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hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 01:37 PM
I believe picking Quinn will be a huge mistake! He underachieved at Notre Dame with an offensive-minded guru, so how is he going to overachieve with Kubiak that couldn't salvage David Carr?

The Texans have so many holes that require impact players.

I really don't care for Carr or if even he got cut, but I would rather have Carr as my starter next year than Quinn sitting on the bench waiting in the wings.

Drafting Quinn, locks us into another 5 years of a starter that didn't even prove himself at the college level.

Quinn is just Carr redux...

I am calling it now, the Texans draft Quinn, the Texans will not have a winning record in their first 10 years.

DomDavis
03-05-2007, 01:42 PM
I'm not in love with the guy either, but he was a four-star recruit (not even five) who posted junior and senior seasons of 32 TD and 7 INT followed by 37 TD and 7 INT with more than 60 percent of his passes completed. His average QB rating was around 150 in those years and threw for on average more than 3,500 yards.

How in the world was that an underachiever?

kastofsna
03-05-2007, 01:44 PM
I'm not in love with the guy either, but he was a four-star recruit (not even five) who posted junior and senior seasons of 32 TD and 7 INT followed by 37 TD and 7 INT with more than 60 percent of his passes completed. His average QB rating was around 150 in those years and threw for on average more than 3,500 yards.

How in the world was that an underachiever?
don't expect a satisfactory answer. there is none. he broke just about every record in notre dame's history.

real
03-05-2007, 01:44 PM
Originally I was against Quinn...

However I've changed my mind...If Quinn is there...WE MUST TAKE HIM....

He's smart...Can read defenses...make all the throws...

and last but not least...

He can make a play when things break down... and he can make plays when you need them most....he's mobile, strong....good pocket presence...knows where he wants to go with the ball...


I didn't like the way he looked all the time at Notre Dame, but he had a great college coach who knows the NFL and I'm sure Weiss gave him a few pointers...

If we pass on Quinn, it will be a mistake...

OrangeCountyTexansFan
03-05-2007, 01:46 PM
Well, it wouldn't matter if he was great in college. Once he gets behind our offensive line it will be a different matter altogether. Currently, I don't think Tom Brady could play behind our O-line.

real
03-05-2007, 01:47 PM
Currently, I don't think Tom Brady could play behind our O-line.

Carr made our line look a lot worse than it was.

texans83
03-05-2007, 01:52 PM
Originally I was against Quinn...

However I've changed my mind...If Quinn is there...WE MUST TAKE HIM....

He's smart...Can read defenses...make all the throws...

and last but not least...

He can make a play when things break down... and he can make plays when you need them most....he's mobile, strong....good pocket presence...knows where he wants to go with the ball...


I didn't like the way he looked all the time at Notre Dame, but he had a great college coach who knows the NFL and I'm sure Weiss gave him a few pointers...

If we pass on Quinn, it will be a mistake...

hey look who came around. welcome!!!!:ok:

thunderkyss
03-05-2007, 01:54 PM
....I would rather have Carr as my starter next year than Quinn sitting on the bench waiting in the wings.



Ok fella... who the hell are you, and what did you do with hollywood??

texans83
03-05-2007, 01:57 PM
Carr/Quinn-Sage let Quinn hold the clip board the itleast a year and then throw him in there. Hopefully we will have a much improved line.

hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 01:58 PM
I'm not in love with the guy either, but he was a four-star recruit (not even five) who posted junior and senior seasons of 32 TD and 7 INT followed by 37 TD and 7 INT with more than 60 percent of his passes completed. His average QB rating was around 150 in those years and threw for on average more than 3,500 yards.

How in the world was that an underachiever?

Losing big games is an underachiever.

I didn't watched every Notre Dame game, but the big games I watched, I wasn't impressed with his play at all. The Sugar Bowl was just aweful and really sinched it for me that he isn't worth a 1st round draft pick.

Besides, college stats are little misleading at times due the fact that top tier college teams play lot lesser opponents, except in the SEC. The big 3 games Notre Dame played last year, they weren't even close and Brady's play was marginal.

texans83
03-05-2007, 02:01 PM
Losing big games is an underachiever.

I didn't watched every Notre Dame game, but the big games I watched, I wasn't impressed with his play at all. The Sugar Bowl was just aweful and really sinched it for me that he isn't worth a 1st round draft pick.

Besides, college stats are little misleading at times due the fact that top tier college teams play lot lesser opponents, except in the SEC. The big 3 games Notre Dame played last year, they weren't even close and Brady's play was marginal.

He was their whole offense and he had no defensive support. Most sec teams have great defences. His WR had very little speen. He is smart, mobile, good arm and CW says he is going to be the next tom brady, so I say again why dont you want him. Please dont tell me bc you would rather have Kolb!!

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2007, 02:04 PM
I don't care what y'all say...Quinn is gonna be good in this league. I do think he will be gone before we pick. i would rather use our 1st pick on someone else and get kolb in the 3rd....so he can sit for 2 years...let our line get good and then throw him in there when they are both ready....for a lot cheaper too.

Apparently on Cold Pizza this morning..we admitted our mistake for passing on Bush last year because we got Green in FA...lol i laughed when they said that.

Skip said he thought we did the right thing by passing bush but thought we should have gotten Vince. Drafting Quinn....would make them go wild...and i don't want to see that...lol

Kolb they would say okay he's the hometown boy... lol

hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 02:10 PM
Ok fella... who the hell are you, and what did you do with hollywood??

I know it is a surpise, but drafting Quinn is locking us into him being a starter for at least 5 years considering how this franchise operated with Carr. We all know Carr's time with the Texans is limited if his play doesn't greatly improve and start to carry this team.

The Texans need a player that can start immediately, which means with all the holes on this team, they could find a player at #8 that could start. Offensive line, defensive line, or secondary come to mind.

