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Insideop
03-08-2007, 01:16 AM
OK, what are our options at QB, and what do you think the Texans will do?

The situation now, as I see it, with all of the good QB FA's gone is in one way we are in the drivers seat, with regards to trading Carr, and the other way we are in the hot seat, with regards to not having an established QB, should Carr be traded.

Drivers Seat :drive:

I still think Carr will be traded, and I think his value should be going up. There are still teams looking for a starting QB (like Oak. and Minn.) that may want to get a vet in while a rookie watches and learns. The way I see it the Vikes are in a key position for the Texans. They let Brad Johnson go and I think they are desperate for a veteran QB. I know they were interested in Carr earlier, and then there was a rumor about a trade for Schaub, but I haven't heard anything in awhile. Sure, they could pick Quinn at #7, but then he would probably be "thrown into the fire" pretty soon. I still think they are our best chance for a trade.

Oakland is another interesting situation. Do they stand pat with their QB's and draft Russell, or do they go after Carr or Schaub and then draft Johnson? And, if they do decide to get Russell, would they still get another vet QB to start while Russell learns?

Hot Seat :evilb:

If we do trade Carr, that leaves us with only Sage as a QB with any NFL experience. So, who do we get to start and who do we draft? I still think somehow that Plummer could still be in the mix. Other than that I don't know who is left out there that would be a good fit.

As for the draft, if the Vikes get Carr or Schaub, then I'm not sure they would draft Quinn. They may wait until later rounds to get Stanton, Kolb, Smith, or Edwards. But, if they don't get Carr or Schaub, then I think they are in a bind and would most likely pick Quinn. So, I guess the question becomes, if we trade Carr and the Vikes take Quinn, who would the Texans pick and in what round?

What say you?

DGPowaR
03-08-2007, 01:19 AM
OK, what are our options at QB, and what do you think the Texans will do?

The situation now, as I see it, with all of the good QB FA's gone is in one way we are in the drivers seat, with regards to trading Carr, and the other way we are in the hot seat, with regards to not having an established QB, should Carr be traded.

Drivers Seat :drive:

I still think Carr will be traded, and I think his value should be going up. There are still teams looking for a starting QB (like Oak. and Minn.) that may want to get a vet in while a rookie watches and learns. The way I see it the Vikes are in a key position for the Texans. They let Brad Johnson go and I think they are desperate for a veteran QB. I know they were interested in Carr earlier, and then there was a rumor about a trade for Schaub, but I haven't heard anything in awhile. Sure, they could pick Quinn at #7, but then he would probably be "thrown into the fire" pretty soon. I still think they are our best chance for a trade.

Oakland is another interesting situation. Do they stand pat with their QB's and draft Russell, or do they go after Carr or Schaub and then draft Johnson? And, if they do decide to get Russell, would they still get another vet QB to start while Russell learns?

Hot Seat :evilb:

If we do trade Carr, that leaves us with only Sage as a QB with any NFL experience. So, who do we get to start and who do we draft? I still think somehow that Plummer could still be in the mix. Other than that I don't know who is left out there that would be a good fit.

As for the draft, if the Vikes get Carr or Schaub, then I'm not sure they would draft Quinn. They may wait until later rounds to get Stanton, Kolb, Smith, or Edwards. But, if they don't get Carr or Schaub, then I think they are in a bind and would most likely pick Quinn. So, I guess the question becomes, if we trade Carr and the Vikes take Quinn, who would the Texans pick and in what round?

What say you?

i say, do whats necessary to get CJ OR AP...

cuz although the first isnt a possibility, i would shat my pants if we did...

macaronitoni
03-08-2007, 01:22 AM
Sage Rosenfels will take the first, and most likely the last snap as well in 2007. Kevin Kolb will be the QB Kubiak grooms. Wait and see for yourself.

Brandon420tx
03-08-2007, 01:27 AM
i say, do whats necessary to get CJ OR AP...

cuz although the first isnt a possibility, i would shat my pants if we did...

Soo, Carr, 2nd Round, 3rd Round for Oaks first round and Tommy Kelly (I would love this guy) in order to draft CJ?

Edit: I could probably do this on madden ...

bckey
03-08-2007, 01:35 AM
I still think Kubiak will get Plummer from Tampa Bay. He will have to give up a draft pick but he will get it back when he trades Carr. ESPN reorted tonight that Plummer still hasn't filed retirement papers yet.

Please_Evolve
03-08-2007, 01:36 AM
Minnesota might suprise me but i think they like what they got in Tavaras(sp) Jackson. I thought he played well later in the season. Wasn't he a seond rounder?

Oakland might be a different thing. I honestly have no clue about them. Al Davis is a strange creature. But i thought they had a good draft last year. From Most accounts at least from fans say they like Walter but he needs line help. I don'tthink they'll go Thomas after the Gallery incident. But...Moss is on the block, Porter and Curry are in. What if ol Al suprised us all...Moves Moss for a second rounder and pulls and Atlanta/San Diego Deal ala Mike Vick.

I think the Plummer deal nixed our Offseason QB plans. I'm 50-50 on that. If nothing gets done as the draft approaches it's more likely Carr will start next year i think.

Honestly surveying the offseason Qb's i think Plummer would've been the only successful candidate here.

Insideop
03-08-2007, 08:45 AM
I still think Kubiak will get Plummer from Tampa Bay. He will have to give up a draft pick but he will get it back when he trades Carr. ESPN reorted tonight that Plummer still hasn't filed retirement papers yet.

That's interesting! :hmmm: I thought he filed them awhile ago, and I thought I heard something about the NFL FO looking into when he filed them. Because if he filed them before Denver traded him (the 2nd time) then they still owed him bonus money I think. Not quite sure of the details about this, but it had to do with money (of course) and who had the rights to his contract when he filed his papers. Maybe someone else on the MB can clear this up a bit.

Insideop
03-08-2007, 09:00 AM
Minnesota might suprise me but i think they like what they got in Tavaras(sp) Jackson. I thought he played well later in the season. Wasn't he a seond rounder?

