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tulexan
02-14-2007, 10:31 PM
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/14/Bucs/Georgia_Tech_s_Johnso.shtml

Johnson was clocked at 4.33 in the 40, recorded an 11-foot standing broad jump and had a vertical leap of 43 inches.

If true, he is going to be the #1 pick. You do not pass on someone that big and fast.

Trap_Star
02-14-2007, 10:34 PM
No freakin' way he ran a 4.33...

YoungTexanFan
02-14-2007, 10:36 PM
No freakin' way he ran a 4.33...

Yes. He is better than AJ coming out. He has better hands, is bigger and faster, and fights for the ball. He is everything that AJ is and more...which is scary.

Ole Miss Texan
02-14-2007, 10:36 PM
Yea, that dude is amazing. Whatever team gets him is going to be very lucky. He would be a steal if he got selected #1 overall much less lower!!! lol

gtexan02
02-14-2007, 10:43 PM
How can someone jump 11 feet from a dead stand still. That boggles my mind.

Trap_Star
02-14-2007, 10:48 PM
I wont believe the forty time til' he does it at the combine or pro-day...:shades: There is no way somebody can be this good, he has to have a flaw....

gtexan02
02-14-2007, 10:49 PM
Its at the RCA dome. That should help him hit that crazy speed

TexanSam
02-14-2007, 10:50 PM
Speed can be overrated. Not saying Calvin Johnson is overrated, but speed being taken into account can be dumb sometimes.

YoungTexanFan
02-14-2007, 10:53 PM
I could have sworn CJ was like 6'6-6'7 though.

YoungTexanFan
02-14-2007, 10:55 PM
I wont believe the forty time til' he does it at the combine or pro-day...:shades: There is no way somebody can be this good, he has to have a flaw....

His flaw was playing on a medicore team with a HS backup playing QB.

His weakness will be his route running as he has been able to get by on athletic ability alone, but his routes are fairly crisp already.

Also, there is a video in one of these threads that I'm too lazy to look up that shows him getting 45in in the vertical.

threetoedpete
02-14-2007, 10:58 PM
No freakin' way he ran a 4.33...

Way. Tune in next week hot shot. He'll hit 4.4. He gets relaxed a 4.3 is in range.

Calvin Johnson is a 9.0 prospect. He starts his bid to catch Jerry Rice the moment he's drafted. He has no flaws. He is devestating and willing blocker. He has great body controll and outstanding hands. His only weakness is inexperence. He'll be a top five reciever this season. If Gruden can come up with a QB, he may lead the league in TD catches...even with with Galloway on the team.

gtexan02
02-15-2007, 12:09 AM
Way. Tune in next week hot shot. He'll hit 4.4. He gets relaxed a 4.3 is in range.

Calvin Johnson is a 9.0 prospect. He starts his bid to catch Jerry Rice the moment he's drafted. He has no flaws. He is devestating and willing blocker. He has great body controll and outstanding hands. His only weakness is inexperence. He'll be a top five reciever this season. If Gruden can come up with a QB, he may lead the league in TD catches...even with with Galloway on the team.

Don't get ahead of yourself there. There is no guarantee with any NFL prospects, because, after all, they are just prospects.

With that said, the best thing about him is his attitude. He is tough, hard worker with a team first mentality. If he drops out of the top 3 I'll be shocked

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 12:25 AM
Don't get ahead of yourself there. There is no guarantee with any NFL prospects, because, after all, they are just prospects.

With that said, the best thing about him is his attitude. He is tough, hard worker with a team first mentality. If he drops out of the top 3 I'll be shocked

His work ethic is second to none. he's got the 'potential' to be great but what sets him apart is his humbleness, attitude, and work ethic.

My roommate is a HUGE geogia tech and falcon fan. He says atlanta should trade their 1st rd picks for '07, '08, & '09 to Oakland so they can get CJ. Now he's half way joking....but half way serious....CJ is that good. (then again he probably thinks atl will be picking #32 in '08 and '09 too! lol)

run-david-run
02-15-2007, 12:35 AM
His work ethic is second to none. he's got the 'potential' to be great but what sets him apart is his humbleness, attitude, and work ethic.

My roommate is a HUGE geogia tech and falcon fan. He says atlanta should trade their 1st rd picks for '07, '08, & '09 to Oakland so they can get CJ. Now he's half way joking....but half way serious....CJ is that good. (then again he probably thinks atl will be picking #32 in '08 and '09 too! lol)

Michael Vick= WR's kryptonite

bah007
02-15-2007, 12:39 AM
Michael Vick= WR's kryptonite

The other side of the story.

Every WR the Falcons have = Vick's kryptonite

or...

The football = Falcon WR's kryptonite

SF49erFaithful
02-15-2007, 01:21 AM
I'm not saying CJ isn't a great athlete or anything, but I'm taking these numbers with a grain of salt. It could be that they are exagerrated or maybe he ran on a faster track (Compared to the combine). I guess the question know is if he decides to participate in any drills at the combine.

YoungTexanFan
02-15-2007, 06:59 AM
I'm not saying CJ isn't a great athlete or anything, but I'm taking these numbers with a grain of salt. It could be that they are exagerrated or maybe he ran on a faster track (Compared to the combine). I guess the question know is if he decides to participate in any drills at the combine.

The thing is, these numbers aren't just thrown out there. They were just done like last week preparing for the combine. CJ has a better vert jump than listed as well. Indy is a fast surface.

Silver Oak
02-15-2007, 07:49 AM
Johnson was on "Path to the Draft" last night and they asked him what he would run in Indy, and he said 4.4....or better. At his size? Wow...

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 08:43 AM
I wont believe the forty time til' he does it at the combine or pro-day...:shades: There is no way somebody can be this good, he has to have a flaw....

Just b/c he runs fast & can jump doesn't mean he's a good football player people. Furthermore, if he is selected #1 overall which would mean the raiders, they'll still have 1 fundamental problem....................... who's going to be throwing to him?

real
02-15-2007, 08:47 AM
Just b/c he runs fast & can jump doesn't mean he's a good football player people. Furthermore, if he is selected #1 overall which would mean the raiders, they'll still have 1 fundamental problem....................... who's going to be throwing to him?

Calvin Johnson is THE best player in this draft and if the Raiders don't draft him, shame on them....

Don't worry about a QB this year, or go with the Best one available in the second rd.....You don't pass on talent like that....and besides, he's the type of reciever that makes QB's look better than what they are.

tulexan
02-15-2007, 08:49 AM
Just b/c he runs fast & can jump doesn't mean he's a good football player people. Furthermore, if he is selected #1 overall which would mean the raiders, they'll still have 1 fundamental problem....................... who's going to be throwing to him?


David Carr?

Kaiser Toro
02-15-2007, 08:49 AM
Just b/c he runs fast & can jump doesn't mean he's a good football player people. Furthermore, if he is selected #1 overall which would mean the raiders, they'll still have 1 fundamental problem....................... who's going to be throwing to him?

If you have watched CJ play you would know he is a great football player. The measureables just bridge the gap for his scaling call at the next level.