The Texans have dug themselves in a hole with the QB position, I don't see how Quinn is even close to being an answer and compounds the problems associated with other positions that need upgrading.

hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 02:17 PM
He was their whole offense and he had no defensive support. Most sec teams have great defences. His WR had very little speen. He is smart, mobile, good arm and CW says he is going to be the next tom brady, so I say again why dont you want him. Please dont tell me bc you would rather have Kolb!!

The games I watched, I was completely unimpressed. If a QB plays at Notre Dame with Charlie Weiss and can't win one big game in 2 years, I don't see how that is going to change when he gets in the NFL.

This year, I wouldn't even be worried about drafting a QB, for the same reason I wouldn't have been worried about drafting a QB in 2002.

As for your reference to Tom Brady, I have no problem with the Texans taking Quinn in the 5th round, I wouldn't like it though.

thunderkyss
03-05-2007, 02:21 PM
The games I watched, I was completely unimpressed. If a QB plays at Notre Dame with Charlie Weiss and can't win one big game in 2 years, I don't see how that is going to change when he gets in the NFL.

This year, I wouldn't even be worried about drafting a QB, for the same reason I wouldn't have been worried about drafting a QB in 2002.

As for your reference to Tom Brady, I have no problem with the Texans taking Quinn in the 5th round, I wouldn't like it though.

I'm with you on Quinn. Well, I'm not sold on him... but Kubiak went to go see the kid. If he's David II, then we won't even consider him. In my mind, if we take him, Kubiak really likes the kid, and thinks he has what it takes.

Besides, the last QB they said "couldn't win the big one" has been sitting on the top of this division since inception.

& He just won the SuperBowl.

texans83
03-05-2007, 02:24 PM
I'm with you on Quinn. Well, I'm not sold on him... but Kubiak went to go see the kid. If he's David II, then we won't even consider him. In my mind, if we take him, Kubiak really likes the kid, and thinks he has what it takes.

Besides, the last QB they said "couldn't win the big one" has been sitting on the top of this division since inception.

& He just won the SuperBowl.

exactly, I guarentee you that Quinn will be the superstar in the NFL and Russell even though he won the BIG game, he will be a bust.

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2007, 02:29 PM
exactly, I guarentee you that Quinn will be the superstar in the NFL and Russell even though he won the BIG game, he will be a bust.

I won't guarantee it..seeing how I was off on Vince Young is gonna take 1-2 years...lol

But i will agree with T83...I think Quinn will be better than Russell. I see Russell "busting" easier than I can a lot of people...there is a lot of hype for him and it's just cuz he has a strong arm and he's HUGE.

I wish the both the best of luck..I hope they are both good but are both on different teams.

hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 02:36 PM
I'm with you on Quinn. Well, I'm not sold on him... but Kubiak went to go see the kid. If he's David II, then we won't even consider him. In my mind, if we take him, Kubiak really likes the kid, and thinks he has what it takes.

Besides, the last QB they said "couldn't win the big one" has been sitting on the top of this division since inception.

& He just won the SuperBowl.

Fair enough, but 99 out 100 of the guys that "couldn't win the big one" never were able to.

Could Quinn become a great QB like Manning and/or Brady? Sure, he seems to have the physical skills. But, all too many guys have the physical skills but can't seem to put it together.

Which is my issue with Quinn. I just don't see anything that gets me excited to think he can carry the Texans. Of course he has the measureables, but that doesn't make a leader and it doesn't win football games.

As I said in my original post to start this thread, Quinn is Carr Redux. It really concerns me that they are even considering this.

The point of this draft is to make the whole team better this year and the Texans don't have to draft a QB in 2007 to make this team better than last year.

I think managing the QB situation right now is a lot better idea than trying to fix it for the long-term. I really believe this team can go 8-8 next year with a rock solid draft (which means not drafting a QB) and letting the chips fall where they may by letting Carr and Rosenfels battle out it for the QB position.

Priority #1 has to be winning 8 games next year, and I don't see how Quinn is going to help out with that.

El Tejano
03-05-2007, 02:42 PM
Quinn had some really good come from behind victories and he played very well against USC when USC was USC. The defense lossed that game.

Navy_Chris
03-05-2007, 02:47 PM
I believe picking Quinn will be a huge mistake! He underachieved at Notre Dame with an offensive-minded guru, so how is he going to overachieve with Kubiak that couldn't salvage David Carr?

The Texans have so many holes that require impact players.

I really don't care for Carr or if even he got cut, but I would rather have Carr as my starter next year than Quinn sitting on the bench waiting in the wings.

Drafting Quinn, locks us into another 5 years of a starter that didn't even prove himself at the college level.

Quinn is just Carr redux...

I am calling it now, the Texans draft Quinn, the Texans will not have a winning record in their first 10 years.

I believe Brady can come in and have success in Houston. The reason Kubiak couldn't salvage David Carr is because he was damaged goods when Kub got him, so damaged that he couldn't be repaired. I think that under the tutelage of Kubiak and the benefit of sitting under a veteran QB like Sage Rosenfels, Quinn will become a very good QB for the Texans.

DomDavis
03-05-2007, 02:51 PM
Losing big games is an underachiever.

I didn't watched every Notre Dame game, but the big games I watched, I wasn't impressed with his play at all. The Sugar Bowl was just aweful and really sinched it for me that he isn't worth a 1st round draft pick.

Besides, college stats are little misleading at times due the fact that top tier college teams play lot lesser opponents, except in the SEC. The big 3 games Notre Dame played last year, they weren't even close and Brady's play was marginal.

If one player had the power to win or lose that games, then yes, he'd be an underachiever. However, they do not. In each of those three games, Notre Dame's OL was completely abused and their team speed on both sides of the ball was not even close to that of Michigan, USC and LSU.

Also, Brady was more than marginal against USC... 274 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT and 74 yards rushing. That's good for any quarterback.

