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View Full Version : Should trade with GB


htownfoozball
02-24-2007, 05:59 PM
bills make willis available, which might mean they're looking at RB's. Lynch would be available to them at 12. GB is supposed to be looking at Lynch as well. the talent really drops off after AD and Lynch, so unless they're fine with Hunt or Irons or one of the sleeper backs, they should be looking to trade up. i really wouldnt trade down unless peterson was gone and we got at least a 1st and 2nd rounder. thoughts?

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 06:03 PM
bills make willis available, which might mean they're looking at RB's. Lynch would be available to them at 12. GB is supposed to be looking at Lynch as well. the talent really drops off after AD and Lynch, so unless they're fine with Hunt or Irons or one of the sleeper backs, they should be looking to trade up. i really wouldnt trade down unless peterson was gone and we got at least a 1st and 2nd rounder. thoughts?

WAIT. you mean, there's not an Ohio State DB the Bills could take with their top pick?

tulexan
02-24-2007, 06:08 PM
I'd rather just take Lynch. We have never had a back as talented as him and the running game will continue to suffer until we address it with an elite prospect.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 06:13 PM
I'd rather just take Lynch. We have never had a back as talented as him and the running game will continue to suffer until we address it with an elite prospect.

In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.

Brandyon
02-24-2007, 06:20 PM
In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.

He can take a D III back and make him good, but as much as the zone blocking helps runners, there is a huge difference between a Terrell Davis and a Tatum Bell.

A decent RB will make our running game good, but a star will make it easily one of the best.

Not saying we should definately go for a big name RB or anything. Just throwing in my 2 cents

TEXANRED
02-24-2007, 06:21 PM
In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.

Thats what I have heard too yet we ranked near the bottom in the run game last year.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 06:25 PM
Thats what I have heard too yet we ranked near the bottom in the run game last year.

Give him time, last year he was working with guys that were pacified by Dom Capers. Let him get guys like Zach Wiegert off the team and work with a young QB (maybe Colt Brennan next year..or Brady Quinn this year). We'll be competing for the AFC crown soon enough.

tulexan
02-24-2007, 06:26 PM
In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.

Is that why we were going to draft Reggie Bush until a week before the draft? Or trade back into the first round to draft DeAngelo Williams? Running back is a major hole on this team and will be filled with a high draft pick this year.

htownfoozball
02-24-2007, 06:44 PM
i should clarify the topic, we should THINK about trading with GB. anyhoo, last year we were playing with a dinged up dayne and a rookie RB. we saw what dayne could do when healthy, albeit against below average defenses.

i do think we need a RB, but i dont think we NEED an elite guy. i would be very happy if we drafted brandon jackson from nebraska in the 4th.

1-houston CB
2-staley OT
2-meriweather/griffin/weddle FS
3-brown DT
4-jackson RB
5-harrington LB
6-henderson OT

tulexan
02-24-2007, 06:51 PM
We should just draft a RB and then not have to worry about it for the next 5 years rather than picking up a guy here and a guy there every other game.

We draft Lynch or Peterson and we are set for the next 5 to 6 years barring injury. We wait and then we have to fill it again later in the season or next season. And then we have to worry about it again the season after that, and then the season after that.


Another thing is that I am sick of hearing how Denver does everything. We are not Denver, we are Houston. Kubiak probably had little to no say in who the Broncos went after when he was the Offensive Coordinator so you should not assume that he is going to do everything the way that Shanahan did it.

Silver Oak
02-24-2007, 06:58 PM
He can take a D III back and make him good, but as much as the zone blocking helps runners, there is a huge difference between a Terrell Davis and a Tatum Bell.



this is becoming an urban legend of major proportions. I challenge anyone to find a quote from the Coach where he said that. Just cause he came from a system that did that, I can't recall a quote where Kubaik said that.

TexanSam
02-24-2007, 07:32 PM
In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.

Wali Lundy looked like the next coming of Emmitt Smith with us last year :sarcasm:

That Kubiak or the Denver scheme can make any running back a productive one is pure BS. I'm sure Clinton Portis was just some nobody while he was in Denver. Same with Terrell Davis. You need quality at the RB position and we don't have that. We have guys who are good backups, but if Ron Dayne, Wali Lundy, Samkon Gado, and Chris Taylor are all vying for significant playing time last year, chances are better than 50-50 that our running game will suck again.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 08:55 PM
this is becoming an urban legend of major proportions. I challenge anyone to find a quote from the Coach where he said that. Just cause he came from a system that did that, I can't recall a quote where Kubaik said that.

It isn't a direct quote from Gary, but just look at the past. He did it with Mike Anderson, and now Anderson is struggling WITHOUT Kubiak in Baltimore. If given the opportunity, Wali Lundy and Chris Taylor could have the Texans running game among the best in the league. Who cares about their low (or undrafted) draft status?! Do you wonder why RB is THE easiest position for a player to make a jump from college to the pros? That goes doubly true for a back in Kubiak's system.

LoneStarState
02-24-2007, 09:07 PM
I'd rather just take Lynch. We have never had a back as talented as him and the running game will continue to suffer until we address it with an elite prospect.
I agree. Unfortunately there are some here who still think running back by committee is the only way to go...

LoneStarState
02-24-2007, 09:08 PM
In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.
Horse hockey!

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 09:13 PM
Horse hockey!

Look at Mike Anderson...and more recently...Mike Bell. Granted, Gary wasn't there. But, it was undoubtedly his system they were running.

LoneStarState
02-24-2007, 09:16 PM
Look at Mike Anderson...and more recently...Mike Bell. Granted, Gary wasn't there. But, it was undoubtedly his system they were running.

:yawn:

Look at Lundy, Dayne, et al... Not buying the theory. Sorry...

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 09:23 PM
:yawn:

Look at Lundy, Dayne, et al... Not buying the theory. Sorry...

Obviously, Adrian Peterson looks like a stud on gameday, and more recently, at the combine. He would give us that much more of a boost. If Taylor and Lundy..and Dayne don't work out this year, I like the idea of taking Ray Rice next year.

LoneStarState
02-24-2007, 09:25 PM
Obviously, Adrian Peterson looks like a stud on gameday, and more recently, at the combine. He would give us that much more of a boost. If Taylor and Lundy..and Dayne don't work out this year, I like the idea of taking Ray Rice next year.

Unfortunately - I don't think Peterson will be there at 8. Wish we could Calvin Johnson, too... too bad we won 6 games this year! :stirpot:

threetoedpete
02-24-2007, 09:29 PM
It isn't a direct quote from Gary, but just look at the past. He did it with Mike Anderson, and now Anderson is struggling WITHOUT Kubiak in Baltimore. If given the opportunity, Wali Lundy and Chris Taylor could have the Texans running game among the best in the league. Who cares about their low (or undrafted) draft status?! Do you wonder why RB is THE easiest position for a player to make a jump from college to the pros? That goes doubly true for a back in Kubiak's system.

Yeah I mean the bottom line with this offense is your asking the guy to make one cut to give the line time to create a hole and then hit the hole quickly after the one cut. Now the problem last year....he could of cut till Jesus came back and there still would have been a hole developed. I don't see how spending thirty or forty million on a guy will help that out. Some do, we'll see.

Navy_Chris
02-25-2007, 12:03 AM
Yeah I mean the bottom line with this offense is your asking the guy to make one cut to give the line time to create a hole and then hit the hole quickly after the one cut. Now the problem last year....he could of cut till Jesus came back and there still would have been a hole developed. I don't see how spending thirty or forty million on a guy will help that out. Some do, we'll see.

Thank you Pete. My point exactly. Here's something to think about:

Chris Taylor runs a 4.65
Terrell Davis ran a 4.65

Could it be????...????

dbspi
02-25-2007, 12:32 AM
In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.

There is huge difference in talent pool between Broncos and Texans as far as OL is concerned. We hope to have our OL like Denver in maybe next few years but we are not there yet or not even close.

For Denver talent pool elite doesn't matter much from RB position but for us its a whole different story. We can only say that elite doesn't matter when we have top 3 OL in the league but for now we need AP.

edo783
02-25-2007, 10:47 AM
For Denver talent pool elite doesn't matter much from RB position but for us its a whole different story. .


The sad thing is, if the FO had taken care of business and actually built from the inside out, that may not be the case after 5 years of high picks.

Vinny
02-25-2007, 12:53 PM
In Kubiak's system, the eliteness of the RB doesn't matter. It's all about offensive line protection and attention to detail with respect to proper assignments. Kubiak can take a RB from a D III school and turn him into a star in the zone-blocking scheme.Your right...its the eliteness of the QB that matters. Elway had 12 playoff wins and 5 Super Bowl appearances. Since Elway they have had zero Super Bowl appearances and 1 playoff win.

dirty steve
02-25-2007, 01:23 PM
Your right...its the eliteness of the QB that matters. Elway had 12 playoff wins and 5 Super Bowl appearances. Since Elway they have had zero Super Bowl appearances and 1 playoff win.

to follow up, i am getting sick of people saying that since Denver typically didnt draft an RB in the first that it won't happen here. sure, shanahan and kubes shared the same offensive philosphies, but kubes would surely want to install some of his own wrinkles into the gameplan and yearly draft strategy as he matures as a head coach. zierlein said in his blog that if AD gave you 5-7 years of 1400 yds and 12-15 TD's, he would take that even with the supposed fragile label he carries with him. i dont think he will be there at #8, but i know i would have a hard time passing on him.

Insideop
02-25-2007, 07:02 PM
Wali Lundy looked like the next coming of Emmitt Smith with us last year :sarcasm:

That Kubiak or the Denver scheme can make any running back a productive one is pure BS. I'm sure Clinton Portis was just some nobody while he was in Denver. Same with Terrell Davis. You need quality at the RB position and we don't have that. We have guys who are good backups, but if Ron Dayne, Wali Lundy, Samkon Gado, and Chris Taylor are all vying for significant playing time last year, chances are better than 50-50 that our running game will suck again.

