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Hulk75
02-21-2007, 10:09 PM
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............Lets keep in mind that he has not played with some of the best the NFL has to offer, Unlike Phillip Rivers who has had everything a young QB could want and more. I came across some pretty interesting stats. The running game was lifeless and the defense was suspect. I think we can all agree that he has not had the best of things. He has had 5 QB coaches, 4 Offensive coordinators, he has had 7 Left Tackles and not one has stayed healthy, pretty scary thing if you dont trust the guy thats suppossed to have your back, how comfortable.

Lets look at some numbers. Carr completed 68% of his passes, first in the NFL. He also tied a NFL record 22 completions in a row. In 6 games in the AFC South he completed 69.8%. In 8 home games he completed 71.9%. Also in 8 home games his QB rating was 94.6. In 6 Division games his QB rating was 97.1. Carr had only 5 games were his QB rating was less then 86. Against the Super Bowl Champs, in 2 games Carrs QB rating was 126.4 with 4 tds and 0 ints and a strike at the end to set up the game winning FG. And the Texans QBed by David Carr was the last team to beat the Colts. He also had a 4th Q QB rating of 104.2 for the season, 2nd best in the NFL. Carr also was 3rd in the NFL in rushing for QBs. And he had the 6th fewest ints in the NFL, these are a few reasons why 15 teams have called the Texans to get a hold of your son-brother-husband.

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg

TEXANRED
02-21-2007, 10:13 PM
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg

Hulk, if you loved your brother and wanted him to be successful then you would not want him to go to the Raiders. I cringe at the thought.

Oakland would finish what Houston started.

RTP2110
02-21-2007, 10:21 PM
Just one question for ya Hulk, does David even WANT to remain with the Texans?

Hookem Horns
02-21-2007, 10:24 PM
You guys need to go to Philly. Those fans and media are a lot more patient.

stingray
02-21-2007, 10:31 PM
I think David would be a great fit with the Bears, Vikings, or Jaguars. That's about it.

BleedTheBurntOrange
02-21-2007, 10:35 PM
I think he gets a raw deal as well. I think all the years of getting pounded into the ground makes him feel pressure way too early and he gets anxious and makes bad decisions.

Trust me he's not the worst starter in the league i rather him than Jake "Flip The Bird "Plummer. If he was in the right situation i think he could flourish but i feel it probably wont be us.

Grid
02-21-2007, 10:36 PM
Thanks for sharing that Hulk.

I am in the "get Carr out of here" camp.. but ive always tried to make sure than when I am advocating for his relocation, that I always point out 3 things.

1) That Carr is a great guy, with a great personality. I have nothing against him and respect him for the type of person he is, and has remained to be under this pressure.

2) That I dont think it is a lack of ability, but a lack of results and trust that is behind Carr needing to go to another team. I just think that we have been a losing team for too long under Carr, and that is turning into our team's image. We need change.

3) That I think Carr could go to another team and be very successful. I think Carr needs a change of scenery as much as the Texans need a different face at QB. I actually EXPECT to see Carr succeed elsewhere, and had already planned to make a post once he was traded, explaining that even though I agree with the move, I want to make it clear that I think Carr will be a great QB for someone, and that I think he would never have been able to reach that level with us.


My reasoning behind trading Carr is not that he is a bad QB, its that he is a QB with bad habits. He got those bad habits from playing under a poor coaching staff (Capers) that didnt know how to protect him. As long as Carr is here, I think it is going to stunt his growth, and the Texans growth. We need someone at QB that is steady and calm.. we need a leader that the rest of the offense can trust. Carr, after 5 years of losing, cant do that for us (imo). While Carr, he needs to go to a team that is established, and can provide him with some comfort and a fresh start where he doesnt have a black cloud hanging over his head. Hes not gonna be "the guy who may be a bust, who cannot quit making mistakes".. hes gonna be "the guy that came from a team that never used him right, and who has a huge amount of potential".

The fans will be supporting him again, the team will have faith in him.. and I think it could bring Carr a new level of confidence, and maybe that will be enough to drag him out of this rut, and get him to the next level.


Anyway.. I like Carr.. and I like the Carr family. I hate that Carr had to spend his first years in the league getting hammered under an inept coaching staff. And I hope there wont be any bad blood between the Carr's and the Houston fans. Sure there are some bad eggs..but there are alot of passionate supporters as well.

profan
02-21-2007, 10:37 PM
I think david should get a fresh start somewhere. His time has run out here in houston and that's not the fault of david. This organization never game him a chance and while it's not all his fault, he is the face of the franchise. I remember in the early to mid 80's when the oilers were drafting lineman at the top of the draft. They had ads something along the line of a solid foundation and had all these top pics on billboards. Success soon followed and two of those lineman are in the hall of fame. The texans never built the foundation needed for success and david suffered from this mistake. That being said, he is getting paid really well and i can't feel sorry for someone making that kind of money. I will not trash him, but he is a big man making tons of money. He will be fine and so will the texans.

Tailgate
02-21-2007, 10:39 PM
Well said Grid.

afcman
02-21-2007, 10:42 PM
I think it would be best for both sides, Carr and the Texans, for Carr to go. Mainly for Carr though. I think he needs a new start with some time to clear his head. The guys mentally beat up. I tip my hat to him for staying around like he has. I would have lost it a LONG time ago. I probably would've told the coach, "look you either get me a line that can block or I'm calling a running play every down." I really do wish him the best.

Texan Asylum
02-21-2007, 10:46 PM
Well said Grid.
I second that...

Well stated Grid.

NFLforher
02-21-2007, 10:46 PM
:highfive:


This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg

Wharton
02-21-2007, 10:47 PM
Just one question for ya Hulk, does David even WANT to remain with the Texans?That’s a legitimate question. If anyone knows how David feels on this subject, it you.

The Texans are at least 2 years away from being any good. Particularly on the line.

David has to knows he's going to get hammered some more by the opposing team, the media, and the fans.

TEXANRED
02-21-2007, 10:56 PM
That’s a legitimate question. If anyone knows how David feels on this subject, it you.

The Texans are at least 2 years away from being any good. Particularly on the line.

David has to knows he's going to get hammered some more by the opposing team, the media, and the fans.

The silence from Hulk on this question is defining. He does not answer that particular question.

I would have to speculate no. If it were a yes then it would not be a big deal to answer. Now if its a no, and it got out, that would be another story.

hollywood_texan
02-21-2007, 11:11 PM
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg

Your brother is or was, or whatever, paid millions of dollars by the Houston Texans.

No one is supposed to give him respect or anything else. He suppose to win games. If he needed all this help to be successful, then he never should have been drafted by the Texans. What else was going to happen as an expansion team?

I understand your perspective and you are sticking up for your brother, but this board is not intended for the players and/or their famalies to stick their heads in a expect special treatment. This is like the fans locker room, if you will. The fans aren't allowed in the players locker room, and probably there should be something similiar here.

If Carr is traded or moves along somewhere else, we probably won't hear from you if one of two things happens:

1. Carr has a fantastic season and/or game;
2. Carr is the starting QB for a team that beats the Texans.

Most of the people on this board are going to be here a lot longer than David Carr will be QB for the Texans or you being a fan of the Texans. So, expecting special treatment is a bit much.

From everything I have read and seen of your brother, he is stand up guy. We have exchanged e-mails, and you also seem like a stand up guy.

But, most these criticisms of your brother is nothing personal. And it seems like you take it as so. As I said earlier, you are expecting people to have the appreciation of your brother when we have never met him or even said one word to him.

I have paid 5 years of season tickets out of my hard earned income. If I want to complain about David Carr or any other part of the organization (hmmm.... Bob McNair), then I will. By the way, if Carr is traded, someone else is going into the frying pan just like your brother and will be treated the same way. It's just how it works...

I wish you and your brother the best whatever happens. Actually, I would like nothing better than Carr staying a Texan and becoming successful and proving all the critics wrong, even me.

Ole Miss Texan
02-21-2007, 11:16 PM
good posts both hulk and grid.

Hulk I think you make a great arguement for the drafting of Levi Brown or Joe Thomas somehow...in the 1st.

Scottyboy
02-21-2007, 11:18 PM
HULK man im sorry dude, but your brother just couldnt get it together. Like mentioned above this is a "what have u done for me lately" league. All biz, yes some fans take losses very painfully, just venting. Im one of them.Hulk bottem line, your brother should have rose above all the BS and rederick and made some NFL type plays. All about producing W's ! Just hope for the love of god he doesnt end up in oakland, ouch! :bubble: Good luck to you and your family though. Tell dave I said Thanks............... for nothin!!:ok:

Texasian
02-21-2007, 11:18 PM
That's it! Why is it, when DC is criticized, his brother is quick to attack! But when Hulk75 is upset, we have to be sympathetic and not offend?!
Listen Hulk75, DC is a public figure. Criticism (justified or not) comes with the territory of fame! He knows that, and so should you!
This is a forum! You have your opinions and so do I and others.

mexican_texan
02-21-2007, 11:22 PM
I have seen nothing from Carr that screams out potential, all I have seen and heard is excuses. He doesn't have great talent, but he doesn't create much, either.

thunderkyss
02-21-2007, 11:24 PM
Hulk75.... you're right. If he was my brother, I'd defend him to the end.

But he's not.

Funny thing though. I don't even want him gone... seriously, I don't. But I most definitely don't want him to start either.

Now as his brother, I can see how you'd think that would be a demotion. If that were my brother, or my Son, my Best friend, whatever. I'd want him on the bench, until the Texans can prove they fixed the line.

If they can't fix the line, but can find a QB who can produce with a less than perfect line, then hey..... good for us.

Bad for DAvid, because then he'll have to go find a new home somewhere else.

So that is the danger you'd face with that decision. But if you feel that David can't produce behind that line.... why do you want him behind that line?? If he thinks he can produce, then he needs to. Bottom line.

I don't blame everything on David. I don't blame any loss on David, or any one player for that matter. I blae most of the failures of this season on Gary Kubiak... sometimes, I don't understand what he was thinking.

In every game, he made some decisions that cost us the game. Of course he made some that kept us in games, but that's neither here nor there. Just so you know, I hold Kubiak more responsible for our losses than Carr, & I blame Kubiak for David's pitiful season.

DarkNinja
02-21-2007, 11:29 PM
I think david should get a fresh start somewhere. His time has run out here in houston and that's not the fault of david. This organization never game him a chance and while it's not all his fault, he is the face of the franchise. I remember in the early to mid 80's when the oilers were drafting lineman at the top of the draft. They had ads something along the line of a solid foundation and had all these top pics on billboards. Success soon followed and two of those lineman are in the hall of fame. The texans never built the foundation needed for success and david suffered from this mistake. That being said, he is getting paid really well and i can't feel sorry for someone making that kind of money. I will not trash him, but he is a big man making tons of money. He will be fine and so will the texans.

I totally agree with this guy.:ok: But I'm one of many that is tired of the EXCUSES everyone is putting out on DC. He plays like its high school football in Cali! NOOO more excuses. He is not getting the job done. I don't care what his stats are, there are better stats out there in Chicago than his. He gets paid more than Jenna Jameson to lay on his back and the NFL is still laughing about it.:secret: We need a change at QB and it should have started years ago.:pigfly:

BattleRedToro
02-21-2007, 11:29 PM
Your brother is or was, or whatever, paid millions of dollars by the Houston Texans.

No one is supposed to give him respect or anything else. He suppose to win games. If he needed all this help to be successful, then he never should have been drafted by the Texans. What else was going to happen as an expansion team?

I understand your perspective and you are sticking up for your brother, but this board is not intended for the players and/or their famalies to stick their heads in a expect special treatment. This is like the fans locker room, if you will. The fans aren't allowed in the players locker room, and probably there should be something similiar here.

If Carr is traded or moves along somewhere else, we probably won't hear from you if one of two things happens:

1. Carr has a fantastic season and/or game;
2. Carr is the starting QB for a team that beats the Texans.

Most of the people on this board are going to be here a lot longer than David Carr will be QB for the Texans or you being a fan of the Texans. So, expecting special treatment is a bit much.

From everything I have read and seen of your brother, he is stand up guy. We have exchanged e-mails, and you also seem like a stand up guy.

But, most these criticisms of your brother is nothing personal. And it seems like you take it as so. As I said earlier, you are expecting people to have the appreciation of your brother when we have never met him or even said one word to him.

I have paid 5 years of season tickets out of my hard earned income. If I want to complain about David Carr or any other part of the organization (hmmm.... Bob McNair), then I will. By the way, if Carr is traded, someone else is going into the frying pan just like your brother and will be treated the same way. It's just how it works...

I wish you and your brother the best whatever happens. Actually, I would like nothing better than Carr staying a Texan and becoming successful and proving all the critics wrong, even me.

It borders on criminal insanity to expect any QB to be successful behind as terrible an offensive line as the Texans have had. Until the Texans fix the O-line, you could clone Steve Young and put him behind that line and all you would end up with is a QB with a concussion.

By the way Hulk75, did David ever suffer a concussion during the 5 years of being pummelled by opposing defensive players? And, if so did he continue playing with it without telling anyone? I wouldn't doubt it because he is one tough QB.

thunderkyss
02-21-2007, 11:32 PM
Actually, I would like nothing better than Carr staying a Texan and becoming successful and proving all the critics wrong, even me.

It's not even about wins or losses, or anything like that. I'd have been happy, if the guy who stuck his neck on the line was in his corner today.

But that guy, seems to me, has turned his back on him.

I could be reading it all wrong, but until I hear Kubiak say he's looking forward to working with David in '07, that's the way I'm going to take it.

blockhead83
02-21-2007, 11:34 PM
I agree with everyone that Carr has been nothing less than stellar on a personal note in his time with the Texans. He's been through some really rough times, but has managed to maintain an optimistic outlook, as well as avoided calling out the team management through some periods where he was obviously getting a raw deal. I hope to see him become successful somewhere but I really don't think it will be here.

He still has all of the athletic attributes you look for in a stud QB, and he still has a good head on his shoulders, so I'm not surprised that's he's generating some interest, though I am skeptical as to how many of those 15 teams are seriously considering him as starter material.

That said, I have a hard time seeing DC go somewhere else and all of a sudden putting up noticeably better numbers/performances. He could go to a team with a solid OL, a good run game, and a defense that'll keep the ball in his hands and rack up alot of wins and a couple more touchdown passes, but I just don't see him undergoing some type of metamorphosis as a player.

One of my biggest qualms with Carr is that after 5 years of watching the guy, I'm convinced that he's a player who can run a play well with some consistency, but has difficulty "making" a play. You teach him the call, the play, the reads. He'll hike it, he'll look at his reads and then he'll throw/dump off/get sacked. He won't: evade pressure to give his guys time to get open; pump fake a defender; look off the safeties; improv with his receivers when everything's covered up. In short, our offense sputters unless Kubiak manages to keep the defense off-balance for an entire drive. If the play isn't there, David hasn't been able to become a creator during his time in the NFL. He's analogous to the running back who's good for 2 or 3 yards and a cloud of dust each time he touches the ball, but he's not going to bust a 20+ yarder on you. Carr's great at consistently doing the short stuff, but defenses are content to let him have at it because only when the planets properly align will you be able to sustain a drive that way until you hit pay dirt.

Anyways, like I said Carr's a great guy, and in the right circumstances he could help some team out there who needs a game managing QB a great deal.

P.S. In 5 years I don't think he's learned how to throw the ball over the middle. It's alot harder to keep the defense on their heels when you only use 50% of the field.

New_Texans
02-21-2007, 11:38 PM
Jake Plummer is a mistake guys!! KEEP CARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!



WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!

You monday morning qbs!!


Mr. McNair please keep Carr!! I get a horrible feeling about Jake Plummer coming here..please keep Carr..


