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spurstexanstros
02-23-2007, 12:46 PM
Everybody

I guess all the Carr haters would just call me an apologist and anyone who posts on this thread would be labeled as such. Heck for my support of #8 I have been accused of being in his family. From what I understand his brother does post here and he(david) may even read this crap. This is not total blind love of David Carr thread. I know he has made mistakes and this year there were some games in which he looked like he had post-traumatic stress syndrome. He isnt the home town kid, he isnt the heisman winner nor the second coming of warren moon. What he is is a damn good quarterback, who gets back up when he should stay down. and the look in his eye is that he wants more. He wants to get in there and win.
He hasnt been surrounded by the best talent or coaches. Give the guy a break. The coaching staff is now better and the o-line has improved and will be dramtically better with last years draft. I know the knock on Carr is that he is too soft and that he puts christ over football. He doesnt have what it takes to be a winner. well being from San Antonio I have heard the same knock on another David and once he had a stable coaching stafff and some help look what he did. Also do you rockets fans remeber the knock on Hakeem, was that he was too soft and put his faith over the team. well look what he did once he had a good coaching staff and some help.

The point is that I believe that David is our QB who can be great with the help of a good staff and a good team and most importantly our support. so I am asking all the Texan fans who have been there since the oilers left town to show David Carr that we support him and want him to stay and be the QB that will lead our team to the Super Bowl. Go Texans and F* the Cowboys

yourfavoritetexan42
02-23-2007, 12:48 PM
He is a fighter...don't give up david... just take it as inspiration...and run with it.

TexansSB07
02-23-2007, 12:52 PM
I suuport and respect what you say, I always liked David, he has always been upfront and honest even opening parts of his life he may not be comfortable showing (his son's juvenile diabetes). I say once more with feeling, but if he drops the ball mid-season I think he needs to sit and reevaluate what he wants

HOU-TEX
02-23-2007, 12:52 PM
Okay here's my support.:bubble:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Adams_Jockstrap.JPG

real
02-23-2007, 12:52 PM
I don't understand post like this...

It's like some of you guys are Carr fans and not neccessarily Texan fans.

If that's the case.....I totally understand.

B.Diddy
02-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Okay here's my support.:bubble:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Adams_Jockstrap.JPG

hahahahaha lmao thats wayyyy more support than i can offer

spurstexanstros
02-23-2007, 12:57 PM
No fan of the name on the front of the jersey, but everyone likes to pile on the name on the back of the #8 and no one else on the team or franchise gets as much heat. Not even the other #1. there are hundres of pile on or trade david threads. lets keep one going that shows our support.

spurstexanstros
02-23-2007, 01:00 PM
see what I mean. with fans like that would you want to give up body for the team. showing a jock strap that is on the IQ level of a cowboy fan.

B.Diddy
02-23-2007, 01:01 PM
No fan of the name on the front of the jersey, but everyone likes to pile on the name on the back of the #8 and no one else on the team or franchise gets as much heat. Not even the other #1. there are hundres of pile on or trade david threads. lets keep one going that shows our support.

If thats the case why don't you change your name to SpursCarrAstros it would be more truthful

Honoring Earl 34
02-23-2007, 01:07 PM
Everybody

I guess all the Carr haters would just call me an apologist and anyone who posts on this thread would be labeled as such. Heck for my support of #8 I have been accused of being in his family. From what I understand his brother does post here and he(david) may even read this crap. This is not total blind love of David Carr thread. I know he has made mistakes and this year there were some games in which he looked like he had post-traumatic stress syndrome. He isnt the home town kid, he isnt the heisman winner nor the second coming of warren moon. What he is is a damn good quarterback, who gets back up when he should stay down. and the look in his eye is that he wants more. He wants to get in there and win.
He hasnt been surrounded by the best talent or coaches. Give the guy a break. The coaching staff is now better and the o-line has improved and will be dramtically better with last years draft. I know the knock on Carr is that he is too soft and that he puts christ over football. He doesnt have what it takes to be a winner. well being from San Antonio I have heard the same knock on another David and once he had a stable coaching stafff and some help look what he did. Also do you rockets fans remeber the knock on Hakeem, was that he was too soft and put his faith over the team. well look what he did once he had a good coaching staff and some help.

The point is that I believe that David is our QB who can be great with the help of a good staff and a good team and most importantly our support. so I am asking all the Texan fans who have been there since the oilers left town to show David Carr that we support him and want him to stay and be the QB that will lead our team to the Super Bowl. Go Texans and F* the Cowboys

Lima now checks his sign .... Sosa digs in ... here's the stretch and the pitch ... SWUNG ON ... OH MY ... IT's NOT A MATTER IF IT"S GONE BUT HOW FAR . This one's a 85 mph Lima fastball down the middle .

TexansLucky13
02-23-2007, 01:07 PM
If thats the case why don't you change your name to SpursCarrAstros it would be more truthful

Your signature disturbs me because I recognize what it means.... :tease:

Anyways, I love David and I love the Texans. I want David to be here, but if he gets traded, I will just have to get over it and wish him the best of luck. I will never let a Carr basher win a fight, though. I never have.

Carr Bashers aint got $%^& on me!!

Texanfan4ever
02-23-2007, 01:20 PM
If thats the case why don't you change your name to SpursCarrAstros it would be more truthful

I am a Texan fan first and foremost but as everyone here knows, I have always been a supporter of David. So count me in. I've been asked if I was his father before too.

I want him to succeed wherever he is, I just want it to be here.:yes:

spurstexanstros
02-23-2007, 01:23 PM
All right, that is what im talking about . Lets show him some love . and carr bashers there are your other 100 anti-carr threads go to them please.

Texas_Thrill
02-23-2007, 01:24 PM
At this point I want him to succeed not b/c quite frankly I don't see a better option than him. This year's QB draft and FA or trade possibilities don't look any better than Carr IMO.

I'll give him another season

Double Barrel
02-23-2007, 01:49 PM
I will cheer on whoever is the Houston Texans starting QB in 2007, even David Carr. :texflag:

But I still have the right as a fan to analyze his play on the field. Praise where it is due, and criticism where it is warranted.

houstonhurricane
02-23-2007, 01:54 PM
As long as he wears a Texans' jersey, he has my support!

B.Diddy
02-23-2007, 02:23 PM
[QUOTE=TexansLucky13;603188]Your signature disturbs me because I recognize what it means.... :tease:

What exactly does it mean.................................


I have always liked david Carr's character i believe he is a geniune good person now haveing said that i feel a change would be the best for his career a new team with a good Oline new fans and a clean slate would give his career new life. I just feel that it's a dark cloud over his head in houston and he might not ever be able to over come it.

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 02:33 PM
I don't understand post like this...

It's like some of you guys are Carr fans and not neccessarily Texan fans.

If that's the case.....I totally understand.

I'm a Texans fan first and for most. David Carr is part of the equation as to why after five years were in a leaking boat. Where you and I devege company my friend is that you believe DC is the great satin and I do not. The great satin has been from day one not building the franchise from the inside out. To start over with a rookie or stop gap vet with Plummer...pick any vet on the market, isn't just bad. It's a disater. First you're going to have an A.J. problem very shortly down the road. Secondly barring which method you choose the free agent or the vet stop gap, you're going to have to make the pick of another rookie QB this draft or next to groom. Which means you're by passing a critical need position guy with that first or second round guy. Then you're going to have to start figuring out which guys on the wrong side of five years you're going to keep and who gets replace. You guys have it in your minds that replacing DC automatiacly means imrpovement. What it means in the next three years the team will have a significant turn over. DC dumping is not the magic bean some of you are making it out to be. And if I don't swallow your bildge, how, If I think it is in the best interset of the team overall, and your opinion is dead wrong, does that make me any less of a fan ? Because I can see the dominoes strewn across the floor and you can not ? You know they get the goods for David and pull the trigger, I can live with that. The question on my Texan's mind is why from your corner if the opposoite happens, you can not. In my book someone is a fair weather fan indeed.

spurstexanstros
02-23-2007, 02:33 PM
good point. b Im hoping to clear that dark cloud. I have a question. do you think mario will be treated the same way Carr is? and if he sees how texans fans turn on their players will he stay?

Kaiser Toro
02-23-2007, 02:45 PM
good point. b Im hoping to clear that dark cloud. I have a question. do you think mario will be treated the same way Carr is? and if he sees how texans fans turn on their players will he stay?

Why do Carr fans have to deflect onto other players? Surely if you believe Carr is that good he should stand on his own and there be no need to bring others into a Carr discussion.

SamuraiSword
02-23-2007, 02:47 PM
see what I mean. with fans like that would you want to give up body for the team. showing a jock strap that is on the IQ level of a cowboy fan.

dude work on your grammar and humor as well. That was some funny stuff. I am giving him a rep for that one!

:rofl:

Hulk75
02-23-2007, 02:49 PM
I don't understand post like this...

It's like some of you guys are Carr fans and not neccessarily Texan fans.

If that's the case.....I totally understand.

Guess we could say the opposite for you.:dontknowa

HOU-TEX
02-23-2007, 02:53 PM
see what I mean. with fans like that would you want to give up body for the team. showing a jock strap that is on the IQ level of a cowboy fan.

LOL! I thought it was pretty funny.

Until you learn correct grammar, you might want to refrain from accusing other posters of having an "IQ of a cowboy". LOL:loser

P.S. A person that has an adage of Carr being Superman under his screen name is admitting to his/her sub par football IQ. Good day mate!

Texan_Bill
02-23-2007, 02:58 PM
Not a Carr supporter or Hater, but curious as to why ALL of the "HATERS" have to deflect everything to Carr? IF the question can be asked one way, than it begs to be asked the other way...

I want Carr gone as well, but NOT for the same reasons that haters do. I just think that it would be mutually beneficial. IMHO, David did not produce what he was asked to, and conversely the organization did nothing either. Therefore it would be a nice fresh start for both sides.

In addition, if Carr goes somewhere else, it would further expose the shortcomings (too many to list here) of this organization and yet, people would have to take a closer look at those issues rather than put all of the onus on one person / position...

real
02-23-2007, 02:58 PM
Guess we could say the opposite for you.:dontknowa

You can call it what you want...


It's kinda hard talking about Carr because he's your brother, and I try to be sensitive to that....

But you keep quoting me...


Honestly Hulk, I don't have any love or hate for any player...They don't know me....I don't know them...

I want to see the team I root for and invest so much time into get better and if that includes getting rid of your brother then so be it. No hard feelings, no feelings period. I don't have any emotional ties to any of the players one way or another. I wouldn't care who they traded as long as we get better. period.

Kaiser Toro
02-23-2007, 03:01 PM
Not a Carr supporter or Hater, but curious as to why ALL of the "HATERS" have to deflect everything to Carr? IF the question can be asked one way, than it begs to be asked the other way...

Example please.

Texan_Bill
02-23-2007, 03:03 PM
Example please.

From which of the 3000+ threads would you like me to pull from???

TexansLucky13
02-23-2007, 03:04 PM
Example please.

Example = Kaiser Toro

:shades:

NFLforher
02-23-2007, 03:06 PM
I'm a Texans fan first and for most. David Carr is part of the equation as to why after five years were in a leaking boat. Where you and I devege company my friend is that you believe DC is the great satin and I do not. The great satin has been from day one not building the franchise from the inside out. To start over with a rookie or stop gap vet with Plummer...pick any vet on the market, isn't just bad. It's a disater. First you're going to have an A.J. problem very shortly down the road. Secondly barring which method you choose the free agent or the vet stop gap, you're going to have to make the pick of another rookie QB this draft or next to groom. Which means you're by passing a critical need position guy with that first or second round guy. Then you're going to have to start figuring out which guys on the wrong side of five years you're going to keep and who gets replace. You guys have it in your minds that replacing DC automatiacly means imrpovement. What it means in the next three years the team will have a significant turn over. DC dumping is not the magic bean some of you are making it out to be. And if I don't swallow your bildge, how, If I think it is in the best interset of the team overall, and your opinion is dead wrong, does that make me any less of a fan ? Because I can see the dominoes strewn across the floor and you can not ? You know they get the goods for David and pull the trigger, I can live with that. The question on my Texan's mind is why from your corner if the opposoite happens, you can not. In my book someone is a fair weather fan indeed.

Wrong thread.

NFLforher
02-23-2007, 03:09 PM
Re: Show your support for David Carr here


NEVER!!!!!!!!

Then why are you posting on a support thread????

