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jbh1970
02-22-2007, 11:59 PM
Just Posted.......

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2775871

BleedTheBurntOrange
02-23-2007, 12:11 AM
Just Posted.......

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2775871

That makes me feel better about that trade idea of Pummer and Bell and their 1st and 3rd for our 1st not happening

cj5776
02-23-2007, 12:33 AM
Thanks for REAL news, I never thought Clayton and ESPN would be the dose of reality. But I totally put my faith in this article more than McLame or Denver Media dot com people. Yeah it could be a smoke screen to drive up a market, but it just makes sense the new Texans FO would give Carr more than one year and I still feel McLame is McLame.

CoogBull
02-23-2007, 12:40 AM
I just read the article and seriously hope he is wrong.

I really do not want David back in a Texans uniform next year. The fans just will not back him. People have soured on him so bad it is time to go in a new direction. Unless David can lead us to a Super Bowl while curing cancer in his free time, the fans will eat him alive this season.

I hope David will have a great future in another city.

cj5776
02-23-2007, 12:44 AM
winning cures everything. Yes its that simple. The colts game was enough for me. McLame has stirred up so much of this just to sell papers.

mganz
02-23-2007, 12:45 AM
If he comes back in 07 and the team starts winning, he and the fans will be fine

thunderkyss
02-23-2007, 01:10 AM
If he comes back in 07 and the team starts winning, he and the fans will be fine

Until the old Carr creeps up, like the old Plummer in Denver.

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 10:36 AM
Until the old Carr creeps up, like the old Plummer in Denver.

Well one thing about it TK, sooner or later you can't be wrong correct ?

Look you tell me they're going to pull the trigger on a deal, two players not considered prime time for a lock pick in the draft, I tell you there better be a very high Draft pick in '08 involved. 1400 point pick going down to what a 900 pick ? That is what the man (men) drove home yesterday. They're not taking anyone elses garbage for nothing. Even if it satisfies someones contingency plans for DC here on this board. We've got Denver, Denver don't got us. They need to unload that cap.


INDIANAPOLIS -- David Carr hasn't avoided many sacks during his five NFL seasons, but so far he's avoided being sacked by the Houston Texans.


Alhough the Texans haven't given up on the idea of trading Carr, general manager Rick Smith and coach Gary Kubiak gave Carr an endorsement as the Texans' starting quarterback for 2007. But those endorsements were about as shaky as Carr's pass protection.

David Carr is our quarterback and frankly, I'm interested in David playing better and performing more consistent and improving our offense," Smith said. "There has been so much rumor and innuendo right after the season. There were some clubs who were curious if, in fact, he was available. So I did take a couple of calls."

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 10:49 AM
Well from what he's saying it looks like Carr will be a texan next season. Honestly i dont think he's quite as bad as he gets credit for.

Ole Miss Texan
02-23-2007, 10:52 AM
Well from what he's saying it looks like Carr will be a texan next season. Honestly i dont think he's quite as bad as he gets credit for.

I'm thinking the same thing. I could care less if he's here or if we have another QB, i just hope it's the best thing for the team. I'm fine with Carr here, i don't think they are going to 'give' him away for a 2nd day pick. That'd be a bad deal. If we can't get something we really like for him then i think he stays. It's not worth it just to get rid of him.

texans83
02-23-2007, 11:09 AM
I'm thinking the same thing. I could care less if he's here or if we have another QB, i just hope it's the best thing for the team. I'm fine with Carr here, i don't think they are going to 'give' him away for a 2nd day pick. That'd be a bad deal. If we can't get something we really like for him then i think he stays. It's not worth it just to get rid of him.

Expecially when there is no one else you can bring in better than what you already have. I hope he does well and gets his respect back from both the players and the fans.

TexansTrueFan
02-23-2007, 11:16 AM
Yeah everything will work out for the best, i mean honestly plummer could turn out to be worse here than carr, cause there is a big talent shift from denver to here.

texans83
02-23-2007, 11:24 AM
Yeah everything will work out for the best, i mean honestly plummer could turn out to be worse here than carr, cause there is a big talent shift from denver to here.

HUGE talent shift, but yea thats what im afraid of, You know they can bring Plummer in but I wouldnt get rid of carr. Make them fight it out, and who knows I mean Plummer has had some success maybe he can teach Carr a thing of two. i just want to win, I would like to see us win with david but we will just have to wait and see.

Marcus
02-23-2007, 11:33 AM
If he comes back in 07 and the team starts winning, he and the fans will be fine

Ask the Bears' fans what they think of Rex Grossman. It doesn't matter if the team wins or not, even if they go to the Super Bowl or not. If the fans don't like the QB, they will make their feelings known.

I've said it before, and I will keep saying it. Carr is screwed. He's worn out his welcome. If the Texans happen to start winning, it won't change anything.

I repeat. What do the Bears' fans think of Rex Grossman?:hmmm:

texans83
02-23-2007, 11:50 AM
Ask the Bears' fans what they think of Rex Grossman. It doesn't matter if the team wins or not, even if they go to the Super Bowl or not. If the fans don't like the QB, they will make their feelings known.

I've said it before, and I will keep saying it. Carr is screwed. He's worn out his welcome. If the Texans happen to start winning, it won't change anything.

I repeat. What do the Bears' fans think of Rex Grossman?:hmmm:

well you will have to look at the owners pointe of view, if your qb getts you to the superbowl then who cares.... I would take my chance obviously he did something good.

Double Barrel
02-23-2007, 12:00 PM
Y'all had better be mentally preparing yourselves for David Carr to be the Texans starting QB in 2007. It'll save you a whole lot of headaches from bashing your heads against the wall.

