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kastofsna
02-26-2007, 12:38 PM
In the minds of many evaluators, including PFW resident draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki, there is a considerable gap between QBs JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn.

The way we hear it, it is Quinn, not Russell, who Nawrocki and a growing contingent of teams think will be the better pro. And perhaps to the surprise of many draft fans, more of the teams we consulted had finished their pre-Combine draft meetings thinking Quinn would be the better pro.

Multiple teams that have begun digging into Russell's background have been turned off by his lazy work habits and immaturity. When he took off his shirt at the Combine weigh-ins and exposed a very soft, fleshy body filled with baby fat, the concerns immediately heightened for one top-10 team that PFW spoke with, revealing what some consider to be the tip of the iceberg.

Much like Vince Young a year ago, whose poor Wonderlic test result was leaked and wound up setting in motion a lot of questions about how far he would fall, the significance of Russell's unshapely physique may be way overblown.

Our sources say Oakland’s Al Davis, who holds the top pick, is still chafed he decided not to take Matt Leinart a year ago and is dead-set on finding a signalcaller of the future to replace the recently released Aaron Brooks, whose option was not exercised after one year with the team.

Davis is widely assumed to favor the more strong-armed Russell, who better fits the vertical offense the Raiders have long run. However, had Davis made the call a year ago, our sources say he would have selected the more cerebral, NFL-ready Leinart, not the more strong-armed Jay Cutler, whom the Broncos traded up to select one pick later.

Said one astute, high-ranking evaluator, whose team has no need for a quarterback, of the draft's top two quarterbacks: “Physically, arm-strength-wise, there is no question who has the advantage. But if you want to talk about mental aptitude, ability to escape pressure and make good decisions, it's not even close. There is a big ‘miss’ factor on Russell. He had a lot of up-and-down games, and he makes a lot of bad decisions. He's sitting in the middle of the second round right now on our board. He'll never make it that far, but that’s where his value is. After Quinn, I would be sweating if I needed a quarterback from the rest of this crop.”

If Davis fails to land a veteran passer such as Houston’s David Carr, who has been thrown on the trading block after his struggles last year, or Byron Leftwich, who may be dealt despite Jack Del Rio’s statement that he is the Jaguars’ starter for 2007, don't be surprised if Quinn, not Russell, winds up becoming the first overall pick. Davis could be among those who are scared off by the red flags surrounding Russell and thus opt for Quinn. That could leave Russell, despite the concerns, falling only, like Young, to the No. 3 spot, where fellow Mobile, Ala., native and Browns GM Phil Savage would be waiting with open arms, the way we hear it.

Sources close to the Browns have even speculated that Savage, who helped advise Russell on his decision to enter the draft, has already informed Russell that he would not fall any further than the spot where the Browns were picking, and that he would be a lock top-four pick.
from PFW

HuttoKarl
02-26-2007, 12:55 PM
Dear sweet baby Jesus...let the Raiders take Calvin or Quinn and let Cleve-land go with Russell. Please sweet baby Jesus let Peterson fall to the Texans.

Amen.

Silver Oak
02-26-2007, 12:56 PM
His softness would worry me too. Now he's probably made the rounds on the award circuit so his diet and workout have probably suffered, but knowing that the biggest interview of your life was coming up and not working out hard beforehand?

Wonder what his study habits would be like in the NFL?

TEXANRED
02-26-2007, 01:22 PM
Dear sweet baby Jesus...let the Raiders take Calvin or Quinn and let Cleve-land go with Russell. Please sweet baby Jesus let Peterson fall to the Texans.

Amen.

It would be about time for the Texans to catch a break.

David's Busted Carr
02-26-2007, 01:33 PM
Another negative I see with Russell is his arrogance. If you saw him walking around at the combine you would think he owned the place, and he didn't do anything. He acts like he's got the #1 pick in the bag, and isn't that just what the Raiders need... another cocky player.

Good luck Lane Kiffin (a coach younger than alot of players on the team) trying to control the egos of Russell, Moss, & Porter... WOW! No pressure there for the youngest coach in the NFL...

real
02-26-2007, 01:48 PM
Another negative I see with Russell is his arrogance. If you saw him walking around at the combine you would think he owned the place, and he didn't do anything. He acts like he's got the #1 pick in the bag, and isn't that just what the Raiders need... another cocky player.

Good luck Lane Kiffin (a coach younger than alot of players on the team) trying to control the egos of Russell, Moss, & Porter... WOW! No pressure there for the youngest coach in the NFL...

I noticed he looked pretty arrogant as well...



I don't know if that has any affect on his on field performance though...

tulexan
02-26-2007, 01:51 PM
His softness would worry me too. Now he's probably made the rounds on the award circuit so his diet and workout have probably suffered, but knowing that the biggest interview of your life was coming up and not working out hard beforehand?

Wonder what his study habits would be like in the NFL?

What awards did he win?

David's Busted Carr
02-26-2007, 01:52 PM
I noticed he looked pretty arrogant as well...



I don't know if that has any affect on his on field performance though...


Well as far as scouting goes that falls under "coachability", something that all teams do take into strong consideration....

Stros5Texans80
02-26-2007, 02:12 PM
I never really felt for Russell. When you take away his arm, there's not really anything else you could look at that stands out big. I wonder what he got on his Wonderlic....

trutxn
02-26-2007, 02:58 PM
Dear sweet baby Jesus...let the Raiders take Calvin or Quinn and let Cleve-land go with Russell. Please sweet baby Jesus let Peterson fall to the Texans.

