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CowboysTexansFan
02-20-2007, 08:45 PM
Lance Zerlein reported some good news about Charles Spencer in his blog about the NFL draft. In response to a blogger's post, LZ wrote the following:

"I'm not too crazy about Levi Brown at that spot. Plus, after speaking with someone close to Charles Spencer's rehab recently, I feel much better about his chances of coming back healthy this year at some point."

In response, I asked the following questions that LZ partially answered:

[snip]

Can you shed more light on how Spencer's rehab is coming along? I recall there was some fear the cartilage wouldn't grow back on his knee. Is it growing back? Does it look like Spencer will regain all of his previous mobility, so he can stay at LT? When is he expected to be ready to play? I take it from your comment that it may not be until during the season.

From what I've been told, the best case scenario is that he'll be ready to go by some point in the preseason and by worst case scenario he'll start the season on the PUP list and be in a similar situation that K.Wong was in last year. However, all in all, it sounds like he has been diligent with his rehab and that he is just grinding his way through the long, slow process. There is still some unknown to get through in terms of his mobility, but the fear that he would have permanent cartilage damage is subsiding.

So... the good news is we apparently don't have to worry about Spencer's career being over. The jury is still out on whether he'll recover all of his athletic ability, but the initial returns are promising. It would be great if he can be a long-term answer at LT. Alternatively, if he can still be a good RT or guard, I'll take it--though I'd much prefer that he'd be a stud LT! :doot:

Hopefully Spencer's friend and occasional poster CT CSTM can provide more information.

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2007/02/post_4.html

Silver Oak
02-20-2007, 09:05 PM
That is great news indeed! It will certainly have a bearing on how the Texans go about business in reagrds to FA and the draft.

Of course it is also good news to Charles Spencer and his family as well.

mexican_texan
02-20-2007, 09:13 PM
Translation: fears persist about his ability to fully come back.

LORK 88
02-20-2007, 09:16 PM
At this point, I'm just glad that the possibility for him to come back is getting better and better. Yes, there still is a chance he doesn't come back full strength, but things are looking up and I like how positive this feedback was.

keyfro
02-20-2007, 10:32 PM
i'm prayin he can come back healthy...my concern is with his knee is that there is still probably going to be some arthritis in that knee...how long can he play...do we need him to change position on the o-line to allow him a better chance at success...what about this change

? at left tackle
pitts at left guard
weary at center
spencer at right guard
winston at right tackle

Clash_Fan3605
02-20-2007, 10:36 PM
This is good news. Lets all hope for a healthy hear for Charles Spencer starting Week 1. :yahoo:

Blu
02-20-2007, 10:39 PM
Amen.

Please_Evolve
02-20-2007, 10:54 PM
I wouldn't mind bringing someone in like Pettigout as a solid insurance policy at LT or Addressing the need in the draft still.

Pettigout?/Brown?/ Staley?/Ugoh? at left tackle
pitts at left guard
weary at center
spencer at right guard
winston at right tackle

..that actually looks like a solid Oline. :yes:

Texans Horror
02-20-2007, 10:58 PM
Hmmm...Wand?...nah! It'd never happen...

:tease:

Trap_Star
02-20-2007, 11:07 PM
Hmmm...Wand?...nah! It'd never happen...

:tease:

I rather we bring Matt Stevens back...:rolleyes:

dirty steve
02-20-2007, 11:17 PM
I rather we bring Matt Stevens back...:rolleyes:
lets not push it.

LORK 88
02-20-2007, 11:18 PM
I rather we bring Matt Stevens back...:rolleyes:
Oh, the horror!

SAMURAITEXAN
02-21-2007, 12:46 AM
The fear that he would have permanent cartilage damage is subsiding!!

Good news!!

mancunian
02-21-2007, 01:53 AM
I rather we bring Matt Stevens back...:rolleyes:


I broke out in a cold sweat when you wrote that

Ole Miss Texan
02-21-2007, 02:27 AM
From what I've been told, the best case scenario is that he'll be ready to go by some point in the preseason and by worst case scenario he'll start the season on the PUP list and be in a similar situation that K.Wong was in last year. However, all in all, it sounds like he has been diligent with his rehab and that he is just grinding his way through the long, slow process. There is still some unknown to get through in terms of his mobility, but the fear that he would have permanent cartilage damage is subsiding.


Please don't get me wrong, I Pray to God Spencer checks out and can play LT for us the entire season.

But from just what was written above, how can anyone be glad to hear that? It's basically what we've been hearing the whole time! Best case scenario he can start for us ( Well no #@#$!!!!) of course that woud be the best case scenario. worst case scenario would be he'd never play again....this says he'd be on the PUP....which means we really don't have any idea. Domanick probably will never play sufficient time IMO. Hope Spencer isn't the same way!


I don't see how this is any new knews. or at least great news. Kubiak has said he's not waiting on players to get better. like last year with davis....so why wouldn't he pick levi brown in this situation...who's to say spencer can play at all much less LT or RT???

To me this is worthless...sorry to be to whole grinch of all of this but I don't see how anyone can draw any sort of conclusions to this.

DocBar
02-21-2007, 07:19 AM
Please don't get me wrong, I Pray to God Spencer checks out and can play LT for us the entire season.

But from just what was written above, how can anyone be glad to hear that? It's basically what we've been hearing the whole time! Best case scenario he can start for us ( Well no #@#$!!!!) of course that woud be the best case scenario. worst case scenario would be he'd never play again....this says he'd be on the PUP....which means we really don't have any idea. Domanick probably will never play sufficient time IMO. Hope Spencer isn't the same way!


I don't see how this is any new knews. or at least great news. Kubiak has said he's not waiting on players to get better. like last year with davis....so why wouldn't he pick levi brown in this situation...who's to say spencer can play at all much less LT or RT???

To me this is worthless...sorry to be to whole grinch of all of this but I don't see how anyone can draw any sort of conclusions to this.
It's the offseason and if it isn't BAD news, then it MUST be GOOD news. Other than that, I agree with you.:bubble:

Silver Oak
02-21-2007, 07:53 AM
But from just what was written above, how can anyone be glad to hear that? It's basically what we've been hearing the whole time!

The way I interpret the blog is that there has been improvement over what we knew beforehand. The word on the street before was that he might not possibly play again. Now LZ has him playing...possibly in the preseason.

TEXANRED
02-21-2007, 07:56 AM
I rather we bring Matt Stevens back...:rolleyes:

I am sure Ricky Williams wouldn't mind seeing him again so he can get his shoe back.

nunusguy
02-21-2007, 08:04 AM
The way I interpret the blog is that there has been improvement over what we knew beforehand. The word on the street before was that he might not possibly play again. Now LZ has him playing...possibly in the preseason.
I dunno, but think I'm with Ole Miss on this topic.
There really is nothing new that is more than wishful thinking based on speculation.
On another website, posters recently were saying they know NFL players
personally who say the league grapevine says Spencer's career is basically
over. So what is that, third hand rumors ?
If he could play and contribute to the team in the 2008 season after taking
all of 2007 for rehab, don't know about others but I'd jump all over that deal if it was offered.

real
02-21-2007, 08:08 AM
Please don't get me wrong, I Pray to God Spencer checks out and can play LT for us the entire season.

But from just what was written above, how can anyone be glad to hear that? It's basically what we've been hearing the whole time! Best case scenario he can start for us ( Well no #@#$!!!!) of course that woud be the best case scenario. worst case scenario would be he'd never play again....this says he'd be on the PUP....which means we really don't have any idea. Domanick probably will never play sufficient time IMO. Hope Spencer isn't the same way!


I don't see how this is any new knews. or at least great news. Kubiak has said he's not waiting on players to get better. like last year with davis....so why wouldn't he pick levi brown in this situation...who's to say spencer can play at all much less LT or RT???

To me this is worthless...sorry to be to whole grinch of all of this but I don't see how anyone can draw any sort of conclusions to this.


It's beyond me how anyone can take this as something other than good news.

El Tejano
02-21-2007, 08:21 AM
I see it as good news, but I also see it as a don't count on it thing if you want this team to go to the next level.

I think it is important for us all to understand and remember that Kubiak advised we are going into this offseason based on who we know can play NOW. If a position has an injured person there that is in limbo, we are going to acquire players accordingly to fill holes on our roster.

Tailgate
02-21-2007, 08:34 AM
Please don't get me wrong, I Pray to God Spencer checks out and can play LT for us the entire season.