NFLforher
02-23-2007, 03:09 PM
Example = Kaiser Toro

:shades:


:secret: :doot:

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 03:13 PM
I'm a Texans fan first and for most. David Carr is part of the equation as to why after five years were in a leaking boat. Where you and I devege company my friend is that you believe DC is the great satin and I do not. The great satin has been from day one not building the franchise from the inside out. To start over with a rookie or stop gap vet with Plummer...pick any vet on the market, isn't just bad. It's a disater. First you're going to have an A.J. problem very shortly down the road. Secondly barring which method you choose the free agent or the vet stop gap, you're going to have to make the pick of another rookie QB this draft or next to groom. Which means you're by passing a critical need position guy with that first or second round guy. Then you're going to have to start figuring out which guys on the wrong side of five years you're going to keep and who gets replace. You guys have it in your minds that replacing DC automatiacly means imrpovement. What it means in the next three years the team will have a significant turn over. DC dumping is not the magic bean some of you are making it out to be. And if I don't swallow your bildge, how, If I think it is in the best interset of the team overall, and your opinion is dead wrong, does that make me any less of a fan ? Because I can see the dominoes strewn across the floor and you can not ? You know they get the goods for David and pull the trigger, I can live with that. The question on my Texan's mind is why from your corner if the opposoite happens, you can not. In my book someone is a fair weather fan indeed.

I can understand what you are saying. That guys like Andre, Pitts, Moulds, & Dunta don't want to be starting over, and we need to start winning. If we don't start winning, that those players will want to go to a winning team, like all the other high profile FAs. You're saying if we dump Carr, we'll have to find a replacement, and it'll take three years to groom him. A guy like Plummer won't do anything, but postpone the inevitable three year QB incubation period if we don't find our new QB in the'07 draft. & by the time he is ready to help us win, Andre, Pitts, Moulds, & Dunta would've moved on.

You're saying we need to put players around that core of guys, before we even worry about how good/bad our QB plays.

That makes sense to me. That line of thinking. You think pulling David would be equivalent to knocking over that first domino.

We, on the other hand, believe that not pulling David is equivalent to knocking over that first Domino. I agree, Andre & Dunta are going to walk, if we don't start winning, if we don't show a commitment to winning. If David is the best QB we can put out there on Sundays. If that's the best we can do, or if that's the best we are willing to have on this team, then how serious are we about winning?? David has not shown the slightest glimpse of being ready to start in this league. He can't go through progressions, he can't recognize mismatches, he can't beat a blitz, and he can't buy you time in or out of the pocket.

But hey, I'll support David being a Houston Texan in '07... but I think he should be holding a clip board trying to keep up with Kubes on the sideline. Let him be the #2 guy in training camp... let him prove that he can play at a very high level against the 2s & 3s in the Preseason, let him show that he understands the offense on the practice squad, and let him surprise the heck out of everyone when he comes in late in the 4th Qtr when we are blowing out some other team, or getting blown out. Let him show that he doesn't need three Qtrs to get "warmed up" Let him earn the job, and prove that he belongs on the field on Sunday, and not the sideline. If nothing else, let him get to week 4 without avg 4 sacks a game.

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 03:19 PM
In addition, if Carr goes somewhere else, it would further expose the shortcomings (too many to list here) of this organization and yet, people would have to take a closer look at those issues rather than put all of the onus on one person / position...

That's insane. We know our offensive line needs to get better. We understand our defense isn't in the top half of the league. We understand we need better running backs, We understand we need better Corners & Safeties. We know we need to get more pressure on the QB.

But you name it, DE, DT, CB, Safeties, LBs, TEs, WRs, RBs, LTs, Guards, Centers, FBs we've been swaping them for 5 years now. All we ask is the same commitment to making this team better as it relates to the QB position.

hollywood_texan
02-23-2007, 03:23 PM
I'm a Texans fan first and for most. David Carr is part of the equation as to why after five years were in a leaking boat. Where you and I devege company my friend is that you believe DC is the great satin and I do not. The great satin has been from day one not building the franchise from the inside out. To start over with a rookie or stop gap vet with Plummer...pick any vet on the market, isn't just bad. It's a disater. First you're going to have an A.J. problem very shortly down the road. Secondly barring which method you choose the free agent or the vet stop gap, you're going to have to make the pick of another rookie QB this draft or next to groom. Which means you're by passing a critical need position guy with that first or second round guy. Then you're going to have to start figuring out which guys on the wrong side of five years you're going to keep and who gets replace. You guys have it in your minds that replacing DC automatiacly means imrpovement. What it means in the next three years the team will have a significant turn over. DC dumping is not the magic bean some of you are making it out to be. And if I don't swallow your bildge, how, If I think it is in the best interset of the team overall, and your opinion is dead wrong, does that make me any less of a fan ? Because I can see the dominoes strewn across the floor and you can not ? You know they get the goods for David and pull the trigger, I can live with that. The question on my Texan's mind is why from your corner if the opposoite happens, you can not. In my book someone is a fair weather fan indeed.

One definition of satin is "a fabric in a warp-effect or filling-effect satin weave, as acetate, rayon, nylon, or silk, often having a glossy face and a soft, slippery texture." I believe you meant to write Satan.

Your posts are hard to read. I am not the best writer and I make mistakes. But I think you need to work on that a little. I am just trying to nicely point this out.

Also, you talk about drafting a rookie would be a mistake in replacing Carr. That argument doesn't work in your favor. Have you heard of guy named Vince Young?

carrfan4life08
02-23-2007, 03:27 PM
Im a big supporter of david carr. But if you guys think hes no good your dead wrong. He has played on a team who has the worst o line i ever seen. he doesnt have the help he needs to suceed. He been hit more times then any other qb in this league without a question and all you guys do its throw him under the bus for it. I am sick and tired of people who complain about carr. He does not deserve this. I hope he goes to a team that appriciates his hard work. Houston does not deserve him

bpe3
02-23-2007, 03:29 PM
Here's a request for all David Carr fans. From now on, please classify yourself into one of the following catagories:

1. David Carr's immediate family. I respect the fact that you want him to make lots of money so you can ride the gravy train.

2. Ex-Enron Executives. I understand that you are impressed that David can LEGALLY steal millions of dollars from a major corporation like the NFL.

3. Those suffering from Helsinki Syndrome. You know the ones. The hostages who enventually come to support the causes of their captors.

By doing this, you will help the rest of us know where you are coming from.
Thank you.

:stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:

Texan_Bill
02-23-2007, 03:36 PM
That's insane. We know our offensive line needs to get better. We understand our defense isn't in the top half of the league. We understand we need better running backs, We understand we need better Corners & Safeties. We know we need to get more pressure on the QB.

But you name it, DE, DT, CB, Safeties, LBs, TEs, WRs, RBs, LTs, Guards, Centers, FBs we've been swaping them for 5 years now. All we ask is the same commitment to making this team better as it relates to the QB position.

I know it, you know it, but it was completely ludicrous to hear how DC blew this game and blew that game - completely by himself, all season long.

My point was if Carr is removed from the equation, than blame can not be passed solely to him. People (some on this board) could really open their eyes and see that this debacle that has been the last 5 years is not solely on DC.

TK, I have read many of your posts and you are one that cites many areas of concern with respect to this team. There are other folks on this board, who make it their sole mission in life to rip Carr (they are the ones that I call Haters). Whether you (not TK individually, but folks in general) think he is "the guy" or "not the guy" really doesn't matter to me, as long as it is backed up with fact and NOT that "he sucks".

For the record, I wanted Peppers to be our first pick - not a rookie QB to start for an expansion team.

In short, it was one of those statements, that if it applies to you read it, if it doesn't apply to you, move on and read the next post.

ROCKY
02-23-2007, 03:40 PM
This thread is like a small rich boy walking into a bad neighborhood...just begging to be beaten and robbed.

I have had the pleasure of working w/david on some of his many charitable functions. And when he talks about the team, you see it in his eyes how bad he wants this team to win.

To have to take the constant beating that he has taken (physically and mentally) is superhuman. I could not respect him any more as a human being. He has had alot of problems on the field in his short career. That being said...I would support a trade FOR PROPER VALUE only. And Im sorry, but Jake Plummer is not an upgrade.

I hope that if he does stay, that our FO can give him what he needs to shut all these bitter armchair QBs up. Bottom line is: He has made many mistakes, but as long as he wears the steel blue, I got his back.

:fans:

B.Diddy
02-23-2007, 03:43 PM
good point. b Im hoping to clear that dark cloud. I have a question. do you think mario will be treated the same way Carr is? and if he sees how texans fans turn on their players will he stay?

I think if mario Williams our other number 1 pick dosen't produce he will be gone sooner than 5 years. This is a buisness not a marriage we don't need counciling we need results it's a results based buisness fans love you today and hate you tomorrow yes i know its cold blooded but thats why their are taught to have thick skin and are paid millions.:survivor:

Exithios
02-23-2007, 03:47 PM
I beleive that Carr has gotten a little better every year for the past 5 years.

-He has learned to move out of the pocket when it starts to close in.

-He has learned to tuck and run when his receivers are covered.

-He has gotten better at decision making during the option plays and recognizing defenses.

-He has gotten better at recognizing the blitz.

Now if he can learn to not lock on AJ every time a pass play is called and scan the field for the open receiver (which I beleive to be his worst fault during the 06 season) I think the passing game will automaticly improve. If the left tackle spot is shored up (be it with Spencer, in the FA, or in the draft) then that will buy him more time to make better coverage reads. If the running game sees some improvement from this past year then the playaction and the option becomes an asset. When he improves in all of these aspects then he can mold himself into a more active leadership role.

I will not state that I am a Carr hater nor a fan, but I am above all else a Texan fan. If Carr is in it for another year then it is because they beleive that Carr is not a lost cause and I support that 100%. I simply wanted to point out that it is not the end of the world if Carr is under center next season wearing a Texans uniform. He just does not deserve to be portrayed as the devils advocate, he is only human afterall.

Go Texans!

Keldar
02-23-2007, 03:55 PM
I would give him another year here.

This off-season, fix the line, fix the RB, and see what happens.

Second Honeymoon
02-23-2007, 04:11 PM
can we please rename this thread to the 'official Carr homers thread'

geez, it seems like any supporter of Carr is either a family member or a resident of California.

screw Carr and the horse that he rode in on.

TEXANRED
02-23-2007, 04:24 PM
I know it, you know it, but it was completely ludicrous to hear how DC blew this game and blew that game - completely by himself, all season long.



I am not into bashing the guy but you would have to admit he single handedly lost the Titan game in Tenn. What did he have, like 5 fumbles, three for a loss, one returned for a TD and threw 2 picks, all in the first half.

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 04:36 PM
I am not into bashing the guy but you would have to admit he single handedly lost the Titan game in Tenn. What did he have, like 5 fumbles, three for a loss, one returned for a TD and threw 2 picks, all in the first half.

Yes but i did see him put us in position to win some games and the D blow the game.

Texan_Bill
02-23-2007, 04:41 PM
I am not into bashing the guy but you would have to admit he single handedly lost the Titan game in Tenn. What did he have, like 5 fumbles, three for a loss, one returned for a TD and threw 2 picks, all in the first half.

Beleive me when I tell you, that that game was miserable and there have been others along the way where I have just scratched my head (along with yelling some really choice cuss words) too . I won't use the lame O-line excuse either (although it still - 5 years later needs to be addressed), like some apologists will. Bottom line, he needs to learn to hold on to the football. He certainly is not Warren Moon that can overcome those fumbling issues, as Moon had to do in his career.

I just don't think throwing him to the wolves in his rookie season - with an expansion team - was the right thing to do. I think most everyone put unrealistic expectations on him from the get, including Ownership, managememnt, coaching staff and the fans... Especially after beating the 'Gurls.

I think a fresh start for both sides will do wonders if thats the route the organization goes. IF Carr does return and start in '07, so be it. I will be at every home game and at every watch party cheering 'them' on. (Them would include the QB position).

Afterall, (I have to go for the cheese here) I'm a Texan!!

I know, I know........

Just
02-23-2007, 04:55 PM
:drunk: It is of my humble opinion.....:um: that David will lead us into the playoffs in 2007....:drunk: I predict a breakout year for him and the Texans. And furthermore...:zzz:

Texans Horror
02-23-2007, 04:57 PM
I am not into bashing the guy but you would have to admit he single handedly lost the Titan game in Tenn. What did he have, like 5 fumbles, three for a loss, one returned for a TD and threw 2 picks, all in the first half.