It's not BS! Neither Davis or Portis were drafted in the 1st round, and if I recall, neither was drafted in the 2nd round. The ZB System works in Denver because of the O-line and the amount of time they have been playing together. I won't say that Denver can take ANY RB and make them successful, but they can take almost any RB that fits the ZB scheme (one cut and run) and make them successful. That's why Denver usually takes lower round RB's and undrafted FA RB's.

As for our situation here, it's alot different because we don't have the O-line yet who has played together for years, but it's coming. It just takes time, and the sooner they start drafting the O-linemen (like Spencer and Winston last year) the sooner we start having a good ground game. I think we saw glimpses of what it could be when McKinney moved back to Center last year and Dayne and Taylor had good games (Indy and Cleveland) at the end of the season.

Bottom line, we don't need a stud 1st round RB to have a very good running game. Yes, it would be nice to get AP in the 1st, but we don't need too. We just need to get the stud O-linemen in here with good depth behind them and have them play together for more than just a few games. JMHO!

Ole Miss Texan
02-25-2007, 07:37 PM
As for our situation here, it's alot different because we don't have the O-line yet who has played together for years, but it's coming. It just takes time, and the sooner they start drafting the O-linemen (like Spencer and Winston last year) the sooner we start having a good ground game. I think we saw glimpses of what it could be when McKinney moved back to Center last year and Dayne and Taylor had good games (Indy and Cleveland) at the end of the season.

Bottom line, we don't need a stud 1st round RB to have a very good running game. Yes, it would be nice to get AP in the 1st, but we don't need too. We just need to get the stud O-linemen in here with good depth behind them and have them play together for more than just a few games. JMHO!

You are right on. We need to draft o-linemen higher than denver because we don't have a good o-line. once something is established you can cherry pick that group. We have to get the o-line helped: untill then no quarterback or running back will be successful. period.

as far as running back. If peterson is there we gotta take him. denver historically hasn't picked running back in the 1st rd for a number of reasons. one is the zbs arguement that they can take A LOT of running backs later and fit them in. the trick is getting the running backs that fit the system, that would actually help out.

another reason imo is that they've been picking in the 2nd half of the 1st most of the time because they have been a good team. look at a lot of the good running backs and they are taken in the top half of the 1st any way. why reach for a running back in the latter half of the 1st round when it's not the BEST PICK AVAILABLE. the bpa would be at other positions.

in our case..we can upgrade any position. if it's a running back in the first that is elite...take him. if he's not there we can get an 'elite' player at another position that will help.

when was the last time Denver took an offensive lineman as a top ten pick? i'm too lazy to look it up. 1-they usually don't pick that high, 2-they have bigger needs than their o-line because it's been established. since that's not the denver norm...should we pass that up too? hellno.

dbspi
02-25-2007, 11:31 PM
The sad thing is, if the FO had taken care of business and actually built from the inside out, that may not be the case after 5 years of high picks.

Yes you are absolutely correct, previous administration (Capers and Casserley) really screwed us very bad with all those wasted draft picks and bone headed personnel decision. We are still trying to clean up their act but it will take time. Just imagine we had 39 draft picks the first 3 years of expansion draft and all we have to show for is AJ and DRob. If we had used those draft picks correctly in evaluating players and personnel then our team would have been so talent rich right now and we be in the play off.

Sometimes I really wonder if those guys even had any vision or plans for our team or for that matter if they even knew what they were doing. Five years into our existence and we are already close to Salary CAP hell hole.

dbspi
02-25-2007, 11:48 PM
I think if AP is available at #8 then we need to draft him but if AP is drafted ahead of us then we need to draft Branch, Okoye, or Anderson who ever being available at #8 or we can also trade down a few spot and pick up few more draft picks. We really need more draft picks to fill all the holes.

Other thing is that I am not very high on Plummer trade. I don't mind picking him up as a FA but I am totally against the trading for him with Broncos.

Ole Miss Texan
02-25-2007, 11:51 PM
Well just look at it this way. If our last 'regime' had done their job...and actually built our team correctly, We would never have had the discussion of Peterson being a texan.

By that I mean, you don't hear Indianapolis, Chicago, New Orleans, New England, San Diego, Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, Dallas, Seattle talking about Adrian Peterson.

while some have great running backs already they have the most important thing in common. They were in the play offs and have absolutely no shot of Peterson.

:toast2: So here's to Casserly & Co. for giving us the false hope we could draft Adrian Peterson. And drafting top 10 each year has become a tradition in Houston.

:toast2: And here's to Kubiak & Co. for building us the right way. If we're not going to be able to draft the 'elite' player we want....let's make it because we're in the playoffs

Ole Miss Texan
02-25-2007, 11:53 PM
Other thing is that I am not very high on Plummer trade. I don't mind picking him up as a FA but I am totally against the trading for him with Broncos.


Did you read my mind? I don't like the idea of "getting rid" of Carr for a draft pick and then just giving it up...or a higher one for plummer. That would be dumb.