Oakland might be a different thing. I honestly have no clue about them. Al Davis is a strange creature. But i thought they had a good draft last year. From Most accounts at least from fans say they like Walter but he needs line help. I don'tthink they'll go Thomas after the Gallery incident. But...Moss is on the block, Porter and Curry are in. What if ol Al suprised us all...Moves Moss for a second rounder and pulls and Atlanta/San Diego Deal ala Mike Vick.

I think the Plummer deal nixed our Offseason QB plans. I'm 50-50 on that. If nothing gets done as the draft approaches it's more likely Carr will start next year i think.

Honestly surveying the offseason Qb's i think Plummer would've been the only successful candidate here.

I would be surprised if Minn. did nothing and stuck with Jackson. I don't think I've heard any vote of confidence in Jackson at all, and I can't believe they would go into this season with him as their starting QB. If that is the case though, then I think there is no way they pass on Quinn at #7. BTW who is Jackson's backup?

Marcus
03-08-2007, 09:01 AM
I still think Carr will be traded, and I think his value should be going up.
What say you?

You're forgetting about Carr's contract. There might be a GM out there who might want to give Carr a try, but that fat contract of his kills the chances of any trade.

They'll have to either cut him, or keep him. Cutting him is an admission of a horrendous mistake.

Swallow hard.

thunderkyss
03-08-2007, 09:20 AM
I would be surprised if Minn. did nothing and stuck with Jackson. I don't think I've heard any vote of confidence in Jackson at all, and I can't believe they would go into this season with him as their starting QB. If that is the case though, then I think there is no way they pass on Quinn at #7. BTW who is Jackson's backup?

I think Minnesota is fine with Jackson. That doesn't mean they plan to start him. But If they let go of Brad Johnson, I don't think they are desperate. I don't see them being interested in Quinn at all.

It would be silly for them to get veteran, then have Jackson as the backup, and Quinn being groomed. I think they'll try to get Green, or maybe Kitna... wasn't he released from Detroit??

The idea is to get someone who can win, until your guy is ready.

Oakland, after going 2-14, I doubt winning is that important. They'll probably draft a QB, and let Touiasosopa(sp), and Walther get their clocks cleaned till the rook is ready to start. I think they should go with Joe Thomas(as he'll probably help their team the most) or CJ (as he's the most talented player in this draft).

thunderkyss
03-08-2007, 09:21 AM
You're forgetting about Carr's contract. There might be a GM out there who might want to give Carr a try, but that fat contract of his kills the chances of any trade.

They'll have to either cut him, or keep him. Cutting him is an admission of a horrendous mistake.

Swallow hard.

my thoughts on that, from another thread:

The play now, is for Plummer to not retire, and force Tampa to pay him, or cut him. It would be in Tampa's best interest to work a deal out with us for the trade. We need to show that we are satisfied with our QB situation.

The best thing we could have done, would have been to get David to restructure to a more cap friendly deal. Same 4 million guaranteed, with a lower salary(say in the $3 million range) but for more than the 2 years he has now... say 4 or 5 years. If they did it right, at the same time Andre did his, it would look like we were just extending his contract, and that we are in fact happy with him. We might be able to pull that off now.

No Ramsey, no Plummer, if we can get David to restructure, say we're ending our QB conundrum right now, and moving on, then Tampa may change how they see their position, and try to move Plummer.

It would help all sides. David will be more attractive if his contract is already restructured.... I don't know if a $3million salary would be low enough to raise interest, but it would be more attractive than the $5.75 million he is scheduled to earn.

It would help our position, and make it look like we are satisfied with our position.

Tampa Bay would realize if they want to get anything for Plummer(say Dexter McLeon, or Jason Simmons) they better get while the getting is good, otherwise they'll have to cut Jake, and get nothing.

Insideop
03-08-2007, 09:25 AM
You're forgetting about Carr's contract. There might be a GM out there who might want to give Carr a try, but that fat contract of his kills the chances of any trade.
They'll have to either cut him, or keep him. Cutting him is an admission of a horrendous mistake.

Swallow hard.

I still think there's someone out there that will take him. His contract isn't that fat (like Vicks) to prohibit every team. The thing that has teams mulling over the deal is what the Texans are asking (3rd or 4th rd pick). But, as all the good QB FA's get signed, Carr's stock has to be rising for teams like Oak. and Minn. who may be looking for a vet QB.

I think the Texans are sitting back and waiting. If the Vikes feel they have to give up too much for Schaub, they just might go back to the Texans and start dealing again. :poker: JMHO!

Marcus
03-08-2007, 09:26 AM
my thoughts on that, from another thread:

And his incentive for restructuring would be . . . . ????

thunderkyss
03-08-2007, 09:36 AM
And his incentive for restructuring would be . . . . ????

a contract that says he'll get paid $3million in '07. I doubt he'll get that if he's cut.

petedy
03-08-2007, 11:41 AM
I think Kubiak and Smith are trying to play hardball with other teams in the league.Why,I do not know.I thought they were going to release Carr and pick up Ramsey but all this secrecy is confusing to figure.Carr is no where to be found,Sage is at all the news conferences and they say Carr is their QB which is usually a death nill for a player, so what now? Either they have had a deal already in place waiting on draft day or they truly see nothing out there that they like.They could also be satisfied with Carr'simprovement and see through some of the bad play or maybe Sage is the one who'll be traded. They are being the old riverboat gamblers.But with all that has been said about Carr in Houston by everyone including a couple of teamates I can't him even staying.Because I know I would what to go elsewhere.:poker:

Brandon420tx
03-08-2007, 12:01 PM
Carr is no where to be found

Did it occur to anyone that he's out somewhere trying to better himself for this year? (if this is true I hope that he's doing passing drills with AJ ....)

thunderkyss
03-08-2007, 12:29 PM
They could also be satisfied with Carr'simprovement and see through some of the bad play or maybe Sage is the one who'll be traded. .:poker:

I've been re-watching my taped games, & so far, I've noticed a few games(NYGiants, and Jax @ Reliant, Miami wasn't bad, and neither was Washington) where Carr played really well. enough to agree with this conclusion.

I've been down on Carr for a while now, & I thought '06 was going to go one of two ways, Carr was going to start out slow(like always) but come mid season, something was going to click, and he was going to blossom into the QB we all want behind Center, or he was going to give up, and just go through the motions. I think he chose the latter after the Nashville game.

& that is the only reason I could see Kubiak washing his hands of him. If I'm wrong about that, I could see Kubiak being happier with him than he is letting on, but I don't know why he'd want to "disguise" how he really felt.

Did it occur to anyone that he's out somewhere trying to better himself for this year? (if this is true I hope that he's doing passing drills with AJ ....)

I've been asking Hulk75 if this was the case, but he hasn't been very forthcoming with the answer... because of my post history, I can understand that. Maybe you should ask him, and get us an answer.

jerek
03-08-2007, 12:41 PM
Got to love the irony of people who call David Carr trash and say his performance warrants his ticket out of town but in the next breath espouse his high trade value.

I personally think there are a number of teams that would give up possibly even a third for him but you've got to realize that his performance to date means that any "value" is still primarily about as yet unrealized potential.

TexansLucky13
03-08-2007, 12:45 PM
Got to love the irony of people who call David Carr trash and say his performance warrants his ticket out of town but in the next breath espouse his high trade value.

I personally think there are a number of teams that would give up possibly even a third for him but you've got to realize that his performance to date means that any "value" is still all about as yet unrealized potential.

100% agreed. This is perhaps the most intelligent thing I have heard anyone say about anything, ever.

True Carr haters would be saying that Carr has no trade value whatsoever and should just be dropped whenever possible. I mean, come on. If he is worth a 3rd to someone else, or a higher 1st round pick, why would we trade him? It's not like we have a Tom Brady waiting behind him to pick up where he left off. I know some people have a high on Sage Rosenfels, and that is fine. But you really have to analyze your thinking before bashing David and talking about his trade value in the same sentence.

I should avoid this Message Board during the offseason. Tis' a silly place.

Texan_Bill
03-08-2007, 12:46 PM
I've been asking Hulk75 if this was the case, but he hasn't been very forthcoming with the answer... because of my post history, I can understand that. Maybe you should ask him, and get us an answer.


Hulk75 chimed in on another thread http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=36343

Bubbajwp
03-08-2007, 12:58 PM
OK, what are our options at QB, and what do you think the Texans will do?

The situation now, as I see it, with all of the good QB FA's gone is in one way we are in the drivers seat, with regards to trading Carr, and the other way we are in the hot seat, with regards to not having an established QB, should Carr be traded.

Drivers Seat :drive:

I still think Carr will be traded, and I think his value should be going up. There are still teams looking for a starting QB (like Oak. and Minn.) that may want to get a vet in while a rookie watches and learns. The way I see it the Vikes are in a key position for the Texans. They let Brad Johnson go and I think they are desperate for a veteran QB. I know they were interested in Carr earlier, and then there was a rumor about a trade for Schaub, but I haven't heard anything in awhile. Sure, they could pick Quinn at #7, but then he would probably be "thrown into the fire" pretty soon. I still think they are our best chance for a trade.

Oakland is another interesting situation. Do they stand pat with their QB's and draft Russell, or do they go after Carr or Schaub and then draft Johnson? And, if they do decide to get Russell, would they still get another vet QB to start while Russell learns?

Hot Seat :evilb:

If we do trade Carr, that leaves us with only Sage as a QB with any NFL experience. So, who do we get to start and who do we draft? I still think somehow that Plummer could still be in the mix. Other than that I don't know who is left out there that would be a good fit.

As for the draft, if the Vikes get Carr or Schaub, then I'm not sure they would draft Quinn. They may wait until later rounds to get Stanton, Kolb, Smith, or Edwards. But, if they don't get Carr or Schaub, then I think they are in a bind and would most likely pick Quinn. So, I guess the question becomes, if we trade Carr and the Vikes take Quinn, who would the Texans pick and in what round?

What say you?

Sorry for bringing up a old trade rumor but if the Texans are looking for a deep threat across from AJ. Troy Williamson for Carr sounds like a decent trade with some additional late round draft picks.

HuttoKarl
03-08-2007, 01:01 PM
Sorry for bringing up a old trade rumor but if the Texans are looking for a deep threat across from AJ. Troy Williamson for Carr sounds like a decent trade with some additional late round draft picks.

Too bad Troy can't catch.

Bubbajwp
03-08-2007, 01:17 PM
Too bad Troy can't catch.

AJ has the same problem sometimes.

HuttoKarl
03-08-2007, 01:19 PM
AJ has the same problem sometimes.

Sometimes, but he still tripled Troy's totals.

Bubbajwp
03-08-2007, 01:21 PM
Sometimes, but he still tripled Troy's totals.

Ya but Troy didnt have Carr throwing him the ball. Sorry I couldnt resist.

Ole Miss Texan
03-08-2007, 01:42 PM
I wish AJ would catch with his hands more...It seems a lot of times he catches it with his body.

