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View Full Version : Do you want DC to be the starting QB next season?


gtexan02
02-28-2007, 08:59 PM
Don't make this complicated. Just a simple yes or no will do. I'm trying to guage support for something. This shouldn't be a debate, or hypothetical. Just yes or no.

thunderkyss
02-28-2007, 09:00 PM
No.

gtexan02
02-28-2007, 09:00 PM
I was typing in the choices, hit refresh and it shoudl work

Navy_Chris
02-28-2007, 09:01 PM
I was typing in the choices, hit refresh and it shoudl work

There's a couple NFL Europe teams looking for a solid #2 guy.

TexansLucky13
02-28-2007, 09:02 PM
Yes.

gtexan02
02-28-2007, 09:07 PM
Weird. THe board says that 5 people have viewed this thread,yet 11 people have voted :crazy:

Vinny
02-28-2007, 09:08 PM
Weird. THe board says that 5 people have viewed this thread,yet 11 people have voted :crazy:It doesn't update that counter in real time.....helps keep the server speed fast.

gtexan02
02-28-2007, 09:11 PM
Oh i see

BleedTheBurntOrange
02-28-2007, 09:12 PM
Yes if we dont get Brady Quinn.

Mr. White
02-28-2007, 09:13 PM
Not no, but HELL NO!

Texans34Life
02-28-2007, 09:14 PM
I wish there was a "Hell F%$^#! No" option.

Heath Shuler
02-28-2007, 10:19 PM
Nope.

But wait a little while and the California Carr Cult will stop by with some excuses, alibis, blame shifting and derogatory remarks about possible replacements.

Grid
02-28-2007, 10:29 PM
No..ive already stated my position in previous threads. Its nothing against David.. we just need to go in a different direction to shake this air of "loser" that is hanging over the team as a whole.

Trap_Star
02-28-2007, 10:32 PM
No.

gtexan02
02-28-2007, 10:40 PM
65% say no. Frankly I'm a bit surprised. I thought it'd be more like 80% no 20% yes

Trap_Star
02-28-2007, 10:42 PM
65% say no. Frankly I'm a bit surprised. I thought it'd be more like 80% no 20% yes

Just wait till the rest of us get online tomorrow morning...

RTP2110
02-28-2007, 10:42 PM
I like David Carr the person. David Carr the quarterback, not so much.

gtexan02
02-28-2007, 10:43 PM
I don't know David Carr the person

kiwitexansfan
02-28-2007, 10:43 PM
Yes.

The only alternative I would be happy with is Quinn learning behind Sage.

Vinny
02-28-2007, 10:45 PM
I don't know David Carr the personjust assume he is a lot like his brother hulky

powerfuldragon
02-28-2007, 11:24 PM
i'm surprised that it's not more lopsided.

HoustonFrog
02-28-2007, 11:28 PM
Please NO!

Nighthawk
02-28-2007, 11:34 PM
Ridiculous question.

No one in his/her right mind would want a sixth year of David Carr.


HEY! SIX FREAKING YEARS? ARE YOU KIDDING?

2BCF
03-01-2007, 01:11 AM
Guess how I voted. No hanging chad here!

newport texan
03-01-2007, 02:12 AM
i would rather have no qb..direct snap to the tailback on every play

mannyo123
03-01-2007, 02:20 AM
Yes

Topher
03-01-2007, 02:30 AM
NO !

HJam72
03-01-2007, 03:35 AM
OK, how many of you people are Colts fans? :)

Stros5Texans80
03-01-2007, 04:21 AM
OK, how many of you people are Colts fans? :)

That's what I am wondering. :tease:
I was expecting along the lines of at least 85/15 NO! Guess Carr still has some fans. :ok:

As for me, no, but don't tell him anything. :secret:

Honoring Earl 34
03-01-2007, 06:03 AM
No way .

MINNEAPOLIS (Feb. 28, 2007) -- In a long-expected move, the Minnesota Vikings released quarterback Brad Johnson and made the 15-year veteran an unrestricted free agent.

Tarvaris Jackson, who started the final two games of last season as a rookie, and Brooks Bollinger are the only quarterbacks remaining on the roster.

HoustonFrog
03-01-2007, 06:43 AM
So 2 players say it is time to make a move, etc and people still think it is a good idea to keep him?OK..lol

HoustonFan
03-01-2007, 06:48 AM
Yes. Who else is available othern than Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummer? Not too sure about either of these guys.

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 06:48 AM
So 2 players say it is time to make a move, etc and people still think it is a good idea to keep him?OK..lol

Don't forget that the coach took the ball out of his hands for our last three wins.

& our GM said we are not pleased with what we got from our QB in '06.

HoustonFrog
03-01-2007, 06:52 AM
Don't forget that the coach took the ball out of his hands for our last three wins.

& our GM said we are not pleased with what we got from our QB in '06.

EXACTLY TK. I'll just report what I put in another thread....

Forget what they are looking for as a replacement for a second.....you have D'Rob saying "It's time.......I'm not saying he can't be a great QB with another team. But here has been here 5 years and the best we have been able to do is 7-9." You also have Moulds saying, "the quarterback has to show he can carry (the team.)" It is amazing that they can express things alot of people here have been saying for a while yet people want to keep him. Add to that the fact that management has already shown a willingness to let him go and many fans are ready and you have a situation where it is imperative that he be let go in a trade or some type of deal. He's lost fans, teammates and a team's managements faith. It iS time.

TheOgre
03-01-2007, 07:08 AM
I'm just surprised there are still 40% of us that want Carr back. I actually think it is better for David to get a clean slate with a new team. It just isn't a good situation for him here any more.

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 07:18 AM
I'd love to hear the positives for bringing him back. What does he bring to the field that we can't get out of Sage.. BVP.. hell Quinton Porter for that matter.

Malloy
03-01-2007, 07:37 AM
EXACTLY TK. I'll just report what I put in another thread....

Forget what they are looking for as a replacement for a second.....you have D'Rob saying "It's time.......I'm not saying he can't be a great QB with another team. But here has been here 5 years and the best we have been able to do is 7-9." You also have Moulds saying, "the quarterback has to show he can carry (the team.)" It is amazing that they can express things alot of people here have been saying for a while yet people want to keep him. Add to that the fact that management has already shown a willingness to let him go and many fans are ready and you have a situation where it is imperative that he be let go in a trade or some type of deal. He's lost fans, teammates and a team's managements faith. It iS time.

Just curious, are these actual quotes or are you paraphrasing?

2BCF
03-01-2007, 08:36 AM
Don't forget that the coach took the ball out of his hands for our last three wins.

& our GM said we are not pleased with what we got from our QB in '06.

And that will be the situation for all of '07 if we were to keep DC.
A multi-million dollar QB with his hands tied to keep him from hurting his team's chances of winning.

Maddict5
03-01-2007, 08:42 AM
Yes. Who else is available othern than Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummer? Not too sure about either of these guys.

this is how i feel..i dont really want to keep carr but given whats out there- i dont see a big improvement so i said yes

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 08:45 AM
this is how i feel..i dont really want to keep carr but given whats out there- i dont see a big improvement so i said yes

I'm SHOCKED!!! Carr has 38 supporters out there in the greater Houston area?!?!

Say Whaaaaaaat?!

Texans_Chick
03-01-2007, 08:49 AM
I want whatever is best for the Texans.

I'm not someone who wants to ditch DC at any cost. For me, the answer depends on the options. I don't want to break the bank for Plummer or give away too much value to get him.

And I would like for there to be a legit competition for QB.

Vinny
03-01-2007, 08:51 AM
I'm SHOCKED!!! Carr has 38 supporters out there in the greater Houston area?!?!

Say Whaaaaaaat?!
um, this is the internet dood....you don't have to have a 281 or 713 to post here

real
03-01-2007, 08:53 AM
Nope.

But wait a little while and the California Carr Cult will stop by with some excuses, alibis, blame shifting and derogatory remarks about possible replacements.

LMAO!

2BCF
03-01-2007, 08:54 AM
don't forget to factor in that Carr's friends & family are on here bailing water from a sinking ship.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2007, 08:55 AM
Gosh...I think we should get Brad Johnson. He's totally awesome.

:rolleyes: :joker: :tease:

dirty steve
03-01-2007, 08:55 AM
i dont understand the need to create a thread when alot of us know how everybody else feels. i dont support DC coming back, but i am not going to start ANOTHER thread on the subject. you are just going to have the same people saying the same thing on the same subject. you could just sift through the other threads about DC to find the same amount of disdain. just beating a dead horse if you ask me.

i agree with chick, i'll support whatever the football people think is best for the football team.

real
03-01-2007, 08:57 AM
The only people that you will find want David Carr to start are a select few on this message board. If this poll was given to the general public, it wouldn't even be as close as it is now.

Yeah, my answer is no.

srstex
03-01-2007, 08:57 AM
Of course I voted yes, due to the fact that there is no-one available that comes close to Carr's numbers, so if you want a trade it will be a trade DOWN, and what's the point in that? Unrelated-Wiegert & Moulds were cut, I think it's a start, and Payne on D, that's been a long time coming IMO. I still see too much focus on Carr, Evans burned a CB twice in the first quarter for over 160 yards, why not pick on the CB that doesn't cover or learn, or the line that let VY run for a 39 yard TD in OT, or what was the 30th ranked defense in the NFL. We need to focus on the biggest problem first, our defense, not looking for the easiest scape goat. This thread sounds like a broken record, Get rid of Carr, anyone but Carr !, that way ya'll get what you want, and when it fails ya'll can say " Their the coaches they should have known". Back your QB he is the best avaiable. 2 cents-Manning was on the Colts that won the SB-Does that make him the best QB in the NFL this year? And Rex Grossman was on the Bears that won the National conference but lost in the SB, does that make him the second best QB in the NFL?

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 08:58 AM
um, this is the internet dood....you don't have to have a 281 or 713 to post here

wait..did i forget to note that my comment was one of sarcasm?

dirty steve
03-01-2007, 08:58 AM
Of course I voted yes, due to the fact that there is no-one available that comes close to Carr's numbers, so if you want a trade it will be a trade DOWN, and what's the point in that? Unrelated-Wiegert & Moulds were cut, I think it's a start, and Payne on D, that's been a long time coming IMO. I still see too much focus on Carr, Evans burned a CB twice in the first quarter for over 160 yards, why not pick on the CB that doesn't cover or learn, or the line that let VY run for a 39 yard TD in OT, or what was the 30th ranked defense in the NFL. We need to focus on the biggest problem first, our defense, not looking for the easiest scape goat. This thread sounds like a broken record, Get rid of Carr, anyone but Carr !, that way ya'll get what you want, and when it fails ya'll can say " Their the coaches they should have known". Back your QB he is the best avaiable. 2 cents-Manning was on the Colts that won the SB-Does that make him the best QB in the NFL this year? And Rex Grossman was on the Bears that won the National conference but lost in the SB, does that make him the second best QB in the NFL?
thank you--

J-Storm
03-01-2007, 08:59 AM
this is how i feel..i dont really want to keep carr but given whats out there- i dont see a big improvement so i said yes

I'm in the same boat here. I would rather have DC here with Sage and let them both coach up someone like Kolb for a full season, gives us time to help the O-Line gel a lil' more and voila - we don't end up with David Carr V2...

real
03-01-2007, 09:01 AM
I'm in the same boat here. I would rather have DC here with Sage and let them both coach up someone like Kolb for a full season, gives us time to help the O-Line gel a lil' more and voila - we don't end up with David Carr V2...

LMAO!

Wait a sec....Let me catch my breath.....


You want David Carr to "coach someone up"......?!?!?!?!?!....


BWAAAAAHAAAAAA!!!!

The Pencil Neck
03-01-2007, 09:02 AM
No.

I've said this before, I think there are a lot of players out there that could give us better and more consistent performance. Some people are asking "but who do we replace him with?" and I don't think that's going to be as hard as they think. Right now, we have to take the air out of the ball to win, we can take the air out of the ball with Owen Daniels as the QB.

Whoever is comes to camp, the QB position should be open to competition just like any other position. And the QB should be held accountable for his performance during the season. If he starts stinking it up, he should be benched and someone else stuck in there. I can't think of very many other QB's who could put so many bad games together and still keep their job as Carr has the past couple of years.

