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View Full Version : Misguided Optimism rears its ugly head again


swtbound07
03-03-2007, 10:23 PM
I waited until i counted to ten....10 different posters predicting a 10 win season next year, if we roll with Carr and Sage battling it out, and maybe some better o-line and rb play. What kind of battle red crack pipe are you people hitting. 10 wins??? We threw for TWO touchdown passes in our last TEN GAMES. We crawled to six wins, and it took freak fate (i.e. kris brown hitting a field goal and david carr hitting a reciever) to beat indy. and we are going to be twice that good? With our big free agent signing of ________? I swear to god sometimes this Stay the course mantra wears thin. We aren't that close guys...I just hate to see people get their hopes up around this time of year, then get them brutally trampled on during the season. People last year on this date were predicting 12-4 with a straight face. Lets be real folks, our pumpkin isn't going to magically turn chariot overnight..we have to make some major changes or we will repeat the same results.

swtbound07
03-04-2007, 09:18 AM
oh yeah...and predicting 10 wins when we've never made it to 8 is kinda twisted as well. Im all for supporting the home team, but come on guys

TK_Gamer
03-04-2007, 09:26 AM
move pitts over to left tackle, winston right tackle, FA guard/tackle to fill pitts spot. trade up and take peterson in the draft, take QB in 2nd or 3rd round and MAKE Carr throw down the field all year long starting at training camp, and we get 10 wins, if the defense progresses with the young guys and kris brown is even moderately accurate we get 11-12 wins and a playoff spot, My oppinion.

swtbound07
03-04-2007, 09:27 AM
move pitts over to left tackle, winston right tackle, FA guard/tackle to fill pitts spot. trade up and take peterson in the draft, take QB in 2nd or 3rd round and MAKE Carr throw down the field all year long starting at training camp, and we get 10 wins, if the defense progresses with the young guys and kris brown is even moderately accurate we get 11-12 wins and a playoff spot, My oppinion.

if we trade up to get AP, then we don't have a 2nd or 3rd to draft a qb

brewhaus
03-04-2007, 09:42 AM
if we trade up to get AP, then we don't have a 2nd or 3rd to draft a qb

We don't need to trade up to get a running back. Michael Bush will be available at #8. People on this board need to stop sweating AP.....granted he is good but MB is every bit the running back AP is. JMO

TEXANRED
03-04-2007, 09:43 AM
if we trade up to get AP, then we don't have a 2nd or 3rd to draft a qb

Thats why we don't move up and keep all our draft picks. Strengthen our O and D lines.

I say we could have an 8-8 season.

Last year we lose the Washington game cus Thomas Johnson gets a personal foul on Orr's run back for a TD. We lose the Giants and Bills game cus Cook can't hang on to the football. We lost the first Titan game cus Stanley kicked right to Pacman.

We hung around in quit a few games last year, we just were not good enough to over come our mistakes.

Hopefully after this draft we can fill some holes and show we have something to be positive about.

beerlover
03-04-2007, 09:58 AM
look at it this way- are the Texans improved from their intitial expansion year (2002)?

yes :yes:

cornerstones @ WR (AJ) CB (DR) & DE (MW).

improved depth.

better coaching.

salary/cap structure improving towards the future.

kcwilson
03-04-2007, 10:28 AM
We don't need to trade up to get a running back. Michael Bush will be available at #8. People on this board need to stop sweating AP.....granted he is good but MB is every bit the running back AP is. JMO


The problem is that you can probably get Michael Bush with our 2nd round pick.... there is no need to go all Buffalo on the NFL and take someone so high just to make sure you get him.. there are greater values at the #8 than Michael Bush.

I think you don't see the Front Office targeting a safety or OT at this point because they have to assume they will be drafting at #8, and that is where you can pick up Landry or Levi Brown.... or one of a plethora of DL. So until something changes radically in the draft, the front office will continue to look to fill the positions they don't intend to fill in the draft (WR, QB, and apparently RB).

