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Texans Pride
03-03-2007, 04:18 PM
Ok, with Garcia gone, and assuming that Plummer is off the market too, is there anyone else that would be worth picking up to replace Carr? I know we have Sage, but are the any other FA?

QB75
03-03-2007, 04:22 PM
Ok, with Garcia gone, and assuming that Plummer is off the market too, is there anyone else that would be worth picking up to replace Carr? I know we have Sage, but are the any other FA?

Neither of these two was worth picking up to replace Carr.

Texans Pride
03-03-2007, 04:25 PM
Neither of these two was worth picking up to replace Carr.

Well that's a matter of opinion and I think your opinion is wrong! :)

KennyHolmes99
03-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Harrington? lol

QB75
03-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Well that's a matter of opinion and I think your opinion is wrong! :)

Glad they are going elsewhere !

:highfive:

HomeBred_Texan
03-03-2007, 04:32 PM
Well that's a matter of opinion and I think your opinion is wrong! :)

And my opinion thinks your opinion is wrong... LOL

I don't want plummer or Garcia here...

Or Aaron Brooks, Kurt Warner, Drew Bledsoe, Joey Harrington, and on and on...

If we are not going to drive our Carr, then let's buy a new one and not some rusty bucket of bolts used one...

Texans Pride
03-03-2007, 04:35 PM
And my opinion thinks your opinion is wrong... LOL

I don't want plummer or Garcia here...

Or Aaron Brooks, Kurt Warner, Drew Bledsoe, Joey Harrington, and on and on...

If we are not going to drive our Carr, then let's buy a new one and not some rusty bucket of bolts used one...

I would be happy with the Texans drafting someone, and letting Sage keep take over for a couple of years. I just don't want to make the same mistake we did with Carr by throwing the new QB in right away.

At this point, I'd be happy if we traded Carr for something, or just cut him and saved room on the cap (if we would save cap money. . .this I am unsure about).

I just think that with everything that has been said and have happened, Carr can not come back and lead this team next year.

HomeBred_Texan
03-03-2007, 04:46 PM
I just think that with everything that has been said and have happened, Carr can not come back and lead this team next year.

I think of it as this way. 1 of 2 things will happen if Carr is our QB next year...

He will either be great, or a total bust... I don't see him being average at all...

And the reason for my thinking is because the heat is on now... Make no mistake about it... And David knows it. It is either be great as you were predicted, or be prepared to be tarred and feathered and ran out of town...

I personally would rather see him come back and be the next Dan Marino, but the question is, can it happen? :bubble:

HoustonFrog
03-03-2007, 04:50 PM
I think of it as this way. 1 of 2 things will happen if Carr is our QB next year...

He will either be great, or a total bust... I don't see him being average at all...

And the reason for my thinking is because the heat is on now... Make no mistake about it... And David knows it. It is either be great as you were predicted, or be prepared to be tarred and feathered and ran out of town...

I personally would rather see him come back and be the next Dan Marino, but the question is, can it happen? :bubble:


You are kidding right?The pressure should have bene on since Day 1 or when he was benched last season. If you are paying a guy a 8 mil bonus and he needs incentive to do well, there is a problem. He should have had incentive after the old regime left and people paid him. He should have had it after being the #1 pick and getting paid. "Make no mistake about it"..for 5 years the pressure has been on and he has failed.

Double Barrel
03-03-2007, 04:54 PM
I personally would rather see him come back and be the next Dan Marino, but the question is, can it happen? :bubble:

uhhhh...let's not get emotional about it.

Let's set our sights a little more realistic:

I personally would rather see him come back and be the next Trent Dilfer on a team with a stout defense and solid running game, but the question is, can it happen?

There, fixed it for ya'. :howdy:

HomeBred_Texan
03-03-2007, 04:59 PM
uhhhh...let's not get emotional about it.

Let's set our sights a little more realistic:

I personally would rather see him come back and be the next Trent Dilfer on a team with a stout defense and solid running game, but the question is, can it happen?


There, fixed it for ya'. :howdy:

ROFL, thanks for fixing my bad wording... Too funny....