Ha! Personally, I put the blame for the loss of that game squarely on Weigert and Salaam. NO WAY we lose that game if the tackles could have kept the Titans from double-crunching Carr.

I think Carr is a phenomenal athlete and an asset to the club. Every QB makes bone-headed decisions. I remember watching Favre throw interception after interception last year against the Bengals.

Carr is not the problem. Anybody who thinks otherwise should look at some facts about David Carr:

1. Brett Favre can throw a football over 50 yards. David Carr can throw Brett Favre even further.
2. When David Carr enters a stadium, he doesn't turn the lights on, he turns the dark off.
3. The grass is always greener in an outdoor stadium, unless David Carr has been there. In that case the grass is most likely soaked in blood and tears.

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 04:57 PM
dont ya just love sarcasim !?!?!?

jerenns
02-23-2007, 05:04 PM
It doesn't make sense that Carr takes as much of the blame as he does. Does anyone really think Jake Plummer is better-I don't! If Carr had a solid line and a premier RB I believe he could be a top QB. Even Peyton Manning looks horrible when he's under pressure-so stop throwing Carr all the blame and lets actually work as a team unit not just blaming David Carr every time something bad happens.

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 05:05 PM
I am not into bashing the guy but you would have to admit he single handedly lost the Titan game in Tenn. What did he have, like 5 fumbles, three for a loss, one returned for a TD and threw 2 picks, all in the first half.

2 fumbles, both lost, one returned for a TD. 1 interception is all I remember. The score was 14-3 Tennessee when he left the game at the beginning of the third Qtr, we lost 28-22, with Sage playing for basically a whole half. If AJ would have caught that ball that bounced off his shoulder pads into Pacman's (whom he clearly had beat) hands, we still could have won that game.

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 05:20 PM
Ha! Personally, I put the blame for the loss of that game squarely on Weigert and Salaam. NO WAY we lose that game if the tackles could have kept the Titans from double-crunching Carr.

In all fairness to Salaam, there was a play early in that game, after David's second sack(neither Salaam's fault), Ron Dayne ran off LT... Salaam was his lead blocker. As Salaam was squaring up to block one of two Linebakers, the first one dove and hit him square & hard in the knees. the second one came & hit him again at the knees, then Ron Dayne fell on top of him.

Salaam went out, Bedell came in David was sacked again, and Salaam was thrown back out there.

David's not the only one who's taken shots for this team.

& I bring this up to say if you're going to blame anyone for this loss, pointing at the Tackles, blame Kubiak. He never should have let Wand go, if Bedell was the best FA he could find to back up Salaam. It's not like Seth was making any money to worry about.

Goldeagle
02-23-2007, 05:23 PM
I support Carr.

Now will the team support him and get an O-line in front of him?

Ibar_Harry
02-23-2007, 05:56 PM
My message remains the same. David is a very good QB who has been placed on the worst possible team he could have been placed and VY has had the opposite experience. VY landed on a somewhat talented team with an outstanding HC and an excellent QB coach who were going to adapt their team around the talents of VY. Fisher has said this in no uncertain terms. That is not what happened with David and that has been the whole problem from day 1.

I'm saying when you spend as much money as the Texans did for David then you are obligated to spend additional money in a way to make that investment payoff. The Texans have never done that. Part of the problem of course was the really unexpected loss of MR. B who they thought would be the ultimate LT to protect David. There is no question, but that was probably very true. That didn't happen though and the rest is history.

Yes, they spent a lot of money on AJ, but two players do not make a team in the NFL. Yes, we had DD and he did a lot, but he was also wasted as it turns out. For all of the talent we had, we never invested in an O-line. I still can not understand why.

Here we are talking about the O-line possibly being better next year, but how can you figure on that. Wiegert, bless his heart is a year older, what we had as a LT this year is a year older and a walking hospital case, Spencer is where, and McKinney is a year older. Please give me a break and tell me just why you have optomism regarding the O-line. The front office certainly isn't talking O-line.

I'm sorry, but I really don't believe the problem is David in many ways. Neither do I believe its the fault of the other players, rather I believe it was and continues to be a big management problem. I simply don't believe there is anyway to fix the problem because too many words have been spoken and management is not about to fix the real problem.

If they would have hired Tedford then I think David would have had a chance to overcome the problems. That wasn't going to happen for a whole lot of reasons and Kubiak's style of play calling and coaching just don't fit David. David has tried to make it work, but there is no way he could have made it work. It really isn't a mater of who is right or wrong or anything else. David has never been a good fit for what the Texan's coaching staff wanted to do offensively.

I think it is time for David to move on to a team who will mold an offense around David in away that takes advantage of his strengths rather than his weaknesses. I think David would fit in nicely with the Bears because of Smith and Berrian. I'm certain David could find other places as well, but I think David must be very careful in where he decides to go. He has but a few years remaining and it would be nice to see him accomplish something given all of the abuse he has suffered both physically and mentally.

Its like in a bad marriage when one partner wants to make it work and the other one doesn't or won't make it work. You just can not force a marriage to work. I think David has done what every coach has asked him to do, but it has been to no avail. The Texans have just never had all of the parts on one side of the ball and seem to have no vision that can be seen.

In reality the Texans probably should let David and the offensive side of the ball club go and concentrate on the defensive side. Build one side before trying to build the other side. They can not do both simultaneously because they have too many needs. Yes, the Texans probably need to start all over again.

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 05:59 PM
It doesn't make sense that Carr takes as much of the blame as he does. Does anyone really think Jake Plummer is better-I don't! If Carr had a solid line and a premier RB I believe he could be a top QB. Even Peyton Manning looks horrible when he's under pressure-so stop throwing Carr all the blame and lets actually work as a team unit not just blaming David Carr every time something bad happens.

thats just the way it goes, if our o-line gives up 10 sacks a game its carrs fault, if our D blows a lead its carrs fault, if gas prices rise ;) its carrs fault. Its part of the cruel world of beign a sports celebrity. Even though football is a team sport we place the blame on one individual. Funny how it works huh !!!

2BCF
02-23-2007, 06:01 PM
I don't understand post like this...

It's like some of you guys are Carr fans and not neccessarily Texan fans.

If that's the case.....I totally understand.

That's exactly what it is. :shades:

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 06:27 PM
That's exactly what it is. :shades:

well i think ur name tells how you feel about Carr. Atleast there wont be any confusion on how you feel :tease:

New_Texans
02-23-2007, 07:06 PM
Good luck David, i believe that you can play well. However, you must understand that you need to improve your game as well.

amazingandre
02-23-2007, 07:17 PM
david carr is a good qb.......i like him and think he can be a great leader..........we need to post more the didain thread is catching us lol

Second Honeymoon
02-23-2007, 08:33 PM
My message remains the same. David is a very good QB who has been placed on the worst possible team he could have been placed and VY has had the opposite experience. VY landed on a somewhat talented team with an outstanding HC and an excellent QB coach who were going to adapt their team around the talents of VY. Fisher has said this in no uncertain terms. That is not what happened with David and that has been the whole problem from day 1.

I'm saying when you spend as much money as the Texans did for David then you are obligated to spend additional money in a way to make that investment payoff. The Texans have never done that. Part of the problem of course was the really unexpected loss of MR. B who they thought would be the ultimate LT to protect David. There is no question, but that was probably very true. That didn't happen though and the rest is history.

Yes, they spent a lot of money on AJ, but two players do not make a team in the NFL. Yes, we had DD and he did a lot, but he was also wasted as it turns out. For all of the talent we had, we never invested in an O-line. I still can not understand why.

Here we are talking about the O-line possibly being better next year, but how can you figure on that. Wiegert, bless his heart is a year older, what we had as a LT this year is a year older and a walking hospital case, Spencer is where, and McKinney is a year older. Please give me a break and tell me just why you have optomism regarding the O-line. The front office certainly isn't talking O-line.

I'm sorry, but I really don't believe the problem is David in many ways. Neither do I believe its the fault of the other players, rather I believe it was and continues to be a big management problem. I simply don't believe there is anyway to fix the problem because too many words have been spoken and management is not about to fix the real problem.

If they would have hired Tedford then I think David would have had a chance to overcome the problems. That wasn't going to happen for a whole lot of reasons and Kubiak's style of play calling and coaching just don't fit David. David has tried to make it work, but there is no way he could have made it work. It really isn't a mater of who is right or wrong or anything else. David has never been a good fit for what the Texan's coaching staff wanted to do offensively.

I think it is time for David to move on to a team who will mold an offense around David in away that takes advantage of his strengths rather than his weaknesses. I think David would fit in nicely with the Bears because of Smith and Berrian. I'm certain David could find other places as well, but I think David must be very careful in where he decides to go. He has but a few years remaining and it would be nice to see him accomplish something given all of the abuse he has suffered both physically and mentally.

Its like in a bad marriage when one partner wants to make it work and the other one doesn't or won't make it work. You just can not force a marriage to work. I think David has done what every coach has asked him to do, but it has been to no avail. The Texans have just never had all of the parts on one side of the ball and seem to have no vision that can be seen.

In reality the Texans probably should let David and the offensive side of the ball club go and concentrate on the defensive side. Build one side before trying to build the other side. They can not do both simultaneously because they have too many needs. Yes, the Texans probably need to start all over again.

here is a quarter. buy a clue you homer.

oh and on a sidenote...feel free to update your paleolithic era avatar....its about as fresh as optimism about David Carr

you tools amaze me sometime

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 08:47 PM
My message remains the same. David is a very good QB who has been placed on the worst possible team he could have been placed and VY has had the opposite experience. VY landed on a somewhat talented team with an outstanding HC and an excellent QB coach who were going to adapt their team around the talents of VY. Fisher has said this in no uncertain terms. That is not what happened with David and that has been the whole problem from day 1.


I knew it was only a matter of time before someone exagerated the talent of the Tennessee Titans. I knew it. They are no more talented than the Houston Texans, which is why most of us.. yourself included... figured we would sweep the Titans in '06. Actually, we thought we would sweep the Titans, because we felt we had more talent than the Titans.

& yeah, some of Tennessee's offense was tailored to their QB, and lack of talent at WR... but he was still asked to adapt to the NFL, & take the majority of his snaps from under center.

The knock on Vince, was that he wouldn't be able to adapt to the NFL, and now it seems the NFL is going to have to adapt to him.

But, that's neither here nor there. We've got a QB that played in a college system that is much closer to what NFL teams run in the NFL, than what was ran at UT in '05. How has our QB adapted to playing in the NFL?? Has he made the transition yet??

& if you were going to design your offense around him, what would you do?? what kind of plays would you put in for him?? what kinds of formation??

& Don't tell me about the personnel you'd bring in, because that fella in tennessee didn't have anything special brought in. They got a Center... We got a center. They got a WR, we got a WR..... only ours was able to play, and theirs wasn't.

They got 1662 yards from their RBs, we only got 1492. 170 yards difference, 10 yards per game.

They have 8 games where their RBs rushed for less than 100 yards, and never had a 100 yard game(by their RBs) three games in a row. Where the Texans have only had 7 games under 100 yards, and a 5 game streak of 100 rushing yards or more.

The Titans RBs have had 3 games with less than 40 yards rushing, We have had 2.

Defensively, the Titans are dead last in Total D. We were 24th. They were 30th against the run, we were 20th. They allowed 20 rushing TDs, we allowed 16. They were 27th against the pass, we were 22nd. They allowed 24 passing TDs, we allowed 22. They got to the QB 26 times, we got to them 28 times.

They are not a more talented team than we are.


Yes, they spent a lot of money on AJ, but two players do not make a team in the NFL. Yes, we had DD and he did a lot, but he was also wasted as it turns out. For all of the talent we had, we never invested in an O-line. I still can not understand why.

Just because we never took an offensive lineman in the first round, doesn't mean we never invested in the OL. We've taken two offensive linemen on the first day in 2002, one in 2003, We drafted a Center(5th round) in 2005, and two tackles on the first day in 2006. That's 5 first day picks, 6 picks overall, in a 5 year period.


Here we are talking about the O-line possibly being better next year, but how can you figure on that. Wiegert, bless his heart is a year older, what we had as a LT this year is a year older and a walking hospital case, Spencer is where, and McKinney is a year older. Please give me a break and tell me just why you have optomism regarding the O-line. The front office certainly isn't talking O-line.

