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View Full Version : Could Bucs trade for Carr


Bucsbum
02-14-2007, 06:19 PM
Yes I am A Buccaneer fan here in Tampa. There is a lot of talk and speculation that the Bucs have an interest in Carr. As Texan fans what do you see being a fare trade for Carr:doot:

Dime
02-14-2007, 06:27 PM
Yes I am A Buccaneer fan here in Tampa. There is a lot of talk and speculation that the Bucs have an interest in Carr. As Texan fans what do you see being a fare trade for Carr:doot:

Personally, I think a second isnt unfair, but at minumum, a third. Some will state lower, but I think it will be a third at the end of the day though.

Silver Oak
02-14-2007, 06:30 PM
You came to the wrong place for an unbiased opinion fella.

You can book it that the next few replies to your question will not be in favor of Carr. I hope we keep him with a better supporting cast so we can make sure, but I'm in the minority I think.

A question for you though....what is the word that TB going to do with Simms? Let him compete with Carr for the starting job?

brewhaus
02-14-2007, 06:33 PM
Yes I am A Buccaneer fan here in Tampa. There is a lot of talk and speculation that the Bucs have an interest in Carr. As Texan fans what do you see being a fare trade for Carr:doot:

Didn't the Bucs just re-up Chris Simms? Maybe it is a motivational ploy.......anyway, we really need O-Line and D-Back help. So, I'm thinking Dennis Roland + a second round pick.

Grid
02-14-2007, 06:37 PM
Based on Carr's potential.. it will have to be a first day pick. And a "second stringer" or "low grade starter" may be packaged with it.. depending on when the pick is.

Arky
02-14-2007, 06:43 PM
You came to the wrong place for an unbiased opinion fella.

You can book it that the next few replies to your question will not be in favor of Carr. I hope we keep him with a better supporting cast so we can make sure, but I'm in the minority I think.




I am in agreement with this. I don't believe it is a minority so much - rather more like Squeaky Wheel Central ...

TEXANS84
02-14-2007, 06:46 PM
We'll take Rice for Carr.

Bucsbum
02-14-2007, 06:47 PM
You came to the wrong place for an unbiased opinion fella.

You can book it that the next few replies to your question will not be in favor of Carr. I hope we keep him with a better supporting cast so we can make sure, but I'm in the minority I think.

A question for you though....what is the word that TB going to do with Simms? Let him compete with Carr for the starting job?

Yes gruden still likes the kid he showed a lot of heart. Simms has maybe the best deep ball pass in the NFL. However Simms has way to long of a release when it comes to the short pass it is easily knocked down at the line. gruden thinks he can coach him out of that habbit.

However Simms can be stuborn and might fall back to bad habbits under pressure situations. Simms is going to have to compete for a job this year

HoustonFrog
02-14-2007, 06:49 PM
You came to the wrong place for an unbiased opinion fella.

You can book it that the next few replies to your question will not be in favor of Carr. I hope we keep him with a better supporting cast so we can make sure, but I'm in the minority I think.

A question for you though....what is the word that TB going to do with Simms? Let him compete with Carr for the starting job?

Again, I don't get this sentiment. I think alot of the people who are for Carr being let go or traded have very valid reasons and are actually looking at the betterment of the team and not just concentrating on one guy. From someone who has been here in the year range I would say there are alot more people blindly ignoring what we have at the position.

As for a deal with TB. I'm up in the air. I heard yesterday that they haev faith in Simms and thus reupped but I also heard that Gruden isn't sold on him.

Bucsbum
02-14-2007, 06:53 PM
What if we had the third pick in the draft
what if you gave us your 8th pick and 40th pick plus carr and we gave you the third pick :marionaner:

Texian
02-14-2007, 06:53 PM
You can have him for a 4th RD pick conditional on it becoming a 2nd pick if Carr plays in 50% of the Bucs games.

HoustonFrog
02-14-2007, 07:04 PM
You can him for a 4th RD pick conditional on it becoming a 2nd pick if Carr plays in 50% of the Bucs games.

That is a good idea.

Silver Oak
02-14-2007, 07:23 PM
Again, I don't get this sentiment. I think alot of the people who are for Carr being let go or traded have very valid reasons and are actually looking at the betterment of the team and not just concentrating on one guy. From someone who has been here in the year range I would say there are alot more people blindly ignoring what we have at the position.

As for a deal with TB. I'm up in the air. I heard yesterday that they haev faith in Simms and thus reupped but I also heard that Gruden isn't sold on him.

Sorry Frog...an earlier registration date on a website doesn't lend any more validity to your argument than anyone elses.

I'm in favor of putting the best person we can get at that position. Trading DC, releasing him, or whatever else the lynch squad has in store for him is not necessarily what is best for this team. Upgrading the talent on the team as a whole and then making a DC decision is more agreeable to me.

HoustonFrog
02-14-2007, 08:13 PM
Sorry Frog...an earlier registration date on a website doesn't lend any more validity to your argument than anyone elses.

I'm in favor of putting the best person we can get at that position. Trading DC, releasing him, or whatever else the lynch squad has in store for him is not necessarily what is best for this team. Upgrading the talent on the team as a whole and then making a DC decision is more agreeable to me.

My remark had nothing to do with how long I have been here, thus giving it more validity. It was a remark regarding that for a year I have seen the pro-Carr stance become more and more rigid with more and more excuses. People seem to ignore the rationale behind commenting on what is best for the team.

The "lynch squad" type comments is what gives your remarks less weight. Many people here don't dislike Carr personally. If you watched football around the league or for any amount of years you'd know that the league is a parity filled one where the cap lays waste to many a team. Therefore you need players that can succeed in adverse situations and with less then perfect settings. It is unrealistic to sit here and think, after 5 years, that you can wait for the perfect line, TE, WRS, coach, RB, etc in order to make ONE player better. The QB is one of the most important positions in sports and he should be making others better. It also would be nice to say that we have seen improvements in basics of QB'ing. However we still see a guy who can't handle not staring down receivers and not getting rid of the ball outside the pocket. This is just to start.

Add to this the fact that many people are calling for him to stay and for there to be at least a competition. Yet these same people fail to answer simple questions related to this problem. Mainly, how is this going to make us better?If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake and will want to get him in the game. If Carr wins out you will have boos and the other faction wanting the backup. It is bad for the team, the city and for a 2nd year coach trying to make a mark.

All of these things are based in sound logic and have nothing to do with whether people dislike Carr. Throwing out weak names and claiming that people are just unbiased is simply not true.

The best thing to do taking this all into consideration is to split ways and hope that both parties succeed and get a fresh start instead of this stale debate continuing.

hollywood_texan
02-14-2007, 08:26 PM
My remark had nothing to do with how long I have been here, thus giving it more validity. It was a remark regarding that for a year I have seen the pro-Carr stance become more and more rigid with more and more excuses. People seem to ignore the rationale behind commenting on what is best for the team.

The "lynch squad" type comments is what gives your remarks less weight. Many people here don't dislike Carr personally. If you watched football around the league or for any amount of years you'd know that the league is a parity filled one where the cap lays waste to many a team. Therefore you need players that can succeed in adverse situations and with less then perfect settings. It is unrealistic to sit here and think, after 5 years, that you can wait for the perfect line, TE, WRS, coach, RB, etc in order to make ONE player better. The QB is one of the most important positions in sports and he should be making others better. It also would be nice to say that we have seen improvements in basics of QB'ing. However we still see a guy who can't handle not staring down receivers and not getting rid of the ball outside the pocket. This is just to start.

Add to this the fact that many people are calling for him to stay and for there to be at least a competition. Yet these same people fail to answer simple questions related to this problem. Mainly, how is this going to make us better?If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake and will want to get him in the game. If Carr wins out you will have boos and the other faction wanting the backup. It is bad for the team, the city and for a 2nd year coach trying to make a mark.