Amen.

Am I on fire?

run-david-run
02-26-2007, 03:27 PM
What awards did he win?

The ESPN hype award...where have you been?

Meloy
02-26-2007, 03:36 PM
from PFWExcellent! Best news I've heard today. Quinn goes to Oakland and Russell to Cleveland leaving that scrawny old Adrian Peterson for Mr McNair to make a millionairre. Hooray! We get our franchise back and Bush slowly fades to just another memory.....

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2007, 06:47 PM
That's what i've been thinking. Russell has such a long way to go before he becomes a great quarterback. That was interesting reading that one team has him as a mid second.

He sure has a big upside but with that comes a lot of risk. of all the top ten rated players I have Russell as the biggest bust factor...maybe next to Ginn.

He could be a great fit for oakland with that big arm of his and they need a qb, but that's all it is...a need pick for them...they should go with calvin johnson or even joe thomas. i'd suggest them trading down but that will be very difficult. al davis doesnt want to take a qb or lt again at 1. everyone's been saying he's gonna take russell but that pick is way overvalued for russell.

personally i'd rather quinn than russell for the texans. but russell would intrigue me if he fell to us. i'd just rather us not spend our 1st on a qb.

mexican_texan
02-26-2007, 07:44 PM
Speaking of winning the big one (or not), Quinn, by my very unofficial count, was 2-8 in the Very Big Ones at Notre Dame: 2-1 versus Michigan, 0-4 against USC, 0-3 in bowl games. Not good. But let's not slay Quinn over it just yet. In those eight losses, Notre Dame allowed 47, 44, 41, 34, 34, 41, 38 and 45 points.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/26/indy/3.html


From Peter King's MMQB. I don't expect Quinn, AP, or Levi Brown to last until the 8th pick, but would love to have any of the three.

kastofsna
02-26-2007, 07:45 PM
those scores say it all, MT. hard to win those "big games" when your defense allows 40.5 points per game.

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-26-2007, 08:30 PM
Yeah go to tell Vince Young that his mental aptitude matters.

kastofsna
02-26-2007, 08:32 PM
Yeah go to tell Vince Young that his mental aptitude matters.
i would but i doubt he'd understand the word "aptitude."

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-26-2007, 08:36 PM
i would but i doubt he'd understand the word "aptitude."

Yeah, too bad that the NFL administers spelling tests and physics exams to determine the winner of every game. I heard the Super Bowl is chosen by which team can solve the Good Will Hunting math problem the fastest.

kastofsna
02-26-2007, 08:37 PM
it's also too bad you need to be able to pass the ball to win a super bowl. sucks...

run-david-run
02-26-2007, 08:39 PM
it's also too bad you need to be able to pass the ball to win a super bowl. sucks...

hater...lol

aj.
02-26-2007, 08:48 PM
The only thing that bothered me yesterday was his answer to a question during an interview when the interviewer asked (basically) "you weighed in at 265, isn't that a little high?"

JR answered that he was "surprised" that he weighed that much and that his playing weight was going to be 250 something so it's not a big deal.

How the H can you be "surprised" about what you weigh, when you know you are going to get on a scale at the combine in the most scrutinized minute of the most scrutinized two months of your life?

If millions are on the line, I know exactly what I weigh at every minute of every day - and I have good justification for any gains or losses. "I was surprised" doesn't sit well with me for some reason.

It could be construed as arrogance (since he may be able to drop 10 in a minute and keep it off) or laziness...

But I wonder about a kid - a QB no less- who's that young and already tips the scale at 265 before he gets his $16 million signing bonus. Sure, he can see over mountains and throw it 80 but when I saw him shirtless, I was wondering whether this guy can keep his weight under control and stay healthy and mobile and keep the fire in his belly burning for more than a couple of years..

Yeah, I know ... a bigger version of Culpepper...

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-26-2007, 09:16 PM
it's also too bad you need to be able to pass the ball to win a super bowl. sucks...

After Vince wins a ring, I'm going to run this post into the ground. You're going to wish you never said it. Makes you sound ignorant and you lose credibility when you say things like this.

Trap_Star
02-26-2007, 09:26 PM
Another negative I see with Russell is his arrogance. If you saw him walking around at the combine you would think he owned the place, and he didn't do anything. He acts like he's got the #1 pick in the bag, and isn't that just what the Raiders need... another cocky player.

Good luck Lane Kiffin (a coach younger than alot of players on the team) trying to control the egos of Russell, Moss, & Porter... WOW! No pressure there for the youngest coach in the NFL...
I would too if i knew 26+ million guaranteed were coming my way...:marionaner:

He'll have the scouts drooling again after his proday...
it's also too bad you need to be able to pass the ball to win a super bowl. sucks...

signed,
ben rothlisberger

kastofsna
02-26-2007, 09:40 PM
After Vince wins a ring, I'm going to run this post into the ground. You're going to wish you never said it. Makes you sound ignorant and you lose credibility when you say things like this.
after joey harrington wins 4 super bowl MVPs i'm going to wake up and stop dreaming.

Silver Oak
02-26-2007, 10:35 PM
After Vince wins a ring, I'm going to run this post into the ground.


:pigfly:

Hottoddie
02-26-2007, 11:31 PM
After Vince wins a ring, I'm going to run this post into the ground. You're going to wish you never said it. Makes you sound ignorant and you lose credibility when you say things like this.

Since when did the truth cost someone credibility & make them sound ignorant?