Time, they've got a system to learn, just like the QB.... the biggest benefit any offensive line can have, is playing together. The longer you have your starters playing together, the better. What should be our starting Line in '07 has been playing together for the last 3 games. All we need is our LT. having one guy trying to learn the system is going to be better than having 5 guys trying to learn the system.

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 08:52 PM
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone exagerated the talent of the Tennessee Titans. I knew it. They are no more talented than the Houston Texans, which is why most of us.. yourself included... figured we would sweep the Titans in '06. Actually, we thought we would sweep the Titans, because we felt we had more talent than the Titans.

& yeah, some of Tennessee's offense was tailored to their QB, and lack of talent at WR... but he was still asked to adapt to the NFL, & take the majority of his snaps from under center.

The knock on Vince, was that he wouldn't be able to adapt to the NFL, and now it seems the NFL is going to have to adapt to him.

But, that's neither here nor there. We've got a QB that played in a college system that is much closer to what NFL teams run in the NFL, than what was ran at UT in '05. How has our QB adapted to playing in the NFL?? Has he made the transition yet??

& if you were going to design your offense around him, what would you do?? what kind of plays would you put in for him?? what kinds of formation??

& Don't tell me about the personnel you'd bring in, because that fella in tennessee didn't have anything special brought in. They got a Center... We got a center. They got a WR, we got a WR..... only ours was able to play, and theirs wasn't.

They got 1662 yards from their RBs, we only got 1492. 170 yards difference, 10 yards per game.

They have 8 games where their RBs rushed for less than 100 yards, and never had a 100 yard game(by their RBs) three games in a row. Where the Texans have only had 7 games under 100 yards, and a 5 game streak of 100 rushing yards or more.

The Titans RBs have had 3 games with less than 40 yards rushing, We have had 2.

Defensively, the Titans are dead last in Total D. We were 24th. They were 30th against the run, we were 20th. They allowed 20 rushing TDs, we allowed 16. They were 27th against the pass, we were 22nd. They allowed 24 passing TDs, we allowed 22. They got to the QB 26 times, we got to them 28 times.

They are not a more talented team than we are.


Just because we never took an offensive lineman in the first round, doesn't mean we never invested in the OL. We've taken two offensive linemen on the first day in 2002, one in 2003, We drafted a Center(5th round) in 2005, and two tackles on the first day in 2006. That's 5 first day picks, 6 picks overall, in a 5 year period.


Time, they've got a system to learn, just like the QB.... the biggest benefit any offensive line can have, is playing together. The longer you have your starters playing together, the better. What should be our starting Line in '07 has been playing together for the last 3 games. All we need is our LT. having one guy trying to learn the system is going to be better than having 5 guys trying to learn the system.

I dont think Vince is much different than M Vick, once you learn how to play him and play his game he cant do much, i mean look at Vick sure he's exciting to watch but how many rings does he have ?

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 09:18 PM
I dont think Vince is much different than M Vick, once you learn how to play him and play his game he cant do much, i mean look at Vick sure he's exciting to watch but how many rings does he have ?

& that's not the point. The point is that the Titans had a better W/L record than we did, with many of the same problems we are facing. Defensively, they don't put as much pressure on the QB as we do. They've got a corner, a LB, and a DE worth talking about.

Offensively, our WRs are better. Flat out, no ifs, ands, or buts. & our run games weren't all that dissimilar.

But they've got more wins....

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 09:20 PM
& that's not the point. The point is that the Titans had a better W/L record than we did, with many of the same problems we are facing. Defensively, they don't put as much pressure on the QB as we do. They've got a corner, a LB, and a DE worth talking about.

Offensively, our WRs are better. Flat out, no ifs, ands, or buts. & our run games weren't all that dissimilar.

But they've got more wins....

Is their O-Line better than ours, i mean the stats will be misleading since Young is a scrambler but from what you've seen, is their O-Line better than ours ?

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 09:27 PM
Is their O-Line better than ours, i mean the stats will be misleading since Young is a scrambler but from what you've seen, is their O-Line better than ours ?

What do you think?? Like you said, you can't judge by sacks, since their QB is pretty hard to bring down.

But their run game has been less consistent than ours....

But I doubt they'll be thinking about OL on the first day of the draft, and I think we should.

TwinSisters
02-23-2007, 10:00 PM
But they've got more wins....

Better coaches.

Navy_Chris
02-23-2007, 10:50 PM
Oh yeah, I personally think Carr should stay because there is no one available that is better and I would like to see how he plays this coming season after all of this turmoil, and a 2nd season under Kubes system with another descent offseason. Smell a turnaround :shades:

You must have a VERY good sense of smell. It just smells like ******* to me.

TwinSisters
02-23-2007, 10:51 PM
If you use the metric of games that "could have" been won like the Bills and Giants game

Then you have to apply that to the Titans also
They have 4 games that they could have easily won
Jets
Dolphins
Colts
Ravens

The Titans 'could have' been 12-4
The Texans 'could have' been 10-6

Navy_Chris
02-23-2007, 10:55 PM
If you use the metric of games that "could have" been won like the Bills and Giants game

Then you have to apply that to the Titans also
They have 4 games that they could have easily won
Jets
Dolphins
Colts
Ravens

The Titans 'could have' been 12-4
The Texans 'could have' been 10-6

coulda, woulda, shoulda....

maybe next year we can go 7-9!! YES!! a whole game difference. break out the confetti for the big party. woohoo.

This team has been poorly run since its inception in 2002. If this team REFUSES to acknowledge the need to move David Carr out of Houston, it will just be the icing on the cake. In all fairness, Gary should've gotten rid of him when he got here. It makes perfect sense....struggling QB, new coach, NEW QB. It's not rocket science.

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 11:06 PM
Better coaches.

That's what I would think as well.... my point, is that our talent isn't as bad as the Carr Homers say we are.

Talent wise, I'd put us in the area of the Jets & KC, and easily as good as Buffalo, Jacksonville & Tennessee, if any of those teams are thinking playoffs in '07, I think we should be as well.

The Jets & Kansas City got into the play-offs this year, KC at 9-7... there's no reason to believe that couldn't have been us.

We need to get more talent on this team.... we need to upgrade several positions, and increase our depth.. But those teams are thinking the same thing.

We don't need to be waiting for a ProBowl RB, OLT, Center, RG & TE before we start expecting to have a winning season.

Silver Oak
02-23-2007, 11:13 PM
DC, like the entire Texans team, has my support until he proves without a doubt that he can't get the job done, when most of the proper tools are in place.

Go Texans!

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 11:19 PM
DC, like the entire Texans team, has my support until he proves without a doubt that he can't get the job done, when most of the proper tools are in place.

Go Texans!

For all we know, we're chasing our tail. If we keep changing every piece but one, and the whole never gets fixed, we've got to change the way we're going about fixing it.

Ibar_Harry
02-23-2007, 11:22 PM
For all we know, we're chasing our tail. If we keep changing every piece but one, and the whole never gets fixed, we've got to change the way we're going about fixing it.

Or the replacement parts are damaged upon delivery and should be returned to the sender.

TwinSisters
02-23-2007, 11:29 PM
I meant coaches?
not coaches.

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 11:44 PM
Or the replacement parts are damaged upon delivery and should be returned to the sender.

Of course, that must be it. It makes absolute sense, that every piece we've selected other than the very first piece is broke.:ok:

Let's try this again
02-23-2007, 11:48 PM
no thanx

J-Storm
02-24-2007, 12:08 AM
If the Texans FO decides to stick with Carr, then I am all for giving him my 101% support. If they decide to let him go though (hopefully to the Vikings being my 2nd fav team) then David will still get my 101% support to succeed wherever he is...

cuppacoffee
02-24-2007, 12:51 AM
LOL! I thought it was pretty funny.

Until you learn correct grammar, you might want to refrain from accusing other posters of having an "IQ of a cowboy". LOL

P.S. A person that has an adage of Carr being Superman under his screen name is admitting to his/her sub par football IQ. Good day mate!

Title of thread..."Show your support for David Carr here"..:hmmm:

Seems some of our higher IQ? posters are having a reading comprehension problem. They are predictable to say the least..:thumbdown

Exactly what were you expecting to read on this thread...:crazy:



:coffee:

cuppacoffee
02-24-2007, 01:03 AM
Of course, that must be it. It makes absolute sense, that every piece we've selected other than the very first piece is broke.:

TK Did you clik on the wrong thread? This is the "Show your support for David Carr here" thread...:shades:

I think you are looking for the "Show your distain for David Carr here" thread. :bubble:


It's gotta be the water...:D

:coffee:

petedy
02-24-2007, 03:07 AM
Why do Carr fans have to deflect onto other players? Surely if you believe Carr is that good he should stand on his own and there be no need to bring others into a Carr discussion.
Why do you think it is up to one man and not up to the team as a whole?

NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 03:11 AM
...once we start a QB that knows how to work the pocket(protection), you people are going to be amazed-add in a vertical passing game and effective decision making and looky/looky-we got an NFL QB. Carr?

HOOK'EM
02-24-2007, 05:31 AM
Carr sucks are you kidding me!:drunk:

NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 06:53 AM
Why do you think it is up to one man and not up to the team as a whole?

...name 1 other team player that gets the same special treatment that Carr gets-- no competition, starts regardless of whether he is the best player, entire game plan is fitted to suit Carr, players are shuttled in and out to accomodate David's wants and needs,etc.,etc,

...team as a whole? OK...so when does the 'coddling' stop?

mancunian
02-24-2007, 07:34 AM
I want the Texans to win, and after all the knocks and hits I would love Carr to be the QB that leads us to our first winning season.

The team has talent - just not enough yet.

bigTEXan8
02-24-2007, 11:54 AM
i want a winning team on the field. if that means carr is the starting qb...then good. i fthat means he's somewhere else playing, i'll cheer for him there. irregardless, a winning qb doesn't make a winning team. jmo.

petedy
02-24-2007, 12:08 PM
...name 1 other team player that gets the same special treatment that Carr gets-- no competition, starts regardless of whether he is the best player, entire game plan is fitted to suit Carr, players are shuttled in and out to accomodate David's wants and needs,etc.,etc,

...team as a whole? OK...so when does the 'coddling' stop?

I think you are on the wrong post shouldn't you show your disdian for Carr on the other thread where you can be with rest of the haters.

petedy
02-24-2007, 12:17 PM
Carr sucks are you kidding me!:drunk:

Wrong post go to the other thread where you can say all matter of things about Carr and why he sucks then tell everyone about your football prowess. Then you can tell how you did that or this and you could've played in the NFL but were over looked because you were to busy giving towels to the football team.

NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 02:27 PM
I think you are on the wrong post shouldn't you show your disdian for Carr on the other thread where you can be with rest of the haters.

Texanstruefan is hogging the board and he went first....

HomeBred_Texan
02-24-2007, 02:43 PM
Give him some supporting casts. Like an O-Line and a talented RB like all day... Then I bet the Carr haters would be all over the bandwagon...

Until then, no one is gonna succeed in Houston. :challenge

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 02:46 PM
Give him some supporting casts. Like an O-Line and a talented RB like all day... Then I bet the Carr haters would be all over the bandwagon...

Until then, no one is gonna succeed in Houston. :challenge

Except the backups like Rosenfels and Banks who played better than him. Is this the same RBs that included DD, who was their best offensive option for years and the backups we had to depend on this year when we took the ball out of the QBs hands in order to win a few games?Just wondering...let me guess when a QB takes his place and does do well the cry will be "why didn't Carr have that line." When are people going to learn that the QB has lot more to do with the sack total than just the line.

HomeBred_Texan
02-24-2007, 02:51 PM
Except the backups like Rosenfels and Banks who played better than him. Is this the same RBs that included DD, who was their best offensive option and the backups we had to depend on this year when we took the ball out of the QBs hands in order to win a few games?Just wondering...let me guess when a QB takes his place and does do well the cry will be "why didn't Carr have that line." When are people going to learn that the QB has lot more to do with the sack total than just the line.

Well since you are just wondering... Then let's repeat the facts. Rosenfels has NOT played better than Carr, he played in a game that the other team had a huge lead in and played a soft zone defense. Like bend, but don't break... And when did Banks ever play better than anyone? At san Francisco? Give me a break....

And as for injury prone DD, he was a back-up running back for 31 other teams at best. We had an O-Line that accelled in run block but not pass block...

Texan_Bill
02-24-2007, 03:00 PM
When are people going to learn that the QB has lot more to do with the sack total than just the line.

We disagree!