Dime
03-03-2007, 05:11 PM
Sage we have for 1.5 mil... Carr expense is over 7m. He aint worth it. He aint worth 3 million. If he was at 2-3 million.. i wouldnt mind it as much.. He needs to be re-stuctured for this year, traded, or something.

Texans Pride
03-03-2007, 05:18 PM
Sage we have for 1.5 mil... Carr expense is over 7m. He aint worth it. He aint worth 3 million. If he was at 2-3 million.. i wouldnt mind it as much.. He needs to be re-stuctured for this year, traded, or something.

I agree Dime. . . He can not go into next season the exact same way he is right now....if he stays, then he should have to restructure.....

HomeBred_Texan
03-03-2007, 05:29 PM
I agree Dime. . . He can not go into next season the exact same way he is right now....if he stays, then he should have to restructure.....

I don't think you could find a fan of the Texans who would disagree with that. It should be restructured and loaded with incentives. But from a business stand point, meaning of David Carr's contract and him, would YOU or anyone else for that matter, terminate the contract that is binding with guaranteed money? I know I wouldn't... But it sure would make the fans a little more forgiving in the mean time...

I just think at this point, we as fans know we can either agree with the FO or disagree and lay it all out on the table as we see fit... But the truth of the matter is, We have very little say so on what goes on. Only our actions will speak louder than words. And as long as we continue to buy those season tickets, the FO runs the show...

Second Honeymoon
03-03-2007, 05:32 PM
Neither of these two was worth picking up to replace Carr.

Just getting rid of Carr The Crappy would be enough to improve the team. Sage is better than Carr, Jake is better, Garcia is better...for crying out loud Bledsoe is better. Carr is garbage. Time to get a new hero QB75.

d

Dime
03-03-2007, 06:16 PM
I agree... It would be unusual for him to restructure save one reason. Carr likes where he is and being on the Texans from what I see. Otherwise, he would be gone already. But here is the deal. He sees Kub as going to the playoffs and he his a good coach who has helped him alot already. If he did this, he would have another year to prove himself to Kub and Team. This would go along way with Kub I believe, and would give him an additional chance to prove himself.

I dont mind keepimg Carr. I do mind having him get 7-8 million for his current performance.

run-david-run
03-03-2007, 06:42 PM
I would be happy to keep Carr if he takes a Pennington-like contract change, which reduced his pay considerably, but loaded the contract with incentives that took a lot of the financial risk away from the team. But at $8M a year, it becomes much harder to accept his performances at QB.

HoustonFan
03-03-2007, 06:50 PM
From what I'm hearing, it sounds like everyone is cool w/ Carr staying provided a there is a restructuring of the contract. Not a bad idea. I still think the guy has some upside. Looking back, yeah i wih Vince would have been on the team, but since that didn't happen and there is no one else out there at this time... I'm just going to hope that Carr gets it together this season.

LoneStarState
03-03-2007, 07:26 PM
FI'm just going to hope that Carr gets it together this season.

How many more seasons will we have to hope he gets it together?

TexanFan881
03-03-2007, 07:30 PM
I'm convinced that Sage is the answer. The team looks up to him like a leader and he is solid, but his leadership attribute is the main reason I'd like to have him at QB. We haven't had that with Carr and we saw how Sage can lead a team when he almost brought us back into the Tennessee game after Carr threw it away. Sage is the answer - and I'm glad we didn't spend any money on Garcia or Plummer so we can use it at other positions.

kiwitexansfan
03-03-2007, 07:34 PM
No FA options that are an improvement including those already off the market.

If we lose Carr I would be for getting Quinn and letting Sage take the reins till Quinn is ready.

On Carr restructuring, in the Andre thread this was discussed and Hulk advised that Carr has never been asked to restructure. No harm in asking is there?

mexican_texan
03-03-2007, 07:38 PM
Nothing on the market, but maybe we can trade for a backup.

kiwitexansfan
03-03-2007, 07:41 PM
Nothing on the market, but maybe we can trade for a backup.

Trade for a back up???

Do you mean someone to be a backup in which case we have Sage.