But from just what was written above, how can anyone be glad to hear that? It's basically what we've been hearing the whole time! Best case scenario he can start for us ( Well no #@#$!!!!) of course that woud be the best case scenario. worst case scenario would be he'd never play again....this says he'd be on the PUP....which means we really don't have any idea. Domanick probably will never play sufficient time IMO. Hope Spencer isn't the same way!


I don't see how this is any new knews. or at least great news. Kubiak has said he's not waiting on players to get better. like last year with davis....so why wouldn't he pick levi brown in this situation...who's to say spencer can play at all much less LT or RT???

To me this is worthless...sorry to be to whole grinch of all of this but I don't see how anyone can draw any sort of conclusions to this.

Would you prefer it to say his cartilage fears were NOT subsiding??? I think that would be the bad news and STILL worthy of a thread. Cmon man... ITS THE OFFSEASON.

real
02-21-2007, 08:39 AM
...the fear that he would have permanent cartilage damage is subsiding.

You don't make statements like this if there hasn't been something positive happening.

GP
02-21-2007, 09:25 AM
With AP's stock rising to the point that he's looking to be a potential No. 3 pick, which puts him way out of our range IMO, then I say draft Levi Brown and get a definite OT.

If Spencer is indeed back on the field, it gives us two OTs.

Wouldn't that be a pretty good thing?

What would be worse: Having two OTs, or having only one OT who is iffy?

I like hearing the positive news, don't get me wrong, but I think Domanick's ordeal has me apprehensive about putting all our eggs in the Charles Spencer basket.

At some point, this franchise has to put a higher priority on the OL. First round picks (HIGH picks): Carr, AJ, D-Rob, TJ, Mario. Has there been an OL taken by our team any higher than round No. 3? Five drafts and Spencer is the first bonified OL that's been taken?

AP is no longer possible. Time to switch gears and take Levi Brown.

HOU-TEX
02-21-2007, 09:30 AM
At some point, this franchise has to put a higher priority on the OL. First round picks (HIGH picks): Carr, AJ, D-Rob, TJ, Mario. Has there been an OL taken by our team any higher than round No. 3? Five drafts and Spencer is the first bonified OL that's been taken?

AP is no longer possible. Time to switch gears and take Levi Brown.

Chester Pitts, round 2 #18:yes:

real
02-21-2007, 09:40 AM
With AP's stock rising to the point that he's looking to be a potential No. 3 pick, which puts him way out of our range IMO, then I say draft Levi Brown and get a definite OT.

If Spencer is indeed back on the field, it gives us two OTs.

Wouldn't that be a pretty good thing?

What would be worse: Having two OTs, or having only one OT who is iffy?

I like hearing the positive news, don't get me wrong, but I think Domanick's ordeal has me apprehensive about putting all our eggs in the Charles Spencer basket.

At some point, this franchise has to put a higher priority on the OL. First round picks (HIGH picks): Carr, AJ, D-Rob, TJ, Mario. Has there been an OL taken by our team any higher than round No. 3? Five drafts and Spencer is the first bonified OL that's been taken?

AP is no longer possible. Time to switch gears and take Levi Brown.

IMO, the team has tried to upgrade our O-line, it just hasn't worked out according to plan. In fact I think that was one of their main points when the franchise began.

TransplantTexan1
02-21-2007, 09:40 AM
I prefer we move down a few spots if we're taking Levi Brown. #8 seems about 4-5 picks too high for him. Of course, people thought Cincinnati reached a little to take Levi Jones in the Top Ten, but it's worked out well for them.

GP
02-21-2007, 09:46 AM
IMO, the team has tried to upgrade our O-line, it just hasn't worked out according to plan. In fact I think that was one of their main points when the franchise began.

I don't agree with that at all.

If you call "upgrading" overpaying Todd Wade and other cast-offs, then OK.

I have not seen this team draft a true physical specimen, a big guy with agility and athleticism. Have we?

I don't remember it. All I remember is us trading in the offseason (evey offseason) for the next "piece of the puzzle" that was supposed to bring everything together.

Playmakers excite us. It's natural.

But playmakers sit on the bench and throw pity parties for themselves (AJ) when they can't get the ball from the QB consistently because the OL is a wreck and leaks like a screen door on a submarine. NObody can look at the OLs of playoff teams, the games we watched in the playoffs, and say that our OL is not a wreck. It's awful. Period.

If Kubiak drafts an OL in the first round, I will pee myself.

GP
02-21-2007, 09:56 AM
I prefer we move down a few spots if we're taking Levi Brown. #8 seems about 4-5 picks too high for him. Of course, people thought Cincinnati reached a little to take Levi Jones in the Top Ten, but it's worked out well for them.

If we can GUARANTEE that a team will not out-maneuver us and grab Levi Brown before we can take him...then I'm OK with what you're theorizing.

But there is a tier of top-shelf players, and I think that taking Levi Brown in the Top 10 would be justified, IMO. I prefer Joe Thomas...but he and AP are probably gone in the first 3 picks at this point.

That leaves Levi as the next best OL who is a big, athletic guy that would fit nice with Spencer. If we had Spencer on the right side of the line, and had Levi on the other side, that would make the middle of the line so much better (in an instant!) because they can slide to either side and merely "help out" Spencer or Brown.

Right now, we're matching up one-on-one OL vs. DL and we're getting beat a lot--Our talent is not good enough to match up man-on-man, and Levi/Spencer will even the playing field, IMO.

AP sliding way up the draft board might be a blessing in disguise. This team needs OL help. What a great time to get it when you've got Joe Thomas and Levi Brown in the draft at the same time.

real
02-21-2007, 09:57 AM
I have not seen this team draft a true physical specimen, a big guy with agility and athleticism. Have we?


I haven't seen us draft a RB like that, QB like that, Safety like that, Kicker like that, Punter, TE, LB, or DT....

Really the only guy who fits that mold is Mario.

When our franchise started the Texans main point was that they were going to build a line to protect their young QB. They may not have done a good job at it, but I think they have tried. Our line has had some pretty bad luck as far as injuries are concerned, and there isn't really any way the team could have predicted those injuries. We can't have a stud at every position, and unfortunately OL is a weakness that we haven't been too successful at filling. Doesn't mean they haven't tried.

GP
02-21-2007, 10:01 AM
If Kubiak drafts an OL in the first round, I will pee myself.

I want it on video.

Good news, definitely, for Spencer. The fading suspicion of permanent damage tells me that he will be back at some point. Maybe not preseason-or hell-THIS season, but I think having Levi Brown at #8 or trade down a few a and grab him is a good deal. Spencer can play somewhere else on the line or as a depth player, which would rock my socks off.

I want to see how Kubiak maneuvers this year's draft.

After this draft, we'll know with some degree of certainty what to expect from Kubiak in each of the following drafts.

If he takes an OL (Levi) with a high pick OR if he trades down to get more picks, then he's the brainiac he's been made out to be.

If he panics and takes a playmaker, then I'll be disappointed. Logic would point me to drafting Levi Brown.

Kiper predicts it. FoxSports mock draft predicts it. Each one of those mocks say that Quinn is there for the taking at No. 8 but that the Texans will pass and go with Levi Brown. I hope so.

real
02-21-2007, 10:07 AM
I hope we don't go OL in the first. I think we could use our pick better.

Arky
02-21-2007, 10:09 AM
If we can GUARANTEE that a team will not out-maneuver us and grab Levi Brown before we can take him...then I'm OK with what you're theorizing.

But there is a tier of top-shelf players, and I think that taking Levi Brown in the Top 10 would be justified, IMO. I prefer Joe Thomas...but he and AP are probably gone in the first 3 picks at this point.

That leaves Levi as the next best OL who is a big, athletic guy that would fit nice with Spencer. If we had Spencer on the right side of the line, and had Levi on the other side, that would make the middle of the line so much better (in an instant!) because they can slide to either side and merely "help out" Spencer or Brown.

Right now, we're matching up one-on-one OL vs. DL and we're getting beat a lot--Our talent is not good enough to match up man-on-man, and Levi/Spencer will even the playing field, IMO.

AP sliding way up the draft board might be a blessing in disguise. This team needs OL help. What a great time to get it when you've got Joe Thomas and Levi Brown in the draft at the same time.

Totally agree. Quality/1st day OL are badly needed (always have been) and if they are not starting, then it's nice to have them for depth/learning the ropes. At some point, it would be nice to acquire a long term, kickasset center... Center is another position that has been a revolving door.....


Spencer RT, Brown LT, Pitts LG, Winston RG and a center to be named could be formidable for a long time if they play up to potential...

GP
02-21-2007, 10:10 AM
I haven't seen us draft a RB like that, QB like that, Safety like that, Kicker like that, Punter, TE, LB, or DT....

Really the only guy who fits that mold is Mario.

When our franchise started the Texans main point was that they were going to build a line to protect their young QB. They may not have done a good job at it, but I think they have tried. Our line has had some pretty bad luck as far as injuries are concerned, and there isn't really any way the team could have predicted those injuries. We can't have a stud at every position, and unfortunately OL is a weakness that we haven't been too successful at filling. Doesn't mean they haven't tried.

Carr was drafted as a star QB prospect.

AJ was drafted as a star WR prospect.

Dunta was drafted as a star DB prospect.

TJ was the exception because he was a middle-round pick, which I think is always the most dangerous spot to draft at...are those middle round picks really first rounders, or just second rounders pretending to be first rounders. I would say that TJ is playing like a 4th round player right now. That was a wasted first round pick.

Mario was drafted as a star DL prospect.

So we have two skill position players (WR and QB) taken in round one. And three defensive players taken in round one.

We're not getting AP at No. 8.....we cannot trade up high enough to get AP with the price that will be asked of us. I don't see a Tony Gonzales at TE that's worthy of being picked No. 8. Who has EVER drafted a kicker or punter at No. 8 or less? That would be interesting to look up. LB might be the only real argument you have.

If Spencer were 100% healthy (never been injured) then Levi Brown at No. 8 might not be as obvious a pick to me. But it accomplishes two things: Gives us a backup plan if Spencer is out, and doubles our talent on the OL if Spencer is back.

It's not the sexy pick, but I think it's the most logical one.

HJam72
02-21-2007, 10:15 AM
Unless Hall or some other corner is worth the #8 pick (I still say DBs are our biggest need), I'd like to go O-line in the first round. We've been needing to do that for a very long time.

GP
02-21-2007, 10:17 AM
I hope we don't go OL in the first. I think we could use our pick better.

Trading down and taking Landry, Nelson, Okoye, or Lynch is about the only way I think we could use our pick better.

But I still think that any of those players are on a level below the top level of Joe Thomas, Gaines Adams, Allan Branch, Levi Brown, Calvin Johnson, and Adrian Peterson--Jemracus Russell is a gamble, IMO, and I don't rank him in the same league as the other seven.

That's 7 star-quality players (leaving Russell out of the mix) and we're drafting at No. 8. Without Jemarcus Russell in there, I fear we wouldn't even have a shot at Levi at No. 8 to be quite honest.

Heaven help us if we trade UP when we could stay and get Levi, or trade down and get an extra pick AND still pull off a minor victory with some DB or DL help.

real
02-21-2007, 10:21 AM
Carr was drafted as a star QB prospect.

AJ was drafted as a star WR prospect.

Dunta was drafted as a star DB prospect.

Mario was drafted as a star DL prospect.

That's not what you originally said...You said, "a true physical Specimen, a big guy with agility."

I forgot about A.J...So I guess that makes two.

If you meant that we hadn't spent a first rd. pick on an Offensive lineman then I think that much is obvious. Out of the first 15 selections made in our expansion draft 5 were O-line. I personally believe that our O-line isn't even that bad. I don't think they are the worse unit.

HJam72
02-21-2007, 10:26 AM
Check out the top 5 O-linemen here:

http://www.houstontexans.com/texans_tv/?section=Multimedia

PS-You'll have to choose the video on the left side. The one that start automatically is TEs. Also, you probably have to be signed up for Texans Internet TV (it's free though).

real
02-21-2007, 10:29 AM
Trading down and taking Landry, Nelson, Okoye, or Lynch is about the only way I think we could use our pick better.

But I still think that any of those players are on a level below the top level of Joe Thomas, Gaines Adams, Allan Branch, Levi Brown, Calvin Johnson, and Adrian Peterson--Jemracus Russell is a gamble, IMO, and I don't rank him in the same league as the other seven.

That's 7 star-quality players (leaving Russell out of the mix) and we're drafting at No. 8. Without Jemarcus Russell in there, I fear we wouldn't even have a shot at Levi at No. 8 to be quite honest.

Heaven help us if we trade UP when we could stay and get Levi, or trade down and get an extra pick AND still pull off a minor victory with some DB or DL help.

We just have different opinions of players...

Personally I'm not that high on Levi Brown, and I think the only reason he has risen as of late is because someone said so. I don't think he's worth any pick over 15. Even if we traded back, I'd look more towards adding an explosive defensive player or running back. I think those are two things we need more than a 1st rd. LT at this point.

Trap_Star
02-21-2007, 10:32 AM
We just have different opinions of players...

Personally I'm not that high on Levi Brown, and I think the only reason he has risen as of late is because someone said so. I don't think he's worth any pick over 15. Even if we traded back, I'd look more towards adding an explosive defensive player or running back. I think those are two things we need more than a 1st rd. LT at this point.

I tend to agree with that....Had Joe Thomas participated in the senio-bowl, we would'nt be talking about Levi brown IMO...

real
02-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Levi Brown probably wouldn't have gone in front of Gaither had he come out.

Meloy
02-21-2007, 10:38 AM
I haven't seen us draft a RB like that, QB like that, Safety like that, Kicker like that, Punter, TE, LB, or DT....

Really the only guy who fits that mold is Mario.

When our franchise started the Texans main point was that they were going to build a line to protect their young QB. They may not have done a good job at it, but I think they have tried. Our line has had some pretty bad luck as far as injuries are concerned, and there isn't really any way the team could have predicted those injuries. We can't have a stud at every position, and unfortunately OL is a weakness that we haven't been too successful at filling. Doesn't mean they haven't tried. Not attacking you but we see the effort to get Oline differently. Boselli was sold to us as a "bill of goods" to get the other two players we wanted. We suckered on his rep and despite what HIS doctor said/did, the Texans team doctor that went along saying Boselli could play; that was never explained that I know of. Pitts? Yes, a guy pulled out of a grocery store to play college due to his physique. I love the guy but is a guard and we still have no LT. Free agents out the Whazoo & none can hold the starter role. Spencer? Great to have but a third round pick that played 1 1/2 games. What stud do we have at any offensive position? Andre Johnson! When we draft at #8, that player whomever it is, better lock down a position for at least five years. I am just very lery of any trade scenario so far.

HOU-TEX
02-21-2007, 10:43 AM
Levi Brown probably wouldn't have gone in front of Gaither had he come out.

Here's a little info on Levi. I also heard on the NFL network that his arm length is what will help him in the NFL. They also went as far to say that he has more upside than Joe Thomas in the NFL. The only bad thing they added was he likes to take plays off. Take it for what it's worth. :winky:

Strengths:
Has excellent size with a huge frame and long arms...A superb athlete with good quickness for his size...Moves well and has nimble feet...Once he is able to lock on it's over...Slides well and can handle speed off the edge...Strong and able to stun with his initial punch...Solid run blocker who gets a pretty good push...Has 4 years of starting experience versus top competition...Smart, hard working and a leader.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/levibrown.html

Weaknesses:
Lacks a mean streak and may not have that killer instinct...Is not overly powerful or aggressive...Is not a great technician...Somewhat inconsistent player who can be dominant at times and a bit lackadaisical at others...Needs to play with better leverage...It's not a given that he'll be able to stay at left tackle once in the pros.

real
02-21-2007, 10:53 AM
Not attacking you but we see the effort to get Oline differently. Boselli was sold to us as a "bill of goods" to get the other two players we wanted. We suckered on his rep and despite what HIS doctor said/did, the Texans team doctor that went along saying Boselli could play; that was never explained that I know of. Pitts? Yes, a guy pulled out of a grocery store to play college due to his physique. I love the guy but is a guard and we still have no LT. Free agents out the Whazoo & none can hold the starter role. Spencer? Great to have but a third round pick that played 1 1/2 games. What stud do we have at any offensive position? Andre Johnson! When we draft at #8, that player whomever it is, better lock down a position for at least five years. I am just very lery of any trade scenario so far.

I understand what you're saying, but what difference does it make where a guys comes from? or what rd. he was drafted in ? What does Chester Pitts packing groceries have to do with how good a lineman he is in the NFL ?

Question: Would you rather have a Spencer or Winston in the third or a Robert Gallery in the first ?

Your status pre-draft doesn't really have anything to do with how you preform once you're in the leauge. All a players draft status is based on is peoples opinions.

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 11:31 AM
I wouldn't mind bringing someone in like Pettigout as a solid insurance policy at LT or Addressing the need in the draft still.