Vinny
03-01-2007, 09:07 AM
Some people are asking "but who do we replace him with?" Carr had 1 TD pass that mattered and 2 total in the last ten games last season. Is that really all that hard to replace?

not directed at you PN, but I used your quote.

2BCF
03-01-2007, 09:08 AM
No.

I've said this before, I think there are a lot of players out there that could give us better and more consistent performance. Some people are asking "but who do we replace him with?" and I don't think that's going to be as hard as they think. Right now, we have to take the air out of the ball to win, we can take the air out of the ball with Owen Daniels as the QB.

Whoever is comes to camp, the QB position should be open to competition just like any other position. And the QB should be held accountable for his performance during the season. If he starts stinking it up, he should be benched and someone else stuck in there. I can't think of very many other QB's who could put so many bad games together and still keep their job as Carr has the past couple of years.

I totally agree. It's beyond comprehension.

dirty steve
03-01-2007, 09:08 AM
Carr had 1 TD pass that mattered and 2 total in the last ten games last season. Is that really all that hard to replace?
that's what got me too. no matter your surrounding cast, you have to find a way to surpass those lofty numbers. that and the new england, nashville game, and the oakland game. it's beyond the point of imagining a situation where it would be comfortable for management and the fans to a lesser extent (i know, you cant worry about what the fans say) for DC to come back after you come out and say "DC is our starter...until we find a palatable offer." you get to a point where losses have to be cut, and you cant pick and choose what you will get back.

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 09:10 AM
that's what got me too. no matter your surrounding cast, you have to find a way to surpass those lofty numbers. that and the new england, nashville game, and the oakland game.

People act like just because DC led the league with a 68.3% completion pct. last season that he's getting better. Half of those throws were screens that went for 2 yards to Owen Daniels....on 3RD and ***** 8!!!!

Second Honeymoon
03-01-2007, 09:12 AM
the Carr supporters are either from California, family members, or people who like him because he is Christian and/or cute. Obviously anyone with any football knowledge at all knows that the guy is a scrub. I just don't know what anyone has EVER seen that would make them believe in him.

Just because he is a good dad and goes to church DOES NOT make him a good candidate for a starting QB. He has crap work ethic, crap leadership, crap intangibles, crap intelligence, crap dedication, and he is a crappy QB

crap

J-Storm
03-01-2007, 09:12 AM
LMAO!

Wait a sec....Let me catch my breath.....


You want David Carr to "coach someone up"......?!?!?!?!?!....


BWAAAAAHAAAAAA!!!!

Ummm you obv didn't see the part where I had Sage's name in there as well. And with the options out on the market, I don't see why we should go that route. I also never stated that DC should be the walk up starter. JMO...

HuttoKarl
03-01-2007, 09:15 AM
Carr had 1 TD pass that mattered and 2 total in the last ten games last season. Is that really all that hard to replace?

not directed at you PN, but I used your quote.

What gets me is that Jake Plummer went how many games without throwing a TD before he got benched for a rookie? How about Brad Johnson's game log? Trent Green?

I don't see how any of them are any sort of improvement.

Vinny
03-01-2007, 09:18 AM
What gets me is that Jake Plummer went how many games without throwing a TD before he got benched for a rookie? How about Brad Johnson's game log? Trent Green?

I don't see how any of them are any sort of improvement.Plummer had 11 when benched (Carr's season total). Cutler was coming in eventually anyway...it's not like you take a QB with the first pick and let him sit long. Brad Johnson is what? 83 years old? They drafted a QB in the 2nd round of the last draft too. Trent Green was injured. QB's that can only throw 1 TD pass over ten games get replaced in the NFL. I know you are mad at losing this production...but you gotta bite that bullet.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2007, 09:25 AM
Plummer had 11 when benched (Carr's season total). Cutler was coming in eventually anyway...it's not like you take a QB with the first pick and let him sit long. Brad Johnson is what? 83 years old? They drafted a QB in the 2nd round of the last draft too. Trent Green was injured. QB's that can only throw 1 TD pass over ten games get replaced in the NFL. I know you are mad at losing this production...but you gotta bite that bullet.

And in half a season, Jake out INT'd David by one. Damn. I want that production in a bad way. You convinced me.

real
03-01-2007, 09:26 AM
And in half a season, Jake out INT'd David by one. Damn. I want that production in a bad way. You convinced me.

What is the big deal about finding a replacement QB...

The Games we won, we limited his throws anyway...


Anybody can come in and hand the ball off...

Vinny
03-01-2007, 09:27 AM
And in half a season, Jake out INT'd David by one. Damn. I want that production in a bad way. You convinced me.
Hell of an argument there....welcome to the forums. :yes:

Second Honeymoon
03-01-2007, 09:28 AM
What gets me is that Jake Plummer went how many games without throwing a TD before he got benched for a rookie? How about Brad Johnson's game log? Trent Green?

I don't see how any of them are any sort of improvement.

The Broncs were like 7-2, benched Plummer, and then missed the playoffs....

What is your point? Just because the Broncos are stupid don't use that as a reason to justify sticking by the garbage that is David Carr.

Honoring Earl 34
03-01-2007, 09:30 AM
Hell of an argument there....welcome to the forums. :yes:

I think it's not about who replaces Carr ... it's about dollars / production ratio .

Why pay Carr 7 million for 11 tds when you can pay Sage 1.5 million for 11 tds .

I bet Van Pelt can throw 7 tds for 350,000 .

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 09:30 AM
I think it's not about who replaces Carr ... it's about dollars / production ratio .

Why pay Carr 7 million for 11 tds when you can pay sage 1.5 million for 11 tds .

Very well put. You deserve a raise.

Honoring Earl 34
03-01-2007, 09:33 AM
Very well put. You deserve a raise.

Vinny's OK with me as long as I have a good post every once in a while .

dirty steve
03-01-2007, 09:33 AM
People act like just because DC led the league with a 68.3% completion pct. last season that he's getting better. Half of those throws were screens that went for 2 yards to Owen Daniels....on 3RD and ***** 8!!!!when did i bring up any evidence that i would support carr coming back? the completion percentage/QB rating is a much maligned statistic and really didnt show how Carr competed this year. i am really not sure where you are trying to go with this.

so if not Plummer, then who? Garcia? Huard was reupped.

srstex
03-01-2007, 09:35 AM
LMAO!

Wait a sec....Let me catch my breath.....


You want David Carr to "coach someone up"......?!?!?!?!?!....


BWAAAAAHAAAAAA!!!!

You do realize that Kubiak did this right? He was the Broncos pick, and then Elway told the Colts trade me or I play baseball, and Kubiak has been on the sideline eversince.

dirty steve
03-01-2007, 09:37 AM
You do realize that Kubiak did this right? He was the Broncos pick, and then Elway told the Colts trade me or I play baseball, and Kubiak has been on the sideline eversince.
in all fairness Kubes wasnt on the Broncos sidelines the whole time, but I see what you are trying to say.

srstex
03-01-2007, 09:43 AM
What is the big deal about finding a replacement QB...

The Games we won, we limited his throws anyway...


Anybody can come in and hand the ball off...

And how many Super Bowl Rings does Barry Sanders have ? That's right NONE, your reasoning is shaky at best. This also shows that a GREAT running back can't do it alone either, just like a QB, he needs a front line and a good defense. Thanks for making my arguement for me.

Honoring Earl 34
03-01-2007, 09:46 AM
And how many Super Bowl Rings does Barry Sanders have ? That's right NONE, your reasoning is shaky at best. This also shows that a GREAT running back can't do it alone either, just like a QB, he needs a front line and a good defense. Thanks for making my arguement for me.

Barry Sanders is a Hall of Famer none the less .

Don't compare HOF players to Carr it does'nt translate .

Waltman
03-01-2007, 09:47 AM
no.:secret:

real
03-01-2007, 09:47 AM
You do realize that Kubiak did this right? He was the Broncos pick, and then Elway told the Colts trade me or I play baseball, and Kubiak has been on the sideline eversince.

What does that have to do with anything ??? LOL



Some of you guys just tickle me....

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 09:48 AM
when did i bring up any evidence that i would support carr coming back? the completion percentage/QB rating is a much maligned statistic and really didnt show how Carr competed this year. i am really not sure where you are trying to go with this.

so if not Plummer, then who? Garcia? Huard was reupped.

dude, pull it back a little.

just making a statement. perhaps you would feel better if I had hit REPLY instead.

real
03-01-2007, 09:48 AM
And how many Super Bowl Rings does Barry Sanders have ? That's right NONE, your reasoning is shaky at best. This also shows that a GREAT running back can't do it alone either, just like a QB, he needs a front line and a good defense. Thanks for making my arguement for me.

:crazy:

The argument is that we can't find another QB "better" or "as good" as Carr...

What does a RB carrying the load have to do with this topic ? People are saying we can't find someone to replace Carr, and all I said is that Carr was a hand-off machine late in the season...We can't find someone to hand the ball of a majority of the time and throw 11 touchdowns ?

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 11:03 AM
Ummm you obv didn't see the part where I had Sage's name in there as well. And with the options out on the market, I don't see why we should go that route. I also never stated that DC should be the walk up starter. JMO...

We save $5million to dump David. that, and keeping him from influencing any QB in a Texans uniform is reason enough to keep his name out of that scenario.

And in half a season, Jake out INT'd David by one. Damn. I want that production in a bad way. You convinced me.

1 more INT does not equal 1 less TD. Think of an INT as an unexpected punt unless it is returned for 6.

That's why you'll see QBs on winning teams who throw more INts than David... because they also throw more TDs to go with them.

real
03-01-2007, 11:07 AM
That's why you'll see QBs on winning teams who throw more INts than David... because they also throw more TDs to go with them.


Signed,

Brett Favre

Cheroqui
03-01-2007, 11:49 AM
Nah. What's the return policy on this item? 7days or 30? :bubble:

HuttoKarl
03-01-2007, 11:51 AM
We save $5million to dump David. that, and keeping him from influencing any QB in a Texans uniform is reason enough to keep his name out of that scenario.



1 more INT does not equal 1 less TD. Think of an INT as an unexpected punt unless it is returned for 6.

That's why you'll see QBs on winning teams who throw more INts than David... because they also throw more TDs to go with them.

1 more INT is another squandered chance at 6. Many INT's happen in areas that aren't automatic 6 points, but surefire 3. Jake was on pace to throw 21 picks for the season. He's not a brilliant decision maker. If he's our QB (ugh...just vomited in my mouth a little right there) next season than I'll be a Plummer fan while I have to, but I'm not going to act like he's a winner just because his team was good.

real
03-01-2007, 11:54 AM
1 more INT is another squandered chance at 6. Many INT's happen in areas that aren't automatic 6 points, but surefire 3. Jake was on pace to throw 21 picks for the season. He's not a brilliant decision maker. If he's our QB (ugh...just vomited in my mouth a little right there) next season than I'll be a Plummer fan while I have to, but I'm not going to act like he's a winner just because his team was good.

If you are using ints. as a gauge then I guess Brett Favre wouldn't be an adequate replacement either...

Texan_Bill
03-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Do YOU want Carr to start here in Houston next season?
NO....

I want someone to EARN the starting job. If that is Carr, so be it, but I want REAL competition and not just handed to somebody.

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 11:58 AM
Do YOU want Carr to start here in Houston next season?
NO....

I want someone to EARN the starting job. If that is Carr, so be it, but I want REAL competition and not just handed to somebody.

The Houston Texans will be holding open tryouts for the following positions:

QB
WR
OT
OG
C
DE
DT
OLB
FS
SS
CB
K
P

HuttoKarl
03-01-2007, 12:00 PM
If you are using ints. as a gauge then I guess Brett Favre wouldn't be an adequate replacement either...


At this point in his career, I wouldn't want Favre either. The guy should have retired before last season, if not the year before. I don't want him. I don't want Elway. I don't want Aikman, Montana or Steve Young either.

Bart Starr, on the other hand...no...nevermind. Don't want him either.

real
03-01-2007, 12:02 PM
At this point in his career, I wouldn't want Favre either. The guy should have retired before last season, if not the year before. I don't want him. I don't want Elway. I don't want Aikman, Montana or Steve Young either.