Or do you mean to trade for someone elses back up in which case do you have any suggestions??

Luv Ya Blue 2007
03-03-2007, 07:49 PM
You are kidding right?The pressure should have bene on since Day 1 or when he was benched last season. If you are paying a guy a 8 mil bonus and he needs incentive to do well, there is a problem. He should have had incentive after the old regime left and people paid him. He should have had it after being the #1 pick and getting paid. "Make no mistake about it"..for 5 years the pressure has been on and he has failed.

You get'em Frog

mexican_texan
03-03-2007, 07:50 PM
Trade for a back up???

Do you mean someone to be a backup in which case we have Sage.

Or do you mean to trade for someone elses back up in which case do you have any suggestions??
Some other team's backup, maybe Kellen Clemens or Charlie Whitehurst.

Nighthawk
03-03-2007, 08:41 PM
I think of it as this way. 1 of 2 things will happen if Carr is our QB next year...

He will either be great, or a total bust... I don't see him being average at all...



What in Heaven's name has EVER HAPPENED to suggest Carr might be "great" at ANY TIME?

TwinSisters
03-03-2007, 09:09 PM
What in Heaven's name has EVER HAPPENED to suggest Carr might be "great" at ANY TIME?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20020908_DAL@HOU

Rookie quarterback David Carr came out heaving, throwing a touchdown for his first completion. He also hit Corey Bradford for a 65-yard touchdown early in the fourth quarter to beat the state rival Dallas Cowboys 19-10 in the first game in franchise history.

:cry2:

what could have been... what could have been.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/game/2002/week10.html
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20021013_BUF@HOU


David Carr
Carr spent much of his afternoon, especially the second half, running for his life, but he showed keen pocket presence on several scrambles, threw the ball away when he wasn't able to find open receivers and didn't turn the ball over. And his first quarter, 81-yard strike to Bradford was a thing of beauty. Man, does he have a cannon.

That pass from 2002 is still a career high for Carr.
While that first 65 yard strike tops his last two full seasons of play.

P.S.
That's Drew Bledsoe and Eric Moulds cutting it up on the other side of the field. Not to mention the high quality Bills coaching staff and super good offensive line that let Bledsoe get sacked 54 times on the season ( anchored by Mike Williams ). O yeah... and Henry ran for 1400 yards that season.

HoustonFrog
03-03-2007, 09:40 PM
From what I'm hearing, it sounds like everyone is cool w/ Carr staying provided a there is a restructuring of the contract. Not a bad idea. I still think the guy has some upside. Looking back, yeah i wih Vince would have been on the team, but since that didn't happen and there is no one else out there at this time... I'm just going to hope that Carr gets it together this season.


Not really. How is him even restructuring going to change the dynamic of this team?The same questions will exist. The same hope he will get it together will exist whether he plays or not and no matter what anyone says there will be a QB controversy that goes on depending on how each week progresses. That just isn't healthy for the team.

HomeBred_Texan
03-04-2007, 07:48 AM
Not really. How is him even restructuring going to change the dynamic of this team?The same questions will exist. The same hope he will get it together will exist whether he plays or not and no matter what anyone says there will be a QB controversy that goes on depending on how each week progresses. That just isn't healthy for the team.

Where have you been? It's because of the old coaching staff and never having a QB coach to help teach him. We have said this a million times in other threads...

I am not a supporter of any player, I am a supporter of the Houston Texans, MY football team... All I want is what is best for them and if they do by some miracle make a trade up with Detroit or something thinking AD will be there in the draft, I won't be against them taking CJ instead and trying to find a RB in the later rounds, like M Bush in the 2nd, if available... I will support whatever they do or decide on, rather I like it or not...

Silver Oak
03-04-2007, 10:17 AM
Not really. How is him even restructuring going to change the dynamic of this team?The same questions will exist. The same hope he will get it together will exist whether he plays or not and no matter what anyone says there will be a QB controversy that goes on depending on how each week progresses. That just isn't healthy for the team.


Let's allow the coaches, GM, and owner decide what is healthy for the team huh?

