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View Full Version : Carr to bucs/plummer to texans


kubs-elway
03-02-2007, 03:12 PM
Just a rumor, thought i would spit it out for you guys. Denver would still get 4th round pick from bucks. Rumor says this is being said on houston radio stations

dirty steve
03-02-2007, 03:14 PM
Just a rumor, thought i would spit it out for you guys

610 just said they heard:
carr + 5th rd to TB
TB 3rd to Houston
Houston sends 3rd to Denver for Plummer

titan hater
03-02-2007, 03:14 PM
Just a rumor, thought i would spit it out for you guys. Denver would still get 4th round pick from bucks. Rumor says this is being said on houston radio stations

link?

Reddevil63
03-02-2007, 03:15 PM
link?
radio?

titan hater
03-02-2007, 03:15 PM
610 just said they heard:
carr + 5th rd to TB
TB 3rd to Houston
Houston sends 3rd to Denver for Plummer


That sounds good to me...

newport texan
03-02-2007, 03:16 PM
i would do that deal in a heartbeat!

Reddevil63
03-02-2007, 03:17 PM
610 just said they heard:
carr + 5th rd to TB
TB 3rd to Houston
Houston sends 3rd to Denver for Plummer

I dont get why we would send a 3rd to Denver if they were going to give him to TB for a 4th?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-02-2007, 03:17 PM
Umm, why would we send a 3rd to Denver when they were accepting a 4th round pick from Tampa?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-02-2007, 03:18 PM
I dont get why we would send a 3rd to Denver if they were going to give him to TB for a 4th?




lol you just beat me to it.

kubs-elway
03-02-2007, 03:18 PM
Heard it on 950 the Fan in denver, usually reliable, they are staked out at broncos headquarters today

Reddevil63
03-02-2007, 03:18 PM
Umm, why would we send a 3rd to Denver when they were accepting a 4th round pick from Tampa?
To slow :aikido: lol

Exithios
03-02-2007, 03:19 PM
Umm, why would we send a 3rd to Denver when they were accepting a 4th round pick from Tampa?

Beat me to it, blows my mind. Maybe our 3rd (aquired from Bucs) to Denver for Plummer and (?)...

Vinny
03-02-2007, 03:19 PM
eh, I'm listening and its just stuff they are kicking around from emailers and stuff.

kubs-elway
03-02-2007, 03:20 PM
To slow :aikido: lol

Denver gets 3rd because shannahan knows what the hell he is doing.

TEXANRED
03-02-2007, 03:21 PM
eh, I'm listening and its just stuff they are kicking around from emailers and stuff.

So its just fans emails and they are reading them out loud?

Probably the same fans who would have us trade Carr, this years first, second, third, and next years first to move up to #1 to draft Peterson.

Reddevil63
03-02-2007, 03:21 PM
Denver gets 3rd because shannahan knows what the hell he is doing.
Mmhmm but why does it need to be a higher pick coming from us?

NEROtheZERO
03-02-2007, 03:22 PM
I'm all for Jake Plummer coming to Houston and he obviously wants to or he wouldn't have nixed the deal to Tampa. With that being known, there is no way I give up anything for him. He will not be in Denver next year and he wants to be in Houston, why let any team scare us into giving draft picks away? If teams want to play games, I am fully prepared to wait out the Plummer situation and, if necesary, go with Rosenfels as my starting QB in 2007.

Otherwise deal Carr on draft day for picks and see what you have to work with, Plummer or Sage, from there.

Porky
03-02-2007, 03:24 PM
Can someone clarify - is this just callers speculating or an actual media generated rumor?

How about we get the 3rd from TB, and send our 4th to Denver? That would sit better with me, but either way, I would make this deal.

Janus3
03-02-2007, 03:24 PM
this deal sucks. texans are better off getting a fill in qb to groom a rookie like the oilers did with chandler/mcnair. hell i'd take bledsoe or brooks over plummer.

Clash_Fan3605
03-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Yahoo.com is reporting a 2-team trade between TB and Denver. Plummer goes to TB, but then RETIRES, nullifing the trade. I am super confused. :hides:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-plummer030207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

TK_Gamer
03-02-2007, 03:27 PM
at least plummer doesnt fumble as much we he gets sacked, they better get kolb in the draft whether they have to trade up or not, i would say kolb + peterson + grubbs or blalock = promissing future offense.

Janus3
03-02-2007, 03:27 PM
plummer basically wants to go to a team he knew he will start which is why they're saying that. now because of that trade they're going to need to throw a 3rd party who wants plummer which i pray is not houston.

titan hater
03-02-2007, 03:27 PM
this deal sucks. texans are better off getting a fill in qb to groom a rookie like the oilers did with chandler/mcnair. hell i'd take bledsoe or brooks over plummer.

You haver got to be joking!! Bledsoe is a human statue and brooks...well he coulnt even stick with the QB-less Oakland...

dirty steve
03-02-2007, 03:28 PM
eh, I'm listening and its just stuff they are kicking around from emailers and stuff.

sorry, i should have prefaced that. my bad.

610 is reporting garcia to oakland.

Vinny
03-02-2007, 03:29 PM
So its just fans emails and they are reading them out loud?

Probably the same fans who would have us trade Carr, this years first, second, third, and next years first to move up to #1 to draft Peterson.
Tons of rumors floating around all over the NFL today on mb's and call in shows...I got a few in my inbox this morning too, but I only discussed one openly since he's been very credible for years.


wow this just in! The Chronicle has reported that we are looking at Jeff Garcia.

Clash_Fan3605
03-02-2007, 03:30 PM
610 is reporting garcia to oakland.

That's one step closer to drafting AD!

Vinny
03-02-2007, 03:31 PM
not so fast... The Texans are pursuing free agent quarterback Jeff Garcia, who was not offered a new contract by Philadelphia.

Because Denver insisted on getting a draft choice for Jake Plummer and the Texans won’t part with any of their picks, they’re trying to sign Garcia, who would replace David Carr as their starter.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4596957.html

HuttoKarl
03-02-2007, 03:42 PM
We'd be better off just sending Carr to TB for their pick and not spending any cash on Plummer.

Blu
03-02-2007, 03:46 PM
We'd be better off just sending Carr to TB for their pick and not spending any cash on Plummer.

tru dat

yourfavoritetexan42
03-02-2007, 03:49 PM
sounds like one, bullshi** and two, a pile of shi**.

It wont happen, and if it does it will be retarded for management to land. We have so much dead cap space right now...the only big move will be what we do at #8.

trutxn
03-02-2007, 03:57 PM
This sounds better to me...

1) Plummer retires and Denver cuts him, he then re-enters FA in order to sign a deal with the Texans. We don't give up anything and get Plummer. The only way Plummer comes to us is if he is willing to take a huge pay cut.

2) Still trade Carr to TB for 3rd round pick.

I'm not a fan of Plummer and I don't think he is an upgrade, but if we get him for cheap and a draft pick I'm all for it.

bckey
03-02-2007, 04:01 PM
This sounds better to me...

1) Plummer retires and Denver cuts him, he then re-enters FA in order to sign a deal with the Texans. We don't give up anything and get Plummer. The only way Plummer comes to us is if he is willing to take a huge pay cut.


This is from the chronicle article about Garcia that has already been linked in this thread:

If Plummer follows through with his retirement plans, the Broncos would still own his rights for three years, which would keep him from being reunited with Kubiak, his offensive coordinator for three years in Denver.

A Texan
03-02-2007, 04:02 PM
Yahoo.com is reporting a 2-team trade between TB and Denver. Plummer goes to TB, but then RETIRES, nullifing the trade. I am super confused. :hides:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-plummer030207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
NFL.com is also reporting the deal being nulified by Plummer's retirement.
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/DEN/10033012

Blu
03-02-2007, 04:02 PM
This sounds better to me...

1) Plummer retires and Denver cuts him, he then re-enters FA in order to sign a deal with the Texans. We don't give up anything and get Plummer. The only way Plummer comes to us is if he is willing to take a huge pay cut.

2) Still trade Carr to TB for 3rd round pick.

I'm not a fan of Plummer and I don't think he is an upgrade, but if we get him for cheap and a draft pick I'm all for it.
I think Denver might keep him just so Kubiak can't pick him up...
dosen't matter.... Jeff Garcia is a real upgrade over Carr.
That's if the Texans are really trying to land him.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4596957.html

Garcia, who turns 37 this year, is one of the hottest free agents on the market. When coach Gary Kubiak was the offensive coordinator at Denver, the Broncos tried to acquire Garcia but couldn’t pull it off.

“Yeah, we chased him in Denver,” Kubiak said. “I’ve always been impressed with the guy. He’s one tough son of a gun. He makes smart decisions. He’s been productive just about everywhere he’s been.”

Double Barrel
03-02-2007, 04:05 PM
Why is my awe not inspired by the possibility of getting Jeff Garcia? :um:

Reddevil63
03-02-2007, 04:06 PM
Why is my awe not inspired by the possibility of getting Jeff Garcia? :um:

Look at the Garcia thread for some inspiration of you awe :shades:

cj5776
03-02-2007, 04:06 PM
610 just said they heard:
carr + 5th rd to TB
TB 3rd to Houston
Houston sends 3rd to Denver for Plummer

So we move up in the third, loose Carr and the fifth pick, while getting Plummer. Do it!!!!!
But I agree, Denver should not be getting a third for Plummer.

TwinSisters
03-02-2007, 04:07 PM
Why is my awe not inspired by the possibility of getting Jeff Garcia? :um:

Because you saw him play in Detroit and Cleveland.

I am just guessing.

Andrew6
03-02-2007, 04:10 PM
610 just said they heard:
carr + 5th rd to TB
TB 3rd to Houston
Houston sends 3rd to Denver for Plummer



I'm not sure here, but i'm thinking we're getting screwed.... just a thought

Double Barrel
03-02-2007, 04:10 PM
Because you saw him play in Detroit and Cleveland.

I am just guessing.

yep...

I'd rather go with a plan of a consistent running game and dominant defense, to be honest. Don't let whatever/whoever QB we have throw the ball more than 15 times a game. Beat the opponent by ball control offense and stout defense. Boring yes, but winning cures all that.

This is just not the year to find good QBs, IMO.

titan hater
03-02-2007, 04:14 PM
yep...

I'd rather go with a plan of a consistent running game and dominant defense, to be honest. Don't let whatever/whoever QB we have throw the ball more than 15 times a game. Beat the opponent by ball control offense and stout defense. Boring yes, but winning cures all that.

This is just not the year to find good QBs, IMO.

How often did Dan Pasterini (I know it is spelled wrong) throw the ball? I do remeber being in the playoffs a couple of times...

trutxn
03-02-2007, 04:14 PM
yep...

I'd rather go with a plan of a consistent running game and dominant defense, to be honest. Don't let whatever/whoever QB we have throw the ball more than 15 times a game. Beat the opponent by ball control offense and stout defense. Boring yes, but winning cures all that.

This is just not the year to find good QBs, IMO.

Thank you, if teams don't move past the 50, they don't score. Our offense does not have to put up 40 pts a game to win, they just have to stop turning the ball over. If we added defensive standouts in the draft and had less turnovers on offense we would be fighting for a playoff spot. We are not going to out score Vince and Peyton, but we can knock their heads off.

texas mopar
03-02-2007, 04:27 PM
yep...

I'd rather go with a plan of a consistent running game and dominant defense, to be honest. Don't let whatever/whoever QB we have throw the ball more than 15 times a game. Beat the opponent by ball control offense and stout defense. Boring yes, but winning cures all that.

This is just not the year to find good QBs, IMO.

I agree whole heartly ,DEFENCE and srtong running game win championships -wish is what we want right!!:shades:

TwinSisters
03-02-2007, 04:34 PM
How often did Dan Pasterini (I know it is spelled wrong) throw the ball? I do remeber being in the playoffs a couple of times...

Prior to 1977 - a lot ( almost always in the top of the league )
after 1977 - a little ( almost always in the bottom of the league )

However, Pastorini was hurt A LOT during his entire stay in Houston.
( flak jackets for QBs were pioneered by Pastorini and he held the rookie sack records until Carr came along )

aj.
03-02-2007, 05:05 PM
Pastorini had the most regular season passing attempts of his career in 1978. That was the year they went to 16 games but when you look at avg. per game it's not that much different from pre-78. In '78 he had 23 attempts per game average and pre - 78 his highest per game average attempts was 24.4 so it wasn't that much different.

And even though he got the crap beat out of him, he rarely missed a game due to injury -- only about a half-dozen in 9 years.

A lot of people have the misconception that Earl ran the ball 30 times a game. Earl averaged 20 carries per game in his rookie season. His highest carry per game average was in 1980 (when Pastorini was already gone) when he averaged 24.8 carries per game. Stabler threw a bunch in '80 too with 457 attempts.

Marcus
03-02-2007, 05:27 PM
Why is my awe not inspired by the possibility of getting Jeff Garcia? :um:

You must not have watched any of the Eagles games after Donovan got hurt.

He'd be a hell of a lot better than Plummer. Talk about awe inspired .. NOT!

Double Barrel
03-02-2007, 06:07 PM
You must not have watched any of the Eagles games after Donovan got hurt.

He'd be a hell of a lot better than Plummer. Talk about awe inspired .. NOT!

I don't disagree with you, Marcus.

My only point about Garcia is that I don't think he'll be able to do more with less, either. He's another QB that can succeed with the right team around him, which is the type of QB that Car is, as well (IMO).

The thing with Carr, Plummer, or Garcia is that they can be good game managers, but I don't think they'll be carrying teams on their back. The Eagles were a solid team in 2006, and that, as much as anything, is why Garcia had a good year. Same with Plummer and the 2005 Broncos going to the AFC Championship game.

But I honestly don't see much of an upgrade to the Texans by just adding Garcia or Plummer.

Kaiser Toro
03-02-2007, 06:13 PM
I don't disagree with you, Marcus.