Bart Starr, on the other hand...no...nevermind. Don't want him either.

I'm not talking about this point in his career...


All through his tenure in the NFL he's been an interception machine...

One of my favorite quotes from him was "I can go from being a QB, to a Safety in 3.5 second"


And by the way, the fact that you wouldn't want him at this point in his career over Carr makes me question your motives...

Texan_Bill
03-01-2007, 12:03 PM
The Houston Texans will be holding open tryouts for the following positions:

QB
WR
OT
OG
C
DE
DT
OLB
FS
SS
CB
K
P

You forgot the cheerleaders.... http://www.onlineregistrationcenter.com/register.asp?m=143&c=116

powerfuldragon
03-01-2007, 12:03 PM
wow. the more votes this gets, the closer it gets to 50:50. The radio makes it sound like everyone in houston wants david gone.

Texan_Bill
03-01-2007, 12:03 PM
At this point in his career, I wouldn't want Favre either. The guy should have retired before last season, if not the year before. I don't want him. I don't want Elway. I don't want Aikman, Montana or Steve Young either.

Bart Starr, on the other hand...no...nevermind. Don't want him either.

Are you okay with George Blanda??

real
03-01-2007, 12:06 PM
wow. the more votes this gets, the closer it gets to 50:50. The radio makes it sound like everyone in houston wants david gone.

IMO, the message board doesn't accurately depict how most casual fans in Houston feel about Carr...

In fact I don't know a SINGLE person outside of this message board that wants to keep Carr...

TheRealX9
03-01-2007, 12:09 PM
100% behind Carr

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 12:11 PM
100% behind Carr

You're one of the few. So, does that mean that when Carr gets traded you're going to be a fan of Oakland/Cleveland/Minnesota? Follow your boy wherever he goes.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2007, 12:13 PM
I'm not talking about this point in his career...


All through his tenure in the NFL he's been an interception machine...

One of my favorite quotes from him was "I can go from being a QB, to a Safety in 3.5 second"


And by the way, the fact that you wouldn't want him at this point in his career over Carr makes me question your motives...

I guess I'm not living in the past. Favre is ancient. What he WAS doesn't matter now.

Blanda....hmmm....what's his asking price?

TheRealX9
03-01-2007, 12:16 PM
You're one of the few. So, does that mean that when Carr gets traded you're going to be a fan of Oakland/Cleveland/Minnesota? Follow your boy wherever he goes.
nah, i'll be sad, but ill still be a texans fan though. but people considering Sage Rosenfels? that deserves a LOL. I say keep Carr for one more season

Texan_Bill
03-01-2007, 12:27 PM
Blanda....hmmm....what's his asking price?


Not sure, but it would solve the Kris Brown issue too. So, he is a two for one deal..

ib4texans
03-01-2007, 12:29 PM
Plummer had 11 when benched (Carr's season total). Cutler was coming in eventually anyway...it's not like you take a QB with the first pick and let him sit long. Brad Johnson is what? 83 years old? They drafted a QB in the 2nd round of the last draft too. Trent Green was injured. QB's that can only throw 1 TD pass over ten games get replaced in the NFL. I know you are mad at losing this production...but you gotta bite that bullet.




If we had Jay Cutler waiting on the bench I'd be happy. We have Sage and Bradlee Van Pelt. Yeah what the heck start Sage, we need another top ten draft.

I'm not inferring that you want Sage Vinny, I was just referencing your post to show our lack of any real talent in our QB position from starter on down.

WWJD
03-01-2007, 12:50 PM
I voted no.

Time to move in another direction with a new QB.

Vinny
03-01-2007, 12:52 PM
If we had Jay Cutler waiting on the bench I'd be happy. We have Sage and Bradlee Van Pelt. Yeah what the heck start Sage, we need another top ten draft.

I'm not inferring that you want Sage Vinny, I was just referencing your post to show our lack of any real talent in our QB position from starter on down.
so you are saying that its tough to replace a QB that throws two TD's in the last 10 games of the season, and one was in a garbage time blowout (Jets game)? I mean, do you really think that Sage or Jake would do worse? Why keep paying franchise money for this when you could use that money for a lineman or something.

HJam72
03-01-2007, 12:54 PM
so you are saying that its tough to replace a QB that throws two TD's in the last 10 games of the season, and one was in a garbage time blowout?

Yeah!!! Who else we gonna get to do that? Sheesh. :winky:

ib4texans
03-01-2007, 12:59 PM
so you are saying that its tough to replace a QB that throws two TD's in the last 10 games of the season, and one was in a garbage time blowout (Jets game)? I mean, do you really think that Sage or Jake would do worse?



No, I don't think that they could do worse. I'm just not convinced that they will be any better, and at what cost.

As I stated if we had Cutler, I could yank the chain on DC quite easily.

I have actually warmed to the idea of Brady Quinn.

Vinny
03-01-2007, 01:03 PM
No, I don't think that they could do worse. I'm just not convinced that they will be any better, and at what cost.

As I stated if we had Cutler, I could yank the chain on DC quite easily.

I have actually warmed to the idea of Brady Quinn.
at what cost? Right now the cost is franchise money in a league with a salary cap....if your franchise QB is slamming the cap hard and he plays like a journeyman, the cost is that you will probably always be mediocre. If you pay a journeyman like a journeyman, well...the cost is right and you can use that money for another top player. Right now we are paying for beachfront property but living in the ghetto.

Second Honeymoon
03-01-2007, 01:05 PM
at what cost? Right now the cost is franchise money in a league with a salary cap....if your franchise QB is slamming the cap hard and he plays like a journeyman, the cost is that you will probably always be mediocre. If you pay a journeyman like a journeyman, well...the cost is right. Right now we are paying for beachfront property but living in the ghetto.

for some reason these guys just cant understand that....they think that just because someone was drafted #1 five years ago, that he must be good.

they just blame it on everyone and anything else but the real root of the problem.

continue to blame the rest of the team and we will continue to be a laughing stock of a franchise

HJam72
03-01-2007, 01:06 PM
It's a beach ghetto. :ok:

I just knew I was going to come on this thread and see that Vinny was defending Carr, lol. :bubble:

ib4texans
03-01-2007, 01:07 PM
at what cost? Right now the cost is franchise money in a league with a salary cap....if your franchise QB is slamming the cap hard and he plays like a journeyman, the cost is that you will probably always be mediocre. If you pay a journeyman like a journeyman, well...the cost is right and you can use that money for another top player. Right now we are paying for beachfront property but living in the ghetto.


Who do we get then? Plummer? He's not coming here for a one year deal, he wants to hit the gravy train and ride it into retirement.

We're going to be paying that money to Carr regardless of where he's at. ANyone we bring in is going to cost us more. Who do you want?

Mr teX
03-01-2007, 01:20 PM
I don't know if anyone can say that they "want" DC to start next year after watching him the last 2 years, unless they are blinded by their homerism.

The question should be could you "tolerate" DC starting next year, in which case i can only b/c i have metally prepared myself for such a possiblity.

real
03-01-2007, 01:22 PM
Who do we get then? Plummer? He's not coming here for a one year deal, he wants to hit the gravy train and ride it into retirement.

We're going to be paying that money to Carr regardless of where he's at. ANyone we bring in is going to cost us more. Who do you want?

I think all we'd have to pay Carr is bonus money...

ib4texans
03-01-2007, 01:23 PM
I don't know if anyone can say that they "want" DC to start next year after watching him the last 2 years, unless they are blinded by their homerism.

The question should be could you "tolerate" DC starting next year, in which case i can only b/c i have metally prepared myself for such a possiblity.


What he said !

ib4texans
03-01-2007, 01:25 PM
I think all we'd have to pay Carr is bonus money...




So are you inferring that we can get Jake Plummer and dump off David and pay the same money that we would just keeping David?

real
03-01-2007, 01:30 PM
So are you inferring that we can get Jake Plummer and dump off David and pay the same money that we would just keeping David?

No....I don't know much about the salary implications...I'm learning though...

What I'm saying is, if we don't trade David, we should just Cut him....

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 01:32 PM
wow. the more votes this gets, the closer it gets to 50:50. The radio makes it sound like everyone in houston wants david gone.

Most of the Yes votes are from people living on the west coast.... look at their location, most of them are blank.

They don't care about the Texans as much as they care for David Carr. Once Carr is gone, they'll be gone too.

ib4texans
03-01-2007, 01:33 PM
No....I don't know much about the salary implications...I'm learning though...

What I'm saying is, if we don't trade David, we should just Cut him....


We still have to pay him though, and then anybody that we do want sign has more leverage for a higher payday. You can't possibly be banking on Sage as the starter? He hasn't convinced me he can play a whole game much less a whole season.

texans83
03-01-2007, 01:38 PM
We still have to pay him though, and then anybody that we do want sign has more leverage for a higher payday. You can't possibly be banking on Sage as the starter? He hasn't convinced me he can play a whole game much less a whole season.

I agree once again that is why he is the back up

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 01:42 PM
So are you inferring that we can get Jake Plummer and dump off David and pay the same money that we would just keeping David?

First, it doesn't matter. We save $5 million to spend any way we want without David. We have no reason to believe that Sage would do worse than David... and he can't do much worse than David has since the second half of the '04 season. Sage has a better chance of doing better than David, than David has.

Secondly, yes, I've posted several times a lucrative 3 year contract offer (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=606420&postcount=157) for Jake that would not cost us one extra dime than it would cost to carry David over the next two years(the third year doesn't count, because there is nothing on the books now for David in that third year).

So for people thinking that we can't get anyone better than David, that argument is just plain stupid, no one has performed worse over the last 2.5 years.

& for people that thinks it will cost too much, my deal suggests otherwise.

& for the people that don't believe David is poison, I give you Eric Moulds & Dunta Robinson... And perhaps Wand, Morency, & Walker.

texans83
03-01-2007, 01:45 PM
First, it doesn't matter. We save $5 million to spend any way we want without David. We have no reason to believe that Sage would do worse than David... and he can't do much worse than David has since the second half of the '04 season. Sage has a better chance of doing better than David, than David has.

Secondly, yes, I've posted several times a lucrative 3 year contract offer (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=606420&postcount=157) for Jake that would not cost us one extra dime than it would cost to carry David over the next two years(the third year doesn't count, because there is nothing on the books now for David in that third year).

So for people thinking that we can't get anyone better than David, that argument is just plain stupid, no one has performed worse over the last 2.5 years.

& for people that thinks it will cost too much, my deal suggests otherwise.

& for the people that don't believe David is poison, I give you Eric Moulds & Dunta Robinson... And perhaps Wand, Morency, & Walker.

NO ONE HAS PLAYED WORSE????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 01:50 PM
NO ONE HAS PLAYED WORSE????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME

Name one person who has... I'm drawing a blank.

ib4texans
03-01-2007, 01:54 PM
First, it doesn't matter. We save $5 million to spend any way we want without David. We have no reason to believe that Sage would do worse than David... and he can't do much worse than David has since the second half of the '04 season. Sage has a better chance of doing better than David, than David has.

Secondly, yes, I've posted several times a lucrative 3 year contract offer (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showpost.php?p=606420&postcount=157) for Jake that would not cost us one extra dime than it would cost to carry David over the next two years(the third year doesn't count, because there is nothing on the books now for David in that third year).

So for people thinking that we can't get anyone better than David, that argument is just plain stupid, no one has performed worse over the last 2.5 years.

& for people that thinks it will cost too much, my deal suggests otherwise.

& for the people that don't believe David is poison, I give you Eric Moulds & Dunta Robinson... And perhaps Wand, Morency, & Walker.

TK, your problem needs to be with the FO then because thay are not creating the deals that you like. I know you want to start Sage,but most of your posts have also inferred that we keep David. XtrueroyaltyX said that he wants to just cut him, I don't think Plummer would do worse I just don't think he will do any better at all. It would need to be zero value trade, I want to spend the money other places.