HoustonFrog
03-04-2007, 10:25 AM
Let's allow the coaches, GM, and owner decide what is healthy for the team huh?

Right, isn't this the same theory that got us in trouble with Casserly?Last year people were still saying he had made solid moves. This board is for discussing ideas and opinions, not sitting back and watching a team become the worst expansion franchise in NFL history.

HoustonFrog
03-04-2007, 10:33 AM
Where have you been? It's because of the old coaching staff and never having a QB coach to help teach him. We have said this a million times in other threads...
I am not a supporter of any player, I am a supporter of the Houston Texans, MY football team... All I want is what is best for them and if they do by some miracle make a trade up with Detroit or something thinking AD will be there in the draft, I won't be against them taking CJ instead and trying to find a RB in the later rounds, like M Bush in the 2nd, if available... I will support whatever they do or decide on, rather I like it or not...

Excuse, excuse, excuse. If that was the case then how come Palmer was snatched up by the Cowboys to coach Romo and had worked with Bledsoe and others in the past. If that was the case how come Capers and Pendry both coached up Kerry Collins and they went into the playoffs within a few years with the Panthers. I'm not letting them off the hook for what happened to this team but it is really becoming tiring that people think you can just pay a QB all of this money and then expect him not to be accountable and ask for the perfect line, WRs, RBs, etc. Where have some of you been?I've been watching since the 70s and have seen the Todd Blackledges and Ken O'Briens of the world get picked ahead of Marino only to fail. It isn't a sin for a 1st rounder to fail at QB and it isn't a sin to want the team to split ways so BOTH parties have a fighting chance to succeed.

Please_Evolve
03-04-2007, 12:26 PM
I'm convinced that Sage is the answer. The team looks up to him like a leader and he is solid, but his leadership attribute is the main reason I'd like to have him at QB. We haven't had that with Carr and we saw how Sage can lead a team when he almost brought us back into the Tennessee game after Carr threw it away. Sage is the answer - and I'm glad we didn't spend any money on Garcia or Plummer so we can use it at other positions.

So you're telling me a guy that hasn't been able to overturn the QB spots in abd QB situations before in Washington and Miami is suddenly going to step in and light it up. One good half of football and you think he's the answer at QB? Right while you're at it let's just resign Commander Cody. Sage is a solid back up nothing more.

Still think Rohan Davey would be a great project player to look at from Arizona or i wouldn't mind Kyle Orton from the bears.If we're looking to draft a Qb... i don't mind Quinn at 8 i guess. I think Stanton wouldn't be a bad choice either. IF Kolb is there in the third...i'd take a look but Mebane from California looks better to me in the third.

HoustonFrog
03-04-2007, 12:45 PM
So you're telling me a guy that hasn't been able to overturn the QB spots in abd QB situations before in Washington and Miami is suddenly going to step in and light it up. One good half of football and you think he's the answer at QB? Right while you're at it let's just resign Commander Cody. Sage is a solid back up nothing more.

Still think Rohan Davey would be a great project player to look at from Arizona or i wouldn't mind Kyle Orton from the bears.If we're looking to draft a Qb... i don't mind Quinn at 8 i guess. I think Stanton wouldn't be a bad choice either. IF Kolb is there in the third...i'd take a look but Mebane from California looks better to me in the third.

And Romo was a career third stringer and Warner was in the arena league. I'll wait to judge when a guy gets a chance to start in a system that he seems to thrive in. Most are saying we are just warming up the spot for a younger guy anyways. Why not see?

Please_Evolve
03-04-2007, 01:07 PM
And Romo was a career third stringer and Warner was in the arena league. I'll wait to judge when a guy gets a chance to start in a system that he seems to thrive in. Most are saying we are just warming up the spot for a younger guy anyways. Why not see?

Romo was a four year guy behind the same system and was more under the radar out of North Dakota? Didn't he do well in D 2 ball? IMO the jury is still out on Romo.

I'll give you Warner...total shot in the dark there. But i do think being from the AFL and being put in Martz's scheme fit well. Especially with that receiver tandem he was given and Faulk as the RB. Couldn't have happened to a much better guy though.

