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NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 09:20 AM
OK, so the OL is by no means perfect, but it certainly does not deserve all the blame for sacks/protection. Despite all the injuries last year and everything 'new,' the OL reduced sacks by over a third.

Despite this improvement, our QB regressed as the season went along. In fact, we avg less than 2 sacks per game in 11 of our 16 games.

Without a doubt, Carr supporters will never be happy with the OL-even with 0 sacks- why? IMO, it's because they do not understand the QBs role in the protection/pocket scheme of things. We keep hearing that Carr is just 1 person...true...but he does have a role to perform with the other 10 team mates on the field to make things work--allowing him not to be a part of the blame when things don't works assumes he is 'mistake' free and does not belong in the team process of contributing to making plays work.

Bottom line, the OL got better last year. If they continue to improve next year, we should be close to where we need to be in the 'sack' scheme of things. However, if he is still here, that is no guarantee of what Carr's play will be...

BattleRedToro
02-24-2007, 09:41 AM
Yep.. We went from the 32nd rated to the 27th. " If they continue to improve " as you stated that will improve our teams chance to finally have a winning record. :texan:

That and stats don't tell the whole story. Just go back and watch the tape of 5 guys routinely beat by 4-man rushes and then come back and tell me how good they are. I even saw Carr pressured with a 3 man rush last year, and no it wasn't because Carr held the ball too long. The absolute worst is the amount of pressure up the middle. I remember seeing a DT shoot an interior gap into the backfield only slightly behind the rate at which Carr dropped back so that when Carr's foot hit the ground on Carr's third step there was nothing he could do but tuck the ball for a sack, otherwise he would risk a turnover.

thunderkyss
02-24-2007, 09:45 AM
Yep.. We went from the 32nd rated to the 27th. " If they continue to improve " as you stated that will improve our teams chance to finally have a winning record. :texan:

seeing how we had a pretty dang good chance at having a winning record in '06, I'd say yeah.

I'm watching the first Jacksonville game right now, and I just saw two sacks, that most likely credited to the offensive line, even though no offensive lineman was responsible for the sack, but there was no one else to blame.

On one, they didn't show blitz, but Jax sent a Corner & a LB from the left side, and their MLB blitzed right up the middle. Salaam was successfully blocking a DE, and Pitts was singled up on the DT. The Center, RG, and RT did a good job with the three pass rushers on their side.

David took a nice 5 step drop, made his reads, and was throwing the ball to Owen Daniels(12 yards from the LOS) as David was hit by one of two free blitzers from his left.

Samkon Gado was the lone back, 3 recievers, 1 TE. Like I said, the Jags didn't show blitz, so it made perfect sense for Gado to release into the Flats. I can't blame any Texan for that sack, but a good call by Jax, and a fast LB.

IMHO, the line looked lost in '05. from one end to the other, I didn't think they knew what they were supposed to be doing from one play to the other. I would say there was definite improvement in that area in '06. I'm really looking forward to see Pitts, McKinney, Weary, & Winston build on what they did at the end of '06.

SamuraiSword
02-24-2007, 11:31 AM
OK, so the OL is by no means perfect, but it certainly does not deserve all the blame for sacks/protection. Despite all the injuries last year and everything 'new,' the OL reduced sacks by over a third.

Despite this improvement, our QB regressed as the season went along. In fact, we avg less than 2 sacks per game in 11 of our 16 games.

Without a doubt, Carr supporters will never be happy with the OL-even with 0 sacks- why? IMO, it's because they do not understand the QBs role in the protection/pocket scheme of things. We keep hearing that Carr is just 1 person...true...but he does have a role to perform with the other 10 team mates on the field to make things work--allowing him not to be a part of the blame when things don't works assumes he is 'mistake' free and does not belong in the team process of contributing to making plays work.

Bottom line, the OL got better last year. If they continue to improve next year, we should be close to where we need to be in the 'sack' scheme of things. However, if he is still here, that is no guarantee of what Carr's play will be...

I agree with your statement. You know the reason why Vince took a 0-5 team to a 9-7 team? He brought confidence back to the offensive line by saying, "look if you want to win stay if you don't leave." He said something similar to that, but because of that they improved and did better. Carr supporters say draft offensive line, but why you guys will just blame the new guys because they are learning the NFL style of play. I am surprised that an offensive lineman is not reading these posts by Carr supporters and getting ticked off by them even though they did good last season. Just remember Kubiak yelled at the defense for not doing good. He didn't yell at the offense.........

