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TEXANFAN23435
03-07-2007, 12:27 AM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results. Any sane QB would have gotten out of town before resigning for more punishment. I think Kubiak's arrival helped him. A big dose of coaching consistancy and some time could be help us see why he was the #1 pick. I think all you Carr bashers are in for a big let down because Carr will be the starter next season. Ramsey and Rosenfels will make key backups.

Reddevil63
03-07-2007, 12:30 AM
I don't think anybody will argue with the fact he got dealt a crappy hand, a lot of people just think that new surroundings would be good for him, and a new face of the franchise would be good for the Texans.

ledzeppelin229
03-07-2007, 12:32 AM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results. Any sane QB would have gotten out of town before resigning for more punishment. I think Kubiak's arrival helped him. A big dose of coaching consistancy and some time could be help us see why he was the #1 pick. I think all you Carr bashers are in for a big let down because Carr will be the starter next season. Ramsey and Rosenfels will make key backups.

I thought Carr was improving until he turned the ball over 4 times or so against Tennessee and threw 4 interceptions against New England. There was also the whole 2 touchdowns in the last 10 games, and the obvious fact that the less he did the better the team fared overall.

Carr might start out the season but if he has games where he practically loses single-handedly then he will be benched and someone else will be given a shot. And this board will probably be unbearable because all of the Carr die-hards will piss and moan about Carr being benched even if it gets the team a couple more wins.

Hervoyel
03-07-2007, 12:39 AM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results. Any sane QB would have gotten out of town before resigning for more punishment. I think Kubiak's arrival helped him. A big dose of coaching consistancy and some time could be help us see why he was the #1 pick. I think all you Carr bashers are in for a big let down because Carr will be the starter next season. Ramsey and Rosenfels will make key backups.

In 2002 David Carr took a beating because he didn't have a line that was good enough to protect him and he didn't have the experience at this level to protect himself. Tony Banks would have easily exceeded David Carr's results in 2002 for no other reason than that he had 6 years of experience prior to the Texans playing their first game.

In 2003 Banks came in and played in 7 games. He threw 5 TD's and 3 picks and an 86.6 QB rating. He was also 2-1 in games he started that year while playing with the exact same offense that David Carr was working with.

Tony Banks did better in the exact same situation that David Carr was in and I don't think you will find many people who will disagree that there have been better free agent QB's available since 2002 than Tony Banks.

All of them, almost to a man could have improved on David Carr's performance.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2007, 12:47 AM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results. Any sane QB would have gotten out of town before resigning for more punishment. I think Kubiak's arrival helped him. A big dose of coaching consistancy and some time could be help us see why he was the #1 pick. I think all you Carr bashers are in for a big let down because Carr will be the starter next season. Ramsey and Rosenfels will make key backups.

All I want is for the QB position to not be a liability to the team. I don't care WHO starts. If Kubiak can fix Carr, great. If he figures he can't, great.

I think most of us agree that Carr's problems today come from the beatings he took in 2002 and 2005. And that it's the fault of the old coaching staff and FO. But the point is we need a QB who can perform up to an NFL standard. If Carr was broken during that punishment, then he shouldn't be our starter as sad as that may be. Our team's job should be to win games, not to rehabilitate a broken player by costing our team games. If they want to put Carr on the shelf while they work through his issues, great... although I think he's getting paid too much money for it to make sense for them to do that.

Second Honeymoon
03-07-2007, 12:49 AM
In 2002 David Carr took a beating because he didn't have a line that was good enough to protect him and he didn't have the experience at this level to protect himself. Tony Banks would have easily exceeded David Carr's results in 2002 for no other reason than that he had 6 years of experience prior to the Texans playing their first game.

In 2003 Banks came in and played in 7 games. He threw 5 TD's and 3 picks and an 86.6 QB rating. He was also 2-1 in games he started that year while playing with the exact same offense that David Carr was working with.

Tony Banks did better in the exact same situation that David Carr was in and I don't think you will find many people who will disagree that there have been better free agent QB's available since 2002 than Tony Banks.

