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View Full Version : Kirwan sepculates on Schaub...wonders if Texans are interested


GP
02-26-2007, 02:30 PM
From a Kirwan article on nfl.com...

"1. A team in the top 14 spots in the draft could trade down close to the 15th spot, pick up an extra pick or two and then trade for Schaub and get the other players they need with the extra picks. Keep in mind, Schaub would have to negotiate a long-term deal with a new club. I'm not sure the Falcons will ever trade Schaub, but if a team calls with a pick close to No. 15, they might sit up and listen. I wonder if teams like Minnesota, Houston or Miami would consider this idea?"


link: http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/10023456


Sounds like a good deal to me. Heck, how many of us would trade to pick No. 10 and do this deal?

Makes me wonder if we (A) Passed on the Snake and removed ourselves from the bidding, (B)"We're Happy With Carr", and (C) Oh, by the way: We're working out a deal for Schaub that nets us a QB and an extra pick.

We opted out of the Plummer bidding very quickly, IMO.

Is there something else "in the mix?"

Hmmmmm...........

trutxn
02-26-2007, 02:37 PM
He costs too much...

texanfan2002114
02-26-2007, 02:46 PM
The Texans already have a QB that has been a back up. I would rather go with Sage than waste draft picks on a back up QB.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2007, 03:09 PM
I'd be ok with it. In theory we'd get Schaub in the first, maybe 2 2's and 2 3's. It's time to face the fact that we are not going to get Peterson with out trading up, and I like the idea of Schaub over trading up to get AP. Four picks the rest of day one would but us in a position to get line help, one both sides of the ball, and a good DB with our 1st round 2 pick.

Draft could look like so:
1. Schaub
2a. Griffen/Merriweather or Kaliel if he falls
2b. Best O-line or DB if we got Kaliel
3a. Ryan Harris
4b. Deshawn Wynn from Florida

real
02-26-2007, 04:26 PM
You mean Deshawn Wynn ?

Errant Hothy
02-26-2007, 04:33 PM
You mean Deshawn Wynn ?

That's the one

SamuraiSword
02-26-2007, 04:43 PM
From a Kirwan article on nfl.com...

"1. A team in the top 14 spots in the draft could trade down close to the 15th spot, pick up an extra pick or two and then trade for Schaub and get the other players they need with the extra picks. Keep in mind, Schaub would have to negotiate a long-term deal with a new club. I'm not sure the Falcons will ever trade Schaub, but if a team calls with a pick close to No. 15, they might sit up and listen. I wonder if teams like Minnesota, Houston or Miami would consider this idea?"


link: http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/10023456


Sounds like a good deal to me. Heck, how many of us would trade to pick No. 10 and do this deal?

Makes me wonder if we (A) Passed on the Snake and removed ourselves from the bidding, (B)"We're Happy With Carr", and (C) Oh, by the way: We're working out a deal for Schaub that nets us a QB and an extra pick.

We opted out of the Plummer bidding very quickly, IMO.

Is there something else "in the mix?"

Hmmmmm...........

You are right this deal is a way better deal than the one Denver was going to give us. I say why not! If people stop complaining about Qb's who are backups will always be a backup please....... Romo was a backup and look he how he did until that mess up on that brand new spanking football that was thrown too him...... :woot:

kiwitexansfan
02-26-2007, 05:07 PM
Schaub is the most intriguing alternate out there for Carr in my book. The only veteran I'd consider.

Not sure I'd want to pay the piper for him though, not with our other needs.

False Start
02-26-2007, 05:39 PM
Too much money . He seems like he can be good , but hasn't proven anything yet .

GP
02-26-2007, 06:12 PM
Schaub was the only guy I wanted if DC was on his way out.

He's a Romo waiting to happen.

He's played his cards right. Go and ask the Falcons fans what they think about him. I BET they say they prefer Schaub over Vick, but Vick is who the FO has banked on...I'll bet Falcons fans will say it's a mistake to let Schaub go.

I think it's the best deal, IMO.

dirty steve
02-26-2007, 06:21 PM
Schaub was the only guy I wanted if DC was on his way out.

He's a Romo waiting to happen.

He's played his cards right. Go and ask the Falcons fans what they think about him. I BET they say they prefer Schaub over Vick, but Vick is who the FO has banked on...I'll bet Falcons fans will say it's a mistake to let Schaub go.

I think it's the best deal, IMO.
what, a good half season? dude didnt exactly have the best second half. lets wait until this year before we go VY on him.