:twocents:

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 11:36 AM
I agree with your statement. You know the reason why Vince took a 0-5 team to a 9-7 team? He brought confidence back to the offensive line by saying, "look if you want to win stay if you don't leave." He said something similar to that, but because of that they improved and did better. Carr supporters say draft offensive line, but why you guys will just blame the new guys because they are learning the NFL style of play. I am surprised that an offensive lineman is not reading these posts by Carr supporters and getting ticked off by them even though they did good last season. Just remember Kubiak yelled at the defense for not doing good. He didn't yell at the offense.........

:twocents:

I said this in another thread. The thin "line" between a good line and bad line is sometimes the man pulling the trigger. It happened in Tenn. this year and it happened in Dallas. O-lines that got beat up in the media and then miraculously improved with a new QB in the picture. I won't go on and on but if you watch Brady in a game or even what Rosenfels did in the game where we almost came back...one side step to buy one extra second is the difference between a sack and a completion. Some people can just make that extra move. Brady in the Colts game seemed to have all day in the first half but I watched many of the replays and there were many times where the end beat the tackle but when they reached out their paws Brady would either slide into the pocket or to one side and the hands would miss them. It makes a big difference.

NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 12:47 PM
Yep.. We went from the 32nd rated to the 27th. " If they continue to improve " as you stated that will improve our teams chance to finally have a winning record. :texan:

We were tied for 23rd in '06 (not sure what yr you were looking at), an improvement of 9 spots. However, we only threw more tds than 1 team below us with more sacks. Here are the teams below us in sacks with passing tds in ()...

Rams 49(24)/Lions 63(21)/Pitt 49(23)/Seattle 49(26)/Browns54(15)/Bills47(19)Raiders72(07)Atlanta47(21)...Minn43(13) Texans43(14)

...so, despite the significant improvement by the OL, our QB actually threw fewer tds(11) in '06 than '05!..Carr is great/ol sucks?

Spled
02-24-2007, 01:50 PM
Obviously this thread was designed to be another bash Carr thread. Anyone that watched the Tennessee game knows that Vince Young had about 3 times the amount of time as Carr did in the pocket. That's a simple fact.

If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."

NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 02:34 PM
Obviously this thread was designed to be another bash Carr thread. Anyone that watched the Tennessee game knows that Vince Young had about 3 times the amount of time as Carr did in the pocket. That's a simple fact.

If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."

JMO, but I believe a new QB will do wonders for the team, so what will the homers say? if it's like what they did when Caper's 5 yr plan went bye-bye, they'll disappear...

BattleRedToro
02-24-2007, 02:34 PM
I said this in another thread. The thin "line" between a good line and bad line is sometimes the man pulling the trigger. It happened in Tenn. this year and it happened in Dallas. O-lines that got beat up in the media and then miraculously improved with a new QB in the picture. I won't go on and on but if you watch Brady in a game or even what Rosenfels did in the game where we almost came back...one side step to buy one extra second is the difference between a sack and a completion. Some people can just make that extra move. Brady in the Colts game seemed to have all day in the first half but I watched many of the replays and there were many times where the end beat the tackle but when they reached out their paws Brady would either slide into the pocket or to one side and the hands would miss them. It makes a big difference.

There is also a difference between having to avoid one defender occasionally and having to avoid multiple defenders almost all the time.

BattleRedToro
02-24-2007, 02:36 PM
I agree with your statement. You know the reason why Vince took a 0-5 team to a 9-7 team? :twocents:

And of course the defense and the running game had nothing to do with their record at all. :pigfly:

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 02:37 PM
Obviously this thread was designed to be another bash Carr thread. Anyone that watched the Tennessee game knows that Vince Young had about 3 times the amount of time as Carr did in the pocket. That's a simple fact.

If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."

No, it was made to point out the reality of pro football and to show that there is a responsibility of many when it comes to time in the pocket and sacks. VY didn't have 3 times the amount of time. His line was horrible to start the season and their backs got nowhere. Once he took over Henry's average skyrocketed and the line problems weren't as pronounced. It happens on every team when a guy comes in that can work the pocket.

If he leaves people will wish everyone well. What's going to happen if the new guy does well?Are people going to say that the line al of sudden was better than when Carr was here?It works both ways.

infantrycak
02-24-2007, 02:56 PM
Once he took over Henry's average skyrocketed and the line problems weren't as pronounced.

