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View Full Version : Sage or Plummer??


thunderkyss
02-17-2007, 03:59 PM
I'd like to get a gauge about how many guys would actually want to hand the starting job to Jake the Snake.

I don't hate Jake, but I gave up watching him when he got the shakes in Arizona. I figured it was a matter of time before that Jake showed up in Denver. Same way I feel about David. Kubiak might get some solid production out of Carr, but it's only a matter time before the bad David will show up at the wrong time. Kinda like Jake in the AFC Championship game.

I also believe that we gave David too much last year, to give up on him all of a sudden. But I believe the worst thing we can do, is start him for a 6th year.

To see this through, we need to start Sage, & let David calm down on the sideline. Take all the pressure off of him. Let him focus on playing football, and getting better.

kiwitexansfan
02-17-2007, 04:02 PM
I feel like I have argued this whole Sage thing a thousand times and Plummer 999 times.

Neither of them are an immediate up grade to Carr and Carr still has the biggest upside of the 3.

Honoring Earl 34
02-17-2007, 04:15 PM
I'd like to get a gauge about how many guys would actually want to hand the starting job to Jake the Snake.

I don't hate Jake, but I gave up watching him when he got the shakes in Arizona. I figured it was a matter of time before that Jake showed up in Denver. Same way I feel about David. Kubiak might get some solid production out of Carr, but it's only a matter time before the bad David will show up at the wrong time. Kinda like Jake in the AFC Championship game.

I also believe that we gave David too much last year, to give up on him all of a sudden. But I believe the worst thing we can do, is start him for a 6th year.

To see this through, we need to start Sage, & let David calm down on the sideline. Take all the pressure off of him. Let him focus on playing football, and getting better.

I would like for the 1st time in this teams existance to have an actual competition .

trutxn
02-17-2007, 04:17 PM
I feel like I have argued this whole Sage thing a thousand times and Plummer 999 times.

Neither of them are an immediate up grade to Carr and Carr still has the biggest upside of the 3.

You got that right, Carr is better than both of them.

HomeBred_Texan
02-17-2007, 04:20 PM
I dont even want Plummer on the team, much less trying to win a starting spot... Hows that for honesty?

The Pencil Neck
02-17-2007, 04:26 PM
Every position on the team should be open to competition. The most productive player, whoever that is, should be playing unless you're going to accept a down year to train someone (which is what I think they were trying to do for the majority of last year) and in general, you should only do that for a rookie.

Marcus
02-17-2007, 04:27 PM
I dont even want Plummer on the team, much less trying to win a starting spot... Hows that for honesty?
Couldn't have said it better myself.:highfive: :perfect10:

HoustonFrog
02-17-2007, 04:35 PM
I don't know how else to explain my opinion

Carr is an upgrade to no one and the excuses must stop at some point. I don't see the upside some see because I've yet to see improvment regarding basic QBing

Roselnfels looked sharp in the limited time I saw him play. He looked more comfortible in the pocket by a long shot compared to Carr. BUT I still don't think he is the starter.

Plummer is Cybil and you don't know what you are going to get. I liked what I saw from him under Kubiak. If he could repeat that here he would be a slight upgrade.

As for all of them competing. You thought this year was tough, wait until every game is parsed and you have people crying for the backup...whoever he is. No to competition with Carr involved. Bad business and not good for the team.

That sums up my basics.

Honoring Earl 34
02-17-2007, 04:40 PM
I don't know how else to explain my opinion

Carr is an upgrade to no one and the excuses must stop at some point. I don't see the upside some see because I've yet to see improvment regarding basic QBing

Roselnfels looked sharp in the limited time I saw him play. He looked more comfortible in the pocket by a long shot compared to Carr. BUT I still don't think he is the starter.

Plummer is Cybil and you don't know what youa re going to get. I liked what I saw from him under Kubiak. If he could repeat that here he would be a slight upgrade.