Luv Ya Blue 2007
02-27-2007, 12:26 AM
i would but i doubt he'd understand the word "aptitude."

Maybe not Kast, but he understands a few things better than us. Here are a few ex.:
Win football games, probably winning in general
don't ever quit (ie. Rose Bowl)
How to spend Millions with a terrible wonderwic score


No need to crack on VY.

Navy_Chris
02-27-2007, 12:31 AM
Maybe not Kast, but he understands a few things better than us. Here are a few ex.:
Win football games, probably winning in general
don't ever quit (ie. Rose Bowl)
How to spend Millions with a terrible wonderwic score


No need to crack on VY.

This happens every year when there's a pre-draft favorite at #1. Everybody always tries to find something wrong with him. It's just human nature. Russell will go #1. He'll go into his Pro Day weighing 255, 260 and everything will be just fine. He'll go to Oakland, get hammered by opposing defenses, and people will think it's JaMarcus's fault for some reason.

They just moved a BACKUP guard to starting Left Tackle. a little premature, don't ya think? Is Gallery going to be better at RT than he was at LT. only time will tell.

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2007, 08:17 AM
let's hope gallery becomes a better rt than he was at lt. lol

i also say some of those losses in big games of quinn's, i don't put on him. While I don't watch him very much, I have watched a few.

The 2005 game against USC comes to mind. IMO Notre Dame should have won the game. They would have but leinart had a miraculous drive leading down the field with a minute and a half left. completed one huge pass to jarrett when he was well covered. the defense almost stopped them but we all remmember the bush push.

Now I know you all are gonna say, ooh wow so 1 game..he still has all those losses! I say very true but that his defense lost a lot of the games and that not all those losses you can point on quinn. the arguement that if your a great qb you should know how to win no matter what doesn't always hold water.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 08:44 AM
This happens every year when there's a pre-draft favorite at #1. Everybody always tries to find something wrong with him. It's just human nature. Russell will go #1. He'll go into his Pro Day weighing 255, 260 and everything will be just fine. He'll go to Oakland, get hammered by opposing defenses, and people will think it's JaMarcus's fault for some reason.
yeah, but it's really easy to find stuff wrong with russell. he's just a hyped-up #1, there's no substance there. the raiders won't draft him.

HuttoKarl
02-27-2007, 09:33 AM
I keep hearing word of Russell's less than stellar work ethic. That can't be good. I say Oakland takes Calvin, trades either Moss or Porter for a mid-round pick (3 or 4 depending on which WR goes) and gets a QB like Stanton. Hell...maybe they'll trade for Plummer and we won't have to hear about Jake anymore.

Huge
02-27-2007, 10:27 AM
Russell has always impressed with his physical abilities but not much else. But what has Quinn done?

After Quinn, I would be sweating if I needed a quarterback from the rest of this crop.
I'd be sweating if I needed any of the QBs from this crop.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 10:31 AM
Russell has always impressed with his physical abilities but not much else. But what has Quinn done?
quite a bit.

Vinny
02-27-2007, 10:34 AM
probably just a coincidence but why is it the highly rated black QB is always the whipping boy here every draft? Dude throws for 70% of his passes, throws for multiple td's in big games, is in a big time College program and out duels his white rival straight up and he ends up the slacker of the crop.

Huge
02-27-2007, 10:36 AM
quite a bit.

Like what?

I mean other than be the starting QB for Notre Dame and play under Charlie Weiss (apparently that counts for something).

trublu
02-27-2007, 11:17 AM
probably just a coincidence but why is it the highly rated black QB is always the whipping boy here every draft? Dude throws for 70% of his passes, throws for multiple td's in big games, is in a big time College program and out duels his white rival straight up and he ends up the slacker of the crop.

Wow, it took all of two pages for someone to throw in the race card. I think that may be a record.

texans83
02-27-2007, 11:22 AM
probably just a coincidence but why is it the highly rated black QB is always the whipping boy here every draft? Dude throws for 70% of his passes, throws for multiple td's in big games, is in a big time College program and out duels his white rival straight up and he ends up the slacker of the crop.

there is no need to start saying black vs. white. That has nothing to do with anything. he might complete 70% of his passes but he also makes very bad descisions. I bet he getts in the NFL and just think he is the $**t and not care about anything except the $$$$$

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 11:30 AM
probably just a coincidence but why is it the highly rated black QB is always the whipping boy here every draft? Dude throws for 70% of his passes, throws for multiple td's in big games, is in a big time College program and out duels his white rival straight up and he ends up the slacker of the crop.
good point, except you're completely wrong. quinn is the whipping boy of this draft. russell is getting a free pass from most, for some reason.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 11:31 AM
Like what?

I mean other than be the starting QB for Notre Dame and play under Charlie Weiss (apparently that counts for something).
you're too smart for this silly of a stance. this is something dumb people say. DERRR HE DIDNT BEAT USC SO HE SUCKS LOL OWNED

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-27-2007, 01:04 PM
good point, except you're completely wrong. quinn is the whipping boy of this draft. russell is getting a free pass from most, for some reason.

You mean Brady "I played the Naval Academies, North Carolina, and Stanford" Quinn

Give me a break. If Brady Quinn played in the SEC he would be very average. And he may still be very average playing at Notre Dame.