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 08:56 AM
If you have watched CJ play you would know he is a great football player. The measureables just bridge the gap for his scaling call at the next level.

i could say the same about DC & a whole host of other heismans & all-americans when they came out. I saw a few of his games last year & the year before that, he was known to disappear sometimes too.

Not taking anything away from the guy, i think he's a top 10 pick but, some people in here were getting all hot & bothered when they saw the 40 time & broad jump numbers, But then some of those same people were blasting the texans for drafting MW last year b/c he was a "workout warrior" type of guy who had all the measurables.

real
02-15-2007, 09:07 AM
i could say the same about DC & a whole host of other heismans & all-americans when they came out. I saw a few of his games last year & the year before that, he was known to disappear sometimes too.

Not taking anything away from the guy, i think he's a top 10 pick but, some people in here were getting all hot & bothered when they saw the 40 time & broad jump numbers, But then some of those same people were blasting the texans for drafting MW last year b/c he was a "workout warrior" type of guy who had all the measurables.

IMO, Mario and Calvin Johnson aren't the same thing....I don't feel like I should have to explain that one.


And he dissapeared last year because his quaterback was terrible. You couldn't have watched this man play. I honestly don't believe you saw any of his games from the way you are talking. You'd have saw how good he was and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

gtexan02
02-15-2007, 09:13 AM
Mario's biggest flaw from everyone around him was that he didn't try that hard all of the time, and would take some games off. He also relied on his physical ability rather than his technique.

Those are CJ's strengths--- his hard working attitude and his technique. He just freakishly has the physical abilities to back it up and wrap it into one ridiculously talented package

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 09:21 AM
IMO, Mario and Calvin Johnson aren't the same thing....I don't feel like I should have to explain that one.


ANd he dissapeared last year because he quaterback was terrible. You couldn't have watched this man play. I honestly don't believe you saw any of his games from the way you are talking. You'd have saw how good he was and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

b/c i don't share the same view as you? & why aren't CJ & MW the same? besides their positions, they are very much alike IMO. CJ had a pretty good freshman & sophmore season much like MW but had breakout jr seasons. Both are athletic freaks for their sizes & positons & both disappeared at times during their final seasons in college.

As far as the bolded, U don't think he's going to face the same thing in the pros with the raiders? i think i said as much in my first statement. i saw him go off on someone in a game that went to OT his freshman/sophmore year & i also saw him torch ND this past year & i also saw the georgia game this past year.

kastofsna
02-15-2007, 09:29 AM
just more evidence that al davis won't draft a quarterback. it's between johnson and peterson. they'll trade for leftwich or carr.

kastofsna
02-15-2007, 09:33 AM
As far as the bolded, U don't think he's going to face the same thing in the pros with the raiders? i think i said as much in my first statement. i saw him go off on someone in a game that went to OT his freshman/sophmore year & i also saw him torch ND this past year as well as the georgia game this past year.
the difference being that, even despite terrible quarterback play, johnson still managed to get 7 games with 100+ yards and 15 total touchdowns. disappeared his junior year? his numbers far eclipse his freshman and sophomore seasons. and that's WITH the awful quarterback play and inept play-calling at times. plus being double-covered at all times, of course

real
02-15-2007, 09:36 AM
b/c i don't share the same view as you? & why aren't CJ & MW the same? besides their positions, they are very much alike IMO. CJ had a pretty good freshman & sophmore season much like MW but had breakout jr seasons. Both are athletic freaks for their sizes & positons & both disappeared at times during their final seasons in college.

Leading up to the draft, Mario was not as highly rated as Calvin Johnson was. Calvin Johnson has been in the spotlight since the season started. There were questions about Mario's work ethic. Calvin Johnson's work ethic has been reported as being "second to none". Mario shot up the draft AFTER his numbers at the combine. We ALREADY KNOW C.J is going to post awesome numbers and we are just anticipating what they'll be. One player is thought to be the clear cut number one overall a couple months BEFORE the draft...the other found out he'd the number one overall THE NIGHT BEFORE the draft. They are not the same. Just because they are both freakishly athletic doesn't make them the same. They're careers have been nothing alike. nothing.



As far as the bolded, U don't think he's going to face the same thing in the pros with the raiders? i think i said as much in my first statement. i saw him go off on someone in a game that went to OT his freshman/sophmore year & i also saw him torch ND this past year as well as the georgia game this past year.



Doesn't matter what he's going to face as a pro. What does that have to do with HIS talent??? This is the draft ya' know ? The worst teams in the leauge are normally at the top. He's going to a bad team regardless so I don't really understand your point. And I said that he makes QB's better...He doens't make them great.

run-david-run
02-15-2007, 09:38 AM
Mario's biggest flaw from everyone around him was that he didn't try that hard all of the time, and would take some games off. He also relied on his physical ability rather than his technique.

Those are CJ's strengths--- his hard working attitude and his technique. He just freakishly has the physical abilities to back it up and wrap it into one ridiculously talented package

I watched every game, and usually tried to watch Mario on defense, and that is simply not true. How many times did you see him chasing the running back across the field, even making tackles on WR's 10 or 15 yards past the LOS. Even with the bum leg, you could tell he never quit on a play. The part about physical ability is correct though, he is still "raw" in that regard.

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 09:42 AM
i could say the same about DC & a whole host of other heismans & all-americans when they came out. I saw a few of his games last year & the year before that, he was known to disappear sometimes too.

Not taking anything away from the guy, i think he's a top 10 pick but, some people in here were getting all hot & bothered when they saw the 40 time & broad jump numbers, But then some of those same people were blasting the texans for drafting MW last year b/c he was a "workout warrior" type of guy who had all the measurables.

You're a baseball guy. And that's OK. The only way you would post this drivel is 1. You don't know what you're posting about. 2. You're a baseball guy who is killing three weeks untill you can make the jump. I understand most people do not watch a lot of college football. I've seen the guy four games this season and two last season. And he is without a doubt, bar none, the greatest WR propsect to come down the pike...ever. He IS a 9.0 prospect. On the Joel Bushabum scale, that means the only thing that will hold this guy back is the team. He gets into any kind of situation that offers any kind of support at all, that is just reasonable...he shuts out the other thrid Wr in the conference for the pro bowl....every year. He dawrfs A.J. with his tallent. He has no holes in his game. Peroiod. You can't see that or have never watched him...you really shouldn't come in here and show your south end. Just making a jack***** out of yourself.

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 09:46 AM
the difference being that, even despite terrible quarterback play, johnson still managed to get 7 games with 100+ yards and 15 total touchdowns. disappeared his junior year? his numbers far eclipse his freshman and sophomore seasons. and that's WITH the awful quarterback play and inept play-calling at times. plus being double-covered at all times, of course

Same can be said for MW his jr. year, I'm sure you know he was expected to come back his senior season & challenge for the butkus award, much like CJ was suppose to challenge this year for the heisman. & when i said disappear i'm talking game by game stats......... again much like mario.

kastofsna
02-15-2007, 09:48 AM
Same can be said for MW his jr. year, I'm sure you know he was expected to come back his senior season & challenge for the butkus award, much like CJ was suppose to challenge this year for the heisman. & when i said disappear i'm talking game by game stats......... again much like mario.
lol, people expected him to return his senior season? i had him pegged to leave early when i watched him play his freshman season. pretty easy bet there, too. guys with his abilty dont stick around 4 years.