All of these things are based in sound logic and have nothing to do with whether people dislike Carr. Throwing out weak names and claiming that people are just unbiased is simply not true.

The best thing to do taking this all into consideration is to split ways and hope that both parties succeed and get a fresh start instead of this stale debate continuing.

Very well saif Frog Man!

Why would Tampa trade for Carr?

Simms is signed for a $2 million or so. I believe Carr is going to make around $5 million under his current contract. Looking at it from a financial perpsective, is Carr going to be 2.5 times better than Simms?

I don't think Carr is going anywhere via a trade. To a certain extent it is a buyer's market out there for questionable QBs unless somebody gets really motivated. I believe teams will just take their chances, which means they wait to see if he gets cut, let him clear waivers, and then negotiatate a new deal from there. Carr is just too expensive from a contract perspective and you really don't have to give up a draft pick to give him because he really isn't worth it. Teams will just wade it out...

Silver Oak
02-14-2007, 09:13 PM
It was a remark regarding that for a year I have seen the pro-Carr stance become more and more rigid with more and more excuses. People seem to ignore the rationale behind commenting on what is best for the team.

Therefore you need players that can succeed in adverse situations and with less then perfect settings. It is unrealistic to sit here and think, after 5 years, that you can wait for the perfect line, TE, WRS, coach, RB, etc in order to make ONE player better.
If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake and will want to get him in the game. If Carr wins out you will have boos and the other faction wanting the backup. It is bad for the team, the city and for a 2nd year coach trying to make a mark.



Mine is not a pro Carr stance, but a pro Texans stance. Changing things up just to give a "fresh start" is a kind of pie-in-the-sky way of looking at things.

bigTEXan8
02-14-2007, 09:20 PM
i wouldn't mind seeing carr getting traded, just because i hate what the organization has done to him. things were lookin' good in '04, when he had 3500+ passing yards, 16 TDs, etc. after that, the organization just failed him miserably. 249 sacks in his career is f*ckin' ridiculous. if carr is a back-up for some team, i could care less. at least he'd be treated better than the way he has. jmo.

rickyb
02-14-2007, 09:25 PM
What if we had the third pick in the draft
what if you gave us your 8th pick and 40th pick plus carr and we gave you the third pick :marionaner:

I understand how this sounds great from your perspective, but no way in hades that this deal happens. Don't feel bad...I've heard similar suggestions from our folks (e.g., what if we trade our 8th to NE for their 2 1st rounders, etc.).

The Texans have too many holes to fill to be talking of trading UP and losing picks. :shades:

thunderkyss
02-14-2007, 09:25 PM
Yes I am A Buccaneer fan here in Tampa. There is a lot of talk and speculation that the Bucs have an interest in Carr. As Texan fans what do you see being a fare trade for Carr:doot:

As a friend, I strongly recommend you go another Direction.

Tampa's offense relies on the run game as much as ours does. Carr needs to be in an offense more like the Rams, or the colts, where the run game is reliant on the passing game.

He needs a spread offense.

Now, if you persist...... gimme Simeon Rice, and we'll trade thirds & call it even.

thunderkyss
02-14-2007, 09:42 PM
Mine is not a pro Carr stance, but a pro Texans stance. Changing things up just to give a "fresh start" is a kind of pie-in-the-sky way of looking at things.

Mine is a pro Texans stance as well. How long can we keep what good players we have on this team, if we keep catering to the one position that is supposed to make the other positions better.

Wand was our best LT this preseason..... but we had to let him go.

why??

Robaire has been our best DT since he got here...... but we couldn't keep him on the team......... why??

Dunta has already shot his mouth off, how much longer can we keep him??

How bad will it look when we have to franchise Andre to prolong his career as a Texan, then he leaves, to play with another team for less money.


Not me, but there have been fans wanting to replace David for a long time. That group has been growing & growing. through so many years of no action, some guys are willing to take anything in his place.

Personally, I can't believe David played the way he played this year, knowing he had something to prove.

TwinSisters
02-14-2007, 09:42 PM
yeah great... we get Rice and Plummer back together for another miracle run for all the gold.

1998 all over again

I believe in love after love...

cuppacoffee
02-14-2007, 09:44 PM
My remark had nothing to do with how long I have been here, thus giving it more validity. It was a remark regarding that for a year I have seen the pro-Carr stance become more and more rigid with more and more excuses. People seem to ignore the rationale behind commenting on what is best for the team.

The "lynch squad" type comments is what gives your remarks less weight. Many people here don't dislike Carr personally. If you watched football around the league or for any amount of years you'd know that the league is a parity filled one where the cap lays waste to many a team. Therefore you need players that can succeed in adverse situations and with less then perfect settings. It is unrealistic to sit here and think, after 5 years, that you can wait for the perfect line, TE, WRS, coach, RB, etc in order to make ONE player better. The QB is one of the most important positions in sports and he should be making others better. It also would be nice to say that we have seen improvements in basics of QB'ing. However we still see a guy who can't handle not staring down receivers and not getting rid of the ball outside the pocket. This is just to start.

Add to this the fact that many people are calling for him to stay and for there to be at least a competition. Yet these same people fail to answer simple questions related to this problem. Mainly, how is this going to make us better?If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake and will want to get him in the game. If Carr wins out you will have boos and the other faction wanting the backup. It is bad for the team, the city and for a 2nd year coach trying to make a mark.

All of these things are based in sound logic and have nothing to do with whether people dislike Carr. Throwing out weak names and claiming that people are just unbiased is simply not true.

The best thing to do taking this all into consideration is to split ways and hope that both parties succeed and get a fresh start instead of this stale debate continuing.

Rationale about Carr went out the window long ago.

The rational thing to do is to sit back and let the coaches and gm run the team.

Lynch squad? That's a nice way of putting it in my opinion. He was being generous.

Don't like Carr personally? Get real here. Are we reading the same MB.
Count the number of personal insults hurled his way on this board. Cute wordplay with his name, cutsey insults about his appearance and family, and the most detestable so far " a cancer on the team" and that is just a minute sample.

People don't answer the simple questions Wrong again. Many people have answered the questions to your percieved problems, you just don't like/agree with the answers.

If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake :rofl: Humm..Nostradamus is alive and well.

All of these things are based in sound logic :rofl: You call it logic. I call it opinion.

best thing to do ..Best for who? The Carr haters? I will leave it up to the coaches to decide what is best for this team, not a bunch of mb posters.

I choose to support our team and its players.

:coffee:

SamuraiSword
02-14-2007, 09:51 PM
Mine is a pro Texans stance as well. How long can we keep what good players we have on this team, if we keep catering to the one position that is supposed to make the other positions better.

Wand was our best LT this preseason..... but we had to let him go.

why??

Robaire has been our best DT since he got here...... but we couldn't keep him on the team......... why??

Dunta has already shot his mouth off, how much longer can we keep him??

How bad will it look when we have to franchise Andre to prolong his career as a Texan, then he leaves, to play with another team for less money.


Not me, but there have been fans wanting to replace David for a long time. That group has been growing & growing. through so many years of no action, some guys are willing to take anything in his place.

Personally, I can't believe David played the way he played this year, knowing he had something to prove.

amen bro! I give you a rep on that one! Well once I am able to give you rep anyway.

SamuraiSword
02-14-2007, 09:55 PM
Rationale about Carr went out the window long ago.

The rational thing to do is to sit back and let the coaches and gm run the team.

Lynch squad? That's a nice way of putting it in my opinion. He was being generous.

Don't like Carr personally? Get real here. Are we reading the same MB.
Count the number of personal insults hurled his way on this board. Cute wordplay with his name, cutsey insults about his appearance and family, and the most detestable so far " a cancer on the team" and that is just a minute sample.