All of them, almost to a man could have improved on David Carr's performance.

someone on this board actually watches the game and remembers the past? wow, not surprised he is a 'blue'

when Banks outperforms you, you know there are inhernet problems in your game (IQ, release point, deer in headlights syndrome, inability to grasp playbook, inability to overcome adversity, inability to make plays when it counts, inability to dedicate himself to football, inability to win over his teammates, and and inability to WIN.

The only thing Carr has shown the ability to do is cash a big check, get his haircut, and get sacked.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2007, 12:53 AM
In 2002 David Carr took a beating because he didn't have a line that was good enough to protect him and he didn't have the experience at this level to protect himself. Tony Banks would have easily exceeded David Carr's results in 2002 for no other reason than that he had 6 years of experience prior to the Texans playing their first game.

In 2003 Banks came in and played in 7 games. He threw 5 TD's and 3 picks and an 86.6 QB rating. He was also 2-1 in games he started that year while playing with the exact same offense that David Carr was working with.

Tony Banks did better in the exact same situation that David Carr was in and I don't think you will find many people who will disagree that there have been better free agent QB's available since 2002 than Tony Banks.

All of them, almost to a man could have improved on David Carr's performance.

Damn, man. I'd almost forgotten that. I remember thinking, "Hey! Let's let Tony Banks continue to... WAIT! What am I thinking?! This is TONY BANKS! Get Carr back in there!" But Banks did look better than Carr at that time.

kiwitexansfan
03-07-2007, 03:18 AM
At that time Banks had a fair bit of experience that Carr lacked, which really helps.

They also had a decent defense.

South Texan
03-07-2007, 03:30 AM
I would love to see Carr live up to his potential. MAYBE the fact he has lost his assurance of being the franchise QB will give him a nudge in the right direction, and hopefully, Kubes has been in his head to solve some of his mental problems.

However with what has been coming out of the Front Office, I would not be surprised to see him somewhere else next year. If not, I don't see any way he will start preseason as the guaranteed starter. Limber up Sage, it's your chance to be a hero.

afcman
03-07-2007, 03:32 AM
The results speak for themselves. We need to move on. It's just the way it is.

I hear and read a lot of talk from other teams saying how they like Carr.... Well, where are they if he's available? If they REALLY wanted him they'd make a deal work. Otherwise we can just hang on to him as a backup for the time being since we're paying him.

May be sad to say, but I don't think he's much better than a really good backup now.

BigWig
03-07-2007, 08:52 AM
Heck even when Banks was filling in it was more exciting and we saw more downfield passes, dalthough he did have fumbleitis. I think there was someone who could have done better which supports my current theory
ABC= Anything But Carr

Vinny
03-07-2007, 08:53 AM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results. Any sane QB would have gotten out of town before resigning for more punishment. I think Kubiak's arrival helped him. A big dose of coaching consistancy and some time could be help us see why he was the #1 pick. I think all you Carr bashers are in for a big let down because Carr will be the starter next season. Ramsey and Rosenfels will make key backups.
Who is going to ask out of 60 mil dollars? Tony Banks had better results...and he was the only guy who got any snaps other than Carr. Carr had 1 TD pass of any consequence the last 10 games of the season. He threw TWO total in those ten games as the other one was in garbage time...all while getting sacked less than 2 times a game. WATCH SOME GAMES.

thunderkyss
03-07-2007, 09:08 AM
WE all agree Carr got a raw deal.

Doesn't change the fact that 5 years into this, we need to start worrying about winning football games, and not rehabing our broken QB.

If Kubiak wants to keep David on the bench until he's ready, I'm fine with that. I don't care about the money.

But I'm ready for winning to be the top priority when my team takes the field on Sunday.

Kaiser Toro
03-07-2007, 09:42 AM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results. Any sane QB would have gotten out of town before resigning for more punishment. I think Kubiak's arrival helped him. A big dose of coaching consistancy and some time could be help us see why he was the #1 pick. I think all you Carr bashers are in for a big let down because Carr will be the starter next season. Ramsey and Rosenfels will make key backups.

