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View Full Version : The Saints in NOLA still face big problems


nunusguy
02-16-2007, 10:23 AM
Still, about a quarter of the stadium’s luxury suites are unoccupied (they are all in various stages of construction), and naming rights to the Superdome are unsold.

“We’re financially viable,” said Dennis Lauscha, the team’s chief financial officer. “We have two big problems, a facility problem and a market problem. If you fix both, you’ll have strong viability.”

The Saints face formidable obstacles. Not the least is whether local and state governments, with enormous rebuilding priorities, can, or should, help finance a new stadium or let Benson move elsewhere. After Katrina struck, Benson was reportedly interested in moving the team to San Antonio, where it played several home games during the 2005 season.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/sports/football/17saints.html?ex=1171774800&en=8500cbddaff1c3d0&ei=5070

Exithios
02-16-2007, 10:36 AM
I hate for NO to lose, what seems to be, the next up and coming franchise in the NFL. But, on the other hand, I would love for the Saints to go to San Antonio.

I am die hard Texans through and through, but I also tend to route for the next closest home team come play off time (Cowboys). This would be a nice addition to our state.

In all honesty though, I think someone will step forward and help NO keep their franchise.

HJam72
02-16-2007, 11:42 AM
Problem is, if the Saints come to SA, I'll never see the Texans again. It'll be like the New Orleans Texans to me. :brickwall

tulexan
02-16-2007, 11:45 AM
I think the Saints would go to LA over San Antonio.

Mr. White
02-16-2007, 12:46 PM
I think the Saints would go to LA over San Antonio.

They may not have a choice. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7359847)

texanskan
02-16-2007, 12:50 PM
They may not have a choice. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7359847)

LOL, three year old article.

Mr. White
02-16-2007, 12:54 PM
LOL, three year old article.

How about this one (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2007/02/16/government/794chargers021507.txt)?

Thursday, Feb. 15, 2007 | When the Chargers first began their push for a new stadium, two words loomed large over the entire debate: Los Angeles. The city, long without professional football, appeared to be fully in the throes of pursuing a new football stadium.

The threat posed by the nation's second-largest media market seemed real. So real, in fact, it dominated conversation and spurred the city of San Diego to renegotiate the team's lease because of the possibility of the team negotiating with Los Angeles.


Many in the industry believe NFL owners want an expansion team, not a relocation, to come to Los Angeles so they can share what is expected to be a $1 billion franchise fee. The fee, paid by a prospective owner to bring a new league into the team, is divvied up among the league's other owners.


What's changed since then? They still don't know if they'll have a team relocate there or put an expansion team there.

Make no mistake about it. The NFL wants a franchise in the 2nd largest city in the US. They'll get it come hell or high water.

Specnatz
02-16-2007, 01:55 PM
LOL, three year old article.

Yeah it is an old article but it still applies. Remember, how the NFL did just about anything to give an expansion to LA over Houston? It still holds true, that they will try to get a team there regardless if the people in LA want it there or not.

Chicagotexan1
02-16-2007, 02:17 PM
Being drafted by the Saints was Reggie Bushs' best chance to play footbal in LA again. Even thought LA is apathetic when it comes to proball, I think the fans would support a team that had a former trojan great.

TwinSisters
02-16-2007, 03:23 PM
well looking at Forbes,
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_Rank_2.html

New Orleans is the only team with a negative operating income.

Looking at Bob's billion dollars, maybe Houston should let the Saints play in the Astrodome to share some of our market.

Insideop
02-16-2007, 07:02 PM
I think the Saints would go to LA over San Antonio.

I have to agree with this, but not just because the NFL wants a team in the 2nd largest market. I think Jerry Jones would try to block any move to San Antonio because of the large market/fan base of Cowboy fans he has there.

Hookem Horns
02-16-2007, 07:08 PM
Problem is, if the Saints come to SA, I'll never see the Texans again. It'll be like the New Orleans Texans to me. :brickwall

It's not like you're seeing them now (if you live outside of Houston). Actually, since the Saints are an NFC team they would bump the Cowboys. So in Austin, Sundays would be the Saints and Titans every week. The Cowboys fans here would love that.

GuerillaBlack
02-16-2007, 08:15 PM
San Antonio is a nice city and all, but no way in hell they land the Saints. So many different factors go into this. They are a market like Jacksonville. Jacksonville puts tarps their stadium to avoid blackouts. SA doesn't have the disposably income that is really needed to support the NFL long-term. Also, corporate sponshorship. Once the newness of the team wears off, that will be a finacially struggling franchise.