pittbull
03-08-2007, 02:22 PM
For all the Carr haters, the writing is on the wall, and it's being etched in stone! Patrick Ramsey, a former #1 pick in 2002, decides on a 2 year deal with the Broncos, the Texans sister-in-law, and it goes right over most heads. This could only mean one thing, DAvie "Franchise" will be the starter for next season! Ramsey, who has had limited opportunity to play under certain situations with the Jets, the Pennington love affair, and with a dysfunctional Redskins Franchise, left Houston, a place perceived to be looking for a starter, to accept a guaranteed back-up role. My perception, he felt the job was still David's! No mattter what is being said in the press, there is something in the front office the team is conveying, that makes QB's think, I have no chance in Houston. I believe the Texans feel with better line play, a more consistent running game, and a vamped up defense, Carr can play more to the potential they thought about. But, don't you just love Houston. If I was a free agent, I would break my back trying to get down here. Big money contracts, no accountability for your playing, and as long as you smile and play the good ol' boy role, you can pick up a check for ever. I actually feel the same way the front office feels about Carr, but at one point or another, there has to be an identity placed to this team, besides the happy front office and locker room losers.:snobord:

ib4texans
03-08-2007, 02:30 PM
For all the Carr haters, the writing is on the wall, and it's being etched in stone! Patrick Ramsey, a former #1 pick in 2002, decides on a 2 year deal with the Broncos, the Texans sister-in-law, and it goes right over most heads. This could only mean one thing, DAvie "Franchise" will be the starter for next season! Ramsey, who has had limited opportunity to play under certain situations with the Jets, the Pennington love affair, and with a dysfunctional Redskins Franchise, left Houston, a place perceived to be looking for a starter, to accept a guaranteed back-up role. My perception, he felt the job was still David's! No mattter what is being said in the press, there is something in the front office the team is conveying, that makes QB's think, I have no chance in Houston. I believe the Texans feel with better line play, a more consistent running game, and a vamped up defense, Carr can play more to the potential they thought about. But, don't you just love Houston. If I was a free agent, I would break my back trying to get down here. Big money contracts, no accountability for your playing, and as long as you smile and play the good ol' boy role, you can pick up a check for ever. I actually feel the same way the front office feels about Carr, but at one point or another, there has to be an identity placed to this team, besides the happy front office and locker room losers.:snobord:



Your signature "the original no duplicating.
Then why is this same post in another thread?

Exithios
03-08-2007, 02:31 PM
Your signature "the original no duplicating.
Then why is this same post in another thread?

Because a MOD felt it belonged in this thread and moved it.

ib4texans
03-08-2007, 02:32 PM
Because a MOD felt it belonged in this thread and moved it.


Well...................that makes sense then.

MorKnolle
03-08-2007, 09:18 PM
Nothing in the Texans offseason has been more controversial than the QB debate. Now that we've had a week of free agency/trading, I thought I'd reflect on the impending situation at QB for our team, so here are our options:

It was widely speculated that the Texans would bring Jake Plummer in to either replace David Carr or compete with him for the starting spot this year. However, the Texans were apparently unwilling to give up a draft pick to trade for Plummer and he was sent to Tampa Bay and subsequently has said he will retire rather than playing there. It could very well just be a shallow threat in order to get traded to a team he wants to play for, most likely us, however, if we weren't willing to give up a draft pick before there is no reason that they would now, and it doesn't sound like they are making much of an effort to go get him. The team was rumored to have been pursuing Jeff Garcia but he signed with Tampa Bay. They also brought Patrick Ramsey in for an interview, but he opted to go to Denver to be the backup there rather than coming here and, according to some people in the local media, being able to compete for a starting job, to me it sounds a little suspect that he'd choose a guaranteed backup role over a possible starting role, if he was indeed considered to be a potential starter. That leaves us with an even thinner market for veteran QBs, along with Brad Johnson signing in Dallas, which basically leaves us with a choice of Joey Harrington or Trent Green if he gets released. The Chronicle and SportsRadio610 guys have all been hyping up Carr leaving for months now, but keep in mind these are the same group of guys that kept insisting up until mid-April last year that Vince Young would be our pick. It is their job to appeal to the local masses and sell their newspapers/radio programs and to be entertaining in that manner, they are far from experts on what is happening with the organization, unfortunately they are the best that most of us have to listen to.

Given the current available QBs, I don't think you can say that there are any options out there that are better than Carr, so it doesn't make much sense to move Carr other than just for the sake of making a change, which to me isn't a good enough reason. That leads us to the upcoming draft. It has been rumored of late in the Houston Chronicle that the Texans are very interested in Brady Quinn, which is quite possible. However, that would take our 1st round pick to do and would mean that we will be using a stop-gap QB for a year while Quinn is groomed to the NFL game. I personally think Quinn is currently the best QB in this draft and would prefer us to draft him rather than JaMarcus Russell, however Quinn is not as athletic as Carr, he does not have a strong of an arm, and outside of that it is questionable whether he is better in much of any way than Carr, other than he'd have the bonus of getting good coaching from day 1 as opposed to four years of horrendous coaching and gameplanning.

David Carr is a servicable QB. In this league there are only two QBs that can consistently carry their team and make everyone around them better: Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. I would say at times Donovan McNabb has been able to do this, he's always had a good defense but he's had to carry their offense at times. Outside of them there are many QBs who have had their moments, but most of them need a solid team around them in order to win games, and they will do so more by managing the game and not making mistakes to lose the game for their team. It is very rare to find a special QB like that, some teams keep spinning their wheels and using high draft picks trying to find that one special guy rather than building up the rest of their team around a QB. Outside of those few special QBs, any average-good QB that can manage a game can lead a solid team to the playoffs. That said, I think we've taken some good steps towards building a legitimate team, we certainly have a good way to go still, but my point is I don't think there are any QBs at all that we could bring into this team right now that would take us anywhere past wild card contention. I think Brady Quinn is a fine QB and could develop into a very good QB if things work out well for him, but I don't think he's that special type, so he will still need a strong team around him to succeed, heck he couldn't even win big games in college on his own. I would be ok with us drafting Quinn if they really feel they need to move in that direction, however with the current state of our team I think there are still a bunch of holes that we really need to fill and the #8 pick this year could be used to grab a very good player at one of those positions. We can move our servicable QB and draft another good QB prospect and hope he works out while leaving one more hole on our team unfixed and hope that Quinn can battle along with a lesser team for a couple years while we continue to build around him, or we can leave our QB in place for now and continue building a strong team around him. Then if QB is a big need for us a year or two down the road when we do have a more complete team, but are just lacking in QB play, then we can go out and fill that hole.

