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View Full Version : Not ready to give up on Carr


Andrew6
02-20-2007, 12:07 AM
Carr has a lot of potential, and I think he'll only get better with time. While yeah he did have a piss poor season it did look like one of the better seasons i've seen from him. Get David a decent line and a good running back and you've got one of the best qb's in the league.

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2007, 12:11 AM
Carr has a lot of potential, and I think he'll only get better with time. While yeah he did have a piss poor season it did look like one of the better seasons i've seen from him. Get David a decent line and a good running back and you've got one of the best qb's in the league.

The average NFL career is 3.8 years. How long do we continue talking about potential, at a premium price, beyond the career expectancy of someone who touches the ball on every single offensive play?

Andrew6
02-20-2007, 12:14 AM
someone just needs to give him a jump start, kinda like in that dodge nitro commerical surely that will pick him up

SamuraiSword
02-20-2007, 12:20 AM
someone just needs to give him a jump start, kinda like in that dodge nitro commerical surely that will pick him up

Kubiak tried to give him a jump start. Do you remember when Kubiak benched Carr?? That was suppose to fire him up and that didn't even do it. Its time for a change...... :bubble:

Andrew6
02-20-2007, 12:22 AM
ahh poor guy just needs a hug

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-20-2007, 12:23 AM
You're right. We need to give him another 5 years before we can fairly evaluate him. :sarcasm:

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2007, 12:24 AM
ahh poor guy just needs a hug

Carr gets to many hugs. Tough love in another address may be what he needs to realize the potential.

SESupergenius
02-20-2007, 12:48 AM
The average NFL career is 3.8 years. How long do we continue talking about potential, at a premium price, beyond the career expectancy of someone who touches the ball on every single offensive play?

As long as it takes to get an offensive line where we can run the ball effectively and have some continuity. Then we need a couple of playmakers that can run after the catch and get after the ball. Show me this and then we can start in on the QB.

Andrew6
02-20-2007, 12:51 AM
As long as it takes to get an offensive line where we can run the ball effectively and have some continuity. Then we need a couple of playmakers that can run after the catch and get after the ball. Show me this and then we can start in on the QB.

amen, I'd like to see him play but not just given the job to. Let him compete just like everyone else. If he is the best then let him start. I also agree that it is time to bring in a young qb from the draft and let him sit out a season and watch and learn the system.

Mr. White
02-20-2007, 07:48 AM
I think that the mere fact that he's getting special treatment from the organization is enough reason to turn him loose.

It isn't good for David and it isn't good for the rest of the team.

Marcus
02-20-2007, 08:22 AM
There's just too many hard feelings. There are way too many people that blame Carr for everything that has gone wrong, and there are way too many people that won't blame him for anything that has gone wrong.

Carr, the Texans, and the fans, need to cut the ties ands move on.

Whichever team that Carr eventually ends up with, I personally think it would downright hilarious if Carr came back to Reliant Stadium and lit us up, like Joey Harrington did to the Lions on Thanksgiving day, but the move has to be made first.

I've been a Carr fan from day one, and admittedly have made too many excuses for him, but for the good of the team, and for Carr and his family . . this divorce needs to happen.

Texans Horror
02-20-2007, 08:24 AM
I just don't like the QBs that are out there right now. I'm not seeing a long-term solution. So keep him for another year and see if a better qb comes out of the draft next year.

Marcus
02-20-2007, 08:34 AM
I just don't like the QBs that are out there right now. I'm not seeing a long-term solution. So keep him for another year and see if a better qb comes out of the draft next year.

There doesn't need to be a long term solution. But for many people, Carr symbolically represents what is wrong with the Texans. If Carr is kept for another year, then that would represent to a lot of fans, rightly or wrongly, that the Texans aren't serious about correcting what is "really" wrong with the team.

The situation with Carr has degenerated to the point where keeping him on the team would be public relations problem. Too much resentment, too many hard feelings, too much damage.

OrangeCountyTexansFan
02-20-2007, 09:32 AM
I just don't like the QBs that are out there right now. I'm not seeing a long-term solution. So keep him for another year and see if a better qb comes out of the draft next year.
Well, I agree IF we can get a running back that is good enough to take the pressure off of the passing game.
Lynch, Lynch Lynch! (Because AP will not be there by the eighth pick in the first round.)

Lucky
02-20-2007, 09:38 AM
The situation with Carr has degenerated to the point where keeping him on the team would be public relations problem. Too much resentment, too many hard feelings, too much damage.
I think that's true, for the most part. But if they continue to lose after dumping Carr, the fans will just point the finger somewhere else. They will never be satisfied until the Texans win. That's the bottom line, and frankly I'm in that category. I'm tired of the excuses. Do what you have to do and just win, baby.

