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View Full Version : Does anyone else get the sense this team is doomed?


Nighthawk
03-03-2007, 05:55 AM
I watched a couple of the NFL shows tonight. Texans doing nothing, as usual. Apparently could not get the Plummer thing done, not a serious contender for Garcia, not in any of the O-line talk, basically nowhere to be seen. You'd think that if you had one of the worst teams in the league you'd be out there signing heroes left and right, wouldn't you?

Needs:

QB
RB
OL
DL
LB
DB

Acqusitions:




Oh yeah. It's the Texans.

TexanExile
03-03-2007, 07:31 AM
I think history--and the Morlon Greenwood signing--have taught us that sometimes the Texans doing nothing is better than them doing something early in the free agency period.

So no, I don't think the team's doomed.

http://www.csupomona.edu/~jskoga/dontpanic_145.jpg

HuttoKarl
03-03-2007, 07:39 AM
It's the first freakin' day. Chill out.

RTP2110
03-03-2007, 07:43 AM
Let's be glad if the Texans are not players in free agency. I'm sure you've noticed, but that whole free agency thing hasn't exactly worked out for the Texans. Ever. Weigert, Wade, Greenwood, Weaver, etc...Until the Texans become a winner, and a place where high profile players want to come they will be stuck with mediocre talent signings in free agency. Until the Texans become winners, they'll have to build throught the draft. Last year was a good start, let's hope they keep it going this year.

Nighthawk
03-03-2007, 07:44 AM
It's the first freakin' day. Chill out.


That was my point. The first day. Where the power players are. Where real help is available for your line, your DB, etc etc.

But we sit on our hands.

Penny wise.

Well, except for Carr and a half-dozen others.

Trenches
03-03-2007, 07:48 AM
Its frustrating that Houston is STILL an expansion team after all theses drafts. AND they have very little cap room because they are cutting below average players with high salaries.

Honoring Earl 34
03-03-2007, 07:48 AM
The Texan don't have a lot of money to spend .

The worst thing they could do is spend foolishly like they have in the past .

TEXANRED
03-03-2007, 07:53 AM
Must be that time of year. Seems to me that Nighthawk only comes around during FA, Draft, Training camp.

We are not doomed. We are playing smart. We do need a whole new team but throwing money at one or two high dollar FA is not going to turn this team around, nor trading for guys who are not in our long term plans that will cost us a draft pick. Keep in mind for every one Drew Brees you can point to 10 Culpeppers and Hartwells.

Spending high dollars on FA does not guarantee you a shot at winning. Just look at our past signing for evidence. They are the reason we can't go out and shop this year.

If anything, the Texans are in a position to trade down five or so spots and still pick up a quality player that will help this football team and acquire a few more draft pics.

Doing it right takes time and effort, we should get a mulligan for the first four years due to Capers and Casserly not knowing how to run a football team. Look at the Eagles, Colts, Patriots. Year after year these guys are contenders and they are always losing people in FA. They replace them each year with solid drafts due to a great scouting department. Hopefully Rick Smith has his scouting department under control and can make a well informed decision.

We will be fine. Its going to be a good year, or at least productive and competitive.

texansfan1974
03-03-2007, 08:12 AM
We are not in that bad of shape. We tripled the win total in 1 year. We were just 3 wins away from a winning season last year. Buffalo (last play of the game) New York football Giant (fumble on game winning drive) Titians (over time we all know happened there). My point is that a few quality FAs and a good draft, we could be right in the thick of things this year.
GO TEXANS!!!:texan:

keyfro
03-03-2007, 08:15 AM
well i think we're doing FA right this season...i'm kinda glad we don't have the cap to go nuts...look at some of the signings of yesterday and you'll see why

clements 80 million
steinbach 50 mill
dockery 49 mil
patrick chuckawaruah(don't know don't care to spell his name right) got 5.5 mill

while the first three guys are solid starters and potential pro bowlers at their position would you take nate clements over champ bailey no...would you take either one of those guards over steve hutchinson no...and definetly would not pay a guy 5.5 mil to play a position he hasn't played in the nfl

HJam72
03-03-2007, 08:16 AM
Every year good teams fill voids through the draft and bad teams over pay free agents, hoping to ignite a spark. The good teams seem to stay good and the bad ones usually stay bad. If they are free agents that we can actually get, it's probably because their team didn't think they were worth what they demanded.