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 09:51 AM
I'm not saying CJ isn't a great athlete or anything, but I'm taking these numbers with a grain of salt. It could be that they are exagerrated or maybe he ran on a faster track (Compared to the combine). I guess the question know is if he decides to participate in any drills at the combine.

They are not exagerated. He is very very good. He is a 9.0 prospect. And actually, the Indy RCA dome is a very fast track acording to Gill Brant and others. Gonna be hard for you watching this guy chasing down Jerry. I think he has a chance.

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 09:58 AM
You're a baseball guy. And that's OK. The only way you would post this drivel is 1. You don't know what you're posting about. 2. You're a baseball guy who is killing three weeks untill you can make the jump. I understand most people do not watch a lot of college football. I've seen the guy four games this season and two last season. And he is without a doubt, bar none, the greatest WR propsect to come down the pike...ever. He IS a 9.0 prospect. On the Joel Bushabum scale, that means the only thing that will hold this guy back is the team. He gets into any kind of situation that offers any kind of support at all, that is just reasonable...he shuts out the other thrid Wr in the conference for the pro bowl....every year. He dawrfs A.J. with his tallent. He has no holes in his game. Peroiod. You can't see that or have never watched him...you really shouldn't come in here and show your south end. Just making a jack***** out of yourself.

Wow, did i touch a nerve? Never said the guy wasn't a top 10 pick, but again how many guys were thought to be can't miss prospects as you're basically saying he is in the above post, only to have average careers in the NFL? All i'm saying is you guys, need to calm down a bit, it was his college career & a couple of measureables, he's STILL not a sure thing to be a success in the NFL.

by the way, I'm not a baseball guy, football is my thing, & if i have learned anything about the game on the pro level, I have learned that no matter how good a guy was in college or how fast he runs, doesn't mean squat on the next level, now one is a bonafided superstar. No go sit down somewhere & take your Blood pressure meds.

real
02-15-2007, 10:02 AM
Wow, did i touch a nerve? Never said the guy wasn't a top 10 pick, but again how many guys were thought to be can't miss prospects as you're basically saying he is in the above post, only to have average careers in the NFL? All i'm saying is you guys, need to calm down a bit, it was his college career & a couple of measureables, he's STILL not a sure thing to be a success in the NFL.



Excuse us for being humans that have emotion and not drones. Are you saying we should never again be excited about prospects we really like? because some people in the past didn't live up to expectations ?

"No, Columbus...The world is flat, you'll fall off!!"

DRAMA
02-15-2007, 10:05 AM
Whether he ran a 4.33 or a 4.43 - what's the point? You know the difference between the two numbers??


....listen




POP!


There - the time it took you to say pop was the difference between the two times. Wow! Now, as for that vertical? Yeah, that's kind of tough for a 5'9" corner to guard. I'd still like my WR to be associated with a 4.3 instead of a 4.4 though! :)

However, with that all said, a good route runner with great hands will still be my WR of choice 9 out 10 times.

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 10:07 AM
lol, people expected him to return his senior season? i had him pegged to leave early when i watched him play his freshman season. pretty easy bet there, too. guys with his abilty dont stick around 4 years.

You might've had him pegged (the great Kastofna, lol) but i only said that b/c at the end of his jr. season, he was thought to be among the front runners for the award, which tells of how good he was thought to be, which kind of dispells this notion that he came out of nowhere, in the draft to become a top pick. Maybe up against RB, ML, & VY but what can you say, it was a good draft for the offensive side of the ball that year!

real
02-15-2007, 10:09 AM
However, with that all said, a good route runner with great hands will still be my WR of choice 9 out 10 times.

I guess it depends on your coaching staff...


If I think I have a good WR's coach, then i'm going to take the guy with more upside in expectation that my coaching staff will be able to teach him the finer points of the game...

kinda-sorta like we did with Mario....

DRAMA
02-15-2007, 10:14 AM
I guess it depends on your coaching staff...


If I think I have a good WR's coach, then i'm going to take the guy with more upside in expectation that my coaching staff will be able to teach him the finer points of the game...

kinda-sorta like we did with Mario....

True. It just seems like those guys that can run routes will always play whereas guys like Jerome Mathis remain one-trick ponies! (But I LOVE the one trick that he DOES do! :)

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 10:17 AM
Excuse us for being humans that have emotion and not drones. Are you saying we should never again be excited about prospects we really like? because some people in the past didn't live up to expectations ?

"No, Columbus...The world is flat, you'll fall off!!"

Not at all guy, go crazy with it, but to jump all over someone b/c they don't share the same opinion as you about an nfl draft prospect based on a his college career & 2 measureables is flat out absurd don't you think? We all have our guys that we like & dislike for various reasons ( you might've seen me in other threads professing my man love for AD & Laron Landry) but i respect all guys opinions no matter what, & i prefer to stay reserved until i actually see how the guy performs on the next level.

real
02-15-2007, 10:18 AM
Not at all guy, go crazy with it, but to jump all over someone b/c they don't share the same opinion as you about an nfl draft prospect based on a his college career & 2 measureables is flat out absurd don't you think? We all have our guys that we like & dislike for various reasons ( you might've seen me in other threads professing my man love for AD & Laron Landry) but i respect all guys opinions no matter what, & i prefer to stay reserved until i actually see how the guy performs on the next level.

That's not what you did...

All i'm saying is you guys, need to calm down a bit





You tried to tell us how WE should feel about the guy. Not the other way around. get it straight.

If you'd have just stated your opinion about him, then I wouldn't have made those comments.

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 10:21 AM
That's not what you did...



You said "YALL need to calm down"....

You tried to tell us how WE should feel about the guy.

If you'd have just stated your opinion about him, then I wouldn't have made those comments.


Yeah, i apologize for that, but the above was also after i'd stated my opnion of him. Besides man, i wasn't really directing that at you, it was at threetoedpete.

real
02-15-2007, 10:23 AM
Yeah, i apologize for that, but the above was also after i'd stated my opnion of him. Besides man, i wasn't really directing that at you, it was at threetoedpete.

It's all good....

I repsect your opinion as well...

I don't agree with it....


But I do respect it...

beerlover
02-15-2007, 10:37 AM
Calvin is the #1 Pro Prospect period.

Still that being said does not mean he will be drafted #1 (see Reggie Bush).

I have the feeling the Raiders will make a Texans move bypassing bpa in favor of a "Football Decision" type pick :marionaner:

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 10:45 AM
Calvin is the #1 Pro Prospect period.

Still that being said does not mean he will be drafted #1 (see Reggie Bush).

I have the feeling the Raiders will make a Texans move bypassing bpa in favor of a "Football Decision" type pick :marionaner:

you really think so? I think he's certainly in the mix but to me at this point, until all the pro days & Indy Combine is done, I think it's Russell, would've been AD if he hadn't got hurt & had a good bowl game.

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Wow, did i touch a nerve? Never said the guy wasn't a top 10 pick, but again how many guys were thought to be can't miss prospects as you're basically saying he is in the above post, only to have average careers in the NFL? All i'm saying is you guys, need to calm down a bit, it was his college career & a couple of measureables, he's STILL not a sure thing to be a success in the NFL.

by the way, I'm not a baseball guy, football is my thing, & if i have learned anything about the game on the pro level, I have learned that no matter how good a guy was in college or how fast he runs, doesn't mean squat on the next level, now one is a bonafided superstar. No go sit down somewhere & take your Blood pressure meds.

In that case I'm available for leasons. You've missed very badly here. My advise...befor your grand kids see this in the future, erase your posts so they won't see what a jackass you made of yourself. Stuborn is one thing...stupid is another.

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 10:56 AM
you really think so? I think he's certainly in the mix but to me at this point, until all the pro days & Indy Combine is done, I think it's Russell, would've been AD if he hadn't got hurt & had a good bowl game.

Calvin Johnson is the only 9.0 prospect on this years board. Period. Joe Thomas isn't far behind him. They are the only two that come in day one and give you a blue chip player with pro bowl implications the first game. They are the only two plug and play guys in this draft. Everyone else has warts. They are as close to a lock pick as you can get. You draft them and baring injury or death...they play for you ten seasons and the only augrement is are they first year HOFers after they retire. They are the two safest picks in the draft. Anyone who can't see this is not very astue at grading NFL tallent. CJ isn't just good, he's a lock. He has everything. Playmaking, atitude, elite ball skills. What is it about that you do not understand ? He is not just the best WR prospect this year...he is the best I've seen in forty years . I've been doing this, fllowing the NFL draft, a very, very ,long time. Since Bushbaum and Sid Bream were on KTRH. Don't wanna take my word for it fine. I called it four months ago. We'll see how long it takes you guys to get on board. I'm not just throwing stuff on the wall and seeing if it sitcks. These two are the real deal.

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 10:57 AM
In that case I'm available for leasons. You've missed very badly here. My advise...befor your grand kids see this in the future, erase your posts so they won't see what a jackass you made of yourself. Stuborn is one thing...stupid is another.

What are you talking about? Your're basically doing what everyone else was doing with RB last year......... crowning the guy a legend before he even steps on the field with other pros. (evidenced by your Jerry Rice comment above). & I'm stupid b/c i don't think that he's the # 1 overall prospect in the draft? Come on buddy, did it really hurt you that bad? Is CJ you're nephew or something? Good grief some people....

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 11:04 AM
What are you talking about? Your're basically doing what everyone else was doing with RB last year......... crowning the guy a legend before he even steps on the field with other pros. (evidenced by your Jerry Rice comment above). & I'm stupid b/c i don't think that he's the # 1 overall prospect in the draft? Come on buddy, did it really hurt you that bad? Is CJ you're nephew or something? Good grief some people....

You need ...badly to look up my posts....you've painted me with a broad brush that isn't true. I stand on my reputation. Seriously...you need to go back and delete your posts on this thread. You're only going to look very foolish in the future.


Don't believe me...believe this:



http://www.draftace.com/draft2007/mockdraftround1.htm
In other words the Raiders might pass up an elite QB prospect, who fits thier team vertical passing scheme better than anyone in recent memory, a rocket armed, acurate, 260 pound freak of nature porspect, because Calvin Johnson isn't just good. He's danged good.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=32991
01/19/07 - You've heard it before, but if you were going to build an NFL player . . . he would look like Johnson at wideout. Some teams will make him the top prospect on the board. He couldn't have possibly helped his draft standing by returning for his senior year; he can't go any higher. At roughly 6-foot-5, 235 pounds with top-end speed, top-end hands and a vertical leap that has been tested over 40 inches, he is a next-generation player who is also low maintenance off the field. He's bigger and faster than Terrell Owens in his prime, without the headaches. And with defensive backs usually circling around him like gnats at a picnic, Johnson still caught 76 passes for 1,202 yards and 15 touchdowns playing in the 10th-rated passing attack in the Atlantic Coast Conference in 2006. A wide receiver hasn't been the first pick of the draft since Keyshawn Johnson was taken by the Jets at No. 1 in 1996, and only twice since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970 has a wide receiver gone No. 1 - Johnson and Irving Fryar in 1984. - Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News

http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007702100329
Johnson, who finished his college career with 2,297 yards and 28 touchdowns in just three seasons, was the offensive catalyst to Georgia Tech's run to the ACC Championship Game in December. Although the season didn't end the way he would have liked because of three consecutive losses to rival Georgia, Wake Forest and then West Virginia in the Gator Bowl, he raised his NFL stock even higher. The junior finished the 2006 season with 1,202 yards and 15 touchdowns.

"A lot of people say you haven't seen nothing yet because he hasn't been in a situation yet where he's had a Peyton Manning or someone on that level throwing to him," said his dad, Calvin Sr.

Johnson has spent the past two weeks training under Tom Shaw at the Disney World of Sports complex to prepare for the NFL Combine.


http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=8&c=1&nid=2006131&refid=4345
http://georgiatech.scout.com/2/595849.html
This season, he was named the league's offensive back of the week four times and was the only unanimous selection on the all-ACC team released Monday -- making him the first three-time all-ACC first-team pick in school history.

"I've produced more this year than I did my previous two years, so I consider that a success," Johnson said. "I'm striving for good games in those last two games and then I'll rate my season."

All that production comes in a 6-foot-5, 235-pound frame that boasts 4.3 speed and a 45-inch vertical jump. His ability to stretch the field helped a Georgia Tech offense that ranked among the league's best, ranking third with 324.2 total yards per game and fourth with 25.7 points.

"This is a guy that has the ability to not only out jump you, but he's got the chance to run past you," Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe said. "That's always your worst nightmare.

"You can feel like you played him pretty good and not realize that you've not only given up quite a few yards, but some points. That's what he brings to their offense. He gives them a chance to, on any snap, get


Enough ? Calf rope ?

SamuraiSword
02-15-2007, 11:10 AM
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/02/14/Bucs/Georgia_Tech_s_Johnso.shtml



If true, he is going to be the #1 pick. You do not pass on someone that big and fast.

Now if Calvin Johnson drops to #8 we should get that guy! Then we can have the Johnson&Johnson duos at wide receiver!!!!

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 11:49 AM
You need ...badly to look up my posts....you've painted me with a broad brush that isn't true. I stand on my reputation. Seriously...you need to go back and delete your posts on this thread. You're only going to look very foolish in the future.

http://www.draftace.com/draft2007/mockdraftround1.htm
In other words the Raiders might pass up an elite QB prospect, who fits thier team vertical passing scheme better than anyone in recent memory, a rocket armed, acurate, 260 pound freak of nature porspect, because Calvin Johnson isn't just good. He's danged good.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=32991

Dude, trust me it's not that serious, it certainly won't be the first time i've looked foolish on something. & just b/c I think that he's not the hands down # 1 draft prospect, doesn't mean that he still can't be good-great. I don't care what a draft website says b/c as far as i'm concerned they're in the same boat as you, me Kastofna any other person doing a mock draft, they just get paid to do it.

How many guys have emerged outside of the 1st round, let alone the top 10 to be great?

how many guys have put up spectacular college & combine stats only to be rendered "mortal" in their careers as pros.

I'm not questioning your reputation, i'm sure your good at what you do, b/c that's what you do, but like i said in a previous post i just prefer to watch him through his career rather than speculate before he even finds out what team he plays for.

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 12:13 PM
Dude, trust me it's not that serious, it certainly won't be the first time i've looked foolish on something. & just b/c I think that he's not the hands down # 1 draft prospect, doesn't mean that he still can't be good-great. I don't care what a draft website says b/c as far as i'm concerned they're in the same boat as you, me Kastofna any other person doing a mock draft, they just get paid to do it.

How many guys have emerged outside of the 1st round, let alone the top 10 to be great?

how many guys have put up spectacular college & combine stats only to be rendered "mortal" in their careers as pros.

I'm not questioning your reputation, i'm sure your good at what you do, b/c that's what you do, but like i said in a previous post i just prefer to watch him through his career rather than speculate before he even finds out what team he plays for.
I warned ya. GL.

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 01:22 PM
I don't really see why sooo many people disagree that CJ is the top prospect. I understand people have different points of view. But most of these people probably have never seen Jamarcus Russell play except maybe this years sugar bowl. Don't get me wrong, I think JR is a very good player and has a lot of potential...but I don't see him as being a better athlete/player than CJ. I think JR has so much hype right now...probably more than RB did last year...maybe not on the media right now but people making mocks, this board, and other message boards around the internet...i think he is being hyped a whole lot.

Jamarcus Russell- Biggest thing about him is his Canon of an arm. He has great size and is very hard to 'bring down'. Not very fast or mobile despite many rumors going around-he is good enough w/ his feet to move around to avoid sacks and can throw decently on the run. doesn't have the speed that scares defenses but can get the first unlike a lot of qb's. Is still a raw talent and prospect. needs to better his technique and decision making for the pros. Is very smart as far as a coaching stand point and knowing the x's and o's.

As you can tell by my thoughts on JR, I think very highly of him. But I don't really see him as the best player in the draft. He still has too much to work on to be great where as once Calvin Johnson steps on the field I think he'll instantly be one of the best WR's currently in the nfl. the qb position obviously is different than wr, but none the less...CJ is the real deal imo. I think he's a better passer and has more football smarts than VY, but he won't make a 40 yd TD run in OT to beat you...he doesnt have that threat.

I also might regret saying this but I think Russell is more likely to bust or at least dissappoint in the nfl more than VY, Matt leinart, or Jay Cutler. Now is JR one of the better prospects this draft and should he be drafted top 5? of course. Should oakland draft him 1 overall? maybe-it wouldn't be a bad pick for them. JR still has too much to learn and has to grown a lot more. That's why he isn't the #1 player in this draft. Calvin Johnson without of doubt is the best player although he may not go #1. just my honest opinion.

real
02-15-2007, 01:31 PM
Jamarcus Russel has decent speed, and he looked pretty moblie in the pocket everytime I saw him play.

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 01:48 PM
I don't really see why sooo many people disagree that CJ is the top prospect. I understand people have different points of view. But most of these people probably have never seen Jamarcus Russell play except maybe this years sugar bowl. Don't get me wrong, I think JR is a very good player and has a lot of potential...but I don't see him as being a better athlete/player than CJ. I think JR has so much hype right now...probably more than RB did last year...maybe not on the media right now but people making mocks, this board, and other message boards around the internet...i think he is being hyped a whole lot.

Jamarcus Russell- Biggest thing about him is his Canon of an arm. He has great size and is very hard to 'bring down'. Not very fast or mobile despite many rumors going around-he is good enough w/ his feet to move around to avoid sacks and can throw decently on the run. doesn't have the speed that scares defenses but can get the first unlike a lot of qb's. Is still a raw talent and prospect. needs to better his technique and decision making for the pros. Is very smart as far as a coaching stand point and knowing the x's and o's.

As you can tell by my thoughts on JR, I think very highly of him. But I don't really see him as the best player in the draft. He still has too much to work on to be great where as once Calvin Johnson steps on the field I think he'll instantly be one of the best WR's currently in the nfl. the qb position obviously is different than wr, but none the less...CJ is the real deal imo. I think he's a better passer and has more football smarts than VY, but he won't make a 40 yd TD run in OT to beat you...he doesnt have that threat.

I also might regret saying this but I think Russell is more likely to bust or at least dissappoint in the nfl more than VY, Matt leinart, or Jay Cutler. Now is JR one of the better prospects this draft and should he be drafted top 5? of course. Should oakland draft him 1 overall? maybe-it wouldn't be a bad pick for them. JR still has too much to learn and has to grown a lot more. That's why he isn't the #1 player in this draft. Calvin Johnson without of doubt is the best player although he may not go #1. just my honest opinion.

Agreed Old Miss. I'm seeing the same things in Russel as you and a lot of other guys are. You only get in the position to draft a perfect guy for your offensive system only a few times in franchise history. Can Al pass it up ? I coulnd't resist that's for sure.

I understand a lot of folks have trouble equating college top tallent to the NFL jump. It is a hugh casim. Sometimes folks just don't have the raw physical tallent, or the mental make up to make that leap. I post stuff on Lynch...I'm not just posting out of hand. The guy is very tallented. But the facts are he does not live up (play) to his rep. In other words, even as a high college guy, a first round draft pick guy...there are questions about him. And if I can see that as an amateur doing this, what do you think the pro scout guys are doing...they're asking the same danged questions.

Now you got a team like the Raiders...A prospect Like Jamacus Russell on the the board ....fits the QB of a vertical offense that the radier have run for forty years...to a tee, with Randy Moss a former first round rated guy on the team already and their is still talk that CJ is still in the running for #1 over all. There's only been two picked since the merger #1 over all at the WR postition. I mean if nothing else that sould give you a hint at the guys rated atheltism..rated by the NFL scouts. He's not just a good WR out of the prospects this draft....you could make the arguement he would be rated a top three pick in any draft, in any era. I don't know for a fact that he will catch Jerry Rice or Marvin Harrison. I don't know if he'll ever play with a HOFer QB. Or even a decent QB. What I do know, that the guy will make a lot of deffensive coordinators loose a lot of sleep durring his career. I believe he is a more polsihed prospect than Andre Johnson was coming out. I don't think there will be a learning curve like Andre Johnson had. He's faster , bigger, stronger and more acrobatic than A.J. Where did A.J. go in the draft ? The guy is a lock.

rmartin65
02-15-2007, 02:06 PM
He is gonna be fun to watch. There is no way he drops to 8, but one can dream.

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 02:31 PM
He does have pretty good pocket prescence and can move around well which is what one would want in a qb....he doesn't have the scrambling ability that a lot of people are making it out to be....there is quite a diff.

And yes he's really going to be fun to watch. I have a feeling he's going to be on sportcenter a few times throwing the ball 70yds in the air to a wide open receiver for a TD. I think he'd look good in a raiders uni.

That'd be nice if he fell to 8 but cleveland sounds like they really like him..which means AP might fall to us....oakland is gonna make this draft interesting.

Mr teX
02-15-2007, 03:32 PM
He does have pretty good pocket prescence and can move around well which is what one would want in a qb....he doesn't have the scrambling ability that a lot of people are making it out to be....there is quite a diff.

And yes he's really going to be fun to watch. I have a feeling he's going to be on sportcenter a few times throwing the ball 70yds in the air to a wide open receiver for a TD. I think he'd look good in a raiders uni.

That'd be nice if he fell to 8 but cleveland sounds like they really like him..which means AP might fall to us....oakland is gonna make this draft interesting.

yeah, Ol' Al just can't get out of his own way, unless he comes to his senses & takes a QB. Whether it's JM or BQ, they need 1 bad, cause i don't see it in Andrew Walter at all.

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 03:38 PM
I think Al will pass out come draft day because he's stayed awake for more than 8 hrs. Then the rest of his FO is extatic that they can take Russell and make the selection while Al is asleep. If all stays awake he may be grumbling gimme #21.

common_fan
02-15-2007, 06:57 PM
I'll bet that if Raiders pass on CJ, the Lions are going to pick him up, the fourth reciever selected in five years.

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 07:12 PM
This draft is going to be fun. It's going to be full of ....'DRAMA' !

kastofsna
02-15-2007, 07:14 PM
*sigh*

Trap_Star
02-15-2007, 08:22 PM
Reggie bush ran a 4.33, and Calvin never showed that kind of speed...

SF49erFaithful
02-15-2007, 11:24 PM
The thing is, these numbers aren't just thrown out there. They were just done like last week preparing for the combine. CJ has a better vert jump than listed as well. Indy is a fast surface.

They are not exagerated. He is very very good. He is a 9.0 prospect. And actually, the Indy RCA dome is a very fast track acording to Gill Brant and others. Gonna be hard for you watching this guy chasing down Jerry. I think he has a chance.

I'm not doubting how good of a prospect CJ is, but how do you know these numbers aren't exaggerated? I don't see any proof. It isn't uncommon for prospects' numbers to be inflated. If Johnson were to run at the combine I wouldn't count on him running under a 4.45. Not saying that that makes him any less of a prospect though.

threetoedpete
02-15-2007, 11:37 PM
Well we'll find out in spades next week. I've seen him, with the DBs having a serious angle on him, absolutly suraounding him btw, plain flat out run them into the end zone. And they had a seven yard head start. How fast is that ? I didn't have a stop watch on him nor am I smart enough to messure the screen and figure it out. What I do know from what I've seen, he runs as fast as he needs to. Unless he gets nervious or catches the flu or something...he's going to run a fine forty. A lot better than the 4.6 Jerry posted. He is just one of those guys the football gods reached down and blessed when he was in the womb. He's as fast as he wants to be.

run-david-run
02-16-2007, 12:38 AM
yeah, Ol' Al just can't get out of his own way, unless he comes to his senses & takes a QB. Whether it's JM or BQ, they need 1 bad, cause i don't see it in Andrew Walter at all.
Personaly I think the Raiders should take CJ, will probably take Russell. But has anyone considered them taking Joe Thomas? The worst offensive line combined with one of the best LT prospects in years...i know the Gallery stigma, but you cant stop drafting LT's because one hasnt worked out (and he was a pretty good RT, he could start there with Thomas at LT). I know most people claim you shouldnt draft on need (which i find stupid, because BPA is how you end up with a WR 3 staright years), but I think Thomas to the Raiders should at least be going through people's minds, especially when their offensive line was historically bad.

kastofsna
02-16-2007, 09:18 AM
Reggie bush ran a 4.33, and Calvin never showed that kind of speed...
riiight.

tulexan
02-16-2007, 09:19 AM
Reggie bush ran a 4.33, and Calvin never showed that kind of speed...

I thought Reggie ran closer to a 4.4

YoungTexanFan
02-16-2007, 10:36 AM
I'm not doubting how good of a prospect CJ is, but how do you know these numbers aren't exaggerated? I don't see any proof. It isn't uncommon for prospects' numbers to be inflated. If Johnson were to run at the combine I wouldn't count on him running under a 4.45. Not saying that that makes him any less of a prospect though.

He put up the same numbers after his Soph. year. When was the last time you saw him caught from behind? When was the last time you watched one of his games? When was the last time you researched his athletic ability?

amazingandre
02-16-2007, 11:10 AM
http://goldentornado.blogspot.com/2006/02/calvin-johnson-freak.html

there you go some info on him.......he consistently runs 4.3 40's........just some insight for some of you.......what if he is there at 8 do we grab him.......HELL YES!!!!!!!

Ole Miss Texan
02-16-2007, 11:56 AM
http://goldentornado.blogspot.com/2006/02/calvin-johnson-freak.html

there you go some info on him.......he consistently runs 4.3 40's........just some insight for some of you.......what if he is there at 8 do we grab him.......HELL YES!!!!!!!

Who's Nathan and is that from a blog? I know he's really fast but it's probably better to find a more reliable source or else the people who don't believe will just discount it. It's like taking something off of our posts.

If for some reason he falls to us which he won't. We have to take him. I would rather us take a different position. The two I don't want to see us take on the first day is TE and WR. that's it. But if CJ is there...he's the pick even though i'm fine with andre and moulds...jeez i'm trying to imagine if we actually had him! incredible.

DRAMA
02-16-2007, 01:10 PM
This draft is going to be fun. It's going to be full of ....'DRAMA' !

That's MY kind of draft!!!
:shades:

SF49erFaithful
02-17-2007, 03:50 AM
He put up the same numbers after his Soph. year. When was the last time you saw him caught from behind? When was the last time you watched one of his games? When was the last time you researched his athletic ability?

CJ is certainly a great athlete, but I'm sorry that just because I don't buy these outlandish reported numbers of CJ doesn't mean I'm a hater on him or whatever. In fact I'd probably say he is the best prospect in this year's draft.

Vinny
02-17-2007, 08:30 AM
Too many people look at raw linear speed or bench press totals at the combine (or like this pre-combine stuff) because it is hard to watch all the games...you can get into trouble trying to say a player can play based on combine numbers because the game has a physical dynamic that you just can't measure off of punt, pass, and kick totals. I don't trust much of the publicity workouts or the measurements their Colleges took of them because year in, year out they tend to be sensational and never duplicated. The combine is an unbiased stage where everything is measured uniformly so those figures carry more weight. That said, I've seen him play and he is very impressive. Johnson is a freak and is the best player at his position in this draft I think.

aj.
02-17-2007, 08:59 AM
Calvin is a freak. A can't miss prospect.