TexanFanInCC
02-20-2007, 09:51 AM
Carr has a lot of potential, and I think he'll only get better with time. While yeah he did have a piss poor season it did look like one of the better seasons i've seen from him. Get David a decent line and a good running back and you've got one of the best qb's in the league.

yeah and while we are at it, he should get more WR's. i think we have heard these excuses for too long. not every great QB had the best offensive line, the best WR's, or the best running game. case in point: drew brees. didnt have the well known recievers but he made them into well known recievers. he did the same thing in san diego. me made a name for reche caldwell and antonio gates. he also knows how to use billy miller from time to time.

our line is not as bad as people make it out to be. people are too quick to throw the fault at the o-line for not blocking for carr.

TexanFanInCC
02-20-2007, 09:56 AM
I just don't like the QBs that are out there right now. I'm not seeing a long-term solution. So keep him for another year and see if a better qb comes out of the draft next year.

yeah there isnt a long term solution, but even if it is a short term fix to help us win some games while we slowly develop the QB of the future that we draft, then im all for it. i think plummer gives us a better chance to win than carr. thats just my opinion. plummer went to the AFC championship game under kubiak. im not expecting plummer to be that good, but he would still be better than carr was last season. you can keep plummer long enough to develop a young qb, perhaps kolb.

i think us texans fans want to win right now. plummer isnt a long term fix, but he can suffice long enough for us to develop someone that can step in perhaps midseason or by 08 and be able to sustain some winning.

Let's try this again
02-20-2007, 10:17 AM
Carr has a lot of potential, and I think he'll only get better with time. While yeah he did have a piss poor season it did look like one of the better seasons i've seen from him. Get David a decent line and a good running back and you've got one of the best qb's in the league.

Maybe we need to give the O-Line and the RB's a decent QB:stirpot:

Texans Front Row Crew
02-20-2007, 10:18 AM
Carr has a lot of potential, ... Get David a decent line and a good running back and you've got one of the best qb's in the league.


Signed,

Ryan Leaf & Tim Couch

powerfuldragon
02-20-2007, 10:19 AM
Carr has a lot of potential, and I think he'll only get better with time. While yeah he did have a piss poor season it did look like one of the better seasons i've seen from him. Get David a decent line and a good running back and you've got one of the best qb's in the league.
i hope other teams think like you do.

QB75
02-20-2007, 10:19 AM
Maybe we need to give the O-Line and the RB's a decent QB:stirpot:

Who knows? It's probably some of both. Hope he gets another year!

Double Barrel
02-20-2007, 10:39 AM
David Carr is the Texans starting QB. This is my mindset until we hear otherwise from the Texans front office.

kcwilson
02-20-2007, 11:58 AM
David Carr is the Texans starting QB. This is my mindset until we hear otherwise from the Texans front office.

Would this qualify as "otherwise"?

Rick Smith is posturing his stance on Carr in a trade...
http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/1171867247155460.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

Texian
02-20-2007, 12:05 PM
Would this qualify as "otherwise"?

Rick Smith is posturing his stance on Carr in a trade...
http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/1171867247155460.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

That is just the same internet ramblings that have been making the rounds this last week. The actual words coming out of McNair and Smith's mouths indicate to me that David will be here next year.

Double Barrel
02-20-2007, 12:07 PM
Apparently, Houston quarterback David Carr can be had for a price. Texans General Manager Rick Smith told the Houston Chronicle that a couple of teams have inquired about Carr's availability. The Texans are hoping to get a third-round pick that could escalate to a second-round pick. Carr, 28, has two years remaining on his contract at $5.5 million this year and $6 million in 2008. The Texans are eyeing Denver quarterback Jake Plummer as a potential replacement. Plummer enjoyed the three best seasons of his career when Houston Coach Gary Kubiak served as the Broncos' offensive coordinator. . .

There is nothing in the article that has an official press release from the Texans front office that Carr is not our starting QB, so my statement still stands until we see something official. Until then, I am mentally prepared for David Carr to be our starting QB in 2007. :shades:

Texian
02-20-2007, 12:15 PM
Would this qualify as "otherwise"?

Rick Smith is posturing his stance on Carr in a trade...
http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/1171867247155460.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

Checkout this latest interview with Rick Smith and tell us what you think Smith is saying:

http://sportsblog.abc13.com/2007/02/texans_gm_rick_.html

TwinSisters
02-20-2007, 12:18 PM
Checkout this latest interview with Rick Smith and tell us what you think Smith is saying:

http://sportsblog.abc13.com/2007/02/texans_gm_rick_.html


if he blinks when he talks, he is lying.