Signed,
Randall Cunningham (484)
Dave Krieg (494)

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 03:28 PM
Well since you are just wondering... Then let's repeat the facts. Rosenfels has NOT played better than Carr, he played in a game that the other team had a huge lead in and played a soft zone defense. Like bend, but don't break... And when did Banks ever play better than anyone? At san Francisco? Give me a break....

And as for injury prone DD, he was a back-up running back for 31 other teams at best. We had an O-Line that accelled in run block but not pass block...

Completely untrue. The score was 21-3 and they weren't in a prevent the whole half. Once the Texans scored once it was a game again and they went back to their normal D. People act like it was 35-7 in the 4th quarter. He threw for 3 TDs and was still in there with the game on the line. Banks played better than Carr at times. He got wins that Carr didn't. People are lying to themselves if they didn't see a difference in the pocket between Rosenfels and Carr in those games. Does that make Rosenfels a stud?No. It just means that there is alot more to sacks and an offense then the black and white of line blocking and good QB play.

OK, so DD is injury prone and the O-line could run block where DD had good years..so doesn't that defeat the argument that he had no running game?And there was no answer why Ron Dayne can run well on 2 teams while we take the ball out the QBs hands. You can't have your excuses and eat it too. There is a reason why the RBs and lines on Tenn and Dallas both went from being killed in the media to an afterthought when other QBs stepped in. Both teams running game picked up and the lines didn't look half as bad.

NATHANHALE
02-24-2007, 03:30 PM
Well since you are just wondering... Then let's repeat the facts. Rosenfels has NOT played better than Carr, he played in a game that the other team had a huge lead in and played a soft zone defense. Like bend, but don't break... And when did Banks ever play better than anyone? At san Francisco? Give me a break....

And as for injury prone DD, he was a back-up running back for 31 other teams at best. We had an O-Line that accelled in run block but not pass block...

Explain. Carr threw for 3200yds/16 tds in '04 with more sacks than '06...excuses, please.

Texans Horror
02-24-2007, 03:40 PM
In all fairness to Salaam, there was a play early in that game, after David's second sack(neither Salaam's fault), Ron Dayne ran off LT... Salaam was his lead blocker. As Salaam was squaring up to block one of two Linebakers, the first one dove and hit him square & hard in the knees. the second one came & hit him again at the knees, then Ron Dayne fell on top of him.

Salaam went out, Bedell came in David was sacked again, and Salaam was thrown back out there.

David's not the only one who's taken shots for this team.

& I bring this up to say if you're going to blame anyone for this loss, pointing at the Tackles, blame Kubiak. He never should have let Wand go, if Bedell was the best FA he could find to back up Salaam. It's not like Seth was making any money to worry about.


I've been a very big Wand supporter, so you won't hear me argue against that.

Ibar_Harry
02-24-2007, 03:40 PM
Payton basically calls his own plays. That makes him very comfortible with what he is trying to do. It makes his teammates comfortible, because they also give him input to what is happening when they come back to the huddle. They know he will listen and they are part of the spy network on the field. They know how the defense is playing them. This gives the QB more time to call and work the play, since he doesn't have to wait for everyone to go through all of the fakes on the sidelines while trying to send the play to the QB or make up their mind as to what is going to be. More importantly he learns to work the no huddle to catch the defense off guard in perhapes critical situations.

Step back and think. Carr looked very good in the two quarters he called his own plays. The team was into it with him and that was stated at the time. The coaching staff took over the play calling and that was the end of the story.

Kubiak wants and demands to call all plays with no changes allowed. At least that seems to be what is said by him including the press so I have no reason to doubt the statements.

Is it just possible - as I have so often said - that the coaches don't see what the QB is seeing. Perhapes the QB can not read the mind of the coach and what he is thinking. I have always said let David call a few games and lets see what happens. There's nothing like your teammates knowing you really are the leader on the field. Football is a chess game played by rugged individuals. As such, you need to know why you are making the moves and where you are going with your moves.

Bobby Fisher could make 30 moves and tell you to take over and I doubt you would know what to do. That's my point. The QB has to know where he is going with the plays. HC's today get involved in the wrong parts of the game. Remember, a HC is like a CEO, he should dictate policy and let his management impliment the policy. In this case the policy is the game plan and management is the QB.

Texans_Chick
02-24-2007, 04:36 PM
Flame:

Link: Warning Lame "Houston Has a Problem" headline. (http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/houston-has-problem.html)

I think this fairly represents the national view of the Texans situation as it relates to the QB position.

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 04:49 PM
Flame:

Link: Warning Lame "Houston Has a Problem" headline. (http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/houston-has-problem.html)

I think this fairly represents the national view of the Texans situation as it relates to the QB position.


I don't know about that. Most I talk to, whether it be family and friends here, in Dallas or those that are in football to some extent or another always seem to say the same thing..."how does that guy keep geeting shots." Most national talk I hear is that the guy and the line have their equal problems and a new start will benefit all. I also don't trust many opinions that don't watch the games consistently. Seeing highlights of a guy getting sacked alot and then the final score isn't showing the real story.

thunderkyss
02-24-2007, 05:07 PM
Why is it that if Arizona, Miami, Denver, Oakland, Dallas & Tampa Bay have a problem keeping their QB upright, the obvious fix is to change the QB. But if Houston's QB can't stay on his feet, we're stupid for thinking about changing QBs??

Why??

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 05:09 PM
Why is it that if Arizona, Miami, Denver, Oakland, & Tampa Bay have a problem keeping their QB upright, the obvious fix is to change the QB. But if Houston's QB can't stay on his feet, we're stupid for thinking about changing QBs??

Why??

That is something that I shake my head about daily TK. This happens in the NFL year after year yet we are supposed to sit and wait for the perfect storm.

Silver Oak
02-24-2007, 06:54 PM
That is something that I shake my head about daily TK. This happens in the NFL year after year yet we are supposed to sit and wait for the perfect storm.


I had a response typed up, but I realized it has been posted here ad nauseum. Much like politics, you'll believe what you want to believe no matter the argument.

Go Texans!

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 07:11 PM
I had a response typed up, but I realized it has been posted here ad nauseum. Much like politics, you'll believe what you want to believe no matter the argument.

Go Texans!


I'd like to hear it since no one can explain it. I haven't seen it yet. What does Carr have that other picks I've seen come and go since the 1970s don't..where he deserves so much money despite his performance. People have already shown that an O-line alone does not make a QB bad. Also, if you read my posts, they are usually grounded in football alone and there is nothing personal. Just because I want Carr gone doesn't mean I haven't seen the other side and don't listen. It has just gotten to the point right now where the other side is nothing more than...."give him one more chance and spend more money to bring others in to make up for him being average." If someone can rationally tell me why it makes sense to continue putting off the team moving forward, go for it. I'll do my best to respond in kind.

the flash
02-24-2007, 08:45 PM
I will have Carr's back as long as he wears a Texan Jersey and represents the Texans with the same class he always has. In my opinion, he hasn't had a fair shot at performing to the best of his ability because of our O-line, coaches, and running backs. Give him what he needs to succeed (stability and less pressure) and I believe he will. The problem with a lot of the people who hate Carr is that they expect him to be a Vince Young or a Michael Vick (who have great mobility and can run for a lot of yards). That is not the kind of qb David is. He has made mistakes but so have others on this team.

A big reason that a lot of people want Plummer is because he is something new. As soon as he starts messing up we will see a million threads against him and that many for him. It is a never ending cycle.

quicksilver
02-24-2007, 09:02 PM
I'm not married to either side of the Keep Carr/Get Rid of Carr issue, but we HAVE to build a stronger O-line. Pick any QB you want--Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Payton Manning, Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton--I don't care, until we solidify the O-line, we're not going to have success on offense.

The line progressed last season, but we don't have all the pieces yet and the injuries on the line were brutal. We need to get the missing pieces, establish depth, and continue to develop our linemen in this system.

I think in this draft we have to get an OT and a C.

thunderkyss
02-24-2007, 10:20 PM
The problem with a lot of the people who hate Carr is that they expect him to be a Vince Young or a Michael Vick (who have great mobility and can run for a lot of yards). That is not the kind of qb David is. He has made mistakes but so have others on this team.

Just for the record, I'd much rather have David on this team than Vick.

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 01:38 AM
I will have Carr's back as long as he wears a Texan Jersey and represents the Texans with the same class he always has. In my opinion, he hasn't had a fair shot at performing to the best of his ability because of our O-line, coaches, and running backs. Give him what he needs to succeed (stability and less pressure) and I believe he will. The problem with a lot of the people who hate Carr is that they expect him to be a Vince Young or a Michael Vick (who have great mobility and can run for a lot of yards). That is not the kind of qb David is. He has made mistakes but so have others on this team.

A big reason that a lot of people want Plummer is because he is something new. As soon as he starts messing up we will see a million threads against him and that many for him. It is a never ending cycle.

That is the problem many of us have...it is the NFL and the league isn't fair...you can't say that you need to sit and wait until you have the perfect line and this ultimate "plastic bubble" for a QB to operate. That is called practice. You say stability when the team wants consistency. If having a guy with prototype QB skills was a prereq for waiting to be surrounded by the perfect people then Ryan Leaf and a ton of others would be standing in line still waiting.

the flash
02-25-2007, 02:09 AM
That is the problem many of us have...it is the NFL and the league isn't fair...you can't say that you need to sit and wait until you have the perfect line and this ultimate "plastic bubble" for a QB to operate. That is called practice. You say stability when the team wants consistency. If having a guy with prototype QB skills was a prereq for waiting to be surrounded by the perfect people then Ryan Leaf and a ton of others would be standing in line still waiting.

For this I give you the following quote:
we HAVE to build a stronger O-line. Pick any QB you want--Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Payton Manning, Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton--I don't care, until we solidify the O-line, we're not going to have success on offense.

Doesn't matter how great the QB is if you don't protect him then you don't give him time to make the big plays that are needed. I'm not asking for the perfect O-line, just one that can pass and run block so that we can be consistent and not one-sided (or no-sided).

The Pencil Neck
02-25-2007, 02:57 AM
I'm not asking for the perfect O-line, just one that can pass and run block so that we can be consistent and not one-sided (or no-sided).

OK. Bam. You had that last year. Now what do you need?

thunderkyss
02-25-2007, 09:52 AM
For this I give you the following quote:


Doesn't matter how great the QB is if you don't protect him then you don't give him time to make the big plays that are needed. I'm not asking for the perfect O-line, just one that can pass and run block so that we can be consistent and not one-sided (or no-sided).

The point is that some QBs can perform with less. Tom Brady did when he won his first SuperBowl. The sacks didn't stop when he replaced Bledsoe, Brady was still sacked 49 times that year. But he was able to win games when Bledsoe wasn't. Same team...

Romo this year, was able to do more with the same Dallas offensive line, that Bledsoe struggled behind.

Harrington took Miami on a 4 game winning streak shortly after replacing their inept QB.

After going 0-5 to start the season, the Tennessee Titans went 8-3 after changing their QB.

Nobody cares why you can't produce in this league. You either do, or you don't, and we move on.

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 10:24 AM
The point is that some QBs can perform with less. Tom Brady did when he won his first SuperBowl. The sacks didn't stop when he replaced Bledsoe, Brady was still sacked 49 times that year. But he was able to win games when Bledsoe wasn't. Same team...

Romo this year, was able to do more with the same Dallas offensive line, that Bledsoe struggled behind.

Harrington took Miami on a 4 game winning streak shortly after replacing their inept QB.

After going 0-5 to start the season, the Tennessee Titans went 8-3 after changing their QB.

Nobody cares why you can't produce in this league. You either do, or you don't, and we move on.

Beat me to it again TK.

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 10:26 AM
For this I give you the following quote:


Doesn't matter how great the QB is if you don't protect him then you don't give him time to make the big plays that are needed. I'm not asking for the perfect O-line, just one that can pass and run block so that we can be consistent and not one-sided (or no-sided).

Is that all.:). I'd also like a QB that can move in the pocket and buy himself an extra second or two instead of the line being blamed. All of the QBs you named did that...especially Staubach and Tarkenton, two of the better scramblers in league history. Then you named two of the QBs with the quickest releases..Marino and Manning. There was more than line that had to do with their success. Plus this year was a perfect example of what can happen. Lets say our line was set for more success and the injuries ruined that..well injuries are part of the league yearly..that's why I want a guy to elevate his game instead of us going in the tank. Guys that can buy that second do that.