I am all for AP, but I don't se him falling all teh way to 8th. You'll get trade up scenarios on draft day if he is available at #4 through 6.

brewhaus
03-04-2007, 10:31 AM
The problem is that you can probably get Michael Bush with our 2nd round pick.... there is no need to go all Buffalo on the NFL and take someone so high just to make sure you get him.. there are greater values at the #8 than Michael Bush.

I think you don't see the Front Office targeting a safety or OT at this point because they have to assume they will be drafting at #8, and that is where you can pick up Landry or Levi Brown.... or one of a plethora of DL. So until something changes radically in the draft, the front office will continue to look to fill the positions they don't intend to fill in the draft (WR, QB, and apparently RB).

I am all for AP, but I don't se him falling all teh way to 8th. You'll get trade up scenarios on draft day if he is available at #4 through 6.

I appreciate your point of view, but MB will be gone by round 2. JMO again.

kcwilson
03-04-2007, 10:38 AM
I appreciate your point of view, but MB will be gone by round 2. JMO again.

I am curious who you think will take Michael Bush in teh first round. I can see him going early in the 2nd maybe, but who in the bottom half needs a RB as their first pick.

thunderkyss
03-04-2007, 10:40 AM
optimism, regardless how misguided is not a bad thing. Personally, I believe if we, the fans who don't know spit from shinola, can't be optomistic about our team, then how can the players??

We've got to be optomistic, so our cheers at reliant won't be empty.

I don't want to be excited about a team that believes 7-9 or 8-8 is to high an expectation.

I recall a team, not anymore talented than we are now, that went 4-12 in '05 go 10-6 in '07... & I don't believe they did that, thinking they'd be lucky to go 8-8. They did that, by believing they could win every game.

It's just my opinion, but I don't think our team should even suit up, if they don't think they can win on Sunday.

kcwilson
03-04-2007, 10:42 AM
I appreciate your point of view, but MB will be gone by round 2. JMO again.

I can see Cleveland, us, GB, maybe the Jets (I doubt it), and make the case for the Ravens, drafting a RB.... But I don't see us doing it if AP is off the board, I see GB taking the 2nd best back, Lynch... but the Jets and Ravens have other areas to focus on and I think there are better players at that level. After that, the reast of the teams have dual backs, and/or just drafted a 1st round back last year.

I don't see Bush in the first based on team needs and BPA.

houstonhurricane
03-04-2007, 11:26 AM
I think it is pretty clear that the team is focusing on Landry at number 8 unless AP somehow drops to us. Either they bring in a veteran qb to battle with Sage or spend a second/third on a qb. I really like AP and think he can be a stud; however, we cannot afford to trade one single draft pick this year to move up and grab him or to bring in Plummer...Just my opinion.

Exithios
03-04-2007, 11:51 AM
I do not beleive that we will be moving up, in fact, I beleive that the Texans front office is in the rebuilding phase with the cleaning house which looks to be in preperation for the 2008 season. Carr will be trade fodder (to who, for who is anybodies guess) and like Adam Schefter (sp?) said on NFL Network, "The Texans will take Brady Quinn at the #8 spot."

As much as I don't like the idea of this scenerio coming down on draft day, I can't help but beleive it is the likely scenerio. I do not think that the front office is poised for a playoff run in 07, but rather in 08.

TEXANRED
03-04-2007, 11:57 AM
I do not beleive that we will be moving up, in fact, I beleive that the Texans front office is in the rebuilding phase with the cleaning house which looks to be in preperation for the 2008 season. Carr will be trade fodder (to who, for who is anybodies guess) and like Adam Schefter (sp?) said on NFL Network, "The Texans will take Brady Quinn at the #8 spot."
As much as I don't like the idea of this scenerio coming down on draft day, I can't help but beleive it is the likely scenerio. I do not think that the front office is poised for a playoff run in 07, but rather in 08.
Every now and again he is wrong. Lets hope he's wrong. Please be wrong. I think this is one of those things where the Texans are trying to make the number 8 pick enticing. Make someone who wants Quinn to trade with us and acquire more draft picks. At least I hope so.

If not I hope AJ has a spot picked out for all of us to meet at for the riot.:tease:

threetoedpete
03-04-2007, 12:26 PM
Every now and again he is wrong. Lets hope he's wrong. Please be wrong. I think this is one of those things where the Texans are trying to make the number 8 pick enticing. Make someone who wants Quinn to trade with us and acquire more draft picks. At least I hope so.

If not I hope AJ has a spot picked out for all of us to meet at for the riot.:tease:

My only question is why all the negitivity towards Quinn ? What did the guy have 64 TDs to 14 interceptions the last two seasons ? The only guy besides Quinn who would of gotten a first round grade is Jeff Samaradzija off the ND team.
Why is it you don't like the guy becuase he played for ND ? The guy appears on the surface to be a Brady like canidate. If we are in the rebuilding mode and they've got a deep draft to fill sore spots why not take the second best QB in this class ?

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm


Said one astute, high-ranking evaluator, whose team has no need for a quarterback, of the draft's top two quarterbacks: “Physically, arm-strength-wise, there is no question who has the advantage. But if you want to talk about mental aptitude, ability to escape pressure and make good decisions, it's not even close. There is a big ‘miss’ factor on Russell. He had a lot of up-and-down games, and he makes a lot of bad decisions. He's sitting in the middle of the second round right now on our board. He'll never make it that far, but that’s where his value is. After Quinn, I would be sweating if I needed a quarterback from the rest of this crop.”



If Davis fails to land a veteran passer such as Houston’s David Carr, who has been thrown on the trading block after his struggles last year, or Byron Leftwich, who may be dealt despite Jack Del Rio’s statement that he is the Jaguars’ starter for 2007, don't be surprised if Quinn, not Russell, winds up becoming the first overall pick. Davis could be among those who are scared off by the red flags surrounding Russell and thus opt for Quinn. That could leave Russell, despite the concerns, falling only, like Young, to the No. 3 spot, where fellow Mobile, Ala., native and Browns GM Phil Savage would be waiting with open arms, the way we hear it.

Vinny
03-04-2007, 12:30 PM
Heck, this is nothing. Ibar Harry had a billion posts in 2002 prior to the games...all predicting that Carr leads us to the super bowl in his rookie year (you can't make this kind of stuff up)....poor Ibar hasn't been the same since then. I think he still has his "fire capers club" avatar.

Exithios
03-04-2007, 12:30 PM
My only question is why all the negitivity towards Quinn ? What did the guy have 64 TDs to 14 interceptions the last two seasons ? The only guy besides Quinn who would of gotten a first round grade is Jeff Samaradzija off the ND team.
Why is it you don't like the guy becuase he played for ND ? The guy appears on the surface to be a Brady like canidate. If we are in the rebuilding mode and they've got a deep draft to fill sore spots why not take the second best QB in this class ?

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm

I am not against getting Quinn myself, I am just sort of against not shoring up a more pressing need. But I am also sold on the fact that IF we were to get Quinn, the rest will fall into place by the 08 season. Man my head hurts LOL.

Ole Miss Texan
03-04-2007, 12:47 PM
I think it is pretty clear that the team is focusing on Landry at number 8 unless AP somehow drops to us. Either they bring in a veteran qb to battle with Sage or spend a second/third on a qb. I really like AP and think he can be a stud; however, we cannot afford to trade one single draft pick this year to move up and grab him or to bring in Plummer...Just my opinion.

Can you explain why you think this is pretty clear? I hope you're right because he' my favorite for the pick.