2002 was a breakdown by our scouting department regarding Carr rather than a breakdown of having players that could support Carr.

The writing was on the wall as there were many tells out there about his inadequacies that were harbingers about how he would scale in the NFL. Props go to Wolf and HonoringEarl34 for digging up the USAtoday eval and Carr's Senior Bowl diary

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/2002draft/qbs/davidcarr.htm
Negatives: While he shows accuracy on his long passes, his arm strength is adequate, as he tends to arc his deep attempts…Holds the ball too long, inviting the sack, rather than dumping it off or throwing it away…Makes proper checks, but does not have a variety of throws…Needs to improve his pass drop, as he does a lot of three-step motion and will hold the ball a little too long, taking the sack rather than throwing it away.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/seniorbowl/carrgamediary.html
5:00 p.m. CT: After that first series, I talked with my coaches and Tulane QB Patrick Ramsey about some options. I need to settle down and get a feel for the game. I sure wasn't expecting to get sacked a couple of times in that second series. It wasn't scary or anything but it's never any fun to get dropped.

5:30 p.m. CT: The first half went fine for me. It was a lot of fun. The important part of an All-Star game is to work hard during the week -- the game is just a reward. I think our WRs really stood out for us in the first half, especially Kelly Campbell (Georgia Tech), Tim Carter (Auburn) and Freddie Milons (Alabama).

It's time to go to the locker room for halftime. It's not going to be like a regular halftime, that's for sure. I think we'll just be hanging out waiting for the halftime show to end. I don't expect a lot of adjustments or anything. The plan is to come out and warm-up because I'm definitely going to play some more. Tulane QB Patrick Ramsey will start the half and then I'll give it another go.

6:30 p.m. CT: Our guys are showing their speed in the second half. QB coach Geep Chryst let me know we would run the halfback pass for Woody Dantzler so we ran down the sideline to get a better view of the play. It's called I-Right, Halfback Pass. It's nothing special, you just pitch it back to Woody and see how far he can throw it. He did a great job on that play, I just wish we had scored. Antwaan Randle El has been getting all the pub in the game so we had to get some love for Woody.

I'm going to warm-up because I'm back in on our next series.

7:00 p.m. CT: We won the game 41-26. I'm disappointed I wasn't able to get in during the second half. It was tough when we started running the ball so the clock moved quickly. Coach McGinnis came over and told me he didn't want to risk any injuries with only 4:00 left in the game. He also told me the we did what we came to do during the week. I had a great week in Mobile. Everybody was been great down here. I think I made myself a little bit better as a player this week.

bigbrewster2000
03-07-2007, 09:45 AM
Wow we are actually still talking about this. Amazing. Get over it people. What more is there to talk about. What is left to say that hasn't been said already?

So to answer the who,who,who??? question. At this point WHO, WHO, WHO CARES!?!?!?!?!

yourfavoritetexan42
03-07-2007, 09:54 AM
Banks was playing with a defense with Marcus Coleman, Aaron Glenn, Jamie Sharper Kailiee Wong and Gary Walker, all somewhat in their prime and played some pretty good football.

Name one starter last year that was effective for the texans (our 2-14 season).


...Dunta Robinson?.... barely....????

Exactly. What was the difference of Carr at the begining of this season and the end? Charles Spencer. I believe if Charles Spencer had not gone down, we would have been 8-8.

Beer and Metal
03-07-2007, 10:25 AM
In 2002 David Carr took a beating because he didn't have a line that was good enough to protect him and he didn't have the experience at this level to protect himself. Tony Banks would have easily exceeded David Carr's results in 2002 for no other reason than that he had 6 years of experience prior to the Texans playing their first game.

In 2003 Banks came in and played in 7 games. He threw 5 TD's and 3 picks and an 86.6 QB rating. He was also 2-1 in games he started that year while playing with the exact same offense that David Carr was working with.
Tony Banks did better in the exact same situation that David Carr was in and I don't think you will find many people who will disagree that there have been better free agent QB's available since 2002 than Tony Banks.

All of them, almost to a man could have improved on David Carr's performance.