Second Honeymoon
03-01-2007, 01:58 PM
NO ONE HAS PLAYED WORSE????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME

Carr has been garbage since Day One. Anyone would be better than Carr on Opening Day. The Texans are an embarassment and it will take a little luck and cunning for the Texans to turn this thing around anytime soon.

As for who has played worse than Carr at QB the past few years?

Frye, Brooks, Gradkowski, and Alex Smith's rookie season

Only 2 teams in the NFL have a worse QB situation than we do (cleveland and oakland) .....this while we are spending big $ at the position and getting no return on our investment, faith, and patience.

just get it through your heads that Carr will always be a failure as a franchise QB...its encoded in his DNA...he doesnt have IT and he never will

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 01:59 PM
TK, your problem needs to be with the FO then because thay are not creating the deals that you like. I know you want to start Sage,but most of your posts have also inferred that we keep David. XtrueroyaltyX said that he wants to just cut him, I don't think Plummer would do worse I just don't think he will do any better at all. It would need to be zero value trade, I want to spend the money other places.

I don't really care what happens to David, as long as he is not starting. I don't think he is ready for it.

& the only thing my deal was even thought up for, was to show that Plummer will not be too expensive, or at least he doesn't have to be.

I don't want Jake either. Cut David, and spend that $5 million on a center, a corner, a RB, a LB or whatever.

If you're inclined to give him one more shot, let him sit on the bench, and earn the starting job like every other backup-come starter. Get off the bench, and go to work. Don't wait three Qtrs to start playing football.

real
03-01-2007, 02:00 PM
He hasn't convinced me he can play a whole game much less a whole season.

And David Carr has ? :confused:

Are you telling me that we will struggle to find someone to hand the ball off a majority of the time and throw 11 WHOPPING touchdowns for the season ?

How will we ever replace all that Carr has meant to us ?!

Battle Red Flash
03-01-2007, 02:02 PM
I voted no.
I want Sage to start, and a rookie to groom.
... and Porter.

Navy_Chris
03-01-2007, 02:05 PM
I voted no.
I want Sage to start, and a rookie to groom.
... and Porter.

Thank you Red Flash! Sage, Kevin, Quinton. That's zacly how it should be.

texans83
03-01-2007, 02:06 PM
I voted no.
I want Sage to start, and a rookie to groom.
... and Porter.

Sage during one performance played well and now after that you want him to start...... Come on man. The man is a B A C K U P. thats it. get used to it.

dirty steve
03-01-2007, 02:20 PM
Sage during one performance played well and now after that you want him to start...... Come on man. The man is a B A C K U P. thats it. get used to it.
that's my point too. you think tim hasselbeck and marquis tuiasosopo could hang for an extended period of time if their respective starters went down?

Mr teX
03-01-2007, 02:21 PM
I voted no.
I want Sage to start, and a rookie to groom.
... and Porter.

the guy is a back up for a reason, Has been a back up his whole career. This isn't Brady were talking about here people who was brought in exclusively to replace Drew Bledsoe @ the end of the season most likely, by Belichick.

On top of that, he's made other stops & was a back up there as well. He won't be much better than DC if he starts, It's time we groomed a young Qb like it's suppossed to be done. Lets try to pry Aarron Rodgers He's had time to sit the bench & Brett Favre's gonna play till he's 60.:shades:

texans83
03-01-2007, 02:26 PM
the guy is a back up for a reason, Has been a back up his whole career. This isn't Brady were talking about here people who was brought in exclusively to replace Drew Bledsoe @ the end of the season most likely, by Belichick.

On top of that, he's made other stops & was a back up there as well. He won't be much better than DC if he starts, It's time we groomed a young Qb like it's suppossed to be done. Lets try to pry Aarron Rodgers He's had time to sit the bench & Brett Favre's gonna play till he's 60.:shades:

:dance2: :dance2: you are prob right

HOU-TEX
03-01-2007, 02:29 PM
Sage during one performance played well and now after that you want him to start...... Come on man. The man is a B A C K U P. thats it. get used to it.

that's my point too. you think tim hasselbeck and marquis tuiasosopo could hang for an extended period of time if their respective starters went down?

What's Carr? IMO, his production since coming to the NFL has been equivalent to a back up. It's not like the numbers could get any worse. IMO, the QB's mentioned above would be as, if not more, productive than Carr.:winky:

dirty steve
03-01-2007, 02:31 PM
What's Carr? IMO, his production since coming to the NFL has been equivalent to a back up. It's not like the numbers could get any worse. IMO, the QB's mentioned above would be as, if not more, productive than Carr.:winky:
we werent talking about carr, we were talking about Rosenfels' ability to take over the job full time in 2007 should DC leave and a suitable replacement outside the organization not found.

OrangeCountyTexansFan
03-01-2007, 02:43 PM
Listening to Sirius NFL Radio's The Afternoon Blitz program the other afternoon, Adam Schein and Solomon Wilcots both seem to think Carr will be back. They also seem to think that the Houston Texans organization has let Carr down, not the other way around. They seem to think he needs:

1. A better receiver than we have to compliment AJ.
2. A consistent running game.
3. An offensive line that can protect Carr for the majority of the game.

While I agree with other posters that he has been playing like a back-up, I also realize along with Schein and Wilcots that he is not the only person on offense that takes the field.
But if Carr indeed comes back, this will be his do-or-die year, IMO.

Ole Miss Texan
03-01-2007, 02:44 PM
Sage hasn't shown me anything to warrant being the starter for 2007. He came in as a backup a couple games and did pretty good. Some of you may feel confident making him our starter but i'm not and it's because I/We havn't seen enough of him.

I'm not against Plummer coming here. If for nothing else to be more of a leader than carr and help the others transition into this system. I don't think we get all that much more from him but I don't think we get any less either. I don't want him if he's going to cost us a high draft pick or a lot of money...

I'm fine with Carr being our starter and that's who i voted for. the main reason is that i don't really see the other options as THAT much better. I think the cost/benifit of cutting or trading carr and then bringing in another guy like plummer wouldn't help that much. Carr hasn't really shown us that he should be the starter but i just think cutting him or trading him ...and still having to pay his 4million bucks wouldn't be too wise. of couse his salary is very large so that will play a big reason if he is gone...he's do what like 11million over 2 years? that may be too much even if we decide to take that 4mil cap hit.

I think a lot of people will say start sage, get plummer, draft quinn, draft kolb not because it's going to make the team any better. but because they are just tired of carr and want him gone.

I think the question most fans are answering is do you want carr gone just so he's gone and don't care who's our next QB?
my answer would be only if it makes the team better, and that's a question i can honestly say i dont know. kubes has shown us he'll cut some guys. we'll see what happens with carr. it'll be very interesting.

MATRIX
03-01-2007, 03:58 PM
I say YES.

Reason:

In his time here he really has 1 year of a set system. Dom changed it year to year. Plus, no OL takes it's toll on you being good. How many hits can you take before you almost throw with your eyes closed praying the LB or DE or DT hit you? Brady & Manning would have a challange in the no OL Houston(with rotating systems).

They say Carr looks like a Manning in practice. And as good as Manning is, that would say Carr is what 80% as good? Meaning if he is protected, has a run game and can get over being scared of getting his head shoved into the turf 90% of the time. He maybe as good as say 3/4ths of the QBs in the NFL.

So, give him 1 more year in the SAME system and lets see what he can do. If we have a line and a RB that do their jobs. If he still is still walking around with a QB rating lower than 80...cut him. If not, give him a 3rd year and see.

I seem to recall a guy named Steve Young that had his butt kicked in Tampa. Once he got to San Fran(they had a line and a RB)...he went to the Pro Bowl.

Anyone see a similarity? Then agian, he could be another Moon and never produce and act scared 75% of the time and never pull off the big one.

Lets just relax for a year, better QB's in 08' draft anyway. Cut if 2yrs in Kubiaks system he fails...keep him if he improves.

We always have Sage...

Ryan
03-01-2007, 04:22 PM
Not no, but HELL NO!

what you said.

real
03-01-2007, 04:44 PM
They say Carr looks like a Manning in practice. And as good as Manning is, that would say Carr is what 80% as good? Meaning if he is protected, has a run game and can get over being scared of getting his head shoved into the turf 90% of the time. He maybe as good as say 3/4ths of the QBs in the NFL.

I find this part of your post particularly hilarious....

The means some people will go to in order to protect Carr is shocking...

What's next ? Fresno STATE rhymes with GREAT so that's what he's gonna be ?!

wolfscar
03-01-2007, 05:25 PM
Whoever we bring in, whoever we cut, whoever we keep, I just want the starter to be the guy who earns the spot.

If I was a betting man (and I am) then I would hazard a guess that David Carr will be our QB on day one, but it's a very shaky assumption right now. As for whether I'm happy if that comes to pass? If he delivers then I'm delighted. If he doesn't there'll be no more excuses. I think even the most vehement Carr fan would have to agree that this year it's crunch time.

HoustonFrog
03-01-2007, 06:06 PM
Just curious, are these actual quotes or are you paraphrasing?


Actual quotes from todays paper..sorry if this has been rehashed..work you know.

QB75
03-01-2007, 06:08 PM
Absolutely.

HoustonFrog
03-01-2007, 06:12 PM
Absolutely.

This is amazing to me. It really is. I feel like people out there have no clue what it takes to put a team together. If anyone thinks that fellow players..who see the guy daily and all last season can't get the job done here then I'd imagine there are alot more others that think the same but keep their mouths closed. This is a disaster if he stays. It isn't about "anyone but Carr." Getting someone to do what Carr did this last season isn't that difficult. Rosenfels, IMHO, could easily. What some people are saying is that they would like to waste a year with Carr instead of moving this franchise forward. You have lost it if you think any of this is going to make for a solid "team." next year. I'm seriously amazed at the blindness regarding this team.

MATRIX
03-01-2007, 06:13 PM
I find this part of your post particularly hilarious....

The means some people will go to in order to protect Carr is shocking...

What's next ? Fresno STATE rhymes with GREAT so that's what he's gonna be ?!


Really, I don't like Carr. But, from what alot have said: scouts, staff, recruiters and others. The guy can throw and read a D. So, given a shot with legit help at the OL...who knows.

Heath Shuler
03-01-2007, 06:14 PM
Most of the Yes votes are from people living on the west coast.... look at their location, most of them are blank.

They don't care about the Texans as much as they care for David Carr. Once Carr is gone, they'll be gone too.

How do you see who voted and for which choice?

potisyourfriend
03-01-2007, 06:50 PM
Heck no.. But I don't want Quinn or any College QB for that matter.. Give me Plummer and Sage fighting for the starter job.. I think Plummer could actually do a hell of alot better here than DC has.. But we need a bone-eh-fid RB..

vtech9
03-01-2007, 07:13 PM
Really, I don't like Carr. But, from what alot have said: scouts, staff, recruiters and others. The guy can throw and read a D. So, given a shot with legit help at the OL...who knows.

I have said all along that Carr has the physical capabilities to be a great QB, but he still makes the same mistakes today that he made his rookie year. Carr does have a great arm, but he doesn't have very good pocket presence. He hasn't proven that he has learned how to look off a defender, and he hasn't proven that he can consistantly go through his progressions.

People keep saying that we need to improve the OL, which is true for any team, but Carr's mistakes make the OL look worse than it is. I have heard that Carr does everything right in practice, but he doesn't show it in the games. Some players are just like that. They are great in practice, but can't get it done when it counts. There are also players that are just the opposite. Vonta Leach was said to be a poor practice player by Kubiak, but once he got into the game he proved to be better than was expected.

To the people that say that Sage can't get it done because he is only a back-up, I say what about Jake Delhomme and Kurt Warner. Jake was strictly a back-up until he got the chance to start in Carolina. Kurt was an after thought, and only a back-up when Trent Green got hurt in StL. Once they got the chance, they made the most of it. They got their chance because of injuries. Some people want to take Tom Brady out of this qroup, but the fact remains that he was a 6th round pick, that was the back-up to a good QB. If Bledsoe would not have gotten hurt, Brady quite possible would not have gotten his shot. My point is, you don't really know what a guy can do until he is given the chance to show you what he can do.

trutxn
03-01-2007, 07:43 PM
We want Vince to start for us, but since that is out of the question Carr is our best option FOR THIS YEAR. This does not mean he is the most talented QB available either. With the lack of QB talent in the draft and FA we would not find an immediate or permanent fix, no matter who we brought in. If we drafted a QB we would have to wait a couple years for a return. If we pick up a veteran it would only be for a couple years. Then add the fact the Texans don't have a lot of cap space, Carr makes sense.