TexanSam
02-26-2007, 06:38 PM
Schaub was the only guy I wanted if DC was on his way out.

He's a Romo waiting to happen.

He's played his cards right. Go and ask the Falcons fans what they think about him. I BET they say they prefer Schaub over Vick, but Vick is who the FO has banked on...I'll bet Falcons fans will say it's a mistake to let Schaub go.

I think it's the best deal, IMO.

But what exactly has Schaub done to warrant giving so much up for him? The backup QB is always the favorite until he actually shows why he was the backup in the first place. The Texans have too many needs to trade multiple draft picks on a guy who has been a career backup.

bad
02-26-2007, 07:30 PM
The backup QB is always the favorite until he actually shows why he was the backup in the first place.
Man ain't it the truth.

Still, I think one of the reasons the Texans are staying with Carr (if they are) is the lack of alternatives. Schaub may not turn out to be another Warner or Bulger (backups who showed they deserved to start) but he's about the best we can hope to get outside of the draft, and I'm not sold on any of the college QBs outside of Russell and that's mostly because I don't want any other team to have him. I want Calvin Johnson too, for the same reason.

You also have to wonder if Schaub would even want to come here. The beatings Carr has taken here are stuff of legend. The one thing even Carr haters will admit is that the man can take a hit. Who in his right mind would want to inherit that legacy? Give that man The Chuck Wepner Award. Just throw it at his head instead of handing it to him. He can take it.

The fact that Carr isn't openly asking to be traded is amazing in itself. Heck, he could retire, he's made enough money.

Last year was the year to act. No disrespect intended towards Mario Williams but most of us can envision at least three better scenarios: Ditch Carr and draft Vince Young. Or Keep Carr and draft Reggie Bush. Or trade down because we are more than one superstar away from being a contending team. We did ourselves well in last year's draft but I still think we erred with our first pick.

Whether Carr stays or goes it is imperative that we address our offensive line and offense in general in this year's draft. Our next signal caller may not be as durable as Carr and then everyone will get to see Sage Rosenfels show why he was a backup in the first place.

-----------------------

http://www.rocketpillow.com/bs/img/bullfelix.gif

TwinSisters
02-26-2007, 07:44 PM
Our next signal caller may not be as durable as Carr and then everyone will get to see Sage Rosenfels show why he was a backup in the first place.


Just a small point here ( yes, I know it has been said 10,000 times before ):

Durability is not a benefit when you are throwing strings of games together with less than 200 yards of passing and losing. Steve DeBerg and Tony Banks could do that.

Being durable is only a desirable trait in really good QBs. So that you get more strings of games with 200 yards or more in passing and wins.

bad
02-26-2007, 08:59 PM
The one thing even Carr haters will admit is that the man can take a hit.

Durability is not a benefit when you are throwing strings of games together with less than 200 yards of passing and losing. Steve DeBerg and Tony Banks could do that.

I stand corrected.:thud:

Navy_Chris
02-26-2007, 09:57 PM
But what exactly has Schaub done to warrant giving so much up for him? The backup QB is always the favorite until he actually shows why he was the backup in the first place. The Texans have too many needs to trade multiple draft picks on a guy who has been a career backup.

you think so? the only reason Schaub isn't a starter somewhere yet is because Arthur Blank spends too much time being a fan of Michael Vick, rather than being an owner of the Falcons with the TEAM's best interests at heart. I think Schaub is an awesome QB with tons of potential.

Might I suggest a number change if he comes to Houston, though?

BattleRedToro
02-26-2007, 10:05 PM
The Texans can not afford to trade away multiple picks for a QB. They need every pick they have and then some to fill the plethora of holes on their team.

tulexan
02-26-2007, 10:05 PM
Schaub really knows the West Coast Offense since he has played in it since college, so there would not be as big of a learning curve for him.

GP
02-27-2007, 09:21 AM
Schaub really knows the West Coast Offense since he has played in it since college, so there would not be as big of a learning curve for him.

Yep.

I was going to say that, but I forgot to say it.

I dunno, it smells fishy that there was this big unveiling (by Rick Smith) of Carr having suitors for his services...and that Plummer was the guy all the analysts were saying was the QB for the Texans...and then all of a sudden it's no longer a topic.

And then the Kirwan article about Schaub happens. IIRC, the Falcons were not overly committed to the idea of letting Schaub go (until now). I THINK that they were going to hold onto him or even franchise him, but that Schaub was reported to having interests in being a starter somewhere.