Young contributed to the running game's rejuvenation, but the other thing was the Titans changing their plan as well. Henry didn't even play at all in two of the 4 games before Young took over and only had a total of 30 carries. A big piece of the improvement for the running game was anointing Henry the starter (same week as Young) at RB and stop mucking around with White and Brown as much.

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Young contributed to the running game's rejuvenation, but the other thing was the Titans changing their plan as well. Henry didn't even play at all in two of the 4 games before Young took over and only had a total of 30 carries. A big piece of the improvement for the running game was anointing Henry the starter (same week as Young) at RB and stop mucking around with White and Brown as much.

I'll agree with that helping too. Their RBBC was getting in the way. I really just wanted to point out that sometimes a teams problems are more than just one piece or area and that there is a constribution from all in the sack blame game. I used Brady as an example earlier. If you watch some of their games it looks like he has all day because of how he looks in the pocket. There are some games, however, where I see an end beat the tackle and come off the edge but he is ahead of the game and steps up or slides to the side and basically the end whiffs or is out of reach. Those are little things that buy a second and a completion and make a line look a little better.

The Pencil Neck
02-24-2007, 03:12 PM
If Carr does leave, who are you guys going to blame everything on? He could be gone for 3 years and you would say, "the other players picked up those bad habits from Carr."

And what are the Carr fans going to say if some scrub comes in here and everything clicks? You're going to say, "See, we finally fix the line and a scrub can do it" or something similar.

Carr has had his opportunity. There were many times this year when he made the wrong plays. And those wrong plays resulted in sacks, turnovers, and plays that left yards on the field. If you go back and watch the games, he had lots of time on many occasions and he rarely took advantage of it.

Sure, everybody makes mistakes. Any QB we bring in here is going to make mistakes, misreads, and poor throws. But we need someone who doesn't mess up on a consistent basis. We are THAT close to being a decent team and we can't afford those kinds of mistakes.

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 03:17 PM
And what are the Carr fans going to say if some scrub comes in here and everything clicks? You're going to say, "See, we finally fix the line and a scrub can do it" or something similar.
Carr has had his opportunity. There were many times this year when he made the wrong plays. And those wrong plays resulted in sacks, turnovers, and plays that left yards on the field. If you go back and watch the games, he had lots of time on many occasions and he rarely took advantage of it.

Sure, everybody makes mistakes. Any QB we bring in here is going to make mistakes, misreads, and poor throws. But we need someone who doesn't mess up on a consistent basis. We are THAT close to being a decent team and we can't afford those kinds of mistakes.

That's been my prediction and I said it earlier today on one of these crazy posts. There will be many who will pull the "why wasn't that line here when he played."

Mr. White
02-24-2007, 03:44 PM
Funny how bad the Cowboys line was while Bledsoe was the QB. It wasn't so much of a problem with Romo at QB.

A 2 part question for the guys that break down the film around here....

1. How long does it usually take for Carr to get rid of the ball after the ball has been snapped?
2. How long does that compare to the other QB's?

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 03:46 PM
Funny how bad the Cowboys line was while Bledsoe was the QB. It wasn't so much of a problem with Romo at QB.A 2 part question for the guys that break down the film around here....

1. How long does it usually take for Carr to get rid of the ball after the ball has been snapped?
2. How long does that compare to the other QB's?

Been sayin that all day. Its incredible what the right person can do.

SamuraiSword
02-24-2007, 04:39 PM
Funny how bad the Cowboys line was while Bledsoe was the QB. It wasn't so much of a problem with Romo at QB.

A 2 part question for the guys that break down the film around here....

1. How long does it usually take for Carr to get rid of the ball after the ball has been snapped?
2. How long does that compare to the other QB's?

Yes those are all good points. I just wonder if some people understand football and just want to blame others because its easier.......

Hulk75
02-24-2007, 04:46 PM
It is very simple people.

Oline and Dline- If the guy is better then you and whipping your tail, he is better then you are. That happened a lot last year, I mean my goodness, one of the sacks last year came on a screen!

Have they gotten better, yes, but it is far from saying it is fine and dandy.

I love all those guys up front and I hope they are working hard for next year.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 05:21 PM
It is very simple people.

Oline and Dline- If the guy is better then you and whipping your tail, he is better then you are. That happened a lot last year, I mean my goodness, one of the sacks last year came on a screen!

Have they gotten better, yes, but it is far from saying it is fine and dandy.

I love all those guys up front and I hope they are working hard for next year.

come on..don't sugarcoat it. we, as Houston Texan fans, expect far better from these guys than they give us. They get paid VERY well to go out as a team and deliver a W. But, what we get is embarrassment on national TV by getting crushed 40-7 by the Patriots. With all the money these guys make, for them not to be able to go out and put the ball across the goal line is just pathetic. I am a HUGE Texans fan, but I find it difficult to not be critical of them when I think about the 5 years we have had to get this thing right, and yet, it's STILL a work in progress. Come on guys, get it together.

infantrycak
02-24-2007, 05:48 PM
Some folks are acting like Romo came in and Dallas' sack issues were over for the season. Last four games they gave up 2, 3, 3, and 4 sacks--and the Cowboys were 1-3. Little game tape on Romo and things were different.

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 06:07 PM
Some folks are acting like Romo came in and Dallas' sack issues were over for the season. Last four games they gave up 2, 3, 3, and 4 sacks--and the Cowboys were 1-3. Little game tape on Romo and things were different.

Not over but they improved enough during a 5-1 stretch to get them in playoff contention. I don't buy that it was gametape as much as he decided he could do more than he thought and started making the dumb plays he avoided trying to make earlier. It was still enough to give Barber and Jones more room than they had before.

DocBar
02-24-2007, 08:18 PM
I agree with your statement. You know the reason why Vince took a 0-5 team to a 9-7 team? He brought confidence back to the offensive line by saying, "look if you want to win stay if you don't leave." He said something similar to that, but because of that they improved and did better. Carr supporters say draft offensive line, but why you guys will just blame the new guys because they are learning the NFL style of play. I am surprised that an offensive lineman is not reading these posts by Carr supporters and getting ticked off by them even though they did good last season. Just remember Kubiak yelled at the defense for not doing good. He didn't yell at the offense.........

:twocents: Show me an OL WORTH supporting. I say draft OL because ours suck and it doesn't who we put behind center, he's not gonna be average because he's gonna be on the groun all the time. I'm all for splitting the sheets with Carr, just on't screw up the next guy the same way.
There have been 2 consistent things on offense. Crappy OL's and crappy QB play. Coincidence? Even a caveman could figure it out.

NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 09:42 PM
It is very simple people.

Oline and Dline- If the guy is better then you and whipping your tail, he is better then you are. That happened a lot last year, I mean my goodness, one of the sacks last year came on a screen!

Have they gotten better, yes, but it is far from saying it is fine and dandy.

I love all those guys up front and I hope they are working hard for next year.

Noting all the injuries on the OL in '06 and still cutting sacks by 40%, where did David take his OL for dinner to show his appreciation? Earl Campbell use to take an absolute beating every game but bought his OL watches (Rolex's?) and took them to lunch every week for 'opening holes' for him....

Hervoyel
02-24-2007, 09:54 PM
I do support the line and I absolutely believe that they will be much improved in 2007. I believe that regardless of whether they add a single player. That is assuming that Charles Spencer can come back from his injury and be effective at LT. If he can't they'll need an answer to that spot (again) and it better not be Salaam because he's no answer at all.

The line will improve their pass protection and in all likelyhood improve their run blocking too. I'm for the most part quite optimistic about this coming season. I'd be completely satisfied if the Texans would upgrade one starter on the line. If they can improve either the center position or one of the two starting guards then I'm happy and you all will be too once the games start being played.

TexanFan881
02-24-2007, 10:02 PM
I honestly think we could be okay with who we've got, especially if Charles Spencer can come back. All these guys need is a couple years together without switching up everything every game. They improved a lot this year and I think next year they will be overall a solid offensive line. Not the greatest line ever, but a halfway decent one at that. It would be nice to address the OL in the draft or free agency, but to take a reach to get someone like Levi Brown at 8 would be a huge mistake with the bigger needs we have.

BattleRedToro
02-24-2007, 11:09 PM
I honestly think we could be okay with who we've got, especially if Charles Spencer can come back. All these guys need is a couple years together without switching up everything every game. They improved a lot this year and I think next year they will be overall a solid offensive line. Not the greatest line ever, but a halfway decent one at that. It would be nice to address the OL in the draft or free agency, but to take a reach to get someone like Levi Brown at 8 would be a huge mistake with the bigger needs we have.

I don't think Levi Brown is a reach at #8 I think he will be better than Joe Thomas who could go as high as #1.