Want to know the real reason Notre Dame lost those games? A defense that allowed 47 points to Michigan, 44 points to USC, and 41 points to LSU (and would've been even more if all three teams hadn't been running out the clock in the fourth). Peyton Manning couldn't win games with that kind of defense.

DomDavis
03-05-2007, 02:51 PM
Fair enough, but 99 out 100 of the guys that "couldn't win the big one" never were able to.

That's because 99 out of 100 of the guys that "couldn't win the big one" were on bad teams... thus the reason they didn't win the big game in the first place.

Kaiser Toro
03-05-2007, 02:52 PM
I am not a Quinn fan, but it would be ignorant for me to think that he would not be a high value player at the number eight position - for us or others. The kid has some charisma and is the type of guy that has the characteristics of a leader, via the press conferences I have listened to, that others would follow. He has measurements that must be noticed on its face as well and lastly he understands what pressure is.

If we take him I would be unhappy with so many other glaring needs, but would certainly see the value.

thunderkyss
03-05-2007, 02:52 PM
Fair enough, but 99 out 100 of the guys that "couldn't win the big one" never were able to.

Could Quinn become a great QB like Manning and/or Brady? Sure, he seems to have the physical skills. But, all too many guys have the physical skills but can't seem to put it together.

Which is my issue with Quinn. I just don't see anything that gets me excited to think he can carry the Texans. Of course he has the measureables, but that doesn't make a leader and it doesn't win football games.

As I said in my original post to start this thread, Quinn is Carr Redux. It really concerns me that they are even considering this.

The point of this draft is to make the whole team better this year and the Texans don't have to draft a QB in 2007 to make this team better than last year.

I think managing the QB situation right now is a lot better idea than trying to fix it for the long-term. I really believe this team can go 8-8 next year with a rock solid draft (which means not drafting a QB) and letting the chips fall where they may by letting Carr and Rosenfels battle out it for the QB position.

Priority #1 has to be winning 8 games next year, and I don't see how Quinn is going to help out with that.

Again, I'm with you on that... but, I'd much rather take the QB now, while we are in position to(as long as Gary isn't rushing anything).. Than to go two or three years, when we are winning 9 to 10 games a year, drafting at 16 or 21, and having to trade up to get a QB who might be an even bigger reach.

I'm just saying if Kubiak objectively thinks Quinn is the real deal, I have no problem drafting him with the #8. If not... I won't be heart broken if we pass.

I'm trusting Kubiak to do the right thing, before I get in an anti-Quinn uproar.

Mr teX
03-05-2007, 02:53 PM
Originally I was against Quinn...

However I've changed my mind...If Quinn is there...WE MUST TAKE HIM....

He's smart...Can read defenses...make all the throws...

and last but not least...

He can make a play when things break down... and he can make plays when you need them most....he's mobile, strong....good pocket presence...knows where he wants to go with the ball...


I didn't like the way he looked all the time at Notre Dame, but he had a great college coach who knows the NFL and I'm sure Weiss gave him a few pointers...

If we pass on Quinn, it will be a mistake...


This statement wouldn't have anything to do with our 2 most coveted FA's at the QB position retiring & signing with another team would they?

LoL, j/jk I just think if he is brought along slowly & is able to sit & watch for a year, You know, the right way to develop a QB, he can come right in & do very well for this franchise when his time comes. All the while he's sitting, Our team will be getting better talent wise, so he doesn't have to suffer the horrors that DC did.

One things for sure, he's got a leg up on all of the prospects b/c a successful NFL offensive coach has coached him up.

Navy_Chris
03-05-2007, 02:58 PM
This statement wouldn't have anything to do with our 2 most coveted FA's at the QB position retiring & signing with another team would they?

LoL, j/jk I just think if he is brought along slowly & is able to sit & watch for a year, You know, the right way to develop a QB, he can come right in & do very well for this franchise when his time comes. All the while he's sitting, Our team will be getting better talent wise, so he doesn't have to suffer the horrors that DC did.

I don't understand the "MUST WIN RIGHT NOW" attitude expressed by many posters on this board. This team hasn't been built properly since its inception, and Kubiak and Smith are trying to "build" the team from the ground up as we speak. I know it's been 5 years and we have yet to smell success, but fans must be patient. Winning will come, but for right now, we need to be concerned with "building" a championship caliber team for years to come, not necessarily winning RIGHT NOW. We've got depth issues on both lines, a weak secondary, and a HUGE QB issue. I don't mean that in a negative way, I just think we need to build those parts of our roster up first. To expect a 9 or 10 win season from these guys next season isn't totally absurd, but is a little bit of a reach, IMO. Kubiak and Rick Smith will turn this team around and get the right players in here, but we have to give them time and not expect a huge turnaround right off the bat.

texans83
03-05-2007, 02:59 PM
If Kubes did bring him in he would not start him this next year. He would make him sit. So that is why Kubes is going to address it this year so in two or three years when we are in need of a QB we wont be reaching down to grab one. Plus if we did that we would prob make him come in and start. This is the right way, drafting then sitting. Kubes knows what he is doing.

HuttoKarl
03-05-2007, 02:59 PM
I'm not in love with the guy either, but he was a four-star recruit (not even five) who posted junior and senior seasons of 32 TD and 7 INT followed by 37 TD and 7 INT with more than 60 percent of his passes completed. His average QB rating was around 150 in those years and threw for on average more than 3,500 yards.

How in the world was that an underachiever?

Because he couldn't play defense and hold teams to under 40 points in those losses everyone's so concerned about.

kastofsna
03-05-2007, 03:00 PM
lol @ fans expecting to win RIGHT NOW. very disappointing season coming up.