It looks to me as though Plummer WAS the guy we were after, but now that Schaub has become available...the Texans let the Plummer ship sail so that we could go after Schaub.

And as far as the "We don't need a backup QB to be our starter" argument goes, almost every person here has stated that they had wished Carr had been sat on the bench for a few years so that he could have learned the game, not taken all those sacks, blah-blah-blah.

Well, here's a guy who's done just that.

But it's still not enough.

Picky, picky, picky...........(wags index finger in your direction)

Lucky
02-27-2007, 09:41 AM
Schaub is the most intriguing alternate out there for Carr in my book. The only veteran I'd consider.
Explain to me why a career 52% passer who can't outrun his shadow is a good fit for the Texans. I understand the Schaub hysteria in Atlanta, the backup QB is always the most overrated player on the team. I don't get why he's so popular among NFL fans. Schaub has done just a little more than squat in his 3 years.

GP
02-27-2007, 09:43 AM
Explain to me why a career 52% passer who can't outrun his shadow is a good fit for the Texans. I understand the Schaub hysteria in Atlanta, the backup QB is always the most overrated player on the team. I don't get why he's so popular among NFL fans. Schaub has done just a little more than squat in his 3 years.

I watched him play this last preseason, and although it was "just" preseason, he looked very sharp to me.

I personally think he's going to do well.

But that's just my opinion.

Lucky
02-27-2007, 09:51 AM
I watched him play this last preseason, and although it was "just" preseason, he looked very sharp to me.
So you would want the Texans to fork over their 1st rounder for a backup who looked good in preseason? OK, just asking.

srstex
02-27-2007, 09:52 AM
There's a story on the Rumor mill that has Carr and picks going to Cleveland so we can pick up AP. What about this trade ?

Lucky
02-27-2007, 09:57 AM
There's a story on the Rumor mill that has Carr and picks going to Cleveland so we can pick up AP. What about this trade ?

It was discussed in this thread (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=35656). Maybe consolidating all ridiculous trade rumors into one megathread would be a good idea?

petedy
02-27-2007, 10:33 AM
It was discussed in this thread (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=35656). Maybe consolidating all ridiculous trade rumors into one megathread would be a good idea?

You mean all this time I've been looking at several threads and not one big one with chapters 1 thru 25? It should read: Why I hate Carr book or The Lynching of David Carr.

GP
02-27-2007, 01:29 PM
So you would want the Texans to fork over their 1st rounder for a backup who looked good in preseason? OK, just asking.

Plummer is not a good choice. Period.

No QBs in this draft look good enough to warrant us drafting them unless they fell to us fairly deep into the draft (Kolb or Stanton).

Garcia had a fluke season in Philly and now wants outrageous money which caused Philly to go with Feeley.

Atlanta is almost a mirror image of Houston in that they have a QB that they have committed to (Vick) for the long haul. And when that happens, the other guy (Schaub) is not going to sniff any real playing time during the regular season unless Vick is hurt. Therefore, Schaub is doing the best he can do under the circumstances that are out of his control.

It's not my fault that I don't have regular season games (enough of them, at least) to put together a lot of stats and analysis on Schaub. That shouldn't penalize my opinion on the guy.

I go by what I see, and I see a guy who makes deep throws, over the middle throws, and can manage the huddle effectively when he's in there. I see a guy whom the Atlanta FO is asking a steep price because they know he's a good QB yet they have committed to a guy (Vick) who can get them more exposure and fan following than Schaub. They are making a business decision, not a football decision, when they go with Vick over Schaub.

Every year the Vick Is God mantra from the sports media, and even in the fantasy football world, is lessening on an exponential level. He had a pretty good defense behind him, a couple of solid running backs, a great TE, athletic WRs, and his glorious legs and feet that he can supposedly win championships upon...and he hasn't delivered.

That's what I call a "business decision" by retaining Vick for his marketability rather than for his ability to win them championships.

Everyone thought Romo was just a backup, another in the long lines of unknown Cowboys backups who hold the clipboard and watch from the sidelines. In reality, the COwboys knew what they had all along. Say what you want about his mess ups...he transformed that team from a sluggish oaf and into a team that can put up some points in a hurry....with TERRY GLENN at WR, for goodness sakes, and a butter-fingered overpaid cry baby team-wrecking T.O.

I'd take Schaub if we traded down from No. 8 to No. 15.

He's going to do well if he's put on the right team. I think our offense suits him well.

Lucky
02-27-2007, 01:52 PM
I'd take Schaub if we traded down from No. 8 to No. 15.