I think in the 2nd Ryan Kalil would do wonders for our team....he's smart and a perfect fit for us. It's highly doubtful he lasts there so I would use our 5th rounder to add to our 2nd rounder to move up a few spots.. the teams at the top of the 2nd look like they may take him... he's the only one i would spend an extra pick on and that's because he'd be here for a decade and we are desperate at C.

i'm not against quinn at this point but he's not my favorite. if he's there i think we pull the trigger and select him. i just really hope we get landry.

Back to what this thread is about.. I don't know what our record is going to be next year...i'd be thrilled with 8-8. Our FO is doing thing right and trying to build this up for the long haul...we're not spending freely during this FA because there is no reason to and we're not gonna make the playoffs in 07. They are still getting rid of the guys we don't need and dont need to pony up $$$ for. I expect to see Domanick out next...he's due like $5-6 million dollar salary on top of his 1mill bonus...too much for him.

they are freeing up a lot of cap space for us next year. we will have more than twice the amount we have this year. our team will slowly improve...throw in another good draft this year and next....next year's free agency when we have like 25 million...and then talk about playoffs.

I think we may get a winning record finally in 2008. i'm trying to 'real' here but i love the texans and hope they always win. i like what smith is doing here and think he's going to be the GM we wish we'd always had.

they did the ugly work last year that they had to and they still have to do it this year...next offseason is going to be fun fun fun!!

TexanBacker93
03-04-2007, 01:05 PM
We don't need to trade up to get a running back. Michael Bush will be available at #8. People on this board need to stop sweating AP.....granted he is good but MB is every bit the running back AP is. JMO

I think Bush will be available in the 2nd round. #8 is too high to take him.

thunderkyss
03-04-2007, 01:10 PM
Every now and again he is wrong. Lets hope he's wrong. Please be wrong. I think this is one of those things where the Texans are trying to make the number 8 pick enticing. Make someone who wants Quinn to trade with us and acquire more draft picks. At least I hope so.

If not I hope AJ has a spot picked out for all of us to meet at for the riot.:tease:

If we say we want Quinn, that makes the #7 position more valuable. Nobody is going to offer us anything to take our spot for a player we say we want.

brewhaus
03-04-2007, 01:52 PM
I think Bush will be available in the 2nd round. #8 is too high to take him.

He will be a primier running back in the league (again, only IMO). He will never make it to the second round.

HomeBred_Texan
03-04-2007, 02:06 PM
10 wins???? Man oh Man...

I just hope we can win 6 again next year... But I only predicted a 2 win season last year, so I wasn't let down by beating the Colts at all and tripling my expectations...

afcman
03-04-2007, 02:11 PM
we have to make some major changes or we will repeat the same results.

Yep. And I don't have any faith in Quinn, so we will probably get him. :redtowel:

I think we'll be doing alright if we just repeat from last year.

10 wins? :wheel:

HomeBred_Texan
03-04-2007, 02:13 PM
Yep. And I don't have any faith in Quinn, so we will probably get him. :redtowel:

I think we'll be doing alright if we just repeat from last year.

10 wins? :wheel:

I guess we could look at it this way, IF the Texans drafted Quinn, beer sells in Houston would go way up on Sundays... LOL :drunk:

Exithios
03-04-2007, 02:23 PM
I guess we could look at it this way, IF the Texans drafted Quinn, beer sells in Houston would go way up on Sundays... LOL :drunk:

I think folks are being a tad harsh on the kid, he seems to be a proven gamer in the Notre Dame pro-style offense. If he isn't an upgrade to Carr in 07, I think he will be in 08. Quinn will even be ready to go almost out of the box, if Carr/Sage aren't cutting it after the first couple of games.

This kid is tough as nails, like Carr, but he has a better deep ball and seems to be extremely football savy to boot.

He has an excellent drop back and shoot as compared to Carr's drop back and drink a cup of coffee.

I will not be happy that we spent our #8 on a QB, but it is not because of my lack of faith in Quinn's abilities.