People don't answer the simple questions Wrong again. Many people have answered the questions to your percieved problems, you just don't like/agree with the answers.

If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake :rofl: Humm..Nostradamus is alive and well.

All of these things are based in sound logic :rofl: You call it logic. I call it opinion.

best thing to do ..Best for who? The Carr haters? I will leave it up to the coaches to decide what is best for this team, not a bunch of mb posters.

I choose to support our team and its players.

:coffee:


so did you support Robaire smith when he was on our team while he was doing ba? How about Tony Banks as well.....

Honoring Earl 34
02-14-2007, 10:06 PM
David don't go ... Tampa wants your spleen . :aikido:

Trap_Star
02-14-2007, 10:17 PM
David don't go ... Tampa wants your spleen . :aikido:

Yeah, well we dont want his gluteus maximus here...:bowser:

HJam72
02-14-2007, 10:17 PM
At this point, I'm down to judging only our head coach by improvement each year, which I will judge mainly just by wins and losses. He can do whatever he thinks is best with Carr.

HOOK'EM
02-14-2007, 10:47 PM
Personally, I think a second isnt unfair, but at minumum, a third. Some will state lower, but I think it will be a third at the end of the day though.

Yeah, I say a 3rd. Bloey Harrington got a 4th didn't he?

HoustonFrog
02-14-2007, 11:16 PM
Mine is not a pro Carr stance, but a pro Texans stance. Changing things up just to give a "fresh start" is a kind of pie-in-the-sky way of looking at things.

This is what gets me. How is everything I spelled out doing things just to get "a fresh start?" Everything I said is directly related to team chemistry and team execution. A Pie in the sky approach would be continuing to think that you can just keep adding pieces after 5 years and expect everything to magically fall in place. With todays NFL it is a pipe dream. We aren't supposed to be masking the inadequacies of our high paid QB.

HoustonFrog
02-14-2007, 11:28 PM
Rationale about Carr went out the window long ago.

The rational thing to do is to sit back and let the coaches and gm run the team.

Lynch squad? That's a nice way of putting it in my opinion. He was being generous.

Don't like Carr personally? Get real here. Are we reading the same MB.
Count the number of personal insults hurled his way on this board. Cute wordplay with his name, cutsey insults about his appearance and family, and the most detestable so far " a cancer on the team" and that is just a minute sample.

People don't answer the simple questions Wrong again. Many people have answered the questions to your percieved problems, you just don't like/agree with the answers.

If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake :rofl: Humm..Nostradamus is alive and well.

All of these things are based in sound logic :rofl: You call it logic. I call it opinion.

best thing to do ..Best for who? The Carr haters? I will leave it up to the coaches to decide what is best for this team, not a bunch of mb posters.

I choose to support our team and its players.

:coffee:

Nothing you said here answered any of my questions or put to rest any of the inadequacies. It basically contained general statements that painted the picture you want to see. Maybe you see the insults. Then why can't you respond properly when someone takes their time to write out a post without the insults?So by letting the GM and owner run the team we aren't supposed to have football based opinions?That is the reason for the board. I haven't seen one answer since I've been on the board as to why the competition would be good for the team or why it wouldn't cause the problems I presented. Your only way to answer it was to smart off about me being Nostadamus, ignoring the fact that I actually spelled out both sides of the argument saying that the other side would complain too. Part of supporting a team is also asking tough questions. Alot of people were here last year questioning Casserly and many people told us we didn't get it and we should step back while the real GMs worked. Well look how that worked out. Blindly following a team without asking questions is more dangerous then trying to look forward to what we can do to improve. My opinion isn't that it is the best thing for the Carr haters. I do believe that a new team, new attitude from fans and a new start would do Carr good. Now if I can just get people to answer football questions without general statements that are meant to belittle or skip the subject all together. I'm amazed that people compalin so much about the "haters" yet when someone doesn't hate they can't give them straight answers. Night.

Honoring Earl 34
02-14-2007, 11:31 PM
You leap frog .

cuppacoffee
02-14-2007, 11:46 PM
so did you support Robaire smith when he was on our team while he was doing ba? How about Tony Banks as well.....


Support wasn't warranted in their regard. Posters will give their opinions on players and critique their abilities. It's why we are here.

There was not the 'hatred' displayed against them that I have seen displayed against Carr.

Use the search feature, I challenge you to find one, just one post where I joined in the bashing of Robaire and Banks performance. Ain't gonna happen.

I kept out of the Carr debate until the hatred and downright viciousness reared its' ugly head.

Carr needs to impove his game, I've never denied this. I take exception to the unbridled hate displayed against him.

The two players you have singled out were deemed replaceable by our coaches, and Robaire and Banks are gone. It wasn't because mb posters raised up in protest against them.

If they were still here I would cheer for them because they would still be Texans.

I have used the "untouchableness" of Andre in a few posts to make a point about Carr not being the only one not living up to expectations, but I have not called for Andre to be vilified for it. It certainly isn't my only 'mission' in posting here.

There are fans and there are imposters. It will be a sad day when our roster is decided by mb popularity.

The same posters will attempt to turn any post on this site into an anti-Carr thread.

I may express preferences for different players but I will never display hatred against a Texan player.

I find it laughable that so many posters on this site feel they know more about football and the qb position than coach Kubiak.

As I have said so many times " I will support David Carr as long as he is the qb of the Houston Texans".

Opinionated mb posters will not intimidate me to change my position.

I hope this explains my position to you.

Tell me you didn't have a hidden agenda in asking about these two particular players.



:coffee:

TwinSisters
02-14-2007, 11:53 PM
Nothing you said here answered any of my questions or put to rest any of the inadequacies.

Blindly following a team without asking questions is more dangerous then trying to look forward to what we can do to improve.


I'll answer one.

There is no danger. I repeat, there is no danger.
http://spartanlion.com/
since 1996 at the very least and he is not dead.
over.

P.S. All though I guess I have to add that you could end up in hell burning for all eternity by being forced to cuss and swear too much when the team doesn't do what you forsee to be the best thing for improvement.

cuppacoffee
02-15-2007, 12:23 AM
My remark had nothing to do with how long I have been here, thus giving it more validity. It was a remark regarding that for a year I have seen the pro-Carr stance become more and more rigid with more and more excuses. People seem to ignore the rationale behind commenting on what is best for the team.

The "lynch squad" type comments is what gives your remarks less weight. Many people here don't dislike Carr personally. If you watched football around the league or for any amount of years you'd know that the league is a parity filled one where the cap lays waste to many a team. Therefore you need players that can succeed in adverse situations and with less then perfect settings. It is unrealistic to sit here and think, after 5 years, that you can wait for the perfect line, TE, WRS, coach, RB, etc in order to make ONE player better. The QB is one of the most important positions in sports and he should be making others better. It also would be nice to say that we have seen improvements in basics of QB'ing. However we still see a guy who can't handle not staring down receivers and not getting rid of the ball outside the pocket. This is just to start.

Add to this the fact that many people are calling for him to stay and for there to be at least a competition. Yet these same people fail to answer simple questions related to this problem. Mainly, how is this going to make us better?If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake and will want to get him in the game. If Carr wins out you will have boos and the other faction wanting the backup. It is bad for the team, the city and for a 2nd year coach trying to make a mark.

All of these things are based in sound logic and have nothing to do with whether people dislike Carr. Throwing out weak names and claiming that people are just unbiased is simply not true.

The best thing to do taking this all into consideration is to split ways and hope that both parties succeed and get a fresh start instead of this stale debate continuing.

Rationale about Carr went out the window long ago.

The rational thing to do is to sit back and let the coaches and gm run the team.

Lynch squad? That's a nice way of putting it in my opinion. He was being generous.

Don't like Carr personally? Get real here. Are we reading the same MB.
Count the number of personal insults hurled his way on this board. Cute wordplay with his name, cutsey insults about his appearance and family, and the most detestable so far " a cancer on the team" and that is just a minute sample.