As fro all of them competing. You thought this year was tough, wait until every game is parsed and you have peopel crying for the backup...whoever he is. No to competition with Carr involved. Bad business and for the team.

That sums up my basics.

I think the QB position has'nt been our strong suit anyhow . We will win at least 7 no matter who is QB . Good QB play may get us to 9 wins .

I think we go with Sage , Porter , and young guy . WTF at least we can sign more FAs .

Texian
02-17-2007, 04:43 PM
I'd like to get a gauge about how many guys would actually want to hand the starting job to Jake the Snake.

I don't hate Jake, but I gave up watching him when he got the shakes in Arizona. I figured it was a matter of time before that Jake showed up in Denver. Same way I feel about David. Kubiak might get some solid production out of Carr, but it's only a matter time before the bad David will show up at the wrong time. Kinda like Jake in the AFC Championship game.

I also believe that we gave David too much last year, to give up on him all of a sudden. But I believe the worst thing we can do, is start him for a 6th year.

To see this through, we need to start Sage, & let David calm down on the sideline. Take all the pressure off of him. Let him focus on playing football, and getting better.

I agree, and take the money you would waste flip flopping QBS (Carr/Plummer) and put it towards signing Pettigout. 08 looks like a better year to address the QB position.

HoustonFrog
02-17-2007, 05:13 PM
I think the QB position has'nt been our strong suit anyhow . We will win at least 7 no matter who is QB . Good QB play may get us to 9 wins .

I think we go with Sage , Porter , and young guy . WTF at least we can sign more FAs .

That is exactly what I have thought. I'd take Rosenfels..maybe Plummer for a year or two and you have the young guy learn the system. I don't think you can say those 3 are the answer but I think moving Carr would help all parties move along while we get an eventual upgrade and Carr gets a better situation.

Honoring Earl 34
02-17-2007, 05:26 PM
That is exactly what I have thought. I'd take Rosenfels..maybe Plummer for a year or two and you have the young guy learn the system. I don't think you can say those 3 are the answer but I think moving Carr would help all parties move along while we get an eventual upgrade and Carr gets a better situation.

There problem solved ... now global warming .

Texan Asylum
02-17-2007, 05:42 PM
Competition brings out the best in most people.

Andrew6
02-17-2007, 06:00 PM
There problem solved ... now global warming .

ahh global warming is B. S. they can't even predict the weather from week to week. How can they predict how the climate will change.

TexanSam
02-17-2007, 06:58 PM
I feel like I have argued this whole Sage thing a thousand times and Plummer 999 times.

Neither of them are an immediate up grade to Carr and Carr still has the biggest upside of the 3.

Jake Plummer's 3 years under Kubiak:

2003 - 189/302 2182 yds, 15 TDs and 7 INTs, 91.2 QB rating
2004 - 303/521 4089 yds, 27 TDs and 20 INTs, 84.5 rating
2005 - 277/456 3366 yds, 18 TDs and 7 INTs, 90.2 rating

Plummer knows the sytem and has had success in the system. There's a lot of QB's who have upside. Carr's had 5 years to prove that he can turn that upside into something. Now he's never been given enough to work with, but even in those 5 years he would have shown something that says "Wow, if we had the right pieces in place he could thrive here." I would take Plummer over Carr in a heartbeat.

vtech9
02-17-2007, 08:13 PM
IMHO, I think Carr is a great PRACTICE player, so I think he would win any competition. However, I voted for Sage out of the three listed, because I don't want Plummer at all, and even though Carr is great in practice, he just can't seem to produce in game situations.