Navy_Chris
03-05-2007, 03:01 PM
lol @ fans expecting to win RIGHT NOW. very disappointing season coming up.

been trying to say that. at least someone on this board agrees with me.

texans83
03-05-2007, 03:02 PM
I don't understand the "MUST WIN RIGHT NOW" attitude expressed by many posters on this board. This team hasn't been built properly since its inception, and Kubiak and Smith are trying to "build" the team from the ground up as we speak. I know it's been 5 years and we have yet to smell success, but fans must be patient. Winning will come, but for right now, we need to be concerned with "building" a championship caliber team for years to come, not necessarily winning RIGHT NOW. We've got depth issues on both lines, a weak secondary, and a HUGE QB issue. I don't mean that in a negative way, I just think we need to build those parts of our roster up first. To expect a 9 or 10 win season from these guys next season isn't totally absurd, but is a little bit of a reach, IMO. Kubiak and Rick Smith will turn this team around and get the right players in here, but we have to give them time and not expect a huge turnaround right off the bat.

I agree 100%. The QB position isent like any other position, you cant just throw him into action in the nfl. He must have time to groom if you want success, this is why we are addressing this now, its a building block and it will take time. Trust me I want to win soooo bad but Kubes and smith are doing it the right way, you have to build through the draft, and they are doing just that.

texans83
03-05-2007, 03:04 PM
I think alot of these guys on these blogs dont know the first thing when it comes to football. I get so dam angry when I read some of these posts, like win now or im finding another team. Well get the hell out. Thats just like as a kid when someone asked you who was your favorite team and you allways said such and such team who just won the superbowl but all the sudden it changes next year. I just cant stand it. Pwoplw be patient!!!!! The team is in good hands.

Mr teX
03-05-2007, 03:08 PM
I don't understand the "MUST WIN RIGHT NOW" attitude expressed by many posters on this board. This team hasn't been built properly since its inception, and Kubiak and Smith are trying to "build" the team from the ground up as we speak. I know it's been 5 years and we have yet to smell success, but fans must be patient. Winning will come, but for right now, we need to be concerned with "building" a championship caliber team for years to come, not necessarily winning RIGHT NOW. We've got depth issues on both lines, a weak secondary, and a HUGE QB issue. I don't mean that in a negative way, I just think we need to build those parts of our roster up first. To expect a 9 or 10 win season from these guys next season isn't totally absurd, but is a little bit of a reach, IMO. Kubiak and Rick Smith will turn this team around and get the right players in here, but we have to give them time and not expect a huge turnaround right off the bat.


Well i thought that was what i was getting at when i said sit him a year & bring him along slowly. but i agree, we've had regime change & that alone will take a little time just for the Kubiak mantra to take hold as new young players come in.

Navy_Chris
03-05-2007, 03:09 PM
Well i thought that was what i was getting at when i said sit him a year & bring him along slowly. but i agree, we've had regime change & it will take a while just for the new regime's mantra to take hold as new young players come in.

my bad dude, i wasn't trying to dispute what you said. i was just making a general comment.

Mr teX
03-05-2007, 03:13 PM
my bad dude, i wasn't trying to dispute what you said. i was just making a general comment.

gotcha

Heresy
03-05-2007, 03:37 PM
I think some of the mistakes that Quinn made in some of the big games weren't a result of him being a loser or bad player, but a result of him knowing that if he didn't gamble some and try to make something happen, no one else was going to either.

I'm not a Quinn fan, but he gets slammed for things that were really beyond his control. He could have played safer football but the only thing that would have changed is a slightly different margin of loss.

Unless last years draft success was just a complete lucky fluke, I'm going to trust Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak to use the 8th pick on a player they feel fits a need and fits their system. If it's Quinn, then so be it. If it's someone else, I'm fine with that as well.

Ole Miss Texan
03-05-2007, 03:43 PM
Unless last years draft success was just a complete lucky fluke, I'm going to trust Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak to use the 8th pick on a player they feel fits a need and fits their system. If it's Quinn, then so be it. If it's someone else, I'm fine with that as well.

I'll agree with this. I've got my list of who I like and would like to see. But at the end of the day I guess i'll admit that they know more about it than i do.

Clash_Fan3605
03-05-2007, 04:41 PM
I believe picking Quinn will be a huge mistake! He underachieved at Notre Dame with an offensive-minded guru, so how is he going to overachieve with Kubiak that couldn't salvage David Carr?

The Texans have so many holes that require impact players.

I really don't care for Carr or if even he got cut, but I would rather have Carr as my starter next year than Quinn sitting on the bench waiting in the wings.

Drafting Quinn, locks us into another 5 years of a starter that didn't even prove himself at the college level.

Quinn is just Carr redux...

I am calling it now, the Texans draft Quinn, the Texans will not have a winning record in their first 10 years.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!!!!!!!

Scott747
03-05-2007, 05:47 PM
I'm not a Quinn fan, but a little food for thought.

Romeo Crennel and Kubiak were the only coaches present for the ND pro day. Also Clevelands owner was there as well.....

hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 05:49 PM
If one player had the power to win or lose that games, then yes, he'd be an underachiever. However, they do not. In each of those three games, Notre Dame's OL was completely abused and their team speed on both sides of the ball was not even close to that of Michigan, USC and LSU.

Also, Brady was more than marginal against USC... 274 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT and 74 yards rushing. That's good for any quarterback.

Want to know the real reason Notre Dame lost those games? A defense that allowed 47 points to Michigan, 44 points to USC, and 41 points to LSU (and would've been even more if all three teams hadn't been running out the clock in the fourth). Peyton Manning couldn't win games with that kind of defense.

Quinn didn't win at Notre Dame because he didn't have good enough players around him? Then how is he going to be successful as a Houston Texan?

The same excuses you are making for Quinn are the same excuses used in Carr's defense. The same old bad offensive line and suspect defense.

Which is what really concerns me!

Most 1st round QB picks don't pan out, that is just a fact.

Also, 1st round QBs generally don't sit for a year. The league has completely changed in this regard.

hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 05:55 PM
lol @ fans expecting to win RIGHT NOW. very disappointing season coming up.
I don't know if you are referring to me, but I think the Texans #1 objective should be getting to 8 wins next year.