Here's to hoping for another great draft.

HuttoKarl
03-03-2007, 08:19 AM
Free agency should be about signing a couple key guys to set up the draft. Lelie and Green could be those key guys to set up a draft that fixes the defensive backfield, gets a QB, and fills some space on the lines.

alphajoker
03-03-2007, 08:24 AM
I watched a couple of the NFL shows tonight. Texans doing nothing, as usual. Apparently could not get the Plummer thing done, not a serious contender for Garcia, not in any of the O-line talk, basically nowhere to be seen. You'd think that if you had one of the worst teams in the league you'd be out there signing heroes left and right, wouldn't you?

Needs:

QB
RB
OL
DL
LB
DB

Acqusitions:

Oh yeah. It's the Texans.

Those needs will be taken care of in the draft. Something tells me that the Texans will be able to trade down, get multiple draft picks and pick up the player they target, whether it's Landry, Brown or even Okoye, which I would be very happy with.

Trenches
03-03-2007, 08:25 AM
Those needs will be taken care of in the draft. Something tells me that the Texans will be able to trade down, get multiple draft picks and pick up the player they target, whether it's Landry, Brown or even Okoye, which I would be very happy with.

I would like a trade down. the problem is I could see teams ahead of Houston wanting to trade down as well.

I don't think there will be a player there at #8 we cant live without.

Silver Oak
03-03-2007, 08:35 AM
I don't think any of us work in the FO of the Texans so there's no way we can tell which players and agents they are in conversation with.

We'll get our deals done if they're there to be made, or we'll acquire through the draft.

Go over to other teams sites with more money to spend than the Texans....those fans are very restless as well.

MightyTExan
03-03-2007, 08:47 AM
We should at least sign one OL from a good team (Pats,Chargers, etc..).
:pigfly:

dirty steve
03-03-2007, 09:09 AM
in addition to morlon greenwood, todd wade should be another reason why it's prudent to wait around. you couldnt really expect us to be major players for guys like clements or steinbach, right? i still would really like hamlin.

brewhaus
03-03-2007, 09:15 AM
The Texans surely aren't "tipping their hand" to any one. There is an article of top free agents on ESPN now and the only place the Texans name show up as a possiblity is next to Ken Hamlin.

I do not think we are doomed. But we are still several years out from contending for any post season play.

Wolf
03-03-2007, 09:27 AM
I thought about that to nighthawk, but after a good night sleep, my thinking is this, we are still in rebuilding mode after the previous staffs oversignings/draft mistakes....I think what we are doing now is good. we are clearing out the people that are getting overpaid and trying to get our cap situation undercontrol for the 2008 season.. people we released, we weren't getting enough bang for the buck. With a good draft (hopefully) we get more of the kubiak type players and 2008 if we need a slot or two filled, that is when we go after the FA types and overpay to hopefully make a move to challenge for the afc south title

now I am not saying 2007 is lost and think with a good draft ,I think we will move ahead of .500 mark, but I think we are being smart and clearing dead weight

infantrycak
03-03-2007, 09:28 AM
patrick chuckawaruah(don't know don't care to spell his name right) got 5.5 mill

and definetly would not pay a guy 5.5 mil to play a position he hasn't played in the nfl

Agree with your overall point, but Chukwurah has primarily been a LB--and was one briefly for the Texans. He has played a little situational pass rusher from DE for the Broncos but from their site:

A sixth-year linebacker whose speed also has been utilized at defensive end in pass-rush situations with the Broncos (2004-05) and Vikings (2001-02).

Claimed off waivers by Houston 2/28/03; Waived by Houston 8/31/03

Link (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=1882)

Carr Bombed
03-03-2007, 09:32 AM
Holy crap........am I the only one on this damn board that is happy we didn't jump like a suicidal teenager at the overpriced FAs on the first day.

We've done it before and have nothing to show for it.