Texian
02-20-2007, 12:19 PM
if he blinks when he talks, he is lying.

well I guess that is better than if his lips are moving he is lying...

Texan_Bill
02-20-2007, 12:21 PM
Checkout this latest interview with Rick Smith and tell us what you think Smith is saying:

http://sportsblog.abc13.com/2007/02/texans_gm_rick_.html

This was in a thread the other day, but I will say the same thing.... Smith has a career in politics if he so chooses. He talked for a while without ever really saying anything - one way or the other.

That's not a bad thing necessarily. We need a GM with a good poker face.

Texian
02-20-2007, 12:27 PM
This was in a thread the other day, but I will say the same thing.... Smith has a career in politics if he so chooses. He talked for a while without ever really saying anything - one way or the other.

That's not a bad thing necessarily. We need a GM with a good poker face.

Carr is our starting QB and we want him to get better than he was last year may not be saying anything to you, but me it says Carr is here until further notice.

Spike
02-20-2007, 12:30 PM
I am in Marcus' camp on this one. I think that there is a good chance that Carr can be a better than average QB in this league. After everything that has gone on the past couple of seasons, it would be incredible if Carr could get things together next year and lead this team to a winning season.

However, the reality of the situation is that Carr has become the goat for the franchise and the personification of all the bad decisions that the franchise has made the past couple of years. Whether reality or not, the perception with most fans and media is that he is the problem, so it would take more than marginal improvement or success at this point for the general fan base to get over five losing seasons and missing out on VY. I would love to see him turn it around in Houston, but it is probably best for everyone to cut ties.

All that being said, I don't think we should just trade Carr for a second day pick. As much as we need to move beyond this situation, we shouldn't set the franchise any further back with more bad decisions. If we can get a fair deal, then we should make the move, but we shouldn't just move Carr for the sake of moving him.

We are not one player or one season away from making a competitve run at anything. If we have to live with this situation for another year, you let the defense continue to mature and the o-line gel and make a move next year.

Texan_Bill
02-20-2007, 12:31 PM
Carr is our starting QB and we want him to get better than he was last year may not be saying anything to you, but me it says Carr is here until further notice.

I read it this way.... "Carr is our starting QB and we want him to get better than he was last year"........"because if I (Smith) said anything else but this, I would risk depleting his value even more".

nflnutswife
02-20-2007, 12:38 PM
It would really chap me when Carr gets sent to any other team with a front line and excels. He has the ability, just wait and see. JMO

NFLforher
02-20-2007, 01:43 PM
Kubiak tried to give him a jump start. Do you remember when Kubiak benched Carr?? That was suppose to fire him up and that didn't even do it. Its time for a change...... :bubble:

He looked pretty fired up when they beat the Colts.

Double Barrel
02-20-2007, 01:47 PM
I read it this way.... "Carr is our starting QB and we want him to get better than he was last year"........"because if I (Smith) said anything else but this, I would risk depleting his value even more".

And we have a winner.

Which is why I'm not reading too much into his body language or from rumors/speculation in the media. Nothing official has been released by the Texans FO except that Carr is our starter.

NFLforher
02-20-2007, 01:48 PM
There's just too many hard feelings.


Football decisions are based on hard feelings? :eek:

Marcus
02-20-2007, 02:01 PM
Let me take another stab and approach this issue from a slightly different angle.

It can be safely said that most, not all, I say "most, not all" of the fans, and most, not all, I say "most, not all" of the news media, TV, radio, newspaper, etc. wanted Vince Young to be drafted.

He wasn't. Carr didn't make that decision. Other people did. But that doesn't mean that "most, not all" of the fanbase and media won't take it out on him.

If Carr stays, he's screwed.

hollywood_texan
02-20-2007, 02:07 PM
And we have a winner.

Which is why I'm not reading too much into his body language or from rumors/speculation in the media. Nothing official has been released by the Texans FO except that Carr is our starter.

I suspect all this talk is really to establish a new value for Carr with the Texans and renegotiate his deal at a lower amount with probably some high incentive bonuses for making the playoffs, going deep in the playoffs, Super Bowl, and so on.

This is really a game of chicken in my estimation. What triggered the whole $8 million dollor roster bonus and the three year extension was Carr voiding the last 3 years of his contract. Carr took the extra money but didn't deliver with improved results. I am sure that has been discussed with him directly and that if you take more money, you need to bring more to the table regardless of whatever the situation is.

