 while Davis' average is 2.9. Davis has 233 yards on 80 carries while Wells has 218 yards on 59 carries. If you look at the top rushers in the NFL DAvis is 16th and Wells is right behind him at 17th, with 21 less carries. I am not saying that Wells is a better back, I am saying he is getting the job done right now.

texan279
10-21-2004, 05:50 PM
Wells' production so far has little to do with his talent. He still gets tackled when touched

Are you saying he has no talent? Are you saying that anyone can play RB for our team and put up Well's like numbers? Look what he did against the Raiders D line. If Wells gets taclked when touched, I guess Davis will go down if you just look at him because Wells is averaging almost 1 yard more a carry than Davis.

Panther5407
10-21-2004, 08:05 PM
I still say that you make Davis fight for the starting job, thats what worked last year. The competition that he faced ended up driving him and I think you put that as part of the gameplan. Kinda tell him that no one is a for sure starter and if you arn't producing then you arn't playing. He is ok by me, but I've never been sold on Davis. My theory is anyone can have a great year, a great back will be good day in and day out for years to come.

Keldar
10-21-2004, 08:21 PM
Are you saying he has no talent? Are you saying that anyone can play RB for our team and put up Well's like numbers?

If the line opens holes, anyone can run through them. If the line contains to the inside, anyone can run around the end. What shows me talent is what you do when people are puttin' hats on you, what you do in the open field, and such. So yes, I would say that any journeyman RB in the league would get Well's like numbers in the same play executions that have occurred for Well's.


If Wells gets taclked when touched, I guess Davis will go down if you just look at him because Wells is averaging almost 1 yard more a carry than Davis.

Again, I think that this is not because of Wells' talent, but because the O-line had a good day and Davis would have had even more success under the exact same plays and circumstances. This is qualified by saying Davis must not fumble in these circumstances.

chuckm
10-21-2004, 08:47 PM
I'm not sure which is the better back but I know that lately I'm holding my breath when DD runs (waiting on a fumble) and I'm not when Wells runs ....

texan279
10-21-2004, 08:55 PM
If the line opens holes, anyone can run through them. If the line contains to the inside, anyone can run around the end. What shows me talent is what you do when people are puttin' hats on you, what you do in the open field, and such. So yes, I would say that any journeyman RB in the league would get Well's like numbers in the same play executions that have occurred for Well's.

Well apparently Davis has let you down on both of those. When defenders put a hat on him he puts the ball on the ground and he has done nothing in the open field because his longest run this season is 10 yards.

Keldar
10-21-2004, 09:14 PM
Well apparently Davis has let you down on both of those. When defenders put a hat on him he puts the ball on the ground and he has done nothing in the open field because his longest run this season is 10 yards.

You know, you have a point. I may be living in last year when it comes to Davis' abilities.

That being said, I still think Davis is a better back than Wells. I look at Wells and see a dude that is a 230+ pound monster who runs with the tenacity of a 115 pound horse jockey.

DominatorDavis
10-22-2004, 09:39 AM
If Wells is better then Dominick then why hasn't the coaching staff noticed? Why isn't Dominick 2nd on the depth chart and Wells 1st?

I *can* admit this. In games 2, 3, and 4 - I was biting my nails when Dominick carried the ball worried about fumbles. But it is a phase. It is not as though it cant be fixed. And it will either be fixed or he'll be on the bench with Wells getting the lions share of the carries.

Having said that, you'll have a difficult time convincing me that Wells is a better back by stating that Dominick only has a 10 yard run this year. On the whole Davis is a better receiver, more explosive, is able to get the last few tough yards at the end of a run, and is more versatile then Wells is. There are times where I see Wells let up - go soft into a hole and tip toe through traffic rather then just grit it out, take the hit, and get the tough extra yards.

It is disenchanting at best.

One thing for sure is AJ is getting more passes to him with Wells in there and it has forced Carr to cut back on the number of check downs in the flat. With Wells in there - it has enabled our down field passing game to come to life. That has been an advantage that I have seen.

Anyhoo, we'll see what happens against Jacksonville with Dominick healthy.

thegr8fan
10-22-2004, 09:47 AM
first let me say that before this year I didn't think Wells could run his way through a pee-wee league football teams D-line without getting tackled, and falling BACKWARDS doing so. I think this year he has moved up to Jr High school D-line ability now, but he will still fall backwards while getting tackled. Davis always FALLS FORWARDS.

And this debate about who is the starter, Davis or Wells is actually semi-insane. IF Davis isn't ready to start then they will bring in HOLLINGS. If Davis loses the starting job it will be to HOLLINGS. If BOTH Davis AND Hollings are injured and can't play then Wells will be the starter. But that will be a rarity.

I am more than glad that Wells has improved to the point where I am thinking I MIGHT have been wrong and he can actually play and produce in the NFL. But he still doesn't have the 'field vision' to hit the holes created by the line. I honestly can't say he would even be considered a 'power runner' due to his inability to punch it through for a TD on a short yardage to the endzone situation.