People don't answer the simple questions Wrong again. Many people have answered the questions to your percieved problems, you just don't like/agree with the answers.

If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake :rofl: Humm..Nostradamus is alive and well.

All of these things are based in sound logic :rofl: You call it logic. I call it opinion.

best thing to do ..Best for who? The Carr haters? I will leave it up to the coaches to decide what is best for this team, not a bunch of mb posters.

I choose to support our team and its players.

:coffee:

Nothing you said here answered any of my questions or put to rest any of the inadequacies. It basically contained general statements that painted the picture you want to see. Maybe you see the insults. Then why can't you respond properly when someone takes their time to write out a post without the insults?So by letting the GM and owner run the team we aren't supposed to have football based opinions?That is the reason for the board. I haven't seen one answer since I've been on the board as to why the competition would be good for the team or why it wouldn't cause the problems I presented. Your only way to answer it was to smart off about me being Nostadamus, ignoring the fact that I actually spelled out both sides of the argument saying that the other side would complain too. Part of supporting a team is also asking tough questions. Alot of people were here last year questioning Casserly and many people told us we didn't get it and we should step back while the real GMs worked. Well look how that worked out. Blindly following a team without asking questions is more dangerous then trying to look forward to what we can do to improve. My opinion isn't that it is the best thing for the Carr haters. I do believe that a new team, new attitude from fans and a new start would do Carr good. Now if I can just get people to answer football questions without general statements that are meant to belittle or skip the subject all together. I'm amazed that people compalin so much about the "haters" yet when someone doesn't hate they can't give them straight answers. Night.

I re-read your post and found only one question and a bunch of opinion.

You stated.."Add to this the fact that many people are calling for him to stay and for there to be at least a competition. Yet these same people fail to answer simple questions related to this problem."

Q.."Mainly, how is this going to make us better?"

And then you proceeded to answer your own question with a prognastication

A. If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake and will want to get him in the game. If Carr wins out you will have boos and the other faction wanting the backup. It is bad for the team, the city and for a 2nd year coach trying to make a mark".

I have a question for you now...If Carr wins out the competition, why would you still boo and want the backup?

Good night...keep dreaming you know more about football and qbs than Kubiak.


:coffee:

GP
02-15-2007, 02:24 AM
Tampa Bay, Minnesota, and Houston are all in this QB dance if you ask me.

I like Brad Johnson's chances of exiting Minnesota (he hates it there) and re-joining Gruden for one last run. Gruden needs experience after banging his head on the wall with Simms and the rookie who took over when Simms was injured. PLUS, I saw how Gruden razzes his QBs constantly...David won't respond to that sort of motivation IMO.

If Brad goes to T.B., then I think David goes to Minnesota shortly thereafter.

David grew up in California (warm weather) and I think he would most likely prefer to play in Florida rather than the Frozen Tundra twice each year, Chicago twice each year, etc. I guess it's not that bad when you consider he'd play in the dome at home as well as against the Lions...but still, I would think he would be drawn to warmer climates.

I think Minnesota and Tampa Bay are the two teams that Rick Smith will not name (he said a few teams, or maybe he said "two" teams have spoken with the them about David).

IMO, we need to make the smart move with David at this point. A LOT of people here want him gone no matter what we get for him. I don't see the longterm success in that way of thinking. I think David builds MORE rep by staying with us, allowing us to draft a QB higher than we have in the past few years, and then waiting until training camp when other teams see just how bad their QB situation is and how much David might improve their situation.

The fans here who think the Houston teams are cursed (i.e. Oilers/Bills comeback game) also think that trading David will equal David doing well with another team and thus make the Texans look bad for dealing him away.

"First we passed on Bush, then on Vince, and then we traded David Carr who eventually went on to do great things for another team..." is how some might see it playing out. I can say that the thought sometimes crosses my mind. It's human nature.

My hope is that a deal is done that helps another team fill a void at QB, a team where David might actually be able to forget the past and thus finally reach his potential. AND at the same time, I hope it's a deal that gets us what we need in terms of draft position, etc.

There is a growing sense of urgency here on this board that David needs a change of scenery. There's a sense here that he's a part of the past that needs to be removed in order for us to reach the next level.

Not to rag on your team, but I honestly DO think that he's an upgrade over Simms. I watched Simms play earlier in the season, and I wasn't impressed at all. He was about as effective as Rex Grossman, but without the wins that Grossman unjustly accumulated.

Oh, and "Thanks for nothing" when I drafted Cadillac Williams in my FFL thinking he would be a legitimate no. 2 running back. Bust of the year, IMO. I kept thinking he'd turn the corner each week, and by week 5 I dropped him like a bad habit. In fact, I couldn't drop him any earlier because he was an undroppable for so long. Amazing. I am still angry about that...am I a loser, or what? (please don't answer that) I dredge up FFL nightmares so easily.

Tell Jeff Gruden I said, "$#!@%" (he'll know what that means).

Silver Oak
02-15-2007, 08:37 AM
Frog, I can tell you're as passionate about the team as anyone else and that is a great thing. We're just looking at it from two completely different angles but we want the same ultimate goal.....to WIN!

All questions about the direction of this team will be answered in the coming 75 days. The guessing is what drives this particular forum so I guess that's a good thing.

Go Texans!

cowboy62
02-15-2007, 09:11 AM
Yes I am A Buccaneer fan here in Tampa. There is a lot of talk and speculation that the Bucs have an interest in Carr. As Texan fans what do you see being a fare trade for Carr:doot:

a six pack of beer

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 09:12 AM
Frog, I can tell you're as passionate about the team as anyone else and that is a great thing. We're just looking at it from two completely different angles but we want the same ultimate goal.....to WIN!

All questions about the direction of this team will be answered in the coming 75 days. The guessing is what drives this particular forum so I guess that's a good thing.

Go Texans!

Well said. I don't really care if people support or don't support Carr. I just look it at from a standpoint of how I think the team will improve. Everyone has the same goal!Have a great one!

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 09:21 AM
I re-read your post and found only one question and a bunch of opinion.

You stated.."Add to this the fact that many people are calling for him to stay and for there to be at least a competition. Yet these same people fail to answer simple questions related to this problem."

Q.."Mainly, how is this going to make us better?"

And then you proceeded to answer your own question with a prognastication

A. If someone beats out Carr then the Carr faithful will clamor that he isn't given a fair shake and will want to get him in the game. If Carr wins out you will have boos and the other faction wanting the backup. It is bad for the team, the city and for a 2nd year coach trying to make a mark".

I have a question for you now...If Carr wins out the competition, why would you still boo and want the backup?

Good night...keep dreaming you know more about football and qbs than Kubiak.


:coffee:

Again, this completely makes your opinion useless. Do personal attacks make you feel better about yourself?Well, since I never attacked you, please refrain and grow up.

If you actually read the post, as you claim, you would see that I never said that I would boo. But if you actually saw games last year and saw the fans booing and if you actually have read the board and have seen how divided people are, it is easy to see what might happen if either Carr won out or a backup won out. You don't think people would be saying, "well if David had that protection, that type of running game, etc,e tc, he ould succeed." Or the minute say Carr has a bad game, people will start clamoring for Rosenfels. It happened last season. That is where I'm getting my info. It isn't something the team should be dealing with IMHO.

AGAIN, maybe we should just shut down the board since no one here is supposed to comment on the team considering we don't know anything compared to Kubiak or the GM....just like Casserly(rolling eyes)

Oh yeah, if you can respond about Carr's ability to do the simple things like throw the ball away outisde the pocket, fumbling, staring down receivers, etc I'd appreciate it.

2BCF
02-15-2007, 09:47 AM
I truly think only those that have a vested interest in Davey are the ones so adamant on keeping him here.
They gotta good thing going and want to keep the gravy train rollin'.