The Vince Young butt kissers dont know football if it hit them in the face. They are the butts on those ESPN commercials...proof; they honestly believe that Jake Plummer is going to do better than David Carr.

Why cant Carr get another year to show what he has? I honestly believe that he has something to prove to this Championshipless (football) city/ Bandwagon city...

BattleRedToro
02-21-2007, 11:39 PM
If they can't fix the line, but can find a QB who can produce with a less than perfect line, then hey..... good for us.

I have seen this phrasing before and I don't like it because it implies that David Carr needs a perfect line to perform well, and that really is jumping to conclusions. The line he has played behind has been one of, if not the, worst O-line's in the history of the NFL and yet he has still statistically outperformed everyone's darling VY who by the way plays behind a better line than David Carr. All David Carr, or any other QB for that matter, needs is an average O-line.

The Pencil Neck
02-21-2007, 11:49 PM
Jake Plummer is a mistake guys!! KEEP CARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!



WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!

You monday morning qbs!!


Mr. McNair please keep Carr!! I get a horrible feeling about Jake Plummer coming here..please keep Carr..


The Vince Young butt kissers dont know football if it hit them in the face. They are the butts on those ESPN commercials...proof; they honestly believe that Jake Plummer is going to do better than David Carr.

Why cant Carr get another year to show what he has? I honestly believe that he has something to prove to this Championshipless (football) city/ Bandwagon city...

Dude, do you SERIOUSLY think anyone is listening to us or gives a rat's !@# what we think? We're just fans. Fans that love our team and want it to win. And we all have wildly different opinions on what needs to be done for us to win. And all our opinions have about the same weight as... well... vacuum.

And, yes, a lot of us think that Plummer is an upgrade from Carr but some of us don't. Many of us think that Carr is the next Jim Everett, a QB with a ton of potential who took too many hits and couldn't get it done any more. But obviously there are at least 20-30 people posting on this MB that think that Carr can still pull it together and be a great QB given the right tools or one more chance or whatever.

For me, last year was my "last chance" year for him. I supported him up until last season and if I had seen some sort of improvement over the year, I'd still be supporting him. I didn't so I'm not.

If Carr is going to go or stay depends on Kubiak, Smith, and McNair and whether they think Carr will be able to perform and whether they can get something for him that will allow us to be a better team in the future. They're not Monday Morning QB's and their's are the most important opinions.

HoustonFrog
02-21-2007, 11:54 PM
I'm not even sure what to say here..........

I've admittedly been a person that starting about a year and a half ago wanted Carr gone. It NEVER has been personal. Football isn't about being personal. It is about winning and doing what is best for your team. Just as players need to learn to win, so do the fans. People need to realize that the NFL isn't fair and that most QBs drafted, playing, etc wouldn't be in the league without some kind of talent. There have been a ton of guys who have fallen out of the collective NFL consciousness that have had a strong arm, that can make practice thows with a pocket, etc. The true test, bad or good team is what they do gametime and can you see a future in them. 5 years have passed...

Carr has failed, not in that he didn't take a hit or is taking the blame for being beat up. But he failed in continuing to improve despite the beatings. He failed in learning the basics. Everyone here says trust the coaches, etc and many coaches now, including the ones we are now trusting don't see the things that need to be seen. In the long run you want both parties, if they split, to succeed. But sometimes the nicest, strongest armed guys aren't always the best players. People should learn that a teams chmistry is more than coach speak and to me this move has been a long time coming. It weighs heavily on everyone involved. The burden needs to be lifted for all.

As for the Plummer debate. Despite what the Texans have done and his rep, the guy took one of the worst franchises in history, the Cards and won a playof game. He has won under Kubiak. These are things we have not seen. He will not be our savior but will be our step out of despair and into respectability while we groom another. Not only that but we may be upgrading in other areas at the same time. I'm sorry but we have been waiting and I see a light.

Good luck to all.

Nawzer
02-21-2007, 11:54 PM
I'm not one of those people looking to Jake Plummer to rescue us. I don't think he'll be that much better than Carr. The only thing Plummer does well than Carr is throw that deep ball more frequently. But other than that there isn't much. As for Carr, I've been a supporter of his, but ever since that first Tennessee game this previous season I've been frustrated with him. I'm no football expert but even I can tell that his mechanics are screwed up and that he has no presence in the pocket. He makes too many mistakes and after a certain point if he's going to be the franchise qb he has to play like one regardless of the o-line situation. Even when DC had a good protection he made horrendous plays game after game. But even after all that said I would love to see DC be the guy rather than someone else who leads us to the playoffs. He's the no.1 pick in the history of our franchise and it would be awesome to see him lead this team to the playoffs. But all I ask from the Texans this offseason is that they bring some serious competition at that qb position this offseason. I don't if that means giving Rosenfels more opportunities or drafting a qb high. Whatever it is I want to see the Texans do something to push Carr to perform better.

New_Texans
02-21-2007, 11:55 PM
Dude, do you SERIOUSLY think anyone is listening to us or gives a rat's !@# what we think? We're just fans. Fans that love our team and want it to win. And we all have wildly different opinions on what needs to be done for us to win. And all our opinions have about the same weight as... well... vacuum.

And, yes, a lot of us think that Plummer is an upgrade from Carr but some of us don't. Many of us think that Carr is the next Jim Everett, a QB with a ton of potential who took too many hits and couldn't get it done any more. But obviously there are at least 20-30 people posting on this MB that think that Carr can still pull it together and be a great QB given the right tools or one more chance or whatever.

For me, last year was my "last chance" year for him. I supported him up until last season and if I had seen some sort of improvement over the year, I'd still be supporting him. I didn't so I'm not.

If Carr is going to go or stay depends on Kubiak, Smith, and McNair and whether they think Carr will be able to perform and whether they can get something for him that will allow us to be a better team in the future. They're not Monday Morning QB's and their's are the most important opinions.

Yes it was called Vince "Bandwagon" Young Syndrone. It caused all of Houstons media to turn on the Texans organization as a whole. Most of the blame was aimmed at the QB of course.

Texasian
02-22-2007, 12:03 AM
Yes it was called Vince "Bandwagon" Young Syndrone. It caused all of Houstons media to turn on the Texans organization as a whole. Most of the blame was aimmed at the QB of course.

No, most of the blame was put on ownership/management's
decision-making! And they deserved it (at the time)!

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 12:04 AM
I'm not one of those people looking to Jake Plummer to rescue us. I don't think he'll be that much better than Carr. The only thing Plummer does well than Carr is throw that deep ball more frequently. But other than that there isn't much. As for Carr, I've been a supporter of his, but ever since that first Tennessee game this previous season I've been frustrated with him. I'm no football expert but even I can tell that his mechanics are screwed up and that he has no presence in the pocket. He makes too many mistakes and after a certain point if he's going to be the franchise qb he has to play like one regardless of the o-line situation. Even when DC had a good protection he made horrendous plays game after game. But even after all that said I would love to see DC be the guy rather than someone else who leads us to the playoffs. He's the no.1 pick in the history of our franchise and it would be awesome to see him lead this team to the playoffs. But all I ask from the Texans this offseason is that they bring some serious competition at that qb position this offseason. I don't if that means giving Rosenfels more opportunities or drafting a qb high. Whatever it is I want to see the Texans do something to push Carr to perform better.

David use to throw the deep ball all the time and it was a very pretty and accurate one at that. I dont believe the organization has given him the stability offensively to want him gone so badly. For instance, Peyton Manning credits his success to having the same offensive coach for most of his years. Peyton knows his offense like you know your favorite scene in a movie. David hasnt had that opportunity at all. Also, the reason Gary Kubiak came to Houston was to change that...he even said it wasnt going to take a year for that to happen. How can you guys already want David gone? Especially, after it seemed like for the second half of the season the Texans adapted a whole new offense of dump passes and the three step drop senario. The Texans never did bootlegs...and why you ask? Horrible running game..but thats Carr's fault too i assume. Gary lied to us, if he honestly didnt think he could fix Carr then he should have Drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Now we may be stuck with a journeyman QB who was benched for Jay Cutler.

TEXANS84
02-22-2007, 12:05 AM
how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again.

David gets all the credit in the world on that part, which is...a bum deal.

On other message boards topics arise like "Who's the toughest player in the NFL?"

Ray Lewis?
Brian Urlacher?

Nope, I always give credit to David because no matter how many beatings he took, he always got back up. I will always respect him for that.

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2007, 12:20 AM
Yes it was called Vince "Bandwagon" Young Syndrone. It caused all of Houstons media to turn on the Texans organization as a whole. Most of the blame was aimmed at the QB of course.

What are you talking about?

Like quite a few of the Texan's fans on this MB, I'm not in Houston. I have no idea what the Houston media is saying and wouldn't care even if I was there. I never wanted Vince Young in a Texan's uniform and never expected to see him in one. So I don't care that we didn't draft him... although I was kinda ticked that the Titans beat us like a red-headed stepchild and DC seemed to fold like a deck of cards in the first game.

Before this season started, I wrote down exactly what I needed to see from Carr for me think he should continue as the Texans' QB and he didn't do the things I needed him to do. I defended him in this MB and defended that he should get this last year to show what he could do. He got the chance and didn't show us enough.

Nawzer
02-22-2007, 12:21 AM
David use to throw the deep ball all the time and it was a very pretty and accurate one at that. I dont believe the organization has given him the stability offensively to want him gone so badly. For instance, Peyton Manning credits his success to having the same offensive coach for most of his years. Peyton knows his offense like you know your favorite scene in a movie. David hasnt had that opportunity at all. Also, the reason Gary Kubiak came to Houston was to change that...he even said it wasnt going to take a year for that to happen. How can you guys already want David gone? Especially, after it seemed like for the second half of the season the Texans adapted a whole new offense of dump passes and the three step drop senario. The Texans never did bootlegs...and why you ask? Horrible running game..but thats Carr's fault too i assume. Gary lied to us, if he honestly didnt think he could fix Carr then he should have Drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Now we may be stuck with a journeyman QB who was benched for Jay Cutler.

No doubt that the Texans clearly don't have the talent in the offensive side of the ball compared to the Colts, Chargers, Bengals, etc. I will also concede the fact that learning the Kubiak/Denver style offense takes time but it does not excuse DC's poor play and decision making this past season. Just look at the Oakland and New England games. He was absolutely horrible. Even against Cleveland he didn't have a great game but the important thing is that we won so ultimately I will give DC some credit there. QB's get all the blame and all the glory but THAT is the nature of the position. It's not fair, and I think DC has been and always will be a standup guy. I too am not looking forward to a journeyman qb unless he somehow magically turns this team around singlehandedly. I've said this before that how can you expect Plummer to play better on our team when he got beat out by a rookie on a Denver team that had serious Superbowl aspirations? Clearly Denver and the Texans are not on the same level in terms of talent so I just don't see how Plummer will help us. Anyway, I just want to see some real competition next year at the qb position.

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 12:23 AM
No doubt that the Texans clearly don't have the talent in the offensive side of the ball compared to the Colts, Chargers, Bengals, etc. I will also concede the fact that learning the Kubiak/Denver style offense takes time but it does not excuse DC's poor play and decision making this past season. Just look at the Oakland and New England games. He was absolutely horrible. Even against Cleveland he didn't have a great game but the important thing is that we won so ultimately I will give DC some credit there. QB's get all the blame and all the glory but THAT is the nature of the position. It's not fair and I think DC has been and always will be a standup guy. I too am not looking forward to a journeyman qb unless he somehow magically turns this team around singlehandedly. I've said this before that how can you expect Plummer to play better on our team when he got beat out by a rookie on a Denver team that has Superbowl aspirations? Clearly Denver and the Texans are not on the same level in terms of talent so I just don't see how Plummer will help us. Anyway, I just want to see some real competition next year at the qb position.

Thats what I dont understand, why cant we keep Carr and have Plummer push him in Training Camp?

Nawzer
02-22-2007, 12:25 AM
It will cost too much to keep Carr and Plummer. I don't know the exact numbers or what Plummer's salary is like but I don't think that's really an option. There's someone here who surely knows what the salary implications would be if we had both those guys on the team.

NFLforher
02-22-2007, 12:27 AM
Thats what I dont understand, why cant we keep Carr and have Plummer push him in Training Camp?




$$$$$$$$.

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 12:28 AM
What are you talking about?

Like quite a few of the Texan's fans on this MB, I'm not in Houston. I have no idea what the Houston media is saying and wouldn't care even if I was there. I never wanted Vince Young in a Texan's uniform and never expected to see him in one. So I don't care that we didn't draft him... although I was kinda ticked that the Titans beat us like a red-headed stepchild and DC seemed to fold like a deck of cards in the first game.

Before this season started, I wrote down exactly what I needed to see from Carr for me think he should continue as the Texans' QB and he didn't do the things I needed him to do. I defended him in this MB and defended that he should get this last year to show what he could do. He got the chance and didn't show us enough.

He got his chance with a crap line (again) and fullbacks fumbling in games that the Texans were on the verge to winning. The Texans were close to 9-7 with a Inconsistent David Carr (who was in the 1st year of a supposedly complex offense). The Buffalo game was suppose to be a win along with the two games Jameel Cook fumbled the ball in the end to lose it. Too bad our defense has so many holes in it eh? They were at times unable to stop teams from scoring on them at crucial times.

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 12:29 AM
$$$$$$$$.

..then why waste an investment on Jake Plummer?

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2007, 12:32 AM
David use to throw the deep ball all the time and it was a very pretty and accurate one at that. I dont believe the organization has given him the stability offensively to want him gone so badly. For instance, Peyton Manning credits his success to having the same offensive coach for most of his years. Peyton knows his offense like you know your favorite scene in a movie. David hasnt had that opportunity at all. Also, the reason Gary Kubiak came to Houston was to change that...he even said it wasnt going to take a year for that to happen. How can you guys already want David gone? Especially, after it seemed like for the second half of the season the Texans adapted a whole new offense of dump passes and the three step drop senario. The Texans never did bootlegs...and why you ask? Horrible running game..but thats Carr's fault too i assume. Gary lied to us, if he honestly didnt think he could fix Carr then he should have Drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Now we may be stuck with a journeyman QB who was benched for Jay Cutler.

Where to start... where to start...

David had the same OC for the first 3 years and the first few games into his 4th year.

David USED to throw the deep ball. I don't think he can anymore. Now when he throws deep, it's a heave and a rainbow. I think he injured his shoulder a couple of years ago and I don't think it healed right.

The running game and bad defense excuses don't hold water. We were getting sufficient yards from the running game for the most part and our defense was playing fairly well the last half of the season. The last two games are excellent examples. Our running game was working and our defense was doing it's job and DC looked bad.

But like you said, over the last half of the season David's production dropped off. He started taking the dump offs instead of looking further down the field. That wasn't because of the plays being run but because of the decisions that DC was making. It's exactly that drop in production starting with the first Titans game that soured me on David.

And I'm sure Kubiak thought he could fix David. From the news bits we've heard, David makes the right reads and makes the right throws in practice and then when the game starts, he starts screwing up. He doesn't do in the games what he does in practice. And I think that's because he took so many hits early in his career that it's in his head. And I don't think that's something he can recover from.

If he had improved over the season, I'd be hoping for him to get this next year. But he got worse as the season went on.

NFLforher
02-22-2007, 12:36 AM
..then why waste an investment on Jake Plummer?

I agree. Why?

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 12:39 AM
Where to start... where to start...

David had the same OC for the first 3 years and the first few games into his 4th year.

David USED to throw the deep ball. I don't think he can anymore. Now when he throws deep, it's a heave and a rainbow. I think he injured his shoulder a couple of years ago and I don't think it healed right.

The running game and bad defense excuses don't hold water. We were getting sufficient yards from the running game for the most part and our defense was playing fairly well the last half of the season. The last two games are excellent examples. Our running game was working and our defense was doing it's job and DC looked bad.