SamuraiSword
02-24-2007, 11:23 PM
Noting all the injuries on the OL in '06 and still cutting sacks by 40%, where did David take his OL for dinner to show his appreciation? Earl Campbell use to take an absolute beating every game but bought his OL watches (Rolex's?) and took them to lunch every week for 'opening holes' for him....

I never knew that? Now that is a man who cares about his team.

DocBar
02-25-2007, 01:26 AM
I do support the line and I absolutely believe that they will be much improved in 2007. I believe that regardless of whether they add a single player. That is assuming that Charles Spencer can come back from his injury and be effective at LT. If he can't they'll need an answer to that spot (again) and it better not be Salaam because he's no answer at all.

The line will improve their pass protection and in all likelyhood improve their run blocking too. I'm for the most part quite optimistic about this coming season. I'd be completely satisfied if the Texans would upgrade one starter on the line. If they can improve either the center position or one of the two starting guards then I'm happy and you all will be too once the games start being played.

That's a fairly optimistic IF, Herv. Of course, I support our players, but as a unit, our OL has at LEAST 2 major holes and could use upgrading at 3-4 positions. I'm perfectly comfortable with Pitts at LG. Other than that, we need help. Right now, as it stands, we have an injured LT who's questionable at best for full recovery, a second yr RT, who SHOULD(we all hope) show MAJOR improvement in '07, a proven LG, 1 injury prone, older C, 2 C's who've proven they aren't thet answer, and plethora of RG's w/ Weary or our projected RT(Winston) as our best options. Salaam played well, despite his injuries, but should NOT be considered a starter. Other than that, we questionable depth at best.
I'm sick to death of David Carr, and how much he sucks, threads. Until we get an OL that has some true 1st string players, any and all QBs we put behind center will struggle.

DocBar
02-25-2007, 01:28 AM
Now guys.. some of the gang have gone over the top.. with get rid of Carr, he broke my toy.boo hoo. Now they decided to hate Carr supporters too. Now take a minute. Just think, when you lie about supporters, you just weaken your own position. Now everyone here, knows I'm young, rich, and good looking; can you hate me for that? :shades: Yes. And I do.

Navy_Chris
02-25-2007, 04:07 AM
Lol

should we know you?

Honoring Earl 34
02-25-2007, 10:19 AM
I never knew that? Now that is a man who cares about his team.

Earl ran as hard as anyone who ever played the game .

I bet Earl put more fear in DBs than any back who ever played .

Nathan's right about Earl buying watches for his OL who were not that good except for Leon Gray .

I bet Earl never made an excuse .

He was not Franco 5 yds and to the sideline ... Earl created his own hole a lot of times .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdvVaTbwMrE&mode=related&search=

NATHANHALE
02-25-2007, 11:14 AM
Earl ran as hard as anyone who ever played the game .

I bet Earl put more fear in DBs than any back who ever played .

Nathan's right about Earl buying watches for his OL who were not that good except for Leon Gray .

I bet Earl never made an excuse .

He was not Franco 5 yds and to the sideline ... Earl created his own hole a lot of times .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdvVaTbwMrE&mode=related&search=

Earl never took any credit, always giving it to his team mates. And,that team was made up of cast offs and players past their prime but they gave everything they had. Too, talk about a QB with guts-Dan Pastorini-man that guy use to take some hits (qbs weren't protected then). In fact, they invented the 'flap jacket' for him so he could keep on playing with busted ribs.

Remember the MNF game where Campbell personally tore Miami up? Earl had speed and power and broke a 95 yd run, racing past the DB's?

Earl always got up real slow after being tackled, making fans wonder if he was OK. The press asked Bum about it once and he said, ",,,yeah, he gets up kinda slow but he goes down even slower..."

What Carr and DW go through is nothing like those days-guess that's why I'm not real sympathetic about their plight...

Vinny
02-25-2007, 11:25 AM
Earl had the greatest rookie season in NFL history as he won NFL Rookie of the year and league MVP. He didn't need to wait for the team to surround him with a ton of great players....he elevated the team himself...oh the memories...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcrYwErP_nw

Honoring Earl 34
02-25-2007, 11:29 AM
[QUOTWhat Carr and DW go through is nothing like those days-guess that's why I'm not real sympathetic about their plight...
E][/QUOTE]

Not to mention the pathetic field he played on .

I think I remember plywood in the end zone or something ... maybe I'm crazy .