My only point about Garcia is that I don't think he'll be able to do more with less, either. He's another QB that can succeed with the right team around him, which is the type of QB that Car is, as well (IMO).

The thing with Carr, Plummer, or Garcia is that they can be good game managers, but I don't think they'll be carrying teams on their back. The Eagles were a solid team in 2006, and that, as much as anything, is why Garcia had a good year. Same with Plummer and the 2005 Broncos going to the AFC Championship game.

But I honestly don't see much of an upgrade to the Texans by just adding Garcia or Plummer.

I am not a huge fan of Garcia, but that is one tough dude. He has no problem taking a hit while making a PLAY, not going into the Fresno Fall like our current albatross.

TheCD
03-02-2007, 06:33 PM
I don't disagree with you, Marcus.

My only point about Garcia is that I don't think he'll be able to do more with less, either. He's another QB that can succeed with the right team around him, which is the type of QB that Car is, as well (IMO).

The thing with Carr, Plummer, or Garcia is that they can be good game managers, but I don't think they'll be carrying teams on their back. The Eagles were a solid team in 2006, and that, as much as anything, is why Garcia had a good year. Same with Plummer and the 2005 Broncos going to the AFC Championship game.

But I honestly don't see much of an upgrade to the Texans by just adding Garcia or Plummer.




I'm just going off of memory here...but wasn't the problem last year with the Eagles that the team started to expect McNaab to carry the team on his shoulders, and when Garcia stepped in, it started to become more balanced (a la more running)?

TwinSisters
03-02-2007, 06:50 PM
Pastorini had the most regular season passing attempts of his career in 1978. That was the year they went to 16 games but when you look at avg. per game it's not that much different from pre-78. In '78 he had 23 attempts per game average and pre - 78 his highest per game average attempts was 24.4 so it wasn't that much different.

And even though he got the crap beat out of him, he rarely missed a game due to injury -- only about a half-dozen in 9 years.

A lot of people have the misconception that Earl ran the ball 30 times a game. Earl averaged 20 carries per game in his rookie season. His highest carry per game average was in 1980 (when Pastorini was already gone) when he averaged 24.8 carries per game. Stabler threw a bunch in '80 too with 457 attempts.

1978 is big change in the NFL. Not only because of the schedule, but also the passing rules. When I look at the pre-1978 Oilers, I see far more passing in comparison to what every other team is doing. Meaning it was harder to pass before 1978 and not seen as much.

( 1973 is when Gillman comes on board. Pastorini and Burrough make a name for themselves here in one of the early vertical offenses )
---

Stabler in 1980 was a completely different offense ( the ACE )... gone was the vertical stretch and in with the short passes to the TEs and the running backs ( not Earl though, Carpenter... I don't remember Earl being that great of screen threat. )

Also Carpenter shared the carries load with Earl in 1977 too. ( 144 carries )

NFLforher
03-02-2007, 06:52 PM
I am not a huge fan of Garcia, but that is one tough dude. He has no problem taking a hit while making a PLAY, not going into the Fresno Fall like our current albatross.



Garcia hasn't played behind a line like the Texans.

Kaiser Toro
03-02-2007, 06:57 PM
Garcia hasn't played behind a line like the Texans.

And he has not had a cap impact like Carr either. We do know this, Carr cannot find a way to win. Garcia somehow does.

dantem
03-02-2007, 07:35 PM
I think the Texans should pick up a QB in the Draft and keep Carr. If he plays poorly, bench him. There is a chance he may play well behind a good line. Many folks around the NFL that don't have a bias, believe that he is getting better every year. I know thats not popular with about 60% of the people on this board. But thats my take on it.

I'm not interested in trading Carrs with another Used Carr Lot.

El Amigo Invisible
03-02-2007, 07:42 PM
Guys,

Call me crazy but I think we should stick with the Carr bomb .

Heath Shuler
03-02-2007, 08:02 PM
Guys,

Call me crazy but I think we should stick with the Carr bomb .

You're CRAZY

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 08:23 PM
I'm not sure here, but i'm thinking we're getting screwed.... just a thought

We lose Carr & a 5th round pick, and we get Plummer & move up 4 spots in the second.

================================================== ========
we swap thirds with TB for the cost of a 5th round pick..... that sounds like a good deal for us.

We trade straight up, David for Jake... they get a backup, we get the 3rd most winningest qB since 2003.... I'd be happy with that.

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 08:25 PM
We are not going to out score Vince and Peyton, but we can knock their heads off.

Now I like Vince..... I'm a fan. but c'mon, Vince & Peyton?? You can't put those names in a sentence like that.













Yet.

hot pickle
03-02-2007, 08:56 PM
is this official yet?

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 09:03 PM
It's not even an official rumor.

dirty steve
03-02-2007, 09:07 PM
It's not even an official rumor.
since when did a rumor have to be official? isn't that why it's called a "rumor?"

hot pickle
03-02-2007, 09:10 PM
yo the title doesnt say rumor, i read a lil bit, but i aint gonna take an hour to read 4 pages of people talkin, so i read the first lil bit and maybe thought that it might be official i was just askin a yes or no question dont have to answer me like im ****in retarded

sk8termom
03-02-2007, 09:12 PM
Garcia hasn't played behind a line like the Texans.

yes he did - look at his results in Cleveland! Not pretty

Indy Texans Fan
03-02-2007, 09:20 PM
I have always been an avid David Carr supporter but I think it is time for him to move to a different team. It sickens me to see Faggins get beat for 2-3 touchdowns a game and the end result always being blame carr because he threw 1 pick...I live in Indianapolis and I think i am the only person here that likes the texans more than the colts...Grant it carr can be streaky, he is not the problem! it makes me laugh when the coach and or the quarterback are the first to be labeled the scapegoat...when it is clear our line sucks, our defense is terrible aside from ryans, robinson, and williams, and our running situation whether u sugar coat it or not (dayne????) sux....But to end my rant I believe Carr is a good qb...I'll Even say great qb in the right system...But I also know that houston may not be the best system for him...Because reading these boards make me sick one week he is a god the next week u want sage to be the Qb. P.S. The dolphins cut Sage who was later replaced by Joey Harrington... Hmmm yea he is the answer...So in conclusion I like Carr's ability...But when all of the houston fans have turned their back on the man. I know u all had ur hearts set on washed up jake plummer...( how long has he been in Denver?; and what has he done?)But for the sake of david I hope he ends up with a team that "Knows" his ability and is not ready to draft a terrible Brady Quinn (Who in by no means is ready for the NFL, even though I love brady...not ready) I live in Indianapolis and I am thankful for the colts...Maybe just maybe you should be thankful for your team...u know that same one that left u for tenn.! I think I see why...ungreatful...P.s.s lets play sage and end up 6-10...

edo783
03-02-2007, 09:23 PM
IMO, Garcia would be a pretty good upgrade...IF....he plays like last year. Not sure he can do that behind our line and stay healthy for a full season at 37 years old (why does that not seem very old to me?). To me, Plummer is pretty much a sideways move with just a different set of issues. Both would calm the fan base for about 20 minutes of the first game though. If this goes down, pretty much cinches that we will be taking a QB I expect, just a question of which one.

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 09:38 PM
yo the title doesnt say rumor, i read a lil bit, but i aint gonna take an hour to read 4 pages of people talkin, so i read the first lil bit and maybe thought that it might be official i was just askin a yes or no question dont have to answer me like im ****in retarded

4 pages of this stuff....


I wasn't directing the retarded towards you.

NFLforher
03-02-2007, 11:33 PM
yes he did - look at his results in Cleveland! Not pretty


My bad. He did.

SamuraiSword
03-03-2007, 12:29 AM
yo the title doesnt say rumor, i read a lil bit, but i aint gonna take an hour to read 4 pages of people talkin, so i read the first lil bit and maybe thought that it might be official i was just askin a yes or no question dont have to answer me like im ****in retarded

Dunta are you throwing this thread under the bus like you did Carr? :joker:

Cruuuuuuuz
03-03-2007, 02:27 AM
Hey....I have no time to read this crap....
Garcia or Plummer is an upgrade...uuuuuuhhhh...we need to move on and so does Carr.

MightyTExan
03-03-2007, 07:50 AM
Maybe since everyone expects Carr to suck if he stays he won't feel any pressure and finally light it up?



Edit: That doesn't make any sense. I'm officially starting to lose it over this Carr business.

Hulk75
03-03-2007, 07:57 AM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:

Kaiser Toro
03-03-2007, 08:08 AM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:

Dump Carr and start Sage. We won when we limited his passing opportunities and we could use the 3.5 million in savings once we cut him to help other needs.

nunusguy
03-03-2007, 08:21 AM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:

Owen Daniels has some QB experience from High School.

aj.
03-03-2007, 09:06 AM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:

Actually it's not funny.

What Texans fans are now left with, thanks to McNair, Casserly, and to some degree Kubiak, is a lame duck, below average QB whose been reduced to a $40 million dollar hand-off machine. We can find below average QBs for a lot less money.

David flippin (floppin) Carr needs to go somewhere so he can finally realize his true place in the NFL -- making about a mil a year as a journeyman backup - without the golden spoon that's been hanging around his neck for 5 years and actually competing for a job for once in his life. I bet he still couldn't beat out Billy Volek, 8 years later.

The sooner we rid this franchise of the Carr malaise, the sooner the franchise can begin full recovery and move forward. Until then, we're still digging.

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2007, 11:02 AM
Owen Daniels has some QB experience from High School.

That's why I've joked that if we're going to take the air out of the ball we might as well play The Weatherman at QB.

Sco-tai
03-03-2007, 11:15 AM
Y'all think Giff Nielsen has anything left in that arm of his? Or maybe Andre Ware?

hehe

Kidding aside.....this possible deal would a train-wreck.

ANY TEAM that gives up a draft pick for PLUMMER, who is threatening retirement is way off base. This means....assuming he DOES come back for 2007...he maybe has 1 or 2 more years left before he's done. Can the Texans REALLY afford to lose a 3rd or 4th for a guy that MAYBE has 32 games left in the tank?

I'm thinking NO.

:hides:

thunderkyss
03-03-2007, 11:20 AM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:

I'm betting Kubiak will lace them up one more time.

Honoring Earl 34
03-03-2007, 01:33 PM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:


Tim Rattay's available ... Carr for Rattay straight up .

HoustonFrog
03-03-2007, 01:37 PM
Well if Carr goes to the Bucs he will compete with Garcia, Plummer and Simms..lol. They hold the cards.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2786694

TexanFan881
03-03-2007, 01:38 PM
We get some kind of a Plummer for Carr trade now this trade will be dead on :)

Texans Pride
03-03-2007, 01:47 PM
Something has to be going on. . . at least I hope....What are they going to do with Plummer, Garcia, and Simms?

thunderkyss
03-03-2007, 02:12 PM
Something has to be going on. . . at least I hope....What are they going to do with Plummer, Garcia, and Simms?

Someone said it was a move to force Oakland to draft a QB. So they can get Calvin Johnson.

HuttoKarl
03-03-2007, 02:34 PM
Someone said it was a move to force Oakland to draft a QB. So they can get Calvin Johnson.

We need to offer up David Carr for their third or fourth rounder. Call Al Davis immediately.

Marcus
03-03-2007, 03:23 PM
We need to offer up David Carr for their third or fourth rounder. Call Al Davis immediately.

Even Al Davis isn't that stupid.

Grid
03-03-2007, 03:58 PM
I havent read all the threads here.. but for us to give up Carr and a 5th round pick, and only get Plummer? that is a horrible deal.

Additionally.. didnt junior seau retire then sign with the Patriots last season?

just a thought.

NATHANHALE
03-03-2007, 03:58 PM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:

What's too funny is that anyone is better than David, so the team will be ok...however, since your buddy Gruden didn't take your bro, who's up next for him--anybody?

QB75
03-03-2007, 04:17 PM
What's too funny is that anyone is better than David, so the team will be ok...however, since your buddy Gruden didn't take your bro, who's up next for him--anybody?

No, anyone is not better than David. Most people understand that.

Reddevil63
03-03-2007, 04:19 PM
I havent read all the threads here.. but for us to give up Carr and a 5th round pick, and only get Plummer? that is a horrible deal.

Additionally.. didnt junior seau retire then sign with the Patriots last season?

just a thought.I dont think Seau was under contract with anybody when he retired

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2007, 04:25 PM
No, anyone is not better than David. Most people understand that.

Yeah, there are maybe 2 or 3 people worse.

QB75
03-03-2007, 04:35 PM
Yeah, there are maybe 2 or 3 people worse.

Great to see that other perceived viable options are being taken by other teams though. Glad to see them go elsewhere.

ledzeppelin229
03-03-2007, 04:38 PM
Great to see that other perceived viable options are being taken by other teams though. Glad to see them go elsewhere.

Rather than being taken by Houston, as they would possibly outplay David in camp. I love the objectivity you bring to the Texans and their improvement as a team.

HoustonFrog
03-03-2007, 04:39 PM
Yeah, there are maybe 2 or 3 people worse.


What do you mean..Hulk said there were like 20 teams wanting Dave, some willing to give up 1st rounders.:rolleyes:

QB75
03-03-2007, 04:40 PM
Rather than being taken by Houston, as they would possibly outplay David in camp. I love the objectivity you bring to the Texans and their improvement as a team.

Very little objectivity by others on this board. I am objective. If the Texans feel they need a QB then trade for a young one or draft one. It's called long term thinking.

ledzeppelin229
03-03-2007, 04:45 PM
Very little objectivity by others on this board. I am objective. If the Texans feel they need a QB then trade for a young one or draft one. It's called long term thinking.

They probably will draft one now that Plummer and Garcia are gone. Really they might have drafted one anyway. Trading for young QBs with any sort of ability is an expensive undertaking. ex. Matt Schaub.

Heath Shuler
03-03-2007, 04:48 PM
Man what is going to happen when Garcia signs with another team, then who will it be. Quinn?, Harrington? Tim flippin Rattay. Toooo Funny!:popcorn:

I see absolutely nothing funny about Texans’ fans being stuck with the poster child for underperforming QBs. You have a sick and warped sense of humor.