Pettigout?/Brown?/ Staley?/Ugoh? at left tackle
pitts at left guard
weary at center
spencer at right guard
winston at right tackle

..that actually looks like a solid Oline. :yes:

Why bring in Luke, when you can draft Levi Brown in all probablity, and be done with the o-line once and for all ? As far as lance is concerned...when has this guy ever advocated building the team from the inside out. Staley and Ugoh will be exposed satuarday. Nope with all respect to LZ and the all day guys, wanna get to the play offs in '08 ? Levi Brown, if he's there, is your pick. IIRC, Wong was a very, very long time coming back. If that's what he is saying here, then I think I'll pass. I just love all of these secret sources don't you ? Untill I hear it coming from Kubiak's and Smith's lips...It's all pie- -in -the -sky hope. Nothing more.

Lucky
02-21-2007, 11:34 AM
Here's a little info on Levi. I also heard on the NFL network that his arm length is what will help him in the NFL.
Brown's arm length was measured at 34.5" at the Senior Bowl (longest of any on the North squad). Only the South's Tony Ugoh (36") and Dallas Baker (35.75") were longer at the Senior Bowl.

In contrast, Charles Spencer's arm length was measured at 34" at the '06 Senior Bowl. Eric Winston came in at 32.25".

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 11:37 AM
Levi Brown probably wouldn't have gone in front of Gaither had he come out.

That's just wrong from my point of view. Bordering on Eric Winston hype like last year. I watched the guy four games...he would have gone early round two on pure speculation had he come out. Not by what he did on the field. He couldn't beat out Heyer for heavens sake when Heyer went down with an injury. He got all of three series at OLT last year. There is a reason Gaither by passed his big pay day. And that reason was he wasn't redy yet. Anyone watching maryland last season...with a lick of sense could see it.

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 11:43 AM
I don't agree with that at all.

If you call "upgrading" overpaying Todd Wade and other cast-offs, then OK.

I have not seen this team draft a true physical specimen, a big guy with agility and athleticism. Have we?

I don't remember it. All I remember is us trading in the offseason (evey offseason) for the next "piece of the puzzle" that was supposed to bring everything together.

Playmakers excite us. It's natural.

But playmakers sit on the bench and throw pity parties for themselves (AJ) when they can't get the ball from the QB consistently because the OL is a wreck and leaks like a screen door on a submarine. NObody can look at the OLs of playoff teams, the games we watched in the playoffs, and say that our OL is not a wreck. It's awful. Period.

If Kubiak drafts an OL in the first round, I will pee myself.

List them...and keep listing them untill the draft the skill guys get it. Boselli, RaynTucker, Seth Wand, Todd Wade, and Victor Riley. That should be enough for most folks without a man crush.

real
02-21-2007, 11:50 AM
That's just wrong from my point of view. Bordering on Eric Winston hype like last year. I watched the guy four games...he would have gone early round two on pure speculation had he come out. Not by what he did on the field. He couldn't beat out Heyer for heavens sake when Heyer went down with an injury. He got all of three series at OLT last year. There is a reason Gaither by passed his big pay day. And that reason was he wasn't redy yet. Anyone watching maryland last season...with a lick of sense could see it.


Yeah i get all that...

But to me that just makes Levi sound worse.

Even after you list all of the reasons Gaither wasn't ready, he still had a chance to go in front of Levi.

Frills
02-21-2007, 11:53 AM
It is good news, we haven't seen a quote from Spencer claiming that he won't play unless it feels like it used to.

Meloy
02-21-2007, 11:58 AM
I understand what you're saying, but what difference does it make where a guys comes from? or what rd. he was drafted in ? What does Chester Pitts packing groceries have to do with how good a lineman he is in the NFL ?

Question: Would you rather have a Spencer or Winston in the third or a Robert Gallery in the first ?

Your status pre-draft doesn't really have anything to do with how you preform once you're in the leauge. All a players draft status is based on is peoples opinions.Good discussion. My point is that the Texans have not IMO done what was needed to build an Oline. Pitts has no high school/college pettigree that most teams look for in drafting a LT. Of course, he turned out well for a 2nd round pick but is a guard. Texans have constantly tried to convert a guard or RT into a QB bodyguard. The 'true' LT free agents have been players literally on their last legs. Your choice of Spencer/Winston vs Gallery can only be looked at based on "potential" at time that player was drafted. It would be Gallery every time. Sure we can look back and say Gallery was not the "once in a lifetime" LT he was praised to be. We can look back at Spencer & Winston and say "One played pretty darn well for less than 2 games." The other did average while he was healthy. Would Gallery's team trade him even for either?

Again, our team needs a stablizing left tackle that can give the QB a chance to collect his pension. We do not have nor have we ever had such a player. Can Spencer recover and become that guy? It can go either way. In apprx two months we will know what Kubes thinks of CS being the starter at LT. Hope he makes the right call.

Please_Evolve
02-21-2007, 12:04 PM
Why bring in Luke, when you can draft Levi Brown in all probablity, and be done with the o-line once and for all ? As far as lance is concerned...when has this guy ever advocated building the team from the inside out. Staley and Ugoh will be exposed satuarday. Nope with all respect to LZ and the all day guys, wanna get to the play offs in '08 ? Levi Brown, if he's there, is your pick. IIRC, Wong was a very, very long time coming back. If that's what he is saying here, then I think I'll pass. I just love all of these secret sources don't you ? Untill I hear it coming from Kubiak's and Smith's lips...It's all pie- -in -the -sky hope. Nothing more.

I think i'd only want pettigout if we landed AP...I'm much more in the Levi Brown camp right now. Much like last year i was hoping to land Ferguson but in the future i am sure i'll love the mario pick down the road.

I don't care for the attitude that says oh well... I like Levi Brown but not at 8. Well...where at then? 12? 14? Reminds me last year when the Bills went with Whitner early. People said they loved the pick but thought it was too early. IF that's who you are targetting who cares where you pick him just grab him at the spot and don't get all cute cause the guy might get taken or someone might punk you for the pick. In the end i think the release of Nate clements will be made a LOT easier with Ko Simpson and Donte Whitner at safeties.

BPA people....seriously when are we going to address the line? I will point out again the Jets looked to be in turmoil after last year with Herm Edwards leaving, Curtis martin's future in doubt(still), rookie headcoach...and they draft a Stud LT and Stud C and guess what....they made the playoffs still without the all world offensive threat. I'm going to have to say the solid line play MIGHT have had something to do with it.

Pete not a big fan on all the secret sources either. I had hoped that we learned last year that placing ones blind hopes in a player that can return to form(I REALLLY Hope he does,same way i REALLY HOPED DW could too). Either way Levi Brown should be a solid LT and if Spncer does come back in time... we've got a problem i can deal with...where to shift Spencer to. T or G it really doesn't bother me long as we can put a solid oline on the field and the entire offense will be better for it.

HOU-TEX
02-21-2007, 12:07 PM
Brown's arm length was measured at 34.5" at the Senior Bowl (longest of any on the North squad). Only the South's Tony Ugoh (36") and Dallas Baker (35.75") were longer at the Senior Bowl.

In contrast, Charles Spencer's arm length was measured at 34" at the '06 Senior Bowl. Eric Winston came in at 32.25".

So by stating that, do you see arm length as a true asset for an Olineman? Or do you think it's an overrated issue? I guess it depends on athletic ability as well, but overall, what would be the best way to scout an Olineman? Speed, agility, strength, body size, intelligence, etc. What is the scouts primary concern with linemen?:shades:

Trap_Star
02-21-2007, 12:09 PM
So by stating that, do you see arm length as a true asset for an Olineman? Or do you think it's an overrated issue? I guess it depends on athletic ability as well, but overall, what would be the best way to scout an Olineman? Speed, agility, strength, body size, intelligence, etc. What is the scouts primary concern with linemen?:shades:

I think its a combination of size and quickness of their feet...

Please_Evolve
02-21-2007, 12:10 PM
Yeah i get all that...

But to me that just makes Levi sound worse.

Even after you list all of the reasons Gaither wasn't ready, he still had a chance to go in front of Levi.

Chance sure..but would he have over a four year starter in the Big Ten who performed well at the Senoir Bowl and probably will at the combine as well? I doubt it.

