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Runner
03-06-2007, 06:19 PM
Here are some thoughts for discussion if anyone is interested.

Running Back – the Green pick-up is OK with me. The Texans need a running back that can give us a couple of years of production, and Green can be that guy. The remaining backs on the roster are good for depth as the younger ones develop their games. Given Green’s years in the league, I think they will all have a chance to get a significant number of carries.

Fullback – I think they should only carry one on the roster, and that should be Leach. It is fairly easy to pick up a fullback if he goes down with injury or doesn’t perform. I think it was a huge waste of a roster spot last year when they were carrying two fullbacks or a 4th tight end/fullback on the active roster.

Receiver – I am disappointed that Moulds is no longer here. I thought that receiver was an area they could have let ride for a year as they fixed some of the other holes on the team. I am not as confident that Walter will work out as a number two receiver as the Texans staff is. I’m not sure they are either – it is likely that their statements are PR spin after Moulds asked to be let go. It will be interesting to see if Mathis finally stays healthy and puts his nose to the grindstone and becomes a legitimate receiving threat. If not, he’ll be gone next year.

Tight End – I think we have two keepers on the roster in Daniels and Putzier. I think it is time to cut ties with Breuner; he is primarily a blocker although he can have a couple of surprise catches each year. I’d rather have a third dual threat person in that position. They can always use a tackle at tight end if they need the extra blocking on short yardage. I think a vet minimum tight end can be picked up to fill the third tight end roster spot, and then he’d have to earn his playing time. Daniels and Putzier would take most of snaps.

Center – there are three centers on the team right now and none of them strike me as being very good in the short or long term. I don’t think Flanagan adds much on the field, and roster spots are too valuable to waste on a locker room guy. Hodgdon has had a couple of chances and I haven’t been too impressed yet. He’s probably OK as a back-up, or maybe continued playing time would let him develop into a solid center. That leaves McKinney. While his pass blocking is suspect, I think he is the best run blocker the Texans have at center in their system. Unless we make a key pick-up in the draft or free agency, it looks like McKinney again. The wild card here is Weary – he has played center before, but he doesn’t get any work there now. Maybe that changes this year.

Guard – our best position on the line, which isn’t saying much. Pitts looks good most of the time, but he has his stretches where he doesn’t look so hot. He is commonly referred to here as “the best lineman on the team”, but what does that really mean? He has been a key component on one of the continually worst lines in the league. Maybe he should carry more fault than he is given – I don’t know. Weary looks good at times and bad at times. Unless a guard falls in the Texans’ lap, I’d be OK with going with them as starters and concentrating on bigger needs.

Tackle – our worst position on the line. The problem is we need two good ones and a good backup. I’d prefer two good back-ups, but more on that later. Winston has the best chance of being the real deal for us this year. He had some significant playing time last year, and that can only help his development. I’d say he’s a good tackle that may make a few mistakes as he continues gaining experience. That’s it for the good news. Spencer may or may not come back from his injury – reports conflict and seem to cover the whole spectrum between “he’s fine” and “he’s done”. The D. Davis/Williams lesson from last year tells the Texans they had better not count on Spencer making it back as a solid starter at the beginning of the year. The team likes Salaam as a swing tackle back-up, but I’d prefer a back-up left tackle and a back-up right tackle. I’m not sure Bedell makes the roster this year; if he does the Texans didn’t fix much on the line this off-season.

Quarterback – I think Rosenfels will be the starter with Carr as the back-up. I would prefer they trade or even cut Carr. They would then need to draft a good QB and try to find a low end veteran back-up. As far as getting rid of Carr, I think it is time for this from both the Texans’ and Carr’s perspectives. I would not be surprised to see Carr go to another team and with a fresh start carry more than is share of the weight. I don’t think better players around him would have to carry him; I think better players would allow him to play at a high level.

Roster Spots – I hope the Texans improve their use of valuable roster spots this season. I don’t like to see a roster spot taken by a player because “he’s good in the locker room” if he can’t also contribute on the field. This problem is doubled because it also seems like it is used as an excuse to gather Denver and Green Bay players on the team to keep the coaches comfortable. As far as roster spots go, I also don’t see the sense in leaving our already weak offensive line weaker because of lack of depth. As borderline as the back-ups are, it would be wise to carry an extra lineman compared to last year. It makes more sense to me to carry two reserve tackles on the roster than four tight ends or two fullbacks like they did last year.

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Filling the Gaps

Running Back – ok for now.

Fullback – keep Leach.

Tight end – find a vet minimum free agent if the Texans haven’t already identified a late round sleeper in the draft.

Receiver – draft or sign a decent veteran. I’ll put this one down a s mid-round draftee.

Center – draft or find a good vet free agent that isn’t too expensive. It is unlikely they’ll find a reasonably priced vet that can contribute more that what they have there now. They’ll probably have to draft a mid-round center or get a great deal of improvement out of Hodgdon.

Guard –go with the status quo and look at vet minimum players in training camp, or draft a late round guard to develop.

Tackle – use a high, preferably first round pick, on a tackle. First or second round minimum depending on what they do about quarterback.

Quarterback – second round pick.

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Summary

Low end free agent - tight end

High Draft pick – left tackle, quarterback

Mid-Round Draft Pick – center, receiver

That takes care of four of the seven draft picks, and the players better contribute early for the sake of the Texans. That leaves three picks and some free agent money for defense.

Malloy
03-06-2007, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the input. I agree with pretty much everything you say, even your view on the whole Moulds affair. I think that this may very well be the way that this whole thing plays out.

Navy_Chris
03-06-2007, 06:46 PM
I totally agree except for WR. If Robert Meachem is there in the 2nd round, I'd like to draft him. If not, then Chansi Stuckey in the mid-rounds is cool with me.

Runner
03-06-2007, 09:44 PM
If Robert Meachem is there in the 2nd round, I'd like to draft him.

So in my plan what do you give up to do this - the 1st or 2nd round LT or QB? I think either of these needs trump our need for a receiver.

TexansLucky13
03-06-2007, 09:54 PM
So in my plan what do you give up to do this - the 1st or 2nd round LT or QB? I think either of these needs trump our need for a receiver.

I think we can find a decent QB in the 3rd. Troy Smith or Kevin Kolb should be available then. If they aren't, I will be highly surprised.

nunusguy
03-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Great stuff Runner !
I'm particularly interested in your thoughts on this years Draft as a means
to perhaps finally solve what has been our endless OLT problem ?
What's your thoughts on Levi Brown ? Is he worth our #8, and if not perhaps he's worth a low or midteens first round pick if we trade back for an additional
pick as I hope we do.
Opinions about Brown are all over the place. Lot of people think Joe Staley is really a better fit for our ZB system and therefor a better prospect for us than Brown ?
Then there's tackles like Doug Free who will likely be taken after the second
round, maybe even into the second day who would be projects but have great upside who could be had muc less expensively ? Of course maybe the biggest problem with a Doug Free is we need help at LT this year.
Of course all bets are off for Charles Spencer until we know more about his rehab, but do you think there's any chance for Eric Winston at LT ? That's his old college position, and it's now been 2 full years back since he blew out his knee in '04.

Texans_Chick
03-06-2007, 10:56 PM
Summary

Low end free agent - tight end

High Draft pick – left tackle, quarterback

Mid-Round Draft Pick – center, receiver

That takes care of four of the seven draft picks, and the players better contribute early for the sake of the Texans. That leaves three picks and some free agent money for defense.

Thanks for writing an actual football post that doesn't grind axes but just tries to figure out what the deal is.

Personally, I think there are so many needs on both sides of the ball that the focus really should be on getting the BPAs at each turn of the draft. The left tackle or qb we need may not be someone worth taking high this year.

I feel you shouldn't mortgage the future on FAs that ain't worth it, or choose for need in years the players may not be there.

Thanks again for the thoughtful thread.

Texans Horror
03-07-2007, 09:22 AM
I used to think LT was the first-round priority. Circumstances and scouting reports are swaying my mind, though.

Circumstances - Joe Thomas won't fall to number 8.

Scouting Reports - Levi Brown's scouting reports (here (http://www.gopsusports.com/Football/people/Player.cfm?rosterid=1926)and here (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/levi_brown.html))talk about what a big guy he is, but say that he lacks speed and agility. Besides, they admit, he is probably better suited for right tackle. He doesn't sound like a ZBS-type of tackle.

Somebody mentioned Doug Free. As a Northern Illinois alum, taking a Huskie sounds great. As a Texans fan, it sounds fine. He sounds better suited for the position than Brown, though you have to question the level of competition he faced in the MAC.

Staley is a quick, smart tackle, and probably the best fit in this class. I have nothing against this pick and think he is likely the tackle the Texans take.

Texans Horror
03-07-2007, 09:28 AM
I think we can find a decent QB in the 3rd. Troy Smith or Kevin Kolb should be available then. If they aren't, I will be highly surprised.

There are two good reasons to take Troy Smith.

1 - He is an awesome quarterback and will be an awesome quarterback. Great arm and excellent mobility.

2 - Since the Texans don't sign players who want to play for them, how about signing a player who wants to play somewhere else?

However, I don't think the Texans will take him because of the bias due to size.

Texans Horror
03-07-2007, 09:38 AM
Here are some thoughts for discussion if anyone is interested.


Center – there are three centers on the team right now and none of them strike me as being very good in the short or long term. I don’t think Flanagan adds much on the field, and roster spots are too valuable to waste on a locker room guy. Hodgdon has had a couple of chances and I haven’t been too impressed yet. He’s probably OK as a back-up, or maybe continued playing time would let him develop into a solid center. That leaves McKinney. While his pass blocking is suspect, I think he is the best run blocker the Texans have at center in their system. Unless we make a key pick-up in the draft or free agency, it looks like McKinney again. The wild card here is Weary – he has played center before, but he doesn’t get any work there now. Maybe that changes this year.

Tackle – our worst position on the line. The problem is we need two good ones and a good backup. I’d prefer two good back-ups, but more on that later. Winston has the best chance of being the real deal for us this year. He had some significant playing time last year, and that can only help his development. I’d say he’s a good tackle that may make a few mistakes as he continues gaining experience. That’s it for the good news. Spencer may or may not come back from his injury – reports conflict and seem to cover the whole spectrum between “he’s fine” and “he’s done”. The D. Davis/Williams lesson from last year tells the Texans they had better not count on Spencer making it back as a solid starter at the beginning of the year. The team likes Salaam as a swing tackle back-up, but I’d prefer a back-up left tackle and a back-up right tackle. I’m not sure Bedell makes the roster this year; if he does the Texans didn’t fix much on the line this off-season.

Roster Spots – I hope the Texans improve their use of valuable roster spots this season. I don’t like to see a roster spot taken by a player because “he’s good in the locker room” if he can’t also contribute on the field. This problem is doubled because it also seems like it is used as an excuse to gather Denver and Green Bay players on the team to keep the coaches comfortable. As far as roster spots go, I also don’t see the sense in leaving our already weak offensive line weaker because of lack of depth. As borderline as the back-ups are, it would be wise to carry an extra lineman compared to last year. It makes more sense to me to carry two reserve tackles on the roster than four tight ends or two fullbacks like they did last year.



Some great stuff in here. A lot of the offensive linemen I think would make great depth, but are not starting quality. I'm talking about Flanagan, McKinney, and Hodgdon, specifically. I don't think all three of them make it to the next season. I suspect Hodgdon would be the one left out.

I think the Texans need to fill the left tackle position. They won't rely on Spencer being back. FA looking the way it is, I suspect they will draft a left tackle. That leaves Salaam and Spencer backing up. They might even think about moving Spencer to left tackle and Winston to guard. Who knows, but they have lots of options once they draft that left tackle.

The Texans have put a lot of emphasis on the locker room. I think it is necessary to a certain point. They are rebuilding a team and trying to develop a winning persona. The locker room people help with that. But the Texans have proven they can win against the big team and can win more than one game at a time, so I am ready to stop all this locker room crud. If the player can't cut it on the field, he can't cut it on the team.

DRAMA
03-07-2007, 10:28 AM
Good stuff - I agree with you on many of your points.

Very nice!

Vinny
03-07-2007, 10:34 AM
Thanks for writing an actual football post that doesn't grind axes but just tries to figure out what the deal is.

Personally, I think there are so many needs on both sides of the ball that the focus really should be on getting the BPAs at each turn of the draft. The left tackle or qb we need may not be someone worth taking high this year.

I feel you shouldn't mortgage the future on FAs that ain't worth it, or choose for need in years the players may not be there.

Thanks again for the thoughtful thread.ditto...thanks for the good thread from myself as well. We need more of these. BPA's beat "the best of the rest at a need position" when it comes to stocking a team. Pick for need, and you end up reach-picking for need over and over most of the time (see Travis Johnson and Jason Babin)

coachdent
03-07-2007, 10:45 AM
There are two good reasons to take Troy Smith.

1 - He is an awesome quarterback and will be an awesome quarterback. Great arm and excellent mobility.

2 - Since the Texans don't sign players who want to play for them, how about signing a player who wants to play somewhere else?

However, I don't think the Texans will take him because of the bias due to size.

1 - Troy Smith was an excellent COLLEGE quarterback. He has a fairly ordinary arm and very good mobility. The jury is most definitely out on whether he will be able to translate into a viable NFL QB. My gut reastion is no he will not.

Smith's arm strength is generated primarily when he can step into a ball and really fire it. The analogy would be an outfielder who takes a crow hop to put mustard on the ball. So many balls in the NFL must be thrown without having the ability to step into the throw. He does not have this kind of arm strength and relies too much on his lower body to generate power in his throws. This is what makes Russell so attractive to NFL scouts: his ability to throw the ball off his back foot with a flick of the wrist and be accurate.

2 - Smith is auditioning for EVERY NFL team and wants to play for everyone. Do the math...if he can get the Texans to draft him at 8, he will stand to get a ton more money than if he slips to the second round. He won't go in the first round. If the Texans chose him at 8, that would be a huge mistake. The vieled VY message was understood, but not applicable here.

The Texans not taking Troy is not a decision based on "bias". It is rooted in facts. He is too small. That does not translate well in the NFL.

I would lean towards Kolb in the third round or moving up with a second pick in the second round to pick up Kolb. Russell will be gone and I am not much of a Quinn fan, especially in lieu of the other needs we have to be addressed: OT, Safety, WR.

cuppacoffee
03-07-2007, 10:47 AM
"PR spin after Moulds asked to be let go"

I was wondering about the Moulds release.

Did he in fact ask to be released or is this just the consensus opinion.

HOU-TEX
03-07-2007, 10:50 AM
Nice ideas. I agree with you drafting a receiver in the mid rounds. The receiver position appears to be very deep this year. I'm kind of on the fence with your first pick. Although it wouldn't upset me drafting Levi, but the Tackle position is also pretty deep this year. I'd rather grab mutiple Olinemen from the middle rounds out. IMO, we should go defense with our first pick. Overall, with the number of holes we have on both sides of the ball I think it'd be hard to make a bad choice this year.:winky:

jerek
03-07-2007, 11:07 AM
I like this thread but I would've liked to see defense incorporated as well, since our defensive needs are relevant to overall draft/cap strategy.

I have only a few comments.

I think David Carr will still be here next year and I think he will basically compete for and win the starting job through camp, for reasons I've stated elsewhere. I think it's possible we look at drafting Quinn if he falls to us at #8 but we will not trade up for him or look to acquire Garcia or any of the other names that have been liberally tossed around here. I think it's also possible we look to draft a second-day QB but I just don't see us drafting any QB if Ramsey is signed.

I too am disappointed that Moulds is no longer here as I believe his relative lack of production was due more to Carr's deficiencies. I too hope that Mathis will develop his game as a WR because we desperately need his speed out there, and I'm not confident about Walter as a #2--IMO he is a #3 at very best and I was not enthused with his play last year.

I still favor Landry for the first pick but other than that I agree generally with your draft strategy.

nunusguy
03-07-2007, 11:09 AM
"PR spin after Moulds asked to be let go"
I was wondering about the Moulds release.
Did he in fact ask to be released or is this just the consensus opinion.
It's clearly a Kubiak faux pax, whether or not Moulds wanted out.
To be sure not as big of a Kubiak screw-up as what he did with last years
#1, but a medium-to-small-range screw-up. But with RS now involved, personnel decisions already are looking wiser and more prudent. My question
now is, does Mike Sherman add or subtract from that process because he is
clearly also very involved ?

srstex
03-07-2007, 11:35 AM
I like the Oline talk, it has been a glaring problem since year one, with that I think Winston is the man if Spencer can't go. His work the last 5 games at RT was good to very good, and with experience at LT, he should probably start preseason through game one, let Salaam back him up, if he can't protect his spot, he is our best RT, so no harm, move him back and start Salaam, draft a LT in round 2/3 and build again. On defense Babin led our team in sacks last year ( nothing to brag about), but when you look at our LB's Ryans & Greenwood both had over 100 tackles, could this be like the Raven D where the Dline is suppose to take the Oline out so the LB can make the plays ? I have studied every draft board to date and man there are a LOT of changes from day to day, but in looking at the talent everyone of the players listed as top 15 players look to be good starters from day one no matter where they play. I see 5 good S/CB, at least 5 DT/DE, 3 LB, 1QB, and 4-6 RB, this should be a good test for Rick Smith and Kubiak, just think if we can pick up players like Winston/Spencer in the third again, man that would be gravy.

Texans Horror
03-07-2007, 11:50 AM
1 - Troy Smith was an excellent COLLEGE quarterback. He has a fairly ordinary arm and very good mobility. The jury is most definitely out on whether he will be able to translate into a viable NFL QB. My gut reastion is no he will not.

Smith's arm strength is generated primarily when he can step into a ball and really fire it. The analogy would be an outfielder who takes a crow hop to put mustard on the ball. So many balls in the NFL must be thrown without having the ability to step into the throw. He does not have this kind of arm strength and relies too much on his lower body to generate power in his throws. This is what makes Russell so attractive to NFL scouts: his ability to throw the ball off his back foot with a flick of the wrist and be accurate.

2 - Smith is auditioning for EVERY NFL team and wants to play for everyone. Do the math...if he can get the Texans to draft him at 8, he will stand to get a ton more money than if he slips to the second round. He won't go in the first round. If the Texans chose him at 8, that would be a huge mistake. The vieled VY message was understood, but not applicable here.

The Texans not taking Troy is not a decision based on "bias". It is rooted in facts. He is too small. That does not translate well in the NFL.

Troy Smith and Tedd Ginn Jr. have publicly said they wanted to play for Cleveland. AP has publicly said he wants to play for the Texans, though he has not been as obvious about it as VY was last year. I was just playing around with the scenarios. I don't think Troy will come here, and I don't think he is worth the number eight pick in the draft.

I won't argue with you on his ability to throw from stepping in or from the back of his heal - I haven't watched that closely nor do I intend to.

Vinny
03-07-2007, 12:06 PM
Troy Smith = Shaun King

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/12/24/photos/bucs-king-scramble-455.jpg

Maddict5
03-07-2007, 12:17 PM
So in my plan what do you give up to do this - the 1st or 2nd round LT or QB? I think either of these needs trump our need for a receiver.


im a big fan of wr in the 2nd- its a really deep class this year and if any of meachem, bowe or rice fall we probably should take them- qb and ot both seem pretty weak in value terms at #39

plus if we do land plummer.....

El Amigo Invisible
03-07-2007, 12:25 PM
Troy Smith = Shaun King

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/12/24/photos/bucs-king-scramble-455.jpg

I disagree.He is better than Shaun King and he will be a lot better. I am not going to stick my neck out for him like I did for Vince but he should be a decent QB in the nfl .

U4ikrob
03-07-2007, 12:28 PM
Good post - lots of good perspective on the Offense positions. Would liek to see anothe ron Defense - we certainly can use some other topics than the QB hot thread of the day.

The Moulds deal is certainly a head scratcher - 4 year deal too - thats going to hurt on the cap side too. Kubes said it was a football decision - I cant say it wasnt after watching Moulds effort on a few plays last year. Good guy, but didnt show up in games much. We can get a much cheaper possesion receiver IMO.

Would like to see them pickup Ryan Kalil from USC in the second to help solidy the center spot. IMO Good guy, good size, played against top tier competition and used to running a pro offense line.

nunusguy
03-07-2007, 12:50 PM
Would like to see them pickup Ryan Kalil from USC in the second to help solidy the center spot. IMO Good guy, good size, played against top tier competition and used to running a pro offense line.

He's all of that. A very good prospect, but as the poster pointed out at the head of his thread the interior of the OLine is one our strengths, relatively speaking and therefor using a first day pick, let alone the second round pick IMO is just very unwise. Having said that, I'd say the most likely position we use the first or second round pick is OT.

Alex
03-07-2007, 01:27 PM
I've already post it:

QB: David Carr, Sage Rosenfels, Brandon Van Pelt, Quinton Porter

Honestly I think that the best thing to do is trade Carr for a 4th round pick and sign Ramsay. Also draft a QB in 2nd or 3rd round like Troy Smith, Drew Stanton, Kevin Kolb, Trent Edwards or Jordan Palmer. Rosenfels and Ramsay will complete for the starting spot and the rookie will learn behind them during the year. Drop Van Pelt and gives Porter a spot on the practice squad.

RB: Ahman Green, Domanick Williams, Wali Lundy, Chris Taylor, Samkon Gabo

First of all drop Williams (Davis). He had good years with the Texans but his time is done (because of injuries...). Secondly don't resign Dayne. I think that the Texans have two great young RB in Lundy & Taylor who can make the same job as well. I think that Gado will not make the squad this year. He is a good player but he don't take his chance last year.

FB: Vonta Leech (RFA), Jameel Cook

Resign Leech. He proved last year that he was a great leading blocker for our RB. He and Cook will make a good job for us at the FB position. Cook is a better receiver and Leech a better blocker.

WR: Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Jerome Mathis, David Anderson

With Stallworth out of the market (he will sign with Pats or resign with the Eagles), the Texans must try to sign Antonio Bryant. Despite some problems out of the field, he is a very good receiver in his prime and will be a real #2 WR. Moulds last year, was not able to stretch the defense like Bryant can do.
The Texans must also look to take a big physical receiver like Rhema McKnight, Dallas Barker or Jacoby Jones in mid round.

TE: Owen Daniels, Jeb Putzier, Ben Steele, Joel Dreessen

Daniels and Putzier should be a good duo of receiving Tight End. But their weakness is the blocking ability. The Texans must look to Matt Spaeth (superb blocker) or Matt Herrian as blocking TE in the draft. Dreessen and Steele will fight for a roster spot.

OT: Ephraim Salaam, Charles Spencer, Eric Winston

Spencer and Winston are two good young blocker but I don't know if they are ready to be starter. Durability is also a question mark for Spencer. Salaam is good but he's not a long term solution. Jordan Black or Marc Colombo must be attractive UFA for the Texans. In other way, they can look in the draft for players like Tony Ugoh, James Marthen, Ryan Harris or Doug Free in the 3rd or 4th round. Chester Pitts can also be an option for the LT spot.

OG: Chester Pitts, Steve McKinney, Fred Weary, Chris White, Scott Jackson

Pitts and McKinney will enter in the Training Camp as the starters but Fred Weary is a serious contender for the spot at right. But Pitts will maybe play as LT and McKinney as center if Flanagan is still injured. Cooper Carlisle could be a great addition to give depth at this position. Chris White should be on the roster as center/right guard.

C: Mike Flanagan, Drew Hodgden, Chris White

All is about durability and fitness for Mike Flanagan. If he stays healty he could be an import piece for Texans offense. If he still injured, Steve McKinney should be the Texans's starter at this position. But maybe Hodgden can step up in training camp and became the starter.

TexansLucky13
03-07-2007, 01:35 PM
With Stallworth out of the market (he will sign with Pats or resign with the Eagles), the Texans must try to sign Antonio Bryant. Despite some problems out of the field, he is a very good receiver in his prime and will be a real #2 WR. Moulds last year, was not able to stretch the defense like Bryant can do.

The Texans don't normally go after guys with a history like Bryant's. I doubt he will wear a Texans uni.

But why not Kevin Curtis?

Texan_Bill
03-07-2007, 02:12 PM
With Stallworth out of the market (he will sign with Pats or resign with the Eagles), the Texans must try to sign Antonio Bryant. Despite some problems out of the field, he is a very good receiver in his prime and will be a real #2 WR. Moulds last year, was not able to stretch the defense like Bryant can do.
The Texans must also look to take a big physical receiver like Rhema McKnight, Dallas Barker or Jacoby Jones in mid round...

No Antonio Bryant... Everyone has already mentioned his off-field stuff, but remember when Aaron Glenn ran better routes than he did...

By the way, who is Joe Horn talking to, or has someone already signed him??

El Amigo Invisible
03-07-2007, 02:38 PM
No Antonio Bryant... Everyone has already mentioned his off-field stuff, but remember when Aaron Glenn ran better routes than he did...

By the way, who is Joe Horn talking to, or has someone already signed him??

Atlanta Falcons

threetoedpete
03-07-2007, 02:56 PM
OT: Ephraim Salaam, Charles Spencer, Eric Winston

Spencer and Winston are two good young blocker but I don't know if they are ready to be starter. Durability is also a question mark for Spencer. Salaam is good but he's not a long term solution. Jordan Black or Marc Colombo must be attractive UFA for the Texans. In other way, they can look in the draft for players like Tony Ugoh, James Marthen, Ryan Harris or Doug Free in the 3rd or 4th round. Chester Pitts can also be an option for the LT spot.


That was like fingger nails on the chaulk board to my ears. Isn't that basically what they've tried for five years running now ? Veteran free agents to patch in at OLT to move Pitts out of OLT ? All your draft picks will not start out of tallent. They may be forced, as with your Pitts solution, to start out of need. If that's the case...we'll be sitting prety in the '08 draft. Book it. I can stand it as long as you can. :snobord:


Overall great post. thanks

Double Barrel
03-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Good thread, Runner. We need more of these around here. :thumbup

texasguy346
03-07-2007, 04:26 PM
----------------------------------------------------------
Filling the Gaps

Running Back – ok for now.

Fullback – keep Leach.

Tight end – find a vet minimum free agent if the Texans haven’t already identified a late round sleeper in the draft.

Receiver – draft or sign a decent veteran. I’ll put this one down a s mid-round draftee.

Center – draft or find a good vet free agent that isn’t too expensive. It is unlikely they’ll find a reasonably priced vet that can contribute more that what they have there now. They’ll probably have to draft a mid-round center or get a great deal of improvement out of Hodgdon.

Guard –go with the status quo and look at vet minimum players in training camp, or draft a late round guard to develop.

Tackle – use a high, preferably first round pick, on a tackle. First or second round minimum depending on what they do about quarterback.

Quarterback – second round pick.



I agree with much of what you've said. I'm right with you on adding a dual threat TE either for the vet min or late in the draft. One TE prospect that I'd like the Texans to take a serious look at is Joe Newton from Oregon St. I imagine he'd still be around in the 5th or 6th, and he'd be great value that late in the draft. He could start out as the third TE, but I'd bet in a year or two he'd be challenging Jeb for the second TE spot.

I don't think that we have to pickup a QB in rounds 1 or 2, but I really like Drew Stanton out of Michigan St and most mocks have him going in the second. So I wouldn't be upset if we took a QB in the 2nd, but it would be a tough decision if a WR like Bowe was available as well.

You're dead on with everything else though. The tackle position is our most glaring weakness & something must be done to improve that position. I'm not crazy about the idea of a "swing tackle" being our starting LT when next season begins. If we don't we could be faced with a very ugly season no matter who is behind center.

Mr teX
03-07-2007, 04:30 PM
Thoughts on the offense?.................. we need some BAD!

run-david-run
03-07-2007, 04:48 PM
I totally agree except for WR. If Robert Meachem is there in the 2nd round, I'd like to draft him. If not, then Chansi Stuckey in the mid-rounds is cool with me.

No way Meachem is available in the second. He was a first round project before running a 4.36. He is pretty much a lock for the first round. Sydney Rice is probably our best bet for a top receiver to fall, although anything can happen.

Runner
03-07-2007, 06:33 PM
Personally, I think there are so many needs on both sides of the ball that the focus really should be on getting the BPAs at each turn of the draft.


Maybe some blend as a compromise - best available player that is an o-lineman, cornerback, or quarterback. Not if he's a linebacker. That sort of thing.