Heath Shuler
03-03-2007, 04:50 PM
What do you mean..Hulk said there were like 20 teams wanting Dave, some willing to give up 1st rounders.:rolleyes:

Exactly: where is the 1st rounder we heard about; where are the 20 teams?

Cruuuuuuuz
03-03-2007, 05:26 PM
CARR for Plummer and we trade 1st round picks...what's the problem? DO IT.

Hulk75
03-03-2007, 05:29 PM
What's too funny is that anyone is better than David, so the team will be ok...however, since your buddy Gruden didn't take your bro, who's up next for him--anybody?

They never talked or talk.:ok: Thanks for letting me know that, I am in the dark over here.

NATHANHALE
03-03-2007, 05:37 PM
Great to see that other perceived viable options are being taken by other teams though. Glad to see them go elsewhere.

...who is worse over the last 5 yrs with about equal playing time?

TEXANRED
03-03-2007, 05:40 PM
Alright guys, some of you need to stop picking on Hulk.

Hulk, you need to tell your brother to play with some anger, go out there with some fire and stop acting like he's trying to gain approval. He's not out there to make friends, he's there to win a football games.

Thats all I've got to say about that.

QB75
03-03-2007, 05:59 PM
...who is worse over the last 5 yrs with about equal playing time?

Can't compare an expansion team with an established franchise.

Reddevil63
03-03-2007, 06:04 PM
Can't compare an expansion team with an established franchise.
Especially considering the line he played behind and the "coaches" he had during his first 5 years

HoustonFrog
03-03-2007, 06:15 PM
Especially considering the line he played behind and the "coaches" he had during his first 5 years

I didn't find the coaches to be great either but many were the same ones that help lead another expansion franchise and coach their QB, Kerry Collins. After about year 2 the expansion excuse needed to stop.

Marcus
03-03-2007, 06:38 PM
I see absolutely nothing funny about Texans’ fans being stuck with the poster child for underperforming QBs. You have a sick and warped sense of humor.
Well, at least he shows that he has one. You apparently don't. I myself need a sick and warped sense of humor to be to able tolerate this MB day in and day out. You oughta lighten up.

Heath Shuler
03-03-2007, 07:06 PM
Well, at least he shows that he has one. You apparently don't. I myself need a sick and warped sense of humor to be to able tolerate this MB day in and day out. You oughta lighten up.

Lighten up? Maybe we should change this to a humor message board. Everybody post knock knock jokes. Do you think that will turn our franchise into a winner? Maybe you think it’s funny for him to mock Texans fans. I don’t.

Marcus
03-03-2007, 07:23 PM
Lighten up? Maybe we should change this to a humor message board. Everybody post knock knock jokes. Do you think that will turn our franchise into a winner? Maybe you think it’s funny for him to mock Texans fans. I don’t.

lol: I see from your profile that you just became a member on 04-30-2006. You'll either learn quickly, or leave quickly, one of the two. Again. . lighten up.

Heath Shuler
03-03-2007, 07:38 PM
lol: I see from your profile that you just became a member on 04-30-2006. You'll either learn quickly, or leave quickly, one of the two. Again. . lighten up.

I’ll try.

Season ticket renewal bill came recently; I haven’t been really jolly regarding the Texans of late.
I have been a fan since day one, only started posted here last year.

South Texan
03-03-2007, 08:14 PM
No QB is going to be great without a decent (not great, just stable) O-Line

No Qb is going to be great without a consistant running threat, which needs a good O-Line.

If it sounds like I am pushing for fixing the O-Line it's because I am.

We are not likely to get a major upgrade over Carr, don't sell the farm to try. Let DC and Sage battle it out and (don't mean to be gruesome here, it's just fact of life) wait for someone's QB to fall to injury and try to trade DC to them. Meanwhile look for a gem in the rough (like Romo), put him third QB on the roster and try to get him some playing time to see what we have.

Sorry, I don't see us going to the Superbowl next year, but we should be able to win 8 to 12 games if the Front Office addresses the O-Line, middle of the D-Line and the Secondary. Finding a Payton Manning or Tom Brady is probably going to take us a couple of years when we have the cap room to afford him.

potisyourfriend
03-03-2007, 08:21 PM
No QB is going to be great without a decent (not great, just stable) O-Line

No Qb is going to be great without a consistant running threat, which needs a good O-Line.

If it sounds like I am pushing for fixing the O-Line it's because I am.



Can he atleast be ok? No one expects Carr to be great.. There were a few QB's last year that got sacked more but played better..

Marcus
03-03-2007, 08:21 PM
Season ticket renewal bill came recently; I haven’t been really jolly regarding the Texans of late.

I feel ya. I'm trying my best to keep from becoming too cynical. I find that hanging out here is a kind of therapy in that regard, seeing so many others as pissed off about the whole situation as I am. It helps to keep it all in perspective.

Texian
03-03-2007, 08:27 PM
Could it be that TB is stockpiling all the QBs so Oakland will have to draft one? and leave Calvin Johnson for Tampa? or they are looking for ammo to trade up with Oakland?

Honoring Earl 34
03-03-2007, 08:42 PM
Could it be that TB is stockpiling all the QBs so Oakland will have to draft one? and leave Calvin Johnson for Tampa? or they are looking for ammo to trade up with Oakland?

Tampa may want either Thomas or Johnson .... either would work but Oakland would need to take a QB .

I'm sure Gruden gets a kick out of screwing the Raiders any way he can .

NFLforher
03-03-2007, 08:51 PM
Tampa may want either Thomas or Johnson .... either would work but Oakland would need to take a QB .

I'm sure Gruden gets a kick out of screwing the Raiders any way he can .


Die Raiders die.

South Texan
03-03-2007, 09:10 PM
Can he atleast be ok? No one expects Carr to be great.. There were a few QB's last year that got sacked more but played better..

Yikes! You mentioned the C word! Don't forget, we have a guy on the team named Sage who I think will have a serious shot at being the starter next year, if for no other reason, seems to make better decisions.

jmlockett
03-03-2007, 10:10 PM
plummer and garcia to tampa bay houston chronicle online. where that puts us I havent the slightest clue.

TwinSisters
03-03-2007, 10:41 PM
Can't compare an expansion team with an established franchise.

well which one do you want?

Dallas Don Meredith .500 fourth year
Atlanta Bob Berry .500 fourth year
Cincinnati Kenny Anderson .500 his first six seasons
Carolina Collins .500 second year
Cleveland Couch .500 fourth year
Denver Bob Tripucka .500 third year
Baltimore Colts Unitas .500 second year
Jacksonville Brunell .500 second year
Minnesota Tarkenton .500 fourth year
KC Dawson .500 first year
Miami Bob Griese .500 fourth year
New England Babe Paralli .500 first year
Seattle Jim Zorn .500 third year
Oakland Tom Flores .500 fourth year
San Francisco Tittle .500 second year
San Diego Kemp or Hadl .500 first year
Tampa Bay Williams .500 second year
Houston Oilers Blanda .500 first year

Carr can only sit with
the New Orleans Saints and Archie Manning. Who was their only starting QB that played any length of time while still failing to reach a .500 finish.
He finally got one on his 7th season starting.

However, Archie can claim some NFL titles for a QB in his second year and came to a team that had already floundered for 6 seasons.

brncoz1fan
03-03-2007, 11:22 PM
[QUOTE=jmlockett;613374]plummer and garcia to tampa bay houston chronicle online. where that puts us I havent the slightest clue.[/QUOTE

Plummer announced his retirement today on his foundations website. Tampa Bay deal is off.

Tulip
03-03-2007, 11:30 PM
Plummer announced his retirement today on his foundations website. Tampa Bay deal is off.

It's not off. The Bucs gave up a conditional 2008 pick for the rights to Plummer, knowing that he would likely carry through his threat to retire upon completion of the transaction. If Plummer stays retired, they won't give up the pick. But if he changes his mind - a la Junior Seau - they retain his rights.

Arky
03-03-2007, 11:46 PM
well which one do you want?

Dallas Don Meredith .500 fourth year
Atlanta Bob Berry .500 fourth year
Cincinnati Kenny Anderson .500 his first six seasons
Carolina Collins .500 second year
Cleveland Couch .500 fourth year
Denver Bob Tripucka .500 third year
Baltimore Colts Unitas .500 second year
Jacksonville Brunell .500 second year
Minnesota Tarkenton .500 fourth year
KC Dawson .500 first year
Miami Bob Griese .500 fourth year
New England Babe Paralli .500 first year
Seattle Jim Zorn .500 third year
Oakland Tom Flores .500 fourth year
San Francisco Tittle .500 second year
San Diego Kemp or Hadl .500 first year
Tampa Bay Williams .500 second year
Houston Oilers Blanda .500 first year

Carr can only sit with
the New Orleans Saints and Archie Manning. Who was their only starting QB that played any length of time while still failing to reach a .500 finish.
He finally got one on his 7th season starting.

However, Archie can claim some NFL titles for a QB in his second year and came to a team that had already floundered for 6 seasons.

The New Orleans Saints team didn't have a .500 record until their 13th year of existence (8-8 in 1979) which was Archie's 9th year. In 1977, he only played in 10 games (5-5 for Archie that year?).

Also, Meredith was a rookie in Dallas's first year (1960) and saw little action. Eddie LeBaron was the vet starter the first couple of years until about 1962-1963 when LeBaron and Meredith started a shuttle system of bringing in the next play. The Dallas Cowboys didn't have a .500 record till their 6th year of existence (1965).

TwinSisters
03-03-2007, 11:56 PM
The New Orleans Saints team didn't have a .500 record until their 13th year of existence (8-8 in 1979) which was Archie's 9th year. In 1977, he only played in 10 games (5-5 for Archie that year?).

Also, Meredith was a rookie in Dallas's first year (1960) and saw little action. Eddie LeBaron was the vet starter the first couple of years until about 1962-1963 when LeBaron and Meredith started a shuttle system of bringing in the next play. The Dallas Cowboys didn't have a .500 record till their 6th year of existence (1965).

yeah the comparison is QBs that had the same amount of starting time on expansion teams.

The Saints and Cowboys changed out their starting QBs in their starting years, we haven't. A lot of the QBs in the list that started on expansion teams were vets.

Archie sat out the 1976 year with Saints. I wouldn't of used him at all.. he's just the closest to even compare with Carr's losing record.

( I think Archie had a contract dispute too... will have to look that up. )
EDIT: Nope. Not Archie... the other Saint Herbert is the guy I was thinking of. Archie was out due to injury.

Erratic Assassin
03-03-2007, 11:57 PM
It's not off. The Bucs gave up a conditional 2008 pick for the rights to Plummer, knowing that he would likely carry through his threat to retire upon completion of the transaction. If Plummer stays retired, they won't give up the pick. But if he changes his mind - a la Junior Seau - they retain his rights.

Why would he change his mind? He's too good for Tampa Bay, but the opportunity to play behind our horrible line would be too enticing?

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2007, 12:28 AM
Why would he change his mind? He's too good for Tampa Bay, but the opportunity to play behind our horrible line would be too enticing?

Apparently he doesn't think our line is as bad as you do.

Or he just trusts Kubiak.

That's assuming that he was trying to either force them to cut him or trade him to us and that's a big assumption.

potisyourfriend
03-04-2007, 01:51 AM
Being reported that Plummer on his website is now Retiring from Football and NOT going to TB.. Hmmmmmmm


http://www.jakeplummerfoundation.org/

Honoring Earl 34
03-04-2007, 07:12 AM
If the Texans objective is to clean up the salary mess then go with Sage , draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd , trade Carr or cut Carr and move on .

They won two games last year with a combined 80 yds passing ( Browns , Raiders ) . I'm thinking it was'nt the QB who won those games .

I think these are growing pains from the first five years . If the Texans go out and compete on both sides of the ball next year while Mario and Demeco play close to an all pro level ... then maybe we've got something .

thunderkyss
03-04-2007, 10:05 AM
Being reported that Plummer on his website is now Retiring from Football and NOT going to TB.. Hmmmmmmm


http://www.jakeplummerfoundation.org/

Plummer would have to talk to Tampa Bay now, He's got to pay them a portion of any bonus he received in Denver in order for the Buc's to cut him. If he never plays a down for Tampa Bay, they don't owe a draft pick to Denver, but get to keep that money.

However, there is no reason for the Buc's to cut him. They don't need his money(they didn't pay it to him), and they don't need him to play(they've got Garcia(the #1 QB FA), Simms, GradKowski, & Rattay... they need to lighten the load at QB all ready.

Then Jake pretty much snubbed them, if anything they owe the Snake a little payback, and they have the rights to keep him out of the league for the next three years.

If Houston, or any other team wants him, they'll have to sweeten the pot, and give Tampa something they want. Players, draft picks... something.

Far as I know, we don't want to give up anything for Jake, but if Jake & Kubes have been text messaging each other, orchestrating this entire thing, then Kubes has to do something... it's only right.

keyfro
03-04-2007, 10:55 AM
they announced it on kffl.com too

Buccaneers | Plummer announces retirement, files paperwork
Sat, 3 Mar 2007 23:42:25 -0800

Stephen Holder, of the St. Petersburg Times, reports Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB Jake Plummer has announced his retirement. Plummer filed his paperwork for retirement Friday, March 2, but the process is not complete. Plummer posted a message on his charitable foundation's website saying his decision was final. "I want to thank my family and close friends for their loyal support through these fun-filled, roller-coaster years. Secondly, I owe all of my greatest achievements in football to the men who stood by me as teammates and coaches. Football has been awesome to me in many ways. I leave the game with my health and happiness and look forward to the future. I've got many rivers to cross."

run-david-run
03-04-2007, 11:06 AM
Wow...gotta love the offseason

SamuraiSword
03-04-2007, 12:55 PM
Are you telling us you still want a Plummer. Give up a pick and pay him 5 million. For a guy that isn't a up-grade. I know a couple of posters tried to sell him too us saying " 3 million " and Kubiak was saying that Carr was let down by him, but this year he would do a better job with Carr. Pencil that really reaching. Snake has been talking since Nov. about being his last year. My advice to you.. is don't be a stalker.