Glad he is there and improving but I don't think Hollings OR Davis are very concerned about losing thier jobs to Wells, IMHO.

Blake
10-22-2004, 09:50 AM
If Wells is better then Dominick then why hasn't the coaching staff noticed? Why isn't Dominick 2nd on the depth chart and Wells 1st?


I wonder why the pats didnt have Brady as 1st string when Bledsoe was with them? Didnt the coaching staff get a good look at them at practice?

Who knows why they are still starting. The fact is that Brady didnt turn the ball over, and made good plays.

Same with Wells over Domanick right now.

TheOgre
10-22-2004, 10:50 AM
I wonder why the pats didnt have Brady as 1st string when Bledsoe was with them? Didnt the coaching staff get a good look at them at practice?
I bet Bledsoe threw a pretty ball in practice. He seems like one of those guys that needs the immoveable o-line and he would be okay.

infantrycak
10-22-2004, 12:17 PM
I wonder why the pats didnt have Brady as 1st string when Bledsoe was with them? Didnt the coaching staff get a good look at them at practice?

Bledsoe was coming off a 4000 yd year and Brady was a rookie. Brady would have had to be phenominally better in practice to unseat Bledsoe at that point.

Blake
10-22-2004, 12:25 PM
Bledsoe was coming off a 4000 yd year and Brady was a rookie. Brady would have had to be phenominally better in practice to unseat Bledsoe at that point.

Actually it was his second year in the league. This is his 5th year in the NFL.

My point is that Brady came into the game and the pats never looked back.
What would have happened if the Pats put Bledsoe back in the pocket?


But this isnt about Brady and Beldsoe. This is about Davis doing horrible this year, and Wells doing good.

Vinny
10-22-2004, 12:35 PM
first let me say that before this year I didn't think Wells could run his way through a pee-wee league football teams D-line without getting tackled, and falling BACKWARDS doing so. I think this year he has moved up to Jr High school D-line ability now, but he will still fall backwards while getting tackled. Davis always FALLS FORWARDS.

And this debate about who is the starter, Davis or Wells is actually semi-insane. IF Davis isn't ready to start then they will bring in HOLLINGS. If Davis loses the starting job it will be to HOLLINGS. If BOTH Davis AND Hollings are injured and can't play then Wells will be the starter. But that will be a rarity.

I am more than glad that Wells has improved to the point where I am thinking I MIGHT have been wrong and he can actually play and produce in the NFL. But he still doesn't have the 'field vision' to hit the holes created by the line. I honestly can't say he would even be considered a 'power runner' due to his inability to punch it through for a TD on a short yardage to the endzone situation.

Glad he is there and improving but I don't think Hollings OR Davis are very concerned about losing thier jobs to Wells, IMHO.
Wells does have a maddening habit of turning his back and backing into the line. I guess it's his semi-spin move. I feel a bit like you when it comes to Hollings. He is the real X factor here and it looks like we are bringing him along really slowly and taking no chances. I think that Davis is clearly the best back on our roster if you look at all the games and the entirety of their production.

All I know is we have 3 RB's and no player that is clearly head and shoulders above his reserve. We saw a few exciting glimpses of Hollings, Davis has been good when healthy, and Wells is finally awake. I'm not counting any of these guys out. In a league where Rueben Droughns and Priest Holmes can make it big after 3-4 years on the bench, I will be patient with all our young backs.

HJam72
10-22-2004, 01:07 PM
I really suspect that if DD keeps starting, we will be crushed this year and that he will be back next year, only to get hurt half-way through the season. We need to go with the guy who's playing better right now. DD hasn't just had a few bad games. He's had 6 of them, because we've played 6 games in which he has done nothing for this team. He has averaged below 3 yds. per carry and fumbled way too much when in there. The rest of the time, Wells has run for a higher avg (and held on to the ball), whille DD stayed on the sideline. What DD deserves right now is a chance to get a few carries in every game. We can't just forget about him, but starting him and forgetting Wells right now is just wrong. It's just dumb to continue on and let a guy blow as many or more games than he basically won for us last year, because he probably will if he keeps getting spoon fed the ball.

I don't even know that we need a new RB, because, between these 3 guys, somebody will usually be getting it done, at least well enough. Right now, Wells should start.

On the last play of the last game, Wells breaks one for a first down and, knowing that his team just won the game, he slides to a stop to avoid any possibility of fumbling. People, one more 20 yard run or so, even if it had been that one and he just kept going for a while, and a lot of this, "When is DD coming back?" kind of stuff wouldn't even be asked right now. Wells is getting the job done. Some of us are looking at his stats and saying, "Yeah, he's done the job, but he still sucks." Last year is over. It's way over. The only thing feeding this belief that Wells hasn't improved is the coaches putting DD back in there and stopping Wells from proving you wrong. It's almost like you guys are saying, "Yeah, he hit the ball 440 ft. and that's a homerun in any park, but I still don't like that swing. Yeah, that's an ugly swing. Oh, and make sure we limit his at bats, because I don't want to see that swing anymore."