I seem to remember Banks winning one, losing one, and leaving the third after injuring his hand(?). Carr came in with a still-injured shoulder, and the game was pretty much won by D. Davis.

Vinny
03-07-2007, 10:30 AM
So to answer the who,who,who??? question. At this point WHO, WHO, WHO CARES!?!?!?!?!Texans fans

HuttoKarl
03-07-2007, 10:32 AM
I'm shocked that nobody said "vince young" yet.

Porky
03-07-2007, 10:45 AM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results.

Okay, I'll play.

Carson Palmer
Eli Manning
Phillip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Alex Smith
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler

Might be one or two others, but those are the ones I can think of. That's eight. That represents 1/4 of all starting NFL QB's, and those are only the ones drafted after David Carr.

coachdent
03-07-2007, 11:03 AM
Okay, I'll play.

Carson Palmer A statue. would never have survived
Eli Manning Another statue and extremely overrated
Phillip Rivers Has not shown himself to be a clutch QB as of yet. Has THE best RB and TE in league at his disposal as well as a fantastic offsensive line
Ben Roethlisberger Ben has looked every bit the QB from the MAC conference in recent years. He only had to hand the ball off primarily. That's why the Steelers won games.
Alex Smith Ok...a number one pick four years after Carr... I guess I give him a shot. Sure. A bit silly arguement.. But yeah.
Vince Young Don't get me started. Short term..ok. Long term? No.
Matt Leinart Yes I like him a lot. Of course again, you are comparing Carr to every QB to come out down the block which is a bit unfair. At the time, he was the best available. Leinart is better than most of the QBs in all of the NFL
Jay Cutler What has he done? He's erractic. He has not shown much of anything. Took the reins of a playoff caliber Broncos team and missed the playoffs. Woopie!

Might be one or two others, but those are the ones I can think of. That's eight. That represents 1/4 of all starting NFL QB's, and those are only the ones drafted after David Carr.

I don't really think it is a valid arguement. Not much for revisionist history and such. "What woulda happened if..." is the phrase uttered by many a team and fan who looses. We are what we are. He has been a part of our franchise and we haven't been real successful yet as a franchise. Hoepfully we will get better soon. Real soon.

Porky
03-07-2007, 11:10 AM
I don't really think it is a valid arguement. Not much for revisionist history and such. "What woulda happened if..." is the phrase uttered by many a team and fan who looses. We are what we are. He has been a part of our franchise and we haven't been real successful yet as a franchise. Hoepfully we will get better soon. Real soon.

We will agree to disagree then. I feel any of those QB's would have been better than Carr for 5 years given the parameters of playing with the same group of players and coaches. Sounds like you are a typical Carr excuse maker. Ya, when Jim Brown comes out of retirement, along with Munchak and Matthews, and Jerry Rice, maybe he can perform. We get it already.

thunderkyss
03-07-2007, 11:16 AM
Exactly. What was the difference of Carr at the begining of this season and the end? Charles Spencer. I believe if Charles Spencer had not gone down, we would have been 8-8.

Except Charles Spencer only played 1 game, and 1 Qtr with us in '06. Salaam has been Manning that spot since the second Qtr of Game 2.

Hervoyel
03-07-2007, 11:17 AM
I seem to remember Banks winning one, losing one, and leaving the third after injuring his hand(?). Carr came in with a still-injured shoulder, and the game was pretty much won by D. Davis.


It's true he did leave that game after breaking his hand on a defenders helmet. David came into that game a got the win by toughing it out and running the ball when necessary. As you said Domanick Davis had a lot to do with that win (along with a terrible Falcons offense that didn't have Vick in the first half).

Could Tony have won that game if he hadn't broken his hand? Sure. He had a 79.5 passer rating (and we all know how important that is) at the time he left. He was 8 out of 14 for a hundred yards and that was as good or better than the majority of outings from David Carr with a half of work.