If Plummer isn't an upgrade then Yahoo sports lied about this.....

Plummer, who has three years left on his contract and is due $5.3 million in 2007, led Denver to the AFC championship game two seasons ago but was benched after 11 games last season for rookie Jay Cutler. His .722 winning percentage with the Broncos from 2003-06 is the fourth-best in the NFL behind Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bucs-qbs&prov=ap&type=lgns

QB75
03-04-2007, 01:05 PM
If Plummer isn't an upgrade then Yahoo sports lied about this.....

Plummer, who has three years left on his contract and is due $5.3 million in 2007, led Denver to the AFC championship game two seasons ago but was benched after 11 games last season for rookie Jay Cutler. His .722 winning percentage with the Broncos from 2003-06 is the fourth-best in the NFL behind Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bucs-qbs&prov=ap&type=lgns

Hopefully, the retirement announcement is sincere. If not, hope he signs with Bucs.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2007, 01:28 PM
Are you telling us you still want a Plummer. Give up a pick and pay him 5 million. For a guy that isn't a up-grade. I know a couple of posters tried to sell him too us saying " 3 million " and Kubiak was saying that Carr was let down by him, but this year he would do a better job with Carr. Pencil that really reaching. Snake has been talking since Nov. about being his last year. My advice to you.. is don't be a stalker.

Dude. Where are you reading all of that into my post? I never said anything about how much Plummer would cost and although I consider Plummer to be an upgrade to Carr, Plummer has never been high on my list of guys to get.

All I said was that maybe Plummer prefers us to Tampa Bay because he doesn't consider our line as bad as some of the posters on this MB.

I was also saying that everyone is assuming that Plummer was trying to force Shanahans hand to release him or trade him to us and that's a big assumption.

Maybe you should read what I wrote again.

And, dammit, I'm very good at stalking.

Kaiser Toro
03-04-2007, 01:36 PM
No Stalking baby. No stalking on the dance floor.

Lucky
03-04-2007, 01:38 PM
I was also saying that everyone is assuming that Plummer was trying to force Shanahans hand to release him or trade him to us and that's a big assumption.
It's not that big of an assumption. Plummer had from the end of the season until he was traded (the 1st time) to announce his retirement. He didn't retire until the trade with the Bucs was made. I'm going to continue to assume it was because he wasn't released outright or traded to Houston.

From Plummer's "retirement" announcement:
Secondly, I owe all of my greatest achievements in football to the men who stood by me as teammates and coaches.Nice subtle slam at Shanahan as you walk out the door, Jake.

QB75
03-04-2007, 01:41 PM
It's not that big of an assumption. Plummer had from the end of the season until he was traded (the 1st time) to announce his retirement. He didn't retire until the trade with the Bucs was made. I'm going to continue to assume it was because he wasn't released outright or traded to Houston.

From Plummer's "retirement" announcement:
Nice subtle slam at Shanahan as you walk out the door, Jake.

Shanahan deserved nothing more since he traded Plummer somewhere he didn't want to go. Shanahan's slam wasn't quite so subtle. :shades:

Lucky
03-04-2007, 01:46 PM
Shanahan deserved nothing more since he traded Plummer somewhere he didn't want to go.
I agree. Just as I think the Texans should release Carr, rather than holdout for a trade. Give the guy the best opportunity he has at finding another gig.

QB75
03-04-2007, 01:52 PM
I agree. Just as I think the Texans should release Carr, rather than holdout for a trade. Give the guy the best opportunity he has at finding another gig.

Carr has said nothing publicly about desiring to be traded. In fact, he has expressed the desire to be part of the Texans in 2007. Plummer was demoted to backup and then expressed a desire to play elsewhere, expressly eliminating Tampa Bay. It's a different situation.

Lucky
03-04-2007, 01:57 PM
It's a different situation.
We're not talking about the same thing. If you assume that the Texans don't want Carr back, as I've inferred from offseason statements and manuevering, what would be best for David. A trade or a release? I'm thinking outright release, since he could choose the team most favorable to him. And I'm saying that Denver should have shown Plummer the same consideration.

Vinny
03-04-2007, 02:15 PM
We're not talking about the same thing. If you assume that the Texans don't want Carr back, as I've inferred from off season statements and manuevering, what would be best for David. A trade or a release? I'm thinking outright release, since he could choose the team most favorable to him. And I'm saying that Denver should have shown Plummer the same consideration.What you are saying in a nutshell is that the Texans should Sharper/Glenn him and not leverage their situation. Is it not best to behave aggressively and maneuver like this was a competition (you know, kinda like Denver and Tampa Bay are both doing) and not like this was just one of those events where everyone gets a ribbon for participation?

SamuraiSword
03-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Hopefully, the retirement announcement is sincere. If not, hope he signs with Bucs.

Remember Plummer wants to be a starter and he wants to play for Kubiak. I bet somewhere during the season Kubiak will find a way to unretire Plummer:doot:

QB75
03-04-2007, 03:07 PM
Remember Plummer wants to be a starter and he wants to play for Kubiak. I bet somewhere during the season Kubiak will find a way to unretire Plummer:doot:

You have a high probability of being right, but I hope not.

HoustonFrog
03-04-2007, 03:13 PM
You have a high probability of being right, but I hope not.

Why?Out of a selfish desire to have Carr still play here?I'd rather Plummer be here and help improve us while grooming another AND have Carr go somewhere where he gets a new lease on playing.

Lucky
03-04-2007, 04:41 PM
What you are saying in a nutshell is that the Texans should Sharper/Glenn him and not leverage their situation.
There was no market for Sharper or Glenn. Parcells wasn't going to give up squat to acquire Glenn. How long did it take Sharper to find a deal as a free agent? 2/3 months? I expect tired debunked commentary from the peanut gallery. Not you.

Honoring Earl 34
03-04-2007, 04:50 PM
Why?Out of a selfish desire to have Carr still play here?I'd rather Plummer be here and help improgve us while grooming another AND have Carr go somewhere where he gets a new lease on playing.


No kidding ... they need to have a little pride .

Somebody is doing every thing they can to show them the door and they would like to stay .

I may be dumb but I'm not a dweeb .... provide your best Offspring Karaoke .

HJam72
03-04-2007, 04:58 PM
I expect tired debunked commentary from the peanut gallery. Not you.

That's right, Vinny. We can speak for ourselves. :drunk:

QB75
03-04-2007, 07:56 PM
Why?Out of a selfish desire to have Carr still play here?I'd rather Plummer be here and help improve us while grooming another AND have Carr go somewhere where he gets a new lease on playing.

1) Carr wants to stay another year. 2) I want to see how he does in a second year under Kubiak. 3) I'm not so interested in bringing in old veterans. That's "why".

keyfro
03-04-2007, 08:28 PM
i fully understand that but after the comments made by robinson it doesn't sound like the players want him back...and if the players don't want him back there is no reason what so ever to bring him back...trade him for whatever you can and move on...i suggest david carr for troy williamson straight up

Second Honeymoon
03-04-2007, 08:50 PM
1) Carr wants to stay another year. 2) I want to see how he does in a second year under Kubiak. 3) I'm not so interested in bringing in old veterans. That's "why".

was last year's embarassing QB play not enough? do you need to see another year of Carr sucking the big one in order to be convinced? he has had 5 YEARS and never shown anything except the ability to be sacked and the ability to cash a fat paycheck.

some of you guys must really be dumb or stubborn because he is never going to amount to a hill of beans yet some of you still compare him to Favre and Elway. blasphemy.

qb75, are you like Carr's boyfriend or poolboy or something? the guy has shown zero since he got here 5 YEARS AGO. It was time to move on after Year 3 but low expectation having fools such as yourself and McNair perpetuate the losing atmosphere and bad football.

Carr sucks and anyone who still thinks he could be any good with the Texans sucks just as much

QB75
03-05-2007, 09:21 AM
i fully understand that but after the comments made by robinson it doesn't sound like the players want him back...and if the players don't want him back there is no reason what so ever to bring him back...trade him for whatever you can and move on...i suggest david carr for troy williamson straight up

Oh, sorry. I didn't realize that the roster decisions depended upon a player popularity vote.

Lucky
03-05-2007, 09:27 AM
1) Carr wants to stay another year...
He hasn't come out and said that. Or anything else, for that matter. If Carr wants to be here, shouldn't he say so?

texans83
03-05-2007, 09:32 AM
He hasn't come out and said that. Or anything else, for that matter. If Carr wants to be here, shouldn't he say so?

No, I mean Carr said he wants to be the texans QB he wants to be here when the team comes around. I agree thought with I dont know how the players will react if is the starting QB next season, hopefully Carr willsay something to spark this franchise and start being the leader if he is still here next year. Something like wow daunte you know when you and AJ pair up in practice we seem to burn you every time or something like that. Something that all the players can look at and notice that Carr isent scared of being the leader. He needs to step up.

QB75
03-05-2007, 09:37 AM
He hasn't come out and said that. Or anything else, for that matter. If Carr wants to be here, shouldn't he say so?

Yes, he has. At the end of last season.

petedy
03-05-2007, 09:41 AM
No, I mean Carr said he wants to be the texans QB he wants to be here when the team comes around. I agree thought with I dont know how the players will react if is the starting QB next season, hopefully Carr willsay something to spark this franchise and start being the leader if he is still here next year. Something like wow daunte you know when you and AJ pair up in practice we seem to burn you every time or something like that. Something that all the players can look at and notice that Carr isent scared of being the leader. He needs to step up.

Carr will not say anything negative about anybody.He didn't when at Fresno State and he won't while a Texan.In fact even if they trade him or release him he won't say anything negative,because it is not his personality.It is not apart of his faith.

Lucky
03-05-2007, 09:49 AM
Yes, he has. At the end of last season.

A lot of things have happened between then and now. Trade rumors aided by words from the GM. Free agent QBs being courted. Teammates speaking out. I'd like to know if he still feels the same about returning. So would other Texans' fans.

texans83
03-05-2007, 09:58 AM
A lot of things have happened between then and now. Trade rumors aided by words from the GM. Free agent QBs being courted. Teammates speaking out. I'd like to know if he still feels the same about returning. So would other Texans' fans.

Im sure teammates have spoke out in the locker room to him about how he has to step up just never to the public untill recently.

thunderkyss
03-05-2007, 10:06 AM
Carr will not say anything negative about anybody.He didn't when at Fresno State and he won't while a Texan.In fact even if they trade him or release him he won't say anything negative,because it is not his personality.It is not apart of his faith.

Are he & his brother of different faiths?? His brother has no problem getting down & dirty with the best of them.

Mr teX
03-05-2007, 10:16 AM
Wow, it is pure unadultered hate for this guy on here (DC), moreso than i originally thought.

real
03-05-2007, 10:38 AM
I'm a "Carr hater" and proud of it.

Mr teX
03-05-2007, 10:48 AM
It is sad isn't it? I personally don't understand it, but they have a right to their opinions. I don't share it and I don't "hate" on anyone. Hate and anger are very dangerous emotions and I hope, if DC stays here they will cheer him and our team on. If not, they the (DC haters) have a long YEAR of negative vibes headed their way. That's really depressing to me, to think they could actually continue their rantings for that long a period. OH well...it's their right isn't it. Not everyone is a "hater" some are very classy individuals!:winky:

Yeah, it is there opnion, but some of these guys already have sage penciled in as the starter & have DC gone to TB,Minn,Denver..wherever. I was reading the other thread about Ramsey & some wouldn't mind seeing him come in to "compete" for the starting job. HELLO? am i missing something, Ramsey is no better than DC & if you're going to go that far, why not go & get Aaron Brooks, or Kurt Warner. It just seems that they want ANYBODY who isn't DC & that's tells me that there is an intense desperation to et rid of him, with really nothing out there much better.

& i understand the whole "under-performing for what your getting paid" argument, but the same could be said for many of the players still on the roster. Just give it a rest already folks. For all that Dunta said, he hasn't really done much since his rookie season either so he needs to be quiet.

real
03-05-2007, 10:57 AM
Good for you...How's that working for ya?

It's not going to change anything, just keeps the negative going and going.

I think that some of you actually enjoy "DC hating" I don't think that even if we were to keep him and start winning that you'd EVER find anything you like about him. So it almost "negates" your feelings and posts...because it's so redundant. OVER AND OVER AND OVER, the same ole' thing, it gets to the points of "nobodies listening" because you say it over and over again. Nothing original.

I know someone, who's name I won't mention, that is ALWAYS negative, even if something good is happening she can find something negative to say about it. It gets to the point that NO ONE wants to be around her or invite her to anything. She's like poisen to the family. I wouldn't want to be poisen, it's too deadly and expensive!

You have the right to your feelings, and so do I...those are just my opinions on negative attitudes. Have a good day!


What makes your attitude toward David Carr more right than anyone elses ?

Why is it o.k for you to want DC on this team but it's not o.k for others and myself to want him off this team ?

It has nothing to do with Carr the man and everything to do with Carr the player...

And as far as hearing things over and over again....Trust me I know the feeling....

All I ever see from "Carr lovers" are the same old excuses...

Buddy get a clue...No one is more guilty than anyone else...The same things can be said about people on both sides of the argument. You all are just as guilty of keeping the Carr talk alive because if no one took up for him, there'd be no one to argue with. We all have our opinions and someone will be proven right, and someone will be proven wrong...

That's the way it's been since man has been arguing.

michaelm
03-05-2007, 11:31 AM
No Stalking baby. No stalking on the dance floor.

Niiiiice...
When's the last time a Midnight Star reference was dropped on this MB?
About never ago, that's when.

Word up.

My Cameo is done, and I'm 5000, G....

real
03-05-2007, 11:59 AM
Well, you are correct is saying that it goes both ways. The only thing I would add is this: How does being so completely negative about anyone benefit the fan base or the team?