Like it or not, when you root for the Texans next season, you'll have to root on David Carr, as well. It won't do him or the team any good to boo him, and you either have confidence in Kubiak's judgement, coaching abilties, and leadership...or you don't.

Just remember the Colts game 12/24: a solid, consistent running game, some defensive plays, and a QB that did not lose the game and made some throws when needed. This is our formula under this staff, and it was good enough to beat the Super Bowl champs.

My personal opinions and observations aside, I'm a Houston Texans fan first and foremost. And if that includes cheering for DC another season, then so be it. Just hope for the best.

texans83
02-23-2007, 12:23 PM
Y'all had better be mentally preparing yourselves for David Carr to be the Texans starting QB in 2007. It'll save you a whole lot of headaches from bashing your heads against the wall.

Like it or not, when you root for the Texans next season, you'll have to root on David Carr, as well. It won't do him or the team any good to boo him, and you either have confidence in Kubiak's judgement, coaching abilties, and leadership...or you don't.

Just remember the Colts game 12/24: a solid, consistent running game, some defensive plays, and a QB that did not lose the game and made some throws when needed. This is our formula under this staff, and it was good enough to beat the Super Bowl champs.

My personal opinions and observations aside, I'm a Houston Texans fan first and foremost. And if that includes cheering for DC another season, then so be it. Just hope for the best.

well put. I agree and I will wear my Carr jersey to every game just to show I still believe!!!

real
02-23-2007, 12:29 PM
I still stand firm in my beliefs and I don't think there is anyway David is our starter next year...

I seriously doubt he'll be on the team, but If he is, it won't be as a starter....

yourfavoritetexan42
02-23-2007, 12:44 PM
I would much rather have a chance at peterson then end up with two cap casualities in plummer and bell, who aren't even great players.

Vinny
02-23-2007, 12:53 PM
Y'all had better be mentally preparing yourselves for David Carr to be the Texans starting QB in 2007. It'll save you a whole lot of headaches from bashing your heads against the wall.


Just think, Jim Harbaugh was the Bears QB for 7 straight years...My Dad was from Illinois so I followed the Bears a bit over the years when he was alive....gives me the same feel. edit...he didn't start for the full 7, but I'm just comparing the same scintillating TD production and mediocre overall results. It won't shock me to see Carr start here again.

Mr. White
02-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Kinda funny how Harbaugh was considered a stiff until he went somewhere else. Then he became "Captain Comeback."

Vinny
02-23-2007, 01:04 PM
Kinda funny how Harbaugh was considered a stiff until he went somewhere else. Then he became "Captain Comeback."
Yeah, it was a cute catch phrase but his best TD production year was 17. He started a decade or so in the league.

real
02-23-2007, 01:06 PM
DRIVE MY CARR: Texans GM Rick Smith hasn't ruled out trading starting QB David Carr, but he indicated the possibility has diminished in recent weeks.

"The talk has quieted down," Smith said.

The Bucs are believed to be among the teams that contacted Smith shortly after season's end to discuss Carr's availability. Since then, however, Smith repeatedly has said Carr is his "starting quarterback."

Smith didn't back off that claim and added that it would take a deal in which "all the planets aligned" for him to consider dealing Carr, the top overall pick in the 2002 draft.



http://www.tbo.com/sports/bucs/MGBDQ0S3IYE.html

real
02-23-2007, 01:08 PM
I still strongly feel that he won't be here.

hollywood_texan
02-23-2007, 01:08 PM
It's possible they have shopped Carr intensly with no serious takers.

If so, they are now trying to control the situation since it appears Carr will not be traded. For example, now Smith is implying they want more than a 3rd draft pick for Carr in trade. This really looks like political spin and who is going to say otherwise, no one other team is going to devulge what was really discussed.

Like I have said earlier, I believe Carr will be the QB next year. The whole point of this was to establish a new current market value for Carr because his play last year was not worth the $8 million dollar roster bonus and the $5 million salary. Now the Texans can play chicken with Carr, tell him he will be cut or renegotiate his contract to a lesser amount with a butt load of incentives.

Sometimes you gotta play hard ball and flex a little muscle. This is where your poker face comes in and you play a tough hand...

texans83
02-23-2007, 01:11 PM
It's possible they have shopped Carr intensly with no serious takers.

If so, they are now trying to control the situation since it appears Carr will not be traded. For example, now Smith is implying they want more than a 3rd draft pick for Carr in trade. This really looks like political spin and who is going to say otherwise, no one other team is going to devulge what was really discussed.

Like I have said earlier, I believe Carr will be the QB next year. The whole point of this was to establish a new current market value for Carr because his play last year was not worth the $8 million dollar roster bonus and the $5 million salary. Now the Texans can play chicken with Carr, tell him he will be cut or renegotiate his contract to a lesser amount with a butt load of incentives.

Sometimes you gotta play hard ball and flex a little muscle. This is where your poker face comes in and you play a tough hand...

Yea I agree they should deff renegotiate his contract. When is the dead line for that? anyone know

run-david-run
02-23-2007, 01:15 PM
I just read the article and seriously hope he is wrong.

I really do not want David back in a Texans uniform next year. The fans just will not back him. People have soured on him so bad it is time to go in a new direction. Unless David can lead us to a Super Bowl while curing cancer in his free time, the fans will eat him alive this season.

I hope David will have a great future in another city.

