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kastofsna
02-23-2007, 08:39 AM
right in the middle of the combine! fun.

1. Oakland - Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
2. Detroit - Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin
3. Cleveland - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
4. Tampa Bay - Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
5. Arizona - Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
6. Washington - Alan Branch, DT, Michigan
7. Minnesota - Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
8. Houston - Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
9. Miami - Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
10. Atlanta - Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska
11. San Francisco - Ted Ginn, Jr, WR, Ohio State
12. Buffalo - Chris Houston, CB, Arkansas
13. St. Louis - Patrick Willis, LB, Ole Miss
14. Carolina - Levi Brown, T, Penn State
15. Pittsburgh - Darrelle Revis, CB, Pittsburgh
16. Green Bay - Marshawn Lynch, RB, Cal
17. Jacksonville - Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State
18. Cincinnati - LaRon Landry, S, LSU
19. Tennessee - Robert Meachem, WR, Tennessee
20. New York Giants - Leon Hall, CB, Michigan
21. Denver - Charles Johnson, DE, Georgia
22. Dallas - DeMarcus Tyler, DT, NC State
23. Kansas City - Dwayne Jarrett, WR, USC
24. New England (from Seattle) - Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno State
25. New York Jets - Daymeion Hughes, CB, Cal
26. Philadelphia - Michael Bush, RB, Louisville
27. New Orleans - Greg Olsen, TE, Miami
28. New England - Steve Smith, WR, USC
29. Baltimore - Aaron Ross, CB, Texas
30. San Diego - Reggie Nelson, S, Florida
31. Chicago - Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State
32. Indianapolis - Buster Davis, LB, Florida State

swtbound07
02-23-2007, 08:46 AM
ordinarily i give you hell about whatever you post, but I really, really, really, really hope your right about AP falling to us at 8

baba ganoush
02-23-2007, 09:00 AM
i highly doubt that chris houston is the first corner drafted, and i also dont think reggie nelson will fall that far.

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 09:20 AM
i highly doubt that chris houston is the first corner drafted, and i also dont think reggie nelson will fall that far.
need to get with the times.

dirty steve
02-23-2007, 09:34 AM
kast--
does okoye at #4 have anything to do with gruden's work with him at the Senior Bowl? or is this just scuttlebutt you are hearing?

Kaiser Toro
02-23-2007, 09:38 AM
What is your rationale for Denver going DE at 21?

Meloy
02-23-2007, 09:43 AM
right in the middle of the combine! fun.

1. Oakland - Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
2. Detroit - Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin
3. Cleveland - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
4. Tampa Bay - Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
5. Arizona - Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
6. Washington - Alan Branch, DT, Michigan
7. Minnesota - Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
8. Houston - Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
9. Miami - Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
10. Atlanta - Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska
11. San Francisco - Ted Ginn, Jr, WR, Ohio State
12. Buffalo - Chris Houston, CB, Arkansas
13. St. Louis - Patrick Willis, LB, Ole Miss
14. Carolina - Levi Brown, T, Penn State
15. Pittsburgh - Darrelle Revis, CB, Pittsburgh
16. Green Bay - Marshawn Lynch, RB, Cal
17. Jacksonville - Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State
18. Cincinnati - LaRon Landry, S, LSU
19. Tennessee - Robert Meachem, WR, Tennessee
20. New York Giants - Leon Hall, CB, Michigan
21. Denver - Charles Davis, DE, Georgia
22. Dallas - DeMarcus Tyler, DT, NC State
23. Kansas City - Dwayne Jarrett, WR, USC
24. New England (from Seattle) - Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno State
25. New York Jets - Daymeion Hughes, CB, Cal
26. Philadelphia - Michael Bush, RB, Louisville
27. New Orleans - Greg Olsen, TE, Miami
28. New England - Steve Smith, WR, USC
29. Baltimore - Aaron Ross, CB, Texas
30. San Diego - Reggie Nelson, S, Florida
31. Chicago - Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State
32. Indianapolis - Buster Davis, LB, Florida StateIf it falls this way, would this be the first time in draft history that Dlinemen placed 5 of top 10 places?

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 09:48 AM
kast--
does okoye at #4 have anything to do with gruden's work with him at the Senior Bowl? or is this just scuttlebutt you are hearing?
more of the former. the only scuttlebutt i've really heard in regards to the bucs' pick is that monte kiffin really likes adam carriker. okoye just fits the defense perfectly. and booger macfarland is gone.

Meloy
02-23-2007, 09:51 AM
more of the former. the only scuttlebutt i've really heard in regards to the bucs' pick is that monte kiffin really likes adam carriker. okoye just fits the defense perfectly. and booger macfarland is gone.Some people do not have Okoye in top 10. Is this a need pick and worry about value later? Everything I read says he need 2-3 years to hit stride. Of course that is about where Mario WIlliams is.

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 09:53 AM
What is your rationale for Denver going DE at 21?
good player, good fit, makes sense.

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 09:58 AM
Some people do not have Okoye in top 10. Is this a need pick and worry about value later? Everything I read says he need 2-3 years to hit stride. Of course that is about where Mario WIlliams is.
the value is there. i suppose he could be had a few spots later, but he wouldn't drop out of the top 10.

Texian
02-23-2007, 10:19 AM
i highly doubt that chris houston is the first corner drafted, and i also dont think reggie nelson will fall that far.

After he runs a 4.3 and looks back at Revis 4.4 and Hall 4.5 at the combine he will.

Denver, I am sure you meant Charles Johnson not Davis

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 10:21 AM
After he runs a 4.3 and looks back at Revis 4.4 and Hall 4.5 at the combine he will.

Denver, I am sure you meant Charles Johnson not Davis
haha yeah i had Davis from NFL Network in my mind, that ultra-smiling weirdo.

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 10:59 AM
i highly doubt that chris houston is the first corner drafted, and i also dont think reggie nelson will fall that far.