How does blindly supporting a terrible player that plays THE most important position on the team benefit the team ?



....like I said it can go both ways...

No one has been proven right or wrong at this point, and all the post back and forth aren't going to prove anything...

Some people want Carr, some people don't....simple as that...

All this negative talk stuff is BOGUS, because I think that wanting Carr to stay on the team is negative talk...

As I said...it goes both ways...at this point no one is more right than anyone...

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2007, 12:08 PM
Ok, I re-read your post. I'm confused. So I did it again, follow the different threads, got more confused. Then I lost track who said what and how many where talking. So before my head starts hurting from all this hard work. I was asking, and adding more info. on said post. As for your stalking, hunting for girls at the beach when you were young does not count as stalking. Now, to settle this.. I will spring for the beers and will talk about all the great looking car's made in 1961. :party:

:)

And, yes, I ended up marrying the girl I stalked and I stalked her so well that she thought she had chased me until we'd been married for 5 years. :aikido:

Here's to 1961! :drunk:

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2007, 12:20 PM
Well, you are correct is saying that it goes both ways. The only thing I would add is this: How does being so completely negative about anyone benefit the fan base or the team? At lease the ones that are optomistic about DC are flexable both ways.

Nothing any of us does benefits the fan base or the team. The whole purpose of this MB is to discuss our favorite team, the players on it, and basically what's going on with it. It's not about everybody partaking in a group hug and singing kum-bay-ya. If everybody has the same opinion, then there's no discussion.

And, no, the "positive" people are not necessarily flexible in their opinions. There are people who are inflexible in their beliefs about Carr on both sides of this just as there are people who are flexible in their beliefs about Carr on both sides. Last year at this time, I was a Carr defender and placed on the Carr Lover side. After his bad performance this year, I think Carr should go and I'm on the Carr Hater side. But I have no "hate" for Carr; I believe it's ridiculous to love or hate someone you don't know and I don't know the man. And even if I knew him, I don't think I would let that cloud my judgment that he's not playing well. My only judgment related to him is his performance and how I expect him to perform in the future. Nothing else. There ARE people on this MB who love and hate him regardless of his performance. Which I personally consider Anti-Texan.

If Kubes can "fix" Carr and get him to perform at even a mediocre NFL QB level*, I will be fine with him staying if he's the best option we have at QB. But I don't think he can. I think that last year, McNair commanded Kubiak to do whatever he could to salvage Carr regardless of whether it resulted in wins or losses. I don't want another of that. I want Kubiak to build a team that will win and I want him to get the best players in here that he can. I think that includes shipping Carr out but it might not.

* At this point, I do not consider his performance at the level of an NFL starting QB.

Lucky
03-05-2007, 12:27 PM
I know someone, who's name I won't mention, that is ALWAYS negative, even if something good is happening she can find something negative to say about it. It gets to the point that NO ONE wants to be around her or invite her to anything. She's like poisen to the family. I wouldn't want to be poisen, it's too deadly and expensive!
Whose family?

real
03-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Nothing any of us does benefits the fan base or the team. The whole purpose of this MB is to discuss our favorite team, the players on it, and basically what's going on with it. It's not about everybody partaking in a group hug and singing kum-bay-ya. If everybody has the same opinion, then there's no discussion.

And, no, the "positive" people are not necessarily flexible in their opinions. There are people who are inflexible in their beliefs about Carr on both sides of this just as there are people who are flexible in their beliefs about Carr on both sides. Last year at this time, I was a Carr defender and placed on the Carr Lover side. After his bad performance this year, I think Carr should go and I'm on the Carr Hater side. But I have no "hate" for Carr; I believe it's ridiculous to love or hate someone you don't know and I don't know the man. And even if I knew him, I don't think I would let that cloud my judgment that he's not playing well. My only judgment related to him is his performance and how I expect him to perform in the future. Nothing else. There ARE people on this MB who love and hate him regardless of his performance. Which I personally consider Anti-Texan.

If Kubes can "fix" Carr and get him to perform at even a mediocre NFL QB level*, I will be fine with him staying if he's the best option we have at QB. But I don't think he can. I think that last year, McNair commanded Kubiak to do whatever he could to salvage Carr regardless of whether it resulted in wins or losses. I don't want another of that. I want Kubiak to build a team that will win and I want him to get the best players in here that he can. I think that includes shipping Carr out but it might not.

* At this point, I do not consider his performance at the level of an NFL starting QB.

You pretty much said what I couldn't find the words to say....Thanks...

Texanfan4ever
03-05-2007, 12:54 PM
What people have trouble understanding is how you can actually say "I hate David Carr"? You can't hate him, you don't even know him, that is ludicrous. Now you can hate the way he plays football, that is different. But that is not how you feel. You actually love to "hate" him and are obsessed with it.

That is what is hard to understand. They guy has gotten a raw deal here for the most part. The people here have empathy for him due to that raw deal. Had he started with a team as a backup to learn, he wouldn't have the problems we know he has today. But he gets knocked down, and always gets back up. He's a good guy and I wish him the best no matter what happens.

To hate him is a waste of time. Try to look forward. :shades:

real
03-05-2007, 01:37 PM
What people have trouble understanding is how you can actually say "I hate David Carr"? You can't hate him, you don't even know him, that is ludicrous. Now you can hate the way he plays football, that is different. But that is not how you feel. You actually love to "hate" him and are obsessed with it.

That is what is hard to understand. They guy has gotten a raw deal here for the most part. The people here have empathy for him due to that raw deal. Had he started with a team as a backup to learn, he wouldn't have the problems we know he has today. But he gets knocked down, and always gets back up. He's a good guy and I wish him the best no matter what happens.

To hate him is a waste of time. Try to look forward. :shades:

I think that's where the misconception lies....

I HATE David's play....

I don't even know the Man...

thunderkyss
03-05-2007, 01:51 PM
Well, you are correct is saying that it goes both ways. The only thing I would add is this: How does being so completely negative about anyone benefit the fan base or the team? At lease the ones that are optomistic about DC are flexable both ways. They seem to love him and want him to suceed even if it means he goes to another team to do so. Your side on the other hand has not room for error. You don't like him, don't want him here, don't care where he goes, etc.


I don't care what you do with David, as long as you don't start him for the Houston Texans. He's not ready for it, and one offseason isn't going to change that.

real
03-05-2007, 02:32 PM
Yes, but "HATE" is an all inclusive word...and a "harsh" one to that point. Would it just "KILL" those of you who dislike him so, to say even ONE positive thing about the man? He must be a decent QB if he finished the season with almost a 69 percent completion rating. I'm sure you can find a way to misconscrew, "I know it's spelled misconstrue...I added the screw part" that figure too. Plus lead the league for a nice portion of the season in PassRating. (Mess with that one too). He IS an NFL QB, with value, even though you don't believe him to be. (my opinion)

I am simply embaracing the title that was given to me...

I don't think of myself as a "Carr Hater", but often times I'll call myself that just because that's the title that has been handed out to anyone who doesn't want David on the team...A "Carr Hater" is someone who hates him, just because...I have reasons for not liking his play...

I think of myself more as a "Texan lover", who thinks getting rid of David will be beneficial to this team...

I don't understand why you're making it out to be bigger than it is...You think David being on this team is best...I don't...

It's just a difference of opinion...It has nothing to do with my love or hate for anyone...The only thing I care about is the Texans....period

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2007, 03:40 PM
If he "sucked" like you say, then I would tend to agree with you, but to say that he's not an NFL starting QB is just not a reasonable statement. He doesn't suck, he needs to improve yes, but considering what he has had to work with, I'm willing to give him that point.

The board is for fans to debate about their players, but from my observation there seems to be only one player that gets the blame. Totally undeserving, in my opinion. Move on. Lots of other topics to cover around here from my standpoint.

A group hug isn't what I'm suggesting, just a little "decency" is all. I save hugs for people I care about. If there aren't some standards to write and live by, then in my opinion, there are NONE and everything and everyone is "free-game" and you invite the crazies and weirdo's to say just anything and everything they want. You can have an opinion without saying things that are totally out of place.

You want to dislike DC or anyother player on the team for that matter, then do so, but do so with a little dignity and respect. Give an opinion that at least is sound and reasonable, like some of you I've read do have. Those are things I enjoy reading here on the MB.

But, you have the right to express it however you wish and I'm sure that you will regardless of what I say. :winky:

A starting level NFL QB doesn't throw for -5 net yards in a game unless they are injured. I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a QB who throws for less than 100 yards in a full game 3 times in 2 years or throws only 1 meaningful TD pass in an entire half a season and keeps his job. On almost any other team in the league, Carr would have been benched and released. That's why I say he's not a starting level NFL QB. If you don't think his performance level sucked, then I can't understand what games you've watched.

And from your response, it seems you didn't read what I had written past a certain point OR you just don't believe me. Let me say this one more time and see if you get it this time, I don't like or dislike DC. In the context of playing football as an NFL QB, he sucks that's not a value judgment on him as a person but on his performance as an NFL QB and what I consider to be his value going forward as an NFL QB. I would love to be wrong about that. I would love for DC to turn this thing around and become the great HOF QB that some people think he's going to be. I would love for him to lead the Texans to the Super Bowl but I can't honestly say that I expect that to happen. If he goes to another team, I will wish him the best as long as he's not playing us. I'm not hoping that he be a failure

There are standards to write and live by and I'm writing and living by them. I haven't said anything out of place. Being negative about someone isn't being out of place. And if you think it is, then this MB is not a place you probably want to be.

And since you apparently haven't been here very long, although there's a strong contingent of people here who think Carr should be shown the door, he's not the only player whose play has been questioned. Frankly, I can't think of a single player other than Demeco and probably Vonta Leach whose play HASN'T been questioned. AJ has been criticized for drops. Dunta has been criticised for not getting picks and not shutting guys down. Mario, TJ, Babin, ... well... the entire defense has been criticized at one time or another. So, this isn't just about Carr.

thunderkyss
03-05-2007, 04:27 PM
A starting level NFL QB doesn't throw for -5 net yards in a game unless they are injured. I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a QB who throws for less than 100 yards in a full game 3 times in 2 years or throws only 1 meaningful TD pass in an entire half a season and keeps his job. On almost any other team in the league, Carr would have been benched and released. That's why I say he's not a starting level NFL QB. If you don't think his performance level sucked, then I can't understand what games you've watched.


Regardless of the status of the Offensive line. No QB with this kind of production would still be starting at the end of the season, and there is no way in hell he'd be considered the starter going into the next season. NO way.

Honoring Earl 34
03-05-2007, 04:42 PM
I heard the Ahman Green interview on 790 ... he was ask why did he come to the Texans when he could have gone to Denver .

He said that he believes the Texans will be winners .

He was ask why he thought that . He said .... I can see it in the eyes of the players like AJ , SAGE , and so on . He said Sage a why would he be talking to a backup QB .. Hmmmm ... I don't know .

Navy_Chris
03-05-2007, 04:46 PM
I heard the Ahman Green interview on 790 ... he was ask why did he come to the Texans when he could have gone to Denver .

He said that he believes the Texans will be winners .

He was ask why he thought that . He said .... I can see it in the eyes of the players like AJ , SAGE , and so on . He said Sage a why would he be talking to a backup QB .. Hmmmm ... I don't know .

All this time, I thought I was the biggest/only Sage supporter on the boards. Congratulations, Sage! make us proud.

SheTexan
03-05-2007, 04:49 PM
He also said he would help block for CARR!! Something like that anyway!

El Amigo Invisible
03-05-2007, 04:51 PM
Help please.

freedoggy77
03-05-2007, 04:53 PM
Do This Deal

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2007, 05:12 PM
I've watched many games. I didn't see anything that DC did last year, that many top QB's didn't do as well in 07. I can hardly name a single one (maybe Payton) that didn't have a horrendous game or two. I watched them throw 3, 4 picks a game and fumbles that led to TD's...so what? Hey, it happens and they had much better teams around them. That goes for the college QB's as well. They didn't show me much either. THEY ALL FAIL from time to time, but with much better teams. I don't use one or two games to judge someone's performance. You may, I don't choose to, that's your right.

I'm sure you do judge other players on this board, and no I haven't been here long. I have watched and finally decided to put in my 2 cents. But, if you qualify all the threads, you'd find that the ones about DC outnumber the rest. I'd probably bet on it, but I could be wrong.

I'm sure you can throw out some stats for me and construe them anyway you want to make them fall into your favor. I can take the same ones and do the same, that's why I don't choose to throw many out there. Everyone has their own opinion on them one way or another. You can be negative about a play or a player, but there are those who take it to a whole new level. I have no doubt that you are an intelligent writer and person. I'm sure there are many on here as well, but at this point it's looked pretty one sided to me. I would love to be wrong.

We can definately agree to disagree. No problem at all, we are all on the side of the TEXAN'S. That we can agree on!:marionaner:

I don't mind one or two bad games. At the beginning of the season, I expected Carr to perform badly: he was in a new system, Kubiak was trying to remove some of the bad habits from the previous regime, etc. I expected Carr to start off slow and then for his performance to pick up as the year went along. If this was a few bad games at the beginning of the season, I'd still be defending him. If this was a couple of bad games or one or two bad plays, I'd still be defending him. Everybody has a bad play or a bad game but when you start making those bad plays consistently and having bad games consistently, then it's time to look for someone new.

He got worse as the season went on. As our defense improved and we stopped facing teams in prevent defenses, Carr's performance nosedived. We started winning games when we minimized Carr's involvement and when we started relying on our supposedly non-existent running game and non-existent defense. As bad as our team is, we finished 6-10 and with even average QB play, we would have finished 8-8 and possibly been in the playoff hunt at the end of the season.

Yes, DC threads outnumber threads about other players but that wasn't your point. You said that no one gets blamed but Carr and that's patently not true. Our offensive line and our defense have been raked over the coals many, many times. Carr gets a lot of play because the majority of people on this MB believe that if we just upgraded that one position, we would greatly improve our team and that upgrading the QB position shouldn't be that hard and other people disagree.