Now, the Texans are pushing to get things back into market line and playing a little hard ball with Carr. Now, Carr has to decide if he would like to stay or try his luck somewhere else.

Mr teX
02-20-2007, 02:17 PM
Let me take another stab and approach this issue from a slightly different angle.

It can be safely said that most, not all, I say "most, not all" of the fans, and most, not all, I say "most, not all" of the news media, TV, radio, newspaper, etc. wanted Vince Young to be drafted.

He wasn't. Carr didn't make that decision. Other people did. But that doesn't mean that "most, not all" of the fanbase and media won't take it out on him.

If Carr stays, he's screwed.

Unless the offense/team takes off, I think you're right. the guy is still screwed either way though. Anything short of a deep playoff run next year & some fans will still be at his throat. hell, even if the team does well next year, he'll still be walking on eggshells. This team is not being held back from the playoffs solely b/c of him. it's not his fault the organization has pretty much neglected the o-line until last year. Neither is it his fault Capers & co. pulled the trigger on the P-burnt trade, or the horrible drafts. It is what it is, & if i were him, i might want a change of scenery just as bad as some of the fans would like to see me go.

trutxn
02-20-2007, 02:24 PM
The average NFL career is 3.8 years. How long do we continue talking about potential, at a premium price, beyond the career expectancy of someone who touches the ball on every single offensive play?

Who is available that is better than Carr? Plummer doesn't count because he isn't any better.

The Pencil Neck
02-20-2007, 02:40 PM
Who is available that is better than Carr? Plummer doesn't count because he isn't any better.

No one knows because no one can agree on how good Carr is.

Personally, looking at his performance from the end of last year, I don't think he's very good (except possibly in practice). And judging that same performance, I don't think it would be hard to get someone with much less potential that could provide much better performance. I think there are probably several backups in the league that could perform better than he did. I'm hoping for something creative and unexpected from Kubiak and Smith.

Carr might be able to pull a Plunkett and turn in a HOF end of his career, but I really doubt that. That's very, very unusual. I think the beating that Carr has taken in his first few years has left him broken mentally and possibly physically.

And I think Plummer would give us better performance from the position.

IF Kubiak and Smith can improve Carr's performance, then I'm fine with him staying. But if anyone else other than a backup filling in for an injured starter had performed as poorly as Carr performed at the end of the season, he would have been benched. I think we're past the stage where Carr gets a pass on his performance.

Texian
02-20-2007, 03:04 PM
I'm sorry I can't subscribe to the idiocracy of giving Carr $13 million last year, getting rid of him this year, signing Plummer this year and giving him $10 million. The stupidity and insanity of this does not excist in the Texans FO.

El Amigo Invisible
02-20-2007, 03:18 PM
Dear CC and Kubiak,

You look really dumb now dog!


Vince Young

Double Barrel
02-20-2007, 03:44 PM
Unless the offense/team takes off, I think you're right. the guy is still screwed either way though. Anything short of a deep playoff run next year & some fans will still be at his throat. hell, even if the team does well next year, he'll still be walking on eggshells.

I think all will be forgiven if the Texans have a winning record in 2007, and even more so if they grab a playoff berth.

Fans are tired of losing, and Carr is just the current focus of those negative feelings. Last year it was Dom Capers, this year it's David Carr.

Mr teX
02-20-2007, 04:01 PM
I think all will be forgiven if the Texans have a winning record in 2007, and even more so if they grab a playoff berth.
Fans are tired of losing, and Carr is just the current focus of those negative feelings. Last year it was Dom Capers, this year it's David Carr.


maybe so, maybe not, that's why i said that he'd probably still be walking on eggshells even after a winning season or playoff berth b/c the minute he screwed up in the playoff game or there after in subsequent seasons, knowing houston fans, the heat would be back on him.

The Pencil Neck
02-20-2007, 04:19 PM
I'm sorry I can't subscribe to the idiocracy of giving Carr $13 million last year, getting rid of him this year, signing Plummer this year and giving him $10 million. The stupidity and insanity of this does not excist in the Texans FO.


When did we decide we were going to give Plummer $10 million?

Hopefully, IF Plummer decides to come here, it's because he wants to play for Kubiak and not because we offer him more than he's worth.

TwinSisters
02-20-2007, 04:24 PM
Hopefully, IF Plummer decides to come here, it's because he wants to play for Kubiak and not because we offer him more than he's worth.

And if he fails? ( Plummer )

just looking at the pros and cons of it.