I really dont care what the "fans" think (you know, the people that showed up Titan blue), if David can lead the Texans foward, he is our QB, if not, then try to improve our position. The Texans dont owe the fans anything except trying to win every game and improving the team whenever possible. If they think Carr can get it done, thats their decision and I will still support the team.

texans83
02-23-2007, 01:15 PM
I think this is good and bad if we keep Carr. 1) this could give Carr the edge, what I mean is that maybe is sees all these things going around about a possible trade from Houston and he can say well ill show them next year and it could be the time to shine. 2) He coule get worse, like when Kubes benched him in the tennessee game he thought david would be able to bounce back and maybe say ok work for your position now, but I think it only made him worse bc he was scared of rgetting benched again. basically he was trying to hard and making sure he got all his passes weather he just dumped it off but he hardly ever threw it down field. I think Kubes should let Carr audible, maybe it would get his confidence up knowing that Kubes trusts him. David played much better when he was able to audible remb, that was 7-9 season. Anyways I just think these are some things we should look at IMO.

texans83
02-23-2007, 01:16 PM
I really dont care what the "fans" think (you know, the people that showed up Titan blue), if David can lead the Texans foward, he is our QB, if not, then try to improve our position. The Texans dont owe the fans anything except trying to win every game and improving the team whenever possible. If they think Carr can get it done, thats their decision and I will still support the team.

I agree, they just want to win and if david can do that then thats all that matters.

real
02-23-2007, 01:31 PM
It's possible they have shopped Carr intensly with no serious takers.

If so, they are now trying to control the situation since it appears Carr will not be traded. For example, now Smith is implying they want more than a 3rd draft pick for Carr in trade. This really looks like political spin and who is going to say otherwise, no one other team is going to devulge what was really discussed.


Has there been a trade made by any team in the NFL at this point ? I'm not being cynical, I'm just asking an honest question.

I don't think there has been any trades made yet, so why would we expect something serious to have materialized in this early stage of the off-season ?

Why would any team be "serious" about trade talks for any player at this point ? It doesn't seem that any team has a definite plan laid out for their future right now. Why would the Texans be any different? Why would they just trade for Carr before they know who else will be available? That wouldn't be too smart on their part...

I still believe Carr won't be here next year, and I believe that Rick Smith is just building Carr's stock. If you act like you don't want something, people will view your possession as damaged goods and subsequently you won't get the kind of offers you want. No one really wants another mans trash.

Smith came out early and put it out there that Carr wasn't above being traded. Overall, a couple of weeks ago, you got the feeling that the orginization wasn't too enthusiastic about moving forward with Carr. What between now and then could have changed how they feel about that ? IMO, nothing. Have you changed your mind about Carr's ability since then ? You notice any of the regulars around here changing how they feel about his abilities ? Do you think that they went back and watched all the game film, and thought to them selves..."you know what, he's good afterall" ???

I don't think so. I think this is nothing more than how kids act. You don't want something until someone else wants it. You don't care about your ex-girlfriend until she starts dating again. The whole, if you like it, that means I'll like it too thing.

IMO, when the Texans came out and showed they were obviously not pleased with Carr it was just a way to get his name out there circulating in the trade winds through the leauge. And I think that now that they've gotten some initial offers they are going to play the whole...."nevermind, I think I want to keep him card"....thus in turn driving up the offers....Someone is going to offer something ridiculous for Carr thinking that they can "turn his career around"...I just wish I could be there to see Rick Smith's face lighting up as he screams...."Gotcha!!"

I stand firm that Carr won't be here next year. Maybe I'm wrong. But I doubt it.

aj.
02-23-2007, 01:35 PM
Has there been a trade made by any team in the NFL at this point ? I'm not being cynical, I'm just asking an honest question.



Scroll down to March 2.

There will be a lot of player news starting next Thursday.

http://www.nflpa.org/NewsAndEvents/ImportantDates.aspx

real
02-23-2007, 01:38 PM
Scroll down to March 2.

There will be a lot of player news starting next Thursday.

http://www.nflpa.org/NewsAndEvents/ImportantDates.aspx


Thanks :)

hollywood_texan
02-23-2007, 01:49 PM
Has there been a trade made by any team in the NFL at this point ? I'm not being cynical, I'm just asking an honest question.

I think from a pure technical perspective, you are right.

But, they probably have tested the waters enough to know if they can possibly get a deal done in the future. It is possible that they now believe dealing Carr for their assigned value isn't going to happen from what they have discussed so far, or highly unlikely. Maybe this whole process was just assign a new market value for Carr?

I think your main point is that they working out several scenarios. I think one of them signing a reduced contract with appropriate incentives for kickers so he can earn back the money because of the reduced salary.

Question to you, would you still want Carr on the roster if he signed a new contract with his base salary 1/2 of what it would have been and he could make it up in incentives?

Keep in mind, this entire problem is due to Casserly negotiating a very weak deal that allowed Carr to void his remaining three years and get that big $8 million dollar bonus. Carr didn't have to void his contract. But he did and he took the money but didn't deliver. I am sure that has been openly discussed with David Carr. You take the money, you take the responsibility.

Porky
02-23-2007, 01:54 PM
I think Smith is lying. I think he is trying to trade him, and has talked to far more than a couple of teams. I think he has to say David will be here and be the starter to try and force a trade. If teams know the Texans want to dump him, the market will be non-existent, as teams will just wait for him to be released. If they think the Texans are serious about hanging on to him, they may be willing to trade for him.

OTOH, maybe he is telling the truth. I personally cannot stand the thought of another season with Carr at QB. If he is here, and he starts, and they struggle as I expect, they can kiss me goodbye until we get a real QB. Maybe a miracle will occur, and he will turn into a decent QB, but I'm not counting on it. I'm tired of watching this dog and pony show. I will either get NFL Sunday ticket, or find something semi productive to do for 3 hours each Sunday.

real
02-23-2007, 02:02 PM
Question to you, would you still want Carr on the roster if he signed a new contract with his base salary 1/2 of what it would have been and he could make it up in incentives?