But like you said, over the last half of the season David's production dropped off. He started taking the dump offs instead of looking further down the field. That wasn't because of the plays being run but because of the decisions that DC was making. It's exactly that drop in production starting with the first Titans game that soured me on David.

And I'm sure Kubiak thought he could fix David. From the news bits we've heard, David makes the right reads and makes the right throws in practice and then when the game starts, he starts screwing up. He doesn't do in the games what he does in practice. And I think that's because he took so many hits early in his career that it's in his head. And I don't think that's something he can recover from.

If he had improved over the season, I'd be hoping for him to get this next year. But he got worse as the season went on.

That was when Ron Danye came in and played well, which was not for most of the season. The Texans run game was non-existent many games, and when they ran well the Texans won the games. This is why i dont understand the Texans reasoning for trading Carr. Im not expecting him to become John Elway and lead the team but he can play well with a run game. So, if he can when games by managing the teams offense--like he did for the last few games of the season--whats the point of bringing Jake Plummer in when he is going to be asked to do pretty much the same thing?

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2007, 12:43 AM
He got his chance with a crap line (again) and fullbacks fumbling in games that the Texans were on the verge to winning. The Texans were close to 9-7 with a Inconsistent David Carr (who was in the 1st year of a supposedly complex offense). The Buffalo game was suppose to be a win along with the two games Jameel Cook fumbled the ball in the end to lose it. Too bad our defense has so many holes in it eh? They were at times unable to stop teams from scoring on them at crucial times.

In the Buffalo game, Carr ties a record for consecutive completions but can't generate points. On a third down in the 4th quarter, he just needed one more completion to break the record AND to win the game... and he threw behind his receiver incomplete. Yes, the defense SHOULD have stopped the Bills at that point and won the game for us but that doesn't change the fact that DC had the opportunity to win the game and he didn't step up.

Our defense, as bad as it is, stepped up in several games. We held the Giants to 14 points. We slowed down the Colts. They scored a TD against the Browns that pretty much ended that game; especially since they held the Browns to 6 points. Our D scored one of the TD's against the Bills that kept us in that game.

Our sucky defense and running game beat the Raiders. Carr had a net -5 yards throwing.

From the halfway point in the season, we only got blown out once. And a big part of that was Carr's 4 interceptions creating a short field for the Patriots. Other than that, our defense was keeping us in games.

hollywood_texan
02-22-2007, 12:46 AM
That was when Ron Danye came in and played well, which was not for most of the season. The Texans run game was non-existent many games, and when they ran well the Texans won the games. This is why i dont understand the Texans reasoning for trading Carr. Im not expecting him to become John Elway and lead the team but he can play well with a run game. So, if he can when games by managing the teams offense--like he did for the last few games of the season--whats the point of bringing Jake Plummer in when he is going to be asked to do pretty much the same thing?

Just because Carr is traded doesn't mean Plummer will become the QB for the Texans.

I don't understand why you keep making that connection. Both are independent decisions.

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2007, 12:55 AM
That was when Ron Danye came in and played well, which was not for most of the season. The Texans run game was non-existent many games, and when they ran well the Texans won the games. This is why i dont understand the Texans reasoning for trading Carr. Im not expecting him to become John Elway and lead the team but he can play well with a run game. So, if he can when games by managing the teams offense--like he did for the last few games of the season--whats the point of bringing Jake Plummer in when he is going to be asked to do pretty much the same thing?


The running game won the Raiders game, the Colts game, and the Brown's game. We got 188 yards against the Bills which was why we were in that game.

In the games where we had a good running game, Carr didn't play well. (Except for the Bills game, and then he didn't step up when we needed him.)

In the games where we didn't have a good running game, Carr didn't play well.

Hmmm...

IF Kubiak/Smith trade Carr it's because they think they can get more production out of the pick that they trade him for than they're getting from him. If Kubiak/Smith get Plummer (which they may or may not), it will be because they think they can get more production out of him than Carr.

TwinSisters
02-22-2007, 12:59 AM
David USED to throw the deep ball. I don't think he can anymore. Now when he throws deep, it's a heave and a rainbow. I think he injured his shoulder a couple of years ago and I don't think it healed right.

But like you said, over the last half of the season David's production dropped off. He started taking the dump offs instead of looking further down the field. That wasn't because of the plays being run but because of the decisions that DC was making. It's exactly that drop in production starting with the first Titans game that soured me on David.

Dave had 8 20+ yard strikes in SEP. Even if he had kept that up into DEC, that would have still left him with 32 20+ strikes.

Rookie Leinart has 35 in only 11 starts with a crappy line ( although better WRs ). 35 deep passes in his rookie year bests 4 of 5 in Carr's entire career.

I don't think the injury had much to do with it, if you are talking about the year he had to sit out a few games. The season right after that was his peak at 3500 yards and nearly 50 20+ yard passes.

Texans_Chick
02-22-2007, 01:00 AM
I appreciate Hulk providing this viewpoint. It is refreshing.

Personally, I believe as far as QB changes fixing W-Ls, the Texans are closer to the QB changes that happened in Detroit, Miami, Oakland versus let's say Brees in New Orleans. That, of course, like most things here is just rank speculation. Not enough data to say. People like to think if there is a QB change, all the line problems, running back problems, receiver issues go away.

In the past, I have referred to this phenomenon as David Carr fatigue. That no matter how awful the rest of the team looks, people want to pin everything on DC. If you look at John McClain's blog during the Jets game, he says that the press box was wondering why DC wasn't benched. (Partly because Rosenfels hand was done busted among other reasons--he does go on to say that other stuff sucked along with the QB play). link (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/11/26/texans-fans-suffering-from-david-carr-fatigue/)

In the Jets game, Lundy and Gado combined for 15 yards in 11 attempts. This stat blew my mind. 11 for 15 freaking yards. That isn't ever supposed to happen. EVER EVER EVER! I wish I could blot it from my brain.

Yet, if you listened to talk radio at the time, it was all DC.

I hope that whatever happens works to the benefit of all--staying or going. I can see the arguments each way, and whatever happens, I hope it doesn't result in something more ruinous.

Thanks for the interesting post Hulk. Don't let the haters and baiters get you down.

kiwitexansfan
02-22-2007, 01:10 AM
I think that Carr is still going to have some great years in the NFL.

I personally would like to see them with the Texans because I really like him as a person (from what you hear about him) and wouldn't follow him so much on another team.

I hope Carr goes to a contender if he leaves and not to another losing situation with a porous line and shaky coaching/management situation.

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2007, 01:24 AM
Dave had 8 20+ yard strikes in SEP. Even if he had kept that up into DEC, that would have still left him with 32 20+ strikes.

Rookie Leinart has 35 in only 11 starts with a crappy line ( although better WRs ). 35 deep passes in his rookie year bests 4 of 5 in Carr's entire career.

I don't think the injury had much to do with it, if you are talking about the year he had to sit out a few games. The season right after that was his peak at 3500 yards and nearly 50 20+ yard passes.

Are those throws that are 20+ yards or completions that are 20+ yards? It would be interesting to see a chart of where his passes were completed vs. other QB's.

I could be misremembering the injury but I seem to remember a game late in 2004 where David went down on his shoulder funky. Something wants to think it was an indoor game... maybe Indy. IIRC, he left the field holding his shoulder but came back out the next series like nothing was wrong. I've had multiple partial tears of my rotator cuff (from powerlifting) and when I saw him go down, I was writhing on the floor in sympathy because my RC would have snapped like an old guitar string on that hit.

Since that time (if it even happened), I don't think I've seen the same sort of confidence or velocity in his deeper throws.

And that's why I think he might have an RC problem. No real proof or evidence but that's never stopped me before.

SamuraiSword
02-22-2007, 01:27 AM
You guys need to go to Philly. Those fans and media are a lot more patient.

uhmmmmmm the same philedelphia who boo their players when they do bad? You know the philedelphia phillies their fans boo their players alot.

The Pencil Neck
02-22-2007, 01:29 AM
uhmmmmmm the same philedelphia who boo their players when they do bad? You know the philedelphia phillies their fans boo their players alot.

Yeah, I think he forgot the :sarcasm: thingamajig.

SamuraiSword
02-22-2007, 01:31 AM
Thanks for sharing that Hulk.

I am in the "get Carr out of here" camp.. but ive always tried to make sure than when I am advocating for his relocation, that I always point out 3 things.

1) That Carr is a great guy, with a great personality. I have nothing against him and respect him for the type of person he is, and has remained to be under this pressure.

2) That I dont think it is a lack of ability, but a lack of results and trust that is behind Carr needing to go to another team. I just think that we have been a losing team for too long under Carr, and that is turning into our team's image. We need change.

3) That I think Carr could go to another team and be very successful. I think Carr needs a change of scenery as much as the Texans need a different face at QB. I actually EXPECT to see Carr succeed elsewhere, and had already planned to make a post once he was traded, explaining that even though I agree with the move, I want to make it clear that I think Carr will be a great QB for someone, and that I think he would never have been able to reach that level with us.


My reasoning behind trading Carr is not that he is a bad QB, its that he is a QB with bad habits. He got those bad habits from playing under a poor coaching staff (Capers) that didnt know how to protect him. As long as Carr is here, I think it is going to stunt his growth, and the Texans growth. We need someone at QB that is steady and calm.. we need a leader that the rest of the offense can trust. Carr, after 5 years of losing, cant do that for us (imo). While Carr, he needs to go to a team that is established, and can provide him with some comfort and a fresh start where he doesnt have a black cloud hanging over his head. Hes not gonna be "the guy who may be a bust, who cannot quit making mistakes".. hes gonna be "the guy that came from a team that never used him right, and who has a huge amount of potential".

The fans will be supporting him again, the team will have faith in him.. and I think it could bring Carr a new level of confidence, and maybe that will be enough to drag him out of this rut, and get him to the next level.


Anyway.. I like Carr.. and I like the Carr family. I hate that Carr had to spend his first years in the league getting hammered under an inept coaching staff. And I hope there wont be any bad blood between the Carr's and the Houston fans. Sure there are some bad eggs..but there are alot of passionate supporters as well.

here here!! :toast2:

I am just tired of losing and want a change of QB. I hope Carr succeeds in the NFL.

TwinSisters
02-22-2007, 01:42 AM
Are those throws that are 20+ yards or completions that are 20+ yards? It would be interesting to see a chart of where his passes were completed vs. other QB's.

It's just completions. I don't know if there is a stat kept for actual throwing distance... but then again there should be, because YAC is recorded. Will have to look around more.

It's still a bit low in general, even if you cannot isolate out the throwing distance from the WR's YAC.

Normally you see around 40's for average, 50's for a good year, and into the 60's for the QBs on their elite years ( Brad Johnson, Brees, Manning, Culpepper, Farve, etc. )

Guys in the 30's Eli Manning, J.P. Loseman, Frye, Smith, Vick, etc.

Young had 33 on 13 starts.
---

okay, on the shoulder injury. It certainly destroyed enough other careers. I don't know the specifics on his injury compared to fellas like Brees or McMahon.

SamuraiSword
02-22-2007, 01:45 AM
That was when Ron Danye came in and played well, which was not for most of the season. The Texans run game was non-existent many games, and when they ran well the Texans won the games. This is why i dont understand the Texans reasoning for trading Carr. Im not expecting him to become John Elway and lead the team but he can play well with a run game. So, if he can when games by managing the teams offense--like he did for the last few games of the season--whats the point of bringing Jake Plummer in when he is going to be asked to do pretty much the same thing?

Dude you are acting like you are losing a relative or something.....shheeeeshhh Players move on in the league every now and then. My favorite player was Chris Chandler. I was estatic he was a Houston Oiler and he broke some records while he was here in Houston. But when he left it was a sad day. Things like this always happen and please just get over it.........

MojoX
02-22-2007, 01:45 AM
Well, whatever happens with Carr, I will be following him closely. The way I see it, the kid hasn't gotten a fair shake yet. People complain about the short passes against cover-2s. Well...while its tough to say he has never had the talent around him when a guy like Gaffney can suddenly look like a legit WR once he got with a consistent QB, tt'd be nice if those passes were being caught by a guy like Adrian Peterson or Reggie Bush... or anybody that will make the opposing team drop one of those safties out of deep coverage. I also understand from Kubiak's remarks that Carr, while sticking with what he was coached to do, misses a lot of opportunities make big plays.

Anyway, Carr's story should be interesting. He is still young enough to turn it around and honestly, not saying this is how it will happen, but how old was Steve Young when he was traded to the 49ers? 26 or so? And while he showed flashes as a back up, the Steve Young folks came to know and love didn't emerge until he was 29 years old. Maybe like Young, who suffered behind a horrible O-line and bad organization, Carr just needs a fresh start.

As far as I know, Carr is a good guy and I don't wish ill upon him. I hope he does realize his potential wherever he ends up. I'd like that team to be the Texans, but it appears Carr is done with being here and the team is done with him. At the end of the day, I think the fault lies more with the Texans for throwing the kid to the wolves too soon with little to no backup than with Carr for becoming shell shocked.

Ibar_Harry
02-22-2007, 01:56 AM
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg

I have taken a lot of heat supporting David over these many years, because I have said Houston has been like a bad marriage for David. The fact is the team has never moulded itself around David's strengths. The team from day 1 was to be a running team and David strength is not handing off the ball. It is amazing how many times we have heard we have to strengthen the offensive line, yet we have yet to see any kind of domination from the O-line.

The fact is we went to some form of zone blocking scheme which is designed to aid a team with good running backs. It is not a scheme designed to protect the QB. The story continues over and over again.

In addition I feel the coming out of Vince Young destroyed any hope David had of remaining in Houston. The front office badly mismanaged that event as far as the Texans and David were concerned. They simply put David in a no win situation and that remains the situation to this day.

I'm sorry, but when it was all said and done I don't think Kubiak was any better than the HC we had in so many ways. The number of wins is simply within the range of what could have been probably expected. So much of what was happening on the field was what Kubiak wanted and everyone blames David for it.

I have always pointed to the games where David was allowed to call his own plays and what we saw. David became a leader in those games and his team mates began to act like a team rather than a bunch of individuals. Payton is what he is because he has been given the opportunity and right to lead the team. David really has never had that opportunity for a total game. Its the old control issue. A coach was never ment to be the QB, but many feel that's the way they want it.

The 1st league game David played showed what he could do and teams realized immediately that they couldn't allow David to have time or he would beat them. Starting with the 2nd game with SD they began the relentless pursuit of the QB. The Texans were never smart enough to realize what they had to do to protect the QB. To this day they continue to do the same things over and over again.

To throw down field you have to have time and receivers who can get open. AJ is not know for getting open for a whole lot of reasons. Moulds was the best we had in a lot of ways, but people don't believe so. Yes, AJ made the pro bowl, but I would trade him in an instant for a number of other receivers in the leaque. He is simply over rated. I will be roasted and toasted for that one, but I can't feel any different based on what I have seen.