He's a true cover corner. Those guys always shoot up the boards. Do some research on his preformances against some of the SEC tallent on the board this year at WR ...it's not a reach. He played well against them in press coverage. Get the QB, protect the QB, deffend the QB, that is the modern era in the draft in a nut shell. Those are the skill set that comand the money. He posts 4.4 sunday...he'll go higher than projected by the mockers. Saftey's, barring Sean Taylor like numbers, tend fall unless they got a skill set for a corner back transition.

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 11:07 AM
I'm not going to rehash old arguments, Kast. It's a good mock.

• The timing of the Raiders' decision not to pay Aaron Brooks' $5 million roster bonus was interesting. The Raiders are preparing to watch LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell throw at the combine. Andrew Walter is the only quarterback on the roster with experience, so it seems to be a sure thing that Russell will go to the Raiders as the first pick in the draft.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2775871

Still saying big Al doesn't pass up his chance to stick it to everyone from the grave. Not saying that CJ isn't the best player on the board. Saying Jamarcus is too sweet a prospect for Big Al to pass up.

beerlover
02-23-2007, 11:21 AM
kast--
does okoye at #4 have anything to do with gruden's work with him at the Senior Bowl? or is this just scuttlebutt you are hearing?

just code for Katz "man-love" on okoye being a top 5 pick & Quinn becoming a fish :heh:

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 11:26 AM
just code for Katz "man-love" on okoye being a top 5 pick & Quinn becoming a fish :heh:

I didn't post that lol. Just wondering what the fish would give for a swap ? :phone:

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-23-2007, 11:31 AM
Not too bad, but Landry won't fall that far.

The reason I always give you a hard time about LaRon and Jamarcus is because I'm a huge LSU fan and I've watched every snap these guys have played. LaRon Landry is in the same category as Sean Taylor and Ed Reed. He's going to be incredible. So I feel I can comment more on LSU players than the average person.

P.S. you don't think Dwayne Bowe will go first round?

Ole Miss Texan
02-23-2007, 06:53 PM
Not too bad, but Landry won't fall that far.

The reason I always give you a hard time about LaRon and Jamarcus is because I'm a huge LSU fan and I've watched every snap these guys have played. LaRon Landry is in the same category as Sean Taylor and Ed Reed. He's going to be incredible. So I feel I can comment more on LSU players than the average person.

P.S. you don't think Dwayne Bowe will go first round?

I really see Laron going 11-14.

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 07:12 PM
landry should go, but it's a matter of whose drafting there. i think if atlanta doesn't pull the trigger, then no one will for a little while. good trade-up scenario there, though.

im thinking of swapping jarrett and dwayne bowe. jarrett may not be a first rounder when it's all said and done. although i'm sure SOMEONE will take him.

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 07:13 PM
just code for Katz "man-love" on okoye being a top 5 pick & Quinn becoming a fish :heh:
i don't really have much man-love for okoye. i've spoken up on how i dont want miami to draft him at all. i'm just stating the facts. he's a great prospect and the bucs love him.

Navy_Chris
02-23-2007, 08:19 PM
right in the middle of the combine! fun.

1. Oakland - Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
2. Detroit - Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin
3. Cleveland - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
4. Tampa Bay - Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
5. Arizona - Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
6. Washington - Alan Branch, DT, Michigan
7. Minnesota - Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
8. Houston - Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
9. Miami - Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
10. Atlanta - Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska
11. San Francisco - Ted Ginn, Jr, WR, Ohio State
12. Buffalo - Chris Houston, CB, Arkansas
13. St. Louis - Patrick Willis, LB, Ole Miss
14. Carolina - Levi Brown, T, Penn State
15. Pittsburgh - Darrelle Revis, CB, Pittsburgh
16. Green Bay - Marshawn Lynch, RB, Cal
17. Jacksonville - Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State
18. Cincinnati - LaRon Landry, S, LSU
19. Tennessee - Robert Meachem, WR, Tennessee
20. New York Giants - Leon Hall, CB, Michigan
21. Denver - Charles Johnson, DE, Georgia
22. Dallas - DeMarcus Tyler, DT, NC State
23. Kansas City - Dwayne Jarrett, WR, USC
24. New England (from Seattle) - Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno State
25. New York Jets - Daymeion Hughes, CB, Cal
26. Philadelphia - Michael Bush, RB, Louisville
27. New Orleans - Greg Olsen, TE, Miami
28. New England - Steve Smith, WR, USC
29. Baltimore - Aaron Ross, CB, Texas
30. San Diego - Reggie Nelson, S, Florida
31. Chicago - Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State
32. Indianapolis - Buster Davis, LB, Florida State

Tell me why Chicago's drafting Zach Miller and not Paul Pozluszny...

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 08:25 PM
i believe there's a rule somewhere in the draft bylaws that you can't draft a player that's already been selected.

V Man
02-23-2007, 09:05 PM
i believe there's a rule somewhere in the draft bylaws that you can't draft a player that's already been selected.

I think I have heard that as well.:winky:

It looks good. I could see Atlanta taking one of the safeties also (of course they could take almost any Defense Position and fill a need).

KennyHolmes99
02-23-2007, 09:15 PM
I don't see Ginn getting a spot before Jarrett

Insideop
02-23-2007, 09:53 PM
right in the middle of the combine! fun.

1. Oakland - Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
2. Detroit - Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin
3. Cleveland - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
4. Tampa Bay - Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
5. Arizona - Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
6. Washington - Alan Branch, DT, Michigan
7. Minnesota - Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
8. Houston - Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
9. Miami - Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
10. Atlanta - Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska
11. San Francisco - Ted Ginn, Jr, WR, Ohio State
12. Buffalo - Chris Houston, CB, Arkansas
13. St. Louis - Patrick Willis, LB, Ole Miss
14. Carolina - Levi Brown, T, Penn State
15. Pittsburgh - Darrelle Revis, CB, Pittsburgh
16. Green Bay - Marshawn Lynch, RB, Cal
17. Jacksonville - Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State
18. Cincinnati - LaRon Landry, S, LSU
19. Tennessee - Robert Meachem, WR, Tennessee
20. New York Giants - Leon Hall, CB, Michigan
21. Denver - Charles Johnson, DE, Georgia
22. Dallas - DeMarcus Tyler, DT, NC State
23. Kansas City - Dwayne Jarrett, WR, USC
24. New England (from Seattle) - Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno State
25. New York Jets - Daymeion Hughes, CB, Cal
26. Philadelphia - Michael Bush, RB, Louisville
27. New Orleans - Greg Olsen, TE, Miami
28. New England - Steve Smith, WR, USC
29. Baltimore - Aaron Ross, CB, Texas
30. San Diego - Reggie Nelson, S, Florida
31. Chicago - Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State
32. Indianapolis - Buster Davis, LB, Florida State


Interesting mock kast. I still think/hope Okoye is there for us at #8 and that the Texans select him, but I imagine that if AP is there they will for sure take him instead. Although, I still believe Cleveland will take AP at #3.

Also, don't be too surprised if Arizona takes Brown at #5, or at least tries to trade down and get him with a lower pick. They need someone to replace Davis now and Brown's stock has been rising. His Combine could possibly push him that high, just have to wait and see. JMHO!

BattleRedToro
02-23-2007, 09:57 PM
Interesting mock kast. I still think/hope Okoye is there for us at #8 and that the Texans select him, but I imagine that if AP is there they will for sure take him instead. Although, I still believe Cleveland will take AP at #3.

Also, don't be too surprised if Arizona takes Brown at #5, or at least tries to trade down and get him with a lower pick. They need someone to replace Davis now and Brown's stock has been rising. His Combine could possibly push him that high, just have to wait and see. JMHO!

Just one question.

Where do you project Okoye to play on the Texans's D-Line?

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 09:57 PM
I don't see Ginn getting a spot before Jarrett
ginn=top 10, and jarrett is barely first round.

BattleRedToro
02-23-2007, 09:58 PM
I still think that the Raiders might go with Adrian Peterson at #1. I could also see the Vikings going for a QB at #7.

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 10:03 PM
Just asking Kast, because you have AD dropping to 8, & I think you've been pretty consistent with that thought.

Do you think Reggie Bush is that much better than AD, that you had Reggie rated above two franchise QBs, but AD rated behind DTs, DEs, OLTs... etc??

kiwitexansfan
02-23-2007, 10:17 PM
He's a true cover corner. Those guys always shoot up the boards. Do some research on his preformances against some of the SEC tallent on the board this year at WR ...it's not a reach. He played well against them in press coverage. Get the QB, protect the QB, deffend the QB, that is the modern era in the draft in a nut shell. Those are the skill set that comand the money. He posts 4.4 sunday...he'll go higher than projected by the mockers. Saftey's, barring Sean Taylor like numbers, tend fall unless they got a skill set for a corner back transition.

Just how good is he??

I have man love for true cover corners would it be insane to take him at #8??

Educate me people, I don't see any college ball over here.

How exciting a cover corner in the draft :doot:

kastofsna
02-23-2007, 10:18 PM
Just asking Kast, because you have AD dropping to 8, & I think you've been pretty consistent with that thought.

Do you think Reggie Bush is that much better than AD, that you had Reggie rated above two franchise QBs, but AD rated behind DTs, DEs, OLTs... etc??
not really sure what you're saying. where i have a player going in a draft isnt indicative about how i feel about them. i think adam carriker is the best defensive player in this draft. he's going #10 overall. i think peterson is the best RB prospect since barry sanders. doesn't mean he's the first player taken.

Navy_Chris
02-23-2007, 10:38 PM
i believe there's a rule somewhere in the draft bylaws that you can't draft a player that's already been selected.

haha. i know that, but no way does Pozluzsny go any higher than 31 to the Bears. At 17, I expect Jacksonville to go for a playmaking, speedy WR.

kiwitexansfan
02-23-2007, 10:39 PM
Jacksonville has a lot invested in wideouts already and are high on Jones and Williams still from what I hear.

Also plenty of decent WR's in this years draft.

Navy_Chris
02-23-2007, 10:43 PM
Jacksonville has a lot invested in wideouts already and are high on Jones and Williams still from what I hear.

Also plenty of decent WR's in this years draft.

They lack a speedy WR though. Jones, Wilford, and Williams are all tall, possession receivers who lack breakaway speed and hardcore playmaking ability. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sidney Rice land here at #17.

Navy_Chris
02-23-2007, 11:05 PM
right in the middle of the combine! fun.

1. Oakland - Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
2. Detroit - Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin
3. Cleveland - JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
4. Tampa Bay - Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville
5. Arizona - Jamaal Anderson, DE, Arkansas
6. Washington - Alan Branch, DT, Michigan
7. Minnesota - Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
8. Houston - Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
9. Miami - Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
10. Atlanta - Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska
11. San Francisco - Ted Ginn, Jr, WR, Ohio State
12. Buffalo - Chris Houston, CB, Arkansas
13. St. Louis - Patrick Willis, LB, Ole Miss
14. Carolina - Levi Brown, T, Penn State
15. Pittsburgh - Darrelle Revis, CB, Pittsburgh
16. Green Bay - Marshawn Lynch, RB, Cal
17. Jacksonville - Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State
18. Cincinnati - LaRon Landry, S, LSU
19. Tennessee - Robert Meachem, WR, Tennessee
20. New York Giants - Leon Hall, CB, Michigan
21. Denver - Charles Johnson, DE, Georgia
22. Dallas - DeMarcus Tyler, DT, NC State
23. Kansas City - Dwayne Jarrett, WR, USC
24. New England (from Seattle) - Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno State
25. New York Jets - Daymeion Hughes, CB, Cal
26. Philadelphia - Michael Bush, RB, Louisville
27. New Orleans - Greg Olsen, TE, Miami
28. New England - Steve Smith, WR, USC
29. Baltimore - Aaron Ross, CB, Texas
30. San Diego - Reggie Nelson, S, Florida
31. Chicago - Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State
32. Indianapolis - Buster Davis, LB, Florida State

Leon Hall is a joke. Combine #'s are worthless to me. When does a player ever stand 7 yards from the endzone and do a broad jump into it???