I've thought about this a lot of times....And originally I thought that I would be o.k if he just reduced his contract....

But thinking about it recently...No, I wouldn't be alright with that.


Teams that have competent QB's are competitive year in and year out pretty much despite the level of talent they have around them. Whether it be, getting into guys faces, their work ethic at practice, their unwillingness to accept failure, their constant drive for perfection of themselves and those around them, or just plain and simple their production on the field....Teams with good QB's are competitive....If you have a good QB, you go into any game atleast thinking you have a shot....A QB is the only person on offense that can directly do something that makes every other person on that side of the ball "look" better...

The QB sets the pace and the attitude for the whole team. No matter how dominant a defense you have, if you have a bad or mediocre QB you are always going to be viewed as a liability. Everyone always brings up The Ravens and Trent Dilfer....Who'd they play ? the Giants? Kerry Collins ? ....please...

Good QB's win and drive others to win and promote a winning tradition.

Bad/Mediocre QB's with good defenses don't.

I think Carr needs to be gone, and I think the F.O feels the same way.

hollywood_texan
02-23-2007, 02:02 PM
OTOH, maybe he is telling the truth. I personally cannot stand the thought of another season with Carr at QB. If he is here, and he starts, and they struggle as I expect, they can kiss me goodbye until we get a real QB. Maybe a miracle will occur, and he will turn into a decent QB, but I'm not counting on it. I'm tired of watching this dog and pony show. I will either get NFL Sunday ticket, or find something semi productive to do for 3 hours each Sunday.

If Carr struggles next year and has very similar year as 2006, he will have zero value in the open market. Maybe the biggest reason to move him now for the Texans and get value while they can because they believe it is unlikely he will deliver in 2007.

Carr's value right now is based on him salvaging his career, not being a savior for a franchise.

hollywood_texan
02-23-2007, 02:05 PM
I've thought about this a lot of times....And originally I thought that I would be o.k if he just reduced his contract....

But thinking about it recently...No, I wouldn't be alright with that.


Teams that have competent QB's are competitive year in and year out pretty much despite the level of talent they have around them. Whether it be, getting into guys faces, their work ethic at practice, their unwillingness to accept failure, their constant drive for perfection of themselves and those around them, or just plain and simple their production on the field....Teams with good QB's are competitive....If you have a good QB, you go into any game atleast thinking you have a shot....A QB is the only person on offense that can directly do something that makes every other person on that side of the ball "look" better...

The QB sets the pace and the attitude for the whole team. No matter how dominant a defense you have, if you have a bad or mediocre QB you are always going to be viewed as a liability. Everyone always brings up The Ravens and Trent Dilfer....Who'd they play ? the Giants? Kerry Collins ? ....please...

Good QB's win and drive others to win and promote a winning tradition.

Bad/Mediocre QB's with good defenses don't.

I think Carr needs to be gone, and I think the F.O feels the same way.

That is a lot of Football Sense you just posted.

I was merely looking at the situation from a financial perspective and really didn't analyze the impact on the team as you described.

Your probably right, the financial savings doesn't justify the overall impact to the offensive side of the ball and the entire team for that matter.

Thanks for opening my eyes a bit.

NEROtheZERO
02-23-2007, 02:08 PM
I don't think the situation is nearly as black and white as many are interpreting it to be. I think both Kubiak and Smith were very disappointed in Carr's play last season, which declined as the season wore on, contrary to what we had expected (or hoped) to happen. Was it because of some inherrent problems with Carr or because of the offensive line injuries? Honestly, probably a bit of both. I think the Texans' staff feels that, if necessary, Carr could suffice for a .500+ team.

Now, I take what Smith has been saying a lot more literally than most probably do. I think he and Kubiak want to improve the team, and i think that means that no one player is off limits. There is no question Smith took phone calls to see what the callers had to offer for Carr. Apparently he was less than impressed with what he was offered so he endorses Carr at the combine. This could be looked at as driving up the price for Carr or it could be looked at as standing behind his starting QB; these are not mutually exclusive and it definitely doesn't hurt Carr's value that, after an offseason of Carr rumors, his GM and head coach are firmly supporting him.

If Smith gets a just offer for Carr, he is gone. If Smith doesn't, he isn't.

So, I think think any prediction on Carr's future is merely hot air. In fact, I don't think Kubiak or Smith even know Carr's short term future. Carr's future is in the hands of those who'd like to have him (Jags? Vikings? Bucs?)

I'd also like to add that, if you believe what Smith is saying, that he fielded only a few calls for David Carr, this seriously discredits what Hulk has been saying (if it wasn't already.)

real
02-23-2007, 02:10 PM
That is a lot of Football Sense you just posted.

I was merely looking at the situation from a financial perspective and really didn't analyze the impact on the team as you described.

Your probably right, the financial savings doesn't justify the overall impact to the offensive side of the ball and the entire team for that matter.

Thanks for opening my eyes a bit.

I've pretty much said from day one that at this point I could care less about finances when it comes to Carr...

If you truly want to get better as a team and move forward in a winning direction, cut your losses, take the hit, and get better...

What your basically saying if you put finances first is...." I don't care whether we put a competitive team on the field, I just want to save money in the process"

What good is saving money if your team sucks ?

I just believe that Carr is too much of a distraction at this point and it'd be better for evryone to cut their losses and just move on and let everyone, including the fans focus on something different and more positive for a change....

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 02:16 PM
It's possible they have shopped Carr intensly with no serious takers.
If so, they are now trying to control the situation since it appears Carr will not be traded. For example, now Smith is implying they want more than a 3rd draft pick for Carr in trade. This really looks like political spin and who is going to say otherwise, no one other team is going to devulge what was really discussed.