Those that want the franchise to improve realize it's time to part company with DC.

Texans Horror
02-15-2007, 10:03 AM
So, um, yeah...

Back to the question of what would make a fair deal for Carr-to-Tampa. While he has had his problems, I still think Carr is a better deal than Harrington. I think the Texans would like a second- or third-round pick next year, depending on how much he plays. Ideally, a fourth- or fifth-round pick this year, too.

dirty steve
02-15-2007, 10:09 AM
i see like the most likely pick coming back, if the team moves Carr, is a conditional 4th rd pick that could escalate based on playing time. i think a guaranteed 2nd or 3rd might be asking too much, not to say that a team wouldnt give it up if they felt Carr was worth it.

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 10:12 AM
i see like the most likely pick coming back, if the team moves Carr, is a conditional 4th rd pick that could escalate based on playing time. i think a guaranteed 2nd or 3rd might be asking too much, not to say that a team wouldnt give it up if they felt Carr was worth it.

Back to the question at hand, I agree completely. I don't see a 2nd of 3rd. Mid round is the best..a conditional 4th sounds about right.

cuppacoffee
02-15-2007, 10:38 AM
Again, this completely makes your opinion useless. Do personal attacks make you feel better about yourself?Well, since I never attacked you, please refrain and grow up.

If you actually read the post, as you claim, you would see that I never said that I would boo. But if you actually saw games last year and saw the fans booing and if you actually have read the board and have seen how divided people are, it is easy to see what might happen if either Carr won out or a backup won out. You don't think people would be saying, "well if David had that protection, that type of running game, etc,e tc, he ould succeed." Or the minute say Carr has a bad game, people will start clamoring for Rosenfels. It happened last season. That is where I'm getting my info. It isn't something the team should be dealing with IMHO.

AGAIN, maybe we should just shut down the board since no one here is supposed to comment on the team considering we don't know anything compared to Kubiak or the GM....just like Casserly.

Oh yeah, if you can respond about Carr's ability to do the simple things like throw the ball away outisde the pocket, fumbling, staring down receivers, etc I'd appreciate it.

Most peoples opinions are useless to others unless they are in agreement with each other.

Is questioning your opinion a personal attack? Personal attacks are whats happening to Carr on this mb.

Concerning my statement "I have a question for you now...If Carr wins out the competition, why would you still boo and want the backup?"

" You" in this sense meaning Texans fans in general, not 'you' in particular.
My mistake is thinking you would understand this.

Your statement "throw the ball away outisde the pocket, fumbling, staring down receivers, etc ." Is this the info you admit to getting from mb posters?

Its happened. Kubiak said he can fix it. You say he can't..:rolleyes:

"AGAIN, maybe we should just shut down the board since no one here is supposed to comment on the team considering we don't know anything compared to Kubiak or the GM....just like Casserly"
:rofl:

You wish to shut down the board because I disagree with your opinions?

You would like the board better if we all agreed with you?

Kinda sensitive don't you think?

I don't believe I am the one who needs to "grow up" as you so eloquently put it.

I'm moving on now. :backsout:

:coffee:

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 10:57 AM
Most peoples opinions are useless to others unless they are in agreement with each other.

Is questioning your opinion a personal attack? Personal attacks are whats happening to Carr on this mb.

Concerning my statement "I have a question for you now...If Carr wins out the competition, why would you still boo and want the backup?"

" You" in this sense meaning Texans fans in general, not 'you' in particular.
My mistake is thinking you would understand this.

Your statement "throw the ball away outisde the pocket, fumbling, staring down receivers, etc ." Is this the info you admit to getting from mb posters?
Its happened. Kubiak said he can fix it. You say he can't..:rolleyes:

"AGAIN, maybe we should just shut down the board since no one here is supposed to comment on the team considering we don't know anything compared to Kubiak or the GM....just like Casserly"
:rofl:

You wish to shut down the board because I disagree with your opinions?

You would like the board better if we all agreed with you?

Kinda sensitive don't you think?
I don't believe I am the one who needs to "grow up" as you so eloquently put it.

I'm moving on now. :backsout:

:coffee:

You have proven the point that you can't have a nomal football conversation without trying to make yourself feel better with smart aleck comments. It is obvious that some try and hide what they don't know regarding football by attacking others. As for the "you" and "I" comment, there is nothing you said that would lead anyone on the board to believe the excuse. The rest of your post is a bunch of the same and really makes no sense. There isn't anything in your responses that show you have an answer for anything and there isn't one football related response in any of them. No one said that people had to agree with each others statements. The fun part about this board is debate. It is just hard to debate with people who can't give football takes and whos only response is a "ROFL" or the response that "our coaches know more than you and can fix it." Debate involves 2 sides of an issue, not one side and another that likes to just tell the other they don't know what they are talking about. Thanks for proving my point. Enjoy. The minute you realize that some aren't here to belittle Carr but to talk football, the better off you will be.

TwinSisters
02-15-2007, 11:08 AM
Yes I am A Buccaneer fan here in Tampa. There is a lot of talk and speculation that the Bucs have an interest in Carr. As Texan fans what do you see being a fare trade for Carr:doot:

Why on earth is that?

You had Trent Dilfer for 5 or 6 years in a row. And if my memory serves me right, he was twice the fan base kryptonite Carr is ( without Vince Young ). Then you had Brad Johnson for another 3 or 4 years and moaned through that. Not to mention a stop with Griese. ( and also Testaverde was run out of town before Dilfer that started with Williams being run out of town )

Now there is speculation for Carr?

You guys must like to play it a little rough, if you know what I mean.

Just for trivia: The Tampa Bay offense has only one or two seasons in its entire history making enough points to be ranked above .500 in the league. ( that's 2 out of 30 years being in the bottom half of the league )

You might want to raise your bar a little on the QB position.

cuppacoffee
02-15-2007, 11:11 AM
i see like the most likely pick coming back, if the team moves Carr, is a conditional 4th rd pick that could escalate based on playing time. i think a guaranteed 2nd or 3rd might be asking too much, not to say that a team wouldnt give it up if they felt Carr was worth it.


Things being as they are I would agree that a 4th, escalating with playing time or some tie-in with stats, would be about the best we could hope for.

Trading Carr would require us to draft a replacement, there are no starting calibre qbs backing up Carr.

So, do we trade Carr before the draft and go into next year with what we have, or draft a project in the later rounds. I've seen Kolb and Stanton mentioned, but... idonno:

I doubt we will draft a qb at #8. I am expecting a D lineman there.

There is one qb I like, :winky: .but to avoid opening a huge can of worms I will refrain from 'pimping' for him.

:coffee:

thunderkyss
02-15-2007, 11:15 AM
Concerning my statement "I have a question for you now...If Carr wins out the competition, why would you still boo and want the backup?"


Its happened. Kubiak said he can fix it. You say he can't..:rolleyes:


If David wins out in the competition, then that means the organization is pretty inept at finding talent at the QB position. He looked bad in '05, & '06. High school level playing. If we can't find a QB who can recognize coverages, feel & escape pressure in the pocket, audible out of bad situations, and not telegraph passes then we need to hang it up. Period.

secondly, it's becoming more & more apparent that Kubiak doesn't care to fix it anymore.

texasguy346
02-15-2007, 11:44 AM
We'll take Rice for Carr.

A pound of rice seems like a fair trade for Carr, but I'm not picky I'd take a few magic beans for Carr as well.

El Tejano
02-15-2007, 11:56 AM
i see like the most likely pick coming back, if the team moves Carr, is a conditional 4th rd pick that could escalate based on playing time. i think a guaranteed 2nd or 3rd might be asking too much, not to say that a team wouldnt give it up if they felt Carr was worth it.