TexanBorn51
02-17-2007, 08:41 PM
Sage is not the future...Jake is not a Texan...when and if he is then I will decide again although I probably will go with Carr...and David to start in 07 will finally be surrounded by the best talented Texan team yet after all the healing injuries, FA, draft, and Kube & Co with one year in Houston behind them.Then once and for all this year finally observe, analyze, react, and change QB's to truth or fiction to all the Carr vs anti-Carr rhetoric debates. Also one has to consider from all spoken possibilities from the FO and unproven rumors that before 07 season even begins we may not even have both Jake and Carr although IMO unlikely.:throwball:

thunderkyss
02-17-2007, 09:32 PM
Sage is not the future...Jake is not a Texan...when and if he is then I will decide again although I probably will go with Carr...and David to start in 07 will finally be surrounded by the best talented Texan team yet after all the healing injuries, FA, draft, and Kube & Co with one year in Houston behind them.Then once and for all this year finally observe, analyze, react, and change QB's to truth or fiction to all the Carr vs anti-Carr rhetoric debates. Also one has to consider from all spoken possibilities from the FO and unproven rumors that before 07 season even begins we may not even have both Jake and Carr although IMO unlikely.:throwball:

What injuries??

Jameel Cook..... when he gets to 100%, he'll be cut from the team.

Weigart...... when he gets to 100%, he'll be lucky to be Winston's backup.

Flanagan...... when he gets to 100%, he'll be lucky to stay on the team.

Salaam, Pitts, McKinney, Weary, Winston is a much better line that what we started with.

Spencer, Pitts, Flanagan, McKinney, Weigart.

The only exception might be Spencer over Salaam, but we don't know that he would have played better for 16 games..... He looked good.. he's got potential, & I hope he comes back to be our LT, but we don't know that he would have worked out better than Salaam.

Owen is our starting TE..... Bruenner is our second.

Andre is the man..... Moulds will most likely be back..... & Kevin Walter, Derrick Anderson will most likely return as well.

Wali will still be on the team. Chris Taylor will return. I'd like to see RonDayne back, and can't see him not being on the team.

There isn't one position that hasn't been made better on offense, due to injury, with the possible exception of Spencer/Salaam.

So the team that finished the last three games of '06 will most likely be the starting team in '07.

TexanBorn51
02-17-2007, 11:29 PM
Exactly I understand..I was merely implying about the unplanned effect that occured to the team in the starting 06 performance. For any team to have at least five starters, maybe more not sure, going down for the season is unusually unexpected and therefore changes and rotations occurred and consistency is harmed by it. Sure you can rule out those only three starters Weigart, Flanagan, Cook, and install others but those three could still be good candidates for backups now to the new starters because of the veteran depth second string that has to be considered. An injured starter is only as good as a healthy backup and any player is potential to injury for one day up to and including the entire season. Sure you can have best talented NFL starters in every position on a team but if and when they start going down for long periods of time hopefully the backups will fulfill the same mission.

The Pencil Neck
02-18-2007, 05:56 PM
Sage is not the future...

I don't think our future is on our team, yet.

SamuraiSword
02-19-2007, 10:41 PM
I say let them compete! I am tired of letting someone with no heart play as QB. i want someone to earn it for once. :yes:

Grid
02-19-2007, 10:49 PM
I voted Jake.. but right after i hit submit i saw the "let them compete" option..which is what I WOULD have picked had I not jumped the gun :D

BleedTheBurntOrange
02-19-2007, 10:54 PM
Let them compete dont appoint anyone the starter let Carr sweat make him earn it.

He hasnt earned the right to be the starter after his performances.

Clash_Fan3605
02-19-2007, 11:00 PM
I chose compete. No one should just be handed starting jobs. Everyone should have to earn it. And at the end of the day, I think Plummer will be the starter.

powerfuldragon
02-19-2007, 11:51 PM
start sage rosenfels.

TwinSisters
02-20-2007, 12:56 AM
The Clash next to Yanni...

and who said Carr parted the fan base like Moses? I think quite the opposite.

Brandon420tx
02-20-2007, 11:41 AM
Lets start grooming Porter, He played the best in last years pre-season!