Runner
03-07-2007, 06:35 PM
2 - Since the Texans don't sign players who want to play for them, how about signing a player who wants to play somewhere else?



Funny. Very funny.

Runner
03-07-2007, 06:40 PM
I like this thread but I would've liked to see defense incorporated as well, since our defensive needs are relevant to overall draft/cap strategy.


Of course one has to look at both sides, but I think the offense is in much worse shape than the defense and I had to start somewhere. I'm considering a similar post on defense, and then maybe some sort of integration.

Besides, it makes my head hurt to look at all the Texans' deficiencies at once.

Runner
03-07-2007, 06:43 PM
I've already post it:



How many roster spots are you going to use on offense?

2BCF
03-07-2007, 06:59 PM
1 - Troy Smith was an excellent COLLEGE quarterback. He has a fairly ordinary arm and very good mobility. The jury is most definitely out on whether he will be able to translate into a viable NFL QB. My gut reastion is no he will not.

Smith's arm strength is generated primarily when he can step into a ball and really fire it. The analogy would be an outfielder who takes a crow hop to put mustard on the ball. So many balls in the NFL must be thrown without having the ability to step into the throw. He does not have this kind of arm strength and relies too much on his lower body to generate power in his throws. This is what makes Russell so attractive to NFL scouts: his ability to throw the ball off his back foot with a flick of the wrist and be accurate.

2 - Smith is auditioning for EVERY NFL team and wants to play for everyone. Do the math...if he can get the Texans to draft him at 8, he will stand to get a ton more money than if he slips to the second round. He won't go in the first round. If the Texans chose him at 8, that would be a huge mistake. The vieled VY message was understood, but not applicable here.

The Texans not taking Troy is not a decision based on "bias". It is rooted in facts. He is too small. That does not translate well in the NFL.

I would lean towards Kolb in the third round or moving up with a second pick in the second round to pick up Kolb. Russell will be gone and I am not much of a Quinn fan, especially in lieu of the other needs we have to be addressed: OT, Safety, WR.

He's the same size as Drew Brees.
And Troy's throwing style is better than Carr's, who has a tendency to throw the ball right at the D's helmets instead of over them.

Texans_Chick
03-07-2007, 07:25 PM
Maybe some blend as a compromise - best available player that is an o-lineman, corenerback, or quarterback. Not if he's a linebacker. That sort of thing.

I am not terribly comfortable with too many positions on the team, including linebacker.

I'd rather get a playa deluxe at every draft position, than the best guy we can find for our big big big big needs as opposed to just our big big big needs.

That being said, the Denver bias when Kubiak was there has typically been defense in the top rounds, system offense guys in lower rounds, unless there is The Guy they need in the upper rounds. Rick Smith values character but isn't against giving a guy a looksee even if he has a little hubbub in his past (Lionel Dalton). The Maurice Clarett pick was not his, and he argued against that.

FWIW.

Runner
03-07-2007, 08:40 PM
Great stuff Runner !
I'm particularly interested in your thoughts on this years Draft as a means
to perhaps finally solve what has been our endless OLT problem ?
What's your thoughts on Levi Brown ? Is he worth our #8, and if not perhaps he's worth a low or midteens first round pick if we trade back for an additional
pick as I hope we do.
Opinions about Brown are all over the place. Lot of people think Joe Staley is really a better fit for our ZB system and therefor a better prospect for us than Brown ?
Then there's tackles like Doug Free who will likely be taken after the second
round, maybe even into the second day who would be projects but have great upside who could be had muc less expensively ? Of course maybe the biggest problem with a Doug Free is we need help at LT this year.
Of course all bets are off for Charles Spencer until we know more about his rehab, but do you think there's any chance for Eric Winston at LT ? That's his old college position, and it's now been 2 full years back since he blew out his knee in '04.


There is something that makes me unusual on this board*. I am not very good at projecting how well college players will do once they move to the pros. I just don't watch enough college ball and I certainly don't do formal film study. I'm even worse at predicting what the Texans will do.

I think the Texans must make move on the line - who and if they really will are questions I just can't answer.


* What makes me unusual isn't that I can't project talent and success in the NFL; it is that I admit I can't. :shocked

Navy_Chris
03-07-2007, 08:42 PM
There is something that makes me unusual on this board*. I am not very good at projecting how well college players will do once they move to the pros. I just don't watch enough college ball and I certainly don't do formal film study. I'm even worse at predicting what the Texans will do.

I think the Texans must make move on the line - who and if they really will are questions I just can't answer.


* What makes me unusual isn't that I can't project talent and success; it is that I admit I can't. :shocked

I am absolutely amazed at the lack of attention our Offensive Line has gotten over the first 4 years of our existence! The O-Line is the bread and butter of any offense. For Bob and Charley to ignore that....2 slaps on the hand for that.

TwinSisters
03-07-2007, 08:50 PM
* What makes me unusual isn't that I can't project talent and success; it is that I admit I can't. :shocked

That's because you don't try hard enough. Just practice more. Heads Heads Heads... and you will be doing better than 16 salaried NFL GMs every year. ( maybe even more )

Runner
03-07-2007, 09:00 PM
That's because you don't try hard enough. Just practice more. Heads Heads Heads... and you will be doing better than 16 salaried NFL GMs every year. ( maybe even more )

The problem is I only count it as a success if I predict it before the draft. If I predict what I really meant a year or two after the draft I don't give myself kudos.

Koolbrz
03-07-2007, 10:05 PM
I agree with you on everything except for the RB position. I still feel that if we can get Peterson we should. God forbid Green goes down with a serious injury and we will be stuck with last yrs. below avg. RB's. Green is a great pick up, but i only see him having maybe 2 more good yrs. We need that young stud in the backfield. I do feel that we still have a shot at AP now that Jamal Lewis has signed with Cleveland. We will be making a big mistake if we pass up another RB with unlimited potential. The offense is in serious need of a gamebreaker in the backfield and the team has another shot, imo, at another stud RB. Hopefully they do the right thing this yr and draft AP in the first round.

Runner
03-07-2007, 10:10 PM
God forbid Green goes down with a serious injury and we will be stuck with last yrs. below avg. RB's.

I know how you feel. The Texans have an appalling lack of depth at almost all positions. Any injury is a setback for this team.

Runner
03-12-2007, 01:37 AM
I liked this post when I made it; too bad the very next free agent signing (Black) blew a lot of it out of the water.

DocBar
03-12-2007, 02:03 AM
1 - Troy Smith was an excellent COLLEGE quarterback. He has a fairly ordinary arm and very good mobility. The jury is most definitely out on whether he will be able to translate into a viable NFL QB. My gut reastion is no he will not.

Smith's arm strength is generated primarily when he can step into a ball and really fire it. The analogy would be an outfielder who takes a crow hop to put mustard on the ball. So many balls in the NFL must be thrown without having the ability to step into the throw. He does not have this kind of arm strength and relies too much on his lower body to generate power in his throws. This is what makes Russell so attractive to NFL scouts: his ability to throw the ball off his back foot with a flick of the wrist and be accurate.

2 - Smith is auditioning for EVERY NFL team and wants to play for everyone. Do the math...if he can get the Texans to draft him at 8, he will stand to get a ton more money than if he slips to the second round. He won't go in the first round. If the Texans chose him at 8, that would be a huge mistake. The vieled VY message was understood, but not applicable here.