Lucky
02-21-2007, 12:19 PM
So by stating that, do you see arm length as a true asset for an Olineman? Or do you think it's an overrated issue?
I think it's important in the eyes of scouts. That's part of the reason Eric Winston lasted as long as he did in last year's draft. The prototype guy is huge, with long arms, quick feet, nasty demeanor, and a Rhodes scholar. And you can find a guy who has all that, and he can still bust (Robert Gallery). Scouting is hard.

real
02-21-2007, 12:20 PM
Good discussion. My point is that the Texans have not IMO done what was needed to build an Oline.

There is no debating this point. That much is fairly obvious.

They have also not done what was needed to build a solid LB corps, Defensive backfield, solid running game, and we still don't have a QB.

Have they trie to do these things. Sure. But that depends on what your defenition of "try" is. I think that if the Colts can win the Superbowl with draft picks on their line, so can we. IMO, they have tried to build an O-line, it just hasn't worked out. You may not think they've put enough effort into it, but I don't think they've put great effort into anything.

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 12:21 PM
So by stating that, do you see arm length as a true asset for an Olineman? Or do you think it's an overrated issue? I guess it depends on athletic ability as well, but overall, what would be the best way to scout an Olineman? Speed, agility, strength, body size, intelligence, etc. What is the scouts primary concern with linemen?:shades:

Well you'll get to see in spades next season. Where ever Joe Thomas and Levi Brown end up they'll always be linked together. Thomas is by all accounts the better athlete. Brown has some baby fat on him, but may well end up being the better pick. Once Brown locks on a guy , it's over. Pollack over came the short arms. Robert Gallery could not. The simple answer is leverage. A guy gets his arms locked out with his knees bent, it's pretty much over in terms of pass protection. He can just hurl the guy on by the QB in the pocket. On the other side of the ball you saw every game Mario improving that aspect of his game at the end of the saeson. Getting the OTs off of his body by extending his arms and getting a superior push on them, he could Controll them. Both JT and Brown have elite feet for big men. There are no garuntees in the draft. What I will gaurentee is that if Levi is our pick, he is your day one strter at OLT. And Spencer, will have a very difficlut time unseating him at OLT in '08. And we'll have our book end OTs for ten years. Then...you guys can have all the fill offensive lineman and all of the pretty skill guys you want. I won't squawk.

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 12:38 PM
Please Evolve...I understood where you were going and wasn't picking on you at all. I agree with Luke. I'm just frustrated at this lack hitting a guy in five years. Yes, I do hope Spencer comes back at 100% opening day. Yes he looked like a fine prospect who we were quite fortunate to hit in the third round with a sixty five pick. But if you're going to hap hazardly leave the situation to chance and hope, Like the 610 guys are currently doing, that is where they loose me. So Brown is not Bosselli, Pace or Ogden. So what ? He will be the moment we draft him the best OLT prospect who has a chnace to actually see the feild we've ever had. I think after satuarday he will go from a big reach in some folks minds to "I hope the guy gets by the first seven". I hope Miami doesn't jump with Minnesota so we can get the guy." I think he's that good. He's better than McNeil or Jamaal Brown. And for sure he's the best we've ever had a legitamte shot at getting. Why not ? We saw even though they were beat up, the formula to beating the Colts the last game. What is so wrong with infusing more tallent there if you have the oportunity to make that better ? Baring Petterson ro Jamarus Russel falling to them, it's a no brainer pick to me. Even with those two there on the board when we pick, I wuoldn't dismiss it out of hand. We've never done that, pick an o-lineman high. Maybe it's just time we go get our all pro tackle prospect this draft. They, as we've seen for five seasons, don't grow on trees. And people don't let the good ones walk.

Meloy
02-21-2007, 12:39 PM
Well you'll get to see in spades next season. Where ever Joe Thomas and Levi Brown end up they'll always be linked together. Thomas is by all accounts the better athlete. Brown has some baby fat on him, but may well end up being the better pick. Once Brown locks on a guy , it's over. Pollack over came the short arms. Robert Gallery could not. The simple answer is leverage. A guy gets his arms locked out with his knees bent, it's pretty much over in terms of pass protection. He can just hurl the guy on by the QB in the pocket. On the other side of the ball you saw every game Mario improving that aspect of his game at the end of the saeson. Getting the OTs off of his body by extending his arms and getting a superior push on them, he could Controll them. Both JT and Brown have elite feet for big men. There are no garuntees in the draft. What I will gaurentee is that if Levi is our pick, he is your day one strter at OLT. And Spencer, will have a very difficlut time unseating him at OLT in '08. And we'll have our book end OTs for ten years. Then...you guys can have all the fill offensive lineman and all of the pretty skill guys you want. I won't squawk.I can only imagine that the Texans will study every blocking play Brown had in college and then compare that DE to those he should face in NFL. Ifr Brown looks as if he is real deal, then draft him @ 8 no matter if a 'reach'. We need a LT imo more than a rb. That is why I went with Joe T. I like Peterson but LT should be priority IF we can seal that spot for a few years.

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 12:57 PM
The way I interpret the blog is that there has been improvement over what we knew beforehand. The word on the street before was that he might not possibly play again. Now LZ has him playing...possibly in the preseason.

Yeah well we all see there what is written there. You can spin it any way you want but the key clause in there is the: " At some point this season." In other words they still don't know. And as Old Miss was tring to point out, this is hardly anything "new". Basically the eight pick comes down to taking a franchise back if he's there, taking the DE or DT prosppect, a saftey ....only because the corners this year are down, or making very sure you have OLT covered by a very high end prospect who can come in day one and plug and play at OLT. Rathers, I'd like to see Detroit pass on the lock at OLT and give us a shot at the move up. If you wanna keep all of your picks, lock down the position for '07, the next best solution is infusing your rooster with another high end young propsect who will play for us for ten years. That way it doesn't matter if Spencer 's knee is alright or not. When he comes back just gives us a nice problem at the o-line for a change. Not must we start the swing tackle but arguments on this board who is the better start at OLT, Brown or Spencer. That would be a refreshing change for us for sure.

El Tejano
02-21-2007, 01:39 PM
I thought I'd shed some light on this.

Charlie Casserly will not be picking for us this year. I am more than certain that after working with Kubiak for several years, Rick Smith will make a wise choice in picking OL. Matter of fact Kubes did pretty good with the last two he picked.

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 01:47 PM
There is no debating this point. That much is fairly obvious.

They have also not done what was needed to build a solid LB corps, Defensive backfield, solid running game, and we still don't have a QB.

Have they trie to do these things. Sure. But that depends on what your defenition of "try" is. I think that if the Colts can win the Superbowl with draft picks on their line, so can we. IMO, they have tried to build an O-line, it just hasn't worked out. You may not think they've put enough effort into it, but I don't think they've put great effort into anything.

The whole point of the thread is to sooth our fears about Spencers injury issues. I mean we're talking about whether or not, if ever, how much blood flow is going to get back into the cratledge of the knee again. And they don't know. Yeah well, I'd say since we've squander a QB prospect behind the front offices fromer efforts there, that o-line is the critical need. You wanna argue with me that all day can come in here and post 400 attemtps, 25 touch downs, and a shot at the play offs, behind our current guys and a chance on getting Spencer back, I then tell you ....when pigs fly. All you're doing with that kind of move,... gambling on your day two guys, is setting All Day up for another David Carr Scenario. I mean in my book the question begs to be asked how many times do you have to stick your hand in the pot of boiling beans before ya get it there ? It doesn't work. We'll get burned once again. I can stand it as long as you can. Limp along with the tallent we currently have, sets us up fine for the '08 draft. Just be a change going into the saeson with more than faith manning our o-line. Just saying there lance Z and the 610 guys.

HOU-TEX
02-21-2007, 01:49 PM
I think it's important in the eyes of scouts. That's part of the reason Eric Winston lasted as long as he did in last year's draft. The prototype guy is huge, with long arms, quick feet, nasty demeanor, and a Rhodes scholar. And you can find a guy who has all that, and he can still bust (Robert Gallery). Scouting is hard.

I wouldn't argue with that.

IMO, #8 is too high for Brown. Unless we trade back, I'd leave him alone. I'd go defense if AP isn't available at #8. I'd pick up some Oline in the mid-rounds.