For our Cali readers ... that's what Texans admire ... Ryan , Campbell , Akeem , Singletary , and Roger ( that's Clemens QB75 ) .

aj.
02-25-2007, 11:37 AM
Remember the MNF game where Campbell personally tore Miami up? Earl had speed and power and broke a 95 yd run, racing past the DB's?

...


It was 81 yards, but yeah, I remember it well. I can still see it in my mind. I was fortunate to be sitting on the field level, 30 yard line behind the Oilers bench for that one (with a SRO ticket). Some guy let me sit next to him because I had a battery operated tv and we could watch replays. The battery died during the second quarter but it didn't matter. It was one of the top three most memorable games I've ever attended.

Double Barrel
02-25-2007, 11:46 AM
Just remember that not all of the sacks can be blamed on the offensive line. As a matter of fact, a good third of Carr's sacks in 2005 were his own fault according to Coach Kubiak.

When an offense only has one playmaker, it's pretty easy for opposing defenses to gameplan. A one dimensional offense does not require much thinking, and that's pretty much what we've been for 5 years now.

Tulip
02-25-2007, 11:58 AM
Just remember that not all of the sacks can be blamed on the offensive line. As a matter of fact, a good third of Carr's sacks in 2005 were his own fault according to Coach Kubiak.


I thought he said one-half. But my memory is fuzzy and cynical.

I guess now is a good time to trot out Joey Porter's quotes from the Texans/Steelers game:

"He was running everywhere," said linebacker Joey Porter, who had his second sack of the season and came close on several more. "Delay of games, throwing the ball in the dirt, taking sacks, running into guys. He was scrambling for no reason at times. Sometimes, he sacked himself, he ran out of bounds on the line of scrimmage and he sacked himself."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05262/574078.stm

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 01:05 PM
I thought he said one-half. But my memory is fuzzy and cynical.

I guess now is a good time to trot out Joey Porter's quotes from the Texans/Steelers game:

"He was running everywhere," said linebacker Joey Porter, who had his second sack of the season and came close on several more. "Delay of games, throwing the ball in the dirt, taking sacks, running into guys. He was scrambling for no reason at times. Sometimes, he sacked himself, he ran out of bounds on the line of scrimmage and he sacked himself."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05262/574078.stm

Are you kidding, everyone in the league thinks he is getting a raw deal and loves him:sarcasm:

Trap_Star
02-25-2007, 01:06 PM
Earl had the greatest rookie season in NFL history as he won NFL Rookie of the year and league MVP. He didn't need to wait for the team to surround him with a ton of great players....he elevated the team himself...oh the memories...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcrYwErP_nw

I wish I could of seen him play...:ok:

NATHANHALE
02-25-2007, 01:16 PM
Earl had the greatest rookie season in NFL history as he won NFL Rookie of the year and league MVP. He didn't need to wait for the team to surround him with a ton of great players....he elevated the team himself...oh the memories...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcrYwErP_nw

...any chance you can work some of your magic, Vinny, and post a link to Earl's MNF td run against Miami?

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 01:25 PM
...any chance you can work some of your magic, Vinny, and post a link to Earl's MNF td run against Miami?

Here is a set of highlights with it. The run against the Chargers and Rams is even better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IMJvUgLCXE

Hulk75
02-25-2007, 01:31 PM
Noting all the injuries on the OL in '06 and still cutting sacks by 40%, where did David take his OL for dinner to show his appreciation? Earl Campbell use to take an absolute beating every game but bought his OL watches (Rolex's?) and took them to lunch every week for 'opening holes' for him....

Once again speaking like you know everything. David buys his guys a gift at every end of the year meeting. He got them all surround sound for their homes this season. Every OLineman on the team got that and a PSP. And last year they bought him a watch, might have been platnium. And he just got back on a hunting trip with Steve McKinney, anything else I need to clue you in on? or would you just like to think Carr takes his check and goes home, get your ear out of the media and think for yourself every now and again.

AND he takes care of the guys who dont make as much, I went in there one time and he had thousands of dollars in Best Buy Card money. There was atleast 7 or 8 yellow cards (which are $1,000 each), he went all the way down to were the guys had no name on their locker and started handing them out, what Carr does for his teammates is great.