If Carr goes, then we'll turn our attention to the next worse performing position on our team. That will probably be the free safety but it might be the offensive tackles. That's just the way these discussions boards work. And don't think that the incoming QB is going to have a lot of latitude in his playing. Because of all the arguments that have gone on about Carr, whoever replaces him is going to be under a microscope. And if he performs well, then some people are going to say it's because he had more tools to work with than Carr did and he's still a bum because Carr could have done it better.

That's just the nature of the beast.

QB75
03-06-2007, 10:22 PM
was last year's embarassing QB play not enough? do you need to see another year of Carr sucking the big one in order to be convinced? he has had 5 YEARS and never shown anything except the ability to be sacked and the ability to cash a fat paycheck.

some of you guys must really be dumb or stubborn because he is never going to amount to a hill of beans yet some of you still compare him to Favre and Elway. blasphemy.

qb75, are you like Carr's boyfriend or poolboy or something? the guy has shown zero since he got here 5 YEARS AGO. It was time to move on after Year 3 but low expectation having fools such as yourself and McNair perpetuate the losing atmosphere and bad football.

Carr sucks and anyone who still thinks he could be any good with the Texans sucks just as much

No surprise. :shades:

NFLforher
03-06-2007, 10:49 PM
He also said he would help block for CARR!! Something like that anyway!



Hi! Nice to see you. Thank you for the book. :)

Carr Bombed
03-06-2007, 11:01 PM
Damn yall got me excited I though we had some breaking news :winky:

swtbound07
03-07-2007, 02:10 AM
All this time, I thought I was the biggest/only Sage supporter on the boards. Congratulations, Sage! make us proud.

I was calling for sage to start last year, week one....i saw it in preseason

petedy
03-07-2007, 03:21 AM
I was calling for sage to start last year, week one....i saw it in preseason

Oh Saints a live! There is a prophet among us.Yes oh yes,Sage is the man.Sage will fix it all like in Miami. He is the face of the Texans now and his one half of play in the Titans game proves all of it. Carr evil,Carr bad he put a hex on the team and made a five year old team look like crap all by his lonesome self.But don't worry mighty Sage is here to save the day and make every play.David will not be here to even see the play.So you all just stay and make hay about Sage's play.:tease:

kiwitexansfan
03-07-2007, 03:34 AM
I was calling for sage to start last year, week one....i saw it in preseason

It's only preseason man, it doesn't count. It's not real NFL football.

swtbound07
03-07-2007, 03:47 AM
Because i can't bump a locked thread, i made this post on 8-13-2006

For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.


and now people are legitimately calling for Sage to be a starter..man i was ahead of my time

kiwitexansfan
03-07-2007, 03:51 AM
Indeed people are calling for him to start now.

However I honestly think you were wrong then and that anyone one who wants him now are wrong now.

In saying that though if he beats Carr out, or we deal Carr and Sage gets the keys to the franchise, I will be all about Mr Rosenfels and wishing him every success.

U4ikrob
03-07-2007, 06:46 AM
and now people are legitimately calling for Sage to be a starter..man i was ahead of my time

Legitimately? - I think thats a stretch. Fans just want a winner - thats nothing new SWT. Sage has certainly not proved anything yet and he played in pre-season last year some also. He's shown himself thus far in his career to be nothing more than a below average backup QB at best - he doesnt have any wins under his belt to show for his play in 7 years in the league -and you think this guy is starting material?

There is alot more than one reason he wasnt able to play in Miami or Washington. You want to compare him to Carr? Lets look at the stat sheet. Why dont we throw in another QB too for comparison - how about I guess Rex Grossman - a Super Bowl QB.

Sage - http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235151
David - http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268
Rex - http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396159

Not much difference between Carr and Grossman that im seeing for last year. Both Rex and David have very similar stats with the big numbers in TD to Interception ratios & stats across the board. Rex got more TD's and more interceptions, but both averaged about the same including completion %, yards, QB rating etc... David is better stat wise than Rex or Sage. Rex sat the bench the last 3 years and got to start this year and showe dhimself as inconcsistent. Sage has shown nada in 7 years on 3 teams. To me there is not much to compare with as David is shown himself to be below average also in other places. To me all 3 need to develop their games and spend alot more time in a film room, practicing on their own to get comfortable and just let the game come to them rather than trying to force something to happen. DC and Grossman both did it alot last year. I think if DC were allowed to stay with Kubes - his development will improve alot. Of course it will be DC's 4th OC and 5th scheme in 6 years - but whose counting that stuff -eh?

Hopefully Sage does good in camp and shows he's the guy for the job. IMO though if he starts and Bombs the first 3 games - you and everyone else calling for him to start will be looking pretty foolish and the problems with this team everyone else is talking about will look even more glaring.

Honestly - I understand everyones huff about DC and that he hasnt produced wins for the team - But itsd still a team game. I certainly think he can play better than he has, but the same can be said about alot players on this team - including our own Mr Mouth -Dunta-burnt by #3 WR-Robinson. Dunta has some work to do now to backup his talk cause his history has shown him to be a decent cover corner - nothing more. 1 pick in 05 - 2 picks last year and he's talking trash? He still gets burnt regularly on post and out routes. Yet he wants to throw the QB under the bus? The defense allowed more than a few losses last year as I recall where the offense did ok. Those games could have been wins if we could have stopped the other team from driving 70+ yards in under 2 minutes to win the game. That happened more than once last year and has nothing to do with whose playing QB on our team.

infantrycak
03-07-2007, 08:46 AM
PLUMMER BLUFFING ABOUT RETIRING

A source with knowledge of the situation tells us that quarterback Jake Plummer does not intend to retire, and that he is (as suspected) trying to get to Houston, where he would be reunited with former Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak.

Plummer's desire to play for the Texans would help explain the failure of the team, in the wake of his supposed retirement, to hit the market and sign a veteran quarterback, since it's widely believed that David Carr is finished there.

Some league insiders believe that, in the end, Houston will acquire his rights, presumably via a trade with the Buccaneers.

Link (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm)

Rumors still flying.

marv800
03-07-2007, 10:07 AM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

A source with knowledge of the situation tells us that quarterback Jake Plummer does not intend to retire, and that he is (as suspected) trying to get to Houston, where he would be reunited with former Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak.

Plummer's desire to play for the Texans would help explain the failure of the team, in the wake of his supposed retirement, to hit the market and sign a veteran quarterback, since it's widely believed that David Carr is finished there.

Some league insiders believe that, in the end, Houston will acquire his rights, presumably via a trade with the Buccaneers.

Mr. White
03-07-2007, 10:11 AM
I don't think we'll be able to get him without giving up a draft pick. Just won't happen. Dunno, but maybe signing Ramsey would bolster our position.

Could be that the Texans have a plan and are just playing cool...

A Texan
03-07-2007, 10:13 AM
Hopefully Sage does good in camp and shows he's the guy for the job. IMO though if he starts and Bombs the first 3 games - you and everyone else calling for him to start will be looking pretty foolish and the problems with this team everyone else is talking about will look even more glaring.

Do you not see the hipocracy here? You want to say that Carr's 5 years here don't matter and he should be given a 6th year and yet you want Sage to be judged after 3 games. The whole problem here is that Carr has been annointed King David from Day 1 and no one has ever been allowed to compete with him. This is the main reason that so many people are against David even being here. Other positions where a player has been underperforming other players will be tried until they find out who's best. The RB position was a revolving door all season, but don't even suggest that someone else start at QB. I get the feeling that the Texans' attitude has always been that Carr is being paid too much to sit on the bench. That kind of thinking is a loser attitude. Any player at any position needs to earn the job not have it handed to him. In the whole history of the franchise no one has ever been allowed to start except a couple of games where David was hurt.

marv800
03-07-2007, 10:13 AM
hell, I think Plummer is worth giving up our 1st round pick.

HoustonFrog
03-07-2007, 10:14 AM
I don't think we'll be able to get him without giving up a draft pick. Just won't happen. Dunno, but maybe signing Ramsey would bolster our position.

Could be that the Texans have a plan and are just playing cool...

The Texans all along have said they don't want to give up the picks they have now so if they made this move I'd think they would wait and see what they can get for Carr and then parlay that pick. JMHO.

tulexan
03-07-2007, 10:14 AM
hell, I think Plummer is worth giving up our 1st round pick.

I'm glad that you are not our GM.

jerek
03-07-2007, 10:17 AM
I'm glad that you are not our GM.

Seriously. At least David Carr's brother admits his bias on here.

Blu
03-07-2007, 10:18 AM
I'm glad that you are not our GM.
WORD!

energyo
03-07-2007, 10:18 AM
I'm glad that you are not our GM.

Lmao.

For some reason I can actually see Plummer playing for us...
I just hope we don't get Patrick Ramsey or someone like him. I'd rather stick with carr for another year than have Ramsey.

Sportsfan
03-07-2007, 10:19 AM
I'm glad that you are not our GM.

Me too.

Malloy
03-07-2007, 10:20 AM
Signing Ramsey AND possibly going after Plummer would make sense, they would all be here for training camp, competing with Rosenfels and Carr. Just because we sign someone now does not mean we'll stick with them through the entire season. Rosenfels, Ramsey and Plummer (not going to include Carr) all have 'something' to prove, they'll all fight hard for the starting job.

I say let's go after both Ramsey AND Plummer, if in fact he is considering Houston.

On the pick-thing, would a next-year pick be worth giving up for Plummer?
I like the idea of a conditional pick, if Plummer starts 8+ games next season we'll trade the Bucs (or Denver or whoever REALLY owns him) a pick... ?

El Amigo Invisible
03-07-2007, 10:21 AM
hell, I think Plummer is worth giving up our 1st round pick.

Please don not ever say that again. No Offense to you. I just do not want the front office to feel the same way you do.:drunk:

santo
03-07-2007, 10:22 AM
hell, I think Plummer is worth giving up our 1st round pick.

:drunk::this:

Porky
03-07-2007, 10:23 AM
hell, I think Plummer is worth giving up our 1st round pick.


What? You cannot be serious.

On a sane note, I would be ok with a second day pick, preferably no higher than a 5th, but in a pinch I would sacrifice a 4th.

I don't think Plummer is the savior but he would instantly be the best QB this team has had by a mile.

El Amigo Invisible
03-07-2007, 10:24 AM
Lmao.

For some reason I can actually see Plummer playing for us...
I just hope we don't get Patrick Ramsey or someone like him. I'd rather stick with carr for another year than have Ramsey.

LOVE IT!!!!

texans83
03-07-2007, 10:25 AM
Texans already said they will not give up any picks so I think they will infact bring in Plummer somehow and let Sage Plummer and let them battle it out. I think they will draft Quinn and let him be the future of the Franchise. As far as Ramsey they just brought him in incase Plummer was in fact going to retire. I dont see them bringing in both

El Amigo Invisible
03-07-2007, 10:30 AM
Sage looks like he has durability issues (last year).We should have been grooming Vince Young this whole past year and we would have been set. Now we are thinking of Sage,Plummer and Quinn :brickwall : I know I am thinking negative but HOW DID IT COME TO THIS??

Texans Horror
03-07-2007, 10:31 AM
I think what the Texans want most is to keep their picks. They may want Plummer, and they may want to trade Carr, but not unless the deal is right, and not if it's going to cost them team development.

real
03-07-2007, 10:31 AM
Signing Ramsey AND possibly going after Plummer would make sense, they would all be here for training camp, competing with Rosenfels and Carr.

I don't forsee all those QB's comong to camp....

I think Carr is gone regardless...But if they get Plummer and Ramsey, I definitely see Carr being dealt....

U4ikrob
03-07-2007, 10:32 AM
Do you not see the hipocracy here? You want to say that Carr's 5 years here don't matter and he should be given a 6th year and yet you want Sage to be judged after 3 games. The whole problem here is that Carr has been annointed King David from Day 1 and no one has ever been allowed to compete with him. This is the main reason that so many people are against David even being here. Other positions where a player has been underperforming other players will be tried until they find out who's best. The RB position was a revolving door all season, but don't even suggest that someone else start at QB. I get the feeling that the Texans' attitude has always been that Carr is being paid too much to sit on the bench. That kind of thinking is a loser attitude. Any player at any position needs to earn the job not have it handed to him. In the whole history of the franchise no one has ever been allowed to start except a couple of games where David was hurt.

What hipocracy?? - Did you read my post man? It doesnt sound like it - :twocents:

Want to say what?? Who said anything about Carr's time here not mattering and not making him be accountable for his time and "Giving him a 6th year"? - boggle

I addressed those facts for sure. - What i said was - "I certainly think he can play better than he has - To me all 3 need to develop their games and spend alot more time in a film room, practicing on their own to get comfortable and just let the game come to them rather than trying to force something to happen. DC and Grossman both did it alot last year. I think if DC were allowed to stay with Kubes - his development will improve alot. Of course it will be DC's 4th OC and 5th scheme in 6 years - but whose counting that stuff -eh?"

Thats what I said - your pulling at straws that arent there IMO

I wasnt - "Trying to say " anything. IMO think overall DC hasnt done enough with his time and he needs to step it up and spend more time in the film room and practice on his own to be abetter QB. But i'm not going to ignore other factors like him having a revolving door at the OC position - no QB coach [until last year], an O-line thats ranked at the bottom of the league, No Tight end for his first 4 years and has for the most part street scrubs and fill-in players all around him except for the one Pro-bowl WR. Can DC step upp his part and play better - Sure - So can alot of players. IMO think DC and Sage should both compete in camp and let the winner start. IMO DC has lost his "Killer Instinct" edge which you need to have to play a sport like Football. I think 4 years of sacks have beaten him into a shell of his former QB self at Fresno. But his first half of last season he was leading the league in QB rating and pass percentage so obviously he was making some progress. We lost our starting LT, center and RT on the O-line and had no running game until the end of the year as you mentioned - so are we to expect a winning team with that kind of combo of injuries and lack of production or is the under-performing QB the only Scapegoat?