Vinny
02-27-2007, 01:06 PM
Wow, it took all of two pages for someone to throw in the race card. I think that may be a record.
I'm not as pc as you I guess.. I just state what I see, and I've been here a while. I don't see any Quinn backlash threads...Didn't see anyone picked apart last year except the highly rated black guy.....just found it kinda ironic. I'm not black so I don't really think of myself as using "the race card" on this...just an observation.

real
02-27-2007, 01:10 PM
probably just a coincidence but why is it the highly rated black QB is always the whipping boy here every draft? Dude throws for 70% of his passes, throws for multiple td's in big games, is in a big time College program and out duels his white rival straight up and he ends up the slacker of the crop.


Wow...

Good post.

Huge
02-27-2007, 01:11 PM
you're too smart for this silly of a stance. this is something dumb people say. DERRR HE DIDNT BEAT USC SO HE SUCKS LOL OWNED
You're right...he didn't beat USC. Or any other team that finished the season ranked among the top 25 for the past two seasons.

Quinn is every bit as overrated as the Notre Dame teams he played on.

Hottoddie
02-27-2007, 01:53 PM
I keep hearing word of Russell's less than stellar work ethic. That can't be good. I say Oakland takes Calvin, trades either Moss or Porter for a mid-round pick (3 or 4 depending on which WR goes) and gets a QB like Stanton. Hell...maybe they'll trade for Plummer and we won't have to hear about Jake anymore.

I have the solution. We trade Carr for Porter. They take Calvin & we take Russell. :stirpot:

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 01:54 PM
if only he and those terrible he has receivers could put up 41 points per game against those teams. then they would've won. by an average of one point per game.

when your defense is as bad as notre dame's, you're not beating any good teams.

travfrancis
02-27-2007, 02:00 PM
it's also too bad you need to be able to pass the ball to win a super bowl. sucks...

kastofsna is really going down with the ship on this one.

Champ
02-27-2007, 02:06 PM
Russell and his Uncle laughing at the supposed "backlash" here in this SI.com article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/27/combine0305/index.html

texans83
02-27-2007, 02:25 PM
Russell and his Uncle laughing at the supposed "backlash" here in this SI.com article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/27/combine0305/index.html

good post!!!! well the upside in both of these guys is that they both are hungry, they both think they are the best but I think Quinn wants it more just by reading the article, I think players would follow him more or be more of a team guy. JM just seems like he dosent really care that he just wants the check you know.

Champ
02-27-2007, 02:29 PM
"Yeah," said JaMarcus, shaking his head slightly, hands thrust in the pockets of his new NFL jacket. "I don't love football. We'll see about that."

El Tejano
02-27-2007, 02:30 PM
Brady has had some come from behind wins. Doesn't that say something?

Meloy
02-27-2007, 02:44 PM
Don't know about you guys but I am really hoping that Quinn and Russell go at 1st & 3rd picks. That might allow AP to drop to us. Otherwise I could not care less about these two QBs.

texans83
02-27-2007, 02:46 PM
Don't know about you guys but I am really hoping that Quinn and Russell go at 1st & 3rd picks. That might allow AP to drop to us. Otherwise I could not care less about these two QBs.

yea we are all hoping for that but this thread is about the two qbs

trublu
02-27-2007, 03:01 PM
I'm not as pc as you I guess.. I just state what I see, and I've been here a while. I don't see any Quinn backlash threads...Didn't see anyone picked apart last year except the highly rated black guy.....just found it kinda ironic. I'm not black so I don't really think of myself as using "the race card" on this...just an observation.

Really? You haven't seen the "pretty boy" post or the "can't win the big game" arguement on this message board. The media has Quinn falling out of the top 10. Last year the knock on Lienart was his lack of mobility and arm strength.

By the way, when Manning was coming out of Tennessee the knock on him was his "happy feet" and the "he can't win the big game" arguement. How did that turn out for him?

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 03:49 PM
You mean Brady "I played the Naval Academies, North Carolina, and Stanford" Quinn

Give me a break. If Brady Quinn played in the SEC he would be very average. And he may still be very average playing at Notre Dame.
as dumb as that opinion it is, it speaks to the point i was trying to make. so thanks.

Vinny
02-27-2007, 03:52 PM
Really? You haven't seen the "pretty boy" post or the "can't win the big game" arguement on this message board. The media has Quinn falling out of the top 10. Last year the knock on Lienart was his lack of mobility and arm strength.

By the way, when Manning was coming out of Tennessee the knock on him was his "happy feet" and the "he can't win the big game" arguement. How did that turn out for him?all the players get knocked about something...but that's not what I'm talking about. All the QB's didn't endure what Young did last year here on this board and you can't begin to compare that Leinart took the abuse that Young did last year...not even close...and some of the stupid things I've seen on Russell this year has been...well, stupid (not talking about in this thread...just in general). It's like some of you guys don't watch any games...just repeat ridiculous assertions.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 03:55 PM
all the players get knocked about something...but that's not what I'm talking about. All the QB's didn't endure what Young did last year here on this board and you can't begin to compare that Leinart took the abuse that Young did last year...not even close...and some of the stupid things I've seen on Russell this year has been...well, stupid (not talking about in this thread...just in general). It's like some of you guys don't watch any games...just repeat ridiculous assertions.
leinart was never an option for houston, so no one here talked about him at all. however, the national media and scouts had plenty of negatives to bring out about both players. it's just the way it is. nothing about race.

what has been said about russell that is "stupid" exactly?

Vinny
02-27-2007, 03:57 PM
leinart was never an option for houston, so no one here talked about him at all. however, the national media and scouts had plenty of negatives to bring out about both players. it's just the way it is. nothing about race.

what has been said about russell that is "stupid" exactly?You lead the pack on this and were one of the biggest loudmouth Young bashers last year leading into the draft. Plenty of people talked about Leinart last year but he didn't have near the abuse that Young took.....and I know...I read almost all this crap since I have to.

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2007, 03:58 PM
You mean Brady "I played the Naval Academies, North Carolina, and Stanford" Quinn

Give me a break. If Brady Quinn played in the SEC he would be very average. And he may still be very average playing at Notre Dame.

I would have loved to see Brady Quinn playing at LSU. I would disagree with you to think he would have played the same. LSU has an incredible game and is what kept LSU in most of the games they played and some of the ones they won.

One thing quinn didn't have at ND is an elite defense like LSU, and when you play some of the big schools like Mich, USC. etc...you're going to need that if you want to have a chance.

Lets look at the big games people talk about that quinn "lost" last year.
-Michigan- ND's defense allowed 47 pts.
-USC-ND's defense allowed 44 pts.
-LSU-ND's defense allowed 41 pts.

nobody is going to win those big games when the opponent scores that much consistently.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 04:00 PM
my apologies for all of my valid concerns on these players.

waiting for what stupid thing was said about jachokeus.

Navy_Chris
02-27-2007, 04:02 PM
yeah, but it's really easy to find stuff wrong with russell. he's just a hyped-up #1, there's no substance there. the raiders won't draft him.

If I were Al Davis (which i'm glad i'm not), I'd try my hardest to trade down. They have TOO many holes to fill.

mexican_texan
02-27-2007, 05:14 PM
probably just a coincidence but why is it the highly rated black QB is always the whipping boy here every draft? Dude throws for 70% of his passes, throws for multiple td's in big games, is in a big time College program and out duels his white rival straight up and he ends up the slacker of the crop.
That happens to every player. Maybe you just notice the black players over the white players more.

mexican_texan
02-27-2007, 05:16 PM
all the players get knocked about something...but that's not what I'm talking about. All the QB's didn't endure what Young did last year here on this board and you can't begin to compare that Leinart took the abuse that Young did last year...not even close...and some of the stupid things I've seen on Russell this year has been...well, stupid (not talking about in this thread...just in general). It's like some of you guys don't watch any games...just repeat ridiculous assertions.
That has a lot to do with where he went to school. Aggies hate on him because he's from UT and I hate on him because he left, mostly, and because he's with a rival.

Ole Miss Texan
02-27-2007, 08:58 PM
russell and young are completely different prospects. i know thats not what your getting at at all though. you are right to an extent though. i gave young a hard time cuz i'm more of an aggie fan, and i'm an ole miss fan and russell went to LSWho? jk

I like some of the things from both QB's though. Young i was never high on before the draft and will be the first to admit he completely blew me away last year. i didn't think he'd make that big of an impact that early, but i was right about his arm.. he isn't the passer one would want....the reason he won his games were because of his legs...picking up key first downs and td's. thats not a bad thing though..it works now so he'll use it, we'll just see how long that lasts. hopefully he has a good career but not against us.

Russell on the other hand has an incredible arm and huge size. everyone knows his arm strength. he's also a very smart guy and could be a coach some day. with that said he makes a lot of very dumb decisions and its only going to magnify his problem in the nfl. he is fairly mobile...for his size...he can dodge a few tackles and is strong enough to get the throw off, but he really needs to work on his accuracy, work on his weight imo and decision making. that's going to be hard to do if he has to go in and start right away with no line....see oakland raiders.

run-david-run
02-27-2007, 11:13 PM
I'm not as pc as you I guess.. I just state what I see, and I've been here a while. I don't see any Quinn backlash threads...Didn't see anyone picked apart last year except the highly rated black guy.....just found it kinda ironic. I'm not black so I don't really think of myself as using "the race card" on this...just an observation.

I think Brady Quinn has taken a substantial hit to his "stock" as well, while the highly rated white guy last year fell 7 spots from where he was projected...just saying.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 11:14 PM
That happens to every player. Maybe you just notice the black players over the white players more.
lol that's clearly the case if he thinks young was the only QB getting nitpicked last year. selective reading to state it lightly.

run-david-run
02-27-2007, 11:19 PM
lol that's clearly the case if he thinks young was the only QB getting nitpicked last year. selective reading to state it lightly.

There is no way you can deny Young took more abuse then any other player. From the Wonderlic fiasco, to his throwing motion, the claim that he was dumb and needed a simple playbook, and of course the Aggie haters. Look how that turned out...in the short term at least.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 11:32 PM
and as i said before, he took the criticism because A) he warranted it, and B) he was the only QB who was an option for houston.

Vinny
02-28-2007, 01:04 AM
I think Brady Quinn has taken a substantial hit to his "stock" as well, while the highly rated white guy last year fell 7 spots from where he was projected...just saying.Fell from what? Mocks? just think of the word "mock" for a minute. Quinn hasn't taken a hit...NOBODY has taken a hit because the draft hasn't happened yet.

I'm not talking about where they actually landed in the draft...I'm talking about tearing down players with mindless accusations and ugly banter and personal attacks. Some of you guys just need stuff spelled out I guess.

Second Honeymoon
02-28-2007, 01:14 AM
Fell from what? Mocks? just think of the word "mock" for a minute. Quinn hasn't taken a hit...NOBODY has taken a hit because the draft hasn't happened yet.

I'm not talking about where they actually landed in the draft...I'm talking about tearing down players with mindless accusations and ugly banter and personal attacks. Some of you guys just need stuff spelled out I guess.