TexanSam
03-04-2007, 02:35 PM
I see nothing wrong with optimism. We finished with a 6-10 record with the following problems:

1. David Carr was one of the worst QB's in the league the 2nd half of last season.
2. Until our final four games, we had no running game aside from the occasional fluke (Wali Lundy in our home win over Jacksonville).
3. We had guys named Lewis Sanders and Dexter McCleon get consistant playing time in the secondary. Those guys wouldn't get consistant playing time for an AFL team much less another NFL team (slight exaggeration).
4. We also had guys named Lionel Dalton and Anthony Maddox get playing time at DT.
5. We had no consistant pass rush from the D-line.
6. We had no contribution in the 2nd half of the season from the tight end positon when Owen Daniels appeared to hit the rookie wall.
7. Our offensive line, while not as bad as previous years, was still terrible. Brad Bedell, who looked like Victor Riley out there at times, played some. Salaam had to start 14 games. Spencer got hurt. Winston was thrown into the fire at RT. Flanagan couldn't get the job done at C. Weigert was hurt, etc...

Even with the above reasons (there's probably still more I could mention), we improved from 2-14 to 6-10 which is a nice first step. We didn't have a miraculous turnaround like the Saints, but nonetheless you could think of positives from last season. Now we aren't going to fill all the holes we have on the team in one offseason, but it's possible that you can fill at least 3 or 4. Pick 3 or 4, and while you'll still see glaring holes at other positions, you can also see a 4 game improvement. While I don't think it's likely that we go 10-6 next season, it's still possible. Sometimes optimism isn't always another word for crazy.

Please_Evolve
03-04-2007, 02:37 PM
Can you explain why you think this is pretty clear? I hope you're right because he' my favorite for the pick.

I think in the 2nd Ryan Kalil would do wonders for our team....he's smart and a perfect fit for us. It's highly doubtful he lasts there so I would use our 5th rounder to add to our 2nd rounder to move up a few spots.. the teams at the top of the 2nd look like they may take him... he's the only one i would spend an extra pick on and that's because he'd be here for a decade and we are desperate at C.

i'm not against quinn at this point but he's not my favorite. if he's there i think we pull the trigger and select him. i just really hope we get landry.

Back to what this thread is about.. I don't know what our record is going to be next year...i'd be thrilled with 8-8. Our FO is doing thing right and trying to build this up for the long haul...we're not spending freely during this FA because there is no reason to and we're not gonna make the playoffs in 07. They are still getting rid of the guys we don't need and dont need to pony up $$$ for. I expect to see Domanick out next...he's due like $5-6 million dollar salary on top of his 1mill bonus...too much for him.

they are freeing up a lot of cap space for us next year. we will have more than twice the amount we have this year. our team will slowly improve...throw in another good draft this year and next....next year's free agency when we have like 25 million...and then talk about playoffs.

I think we may get a winning record finally in 2008. i'm trying to 'real' here but i love the texans and hope they always win. i like what smith is doing here and think he's going to be the GM we wish we'd always had.

they did the ugly work last year that they had to and they still have to do it this year...next offseason is going to be fun fun fun!!

well put. I'd give you rep but gotta spread it around. I think that's a very fair assesment of our current situation far as a team goes. I agree waht Kubiak and Smit hare doing right now isn't pretty and some fans might not like it. But it's going to have to be done and i hope that they take the route of Levi Brown or Landry at the 8 spot. I think for our money those two will really help out either side of the ball.

VY's Crib U Jus payn Rent
03-04-2007, 02:52 PM
The Texsucksens won't even hit their 6 win totall from last year...