Hervoyel
10-22-2004, 01:16 PM
Something that I'm wondering about here and possibly some of the brighter football minds (I do not count myself among you) might be able to answer.

IF the Denver Broncos can put just about anyone behind their line and crank out a respectable running game as they've shown for literally years now and IF the Texans are in the process of adopting the same run blocking scheme then it seems to me that the back who adjusts the fastest to this blocking scheme is going to have an advantage. Now the Texans aren't executing this anywhere near the level that the Broncos do right now but they are in the process of getting their gel on. I can't help but think that Wells getting more carries and DD/Hollings out hurt is going to close the "talent" gap there. I suspect that if Wells gets comfortable running behind this line as the zone blocking scheme comes together then he'll look "pretty good" (relative to Jonathan Wells previous production) and stay in the mix for the starting position whether he really does deserve it or not.

If the zone blocking scheme can make an ordinary back into a performer then can it make Wells our starter? Is that possible?

infantrycak
10-22-2004, 01:43 PM
Actually it was his second year in the league. This is his 5th year in the NFL.

I was refering to the primary time period that Brady sat instead of being recognized as better from practice than Bledsoe which in my mind was Brady's rookie year. Bledsoe only lasted 1.5 games into Brady's second year and had not performed nearly as well the year before as the year before Brady was drafted.

This is about Davis doing horrible this year, and Wells doing good.

Wells has done much better than ever before, but IMO it is a vast overstatement to say DD has done horribly this year. Let's see how DD does after the buy week (including looking at the OL performance) before we go swaying to and fro upon the winds of last week's performance. Remember last year--we win when Banks is in the game, maybe we should bench Carr for a while and let him grow.

Mistril48
10-22-2004, 01:55 PM
All I know is we have 3 RB's and no player that is clearly head and shoulders above his reserve. We saw a few exciting glimpses of Hollings, Davis has been good when healthy, and Wells is finally awake. I'm not counting any of these guys out. In a league where Rueben Droughns and Priest Holmes can make it big after 3-4 years on the bench, I will be patient with all our young backs.I agree with these comments, but would add a couple of thoughts.

1) The reason we know that Denver could keep plugging RBs into their system is because their RBs kept getting injured and needed to be replaced over the years (note - I don't mean they were injury prone, but rather that the Emmitt Smiths of the world are few and far between. Typically, RBs have very sort careers compared to other positions, IMO) IT IS NOT A BAD THING TO HAVE THREE PRODUCTIVE RBs.

2) I believe that Davis and Wells do an excellent job of receiving out of the backfield and a good job of blocking on blitz pickup. I think Hollings is behind those two in these areas. This is to be expected IMO, because Hollings has had so little time at the RB position (only six games in college). The talent that Hollings has (speed) can't be taught and I anticipate that he will continue to develop the unsung RB skills (blocking and receiving) and will blosoom in the future.

3) IMO Davis has great vision and good quickness in the hole, as well as the unsung RB skills (blocking and receiving). He only lacks top end speed, but no doubt that is why he was available so late in the draft. His fumbling this year is unacceptable, but he hasn't had a big problem with fumbling throughout his career. I would not be surprised to see him string together a number of big games throughout the rest of the year.

GI-Dawgs
10-22-2004, 02:16 PM
With the new zone blocking scheme being implemented this year, the running game has been a diappointment. But... sometimes you take a step backward to go 2 forward and this may be what we are seeing.
I think Davis is the best back. Wells is okay, but nothing special. Hollings has ton of talent, but very little experience. I still feel Davis is the best option, if he is healthy. His inablility to stay healthy is starting to be a concern.

This team is not going to master zone blocking in a handful of games. Denver has proved this system can make a average back look very good.
Be patient!

texan279
10-22-2004, 08:59 PM
Wells has done much better than ever before, but IMO it is a vast overstatement to say DD has done horribly this year.

Davis is averaging 2.9 yards a carry, which is 41st in the NFL. Add that to his four fumbles. If that's not horrible, I would hate to see horrible. Even Eddie George is averaging 3.4 yards a carry.

brickmantexanfan
10-22-2004, 09:13 PM
Ok, I know I will catch hell for this post, but it's just my opinion. IMO I think we should start Wells for awhile. Davis has 233 yards on 80 carries for an average of 2.9 yards per carry with 3 TD's and 4 fumbles. Wells has 218 yards on 59 carries for an average of 3.7 yards per carry with 2 TD's and 1 fumble. Also, when did our passing game really open up? After Davis was injured. IMO we should leave Wells in there until he royally screws up. Seems like Davis is either having problems with injuries or putting the ball on the ground, it seems like there is always something with him. I am beginning to wonder if he was a one hit wonder. And no, I am not a Davis hater, he is a member of this team just like the other 52 men and he contributes when he is healthy, I am just thinking about what is best for our team. Think about what our team has done since Davis was injured. Just wondering what you guys thoughts on this are.