Putting all their eggs in one basket right now to go to Super Bowl in 5 years is just foolish right now. This Franchise cannot go it's first 10 years without a winning season.

Also, considering how this franchise handled Carr, Quinn will be a starter for 4 to 5 years because he will already have the built in excuse of bad offensive line and suspect defense. Which is the reason why they shouldn't pick Quinn, they don't need to be locked in right now on a QB that was marginal in his play at a top tier college with an offensive minded Guru from the NFL.

Besides, you can't tell me there aren't guys like Quinn every year in the draft in the first couple of rounds. He just isn't that special. He has physical talents, but it really stops there because he hasn't proved it.

Wait a year or so and build out the team in more critical areas. They take Quinn, they are making the same mistake they did in 2002.

DomDavis
03-05-2007, 06:23 PM
Quinn didn't win at Notre Dame because he didn't have good enough players around him? Then how is he going to be successful as a Houston Texan?

The same excuses you are making for Quinn are the same excuses used in Carr's defense. The same old bad offensive line and suspect defense.

Which is what really concerns me!

Most 1st round QB picks don't pan out, that is just a fact.

Also, 1st round QBs generally don't sit for a year. The league has completely changed in this regard.

The same any QB would do until there are better players in Houston. Peyton Manning wouldn't have had a winning season here.

Excuses? Are you kidding me? Those three teams averaged 44 points per game!!! Are you seriously saying that's not a valid reason why Notre Dame lost those games?

The reality is, there are no excuses to be made... because Quinn didn't lose those games! The TEAM did. I'm pointing out the team's biggest flaws.

hollywood_texan
03-05-2007, 06:39 PM
The same any QB would do until there are better players in Houston. Peyton Manning wouldn't have had a winning season here.

Excuses? Are you kidding me? Those three teams averaged 44 points per game!!! Are you seriously saying that's not a valid reason why Notre Dame lost those games?

The reality is, there are no excuses to be made... because Quinn didn't lose those games! The TEAM did. I'm pointing out the team's biggest flaws.

You are actually making a case for a reason to not draft Quinn.

The Texans do not have a complete enough roster to make a QB a better player. My concern with Quinn is being locked into a QB for 3 to 5 years at a minimum. The Texans still haven't drafted an offensive lineman in the first round yet!

Are you saying Manning couldn't get the Texans to .500? I don't know about that... That is like saying the Colts would be a winner if they didn't have Manning. Who plays the QB position is extremely important, and just because one guy can't succeed on one team at QB doesn't mean any other QB wouldn't succeed on the same team.

Explain this, how is Quinn any different from David Carr? Also, how is Quinn any different from any other prospect that is seen every year in the NFL draft?

Guys like Quinn are around every year in the draft, there is nothing unique about him. If there weren't glaring needs at other positions, I would be willing to live with this and take the chance.

Clash_Fan3605
03-05-2007, 06:48 PM
Rep coming your way, Hollywood_Texan! Excellent Post! :shades:

Dime
03-05-2007, 07:34 PM
The one thing Carr did not have was someone to make him accountable and to show him the ropes. The management was more concerned with how high the pedestal was for Carr then helping him be the best QB that he could have been. With Quinn, he would have someone to learn from the start. Kub! Look how much he helped Carr at the beginning of the season (Note: Carr, while he can be saved in my oponion, would now be a MAJOR project to reform. I believe it could be done, but it is so much easier to start over with someone new. Carr does have skills and potential, but he has run out of two things. Time (organization/fans patience with him) and Confidence (also organization/team/fans). Quinn can be very good to awesome under Kub, I feel, but Carr would take so much longer to unlearn 5 bad years.

yourfavoritetexan42
03-05-2007, 07:45 PM
Brady Quinn had one of the worst defensive units playing with him in college football. That defense couldn't stop high octane offenses like USC, Michigan, LSU OSU etc.

In all those games... Quinn kept them in it... Quinn did everything and then some to make sure they beat USC, then the defense gave up a bonehead fade on 4th, and let them score and notre dame loses. Against LSU (at lsu I must add) LSU blitzed the crap out of Quinn who was coming from behind, and he really had a pretty good game (i watched the game, you retards stop basing all your information off stats). I followed this kid from high school... I honestly thought he was better coming out of high school than Chris Leak... and he proved in college that he could put up big numbers.

He had a better collegiate career than Joe Montana did at Notre Dame. That team had a weak running game that just thrived because every team was expecting the pass, but throughout the game Quinn carried that team on his shoulders.

Quinn will be the better pro out of him and russel.


Now should the Texans take Quinn? My opinion, no. We have way too many other holes to fill. Something that might be interesting is if Quinn is available at 8, how about trade the bears our #8 for their first round pick and briggs?

run-david-run
03-05-2007, 09:45 PM
Carr/Quinn-Sage let Quinn hold the clip board the itleast a year and then throw him in there. Hopefully we will have a much improved line.

Why? Quinn was running a pro offense. Hell, his coach ran a Super Bowl winning offense the year before he showed up. Quinn will go from day 1 if we get him. Also, our offensive line is no longer at historic lows, esspecially when healthy. Add a good blocking back in Ahman Green, and we might even see some throws downfield next season...:yes:

hollywood_texan
03-06-2007, 11:03 AM
The one thing Carr did not have was someone to make him accountable and to show him the ropes. The management was more concerned with how high the pedestal was for Carr then helping him be the best QB that he could have been. With Quinn, he would have someone to learn from the start. Kub! Look how much he helped Carr at the beginning of the season (Note: Carr, while he can be saved in my oponion, would now be a MAJOR project to reform. I believe it could be done, but it is so much easier to start over with someone new. Carr does have skills and potential, but he has run out of two things. Time (organization/fans patience with him) and Confidence (also organization/team/fans). Quinn can be very good to awesome under Kub, I feel, but Carr would take so much longer to unlearn 5 bad years.