Vinny
02-25-2007, 12:05 PM
Flame:

Link: Warning Lame "Houston Has a Problem" headline. (http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/houston-has-problem.html)

I think this fairly represents the national view of the Texans situation as it relates to the QB position.

I don't know about that. Most I talk to, whether it be family and friends here, in Dallas or those that are in football to some extent or another always seem to say the same thing..."how does that guy keep geeting shots." Most national talk I hear is that the guy and the line have their equal problems and a new start will benefit all. I also don't trust many opinions that don't watch the games consistently. Seeing highlights of a guy getting sacked alot and then the final score isn't showing the real story.Most people I know around Houston that don't come here or don't use message boards have almost universal disdain for Carr. The only real place I see support for his game is from his friends and family here on a few message boards and in the National media (who doesn't do much more than scan stat lines)....I've lived all over the Nation and most of my friends in other cities think that Carr is some sort of expansion victim though, so I think he gets the benefit of the doubt outside of Houston...but they don't see any of our games, so go figure. I rarely run into anyone here in town who thinks Carr is a victim here and most people I talk to think the Texans FO has been a joke ever since they re-signed Carr for 3 more years last season. I hate to say that since I love the NFL and support our FO as much as I do...but bottom line is I honestly hear very little support for Carr in my casual encounters and almost universally people think the Texans are a laughing stock franchise right now.

Tulip
02-25-2007, 12:06 PM
Flame:

Link: Warning Lame "Houston Has a Problem" headline. (http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/02/houston-has-problem.html)

I think this fairly represents the national view of the Texans situation as it relates to the QB position.

I agree - this is mainly what I continue hearing from national media and national football fans. And that makes sense, because the conclusion is drawn based on core QB statistics.

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 01:43 PM
Most people I know around Houston that don't come here or don't use message boards have almost universal disdain for Carr. The only real place I see support for his game is from his friends and family here on a few message boards and in the National media (who doesn't do much more than scan stat lines)....I've lived all over the Nation and most of my friends in other cities think that Carr is some sort of expansion victim though, so I think he gets the benefit of the doubt outside of Houston...but they don't see any of our games, so go figure. I rarely run into anyone here in town who thinks Carr is a victim here and most people I talk to think the Texans FO has been a joke ever since they re-signed Carr for 3 more years last season. I hate to say that since I love the NFL and support our FO as much as I do...but bottom line is I honestly hear very little support for Carr in my casual encounters and almost universally people think the Texans are a laughing stock franchise right now.

Agree Vinny. You read the Sports Guy on ESPN.com or see many of the writers and it is one big joke to them. I don't talk to many people whose first reaction isn't "that guy stinks."

Arky
02-25-2007, 01:53 PM
Some of you people are in the wrong thread. You need to click on the "disdain" thread.

Yep, I'll support Carr if he's back just like I will support the other 21 guys. With upgrades in the O-line, it would be interesting to see how he does in a 2nd year under Kubiak...

TexansSeminole
02-25-2007, 02:18 PM
Just posted as Anonymous...hopefully the writer of that article reads it.

Honestly...it's like me trying to sell a house without even seeing it yet.

But I suppose when you talk crap about the Texans you get some "funny points" and sometimes that can substitute for "accuracy points".

Imatexanfan
02-25-2007, 05:03 PM
Sure Carr didn't turn out like everyone hoped and its best that he and the Texans probably take a fresh approach and start. Most people knew that the Capers regime ruined him. But not me. DC IS a great QB, and I stand behind my word. He'll be here next year and he'll be starting.:doot:

StarStruck
02-25-2007, 05:31 PM
see what I mean. with fans like that would you want to give up body for the team. showing a jock strap that is on the IQ level of a cowboy fan.

Quite frankly, when I saw my IQ level, it surprised the the heck out me.:bubble: As far as the zeal about David Carr, great! Some ticketholders think they are getting the best value for their money, while others don't. I think that the two can find a happy medium minus the f bombs.

devo-x
02-25-2007, 05:59 PM
I think it would help David Carr to stay with the Texans as a backup QB

(Note: I'm neither for or against Carr at this stage)

:stirpot:

TopTexanFan16
02-25-2007, 06:04 PM
2 fumbles, both lost, one returned for a TD. 1 interception is all I remember. The score was 14-3 Tennessee when he left the game at the beginning of the third Qtr, we lost 28-22, with Sage playing for basically a whole half. If AJ would have caught that ball that bounced off his shoulder pads into Pacman's (whom he clearly had beat) hands, we still could have won that game.

See everyone always brings up how sage almost came back in the Tenn. game and won with the same players. No one ever mentions the second time we played the jags and carr got hurt. Sage came in at the 4th quarter, he was 1/3 9yds and had a sack. So if your goin to use stats from the Tenn. game im gonna use stats from the jags game seems fair right? all im saying is its an unfair comparison unless you talk about all game rather than just the good ones. Just to also point out, if anyones interested that second jags game, go back and watch carr and how he handles the entire game, he did wonderful in my opinion. just spectacular so yes i acknowlege hes had bad games but i will be the first to point out his good ones. just my 2 cents

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 06:18 PM
See everyone always brings up how sage almost came back in the Tenn. game and won with the same players. No one ever mentions the second time we played the jags and carr got hurt. Sage came in at the 4th quarter, he was 1/3 9yds and had a sack. So if your goin to use stats from the Tenn. game im gonna use stats from the jags game seems fair right? all im saying is its an unfair comparison unless you talk about all game rather than just the good ones. Just to also point out, if anyones interested that second jags game, go back and watch carr and how he handles the entire game, he did wonderful in my opinion. just spectacular so yes i acknowlege hes had bad games but i will be the first to point out his good ones. just my 2 cents


OK, and I'd say that isn't enough to make any comment on. Those aren't even stats I'd think about. I don't think he is the answer. He just showed alot in the way he played when he got a chance. The problem some are having, including coaching I believe, is consistency.

thunderkyss
02-25-2007, 10:35 PM
See everyone always brings up how sage almost came back in the Tenn. game and won with the same players. No one ever mentions the second time we played the jags and carr got hurt. Sage came in at the 4th quarter, he was 1/3 9yds and had a sack. So if your goin to use stats from the Tenn. game im gonna use stats from the jags game seems fair right? all im saying is its an unfair comparison unless you talk about all game rather than just the good ones. Just to also point out, if anyones interested that second jags game, go back and watch carr and how he handles the entire game, he did wonderful in my opinion. just spectacular so yes i acknowlege hes had bad games but i will be the first to point out his good ones. just my 2 cents

First of all, I was just correcting the guy above me who said David had 5 fumbles, & 2 int's in that game.

I'm going through now, watching all the games again. I just watched the first Jax game, and that was definitely a good game for David. He started off slow, but really came on in the fourth.

Now SAge in that second game, he threw the ball 3 times... What could you have expected?? 100 yds?? 3 for 3??

Honoring Earl 34
02-25-2007, 10:40 PM
First of all, I was just correcting the guy above me who said David had 5 fumbles, & 2 int's in that game.

I'm going through now, watching all the games again. I just watched the first Jax game, and that was definitely a good game for David. He started off slow, but really came on in the fourth.

Now SAge in that second game, he threw the ball 3 times... What could you have expected?? 100 yds?? 3 for 3??

Owen Daniels caught it and fumbled or something or it would have been 2/3 ... but #%$^ it we don't make excuses anymore for anybody .

t_flare
02-25-2007, 10:59 PM
dont forget Saga stats in Dallas too...

Carr... I hope this year you will get more talent you you deserve... hopefully a consistant running game and at least a average O-Line

TopTexanFan16
02-26-2007, 11:18 AM
First of all, I was just correcting the guy above me who said David had 5 fumbles, & 2 int's in that game.

I'm going through now, watching all the games again. I just watched the first Jax game, and that was definitely a good game for David. He started off slow, but really came on in the fourth.

Now SAge in that second game, he threw the ball 3 times... What could you have expected?? 100 yds?? 3 for 3??

That wasnt my point, my point was that in just 1 quarter of play sage couldnt manage barley any yards and was sacked behind the same online carr plays behind. what i was refrencing to is that sage is not our savior and that is all. you just happened to post about his good game so i used your post to comment on that.

thunderkyss
02-26-2007, 11:43 AM
That wasnt my point, my point was that in just 1 quarter of play sage couldnt manage barley any yards and was sacked behind the same online carr plays behind. what i was refrencing to is that sage is not our savior and that is all. you just happened to post about his good game so i used your post to comment on that.

Even in my post, I wasn't saying he had a good game. He threw an INT that contributed to that loss, just as much as David's little mis-haps.

I wasn't ragging David. I was correcting someone who said David lost that game. My post was a no he didn't.

& I wasn't praising Sage..

But I wonder how you can say Sage could barley manage any yards in one Qtr of play, when he wasn't asked to do much of anything. At best, you could use that game to say, "See, Kubiak took the ball out of Sage's hands as well."

real
02-26-2007, 11:46 AM
That wasnt my point, my point was that in just 1 quarter of play sage couldnt manage barley any yards and was sacked behind the same online carr plays behind. what i was refrencing to is that sage is not our savior and that is all. you just happened to post about his good game so i used your post to comment on that.

You can draw that big of a conclusion from 3 plays?

Lets see.....

3 plays, in a game that he had been sitting on the sideline cold for almost the whole game...

VS.


40 or so plays in the pre-season.....


Yeah I guess it makes PERFECT sense to judge Sage from that Jacksontown game...

Texan_Bill
02-26-2007, 11:53 AM
It's ridiculous to use either of those two games (Tenn. or Jax) to assess Sage. One game, Tenns. defense was in "prevent' mode during mop-up time and in the other, the Texans were in "kill the clock" mode.

Try judging the guy on his whole body of work through 6 seasons......

real
02-26-2007, 12:10 PM
Try judging the guy on his whole body of work through 6 seasons......


And how do you suppose we do that ?


Look at his stat line ? W-L record ? 40 time ?

Do you happen to have any of Sage's game film laying around? Maybe we could all come over and view it together.




All I know is that Sage has looked good in this offense, and I hope he get's an actual shot, not figurative....

Texan_Bill
02-26-2007, 12:15 PM
And how do you suppose we do that ?


Look at his stat line ? W-L record ? 40 time ?


All I know is that Sage has looked good in this offense, and I hope he get's an actual shot, not figurative....

It was kind of a rhetorical comment, given the fact that the guy has only started 2 games in 6 years. There is no way to really assess Sage unless you start the guy... If the latest rumors are true about Carr staying here, I understand that Carr will start... HOWEVER, if he is benched (i.e. Tennessee) not only replace him that game, but start Sage the following game as well.

In other words, I liked the fact that Kubes benched Carr (something the old regime would have never done), but I want Kubes to follow through even futher - Start Sage the following week and then we will have someting really tangible to judge him on...

TexHorns
02-26-2007, 12:15 PM
I dont like any of the other options right now so I say give Carr one more year.

real
02-26-2007, 12:20 PM
In other words, I liked the fact that Kubes benched Carr (something the old regime would have never done), but I want Kubes to follow through even futher - Start Sage the following week and then we will have someting really tangible to judge him on...

O.K....my bad.....I thought you meant something else....


I agree with you on that point...

The Pencil Neck
02-26-2007, 02:19 PM
I dont like any of the other options right now so I say give Carr one more year.

I don't like any of the options right now so I say open up the competition for QB and let the best man win.

trutxn
02-26-2007, 03:09 PM
I don't understand post like this...

It's like some of you guys are Carr fans and not neccessarily Texan fans.

If that's the case.....I totally understand.

They are fake Texan fans! Find another team...

El Amigo Invisible
02-26-2007, 05:59 PM
Texans need your help.

WildCat_Texan
02-26-2007, 11:31 PM
Ok, here's my 2 cents. #1 I am a Texan fan. I've never lived in Houston, but I love that town! Long story..anyways, It broke my heart when the Oilers left. The moment I knew Houston was going to get a franchise, I was jumping for joy. When it comes to Carr, I want him to be here. He's tough, durable and has taken a LOT of heat. Yes, he's deserved some, but guys..he's NEEDED a line. Period. I hope to the Lord Almighty that if he does stay, he just straight up lights it up! If he doesn't stay, then let him light it up somewhere else, just not with against our Texans. (sorry Dave) I know he will succeed. He's got it. We just didn't give him the line he and the running game needed. Now we're here. And now we're reaping what we sowed. But, we will win, and we will have the bragging rights, especially all of us that never bashed, never threatened to stop being fans. I will be one of the many that believed, no matter how ugly it got, no matter how long it took. We will win. WE WILL BE PROUD!