If Davis did most of the work that day then it was likely to end the same way IMO. Nobody ever said that David Carr lacked guts. I'm just saying that he lacked something else. The ability to play QB at a high level in the NFL.

mike230765
03-07-2007, 11:25 AM
In 2002 David Carr took a beating because he didn't have a line that was good enough to protect him and he didn't have the experience at this level to protect himself. Tony Banks would have easily exceeded David Carr's results in 2002 for no other reason than that he had 6 years of experience prior to the Texans playing their first game.

In 2003 Banks came in and played in 7 games. He threw 5 TD's and 3 picks and an 86.6 QB rating. He was also 2-1 in games he started that year while playing with the exact same offense that David Carr was working with.

Tony Banks did better in the exact same situation that David Carr was in and I don't think you will find many people who will disagree that there have been better free agent QB's available since 2002 than Tony Banks.

All of them, almost to a man could have improved on David Carr's performance.



Didn't Carr get hurt and then Banks came in and got hurt also. If Carr was not as tough as he is then it would not seem as bad because he gets all the sacks when most other guy get hurt and spread the sacks to the back-up qb's.


Don't get me wrong....i am getting tired of carr myself but it is not all his fault. I honestly don't know why he signed again with the Texans after the beatings he has taken.......i like the fight in him but he needs some line help.

By the way i am excited about green being the last line of defense for whichever qb is back there next year.

thunderkyss
03-07-2007, 11:36 AM
I don't really think it is a valid arguement. Not much for revisionist history and such. "What woulda happened if..." is the phrase uttered by many a team and fan who looses. We are what we are. He has been a part of our franchise and we haven't been real successful yet as a franchise. Hoepfully we will get better soon. Real soon.

While I think it is stupid to compare Carr to any of those guys, because the fact is we don't know what they would have done, and have not seen most of them in situations similar to Carr's.

But...

Carson Palmer: Before his injury, I've never seen anybody work a pocket the way he does. It's very hard to say what kind of success he would have had, but it's pretty easy to see he is better at avoiding a sack than David. Statue or not.

Eli Manning: I am not an Eli Manning fan. But against the Eagles, with his team down, despite being sacked 9 times, he brought his team back with exceptional QB play in the 4th to tie the game, and won it in OT. NOt Tiki Barber.. not Plaxico Burress, or the disappearing Jeremy Shockey... Eli Manning had a great game. IT was like he said, "Ok you want to keep knocking me down, I'm gonna punch you in the gut with these TDs....." & not continue to get his butt beat, but fight back, and win.

Phillip Rivers?? Surely as good a prospect, but who knows what he is even capable of?? I'm not so sure he can take the beating Carr has, and get back up.

Ben Rothlisberger: Should be pretty easy to say that he can avoid a sack much better than Carr. It should also be pretty clear that if he didn't do what he did, the Steelers wouldn't have won a Super Bowl. True, other players stepped up. But so did Ben.

Alex Smith?? um?? I'm not convinced he was even as good a prospect as David. I haven't watched enough of his game to say yeah or neah.

Vince: He's pretty good at avoiding sacks now, I don't see why that would change in the future.

Lienart?? He did as well as Warner in the same situation, so that says something... to me. would he have done better in Houston?? I haven't seen anything that says definitely yes, but I've got every reason to believe he couldn't have done worse.

Cutler: Still, not a fan. I think David's going to look like a HOFer compared to Jay. But that's me. I only saw two games, he looked scared, he played scared.

afcman
03-07-2007, 12:18 PM
Doesn't change the fact that 5 years into this, we need to start worrying about winning football games, and not rehabing our broken QB.

If Kubiak wants to keep David on the bench until he's ready, I'm fine with that. I don't care about the money.

But I'm ready for winning to be the top priority when my team takes the field on Sunday.

good post.

SESupergenius
03-07-2007, 12:25 PM
All you need to know about Tony Banks' superior abilities is in his final game where he single handedly threw picks to lose the game.

as far as Banks outplaying Carr, go look at the sample size.

afcman
03-07-2007, 12:30 PM
Cutler: Still, not a fan.

Being from TN, I watch him alot. I liked what I saw from him alot more than Brady. Denver put him in too soon. I actually wanted him or Lienart over Young or Bush.