I just caught a small stint of the Senior Bowl practices on NFL network and noticed they were speaking highly of Kahlil(sp?). IIRC, didn't USC run zone blocking? He might be someone to look at in the 2nd.

real
02-21-2007, 02:02 PM
The whole point of the thread is to sooth our fears about Spencers injury issues. I mean we're talking about whether or not, if ever, how much blood flow is going to get back into the cratledge of the knee again. And they don't know. Yeah well, I'd say since we've squander a QB prospect behind the front offices fromer efforts there, that o-line is the critical need. You wanna argue with me that all day can come in here and post 400 attemtps, 25 touch downs, and a shot at the play offs, behind our current guys and a chance on getting Spencer back, I then tell you ....when pigs fly. All you're doing with that kind of move,... gambling on your day two guys, is setting All Day up for another David Carr Scenario. I mean in my book the question begs to be asked how many times do you have to stick your hand in the pot of boiling beans before ya get it there ? It doesn't work. We'll get burned once again. I can stand it as long as you can. Limp along with the tallent we currently have, sets us up fine for the '08 draft. Just be a change going into the saeson with more than faith manning our o-line. Just saying there lance Z and the 610 guys.

Regardless of what we do this off-season we'll have faith manning the O-line. Levi is not a sure thing. No player is a sure thing. I actually wouldn't be terribly upset with a OL in the first because it'd fill a need. I just think we have more presssing needs. I also think that we could get more value out of the pick.

Nawzer
02-21-2007, 02:11 PM
Even with a healthy Spencer I would like to see us add more quality depth at both tackle positions. But it's good to know that Spencer is doing well and him being healthy but more importantly productive at the left tackle spot will cure a lot of our problems. Still it's too early and I would like to see the Texans draft or sign a left tackle to compete for that spot.

DocBar
02-21-2007, 03:10 PM
We just have different opinions of players...

Personally I'm not that high on Levi Brown, and I think the only reason he has risen as of late is because someone said so. I don't think he's worth any pick over 15. Even if we traded back, I'd look more towards adding an explosive defensive player or running back. I think those are two things we need more than a 1st rd. LT at this point.

That's a valid point. There seems to be a VERY wide gap between #1(Joe Thomas) and #2(so far Levi Brown). Bandwagons being what they are, I'm sure someone else rise

threetoedpete
02-21-2007, 03:56 PM
That's a valid point. There seems to be a VERY wide gap between #1(Joe Thomas) and #2(so far Levi Brown). Bandwagons being what they are, I'm sure someone else rise

Well Mark Slereth Just disagreed with you guys about thrity minutes ago. I dunno who else it's going to take. ? For some, Lombardi could rise back up out of the ground and it wouldn't be enough. Draft..all Day. You're going to see it in spades next season. Don't come crawling back here cryin in october when've got what you wanted and it doesn't work again.

The only valid point in those two post is there are a lot of contray posters on this borad. The only wide gap we got is between the ears with some folks.

Scooter
02-21-2007, 04:01 PM
BPA people....seriously when are we going to address the line? I will point out again the Jets looked to be in turmoil after last year with Herm Edwards leaving, Curtis martin's future in doubt(still), rookie headcoach...and they draft a Stud LT and Stud C and guess what....they made the playoffs still without the all world offensive threat. I'm going to have to say the solid line play MIGHT have had something to do with it.

i cant believe it took 3 pages for someone to point out the jets, and noone's touched on it since. the jets had the best first round of any team last year and went to the playoffs ... keeping pennington healthy for the first time in his career. they made the playoffs without a decent runningback and a mediocre defense. the chargers revamped their offensive line with 4 new starters and went from 4-12 to 12-4. the down and out teams that turn things around always do so by making major upgrades on the offensive line, and adding a better pass rush. we went big on defense last year with mario & demeco, this year we pull out all the stops to fix the other side of the ball.

getting spencer healthy would be huge and i took that post as great news. the way i understood the situation is the cartilage was either going to grow back or it wasnt. if there's less concern for the cartilage, i'm excited about getting spencer back. IF spencer's ready to go, we start him at left tackle. period. no discussion. spencer at LT. done. we still need to upgrade the other tackle position, right guard (maybe), and center. i'd like AP, i think he's a real stud and would be a good fit (and yall know i'm not big on "skill" players in the first). if he's not there, i'd gladly reach for the best lineman available, and start eyeing interior linemen as early as the second or third round. the best thing we could do would be to throw a mountain of cash at eric steinbach and draft the best tackle possible in the first round. O-line fixed for now.

i've been preaching it for 5 years now, we NEED to fix the offensive line for this team to be successful. we've yet to have a winning season and i'm still preaching ... maybe this year.

real
02-21-2007, 04:07 PM
Well Mark Slereth Just disagreed with you guys about thrity minutes ago. I dunno who else it's going to take. ? For some, Lombardi could rise back up out of the ground and it wouldn't be enough. Draft..all Day. You're going to see it in spades next season. Don't come crawling back here cryin in october when've got what you wanted and it doesn't work again.

The only valid point in those two post is there are a lot of contray posters on this borad. The only wide gap we got is between the ears with some folks.

If I make judgement about a player it's because I think I've seen enough of said player to do so. If I haven't seen a player play, should I take on an analyst opinion as if it's my own ? If I have seen a player play, but an analyst disagrees with my opinion should I then change it because an "expert" doesn't agree ?

I could care less what anyone else thinks, and I hope that you and evryone else would feel the same way, and not come on to the boards and just regurgitate what someone else has said. Otherwise you are nothing more than a walking, talking advertisement with no opinion of your own.

Please forgive me and anyone else who has ever formulated their own opinion and not just "gone with the flow" like you have suggested we do.

real
02-21-2007, 04:10 PM
i cant believe it took 3 pages for someone to point out the jets, and noone's touched on it since. the jets had the best first round of any team last year and went to the playoffs ... keeping pennington healthy for the first time in his career. they made the playoffs without a decent runningback and a mediocre defense. the chargers revamped their offensive line with 4 new starters and went from 4-12 to 12-4. the down and out teams that turn things around always do so by making major upgrades on the offensive line, and adding a better pass rush. we went big on defense last year with mario & demeco, this year we pull out all the stops to fix the other side of the ball.

getting spencer healthy would be huge and i took that post as great news. the way i understood the situation is the cartilage was either going to grow back or it wasnt. if there's less concern for the cartilage, i'm excited about getting spencer back. IF spencer's ready to go, we start him at left tackle. period. no discussion. spencer at LT. done. we still need to upgrade the other tackle position, right guard (maybe), and center. i'd like AP, i think he's a real stud and would be a good fit (and yall know i'm not big on "skill" players in the first). if he's not there, i'd gladly reach for the best lineman available, and start eyeing interior linemen as early as the second or third round. the best thing we could do would be to throw a mountain of cash at eric steinbach and draft the best tackle possible in the first round. O-line fixed for now.

i've been preaching it for 5 years now, we NEED to fix the offensive line for this team to be successful. we've yet to have a winning season and i'm still preaching ... maybe this year.

IMO, D'Brick and Magold, as rookies, didn't have nearly as much to do with the success of the Jets as Pennington did.

Scooter
02-21-2007, 04:14 PM
IMO, D'Brick and Magold, as rookies, didn't have nearly as much to do with the success of the Jets as Pennington did.

that's pretty contradictory seeing as pennington's success as a quarterback is directly tied to those two guys. if they fail, he fails ... no grey area here. if they perform, chad has a chance to prove himself. chad was a major factor in the success of the jets, so their two new linemen must've performed pretty well.

real
02-21-2007, 04:18 PM
that's pretty contradictory seeing as pennington's success as a quarterback is directly tied to those two guys. if they fail, he fails ... no grey area here. if they perform, chad has a chance to prove himself. chad was a major factor in the success of the jets, so their two new linemen must've performed pretty well.

I really dislike the attitude on this board that a QB's ability to succeed is directly tied to how his O-line performs. It's true in a sense but you guys take it to the extreme as if the QB is just a puppet and the O-lineman are the string masters.

But if that's your view on things then so be it.

I'm not going to argue you on that because it's pretty much pointless.

DocBar
02-21-2007, 04:21 PM
Well Mark Slereth Just disagreed with you guys about thrity minutes ago. I dunno who else it's going to take. ? For some, Lombardi could rise back up out of the ground and it wouldn't be enough. Draft..all Day. You're going to see it in spades next season. Don't come crawling back here cryin in october when've got what you wanted and it doesn't work again.

The only valid point in those two post is there are a lot of contray posters on this borad. The only wide gap we got is between the ears with some folks. Ease up, Petey. I'm not in the "draft P" bandwagon. I'm for BPA at #8 or see what kind of trade you can get on draft day. I also think OL needs some MAJOR attention. Moreso than RB.

real
02-21-2007, 04:23 PM
By the way, D'Brick allowed 10 sacks this year.


That's poor, just in case you didn't know.