Sincerely,

Mike Williams

tulexan
02-17-2007, 09:19 AM
Calvin is a freak. A can't miss prospect.

Sincerely,

Mike Williams


Except Calvin Johnson didn't take a year off from football and is probably much faster. If anyone is Mike Williams its Dwayne Jarrett

Goldeagle
02-17-2007, 09:32 AM
If you go off of last year, this guy should be taken FIRST no matter what!

kastofsna
02-17-2007, 10:10 AM
Calvin is a freak. A can't miss prospect.

Sincerely,

Mike Williams
rofl, no one EVER considered mike williams even remotely as talented physically, athletically, or even as a player compared to calvin johnson. no one.

Lucky
02-17-2007, 10:42 AM
...you can get into trouble trying to say a player can play based on combine numbers because the game has a physical dynamic that you just can't measure off of punt, pass, and kick totals.
Don't forget the over-emphasis of the Wonderlic test scores, as well.

Sure, the NFL requires a certain level of athletic ability that can be partially determined by these tests. What just floors me, however, is the over analysis of the results by the so called “draft experts” and fans. Player A runs a 4.46 40 and Player B clocks a 4.51. “Well, that’s too bad for Player B. He needed to get under 4.5. Clearly, Player A is the superior prospect.” What? The difference between the two is a twentieth of a second. That’s less than 4 inches at the finish line. I know it’s a ‘game of inches’, but come on! That’s also running in shorts rather than in pads. And yes, there is a difference. Stronger players run faster in pads than weaker players.

Look at bench press results. Isn’t a player with 36” arm length doing more work than a player than a guy with 33” arms? What about size? Compare 2 players who come in each at 6’5” 300lbs. Are they the same? One could have more weight in his hips and lower body, where strength is most needed in the game. One could have 5% more body fat. It’s difficult to look at raw numbers and learn much regarding the differences in athletes. These combines and pro days are more of a pass/fail than an actual grade. And scouting is less of a science, and more of a ‘black art’.

There is my annual rant on the combine and pro days. Carry on with the 40 yard dash speculation.

beerlover
02-17-2007, 11:06 AM
COMBINE & WORKOUTS within the group for that position help define & rank a known prospects playing ability & skill set as demonstrated on the field. also gives teams time to do background checks, interview & address any character concerns. Higher ranking should reflect numbers/measureables that are solid within the group if not near head of the class. affords the opportunity for the GM/Coaching staff to personally visit & veiw prospects they we're unable to watch because of their own NFL season so its more or less just confirmation of scouting departments that have been on the road all season long, evaluating talent to see if everyone is in agreement & who they target. :twocents:

run-david-run
02-17-2007, 10:57 PM
Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 40.
Emmit Smith ran a 4.7 40.

The sooner people realize the combine is the single most overrated event in the football calander, the better.

Texian
02-17-2007, 11:07 PM
Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 40.
Emmit Smith ran a 4.7 40.

The sooner people realize the combine is the single most overrated event in the football calander, the better.

If you see a LB on tape that impresses and you go to the combine and he runs a 4.85, you say oh maybe not. If he runs a 4.75 you say, Oh about what I thought. If he runs a 4.65 you say, Oh better than I thought. Plus you got his medicals, an interview and all his measurables.

If you see DE on tape that impresses and you go to the combine and he lifts 225 lbs, 14 times you say, oh no, not what I thought, if he lifts 25 times, you say, about what I thought and if lifts 38 times you say, Oh wow much better than I thought.

This is what the combine is for. Verifying everything you think you see on tape.

BleedTheBurntOrange
02-17-2007, 11:20 PM
I agree that it verifies what you saw on tape but why would you think less of a player if he runs slower or lifts less than you thought? I mean if he makes plays why go for someone with better measurables?

Look at it this year Lawrence Timmons has been projected as high as 15 to the steelers cause hes so physically gifted and is projected as a better pro prospect.They have Patrick Willis at the bottom of the first round or even second round even though hes the heart of his teams D and makes every play he possible can.

Patrick Willis reminds me of Demeco Ryans as in hes not the fastest or strongest but he makes plays so why take potential over production?

run-david-run
02-18-2007, 03:21 PM
If you see a LB on tape that impresses and you go to the combine and he runs a 4.85, you say oh maybe not. If he runs a 4.75 you say, Oh about what I thought. If he runs a 4.65 you say, Oh better than I thought. Plus you got his medicals, an interview and all his measurables.

If you see DE on tape that impresses and you go to the combine and he lifts 225 lbs, 14 times you say, oh no, not what I thought, if he lifts 25 times, you say, about what I thought and if lifts 38 times you say, Oh wow much better than I thought.

This is what the combine is for. Verifying everything you think you see on tape.
Really? A differance of .2 seconds in gym shorts and sneakers is going to make the diffeance between you drafting player x after watching him play for 3 years? Never mind the fact that no position on the field, with the possible exception of WR, will ever run 40 yards straight up the field with no cuts or contact. Nevermind that you can have all the athletic ability in the world if you cant read a play correctly (LaVar Arrington, anyone?) or that fact that .2 seconds is a differance of inches over a distance of 40 yards.

Derrick Johnson ran the fastest time ever for a linebacker (if i remeber correctly). DeMeco was considered too small and a little slow. Care to compare their production?

kastofsna
02-19-2007, 08:40 AM
you're over-simplifying things. as if the 40 yard dash is the only event that takes place at the combine. jerry rice and emmitt smith, despite their slow 40's, had very fast 10 splits and showed other incredible athletic feats in the other events, such as the various jumps and whatnot. there aren't too many great players that weren't amazing athletes. there's nothing "overrated" about the combine, unless you oversimplify it, then you just look foolish. you can say the 40-time is overrated if ya want, but no one looks at just the 40-time, so who cares...

Vinny
02-19-2007, 09:06 AM
I agree that it verifies what you saw on tape but why would you think less of a player if he runs slower or lifts less than you thought? I mean if he makes plays why go for someone with better measurables?

Look at it this year Lawrence Timmons has been projected as high as 15 to the steelers cause hes so physically gifted and is projected as a better pro prospect.They have Patrick Willis at the bottom of the first round or even second round even though hes the heart of his teams D and makes every play he possible can.

Patrick Willis reminds me of Demeco Ryans as in hes not the fastest or strongest but he makes plays so why take potential over production?Why take potential over production? Because you are projecting players at the highest level and not projecting that they beat some overweight glorified HS player that will never get any better than he is in College. I could list a ton of highly productive NCAA players that won't ever sniff serious minutes in the Pros....guys like Timmy Chang, any Texas Tech QB and guys like JJ Arrington come to mind off the top of my head. Teams watch film, talk to coaches and confirm physical presence at the combines...all facets of this process are valid and needed.

run-david-run
02-19-2007, 11:40 AM
you're over-simplifying things. as if the 40 yard dash is the only event that takes place at the combine. jerry rice and emmitt smith, despite their slow 40's, had very fast 10 splits and showed other incredible athletic feats in the other events, such as the various jumps and whatnot. there aren't too many great players that weren't amazing athletes. there's nothing "overrated" about the combine, unless you oversimplify it, then you just look foolish. you can say the 40-time is overrated if ya want, but no one looks at just the 40-time, so who cares...