Both T. Wade and R. Smith were top ten signings........guess what, we signed them both, awesome and I mean AWESOME.......what do we have to show for it..........NOTHING..............."crickets"........Dead cap........"crickets".......dead cap............................................... ............................................and just when you got tired of the dead cap, try this on for size, yes you've got it.............. MOOORREEE Dead cap.

I'm happy the Texans aren't throwing away money, what the hell do you want the Texans to do, throw away 80 mil to clements (not worth it) I'm glad we are sitting still and waiting, and if your paying attention so is 90% of the rest of the league

Erratic Assassin
03-03-2007, 09:49 AM
We are not in that bad of shape. We tripled the win total in 1 year.

That's not nearly as impressive as it sounds. It's not hard to triple 2 wins. We went 7-9 the year before the 2-14 season.

David's Busted Carr
03-03-2007, 10:22 AM
Let's be glad if the Texans are not players in free agency. I'm sure you've noticed, but that whole free agency thing hasn't exactly worked out for the Texans. Ever. Weigert, Wade, Greenwood, Weaver, etc...Until the Texans become a winner, and a place where high profile players want to come they will be stuck with mediocre talent signings in free agency. Until the Texans become winners, they'll have to build throught the draft. Last year was a good start, let's hope they keep it going this year.

This guy nailed it. This is the first offseason with Rick Smith running the show and not "you know who". Seeing how bad they have been BURNED in the past and are still eating close to 20 mill in dead money, they are playing it very cautious.

Besides I really don't think there are that many game changing players available this offseason. Clements and Thomas are the only ones and IMO they were way overpaid. Clements the highest defensive contract in NLF HISTORY. Come on....

Your team is built by the DRAFT, not free agency. Free agency mostly benefits the teams that are one or two pieces away and need that "one player" to push them over. NE is a prime example. I really think by adding A.Thomas and a legit #1 WR in free agency they will be back in the Super Bowl.

So I'm glad they are quiet. Let some of our dead money die off, sign some "value" free agents. Lelie would be a fine #2 WR. Maybe Cooper Carlisle as an OL and possibly Ken Hamlin as a S. But STAY AWAY from the high price bonanza!

aj.
03-03-2007, 10:45 AM
Holy crap........am I the only one on this damn board that is happy we didn't jump like a suicidal teenager at the overpriced FAs on the first day.



No. There's a lot of us. It's not like the Texans could have realistically competed in that calf scramble anyway...

...and it's not just Clements and Steinbach, Derrick Dockery's deal is crazy as is giving London Fletcher a $10.5 million signing bonus and $13 mil guaranteed his first two seasons. But that's the cost of free agency.

How much anyone want to bet that Cleveland, Buffalo and Washington are not in the playoffs next year...

Spled
03-03-2007, 10:48 AM
We beat the Colts a month before they won the Super Bowl. That was promising.

TexanBacker93
03-03-2007, 10:57 AM
I've also felt that the good franchises continue to get better through the draft while making very little splashes in free agency. The bad franchises try to better their teams with huge signings in free agency and stay bad because they are overpaying for average players. Clements just got the largest contract ever for a defensive player. He's better than Urlacher, Strahan, Bailey, Rice, Freeney, Peppers, Lewis, or Reed? He's never made a pro bowl. 2 years ago the Vikings gave a ton of money to Fred Smoot. They just cut him loose because he's been a bust. The first 4 years of this franchise was filled with the same garbage. I think it's time to change.

I'm perfectly happy if the Texans stick to a couple of players that won't cost them $7 million a year and have another solid draft. Let the 49ers, the Bills, and the Browns overspend. The Texans have better things to do.

It just popped in my head to look up the numbers, but I remember a lot of people last year being upset with the Texans when the team let a "stud" receiver like David Givens leave after his visit rather than give him the $25 million the Titans forked over. His final season statistics: 8 catches for 104 yards. I realize he had an ACL tear in the 5th week, but still, that's not very good return on their investment.

Yankee_In_TX
03-03-2007, 11:14 AM
Its frustrating that Houston is STILL an expansion team after all theses drafts. AND they have very little cap room because they are cutting below average players with high salaries.

Our biggest problem, IMO, since inception, is having too many average players with above average salaries. That can be traced to the root of a lot of our problems.