I know a lot of you out there are not very big fans of Brady Quinn, but the reality is that our choice at QB this offseason is either stick with David Carr and have him compete with Sage Rosenfels for the starting job while focusing our attention on building the rest of the team, or moving Carr for whatever draft pick we can get for him and then likely drafting Brady Quinn. If we keep Carr we could even use a 3rd or 4th round pick on a mid-level QB like Trent Edwards, Drew Stanton, or Kevin Kolb so we get another young, servicable QB to groom in the wings to become our eventual starter if we need them to, and in the process not using a high 1st round pick to grab a QB. In my mind, there isn't a real big difference between drafting Quinn or going with one of the next-tier guys in terms of how well they can lead this team down the road, so I personally would prefer to focus our higher picks on getting one of the special talents that should be available (Adrian Peterson could be available, it's maybe looking a little more likely now that Cleveland signed Jamal Lewis, Laron Landry looks like he is going to be a stud at FS, Jamaal Anderson, Amobi Okoye, or Alan Branch should all turn into very good DLinemen, and all of those guys are at positions that we definitely have a big need).

That is more or less the current state of our QB situation. Everyone out there can agree that we need better and more consistent play out of that position than what we've been getting, although we will all disagree on the best way to achieve that. Our main options for QB this offseason are to move forward with David Carr and Sage Rosenfels duking it out possibly with a mid-round QB waiting in the wings or else moving Carr and drafting Brady Quinn and sitting him for a year while he adjusts to the NFL game, so take your pick on which you'd prefer because that's about all we're left with at this point. My vote would be to keep Carr around and use all the ammo we have on bringing in legitimate, solid starters elsewhere on our team rather than using another 1st round pick on merely a servicable QB that is not going to be able to succeed any better with our current team. We'll see what the Texans front office decides to do in the coming weeks.

Feel free to discuss your opinions on the matter.

TexansLucky13
03-08-2007, 09:22 PM
1st Round Pick - LaRon Landry

3rd Round Pick - Drew Stanton (Kevin Kolb or Troy Smith)

Whichever one of these three is available in the 3rd should be taken. It would be incredibly worthless to trade up for Quinn at this point. He is looking less appealing to me with each passing day.

macaronitoni
03-08-2007, 09:26 PM
Seems like one of these three guys will be starting. My bet is on Sage. David is more likely than Jake.

Second Question. I seriously doubt Quinn will last til 8. Out of Kolb, Stanton, and the other guys, who do you think will make the team? My bet is on Kolb.

gtexan02
03-08-2007, 09:33 PM
jake plummer is retired. why does everyone think he's on the Texans?

MorKnolle
03-08-2007, 09:33 PM
Out of the 2nd tier guys (Drew Stanton, Kevin Kolb, Trent Edwards, Troy Smith), I think Edwards would probably be their guy if all of them are available to choose from. I think he's the most like their type of QB, assuming he can stay healthy which he's struggled with during his college career. I don't expect they'd use anything higher than their 3rd round on any of them though, and I personally wouldn't even use our 3rd on one of them. If we could trade down in the 3rd or else trade back up into the late 3rd from our 4th rounder then maybe, but I don't like any of them enough that I would use our 3rd round pick on one.

Spike
03-08-2007, 09:39 PM
Unless something unfolds before the draft, I think we'll be looking at a first day draft pick at QB. I would prefer that this be a third round pick, so that we can use our first two picks on players that can make an immediate impact next season (OL, DB, DL, or WR). We have so many holes to fill, I think we can find two starters in the first two rounds next year.

That being said, I think both Smith and Kubiak are more concerned about making a winning franchise vs. winning season, so I would not be shocked if we took Quinn if he falls to 8.

Texans33
03-08-2007, 09:39 PM
jake plummer is retired. why does everyone think he's on the Texans?

Not officially....... this is taken from rotoworld on 3/8

It's believed Plummer wants to play for Houston, and that he very well may get dealt there in the end. Plummer posted a message on his website saying thanks to his fans, but hasn't formally filed retirement paperwork with the NFL.

thunderkyss
03-08-2007, 09:42 PM
My vote would be to keep Carr around and use all the ammo we have on bringing in legitimate, solid starters elsewhere on our team rather than using another 1st round pick on merely a servicable QB that is not going to be able to succeed any better with our current team. We'll see what the Texans front office decides to do in the coming weeks.

Feel free to discuss your opinions on the matter.

If we're going to bring in legitimate starters at the other positions on our team, why should it be different for the QB. David is not a starter, and never has been. 6 years later, it would just be stupid, unfair to our team, and unfair to our fans to trot him out there again, as a starter.

I've seen enough of Sage last year, in the preseason, in Dallas, in Nashville, in Jacksonville, and on the sideline of every other game, coaching David on what he should be doing, what he should be thinking, and what he shouldn't do.

Sage should be our starter.

he may not do better than David, but it won't be because he can't take a snap out of the shotgun, or because he crossed his feet the wrong way on his drop, or because he isn't seeing the whole field.

You want to call it a competition, that's fine.... you want to pay David $5.75 million to back up our $2million QB... that's fine.

But... If Kubiak/Smith's evaluation of Quinn is higher than yours(& mine) that he is a franchise QB(I'm not sold on that), then you've got to take him. Next year, you may have to give up your whole draft this year & next to get into position to draft a franchise QB. the year after, maybe even worse.

We might miss miserably on Quinn, and he may turn out to be worse than Carr. But just like we had to take the chance with Carr... we've got to take that chance with Quinn.

Because even though your Hasselbecks(sp), Dilfer's, Johnsons & so forth may win you superbowls, those teams struggle to get into the play-offs year after year.

But your Mannings, your Brady's, & your Mcnabbs, get in year after year, after year, and are the favorites to win their divisions more times than not.

Again, I stress........ Smith & Kubiak has to believe he is Elite... otherwise, I don't care if we pass on Quinn. I don't believe he is elite, but I'll trust their decision.

Tulip
03-09-2007, 01:04 AM
If the Texans don't secure Plummer (which I still think is a fair possibility), Sage will be the starter next year.