Los Angeles has all of that, so the NFL wouldn't pass up an area of 20 million for 1.8 million San Antonio's area.

Regardless, I would like the Saints to stay in New Orleans, but that city doesn't have its priorities right, so they might lose them.

TwinSisters
02-18-2007, 11:38 AM
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB117167181660611755-rAkoz1_0yt1gniQ1PnZyBzzw0sw_20070223.html?mod=blog s

just tagging this one on to this story because of a trend in sports. The article talks mostly about baseball, but I am pretty sure it applies to football too.

No doubt it is also a factor in NOLA's rebuilding strategy

jlam
02-19-2007, 03:35 PM
How about this one (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2007/02/16/government/794chargers021507.txt)?





What's changed since then? They still don't know if they'll have a team relocate there or put an expansion team there.

Make no mistake about it. The NFL wants a franchise in the 2nd largest city in the US. They'll get it come hell or high water.

Sure they will. Eventually. But I doubt it will be anytime soon enough to land the Saints. By the time some sort of stadium resolution is come up with in L.A., the Saints will likely either have extended their lease with the state or have packed up elsewhere.

Fact of the matter is that L.A. isn't really that high of a priority right now for the NFL. Here's an article from just before the Super Bowl. Touches on a few of the Commish's views as it pertains to the NFL in L.A.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_5148994

TwinSisters
02-19-2007, 03:58 PM
I think the Saints are off the hook now too. The PR disaster that would come from moving the Saints would make it silly. I don't think the other owners will go for it.

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2007/02/16/government/794chargers021507.txt

Jerry Jones effect.
Rascher, the economist, said NFL owners are now seeing the success Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones had in getting local cities there to compete against each other. Voters in the city of Arlington eventually approved a tax increase to contribute $325 million to the project. Rascher noted that the same approach is being used by the owner of the 49ers in San Francisco.

Goodell has to do something with NFL Network and the targets they have set for coverage... which is a whole another debate with cable companies and sat tv outfits. ( and the recent revolts from private enterprise journalism )

The franchise fee of a billion dollars for two new clubs is a mighty big check for most of the owners ( and would double/triple their normal profits made )

Toronto and LA are the latest targets that I have seen. ( with the idea that the Toronto club would be marketed as the face of all of Canada )

Mexico City has been scorned because of the distance and the safety concerns ( but only by a handful of economists ).

EDIT:
Also whatever happened to Terry Bradshaw buying the Saints?

gwallaia
02-19-2007, 04:09 PM
The Saints need to stay in New Orleans.

jlam
02-19-2007, 05:50 PM
EDIT:
Also whatever happened to Terry Bradshaw buying the Saints?

I don't think Bradshaw and his group of backers (James Davison, a major trucking mogul out of Ruston, La being one of them) ever really got out of the stage of preliminary talks to attempt to buy the team. Benson wasn't selling, but I think that just the effort put forth by Bradshaw kind of brought to the forefront the fact that if Benson were to try and take the team elsewhere, there was someone willing to put up the money to buy the team to keep it in the region (there were rumors at the time that the league may strongarm Benson into selling to someone with proper financial resources to avoid the ensuing PR nightmare). Obviously, Bradshaw wouldn't have done this if he felt he were going to lose major money, but I think his primary objective was to keep the franchise in New Orleans and bring some stability, which (at least for the time being) is the case.

I really wish the whole "Swap T.B. for T.B." thing would have come to fruition, as it would have eased everyone's minds considerably concerning the long-term future of our team. But I think in reality it was kind of a pipe dream all along.

Double Barrel
02-19-2007, 05:57 PM
It would be a travesty if the Saints were no longer in New Orleans.

I understand business and economics, but that doesn't make it right. If (and maybe when) they do move, it would reveal that the NFL no longer cares about their much heralded traditions as much as they care about the almighty dollar. Profit is an important part of things, but I see a time in the future when the average fan is priced out of enjoying professional sports.

jlam
02-19-2007, 06:15 PM
It would be a travesty if the Saints were no longer in New Orleans.

I understand business and economics, but that doesn't make it right. If (and maybe when) they do move, it would reveal that the NFL no longer cares about their much heralded traditions as much as they care about the almighty dollar. Profit is an important part of things, but I see a time in the future when the average fan is priced out of enjoying professional sports.

Unfortunately I think that if the Saints were to end up moving, it will ultimately be out of the NFL's hands when it happens. To this point the NFL has done nothing but twist every arm possible to keep the Saints where they are, and I couldn't be more satisfied with what Tagliabue and Goodell have said publicly concerning the subject (although that IS publicly).

I fear that if things were to go South, it will be due to greedy ownership/management and poor leadership at the state level. Benson appears to have, at least temporarily, backed off of his pre-Katrina stadium demands, realizing that the only real short-term (5 years and in) is the Superdome. There is an out-clause in our current lease agreement with the state that has to be exercised by March 31 I believe where if the team chooses to do so, it may pay $70 million and walk, but if not, they are here until 2010. I highly doubt that our current governor, Kathleen Blanco, will be re-elected, and some have suggested that she is a major hanging point in the negotiations between the team and the state. Many think that she is content with just making sure the Saints don't leave under her watch, leaving the long-term problem for someone else to deal with.

QB75
02-19-2007, 08:52 PM
It would be a travesty if the Saints were no longer in New Orleans.

I understand business and economics, but that doesn't make it right. If (and maybe when) they do move, it would reveal that the NFL no longer cares about their much heralded traditions as much as they care about the almighty dollar. Profit is an important part of things, but I see a time in the future when the average fan is priced out of enjoying professional sports.

Saints won't be there in another 5 years. The NFL just wasn't going to approve a move so soon.

nunusguy
02-19-2007, 09:17 PM
FLA has three NFL teams, why couldn't TX ? OK, maybe they are struggling
with the fan base in Jackonsville, but SA is a more vibrant city of commerce
with a much stronger business base than what the Jags have. AT&T, Valero
Energy, and Clear Channel are just a few of SAs steller based Fortune 500s.
Everybody says the Saints might end up in LA, but IMO LA will have an Xpansion team before the Saints are prepared to move. And I really think they will move. And without LA needing a team and with the Saints ownership being from SA, well
what's a better destination than SA ?

GuerillaBlack
02-19-2007, 09:43 PM
FLA has three NFL teams, why couldn't TX ? OK, maybe they are struggling
with the fan base in Jackonsville, but SA is a more vibrant city of commerce
with a much stronger business base than what the Jags have. AT&T, Valero
Energy, and Clear Channel are just a few of SAs steller based Fortune 500s.
Everybody says the Saints might end up in LA, but IMO LA will have an Xpansion team before the Saints are prepared to move. And I really think they will move. And without LA needing a team and with the Saints ownership being from SA, well
what's a better destination than SA ?

I am sorry to say, but San Antonio is thought of as a "poor big city." AT&T, Valero, and Clear Channel are the only bright spots. A lot of people (I have heard from many transplants there to) that it is like Mexico City: expensive shops, but area seems poor. I think Jerry Jones would put up a fight, too (Cowboys country, training camp opening this year in SA). I doubg the NFL wants to expand after their perfect setup now.

Jacksonville has a similar population base as San Antonio, but they have to put tarps over 10,000 seats to avoid blackouts. SA couldn't even sellout the Saints game when the came into town. If SA really wanted to show up the NFL, those games would have been sold out by the population base, not bought out by companies and tickets being given away at a cheaper price (goes back to the "poor big city").

jlam
02-20-2007, 08:31 AM
Saints won't be there in another 5 years. The NFL just wasn't going to approve a move so soon.

Care to expand, or just a baseless opinion?

jlam
02-20-2007, 08:45 AM
I am sorry to say, but San Antonio is thought of as a "poor big city." AT&T, Valero, and Clear Channel are the only bright spots. A lot of people (I have heard from many transplants there to) that it is like Mexico City: expensive shops, but area seems poor. I think Jerry Jones would put up a fight, too (Cowboys country, training camp opening this year in SA). I doubg the NFL wants to expand after their perfect setup now.

Jacksonville has a similar population base as San Antonio, but they have to put tarps over 10,000 seats to avoid blackouts. SA couldn't even sellout the Saints game when the came into town. If SA really wanted to show up the NFL, those games would have been sold out by the population base, not bought out by companies and tickets being given away at a cheaper price (goes back to the "poor big city").

I agree. San Antonio had a perfect opportunity to show the league that they were an NFL ready city, and they failed to do so. If you want to see what they could have done with their opportunity, just look at Oklahoma City. The Hornets moved their operations temporarily there, and they sold out. Repetitively. So much so that the NBA now has OKC as its frontrunner should another team decide to move or if the league expands. In fact, the Hornets were pretty close to staying there permanently at one point.

The argument that Fla can support 3 teams doesn't really hold water since one of those very teams is one that is struggling to put butts in the seats. Its very situation specific, not as simple as "they can do it, why can't we?". I personally think that the NFL market here in Texas is saturated. Like it or not, Dallas has a stronghold on most of this state and an owner like Jones isn't going to let his fanbase be dilluted without one hell of a fight.