If we are not going to go with Davis until wells screws up then that spells disaster.Why not go (runningback by commitee) that way we can screw it all up and wind wondering what if.
We should start Davis and see if he is working ,I believe we have too many people watching Johnson to worry about which back we are going to start,but we still need a running game and no matter who we start at back there will be a man checking it out.I believe that Davis can beat that man. :tiptoe:

texan279
10-22-2004, 09:20 PM
If we are not going to go with Davis until wells screws up then that spells disaster.Why not go (runningback by commitee) that way we can screw it all up and wind wondering what if.

How does it spell disaster? Compare their stats, compare our teams performance when Wells plays vs. Davis, compare our turnover ratio when Wells plays vs. Davis.

Game 1 vs. San Diego, Davis starts, 4 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 2 vs. Detroit, Davis starts, 3 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 3 vs. Kansas City, davis starts, plays first half, 1 turnover first half, Houston losing 7 to 6. Wells comes in second half, no turnovers, Houston wins 24-21.
Game 4 vs. Oakland, Wells starts, plays entire game, 1 turnover the entire game, Houston wins 30-17.
Game 5 vs. Minnesota, Davis starts, plays entire game, no turnovers, Texans lose.
Game 6 vs. Titans, Davis starts, plays 1st half, 2 turnovers 1st half, Houston up 13-10 halftime. Wells plays second half, no turnovers second half, Texans win.

Ragin Redneck
10-22-2004, 10:37 PM
Noob here.......but been watching this thread. And I must say that it's interesting to see that some TEXAN loyals are ready to jump wagon on a stud RB that can make huge plays, for a between the tackles runner that will get you short yardage with no big play ability what so ever. Have ya's asked why J Wells is getting better yardage? Could it be the fact that the opponents defenses study the game films and prepare for D Davis and his style of running, and then Wells comes in and they are unprepared. You let them study Wells some and he will not produce like he has recently. D Davis didn't earn the starting spot for his looks. The coaches see the difference, why else did they start Davis last week when he was less than 100%? Give Davis this week of rest and time to heal, and you will see why he's the #1 RB. His fumbles are a prob, but it's only due to the fact that he fights for evey yard he can get, while Wells just gets tackled at the spot of contact.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

TexansTrueFan
10-22-2004, 10:40 PM
How does it spell disaster? Compare their stats, compare our teams performance when Wells plays vs. Davis, compare our turnover ratio when Wells plays vs. Davis.

Game 1 vs. San Diego, Davis starts, 4 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 2 vs. Detroit, Davis starts, 3 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 3 vs. Kansas City, davis starts, plays first half, 1 turnover first half, Houston losing 7 to 6. Wells comes in second half, no turnovers, Houston wins 24-21.
Game 4 vs. Oakland, Wells starts, plays entire game, 1 turnover the entire game, Houston wins 30-17.
Game 5 vs. Minnesota, Davis starts, plays entire game, no turnovers, Texans lose.
Game 6 vs. Titans, Davis starts, plays 1st half, 2 turnovers 1st half, Houston up 13-10 halftime. Wells plays second half, no turnovers second half, Texans win.


Ok if i may comment on the KC game it was wells who fumbled the ball and turned it over not davis !!!! Plus davis has had a sprang ankle that has not quite healed since the KC game ! He will still be the starter and will improve from his early performance !

brickmantexanfan
10-22-2004, 10:43 PM
How does it spell disaster? Compare their stats, compare our teams performance when Wells plays vs. Davis, compare our turnover ratio when Wells plays vs. Davis.

Game 1 vs. San Diego, Davis starts, 4 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 2 vs. Detroit, Davis starts, 3 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 3 vs. Kansas City, davis starts, plays first half, 1 turnover first half, Houston losing 7 to 6. Wells comes in second half, no turnovers, Houston wins 24-21.
Game 4 vs. Oakland, Wells starts, plays entire game, 1 turnover the entire game, Houston wins 30-17.
Game 5 vs. Minnesota, Davis starts, plays entire game, no turnovers, Texans lose.
Game 6 vs. Titans, Davis starts, plays 1st half, 2 turnovers 1st half, Houston up 13-10 halftime. Wells plays second half, no turnovers second half, Texans win.


I will give you the turnovers in the first 2 games as the breakers for Houstons loss,but in Game 6 DD did not turn over the ball a win,and no one turned over the ball in game 5 a loss,and then again in week 3 DD did not turn over the ball a win(rushing game 5?)Carr 10 yds less than DD,week6 Wells prevailed nicely.
My point is don't associate DD as the prince of all the turnovers,and call that the reson for starting Wells,Wells is wonderful,But I haven't been convinced that last years Rookie of the year has shown us what he has yet. :whistle:

Hervoyel
10-22-2004, 10:56 PM
His fumbling this year is unacceptable, but he hasn't had a big problem with fumbling throughout his career. I would not be surprised to see him string together a number of big games throughout the rest of the year.


I believed this as well but a quick glance at his senior year (available at this Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/davis_domanick) down under the "2002" heading) reveals that DD put the rock on the ground on a regular basis his senior year. That season he wasn't (I believe, could be mistaken) even a full time starter.