As for judging Sage after 3 games - I am looking at his 7 years in the league and his lack of production everywhere - not just his 3 games played here. Ive actually watched him in Miami and here. He showed a few good points, but some bad ones too - that includes his play here. You have to consider his whole body of work - not just one game where he did good for 2 quarters. All QB's have good and bad sides. Steve young looked horrible in Tampa, but who will debate his greatness in San Fran? Sage has had 7 years to figure it out in the league and yet still he's not lighting it up anywhere in the league. Those are the facts. I call it like I see it.

IMO Sage should have played a few games last year, but got hurt. Tough break sure, but he didnt exactly light it up inpractice before then enough to beat out David. Kubiak made that call - i'll trust the coach and what he sees in practice every day from the players.

Wolfiegrrl
03-07-2007, 10:32 AM
After watching more film on Quinn, I'm hoping the rumors of Houston moving up to take him are true. I can't explain completely why I feel this would be a great pick up for us. The kid has a great touch on the ball. If we pick up Plummer, it would only be to groom Quinn for the first year. Plummer has to know that his days as a starter really are over.

I will miss David. But perhaps we have a deal in place that will send him to Cleveland + our pick #8 so we can pick Quinn at 3.

HoustonFrog
03-07-2007, 10:35 AM
Sage looks like he has durability issues (last year).We should have been grooming Vince Young this whole past year and we would have been set. Now we are thinking of Sage,Plummer and Quinn :brickwall : I know I am thinking negative but HOW DID IT COME TO THIS??


I'm not sure on that considering he got injured on a freak play where he had to chase down a guy and tackle him. I've never heard of problems besides that.

El Amigo Invisible
03-07-2007, 10:39 AM
I'm not sure on that considering he got injured on a freak play where he had to chase down a guy and tackle him. I've never heard of problems besides that.

Did you see the contact? I am not a David Carr supporter but he DOES NOT have durability issues.One hard hit and we are looking for another QB or to our back up (Ramsey....LOL).

srstex
03-07-2007, 10:41 AM
ABP- Anyone But Plummer, he would set us back three years and I couldn't take it. We have Green run run run, we have AJ, Owen Daniels, and, unless the coaches are deaf dumb and blind Leach. Sherman brought in Leach, good pick up, Sherman brought in Green good pick up, let's continue with the Good decissions, leave Plummer in retirement where he belongs.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2007, 10:48 AM
Sage looks like he has durability issues (last year).We should have been grooming Vince Young this whole past year and we would have been set. Now we are thinking of Sage,Plummer and Quinn :brickwall : I know I am thinking negative but HOW DID IT COME TO THIS??

Well, to be fair, Sage put a pretty nice hit on a guy when he broke his hand. I like to see that kind of mentality in a QB.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2007, 10:53 AM
IMO Sage should have played a few games last year, but got hurt. Tough break sure, but he didnt exactly light it up inpractice before then enough to beat out David. Kubiak made that call - i'll trust the coach and what he sees in practice every day from the players.

I don't think Sage's performance in practice had any impact on him seeing the field. I think the purpose of last year was to start Carr regardless of how he was playing and use that as a training year to get rid of his bad habits. So, at the beginning of the year, Sage could have looked like the next coming of Joe Montana and Carr could have looked like Cody Carlson and Carr still would have been the starting QB.

I think that Sage probably would have started the last few games if he had been healthy. I think that Carr would have been benched during the Raider game if Sage had been healthy.

texans83
03-07-2007, 10:54 AM
After watching more film on Quinn, I'm hoping the rumors of Houston moving up to take him are true. I can't explain completely why I feel this would be a great pick up for us. The kid has a great touch on the ball. If we pick up Plummer, it would only be to groom Quinn for the first year. Plummer has to know that his days as a starter really are over.

I will miss David. But perhaps we have a deal in place that will send him to Cleveland + our pick #8 so we can pick Quinn at 3.

this is what I feel they will do

U4ikrob
03-07-2007, 11:00 AM
To modify what someone above is using - im in the ABQ group - Anyone but Quinn. That whole trade up and we give up picks scenario is just another CC deal all over again IMO. We dont need another high paid 1st round QB to be a success - We have to keep all our picks and need more. IMO what we need at QB is someone with experience running a fricking offense and working thru adversity - Plummer has alot of experience in both of those regards.

Come on FO - Bring in the "Plummer" to fix things and lets get this trainwreck back on track! :poker:

HoustonFrog
03-07-2007, 11:08 AM
Did you see the contact? I am not a David Carr supporter but he DOES NOT have durability issues.One hard hit and we are looking for another QB or to our back up (Ramsey....LOL).

Yes and it was a nice hit, something he shouldn't be having to do to other players. It was a fluke deal. I would hope that instincts will take over while taking the hit.

Texan_Bill
03-07-2007, 11:16 AM
this deal sucks. texans are better off getting a fill in qb to groom a rookie like the oilers did with chandler/mcnair. hell i'd take bledsoe or brooks over plummer.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^BINGO^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I would not give up a third for Plummer, when potentially you could draft Kolb or someone like him and groom him for a season or two under some stop gap QB (either a scrub veteran, Sage or even Carr for that matter)...

We NEED picks, not to trade them away.. A trade like that has the C & C factory writtem all over it...

A Texan
03-07-2007, 11:23 AM
Legitimately? - I think thats a stretch. Fans just want a winner - thats nothing new SWT. Sage has certainly not proved anything yet and he played in pre-season last year some also. He's shown himself thus far in his career to be nothing more than a below average backup QB at best - he doesnt have any wins under his belt to show for his play in 7 years in the league -and you think this guy is starting material?

You apparently havent read the bio from this site on Sage for 2005 in Miami:

2005: Played in four games with one start as the backup to starter Gus Frerotte…finished the season completing 34 of his 61 pass attempts for 462 yards and four touchdowns with three interceptions for a 81.4 passer rating…played in a relief role versus Kansas City (10/21) and completed his only pass attempt for a career-long 77-yard touchdown to wide receiver Chris Chambers…tied for the 11 th-longest pass play in Dolphins history…started at Cleveland (11/20) and finished five-for-10 passing for 14 yards with no touchdowns and two interceptions…stepped in when Frerotte suffered an injury versus the Buffalo Bills (12/4) and led the biggest come-from-behind victory by a replacement quarterback in Dolphins history, rallying the team from a 23-3 deficit to a 24-23 win…finished that game with 272 yards on 22-of-37 passing with two touchdowns and one interception in his first-career victory…started the second half versus the New York Jets (12/18) when the score was tied 10-10 and completed six of his 13 pass attempts for 99 yards with one touchdown and no interceptions...led the team to a 24-20 win, giving him his second fourth-quarter comeback win of the season.

Obviously he does have "wins under his belt" and I fail to see anything in the Texans' writeup that would cause anyone to call him a "below average backup".

petedy
03-07-2007, 11:28 AM
I would not wish Cleveland on anyone that team is a death sentence on a QB.
I believe Carr will be released rather than traded.Here are some clues:
1) David can not be found in public anywhere and it's getting to be a where's waldo book with him.
2)Sage has been with Smith and Kubiak at the combine and at every press conference. It is his face that is splashed in front of everyone and not David.
3)Kubiak and Smith have said Carr is the starting QB.This is a death sentence for a player before he is released or traded.This translates to "We are done with you good luck in your life."
4)At the Ramsey presser it was said that Ramsey and Sage would compete for the starting QB postion with no mention of David Carr in the mix.
5)When other teams know this they'll sit low and wait until Carr is released.This way they give up nothing to get him and the Texans have to do something now.
6)Dunta speaks and throws any kind of trade deals for Carr under the bus like he did his teamate.
This whole thing has been handled with absolutely no class and it is indicative of a loser organization.They could have been truthful from the begining and said "David I'm sorry we are going in a different direction and you are no longer in our plans."But no they have to play and dumb poker game in which they think they hold a winning hand but everyone can see what yopu have.:poker:

Texan_Bill
03-07-2007, 11:58 AM
They could have been truthful from the begining and said "David I'm sorry we are going in a different direction and you are no longer in our plans"

I agree with most of your post, the only thing I disagree with, is the fact that it wasn't in the best interest of the team to dismiss Carr too early.. While it is becoming more and more evident that we won't pull off any kind of trade for Carr, you (the Organization) has to at the very least TRY to get something in return for him...

So, with that said, you have to try to play a hand of poker...

U4ikrob
03-07-2007, 12:46 PM
I was counting starting wins - but not to split hairs i'll give on that point as i glanced at his record and just recalled his less than stellar play at Miami. So please tell me why didnt he start in Washington or Miami if he's as good as your asserting - why didnt he beat out DC here in practice and win the job back in camp?

Texan_Bill
03-07-2007, 12:55 PM
I was counting starting wins - but not to split hairs i'll give on that point as i glanced at his record and just recalled his less than stellar play at Miami. So please tell me why didnt he start in Washington or Miami if he's as good as your asserting - why didnt he beat out DC here in practice and win the job back in camp?

Fiedler beat him out in 2001, 2002, and 2003
Feeley got the job in 2004
Gus Ferotte had the job 2005

*Edit* got my years wrong... Actually 2001 was when Sage was in Washington.

A Texan
03-07-2007, 02:31 PM
I was counting starting wins - but not to split hairs i'll give on that point as i glanced at his record and just recalled his less than stellar play at Miami. So please tell me why didnt he start in Washington or Miami if he's as good as your asserting - why didnt he beat out DC here in practice and win the job back in camp?
How does not being given a chance prove anything? My whole point is that if you don't allow competition how are you going to find out who's the best?

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2007, 03:17 PM
why didnt he beat out DC here in practice and win the job back in camp?

I think there are 2 things at play here.

First, I don't think there was ever going to be any competition for the starting job last year. I don't think it mattered which one looked better in TC. I think the Kubiak was given a "free season" to see if he could rehabilitate Carr and the idea was to break him down and build him back up. I think 3/4's of the way through the season (give or take), Kubiak started to think that Carr wasn't salvageable.

Secondly, I think Carr's problem is partially mental from the beating. I think he probably looks like "The Guy" in practice. He's comfortable, he makes the right reads, his footwork is good, he makes the right throws. But when the bullets start flying, I think the damage from the beatings he's taken starts to get in his head and his play starts degrading. That's how I interpreted what Kubiak said a few times about needing Carr to be consistent and make the reads and throws in games that he was making in practice. And I think that's why his play degraded over the course of the season.

And that's why I think Sage didn't win the starting job last pre-season.

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2007, 03:27 PM
1) I don't see how Plummer would set us back 3 years. While we definitly should NOT trade to get him...I don't really care if we have him or not. He's obviously not going to play much longer (maybe ever..retirement!). But are you saying patrick ramsey is better? Maybe plummer won't help us that much..i can take that...but to say he'd set us back..i will disagree. simply because he CAN play 1 more year, he knows the system better than any other player...and can teach a young qb. with that said i'm not advocating to get plummer, i'm just saying he wouldn't set us back 3 years.

2) We better as hell trade carr instead of releasing him. we may not be able to get a 2nd or 3rd round pick like we want...but we sure as hell can get a 2nd day pick for him....we need all the picks we can get...and i don't mean interceptions!

3)Okay...so what if we get Quinn. I'd be fine with it and I'm not going to boo him or anyone on our staff at all. But I don't want to trade up for him...or anybody for that matter...that'd be dumb imo. unless its our 8 and carr straight up...which no team would do unless they rated carr a 1st roundpick. if thats the case i'd take that 1st or just say fine gimme a 2nd. We need all the picks we can get like i said...especially day 1 picks. Every day one pick we have is a starter on this team. If Quinn is available at 8...i think we pick him....but we should not trade up for him by any means.

MATRIX
03-07-2007, 04:33 PM
So its just fans emails and they are reading them out loud?

Probably the same fans who would have us trade Carr, this years first, second, third, and next years first to move up to #1 to draft Peterson.


No, this isn't any emails or calls.

It all started when they(Denver) traded Plummer to Tampa. Plummer said he would retire, but the NFL & Bucs never recived any paper work...because he never did it(now he may if they don't send him here).

He wants back with Kubes, and feels he can contribute to the team. So, Houston and Tampa are trying to work it out. But, somehow, Denver gets that 3rd round pick if it happens. Must be in the fine print, because once Denver got what they did from Tampa. Why would they send Denver anything.

But, it is ALSO being said that Houston(610am-radio) that we can make the deal and also keep Carr(maybe DW/DD and the 3rd?). To allow Carr the right to have the 2yr same system improvement. And well, Kubes is known to be a man of his word. Seems Carr maybe staying after all.


And ofcourse as this clearly points out. Carr has been trying to work at some stuff...and has AJ's indorsement...that may play a huge role in what happens with him.



Secondly, I think Carr's problem is partially mental from the beating. I think he probably looks like "The Guy" in practice. He's comfortable, he makes the right reads, his footwork is good, he makes the right throws. But when the bullets start flying, I think the damage from the beatings he's taken starts to get in his head and his play starts degrading. That's how I interpreted what Kubiak said a few times about needing Carr to be consistent and make the reads and throws in games that he was making in practice. And I think that's why his play degraded over the course of the season.

And that's why I think Sage didn't win the starting job last pre-season.

Plummer maybe the Emergencey clause. INCASE Carr can't overcome the above after say 3-4 games.

U4ikrob
03-07-2007, 05:26 PM
How does not being given a chance prove anything? My whole point is that if you don't allow competition how are you going to find out who's the best?

I understood your point - A-Tex

My point was concern over why Sage hasnt shown his 'goods' so to speak over the last 7 years in his 2 other stops? The "Texans" is his 3rd stop and IMO were An expansion team with little talent. He's had a chance to play and get off the bench in other places with MUCH better players and teams overall, but for whatever reasons couldnt do it. His competition in Miami was Jay Fiedler, AJ Feeley [another rookie] and Gus Ferrote. Its not like any of those guys has mutliple pro-bowls or Super bowl rings.