Games in the NFL are based on field position and slowing gaining position over time. Our kicking game, our running game, and our defense simply did not allow for the gradual give and take required to gain an advantage. There really are few opportunities to achieve a score. We are always at a disadvantage in many of the games we play. Its sad, but that is the case.

wenskek
02-22-2007, 02:06 AM
"the snake" will guide us!:stirpot:

Nighthawk
02-22-2007, 02:48 AM
Nothing more to be said here. The original post, by Carr's supposed "brother," is a bit of pathos, support for a guy who really has not shown himself an NFL caliber QB. He may be a nice guy, a good family man, a good christian, but he may not be an NFL QB. If they trade him, and I trust they will, we will discover how many of the excuses were reasonable and valid, and how many were just more excuses. If 15 teams have called, and I don't believe that for a minute, then both David Carr and the Texans are in good shape. We should send him on his way and wish him the best. History is not going to lie about him.

swtbound07
02-22-2007, 04:55 AM
I am a fan of the houston texans. I appreciate my TEAM everytime they take the field. I understand that it takes everyone, not JUST one to win a game. However, I refuse to pay homage to David Carr simply for being a warm body who got hit a lot. I want my team to WIN. I don't want my team to continue to struggle for the sake of giving David a fair shake in Houston. I want to put the players on the field that give us the best chance of doing that. Forget David getting a fair shot, the HOUSTON TEXANS haven't been given a fair shot at having somebody quarterback the team with the pieces we have in place. I don't care that David is a nice guy. That and 50 cents can get you a coke. They don't give out annual "nice team" rings, they give out superbowl rings. If the Bengals win a championship, they aren't going to strip the team of its trophy because of character issues. The bottom line is, I feel we as a city deserve a winner, and winners don't make excuses and justify poor performance.

Look, I get that your David's brother. I understand you would back him up til the end. You'll do whatever it takes to protect his reputation, up to and including coming on this board to defend his character. But quite frankly, I don't give a damn that your his brother. I'm personally more than a little bit tired of tiptoeing through the tulips with you because we don't want to hurt your feelings and you want david treated with the utmost respect. I don't care how in the know you claim to be, and i don't think that every word that flows through your keyboard should be treated as the gospel you claim it is. A few threads ago i asked you to justify saying that 20 teams want carr as a starter, and now mysteriously in this thread the number is down to 15. I think you lie Hulk. I think you lie a lot. I think people are afraid to call you on your crap because of your family connection. I don't think you know anymore about what is going to happen than the rest of us, because if they are going to hock off david carr, he will be the last to know. The thing is Hulk, your fighting a losing battle. Your trying to sell us on a player who we have seen with our OWN EYES give us 5 years of piss poor performance. Yippee! he tries real hard.

If what you say is true, and carr is "highly respected" around the league, lets get one of those other teams to put their money where their mouth is. Let them take on the reclamation project, because frankly its painful to watch. I don't care if Carr has success or not when he leaves this team, because then he is no longer a texan and no longer my concern.

I welcome and usher in the Jake Plummer era with open arms.

Texans Horror
02-22-2007, 06:31 AM
It seems every year the Texans make a move that has the rest of the league laughing. I guess it's been a year since we didn't draft Vince Young or Reggie Bush, so it's time for the Texans to make their yearly fubar mistake.

I look forward to DC being traded. Some doofus holds up an ocho sign, then one or two writers start editorializing, and suddenly he's gone. Wow. How stalwart the Texans FO.

DC will go somewhere else where he can get a break. He will improve immediately. He will look awesome because he is one tough SOB.

Plummer will look just as lost as DC did because he won't have a line that can hold. I foresee a lot of flicked fingers in the Texans future. What a class act. And the Texans will continue to get pummelled year-in and year-out because the Texans refuse to address the line problems.

Malloy
02-22-2007, 07:13 AM
I am a fan of the houston texans. I appreciate my TEAM everytime they take the field. I understand that it takes everyone, not JUST one to win a game. However, I refuse to pay homage to David Carr simply for being a warm body who got hit a lot. I want my team to WIN. I don't want my team to continue to struggle for the sake of giving David a fair shake in Houston. I want to put the players on the field that give us the best chance of doing that. Forget David getting a fair shot, the HOUSTON TEXANS haven't been given a fair shot at having somebody quarterback the team with the pieces we have in place. I don't care that David is a nice guy. That and 50 cents can get you a coke. They don't give out annual "nice team" rings, they give out superbowl rings. If the Bengals win a championship, they aren't going to strip the team of its trophy because of character issues. The bottom line is, I feel we as a city deserve a winner, and winners don't make excuses and justify poor performance.

Look, I get that your David's brother. I understand you would back him up til the end. You'll do whatever it takes to protect his reputation, up to and including coming on this board to defend his character. But quite frankly, I don't give a damn that your his brother. I'm personally more than a little bit tired of tiptoeing through the tulips with you because we don't want to hurt your feelings and you want david treated with the utmost respect. I don't care how in the know you claim to be, and i don't think that every word that flows through your keyboard should be treated as the gospel you claim it is. A few threads ago i asked you to justify saying that 20 teams want carr as a starter, and now mysteriously in this thread the number is down to 15. I think you lie Hulk. I think you lie a lot. I think people are afraid to call you on your crap because of your family connection. I don't think you know anymore about what is going to happen than the rest of us, because if they are going to hock off david carr, he will be the last to know. The thing is Hulk, your fighting a losing battle. Your trying to sell us on a player who we have seen with our OWN EYES give us 5 years of piss poor performance. Yippee! he tries real hard.

If what you say is true, and carr is "highly respected" around the league, lets get one of those other teams to put their money where their mouth is. Let them take on the reclamation project, because frankly its painful to watch. I don't care if Carr has success or not when he leaves this team, because then he is no longer a texan and no longer my concern.

I welcome and usher in the Jake Plummer era with open arms.

I agree 100%

dirty steve
02-22-2007, 07:51 AM
Gary lied to us, if he honestly didnt think he could fix Carr then he should have Drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Now we may be stuck with a journeyman QB who was benched for Jay Cutler.
i agreed with your take until this. how did kubiak lie to us? if a guy who has had success working with QB's come in and says and can work and possibly make #8 better, i believed him. he never said anything like "DC will throw for 4000 yards, 40 tds, etc." he never said #8 would be a pro bowler or be an all pro. he gave us promise that carr might be able to make incremental change and in time be a solid manager of the offense. carr probably didnt live up to ours and most importantly Kubiak's expectations, but i give him credit for at least trying to fix something that many still think is unsalvageable.

HoustonFrog
02-22-2007, 07:51 AM
I am a fan of the houston texans. I appreciate my TEAM everytime they take the field. I understand that it takes everyone, not JUST one to win a game. However, I refuse to pay homage to David Carr simply for being a warm body who got hit a lot. I want my team to WIN. I don't want my team to continue to struggle for the sake of giving David a fair shake in Houston. I want to put the players on the field that give us the best chance of doing that. Forget David getting a fair shot, the HOUSTON TEXANS haven't been given a fair shot at having somebody quarterback the team with the pieces we have in place. I don't care that David is a nice guy. That and 50 cents can get you a coke. They don't give out annual "nice team" rings, they give out superbowl rings. If the Bengals win a championship, they aren't going to strip the team of its trophy because of character issues. The bottom line is, I feel we as a city deserve a winner, and winners don't make excuses and justify poor performance.

Look, I get that your David's brother. I understand you would back him up til the end. You'll do whatever it takes to protect his reputation, up to and including coming on this board to defend his character. But quite frankly, I don't give a damn that your his brother. I'm personally more than a little bit tired of tiptoeing through the tulips with you because we don't want to hurt your feelings and you want david treated with the utmost respect. I don't care how in the know you claim to be, and i don't think that every word that flows through your keyboard should be treated as the gospel you claim it is. A few threads ago i asked you to justify saying that 20 teams want carr as a starter, and now mysteriously in this thread the number is down to 15. I think you lie Hulk. I think you lie a lot. I think people are afraid to call you on your crap because of your family connection. I don't think you know anymore about what is going to happen than the rest of us, because if they are going to hock off david carr, he will be the last to know. The thing is Hulk, your fighting a losing battle. Your trying to sell us on a player who we have seen with our OWN EYES give us 5 years of piss poor performance. Yippee! he tries real hard.

If what you say is true, and carr is "highly respected" around the league, lets get one of those other teams to put their money where their mouth is. Let them take on the reclamation project, because frankly its painful to watch. I don't care if Carr has success or not when he leaves this team, because then he is no longer a texan and no longer my concern.

I welcome and usher in the Jake Plummer era with open arms.

Here, here.

dirty steve
02-22-2007, 08:05 AM
Look, I get that your David's brother. I understand you would back him up til the end. You'll do whatever it takes to protect his reputation, up to and including coming on this board to defend his character. But quite frankly, I don't give a damn that your his brother. I'm personally more than a little bit tired of tiptoeing through the tulips with you because we don't want to hurt your feelings and you want david treated with the utmost respect. I don't care how in the know you claim to be, and i don't think that every word thatflows through your keyboard should be treated as the gospel you claim it is. A few threads ago i asked you to justify saying that 20 teams want carr as a starter, and now mysteriously in this thread the number is down to 15. I think you lie Hulk. I think you lie a lot. I think people are afraid to call you on your crap because of your family connection. I don't think you know anymore about what is going to happen than the rest of us, because if they are going to hock off david carr, he will be the last to know. The thing is Hulk, your fighting a losing battle. Your trying to sell us on a player who we have seen with our OWN EYES give us 5 years of piss poor performance. Yippee! he tries real hard.

what are you talking about? nobody has called him on it? i guess you are the standard bearer for pointing out ills and weakness of the rest of us on this MB for not wanting to press the issue. what do you want from him on the "20 teams, 15 teams" issue? the list of every team that rick smith has called, or of every team has called reliant park? telephone transcripts?

i thought you said DC was going to be here anyway come training camp in july? why would you need justification that he is headed out of town if you are so confident he will be here anyway?

BTW--when did DC play for YOUR team the Titans?

i wish DC the best wherever he goes, and props to any relative he might have for coming in here and taking the beating or criticism that some fail to see.

thunderkyss
02-22-2007, 08:54 AM
I appreciate Hulk providing this viewpoint. It is refreshing.

Personally, I believe as far as QB changes fixing W-Ls, the Texans are closer to the QB changes that happened in Detroit, Miami, Oakland versus let's say Brees in New Orleans. That, of course, like most things here is just rank speculation. Not enough data to say. People like to think if there is a QB change, all the line problems, running back problems, receiver issues go away.

In the past, I have referred to this phenomenon as David Carr fatigue. That no matter how awful the rest of the team looks, people want to pin everything on DC. If you look at John McClain's blog during the Jets game, he says that the press box was wondering why DC wasn't benched. (Partly because Rosenfels hand was done busted among other reasons--he does go on to say that other stuff sucked along with the QB play). link (http://texans.aolsportsblog.com/2006/11/26/texans-fans-suffering-from-david-carr-fatigue/)

In the Jets game, Lundy and Gado combined for 15 yards in 11 attempts. This stat blew my mind. 11 for 15 freaking yards. That isn't ever supposed to happen. EVER EVER EVER! I wish I could blot it from my brain.

Yet, if you listened to talk radio at the time, it was all DC.

I hope that whatever happens works to the benefit of all--staying or going. I can see the arguments each way, and whatever happens, I hope it doesn't result in something more ruinous.

Thanks for the interesting post Hulk. Don't let the haters and baiters get you down.

I understand with as much attention we pay to David Carr, how someone could get the impression that we think,"it's all Carr's fault".... but I know personally, that is not the case, and when I read guys like The Pencil Neck, & Hollywood Texan(and most others), that is not the case. WE've got problems on our team, and we'll all talk about every one of them. The OL, the play calling, the RBs, the WRs.... etc...

But we are talking about the one position, that can make all those look better.
& regardless of his bad play, he's only been benched for 2 quarters in his entire career.

You mention Miami, Detroit, & Oakland as where we'd stand W-L wise with a QB change. & if that's how you feel, that's fine... I don't see that though. I see us closer to the Tennessee, Dallas situation.

Especially the Dallas situation, where the line couldn't protect, and the only one catching the ball was T.Glenn. In comes Romo, and you have a QB who can make time on his own for a play to develop, and he has no favorites. Witten starts catching Balls, Crayton starts catching balls, Terrell Owens gets involved early... & Flozelle Adams & Andre Gurode goes to the ProBowl.

I have no hard facts to back this up, but I need to start looking. In our situation in Houston, if our QB was sacked on second down, and we were in a third & long situation, we ran the ball at least 70% of the time on third down.

Any other team, would run the ball about 30% of the time.

that's a QB issue.

Any other team that gives up as many sacks as we do would run the shotgun more often. Indy runs out of the shotgun darn near 40% of the time(& they have the best OL in football). In 5 years, we can't solve our offensive line problems, and haven't included any significant shotgun formations to our offense, & the only constant in 5 years, has been the QB. I think that is a QB problem.

I will admit that our team has performed so poorly, that it is hard to get a good read on David Carr. At the same time, and in all fairness, I think we should all understand that David has performed so badly in the last 5 years that it is hard to get a read on the Houston Texans Offense.

Texans Horror
02-22-2007, 09:09 AM
15 teams that could be interested in Carr:

AFC:
Cleveland Browns
Pittsburgh Steelers
Jacksonville Jaguars
Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
New York Jets
Kansas City Chiefs
Oakland Raiders

NFC:
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Minn. Vikings
Carolina Panthers
TB Buccaneers
Philladelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins

All fifteen of these teams have had QB issues this past year. In some cases, they have older QBs (KC, Carolina). In other cases, they have questionable quarterbacks (Bills, Raiders, Bears) or don't know who their quarterback will be (TB/Philly/Miami). I could see all of these teams being interested in Carr, but I doubt they would each be willing to part with draft picks for him.

I could probably find another five teams that would be interested in Carr, but solely as a competitor/likely back-up QB.

Point is, QB is such a target position that teams believe everything can be miraculously cured with a "fix" at the QB position. (I won't say Texans are a case in point.) I am sure these same teams are looking at Plummer, Garcia, Quinn, and Russel. The big question is where would a running quarterback with a shotgun arm fit?

Texans Horror
02-22-2007, 09:12 AM
Any other team that gives up as many sacks as we do would run the shotgun more often. Indy runs out of the shotgun darn near 40% of the time(& they have the best OL in football). In 5 years, we can't solve our offensive line problems, and haven't included any significant shotgun formations to our offense, & the only constant in 5 years, has been the QB. I think that is a QB problem.

I wish the Texans would go shotgun. I think it would fix a lot of things and give David the extra second or two that the line isn't giving him.

grinch1134
02-22-2007, 09:26 AM
If Carr is gone next year and we still suck what will be our excuse. Either way we are in for a long building (not rebuilding).

GO TEXANS

Bubbajwp
02-22-2007, 09:27 AM
what are you talking about? nobody has called him on it? i guess you are the standard bearer for pointing out ills and weakness of the rest of us on this MB for not wanting to press the issue. what do you want from him on the "20 teams, 15 teams" issue? the list of every team that rick smith has called, or of every team has called reliant park? telephone transcripts?

i thought you said DC was going to be here anyway come training camp in july? why would you need justification that he is headed out of town if you are so confident he will be here anyway?

BTW--when did DC play for YOUR team the Titans?

i wish DC the best wherever he goes, and props to any relative he might have for coming in here and taking the beating or criticism that some fail to see.
I have a fe Question for you. How many people that live in houston do you think own VY jerseys. If you own a VY jersey does that mean you cant be a Texans fan. How many Vick jerseys are there in Houston. Do you think those people are not Texans fans either.

He has already explained why he was wereing a VY Titans jersey a hundred times. Why do people still call him out on it.

Bubbajwp
02-22-2007, 09:29 AM
If Carr is gone next year and we still suck what will be our excuse. Either way we are in for a long building (not rebuilding).

GO TEXANS

It was our QB's fault.

thunderkyss
02-22-2007, 09:36 AM
15 teams that could be interested in Carr:

AFC:
Cleveland Browns

I think the Browns have got a starter, & they'd take Quinn before going with Carr

Pittsburgh Steelers

Even their back up has done more than Carr

Jacksonville Jaguars

could possibly start, that's 1.

Buffalo Bills

He won't start over Losman.

Miami Dolphins

After what they've been through the last 4 years, they'd prove themselves to be dumber than the Houston Texans

New York Jets

They've got more QBs than they know what to do with already. & Carr isn't an upgrade to any of them.