The Texans not taking Troy is not a decision based on "bias". It is rooted in facts. He is too small. That does not translate well in the NFL.

I would lean towards Kolb in the third round or moving up with a second pick in the second round to pick up Kolb. Russell will be gone and I am not much of a Quinn fan, especially in lieu of the other needs we have to be addressed: OT, Safety, WR.

Nice ideas. I agree with you drafting a receiver in the mid rounds. The receiver position appears to be very deep this year. I'm kind of on the fence with your first pick. Although it wouldn't upset me drafting Levi, but the Tackle position is also pretty deep this year. I'd rather grab mutiple Olinemen from the middle rounds out. IMO, we should go defense with our first pick. Overall, with the number of holes we have on both sides of the ball I think it'd be hard to make a bad choice this year.:winky: IMO, Carr has plenty of arm strength to maake ANY pass in the NFL. He lacks touch, though. I can't count the # of times I saw WR's, TE's or RB's have to slow down, stop or reverse direction to make a catch, when hitting them in stride would've made a HUGE gain. That's at LEAST as important as arm strength. This WIDELY regarded as a very WEAK draft for OL. I don't know where you're getting your info, but PLEASE share. I also HATE the idea of cutting or trading Carr for a 2nd day pick. Cutting him does nothing at all for our team and does plenty for every other team out ther. See also Aaron Glenn and Jamie Sharper. Getting such low value in a trade means we MIGHT get someone who MIGHT help our team. We've kind of addressed our OL this offseason by resigning Salaam and signing Black. They aren't high profile, sexy picks, but they ARE solid ones. They WILL improve our OL. Runner, most of that was a well thought out post that I really enjoyed reading.

taxman
03-15-2007, 11:47 PM
I like this thread but I would've liked to see defense incorporated as well, since our defensive needs are relevant to overall draft/cap strategy.

I have only a few comments.

I think David Carr will still be here next year and I think he will basically compete for and win the starting job through camp, for reasons I've stated elsewhere. I think it's possible we look at drafting Quinn if he falls to us at #8 but we will not trade up for him or look to acquire Garcia or any of the other names that have been liberally tossed around here. I think it's also possible we look to draft a second-day QB but I just don't see us drafting any QB if Ramsey is signed.

I too am disappointed that Moulds is no longer here as I believe his relative lack of production was due more to Carr's deficiencies. I too hope that Mathis will develop his game as a WR because we desperately need his speed out there, and I'm not confident about Walter as a #2--IMO he is a #3 at very best and I was not enthused with his play last year.

I still favor Landry for the first pick but other than that I agree generally with your draft strategy.

I too agree with Carr's deficiencies, however, how can you say that Walter can't be the #2 receiver. True, he only had 17 catches, approx. 90% for first downs, but he was only thrown to 17 times and other throws no one else could have caught the ball either. They didn't give him a chance last year. At least give him his opportunity, and let him fail himself. I really think he will suprise alot of fans. (My opinion)

Ole Miss Texan
03-16-2007, 12:35 AM
I too agree with Carr's deficiencies, however, how can you say that Walter can't be the #2 receiver. True, he only had 17 catches, approx. 90% for first downs, but he was only thrown to 17 times and other throws no one else could have caught the ball either. They didn't give him a chance last year. At least give him his opportunity, and let him fail himself. I really think he will suprise alot of fans. (My opinion)

They way I see it, he hasn't shown me enough for me to say...yes I'm glad he's our #2 WR. The same way I'd say I havn't seen enough to say...Sage would be a great starting QB for us....The same way I'd say I havn't seen enough from Chris Taylor to say he'd be a great starting RB for us next season.

Lifetime Oiler/Texan Fan
03-16-2007, 12:56 PM
Here are some thoughts for discussion if anyone is interested.

Running Back – the Green pick-up is OK with me. The Texans need a running back that can give us a couple of years of production, and Green can be that guy. The remaining backs on the roster are good for depth as the younger ones develop their games. Given Green’s years in the league, I think they will all have a chance to get a significant number of carries.

Fullback – I think they should only carry one on the roster, and that should be Leach. It is fairly easy to pick up a fullback if he goes down with injury or doesn’t perform. I think it was a huge waste of a roster spot last year when they were carrying two fullbacks or a 4th tight end/fullback on the active roster.

Receiver – I am disappointed that Moulds is no longer here. I thought that receiver was an area they could have let ride for a year as they fixed some of the other holes on the team. I am not as confident that Walter will work out as a number two receiver as the Texans staff is. I’m not sure they are either – it is likely that their statements are PR spin after Moulds asked to be let go. It will be interesting to see if Mathis finally stays healthy and puts his nose to the grindstone and becomes a legitimate receiving threat. If not, he’ll be gone next year.

Tight End – I think we have two keepers on the roster in Daniels and Putzier. I think it is time to cut ties with Breuner; he is primarily a blocker although he can have a couple of surprise catches each year. I’d rather have a third dual threat person in that position. They can always use a tackle at tight end if they need the extra blocking on short yardage. I think a vet minimum tight end can be picked up to fill the third tight end roster spot, and then he’d have to earn his playing time. Daniels and Putzier would take most of snaps.

Center – there are three centers on the team right now and none of them strike me as being very good in the short or long term. I don’t think Flanagan adds much on the field, and roster spots are too valuable to waste on a locker room guy. Hodgdon has had a couple of chances and I haven’t been too impressed yet. He’s probably OK as a back-up, or maybe continued playing time would let him develop into a solid center. That leaves McKinney. While his pass blocking is suspect, I think he is the best run blocker the Texans have at center in their system. Unless we make a key pick-up in the draft or free agency, it looks like McKinney again. The wild card here is Weary – he has played center before, but he doesn’t get any work there now. Maybe that changes this year.

Guard – our best position on the line, which isn’t saying much. Pitts looks good most of the time, but he has his stretches where he doesn’t look so hot. He is commonly referred to here as “the best lineman on the team”, but what does that really mean? He has been a key component on one of the continually worst lines in the league. Maybe he should carry more fault than he is given – I don’t know. Weary looks good at times and bad at times. Unless a guard falls in the Texans’ lap, I’d be OK with going with them as starters and concentrating on bigger needs.

Tackle – our worst position on the line. The problem is we need two good ones and a good backup. I’d prefer two good back-ups, but more on that later. Winston has the best chance of being the real deal for us this year. He had some significant playing time last year, and that can only help his development. I’d say he’s a good tackle that may make a few mistakes as he continues gaining experience. That’s it for the good news. Spencer may or may not come back from his injury – reports conflict and seem to cover the whole spectrum between “he’s fine” and “he’s done”. The D. Davis/Williams lesson from last year tells the Texans they had better not count on Spencer making it back as a solid starter at the beginning of the year. The team likes Salaam as a swing tackle back-up, but I’d prefer a back-up left tackle and a back-up right tackle. I’m not sure Bedell makes the roster this year; if he does the Texans didn’t fix much on the line this off-season.