Sometimes you gotta play hard ball and flex a little muscle. This is where your poker face comes in and you play a tough hand...

It's also possible the Man(men) are saying what they believe not building a market. Blowing your six month tirade against Carr out of the water. They like the guy. They feel he is more than just savageable. More than just servicable. He gets one more year of that contract , vs starting over with a rook this year, to prove it. Save face if you want...but if it plays out they keep him ...you guys were just plain wrong. At least to the people who make the call on these things. Kubiak is not throwing the guy under the buss...just yet. The only question which remains is are you guys man (men) enough to post it publicly ? The o-line tallent did matter in their evaluation of him. The two hundered and fifty sacks were not nothing.

real
02-23-2007, 02:17 PM
I'd also like to add that, if you believe what Smith is saying, that he fielded only a few calls for David Carr, this seriously puts into question what Hulk has been saying (if it wasn't already.)

I think Smith was lying....

I don't know about you, but if I go out, I'd much rather approach the cute girl that not a lot of people are talking to rather than the really hott, flashy one that has a flock of guys around her. The cute one not getting a lot of attention seems to be attainable, plus she's attractive in her own right.


I think everything Smith is saying at this point is to peak other teams interest.

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 02:17 PM
I've pretty much said from day one that at this point I could care less about finances when it comes to Carr...

If you truly want to get better as a team and move forward in a winning direction, cut your losses, take the hit, and get better...

What your basically saying if you put finances first is...." I don't care whether we put a competitive team on the field, I just want to save money in the process"

What good is saving money if your team sucks ?

I just believe that Carr is too much of a distraction at this point and it'd be better for evryone to cut their losses and just move on and let everyone, including the fans focus on something different and more positive for a change....


And Rick Smith just said...you are wrong.

real
02-23-2007, 02:20 PM
It's also possible the Man(men) are saying what they believe not building a market. Blowing your six month tirade against Carr out of the water. They like the guy. They feel he is more than just savageable. More than just servicable. He gets one more year of that contract , vs starting over with a rook this year, to prove it. Save face if you want...but if it plays out they keep him ...you guys were just plain wrong. At least to the people who make the call on these things. Kubiak is not throwing the guy under the buss...just yet. The only question which remains is are you guys man (men) enough to post it publicly ? The o-line tallent did matter in their evaluation of him. The two hundered and fifty sacks were not nothing.



what makes your opinion any more valid than any one elses? :loser


Are you trying to have some kind of weird message board following? Trying to convince everyone to think like you ? Should we all just bow down now and say yes master ?

State your opinion and move a long.

real
02-23-2007, 02:23 PM
And Rick Smith just said...you are wrong.

A pair of lips will tell you anything...

How could you even use the "he said it" argument less than a month after the Saban debacle...


If your only argument is "because he said so" then that's even more lame than I thought....:loser

hollywood_texan
02-23-2007, 02:26 PM
It's also possible the Man(men) are saying what they believe not building a market. Blowing your six month tirade against Carr out of the water. They like the guy. They feel he is more than just savageable. More than just servicable. He gets one more year of that contract , vs starting over with a rook this year, to prove it. Save face if you want...but if it plays out they keep him ...you guys were just plain wrong. At least to the people who make the call on these things. Kubiak is not throwing the guy under the buss...just yet. The only question which remains is are you guys man (men) enough to post it publicly ? The o-line tallent did matter in their evaluation of him. The two hundered and fifty sacks were not nothing.

It's a big risk if they keep Carr and he doesn't improve in 2007. If plays just like he did in 2006, and there is no indication from the end of the season of '06 that Carr is anywhere near turning a corner for the Texans, there will be zero interest in Carr if they want to unload him.

Essentially, the decision will be either keep him or cut him this time next year if he plays like he has the first 5 years. All the excuses will mean zip next year.

Are you asking me if I am my man enough to post something publicly? I don't know if you are asking me a question, and if you are, I don't understand your question. Please clarify if you want a response from me.

Marcus
02-23-2007, 02:31 PM
I just have a question for all of you Carr "supporters". Why is that you come crawling out from under your rocks during the offseason, but then go back into hiding during the regular season, when the Carr critics are crucifying him week after week after week?

I want Carr gone. Trade him, cut him, whatever, I don't care. I'm tired of the Carr "everything" that seems to drown out everything else about the Texans.

Both Carr and the Texans need a fresh start, a clean break, a new beginning, whatever way it should be phrased. If he stays here, it will be the same old crap that will be gone over ad nauseum.

TexansSeminole
02-23-2007, 02:36 PM
I just have a question for all of you Carr "supporters". Why is that you come crawling out from under your rocks during the offseason, but then go back into hiding during the regular season, when the Carr critics are crucifying him week after week after week?

I want Carr gone. Trade him, cut him, whatever, I don't care. I'm tired of the Carr "everything" that seems to drown out everything else about the Texans.

Both Carr and the Texans need a fresh start, a clean break, a new beginning, whatever way it should be phrased. If he stays here, it will be the same old crap that will be gone over ad nauseum.

Yes, I found a post of yours I agree on.

I'm so tired of everything Carr. If he was a decent player it would be one thing. But no...get out of Houston while some people still think you are OK.

Hulk75
02-23-2007, 02:46 PM
I still stand firm in my beliefs and I don't think there is anyway David is our starter next year...

I seriously doubt he'll be on the team, but If he is, it won't be as a starter....

I will hold you to it.

real
02-23-2007, 02:52 PM
I will hold you to it.

That's what's up.

GP
02-23-2007, 03:06 PM
My thoughts:

Smith wants Carr gone, but Kubiak says he'll sign off on it ONLY if we get this "right deal" that Smith is talking about in the Chronicle article.