Carr is not going to be a member of this team next year, and the trade possibilities look decent. The Texans are not going to pay Carr $7.5+ million to sit the bench.

I know some people think that the Texans' failure to secure Plummer, Garcia, or Ramsey is a sign that Carr will be back. I think the opposite is true. It's a sure sign that he'll be gone.

dvs1
03-09-2007, 01:46 AM
I find it funny how many think Carr is so highly rated around the league yet noone seems to be falling over themselves to get him. Yet you hear rumors about a backup like Schaub garnering 1st or 2nd round interest.

Second Honeymoon
03-09-2007, 02:00 AM
I find it funny how many think Carr is so highly rated around the league yet noone seems to be falling over themselves to get him. Yet you hear rumors about a backup like Schaub garnering 1st or 2nd round interest.

you win! i don't know exactly what you win, but you win.

QB75
03-09-2007, 08:57 AM
If the Texans don't secure Plummer (which I still think is a fair possibility), Sage will be the starter next year.

Carr is not going to be a member of this team next year, and the trade possibilities look decent. The Texans are not going to pay Carr $7.5+ million to sit the bench.

I know some people think that the Texans' failure to secure Plummer, Garcia, or Ramsey is a sign that Carr will be back. I think the opposite is true. It's a sure sign that he'll be gone.

But then who will we have as QBs other than Sage? A rookie? Or do you envision another free agent sufacing?

thunderkyss
03-09-2007, 09:00 AM
But then who will we have as QBs other than Sage? A rookie? Or do you envision another free agent sufacing?

what difference does it make, as long as it isn't the 6th year rookie.

Tulip
03-09-2007, 09:04 AM
But then who will we have as QBs other than Sage? A rookie? Or do you envision another free agent sufacing?

Yes, a rookie. 2nd or 3rd round - probably not a 1st rounder/Brady Quinn.

QB75
03-09-2007, 09:05 AM
what difference does it make, as long as it isn't the 6th year rookie.

A lot. But I'm not surprised you had to ask.

Texan_Bill
03-09-2007, 09:05 AM
I find it funny how many think Carr is so highly rated around the league yet noone seems to be falling over themselves to get him. Yet you hear rumors about a backup like Schaub garnering 1st or 2nd round interest.

Completely different situations... Schaub is a RFA. Carr is under contract. Whether a team was interested in Carr, or not, it would not be in their best interest to act as though they didn't covet Carr, because they can roll the dice and hope the Texans cut him outright, or wait until the very end and offer a minimal pick...

Has nothing to do with what you are suggesting....

QB75
03-09-2007, 09:09 AM
Yes, a rookie. 2nd or 3rd round - probably not a 1st rounder/Brady Quinn.

While I understand your logic, I think that the probability of that scenario is pretty low.

I don't expect them to go with Sage and a 2nd/3rd round draft pick as the #2 QB. It is simply too fragile of a situation. There will have to be another veteran in the picture - either Carr stays, Plummer finds his way here, or another veteran enters the picture.

It will be interesting too see.

pv1999
03-09-2007, 09:17 AM
So what if Carr beats out Sage and whoever during the offseason?

Although it may not show up in wins and losses he is a talented QB. Much better than Plummer when he went to Denver.

thunderkyss
03-09-2007, 09:30 AM
A lot. But I'm not surprised you had to ask.

I'm surprised you think there is a difference. Wether we start David Carr, or Jared Zabransky, they both have to be acclimated to the Speed of the NFL. I haven't seen anything to suggest David has any advantage whatsoever over an undrafted rookie.

So what if Carr beats out Sage and whoever during the offseason?

Although it may not show up in wins and losses he is a talented QB. Much better than Plummer when he went to Denver.

What makes you say that?? is it his ability to underthrow every route over 5 yards?? his ability to take a punch?? or his incredible lack of vision??

QB75
03-09-2007, 09:35 AM
I'm surprised you think there is a difference. Wether we start David Carr, or Jared Zabransky, they both have to be acclimated to the Speed of the NFL. I haven't seen anything to suggest David has any advantage whatsoever over an undrafted rookie.



What makes you say that?? is it his ability to underthrow every route over 5 yards?? his ability to take a punch?? or his incredible lack of vision??

I'm sure you haven't. I'm sure that you believe that most NFL GMs would view Carr (a 5 yr veteran) and Zabransky (a college player) as equals.

That's fine.

Texan_Bill
03-09-2007, 09:40 AM
I haven't seen anything to suggest David has any advantage whatsoever over an undrafted rookie.


C'mon TK.... You can't see any advantages that Carr would have over an undrafted rookie? Thats just ridiculous!!

I would say that DC has a distinct advantage.... Albeit monetary, but a decisive advantage nonetheless...

real
03-09-2007, 09:49 AM
TK is wrong about this one....


The rookie has the advantage...

Carr is not a QB that's going to lead you to the big game...He's too nervous...

Atleast a rookie has the chance to be molded...Carr's pretty much been ruined by bad moves and poor coaching...

thunderkyss
03-09-2007, 09:50 AM
C'mon TK.... You can't see any advantages that Carr would have over an undrafted rookie? Thats just ridiculous!!

I would say that DC has a distinct advantage.... Albeit monetary, but a decisive advantage nonetheless...

He's got a strong arm, he can take a sack....

those are the David Carr pluses...


Anything else you get out of David, you can get out of anyone else.

His ability to read a defense... not there.

His accuracy... not there.

His judgement.. not there.

His ability to protect the football... not there.

His on field production, in yards & TDs... not there.

His on field leadership, & overall command of the offense... not there.

What do we get by starting David?? What is the benefit??

Exithios
03-09-2007, 09:52 AM
He's got a strong arm, he can take a sack....

those are the David Carr pluses...


Anything else you get out of David, you can get out of anyone else.

His ability to read a defense... not there.

His accuracy... not there.

His judgement.. not there.

His ability to protect the football... not there.

His on field production, in yards & TDs... not there.

His on field leadership, & overall command of the offense... not there.

What do we get by starting David?? What is the benefit??

He makes our offense look priddy.