Back to the first sentence. Hall got burned by Jarrett and Ginn, NOW you're gonna tell me that just because of a 4.5 40, he's back in the 'first round' discussion...HA. This guy will not turn into anything spectacular at the next level. If I were the Giants (or any team picking in the 1st round) I would save my money and not waste my time on this joke of a CB.

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 11:09 PM
not really sure what you're saying. where i have a player going in a draft isnt indicative about how i feel about them. i think adam carriker is the best defensive player in this draft. he's going #10 overall. i think peterson is the best RB prospect since barry sanders. doesn't mean he's the first player taken.

So how do you place them??

Navy_Chris
02-23-2007, 11:17 PM
not really sure what you're saying. where i have a player going in a draft isnt indicative about how i feel about them. i think adam carriker is the best defensive player in this draft. he's going #10 overall. i think peterson is the best RB prospect since barry sanders. doesn't mean he's the first player taken.

I don't mean this in a negative way at all. But, are you anything more than a huge football follower? I mean, do you work for the Texans, or Scouts, Inc. or something?

Adam Carriker, best defensive player in the draft?!
Leon Hall?! runs in the 4.5 range, so now he's a top CB? He's been extremely overrated all year.

I run a 4.47, do you think I have a chance to be a top pick? I mean, I'm sure I would get beaten by a guy like Ginn or Jarrett or Rice in a game..But hey, I run fast.

PFT.

I'm in no way coming down on you, so i apologize if it sounds that way. I'm just disagreeing with your entire 'draft ideology'. What a player does on gameday is what gets him drafted. NOT what he does at the combine. OR, at least that's the way it should be.

Xman
02-24-2007, 10:53 AM
I agree with K that each of us have a different opinion of which players are the best - but the opinions of others are what effects draft order. So, even if I thought AP was the next Dickerson or Quinn was the next coming of Montana, my mock still would not have then going first overall - because other opinions are not aligned with mine. On the other hand, if a team really believes a player is that good - they should target them higher than other teams rankings (because of smoke screens hiding true opinions).

My input on the mock: I think Minn takes a qb if either of the top 2 is there. I think Cleve takes AP - he is just too good.

kastofsna
02-24-2007, 11:06 AM
I don't mean this in a negative way at all. But, are you anything more than a huge football follower? I mean, do you work for the Texans, or Scouts, Inc. or something?

Adam Carriker, best defensive player in the draft?!
Leon Hall?! runs in the 4.5 range, so now he's a top CB? He's been extremely overrated all year.

I run a 4.47, do you think I have a chance to be a top pick? I mean, I'm sure I would get beaten by a guy like Ginn or Jarrett or Rice in a game..But hey, I run fast.

PFT.

I'm in no way coming down on you, so i apologize if it sounds that way. I'm just disagreeing with your entire 'draft ideology'. What a player does on gameday is what gets him drafted. NOT what he does at the combine. OR, at least that's the way it should be.
i'm not sure why you keep talking about leon hall, i've never said he was that great, in fact i have him going a lot lower than most people who still see him as the best corner in the draft. he's not. however, he's not nearly as awful as you pretend he is. he's got tons of experience, he's very technically sound and while he's not as gifted as houston or revis or some other guys, he's still a first rounder.

and i've been talking about carriker all year long. long before the combine or senior bowl.

YoungTexanFan
02-24-2007, 11:41 AM
i'm not sure why you keep talking about leon hall, i've never said he was that great, in fact i have him going a lot lower than most people who still see him as the best corner in the draft. he's not. however, he's not nearly as awful as you pretend he is. he's got tons of experience, he's very technically sound and while he's not as gifted as houston or revis or some other guys, he's still a first rounder.

and i've been talking about carriker all year long. long before the combine or senior bowl.

This is true. Kastofsna has been pimp Carriker all year long. Leon Hall is overrated, but still a 1st rounder. He won't be a huge impact rookie, but he will be a solid player.

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-24-2007, 04:01 PM
landry should go, but it's a matter of whose drafting there. i think if atlanta doesn't pull the trigger, then no one will for a little while. good trade-up scenario there, though.

im thinking of swapping jarrett and dwayne bowe. jarrett may not be a first rounder when it's all said and done. although i'm sure SOMEONE will take him.

If the Titans traded up and got Landry I would have no problem with that.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 05:58 PM
This is true. Kastofsna has been pimp Carriker all year long. Leon Hall is overrated, but still a 1st rounder. He won't be a huge impact rookie, but he will be a solid player.

This just in....

You don't take "solid" players in Round 1. You take immediate impact guys. Guys that produce from Day 1. You also look for guys who have tremendous upside. I'm sorry, but Leon Hall, in my opinion, WILL NOT be an immediate impact guy, NOR does he have the kind of potential that you look for in a 1st Round pick. I would honestly take my chances on Day 2 with guys like Corey Graham or Michael Coe before I'd even entertain a thought on Leon Hall.
This guy looked ABSOLUTELY ridiculous trying to cover Jarrett and Ginn, two top WR prospects. And now you're trying to tell me that because of a good combine workout he's a first round pick?.....?.....

kastofsna
02-24-2007, 08:23 PM
for the love of pete, hall didn't cover jarrett at all in that game.