So which is it? Is he the fumble factory from 2002 and early this season or is he the fairly reliable talented back running back we saw last year? I just don't know.

texan279
10-22-2004, 11:03 PM
Noob here.......but been watching this thread. And I must say that it's interesting to see that some TEXAN loyals are ready to jump wagon on a stud RB that can make huge plays, for a between the tackles runner that will get you short yardage with no big play ability what so ever.

I am a loyal fan, been here since day 1, never posted a fire anyone thread, I am just saying put the man in who is performing better.

TexansTrueFan
10-22-2004, 11:03 PM
i think its still to early in his career to know,,,,but i saw a lot of promise out of him last season and thats not just something you can fake ! He still has the ability and talent to be a good back lets just see if he can learn to use it !

texan279
10-22-2004, 11:08 PM
His fumbles are a prob, but it's only due to the fact that he fights for evey yard he can get, while Wells just gets tackled at the spot of contact.

If this is true, why is Davis averaging 2.9 yards a carry and Wells is averaging 3.7 yards a carry and Davis' longest run of the season is 10 yards. If that's fighting for yards I would hate to see him on a bad day.

texan279
10-22-2004, 11:10 PM
Ok if i may comment on the KC game it was wells who fumbled the ball and turned it over not davis !!!!

Um no, David Carr and Billy Miller had a fumble each in that game, Wells did not fumble once in that game.

texan279
10-22-2004, 11:14 PM
I will give you the turnovers in the first 2 games as the breakers for Houstons loss,but in Game 6 DD did not turn over the ball a win,and no one turned over the ball in game 5 a loss,and then again in week 3 DD did not turn over the ball a win(rushing game 5?)Carr 10 yds less than DD,week6 Wells prevailed nicely.

I am not just talking about turnovers here, but overall performance also. Davis played the entire game against Minnesota and we lost the game. And yes we won the game in week 3, but Wells came in in the second half and rushed for 37 yards on 10 carries, after Davis had a WHOPPING 12 yards on 10 carries.

My point is don't associate DD as the prince of all the turnovers,and call that the reson for starting Wells,Wells is wonderful,But I haven't been convinced that last years Rookie of the year has shown us what he has yet.

If he hasn't shown us what he has yet, what is he waiting for?

brickmantexanfan
10-22-2004, 11:22 PM
I am not just talking about turnovers here, but overall performance also. Davis played the entire game against Minnesota and we lost the game. And yes we won the game in week 3, but Wells came in in the second half and rushed for 37 yards on 10 carries, after Davis had a WHOPPING 12 yards on 10 carries.



If he hasn't shown us what he has yet, what is he waiting for?


I think Probably the colts :popcorn:

Grid
10-23-2004, 02:01 AM
You dont just give up on talent.

Davis was Rookie of the Year.. and he has shown the coaches that he is humble, a team player, and a hard worker.. all those things together means you dont give up on him cause he has had a rough start.

He may not get back into his groove until late in the season.. ya never know.. hell he might not get into his groove again till NEXT season.. but I dont think we will give up on him quickly. he has SHOWN that he is capable of it, we just have to get him where he needs to be.

And he isnt gonna get it back if we have him ride the pine.. Well i dunno.. he might.. but ya gotta have some faith in the guy.

We have a great passing game.. keep Davis in there.. let him try and work his way out of this slump. If we can get him going, AND our passing game.. we will be doing awesome.

Ragin Redneck
10-23-2004, 05:57 AM
If this is true, why is Davis averaging 2.9 yards a carry and Wells is averaging 3.7 yards a carry and Davis' longest run of the season is 10 yards. If that's fighting for yards I would hate to see him on a bad day.

Whoa......8-tenths or a yard difference! Shoot......WELLS is a STUD! Just imagine what he would get if the defenses studied and prepared for him and not D Davis. I guess GreenBay needs to bench A Green in favor of N Davenport going by your train of thought. And lets see....Tiki would be benched in favor of that awesome Ron Dayne. And I guess D Carr needs to be benched for throwing 5 INT's, and fumbling 6 times.

Like some mentioned, the forgotten factor here is T Hollings who is 2nd in the pecking order, should get the start over Wells if they were to go with someone other than D Davis. But I still think that D Davis is the best of all three!

texan279
10-23-2004, 06:10 AM
All I am saying is play the man who is putting up the numbers and getting the job done.

Tayton
10-23-2004, 08:43 AM
In the first 2 games Davis was in the top 5 in NFL in total yards. If he doesn't fumble (and that's a big if) people would be talking about how special he is. No one on this board would disagree that the fumbles are unacceptable but I really feel that 2.9 vs. 3.7 is an function of the zone blocking scheme working better. Wells is doing nothing special nor doing anything different than he has done his first 2 years. If there isn't a whole he gets nothing, if there is then he gets a couple. If Davis continues to fumble or lets nagging injuries hinder his performance then make a change. Until then I personally think that the offense is better with Davis in the ball game. Just my opinion.