He's going to do well if he's put on the right team. I think our offense suits him well.
Let's not get into Plummer, Garcia, Romo, or any other QB. Let's stick to the discussion on Schaub. First, you have to define the requirements of a QB in a Kubiak offense. That QB needs to be mobile and have the ability to throw on the run. Schaub is a pocket passer whose feet are stuck in molasses. Plus, he doesn't have an accurate arm on the run. You can make a case that he doesn't have an accurate arm, period. But, the Falcon WRs aren't the league's best.

I don't blame the Falcons for asking a king's ransom for Schaub. Jacksonville parlayed some good preseason and spot performances from their backup QB back in the late '90's into a draft choice that netted Fred Taylor. The backup QB? Rob Johnson. So no, I don't think trading a 1st round pick (any 1st round pick) for Matt Schaub is a real good idea.

Vinny
02-27-2007, 01:53 PM
Let's not get into Plummer, Garcia, Romo, or any other QB. Let's stick to the discussion on Schaub. First, you have to define the requirements of a QB in a Kubiak offense. That QB needs to be mobile and have the ability to throw on the run. Schaub is a pocket passer whose feet are stuck in molasses. Plus, he doesn't have an accurate arm on the run. You can make a case that he doesn't have an accurate arm, period. But, the Falcon WRs aren't the league's best.

I don't blame the Falcons for asking a king's ransom for Schaub. Jacksonville parlayed some good preseason and spot performances from their backup QB back in the late '90's into a draft choice that netted Fred Taylor. The backup QB? Rob Johnson. So no, I don't think trading a 1st round pick (any 1st round pick) for Matt Schaub is a real good idea.Brett Favre was a backup when the Falcons traded him to the Packers....the rest is history. I don't think Schaub is an especially good fit here though.

TexanSam
02-27-2007, 02:18 PM
I watched him play this last preseason, and although it was "just" preseason, he looked very sharp to me.

I personally think he's going to do well.

But that's just my opinion.

You know who else was sharp in the preseason? Sage Rosenfels and Quinton Porter. For the most part, preseason statistics mean nothing. Hell, the Texans were 3-1 in the preseason.

GP
02-27-2007, 02:51 PM
Brett Favre was a backup when the Falcons traded him to the Packers....the rest is history. I don't think Schaub is an especially good fit here though.

And Kurt Warner was sacking groceries in some small town before he got a call. Won a championship, didn't he?

There's a few examples of guys who were touted as the big thing...and then bombed royally.

There's a few examples of some guys who were overlooked and thought to be backups-at-best...and then went on to change people's minds fairly quickly.

It can happen for Schaub. His greatest downfall is that he's stuck behind an icon...an icon who doesn't produce on the field, but he makes for a great marketing campaign.

Ryan Leaf is said to have been the biggest bust in history. I'd argue that Vick is working on being the biggest bust in history: he HAS the talent and hasn't produced squat as it relates to what makes a QB a true "gamer" whether it be playoff runs, championships, etc.

I would bet 75% of NFL fans do not even know what team Schaub plays for. I think that's less a sign of his abilities, and more a sign of the brilliant marketing that Atlanta has achieved with Vick at the QB helm. Vick consumes all the oxygen on that team as it relates to publicity and marketing, and as it relates to where that team has been and can GO.

He might not land here, but Schaub (IMO) will do well somewhere else. You guys wanted to give Rosenfels a shot, for pete's sake...but Schaub is awful?

Vinny
02-27-2007, 04:00 PM
I like what I see in Schaub...but he is a pocket guy....it's almost the same argument for not wanting Reggie Bush or drafting a 3-4 OLB when you are running a 4-3...some guys don't fit what you run. So, do you give a 1st round pick for a guy who really doesn't fit your system?

GP
02-27-2007, 04:46 PM
I like what I see in Schaub...but he is a pocket guy....it's almost the same argument for not wanting Reggie Bush or drafting a 3-4 OLB when you are running a 4-3...some guys don't fit what you run. So, do you give a 1st round pick for a guy who really doesn't fit your system?

I give a first round pick for a QB who hasn't been beaten to a pulp and therefore scared of pressure that might not be there.

I give a first round pick for a QB who has played sparingly but is now widely known to be seeking starting QB roles...and you don't just jump from being a backup to a starter without seeing it in yourself, hearing it from others who evaluate you and say that you can be a starter, etc. Schaub sat back and learned the ropes, and you have to have a shot at some point. Favre is a good example. Green Bay took a chance on him and it paid off.