Go Texans!!!

Texan Fan in Kansas.

Navy_Chris
02-26-2007, 11:38 PM
Ok, here's my 2 cents. #1 I am a Texan fan. I've never lived in Houston, but I love that town! Long story..anyways, It broke my heart when the Oilers left. The moment I knew Houston was going to get a franchise, I was jumping for joy. When it comes to Carr, I want him to be here. He's tough, durable and has taken a LOT of heat. Yes, he's deserved some, but guys..he's NEEDED a line. Period. I hope to the Lord Almighty that if he does stay, he just straight up lights it up! If he doesn't stay, then let him light it up somewhere else, just not with against our Texans. (sorry Dave) I know he will succeed. He's got it. We just didn't give him the line he and the running game needed. Now we're here. And now we're reaping what we sowed. But, we will win, and we will have the bragging rights, especially all of us that never bashed, never threatened to stop being fans. I will be one of the many that believed, no matter how ugly it got, no matter how long it took. We will win. WE WILL BE PROUD!

Go Texans!!!

Texan Fan in Kansas.

David Carr will get no support from me. If wants my support, he should look in the dictionary between **** and syphillis. That's where he'll find my support.

keyfro
02-26-2007, 11:47 PM
here's my 2 cents...one whether you hate him, dislike him, like him, or love him david carr right now is our quarterback...right now the choices this franchise has at QB are not plentiful...you could either:

sign garcia a guy who has struggled to win on clubs with subpar talent
trade for matt schuab a guy who may not fit the scheme we run here
hope that jake plummer is cut and then hope he wants to play since there has been rumors of him wanting to retire
keep david carr but leave the starting job up for grabs with sage
or simply hope for brady quinn to fall to us at the 8th overall pick and start him

needless to say our options are not great...there is no answer up here that will solve this problem...so here's what i purpose we do

unless jake plummer is cut and wants to be a texan david carr is our guy...i know i know just deal with it...but we should have an open competition for the starting job in mini-camp through pre-season...we should also draft kevin kolb in round 2 to add to the competition...if carr wins the job then everyone needs to keep one thing in mind...one guy doesn't win or lose games for you it takes a whole team effort...we have seen david play like total crap and still win ala oakland this past season...we've seen david play great and still lose ala st. louis back in 05...the main thing is we as a team need to get better...every position...every player

dunta robinson needs to be more productive...1 or 2 ints a season isn't going to cut it
andre johnson needs to be in the double digits with touchdown receptions
mario williams, travis johnson, and jason babin all need to improve on their sack count
owen daniels needs to become a more consistant producer on the field
the o-line needs to shape up and play a complete game
and whoever our runningback is needs to become a gamer

if we start producing at all levels then we'll start winning regardless of the QB

petedy
02-27-2007, 12:42 AM
David Carr will get no support from me. If wants my support, he should look in the dictionary between **** and syphillis. That's where he'll find my support.

So what you are saying then is if he leads the team to the playoffs and the Super Bowl you still would not support him. If he has a MVP year you would not support him,right? Then obviously you have nothing but hate for the guy and to pin all the woes on him alone is truly unfair. It is a team game and the whole team together wins or loses. The defense has to stop the other team and the offense has to score points.Every player will have a down year or two
especially learning a new system and having the injuries to the o-line like last year. Everyone will be improved this coming season and they should be a joy to watch.

A Texan
02-27-2007, 11:59 AM
So what you are saying then is if he leads the team to the playoffs and the Super Bowl you still would not support him. If he has a MVP year you would not support him,right? Then obviously you have nothing but hate for the guy and to pin all the woes on him alone is truly unfair. It is a team game and the whole team together wins or loses. The defense has to stop the other team and the offense has to score points.Every player will have a down year or two
especially learning a new system and having the injuries to the o-line like last year. Everyone will be improved this coming season and they should be a joy to watch.
Every player will have a down year or two? Carr has had 5 down years. Most of us are tired of the "He just needs another year or two" and "David is great, it's all the other players and all the coaches fault that he's the way he is". If given another year it would be the same old whine next year.

petedy
02-27-2007, 12:41 PM
Every player will have a down year or two? Carr has had 5 down years. Most of us are tired of the "He just needs another year or two" and "David is great, it's all the other players and all the coaches fault that he's the way he is". If given another year it would be the same old whine next year.

So it mens you'll continue to whine then.

TexansLucky13
02-27-2007, 12:49 PM
I Heart David

CarrIsFine
02-27-2007, 01:15 PM
Every player will have a down year or two? Carr has had 5 down years. Most of us are tired of the "He just needs another year or two" and "David is great, it's all the other players and all the coaches fault that he's the way he is". If given another year it would be the same old whine next year.

The Houston Texans have had 5 down years. They should move to Los Angeles. The franchise has had five years to produce in Houston and has been unsuccesful, maybe a change of scenery would help:winky:

My 2 cents: The Texans = the TB Bucs and David Carr = Steve Young. Study your NFL history and be prepared for a repeat.

real
02-27-2007, 01:21 PM
A lot of people seem to think A change of scenery will help Carr...

I think he's going to struggle wherever he goes, but atleast a fresh start will give him a chance to get his mind right.

SamuraiSword
02-27-2007, 04:48 PM
The Houston Texans have had 5 down years. They should move to Los Angeles. The franchise has had five years to produce in Houston and has been unsuccesful, maybe a change of scenery would help:winky:

My 2 cents: The Texans = the TB Bucs and David Carr = Steve Young. Study your NFL history and be prepared for a repeat.

Also some say that David Carr resembles Tim Couch. They are almost identical except in a few catagories....

Texan_Bill
02-27-2007, 05:33 PM
Also some say that David Carr resembles Tim Couch. They are almost identical except in a few catagories....

Stands to reason:
Couch------------------------> Chris Palmer
Carr--------------------------> Chris Palmer

seveneventer
02-27-2007, 06:36 PM
Im pullin for David and I want him here in Houston....my gut feeling is that everything will workout...shoot me if im wrong:hunter: :texan:

spurstexanstros
02-27-2007, 11:39 PM
My 2 cents: The Texans = the TB Bucs and David Carr = Steve Young. Study your NFL history and be prepared for a repeat.

My point exactly

spurstexanstros
02-27-2007, 11:42 PM
if we start producing at all levels then we'll start winning regardless of the QB

The most logical quote yet

NFLforher
02-28-2007, 10:19 AM
Why do you think it is up to one man and not up to the team as a whole?


Kaiser Toro on a support DC thread? :winky:

Honoring Earl 34
02-28-2007, 10:22 AM
I Heart David


I CLUB DAVID

Hookem Horns
12-15-2010, 05:55 PM
I just wanted Bigbots to see how ridiculous his thread "To the "Fire Kubiak" gang (Read before Responding)" is going to look in a year or two from now.

Pollardized
12-15-2010, 05:57 PM
I just wanted Bigbots to see how ridiculous his thread "To the "Fire Kubiak" gang (Read before Responding)" is going to look in a year or two from now.

:spit:

Hervoyel
12-15-2010, 06:09 PM
The Houston Texans have had 5 down years. They should move to Los Angeles. The franchise has had five years to produce in Houston and has been unsuccesful, maybe a change of scenery would help:winky:

My 2 cents: The Texans = the TB Bucs and David Carr = Steve Young. Study your NFL history and be prepared for a repeat.

No wonder this guy doesn't show his face around here anymore.

Hookem Horns
12-15-2010, 06:16 PM
No wonder this guy doesn't show his face around here anymore.

LOL. Actually Carr did end up on the 49ers so there is some merit to the Steve Young comparison. Also both got their starts on bad expansion teams. Unfortunately for Carr and Hulk75 the comparison ends there.

BTW, I apologize to spurstexansastros. This was in no way an attempt to belittle him. I just bumped the first pro-Carr thread I could find.

Actually I am curious though, at what point spurstexansastros did you change your tune on Carr? Assuming you have changed your tune on Carr. :)

Double Barrel
12-15-2010, 07:12 PM
Just went through the whole thread....and I'm sensing a pattern here. :hmmm:

Honoring Earl 34
12-15-2010, 07:21 PM
I Heart David



I CLUB DAVID

Wow ... did I do that ?

Mr. White
12-15-2010, 07:25 PM
Just went through the whole thread....and I'm sensing a pattern here. :hmmm:

There sure is.

I can't believe I didn't post in this thread. I guess I was trying to be respectful.

Instead, I posted in this (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35562) one.

FirstTexansFan
12-15-2010, 07:43 PM
Man, talk about a blast from the past! I didn't read through it, but I imagine I was one of those PRO guys myself at that time. Shame shame on you for bringing this thread back Hook'em :)

powerfuldragon
12-15-2010, 07:45 PM
i'm gonna go on the record saying that this is my FIRST post in this thread.

Pantherstang84
12-15-2010, 07:46 PM
I just wanted Bigbots to see how ridiculous his thread "To the "Fire Kubiak" gang (Read before Responding)" is going to look in a year or two from now.

OMG :lol:

Pantherstang84
12-15-2010, 07:47 PM
i'm gonna go on the record saying that this is my FIRST post in this thread.

BTW...Nice avatar. Very nice.

thunderkyss
12-15-2010, 07:53 PM
I can understand what you are saying. That guys like Andre, Pitts, Moulds, & Dunta don't want to be starting over, and we need to start winning. If we don't start winning, that those players will want to go to a winning team, like all the other high profile FAs. You're saying if we dump Carr, we'll have to find a replacement, and it'll take three years to groom him. A guy like Plummer won't do anything, but postpone the inevitable three year QB incubation period if we don't find our new QB in the'07 draft. & by the time he is ready to help us win, Andre, Pitts, Moulds, & Dunta would've moved on.

You're saying we need to put players around that core of guys, before we even worry about how good/bad our QB plays.

That makes sense to me. That line of thinking. You think pulling David would be equivalent to knocking over that first domino.

We, on the other hand, believe that not pulling David is equivalent to knocking over that first Domino. I agree, Andre & Dunta are going to walk, if we don't start winning, if we don't show a commitment to winning. If David is the best QB we can put out there on Sundays. If that's the best we can do, or if that's the best we are willing to have on this team, then how serious are we about winning?? David has not shown the slightest glimpse of being ready to start in this league. He can't go through progressions, he can't recognize mismatches, he can't beat a blitz, and he can't buy you time in or out of the pocket.

But hey, I'll support David being a Houston Texan in '07... but I think he should be holding a clip board trying to keep up with Kubes on the sideline. Let him be the #2 guy in training camp... let him prove that he can play at a very high level against the 2s & 3s in the Preseason, let him show that he understands the offense on the practice squad, and let him surprise the heck out of everyone when he comes in late in the 4th Qtr when we are blowing out some other team, or getting blown out. Let him show that he doesn't need three Qtrs to get "warmed up" Let him earn the job, and prove that he belongs on the field on Sunday, and not the sideline. If nothing else, let him get to week 4 without avg 4 sacks a game.

So, I was on the side of the get rid of Carr guys????

The bolded part.... sorta Deja Vu'ish......

That's insane. We know our offensive line needs to get better. We understand our defense isn't in the top half of the league. We understand we need better running backs, We understand we need better Corners & Safeties. We know we need to get more pressure on the QB.

But you name it, DE, DT, CB, Safeties, LBs, TEs, WRs, RBs, LTs, Guards, Centers, FBs we've been swaping them for 5 years now. All we ask is the same commitment to making this team better as it relates to the QB position.

ooh.... didn't remember this post...... :evil:

drs23
12-15-2010, 07:59 PM
i'm gonna go on the record saying that this is my FIRST post in this thread.

PD, is that the chick in Toronto's avatar? Sure looks familiar. :D

Trap_Star
12-15-2010, 08:14 PM
LOL Ibar Harry

Thorn
12-15-2010, 08:17 PM
I can't believe I didn't post in this thread.

I was wondering also why I didn't post in this one, but then I looked at the date on the last post before today and I wasn't even a member yet when this thread was active. I would have had a lot to say if I was here at the time. LOL

CretorFrigg
12-15-2010, 08:20 PM
I wasn't here when this thread was made...