Scooter
02-21-2007, 04:24 PM
I really dislike the attitude on this board that a QB's ability to succeed is directly tied to how his O-line performs. It's true in a sense but you guys take it to the extreme as if the QB is just a puppet and the O-lineman are the string masters.

But if that's your view on things then so be it.

I'm not going to argue you on that because it's pretty much pointless.

it's a TEAM sport. the quarterback is the puppet of the offensive line blocking, the receivers running tight routes and getting seperation, and the coach's playcalling. if any one of them fails, the quarterback fails. same with every other position ... if one part fails, it directly affects the other 10 players.

real
02-21-2007, 04:26 PM
it's a TEAM sport. the quarterback is the puppet of the offensive line blocking, the receivers running tight routes and getting seperation, and the coach's playcalling. if any one of them fails, the quarterback fails. same with every other position ... if one part fails, it directly affects the other 10 players.

This is one of the worst lies I've heard today.

Kaiser Toro
02-21-2007, 04:29 PM
This is one of the worst lies I've heard today.

Lie? Maybe you do not agree with his opinion, but I do not see any lies here.

real
02-21-2007, 04:31 PM
Lie? Maybe you do not agree with his opinion, but I do not see any lies here.

if any one of them fails, the quarterback fails.



That's not true, so therefore it's a lie.

real
02-21-2007, 04:33 PM
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/tmleaders.asp?year=Q&type=NFL+Passing&rank=041&Submit=Go\

Here's a list of team sacks allowed.


There are more than a few teams with slightly fewer or slightly more sacks who's QB's had more success than Carr this year.

Scooter
02-21-2007, 04:34 PM
This is one of the worst lies I've heard today.

jake plummer in arizona. jake plummer in denver.

edgerrin james in arizona. edgerrin james in indianapolis.

the common factor? arizona's pitiful offensive line directly affected the performance of good players who excelled behind strong lines.


as for it being a lie, how so? if the line fails the quarterback gets sacked. if the receiver's route is bad, it's an incomplete pass or worse. poor playcalling leads the quarterback directly into the defense. hell maybe i'm wrong, if so please explain.

Scooter
02-21-2007, 04:35 PM
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/tmleaders.asp?year=Q&type=NFL+Passing&rank=041&Submit=Go\

Here's a list of team sacks allowed.


There are more than a few teams with slightly fewer or slightly more sacks who's QB's had more success than Carr this year.

nobody mentioned carr.

real
02-21-2007, 04:38 PM
nobody mentioned carr.



I just used Carr because this is Houston, and we are the Texans.

Honestly you can look up and down that list and do the same thing.

real
02-21-2007, 04:42 PM
as for it being a lie, how so? if the line fails the quarterback gets sacked.

Yeah you're right...


I have never seen a lineman miss a block and a QB avoid pressure and make a throw...

I have never seen a QB, avoid the rush step up in the pocket and deliver a ball just as he was getting hit.

I have never seen a QB break a tackle.

I have never seen a QB pump fake a defender to get him into the air only to run past him.

I have never seen a QB's primary reciever run the wrong route, and just check to his secondary target.

I have never seen the play break down and a QB "make something out of nothing"



All QB's need stellar O-lines and should not have to avoid pressure from time to time or be forced to step up into the pocket occasionally.

You're right and I'm done.

Scooter
02-21-2007, 04:45 PM
that sacks list looks pretty accurate to me ... there's some fluctuation, but for the most part the teams with the best blocking were the teams with the best records. since it's the texans, we've been in the bottom of that list for all but one year and have no winning record. our best season we allowed our fewest sacks.

since you're picking out singularities, just add "USUALLY" before each of my scenarios.

real
02-21-2007, 04:47 PM
Scooter.....

In all seriousness, I honestly believe David Carr has blinded a lot of Texan fans on what a good QB looks like. No offense to David, Hulk75 or anybody that's close to Carr, but he played poorly this season and it wasn't because of our O-line. No they aren't great, but I can almost gaurantee that a change at the QB position will make you look at our line differently.

Kaiser Toro
02-21-2007, 04:49 PM
Please take this to PM, piggyback on another thread or start a new one. Let's get back on topic regarding Spencer.

real
02-21-2007, 04:50 PM
that sacks list looks pretty accurate to me ... there's some fluctuation, but for the most part the teams with the best blocking were the teams with the best records. since it's the texans, we've been in the bottom of that list for all but one year and have no winning record. our best season we allowed our fewest sacks.

since you're picking out singularities, just add "USUALLY" before each of my scenarios.

Forget the records, because then you have to take into account what the whole team did, offense and defense.

If we are just talking about the affect that it has on a particular offensive players, then I'd say that your assumption was slightly innacurate.

Stats don't tell the whole story, but that seems to be the norm around here by which we judge the O-line.

Please_Evolve
02-21-2007, 04:51 PM
Please Evolve...I understood where you were going and wasn't picking on you at all. I agree with Luke. I'm just frustrated at this lack hitting a guy in five years. Yes, I do hope Spencer comes back at 100% opening day. Yes he looked like a fine prospect who we were quite fortunate to hit in the third round with a sixty five pick. But if you're going to hap hazardly leave the situation to chance and hope, Like the 610 guys are currently doing, that is where they loose me. So Brown is not Bosselli, Pace or Ogden. So what ? He will be the moment we draft him the best OLT prospect who has a chnace to actually see the feild we've ever had. I think after satuarday he will go from a big reach in some folks minds to "I hope the guy gets by the first seven". I hope Miami doesn't jump with Minnesota so we can get the guy." I think he's that good. He's better than McNeil or Jamaal Brown. And for sure he's the best we've ever had a legitamte shot at getting. Why not ? We saw even though they were beat up, the formula to beating the Colts the last game. What is so wrong with infusing more tallent there if you have the oportunity to make that better ? Baring Petterson ro Jamarus Russel falling to them, it's a no brainer pick to me. Even with those two there on the board when we pick, I wuoldn't dismiss it out of hand. We've never done that, pick an o-lineman high. Maybe it's just time we go get our all pro tackle prospect this draft. They, as we've seen for five seasons, don't grow on trees. And people don't let the good ones walk.

Sorry i was totally agreeing with you not on just the LT issue but the whole line. I think Brown will have an impressive enough combine to at least sooth over the BPA people. I just honestly don't really agree with the BPA point of view usually. I mean is X guy the BPA ...maybe but is he at a position that we can afford to adress later in the draft or FA? I think he'll make a solid LT and like i think we both agree on even with Spencer comes back healthy i can deal with the problem of where to put Spencer as opposed to...omg what are going to do about our LT spot.

Hoiw do you feel pete about Brown and Kalil one and two?.... I think i'd piss myself i'd be so happy

keyfro
02-21-2007, 05:14 PM
bottom line is that we still need o-line help...whether that's free agents or draft i prefer both

i was thinking about this scenario last night let me know what ya'll think

with peterson going to the browns at either the 3rd or 4th pick we trade back with buffalo...we get their 1st and 2nd rounder they get our 1st rounder and zach weigert (they need more o-lineman too)...we also get a 4th rounder for carr from minnesota

our draft goes like this:

1st. marshawn lynch RB
2ndA. aaron ross CB
2ndB. ryan kalil C
3rd. kevin kolb QB
4thA. david harris LB
4thB. doug free OT
5th. joel filani WR
6th. brian daniels G
7th. keyunta dawson DE/OLB

in free agency we target a FS like deon grant move cc brown to SS and have him and glenn earl battle it out during training camp...we also pick up some quality guys like sean mahan, daniel graham, and dwayne white

Lucky
02-21-2007, 06:03 PM
1st. marshawn lynch RB
2ndA. aaron ross CB
2ndB. ryan kalil C
3rd. kevin kolb QB
4thA. david harris LB
4thB. doug free OT
5th. joel filani WR
6th. brian daniels G
7th. keyunta dawson DE/OLB

Think you've got enough Red Raiders there, keyfro? How about picking up Gabe Hall and Brock Stratton as undrafted free agents? :)

Actually, Hall and Stratton would be good pickups. :idea:

dirty steve
02-21-2007, 06:56 PM
so would Spencer have figured better at left guard even if he hadn't suffered the leg injury?

Scooter
02-21-2007, 07:04 PM
so would Spencer have figured better at left guard even if he hadn't suffered the leg injury?

no. IMO spencer's a perfect left tackle and should stay there. he wasnt much of a run blocker from what i saw and with his unique mix of strength and quickness is ideal for the tackle spot.

Navy_Chris
02-21-2007, 07:39 PM
so would Spencer have figured better at left guard even if he hadn't suffered the leg injury?