HoustonFrog
03-01-2007, 07:46 PM
We want Vince to start for us, but since that is out of the question Carr is our best option FOR THIS YEAR. This does not mean he is the most talented QB available either. With the lack of QB talent in the draft and FA we would not find an immediate or permanent fix, no matter who we brought in. If we drafted a QB we would have to wait a couple years for a return. If we pick up a veteran it would only be for a couple years. Then add the fact the Texans don't have a lot of cap space, Carr makes sense.


So it makes sense not to move forward now and to have a guy whom teammates don't trust and whom will cause the same moaning this year?

trutxn
03-01-2007, 08:31 PM
So it makes sense not to move forward now and to have a guy whom teammates don't trust and whom will cause the same moaning this year?

I like D-Rob but 2 interceptions a year for our best corner is not going to cut it either. No one on the team besides Dre or DeMeco should say a word because they didn't perform well either. I don't like Carr, but he is just as good as any other option we have in FA, especially with us owing him $4 million even if he is gone. That would put us at $24 million in "dead" money. Carr clearly regressed last year, but the team has several more holes than just QB. If we replace Carr it will take away from other positions that could be filled. With the lack of QB talent available THIS YEAR, we should not waste any the other positions. If the team could improve from the trade, I'd support it, but no one in FA is an affordable improvement. What do you consider moving forward, releasing him and throwing away money?

HoustonFrog
03-01-2007, 08:39 PM
I like D-Rob but 2 interceptions a year for our best corner is not going to cut it either. No one on the team besides Dre or DeMeco should say a word because they didn't perform well either. I don't like Carr, but he is just as good as any other option we have in FA, especially with us owing him $4 million even if he is gone. That would put us at $24 million in "dead" money. Carr clearly regressed last year, but the team has several more holes than just QB. If we replace Carr it will take away from other positions that could be filled. With the lack of QB talent available THIS YEAR, we should not waste any the other positions. If the team could improve from the trade, I'd support it, but no one in FA is an affordable improvement. What do you consider moving forward, releasing him and throwing away money?

What people fail to grasp and at times it is even more important is a players affect on the direction and mindset of the team. People can gloss it all they want but two years ago theri were rumblings about some O-line not feeling that Carr was a leader. It isn't just Dunta. Moulds said they needed someone who was more of a leader and who could take over games. Do you think they are the only 2?No. Add that to the fact that management has already shown they they want better and we are in a situation that is getting ugly. You can say the cap hit would be horrible but not as horrible as another year of infighting while others guys like DeMeco, etc are wanting to win, not tread water. Rosenfels can do the same job Carr has and he is already signed. People talk about career backups yet say things like "the Cowboys could afford to sit Bledsoe, they had Romo."I saw this twice last week. Yet he was a career third stringer. If we could get Plummer to restructure and trade carr it would be the best deal possible. We would have a guy in the system that knows and it and can groom another. It won't win us instant SBs but will help us move towards competing and getting rid of the black cloud. Players ahve to answer these same questions daily.

trutxn
03-01-2007, 08:58 PM
What people fail to grasp and at times it is even more important is a players affect on the direction and mindset of the team. People can gloss it all they want but two years ago theri were rumblings about some O-line not feeling that Carr was a leader. It isn't just Dunta. Moulds said they needed someone who was more of a leader and who could take over games. Do you think they are the only 2?No. Add that to the fact that management has already shown they they want better and we are in a situation that is getting ugly. You can say the cap hit would be horrible but not as horrible as another year of infighting while others guys like DeMeco, etc are wanting to win, not tread water. Rosenfels can do the same job Carr has and he is already signed. People talk about career backups yet say things like "the Cowboys could afford to sit Bledsoe, they had Romo."I saw this twice last week. Yet he was a career third stringer. If we could get Plummer to restructure and trade carr it would be the best deal possible. We would have a guy in the system that knows and it and can groom another. It won't win us instant SBs but will help us move towards competing and getting rid of the black cloud. Players ahve to answer these same questions daily.

We all knew he wasn't a leader last year, he is not the solution to Houston's QB problem, but neither are any of the FA QBs either. I was ready to ditch him last year and pick up a real leader in the draft. But the hard truth is that there is no one better that we can afford, RIGHT NOW. I'm all for moving forward without DC, but if it does not make us immediately better it is not worth the trade. If DC started out bad next year, Sage could manage the offense just as good as a Plummer, so it wouldn't be an upgrade from what we already have.

HoustonFrog
03-01-2007, 09:35 PM
We all knew he wasn't a leader last year, he is not the solution to Houston's QB problem, but neither are any of the FA QBs either. I was ready to ditch him last year and pick up a real leader in the draft. But the hard truth is that there is no one better that we can afford, RIGHT NOW. I'm all for moving forward without DC, but if it does not make us immediately better it is not worth the trade. If DC started out bad next year, Sage could manage the offense just as good as a Plummer, so it wouldn't be an upgrade from what we already have.

That sounds like a real simple solution until Sage has a soso game and people start yelling..."see, he isn't the answer, put in Carr."So if Rosenfels can manage just as well why not cut the questions and clouds by naming him starter and getting a guy in the next two years? There are other backups. The main goal should be to start building toward the future while cutting the constant question marks. If a trade can accomplish that, then so be it. Right now all of you are just saying, keep him as a lame duck and let the team deal with the distraction. There is no way teammates want to deal with that all year long and be told they are just waiting out another year. As far as "there are no FA QBs, etc" who says they can't play or that Rosenfels won't be better?That is just pure guess work and right now we are dealing with nothing. There are also people that thought Romo was a career backup and VY and other rookies had a few years of mentoring. You just can't tell.

Vinny
03-01-2007, 09:53 PM
I like D-Rob but 2 interceptions a year for our best corner is not going to cut it either. Dre' Bly had 3 last year and half this board wanted to sign him. Samari Rolle had 3, Nathan Vasher had 3, Sam Madison had 2....int's aren't the measure of a great corner. Some years they will come, some years they won't....especially if your leading pass rusher has like 5 sacks.

Honoring Earl 34
03-01-2007, 10:03 PM
Dre' Bly had 3 last year and half this board wanted to sign him. Samari Rolle had 3, Nathan Vasher had 3, Sam Madison had 2....int's aren't the measure of a great corner. Some years they will come, some years they won't....especially if your leading pass rusher has like 5 sacks.

I've become a huge fan of Dunta for sticking his neck out and trying to force the Texans hand .

If Carr stays why would AJ . Why would any FA worth his salt want to play for this team .

My let's go deep theory ... Moulds told Clements not to come here unless they ditch Carr .

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 10:05 PM
I like D-Rob but 2 interceptions a year for our best corner is not going to cut it either. No one on the team besides Dre or DeMeco should say a word because they didn't perform well either. I don't like Carr, but he is just as good as any other option we have in FA, especially with us owing him $4 million even if he is gone. That would put us at $24 million in "dead" money. Carr clearly regressed last year, but the team has several more holes than just QB. If we replace Carr it will take away from other positions that could be filled. With the lack of QB talent available THIS YEAR, we should not waste any the other positions. If the team could improve from the trade, I'd support it, but no one in FA is an affordable improvement. What do you consider moving forward, releasing him and throwing away money?

What if that $5 million can help us get Nate Clements?? If we are going to talk about what Denver does, where they don't spend a lot of money on RBs, or not picking a RB in the first round, or not picking OL in the first round... One thing they will do, one position they do value, because they know how hard it is to find quality at that position is Corner.

Imagine we get Nate Clements & Ken(??) Hamlin, then sign Laron Landry in the Draft??

We'll have to spend $2 million in dead money for David Carr, & we save $5 million to address other needs.

thunderkyss
03-01-2007, 10:07 PM
Dre' Bly had 3 last year and half this board wanted to sign him. Samari Rolle had 3, Nathan Vasher had 3, Sam Madison had 2....int's aren't the measure of a great corner. Some years they will come, some years they won't....especially if your leading pass rusher has like 5 sacks.

yet Vasher, Rolle, & Madison did about the same.... I guess you can't judge a DE by sacks alone.

GNTLEWOLF
03-02-2007, 06:14 AM
I don't really care who the QB is. Let's win some football games. BTW that starts with O-line, and D-line. Those are the positions that I believe our draft should center around...and it wouldn't hurt if we could get a new RB along the way.

threetoedpete
03-02-2007, 08:20 AM
Heck no.. But I don't want Quinn or any College QB for that matter.. Give me Plummer and Sage fighting for the starter job.. I think Plummer could actually do a hell of alot better here than DC has.. But we need a bone-eh-fid RB..

At this point...due to the lack of news on that front...your choices are move up to draft Quinn, or live with DC for another season. Sage may beat him out. Looking at beerlovers lines list on the other thread...ought to give you a clue there. Too many holes to fill and not enough cap dollars to fill them.

Almost a fifty fifty split. Mind boggeling.

Mr teX
03-02-2007, 08:57 AM
I say YES.

Reason:

In his time here he really has 1 year of a set system. Dom changed it year to year. Plus, no OL takes it's toll on you being good. How many hits can you take before you almost throw with your eyes closed praying the LB or DE or DT hit you? Brady & Manning would have a challange in the no OL Houston(with rotating systems).

They say Carr looks like a Manning in practice. And as good as Manning is, that would say Carr is what 80% as good? Meaning if he is protected, has a run game and can get over being scared of getting his head shoved into the turf 90% of the time. He maybe as good as say 3/4ths of the QBs in the NFL.

So, give him 1 more year in the SAME system and lets see what he can do. If we have a line and a RB that do their jobs. If he still is still walking around with a QB rating lower than 80...cut him. If not, give him a 3rd year and see.

I seem to recall a guy named Steve Young that had his butt kicked in Tampa. Once he got to San Fran(they had a line and a RB)...he went to the Pro Bowl.

Anyone see a similarity? Then agian, he could be another Moon and never produce and act scared 75% of the time and never pull off the big one.

Lets just relax for a year, better QB's in 08' draft anyway. Cut if 2yrs in Kubiaks system he fails...keep him if he improves.

We always have Sage...

I agree with everything you said, but the bolded. For all that has gone wrong with Carr & the texans, He is STILL beyond "giving" of anything. If he truly is deserving of the starting nod, he needs to win it by his consistent play in practice & on the field. If he's the better guy then give it to him, if plummer or garcia come in & put him on the pine then so be it, But whatever happens, we need to have a young guy that kubiak is high on watching & learning & ready to take the reins when his time is up.

real
03-02-2007, 09:08 AM
At this point...due to the lack of news on that front...your choices are move up to draft Quinn, or live with DC for another season. Sage may beat him out. Looking at beerlovers lines list on the other thread...ought to give you a clue there. Too many holes to fill and not enough cap dollars to fill them.

Almost a fifty fifty split. Mind boggeling.

Why would we move up to draft Quinn ?

threetoedpete
03-02-2007, 09:16 AM
Why would we move up to draft Quinn ?

Why not ? If we're starting over anyway, and the holes at OLT and center can't be filled, you're pretty much damned to the same thing you got last season. Why not go get him ? We're in cap he77 anyway, seems prudent to me. Switch Carr for Quinn and move on. Take our lumps in '07 and set up the '08 off season. Every ones ship is sailing in the same direction.

real
03-02-2007, 09:19 AM
No.

Carr will not succeed in any system except flag football where he doesn't have to worry about getting hit.

Until Carr is able to focus on his recievers, and not the rush, he will always be jittery and nervous in the pocket which is his BIGGEST problem. That is what all of his problems stem from. Locking on to a primary reciever, not being able to throw intermidiate passes, throwing Jump balls ALL the time, and not being able to throw anything deep except streak routes...Why? Because all of those things take a little time, and Carr has never been able to buy himself more time to make a throw. And even when he has the time he's often times too jittery and make a bad throw. Eric Moulds pretty much confirmed this line of thinking.