Keldar
10-23-2004, 11:50 AM
In the first 2 games Davis was in the top 5 in NFL in total yards. If he doesn't fumble (and that's a big if) people would be talking about how special he is. No one on this board would disagree that the fumbles are unacceptable but I really feel that 2.9 vs. 3.7 is an function of the zone blocking scheme working better. Wells is doing nothing special nor doing anything different than he has done his first 2 years. If there isn't a whole he gets nothing, if there is then he gets a couple. If Davis continues to fumble or lets nagging injuries hinder his performance then make a change. Until then I personally think that the offense is better with Davis in the ball game. Just my opinion.


Well said, and I could'nt agree more.

If we do have to "make a change", it better be to someone other than Wells. I hope ol' John boy proves me wrong. I would like to see Wells turn into the type of back that his physical presense suggests he should be.

HJam72
10-23-2004, 12:40 PM
Let's just assume that DD keeps starting and continues to play the way he has been this year (including fumbles per carry). At some point in every game, let's just say start of second half, Wells comes in and runs for 3.7 yards per play. How long until some of you guys change your mind and decide to start Wells and just wait for DD to get it back together? Would some of you say to just always start DD over Wells no matter what, until we got somebody that we don't have now (or DD improves again)? Let's just ignore Hollings for this question, because I consider him a real question mark right now. I have no idea what he would or wouldn't do if he was healthy and played an entire game for us.

brickmantexanfan
10-24-2004, 12:08 AM
Let's just assume that DD keeps starting and continues to play the way he has been this year (including fumbles per carry). At some point in every game, let's just say start of second half, Wells comes in and runs for 3.7 yards per play. How long until some of you guys change your mind and decide to start Wells and just wait for DD to get it back together? Would some of you say to just always start DD over Wells no matter what, until we got somebody that we don't have now (or DD improves again)? Let's just ignore Hollings for this question, because I consider him a real question mark right now. I have no idea what he would or wouldn't do if he was healthy and played an entire game for us.


That is all this thread has been about is DD keeps starting and play the same including fumbles,so instead lets just assume that DD comes in and rushes for 125 and no fumbles would that change the minds of the wells backers to come around?{probably not) but he did get Rookie Of The Year last year and that was earned fair and square.So sorry can't assume your dream is better than mine> :soldier:

HJam72
10-25-2004, 01:50 AM
That is all this thread has been about is DD keeps starting and play the same including fumbles,so instead lets just assume that DD comes in and rushes for 125 and no fumbles would that change the minds of the wells backers to come around?{probably not) but he did get Rookie Of The Year last year and that was earned fair and square.So sorry can't assume your dream is better than mine> :soldier:

I'm dealing with reality....not dreams. You can dream about DD rushing for 125 yds. and no fumbles this season, but I have as yet to see that happen. What I have seen is DD fumble 4 times in 2 games and then either stink it up or sit out hurt for the other 4 games. Meanwhile, Wells has shown a descent average and held on to the ball. That's not a dream. It happened this year.

You can hope that DD turns back time, just like we all will, all you want, but I want to know how long you'd keep sticking him back in there if he doesn't. What if we don't even draft another RB? Does DD just keep starting through next year, too, even if he's still sub-par? I don't believe that RB is a position where you get better with experience. It's a position where you get old really fast with experience. Wells isn't going to be any franchise back, but right now he's the best we've got. DD can change that in just a few plays, but he's got to do it and I see no reason to keep feeding him the ball until he chokes on it. Getting your chance and having to start every game, while keeping others on the bench, are not the same thing and we've won 3 out of 4 with Wells playing the majority of the time.

The first game, DD fumbles twice. Game 2: DD doesn't play and we win. That's what I wanted to do. Since then, well, you know how it's gone. It really surprises me that people will ride a sick horse like this. When his ypc started going WAY down after having the first two Double Drop games, I thought we'd all see that he needed to sit out, most of the time, until he proved he was ready to come back. Do we want to win games or just watch our favorite players, whether they stink or not? If Jeff Bagwell hits .067 next year, I say they should sit his butt down. If the crowd wants to see Baggs at that point, they can watch taped games on their VCRs. Actually, you know, I suspect that Baggy would sit his own butt down in that scenario, lol.

I don't know if it's even necessary to say this, but I have no affinity for Wells. If he plays bad, he's out (assuming somebody can play better and is healthy). I feel the same way about DD. Of course, you already know that. If hollings were healthy, I'd be glad to see him get his chance, but he'd probably cough up the ball. I don't care. I just want this team to win as much as they can and I don't want to see DD starting every game, regardless of what he most likely will do, just because he has more long term potential, which may or may not be all used up. I believe DDs going to do what he's going to do, regardless of how much or how little he plays in between now and then. In other words, losing games with him now is not necessary to get him to come out of a slump. He'll come out of it when he comes out of it--if he ever does. If anything the coaches do will wake him up, it's letting him sit on the bench and worry about his job. That might do it right there--possibly.