Caesar
03-04-2007, 05:38 PM
I see nothing wrong with optimism. We finished with a 6-10 record with the following problems:

1. David Carr was one of the worst QB's in the league the 2nd half of last season.
2. Until our final four games, we had no running game aside from the occasional fluke (Wali Lundy in our home win over Jacksonville).
3. We had guys named Lewis Sanders and Dexter McCleon get consistant playing time in the secondary. Those guys wouldn't get consistant playing time for an AFL team much less another NFL team (slight exaggeration).
4. We also had guys named Lionel Dalton and Anthony Maddox get playing time at DT.
5. We had no consistant pass rush from the D-line.
6. We had no contribution in the 2nd half of the season from the tight end positon when Owen Daniels appeared to hit the rookie wall.
7. Our offensive line, while not as bad as previous years, was still terrible. Brad Bedell, who looked like Victor Riley out there at times, played some. Salaam had to start 14 games. Spencer got hurt. Winston was thrown into the fire at RT. Flanagan couldn't get the job done at C. Weigert was hurt, etc...

All that is true, but my reason for NOT being optimistic is the fact that the Texans appear to be doing little or nothing to correct most of those problems. Especially # 1, which I think is the biggest issue given that it involves the most important position on the team. Carr, or the guy that could not win the job from Carr last year, or a rookie will not enable this team to improve on this year's 6-10 record.

NATHANHALE
03-04-2007, 05:52 PM
Not that there is anything easy... but this years schedule is a monster. With that said 8/8 would be a good way to measure us in the NFL. Now, will I bet on this.. NO. I think the jury is still out on our new head coach. Right now I'm still wondering what/why is this stuff happening. :texan:

...agree

Mr. White
03-04-2007, 07:29 PM
My only question is why all the negitivity towards Quinn ? What did the guy have 64 TDs to 14 interceptions the last two seasons ? The only guy besides Quinn who would of gotten a first round grade is Jeff Samaradzija off the ND team.
Why is it you don't like the guy becuase he played for ND ? The guy appears on the surface to be a Brady like canidate. If we are in the rebuilding mode and they've got a deep draft to fill sore spots why not take the second best QB in this class ?

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm

I'm with you on this one. I see Quinn slipping a little like Leinart slipped last year and then going on to have a great rookie year. I don't have a problem getting behind him.

Back to the topic...I think we're well within our rights to expect a playoff contender next year. Having said that, 8-8 usually is a playoff contender.

Double Barrel
03-04-2007, 09:18 PM
I don't think 9-7 is out of the question or reality-challenged optimistic. I think we should expect at least a .500 season.

There were 2-3 games in 2006 that could/should have been ours. The Bills game comes to mind, as does OT with the Titans. And 6-10 was with a team with huge needs and new systems and coaches, so thinking that we'll improve towards the 2007 is not that far fetched, IMO.

Looks like we're working towards a consistent running game with the Green signing, and I think we'll definitely see some improvement with our defense. We can with with this tried and true formula.

GNTLEWOLF
03-04-2007, 10:31 PM
:tease: Who is predicting 10 wins? After I saw the schedule for 2007, I predicted no more than 4 wins and I'm leaning toward 2 wins.:crying:

ericdoesntcare
03-05-2007, 12:47 AM
I am curious who you think will take Michael Bush in teh first round. I can see him going early in the 2nd maybe, but who in the bottom half needs a RB as their first pick.

I could see New England taking him at 28. They have the 24th pick, as well. With Dillon gone, a power back with speed would make sense. Having 2 picks so close together makes it easy to take a chance on a guy who very well could be the best back in this draft.

ericdoesntcare
03-05-2007, 12:49 AM
I do not beleive that we will be moving up, in fact, I beleive that the Texans front office is in the rebuilding phase with the cleaning house which looks to be in preperation for the 2008 season. Carr will be trade fodder (to who, for who is anybodies guess) and like Adam Schefter (sp?) said on NFL Network, "The Texans will take Brady Quinn at the #8 spot."

As much as I don't like the idea of this scenerio coming down on draft day, I can't help but beleive it is the likely scenerio. I do not think that the front office is poised for a playoff run in 07, but rather in 08.

If Quinn is available at 8, someone might want to trade up for him. Maybe the Dolphins would swap picks just to make sure they get him. I could see the Texans moving down and adding another pick or 2.