To me, the only problem with that is we are a team that needs alot of picks now because our depth is bad and we have alot of holes. Getting a conditional pick would mean we have to wait for next year.

thunderkyss
02-15-2007, 12:04 PM
Trading Carr would require us to draft a replacement, there are no starting calibre qbs backing up Carr.

:coffee:

Kind of bad thinking here......... this whole argument, is because many feel David is not starting Caliber himself. So it's basically a what have you got to lose kind of thing, & let's get something for him, while the get'n is good.

Honoring Earl 34
02-15-2007, 01:14 PM
Kind of bad thinking here......... this whole argument, is because many feel David is not starting Caliber himself. So it's basically a what have you got to lose kind of thing, & let's get something for him, while the get'n is good.

I agree with TK .... Maybe the rest of the team will play better with another QB . As of right now we average less than 5 wins ayear .

Navy_Chris
02-15-2007, 01:48 PM
i don't think we should just jump at a 4th rounder though. i mean, david carr sucks something awful, but he is still a gifted athelete with everything you could want from a qb physically.

and if we are just really looking out for more picks why not throw another player in for some another pick? or say david carr for a 4th round and houston/tampa bay switch 2nd round picks? would that be too much?

David Carr is a talented QB. With that being said, he doesn't have the heart to become one of the best. I think a trade with the Minnesota Vikings makes the mose sense. Minnesota is in desperate need of a talented QB. Brad Johnson has hit the wall and I don't think Childress is ready to name Tarvaris Jackson or Brooks Bollinger a starter at this point. Let's just pull the trigger on this one and get David Carr out of our minds forever.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 01:58 PM
We'll take Rice for Carr.

Rice is like 80 yrs old

Texan_Bill
02-15-2007, 01:59 PM
i don't think we should just jump at a 4th rounder though. i mean, david carr sucks something awful, but he is still a gifted athelete with everything you could want from a qb physically.

and if we are just really looking out for more picks why not throw another player in for some another pick? or say david carr for a 4th round and houston/tampa bay switch 2nd round picks? would that be too much?

YUP..... Too much.
No team "has" to give up anything for Carr.

The Texans, while making comments in the media about interest from other teams, also stated that "David Carr is our QB" only to preserve any bargaining / leverage that we may have. If a shrewd team's front office likes Carr, they would wait as long as possible and offer the very least for him.
Many teams will try to wait, forcing the Texans hand, and hoping that we get desperate to unload him anyway we can.

Remember, whoever trades for Carr would also have to honor his contract - unless Carr decided to re-work it with that team. So, for a team to trade for Carr, they would have to give up a draft choice and pay Carr 5.5 million. Thats a pick and a lot of money, given the circumstances.

If the Texans run out and sign the likes of (shoot me for saying this) Plummer, before Carr could be traded, then teams would wait for the Texans to cut Carr outright which would make him a FA, and all teams interested could simply bid for his services without giving up any picks and more than likely signing him to a deal worth less than his current contract.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 02:11 PM
Kind of bad thinking here......... this whole argument, is because many feel David is not starting Caliber himself. So it's basically a what have you got to lose kind of thing, & let's get something for him, while the get'n is good.

Lets face it, this whole argument is still taking place because the Texans did not take Vince last yr. Carr needs help, he cannot do it by himself. Sure there are some reads that he needs to improve on, but when our opponents can play with seven DBs and blitz the rest due to a lack of offensive weapons, the QB has no chance of success. Peyton Manning would have problems with out an o-line, running game, and MULTIPLE receiving threats.

real
02-15-2007, 02:16 PM
I can't believe that's still an argument.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 02:45 PM
I can't believe that's still an argument.

Vince will transend the position, he has shown flashes already. Many of the Texans fans have been hearing about him since high school and were offended that he was not a part of this team. The argument will go on for the rest of his career. Since David plays the same position, many people blame him that Vince is not a Texan, along w/ Casserly.

But it is the past, we can wish Vince the best without wishing failure on David. If people would actually turn the negativity into support, you may be amazed at the results. David is a better player than anyone we could aquire through trade or free agency. Unless there is some trade or draft magic up Kube's and Smith's sleeves, David is our best chance to succeed. Plummer had a complete team when he was with Kubes, David has not been that fortunate yet. Show me one QB that has taken the punishment Carr has that is still in the league and able to walk, he is very durable.

I'm sure all these people on the get rid of Carr bandwagon were all on the draft Reggie bandwagon last yr. Stop being fare weather fans and start supporting the TEAM.

Honoring Earl 34
02-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Lets face it, this whole argument is still taking place because the Texans did not take Vince last yr. Carr needs help, he cannot do it by himself. Sure there are some reads that he needs to improve on, but when our opponents can play with seven DBs and blitz the rest due to a lack of offensive weapons, the QB has no chance of success. Peyton Manning would have problems with out an o-line, running game, and MULTIPLE receiving threats.

It has nothing to do with Vince Young in my point of view .

We've been through the Manning could'nt do anything with this team . The problem is we've never tried to see what another QB could do so it's unsolved mysteries .

The backups have a higher winning % as starters than Carr does .

swtbound07
02-15-2007, 03:23 PM
Vince will transend the position, he has shown flashes already. Many of the Texans fans have been hearing about him since high school and were offended that he was not a part of this team. The argument will go on for the rest of his career. Since David plays the same position, many people blame him that Vince is not a Texan, along w/ Casserly.

But it is the past, we can wish Vince the best without wishing failure on David. If people would actually turn the negativity into support, you may be amazed at the results. David is a better player than anyone we could aquire through trade or free agency. Unless there is some trade or draft magic up Kube's and Smith's sleeves, David is our best chance to succeed. Plummer had a complete team when he was with Kubes, David has not been that fortunate yet. Show me one QB that has taken the punishment Carr has that is still in the league and able to walk, he is very durable.

I'm sure all these people on the get rid of Carr bandwagon were all on the draft Reggie bandwagon last yr. Stop being fare weather fans and start supporting the TEAM.


Wrong. Guess again. Thanks for playing though.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 03:47 PM
Wrong. Guess again. Thanks for playing though.

"World Class Potstirrer" huh? Your better off stirring another pot.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 03:49 PM
It has nothing to do with Vince Young in my point of view .

We've been through the Manning could'nt do anything with this team . The problem is we've never tried to see what another QB could do so it's unsolved mysteries .

The backups have a higher winning % as starters than Carr does .

Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 04:05 PM
Wrong. Guess again. Thanks for playing though.

Right and this was the point of my original post. There too many pointing fingers and saying people are just being sheep in one group. I didn't want Bush and I don't think Carr should be our QB. I also didn't want to draft VY. I was all for trading downa nd then taking D-line or a DB. The point is everyone has an opinion and everyone thinks this opinion will make the team better.

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 04:07 PM
Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.

That's flawed logic in my book. It may be easier for a team to have a bad QB and get there but not having a top flight QB is the exception, not the rule. If this was the case, there would be alot of Leaf's, etal lining up to play with some stacked teams. JMO. I just think we sometimes forget what goes into the position...cadences, playbook, reads, audibles, split second decisions, etc.

Navy_Chris
02-15-2007, 04:12 PM
Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.

Don't kid yourself. That's an insult to serious Texans fans.

Honoring Earl 34
02-15-2007, 04:20 PM
Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.

So lets just keep going in the wrong direction . I know I should have taken a right but I missed the turn so straight it is .

Arky
02-15-2007, 04:26 PM
So lets just keep going in the wrong direction . I know I should have taken a right but I missed the turn so straight it is .


Hey, if we can get to the SuperBowl and keep beyotching about the QB, it's win-win.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 04:57 PM
That's flawed logic in my book. It may be easier for a team to have a bad QB and get there but not having a top flight QB is the exception, not the rule. If this was the case, there would be alot of Leaf's, etal lining up to play with some stacked teams. JMO. I just think we sometimes forget what goes into the position...cadences, playbook, reads, audibles, split second decisions, etc.