The Pencil Neck
02-20-2007, 04:24 PM
I think all will be forgiven if the Texans have a winning record in 2007, and even more so if they grab a playoff berth.

Fans are tired of losing, and Carr is just the current focus of those negative feelings. Last year it was Dom Capers, this year it's David Carr.

I don't know if that's true. Winning doesn't really cure everything. And if we win, but Carr is still unproductive, I don't think that's going to take the heat off Carr.

We won 6 games this year, almost as many as we did in our best season ever. The pressure is/was still on Carr because of the way we won. If Carr had been lighting it up and we only won 6 games, there would be no pressure on Carr.

Marcus
02-20-2007, 05:04 PM
I think all will be forgiven if the Texans have a winning record in 2007, and even more so if they grab a playoff berth.

That's baloney.

Signed,

Rex Grossman

Double Barrel
02-20-2007, 05:45 PM
Well, y'all are probably right....unfortunately. :( point taken

The Pencil Neck
02-20-2007, 06:59 PM
And if he fails? ( Plummer )

just looking at the pros and cons of it.

If he fails, we get the same sort of QB performance we got the past 2 years and then Stanton comes off the bench at the midpoint of the season. We win 8 straight and go to the playoffs but lose in the first round because we're too psyched up for the game and play flat.

TwinSisters
02-20-2007, 07:15 PM
If he fails, we get the same sort of QB performance we got the past 2 years and then Stanton comes off the bench at the midpoint of the season. We win 8 straight and go to the playoffs but lose in the first round because we're too psyched up for the game and play flat.

I don't know man... If Kubiak grabbed Plummer and failed, I think there is a lot more at risk then "just" being wrong about Carr. Without Plummer and staying with Carr a second poor season might still look like Carr and save any ire that Kubiak would catch.

We kinda saw that happen with Mariucci ( who was a pretty popular fella ), when he brought Garcia in. Although that was his third season, not second.

The Pencil Neck
02-20-2007, 07:22 PM
I don't know man... If Kubiak grabbed Plummer and failed, I think there is a lot more at risk then "just" being wrong about Carr. Without Plummer and staying with Carr a second poor season might still look like Carr and save any ire that Kubiak would catch.

We kinda saw that happen with Mariucci ( who was a pretty popular fella ), when he brought Garcia in. Although that was his third season, not second.

Yeah, if we fail to get good play at the QB position after bringing Plummer in, then Kubiak is going to lose a lot of Karma points. But if this offense doesn't start doing something next year then people are going to start branding Kubiak a Norv Turner who's a great coordinator that shouldn't be in the head coach position regardless of the QB we've got playing.

Unless he turns into a Billick and builds a scary defense that takes us to the SB even though he can't get the offense to click to save his life. :)

edo783
02-20-2007, 08:32 PM
I. What triggered the whole $8 million dollor roster bonus and the three year extension was Carr voiding the last 3 years of his contract. Carr took the extra money but didn't deliver with improved results. .

I don't think Carr voided anything, but did meet certain play and performance numbers (no clue what those might have been, had to be low). The contract was written such that the club had the option of exercising either a 2 year or 3 year extension...at the clubs option. If not, Carr was a UFA. So, it was basically a fixed length contract with the option for an extension if the club desired and Carr had no say either way.

HJam72
02-22-2007, 10:27 AM
Did he have clauses for number of times sacked or stepped out of bounds? That could explain a lot. :winky:

Andrew6
02-22-2007, 07:46 PM
Did he have clauses for number of times sacked or stepped out of bounds? That could explain a lot. :winky:

not sure, but would make a lot of sense. Seems he played real safe most of the time. Always looking to get permission from kubiak. I think he'd do better if he was just left to do what he can do

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 09:10 PM
There doesn't need to be a long term solution. But for many people, Carr symbolically represents what is wrong with the Texans. If Carr is kept for another year, then that would represent to a lot of fans, rightly or wrongly, that the Texans aren't serious about correcting what is "really" wrong with the team.

The situation with Carr has degenerated to the point where keeping him on the team would be public relations problem. Too much resentment, too many hard feelings, too much damage.

No, most people bring up the offensive line not Carr.

New_Texans
02-22-2007, 09:11 PM
I don't know if that's true. Winning doesn't really cure everything. And if we win, but Carr is still unproductive, I don't think that's going to take the heat off Carr.

We won 6 games this year, almost as many as we did in our best season ever. The pressure is/was still on Carr because of the way we won. If Carr had been lighting it up and we only won 6 games, there would be no pressure on Carr.


If we are winning and carr is unproductive we get rid of him IF there is a better option for the texans.