CowboysTexansFan
02-24-2007, 08:27 PM
How much, if any, do you think Levi Brown's slow time in the 40 is going to impact his desirability? PFT is reporting he ran a 5.39.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 08:31 PM
for the love of pete, hall didn't cover jarrett at all in that game.

my bad! ok, Leon Hall did not cover Dwayne Jarrett everybody. Leon Hall IS the best corner in the draft. kastofsna is right about everything. his mock is the best i've ever seen.

Here's the deal, i'll give you my first round mock and you send me yours...i guess we'll have to see who's closest.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 08:35 PM
How much, if any, do you think Levi Brown's slow time in the 40 is going to impact his desirability? PFT is reporting he ran a 5.39.

I know this question wasn't for me, it was for the great kastofsna, but i think i'll attempt to answer this one. kastofsna, tell me if i'm right or wrong...ok.

Offensive linemen are not judged solely on their time. Coaches more or less look at HOW they run the 40....do they get a good enough explosion at the start? do they have good balance..body control? No, I don't care if he ran a 5.8. Coaches wouldn't care less about what his time was.

kastofsna
02-24-2007, 08:55 PM
my bad! ok, Leon Hall did not cover Dwayne Jarrett everybody. Leon Hall IS the best corner in the draft. kastofsna is right about everything. his mock is the best i've ever seen.

Here's the deal, i'll give you my first round mock and you send me yours...i guess we'll have to see who's closest.
lol, your hatred against hall is amazing. i said he's not the best corner in the draft. 3rd or 4th. i've criticized people for having the dolphins select him in their mocks for a while. there's really no reason at all to think i have some ridiculous love affair with leon hall, in fact, since i have him going lower compared to most other mocks, i'd expect you to throw some praise my way. but hey, whatever floats your boat son.

kastofsna
02-24-2007, 08:56 PM
I know this question wasn't for me, it was for the great kastofsna, but i think i'll attempt to answer this one. kastofsna, tell me if i'm right or wrong...ok.

Offensive linemen are not judged solely on their time. Coaches more or less look at HOW they run the 40....do they get a good enough explosion at the start? do they have good balance..body control? No, I don't care if he ran a 5.8. Coaches wouldn't care less about what his time was.
pretty much every player's 10-yard splits are important with the 40. the 40 for linemen is more just to determine how much of an overall athlete they are, it's not like coaches really care that much. unless it's drastically low.

Navy_Chris
02-24-2007, 08:59 PM
lol, your hatred against hall is amazing. i said he's not the best corner in the draft. 3rd or 4th. i've criticized people for having the dolphins select him in their mocks for a while. there's really no reason at all to think i have some ridiculous love affair with leon hall, in fact, since i have him going lower compared to most other mocks, i'd expect you to throw some praise my way. but hey, whatever floats your boat son.


I mean, I'll give you some praise for not having him rated over some of the others out there. I'm not trying to argue with you as much as I'm arguing against the fact the Hall is going to be a first round pick, when at times he has played like he has no business being on the field. I'd take him in the 3rd or something if I needed a corner and he was still there, but to say he's a 1st rounder is a stretch, in my opinion.

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-25-2007, 12:55 AM
pretty much every player's 10-yard splits are important with the 40. the 40 for linemen is more just to determine how much of an overall athlete they are, it's not like coaches really care that much. unless it's drastically low.

The 40 is overrated. Jerry Rice ran like a 4.6.

kastofsna
02-25-2007, 01:56 AM
blah blah blah the 40 is overrated blah blah blah stats mean nothing blah blah blah

run-david-run
02-25-2007, 10:32 AM
blah blah blah the 40 is overrated blah blah blah stats mean nothing blah blah blah

Great argument there, very comendable. And stats can be very important, I just prefer to look at the ones that involve actual gameplay, pads, and a football.

DenverBorn
02-25-2007, 03:35 PM
ZERO percent chance that Peterson falls to 8

SF49erFaithful
02-25-2007, 07:19 PM
Kast - I don't want to sound rude because you took the time to make this mock, but why do you give SF Ted Ginn? Was it one of those picks where you didn't know where else to put him so you stuck him there, or do you think the 49ers will actually choose him?

People seriously need to stop giving SF a WR. And I'm not just saying this because I don't want it...it is no secret the 49ers plan on going defense at #11.

kastofsna
02-25-2007, 07:25 PM
because if ted ginn is available at #11, he presents great value and the niners desperately need a WR and they will take ginn if he's available, as even though their focus may be on defense, they're also not idiots and will wait for the first 10 picks to play out before making their decision.

Ole Miss Texan
02-25-2007, 07:47 PM
Kast - I don't want to sound rude because you took the time to make this mock, but why do you give SF Ted Ginn? Was it one of those picks where you didn't know where else to put him so you stuck him there, or do you think the 49ers will actually choose him?

People seriously need to stop giving SF a WR. And I'm not just saying this because I don't want it...it is no secret the 49ers plan on going defense at #11.

Seeing how San Fran needs some help on defense. what are the chances they trade up with houston (they give us their 1st and 3rd)??

If a player like Jamaal Anderson or Gaines Adams, Alan Branch or Amobi Okoye, or Landry or Nelson??

would they covet any of these players enough to trade up for them??? If not they'd still be sitting pretty to take a good player whoever falls to them. i just want a small trade down...so we can trade back up in the 1st w/ NE for Kalil.

Mr teX
02-25-2007, 09:32 PM
ZERO percent chance that Peterson falls to 8

Yep, after that 4o time & other drill he was tops in, My man love was not enough to overcome the looming realization that he most likely wasn't going to be there; Dag!.................................:crying: :crying:

SF49erFaithful
02-25-2007, 11:11 PM
because if ted ginn is available at #11, he presents great value and the niners desperately need a WR and they will take ginn if he's available, as even though their focus may be on defense, they're also not idiots and will wait for the first 10 picks to play out before making their decision.