Kansas City Chiefs

No way in Hell Carr starts in KC

Oakland Raiders

Why not.... what have they got to lose?? That's 2.

NFC:
Chicago Bears

I can't see how anyone could think Carr will beat out a QB who threw 22 TDs in his first year as a starter.

Detroit Lions

Nope

Minn. Vikings

Sure. That's 3

Carolina Panthers

Nope....

TB Buccaneers

I'd take Simms over Carr anyday. Simms is a gamer, & that's why he's still in TB. Gruden is looking for a better Gamer, Carr is a take what they give you kinda guy.

Philladelphia Eagles

lol..... hold on.... my side hurts.. lol

Washington Redskins

I could see it. That's 4.

It's not just wich teams are interested in David Carr....... Hulk said 20 teams wanted David to start, so start widdling down your list.

real
02-22-2007, 09:39 AM
It's nice to have a different view point on the message board. I'm glad Hulk shares all of this info with us.

Yet at the same time, I don't really feel sorry for David.

I feel sorry for sick kids, people dying of starvation, orphans, people with a life threatening illness.


Yes he has recieved harsh treatment from the fans. He may not have been given a fair shake at things, but David is a millionaire, getting paid to play football. He is living his dream. David is not the first, and he won't be the last QB to be run out of town by a football team. Hulk I understand your P.O.V, being his brother and all. I'd probably feel the same way. David has a chance to move on with his life and career, and if it really was/is the team thats holding him back then you should rejoice and be happy that he'll finally be able to go to a city that wants him, and a place where he can prove himself. I'm not at all saying that "because he's rich he shouldn't be given any sympathy"....No so don't twist my words...If David had some other traumatic even in some other area of life then I'd have sympathy in that regard. But this is his job, and it's not too shabby of one. If I don't perform well at work I suffer the consequences, and the consequences I suffer will not be relocating to a new city for a fresh start with a chance to rejuvinate my career.

No hard feelings toward David the Man/Brother/Husband/Father, but David Carr the football player has not lived up to expectation. I'm truly sorry it didn't work out, and I hope David finds success elsewhere if that is where his path leads him.

Vinny
02-22-2007, 09:51 AM
man, what drama...

I'm just glad this franchise dropped the "Emperor's New Clothing" management techniques and is treating all the players equally now. I'm sure it was hard to motivate yourself when you see a player who is not producing paid better than everyone else and pushed out to the front as the "face of the franchise" but really never had many compelling moments to make him this other than his original draft slot. I think for nearly half a decade the players have known marketing was more important than the on-field production and I personally think it was self defeating and bad for this team....so hopefully with some REAL & HONEST evaluation at QB this will usher this franchise into the playoff contending era that 80% of the rest of the NFL is in.

mganz
02-22-2007, 09:52 AM
Just one question for ya Hulk, does David even WANT to remain with the Texans?

David has said that he does want to be here. He said that he would be depressed if he left. I'm not sure who was interviewing him, maybe Mclain.

I personally think we should keep him for at least 1 more year.

yourfavoritetexan42
02-22-2007, 10:11 AM
If he wants to be here, you keep him. He has talent, and he has shown flashes of brilliance despite all the adversity. He is battle tested and has been through the thick...I want to see what he does through the thin.

kbourda
02-22-2007, 10:15 AM
I am a fan of the houston texans. I appreciate my TEAM everytime they take the field. I understand that it takes everyone, not JUST one to win a game. However, I refuse to pay homage to David Carr simply for being a warm body who got hit a lot. I want my team to WIN. I don't want my team to continue to struggle for the sake of giving David a fair shake in Houston. I want to put the players on the field that give us the best chance of doing that. Forget David getting a fair shot, the HOUSTON TEXANS haven't been given a fair shot at having somebody quarterback the team with the pieces we have in place. I don't care that David is a nice guy. That and 50 cents can get you a coke. They don't give out annual "nice team" rings, they give out superbowl rings. If the Bengals win a championship, they aren't going to strip the team of its trophy because of character issues. The bottom line is, I feel we as a city deserve a winner, and winners don't make excuses and justify poor performance.

Look, I get that your David's brother. I understand you would back him up til the end. You'll do whatever it takes to protect his reputation, up to and including coming on this board to defend his character. But quite frankly, I don't give a damn that your his brother. I'm personally more than a little bit tired of tiptoeing through the tulips with you because we don't want to hurt your feelings and you want david treated with the utmost respect. I don't care how in the know you claim to be, and i don't think that every word that flows through your keyboard should be treated as the gospel you claim it is. A few threads ago i asked you to justify saying that 20 teams want carr as a starter, and now mysteriously in this thread the number is down to 15. I think you lie Hulk. I think you lie a lot. I think people are afraid to call you on your crap because of your family connection. I don't think you know anymore about what is going to happen than the rest of us, because if they are going to hock off david carr, he will be the last to know. The thing is Hulk, your fighting a losing battle. Your trying to sell us on a player who we have seen with our OWN EYES give us 5 years of piss poor performance. Yippee! he tries real hard.

If what you say is true, and carr is "highly respected" around the league, lets get one of those other teams to put their money where their mouth is. Let them take on the reclamation project, because frankly its painful to watch. I don't care if Carr has success or not when he leaves this team, because then he is no longer a texan and no longer my concern.

I welcome and usher in the Jake Plummer era with open arms.

Wow, what a post. Does anyone on this board like Hulk75?

real
02-22-2007, 10:17 AM
Wow, what a post. Does anyone on this board like Hulk75?

I don't think there are many people here who dislike him.

GP
02-22-2007, 10:17 AM
I know everyone's been waiting for me to weigh in on this (crickets chirping in the background...).

What does it matter if DC is here or not?

Here's the only fact out of all of this: If a QB for an NFL team does not do well, and the team loses more games than it wins, or does not get into the playoffs, or does not make it out of the playoffs and into the Super Bowl, or does not win the Super Bowl when they get there, then the fans will blame the QB and they will want the QB removed.

If DC is gone, then QB "X" who replaces him will be just as much of a target for criticism, and will receive tons of punishment just as DC did.

So who cares about DC getting fairly or unfairly critiqued around here?

I'm with Vinny: "man, what drama...."

You guys would think this is a place where soccer moms hang out and whine about their baby boy not getting to play more, etc. I am so totally numb to both sides of the Carr debate by now. He stays? OK. He goes? OK. But thinking that a new face at QB is the magical solution to this team's woes is flat out ignorant if you ask me. 5 years and not a single o lineman taken in the first round...hmmmm, I'm shocked that we suck each year.

It's all relative (no pun intended) in terms of what fans expect out of their QB.

Check this out:

As a Texans fan, wouldn't you looooooooove to have Peyton as this team's QB? He's great, right? Well how many Colts fans do you think had reached the brink of emotional breakdown with Peyton NOT being able to win the big one? "Yeah, he's our QB...and he's great...but if he doesn't win the big one, then it's all for nothing..."

If DC got us to the playoffs every year, but didn't get us to the Super Bowl, he'd be a bum in fans' eyes. If DC got us to the Super Bowl and he couldn't pull off a win, he'd be a bum in fans' eyes.

It's danged if you do, and danged if you don't in our society. It's how it is.

I feel like I'm watching episodes of "That's So Raven" with all the drama around here.

Seriously, with DC gone...it just changes the title of the threads from "DC sucks" to "QB X sucks"....nothing really changes, IMO.

Maybe women are right when they compare us to stone aged cavemen. Sheesh...........

2BCF
02-22-2007, 10:19 AM
David has said that he does want to be here. He said that he would be depressed if he left. I'm not sure who was interviewing him, maybe Mclain.



His #1 reason.

BECAUSE...." he hated the hassle of moving"!!!

then he followed it with his typical bs about being a part of something great, blah, blah, blah.

kbourda
02-22-2007, 10:22 AM
His #1 reason.

BECAUSE...." he hated the hassle of moving"!!!

then he followed it with his typical bs about being a part of something great, blah, blah, blah.

Hassle of moving? Tell me that's not his #1 reason for wanting to stay? That simply cannot be true.

SESupergenius
02-22-2007, 10:24 AM
When we take away Carr I hope the sportwriters and radio talk show hosts will now see our true problems with the team. This is their last token to be taken away and hide behind, now it's time for them to truly see the light. Although so many of them flip-flop on their positions, it's going to be interesting to see what they say about our team once David is gone. Be careful what you wish for.

ledzeppelin229
02-22-2007, 10:27 AM
Hassle of moving? Tell me that's not his #1 reason for wanting to stay? That simply cannot be true.

Judging from past interviews...it sounds like something he would say. For whatever reason it doesn't really seem that far fetched.

Lucky
02-22-2007, 10:45 AM
When we take away Carr I hope the sportwriters and radio talk show hosts will now see our true problems with the team.
And I hope Santa Claus puts a Playboy centerfold model under my tree this Christmas. But, neither will happen. Once Carr leaves, there will be a new whipping boy. Plummer. Kubiak. McNair. Somebody. Until the Texans begin to win, the beatings from the media will continue.

Kaiser Toro
02-22-2007, 10:49 AM
I appreciate Hulk standing up for his brother as that is the type of guy you want in a battle every Sunday. However, in the NFL loyalty only goes so far as talent and compensation is what drives success in 53 parcels. Carr's talent did not scale in the NFL and he is compensated like it did.

Kubiak and Smith finally saw it first hand like many fans who have seen every home game live and have to pay extra to be able to watch every visiting game because of the scared player we have behind center. As a former professional in another sport I am amazed how cowardly this team is in speaking its mind and takes losing as it is just one of those things. Carr needs to go to change the culture of losing in Houston.

Will he succeed in another town? I could care less as the question all of the chicken littles need to ask themselves is whether we will succeed without him, and the answer is a resounding yes.

Loyalty to this team is what brings us to the stadium, not loyalty to an overpaid nice guy. Historically we are better when Carr is limited in the passing game to the tune of 9-2 when he has less than 20 passes. If you deny that data point you are not a Texans' fan. :texflag:

Texans_Chick
02-22-2007, 10:54 AM
Loyalty to this team is what brings us to the stadium, not loyalty to an overpaid nice guy. Historically we are better when Carr is limited in the passing game to the tune of 9-2 when he has less than 20 passes. If you deny that data point you are not a Texans' fan. :texflag:

Not meaning to be argument clinic about this, but aren't most teams pretty darn successful when they don't have to pass the ball and are able to run it at will?

Vinny
02-22-2007, 10:56 AM
Not meaning to be argument clinic about this, but aren't most teams pretty darn successful when they don't have to pass the ball and are able to run it at will?
yeah, but if that is the ONLY time you are successful you have top 10 picks in the draft every year. This is too tough a league to be one dimensional....I think we have proven that over the last half decade.

Haams
02-22-2007, 10:57 AM
What have those 15 teams been offering? No disrespect to your bro - but things haven't been so hot here, for us or him and I don't see any reason for that to change in the future so I'm ready to go in another direction. If there's really that many teams interested in him I say let's use him to plug one of those holes and I'll settle for a temporary QB who is just "mediocre" instead of "potentially great."

Kaiser Toro
02-22-2007, 11:02 AM
Not meaning to be argument clinic about this, but aren't most teams pretty darn successful when they don't have to pass the ball and are able to run it at will?

Yes, but it comes back to compensation. I am sure the architects of said plan do not pay a premium at QB to execute that blue print.

Less Carr equals better results. In a results oriented world you pay for performance. Companies that overpay key positions die a slow death.

Vinny
02-22-2007, 11:04 AM
What have those 15 teams been offering? No disrespect to your bro - but things haven't been so hot here, for us or him and I don't see any reason for that to change in the future so I'm ready to go in another direction. If there's really that many teams interested in him I say let's use him to plug one of those holes and I'll settle for a temporary QB who is just "mediocre" instead of "potentially great."
If it is true and half the league wants Carr then he will bring a #1 or #2 draft pick...but that isn't gonna happen...and it's fantasy stuff.

HJam72
02-22-2007, 11:07 AM
Let's just keep Carr, don't let him throw more than 20 attempts per game, and go 12-4 every year!!! :marionaner:


I did the math. :tease:

Lucky
02-22-2007, 11:08 AM
This just in: The Texans are undefeated when they outscore the opposition. That data point is undeniable by any fan.

Look, I liked David Carr. I also liked Dom Capers & Charley Casserly. I wished they had turned the Texans into winners. They didn't. Now, it's the next bunch of guys turn.

"As soon as David Carr leaves, the Texans will win!" Right. I see the same group of posters already staking out their positions to blame Plummer, Kubiak, and/or McNair if the Texans don't win. Maybe they will be right. I'd just like to see the QB, and team, make it past the 1st preseason loss before the next bashing session begins.

Kaiser Toro
02-22-2007, 11:09 AM
Let's just keep Carr, don't let him throw more than 20 attempts per game, and go 12-4 every year!!! :marionaner:


I did the math. :tease:

Welcome to the party, I have been predicting 12 wins for 2007 since last year.

HJam72
02-22-2007, 11:10 AM
I multiplied by 15 instead of 16, so it's probably wrong anyway. :drunk:

Texans_Chick
02-22-2007, 11:10 AM
yeah, but if that is the ONLY time you are successful you have top 10 picks in the draft every year. This is too tough a league to be one dimensional....I think we have proven that over the last half decade.

Lots of reasons for that. Insert ad naseum blah blah blah here. Some on Carr, some not so much.

When I saw that statistic, by itself as a sig, it just seemed a bit disingenous to me.

Kaiser Toro
02-22-2007, 11:15 AM
This just in: The Texans are undefeated when they outscore the opposition. That data point is undeniable by any fan.

Look, I liked David Carr. I also liked Dom Capers & Charley Casserly. I wished they had turned the Texans into winners. They didn't. Now, it's the next bunch of guys turn.

"As soon as David Carr leaves, the Texans will win!" Right. I see the same group of posters already staking out their positions to blame Plummer, Kubiak, and/or McNair if the Texans don't win. Maybe they will be right. I'd just like to see the QB, and team, make it past the 1st preseason loss before the next bashins session begins.

Nice try. McNair, Kubiak and Smith have made the right moves and this one will be the next one. Carr's contract and the perception as the face of this franchise have been the second largest obstacle to success outside of the Casserly regime.

I have railed against two things in this franchise's history Casserly and Carr. Keep worrying about fans who care about their franchise, it is alot easier than sticking your neck out for what is the right direction for the franchise.

Vinny
02-22-2007, 11:18 AM
Lots of reasons for that. Insert ad naseum blah blah blah here. Some on Carr, some not so much.

When I saw that statistic, by itself as a sig, it just seemed a bit disingenous to me.
the running game was an occasional bright spot over the years. The only time we passed well it was an aberration. A better and more consistent passing game would help out the running game, and that would in turn help out the passing game since we would be more unpredictable. It's like having only one good leg/hip. Eventually it wears out the other leg when you are always standing on it and eventually the bad leg/hip ruins the good one.....if everyone knows you struggle to complete anything longer than 7 yards it's easy to gear 11 men to stop the run.

HJam72
02-22-2007, 11:20 AM
All we need is a RB who can run over 11 guys on his way to the end-zone.

It ain't Samkon Gado.

Haams
02-22-2007, 11:32 AM
I'd managed to go a good amount of time without thinking about Carr but now...I'm tired of him and his whiny little brother. We pay him to be a leader, he says he has the potential (which after 5 years I'm sick and tired of hearing the word potential, that's for rookies not vets), and then all I hear is this chatter about not having the team around him. The very definition of a leader is that you make those around you better, not that you ride others backs. I want one person to tell me they honestly believe Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Donovan Mcnabb would have put up Carr like numbers with our offense. Those guys would have found a way to score. DD led the AFC in all purpose yards before he got hurt, but the excuse was we didn't have a line or a #2. We line up AJ and Moulds - one of the best twosomes in football - there's still excuses.