However because of our OL and it's history I think Young would have been great for us. :deadhorse

Eli Manning: I am not an Eli Manning fan. IT was like he said, "Ok you want to keep knocking me down, I'm gonna punch you in the gut with these TDs....." & not continue to get his butt beat, but fight back, and win

Good point.

Hervoyel
03-07-2007, 12:38 PM
All you need to know about Tony Banks' superior abilities is in his final game where he single handedly threw picks to lose the game.

as far as Banks outplaying Carr, go look at the sample size.

It's the only sample we got so there it is. Saying the sample size doesn't matter makes sense on one level and I understand that. At the same time using a sample that small is just as reasonable as looking at nobody but David Carr taking snaps and saying "Nobody else could have done any better" which is what we are talking about right now. That "claim" is even less plausible since it's based on nothing but sentiment and blind affection. The (admittedly small) available data from our only real alternative in that time frame contradicts it.

kcwilson
03-07-2007, 01:16 PM
The results speak for themselves. We need to move on. It's just the way it is.

I hear and read a lot of talk from other teams saying how they like Carr.... Well, where are they if he's available? If they REALLY wanted him they'd make a deal work. Otherwise we can just hang on to him as a backup for the time being since we're paying him.

May be sad to say, but I don't think he's much better than a really good backup now.

My belief is that teams that know a guy is available via trade are not in a hurry to wisk that player away. With free agency happening and more cuts happening as teams fill holes with free agents, there isn't a sense of urgency to acquire via trade. That isn't to say they don't happen, but in Cleveland's case, they probably talked over signing Garcia and others, and now are going to review their options via the draft.

After free agency fills a few holes, the NEED factor to fill holes on your team players a little role with who you take in the draft and what value is there. If Cleveland feels that they don't need AP because of free agent signings, etc. they might be more apt to trade down with us for Carr and then draft a qb to develop... .what if they like Stanton more than Quinn? There are just so many permutations based on the type of player one needs/has/signs, etc.

basically, with draft and free agency, you don't need to sacrifice anything in a trade, and once those draft needs/wants and free agency dries up, you might see a little more posturing about a trade.

In summation, it is still quite early in the game.

Double Barrel
03-07-2007, 02:17 PM
Someone, anyone, please enlighten me on which QB available since 2002 would have come in here with what Carr has been surrounded with (Front Office, Coaches and Offensive Teammates) and would have posted better results. Any sane QB would have gotten out of town before resigning for more punishment. I think Kubiak's arrival helped him. A big dose of coaching consistancy and some time could be help us see why he was the #1 pick. I think all you Carr bashers are in for a big let down because Carr will be the starter next season. Ramsey and Rosenfels will make key backups.

David Carr is not an elite QB. This is not a criticism, but just the way it is. Heck 90% of NFL QBs are not considered elite, so it's the majority of them.

That being said, he's a QB that could succeed with a strong team around him, carrying their own weight, and an offensive design that minimizes the dependency on the QB position.

Think Trent Dilfer with the Ravens or Brad Johnson with the Bucs. Both were on teams with dominant defenses, solid running games, great offensive lines, and gameplans that did not require the QB to be a playmaker. Both of these QBs won't be in the HoF, but that doesn't matter when they both have Super Bowl Championship rings.

Did the Texans make a mistake in starting a rookie QB behind an untested offense? Of course.

Did the 250+ sacks in 5 years take it's toll on David Carr's mentality and reflexes on the field? Yeah, it's pretty obvious.

So the fault does not necessarily lie with DC himself, but assigning blame does no good (other than learning from past mistakes).

The problem we have is a middle-of-the-road QB on a team that does not have the talent to carry his weight. And we probably won't have that level of talent for another year or two.

What do we do in the meantime? Shop our QB, or at least try to. But the asking price is too high and nobody is buying. Upward and onward to Plan B, which is to keep Carr on the roster, make him compete for the job in TC, and try to acquire as much talent as we can to build a good, consistent running game and a stout defense. Gameplan to minimize the dependence on the QB. We beat the Colts with this mentality, and I think we can find success with it, too.

threetoedpete
03-07-2007, 02:35 PM
I don't think anybody will argue with the fact he got dealt a crappy hand, a lot of people just think that new surroundings would be good for him, and a new face of the franchise would be good for the Texans.