Things will start weeding themselves out over the next few weeks. I am not completely convinced the Raiders will be taking Russell at #1. I think there is a damn good chance they take Petersen, Johnson, or Quinn by the time draft day rolls around.

One thing is for sure, Al Davis won't let stuff like signability get in the way of his decision. AD is a lot of things but with him the bottom line always has and always will be purely football.

swtbound07
02-28-2007, 01:18 AM
and as i said before, he took the criticism because A) he warranted it, and B) he was the only QB who was an option for houston.

Like it or not, Vinny has a point. The black qb in the draft goes through hell in these parts, while his white counterpart skates through. We had vince young suit threads, and hardly a peep about matt leinarts child out of wedlock. Russell is getting the treatment, and your trying to deny it and gloss over it. Its dumb. Its not Brady Quinn level dumb, but its still dumb.

Honor
02-28-2007, 01:39 AM
Quinn better than Russell? How about you put Quinn in the SEC and hes not even in the top 5. I quess they think the SEC is the slowest not the fastest conference. Right. Just look at the players who came out of LSU. Russell is not going to be a bust. Addai, DD/williams, a bunch of defensive players, now Bowe Landry and Russell, Sure maybe he should have stayed another year to get even better but who can blame the guy when most guys who have a great Junior year come out.

Biggest hype award? This guy was not on any guys list until they pounded ND.Last time i checked he wasnt even considerd a HC until what maybe the last 2 or 3 games. ESPN says it alot them time. He just came out of nowhere. No they just had there heads so far up Quinns ass is wasnt funny. enough of my ranting for now.

Ole Miss Texan
02-28-2007, 02:41 AM
Quinn better than Russell? How about you put Quinn in the SEC and hes not even in the top 5. I quess they think the SEC is the slowest not the fastest conference. Right. Just look at the players who came out of LSU. Russell is not going to be a bust. Addai, DD/williams, a bunch of defensive players, now Bowe Landry and Russell, Sure maybe he should have stayed another year to get even better but who can blame the guy when most guys who have a great Junior year come out.

Biggest hype award? This guy was not on any guys list until they pounded ND.Last time i checked he wasnt even considerd a HC until what maybe the last 2 or 3 games. ESPN says it alot them time. He just came out of nowhere. No they just had there heads so far up Quinns ass is wasnt funny. enough of my ranting for now.

Jamarcus Russell is a very smart football player.

It is very unfair to say quinn would be nothing if put in the SEC. I would have to disagree. put him on ANY sec team and he would be one of the best QBs in the entire nation. to say other wise would be rediculous.

Eli Manning was one of the best quarterbacks in the nation on ole miss. he should have won the heisman but jason white stole it away from him beacuse oklahoma had such a talented team. put brady quinn on any team on the SEC and they would instantly be national contendors. Moreso than LSU, FLorida, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc.

don't be too over presumptuous to say quinn is overrated before you say he couldnt do #$#$@ in the SEC. I know before ANYONE he'd be better than 11/12 of the quarterbacks in the sec. don't over exhagerate stuff just because you don't like him.

aj.
02-28-2007, 03:05 AM
probably just a coincidence but why is it the highly rated black QB is always the whipping boy here every draft? Dude throws for 70% of his passes, throws for multiple td's in big games, is in a big time College program and out duels his white rival straight up and he ends up the slacker of the crop.


I'm not talking about where they actually landed in the draft...I'm talking about tearing down players with mindless accusations and ugly banter and personal attacks. Some of you guys just need stuff spelled out I guess.


Allow me to spell a few things out.

I wasn't thinking race at all until you brought it up. I see JR as a QB, not a black QB. But since I posted a criticism of the guy in here ... omg....I guess I need to explain.

I found it a bit odd that a QB (not a black QB) who is a consensus #1 pick in the draft could be "surprised" at what he weighed at the combine. Will that matter on draft day? Probably not. It just caught my attention. But not anywhere near the scale of Quinn getting crushed by LSU catching my attention.

I have voiced far harsher criticism of Quinn than Russell. In fact, I think my "he looked a little flabby at the weigh in" comment is about the only thing I've ever said negative about Russell.

I watch a 'ton' of SEC football too - LSU happens to be one of the teams I watch the most - and I am truly excited about the prospect of watching JR play at the next level.

It's well known that I wanted Vince in here last year.

So, instead of another general comment to "you guys," (which I guess could include authors of any or all of the 33 posts prior to your whipping boy comment) I would like to ask that you address the person in particular that you have a problem with instead of throwing everyone under the virtual racist bus, including those of us who posted a legit criticism of a player without regard to his race.

Ole Miss Texan
02-28-2007, 03:47 AM
and as i've said before,you are as dumb as toast, and couldn't draft your way out of a paper bag. Like it or not, Vinny has a point. The black qb in the draft goes through hell in these parts, while his white counterpart skates through. We had vince young suit threads, and hardly a peep about matt leinarts child out of wedlock. Russell is getting the treatment, and your trying to deny it and gloss over it. Its dumb. Its not Brady Quinn level dumb, but its still dumb.

Okay, I don't know where to start. Who is dumb as toast and why? Why couldn't he draft his way out of a paper bag? Vinny does have a point on a lot of things, I respect him on a lot of points he makes, but what is it your talking about?

sure maybe the black quarterback does go through hell. but i'm tired of hell of making it black and white GDAMNIT. Russell has his faults just like Vince has his. Quinn has his faults just like Leinart had his. You know what....why don't y'all look at it this way.