Heck, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think Carr's boneheaded decisions and timidness make our line look bad. I'm ready for those guys to get a fair chance.

And this is for hulk - stop whining, it's annoying, stupid, and has really lowered my opinion of your bro 'cause I know you share a gene pool. What really makes it worst is this detachment from reality. When you accept millions of dollars to play a game you open yourself up to criticism and if you can't handle it, well try working a real job. Carr gets paid more than surgeons to lose football games, and I do not feel bad about pointing that out. Heck, we pay him enough money that we can't afford to fix some of our problems. When has Carr stood up and said "hey, I'll take a pay cut so you can get me a lineman, or receiver, or TE..." HE'S NOT WORTH THE MONEY. Bottom line. If you pay someone as one of the best they have to perform as one of the best.

Texans_Chick
02-22-2007, 11:36 AM
the running game was an occasional bright spot over the years. The only time we passed well it was an aberration. A better and more consistent passing game would help out the running game, and that would in turn help out the passing game since we would be more unpredictable. It's like having only one good leg/hip. Eventually it wears out the other leg when you are always standing on it and eventually the bad leg/hip ruins the good one.....if everyone knows you struggle to complete anything longer than 7 yards it's easy to gear 11 men to stop the run.

Well yeah. Lots of reasons for that. Some on Carr, some not so much.

My thoughts on this sort of thing is that there is enough legitimate concerns with any player, including Carr, without exaggerating or putting all the blame on things that may not be on that player.

TexansTrueFan
02-22-2007, 11:37 AM
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg


Hmmm i like it, plus look what plummer has had to work with in denver, do you think he can come here where we have a lot less talent and perform as well as he did there ? Good post hulk.

humbleone
02-22-2007, 11:39 AM
I'd managed to go a good amount of time without thinking about Carr but now...I'm tired of him and his whiny little brother. We pay him to be a leader, he says he has the potential (which after 5 years I'm sick and tired of hearing the word potential, that's for rookies not vets), and then all I hear is this chatter about not having the team around him. The very definition of a leader is that you make those around you better, not that you ride others backs. I want one person to tell me they honestly believe Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Donovan Mcnabb would have put up Carr like numbers with our offense. Those guys would have found a way to score. DD led the AFC in all purpose yards before he got hurt, but the excuse was we didn't have a line or a #2. We line up AJ and Moulds - one of the best twosomes in football - there's still excuses.

Heck, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think Carr's boneheaded decisions and timidness make our line look bad. I'm ready for those guys to get a fair chance.

And this is for hulk - stop whining, it's annoying, stupid, and has really lowered my opinion of your bro 'cause I know you share a gene pool. What really makes it worst is this detachment from reality. When you accept millions of dollars to play a game you open yourself up to criticism and if you can't handle it, well try working a real job. Carr gets paid more than surgeons to lose football games, and I do not feel bad about pointing that out. Heck, we pay him enough money that we can't afford to fix some of our problems. When has Carr stood up and said "hey, I'll take a pay cut so you can get me a lineman, or receiver, or TE..." HE'S NOT WORTH THE MONEY. Bottom line. If you pay someone as one of the best they have to perform as one of the best.

It seems a bit off to lecture someone about whining by doing so. I am not related to the Carr family and do not know them but the post above is over the top and offensive IMO.

cuppacoffee
02-22-2007, 11:40 AM
. ......

.... Bottom line. If you pay someone as one of the best they have to perform as one of the best.

I've read this several times.

Any info on QB salaries and where Carr fits in as one of the highest (best)?

:coffee:

Lucky
02-22-2007, 11:40 AM
...it is alot easier than sticking your neck out for what is the right direction for the franchise.
I promise you that win, lose, or draw, your neck will be just fine. I went to the games when Carr was the QB. I'm going to the games when he's not. I'm pretty sure that you fall in that same category. We all have our opinion as to what the right direction is. It's the guys at the top whose opinion counts. And the players are the ones to make them look like genuises or fools. I'll be there regardless, and I'm going to give them the benefit if the doubt.

Kaiser Toro
02-22-2007, 11:44 AM
I've read this several times.

Any info on QB salaries and where Carr fits in as one of the highest (best)?

:coffee:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/default.aspx

cuppacoffee
02-22-2007, 12:07 PM
I've read this several times.

Any info on QB salaries and where Carr fits in as one of the highest (best)?

:coffee:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/default.aspx

Quarterbacks

Tom Brady, New England: $13,823,750

Michael Vick, Atlanta: $13,072,857

Carson Palmer, Cincinnati: $12,980,000

Brett Favre, Green Bay: $12,633,335

Peyton Manning, Indianapolis: $10,566,668

Donovan McNabb, Philadelphia: $8,553,911

Trent Green, Kansas City: $8,198,808

Marc Bulger, St. Louis: $7,582,000

David Carr, Houston: $7,250,000

Jake Plummer, Denver: $7,157,200

Franchise: $12,615,000

Transition: $10,182,000

Doesn't look out of line to me.

Correct me if I am wrong, but any qb in the league that is Franchised or Transitioned will automatically receive a higher salary than Carr?

If anyone has a real beach it is Atlanta's fans. Vick makes more than Farve and P Manning, and damn near as much as T Brady.

Not saying this proves anything.

:coffee:

petedy
02-22-2007, 12:26 PM
I'd managed to go a good amount of time without thinking about Carr but now...I'm tired of him and his whiny little brother. We pay him to be a leader, he says he has the potential (which after 5 years I'm sick and tired of hearing the word potential, that's for rookies not vets), and then all I hear is this chatter about not having the team around him. The very definition of a leader is that you make those around you better, not that you ride others backs. I want one person to tell me they honestly believe Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Donovan Mcnabb would have put up Carr like numbers with our offense. Those guys would have found a way to score. DD led the AFC in all purpose yards before he got hurt, but the excuse was we didn't have a line or a #2. We line up AJ and Moulds - one of the best twosomes in football - there's still excuses.

Heck, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think Carr's boneheaded decisions and timidness make our line look bad. I'm ready for those guys to get a fair chance.

And this is for hulk - stop whining, it's annoying, stupid, and has really lowered my opinion of your bro 'cause I know you share a gene pool. What really makes it worst is this detachment from reality. When you accept millions of dollars to play a game you open yourself up to criticism and if you can't handle it, well try working a real job. Carr gets paid more than surgeons to lose football games, and I do not feel bad about pointing that out. Heck, we pay him enough money that we can't afford to fix some of our problems. When has Carr stood up and said "hey, I'll take a pay cut so you can get me a lineman, or receiver, or TE..." HE'S NOT WORTH THE MONEY. Bottom line. If you pay someone as one of the best they have to perform as one of the best.
What did Dan Marino win with his time in Miami?

hollywood_texan
02-22-2007, 12:41 PM
Hulk, I really want to say something that I briefly touched on in my previous post.

Everyone here understands you perspective and your love for your brother.

But, do you understand most people on this board are Texans fans period? Regardless of who the players were, are, or will be?

From my perspective, I am 36 and grew up following the Oilers in the "Luv Ya Blue" days. After the Oilers left, I kind of didn't care because of the Buffalo debacle in the playoffs in the early 90's.

But, when the Texans came to Houston, I was so excited because I could now root my new team and actually own a piece of it through season tickets from their beginning. That passion, was there before David Carr, was and will be there regardless of what David Carr did, does, or doesn't do for the Texans.

My point is, most of these people on this board are Texan fans from the start to what hopefully will never end, regardless of what happens. Meanwhile, players come and go, and their famalies that root for the players because they are on the Texans.

I greatly appreciate your support of the Texans, but you root for the Texans because of David Carr, and we root for the Texans because they are the Texans.

I really hope you don't take this the wrong way. We have exchanged e-mails, and you seem like a cool guy. I am just merely trying to show you a different perspective as you were doing for us.

One last thing, I can't speak for anyone else, but my postings are very critical of Carr's play, yet in a public setting, I would not call out Carr (or any other player or poster on this Message Board) or say anything disrespectful. I look at this Message Board as the field of play and the whistle never blows, you go full speed all the time and if you can knock somebody's block off, you better do it because somebody else might knock yours off. Outside the Message Board, you have conduct yourself on a different level and the same rules and play do not apply.

Lastly, thanks for always putting your 2 cents and speaking your heart. I really admire that!

Vinny
02-22-2007, 12:41 PM
Well yeah. Lots of reasons for that. Some on Carr, some not so much.

My thoughts on this sort of thing is that there is enough legitimate concerns with any player, including Carr, without exaggerating or putting all the blame on things that may not be on that player.Some of us fans are just tired of the doublespeak when it comes to Carr (over the 5 years). We are sick of the excuses as to why he isn't what he was supposed to be. I'm tired of everyone vilifying other good players because they are making excuses for the one constant average performer that is the guy we are supposed to be built around. Until this current off-season the Texans never stopped spoon feeding us the tripe that David Carr is a franchise QB when we watch the games and see the play for ourselves. Just because you want a certain player to be a player to build a franchise around doesn't mean that he is because you say so....some of us are tired of hearing one thing from the Texans and watching something else when it comes to Carr. He isn't the reason the Texans are not a winning franchise but he is the cornerstone and centerpiece that has captured the imagination of the Houston football fan and frankly, style without substance doesn't play well in this town...this ain't Dallas. I've mentioned the Texans management style in the past as the "emperor's New Clothes" style of management. At least when they come out and say Carr is a part of why this thing isn't working (yeah along with the numerous other issues), I start to trust them again.

Wharton
02-22-2007, 01:04 PM
The silence from Hulk on this question is defining. He does not answer that particular question.

I would have to speculate no. If it were a yes then it would not be a big deal to answer. Now if its a no, and it got out, that would be another story.You're right his silence is defining. But then again, I have to admit the question isn't really fair. Either way he answers the question, both he and David will get bombarded on this board and on call radio.

When Hulk first came on the scene I thought he was just a fanatic from CA, but when it was recently revealed that he was David's brother, my view on him changed significantly.

I've stopped hassling Hulk so much (I still do, but not as much).

This reminds me of a story about Jeff Garcia's dad who called in to Sports Radio while Jeff was with SF 49er. The backlash was dramatic.

While it may not be a popular opinion on this board because its a public forum and all are welcome, IMO, Hulk should keep his mouth shut at least until all decisions about David are done.

real
02-22-2007, 01:08 PM
While it may not be a popular opinion on this board because its a public forum and all are welcome, IMO, Hulk should keep his mouth shut at least until all decisions about David are done.

Why?

Hulk75
02-22-2007, 01:09 PM
Some of us fans are just tired of the doublespeak when it comes to Carr (over the 5 years). We are sick of the excuses as to why he isn't what he was supposed to be. I'm tired of everyone vilifying other good players because they are making excuses for the one constant average performer that is the guy we are supposed to be built around. Until this current off-season the Texans never stopped spoon feeding us the tripe that David Carr is a franchise QB when we watch the games and see the play for ourselves. Just because you want a certain player to be a player to build a franchise around doesn't mean that he is because you say so....some of us are tired of hearing one thing from the Texans and watching something else when it comes to Carr. He isn't the reason the Texans are not a winning franchise but he is the cornerstone and centerpiece that has captured the imagination of the Houston football fan and frankly, style without substance doesn't play well in this town...this ain't Dallas. I've mentioned the Texans management style in the past as the "emperor's New Clothes" style of management. At least when they come out and say Carr is a part of why this thing isn't working (yeah along with the numerous other issues), I start to trust them again.

Have any of you ever stopped and thought what if it is not excuses and in fact is FACT. You get hurried when you have NO LINE- Fact, people say forget the run and play pass when you cant run-Fact, Good Defenses get the ball back for the Offense so they have more attempts- Fact. I mean really do I have to get in it again, I am not some guy that watched my whole life and never strapped it up, I dont pretend to know what is going on, when others around you dont pull their wieght it aint going to happen or if the guy on the other side of you is better then you, you are going to get beat-Fact. These are not freakin excusess, this is how football is played, its not played in the media when they tell you 1 guy is doing everything and he put them on his shoulders, is bull crap in a sheff salad, everyone has a part in what a person acomplishes, every guy has to do their part. Is david the greatest ever and never messed up one time, NO there are plenty balls he should not have thrown and I told him. BUT he IS not as bad as everyone plays him to be and that is what I hope people get to see either here or somewere else. Whatever happens happens and the Lord has it under controll.

aj.
02-22-2007, 01:09 PM
Buyer beware on that USA Today salary page. I found numerous issues with it in the past. No time to look at it now but it's usually a year behind and you really have to understand what goes into their numbers before taking that info and running with it.

....and Carr is part of the problem. Fact.

Vinny
02-22-2007, 01:12 PM
Have any of you ever stopped and thought what if it is not excuses and in fact is FACT. You get hurried when you have NO LINE- Fact, people say forget the run and play pass when you cant run-Fact, Good Defenses get the ball back for the Offense so they have more attempts- Fact. I mean really do I have to get in it again, I am not some guy that watched my whole life and never strapped it up, I dont pretend to know what is going on, when others around you dont pull their wieght it aint going to happen or if the guy on the other side of you is better then you, you are going to get beat-Fact. These are not freakin excusess, this is how football is played, its not played in the media when they tell you 1 guy is doing everything and he put them on his shoulders, is bull crap in a sheff salad, everyone has a part in what a person acomplishes, every guy has to do their part. Is david the greatest ever and never messed up one time, NO there are plenty balls he should not have thrown and I told him. BUT he IS not as bad as everyone plays him to be and that is what I hope people get to see either here or somewere else. Whatever happens happens and the Lord has it under controll.

hey, it's an opinion board and I've had the same observations for years. It's just now the Texans are talking about them and admitting that there are issues. Kudos to them. The Lord may have it all planned out, but I'll still give my opinion on the matter.

Blu
02-22-2007, 01:19 PM
The word on the street..........
Well the word on Houston streets are that ppl are tired of losing...
How long has it been since a Houston Football team been to the playoffs?
Yeah ... it's been too dang long.

Like that Classic Metalica Song goes.... "Turn the Page."

David is a great man, loving father, and one heck of a Christian...
But I've lost all faith in him as the Texans Qb.
:shades:

swtbound07
02-22-2007, 01:23 PM
Have any of you ever stopped and thought what if it is not excuses and in fact is FACT. You get hurried when you have NO LINE- Fact, people say forget the run and play pass when you cant run-Fact, Good Defenses get the ball back for the Offense so they have more attempts- Fact. I mean really do I have to get in it again, I am not some guy that watched my whole life and never strapped it up, I dont pretend to know what is going on, when others around you dont pull their wieght it aint going to happen or if the guy on the other side of you is better then you, you are going to get beat-Fact. These are not freakin excusess, this is how football is played, its not played in the media when they tell you 1 guy is doing everything and he put them on his shoulders, is bull crap in a sheff salad, everyone has a part in what a person acomplishes, every guy has to do their part. Is david the greatest ever and never messed up one time, NO there are plenty balls he should not have thrown and I told him. BUT he IS not as bad as everyone plays him to be and that is what I hope people get to see either here or somewere else. Whatever happens happens and the Lord has it under controll.


well then we should rest easy and be quiet cause you have the criticism covered right?

afcman
02-22-2007, 01:29 PM
When we take away Carr I hope the sportwriters and radio talk show hosts will now see our true problems with the team. This is their last token to be taken away and hide behind, now it's time for them to truly see the light. Although so many of them flip-flop on their positions, it's going to be interesting to see what they say about our team once David is gone. Be careful what you wish for.

What station are you listening to? Local? Because the national stations very rarely talk of the Texans except maybe in passing. Why? Because the Texans are boring.

I just got Sirius radio and listen to the NFL network almost non-stop, and still don't hear a lot of talk about the Texans. I'm waiting for the draft. And crossing my fingers and toes.