Agreed. Do we have to pull the scab off this once again. Good greif how we've picked the bones of this canadver. There's nothing there any more but catledge and bone. Let's move on please. No Mass. Yeah he got a raw deal. It's going to cost to retool. It's going to hurt worse if he gets the SB start before we do...yada, yada, yada. Life isn't fair. Walt Disney wasn't God. Let's move on. He is what he is. If he starts next year fine. If he doesn't, Fine. He's not going to get another contract here either way. This season, next he's done.

SESupergenius
03-07-2007, 03:09 PM
David Carr is not an elite QB. This is not a criticism, but just the way it is. Heck 90% of NFL QBs are not considered elite, so it's the majority of them.

That being said, he's a QB that could succeed with a strong team around him, carrying their own weight, and an offensive design that minimizes the dependency on the QB position.

Think Trent Dilfer with the Ravens or Brad Johnson with the Bucs. Both were on teams with dominant defenses, solid running games, great offensive lines, and gameplans that did not require the QB to be a playmaker. Both of these QBs won't be in the HoF, but that doesn't matter when they both have Super Bowl Championship rings.

Did the Texans make a mistake in starting a rookie QB behind an untested offense? Of course.

Did the 250+ sacks in 5 years take it's toll on David Carr's mentality and reflexes on the field? Yeah, it's pretty obvious.

So the fault does not necessarily lie with DC himself, but assigning blame does no good (other than learning from past mistakes).

The problem we have is a middle-of-the-road QB on a team that does not have the talent to carry his weight. And we probably won't have that level of talent for another year or two.

What do we do in the meantime? Shop our QB, or at least try to. But the asking price is too high and nobody is buying. Upward and onward to Plan B, which is to keep Carr on the roster, make him compete for the job in TC, and try to acquire as much talent as we can to build a good, consistent running game and a stout defense. Gameplan to minimize the dependence on the QB. We beat the Colts with this mentality, and I think we can find success with it, too.

Stop that! or you'll be labeled a Carr Lover from here on out.


But seriously, that is the point in Keeping Carr this year....There isn't an upgrade available unless it's Plummer somehow down the road. I figured that Carr had at least 2 years in a new system, not one and done. Even though he didn't have the great stats towards then end last year, I thought that if you brought in someone to compete with him in this years training camp you'd get the most out of the QB postion regardless of who is named the started for 07. I just don't see anyone out there that will make this spot an 'upgrade'.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2007, 03:09 PM
Walt Disney wasn't God.

Huh, what? I was with you until this line.

You're just being a hater. Walt Disney is and always was and always will be God. Just deal with it.

TEXANFAN23435
03-07-2007, 10:11 PM
Man, wasn't Plummer in the same boat coming out of Arizona? Kubes managed to find the QB everyone thought he was going to be but it took season 2 to shake the damage incurred while he was leading the Cardinals.

We truly have no other viable options at this point. Pay stupid money for a fair to midland QB and then spend the next 3-5 years kicking ourselves or spend a pick on a QB this year and let's see if Carr can carry last years early QB rating success for a whole season.

With a running game in place, this position is now a strength from starters to back-ups. If Dayne's success at the end of the season is any indication as to how the line was picking up the new schemes then Green, Davis and Dayne give as 3-Headed depth monster. Teams will definately have to respect this running game.

My thinking is we seem to be willing to plug a few holes on defense via FA. This I do not mind.

I'd like to see the first four picks go towards the offense. At #8 this year, we can truly find a top compliment to AJ. If we could swap positions and possibly include a current RB and possibly a Rd5 or later pick to get that chance to secure Johnson, I'm all for it. If it can't be done, Jarrett or Ginn, Jr. should be there at #8. I'd prefer Jarrett because of his size and reliable hands. Rds 2 & 3 could be an OL & DB. I'd like to think Kolb could still be on the board in Rd4 or later.

With the running game in place, it's time to put a WR crew together that can get some respect.