Well I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on his value because I think that would be a reach. Also, I don't think our starters at WR (Antonio Bryant and Arnaz Battle) need to be improved too much, but our depth is rather poor. So since this draft is so deep at WR I think we could get someone in the 3rd or 4th round who could be the 3rd/4th wide receiver on the depth chart.

Other things to keep in mind...

1) The 49ers are a run-first team and not a passing one. We have a 1500+ yard rusher in Frank Gore and a larger, road-grading offensive line built for a power running game. This isn't a Bengal or Colt style offense which requires two 1,000 yard receivers.

2) People are too quick to forget who we drafted with our first pick last year. Vernon Davis was just a rookie and we need to be patient with him. Him and Alex Smith need to build some chemistry together over this offseason, and I expect much improved play from both. I think the same goes with Antonio Bryant as well, that he should continue to grow with Alex Smith. For instance, look at Arnaz Battle. He was the only starting reciever (Including TE) who was in SF Alex's rookie year, and they had two years together. Surprise, surprise! Battle broke out his 2nd season with Smith. So by next year the passing offense could improve, even without adding any new, starting receiving threats. Just by letting Alex Smith grow with guys like Bryant and Davis.

3) Just look at how bad our defense was. Here is a snippet from a post of mine from the 49ers board. And defense is a far greater need. This season our defense gave up point totals of 34, 38, 41, 48, 41, 34, 30, and we even surrendered 20 points to a putrid Oakland offense. That is 7, count 'em, 7 times we gave up at least 30 points in a game.

So if Ginn is available at #11, you can count on the 49ers passing on him.

SF49erFaithful
02-25-2007, 11:13 PM
Seeing how San Fran needs some help on defense. what are the chances they trade up with houston (they give us their 1st and 3rd)??

If a player like Jamaal Anderson or Gaines Adams, Alan Branch or Amobi Okoye, or Landry or Nelson??

would they covet any of these players enough to trade up for them??? If not they'd still be sitting pretty to take a good player whoever falls to them. i just want a small trade down...so we can trade back up in the 1st w/ NE for Kalil.

It is hard to tell with the draft being as far away as it is. I guess it is possible wouldn't bank on it.

kastofsna
02-25-2007, 11:14 PM
yup, i'm aware of all of that. still, ginn is good value and fills a need. makes sense. so i'll have the niners taking him for now.

SF49erFaithful
02-25-2007, 11:19 PM
yup, i'm aware of all of that. still, ginn is good value and fills a need. makes sense. so i'll have the niners taking him for now.

Well at least it is better than Dwayne Jarrett. :drunk:

Navy_Chris
02-25-2007, 11:22 PM
Well at least it is better than Dwayne Jarrett. :drunk:

Ginn?? better than Jarrett?? he may be faster, but if i want a complete receiver i'm going with my boy Dwayne all the way. All that crap about past USC receivers not having much success in the league....who cares? That was then, this is now.

kastofsna
02-25-2007, 11:26 PM
lol @ jarrett being complete. he has good hands, and that's it. terrible routes, slow, can't break away from corners, etc. very bad receiver.

SF49erFaithful
02-25-2007, 11:27 PM
The 40 is overrated. Jerry Rice ran like a 4.6.

Yup, I agree. I'm not sure exactly how much other teams value drills like that but Mike Nolan and Scott McCloughan of the 49ers put very little stock into combine workouts and the wonderlic. At the combine they say the medical is definitely the most important thing about the combine followed by personal interviews.

Navy_Chris
02-25-2007, 11:29 PM
lol @ jarrett being complete. he has good hands, and that's it. terrible routes, slow, can't break away from corners, etc. very bad receiver.

haha. all the success he had in college was just a fluke, right? i'm not trying to get into it with you again, but....i mean, if it was jarrett or meachem, i'd take meachem, hands down. since the argument is jarrett or ginn, i'm going with jarrett.

I actually have Ted Ginn at #6 on my list of WRs.

SF49erFaithful
02-25-2007, 11:31 PM
Ginn?? better than Jarrett?? he may be faster, but if i want a complete receiver i'm going with my boy Dwayne all the way. All that crap about past USC receivers not having much success in the league....who cares? That was then, this is now.

Jarrett was an excellent college receiver but he isn't that great of a prospect in my opinion. Nice hands and size? Yes. But a slow player who struggles mightily to get separation from even college corners.

I think the other Dwayne (Bowe that is) is a superior prospect than Ginn though. Big guy but is quick in and out of cuts and runs nice routes. His counterpart Craig Davis may make a nice NFL wideout as well.

kastofsna
02-25-2007, 11:36 PM
haha. all the success he had in college was just a fluke, right? i'm not trying to get into it with you again, but....i mean, if it was jarrett or meachem, i'd take meachem, hands down. since the argument is jarrett or ginn, i'm going with jarrett.

I actually have Ted Ginn at #6 on my list of WRs.
this si why ya can't just look at college production when projecting a player to the NFL.

i can tell ya right now without steve smith, jarrett is nothing. absolutely nothing. smith's precision routes and seperation sliced through defenses all the time, giving jarrett all kinds of great opprotunities to catch the ball. smith's now #3 on my board at WR. he's going to be great.

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2007, 11:40 PM
smith's now #3 on my board at WR.

Wow. I like the guy too, but wow. Meachem, Rice, Ginn, Bowe, Davis should all be ahead of him, and thats only if you dislike Jarrett.

Navy_Chris
02-25-2007, 11:50 PM
this si why ya can't just look at college production when projecting a player to the NFL.

i can tell ya right now without steve smith, jarrett is nothing. absolutely nothing. smith's precision routes and seperation sliced through defenses all the time, giving jarrett all kinds of great opprotunities to catch the ball. smith's now #3 on my board at WR. he's going to be great.