The main point of this thread is the 40 times, which is why i only mentioned that. Yes, some of the events at the combine help gauge a player's talent, but the draft is not a science, stop trying to turn it into one. Watch the players in games with pads on.

real
02-19-2007, 11:43 AM
Players who aren't somewhat physically gifted don't become good football players.

Players who are the most physically gifted, aren't neccessarily the best football players.


What don't y'all understand.....:crazy:

run-david-run
02-19-2007, 11:43 AM
Why take potential over production? Because you are projecting players at the highest level and not projecting that they beat some overweight glorified HS player that will never get any better than he is in College. I could list a ton of highly productive NCAA players that won't ever sniff serious minutes in the Pros....guys like Timmy Chang, any Texas Tech QB and guys like JJ Arrington come to mind off the top of my head. Teams watch film, talk to coaches and confirm physical presence at the combines...all facets of this process are valid and needed.

JJ Arrington was a high second round pick. After he did poorly his rookie season people assumed he was terrible, then Edge had the worst season of his career behind that same line...its not just the running backs. Also, some players, such as Texas Tech QB's, are part of a system that puts up gaudy passing stats (against UT, Tech had about 450 passing yards and 0 rushing yards). You dont need the combine to tell you they are part of a system that wont work in the pros, and not individually talented.

kastofsna
02-19-2007, 11:59 AM
The main point of this thread is the 40 times, which is why i only mentioned that. Yes, some of the events at the combine help gauge a player's talent, but the draft is not a science, stop trying to turn it into one. Watch the players in games with pads on.
and stop trying to make it absurdly simple. if you just "watched them with the pads on" you'll get plenty of busts and terrible players. the combine is a tool for talent evaluation, stop pretending it's completely worthless and the only thing that matters is game film of a player that's not nearly developed yet either physically or mentally for the NFL game. it's college. they're not a finished product. get it in your brain.

Mr teX
02-19-2007, 12:00 PM
The main point of this thread is the 40 times, which is why i only mentioned that. Yes, some of the events at the combine help gauge a player's talent, but the draft is not a science, stop trying to turn it into one. Watch the players in games with pads on.

That's really all i've been trying to say since the beginning of this thread.

The real question is where you draw the line between a player's Potential & Production. Last year MW & VY were taken slightly more off of their potential than production. Then you have guys like ML & even Carson Palmer who were more than anything, taken off of what they did in college.

kastofsna
02-19-2007, 12:01 PM
Then you have guys like ML & even Carson Palmer who were more than anything, taken off of what they did in college.
carson palmer was drafted #1 because he's one of the most prototypical quarterbacks ever to enter the NFL and had an amazing senior season to boot.

Mr teX
02-19-2007, 12:06 PM
carson palmer was drafted #1 because he's one of the most prototypical quarterbacks ever to enter the NFL and had an amazing senior season to boot.

Yeah i get that, but would you agree that his senior season helped propel him to where he was eventually drafted at more than anything else?

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2007, 01:26 PM
It's impossible to watch film and watch 'the player in pads' on every single collegiate player...or at least those entering the draft. It would be a waste of time anyways. The combine helps a lot because it gets a lot more of the players together to do the exact same drills so you can compare them side by side. Not what one did 2 years ago in bad weather and what one did this year in good weather.

When you're investing millions of dollars in your players you're going to do everything you can to make the right 'investment'. First day players typically get a lot more attention because typically they are better, and are a whole lot more likely to actually play for your team. How much film do you think they watched of mario williams? i'd say 1million hours..exaggeration. I feel very confident that they watched a lot of film on the guys they figured they would have a shot at and interested in. Film is great and they will probably watch it as much as they can ...but the combine is a great tool for every team to be at and study the players.

Lucky
02-19-2007, 02:10 PM
jerry rice and emmitt smith, despite their slow 40's, had very fast 10 splits and showed other incredible athletic feats in the other events, such as the various jumps and whatnot...
Do you have those numbers?

kastofsna
02-19-2007, 03:09 PM
Yeah i get that, but would you agree that his senior season helped propel him to where he was eventually drafted at more than anything else?
yup.

run-david-run
02-19-2007, 08:53 PM
Im not saying the combine is worthless, just overrated. A .2 second differance in unrealistic conditions shouldnt be the deciding factor in where a player is drafted. There are a lot more significant asspects to a player's performace then how fast they run, how high they jump, how many times they lift 225 lbs or how they throw and catch in unrealistic enviroments. Yes, such things as the interview process can be very helpfull, but Im just saying that people place way too much emphasis on the combine events. Also, when people train for months on end just for the combine, their numbers are going to be further inflated. 40 yards dosnt make a football player.

Ole Miss Texan
02-19-2007, 10:36 PM
Im not saying the combine is worthless, just overrated. A .2 second differance in unrealistic conditions shouldnt be the deciding factor in where a player is drafted. There are a lot more significant asspects to a player's performace then how fast they run, how high they jump, how many times they lift 225 lbs or how they throw and catch in unrealistic enviroments. Yes, such things as the interview process can be very helpfull, but Im just saying that people place way too much emphasis on the combine events. Also, when people train for months on end just for the combine, their numbers are going to be further inflated. 40 yards dosnt make a football player.

After thinking about it long and hard during my daily "Wal-Mart Run", I definitly get where you're coming from. I think we as fans...or at least some fans over emphasize the combine and numbers such as 40 times and bench press.

However I think the actual scouts and coaches look at it differently. I don't think they view it as a big of deal as some writers and fans may. At the end of the day I think the coach, when comparing two or three players to select, will look more towards the film...If a guy benchpresses say 3 less times, and runs a 4.5 instead of a 4.45 , he doesn't get the bump for the next guy if he's a more sound football player. I think fans can be too big on the numbers that you're alluding too...I definitly agree with that.

run-david-run
02-19-2007, 11:48 PM
After thinking about it long and hard during my daily "Wal-Mart Run", I definitly get where you're coming from. I think we as fans...or at least some fans over emphasize the combine and numbers such as 40 times and bench press.

However I think the actual scouts and coaches look at it differently. I don't think they view it as a big of deal as some writers and fans may. At the end of the day I think the coach, when comparing two or three players to select, will look more towards the film...If a guy benchpresses say 3 less times, and runs a 4.5 instead of a 4.45 , he doesn't get the bump for the next guy if he's a more sound football player. I think fans can be too big on the numbers that you're alluding too...I definitly agree with that.

And this make further sense when you consider how little the average fan sees of the player in question. How many of us saw DeMeco play on a consitant basis in college? I saw a couple of Alabama games, but watched the ball more then any specific player. As a result, when it comes to combine time and you see somone like Ernie Simms put up faster 40 times or more bench reps or whatever else is deemed significant for a linebacker, the value of those numbers is overstated because it is the only tangible comparison we have to make between players. As you said in your post, there is a different perspective for scouts, but unfortunately,we are not privelleged to it.