Baltimore, Tampa, and Carolina all made it to the Super Bowl with out a good QB. I'm sure there are several other teams that could be named as well.

There are only a handfull of "Great" QBs to ever play the game, so to expect Carr to be great is asking alot. He just needs to be average with a great supporting cast, which we are still in the process of developing.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 04:58 PM
Hey, if we can get to the SuperBowl and keep beyotching about the QB, it's win-win.

THANK YOU!

trutxn
02-15-2007, 04:59 PM
Don't kid yourself. That's an insult to serious Texans fans.

If wanting to get to the Super Bowl is an insult, maybe you should take up golf or tennis.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 05:01 PM
Hey, if we can get to the SuperBowl and keep beyotching about the QB, it's win-win.

Texans (not only the team) want the best of everything, and it is well deserved.

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 05:06 PM
Baltimore, Tampa, and Carolina all made it to the Super Bowl with out a good QB. I'm sure there are several other teams that could be named as well.

There are only a handfull of "Great" QBs to ever play the game, so to expect Carr to be great is asking alot. He just needs to be average with a great supporting cast, which we are still in the process of developing.

Most SB winners have a QB that can get it done. Go back to the 70s and almost every QB is a HOFer. Bradhshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Aikman, Favre, Brady, Elway, Manning. The thing is, we pay Carr to be great. He was the #1 pick. The QB is in charge of calling audibles, reading defenses, making plays in the pocket and managing a game. He isn't supposd to be average and with the salary cap and parity you can't count on surrounding a guy with a perfect team. That is a pipe dream. The QBs on the teams you mentioned were a little above average too and had shown something. It isn't the norm. I'm not wasting cap space for average when you can get someone for the future that can help carry you. At some point your QB has to win you a few games.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 05:15 PM
Most SB winners have a QB that can get it done. Go back to the 70s and almost every QB is a HOFer. Bradhshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Aikman, Favre, Brady, Elway, Manning. The thing is, we pay Carr to be great. He was the #1 pick. The QB is in charge of calling audibles, reading defenses, making plays in the pocket and managing a game. He isn't supposd to be average and with the salary cap and parity you can't count on surrounding a guy with a perfect team. That is a pipe dream. The QBs on the teams you mentioned were a little above average too and had shown something. It isn't the norm. I'm not wasting cap space for average when you can get someone for the future that can help carry you. At some point your QB has to win you a few games.

Like I said, there are only a handful of "Great" (HOF) QBs, and you ALMOST listed all of them.

What about Dilfer and Johnson, who both won the SB? They were only avg. Dynasties are built with a great QB but you can win without one.

trutxn
02-15-2007, 05:16 PM
Like I said, there are only a handful of "Great" (HOF) QBs, and you ALMOST listed all of them.

What about Dilfer and Johnson, who both won the SB? They were only avg. Dynasties are built with a great QB but you can win without one.

Who are we getting for the future this year? The future is good to think about but that is later, Carr is our present and we must deal with the present before we consider the future.

HoustonFrog
02-15-2007, 05:23 PM
Like I said, there are only a handful of "Great" (HOF) QBs, and you ALMOST listed all of them.

What about Dilfer and Johnson, who both won the SB? They were only avg. Dynasties are built with a great QB but you can win without one.

Yeah and they have won a majority of the SBs and many of them have multiple titles. Brady was a late round selection. People keep using these examples of Baltimore, etc but that is 2 teams out of dozens. Those teams had special defenses...Top 5 all time type Ds and I think Dilfer was above average and the same with Johnson..who had put up good stats elsewhere. Our problem is that we don't even know if we can get enough conssitency to get to "average." That is a dangerous proposition. The Bears carried Grossman and look what happened in the big one. I wasnt SB titles...not getting far.

t_flare
02-15-2007, 05:27 PM
Carr deserves to go to TB... he will finally get a running game (Williams) a better O-Line, and if they get Carr hope they draft Calvin Johnson. More talent than he ever had in Houston

swtbound07
02-15-2007, 06:09 PM
Obviously you are missing the point. Last year was the year to get a new QB. If Grossman can QB the Bears to the Super Bowl, so can Carr.


thats an insult to rex grossman

Navy_Chris
02-15-2007, 09:30 PM
Chris.. where do you get such an idea? Carr got more heart than most QB's. I realize your a hater.. but even they will admit this. Plus on 4th and one or 4th and goal the money is on Carr. He got more flight time over defence stands than most pilots. Wake up.. Carr loves football and he stands tall when a gut check is called for. :shades:

25-53 as a starter? I don't care how much guts he has. That record has to get better. We can't afford to hold his hand any more. We've already wasted 5 years and $53 million on this guy. LMAO!! Enough is enough!!

Navy_Chris
02-15-2007, 09:33 PM
If wanting to get to the Super Bowl is an insult, maybe you should take up golf or tennis.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm laughing at the fact that some Texans fans out there think David Carr can get the Texans to the Super Bowl.

Hookem Horns
02-15-2007, 09:43 PM
I am surprised at this rumor and doubt they will be looking to trade for a backup to Simms. I think Carr will end up in the CFL.

Honoring Earl 34
02-15-2007, 10:14 PM
25-53 as a starter? I don't care how much guts he has. That record has to get better. We can't afford to hold his hand any more. We've already wasted 5 years and $53 million on this guy. LMAO!! Enough is enough!!

You know if I am a batter and stand there and let myself get hit by the pitch ... that does'nt really make me tough . What makes you tough is getting up and hurting them by making a play and letting them know you better come harder next time .

thunderkyss
02-15-2007, 11:14 PM
http://forums.houstontexans.com/image.php?u=424&dateline=1171585722

NOw that's a sweet BabyBlue Jersey......

thunderkyss
02-15-2007, 11:21 PM
You know if I am a batter and stand there and let myself get hit by the pitch ... that does'nt really make me tough . What makes you tough is getting up and hurting them by making a play and letting them know you better come harder next time .

Earl........ you know I ain't no Carr lover. But you know the kid is tough. There is no denying that.

what he needs, is that short memory that an NFL QB needs.

Throw an interception?? He needs to be thinking, "Oh well, we still need 16 yards, so I'm going to chunk it deep", & not, "whoooo- hoooo I got Wali Lundy wide open 10 yards short of the first down"

IF he gets sacked, or nailed just after he throws deep, & the coach calls a draw on 3rd & 22, he needs to say, "nah coach..... I got this. Let me throw it."

Honoring Earl 34
02-16-2007, 07:02 AM
I guess my point would be ... Randall Tex Cobb let Larry Holmes beat him like a rented mule .... I guess that means he can take a punch .

I'll give David Carr that ... he can take a punch .

Mr. White
02-16-2007, 08:34 AM
Chris.. where do you get such an idea? Carr got more heart than most QB's. I realize your a hater.. but even they will admit this. Plus on 4th and one or 4th and goal the money is on Carr. He got more flight time over defence stands than most pilots. Wake up.. Carr loves football and he stands tall when a gut check is called for. :shades:

LMAO. Apparently, Carr has more family on this board than we thought.