Quinn is a senior...has been locked at as the favorite quarterback for some time. Russell is a junior and declared early....thus forcing some competition on quinn and many people feel very differently about each player...including russell who younger and may demand more criticism, not because he's black but because he's an underclassman.

Leinart was a senior...had been locked as the favorite quarterback for some time. young was a junior and declared early...thus forcing some competition on leinart and many people felt very differently about each player...including young who way younger and might have demanded more criticism, not because he was black but because he was an underclassman.

I understand pulling the race card sometimes...but other times it just pisses me off like none other. I don't understand why people (white or black) do that #$#%. It makes me madder than anything in the entire world.

I don't understand why people bring that #$%^ up. I am white, I will admit it, I don't give a flying flip. vince young, jamarcus russell are better than a lot of white quarterbacks. there i said it...is that so bad? There are a lot of white quarterbacks that are better than black quarterbacks. so i said that...sue me. kick me off. i don't care...i'm not being racist. im telling it like it is....

joe montana (white) has been a better pro QB than Aaron Brooks (black).
donovan mcnabb (black) has been a better pro QB than Rex Grossman (white).

who really care....i'd take McNabb in a heart beat and he's black...and omg believe it or not...i'm a white guy! wow!!

i have legitimate criticisms about both young and russell. not because they are black but beacuse they are both .....Younger(underclassmen/juniors) and quarterbacks in the NCAA!!!!

I also have legitimate criticisms about both Leinart, Cutler, and Quinn...they are all seniors...and also quarterbacks!!!!

aahhhh the chaos. jesus christos. senores.

beerlover
02-28-2007, 03:51 AM
hey this is my first post on this thread so I guess that rules me out :heh:

actually I only veiwed because I saw AJ post (love reading your candid on the mark comments).

here is my criticism of JaMarcus- consistancy. something we know Kubiak has been harping on. I love the fact he stepped up & played great when it counted but where was that performance all season long? then to suddenly assume the #1 position over another prospect who really does deserve it & been consistant all season in Calvin Johnson is like trying to catch VY in a bottle, can't be done.

that said system, system, system will determine the success of any QB coming into the league, how he adapts to the talent around him, his leadership skills & decision making. it also doesnt hurt if he's got a cannon for an arm or roller skates for wheels. but for goodness sakes he hasnt done anything really since the bowl game & all hes done is go from a mid first rd pick to #1 faster than Vince Young. in the end they are two different football players with compeletly different styles.

Ole Miss Texan
02-28-2007, 03:58 AM
and as i've said before,you are as dumb as toast, and couldn't draft your way out of a paper bag. Like it or not, Vinny has a point. The black qb in the draft goes through hell in these parts, while his white counterpart skates through. We had vince young suit threads, and hardly a peep about matt leinarts child out of wedlock. Russell is getting the treatment, and your trying to deny it and gloss over it. Its dumb. Its not Brady Quinn level dumb, but its still dumb.

okay i'll admit i'm :drunk: while posting this....

i forgot the whole reason why i took you're post "personal"

I have a child out of wedlock, and i'm white too. heaven forbid!!!

Please don't put personal attacks or enuendos towards players.

keep towards football related 'attacks' ie.... performs bad under pressure, doesn't scramble well, throws towards covered receivers,....etc.

don't hold having children out of wedlock against anybody. there's many football players that have children out of wedlock..both black and white. i'm white and am no where near a football player and have a child out of wedlock.

you can hold run ins against the law against a player...ie..when he gets arrested for drugs, sexual misconduct, battery, burgluray, felonies...etc.

none of which i hope have any relavence towary jamarcus russell. as far as i know he is free an clear. sorry to bring all this up in this thread... however if anybody disagrees please let me know...why and.....why.. thank you.

swtbound07
02-28-2007, 05:18 AM
okay i'll admit i'm :drunk: while posting this....

i forgot the whole reason why i took you're post "personal"

I have a child out of wedlock, and i'm white too. heaven forbid!!!

Please don't put personal attacks or enuendos towards players.

keep towards football related 'attacks' ie.... performs bad under pressure, doesn't scramble well, throws towards covered receivers,....etc.

don't hold having children out of wedlock against anybody. there's many football players that have children out of wedlock..both black and white. i'm white and am no where near a football player and have a child out of wedlock.

you can hold run ins against the law against a player...ie..when he gets arrested for drugs, sexual misconduct, battery, burgluray, felonies...etc.

none of which i hope have any relavence towary jamarcus russell. as far as i know he is free an clear. sorry to bring all this up in this thread... however if anybody disagrees please let me know...why and.....why.. thank you.


Kast was the one my post was directed to. I didn't personally attack the player, i could give a rats ass about matt leinarts kid or yours for that matter. I was using that as an example to show that the two players (leinart and young) were not treated equally on this board pre or post draft.

infantrycak
02-28-2007, 07:51 AM
I was using that as an example to show that the two players (leinart and young) were not treated equally on this board pre or post draft.

Your right they weren't--Leinart was never even a consideration because he wasn't local while Young was.

I didn't buy into the racial reasoning on Young last year and I don't now. This year, I'd say there is more doubt, scrutiny, whatever about Quinn than Russell. Poll Texan fans about who they would rather take at #8 Russell or Quinn if both are available at #8 and I bet you get a preponderance of Russell. Same result would have happened for Young last year. Not seeing the Texan fans are racist argument.

swtbound07
02-28-2007, 08:08 AM
Your right they weren't--Leinart was never even a consideration because he wasn't local while Young was.