I think Smith sees what we see, and I think Kubiak is attached to David and wants to try and salvage him at all costs. He was a QB, too, and he knows what it's like to have that cloud hanging over your head.

No, this is being held up because Kubiak wants to VASTLY improve the team if he is forced to trade Carr.

Smith may be the one saying all the things, but it's Kubiak who is stonewalling, IMO, and therefore Smith is doing the right thing by correctly stating what the head coach is desiring.

Regardless of whether my theory is right or not, know this: The fact that DC is even being mentioned in trade talks is proof that he's not the man anymore.

I support all Texans players. He's still a Texan, and I still hope for the best thing for all involved.

noxiousdog
02-23-2007, 03:18 PM
I've thought about this a lot of times....And originally I thought that I would be o.k if he just reduced his contract....

But thinking about it recently...No, I wouldn't be alright with that.


Teams that have competent QB's are competitive year in and year out pretty much despite the level of talent they have around them. Whether it be, getting into guys faces, their work ethic at practice, their unwillingness to accept failure, their constant drive for perfection of themselves and those around them, or just plain and simple their production on the field....Teams with good QB's are competitive....If you have a good QB, you go into any game atleast thinking you have a shot....A QB is the only person on offense that can directly do something that makes every other person on that side of the ball "look" better...


I don't know that I agree with that. Obviously the really special guys, like Farve, Montana, Manning, Marino are able to do that.

But what about Warner, Rich Gannon , Steve McNair (4) , Randall Cunningham, Bradshaw (4) or Joe Theisman? All of those won MVP's and/or Super Bowls but all had plenty of <=.500 seasons (in parenthesis).

Which isn't to say you shouldn't grab a special guy when you can, but they are really hard to come by.

threetoedpete
02-23-2007, 03:23 PM
I just have a question for all of you Carr "supporters". Why is that you come crawling out from under your rocks during the offseason, but then go back into hiding during the regular season, when the Carr critics are crucifying him week after week after week?

I want Carr gone. Trade him, cut him, whatever, I don't care. I'm tired of the Carr "everything" that seems to drown out everything else about the Texans.

Both Carr and the Texans need a fresh start, a clean break, a new beginning, whatever way it should be phrased. If he stays here, it will be the same old crap that will be gone over ad nauseum.

Well when faced with a tsunammi, you either stand or run and hide. Whether ten of you constitues a tsunammi, is a questoin open for interpretation. What isn't open for interpretation is the shear volumn, scope and visiciousness of your attacks on anyone who had an opposing veiw. After four years of that garbage, with no leadership from the mods, I choose to run this year. I tried to stay away from it . For nothing else than for the fact that the nefariuos attacks thrown on these boards was getting beyond reason. Houston fans have always loved to hate their QBs. There is a reason Warren Moon doesn't make himself availavble in Houston to the media. Or George Blanda or Archie Manning or Pete Bethard...

Maybe it will be the same old song. I don't think Bob McNair agrees with your assement(s) of David Carr. But most importantly it looks like Kubiak and Smith don't agree with you either. Perhaps the fresh start from my perspective is getting him fixed Like the coach orginally stated, and not throwing the five year investment away. Maybe I believe the spending another fifty million dollars and starting over from scratch doesn't improve the team as much as you wankers are letting on. When a kid throws a temper tantrum on the floor, you wait untill he turns blue before you intersceed. I think with these quotes today....you guys are turning blue. Just because we moved over and let you have your rants and fits of rage dosen't mean we agreed with you. No point in tring to turn what can not by it's very essence be turned. But the good news is that you get another season to rage and rail away against the machine. Gonna be fun. Pitty really they won the last two isn't it ?

Double Barrel
02-23-2007, 03:26 PM
Just think, Jim Harbaugh was the Bears QB for 7 straight years...My Dad was from Illinois so I followed the Bears a bit over the years when he was alive....gives me the same feel. edit...he didn't start for the full 7, but I'm just comparing the same scintillating TD production and mediocre overall results. It won't shock me to see Carr start here again.

Now your just trying to give me something to look forward to. :winky:

It's possible they have shopped Carr intensly with no serious takers.


I still believe Carr won't be here next year, and I believe that Rick Smith is just building Carr's stock. If you act like you don't want something, people will view your possession as damaged goods and subsequently you won't get the kind of offers you want. No one really wants another mans trash.

I think Smith sees what we see, and I think Kubiak is attached to David and wants to try and salvage him at all costs. He was a QB, too, and he knows what it's like to have that cloud hanging over your head.

As far as speculation goes, all three of you have done great jobs of presenting your perspectives and giving the reader a clear understanding of what is possible. Only time will tell who is on the mark, but in the meantime, keep up the good work.

leachmtb
02-23-2007, 03:37 PM
I just have a question for all of you Carr "supporters". Why is that you come crawling out from under your rocks during the offseason, but then go back into hiding during the regular season, when the Carr critics are crucifying him week after week after week?

I want Carr gone. Trade him, cut him, whatever, I don't care. I'm tired of the Carr "everything" that seems to drown out everything else about the Texans.

Both Carr and the Texans need a fresh start, a clean break, a new beginning, whatever way it should be phrased. If he stays here, it will be the same old crap that will be gone over ad nauseum.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but don't you think that part of the reason that he gets talked about over "everything else about the Texans" is because the fans only tend to talk about him. Columnists and journalists aren't stupid. They are going to talk about the things that get the fans riled up. David Carr is that guy. The Mario Williams pick was that pick. Not very many people talk about Demeco Ryans, because who really disagrees that he's awesome.

If you're sick of all the Carr talk, then stop being a part of it. (I don't mean that condescendingly). But, even after he leaves (if he leaves), do you not think that he will still dominate the boards? I am pretty sure that he will.