I don't know where to begin with this. Kubiak is such a great coach but he underestimated how long it would take him to fix Carr? That just doesn't make sense if Kubiak is so smart. I have my own theory on this issue, but your logic is flawed.

Look, players make a coach's career at the top tier colleges and the NFL, not the other way around. Just ask Mack Brown and Jeff Fischer.

You didn't explain how Quinn is really that different or special from the typical QB in this year's draft, except that Kubiak will be around to hold his feet to the fire.

Quinn is a player that is around every draft, there is no reason to take this guy when there are so many holes to fill in other positions. Also, most 1st round QB selections don't live up to expectations, it is at best a 25% success rate.

OrangeCountyTexansFan
03-06-2007, 11:11 AM
Carr made our line look a lot worse than it was.
That arguement can also be turned around as well to say that the O-line made Carr look a lot worse than what he was.
Sorry xtruroyaltyx. I can't view our O-line or our QB with rose-colored glasses anymore.

santo
03-06-2007, 11:27 AM
What I am getting here is that Brady Quinn has been doing a lot more with less talent on the o-line. Carr on the other hand had a decent to good o-line when he was in college. If that's the case, then Brady is doing more with a lot less, which it's hard for me to see him not succeeding in the NFL.

Big games in colleges do not mean anything in the NFL. I have a feeling Quinn should not even be compared to Carr. Heck, not even Kolb or any other qb should be compared to Carr.


True, these quarterbacks in this years draft don't compare to the ones in last years draft, but that doesn't mean they compare to the ones in 2002. Those qb's were and are still awful.

Second Honeymoon
03-06-2007, 12:05 PM
I believe picking Quinn will be a huge mistake! He underachieved at Notre Dame with an offensive-minded guru, so how is he going to overachieve with Kubiak that couldn't salvage David Carr?

The Texans have so many holes that require impact players.

I really don't care for Carr or if even he got cut, but I would rather have Carr as my starter next year than Quinn sitting on the bench waiting in the wings.

Drafting Quinn, locks us into another 5 years of a starter that didn't even prove himself at the college level.

Quinn is just Carr redux...

I am calling it now, the Texans draft Quinn, the Texans will not have a winning record in their first 10 years.

are you kidding me. we are generally in agreement on most things but to say Quinn didn't prove himself at the college level is just insane. If Notre Dame had an even average defense, Quinn would have a much better record against the top competition. Have you seen ND's schedule recently. It is far and away the toughest in Division1 football and he played well in almost every game. Blame the defense for his lack of victories against he USCs and Michigans of the world.

Quinn is a top QB talent whose only drawback is that he is somewhat shorter than I prefer.

real
03-06-2007, 12:14 PM
That arguement can also be turned around as well to say that the O-line made Carr look a lot worse than what he was.


Yeah, it can be said....


But that doesn't make it true...

thunderkyss
03-06-2007, 12:55 PM
Why? Quinn was running a pro offense. Hell, his coach ran a Super Bowl winning offense the year before he showed up. Quinn will go from day 1 if we get him. Also, our offensive line is no longer at historic lows, esspecially when healthy. Add a good blocking back in Ahman Green, and we might even see some throws downfield next season...:yes:

If Kubiak/Smith take him, I'm fine with that, that's all I'm saying.

But it's not only being able to run a pro offense, but being able to run that offense against an NFL Defense.

If LSU was too fast, Quinn might want to take that year with the clipboard.

texans83
03-06-2007, 12:56 PM
If Kubiak/Smith take him, I'm fine with that, that's all I'm saying.

But it's not only being able to run a pro offense, but being able to run that offense against an NFL Defense.

If LSU was too fast, Quinn might want to take that year with the clipboard.

I agree he needs to wait a year

hollywood_texan
03-06-2007, 01:10 PM
If LSU was too fast, Quinn might want to take that year with the clipboard.

Great point! All the more reason this isn't such a good pick for the Texans.

The pick in the 1st round this year needs to start the 1st game and provide immediate impact. We don't need another QB on the squad that needs more talent around him for him to succeed. I can already hear the same Carr excuses using Quinn's name instead...

That was a good LSU defense last year!

kastofsna
03-06-2007, 01:14 PM
LSU was too fast because they were much faster and better athletes than the players on his own team. there's no differential that large in the NFL between teams, not even close. quinn will actually perform better against good teams in the NFL than in college.

real
03-06-2007, 01:24 PM
I think Quinn will be able to start from day 1...


If we pass on Quinn I'll be a little upset....

hollywood_texan
03-06-2007, 01:26 PM
LSU was too fast because they were much faster and better athletes than the players on his own team. there's no differential that large in the NFL between teams, not even close. quinn will actually perform better against good teams in the NFL than in college.

Question: Do the Texans have enough talent so the same thing doesn't happen to Quinn as a Pro if he is a Texan?

real
03-06-2007, 01:28 PM
Question: Do the Texans have enough talent so the same thing doesn't happen to Quinn as a Pro if he is a Texan?

I guess what that Question really boils down to is, "do you think Quinn is better than Carr ?"

My answer: Yes

texans83
03-06-2007, 01:28 PM
Question: Do the Texans have enough talent so the same thing doesn't happen to Quinn as a Pro if he is a Texan?

with the cap room being 40mil next off season I say yes they will have enough talent by the )* season if they draft well. They will have enough cap space to aquire some key free aents next year.

kastofsna
03-06-2007, 01:29 PM
Question: Do the Texans have enough talent so the same thing doesn't happen to Quinn as a Pro if he is a Texan?
uh, yeah. they're an NFL team. plenty of speed and talent everywhere. especially at receiver. andre johnson? forget about it. the most talented receiver quinn had at notre dame was maurice stovall. snagged a few catches with the bucs last year. nothing special. didn't even play till week 12 or so. no team speed, no talent comparable to the bigger teams.

houston beat the colts this year, right? that should show you how parity works in the NFL.

texans83
03-06-2007, 01:29 PM
I guess what that Question really boils down to is, "do you think Quinn is better than Carr ?"