I didn't buy into the racial reasoning on Young last year and I don't now. This year, I'd say there is more doubt, scrutiny, whatever about Quinn than Russell. Poll Texan fans about who they would rather take at #8 Russell or Quinn if both are available at #8 and I bet you get a preponderance of Russell. Same result would have happened for Young last year. Not seeing the Texan fans are racist argument.

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=18745

thats my point about our fans. Huge arguement blasting Vince Young

Here is the thread about Matt Leinart having an illegitimate child
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=27337&highlight=Leinart
its 3 pages, mostly jokes about him being a ladies man.

I can't pull it up, but i remember a LOT of talk in the threads about Moulds potentially coming here about him having multiple children by multiple mothers, and he got ripped for pages about it.

Im not one to pull the race card at every opportunity, but I think there is some merit to this particular theory on this particular board. I think if Vince did what Matt did, he would get ripped to shreds, and if Matt did what Vince did he would skate.

kastofsna
02-28-2007, 08:14 AM
Like it or not, Vinny has a point. The black qb in the draft goes through hell in these parts, while his white counterpart skates through. We had vince young suit threads, and hardly a peep about matt leinarts child out of wedlock. Russell is getting the treatment, and your trying to deny it and gloss over it. Its dumb. Its not Brady Quinn level dumb, but its still dumb.
lol he DOESN'T have a point, because that's WRONG. this has been the only negative thread about russell at ALL, and every single thread that has mentioned brady quinn has been extremely negative. and there's been a bunch. there was like three at one time titled "brady quinn." you had a few guys saying "yeah quinn is good i'll take him" but most of them were "hey he's a choker i dont want him he sucks reminds me of carr boo" etc etc. russell hasn't gotten even REMOTELY near the bashing quinn has got. vinny is flat-out WRONG.

lol @ calling brady quinn dumb. ****ing hysterical.

Silver Oak
02-28-2007, 08:56 AM
Like it or not, Vinny has a point. The black qb in the draft goes through hell in these parts, while his white counterpart skates through. We had vince young suit threads, and hardly a peep about matt leinarts child out of wedlock. Russell is getting the treatment, and your trying to deny it and gloss over it. Its dumb. Its not Brady Quinn level dumb, but its still dumb.

VY brought it on himself. Leinert didn't come to town proclaiming his desire to play here and jumping in front of every TV camera to say so.

To insinuate it's a racial deal is petty and not too bright.

mexican_texan
02-28-2007, 09:03 AM
Russell is under more scrutiny than Quinn because most people wrote off Quinn. I don't think more than four posters have said they liked Quinn.

As I said before, and as has been mentioned, VY is heavily scrutinized because
a) He's local
b) He went to UT
c) He plays for the Titans.

thunderkyss
02-28-2007, 09:55 AM
Your right they weren't--Leinart was never even a consideration because he wasn't local while Young was.

That thing about him being a pocket(something we don't have in H-Town) passer kinda killed it as well. That, and the fact that a lot of people on this board felt he was helped by all the talent he had on his team. While even though Vince's team was pretty talented as well, it's easier to "visualize" Vince doing more with less.



I didn't buy into the racial reasoning on Young last year and I don't now. This year, I'd say there is more doubt, scrutiny, whatever about Quinn than Russell. Poll Texan fans about who they would rather take at #8 Russell or Quinn if both are available at #8 and I bet you get a preponderance of Russell. Same result would have happened for Young last year. Not seeing the Texan fans are racist argument.

I agree... the only folks I can think of that didn't want Vince on this team, were either related to David, just plain stupid, or both....... (just kidding).

But again, I point to the media... they've been pumping Reggie all year and trying to shoe horn him as the #1 overall, most exciting, most captivating, most orgasmic player to ever grace the NFL that they took it out on anyone who threatened him(them).

Quinn... & Notre Dame had one really good stretch of a season when Charlie Weiss first got to that program. & Quinn's "stock" was pretty much built on that stretch, and a few "hot" games here & there. IMHO, Quinn is the "Emperor with New Clothes"... a media darling that really hadn't done anything to even be considered a #1 pick overall. Sure he's got talent(hint... hint, they all do), and he's a gamer, & It wouldn't bother me if the Texans selected him with the #8 overall.

If it makes you feel anybetter, I don't think Jamarcus Russell should be the #1 overall either.

I believe Calvin Johnson is the best prospect overall in this draft, followed by Adrian Peterson, but the #1 & #2 teams should have Joe Thomas at the top of their boards. Detroit should go AD, Cleveland chould take Calvin Johnson.

One way or another, that should be the top three. In my mind, if either QB goes in the top three, then that's due to poor team management, or media hype.


But that's just me.

infantrycak
02-28-2007, 10:00 AM
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=18745

thats my point about our fans. Huge arguement blasting Vince Young

Here is the thread about Matt Leinart having an illegitimate child
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=27337&highlight=Leinart
its 3 pages, mostly jokes about him being a ladies man.

The only thing a difference in length in those threads proves is Leinart wasn't even a consideration here. There was basically no one here last year trumpeting for the Texans to take what most draft gurus had as the top QB up until very shortly before the draft. That says the fans cared a whole lot more about hometown than they did about race.

kastofsna
02-28-2007, 10:05 AM
yeah, it's pretty much just LOGIC as to why leinart wasn't talked about as much as young.

just go the opposite direction. how many positive threads were there about vince young compared to matt leinart? 100 to 1 ratio. it's the same thing.