HomeBred_Texan
03-04-2007, 01:22 PM
Excuse, excuse, excuse. If that was the case then how come Palmer was snatched up by the Cowboys to coach Romo and had worked with Bledsoe and others in the past. If that was the case how come Capers and Pendry both coached up Kerry Collins and they went into the playoffs within a few years with the Panthers. I'm not letting them off the hook for what happened to this team but it is really becoming tiring that people think you can just pay a QB all of this money and then expect him not to be accountable and ask for the perfect line, WRs, RBs, etc. Where have some of you been?I've been watching since the 70s and have seen the Todd Blackledges and Ken O'Briens of the world get picked ahead of Marino only to fail. It isn't a sin for a 1st rounder to fail at QB and it isn't a sin to want the team to split ways so BOTH parties have a fighting chance to succeed.

You are just looking for an arguement and won't get it from me...

An excuse is when you make up a lie cause you don't know the truth... A Fact is the truth because you just can't lie...

The fact is, we have never hired just a QB coach, Plain and simple... I said I don't want a broken down old guy coming in here and being a band-aid patch to fix problems we all know we have. Let's put in 1 stitch at a time till the wound is completely closed and not bleeding...

Ole Miss Texan
03-04-2007, 01:32 PM
so who's going to be our new qb coach once 'boy wonder' shanahan steps up to offensive coordinator?:stirpot:

Ole Miss Texan
03-04-2007, 02:25 PM
Question...

So did Tampa Bay sign Jeff Garcia and then try to trade for Plummer so Oakland couldn't get either? If oakland doesnt get a qb in FA....they have that much more pressure to draft a QB #1 overall like Jamarcus or even Quinn.

Did tampa do this to increase their chances in Calvin Johnson falling to them at #4? if so they are pretty smart.

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2007, 03:20 PM
Hey Frog.. there is no upside to Carr hating. After 1,500 post's blaming Carr. Why didn't you learn that football is a team sport, after all the years watching it on TV.. this year Super bowl win wasn't because of Manning alone, not even the offense could do it, the defense needed to bring up their game. One last thing.. if it is to build up you're post count .. go for it. The fans here, won't care we see it happening all day long. We might laugh, after a win to see the haters still slinging mud.. but no worries mate.:texan:

I build my post count by commenting on those that build their post count by commenting on others building their post count. It is a pyramid scheme. :mario:

HoustonFrog
03-04-2007, 03:24 PM
Hey Frog.. there is no upside to Carr hating. After 1,500 post's blaming Carr. Why didn't you learn that football is a team sport, after all the years watching it on TV.. this year Super bowl win wasn't because of Manning alone, not even the offense could do it, the defense needed to bring up their game. One last thing.. if it is to build up you're post count .. go for it. The fans here, won't care we see it happening all day long. We might laugh, after a win to see the haters still slinging mud.. but no worries mate.:texan:

You are kidding right?I'm one of many people on here that is actually thinking about the TEAM. First of all, if you ever read my posts, there is no "hating." the only hate comes from the blind loyalty of some fans that don't know a thing about football, just that they think Carr is the man. Obviously I've hit a nerve. Maybe if the Carr fans would explain the obsession I'd be apt to listen but so far no one can give a legit reason. I've said all along that I was a big fan of Carr until a year or two ago and now my main goal is to have the Texans and Carr in situations where they BOTH can thrive. I've repeated this ad naseum. The one thing you and others will never get is part of a team is having all parts working together towards one goal. Right now we have an owner that said he wanted to upgrade; a coach and GM who are basically saying Carr is their "if I have to" QB but would upgrade if need be. A now ex player and a current player have both said that the TEAM needs a change. Other ex players like Gary Walker and others who have left said they thought QB was a downfall. This isn't ME saying it, it is people who have practiced with, seen and played with Carr. The QB is one of the most important positions in sports. He is getting paid more than most on the team to elevate others, not vice versa. We shouldn't be spending all our money on players that need to upgrade his game. As Moulds said, sometimes you need a guy to make others better. How is that hating and how is that not about the team?If people on this board were truthful about the situation instead of selfish in their desire to see a guy stay and prove others wrong they would readily admit that what is best for Carr and us is to have fresh starts and hopefully we ALL succeed. If you think the fighting between fans, management and in the lockerroom is about TEAM then you need to go back to football 101.