My answer: Yes
YEA!!!

texans83
03-06-2007, 01:31 PM
Also I think Quinn will be as good as Tom Brady IMO. All we can do is hope:ok:

Exithios
03-06-2007, 01:33 PM
I guess what that Question really boils down to is, "do you think Quinn is better than Carr ?"

My answer: Yes

Not only do I agree, but I think he will be better than Carr as a starter on his first day in the NFL. This kid had no weapons at ND so he had to carry his offense every game and then make up ground that the defense lost.

I don't see any question marks around Quinn.

real
03-06-2007, 01:35 PM
Not only do I agree, but I think he will be better than Carr as a starter on his first day in the NFL. This kid had no weapons at ND so he had to carry his offense every game and then make up ground that the defense lost.

I don't see any question marks around Quinn.

I'm reluctant to go there for the simple fact that Carr has been in the leauge for 5 yrs, so I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt...

What's scary, is that you may actually be right...

kastofsna
03-06-2007, 01:36 PM
quinn is almost a completely prototypical QB prospect. i guess he doesn't have a huge arm like russell so he's not "flashy" and thus there's nothing "exciting" about him to some people.

smart, heady, works hard, tall, good arm, accurate, strong, good athlete, leader, winner, productive, pro-offense experience....can't ask for much more...

real
03-06-2007, 01:40 PM
smart, heady, works hard, tall, good arm, accurate, strong, good athlete, leader, winner, productive, pro-offense experience....can't ask for much more...



I hate to agree with you....But I do...

santo
03-06-2007, 01:42 PM
quinn is almost a completely prototypical QB prospect. i guess he doesn't have a huge arm like russell so he's not "flashy" and thus there's nothing "exciting" about him to some people.

smart, heady, works hard, tall, good arm, accurate, strong, good athlete, leader, winner, productive, pro-offense experience....can't ask for much more...


I can see why Quinn would be a Carr II......................:sarcasm:

Trenches
03-06-2007, 01:44 PM
it takes a very special team to get to and/or win a Super Bowl without a good QB. Look at Chicago's defense and special teams. They carried that team to the SB after Grossman fell apart. And, of course, there is always Baltimore with Trent Dilfer.

Houston is no where near being that special of a team to win with a subpar QB. If you think you have a shot a taking QB who will win games for you for many years then you do it.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not sold on Quinn. But I'll also admit that I will let our FO do its job and won't bash them (too much) until they give me a reason to do so.

Just because we struck out with Carr doesnt mean we cant take a QB in the first again.

real
03-06-2007, 01:47 PM
And, of course, there is always Baltimore with Trent Dilfer.


Trent Dilfer and the Ravens Defense + Kerry Collins and the Giants Defense



= one of the worst Superbowls I've ever watched.

kastofsna
03-06-2007, 01:48 PM
i think carr was all of that in college. just didn't work out for him. i think it's a bit tough for a rookie QB to also assume the role of the face of a newly minted franchise. there's no chemistry at all anywhere on the team or in the coaching staff. i dunno how easy the development must be for those quarterbacks. but i can't really think of many QB's that had to go through the same situation. there was tim couch, and that didn't turn out so hot. he had some real issues in the coaching staff though, plus...he just wasn't worthy of the top pick anyway.

even if quinn and carr were the same prospect (which they aren't; quinn is better), they'd be entering far different situations. quinn would be setup for success far better than carr.

Trenches
03-06-2007, 01:53 PM
you would also like to think this team has learned its lesson and wouldnt throw Quinn to the wolves like they did Carr.

I want Carr to go because I think he will NEVER be a good QB again without some serious memory loss, but, I dont think it was all on him. Capers and Co. set him up to fail. Who knows how he turns out if he had a better line.

hollywood_texan
03-06-2007, 01:57 PM
houston beat the colts this year, right? that should show you how parity works in the NFL.

Are you making a joke? It took 5 years for the Texans to prove parity works? The Texans have beat the Colts 1 time in 10 tries. I don't think that fits the definition of parity in the NFL.

kastofsna
03-06-2007, 02:02 PM
Are you making a joke? It took 5 years for the Texans to prove parity works? The Texans have beat the Colts 1 time in 10 tries. I don't think that fits the definition of parity in the NFL.
well it took a few years to get up to speed with the rest of the NFL, yeah. but the year you DO beat the colts, it's the year they're super bowl champs.

the main reason you lost to the colts so much was because they've just been so good for the last 4-5 years. but the actual talent differential isn't that wide at all between houston and indianapolis these days. or arizona and chicago. or...whatever. it's how miami can lose by a few touchdowns to new england early in the season and then shut them out a few weeks later. new england winds up in the AFC Championship, miami's picking top 10.

thunderkyss
03-06-2007, 02:16 PM
well it took a few years to get up to speed with the rest of the NFL, yeah. but the year you DO beat the colts, it's the year they're super bowl champs.

the main reason you lost to the colts so much was because they've just been so good for the last 4-5 years. but the actual talent differential isn't that wide at all between houston and indianapolis these days. or arizona and chicago. or...whatever. it's how miami can lose by a few touchdowns to new england early in the season and then shut them out a few weeks later. new england winds up in the AFC Championship, miami's picking top 10.

ooh.... I hate to agree with you.....


but I do. :marionaner:

OrangeCountyTexansFan
03-06-2007, 03:55 PM
Yeah, it can be said....


But that doesn't make it true...
And vice versa. Your statement about Carr also does not make it true.
We've never seen what David can do with a great O-line in the NFL. And that is true. Our O-line has never been able to get over the hump to become average. They are always a little under every year.
If we don't look for O-line personell in FA and the draft, then we have the dumbest front office in the history of the NFL, IMO.

real
03-06-2007, 04:23 PM
And vice versa. Your statement about Carr also does not make it true.
We've never seen what David can do with a great O-line in the NFL. And that is true. Our O-line has never been able to get over the hump to become average. They are always a little under every year.
If we don't look for O-line personell in FA and the draft, then we have the dumbest front office in the history of the NFL, IMO.