Whether Spencer's healthy or not, we NEED depth at the LT position.

And, since I'm apparently the only guy here that wants to give up a couple 1st rounders for the chance to sign Freeney, I'll just concede and give you this pre-Combine Mock Draft:

1 - Levi Brown OT Penn State
2 - Kenny Irons RB Auburn
3 - Victor Abiamiri DE Notre Dame
4a - Gerald Alexander S Boise State
4b - Michael Coe CB Alabama State (via Minnesota for David Carr)
5 - Rory Johnson OLB Mississippi
6 - David Ball WR New Hampshire
7 - Conrad Bolston DT Maryland

Undrafted FA's I like:

Jackie Battle - FB Houston
Roman Fry - OG Clemson
Luke Getsy - QB Akron
Kyle Tatum - OT Alabama
Gordon Ely-Kelso - P Georgia
Tyrone Timmons - WR Miss. Valley State
Stephen Harris - DT Florida

Honoring Earl 34
02-21-2007, 07:48 PM
so would Spencer have figured better at left guard even if he hadn't suffered the leg injury?

You know ... Kubiak said Spencer would have been to the offense what Ryans was to the defense if he could have palyed the whole year .

Thats pretty lofty praise . I hope he reaches his potential ... for all of our sakes .

Scooter
02-21-2007, 08:12 PM
if spencer's able to get and stay healthy, i've already penciled him into the HOF. we need this guy on the field. not exactly kubiak praise, but i believe he's that good. i'm not sold on winston starting on the other side yet though, we need to focus on right tackle and one good interior guy. i do like that winston would be able to backup both tackle positions. with spencer, we've shored up the left side, and weary might prove to be a capable guard. flanagan's a bandaid and his legs are all but gone, so i'd really target eric steinbach who could play basically any interior position. eric would also give us the option of shuffling the interior to get weary at center. seriously ... spencer healthy, steinbach, and a first day offensive tackle could really make our offense. we're thin as far as depth though, so i'll say something i hate ... we should probably keep mckinney. weigert and salaam would be my first cuts.

HJam72
02-21-2007, 08:39 PM
I wouldn't mind spending the first 4 picks on O-line and DBs. I really wouldn't.

V Man
02-21-2007, 08:54 PM
I wouldn't mind spending the first 4 picks on O-line and DBs. I really wouldn't.

Like this :winky:
Safety, O-line, CB, O-line

Goldeagle
02-21-2007, 08:57 PM
i'm prayin he can come back healthy...my concern is with his knee is that there is still probably going to be some arthritis in that knee...how long can he play...do we need him to change position on the o-line to allow him a better chance at success...what about this change

? at left tackle
pitts at left guard
weary at center
spencer at right guard
winston at right tackle


Leanord Davis at LT

Silver Oak
02-21-2007, 09:30 PM
Hoiw do you feel pete about Brown and Kalil one and two?.... I think i'd piss myself i'd be so happy


As long as they got the best available DB or DT in the 3rd, I would be wet also.

Scooter
02-22-2007, 12:47 AM
I wouldn't mind spending the first 4 picks on O-line and DBs. I really wouldn't.

wouldnt hurt my feelings in the least, although i'd trade one of the db's for a linebacker. i'm comfortable with faggins and roc, provided we finally get a centerfielder. i'm not very comfortable with wong, greenwood, and orr though. the best drafts are always ugly. last year we had an unheard of draft and it went DE, LB, OL, OL, TE. ugly, but insanely effective.

the jets also had an ugly but great draft ... OL, OL, QB, LB, SS.

keyfro
02-22-2007, 05:47 PM
the thing about faggins is he would excell as a zone CB...like nick harper or charles tillman in the tampa 2 scheme...these guys don't have the speed to keep up with speed receivers but they can tackle well...they can bump at the line...the only problem is we don't really run a zone coverage and with dunta it's understandable why we wouldn't...but if faggins is gonna stick at CB we need a solid FS to put to his side every snap

CT CSTM
02-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Please take this to PM, piggyback on another thread or start a new one. Let's get back on topic regarding Spencer.


Spence is kicking butt in his rehab, he's lifting, running(on the ground not the pool btw) and getting stronger everyday. You guys do remember how he got his "Big Nasty" nickname dont ya? The kids a fighter, his only mindset is that he's running out on the field next year with all the other starters,,,he says his knee doesn't hurt and never has,,,he was actually shocked about the article in the chronicle saying he had knee problems,,,,he was glad to be informed of that!:shades: Take the reports and all that how you guys want, there is an optimistic and a pessimistic view on everything, we're just fortunate that Spencer has the optimistic one,,,

CowboysTexansFan
02-22-2007, 09:23 PM
Thanks a lot, man. I was hoping you'd post. Please give the Big Nasty my regards. I hope to see him back on the field opening day as our starting left tackle!

:redtowel:

SAMURAITEXAN
02-22-2007, 10:19 PM
Spence is kicking butt in his rehab, he's lifting, running(on the ground not the pool btw) and getting stronger everyday. You guys do remember how he got his "Big Nasty" nickname dont ya? The kids a fighter, his only mindset is that he's running out on the field next year with all the other starters,,,he says his knee doesn't hurt and never has,,,he was actually shocked about the article in the chronicle saying he had knee problems,,,,he was glad to be informed of that!:shades: Take the reports and all that how you guys want, there is an optimistic and a pessimistic view on everything, we're just fortunate that Spencer has the optimistic one,,,

Thanks for your post. Please send my regards. I just can't wait to see healthy Spencer on the field again.

painekiller
02-23-2007, 12:36 AM
When Spence come back healthy the whole team gets better. I am so sorry he missed the 15 weeks of practice and game reps. OH well, time to get it done on the field.

aj.
02-23-2007, 04:16 AM
Kubiak's words last night were that he has a "better than 50-50 chance of making it back" but he still has a lot of tough rehab in front of him. At least the coach sounded somewhat optimistic.

Spled
02-23-2007, 09:19 AM
That would be great if Spence and Dom Williams came back.

nunusguy
02-23-2007, 09:41 AM
Kubiak's words last night were that he has a "better than 50-50 chance of making it back" but he still has a lot of tough rehab in front of him. At least the coach sounded somewhat optimistic.
That is encouraging news, because the HC is more or less the proverbial
"horses mouth" in this situation. He would have direct contact with both CS
personally and his medical pros.

Ole Miss Texan
02-23-2007, 09:50 AM
Spence is kicking butt in his rehab, he's lifting, running(on the ground not the pool btw) and getting stronger everyday. You guys do remember how he got his "Big Nasty" nickname dont ya? The kids a fighter, his only mindset is that he's running out on the field next year with all the other starters,,,he says his knee doesn't hurt and never has,,,he was actually shocked about the article in the chronicle saying he had knee problems,,,,he was glad to be informed of that!:shades: Take the reports and all that how you guys want, there is an optimistic and a pessimistic view on everything, we're just fortunate that Spencer has the optimistic one,,,

Can i ask how you know this information? I'm not saying that in a condescending way at all, i'm just curious.

This would be great news indeed. We need him soo bad. Not that the injury was bad enough but he missed all those games and practices. that's sux. just think how much he'd be improved by next season if he could have been playing all last season! It's basically like he's a rookie again but is more familiar with our team by 'reading' up and seeing some practices. at least he's familiar with the coaches too.

What a great...GREAT 3rd round pick up. When i look back and think about the draft I just can't get over it. I hope we have another incredible one this year!

CT CSTM
02-23-2007, 11:13 AM
Can i ask how you know this information? I'm not saying that in a condescending way at all, i'm just curious.

This would be great news indeed. We need him soo bad. Not that the injury was bad enough but he missed all those games and practices. that's sux. just think how much he'd be improved by next season if he could have been playing all last season! It's basically like he's a rookie again but is more familiar with our team by 'reading' up and seeing some practices. at least he's familiar with the coaches too.

What a great...GREAT 3rd round pick up. When i look back and think about the draft I just can't get over it. I hope we have another incredible one this year!

We're personal friends,,,

texans83
02-23-2007, 11:25 AM
We're personal friends,,,

Well that is great news and I hope he will be running out there opening game with all the starters, him being one of them!!!!:mario:

cj5776
02-23-2007, 11:29 AM
Why does the coach only say better than 50-50? I guess that is just his point of view considering the rehap is involved. Maybe he is careful not to say too much because of the DD situation last year.

yourfavoritetexan42
02-23-2007, 11:47 AM
How huge would it be for him to start opening day and pickup where he left off.