P.S.--I don't build my post count by belittling others and telling everyone they are "Carr lovers" or attacking everyone. It is a message board for opinions and right now, this situation is first and foremost.

Also, I don't take this personally and since I figure most fans are just passionate, I don't mind debate or think anything about them. I'd prefer if the offseasons were FA and draft talk and not this same subject. Not good for team karma.

Napa Auto Parts
03-04-2007, 05:57 PM
if no garcia we have a capable QB in Sage and we have a David as back up not to bad.

HomeBred_Texan
03-04-2007, 06:24 PM
I build my post count by commenting on those that build their post count by commenting on others building their post count. It is a pyramid scheme. :mario:

So I need to reply to this, but don't know exactly what to say...

Navy_Chris
03-04-2007, 06:26 PM
Ok, with Garcia gone, and assuming that Plummer is off the market too, is there anyone else that would be worth picking up to replace Carr? I know we have Sage, but are the any other FA?

I honestly don't see anything wrong with starting the season with Sage.

Airbledsoe11
03-04-2007, 06:38 PM
With Plummer and Garcia gone, Drew Bledsoe now must come intro the equation for some teams.

HoustonFrog
03-04-2007, 06:45 PM
Now you think I'll get into a pissing contest with ya? Wrong. You give yourself away.. just read what you wrote to me. Pay attention to words like: hate, you definition is it only come from the blind loyalty of some fans who don't even a thing about football.

Seriously, you need to reassess why we are all here and why you are here. I've never come here to mess with people or to start fights. For the most part I don't think I've ever picked a fight on here or tried to be an @ss to anyone. I've been consistent and have gone out of my way to be cordial to other posters while debating. I'd like to think my rep on here is pretty good. I'll admit that one person has tried this same approach last year and since then I backed off...Hulk. If my goal was to get up my post count I'd post alot during the regular season but for the most part I will make a few comments and give most of my thoughts in the off-season. I never said you were the person with no football knowledge. I said there are plenty who come out and throw out barbs but when I ask them for debatable points they run. There is nothing in my post above that is rude to you or that isn't grounded in football knowledge. It is my opinion. Right now the only difference I see is that I don't hunt down people with a differing opinion and call them out. The person who needs to re-read this thread is you. You attacked me for an opinion that has never been grounded in hate and has always been grounded in what I think the team needs. If you can explain why the examples I laid out above make for a good team environment, more power to ya but right now, it only seems relevant to you that I may dislike Carr. Good evening and have a good week.

Texans Pride
03-04-2007, 07:48 PM
Seriously, you need to reassess why we are all here and why you are here. I've never come here to mess with people or to start fights. For the most part I don't think I've ever picked a fight on here or tried to be an @ss to anyone. I've been consistent and have gone out of my way to be cordial to other posters while debating. I'd like to think my rep on here is pretty good. I'll admit that one person has tried this same approach last year and since then I backed off...Hulk. If my goal was to get up my post count I'd post alot during the regular season but for the most part I will make a few comments and give most of my thoughts in the off-season. I never said you were the person with no football knowledge. I said there are plenty who come out and throw out barbs but when I ask them for debatable points they run. There is nothing in my post above that is rude to you or that isn't grounded in football knowledge. It is my opinion. Right now the only difference I see is that I don't hunt down people with a differing opinion and call them out. The person who needs to re-read this thread is you. You attacked me for an opinion that has never been grounded in hate and has always been grounded in what I think the team needs. If you can explain why the examples I laid out above make for a good team environment, more power to ya but right now, it only seems relevant to you that I may dislike Carr. Good evening and have a good week.


Frog, I wouldn't put to much stock into Caddy. If you look at his post history, most of them are filled with smart remarks aimed at people he doesn't agree with. I went through the same thing with him, and writing till I was blue in the face never made a difference.