Marcus
03-03-2007, 11:27 AM
Let's not forget that it's Nighthawk that started this thread. He's going to see nothing but gloom and doom as long as Carr is still on the team.

When he's finally gone, he'll cheer up . . . and go away. (hopefully)

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm not worried, yet. I didn't expect us to go after the big name guys and frankly, it's fairly rare for those big name guys to perform as well for their new teams.

Consider what a great job Smith did during the season in getting off the street talent to play for us. Let's let him work his mojo and see if he can bring in some unknowns we've never heard of and that most of us will ***** and moan about, not have to over-pay for them, and then have them actually step up and perform during the regular season. That's what I'm hoping for.

I'm going to try to not get worried until the reports start coming back from Training Camp.

Vinny
03-03-2007, 12:21 PM
This team isn't doomed...but it is a clear view of what happens when you make mistakes in talent evaluation in the salary cap era. In the past you could out spend your mistakes if your pockets were deep enough. Today, that is not the case with a hard cap as you can hurt your team for a good half a decade if you have clueless leadership making the wrong calls over and over for a couple of years.

Marcus
03-03-2007, 12:28 PM
I'm not worried, yet. I didn't expect us to go after the big name guys and frankly, it's fairly rare for those big name guys to perform as well for their new teams.

Consider what a great job Smith did during the season in getting off the street talent to play for us. Let's let him work his mojo and see if he can bring in some unknowns we've never heard of and that most of us will ***** and moan about, not have to over-pay for them, and then have them actually step up and perform during the regular season. That's what I'm hoping for.

I'm going to try to not get worried until the reports start coming back from Training Camp.

What he did during the season is what greatly impressed me, too. Granted, we had first dibs on the waiver wire, but I don't think it was all that. I'm looking forward to seeing what Smith can do with his first NFL draft, and how many addtional picks he can get before the draft.

I'm optimistic about it myself.

Marcus
03-03-2007, 12:32 PM
And FWIW, I'm beginning to think that . . . (this not only applies to the Texans, but to all NFL teams)

. . . improving the team through free agency is overrated.

Texans_Chick
03-03-2007, 12:35 PM
What don't kill you, makes you stronger.

QB75
03-03-2007, 12:43 PM
I watched a couple of the NFL shows tonight. Texans doing nothing, as usual. Apparently could not get the Plummer thing done, not a serious contender for Garcia, not in any of the O-line talk, basically nowhere to be seen. You'd think that if you had one of the worst teams in the league you'd be out there signing heroes left and right, wouldn't you?

Needs:

QB
RB
OL
DL
LB
DB

Acqusitions:




Oh yeah. It's the Texans.

Doomed.... yeah, sure. Because they took no action on Day 1 it's over. Get real.

wolfscar
03-03-2007, 12:49 PM
Holy crap........am I the only one on this damn board that is happy we didn't jump like a suicidal teenager at the overpriced FAs on the first day.

Nope. These contracts are absurd and the LAST thing we need is more ridiculous money to someone we hope will answer all our players. No one player's gonna do that. We have so many spots to fill, we can't afford to go after someone like Clements - we need a number of good, solid players instead - ones who aren't going to cost a fortune.

There's some decent talent left in FA that haven't been linked with anyone yet. I'd like to see us pick up one of the talented Colts that went to FA, like Mike Doss, Nick Harper or Rocky Boiman. Or Maybe Rick DeMulling at Guard.

There's still a lot of help for us out there and money is tight, so chill - if we have to move fast to snag a player then we can't afford him.

One thing I WOULD like to see right now is what the Panthers have been doing - restructure some of those weighty contracts. We've dropped some but there's more yet taking up space from players who haven't justified a high dollar value. Like our illustrious number 8, for example ... Let's do that, then we have some more room to manouevre.

wolfscar
03-03-2007, 12:58 PM
We beat the Colts a month before they won the Super Bowl. That was promising.

Thankyou - I can't believe how quickly this simple fact got glazed over on these boards.

I'm sick of everybody implying that last season was a disaster - it was a building year with a new coach that saw improvements in most areas of our game. INCLUDING parts of David Carr's game. Sure, point out the problems we have, offer solutions, voice your grievances, but give credit where credit's due. We went from being THE joke of the NFL to being a team who our opponents showed genuine respect to by the end of the year. AND WE BEAT THE COLTS - WHO WON THE SUPERBOWL. And swept the Jags. And came within a whisker of beating the Titans.