Personally, if I had to guess right now, I'd say that Davis is done. He wasn't expected to do what he did last year and a lot of RBs have one great year and then fall back to reality. I'm not saying to get rid of him, but I don't really expect him to be a franchise player. He's already proven to be injury prone just like everyone worried about before he even came here. He definitely deserves a job in the NFL, though. Maybe not as a starter. RBBC sounds pretty good, when and if he gets it back together.

Yellow no 5
10-25-2004, 09:51 AM
We need to keep in mind that the texans are using a new blocking scheme, that DD maybe hasn't gotten use to. I don't know I'm not him, but I think DD is more of a threat than Wells.

texan279
10-25-2004, 10:19 AM
We need to keep in mind that the texans are using a new blocking scheme, that DD maybe hasn't gotten use to. I don't know I'm not him, but I think DD is more of a threat than Wells.

If Davis wasn't used to the new blocking scheme, then more than likely none of our RB's would be used to it either. Davis problems are fumbles and trying to play with nagging minor injuries.

trutexan67
10-25-2004, 10:28 AM
I like DD. Last year everybody was on his bandwagon. Now nobody wants him back there. I think he will bounce back.

texan279
10-25-2004, 10:36 AM
I like DD. Last year everybody was on his bandwagon. Now nobody wants him back there. I think he will bounce back.

Although I was impressed by his performance last year, I never "jumped on his bandwagon". I'm not saying that he sucks or we should get rid of him. I just think we should be starting the guy who is getting the job done, and right now that is Wells. I will say this, if Davis' injury and fumbling problems do not stop by the end of the season, I think we should look at drafting a RB in the upcoming draft or signing a free agent RB.

El Tejano
10-25-2004, 02:47 PM
Although I was impressed by his performance last year, I never "jumped on his bandwagon". I'm not saying that he sucks or we should get rid of him. I just think we should be starting the guy who is getting the job done, and right now that is Wells. I will say this, if Davis' injury and fumbling problems do not stop by the end of the season, I think we should look at drafting a RB in the upcoming draft or signing a free agent RB.
Amen to this! I want DD to succeed more than anyone, but right now he is not doing what he did last year. I welcome him to come back to that form anytime like anyone else. The name of the game is move the ball and score more points, and Wells hasn't given any reason to think he hasn't helped with that.

CyberTexan
10-26-2004, 12:28 AM
Theres no question Davis is the better Back he hits the holes quicker and lets not forget hes ALOT better reciever than Wells .

texan279
10-26-2004, 08:47 AM
Theres no question Davis is the better Back he hits the holes quicker and lets not forget hes ALOT better reciever than Wells .

I never said Wells was a better back, my point is you have to play the man who is getting the job done, and right now that is Wells. And let's not forget, Davis has had a habit of coughing up the ball this year.

Wolf
10-26-2004, 09:38 AM
nothing aganst DD, but it sure seems we run a better offense without DD. I don't why or what. Just seems we become one diminsional with DD (run,run, and if we pass it goes to DD). Not sure if it is Carr or what

seriously, I hope both backs succeed, but I don't see any of them putting a fear into a defense. they are both solid grind it out backs but not explosive. (no disrespect)

Grid
10-26-2004, 10:09 AM
it seems to me.. based on interviews and such.. that the coaches have slowly come around to the fact that our passing game is too good to tuck away. Before, we wanted that running game.. that is how our coaches "like" to play.. but now.. I dont think it is quite as important to them as the passing game is. Now, I think we can expect that even with DD out there, we will use him just to take pressure off Carr and keep the defense guessing.. not as our main offensive weapon.

Before, we would throw him out there and run him into the ground... I dont think we would do the same now.

basicly what im trying to say is that if DD goes out now, I doubt he would have any negative influence on our play.. since he wont be overused.

Mike Malone
10-26-2004, 01:31 PM
Are you saying he has no talent? Are you saying that anyone can play RB for our team and put up Well's like numbers? Look what he did against the Raiders D line. If Wells gets taclked when touched, I guess Davis will go down if you just look at him because Wells is averaging almost 1 yard more a carry than Davis.

Sometimes a good back will go down when he's touched. That's smart football. Ask Earl Campbell, William Andrews and Jamal Anderson, all of whom had to retire before their time. All of these backs were tough, punishing backs, but all of those needless hits they subjected themselves to for a yard or two cost them years at the end of their careers.

Low Life
10-26-2004, 03:05 PM
Give DD the ball and put him on a short leash. He already knows he's on a short leash but maybe the Capers can exercise his right to sit the boy down. Bottom line, DD fumbles 1 or can't find a hole within a few possessions then you put in Wells. If Wells can't get it done then you continue the running game with a RB by committee type of attitude. I think that will make one or the other step up. It's not like it's the QB position where Wells or Domanick are in true leadership roles. They both have a lot to prove as the run is obviously our weakness in the offense. "That's about all I got to say about that" - Forrest Gump

Grid
10-26-2004, 03:13 PM
Im still waiting to see Hollings.