But I'll admit I was a Carr fanboy at the time. :smiliepalm:

GNTLEWOLF
12-15-2010, 08:27 PM
Just went through the whole thread....and I'm sensing a pattern here. :hmmm:

I just did the same thing...Wow...I was a Carr supporter at the time and after I came to my senses, I vowed to not fall into that trap again with anybody.... The only reason I didn't have some stupid comment was that I was posting on the HT official board at the time.

It is funny how the name and position has changed but all the arguments are the same..

Mr. White
12-15-2010, 08:52 PM
I just did the same thing...Wow...I was a Carr supporter at the time and after I came to my senses, I vowed to not fall into that trap again with anybody.... The only reason I didn't have some stupid comment was that I was posting on the HT official board at the time.

It is funny how the name and position has changed but all the arguments are the same..

This was the official board back then....at least the history is.

I'll bet you're on here somewhere.

infantrycak
12-15-2010, 09:39 PM
Whohoo - my first post in this thread. :kitten:

OzzO
12-15-2010, 09:46 PM
I just wanted Bigbots to see how ridiculous his thread "To the "Fire Kubiak" gang (Read before Responding)" is going to look in a year or two from now.

Dang it Hookem, I just opened the forums and this thread title caught my eye. I think I had the thoughts of..

"NO F'n way he's back"
"WTF"
"Oh crap, this is our big move for the season"
"It's gotta be an old thread"

among others in the background all cross my mind within milliseconds of each other. Almost a malfunction of the brain with too many thoughts all crammed in at ones.

(whew, and didn't post in the thread back in the day) Gotta pick the love / hate side with wisdom lest threads be reanimated.

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2010, 11:59 PM
The Carr Wars were a harbinger to the Kubiak Rebellion. What we have here is not a failure to communicate, but a failure for some to see through the Battle Red, Liberty White and Steel Blue.

Personally I do not see any similarities in the two outside of McNair's public comments, or lack thereof.

Lucky
12-16-2010, 07:33 AM
Personally I do not see any similarities in the two...
I see the the parallel. The excuses made for the lack of production.

Carr needs an o-line.
Carr needs more weapons.
Carr needs a new coach.

How's that different from:

Kubiak needs a defensive coordinator.
Kubiak needs a veteran GM.
Kubiak needs a playcaller.

What about what the Texans need? When is Bob McNair going to put the team first, ahead of his favorite pets? Carr wasn't repairable. I don't think Kubiak can be fixed, either. Furthermore, why fix him? It's time to put the team first and hire a fixerupper.

gwallaia
12-16-2010, 07:54 AM
Im a big supporter of david carr. But if you guys think hes no good your dead wrong. He has played on a team who has the worst o line i ever seen. he doesnt have the help he needs to suceed. He been hit more times then any other qb in this league without a question and all you guys do its throw him under the bus for it. I am sick and tired of people who complain about carr. He does not deserve this. I hope he goes to a team that appriciates his hard work. Houston does not deserve him

The way this team has been cursed, I think Houston does deserve him.

HoustonFrog
12-16-2010, 08:27 AM
I see the the parallel. The excuses made for the lack of production.

Carr needs an o-line.
Carr needs more weapons.
Carr needs a new coach.

How's that different from:

Kubiak needs a defensive coordinator.
Kubiak needs a veteran GM.
Kubiak needs a playcaller.

What about what the Texans need? When is Bob McNair going to put the team first, ahead of his favorite pets? Carr wasn't repairable. I don't think Kubiak can be fixed, either. Furthermore, why fix him? It's time to put the team first and hire a fixerupper.

Agree with this.

Wow, I really got started in this thread about Page 5 :). I really hated Carr.

Doppelganger
12-16-2010, 09:09 AM
I support David Car....being as far away from the Texans sidelines as is humanely possible!!!

Malloy
12-16-2010, 09:23 AM
Hookem you necromancer!

HuttoKarl
12-16-2010, 09:48 AM
One of my friends recently passed...he was a Niners fan and on a forum we frequented his signature line was "Patiently awaiting Carrmageddon."

RIP Sean.

Blake
12-16-2010, 10:01 AM
I just wanted Bigbots to see how ridiculous his thread "To the "Fire Kubiak" gang (Read before Responding)" is going to look in a year or two from now.

Wooooo doggy. Funny stuff in this thread and point taken. But boy did spurstexansstros get taken to the woodshed!

HOU-TEX
12-16-2010, 10:10 AM
Okay here's my support.:bubble:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Adams_Jockstrap.JPG

see what I mean. with fans like that would you want to give up body for the team. showing a jock strap that is on the IQ level of a cowboy fan.

Damn, sts, I show my "support" and you call me dumb? Man, why didn't I remember this when I met you last season. LOL! Just kiddin, bro.

BTW, the picture used to be a jockstrap, which was all the support I could muster at the time.

Also. lmao at petedy. He/she and I had many heated "disagreements" over his/her boy. Petedy had to be a friend or family. Everywhere HWSNBN went, Petedy was on their message board pimpin him.

spurstexanstros
12-16-2010, 12:57 PM
LOL. Actually Carr did end up on the 49ers so there is some merit to the Steve Young comparison. Also both got their starts on bad expansion teams. Unfortunately for Carr and Hulk75 the comparison ends there.

BTW, I apologize to spurstexansastros. This was in no way an attempt to belittle him. I just bumped the first pro-Carr thread I could find.

Actually I am curious though, at what point spurstexansastros did you change your tune on Carr? Assuming you have changed your tune on Carr. :)

Thanks for bringing back the memories..

Yeah I supported Carr. I loved that he played hard and gave it his all despite lack of protection, running game and overall lack of coaching during his early years. I wonder what Kubiak could have done if he drafted him..who knows the qb we have now likes to throw lawn darts and game ending pick 6's.

I think I new Carr needed to go was in his last Titans game he got blasted by three guys for a sack and for the first time he didnt want to get back up..it was his time to go and it worked out for him he got a Superbowl ring.

I support whoever is wearing a Texans jersey and if they leave then good luck to them. I support Kubiak now and I would support the next guy whoever they are.

spurstexanstros
12-16-2010, 01:08 PM
Damn, sts, I show my "support" and you call me dumb? Man, why didn't I remember this when I met you last season. LOL! Just kiddin, bro.

BTW, the picture used to be a jockstrap, which was all the support I could muster at the time.

Also. lmao at petedy. He/she and I had many heated "disagreements" over his/her boy. Petedy had to be a friend or family. Everywhere HWSNBN went, Petedy was on their message board pimpin him.

Well maybe referring to you as Cowboy fan for that. was a bit harsh at the time

I actually had DC comment on my post and he gave me rep and i talke with his brother I think.

Cjeremy635
12-16-2010, 01:11 PM
Thanks for bringing back the memories..

Yeah I supported Carr. I loved that he played hard and gave it his all despite lack of protection, running game and overall lack of coaching during his early years. I wonder what Kubiak could have done if he drafted him..who knows the qb we have now likes to throw lawn darts and game ending pick 6's.

I think I new Carr needed to go was in his last Titans game he got blasted by three guys for a sack and for the first time he didnt want to get back up..it was his time to go and it worked out for him he got a Superbowl ring.

I support whoever is wearing a Texans jersey and if they leave then good luck to them. I support Kubiak now and I would support the next guy whoever they are.


I'll give the guy this much.......he was one tough SOB. He did get the shit knocked out of him and he kept getting back up, over & over again. I'm not sure if that's just being stupid, but I admired that fact about him.

Mr. White
12-16-2010, 01:29 PM
Well maybe referring to you as Cowboy fan for that. was a bit harsh at the time

I actually had DC comment on my post and he gave me rep and i talke with his brother I think.

What was his username?

spurstexanstros
12-16-2010, 01:35 PM
What was his username?

oh i cant remember if it was here or on other site...the pm said "thanks for Your support I appreciate it." it wasnt form a reg poster or random guy

hulk75 was his brother I believe.



hookem you should also bring back the VY is a golden god type threads..should also illuminate your point.

thunderkyss
12-16-2010, 01:54 PM
It's time to put the team first and hire a fixerupper.

First, let's say I agree with us parting ways with Kubiak, but......

What do you think of Bill Parcell's tenure in Dallas? BP was the ultimate "fixer upper" in my opinion, I think that is where the "4 years" standard came from.

I'm not a Dallas fan, but I appreciate the work Parcells did in Dallas, which was raising the bar of the franchise, raising expectations...... basically getting them out of a loser mentality.

I believe that is the same thing Kubiak did for this franchise.

I admit I was wrong in thinking he could take us to the next step, but it took the Cowboys 4 years to realize Wade Phillips couldn't take their team to the next step & if McNair does part ways with Kubiak, it's only one year (the way I'm counting... 4 years to change the loser mentality, this year was supposed to take us to the next step).

Hardcore Texan
12-16-2010, 02:07 PM
Wow ... did I do that ?

Yes you did, and it was rep worthy good sir.....:tiphat:

i'm gonna go on the record saying that this is my FIRST post in this thread.

Whohoo - my first post in this thread. :kitten:

Me too, the first thing I did was skim the thread hoping that was the case.

Rey
12-16-2010, 02:17 PM
What was his username?

hulk75

Mr. White
12-16-2010, 02:23 PM
hulk75

No, Hulk was his brother. It seemed like every member of the family were regular posters on the board back then.

I know his mom and dad also had accounts for sure. Just wondering what DC's was because I probably argued with him at some point too.

TEXANRED
12-16-2010, 02:25 PM
Thank God this thread got pulled and not other pro-carr threads. I was scared to see what I had written since in 06 I was pretty heavy into thinking Carr was going to be a hall of famer with Kubiak, a QB guru, coming on board.

Honoring Earl 34
12-16-2010, 02:26 PM
No, Hulk was his brother. It seemed like every member of the family were regular posters on the board back then.

I know his mom and dad also had accounts for sure. Just wondering what DC's was because I probably argued with him at some point too.

QB75 was Pa I think . Let's see one son a QB and the other son was # 75 , Howie Long's number .

Hookem Horns
12-16-2010, 02:29 PM
QB75 was Pa I think . Let's see one son a QB and the other son was # 75 , Howie Long's number .

I am wondering how Bigbots_02 is related to Kubiak. :thinking:

Honoring Earl 34
12-16-2010, 02:38 PM
I am wondering how Bigbots_02 is related to Kubiak. :thinking:

I think he's Casey Studdard and he knows his days are numbered without Kubiak .

dc_txtech
12-16-2010, 03:41 PM
hookem you should also bring back the VY is a golden god type threads..should also illuminate your point.

Took me forever to find it but ask and you shall receive...

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19537

Rey
12-16-2010, 04:05 PM
No, Hulk was his brother. It seemed like every member of the family were regular posters on the board back then.

I know his mom and dad also had accounts for sure. Just wondering what DC's was because I probably argued with him at some point too.

Oh...I didn't read closely enough...I thought that was what you were asking about...

Shaft75
12-16-2010, 04:29 PM
BTW...

Shaft75 is of no relation to Hulk75 or other family members of HWWDNMOSOBHIAFT(he who we do not mention or speak of because he is a f* tard)

Double Barrel
12-16-2010, 05:31 PM
The Carr Wars were a harbinger to the Kubiak Rebellion. What we have here is not a failure to communicate, but a failure for some to see through the Battle Red, Liberty White and Steel Blue.


Love the wording, man. The Carr Wars and now Kubiak Rebellion (along with the "Fire Everyone Club") will forever be etched into my memory when I reflect upon the decade of futile mediocrity.

Personally I do not see any similarities in the two outside of McNair's public comments, or lack thereof.

I can't see past the glaring similarities: they are both overrated as Texans and they both suck.

GuerillaBlack
12-16-2010, 07:13 PM
Thanks for bringing back the memories..

Yeah I supported Carr. I loved that he played hard and gave it his all despite lack of protection, running game and overall lack of coaching during his early years. I wonder what Kubiak could have done if he drafted him..who knows the qb we have now likes to throw lawn darts and game ending pick 6's.

I think I new Carr needed to go was in his last Titans game he got blasted by three guys for a sack and for the first time he didnt want to get back up..it was his time to go and it worked out for him he got a Superbowl ring.

I support whoever is wearing a Texans jersey and if they leave then good luck to them. I support Kubiak now and I would support the next guy whoever they are.

No he didn't.

Hookem Horns
12-16-2010, 07:46 PM
No he didn't.

Yeah, the Giants had Lorenzen as the backup QB their SB year. Carr came the following season.

Heath Shuler
12-16-2010, 08:25 PM
hulk75

hulk75: Worst in Texans Talk history.