I'm proud of what we did last year. To say this team is doomed is ridiculous. We're FINALLY on the upslope.

Double Barrel
03-03-2007, 01:38 PM
$20 million in dead cap space...

$15 million in cap space (before draft or FA signings)...

An offensive line that has never been right in five years...

One playmaker on offense...

No running game to speak of...

Shopping a QB that 31 other teams offer nothing of value to trade for...

Two playmakers on defense, with maybe a third in his second year...

Big needs at CB, SS, FS, OLB, DT, RB, WR, LT, G, P...

yeah, the future looks bright! I'm super optimistic and exicited, too! :howdy: can I hope for .500 in 2007?

ericdoesntcare
03-03-2007, 02:03 PM
well i think we're doing FA right this season...i'm kinda glad we don't have the cap to go nuts...look at some of the signings of yesterday and you'll see why

clements 80 million
steinbach 50 mill
dockery 49 mil
patrick chuckawaruah(don't know don't care to spell his name right) got 5.5 mill

while the first three guys are solid starters and potential pro bowlers at their position would you take nate clements over champ bailey no...would you take either one of those guards over steve hutchinson no...and definetly would not pay a guy 5.5 mil to play a position he hasn't played in the nfl

If you look at the numbers on the Clements' deal... It is not as bad as you might think. And, you know how the NFL works. He won't play out that entire contract. Year 7 and 8 are practically guaranteed to be cap casualties... It's a very cap friendly contract.

Caesar
03-03-2007, 08:51 PM
The only thing that has been a major disappointment to me is missing out on Plummer and Garcia. Are there any other decent QB possibilities out there?

Right now it looks as though they're content to go into 2007 with Carr competing with Rosenfels (and a rookie?). If this turns out to be the case, then the organization has pretty much admitted that they're conceding the season, and that's very distressing considering that it seems the city is on the verge of turning against this franchise after 5 years (and counting) of futility, along with the infamous Vince Young draft debacle.

Nighthawk
03-03-2007, 09:27 PM
We beat the Colts a month before they won the Super Bowl. That was promising.

Some people are just so dense.

Do you think that if the Colts had NEEDED the game that we would have won?

Jeeeze.

Tayton
03-03-2007, 09:42 PM
Some people are just so dense.

Do you think that if the Colts had NEEDED the game that we would have won?

Jeeeze.

Uh, The Colts needed that game.

Second Honeymoon
03-03-2007, 09:42 PM
Holy crap........am I the only one on this damn board that is happy we didn't jump like a suicidal teenager at the overpriced FAs on the first day.

We've done it before and have nothing to show for it.

Both T. Wade and R. Smith were top ten signings........guess what, we signed them both, awesome and I mean AWESOME.......what do we have to show for it..........NOTHING..............."crickets"........Dead cap........"crickets".......dead cap............................................... ............................................and just when you got tired of the dead cap, try this on for size, yes you've got it.............. MOOORREEE Dead cap.

I'm happy the Texans aren't throwing away money, what the hell do you want the Texans to do, throw away 80 mil to clements (not worth it) I'm glad we are sitting still and waiting, and if your paying attention so is 90% of the rest of the league

the only reason they are dead cap is because we cut them. And we cut them in order to do what? to overpay for a loser named Carr? To worry about signability when you have the #1 overall pick? We never go after the top-tier guys so we end up having to overpay for the 2nd and 3rd tier guys like Greenwood, Wade, Weaver, Flanagan, Walker, and to a lesser extent Robaire.

there are moves yet to be made, but to not even being in the running to get Eric Steinbach is just too much to handle. To let Shanny hose you in the 'Jake Plummer Sweepstakes' is even worse. Hopefully Smith is just cleaning house, but if he is doing that, don't expect much in the way of Free Agency and definitely don't expect much in the way of victories....but maybe a decent team in 3-4 years but by then Kubes and Smith will be fired anyway.....so goes the cycle..life giveth life taketh away

TexanFan881
03-03-2007, 09:45 PM
Some people are just so dense.