So what gives.

thunderkyss
03-07-2007, 06:09 PM
This whole thing has been handled with absolutely no class and it is indicative of a loser organization.They could have been truthful from the begining and said "David I'm sorry we are going in a different direction and you are no longer in our plans."But no they have to play and dumb poker game in which they think they hold a winning hand but everyone can see what yopu have.:poker:

So, I'm putting you in the DavidCArr fan group, and not in the HoustonTexans fan group.

thunderkyss
03-07-2007, 06:16 PM
I agree with most of your post, the only thing I disagree with, is the fact that it wasn't in the best interest of the team to dismiss Carr too early.. While it is becoming more and more evident that we won't pull off any kind of trade for Carr, you (the Organization) has to at the very least TRY to get something in return for him...

So, with that said, you have to try to play a hand of poker...

We traded for Moulds very late in the FA period.

The closer we get to June 1, there is going to be a team who realizes they waited too long to address their QB situation. David is going to look like an option. Just like Moulds was for us, we had to trade for him, because he wasn't going to come to us if he was released, he'd have gone to the highest bidder.

Chances are that there is someone who'd love to have David as a back-up QB/possible starter. Washington, NYG, ATlanta(after they get rid of Shaub). They'd be happy to get Carr, but don't want to bid for him.

:elmo:

As it's been stated before. Either he has value, or he doesn't. The only way he'll be released, is if most teams don't care if they get him or not.

thunderkyss
03-07-2007, 06:20 PM
I was counting starting wins - but not to split hairs i'll give on that point as i glanced at his record and just recalled his less than stellar play at Miami. So please tell me why didnt he start in Washington or Miami if he's as good as your asserting - why didnt he beat out DC here in practice and win the job back in camp?

Why didn't Romo win the job from Quincy Carter, Vinny Testeverde, or Drew Bledsoe??

Why didn't Delhomme beat out Billy Joe Tolliver, Jeff Blake, or Aaron Brooks for a starting job??

Why weren't Doug Floutie, or Kurt Warner high QB prospects??

Why is water wet?? the sky blue?? why do women lie??

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2007, 06:25 PM
I don't really see us getting plummer ANY time soon.

1)Didn't Tampa give up their 4th rounder for him? If so then it would seem foolish of them to trade him for our 4th (because its lower) or any pick past that...unless the were REALLY trying to keep all QB's out of oakland.

2)I doubt the would trade him for David Carr...unless they think they could trade Carr for more than they could get for Plummer...I think it'd be hilarious if throughout the offseason they had 3 different new QB's..all Vets.

3)Hasn't Smith or Kubiak said they weren't willing to give up a draft pick for him?....or at least that high of one. I don't want this to turn into a Moulds deal like last year. give up your 5th rounder for one year of service. I think I would have rather WR Marques Hagans or Jeremy Bloom for 4 years than Moulds for 1...and they'd be a lot cheaper. Could you imagine Bloom and Mathis on kick returns?

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2007, 06:27 PM
Why didn't Romo win the job from Quincy Carter, Vinny Testeverde, or Drew Bledsoe??

Why didn't Delhomme beat out Billy Joe Tolliver, Jeff Blake, or Aaron Brooks for a starting job??

Why weren't Doug Floutie, or Kurt Warner high QB prospects??

Why is water wet?? the sky blue?? why do women lie??

And why do I get turned down for dates!?

Carr Bombed
03-07-2007, 06:30 PM
This whole thing has been handled with absolutely no class and it is indicative of a loser organization.They could have been truthful from the begining and said "David I'm sorry we are going in a different direction and you are no longer in our plans."But no they have to play and dumb poker game in which they think they hold a winning hand but everyone can see what yopu have.:poker:

Welcome to the NFL bud. What you want them to do is indicative of what "loser" organizations do. The offseason is all about a poker face, how the hell you think Detroit actually got a draft pick for Joey. This team is faced with a tough job of some how creating trade value for David Carr and I hope they do. Hell with all the Texans gave Carr, they don't have to kiss his ass anymore, maybe the least Carr can return is a draft pick.

NFLforher
03-07-2007, 07:24 PM
6) This whole thing has been handled with absolutely no class and it is indicative of a loser organization.They could have been truthful from the begining and said "David I'm sorry we are going in a different direction and you are no longer in our plans."But no they have to play and dumb poker game in which they think they hold a winning hand but everyone can see what yopu have.:poker:

Well, to be fair, David has been paid millions and millions of dollars and the team is trying to get something in return.

The goal is to better the team and if they can get something for David, why is that wrong?

Who knows what the organization has said to David in private???

NFLforher
03-07-2007, 07:26 PM
I think what the Texans want most is to keep their picks. They may want Plummer, and they may want to trade Carr, but not unless the deal is right, and not if it's going to cost them team development.


As it should be.

QB75
03-07-2007, 09:00 PM
[QUOTE=Ole Miss Texan;618522]I don't really see us getting plummer ANY time soon.

Man, I hope you are right.

:shades:

NFLforher
03-07-2007, 09:56 PM
[QUOTE=Ole Miss Texan;618522]I don't really see us getting plummer ANY time soon.

Man, I hope you are right.

:shades:


Me too.

petedy
03-07-2007, 10:00 PM
So, I'm putting you in the DavidCArr fan group, and not in the HoustonTexans fan group.

THANK YOU! I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE FOR PUTTING ME IN THIS POSITION OF HONOR AND NOW I SHALL ASUME THE SAME POSITION THAT CARR HAS MAINTAINED THE LAST FIVE YEARS ON MY BACK.:wild:

U4ikrob
03-08-2007, 06:09 AM
Why didn't Romo win the job from Quincy Carter, Vinny Testeverde, or Drew Bledsoe??

Why didn't Delhomme beat out Billy Joe Tolliver, Jeff Blake, or Aaron Brooks for a starting job??

Why weren't Doug Floutie, or Kurt Warner high QB prospects??

Why is water wet?? the sky blue?? why do women lie??

Ooooh yea thats a good one - :joker:

Keep reading TK - I'm just curious if Sage is that good how come he couldnt beat out AJ Feeley or Fiedler or Ferrote to get off the bench in Miami? 7 years later and hes going to be a star on a less than stellar Texans team?? Something is not adding up there. The point is the Texans is not his first opportunity - its his third yet he seems to be still on the :wheel: IMO something is either wrong with the way he plays or something else is up as to why he's not able to win a starting job. Logic would dictate something is wrong in the equation as to why other than opportunity - because hes had that before.

Over here at the Texans - Regardless of the 'Carr' situation - Its not like Kubiak, Sherman or Smith has come out with a ringing endorsement of Sage either.

real
03-08-2007, 08:49 AM
Its not like Kubiak, Sherman or Smith has come out with a ringing endorsement of Sage either.

The Texans haven't commented about any individual player concerning the QB position.

thunderkyss
03-08-2007, 09:12 AM
Ooooh yea thats a good one - :joker:

Keep reading TK - I'm just curious if Sage is that good how come he couldnt beat out AJ Feeley or Fiedler or Ferrote to get off the bench in Miami? 7 years later and hes going to be a star on a less than stellar Texans team?? Something is not adding up there. The point is the Texans is not his first opportunity - its his third yet he seems to be still on the :wheel: IMO something is either wrong with the way he plays or something else is up as to why he's not able to win a starting job. Logic would dictate something is wrong in the equation as to why other than opportunity - because hes had that before.

Over here at the Texans - Regardless of the 'Carr' situation - Its not like Kubiak, Sherman or Smith has come out with a ringing endorsement of Sage either.

Kubiak has said all the things you'd like to hear about a starting QB, about Sage... he's a leader, the guys gravitate to him, he can play in this league. Maybe not ringing endorsements, but once Carr is gone, you'll start to hear them.

I believe all the guys you stated that Sage couldn't beat out, came to Miami with pretty good contracts as FA after they proved they could be successful in this league.

Besides, nobody is saying Sage can be a star in this league. We are saying David cannot, so stop paying him. Put Sage in, and we can stop "practicing" when the clock is running. We won't be focusing on our QB's drop, watching his feet, checking his rhythm, hoping he understands how to move around in the pocket, hoping he doesn't lock onto the same reciever at every snap. Hoping he sees that midget covering our TE, or the LB who is out on the wing, covering our TE. We can rest assured if our QB sees the overload blitz coming on the weekside, he can audible to a run to the strong side.

Teams less talented than we are(Tennessee) had winning seasons(8-8) & went to the play-offs(NYJets, KCCheifs) in '07. That should have been us, but since we were looking for the right opportunity to "try out" our 5 year vet in the shotgun, we missed it.

thunderkyss
03-08-2007, 09:18 AM
Ooooh yea thats a good one - :joker:

Keep reading TK - I'm just curious if Sage is that good how come he couldnt beat out AJ Feeley or Fiedler or Ferrote to get off the bench in Miami? 7 years later and hes going to be a star on a less than stellar Texans team??

I forgot to add... Did you read my post?? Do you know who Billy Joe Tolliver & Billy Joe Hebert are?? Delhomme sat behind these guys, and couldn't beat them out for the starting job. The Saints went so far as to get(I believe a trade) Aaron Brooks from another team to groom, and Jeff Blake(FA) to start ahead of Delhomme.

Sage has never played behind a worse line-up(and lost his position) than that.



Never.

Mr teX
03-08-2007, 10:22 AM
I forgot to add... Did you read my post?? Do you know who Billy Joe Tolliver & Billy Joe Hebert are?? Delhomme sat behind these guys, and couldn't beat them out for the starting job. The Saints went so far as to get(I believe a trade) Aaron Brooks from another team to groom, and Jeff Blake(FA) to start ahead of Delhomme.

Sage has never played behind a worse line-up(and lost his position) than that.



Never.


God those names take me back....

TwinSisters
03-08-2007, 10:41 AM
Do you know who Billy Joe Tolliver & Billy Joe Hebert are?? Delhomme sat behind these guys, and couldn't beat them out for the starting job.

What are you talking about Billy Joe was the starting QB for the Shreveport Pirates. That's talent.

Billy Jack knows.

Lucky
03-08-2007, 11:27 AM
Do you know who Billy Joe Tolliver & Billy Joe Hebert are??
It was Bobby Joe Hebert. And he usually went by Bobby Hebert.

aj.
03-08-2007, 11:38 AM
I forgot to add... Did you read my post?? Do you know who Billy Joe Tolliver & Billy Joe Hebert are?? Delhomme sat behind these guys, and couldn't beat them out for the starting job. The Saints went so far as to get(I believe a trade) Aaron Brooks from another team to groom, and Jeff Blake(FA) to start ahead of Delhomme.


It was Bobby Joe Hebert. And he usually went by Bobby Hebert.

You guys are getting your Billy Joe's and Bobby Joe's mixed up.

Billy Joe Hobert and Billy Joe Tolliver were with the Saints in '99 (as was Delhomme). Delhomme was an undrafted rookie that year and wasn't going to play ahead of anyone on any NFL roster. That was Ditka's crown jewel 3-13 season after he traded away his entire draft to get Ricky.

Bobby Hebert (pronounced "A-bear" for those not from Louisiana or SE Tex) retired after the '96 season. He last played with the Saints in '92.

U4ikrob
03-08-2007, 01:09 PM
Kubiak has said all the things you'd like to hear about a starting QB, about Sage... he's a leader, the guys gravitate to him, he can play in this league. Maybe not ringing endorsements, but once Carr is gone, you'll start to hear them.

I believe all the guys you stated that Sage couldn't beat out, came to Miami with pretty good contracts as FA after they proved they could be successful in this league.

Feeley was a rookie and got the job over Sage in Miami after being in the league 3 years. [1 with Redskins - 2 with Miami]


Besides, nobody is saying Sage can be a star in this league.


Better look again around this water cooler alot of people here are saying it.


We are saying David cannot, so stop paying him. Put Sage in, and we can stop "practicing" when the clock is running. We won't be focusing on our QB's drop, watching his feet, checking his rhythm, hoping he understands how to move around in the pocket, hoping he doesn't lock onto the same reciever at every snap. Hoping he sees that midget covering our TE, or the LB who is out on the wing, covering our TE. We can rest assured if our QB sees the overload blitz coming on the weekside, he can audible to a run to the strong side.


I understand DC's weaknesses for sure - ive watched him for 5 years too. Sage on the other hand IMO hasnt shown all the things your giving him credit for in your example much less the one thing Kubiak wants - consistency. I have heard the guys gravitate to him endorsement of Carr before too. And if guys in the league thought so much of Sage, how come he didnt get more PT before now is my question. In Sage's PT time with the Texans everyone seems to focus on his game against the Titans and the TD's or the one drive at the end of the Dallas game, yet dont seem to say much about his game time against Jax were he did basically nada for 2 quarters.


Teams less talented than we are(Tennessee) had winning seasons(8-8) & went to the play-offs(NYJets, KCCheifs) in '07. That should have been us, but since we were looking for the right opportunity to "try out" our 5 year vet in the shotgun, we missed it.

I'm all for the team getting better and I'm certainly not convinced DC is the man atm, but Sage hasnt shown himself to be the 'Leader' your talking about to me. I certainly havent heard all of Kubes pressers on Sage, but I did hear him and Smith talk about David's play for sure along with everyone else.

Yep read the post - Tolliver and Hebert - yep that takes me back a few years for sure. My point is Sage not winning the job over Feeley in Miami or Ferrote is what gives me pause about him as the starter. I think Sage is ok - just havent seen much from him to give me confidence in his play overall - Kind of like a Tony Banks when he was here, but a little different. Not trying to be nit picky or homerific, but ive been underwhelmed by both Sage and David this past year. Understand?

aj.
03-08-2007, 05:00 PM
Yep read the post - Tolliver and Hebert - yep that takes me back a few years for sure.

Tolliver and Hebert played together one season, 1993, in Atlanta.

Tolliver and Hobert played together two seasons, 1998-99, in New Orleans.

Hebert and Hobert never played together.

Where did they bury the survivors?