We've never seen what our O-line can do with a great QB either....David's never been able to get over the hump to become average. He's always a little under every year. If we don't replace our QB either via Free agency or the draft we have the dumbest front office in the history of the NFL, IMO.


Ha...

Mr teX
03-06-2007, 04:33 PM
Let him sit for 1 year were not going anywhere, IMo it's the way incoming rookie Qb's should be developed. If we draft Quinn he can learn while we get better talent wise.

texans83
03-06-2007, 04:37 PM
Let him sit for 1 year were not going anywhere, IMo it's the way incoming rookie Qb's should be developed. If we draft Quinn he can learn while we get better talent wise.

thats what ive been saying, let him sit and next year we will have about 40 mil in cap room and hopefully this draft and next draft will be great. I look at our 08 season to be great, I think it will be a diffrent team then what we have now. Plus we will get to sign maybe one bit key play maker that we desire out of free agence. Cant wait.

Wolf
03-06-2007, 10:05 PM
Positives: Strong, well-built athlete with good body definition (rangy)…Sets up quickly and is ready to throw in an instant…Has good mechanics and an incredibly fast release… Shows accuracy on his long tosses and has a very lively arm in the short areas…Very composed under pressure, in the Brett Favre mold…Mature and confident field leader who is well-respected by teammates and very competitive with the opposition…Tactful in his actions, but will not hesitate to "correct" a teammate when needed.

Negatives: While he shows accuracy on his long passes, his arm strength is adequate, as he tends to arc his deep attempts…Holds the ball too long, inviting the sack, rather than dumping it off or throwing it away…Makes proper checks, but does not have a variety of throws…Needs to improve his pass drop, as he does a lot of three-step motion and will hold the ball a little too long, taking the sack rather than throwing it away.

dang you Capers dang you to HE double hockey sticks

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/2002draft/qbs/davidcarr.htm


I am not sold on quinn, his stats were horrible against top competition.

kiwitexansfan
03-06-2007, 10:20 PM
I get the feeling that they are positioning for a move on Quinn.

Bringing Quinn in is the only alternative that I am happy with, if we part ways with Carr.
As I have said all along I don't see Plummer, Rosenfels, Garcia, Ramsay etc being an upgrade to what we have. Carr is more talented (not more productive necessarily) than any of them.

Quinn I believe is a genuinely great QB prospect.

As for his 'failures' against better team, he played on an outgunned team against superior oppostion and tried a little hard to lift his team and made mistakes.

If we do get Quinn, trade or cut Carr, let Rosenfels take the job for a while till Quinn is properly prepared to play and then let Quinn do his thing.

Kaiser Toro
03-06-2007, 10:24 PM
dang you Capers dang you to HE double hockey sticks

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/2002draft/qbs/davidcarr.htm


I am not sold on quinn, his stats were horrible against top competition.

Scary stuff Wolf, every time I read it. Yet we still blame the o line for all of our transgressions.

mexican_texan
03-06-2007, 10:42 PM
Scary stuff Wolf, every time I read it. Yet we still blame the o line for all of our transgressions.
I blame air. It could do a better job of getting out of the way.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-06-2007, 11:21 PM
Negatives: While he shows accuracy on his long passes, his arm strength is adequate, as he tends to arc his deep attempts…Holds the ball too long, inviting the sack, rather than dumping it off or throwing it away…Makes proper checks, but does not have a variety of throws…Needs to improve his pass drop, as he does a lot of three-step motion and will hold the ball a little too long, taking the sack rather than throwing it away.


:whistle:

OrangeCountyTexansFan
03-07-2007, 02:29 PM
We've never seen what our O-line can do with a great QB either....David's never been able to get over the hump to become average. He's always a little under every year. If we don't replace our QB either via Free agency or the draft we have the dumbest front office in the history of the NFL, IMO.
I don't disagree with you. But I am able to see that David is not the only problem. I think you can see that too.

HuttoKarl
03-07-2007, 02:31 PM
Scary stuff Wolf, every time I read it. Yet we still blame the o line for all of our transgressions.


Who's that freakish man in your avatar? That's scary stuff.

Civil
03-07-2007, 05:10 PM
I think Quinn is going to be a flop or do no better than Carr is capable of. I say take a late round QB and give Sage a run at stardom.

kastofsna
03-07-2007, 08:51 PM
yeah quinn can't hold a candle to the almighty sage rosenfels.

Stros5Texans80
03-07-2007, 09:46 PM
I think Quinn is going to be a flop or do no better than Carr is capable of. I say take a late round QB and give Sage a run at stardom.

I just can't see that happening.

kastofsna
03-07-2007, 10:21 PM
hmm just had a long conversation with someone who pretty much ensured me that the vikings have no interest at all in quinn. he made a lot of good points...i'm buying it.

phan1
03-08-2007, 03:58 AM
I really like how we don't know what the world is going on in the front office. Why? Cause I'm sure they're doing it ON PURPOSE! Know one knows what the heck is going on with our QB situation and whether or not we really want to get rid of him. I just like that it seems like we are entertaining ALL OFFERS! If there is any deal that can make our team better, let's talk about it. It seems like we really have an open door policy when it comes to player acquisitions.

real
03-08-2007, 09:59 AM
hmm just had a long conversation with someone who pretty much ensured me that the vikings have no interest at all in quinn. he made a lot of good points...i'm buying it.

The Vikings would be stupid to take Quinn...

Tavaris Jackson is a beast.

kastofsna
03-08-2007, 10:25 AM
a beast, eh.

BleedTheBurntOrange
03-08-2007, 10:26 AM
he looked very beasty against green bay

freedoggy77
03-08-2007, 05:50 PM
i'm still for LaRon Landry