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Robert Meachem
3. Dwayne Bowe
4. Sidney Rice
5. Dwayne Jarrett
6. Ted Ginn
7. Chansi Stuckey

In my newest mock, I have Meachem in the 2nd round. I know my Texans probably won't draft him, but I'd like to see it happen. I think it's funny how Meachem is 4 or 5 on everyone's list.

Steve Smith is good, but his height is a big question mark for me. How is he going to match up with taller, more physical corners in the league?

kastofsna
02-25-2007, 11:52 PM
Steve Smith is good, but his height is a big question mark for me. How is he going to match up with taller, more physical corners in the league?
the same way all those other succesful receivers under 6' tall do it...

YoungTexanFan
02-25-2007, 11:53 PM
I don't really know how to do this, but some people are good at computers and can do magic with them. If you are one of those people, please pull up what I said about Meachem months ago. You will find that I have had him as the #2 WR in the draft for a LONG time.

If only people listened to YTF when he made predictions.

Navy_Chris
02-25-2007, 11:57 PM
I don't really know how to do this, but some people are good at computers and can do magic with them. If you are one of those people, please pull up what I said about Meachem months ago. You will find that I have had him as the #2 WR in the draft for a LONG time.

If only people listened to YTF when he made predictions.

gotta give you yours for having meachem #2 for so long. I had him as my #5 receiver up until recently. His character is what really sealed the deal for me. He's a class act, and it doesn't hurt that he's good at football, either..haha.

Ole Miss Texan
02-25-2007, 11:59 PM
I don't really know how to do this, but some people are good at computers and can do magic with them. If you are one of those people, please pull up what I said about Meachem months ago. You will find that I have had him as the #2 WR in the draft for a LONG time.

If only people listened to YTF when he made predictions.

I will concur. I don't remember about Meachem in particular. But I agree with a lot of the things you say. A lot of people have their opinions but you tend to bring validity to yours. Correct me if I'm wrong but you also brought up Reggie Nelson before most knew anything about him.

How people overlook the players in the SEC is beyond me. See Reggie Nelson, Robert Meachem, Patrick Willis, Chris Houston just to name a few.

Navy_Chris
02-26-2007, 12:04 AM
I will concur. I don't remember about Meachem in particular. But I agree with a lot of the things you say. A lot of people have their opinions but you tend to bring validity to yours. Correct me if I'm wrong but you also brought up Reggie Nelson before most knew anything about him.

How people overlook the players in the SEC is beyond me. See Reggie Nelson, Robert Meachem, Patrick Willis, Chris Houston just to name a few.

Whoa..don't lump me into that bunch, buddy. Reggie Nelson has always been just a tad under Landry since the end of the season in my book. The ONLY thing I don't like about Reggie is that he can be a bit TOO aggressive sometimes. But, most rookie DBs are.

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2007, 12:07 AM
Whoa..don't lump me into that bunch, buddy. Reggie Nelson has always been just a tad under Landry since the end of the season in my book. The ONLY thing I don't like about Reggie is that he can be a bit TOO aggressive sometimes. But, most rookie DBs are.

I'm not saying anyone in particular. But what I mean is us talking about those guys at the beginning or middle of the season...back in september...not january.

Navy_Chris
02-26-2007, 12:08 AM
I'm not saying anyone in particular. But what I mean is us talking about those guys at the beginning or middle of the season...back in september...not january.

Oh. I'm a Gator fan through and through. So, Reggie's been on my radar for a long time. I'd like our first rounder to be Landry, in all honesty.

mexican_texan
02-26-2007, 12:17 AM
I don't really know how to do this, but some people are good at computers and can do magic with them. If you are one of those people, please pull up what I said about Meachem months ago. You will find that I have had him as the #2 WR in the draft for a LONG time.

If only people listened to YTF when he made predictions.
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=33394&highlight=Meachem

1. CJ - top 3 pick
2. Meachem - AJ/^CJ clone. top 12 pick.
3. Rice - true #1 reciever
4. Bowe - underrated, top body control.
5. Jarrett - overrated. will be a #2 at best. possession reciver but better than mike williams...slightly.
6. Ginn - slot WR/special team standout at best. sloppy routes and questionable hands.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2007, 12:27 AM
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=33394&highlight=Meachem

1. CJ - top 3 pick
2. Meachem - AJ/^CJ clone. top 12 pick.
3. Rice - true #1 reciever
4. Bowe - underrated, top body control.
5. Jarrett - overrated. will be a #2 at best. possession reciver but better than mike williams...slightly.
6. Ginn - slot WR/special team standout at best. sloppy routes and questionable hands.

I was gona give you some rep, but I have to "spread it around first".

This is what I posted a while ago.

Rice surprised me with his time, I was expecting something around a 4.43. He is fast on the field though, and makes the plays. I still don't believe in Ginn as a WR, regardless of what Kastofsna says.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2007, 12:28 AM
I will concur. I don't remember about Meachem in particular. But I agree with a lot of the things you say. A lot of people have their opinions but you tend to bring validity to yours. Correct me if I'm wrong but you also brought up Reggie Nelson before most knew anything about him.

How people overlook the players in the SEC is beyond me. See Reggie Nelson, Robert Meachem, Patrick Willis, Chris Houston just to name a few.

Yes, I believe I was one of the first to even mention his name on our board.

I also was one of the first to bring Chris Houston to the spot-light. Mork did notice him at the same time I did, and convinced me some too.

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2007, 12:29 AM
I think Ginn will be a big assett to a team that has a lot of their #$@% together. He reminds me of a reggie bush pick to an extent. He'll add a diminsion to their game plan and will really contribute, but you have to have the rest of your offense intact.

Ginn will do really well if put on the right team.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2007, 12:30 AM
Man, I posted that list back in December. And Kastofsna had Steve Smith going before Jarrett then too.

mexican_texan
02-26-2007, 12:31 AM
I was gona give you some rep, but I have to "spread it around first".