Texas
02-16-2007, 12:04 PM
carnell williams

HOOK'EM
02-16-2007, 10:42 PM
A trade with Tampa would be cool. He could easily beat out Simms & we play them next year, so that would be cool to see Mario on him.

petedy
02-16-2007, 11:49 PM
AS I have read everyone's posts on this message board I have tried to keep my feelings out of alot that has been written about David Carr and I have come to a conclusion that most here have never played organize football in their lives and don't know really what the heck they are talking about. The Texans suck because they are still learning the business and are getting the wrong people to be supportive to one another.No matter if you got rid of Carr the same problems will persist as long as the o-line isn't fixed and a better secondary as well.You also need a reliable runningback who isn't in the trainer's room more than playing the game. Your recievers aren't as good as you think with a lot of dropped passes last season and they did miss some of their assignments on running their routes. Now as for Carr, he did hold the ball a little too long at times and at times he should have just thrown the ball away.Kubiak's system does not allow a QB to audiablize when a defense changes their coverage. It was a team losing season and not because of just one man,Carr. Everyone was confused last season because they all were learning a new system and plus Kubiak had his first season as a head coach. All of this is correctable with patience and a little time.:hides:

Ryan
02-16-2007, 11:51 PM
Yes I am A Buccaneer fan here in Tampa. There is a lot of talk and speculation that the Bucs have an interest in Carr. As Texan fans what do you see being a fare trade for Carr:doot:

can we pay you??:doot:

Navy_Chris
02-16-2007, 11:57 PM
AS I have read everyone's posts on this message board I have tried to keep my feelings out of alot that has been written about David Carr and I have come to a conclusion that most here have never played organize football in their lives and don't know really what the heck they are talking about. The Texans suck because they are still learning the business and are getting the wrong people to be supportive to one another.No matter if you got rid of Carr the same problems will persist as long as the o-line isn't fixed and a better secondary as well.You also need a reliable runningback who isn't in the trainer's room more than playing the game. Your recievers aren't as good as you think with a lot of dropped passes last season and they did miss some of their assignments on running their routes. Now as for Carr, he did hold the ball a little too long at times and at times he should have just thrown the ball away.Kubiak's system does not allow a QB to audiablize when a defense changes their coverage. It was a team losing season and not because of just one man,Carr. Everyone was confused last season because they all were learning a new system and plus Kubiak had his first season as a head coach. All of this is correctable with patience and a little time.:hides:

LMAO!! Everyone's been confused for 5 years now, apparently!!!!! I have full faith in Gary and Rick that they can get this team to the Super Bowl. He's already started getting the guys used to winning and they're losing the 'losing mentality'.

thunderkyss
02-17-2007, 01:20 PM
AS I have read everyone's posts on this message board I have tried to keep my feelings out of alot that has been written about David Carr and I have come to a conclusion that most here have never played organize football in their lives and don't know really what the heck they are talking about.
:hides:

So if David is not with the Texans in '07, for what reason would you attribute that to??

1) because of the opinion of a lot of people (who've never played organized football in their lives, & don't know what they are talking about) who post on the Houston Texans' Message Board.

2) because of the opinion of two people(Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith) who have been involved with organized football for quite some time.

Silver Oak
02-17-2007, 02:22 PM
LMAO. Apparently, Carr has more family on this board than we thought.

As does Vince.

Texian
02-17-2007, 03:27 PM
So if David is not with the Texans in '07, for what reason would you attribute that to??

1) because of the opinion of a lot of people (who've never played organized football in their lives, & don't know what they are talking about) who post on the Houston Texans' Message Board.

2) because of the opinion of two people(Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith) who have been involved with organized football for quite some time.

I'll choose 2 and if David is not with the Texans in 07 they might still know organized footall but they are completely lacking in any fiscal responsibilties and totally inept of any money management.

thunderkyss
02-17-2007, 03:38 PM
I'll choose 2 and if David is not with the Texans in 07 they might still know organized footall but they are completely lacking in any fiscal responsibilties and totally inept of any money management.

You're assuming we get Plummer. For all we know, he'll walk. I'm assuming he wants a starting Gig, but Kubiak will want him to compete with Sage.

He's seen them both, so he'll probably have an idea of who would win anyway.

But no one is going to be happy knowing the job was just given to Plummer.

Anyway. If Plummer passes on us, & we cut Carr, we could go into '07 with Sage, Van Pelt, & Stanton...... which would be pretty atractive, fiscally.

Texian
02-17-2007, 05:07 PM
You're assuming we get Plummer. For all we know, he'll walk. I'm assuming he wants a starting Gig, but Kubiak will want him to compete with Sage.

He's seen them both, so he'll probably have an idea of who would win anyway.

But no one is going to be happy knowing the job was just given to Plummer.

Anyway. If Plummer passes on us, & we cut Carr, we could go into '07 with Sage, Van Pelt, & Stanton...... which would be pretty atractive, fiscally.

Yes, that is assuming Plummer. I can't envision Shanahan letting him walk, he would take a 5th or 6th RD pick before letting him walk. There will be some bidders for Plummer's services so it will most likely be a higher pick.

If they are dead set in wanting a starting caliber QB this year, I would roll the dice and give up the 1st pick for Matt Schaub vs a 3 or 4 for Plummer. The upside, ceiling and long term value is much greater with Schaub. Schaub has been in a similar Kubiak system in college and 3 years in Atlanta. His learning curve is minimal and he could start today. Many will ridicule me for this but I say it as a last resort for bringing in another high profile QB now.

Sage, Van Pelt & Stanton is not all that bad when you consider you will have your chances at Brohm, Booty and Ainge in next years draft. At this stage they appear more attractive than this year's draft. It is not bad at all if it allows you to sign someone like Pettigout.

thunderkyss
02-17-2007, 08:08 PM
Yes, that is assuming Plummer. I can't envision Shanahan letting him walk, he would take a 5th or 6th RD pick before letting him walk. There will be some bidders for Plummer's services so it will most likely be a higher pick.

If they are dead set in wanting a starting caliber QB this year, I would roll the dice and give up the 1st pick for Matt Schaub vs a 3 or 4 for Plummer. The upside, ceiling and long term value is much greater with Schaub. Schaub has been in a similar Kubiak system in college and 3 years in Atlanta. His learning curve is minimal and he could start today. Many will ridicule me for this but I say it as a last resort for bringing in another high profile QB now.

Sage, Van Pelt & Stanton is not all that bad when you consider you will have your chances at Brohm, Booty and Ainge in next years draft. At this stage they appear more attractive than this year's draft. It is not bad at all if it allows you to sign someone like Pettigout.

I'm asking, because I really don't know. But why is Matt Shaub a better option at starting QB than Sage Rosenfels?? Sage has looked Poised & ready to take the reigns..... he may not ever be Montana, or even Jim Kelly. But he could easily be a Chris Chandler or Rich Gannon. Good enough for us to win games, and and allow our team to develop while we look for our franchise QB.

Texian
02-17-2007, 10:55 PM
I'm asking, because I really don't know. But why is Matt Shaub a better option at starting QB than Sage Rosenfels?? Sage has looked Poised & ready to take the reigns..... he may not ever be Montana, or even Jim Kelly. But he could easily be a Chris Chandler or Rich Gannon. Good enough for us to win games, and and allow our team to develop while we look for our franchise QB.

I agree with your thoughts on Sage, my reference to Schaub was an alternative to bringing in a veteran QB. I am really not an advocate for signing Schaub or Plummer. If they were to go that route I would prefer Schaub. Chandler and Gannon both made it to the Super Bowl. I really like the idea of opening the door for a fair competition between Carr, Sage and Van Pelt.

As a backup plan I would certainly try to trade the #8 pick to another team for their 2nd and 3rd RD picks this year and their 1st RD pick next year. Hopefully you could bundle the two 1st RD picks in 08 and move up to select the best available QB. Similar to what Denver did to get Cutler.

HOOK'EM
02-17-2007, 11:38 PM
Carrs done.............sign Plummer & draft Quinn!:marionaner:

Texian
02-17-2007, 11:51 PM
Carrs done.............sign Plummer & draft Quinn!:marionaner:

Yeah why not! Give Plummer the $8-10 million it will take to sign him and Quinn at #8 will a GTD $15,000,000. Brilliant!

HOOK'EM
02-18-2007, 05:27 AM
sounds good to me, just get rid of DC!

QB75
02-18-2007, 02:20 PM
sounds good to me, just get rid of DC!

I'm sure it does !