I DON'T give anything at all for end-of-the-line QBs like Jake Plummer who appear (at least to me) as if he's about to run away and play with his toys all by himself if someone doesn't make him a starter.

I DON'T give anything at all for a guy like Garcia who sucked in Detroit, sucked in Cleveland, and then had a fluke season on a very good Philly team who had a great o line and EIGHT DLs to cycle in and out all game long and keep the opposing team's offense on the run, scared for their lives. He had a fluke season. Period. And that's why Philly said, "Go ahead and find your starting money, Jeff. Thanks for the memories..." He'll become very irreleveant when he lands on another sub-par team like he was on in Detroit and Cleveland. He's delusional.

The more I watch the NFL, the more I think a team does itself a tremendous disservice by immediately starting its drafted QBs...throwing them into the pool too early.

Nobody wants to see a star QB sit on the bench for 2 or 3 years...it disappoints the fan base of the team that does it--I know because I remember screaming at the TV for McNair to get the nod at QB, but to no avail. Even with Vince Young, they were smart to start Collins and show Vince that the spot was not automatically his just because he had been drafted at No. 3. So when he came onto the field, he knew he had to perform to keep it.

That never happened here. It was DC from day one. No competition, no accountability. But he had the internal knowledge of knowing that he would always be "the guy" as long as he was healthy and not injured. Maybe THAT explains why he takes beatings and keeps getting up: It's all he has to do to keep the job. Stay upright, and you're the starting QB. Nice. And maybe THAT is why the FO never drafts o linemen highly nor acquires the best OL it can each off season in free agency: Carr keeps getting up after all those sacks, so who cares?

If we stay with Carr, fine.

But if we go with someone else, I prefer Schaub at this point to the others who have been mentioned: Garcia and Plummer, to be exact.

He might be a pocket guy, but I have seen improvement this past season...there WAS a pocket there a lot more than the previous season. It's getting better. Albeit, it's a slow process, but it's getting better.

There's a lot worse we can do than having a guy who isn't able to create plays with his legs. Dilfer won a SB. Warner won a SB. I don't think anyone ever saw Phil Simms tearing it up on long QB scrambles. You can win without being a running QB. Peyton is slow as the day is long. Yeah, it'd be a shame to have a pocket passer....

falconsrock
02-27-2007, 10:09 PM
Since I am gay I don't care too much about the skills . Schaub may be a little better passer but I'd still rather spend the night with Vick .Ya feel what I'm saying

Mr. White
02-27-2007, 10:18 PM
I haven't read through this whole thread, but it looks like some news might have got by you guys today.

Falcons offer $2M to Schaub (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/02/26/0227schaub.html)

The Falcons plan to tender restricted free agent quarterback Matt Schaub a one-year qualifying offer of more than $2 million Tuesday, a person with knowledge of the situation told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Monday. Included in that tender is the requirement that if another team signs the highly regarded backup it must compensate the Falcons with first- and third-round draft picks.

Schaub's good, but he's not worth a 1st and 3rd. At least not to the Texans.

GP
02-27-2007, 11:08 PM
Hmmm....gotta look this over. Thanks for the info.

New_Texans
02-27-2007, 11:42 PM
Um, no. A 1st and a 3rd pick for Schaub?


Thats LaRon Landry and a potential O-lineman gone.

tulexan
02-27-2007, 11:44 PM
I haven't read through this whole thread, but it looks like some news might have got by you guys today.

Falcons offer $2M to Schaub (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/02/26/0227schaub.html)



Schaub's good, but he's not worth a 1st and 3rd. At least not to the Texans.

You can negotiate a deal. You don't have to give up a 1st and a 3rd.

HuttoKarl
02-28-2007, 10:03 AM
"According to the St Paul Pioneer Press the Vikings will offer a second round pick and possibly Brad Johnson to the Falcons for Quarterback Matt Schaub.

If the Vikings make this offer, the Falcons would have to give it serious consideration. A high 2nd round pick would be great value for Schaub."

From www.footballsfuture.com

tulexan
02-28-2007, 10:08 AM
I like what I see in Schaub...but he is a pocket guy....it's almost the same argument for not wanting Reggie Bush or drafting a 3-4 OLB when you are running a 4-3...some guys don't fit what you run. So, do you give a 1st round pick for a guy who really doesn't fit your system?

Schaub may be a pocket guy, but he has ran the west coast offense with success, so I think he will be alright.