Do you think that if the Colts had NEEDED the game that we would have won?

Jeeeze.

After they lost a couple in a row and were getting ready for the playoffs they needed something to turn around their season. What, do you think they weren't trying? How do you not try to win? Its not like they took out their starters. We won that game and at the time it seemed as if they needed that win to give them some momentum to make it far in the playoffs.

Some people are just so dense...

Second Honeymoon
03-03-2007, 09:45 PM
Uh, The Colts needed that game.

yes, the Colts wanted to win that game and were in a race for homefield advantage vs. the Patriots. Ironically, the loss to the Texans seemed to cause the whole Colts team to rally around that and rise up and not lose a game for the remainder of regular season and playoffs. Losing to the Texans must have really woken their arses up because it was aces and spades the rest of the way. The Colts must have felt they hit rock bottom with the loss to the Texans.

Nighthawk
03-03-2007, 09:53 PM
Maybe we're not doomed. Maybe everybody else is just 4 times smarter than we are? Notwithstanding the very well articulated argument that we're "playing it smart" in free agency advanced elsewhere.

We're playing it cool, and with such a strong team, too. It's greatness. Let's keep David Carr because he's so . . . I don't know, silly looking? Boy scouty? Prone to being prone? You name it.

Nighthawk
03-03-2007, 09:55 PM
Uh, The Colts needed that game.

Wait--am I crazy? Who got to the super bowl? Who won the super bowl? And to think, both without that game you say they needed.

Huh. Whaddaya think of that.

afcman
03-03-2007, 09:55 PM
It really blew my mind when we beat the Colts. Manning was REAL ticked about it. And I noticed that the media didn't give it that much attention. I thought it was a BIG story at the time. Unfortunately the game wasn't on in my market. Hardly any Texans games make it on the tube anymore. 3-4 yrs ago just about every game was on.

South Texan
03-03-2007, 09:55 PM
I am not ready to apply the term "Doomed" yet, but we sure have a lot of questions.

On the positive side:
We have AJ, D-Rob, DeMeco, and a couple of others. IMO Mario looked good for playing hurt, but's that's another whole thread.

Just a few of the questions:
Will D Davis/Williams be available? (probably not, but still gotta think about it)
Will Chris Taylor or Dayne go from flashes of good to consistantly good?
Will Spencer be 100%?
Will Owen Daniels continue to improve?
Winston started to look OK very late in the season, will he be a key part of the line at guard or RT?
Can Sage do it in regular season so we don't spend a ton of money we can't afford on a new QB?

I don't envy Smith. Except for the TE position, he has to make some guesses before he even knows what positions to go after. Personally, I would go after serious help in the Secondary, and the middle of the D-Line. Then with what cap room we have left, see what's still around. That's me though.

It's going to be an interesting off season.

TexanFan881
03-03-2007, 09:59 PM
Wait--am I crazy? Who got to the super bowl? Who won the super bowl? And to think, both without that game you say they needed.

Huh. Whaddaya think of that.

Needed. That's past tense. At the time of that game they needed it. What's your point with this anyways? Who in the world comes into a game and doesn't give it 100%? You're acting like they let us win the game. I'm sure at the end of the game their team just gave up when it was tied and went, "We don't need this game, lets let the Texans win."

Jeez........

ThaShark316
03-03-2007, 10:01 PM
In Houston, Texans fans are easily the most pessimistic.

(*waits for "im being a realist"*)

afcman
03-03-2007, 10:14 PM
I haven't forgotten the first 2 yrs of this team. Everyone was VERY pumped up and excited. Remember that first game? :doot:

Now all these yrs later we're "rebuilding". I don't blame the fans for being ticked and losing some hope after what the ex-GM did. It's difficult to realize what an uphill battle we have on our hands.

After we get back on track, which may take another 2 yrs, we still have to go thru Manning and now Young. Thanks again Mr. Ex-GM. The hardcore NFL fans realize what it takes but the average joe doesn't want to waste his time or money. Especially money. And can you blame them? For example, there's NO WAY I'd be a Lions fan even if I lived in Detroit. (And thank the Lord I don't :doot: )