The only way New Orleans loses the Saints is if ownership and crappy local and state government can't come to some sort of agreement long-term. The fan support is there and always will be. So is public sentiment. The NFL is trying hard to keep from having any more of its teams relocate as its horrible for its image in a very image concious league. I think barring a massive screw-up on the local level (which I admit is possible) the Saints will find a way to stay in N'Awlins.

QB75
02-20-2007, 12:44 PM
Care to expand, or just a baseless opinion?

To you? No.

jlam
02-21-2007, 12:08 PM
To you? No.

Good. I was actually worried that you may have something substantial to add to the discussion contrary to what I've offered. I now feel even better about my position seeing as though you aren't capable of backing up your claim whatsoever.

When you're ready to offer something other than one-line quips to this discussion, let me know.

swtbound07
02-21-2007, 12:14 PM
Good. I was actually worried that you may have something substantial to add to the discussion contrary to what I've offered. I now feel even better about my position seeing as though you aren't capable of backing up your claim whatsoever.

When you're ready to offer something other than one-line quips to this discussion, let me know.

all clear on that front...you'll never have to worry about that from that particular source

QB75
02-22-2007, 09:41 PM
Good. I was actually worried that you may have something substantial to add to the discussion contrary to what I've offered. I now feel even better about my position seeing as though you aren't capable of backing up your claim whatsoever.

When you're ready to offer something other than one-line quips to this discussion, let me know.

Glad you feel better. Enjoy them while they are there.

QB75
02-23-2007, 11:36 AM
Good. I was actually worried that you may have something substantial to add to the discussion contrary to what I've offered. I now feel even better about my position seeing as though you aren't capable of backing up your claim whatsoever.

When you're ready to offer something other than one-line quips to this discussion, let me know.

Tried to find something something substantial that you've offered. Nada.

Mr. White
02-23-2007, 11:39 AM
Tried to find something something substantial that you've offered. Nada.

It took you 13 hours to come up with that?

QB75
02-23-2007, 05:01 PM
It took you 13 hours to come up with that?

I don't spend all day on here like most of you do.

GuerillaBlack
02-23-2007, 05:09 PM
It isn't hard to make a lot of posts on here. I have been on for almost a year and am close to 800 posts. That is like three posts a day (2.66 according to my profile).

Mr. B
02-25-2007, 09:16 PM
JLAM,

I understand your points on ownership and local government. I lived all my life in South La. until some years ago when I moved to Houston for work.

But really its hard to put the blame on the government local or statewide. They have been funding the Saints for as long as I can remember.

Granted I think they should have built a new stadium but its hard to convince the people up in the Northern part of the state why there money should be spent on the Saints more than it already is. Plus the state has had some major issues to deal with for years which are far more pressing than football. Benson has been no help with his constant hanging of leaving over there heads for more tax money so he doesn't have to come out of pocket. More revenue from the stadium, plus if I recall years ago with regard to the naming Benson gets all the money from the naming even though he didn't put a penny into building the place or maintaining it.

As for problems with the Government well that is La. Politics like it has always been. The voters put Babs and Nagy in office so now they have to live with the repercussions.

The Saints are a tradition in New Orleans and should stay there. If Benson doesn't like the deal he is given then sell to a local group who will keep them there. But he is a sack of crap so that will probably never happen.

B

QB75
02-27-2007, 09:59 PM
JLAM,

I understand your points on ownership and local government. I lived all my life in South La. until some years ago when I moved to Houston for work.

But really its hard to put the blame on the government local or statewide. They have been funding the Saints for as long as I can remember.

Granted I think they should have built a new stadium but its hard to convince the people up in the Northern part of the state why there money should be spent on the Saints more than it already is. Plus the state has had some major issues to deal with for years which are far more pressing than football. Benson has been no help with his constant hanging of leaving over there heads for more tax money so he doesn't have to come out of pocket. More revenue from the stadium, plus if I recall years ago with regard to the naming Benson gets all the money from the naming even though he didn't put a penny into building the place or maintaining it.

As for problems with the Government well that is La. Politics like it has always been. The voters put Babs and Nagy in office so now they have to live with the repercussions.

The Saints are a tradition in New Orleans and should stay there. If Benson doesn't like the deal he is given then sell to a local group who will keep them there. But he is a sack of crap so that will probably never happen.

B

Government shouldn't have to support the team. Unless fans support it, tough to make a case.