Hervoyel
02-25-2007, 01:38 PM
That's a fairly optimistic IF, Herv. Of course, I support our players, but as a unit, our OL has at LEAST 2 major holes and could use upgrading at 3-4 positions. I'm perfectly comfortable with Pitts at LG. Other than that, we need help. Right now, as it stands, we have an injured LT who's questionable at best for full recovery, a second yr RT, who SHOULD(we all hope) show MAJOR improvement in '07, a proven LG, 1 injury prone, older C, 2 C's who've proven they aren't thet answer, and plethora of RG's w/ Weary or our projected RT(Winston) as our best options. Salaam played well, despite his injuries, but should NOT be considered a starter. Other than that, we questionable depth at best.
I'm sick to death of David Carr, and how much he sucks, threads. Until we get an OL that has some true 1st string players, any and all QBs we put behind center will struggle.

I agree with you and never said that they only had one hole. I said that I would be satisfied if they filled one hole this year. I don't think that it's possible to fix all of anything in one season.

In my opinion we probably have a pair of guards who can start in the NFL but we could do better there. We very much need a center to build around right now. As a matter of fact we needed him last year too but it just may not have been possible and Flanagan might have been all they could do.

The truth is however that they need a real anchor in the middle and not one who can't stay healthy. The center position has been FUBAR since the day this team started and it's not gotten much better. The tackle problems get all the attention from the fans and media but there are plenty of teams with tackle problems who don't look like the Texans have for the past 5 years. That's because most of those teams at least have an interior line that can be relied upon to hold it's own. McKinney has been a weak link since it all started but he was originally surrounded by so many other weaker links that he got a pass.

I don't expect him to even make this team in 2007.

So I'm good with a top flight G coming here. I'm good with them drafting a LT at #8 if they think that Spencer may not be able to be the player they expected him to be. I'm good with a free agent center or aquiring one in a trade if that's possible. I just know that they can only focus so much on the line in one off-season and so if they completely and correctly fix one spot then I'm good. I personally think that our RT will be ok with Winston coming back for his second year. Having to play him so soon sucked but at least he got the reps and can build on it. I'm ok with both our guards if we can put a truly gifted center between them. I'm even ok with keeping Flanagan and getting 7-9 games out of him before he limps off the field if the Texans went out and drafted a LT who can get the job done for the next 8-10 years minimum.

If Spencer can come back then I hope to see either a new C and/or a new G starting but I don't think they should blow up what continuity they will gain just for the sake of wholesale change.

Keep in mind that if you review our teams history this will be only the second time we've gone into a season with the exact same line coack and system in place. The first time that happened was in 2003 and while we only won 5 games that year (it was the season that our entire defense seemed to go on IR) Domanick Davis emerged and sacks dropped well into normal levels. Then of course we implemented "zone blocking" the next year and Joe Pendry showed up to "help us out" with that.

Big IF on Spencer though I admit. If he can come back then we can really be on our way to the line problems being a thing of the past. If he can't then we're a season away from being able to say that IMO.

NATHANHALE
02-25-2007, 01:40 PM
Once again speaking like you know everything. David buys his guys a gift at every end of the year meeting. He got them all surround sound for their homes this season. Every OLineman on the team got that and a PSP. And last year they bought him a watch, might have been platnium. And he just got back on a hunting trip with Steve McKinney, anything else I need to clue you in on? or would you just like to think Carr takes his check and goes home, get your ear out of the media and think for yourself every now and again.

...you got any proof of that? There is never a thing said in the media about anything David does in the community, like visit a sick kid or anything--usually, the media jumps on that kind of stuff...just curious, I'd like to read about it

...by the way, how do you like my ring?

Honoring Earl 34
02-25-2007, 01:44 PM
...you got any proof of that? There is never a thing said in the media about anything David does in the community, like visit a sick kid or anything--usually, the media jumps on that kind of stuff...just curious, I'd like to read about it

...by the way, how do you like my ring?

What kinda ring is it Mr. Hale ?

The Execution of Nathan Hale, 1776

Mr . Hale you're an old fella with 9 lives .

NATHANHALE
02-25-2007, 01:54 PM
What kinda ring is it Mr. Hale ?

The Execution of Nathan Hale, 1776

Mr . Hale you're an old fella with 9 lives .

It's my brother-in-law's SB ring he brought to a family wedding a couple years ago...

TexansSeminole
02-25-2007, 01:56 PM
I said this in another thread. The thin "line" between a good line and bad line is sometimes the man pulling the trigger. It happened in Tenn. this year and it happened in Dallas. O-lines that got beat up in the media and then miraculously improved with a new QB in the picture. I won't go on and on but if you watch Brady in a game or even what Rosenfels did in the game where we almost came back...one side step to buy one extra second is the difference between a sack and a completion. Some people can just make that extra move. Brady in the Colts game seemed to have all day in the first half but I watched many of the replays and there were many times where the end beat the tackle but when they reached out their paws Brady would either slide into the pocket or to one side and the hands would miss them. It makes a big difference.