2BCF
03-09-2007, 10:15 AM
I find it funny how many think Carr is so highly rated around the league yet noone seems to be falling over themselves to get him. Yet you hear rumors about a backup like Schaub garnering 1st or 2nd round interest.

Exactly. DC will have to be cut or we may get a 4th if we're lucky.

pv1999
03-09-2007, 10:19 AM
He's got a strong arm, he can take a sack....

those are the David Carr pluses...


Anything else you get out of David, you can get out of anyone else.

His ability to read a defense... not there.

His accuracy... not there.

His judgement.. not there.

His ability to protect the football... not there.

His on field production, in yards & TDs... not there.

His on field leadership, & overall command of the offense... not there.

What do we get by starting David?? What is the benefit??

and the witch hunt is on.
So I guess in your perfect world, you would bring in a guy who would instantly give us all of that? Why don't you compare Carr's numbers to the guys we could bring in to replace him. Or even put his college numbers against what the mighty quinn has done. Bottom line our problem is not QB, and the next guy that comes in here will prove that beyond the shadow of doubt, and the witch hunt will continue.....

Texan_Bill
03-09-2007, 10:20 AM
He's got a strong arm, he can take a sack....

those are the David Carr pluses...


You still fail to mention the bank account.... :)

thunderkyss
03-09-2007, 11:14 AM
and the witch hunt is on.
So I guess in your perfect world, you would bring in a guy who would instantly give us all of that? Why don't you compare Carr's numbers to the guys we could bring in to replace him. Or even put his college numbers against what the mighty quinn has done. Bottom line our problem is not QB, and the next guy that comes in here will prove that beyond the shadow of doubt, and the witch hunt will continue.....

In my world, we cut him, take the $5million we save, and get us a DT, or a Corner.... maybe a better LB.

Start someone who does all the things a starter does with out all the extra stroking Carr requires, and start trying to win, instead of developing a QB.



You still fail to mention the bank account.... :)

No matter how you slice it, we save money by letting go of David Carr.

& whether we keep him to start, or we keep him on the bench, we're overpaying.

So if you're going to overpay him, let's atleast try to win, and put him on the bench, until he's ready to start.

threetoedpete
03-09-2007, 11:19 AM
You're forgetting about Carr's contract. There might be a GM out there who might want to give Carr a try, but that fat contract of his kills the chances of any trade.

They'll have to either cut him, or keep him. Cutting him is an admission of a horrendous mistake.

Swallow hard.

The "mistake" of drafting him or resigning him ? They thought they could bring him back and didn't. No problem with that here. By passing Vincent wasn't a mistake. History will prove that.

threetoedpete
03-09-2007, 11:20 AM
In my world, we cut him, take the $5million we save, and get us a DT, or a Corner.... maybe a better LB.

Start someone who does all the things a starter does with out all the extra stroking Carr requires, and start trying to win, instead of developing a QB.

No matter how you slice it, we save money by letting go of David Carr.

& whether we keep him to start, or we keep him on the bench, we're overpaying.

So if you're going to overpay him, let's atleast try to win, and put him on the bench, until he's ready to start.

or draft another fifth round offensive line guy ?

real
03-09-2007, 11:21 AM
or draft another fifth round offensive line guy ?

Sounds like a winner.

2BCF
03-09-2007, 11:23 AM
The "mistake" of drafting him or resigning him ? They thought they could bring him back and didn't. No problem with that here. By passing Vincent wasn't a mistake. History will prove that.

Ha! After how many playoff appearances though???

thunderkyss
03-09-2007, 11:24 AM
or draft another fifth round offensive line guy ?

How many fifth round offensive line guys has Kubiak drafted??

How many has Smith drafted??

So how can you say "another"??

Mr. White
03-09-2007, 11:25 AM
or draft another fifth round offensive line guy ?

I expect we'll be getting another LT sometime after the first round. The franchise LT just isn't available this year. Joe Thomas will be gone by the 8th pick and it doesn't seem like the team thinks that Levi Brown is worth the 8th pick.

dvs1
03-09-2007, 02:34 PM
Completely different situations... Schaub is a RFA. Carr is under contract. Whether a team was interested in Carr, or not, it would not be in their best interest to act as though they didn't covet Carr, because they can roll the dice and hope the Texans cut him outright, or wait until the very end and offer a minimal pick...

The fact that Carr is under contract should make him all the more valuable if teams actually see him as a quality QB. Teams don't need to worry about giving him a signing bonus or the cap implications for cutting him if he doesn't work out. His salary won't make for an extreme cap number for a quality starting QB ($2million less a year than what we would be paying him). The only reason I would see for a lack of interest is if either noone thinks much of him or teams are absolutely sure we had to cut him due to fit under the cap, which we don't. Even though it looked as a given plummer would be cut he garnered a high 4th.

pv1999
03-09-2007, 02:49 PM
Teams that want David feel like he is worth waiting for.
Other teams feel like David may not really be available.
.......And for some he is no upgrade.

Texan_Bill
03-09-2007, 03:05 PM
The fact that Carr is under contract should make him all the more valuable if teams actually see him as a quality QB. Teams don't need to worry about giving him a signing bonus or the cap implications for cutting him if he doesn't work out. His salary won't make for an extreme cap number for a quality starting QB ($2million less a year than what we would be paying him). The only reason I would see for a lack of interest is if either noone thinks much of him or teams are absolutely sure we had to cut him due to fit under the cap, which we don't. Even though it looked as a given plummer would be cut he garnered a high 4th.

Thing is... If they hold their hand close to their chest, they can wait for Carr to be cut out-right. When that happens they can negotiate their own deal with him and I can promise, he wouldn't be making 5.75 million when that happens. See, his contract becomes a liability because of the salary base which in turn can hurt his value.

Thats all I am trying to say. JMO.

dvs1
03-09-2007, 03:36 PM
Thing is... If they hold their hand close to their chest, they can wait for Carr to be cut out-right. When that happens they can negotiate their own deal with him and I can promise, he wouldn't be making 5.75 million when that happens.