He has all the physical ability in the world, but his mind is what needs work. It's almost like he doesn't even realize he's moving so fast. He needs to slow down, and slide in the pocket. And even if he really doesn't trust his O-line (which I don't blame him for) he needs to learn how to escape the pocket and make plays outside of it. The only time he's made throws down field outside of the pocket is on designed roll outs. I've yet to see Carr elude a pass rush and make a play, or take a hit AS he's making a throw, OR slide in the pocket and let his lineman push the D-line past him up field. He is Drew Bledsoe in the Pocket and a Knock of Michael Vick once he escapes...The only difference is that occasionally Mike will occasionally throw it down field once he leaves the pocket instead of just taking off and running.

real
03-02-2007, 09:25 AM
Why not ? If we're starting over anyway, and the holes at OLT and center can't be filled, you're pretty much damned to the same thing you got last season. Why not go get him ? We're in cap he77 anyway, seems prudent to me. Switch Carr for Quinn and move on. Take our lumps in '07 and set up the '08 off season. Every ones ship is sailing in the same direction.



If we move up for anyone, IMO, the only people who's worth it are AD, JT, or CJ.

And to get any one of those guys we'd have to move up to atleat 3, because at four none of them may be there...

Mr teX
03-02-2007, 09:29 AM
No.

Carr will not succeed in any system except flag football where he doesn't have to worry about getting hit.

Until Carr is able to focus on his recievers, and not the rush, he will always be jittery and nervous in the pocket which is his BIGGEST problem. That is what all of his problems stem from. Locking on to a primary reciever, not being able to throw intermidiate passes, throwing Jump balls ALL the time...

He has all the physical ability in the world, but his mind is what needs work. It's almost like he doesn't even realize he's moving so fast. He needs to slow down, and slide in the pocket. And even if he really doesn't trust his O-line (which I don't blame him for) he needs to learn how to escape the pocket and make plays outside of it. The only time he's made throws down field outside of the pocket is on designed roll outs. I've yet to see Carr elude a pass rush and make a play, or take a hit AS he's making a throw, OR slide in the pocket and let his lineman push the D-line past him up field. He is Drew Bledsoe in the Pocket and a Knock of Michael Vick once he escapes...The only difference is that occasionally Mike will occasionally throw it down field once he leaves the pocket instead of just taking off and running.


That's what 5 years of getting smashed will do to you.

:hides: Waits for T-skyss to come in with his 2.5 sec. theory.

threetoedpete
03-02-2007, 09:53 AM
If we move up for anyone, IMO, the only people who's worth it are AD, JT, or CJ.

And to get any one of those guys we'd have to move up to atleat 3, because at four none of them may be there...


apperently Kubiak and Smith do not agree with you.

threetoedpete
03-02-2007, 10:04 AM
No.

Carr will not succeed in any system except flag football where he doesn't have to worry about getting hit.

Until Carr is able to focus on his recievers, and not the rush, he will always be jittery and nervous in the pocket which is his BIGGEST problem. That is what all of his problems stem from. Locking on to a primary reciever, not being able to throw intermidiate passes, throwing Jump balls ALL the time, and not being able to throw anything deep except streak routes...Why? Because all of those things take a little time, and Carr has never been able to buy himself more time to make a throw. And even when he has the time he's often times too jittery and make a bad throw. Eric Moulds pretty much confirmed this line of thinking.



He has all the physical ability in the world, but his mind is what needs work. It's almost like he doesn't even realize he's moving so fast. He needs to slow down, and slide in the pocket. And even if he really doesn't trust his O-line (which I don't blame him for) he needs to learn how to escape the pocket and make plays outside of it. The only time he's made throws down field outside of the pocket is on designed roll outs. I've yet to see Carr elude a pass rush and make a play, or take a hit AS he's making a throw, OR slide in the pocket and let his lineman push the D-line past him up field. He is Drew Bledsoe in the Pocket and a Knock of Michael Vick once he escapes...The only difference is that occasionally Mike will occasionally throw it down field once he leaves the pocket instead of just taking off and running.


Well it's not a done deal yet, but it will be very interesting for me to see the results of the new guy with basically the same o-line we've had for five years. I just got called out that it is an old excuse and it isn't apt in this circumstance. And I will relish if this does go down watching some of you whipping the egg off your faces. So accordding to you all, you're getting exactly what you've wanted for three years...We'll see if it was the answer you've been psoting it was for the last three years. If it is not ? you start building a decent o-line...which is what they should of done right after Bosselli delcalred he wasn't coming back. They've been incompitent enough to waist one prospect, we''ll see if history repeats itself. Seems to me these guys are doing exactly the same things CC and Capers did ? They're pluging holes with meidocre tallent because the past mistakes are soaking up the cap dollars. They have no other option. You start over. We get to see in spades if it is indeed the QBs inablity to "move in the pocket" regarldess of the rush. Gonna be a hoot for me for sure.

real
03-02-2007, 10:08 AM
apperently Kubiak and Smith do not agree with you.

I don't think anything is apparent about Kubiak and Smith other than their positions with the team, and the color of their skin.

Who knows what they'll do....

real
03-02-2007, 10:35 AM
Well it's not a done deal yet, but it will be very interesting for me to see the results of the new guy with basically the same o-line we've had for five years. I just got called out that it is an old excuse and it isn't apt in this circumstance. And I will relish if this does go down watching some of you whipping the egg off your faces. So accordding to you all, you're getting what you've wanted for three years...We'll see if it was the answer you've been psoting it was for the last three years. If it is not ? you start building a decent o-line...which is what they should of done right after Bosselli delcalred he wasn't coming back. They've been incompitent enough to waist one prospect, we''ll see if history repeats itself. Seems to me these guys are doing exactly the same things CC and Capers did ? They're pluging holes with meidocre tallent because the past mistakes are soaking up the cap dollars. They have no other option. You start over. We get to see in spades if it is indeed the QBs inablity to "move in the pocket" regarldess of the rush. Gonna be a hoot for me for sure.

Just my personal opinion, but the line wasn't that bad this past year...especially considering the fact that we ended the season with 4 different starters than we began with...

Carr had plenty of time on several occasions, and still failed to make a play. You don't have to take my word for it...He!! Eric Moulds said no team in the leauge is going to have a perfect O-line, and sometimes as a QB you have to put the team on your back and make plays....Now this is coming from a multiple pro-bowl veteran WR, who's been around the leauge and has seen our situation up close and personal...

And as far as Carr's replacement...

I just think that it will be better for the team if we atleast appeared to show the effort of trying to find a competent QB, instead of running a guy out there who's clearly not getting it done...I will never understand that mind set...

I honestly wouldn't mind if we rolled with Sage, another Vet, and a rookie...It atleast looks like you're trying to find an answer instead of appearing to be content with below average QB play. No other player on our team could have played this poorly for this long. The only reason he's lasted this long is because of the "circumstances"...I didn't hear a single person last year saying we should keep Capers or Casserly for fear of not being able to find someone better...It was clear they didn't get the job done and we moved on...And if Kubiak doesn't get it done he'll be fired and life will go on....Why such a turtles pace with Carr ?

Texas_Thrill
03-02-2007, 10:43 AM
No, but the alternatives would cause me to say yes.

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 10:43 AM
That's what 5 years of getting smashed will do to you.

:hides: Waits for T-skyss to come in with his 2.5 sec. theory.

I'm watching you MR. Tex....

I'm watching you.

real
03-02-2007, 10:45 AM
Carr for sure. :thumbup He's still got value and he's young and has 2 years left on his contract and we have already paid him, so lets get something for our money. I'm all in for giving him 2007. I don't see things through "orange colored glasses"...just logistics.

What about Carr's play would make you want to hand him the Job next year :confused:

dirty steve
03-02-2007, 10:46 AM
yet Vasher, Rolle, & Madison did about the same.... I guess you can't judge a DE by sacks alone.
i remember two years ago when Dunta had the great rookie year and I couldnt understand how someone that had less INT's than him made the Pro Bowl. That CB was Champ Bailey--nobody throws to his side, hence the lack of opportunity of INT.

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 10:49 AM
Just my personal opinion, but the line wasn't that bad this past year...especially considering the fact that we ended the season with 4 different starters than we began with...


We only gave up 41 sacks.

I think Many of them were on the QB..... however, let's just say 7 could've been avoided if we had a different QB.

That would've been 34 sacks.

I think many of them could've been avoided if we had a different QB, and used more shotgun formations. with Carr, lets say we could have avoided 6 of those.

That's 28 sacks...

lets say Dayne, Gado, Morency, et al... missed 5 blocks which led to 5 sacks..

That's 23 sacks we can attribute to our offensive line.

That's not too bad, when you think about it.

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 10:54 AM
i remember two years ago when Dunta had the great rookie year and I couldnt understand how someone that had less INT's than him made the Pro Bowl. That CB was Champ Bailey--nobody throws to his side, hence the lack of opportunity of INT.

I don't think Dunta rates up there with any of those guys. My comments were in reply to something else....

But most teams threw to the other side of the field, not because Dunta is that good, but because the otherside was an easier target.

texas mopar
03-02-2007, 11:03 AM
We only gave up 41 sacks.

I think Many of them were on the QB..... however, let's just say 7 could've been avoided if we had a different QB.

That would've been 34 sacks.

I think many of them could've been avoided if we had a different QB, and used more shotgun formations. with Carr, lets say we could have avoided 6 of those.

That's 28 sacks...

lets say Dayne, Gado, Morency, et al... missed 5 blocks which led to 5 sacks..

That's 23 sacks we can attribute to our offensive line.

That's not too bad, when you think about it.

I think the o-line & running game stunk !!IMO We need to focus on these holes.

dirty steve
03-02-2007, 11:06 AM
I don't think Dunta rates up there with any of those guys. My comments were in reply to something else....

But most teams threw to the other side of the field, not because Dunta is that good, but because the otherside was an easier target.
that's not what i was trying to say. simply agreeing with the statement that stat lines dont always tell the whole story. i wouldnt put robinson there with bailey either.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2007, 11:11 AM
I think the o-line & running game stunk !!IMO We need to focus on these holes.

Marshawn Lynch
Joe Staley
Samson Satele

Yankee_In_TX
03-02-2007, 11:18 AM
All right, did Hulk hit yes 74 times? The way this question was asked, NO ONE can say yes!!!:stirpot:

Yankee_In_TX
03-02-2007, 11:20 AM
No, but the alternatives would cause me to say yes.

I agree EXACTLY with that :)

Double Barrel
03-02-2007, 11:56 AM
Carr for sure. :thumbup He's still got value and he's young and has 2 years left on his contract and we have already paid him, so lets get something for our money. I'm all in for giving him 2007. I don't see things through "orange colored glasses"...just logistics.

Value? Can you tell me more about this value you speak of? Specifically, dollar amounts, potential, and trade possibilities (draft picks, players, '71 VW bus, whatever).

Signed,

31 NFL teams

real
03-02-2007, 01:24 PM
:grouphug: I'm one of those who prefers to see the glass "half-full" instead of half-empty un-like some of you I've read. I won't argue over something I don't really have insite about. The FO isn't asking for my lowly opinion, nor yours...They are paid to do what they are doing, which is access talent. DC has "value" because he is an NFL QB with an upside (my opinion) He's young, athletic, moble and smart and an asset to our community. You may not like him, (that's evident) but for some reason he was drafted at the #1 spot for a reason. You seem to want to blame him for things that weren't in his control (debatable I'm sure).
I won't argue with you on that or any other matter.

I like the guy (my opinion) you don't (yours) That's what makes this country of ours so special. I just prefer to pick my battles carefully. I've got too much in my life I can get agitated about to get all "hot and bothered" about a sports team. I love the Houston Texan's and am "HAPPY" we have a team to call OURS. Some day they will pull it all together and make you all somewhat happy. But I'm the type of fan (notice I didn't say, the correct fan), but the "type" of fan that just loves football. I don't understand wishing "ill" on any human being, and that includes our players and DC as well. It's entertainment to me and good or bad, I'm entertained by the game. That's the difference between me and possibly you. I don't take any of this serious, it's not my money they are paying these players. I pay to go to the games...my choice, just like a trip to Disney World for my family. Yes, I paid for entertainment, good or bad, my choice to go. I may not like "It's A Small World" but my kids do, but I totally enjoyed the day and the trip.