Quarterback – I think Rosenfels will be the starter with Carr as the back-up. I would prefer they trade or even cut Carr. They would then need to draft a good QB and try to find a low end veteran back-up. As far as getting rid of Carr, I think it is time for this from both the Texans’ and Carr’s perspectives. I would not be surprised to see Carr go to another team and with a fresh start carry more than is share of the weight. I don’t think better players around him would have to carry him; I think better players would allow him to play at a high level.

Roster Spots – I hope the Texans improve their use of valuable roster spots this season. I don’t like to see a roster spot taken by a player because “he’s good in the locker room” if he can’t also contribute on the field. This problem is doubled because it also seems like it is used as an excuse to gather Denver and Green Bay players on the team to keep the coaches comfortable. As far as roster spots go, I also don’t see the sense in leaving our already weak offensive line weaker because of lack of depth. As borderline as the back-ups are, it would be wise to carry an extra lineman compared to last year. It makes more sense to me to carry two reserve tackles on the roster than four tight ends or two fullbacks like they did last year.

----------------------------------------------------------
Filling the Gaps

Running Back – ok for now.

Fullback – keep Leach.

Tight end – find a vet minimum free agent if the Texans haven’t already identified a late round sleeper in the draft.

Receiver – draft or sign a decent veteran. I’ll put this one down a s mid-round draftee.

Center – draft or find a good vet free agent that isn’t too expensive. It is unlikely they’ll find a reasonably priced vet that can contribute more that what they have there now. They’ll probably have to draft a mid-round center or get a great deal of improvement out of Hodgdon.

Guard –go with the status quo and look at vet minimum players in training camp, or draft a late round guard to develop.

Tackle – use a high, preferably first round pick, on a tackle. First or second round minimum depending on what they do about quarterback.

Quarterback – second round pick.

----------------------------------------------------------
Summary

Low end free agent - tight end

High Draft pick – left tackle, quarterback

Mid-Round Draft Pick – center, receiver

That takes care of four of the seven draft picks, and the players better contribute early for the sake of the Texans. That leaves three picks and some free agent money for defense.

Great Post! With the three remaining picks, we need to look at safety, defensive end, and cornerback. I think we have done a good through FA with the defensive tackle and linebacker low end starter/good quality backups.

coachdent
03-16-2007, 01:18 PM
He's the same size as Drew Brees.
And Troy's throwing style is better than Carr's, who has a tendency to throw the ball right at the D's helmets instead of over them.

He is not in the same breath as Drew Brees in terms of talent. They may be the same height, but the tools are very different.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
03-16-2007, 02:06 PM
They way I see it, he hasn't shown me enough for me to say...yes I'm glad he's our #2 WR. The same way I'd say I havn't seen enough to say...Sage would be a great starting QB for us....The same way I'd say I havn't seen enough from Chris Taylor to say he'd be a great starting RB for us next season.

For that same reason you cannot say he is a #3 and not a #2. You ahv enot seen enough, the only thing you can say is he is definitely an asset to this team and proves he earns his spot every year.

That is the only concrete thing you can say for sure. There are many WRs out there until they get the opportunity to prove themselves, they are in a shadow, call it timing, call it politics of the game, call it what you want, but if you look at his career since college, NY Giants, Cinci, and here... he is a player that has strong work ethic, positive attitude and discipline.

He will be successful at #2, give him a chance ... I am giving you one...

jerek
03-16-2007, 02:12 PM
I too agree with Carr's deficiencies, however, how can you say that Walter can't be the #2 receiver. True, he only had 17 catches, approx. 90% for first downs, but he was only thrown to 17 times and other throws no one else could have caught the ball either. They didn't give him a chance last year. At least give him his opportunity, and let him fail himself. I really think he will suprise alot of fans. (My opinion)

I sure hope so, but it's my opinion at this point that he just doesn't have the speed to create consistent, sufficient separation as a #2. However that's an impression based on very limited observation to this point--I didn't play close attention to him in the camps I attended last year and past that I've only seen him in games, same as anyone else. I agree that Carr's overall poor performance last year (and without assigning blame for it, but considering only his play without asking why) made it more difficult to grade our receivers.

hollywood_texan
03-16-2007, 02:44 PM
IMO, Carr has plenty of arm strength to maake ANY pass in the NFL.

I have a different perspetive. I have never watched a Texans practice because I live in LA, so I don't know what Carr does in practice. But, I have watched enough games on Carr, and his long balls are soft and flutter. Some even look like punts.

I attribute these high arcing long balls due to not having enough arm strength. I guess you call it touch.

Just throw a football around a bit, it's a lot easier to get it farther downfield with a high arcing throw than putting it on a wire. Reason being, velocity is required on lower arcing balls or they will just fall to the ground too soon.

Which is the reason why Carr doesn't throw deep down the middle. The safeties are just going to eat that stuff up because they can already watch and know where Carr is going to throw. Then factor in a throw like a punt, the safety is fair catching an interception.

Arky
03-17-2007, 04:33 AM
For that same reason you cannot say he is a #3 and not a #2. You ahv enot seen enough, the only thing you can say is he is definitely an asset to this team and proves he earns his spot every year.

That is the only concrete thing you can say for sure. There are many WRs out there until they get the opportunity to prove themselves, they are in a shadow, call it timing, call it politics of the game, call it what you want, but if you look at his career since college, NY Giants, Cinci, and here... he is a player that has strong work ethic, positive attitude and discipline.

He will be successful at #2, give him a chance ... I am giving you one...

Ya, count me in as one who would like to see Walter get more playing time and more passes thrown his way. Ya know, he reminds me somewhat of Steve Largent - runs good routes, gets open without blazing speed, good hands.... Walter is taller, though...

The Houston Oilers had a young Steve Largent on the roster one year and I watched him do well in some preseason games. In my mind, he stood out. But they cut him and he got picked up by Seattle. Seattle figured out how to utilize him and the rest is history.... The Oilers letting him go was perhaps a situation like you mention where timing, politics, egos, etc. got in the way......

NATHANHALE
03-18-2007, 03:32 AM
I was reading some of Carr's pre-draft 2002 profiles, and there was 1 that was 'dead-on.' First, this writer disagreed about Carr's arm strength, saying 1) he was off-target on the intermediate and lacked the velocity/accuracy to get the ball to the receiver and 2) he arched his 'long balls' which give the defender time to make adjustments to the ball, because Carr lacks the strength to 'jet' the ball deep and depends on the arch.

He mentioned that Carr tends to throw behind his target too much. Too, he talked about his awkward release point and the effect it has on his throws and that he hangs onto the ball too long, and ends up getting sacks.

The premise of the article was that Carr was able to get away with these things in college, but needed to make changes going into the NFL. Oh, and he mentioned Carr's difficulty with the 3 step drop, had a tendency to 'stretch' it out...

Sound familiar? After 5 NFL seasons, Carr still has these same problems. Remember his 1st year when Palmer tried to get Carr to make changes, like the 'ladder' trick and the counting 'steps?' Imagine an OL that's trying to block for a QB that suppose to do 'one' thing but does another-3 step drop turns into 5 steps or a roll-out. And, the receivers-they know Carr is suppose to hit them in stride-but, no, the ball is behind them/or it's a jump ball/or whatever.

QB's like Montana/Aikman/Brady/Manning are workman like and the players around them know what to expect-even on a 'busted' play, they know their QB's tendencies and can adjust accordingly. With Carr, there is no consistency and no continuity--think about it, a players route is based on the steps the QB takes, as is the OL protection, but--what happens when Carr doesn't throw the ball at 3 steps?