Double Barrel
02-22-2007, 01:30 PM
There are issues we have to separate here: the past, the present, and the future.

In The Past - i.e. beginning of career - David Carr had potential. He had his downside, as most players do, but for the most part, everyone thought he could be a solid QB with some work.

Fast forward five years + 250 sacks - The Present: due to various factors, many beyond his control, he has suffered more sacks in a five year period than any other QB in NFL history. This is not blaming him, but it is a fact that he has been conditioned to react in ways that are detrimental to being a good, solid QB. Can it be fixed with coaching and a better team around him? Who knows, and only time will tell.

The Future: the Texans are still a bad team, and are in the process of trying to build a good team, or at least a decent, competitive team. But these things take time, and consistent offensive lines do not grow on trees. This being said, can David Carr flourish and succeed under the present circumstances, considering that 2007 will probably be another year that this team tries to obtain more offensive playmakers (not to mention a solid line)?

I honestly don't know, but my gut tells me that both the team and DC would be better off going separate ways at this point. Let him go to a team with the talent around him that we've been talking about. If he can be at least a Trent Dilfer-type QB, then he'll need a lot more than the Texans can provide him in 2007.

And for the Texans, perhaps new blood and a new attitude from the QB will help elevate the rest of the offense. The fact of the matter is that this team NEEDS much better than a Trent Dilfer-type QB right now, and when factoring in the money involved and the cap hit, we have to detach our emotions and see the big picture of doing what's best for the team itself.

Meloy
02-22-2007, 01:34 PM
Well the word on Houston streets are that ppl are tired of losing...
How long has it been since a Houston Football team been to the playoffs?
Yeah ... it's been too dang long.

Like that Classic Metalica Song goes.... "Turn the Page."

David is a great man, loving father, and one heck of a Christian...
But I've lost all faith in him as the Texans Qb.
:shades:I thought "turn the page" was Bob Seeger? Did Metallica cover it? If they did cover, could we sign them to play corner?

ArlingtonTexan
02-22-2007, 01:42 PM
I thought "turn the page" was Bob Seeger? Did Metallica cover it? If they did cover, could we sign them to play corner?

Yeah, the Metaliica cover is not bad, but not in the league with the original.

Texans Horror
02-22-2007, 01:50 PM
Metallica covered it.

James is pretty tall. He could probably play ball, but we'd probably surround him with some poser band, then trade him for Bob Seger when he can't bring the noise.

afcman
02-22-2007, 01:56 PM
I thought "turn the page" was Bob Seeger?

Yeah.

OK the NFL network just talked some Texans. Whoo!!! They basically said that the coach, and more importantly, the owner, no longer have the faith in Carr to be the leader. They are looking to move on.

Meloy
02-22-2007, 01:58 PM
Metallica covered it.

James is pretty tall. He could probably play ball, but we'd probably surround him with some poser band, then trade him for Bob Seger when he can't bring the noise.No worries mate. We got the #8 pick!:stirpot:

Texanfan4ever
02-22-2007, 01:59 PM
Until you hear those words come out of Kubiaks, RIck Smith's or McNair's mouth, I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

Texian
02-22-2007, 02:00 PM
Why there is better than a 50% chance Carr will be the Texans QB next year.

1. They gave Carr $13 million in 2006.

2. Getting rid of Carr and flushing $13 million, surely they don't want to appear that stupid. Would you?

3. The tremendous number of injuries had a direct effect on the play of every position on the team. (look what happened to Carolina, preseason superbowl favorites lost their LOT and OC and it was down hill from there).

4. Serious consideration and evaluation of the strength and conditioning team needs to made due to the number of injuries. (Cleveland just fired the S&C coach due to their number of injuries)

5. They will not draft Quinn. After passing on Young, Lienart and Cutler they don't want to appear that stupid. Would you?

6. To many other areas they can upgrade before addressing QB.

afcman
02-22-2007, 02:14 PM
surely they don't want to appear that stupid.

Well.......................

They passed on Bush, Young, Lienart and Cutler so..........

sorry.....couldn't resist. :winky:

Spled
02-22-2007, 02:17 PM
Hulk's right. Ger Carr an o-line and he's the guy for the next 10 years. If not then we have to spend 3 years developing a new guy.

hollywood_texan
02-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Why there is better than a 50% chance Carr will be the Texans QB next year.

1. They gave Carr $13 million in 2006.

2. Getting rid of Carr and flushing $13 million, surely they don't want to appear that stupid. Would you?



I think you are close to something. I think all this talk is really to establish the correct market value for Carr's services.

My gut tells me Carr stays a Texan.

Blu
02-22-2007, 02:31 PM
Hulk's right. Ger Carr an o-line and he's the guy for the next 10 years. If not then we have to spend 3 years developing a new guy.
Well... it'll take that long for Carr to get reprogrammed and confident enough to get the job done. After all that being said, I still think he'll cringe every time he feels Freeny coming at him. Just like a flinching beat down dog at the SPCA.

I like my chances with <insert anyone other than Carr> as the starter and a young stud riding the pine.

SamuraiSword
02-22-2007, 02:33 PM
Wow, what a post. Does anyone on this board like Hulk75?

he is alright in my book. I now understand why he defends David.

Wharton
02-22-2007, 02:37 PM
Why?If information on this message board gets out to the public and published, it could weaken David's negotiating position. By defining David's feelings towards the Texans or at least making it look like David wants out of Houston, if/when David is traded the negotiator will use it against him. Basically, if David wants out of Houston bad enough, he'll take a cut in pay.

Sound crazy, but I negotiate real estate contract for a living and I'll use anything to my advantage while the deal is in play. Something tells me it’s no different in the NFL when there's a lot more money on the line.

Ole Miss Texan
02-22-2007, 02:50 PM
Heck, we pay him enough money that we can't afford to fix some of our problems. When has Carr stood up and said "hey, I'll take a pay cut so you can get me a lineman, or receiver, or TE..." HE'S NOT WORTH THE MONEY. Bottom line. If you pay someone as one of the best they have to perform as one of the best.

I understand your dissappointment but in no way is that Carr's fault. I understand you...a lot of people upset because he's underperforming.

But nobody can blame Carr for making the money he does. It's not his fault per say. I'd say look at his agent and our Front Office. They are the ones that came up with his salary to an agreement on both sides. If you want to blame carr for getting paid too much, blame mcnair...not carr.

I don't know what you do for a living but for example...say your a banker that get's paid $150,000 a year. You have your loan portfolio but can definitly be making the bank more money...with more loans and better loans. But your boss likes you and think you have potential and one of the reasons you don't have the amount of loans you could...isn't all your fault but partly. Now say he decides to give you a raise to $300,000 per year. Are you going to tell him, no sir i underperformed so i shouldn't get this. or are you going to say...please give $150,000 of my new salary to someone else so they can come in and help the bank.

Probably not. Your boss gave you the 300 grand and you're going to keep it because that was the agreement.....i'm not going to blame you for being overpayed.

Hulk75
02-22-2007, 02:59 PM
well then we should rest easy and be quiet cause you have the criticism covered right?

Yeaaaaaa?.:um:

Hulk75
02-22-2007, 03:04 PM
I'd managed to go a good amount of time without thinking about Carr but now...I'm tired of him and his whiny little brother. We pay him to be a leader, he says he has the potential (which after 5 years I'm sick and tired of hearing the word potential, that's for rookies not vets), and then all I hear is this chatter about not having the team around him. The very definition of a leader is that you make those around you better, not that you ride others backs. I want one person to tell me they honestly believe Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Donovan Mcnabb would have put up Carr like numbers with our offense. Those guys would have found a way to score. DD led the AFC in all purpose yards before he got hurt, but the excuse was we didn't have a line or a #2. We line up AJ and Moulds - one of the best twosomes in football - there's still excuses.

Heck, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think Carr's boneheaded decisions and timidness make our line look bad. I'm ready for those guys to get a fair chance.

And this is for hulk - stop whining, it's annoying, stupid, and has really lowered my opinion of your bro 'cause I know you share a gene pool. What really makes it worst is this detachment from reality. When you accept millions of dollars to play a game you open yourself up to criticism and if you can't handle it, well try working a real job. Carr gets paid more than surgeons to lose football games, and I do not feel bad about pointing that out. Heck, we pay him enough money that we can't afford to fix some of our problems. When has Carr stood up and said "hey, I'll take a pay cut so you can get me a lineman, or receiver, or TE..." HE'S NOT WORTH THE MONEY. Bottom line. If you pay someone as one of the best they have to perform as one of the best.

When they play with some of the leagues worst?
Dont be an internet tough guy:yawn: , THATS stupid.

El Tejano
02-22-2007, 03:04 PM
The way I see it is. All those things were good but they led to very few wins and many losses. Stats get blown out of proportion. The stats agains Indy are related to him having to throw and Indy wanting to get the game over with and letting him nickle and dime in the 4th quarter. The day he tied a record for complete passes, he also failed to convert a 3rd down that would've won the game (not really his fault).

David has taken a beating after beating. However, the one thing I see we don't have with David, and I wanted him to stay, is that our team doesn't put their neck on the line for him.

I wanted David Carr to succeed here but when we can't even be any kind of threat on offense for five years, something has got to give. Especially when I've seen QBs do more with less.

So in a nut shell, all the things you bring up about what others say about Carr is exactly what The Texans will use to get the maximum potential from a trade.

thunderkyss
02-22-2007, 03:27 PM
When they play with some of the leagues worst?
Dont be an internet tough guy:yawn: , THATS stupid.

We are just as talented as Buffalo, New York Jets, and Kansas City.

Heath Shuler
02-22-2007, 03:28 PM
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg

Perfect? I think to expect perfection from any human being is beyond unrealistic. However; by any reasonable evaluation after five years all I have seen is unrealized potential, unmet expectations and a diminished skill set. I am a fan of the Houston Texans. My allegiances are not to any one individual. I want what is best for the team; you want what is best for an individual. To demand on a fan message board respect and praise after sub par performance is foolish. If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. The seemingly endless excuses, finger pointing and blame shifting has grown tiresome.
It has never been about Carr the person to me, it has been Carr’s ability as a quarterback to lead the Texans. Carr the individual seems like a very respectable human being. Carr the quarterback is unsuccessful and needs to be replaced.

El Tejano
02-22-2007, 03:28 PM
When they play with some of the leagues worst?
Dont be an internet tough guy:yawn: , THATS stupid.

I didn't have the league's best anything and I came away with two wins vs. The Texans.

Signed,

Vince Young

HOU-TEX
02-22-2007, 03:38 PM
When they play with some of the leagues worst?

:cry2: :crying: The NFL is a business. Get over it! He began his career on an expansion team and he paid the price which he was more than compensated for. Now that the team IS getting better around him, his play has progressively gotten worse over the years. It's time for a divorce and don't expect sympathy.

NFLforher
02-22-2007, 03:40 PM
When they play with some of the leagues worst?
Dont be an internet tough guy:yawn: , THATS stupid.


Hey, David's dad is from Santa Cruz. David has an uncle that played for the Raiders and 49'er's.

Is that you?

Haams
02-22-2007, 04:25 PM
I understand your dissappointment but in no way is that Carr's fault. I understand you...a lot of people upset because he's underperforming.

But nobody can blame Carr for making the money he does. It's not his fault per say. I'd say look at his agent and our Front Office. They are the ones that came up with his salary to an agreement on both sides. If you want to blame carr for getting paid too much, blame mcnair...not carr.

I don't know what you do for a living but for example...say your a banker that get's paid $150,000 a year. You have your loan portfolio but can definitly be making the bank more money...with more loans and better loans. But your boss likes you and think you have potential and one of the reasons you don't have the amount of loans you could...isn't all your fault but partly. Now say he decides to give you a raise to $300,000 per year. Are you going to tell him, no sir i underperformed so i shouldn't get this. or are you going to say...please give $150,000 of my new salary to someone else so they can come in and help the bank.

Probably not. Your boss gave you the 300 grand and you're going to keep it because that was the agreement.....i'm not going to blame you for being overpayed.

Yeah, now we get into the economics of it. I don't necessarrily blame Carr for it, I'm just saying if you get paid like a big dog...you're expected to play like a big dog. If not, fans have every right to complain. I see no reason why we should pay around 8 million dollars for a 2 million dollar product. I'm sayin' you can be a nice guy off the field all you want, but for it to count in my book - be a nice guy to the team. No... it would be stupid to ask for a paycut to help the team but if he did it I would feel bad calling for his head.

Anyway, that was mostly directed at his brother who I'm sure has seen a pretty good amount of benefits flow in his direction from having an NFL QB in the family. (Who constantly comes in here starting threads about his brother then getting upset that none of the fans are feeling manlove towards his underachieving bro).

Haams
02-22-2007, 04:27 PM
When they play with some of the leagues worst?
Dont be an internet tough guy:yawn: , THATS stupid.

What was it Vinny said? "Matter of fact, if you're gonna get emotional about it I suggest you avoid the Carr threads altogether..."

Something like that. That was good stuff. Somebody has it as a signature. Anyway, what happened to your grand goodbye?

real
02-22-2007, 04:30 PM
Now the ridiculousness sets in...


And I think that was Double Barrel that said that.

U4ikrob
02-22-2007, 04:39 PM
In semi-related news - This just in on the Texas Ticker - 790 - Aaron Brooks has been cut by the Raiders...

Overall for myself I'm on the fence where it comes to DC. Ive seen both good and bad from the beginning with David and think he's on the cusp of turning the corner. IMO I want him here another year as I think fiscally for the team and with the available FA talent it makes more sense for the team to try to keep him here. IMO he certainly has places to improve upon to be a more consistent QB and game manager, but made some decent plays too and helped the team win some games. IMHO if he were to spend A lot more film time, it probably wouldnt hurt him and would probably go a long way toward showing the team and staff he's committed to becoming better and improving at his job. Questions are what I see at QB currently and that never makes people feel comfortable. If David plans to stay, he needs to make some serious efforts in showing his teamates, staff and the fans his level commitment to the team and make time to practice with players in the off-season, get the O-line to work with him in the off-season and develop some raport other than at the job. IMO think he did well enough while the team was healthy and faltered later in the year when injuries, lack of depth and other teams schemed to shut our 1-dimensional offensive scheme down. From a team standpoint - He's certainly got some things to improve on as a QB and the leader of the offense, but so does the rest of the offense inluding wide receivers, TE's, RB's and the O-line.

Texans_Chick
02-22-2007, 04:41 PM
Hey, everybodies. Please make football arguments and avoid the personal attack thingies.

The world has enough ugly in it without creating more of it.

Thankyouthankyouverymuch. :texflag:

texans83
02-22-2007, 04:43 PM
This just in on the Texas Ticker - 790 - Aaron Brooks has been cut by the Raiders...

I think we all knew that was going to happen... I hope the Texans stay clear of him

dirty steve
02-22-2007, 04:45 PM
I think we all knew that was going to happen... I hope the Texans stay clear of him
the fact that i had aaron brooks singlehandedly burned down my fantasy team in 2004 is the closest i want him to get to Houston. double ugggghhhh.

Ibar_Harry
02-22-2007, 05:44 PM
Have any of you ever stopped and thought what if it is not excuses and in fact is FACT. You get hurried when you have NO LINE- Fact, people say forget the run and play pass when you cant run-Fact, Good Defenses get the ball back for the Offense so they have more attempts- Fact. I mean really do I have to get in it again, I am not some guy that watched my whole life and never strapped it up, I dont pretend to know what is going on, when others around you dont pull their wieght it aint going to happen or if the guy on the other side of you is better then you, you are going to get beat-Fact. These are not freakin excusess, this is how football is played, its not played in the media when they tell you 1 guy is doing everything and he put them on his shoulders, is bull crap in a sheff salad, everyone has a part in what a person acomplishes, every guy has to do their part. Is david the greatest ever and never messed up one time, NO there are plenty balls he should not have thrown and I told him. BUT he IS not as bad as everyone plays him to be and that is what I hope people get to see either here or somewere else. Whatever happens happens and the Lord has it under controll.