This is what I posted a while ago.

Rice surprised me with his time, I was expecting something around a 4.43. He is fast on the field though, and makes the plays. I still don't believe in Ginn as a WR, regardless of what Kastofsna says.
Mike Mayock(I think) said it was Rice's expected time, as he builds up speed as he runs.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2007, 12:31 AM
I think Ginn will be a big assett to a team that has a lot of their #$@% together. He reminds me of a reggie bush pick to an extent. He'll add a diminsion to their game plan and will really contribute, but you have to have the rest of your offense intact.

Ginn will do really well if put on the right team.

Yes, if put on the Colts and told to return kicks and act as a decoy, he could see initial hype. If drafted to a team like Minny, he is screwed.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2007, 12:32 AM
Mike Mayock(I think) said it was Rice's expected time, as he builds up speed as he runs.

What you mean? He expected a 4.43ish time? or the 4.5ish he ran today?

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2007, 12:33 AM
Yes, if put on the Colts and told to return kicks and act as a decoy, he could see initial hype. If drafted to a team like Minny, he is screwed.

hahahaha. hey at least he wouldn't be a #2 overall decoy!? only kidding.

Navy_Chris
02-26-2007, 12:33 AM
I was gona give you some rep, but I have to "spread it around first".

This is what I posted a while ago.

Rice surprised me with his time, I was expecting something around a 4.43. He is fast on the field though, and makes the plays. I still don't believe in Ginn as a WR, regardless of what Kastofsna says.

I think Kastofsna needs some help with his mock drafting. doesn't look or sound too viable to me.

mexican_texan
02-26-2007, 12:33 AM
What you mean? He expected a 4.43ish time? or the 4.5ish he ran today?
The 4.6-ish time he was initially given.

TexansSeminole
02-26-2007, 12:36 AM
lol @ jarrett being complete. he has good hands, and that's it. terrible routes, slow, can't break away from corners, etc. very bad receiver.

Yea I was thinking the same thing when I read that. Maybe not terrible routes or he wouldnt have been as productive as he was but def sloppy routes.

YoungTexanFan
02-26-2007, 12:40 AM
Yea I was thinking the same thing when I read that. Maybe not terrible routes or he wouldnt have been as productive as he was but def sloppy routes.

I thought Jarrett's routes were above average. He still managed to create enough seperation to make his receptions after every opponent knew about him. He may not get elite seperation, but he got what he needed.

Also, Kastofsna, Hall did cover Jarrett a few plays. One of those plays happened to be on a 60ish yard TD reception. I know it's off-topic, but I had to throw that in there.

Ole Miss Texan
02-26-2007, 02:34 AM
one thing i remember about jarrett was the play in 2005 against notre dame. Wasn't it 4th down with like 1:30 left in the game?

Leinart put the ball right in front of him, the ND corner back could not have covered Jarrett and closer or better. I don't think Jarrett could even see the ball. But he caught it and it was a big like 50 yd 1st down, down field.

way off topic but i've always thought that was one of the best plays i've ever seen.

it's at the 14 sec mark, with a different angle at 44 sec.

doesn't show is speed or separation or anything but just thought the pass and catch was amazing..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=weu3ShNvyvE

Navy_Chris
02-26-2007, 02:40 AM
one thing i remember about jarrett was the play in 2005 against notre dame. Wasn't it 4th down with like 1:30 left in the game?

Leinart put the ball right in front of him, the ND corner back could not have covered Jarrett and closer or better. I don't think Jarrett could even see the ball. But he caught it and it was a big like 50 yd 1st down, down field.

way off topic but i've always thought that was one of the best plays i've ever seen.

it's at the 14 sec mark, with a different angle at 44 sec.

doesn't show is speed or separation or anything but just thought the pass and catch was amazing..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=weu3ShNvyvE

you're a smart man with a clear eye for talent. lol. jarrett has the best body control of any receiver i've seen in a long time...right there with CJ. that's why he's able to do the things he does. speed is only one part of a bigger equation. is it important? yes. if a receiver doesnt have blazing speed, is it a negative? no.

Silver Oak
02-26-2007, 08:24 AM
Anyone else see the NFL Network run the piece on Jarrett? They showed game film of him and many of the plays which showed him being covered by Chris Houston (Arkansas). Houston wouldn't let him off the LOS and Jarrett struggled significantly.

kastofsna
02-26-2007, 08:40 AM
any corner worth their weight in salt shutdown jarrett in one-on-one situations. then again, houston also faced robert meachem, sidney rice, dwayne bowe and andre caldwell and only allowed one TD to all of them.

Titan "Tack" Fan
02-26-2007, 09:19 PM
blah blah blah the 40 is overrated blah blah blah stats mean nothing blah blah blah

Remind me the last time the 40 mattered. Vince Young ran like a 4.6 and he ran Rashean Mathis down from behind. Go ahead, im listening.

I mean you call Jarrett a "very bad receiver." What kind of expert thinks he's a very bad receiver? You know what very bad receivers are doing? Sitting at home watching Jarrett get drafted while they coach peewee football.

SF49erFaithful
02-27-2007, 03:36 AM
any corner worth their weight in salt shutdown jarrett in one-on-one situations. then again, houston also faced robert meachem, sidney rice, dwayne bowe and andre caldwell and only allowed one TD to all of them.

Yeah but I'm not sure how much weight that argument carries. Didn't Mike Rumph not allow any TD's at Miami? :tease:

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 08:08 AM
no, that was buchanon.

SF49erFaithful
02-27-2007, 09:49 PM
no, that was buchanon.

Oh ok. I had read (Just on MBs) before that Mike Rumph didn't allow any TD's at Miami.

kastofsna
02-27-2007, 10:42 PM
maybe rumph didn't, too. there weren't many TD's scored on those canes' teams.