I agree, but that just goes back to my original point that Carr is not that highly thought of around the league. And $5 million a year seems to be the going rate for a veteran stop gap QB these days so I guess that if someone is interested in him it would be as a backup. We should take what we can get for him and be happy with our cap savings.

Big Ben Wallets
03-09-2007, 08:44 PM
Chances are Brady Quinn won't last past the 3rd pick. On my blog I've outlined why I believe the Browns will bring him back to Ohio. The 8th spot is actually the worst spot in this draft because there's a chance all the top talent could be gone and then the Texans would have to reach to fill a need. Here is that scenario:

1. Oak - JaMarcus Russell
2. Min - Calvin Johnson *trade*
3. Cle - Brady Quinn
4. TB - Gaines Adams
5. Arz - Joe Thomas
6. Was - Jamaal Anderson
7. Det - Adrian Peterson
8. Hou - Alan Branch/Amobi Okoye/LaRon Landry

Quinn, AD, Russell and Johnson will all be gone by No. 8.

NFLforher
03-09-2007, 09:09 PM
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/DEN/10051011


"I wanted to come in and tell you guys on camera and face-to-face that the speculation can stop tonight," Plummer said from the Denver Athletic Club. "You can know by the looking in my face and hearing my words that I am retiring from the NFL. At 32 years old, I'm running away from the game. Not in fear or fright, but health-wise. I'm healthy. I'm happy. I have a lot to look forward to in my life."

NFLforher
03-09-2007, 09:30 PM
Chances are Brady Quinn won't last past the 3rd pick. On my blog I've outlined why I believe the Browns will bring him back to Ohio. The 8th spot is actually the worst spot in this draft because there's a chance all the top talent could be gone and then the Texans would have to reach to fill a need. Here is that scenario:

1. Oak - JaMarcus Russell
2. Min - Calvin Johnson *trade*
3. Cle - Brady Quinn
4. TB - Gaines Adams
5. Arz - Joe Thomas
6. Was - Jamaal Anderson
7. Det - Adrian Peterson
8. Hou - Alan Branch/Amobi Okoye/LaRon Landry

Quinn, AD, Russell and Johnson will all be gone by No. 8.



Thanks for the link.

tsip
03-09-2007, 10:49 PM
Carr being a Texan next year would be an absolute disaster...JMO.

QB75
03-09-2007, 11:45 PM
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/DEN/10051011


"I wanted to come in and tell you guys on camera and face-to-face that the speculation can stop tonight," Plummer said from the Denver Athletic Club. "You can know by the looking in my face and hearing my words that I am retiring from the NFL. At 32 years old, I'm running away from the game. Not in fear or fright, but health-wise. I'm healthy. I'm happy. I have a lot to look forward to in my life."

I hope is sincere, and wish him well.

:highfive:

petedy
03-10-2007, 12:58 AM
Carr being a Texan next year would be an absolute disaster...JMO.

Well you better call FEMA now for any relief.

Jwwillis
03-10-2007, 01:24 AM
OK, what are our options at QB, and what do you think the Texans will do?

The situation now, as I see it, with all of the good QB FA's gone is in one way we are in the drivers seat, with regards to trading Carr, and the other way we are in the hot seat, with regards to not having an established QB, should Carr be traded.

Drivers Seat :drive:

I still think Carr will be traded, and I think his value should be going up. There are still teams looking for a starting QB (like Oak. and Minn.) that may want to get a vet in while a rookie watches and learns. The way I see it the Vikes are in a key position for the Texans. They let Brad Johnson go and I think they are desperate for a veteran QB. I know they were interested in Carr earlier, and then there was a rumor about a trade for Schaub, but I haven't heard anything in awhile. Sure, they could pick Quinn at #7, but then he would probably be "thrown into the fire" pretty soon. I still think they are our best chance for a trade.

Oakland is another interesting situation. Do they stand pat with their QB's and draft Russell, or do they go after Carr or Schaub and then draft Johnson? And, if they do decide to get Russell, would they still get another vet QB to start while Russell learns?

Hot Seat :evilb:

If we do trade Carr, that leaves us with only Sage as a QB with any NFL experience. So, who do we get to start and who do we draft? I still think somehow that Plummer could still be in the mix. Other than that I don't know who is left out there that would be a good fit.

As for the draft, if the Vikes get Carr or Schaub, then I'm not sure they would draft Quinn. They may wait until later rounds to get Stanton, Kolb, Smith, or Edwards. But, if they don't get Carr or Schaub, then I think they are in a bind and would most likely pick Quinn. So, I guess the question becomes, if we trade Carr and the Vikes take Quinn, who would the Texans pick and in what round?

What say you?

I THINK IT WILL GO SOMETHING LIKE THIS....

In a desperation move the Texans release David Carr and sign rookie free agent Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown's agent "Lucy" negotiated a 5yr. $65million contract with a reported $8million signing bonus. It seems since all other QB trade options had been exausted without success, Charlie Brown was the only "big name" player left to appease Texan fans who have DEMANDED a trade at all costs.

Charlie Brown, who now wants to be called "Mr. B", was quoted as saying, "Good grief!" when told Linus had been named the #2 receiver to replace Moulds. Texans fans were cheering in the streets with the news Carr had been released, few seemed to know or care who replaced him.

NFLforher
03-10-2007, 01:27 AM
Well you better call FEMA now for any relief.



:joker:

A Texan
03-10-2007, 09:44 AM
So what if Carr beats out Sage and whoever during the offseason?

Although it may not show up in wins and losses he is a talented QB. Much better than Plummer when he went to Denver.
If he really beat him out, that would be ok, but I haven't seen him beat anybody out (he was terrible in preseason last summer and they started him anyway). When somebody else has done better, they've gone back to Carr. It's the Texans practice of not allowing competition that I object to. When Tony Banks signed on, he was told that he was there just to be a backup. And so far the new regime has not shown any tendency to allow competion either, other than allowing Sage to play a second half.