Another post I agree 100% on. Im gonna give you verbal rep for this one. I must spread it around before giving it to you again.

Honoring Earl 34
02-25-2007, 01:58 PM
It's my brother-in-law's SB ring he brought to a family wedding a couple years ago...

What team ?

Hulk75
02-25-2007, 01:58 PM
...you got any proof of that? There is never a thing said in the media about anything David does in the community, like visit a sick kid or anything--usually, the media jumps on that kind of stuff...just curious, I'd like to read about it

...by the way, how do you like my ring?

His kid is sick with diabetes does that count? You want to make a joke out of everything by being a smart ass all the time?

Your ring? WoW! I guess I didnot see that, that must be the story of a lifetime, hold on to that ring because you cant take it with you when you die, unless you try to swallow it.

Hulk75
02-25-2007, 02:02 PM
I said this in another thread. The thin "line" between a good line and bad line is sometimes the man pulling the trigger. It happened in Tenn. this year and it happened in Dallas. O-lines that got beat up in the media and then miraculously improved with a new QB in the picture. I won't go on and on but if you watch Brady in a game or even what Rosenfels did in the game where we almost came back...one side step to buy one extra second is the difference between a sack and a completion. Some people can just make that extra move. Brady in the Colts game seemed to have all day in the first half but I watched many of the replays and there were many times where the end beat the tackle but when they reached out their paws Brady would either slide into the pocket or to one side and the hands would miss them. It makes a big difference.

No when he made 1 guy miss, was there anyone else he had to side step when he got into his nice round pockett in front of him.

Sure it is prettty easy to make 1 guy miss, but when it his like a shotgun start at the snap of the ball for the DLine, it is pretty hard to move out of the way.

Trap_Star
02-25-2007, 02:02 PM
You have a beautiful little girl hulk...

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 02:06 PM
No when he made 1 guy miss, was there anyone else he had to side step when he got into his nice round pockett in front of him.

Sure it is prettty easy to make 1 guy miss, but when it his like a shotgun start at the snap of the ball for the DLine, it is pretty hard to move out of the way.

It is?Because usually what we see is pure panic and a fall down into the fetal position or a quick throw. The pockets I saw were not perfect in the Brady games I watched. You just don't see the panic. It is something he had in him since he was brought in for Bledsoe. The first season he took over, Bledsoe was taking a beating and Brady got sacked quite a few times himself. He still made plays though. Some have it, some don't. Considering our line made improvements this year despite injuries and Carr's stats went south tells me alot. As I've said before, in this day and age no one is afforded a perfect line or situation. You find guys that can deal with it and still make plays. If guys with a great arm and college career just had to wait for the perfect line then there would be a ton of "Ryan Leafs" waiting to play somewhere.

Hulk75
02-25-2007, 02:07 PM
You have a beautiful little girl hulk...

Thanks bro!

Hulk75
02-25-2007, 02:07 PM
It is?Because usually what we see is pure panic and a fall down into the fetal position or a quick throw. The pockets I saw were not perfect in the Brady games I watched. You just don't see the panic. It is something he had in him since he was brought in for Bledsoe. The first season he took over Bledsoe was taking a beating and Brady got sacked quite a few times himself. He still made plays though. Some have it, some don't. Considering our line made improvements this year despite injuries and Carr's stats went south tells me alot.

...........:ok:

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 02:10 PM
...........:ok:


The typical response. Sorry, it isn't personal, just football.

Hulk75
02-25-2007, 03:00 PM
The typical response. Sorry, it isn't personal, just football.

You can feel free to the other 2,000 posts I have on your theory, dont feel to smart. It gets a little old typing the same thing over and over.

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 03:06 PM
You can feel free to the other 2,000 posts I have on your theory, dont feel to smart. It gets a little old typing the same thing over and over.

I wouldn't call it "theory" just the way I've looked at the NFL for 25-30 years. Not everyone makes it.

infantrycak
02-25-2007, 03:09 PM
As a matter of fact, a good third of Carr's sacks in 2005 were his own fault according to Coach Kubiak.

I thought he said one-half. But my memory is fuzzy and cynical.

The coach was never identified by McClain, but we can assume it was Kubiak. The report was whoever reviewed it put 20 sacks (presumably of the 68 total that year) on Carr.