If he succeeds elsewhere all of the Carr supporters will trash all of the Carr haters. Then the Carr haters will say that they thought he'd succeed elsewhere all along, and shut up. Then the Carr supporters will get angry that the haters aren't fessing up. And so on and so on. The same exact so on and so on will happen if he goes somewhere else and sucks. The haters will say, see I told you so. Then the supporters will say, but he didn't go to a team that had a good O-line and a great running back. Then the haters will say not every good QB had a great O-line and running back.

Face it. The Carr talk will be around for quite sometime. And as long as the fans are talking about it, the reporters will write about it.

I personally don't really care what happens with Carr. I think that he is a good guy, and I think that he works harder than people give him credit for. But, with all of the pressure that he has on his back right now, he is not going to come out of this unchanged. With his talent, he is either going to have things finally click and come through and be really good, or he will fall and squander all of the talent away. People don't come out of these situations unchanged. I hope that he comes out for the better.

Double Barrel
02-23-2007, 06:06 PM
But, even after he leaves (if he leaves), do you not think that he will still dominate the boards? I am pretty sure that he will.

Maybe the NFL section of the forum. It won't be in The Bull Pen, tho' (unless it's the week we are playing the team he's on). :howdy:

Heath Shuler
02-23-2007, 06:21 PM
I think this is the most telling sentence in the article:

Since that time, though, the calls have quieted down. Smith said Carr could be had if the right trade came up, but the market for Carr hasn't developed.

New_Texans
02-23-2007, 07:14 PM
I just read the article and seriously hope he is wrong.

I really do not want David back in a Texans uniform next year. The fans just will not back him. People have soured on him so bad it is time to go in a new direction. Unless David can lead us to a Super Bowl while curing cancer in his free time, the fans will eat him alive this season.

I hope David will have a great future in another city.


please, if the texans go 8-8 or 9-7 and David plays well the fans will be happy with carr.




sheesh, bandwagoners.

Nighthawk
02-23-2007, 08:26 PM
Ask the Bears' fans what they think of Rex Grossman. It doesn't matter if the team wins or not, even if they go to the Super Bowl or not. If the fans don't like the QB, they will make their feelings known.

I've said it before, and I will keep saying it. Carr is screwed. He's worn out his welcome. If the Texans happen to start winning, it won't change anything.

I repeat. What do the Bears' fans think of Rex Grossman?:hmmm:

What does ANYBODY think of Grossman?

UNDERQUALIFIED.

Ibar_Harry
02-23-2007, 11:49 PM
I don't know that I agree with that. Obviously the really special guys, like Farve, Montana, Manning, Marino are able to do that.

But what about Warner, Rich Gannon , Steve McNair (4) , Randall Cunningham, Bradshaw (4) or Joe Theisman? All of those won MVP's and/or Super Bowls but all had plenty of <=.500 seasons (in parenthesis).

Which isn't to say you shouldn't grab a special guy when you can, but they are really hard to come by.


Yes, Gannon was the untouchable until teams figured out how to get to him. Then the pressure go to him and he was very ordinary as a QB at best.

Heath Shuler
02-24-2007, 12:01 AM
please, if the texans go 8-8 or 9-7 and David plays well the fans will be happy with carr.




sheesh, bandwagoners.

If the Texans go 9&7 and Carr plays well, I will help build the freakin monument for him. And bandwagoner would be the last word I would use to describe myself.

TexansTrueFan
02-24-2007, 12:17 AM
If the Texans go 9&7 and Carr plays well, I will help build the freakin monument for him. And bandwagoner would be the last word I would use to describe myself.

all he's saying is when we win like 04 everyone wants to keep carr, but when we lose carr needs to go. Its just how fans are, they love you if your good and hate you if your not !

cuppacoffee
02-24-2007, 12:22 AM
10 threads on this post by xtru.. all how I hate Carr. You have made a living sing this song. After 3,000 post don't you think we know you a firm, but shakie believer that you are a ABC kinda guy. :shades:

I wonder if this quote looks familiar to xtra?

"what makes your opinion any more valid than any one elses?

Are you trying to have some kind of weird message board following? Trying to convince everyone to think like you ? Should we all just bow down now and say yes master ?

State your opinion and move a long."

Good advice xtra. Try it.

:coffee:

The Pencil Neck
02-24-2007, 04:14 PM
If he comes back in 07 and the team starts winning, he and the fans will be fine


It all depends on HOW we win.

Remember the Baltimore Ravens or the Buccaneers. Guy leads them to a Super Bowl and they ditch him.

The Pencil Neck
02-24-2007, 04:39 PM
please, if the texans go 8-8 or 9-7 and David plays well the fans will be happy with carr.




sheesh, bandwagoners.

Personally, I think it's about production. If Carr plays well, most fans will be happy with Carr. We can go 2-14 but if Carr plays well and the rest of the team sucks, then I think most people can see that and won't blame that on Carr. If we go 13-3 and go to the playoffs but David continues to play bad, people are going to continue to call for his head. Just like Grossman, Dilfer, and Brad Johnson.

I don't think people are calling for Carr to leave because we finished 2-14 and 6-10 in consecutive years, at least I'm not. I think it all boils down to playing well. Show me something and I'll stick by you; if you show me nothing and start getting worse, I've got to ask for an improvement one way or the other.

The Pencil Neck
02-24-2007, 04:41 PM
Its just how fans are, they love you if your good and hate you if your not !

Well... DUH? Why should someone want you on the team if you're playing bad? I mean, anyone who's not a relative or financially dependent on you.