Sorry, you won't get arguments from me. Just a FAN, whom gets amused by all this stuff on this board and wanted to add a cent or two. Have a great day Ya'll. It's great to be ALIVE...maybe you should all just take a moment to think on that...or maybe not, it's your choice!! :elmo:


Im not sure why you even bothered to post....

Texans_Chick
03-02-2007, 02:57 PM
Carr for sure. :thumbup He's still got value and he's young and has 2 years left on his contract and we have already paid him, so lets get something for our money. I'm all in for giving him 2007. I don't see things through "orange colored glasses"...just logistics.

Okay VOR. How about this....

Even if you think he is young, talented and contractually obligated, do you really think he can get a fair shake in Houston?

The fans boo him during situations where they wouldn't boo another QB. All QBs make mistakes but because the fans have seen so many oops during his learning, a lot of his good will has evaporated with the fans. And that was before the VY thing.

The front office has dumped him in the grease with all the he's the starting QB "right now."

Dunta dumps him in the grease on Cold Pizza, Moulds kicks him on the way out, and even Andre Johnson doesn't give him much of a vote of confidence.

I can actually see the argument that is not cool to dump Carr after one season in a new system that the rest of the players are new to also, and with a line that was a revolving door. That being said, even if you look at that line of 'reason,' the concern I have is that he can't get a fair shake from his front office, his coach, his teamates and well, a large portion of the fan base.

Football is a game of both reason and emotion. My Eagles fan friend was amazed at how quickly Texans fans booed Carr during the Eagles game where Carr looked good early. Philly fan saying that. If they are booing Carr the first game of the season trying to figure out a new offense from scratch, at what point are the fans ever going to support him? All QBs have bad games or bad moments in games, and it seems to me that Texans fans as a whole are sick of watching those from Carr.

And this isn't even mentioning the teammates. I talked to a retired player at the SB who was talking about playing on a team with an inconsistent QB. After a while they started seeing him as an albatross--that they had to hope for big plays on defense and a huge running game. He says it wears on you not having a QB that you feel like you can depend on.

(Kind of like when you struggle at your first job in your chosen field. It is hard for your co-workers to start respecting you as a peer because they've seen all your mistakes and might say, there we go again. Sometimes a change of scenary provides a clean start).

Okay, so what I am talking about is not 'reason' but emotion, but I believe you also have to look at emotion when you are talking about football. You ignore that at your peril.

People can argue back and forth about whether Carr is a QB that can be successful in the league, but I am not sure that there is much of an argument that Houston is suffering from Carr fatigue.

Double Barrel
03-02-2007, 04:47 PM
:grouphug: I'm one of those who prefers to see the glass "half-full" instead of half-empty un-like some of you I've read. I won't argue over something I don't really have insite about. The FO isn't asking for my lowly opinion, nor yours...They are paid to do what they are doing, which is access talent. DC has "value" because he is an NFL QB with an upside (my opinion) He's young, athletic, moble and smart and an asset to our community. You may not like him, (that's evident) but for some reason he was drafted at the #1 spot for a reason. You seem to want to blame him for things that weren't in his control (debatable I'm sure).
I won't argue with you on that or any other matter.

I like the guy (my opinion) you don't (yours) That's what makes this country of ours so special. I just prefer to pick my battles carefully. I've got too much in my life I can get agitated about to get all "hot and bothered" about a sports team. I love the Houston Texan's and am "HAPPY" we have a team to call OURS. Some day they will pull it all together and make you all somewhat happy. But I'm the type of fan (notice I didn't say, the correct fan), but the "type" of fan that just loves football. I don't understand wishing "ill" on any human being, and that includes our players and DC as well. It's entertainment to me and good or bad, I'm entertained by the game. That's the difference between me and possibly you. I don't take any of this serious, it's not my money they are paying these players. I pay to go to the games...my choice, just like a trip to Disney World for my family. Yes, I paid for entertainment, good or bad, my choice to go. I may not like "It's A Small World" but my kids do, but I totally enjoyed the day and the trip.

Sorry, you won't get arguments from me. Just a FAN, whom gets amused by all this stuff on this board and wanted to add a cent or two. Have a great day Ya'll. It's great to be ALIVE...maybe you should all just take a moment to think on that...or maybe not, it's your choice!! :elmo:

Your kumbaya 'We Are The World' rhetoric aside... :howdy:

I've said before that regardless if you're a 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty' perspective, always be glad that we even have a glass.

So all that out of the way, it is not a matter of liking or disliking Carr. He's a wonderful human being and an asset to the community.

But you know what? Defenses could give a crap about all that. They sack him anyway, and sack him a lot.

There are basically three types of QBs in the NFL:

1. Those that do more with less (like a Tom Brady to Jabar Gaffney)

2. Those that can do with a strong cast around them (Trent Dilfer on the Ravens)

3. Those that just suck no matter who you put them with (Ryan Leaf anyone?)

So, in five full seasons, we know - for a fact/without a doubt - that Carr is not the first type of QB. He can't do more with less, because it's been proven time and time again. This team has always had less, and the results are what they are: Texans history.

Carr is now either 2. or 3., and personally, I don't think he flat out sucks. I think he is the kind of QB that can manage a game given the right circumstances. And those circumstances would be a team that has all the components - dominant D, good running game, a line that can block - and doesn't need the QB to be the leader. For instance, if you put Carr in Rex Grossman's place, I think he's got a good shot at success if he can keep his game consistent. This isn't an insult or criticism, but just objective analysis of one of our players that we've seen a lot of.

So the question you have to ask yourself is this: Will the Texans be able to build a team that David Carr requires to be successful? Personally, I think we've passed that window of opportunity because of stupid decisions by the previous staff (Casserly, Capers, etc.). We are now dealing with a reality that we are severely restricted from building a team like this over the next 24 months. Carrying $20 million in dead cap, and only having $15 million to work with under the cap, it's rather obvious that we're going to need players that can do more with less. As already established, David Carr is not this kind of player (again, it's absolutely not a criticism).

In reality, it's not fair to Carr or the team to keep him here, in a situation that he simply cannot succeed because we cannot obtain the pieces quick enough.

What you have to understand, which seems to evade you, is that being a football fanatic is about passion. We are an emotional bunch because we care. Being a fanatic doesn't mean we don't have lives. Matter-of-fact, I personally know many of these fine folks around here have great, successful careers and well developed families. But we're also Houston Texans fans, ones that love our team and want nothing more than to experience success with them.

And yes, it is great to be alive. That pretty much goes without saying, but I do appreciate the obvious in some folks. :bubble:

Maddict5
03-02-2007, 05:39 PM
We only gave up 41 sacks.

I think Many of them were on the QB..... however, let's just say 7 could've been avoided if we had a different QB.

That would've been 34 sacks.

I think many of them could've been avoided if we had a different QB, and used more shotgun formations. with Carr, lets say we could have avoided 6 of those.

That's 28 sacks...

lets say Dayne, Gado, Morency, et al... missed 5 blocks which led to 5 sacks..

That's 23 sacks we can attribute to our offensive line.

That's not too bad, when you think about it.

for the love of god stop posting this stupid argument/thought/hypothesy-

carr was poor last year (not making excuses), but the o-line was poor aswell though which was a cause in our terrible passing game from mid-season on...hence all the 3 step drops/ 4 yard hitches,out routes etc we saw

or to put it in terms you'd understand- if we had alot of 5,7 step drops carr would've been sacked waaaaaaaay more....

like a defensive end, a good o-line cant be measured in sacks

Arky
03-02-2007, 05:48 PM
for the love of god stop posting this stupid argument/thought/hypothesy-

carr was poor last year (not making excuses), but the o-line was poor aswell though which was a cause in our terrible passing game from mid-season on...hence all the 3 step drops/ 4 yard hitches,out routes etc we saw

or to put it in terms you'd understand- if we had alot of 5,7 step drops carr would've been sacked waaaaaaaay more....

like a defensive end, a good o-line cant be measured in sacks

That's the way I see it, too. The offense got nerfed in the 2nd half of the season so the QB wouldn't get sacked/wouldn't fumble due to a banged up and porous O-line...

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 07:59 PM
for the love of god stop posting this stupid argument/thought/hypothesy-

carr was poor last year (not making excuses), but the o-line was poor aswell though which was a cause in our terrible passing game from mid-season on...hence all the 3 step drops/ 4 yard hitches,out routes etc we saw

or to put it in terms you'd understand- if we had alot of 5,7 step drops carr would've been sacked waaaaaaaay more....

like a defensive end, a good o-line cant be measured in sacks

First of all, that's the way sacks are distributed. I've theorized about the amount of sacks we wouldn't have given up if we used more shotgun formation... but that's what the shotgun is for, & I think I was being conservative.

Who are the bad QBs in this league??

Aaron Brooks, you wouldn't have kept him in Oakland though would you?? even though they gave up 72 sacks. You've seen enough of Aaron to know that he doesn't have what it takes..... right??

J.P. Losman?? Statistically, his third year in the league was better than Carr's 5th, despite being sacked 47 times. David was only sacked 41 times. Even with those 47 sacks, J.P. was able to throw for 35 plays over 20 yards. 19 TDs... 14 INts.. & an 84.9 Passer Rating. completing 62% of his passes.

But he's clearly not the answer right??

Jon Kitna?? 4200 yards, 21 TDs, 22 INTs, 79.9 passer rating, 62.4% completions, 59 passes over 20 yards, 3 over 40... all while being sacked 63 times.

But he's no good, needs to move on. He's played his best football already right??

Charlie Frye?? as a second year starter(a second year player actually), the kid completed 64% of his passes, 24 over 20 yards, 6 over 40, he has a passer rating of 72, 10 TDs, 17 Ints, in 13 games. Did I mention he was sacked 44 times.

But he's not the answer right?? Cleveland should continue to search for their franchise QB right??

How about that Vick fella?? He's pretty much worthless as a QB right?? He only completed 52% of his passes, albeit 30 of them went for more than 20 yards, 8 of them went for more than 40(which leads to a higher YPA despite the much lower completion percentage). He only threw for 2400 yards in 16 games. But he threw 20TDs & only 13 Ints. a QB rating of 75.7, which of those stats has David done better than Vick?? completion percentage?? Passer Rating?? but which ones have meaning during a game?? that's right, the number of big plays, the number of touchdowns, the number of Ints... oh yeah, Vick was sacked 45 times.

But David is better than all those guys right?? You can't see it on the stat sheet, you can't see it on the field, but David is worth building around, and none of those guys are... right?? David has more "potential" than those guys right?? Those guys have better teams right?? better offensive lines?? better WRs?? Better runningbacks??

Riiiight.

Detroit's running game was worse than ours, dead last in the league. Cleveland... 31st. Oakland 29th. Buffalo.. 27th..

ATlanta.. yeah, their run game is better than ours, but their QB accounted for 1000 yards on the ground.

Texans_Chick
03-02-2007, 09:28 PM
I understand your point, and I respect it. But who says Carr even wants to stay here anyway, regardless of the fact that he has a contract? We are assuming an awful lot in my opinion. Maybe he'd like to hightail it outta here as well. I sure would! Having said that, you are also assuming that ALL OF HOUSTON wants him gone. I was always taught that the word ALL meant every single one. I don't think that is the case here. It appears that this board doesn't have 4 million members, so the word ALL doesn't seem to apply. I try hard not to lump every one else into my own opinions, that can be dangerous.

He can stay or he can go, the decision will only be decided by the powers that be and not us. I think that like Mr. McNair has said as of late, that it's nothing that a WINNING season couldn't cure. I can't see fans booing WINS, can you? Just my opinion now, don't jump all over me.:doot:


That's what I meaning to say--talking about Texans fans as a whole being Carr fatigued. I'm not saying he doesn't have fans, but I am guessing the fan base as a whole is sick of the whole is Carr good or not debate, given that we still don't know the answer to that definitively after 5 years.

As for Carr wanting to be in Houston, I am taking his brother's word and Carr's words on their face. Why would his brother want to deceive a MB about this sort of thing or anything else?