It's no wonder our passing game looks like a train wreck!! And, sorry Homer's, but it starts with David doing what he is suppose to do...and don't think the other teams don't game plan for this...

What does this mean? Getting all-pros at every offensive position is not going to help until Carr understands his role in the equation, and that is why nothing our coaches seem to do helps.

Other GM's and HC's must be scratching their heads and wondering what they could do to correct Carr's 'take' on the offense-anything. JMO, but like Palmer, Kubiak had enough confidence in himself that he could change David but-by the end of the year-he knew it was a waste of time. This is why he took the ball out of Carr's hands and 'game planned' around the running attack.

Taking all these thoughts into account, I think Smith and Kubiak realize there is nothing they can do to 'straighten' Carr out--definitely not as a starter, probably not wanted as a back-up. Our best hope is that we get lucky and another team takes Carr off our hands for a decent draft choice...

DocBar
03-18-2007, 09:43 AM
I have a different perspetive. I have never watched a Texans practice because I live in LA, so I don't know what Carr does in practice. But, I have watched enough games on Carr, and his long balls are soft and flutter. Some even look like punts.

I attribute these high arcing long balls due to not having enough arm strength. I guess you call it touch.

Just throw a football around a bit, it's a lot easier to get it farther downfield with a high arcing throw than putting it on a wire. Reason being, velocity is required on lower arcing balls or they will just fall to the ground too soon.

Which is the reason why Carr doesn't throw deep down the middle. The safeties are just going to eat that stuff up because they can already watch and know where Carr is going to throw. Then factor in a throw like a punt, the safety is fair catching an interception.
I never get a chance to see the Texans live, either. I travel all the time(writing this in a hotel room in Oklahoma City). That's a good point on his arm strength, though. I'm not a Carr fanatic,either way. He definitely does some boneheaded things and I throw lots of nerf balls at the the TV after a receiver has to stop/reverse direction to make a catch. I simply don't blame EVERYTHING on Carr and think that changing QB's will automatically make us into a winning team.

infantrycak
03-18-2007, 10:46 AM
I attribute these high arcing long balls due to not having enough arm strength.

Wow--with all the problems Carr has, people still feel compelled to make up more. Incredible.

keyfro
03-18-2007, 03:50 PM
the offense will go as far as the running game takes it

if the o-line can work together to get green and company plenty of room to run that will open up the play action pass and the bootleg wide open...allowing andre and walter and hopefully mathis the chance to get behind the coverage for plenty of big time passes from the QB

if the runningbacks do their job along with the o-line this offense despite who is at QB can be a top 10 offense...it all depends on the running game

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Wow--with all the problems Carr has, people still feel compelled to make up more. Incredible.

yea, i contribute those high arcing long balls to not having any time to throw the ball. therefore any QB would have to throw it high and arcing like that so the receiver can get to it downfield. otherwise they would all be 10 yard long 'deep' throw routes.

NATHANHALE
03-18-2007, 04:47 PM
yea, i contribute those high arcing long balls to not having any time to throw the ball. therefore any QB would have to throw it high and arcing like that so the receiver can get to it downfield. otherwise they would all be 10 yard long 'deep' throw routes.

Carr had the same problem in college...

NATHANHALE
03-18-2007, 05:11 PM
Wow--with all the problems Carr has, people still feel compelled to make up more. Incredible.



"Negatives: While he shows accuracy on his long passes, his arm strength is adequate, as he tends to arc his deep attempts … Holds the ball too long, inviting the sack, rather than dumping it off or throwing it away … Makes proper checks, but does not have a variety of throws … Needs to improve his pass drop, as he does a lot of three-step motion and will hold the ball a little too long, taking the sack rather than throwing it away"

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Wolf
03-18-2007, 05:21 PM
I am not sure about his deep balls either, I don't know if it was the coaching he get in the pros or what, but I recall that throw to jermain lewis against the cowboys was a 60 yard dart. too bad J-lewis dropped it

The Pencil Neck
03-18-2007, 06:05 PM
I am not sure about his deep balls either, I don't know if it was the coaching he get in the pros or what, but I recall that throw to jermain lewis against the cowboys was a 60 yard dart. too bad J-lewis dropped it

I haven't seen one of those throws in a long time. All of the deep throws I remember over the past couple of years have been rainbows that were thrown short. Now that's great if you want to throw a jump ball and AJ is a great guy to throw a jumpball to... but... I've wondered if he hurt his shoulder at some point and can't make those 60 yard dart throws any more.

Wolf
03-18-2007, 06:19 PM
I haven't seen one of those throws in a long time. All of the deep throws I remember over the past couple of years have been rainbows that were thrown short. Now that's great if you want to throw a jump ball and AJ is a great guy to throw a jumpball to... but... I've wondered if he hurt his shoulder at some point and can't make those 60 yard dart throws any more.

very true.

TwinSisters
03-18-2007, 07:58 PM
I am not sure about his deep balls either, I don't know if it was the coaching he get in the pros or what, but I recall that throw to jermain lewis against the cowboys was a 60 yard dart. too bad J-lewis dropped it

5 years removed.
5 years.

The Civil War was finished in that amount of time. A world war can be fought to conclusion in that amount of time. Elizabeth Taylor could chew through 3 husbands in that amount of time. The Beatles went from a Hard Day's Night to Abbey Road in that amount of time. Voyager could outpace Saturn in that amount of time.

That's a long time.
5 years.

Ole Miss Texan
03-18-2007, 08:06 PM
5 years removed.
5 years.

The Civil War was finished in that amount of time. A world war can be fought to conclusion in that amount of time. Elizabeth Taylor could chew through 3 husbands in that amount of time. The Beatles went from a Hard Day's Night to Abbey Road in that amount of time. Voyager could outpace Saturn in that amount of time.

That's a long time.
5 years.

5 years and I still havn't graduated college.

DocBar
03-18-2007, 08:12 PM
5 years and I still havn't graduated college.
"I've been going to this high school for 5 years. I'm no dummy!!!!" Quote from
Better Off Dead...hilarious movie if you grew up in the 80's

Wolf
03-18-2007, 08:27 PM
5 years removed.
5 years.

The Civil War was finished in that amount of time. A world war can be fought to conclusion in that amount of time. Elizabeth Taylor could chew through 3 husbands in that amount of time. The Beatles went from a Hard Day's Night to Abbey Road in that amount of time. Voyager could outpace Saturn in that amount of time.

That's a long time.
5 years.

i agree with that but my point was not to dwell on 5 years ago, but as his long ball was a dart.. now it is a floater (hence, the "I wasn't sure if it was the coaching of throwing the deep ball or what" stateent)

TwinSisters
03-18-2007, 11:02 PM
i agree with that but my point was not to dwell on 5 years ago, but as his long ball was a dart.. now it is a floater (hence, the "I wasn't sure if it was the coaching of throwing the deep ball or what" stateent)

Yeah, I understood. When I saw that Lewis reference it hit me that Carr has been in the saddle for 5 years and is still tusseling with something that has been with him from college, the hanging deep ball. Very little progress or development.

Maybe a minor problem though, on account that he hasn't thrown it deep all that much.