HoustonFrog
02-24-2007, 04:55 PM
Personally, I think it's about production. If Carr plays well, most fans will be happy with Carr. We can go 2-14 but if Carr plays well and the rest of the team sucks, then I think most people can see that and won't blame that on Carr. If we go 13-3 and go to the playoffs but David continues to play bad, people are going to continue to call for his head. Just like Grossman, Dilfer, and Brad Johnson.

I don't think people are calling for Carr to leave because we finished 2-14 and 6-10 in consecutive years, at least I'm not. I think it all boils down to playing well. Show me something and I'll stick by you; if you show me nothing and start getting worse, I've got to ask for an improvement one way or the other.

Nice post Pencil. It is one thing to lose and show improvement but it is another all together when you lose and at the same time you stop showing signs of growing as a QB. Carr showed he could grow his first couple of years and then he regressed and now I'm not sure if he will ever get the basics of playing QB. It isn't coaching changes or systems either...just the basics of getting rid of the ball, etc.

MrMeToo
02-25-2007, 02:19 PM
please, if the texans go 8-8 or 9-7 and David plays well the fans will be happy with carr.



sheesh, bandwagoners.

That's a big IF...

TexansSeminole
02-25-2007, 02:52 PM
Personally, I think it's about production. If Carr plays well, most fans will be happy with Carr. We can go 2-14 but if Carr plays well and the rest of the team sucks, then I think most people can see that and won't blame that on Carr. If we go 13-3 and go to the playoffs but David continues to play bad, people are going to continue to call for his head. Just like Grossman, Dilfer, and Brad Johnson.

I don't think people are calling for Carr to leave because we finished 2-14 and 6-10 in consecutive years, at least I'm not. I think it all boils down to playing well. Show me something and I'll stick by you; if you show me nothing and start getting worse, I've got to ask for an improvement one way or the other.

Agreed. I think most of our fans are knowledgable enough to know what the problems are. Even if our problems are complements like OL and QB.

texanfan2002114
02-25-2007, 02:55 PM
That's a big IF...

How is that a big if??? People forget that david did have a 7-9 record a couple of years ago. David will be the QB for this team next year. The team is going to address the oline and RB situation and then David will show why the Texans kept him.

Texans Pride
02-25-2007, 03:23 PM
How is that a big if??? People forget that david did have a 7-9 record a couple of years ago. David will be the QB for this team next year. The team is going to address the oline and RB situation and then David will show why the Texans kept him.

Steve, you just say this because you and David are best friends. . .you go ice skating together and the galleria.

You and your man crush!!!

Hey, did you get my pm?

Dime
02-25-2007, 04:25 PM
please, if the texans go 8-8 or 9-7 and David plays well the fans will be happy with carr.




sheesh, bandwagoners.


Rofl... Grossman played on a team he went to the superbowl on and they are questioning him. What makes you think we, the fans, wont still question him if the team goes 8-8 or 9-7. You need to rethink that statement.

texanfan2002114
02-25-2007, 05:02 PM
Rofl... Grossman played on a team he went to the superbowl on and they are questioning him. What makes you think we, the fans, wont still question him if the team goes 8-8 or 9-7. You need to rethink that statement.

Because nobody in Chicago ever liked grossman. David was loved by this city and once loved, he can be loved again. All this city wants is a winner and right I feel like ice skating with my best friend!!:friends:

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 06:20 PM
Because nobody in Chicago ever liked grossman. David was loved by this city and once loved, he can be loved again. All this city wants is a winner and right I feel like ice skating with my best friend!!:friends:

Nope. Too much damage. Time to cut the cord.

TwinSisters
02-25-2007, 06:24 PM
Nope. Too much damage. Time to cut the cord.

well I guess you could say if he made 5 Super Bowl runs for the next 5 years it would be alright.

I think the city has made peace with Gifford Nielson. For the most part anyway.

HoustonFrog
02-25-2007, 06:29 PM
well I guess you could say if he made 5 Super Bowl runs for the next 5 years it would be alright.

I think the city has made peace with Gifford Nielson. For the most part anyway.

LOL..ok, then I'd give it to him. It is just the one part of the story that people forget. Last year they waited for him to fail. I'm not going MClain on anyone but last years draft with ALL the QBs, not just VY, happened, it is affected how people thought of what we had. The shadow will always be there. Maybe both can prevail but not together. It is a good hope.

Heath Shuler
02-25-2007, 09:23 PM
all he's saying is when we win like 04 everyone wants to keep carr, but when we lose carr needs to go. Its just how fans are, they love you if your good and hate you if your not !

You canít argue with that.

Mr. B
02-25-2007, 09:35 PM
Well as long as McLaim is drumming it up for his man crush the Carr issue will get no rest. I haven't listened to sports radio or posted much in the past months and its still going on. Heck I turned on 610 the other day and McLame is on there with his same old song and dance about how the Texans have to trade Carr because of the embarresment of VY last season. Carr can no longer play in the shadow of VY which will always be over Houston.

My goodness why doesn't the man just move to Tennesse and maybe the Chron can hire a good unbiased reporter who isn't trying to sell his movie script.

B

BSofA04
02-25-2007, 10:51 PM
Well as long as McLaim is drumming it up for his man crush the Carr issue will get no rest. I haven't listened to sports radio or posted much in the past months and its still going on. Heck I turned on 610 the other day and McLame is on there with his same old song and dance about how the Texans have to trade Carr because of the embarresment of VY last season. Carr can no longer play in the shadow of VY which will always be over Houston.

My goodness why doesn't the man just move to Tennesse and maybe the Chron can hire a good unbiased reporter who isn't trying to sell his movie script.

B

I feel the same way, we need to tell John to take his lips off VY's ass. I'm tired of reading about the Cowboys and Titans in the Chron.