The Texans have never really had a plan to use David's talents and I still say that has been the issue from Day 1. As you say the game is played in many different ways, but it is a team game and the Texans have never been a Team. In year 2 we started to look like a team, but injuries destroyed that hope and we have never recovered.

When you look back at the great Oakland era, you thing of QB's, receivers, and DB's and a tough bunch of guys. However, perhapes one of the most important players on that team was Ray Guy. He simply could get you out of trouble no matter where you were at. He was a difference maker in so many ways. Oakland was able to constantly attack the other team even if they went 3 and out. The gain was simply the difference between the other team's punter and Guy. The difference was potentailly 10 or more yards per possession. He was also good at placing it as well, so they kept the pressure on the opposition.

I happen to be one who thinks David needs to move on, because of what you see on this board as a whole. Sometimes divorce is the only way to go. David has simply given it all, but he can't do it all. This team has been mismanaged from day 1 and its a shame. On one of the other threads I see they are talking about a defensive player for the number 1 pick. When are we going to put together an O-line. Of course the same could be said of the defense, but we probably are closer to that objective than having a good offense.

I'm the 1st to admit I thought we could really have a good year last year. I thought we would use our WR's better than we did and I thought our O-line play would be a whole lot better than it was. When we cut Seth Wand I thought it was over and I still think that was the case. We had to be able to build a new young line with reserves and that didn't happen. When Spencer went down we were basically through, but we did have a couple of good games.

This team is like a ship without a rudder. It is directionless. No ingenuity, no savy, no guts, and no hope except for the ever eternal words if we could only execute and the willingness to embarrase the hell out of our players. I went into the year feeling a great deal of respect and hope for Kubiak and came out of the year with nothing but total disrespect for him based on what I saw.

The one saving grace was the play of Demeco Ryans and all he did. He was an aboration and I think it would have mattered not for who he played. He really was a Gem.

However, poor Mario was simply destroyed and abused by the organization as far as I'm concerned. The young man gave his all, but he simply should not have been playing with the injuries he had. I wonder if he will ever be the player we think he could be. I doubt he has much confidence left. Again, that is simply my opinion. I wonder how many bad habits he has developed playing injured. I wonder how much compensation he did which will have to be unlearned. He, as a young player, was put in a pressure cooker with nowhere to hide. He took a huge amount of abuse from the fans and the press. Why did they think that was cool?

This team has known from day 1 we had to develop and offensive line and we are still talking about it and management is still talking about something other than the O-line. When is management going to understand that the offense is going nowhere until the line is fixed and has sufficient backups in case of injury?

This team has never had one part of the game be consistantly successful. The closest thing we have had has been special teams with respect to the return game not the kicking game.

I loved it when Dungy said he and Smith had done it the Christian way. They of course were talking about their non-abusive approach with the people that play for them. I would not put Kubiak in this camp and some of his antics during the game he had to later appolgize for. He embarrassed David when it was Kubiak's fault and not Davids. It led to all kinds of abuse from the fans and the press. His apology was a hollow one and never was given the light of day by the fans or the press. You do not dress down your employees in public.

Another great coach known for his gentle but firm demeanor was a man by the name of George Allen. I think he had a few great years in the NFL and I think his players believed rather strongly in him. When the man was dieing from cancer he took over a Long Beach State program which was in shambles and quickly made something of it. He simply did it for the love of the game as they really couldn't pay him much.

In closing I will say what I have said a number of times in the past. Certain teams consistantly win year after year in the NFL. Every once in a while they have a bad year, but year in and year out they win. The reason of course is the coaching. This team has never had a great coach and that is the sad story. I no longer think Kubiak will be one.

NATHANHALE
02-22-2007, 05:49 PM
I have a 'big' part of the Carr 'equation' that has not been answered by his supporters--in fact, this aspect has been ignored, even buried when brought up.

When David has time to make something happen down field (which is the majority of the time), he doesn't. Why?

His sacks last year were cut by 1/3(almost 40%) from '05--take away the sacks on David himself and those sacks were in the low 30's, maybe even high 20's. There were a lot of QB's in the league with those kinds of sack #'s (and the pressure that goes with it) and more that put up good production...but not David.

Why? His mindset is all 'screwed up?'

JMO, but that is a 'never ending' answer. If his mindset is all screwed up, what is there that says-no matter the improvements around him-David will ever put up 'acceptable' results? Does David just suddenly wake up one day-break all his bad habits-and play/produce like an NFL QB?

To me, Carr's supporters have backed him into a corner because they have focused totally on defending Carr and given no thought to the concept of 'when.' Last year, we saw no improvement from Carr despite better protection. Weak running game a cause? Carr actually performed better without a running game at season's start than he did during Dayne's 500(?)yds late in the season...even the defense finished strong, but not David.

Bottom line, despite what some say, the team has addressed Carr's issues almost from the beginning and now-ironically-this notion is finally being recognized by Carr's supporters and they are even turning this into an answer for Carr's lack of results. For example, 7 lt tackles and all the different combos of OL has gone from the team does 'too lttle' to help David to they do 'too' much, i.e., the 'gel' factor.

OK, so here it is. When there have been oppurtunities for Carr to 'step' up and make plays, he has not. And, I'm not talking about a bunch of plays every game...just a handful...which is probably all any QB has in a game, but-some make those plays and some do not.

I don't see how Carr can suddenly become an effective player in Houston-can he become one somewhere else? JMO, but Carr's supporters are short changing themselves and are not expecting enough out of him and he's 'mired' in a comfort zone. JMO, but we all get knocked down-some folks stay there, others get up and do the 'same o,' and others get up and try something different...

Finally, I guess the 'biggest' thing I don't understand is why most of us take what is dealt to us-deal with it-and become effective at what we do...but David isn't expected to get desired results until he's given a perfect environment in which to 'strut his stuff.' We shouldn't have to wait for a scenario that will probably never happen to see David's strut---JMO, you Carr fans are over due on the 'flaunt' issue...if it's even there...

afcman
02-22-2007, 07:03 PM
I wanted David Carr to succeed here but when we can't even be any kind of threat on offense for five years, something has got to give. Especially when I've seen QBs do more with less.

ME TOO.

Heath Shuler
02-22-2007, 08:15 PM
Hulk,
Why is the “son-brother-husband” of Carr commissioning reports about his ability? And approximately how much does a “son-brother-husband” pay for such information?

Thanks.

Hulk75
02-22-2007, 08:25 PM
Hulk,
Why is the “son-brother-husband” of Carr commissioning reports about his ability? And approximately how much does a “son-brother-husband” pay for such information?

Thanks.

Is this grade school? The guy told us this, to ALL of us and thats how I worded it, who cares?

It is free, we got a discount:um:

Nighthawk
02-22-2007, 08:29 PM
I think we all knew that was going to happen... I hope the Texans stay clear of him

Doesn't this make the raiders a little more likely to be in the hunt for Carr? I took that to be the point of mentioning it here.

Heath Shuler
02-22-2007, 08:40 PM
Is this grade school? The guy told us this, to ALL of us and thats how I worded it, who cares?

It is free, we got a discount:um:

I don’t understand the grade school comment. I was just curious why you want/need some NFL “expert” to tell you about his ability level.

BattleRedToro
02-22-2007, 08:59 PM
The problem with the Texans is their O-line and when the rest of you "skilled-position" loving morons understand that you will finally understand football. For Instance, Troy Aikman didn't suddenly become a HOF QB because his skills increased between his first and second season. On the contrary he was finally able to display his HOF QB skills because he wasn't on his back all the time and that happened because the Cowboys O-Line was improved. Until the Texans fix their abomination of an O-Line it doesn't matter if you have Joe Montana and Jim Brown behind the line, they aren't going to win many games with D-Linemen on top of them all game long.

mganz
02-22-2007, 09:14 PM
His #1 reason.

BECAUSE...." he hated the hassle of moving"!!!

then he followed it with his typical bs about being a part of something great, blah, blah, blah.

he said that in jest. If your going to quote someone make sure your clear. He said that laughing. He made it clear that he was joking.

Not just you. I've seen several people omit parts of a quote. For example.
Rick Smith: " ....he's been inconsistant..." the rest of that was somethink like, he has done some things bad, but has done other things really good.

big sarge
02-22-2007, 09:37 PM
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish forhttp://www.geekchik.com/images/jakebird.jpg

I totally agree, but you have to realize Hulk that not everyone wants the same thing. I really like DC, and I wish he would stay as a Texan. Let's face it the man has guts.

I didn't know he was your bro though, thats pretty cool. I used to write alot of letters to NFL players, but I haven't done so in a while and I wouldn't have the faintest idea of what address to write to.

Like I said in my last post about David Carr he leads by example by getting back up everytime he is knocked down. I personally think he is the toughest QB in the league or atleat up right next to Brett Farvre. To me David Carr is an awesome example of courage and selfless service.

I am the type of leader who looks for other leaders that put there morals, values, and principals first. That is what the Army is all about. Unfortunately the NFL is not about all that. If it was then David Car would have the MVP every year. I guess what I am saying is you can have all of the stats about how many times DC has been sacked, but where is the stat saying how many times he has gotton back up?

Anyways God Bless!

P.S. How does my new avatar look? This is a pick I took in AR Ramadi, Iraq with an AK-47 we recovered.

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Just because Carr is traded doesn't mean Plummer will become the QB for the Texans.

I don't understand why you keep making that connection. Both are independent decisions.

Because your bringing in a QB that is worth 7mil compared to Rosenfels whos making far less. They arent going to sit him on the bench and btw, he is Kubiak's "boy".

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 09:53 PM
The running game won the Raiders game, the Colts game, and the Brown's game. We got 188 yards against the Bills which was why we were in that game.

In the games where we had a good running game, Carr didn't play well. (Except for the Bills game, and then he didn't step up when we needed him.)

In the games where we didn't have a good running game, Carr didn't play well.

Hmmm...

IF Kubiak/Smith trade Carr it's because they think they can get more production out of the pick that they trade him for than they're getting from him. If Kubiak/Smith get Plummer (which they may or may not), it will be because they think they can get more production out of him than Carr.

The Raiders game is the only one that agrees with that comment. Carr made the clutch pass he needed to make in the Colts game to win (the pass to Andre to win the game). Carr did enough to win the game against the Browns (or didnt screw up badly enough).

Carr can make enough plays to win the game, its just a matter of consistency and that comes with a better o-line and a better understanding of this offense. Carr has done well with the crappy teams hes had all 5 years. He just isnt a strong enough player to increase the win total completely on his own. However, thats not just his fault, it is the team as a whole.

swtbound07
02-22-2007, 09:54 PM
The Raiders game is the only one that agrees with that comment. Carr made the clutch pass he needed to make in the Colts game to win (the pass to Andre to win the game). Carr did enough to win the game against the Browns (or didnt screw up badly enough).

Carr can make enough plays to win the game, its just a matter of consistency and that comes with a better o-line and a better understanding of this offense. Carr has done well with the crappy teams hes had all 5 years. He just isnt a strong enough player to increase the win total completely on his own. However, thats not just his fault, it is the team as a whole.

no..he hasn't. See ..500 seasons, 0

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 10:02 PM
no..he hasn't. See ..500 seasons, 0

An expansion draft team that had its cornerstone lineman down before he even played. Expansion draft spent mostly on defensive players and not offensive. The O-line that allowed a record in sacks. A Defensive minded head coach his first 4 years in the league who had the propensity to being conservative when it was not needed. One receiver who is great most of the times yet has the crucial drops at times (not to mention he had to deal with Corey Bradford and Jermain Lewis for a bit). Carr has done well with this crappy team.

Edit: Domanick Williams' injuries...Charles Spencer going down...theres probably more problems that arent David Carr's fault.

swtbound07
02-22-2007, 10:27 PM
An expansion draft team that had its cornerstone lineman down before he even played. Expansion draft spent mostly on defensive players and not offensive. The O-line that allowed a record in sacks. A Defensive minded head coach his first 4 years in the league who had the propensity to being conservative when it was not needed. One receiver who is great most of the times yet has the crucial drops at times (not to mention he had to deal with Corey Bradford and Jermain Lewis for a bit). Carr has done well with this crappy team.

Edit: Domanick Williams' injuries...Charles Spencer going down...theres probably more problems that arent David Carr's fault.

No. The definition of WELL doesn't change. You can argue he has done all he could, but carr has never done well by any definition of success. Mostly, the definition that matters being wins. If you think he has done well, you had low expectations to begin with.

thunderkyss
02-22-2007, 10:36 PM
I think we all knew that was going to happen... I hope the Texans stay clear of him

Actually, I didn't think it would happen. That was why I doubted the Raiders would take Russell with the #1 overall.

Aaron has had quite a bit of success. If you watched him play in 2000, 2201, & 2002, you'd have seen a very talented QB. He led the Saints to three consecutive winning seasons... & a play off win against the St Louis Rams, when they were a really good team. The most dangerous team I thought at that time, and the Saints knocked them out of the playoffs(2001 I think), and a lot of that was due to Aaron Brooks.

His stats actually got better, over 2002, & 2003...... stats I'd have loved to seen from our QB. No doubt about it, at the most inopportune times, he'd do something stupid, and give the game away..... but in his defense, Haslette makes Capers look like a Hall of fame coach, & Aaron never had a Chris Palmer or anybody as a QB Coach, or Offensive Coordinator. If anybody could use a Coach like Kubiak who can help minimize his mistakes, Aaron does.

If you think David has all the tools to be a good QB, I don't see how you could think differently about Aaron. He's bigger than David, Taller, and more weight. He's got a very strong arm. As strong as David's if not stronger. He's much more mobile, and much more elusive than David. I understand he's never had over 400 yards rushing as a QB, but that's because he tries to stay behind the LOS, he's never wanted to be known as a running QB.

I caught a show the other day on NFL network, and when I caught the show, Allen Iverson was talking about watching Brooks, and feeling envious of the success Aaron was having, and how he always wanted to play football, & not basketball.

They got into talking about how Iverson & Brooks were always competing in highschool, in both sports..... they went to different highschools close by. The media was all over Iverson as a QB, & he overshadowed Brooks. Then after Brooks left, Michael Vick took his place as the starting QB.... but he was overshadowed by some guy who didn't make it to the NFL.... then after Vick, little Vick took over........ it was a pretty good show.

You want to call him dumb..... I can't argue with that. But Aaron is a very, very talented QB, who will tear you apart if you give him time to sit in the pocket.

thunderkyss
02-22-2007, 10:43 PM
An expansion draft team that had its cornerstone lineman down before he even played. Expansion draft spent mostly on defensive players and not offensive. The O-line that allowed a record in sacks. A Defensive minded head coach his first 4 years in the league who had the propensity to being conservative when it was not needed. One receiver who is great most of the times yet has the crucial drops at times (not to mention he had to deal with Corey Bradford and Jermain Lewis for a bit). Brooks has done well with this crappy team.


I agree. Haslette screwed the kid up. Horn was nice, but not consistent..... despite multiple ProBowls. Stallworth came along way to late, the defense was inconsistant, Then when they did draft the star running back, he was always knicked up..

But he did take the Ain'ts to a playoff win.... & back to back winning seasons.

BattleRedToro
02-23-2007, 12:35 AM
I agree. Haslette screwed the kid up. Horn was nice, but not consistent..... despite multiple ProBowls. Stallworth came along way to late, the defense was inconsistant, Then when they did draft the star running back, he was always knicked up..

But he did take the Ain'ts to a playoff win.... & back to back winning seasons.

Actually this year was the first year that the Saints have ever won a playoff game, atleast that is what I heard the commentators say when I watched them in the playoffs.