Can't see fans booing wins? They booed the freaking victory formation for the last play of the season. Winning doesn't happen all at once. You don't start a season knowing for certain a team is going to be in the playoffs. In most NFL football games, there will be good things and bad things that happen in any NFL offense, and right now, the fanbase as a whole has not patience for normal bad, much less fumbling the snap bad, or throwing after running over the line of scrimmage twice in one game.[/QUOTE]

Indy Texans Fan
03-02-2007, 09:37 PM
I voted yes but not because of David...I think he needs a year to collect himself...( I mean year after year of losing seasons... A line that will give their own QB up to a sack bc they are flat out bad...and a defense that is God Awful) Put yourself in his shoes...U gotta a defense that couldn't stop a pee wee offense( Faggins...u suck) 2 or 3 td's...yea u should be in the nfl...u wouldn't of made my high school team u waste

thunderkyss
03-02-2007, 10:06 PM
I voted yes but not because of David...I think he needs a year to collect himself...( I mean year after year of losing seasons... A line that will give their own QB up to a sack bc they are flat out bad...and a defense that is God Awful) Put yourself in his shoes...U gotta a defense that couldn't stop a pee wee offense( Faggins...u suck) 2 or 3 td's...yea u should be in the nfl...u wouldn't of made my high school team u waste

Houston, Carolina, Detroit, & Miami all allowed 22 TDs this season.

Seattle(play-off team) gave up 23.

Tennessee & Cincinnati(contending for a play-off spot in week 17) allowed 24.

Greenbay, SanFrancisco, & Dallas(Play-off Team), none of which are drafting in the top 10, gave up 25 TDs.

New Orleans(NFC Championship Game) gave up 26 TDs.


Only Tennessee, Minnesota, & Oakland passed for less than 14 TDs... that's what the Texans passed for, 14 TDs.

We ran for 13 TDs... more than Denver, San Francisco, Baltimore, Green Bay, Atlanta, Buffalo, Seattle, Miami, & Carolina.... All drafting behind the Texans.

DarkNinja
03-02-2007, 11:39 PM
:aikido: Don't make this complicated. Just a simple yes or no will do. I'm trying to guage support for something. This shouldn't be a debate, or hypothetical. Just yes or no.



:aikido: Hells to Da NAW!!:aikido:

Maddict5
03-03-2007, 03:58 AM
First of all, that's the way sacks are distributed. I've theorized about the amount of sacks we wouldn't have given up if we used more shotgun formation... but that's what the shotgun is for, & I think I was being conservative.


right because David wouldnt have been sacked at all if we used the shotgun?:ok::drunk:

how about this: if we had used a proper playbook the last half of the season how many times would DC have been sacked???

Honoring Earl 34
03-03-2007, 06:53 AM
how about this: if we had used a proper playbook the last half of the season how many times would DC have been sacked???
__________________

I bet ... like a miracle the playbook expands with Garcia or Plummer .

I wonder if Tampa Bay offered the Texans a 4th rd pick for Carr ?

Vinny
03-03-2007, 10:09 AM
Carr has 75 NFL starts. SEVENTY FIVE and has been in the league half a decade now.

the most hilarious situation (in a twisted sort of way) is that the Texans have been courting Jake Plummer and Jeff Garcia from the start of free agency and the Carr homers are still trying to say it's everyone's fault except for the golden boy. I mean really, let go....come to grips with reality people. When your football team has the coach, GM, and some players come out and publicly say that Carr isn't getting it done and the team is courting reject QB's to take his place....um, if you don't have a good eye for the game...at least you can read between the lines.

ArlingtonTexan
03-03-2007, 10:31 AM
Carr has 75 NFL starts. SEVENTY FIVE and has been in the league half a decade now.

the most hilarious situation (in a twisted sort of way) is that the Texans have been courting Jake Plummer and Jeff Garcia from the start of free agency and the Carr homers are still trying to say it's everyone's fault except for the golden boy. I mean really, let go....come to grips with reality people. When your football team has the coach, GM, and some players come out and publicly say that Carr isn't getting it done and the team is courting reject QB's to take his place....um, if you don't have a good eye for the game...at least you can read between the lines.

I have never understood what Carr has done to engender the near blind loyality that about 1/3 of the fan base has expressed. I guess if you market someone as the guy for several years, the realily that he is just another guy never sinks in for some.

HuttoKarl
03-03-2007, 10:34 AM
Still saying trade him for whatever pick we can get (Detroit, Minny, Oakland???) and let Sage be our tackling dummy for the upcoming season, likely produce as much as Carr for far less cash and draft a QB with the savings at QB rather than spending it on a FA QB.

QB75
03-03-2007, 11:37 AM
Carr has 75 NFL starts. SEVENTY FIVE and has been in the league half a decade now.

the most hilarious situation (in a twisted sort of way) is that the Texans have been courting Jake Plummer and Jeff Garcia from the start of free agency and the Carr homers are still trying to say it's everyone's fault except for the golden boy. I mean really, let go....come to grips with reality people. When your football team has the coach, GM, and some players come out and publicly say that Carr isn't getting it done and the team is courting reject QB's to take his place....um, if you don't have a good eye for the game...at least you can read between the lines.

Yeah, that's a great strategy. Recruit "reject QBs" to improve your team. Talk about not having an eye for the game. :shades:

jacquescas
03-03-2007, 11:44 AM
I just think we have enough cap space to bring in a vetran and a middle round rookie, and have an open competition for the job.

HuttoKarl
03-03-2007, 11:46 AM
I just think we have enough cap space to bring in a vetran and a middle round rookie, and have an open competition for the job.

Bring in a rookie and have our current backups and the rookie compete and spend that cap space on the O-Line or D-Line. Give that vet QB money to Ian Scott of the Bears and have him and Mario crush people.

thunderkyss
03-03-2007, 12:10 PM
I have never understood what Carr has done to engender the near blind loyality that about 1/3 of the fan base has expressed. I guess if you market someone as the guy for several years, the realily that he is just another guy never sinks in for some.

I don't think it's just the marketing. I'm sure Alex Smith & J.P. Losman have been marketed just as much in their respective areas.

But I don't think they've been afforded the excuses David has. In 2002, we started blaming the OL, and being an expansion team it made sense, and kinda stuck. 76 sacks... there had to be a good reason.

Since that time, we've never used a high draft pick or signed the best FA LT money could buy, so the excuse that "we've ignored" the OL kinda made sense, even though we've drafted OL in every draft except 2004, when we picked up some FAs.

thunderkyss
03-03-2007, 12:12 PM
Yeah, that's a great strategy. Recruit "reject QBs" to improve your team. Talk about not having an eye for the game. :shades:

Sooner or later, you're going to realize that David is a reject QB. It's only a matter of time.

The big difference though is that both Jake & Jeff are rejects from better teams.

Double Barrel
03-03-2007, 12:28 PM
I have never understood what Carr has done to engender the near blind loyalty that about 1/3 of the fan base has expressed. I guess if you market someone as the guy for several years, the reality that he is just another guy never sinks in for some.

Some people find black and white thinking - that simpleton easy-to-digest perspective - to be easier on the mind. You either hate the guy or love the guy, because there is no 'in between'.

Of course, 90% of us fall somewhere in between, using our critical analysis abilities to absorb information from a variety of sources to form our own points of view. But to the 5% of lovers, 95% of the world are haters.

I certainly don't understand it, but it takes all kinds, I suppose.

Sooner or later, you're going to realize that David is a reject QB. It's only a matter of time.

No, to the lovers, Carr will always be a Hall of Fame talent ruined by a bad team. There is no alternative thinking here, only an elite talent that was hampered by everyone else's inability to raise their game to his level.

Of course, I'd better put on my flame suit, because these are fightin' words of pure hatred that I've written in this post. How dare I question Almighty Greatness and all that jazz.

jvaldez1984
03-03-2007, 12:33 PM
i'd keep carr. draft kolb or stanton in 2/3rd round build the o-line with carr back there. once the o-line is solidified insert kolb/stanton with a yr or so knowledge of kubiaks system and viola. the reason i'd keep carr is based on the fact that if we dont have an o-line that can protect well carr is durable enough to take the punishment. if you insert rookie or aged veteran now. you risk injury and then what? let carr take the hits while the young talent learns the system and the o-line learns to play as one. who knows maybe the pressure of a rookie behind him would make carr step up his game a lil more.

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2007, 12:38 PM
Yeah, that's a great strategy. Recruit "reject QBs" to improve your team. Talk about not having an eye for the game. :shades:

Since those "reject QB's" are better than what we have, then... yeah... that should improve our team. Swapping out one really bad QB for one that's only bad, it's the classic "lesser of 2 evils" strategy.

Arky
03-03-2007, 12:59 PM
.....

Of course, 90% of us fall somewhere in between, using our critical analysis abilities to absorb information from a variety of sources to form our own points of view. But to the 5% of lovers, 95% of the world are haters.....



Whelp, currently on this messageboard, the black & white vote is:

42.36% are lovers
57.64% are haters

thunderkyss
03-03-2007, 01:07 PM
i'd keep carr. draft kolb or stanton in 2/3rd round build the o-line with carr back there. once the o-line is solidified insert kolb/stanton with a yr or so knowledge of kubiaks system and viola. the reason i'd keep carr is based on the fact that if we dont have an o-line that can protect well carr is durable enough to take the punishment. if you insert rookie or aged veteran now. you risk injury and then what? let carr take the hits while the young talent learns the system and the o-line learns to play as one. who knows maybe the pressure of a rookie behind him would make carr step up his game a lil more.

But we save $5million if we allow Sage & BVP to handle that job. $5million that could get you an OLB, a DT, or a CB in Free Agency, and really help Mario, Demeco, Greenwood, Dunta & Laron.

thunderkyss
03-03-2007, 01:09 PM
Whelp, currently on this messageboard, the black & white vote is:

42.36% are lovers
57.64% are haters

Except many of those 42.36% lovers are only voting for him, because they don't understand our salary cap position is better if we flat out cut David, or because they want David to continue to take his beating while we groom his replacement.

Arky
03-03-2007, 01:13 PM
Except many of those 42.36% lovers are only voting for him, because they don't understand our salary cap position is better if we flat out cut David, or because they want David to continue to take his beating while we groom his replacement.

No, that's the black & white vote for whatever reasons.

No gray areas to be seen.

HoustonFrog
03-03-2007, 01:39 PM
I have never understood what Carr has done to engender the near blind loyality that about 1/3 of the fan base has expressed. I guess if you market someone as the guy for several years, the realily that he is just another guy never sinks in for some.


I'm with you. The calls I hear and the posts I see here border on absurd. It is almost like people have never seen a 1st round QB or any QB with a strong arm fail. The NFL highway is littered with guys just like him. He must have a shoe box full of pictures with alot of people doing bad things.

Honoring Earl 34
03-03-2007, 01:51 PM
I'm with you. The calls I hear and the posts I see here border on absurd. It is almost like people have never seen a 1st round QB or any QB with a strong arm fail. The NFL highway is littered with guys just like him. He must have a shoe box full of pictures with alot of people doing bad things.



I have never understood what Carr has done to engender the near blind loyality that about 1/3 of the fan base has expressed. I guess if you market someone as the guy for several years, the realily that he is just another guy never sinks in for some.






Daily Affirmation With Stuart Smalley


Stuart Smalley V/O: I deserve good things. I am entitled to my share of happiness. I refuse to beat myself up. I am attractive person. I am fun to be with.

Announcer: "Daily Affirmation with Stuart Smalley". Stuart Smalley is a caring nurturer, a member of several 12-step programs, but not a licensed therapist.

[ open on Stuart giving himself a pep talk in his full-length mirror ]

Stuart Smalley: I'm going to do a terrific show today! And I'm gonna help people! Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggonit, people like me!

TwinSisters
03-03-2007, 07:04 PM
I have never understood what Carr has done to engender the near blind loyality that about 1/3 of the fan base has expressed. I guess if you market someone as the guy for several years, the realily that he is just another guy never sinks in for some.

Trent Dilfer has a loyal fan base in four separate states.
( I am not kidding. )