TexansTrueFan
10-26-2004, 03:29 PM
How does it spell disaster? Compare their stats, compare our teams performance when Wells plays vs. Davis, compare our turnover ratio when Wells plays vs. Davis.

Game 1 vs. San Diego, Davis starts, 4 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 2 vs. Detroit, Davis starts, 3 turnovers, Texans loss.
Game 3 vs. Kansas City, davis starts, plays first half, 1 turnover first half, Houston losing 7 to 6. Wells comes in second half, no turnovers, Houston wins 24-21.
Game 4 vs. Oakland, Wells starts, plays entire game, 1 turnover the entire game, Houston wins 30-17.
Game 5 vs. Minnesota, Davis starts, plays entire game, no turnovers, Texans lose.
Game 6 vs. Titans, Davis starts, plays 1st half, 2 turnovers 1st half, Houston up 13-10 halftime. Wells plays second half, no turnovers second half, Texans win.


ok i see your point but in game 6 davis had nothing to do with the 2 turnovers,,,it was Carr so i dont think that can be put on davis,,,plus we still had the lead. Give him a break he'll be healthy this week for the jags game get 125 yars and this thread will disappear for ever with yall hoping noone finds it !!! Davis is in a slump he will come out of it and produce well for us !

SESupergenius
10-26-2004, 03:52 PM
Never in my wildest dream would I see a thread equating Wells to Davis, but hey, you can't argue the numbers. Wells is really playing good this year and it was hard for any of us to evaluate a player behind the line of 2002. I personally like the way Wells is used. As a running back, not as a reciever.

Wolf
10-26-2004, 11:40 PM
Never in my wildest dream would I see a thread equating Wells to Davis, but hey, you can't argue the numbers. Wells is really playing good this year and it was hard for any of us to evaluate a player behind the line of 2002. I personally like the way Wells is used. As a running back, not as a reciever.

No joke SES... in all fairness. Wells didn't have the WR's to spread the field when he started like DD has or an OL like they have now

ledzeppelin229
10-27-2004, 12:44 AM
The problem is their is too much focus on the running game when Davis is in. I don't have a doubt in my mind Davis is the better RB, but the offense needs focus around the passing game and our extremely talented and deep group of WRs. Spread out those LBers and back up the Safeties a little and Davis will have a field day.

Also don't forget the zone blocking is steadily improving with experience, so those first two games are hard to compare with the last couple. I think this weekend will be really telling as to how much the line has progressed and which back can really get it done.

phan1
10-28-2004, 02:21 PM
The problem is their is too much focus on the running game when Davis is in. I don't have a doubt in my mind Davis is the better RB, but the offense needs focus around the passing game and our extremely talented and deep group of WRs. Spread out those LBers and back up the Safeties a little and Davis will have a field day.

Also don't forget the zone blocking is steadily improving with experience, so those first two games are hard to compare with the last couple. I think this weekend will be really telling as to how much the line has progressed and which back can really get it done.

I agree that when DD is in there everyone focuses on him, and that's why the running game had been difficult. But also, DD IS THE BETTER BACK. Watch the film! If you watch Wells hit the hole and then DD hit the hole, the difference is like night and day. No one on our team hits the hole quicker and stronger than DD, but the fact is, nothing opens up for him! I contribute that to 1) Oline is not doing very good and 2) we're being way too predictable on offense. Right now, I can tell you the first play we are going to run: Ace formation, run in-between the tackles. We have got to be less predictable and the Oline has got to open up some holes. I think Wells is doing better because the D doesn't consider him to be a great threat. He'll pick up some yards, but he will be contained with a minimal amount of effort. Oline had got to step it up, because I don't believe that its DD's fault! Like I said, look at tape and tell me that DD is not as Wells. You are fooling yourself.

However, I do believe in benching him if he fumbles. We can win with Wells, we can't win if DD fumbles. Unfortunatley, all 3 of our backs have had a tendency to fumble the ball.

infantrycak
10-28-2004, 02:36 PM
2) we're being way too predictable on offense. Right now, I can tell you the first play we are going to run: Ace formation, run in-between the tackles.

Well then you would be right half of the time:

Games with 1st play runs:
San Diego, Detroit, Tennessee

Games with 1st play passes:
KC, Oakland, Minnesota

But I agree with your first point, the main problem with our run game is inconsistancy by the OL.

texan279
10-31-2004, 05:48 PM
Bump :BananaWav Just bumping this post since it seems like some people are starting to agree there is a problem with Davis.

eric138
11-01-2004, 08:06 AM
Game 8 vs. Jaguars, Davis starts, 95 total yards, 2 fumbles, a kick return from Wells, Texans win 20-6

Bigger look at the game:

Wells, Rushing 4 for 2yrds, Receiving 2 for 7 yards, oh and Kick return 1 for 9 yards

DD, Rushing 22 for 56 yrds, Receiving 5 for 39 yards

Shoot, Chad Stanley rushed once for 3 yards more than Wells..

I'm not saying Wells sucks, but he cannot compare to DD.. I think his recent success was due to the opposing defense not expecting him..