I would never start Plummer or Sage over Carr, sorry.

powerfuldragon
02-20-2007, 11:48 AM
The Clash next to Yanni...

and who said Carr parted the fan base like Moses? I think quite the opposite.
haha... i wish i could say i'm a fan of yanni's music. i'm a fan of his mustache.

bah007
02-20-2007, 01:51 PM
Funny how Carr gets ragged so much on this board but he is actually winning the vote over the other two guys.

Arky
02-20-2007, 04:39 PM
Funny how Carr gets ragged so much on this board but he is actually winning the vote over the other two guys.

I think that's the way it has always been. The detractors have always been more vocal than the supporters (and this would include the more patient fans). And if you listen to the media (Chronicle, talk radio), the whole city of Houston wants him gone..... There's still a heck of a lot of DC-support out there...

The Pencil Neck
02-20-2007, 05:26 PM
Funny how Carr gets ragged so much on this board but he is actually winning the vote over the other two guys.

But he is losing to having it open to competition. I'm just surprised so many people want to just anoint someone as our QB.

real
02-20-2007, 05:30 PM
Of course I'd like for there to be real competition, but if I had it my way Sage would be the starter.

real
02-20-2007, 05:35 PM
Funny how Carr gets ragged so much on this board but he is actually winning the vote over the other two guys.

That's not really saying much...

You can look at it like that, or you can look at it as Sage and Plummer = anybody else. Right now Carr is losing to anybody else, and open competition. The people who don't want Carr to start votes are split between Sage and Plummer.

Sage and Plummer = anything but Carr.

Texan_Bill
02-20-2007, 05:52 PM
:stirpot:

Sage and Plummer = top 10 draft pick in 2008

real
02-20-2007, 05:55 PM
:stirpot:

Sage and Plummer = top 10 draft pick in 2008


Carr has already = #1 overall :shades:

Texan_Bill
02-20-2007, 05:57 PM
Carr has already = #1 overall :shades:

LOL. That is true!!

TwinSisters
02-20-2007, 06:01 PM
:stirpot:

Sage and Plummer = top 10 draft pick in 2008

well it better happen then. 2009 and 2010 are looking like expansion drafts.

A good reason to pick Plummer up ...as a player shield. It would be nice to return the favour to another expansion team.

mganz
02-20-2007, 06:01 PM
What if Jake was released and cleared waivers and we signed him to a reasonable contract. Rework Carrs contract and there be a competition for the starting job. A few are saying let Carr sit behind Sage and let him learn. If that is the case then let him sit behind Jake and learn if he earns it. Just a thought. I personally want to see Carr here next year. If after that he has not made significant improvement then release him.

thunderkyss
02-20-2007, 09:10 PM
But he is losing to having it open to competition. I'm just surprised so many people want to just anoint someone as our QB.

In my opinion, if we were going to start the best QB in '06, it would have been Sage. I think Sage would have won any competition last year, & would be a clear winner next year. Saying it's an "open competition" is just a waste of time.

Who's got the stronger Arm?? David. The stronger Chin?? David. Who has the most upside?? David.

But IMHO, he should've been working on his upside from the bench........ I don't think he was ready to start.

I still believe there is too much pressure on him. the fans aren't making it any easier, and Kubiak....... Kubiak's a real cut throat kinda guy.

He needs to sit on the sideline, and watch someone else succeed/fail. If that other person Succeeds, he needs to try to understand what it is that guy is doing that is helping him succeed. If that guy fails... he needs to understand that's the way it goes, and no one is expecting him to be perfect. We just want him to give us a chance to win. His style of play puts all the pressure on him, hoping someone breaks a takle, and pick up 13 yards after the catch.

Sage should start, because I don't believe Plummer belongs in Houston, and David isn't up to it yet.

& another thing. IMHO, those who want to throw Carr out there again are kinda cruel.

SamuraiSword
02-21-2007, 12:04 AM
Funny how Carr gets ragged so much on this board but he is actually winning the vote over the other two guys.

yeah and take away the compete for the job vote and you will see either Jake or Sage ahead of David.:tease: