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amazingandre
02-12-2007, 08:27 PM
I want to know why people want him and why people wouldn't want him if he fell. I'd want him. He is very good despite having a bad oline. i think that is what we need. He is an arm like Tom Brady and from what i saw he is mobile enough to move outside the pocket for kubs......and i think kubiak will be able to teach him all he needs to know. let carr start this year and have kubiak teach quinn. the oline will have another year together and then hopefully when quinn starts they wil be ready.

Trap_Star
02-12-2007, 08:39 PM
For the sake of the fans and the city of Houston, this team needs to keep improving every year from now on. Drafting Quinn would set us back a couple of more years. We just went through 5 years of sub-par play at QB. I dont want to go through another 2-3 to find out if Quinn is our guy. We need to draft guys that will come in and contribute right away. Whats wrong with drafting a QB in the later rounds? kubiak can groom him for a couple of years and then see if he is the guy. The expectations for him wont be as high as a Top 10 QB. If quinn falls, I say trade down...

Texian
02-12-2007, 08:41 PM
I want to know why people want him and why people wouldn't want him if he fell. I'd want him. He is very good despite having a bad oline. i think that is what we need. He is an arm like Tom Brady and from what i saw he is mobile enough to move outside the pocket for kubs......and i think kubiak will be able to teach him all he needs to know. let carr start this year and have kubiak teach quinn. the oline will have another year together and then hopefully when quinn starts they wil be ready.

First I don't think he is an upgrade. Fix the defense and you can do almost all of it this offseason. That leaves you the next couple of years to focus solely on the O.

Honoring Earl 34
02-12-2007, 08:43 PM
I would like two starters out of picks one and two . If their is a QB in the 3rd that the Texans like then maybe .

keyfro
02-12-2007, 10:45 PM
the only thing i have against brady quinn is this...if everything works out the way i think it will in which we trade carr in for peanuts...sign plummer when he's released...why would we draft a QB number one when we still have a whole bunch of whole to fix...if we go into the draft stuck with carr and no other veteran Qb to challenge him then fine...but i'm almost 100% sure we'll end up with plummer some way some how

YoungTexanFan
02-12-2007, 10:49 PM
Well, I don't like Quinn because he reminds me of a Harrington/Carr combo, leaning more torwards Harrington. That scares me off. I don't see much Brady in him other than Wiese. His awareness isn't that great either. He arm is average. His mental game isn't all there either. He has decent legs, but Carr is more mobile. He does have a better presence in the pocket than Carr, but I won't justify taking him on that alone.

Ole Miss Texan
02-13-2007, 12:11 AM
I think Quinn will be a fine quarterback...given he has a decent o-line. If not, I think he'll have a hard time like Carr did. I think a lot of people give him a lot of undue criticism because he has been the front runner #1 QB for so long and they want to critique him to death...plus the whole pretty boy imagine. Don't get me wrong constructive criticism is needed and a lot of people on here make extremely valid comments- others just say they don't like him because that's becoming the 'popular' thing to say.

With that said, I don't like him.....lol just kidding. I think it would send a horrible message to our fan base for passing on Leinart/Young/Cutler last year to draft this guy....when our defense is no where near complete and our offensive line is just as bad. I would rather us stick to building a stout defense that will have to battle indy...and now tennessee. I think there will be other guys on our list by the time we pick...that we won't pick him.

I'd love if he fell to us and somone would trade with us to get him...looks like miami might like to take him..so a team could jump in front of them. i'd like to stay top 15 though. Then go BPA from Levi, Landry, Nelson, Okoye, Willis, etc whoever is available and depending on what we do in FA.

Ole Miss Texan
02-13-2007, 12:12 AM
I will add I think it'd be great for our FO to show interest in him and even bring him in for try outs...to try and throw a little smokescreen. Even if he's picked before us...that means another top player just fell to us that we could probably rather have.

Insideop
02-13-2007, 04:19 AM
I will add I think it'd be great for our FO to show interest in him and even bring him in for try outs...to try and throw a little smokescreen. Even if he's picked before us...that means another top player just fell to us that we could probably rather have.


I think if you show interest in him (as a smokescreen) it could backfire because the team that really wants him would then deal with the team in front of us (Vikings I believe) to make sure they get him. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Ole Miss Texan
02-13-2007, 04:46 AM
I think if you show interest in him (as a smokescreen) it could backfire because the team that really wants him would then deal with the team in front of us (Vikings I believe) to make sure they get him. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Yea I do...it's all pretty tricky. I guess you gotta show a little interest so they are willing to give you something but not enough to where they think it'll be cheaper to go a pick ahead. lol

Navy_Chris
02-13-2007, 11:18 AM
I want to know why people want him and why people wouldn't want him if he fell. I'd want him. He is very good despite having a bad oline. i think that is what we need. He is an arm like Tom Brady and from what i saw he is mobile enough to move outside the pocket for kubs......and i think kubiak will be able to teach him all he needs to know. let carr start this year and have kubiak teach quinn. the oline will have another year together and then hopefully when quinn starts they wil be ready.

Brady Quinn would be a good pick at #8. He should sit under Sage for at least the start of the season and Gary should insert him when Brady looks like he's ready. We have to think towards the future. We can't have a WIN NOW attitude.

bah007
02-13-2007, 11:25 AM
Brady Quinn would be a good pick at #8. He should sit under Sage for at least the start of the season and Gary should insert him when Brady looks like he's ready. We have to think towards the future. We can't have a WIN NOW attitude.

We've been looking toward the future for 5 years & we still havent made the playoffs.

It's about time we instituted a WIN NOW attitiude.

I want to get the best players available in this draft, not the players with the most potential. That's where you find guys like Ryan Leaf.

HomeBred_Texan
02-13-2007, 12:17 PM
We've been looking toward the future for 5 years & we still havent made the playoffs.

It's about time we instituted a WIN NOW attitiude.

I want to get the best players available in this draft, not the players with the most potential. That's where you find guys like Ryan Leaf.

Or Dan Marino

Navy_Chris
02-13-2007, 01:00 PM
We've been looking toward the future for 5 years & we still havent made the playoffs.

It's about time we instituted a WIN NOW attitiude.

I want to get the best players available in this draft, not the players with the most potential. That's where you find guys like Ryan Leaf.

I agree with you partly. But, you have to remember that the past 4 years were under Dom Capers and his staff of half-wits. Gary and Rick, in my opinion, need to do this the right way. Yes, we do need to win now...guys like Jake Plummer can do that. On the other hand...3 or 4 years from now it will be time to find another QB. The QB position is where you need a stable guy that's gonna be there for years to come. I don't like the idea of 'pieceing' together a team for the next couple of years. We need to build something in Houston that's going to serve as the foundation for the future of the franchise.

On a side note, Bob McNair recently mentioned the positions he would like to bolster this offseason. Among them were:

Safety (agree...Brown and Earl are NOT starting caliber safeties)
Running Back (disagree...Taylor, Dayne, Lundy)
Defensive Tackle (agree)
Quarterback (Brady Quinn in Round 1 would be great)
Wide Receiver (David Ball in Round 6 would be awesome)
Outside Linebacker (David Harris in Round 3 would be excellent)

What about CB? (Daymeion Hughes, David Irons, Corey Graham)
What about OL? (Josh Beekman, Brandon Frye) *Steinbach is the top free agent guard*

Why does he insist on ignoring the offensive line problem? Can somebody explain this please????

real
02-13-2007, 01:04 PM
If Quinn Slides we need to use that to our advantage and trade down. I'm pretty sure there would be a team or two that would want to trade up for Quinn.

Silver Oak
02-13-2007, 01:04 PM
I would take him....if he wasn't available this year. We have too many other needs to address first.

I did read an article that had some scout saying Quinn could fall to the 4th or 5th round. To me, and IMO, that is ludicrous. Good pocket presence, a sick arm, and mobile when he needs to be.

kastofsna
02-13-2007, 01:08 PM
best quarterback in the draft. will be an excellent player. smart, tough, great leadership, wins games, unbelievable TD/INT ratio, doesn't make bad decisions, sound mechanically, big, strong, good arm, accurate, experience in a difficult pro offense (and GREAT success in that offense), had some big comebacks, got better each year at notre dame...pretty much the prototypical QB prospect and basically a lock to be very good in the NFL.

Navy_Chris
02-13-2007, 01:09 PM
I would take him....if he wasn't available this year. We have too many other needs to address first.

I did read an article that had some scout saying Quinn could fall to the 4th or 5th round. To me, and IMO, that is ludicrous. Good pocket presence, a sick arm, and mobile when he needs to be.

I think drafting for need is all a personal philosophy, not necessarily the best way to go in the early rounds. For example, Tampa will PROBABLY draft Calvin Johnson. Do they need him??? He definitely won't hurt them...they need a QB, but they're not gonna reach for a guy like Russell or Quinn.

My point is, DON'T draft purely out of what you need the most. I would always prefer to take the best player available, and if the BPA is a guy that would also fill a need for me. ADDED BONUS!!

kastofsna
02-13-2007, 01:09 PM
I did read an article that had some scout saying Quinn could fall to the 4th or 5th round. To me, and IMO, that is ludicrous. Good pocket presence, a sick arm, and mobile when he needs to be.
i read that article too. that scout doesn't know what he's talking about. trying to sell magazines. he compares him to joey harrington. idiocy. they really don't have much in common.

ledzeppelin229
02-13-2007, 01:11 PM
No matter who we get at QB they are going to be sitting with the clipboard for at least a year (ideally). I wouldn't be opposed to a Plummer - Sage - Quinn lineup if the coaches thought Quinn could be that guy and he was their BPA. Now if they think they can find someone similar later on then do that, but don't pass on Quinn just because you think it will set us back.

real
02-13-2007, 01:15 PM
I don't think Quinn is going to be that good. I think he has the physical tools, but I've watched him a lot, and I don't like how he plays under pressure. I know he's had some come backs and whatever, but that's not really pressure. Almost everytime I've seen him play a good school or a school that is ranked fairly high, Quinn has looked poor-average. IMO, he doesn't show up in big games, when you need it most.

I just don't like his game.

Navy_Chris
02-13-2007, 01:17 PM
No matter who we get at QB they are going to be sitting with the clipboard for at least a year (ideally). I wouldn't be opposed to a Plummer - Sage - Quinn lineup if the coaches thought Quinn could be that guy and he was their BPA. Now if they think they can find someone similar later on then do that, but don't pass on Quinn just because you think it will set us back.

That's WAYYYY too big of a QB budget. It's more like:

Sage-Brady-Porter (get him back from NFL Europe)

Specnatz
02-13-2007, 02:10 PM
I don't think Quinn is going to be that good. I think he has the physical tools, but I've watched him a lot, and I don't like how he plays under pressure. I know he's had some come backs and whatever, but that's not really pressure. Almost everytime I've seen him play a good school or a school that is ranked fairly high, Quinn has looked poor-average. IMO, he doesn't show up in big games, when you need it most.

I just don't like his game.

There is a huge differance about the highly ranked schools that you are talking about, they have or had more team speed than Notre Dame. Ty Willingham did not recruit very well, sub 25 classes. Compared to Michigan, LSU and USC. Until 2006 recruit class ND had not had any highly touted OL recruits since Lou Holtz. Now two years in a row, 2006 and 2007 Weis has actually recruited top Ten classes.

You say you watched Quinn a lot and that you noticed he did not play well in big games? What would you call 2006 versus USC? You know that game ND was suppose to be run out of the building. If it was not for the Bush push, USC would have lost. All of the big losses by ND were due to the fact the defense did not stop anyone and neither did the OL.

As a huge ND fan I have watched ALL of there games. The only question I have about Quinn is his ability to throw the real deep ball. Because ND had very tall receivers he lofted the ball and the WR were able to jump up and catch the ball versus catching in stride and continuing on. This is because they did not generate as much seperation as say Ted Ginn Jr did at OSU.

I would have no problems if the Texans drafted Quinn at number 8 if he is there, as far as saying it sends a bad message because of not drafting Youn, it says the old regime made a mistake which everyone already thinks so no big deal there. It does not have to signal a huge step-back if the Texans have Sage and Plummer at the helm for two years and build up the rest of the team with good FA choices and draft choices.

real
02-13-2007, 02:29 PM
There is a huge differance about the highly ranked schools that you are talking about, they have or had more team speed than Notre Dame. Ty Willingham did not recruit very well, sub 25 classes. Compared to Michigan, LSU and USC. Until 2006 recruit class ND had not had any highly touted OL recruits since Lou Holtz. Now two years in a row, 2006 and 2007 Weis has actually recruited top Ten classes.

You say you watched Quinn a lot and that you noticed he did not play well in big games? What would you call 2006 versus USC? You know that game ND was suppose to be run out of the building. If it was not for the Bush push, USC would have lost. All of the big losses by ND were due to the fact the defense did not stop anyone and neither did the OL.

As a huge ND fan I have watched ALL of there games. The only question I have about Quinn is his ability to throw the real deep ball. Because ND had very tall receivers he lofted the ball and the WR were able to jump up and catch the ball versus catching in stride and continuing on. This is because they did not generate as much seperation as say Ted Ginn Jr did at OSU.



I don't think I said he never played well in big games....

And personally I don't care about completion, yards, TD's or INT's...Numbers don't mean much to me....

I'm not hung up on technique, footwork or anything like that. That's the coaches job.

When I watch a game, one of the things I notice most is a players demeanor. Brady Quinn, IMO, went to the David Carr Joey Harrington school of demanor. I know he has put up good numbers and yada yada yada....his O-line was bad...His recievers were slow....his whatever is too whatever....

Bull....

You can look at a player and tell whether or not he has talent, and you can tell when his team lets him down...

And I didn't have to watch EVERY game of his to come to my conclusion.

Specnatz
02-13-2007, 02:45 PM
You can look at a player and tell whether or not he has talent, and you can tell when his team lets him down...

And I didn't have to watch EVERY game of his to come to my conclusion.

Well I guess that is the thinking that got Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Heath Shuler drafted.

Thinking like this would have not gotten Payton Manning drafted if you only watched his games against Florida.

real
02-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Well I guess that is the thinking that got Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Heath Shuler drafted.

Thinking like this would have not gotten Payton Manning drafted if you only watched his games against Florida.

O.k.....So let me get this right.....

The only way you can evaluate a player is by watching all of his games ?

You are assuming an awful lot my friend....

bah007
02-13-2007, 02:54 PM
O.k.....So let me get this right.....

The only way you can evaluate a player is by watching all of his games ?

You are assuming an awful lot my friend....

I agree with you here.

I dont think that the Saints watched every one of Colston's games on tape before they decided to draft him.

Ole Miss Texan
02-13-2007, 03:16 PM
O.k.....So let me get this right.....

The only way you can evaluate a player is by watching all of his games ?

You are assuming an awful lot my friend....

I think what he was saying is that if you just looked at Peyton's games against Florida, you could conclude maybe his demeanor wasn't that great or what not.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I got that if you look at just three games of a QB it wouldn't tell his whole story. At the same time watching every single game of every single player you draft is out of the question. I do think you need to watch a lot of film with your 1st rd pick though.

Specnatz
02-13-2007, 03:45 PM
I am not saying you have to watch every single game of a players career, but you have to watch more than just a few games. That is why you have more than one scout and you do extensive research on a player. The teams who are successful do this the teams who are not don't.

As far as Colston goes, maybe if a scout would have watched more tape of him he would have been drafted higher.

It is just the way it was put by xtruroyaltyx is that you watch demeanor and not how he played. I am not really sure what demeanor you are referring to.

real
02-13-2007, 03:47 PM
I think what he was saying is that if you just looked at Peyton's games against Florida, you could conclude maybe his demeanor wasn't that great or what not.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I got that if you look at just three games of a QB it wouldn't tell his whole story. At the same time watching every single game of every single player you draft is out of the question. I do think you need to watch a lot of film with your 1st rd pick though.

That's why I said he's assuming a lot....

Not one time did I say everytime I watched him he played poorly....

I never even said that he played poorly in every big game he played....




I don't see how that is the same thing as only watching Peyton play against Florida....


I'm not a fool...and I rarely go to the extremes when it comes to players....I know Quinn has talent....I just don't think he's going to be as good as everyone thinks....

real
02-13-2007, 04:04 PM
I am not saying you have to watch every single game of a players career, but you have to watch more than just a few games. That is why you have more than one scout and you do extensive research on a player. The teams who are successful do this the teams who are not don't.

As far as Colston goes, maybe if a scout would have watched more tape of him he would have been drafted higher.

It is just the way it was put by xtruroyaltyx is that you watch demeanor and not how he played. I am not really sure what demeanor you are referring to.


Answer this question for me....

Has there ever been a bust in the NFL?

Has there ever been players that exceed expectations ?

How many ?


Tons....

Every year there are players that do better or worse than people thought they'd do....Every year....There has never been a year where the scouts were right about everyone...and generally the guys that they are right about are the same guys that we already knew about....

Out of all the scouts in the NFL, how many do you think hit on every player....My guess would be not a single one....Do you know any one person that knows everything about everyone in the draft ? Do you think there has been a single person or GROUP of people that have collectively watched every game of every college player ?

I honestly don't think so...

What does this all mean ? ....It means my opinion is just as valid as the next mans...You are acting like orginizations act as a whole...like the whole orginiztion is on the same wave length....those guys go back and forth about players just as much as we do...Those are individuals giving their feedback...and ultimately ONE man is going to make his choice...and that one man that makes his decision probably hasn't even watched the players as much as the peoples who's opnions at the end of the day ultimately don't matter....go fiugure....

So why is their system better or more correct than mine...I'm pretty confident in my ability to judge a players abilities, and personally I could care less what a scout or anyone else says......

And what I meant when I was talking about his demeanor, was his facial expression, body language, reactions to bad plays....all that good stuff.....I didn't like it, and I think that is the biggest reason he's going to struggle at the next level....He's has all the physical tools, but to me that doesn't mean much when talking about QB's....Look at chad pennington...Then look at a guy who has both like Tom Brady...Then look at a guy with good tools and bad mental make-up...coughDavidCarrcough....I don't see Quinn as the type of QB i'd want at the next level....but this all is JMO.

leachmtb
02-13-2007, 06:00 PM
Answer this question for me....

Has there ever been a bust in the NFL?

Has there ever been players that exceed expectations ?

How many ?


Tons....

Every year there are players that do better or worse than people thought they'd do....Every year....There has never been a year where the scouts were right about everyone...and generally the guys that they are right about are the same guys that we already knew about....

Out of all the scouts in the NFL, how many do you think hit on every player....My guess would be not a single one....Do you know any one person that knows everything about everyone in the draft ? Do you think there has been a single person or GROUP of people that have collectively watched every game of every college player ?

I honestly don't think so...

What does this all mean ? ....It means my opinion is just as valid as the next mans...You are acting like orginizations act as a whole...like the whole orginiztion is on the same wave length....those guys go back and forth about players just as much as we do...Those are individuals giving their feedback...and ultimately ONE man is going to make his choice...and that one man that makes his decision probably hasn't even watched the players as much as the peoples who's opnions at the end of the day ultimately don't matter....go fiugure....

So why is their system better or more correct than mine...I'm pretty confident in my ability to judge a players abilities, and personally I could care less what a scout or anyone else says......

And what I meant when I was talking about his demeanor, was his facial expression, body language, reactions to bad plays....all that good stuff.....I didn't like it, and I think that is the biggest reason he's going to struggle at the next level....He's has all the physical tools, but to me that doesn't mean much when talking about QB's....Look at chad pennington...Then look at a guy who has both like Tom Brady...Then look at a guy with good tools and bad mental make-up...coughDavidCarrcough....I don't see Quinn as the type of QB i'd want at the next level....but this all is JMO.

I think you are being awfully defensive considering he never attacked anything you said, he just offered up a counter point. Peyton Manning was said that he could never win the big game. As you stated, there is a lot more to a quarterback than his demeanor. For example, if you watched any of Cutler's demeanor his senior year at Vanderbilt, he looked like he didn't give a crap, but that couldn't be further than the truth. Peyton Manning looked like he would give up when things went bad too. Different people have different body language.

Of course this isn't a science. That is exactly why looking at Brady's demeanor during big games isn't scientific either (I know that you stated that it was your opinion.) A lot happened to David Carr since he has gotten to Houston. A lot happened to Vince Young from Houston all the way to Tennessee, and a lot happened to Jay Cutler (who I think is awesome by the way). Ultimately, you want a guy that is very coachable, that loves to play football, and that has enough physical tools to be able to get better. I think demeanor can be a tell about a player, but it doesn't have to be.

I think Brady Quinn could be a good choice for the Texans. But, I'd rather them look at trading down and drafting defense. As an SEC guy, I would love for us to pick up Patrick Willis and maybe also sign Boss Bailey (that way we have an all SEC linebacking core). But, if the front offense decides to draft Quinn, I just think that we need to sit him and let him learn, and then allow him to play after the team has been better developed.

kastofsna
02-14-2007, 10:02 AM
lmao. i love this.

real
02-14-2007, 10:17 AM
I think you are being awfully defensive considering he never attacked anything you said, he just offered up a counter point.

What are you talking about ?

This is a message board...people are defensive all the time...

You know...kinda like how you just defended your idea...

real
02-14-2007, 10:20 AM
I think you are being awfully defensive considering he never attacked anything you said, he just offered up a counter point. Peyton Manning was said that he could never win the big game. As you stated, there is a lot more to a quarterback than his demeanor. For example, if you watched any of Cutler's demeanor his senior year at Vanderbilt, he looked like he didn't give a crap, but that couldn't be further than the truth. Peyton Manning looked like he would give up when things went bad too. Different people have different body language.

Of course this isn't a science. That is exactly why looking at Brady's demeanor during big games isn't scientific either (I know that you stated that it was your opinion.) A lot happened to David Carr since he has gotten to Houston. A lot happened to Vince Young from Houston all the way to Tennessee, and a lot happened to Jay Cutler (who I think is awesome by the way). Ultimately, you want a guy that is very coachable, that loves to play football, and that has enough physical tools to be able to get better. I think demeanor can be a tell about a player, but it doesn't have to be.

I don't see what other peoples opinions about other player have to do with my opinion about Quinn.

But, if the front offense decides to draft Quinn, I just think that we need to sit him and let him learn, and then allow him to play after the team has been better developed.

If our front office drafted Quinn I'd be pretty upset. JMO.

kastofsna
02-14-2007, 10:41 AM
this is good stuff.
You guys are so going to owe me for this. Here's an eyeball account of how Brady Quinn did on 3rd down against Georgia Tech.

You're going to owe me because I'm also going to do this analysis for Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, UCLA, USC, and LSU...eventually. I left off Stanford, Navy, North Carolina, Air Force, and Navy because I consider them "substandard".

This is all just 2006, btw...so keep in mind these numbers are probably worse than 2005, when he had better talent to help him out.

OK, I split these 3rd downs into two groups...10 yards or less to go, and more than 10 yards to go.

On 3rd & 10 or less, Brady Quinn against Georgia Tech was 5 of 7 for 54 yards. He also ran twice on 3rd down, both with 10 yards to go. He actually converted one of them with a 16 yard run, and the other was a 2 yard run that was converted because GT committed an 8 yard penalty.

Altogether on makeable 3rd down situations, Brady Quinn converted 6 of 8 third downs, with a 9th that was converted due to penalty.

Brady Quinn had three unmakeable 3rd down situations, 3rd & 17, 3rd & 25, and 3rd & 15. He threw incomplete on all three attempts.

So overall on third down, his numbers look like 5 of 10 for 54 yards.

So how about important situations? Well, I'll give you one that passes the 'eyeball' test right off the bat. Up 14-10, Notre Dame takes the ball with 5:29 left to play in the game, from their own 5 yard line. They run the ball four straight times with Darius Walker, until they get a 3rd & 9 with 2:45 left on the clock at the Notre Dame 25 yard line. Miss the conversion, and Georgia Tech gets the ball back with 2 minutes left to play, and decent field position, down by 4 points looking for the win.

What happened?

Brady Quinn completes a 19 yard pass to Rhema McKnight down the middle.

Game over.

So, like I said, I'm going to go ahead and do some pressure analysis on Quinn in a number of different pressure situations...but eyeballing this Georgia Tech game, I'm not sure who in their right minds is criticizing Quinn for not stepping up during pressure moments in this particular game.
BTW I'm just going through all this third down and high pressure stuff for Brady Quinn and I have to say he's got more nuts than even I thought he did.

One thing that struck me about Quinn this year is that when games were close, they won. Their three losses came in blowouts.

The Michigan game was just awful in high pressure moments. He had an interception on 3rd down, lost a fumble on a 3rd & 10, but you could argue also that the Irish were never even competitive in that game.

But in the Georgia Tech game I already illustrated one pressure moment where if you don't convert on 3rd down, Tech has a chance with 2 minutes left and good field position to come back and win the game...and Quinn fired off a 19 yard pass down the middle.

In the Penn State game, he converted 4 of 10 third downs as Penn State was really never competitive in that game.

The Michigan State game I find to be interesting because at various moments, the Spartans had 17-0, 24-7, 31-14, and 37-21 leads during the game. Every time Brady Quinn battled back a TD, the Spartans did one better...until the 4th Quarter with 10 minutes left when, on a 4th and 5, down by 16 points, Quinn tossed a 43 yard TD to Jeff Samardjiza to bring them to within 10 points. On the next drive, Quinn tossed another TD to bring the game to within 3 points, and then Quinn would have had a chance to tie or win the game except Drew Stanton decided to throw an interception returned for a TD.

The very next game against UCLA was even more interesting...Quinn converted 7 of his 15 third and fourth down opportunities. Down 17-13, with under 4 minutes to play, Quinn directs them 28 yards and then on a 3rd & 10 he passes 9 yards to David Grimes where he needed 10 (only video would show if that was Quinn's fault or Grimes' fault, it's general perception that a receiver should know where the sticks are and make sure he gets to them). So on 4th & 1 they go for a QB sneak, but the OL gets zero push and they don't get it. UCLA goes 3-and-out though and Notre Dame gets the ball back with 1:02 remaining in the game, from their own 20 yard line...down by 4.

What happens? 3 plays, 3 passes, 3 completions, Touchdown, Notre Dame wins 20-17.

That is NUTS right there. Reminiscent of exactly what Tom Brady did to us in 2005 half-way through the season.

Champ
02-14-2007, 11:17 AM
BQ as a 4th yr starting qb had a completion rate of 50% or less for 3 out of 13 games. Season completion 61.9%. This is also the same qb that is supposed to be great at reading defenses, understands the game, has a great commitment to the game, polished, and is tutored by offensive guru Charlie Weiss.

If Quinn has all these intangibles and is always game ready, he should not be passing that poorly. i think either quinns accuracy is a big concern, or hes not as polished and nfl ready as everyone makes him out to be. Blaming the OL is a poor excuse. I want to say ND returned 4 guys(maybe a bigger ND fan can confirm) from the OL from the year before where he only suffered 20 sacks compared to 31 this yr. Sacked only 1 time vs LSU and had good pocket protection for the majority of the game.

Also plays alongside some pretty good skilled players, so lets not bring up hes not surrounded by talent.

the shark, 78rec 1017 12td
mcknight, 67rec 907 15td
darius walker 1267yds rushing, 56rec 391yds
T.E john carlson 46rec 621yds


Quinn was outplayed by Henne, Booty, and JR. Hey USC and tOSU was able to light up Michigan's defense. JPW(bama) and Tenn's backup QB put a number on LSU's D. 2 unranked team was able to win over USC.
Great leaders just find ways to make things happen and rally the team for the W even in underdog situations. It happens every week in college football.

Quinn just doesnt rise to the occasion when it counts. Waits til games are over verses big name teams to collect trash td's for stats. Quinn is still living off the close game vs USC last yr when USC had probably their worst defense this decade. oh yeah, Quinn was also able to beat an 8-5 Michigan team.

kastofsna
02-14-2007, 11:19 AM
hahaha @ he had good protection during the LSU game. what a joke. the guy was on the move the ENTIRE game. EVERY play.

Champ
02-14-2007, 11:21 AM
You must have watched a different game than I did. Of course you are the same person who thinks Russell is a bust so I have to take what you say with a grain of salt.

kastofsna
02-14-2007, 11:22 AM
we may have watched the same game, but you didn't know what you were watching. that's the difference, obviously. LSU applied pressure on EVERY. SINGLE. DOWN. unbelievable how you could thing otherwise, but then again, you think jamarcus russell, will be something in the NFL.

swtbound07
02-14-2007, 11:23 AM
You must have watched a different game than I did. Of course you are the same person who thinks Russell is a bust so I have to take what you say with a grain of salt.

you gotta take kasty with the entire shaker

Obsidian
02-15-2007, 05:35 AM
best quarterback in the draft. will be an excellent player. smart, tough, great leadership, wins games, unbelievable TD/INT ratio, doesn't make bad decisions, sound mechanically, big, strong, good arm, accurate, experience in a difficult pro offense (and GREAT success in that offense), had some big comebacks, got better each year at notre dame...pretty much the prototypical QB prospect and basically a lock to be very good in the NFL.

Whoever this post is describing sounds like a great prospect. But Brady Quinn sure as hell doesn't fit this description. I don't even think Quinn's agent could get this paragraph out with a straight face. Sure the kids a decent prospect but lets not get carried away. His arm is average at best, his balls float, which is fine when you play the service academies 3 times a year, but in the NFL, not so much. He locks onto his receivers, he holds onto the ball way to long, his pocket presence isn't very good and his decision making is far from an asset. He is mediocre to average in a bunch of categories but he doesn't really stand out in any one. In the right system he could be a Jake Delhomme type. Passable QB who can manage a game but not necessarily win it. But he is far from the second coming you make him out to be.

Texans_Chick
02-15-2007, 10:02 AM
I saw Brady Quinn at radio row at the SB.

This is neither here nor there, but seeing Brady Quinn in person is like seeing a really really tall 12 year old. When he is sitting down he looks exactly like a 12 year old--his legs are so long proportionate to his body, he looks normal sized sitting down. He doesn't look like can shave.

That doesn't mean he can't be a leader--see Major Applewhite--but it is kind of interesting trying to figure out how he would lead a group of men.

leachmtb
02-15-2007, 10:06 AM
What are you talking about ?

This is a message board...people are defensive all the time...

You know...kinda like how you just defended your idea...

There is a difference between being defensive and defending ones idea. Of course this is a message board, and opinions are always a part of it, but you essentially said that you would pass on a guy with great measurables, because you can tell that he has a bad demeanor on the field in the few games that you have watched him play. My simple point is that unless you know the person, their demeanor is oftentimes difficult to read. I offered Cutler as an example, because we were in classes together at Vanderbilt, and one of the big knocks on him (at least in the Nashville media) is that he looks like he doesn't care. But, because I had seen him in the class room, it was much easier for me to read his demeanor on the field whereas the media only has the field to choose from.

Demeanor is important. I think it is all safe to say that after watching Carr for 5 years, that he has a defeatest attitude most of the time. But, I was simply trying to show you that unless you know the person, or at least have seen them in a situation other than football (or if you've watched them play every game for 5 years), it is impossible to really understand what their demeanor is. So, that is "what I am talking about."

real
02-15-2007, 10:22 AM
There is a difference between being defensive and defending ones idea. Of course this is a message board, and opinions are always a part of it, but you essentially said that you would pass on a guy with great measurables, because you can tell that he has a bad demeanor on the field in the few games that you have watched him play.


No...that's what you assumed... you are putting words in my mouth. ... unless I say it then it's not neccessarily my opinion. I named one thing I didn't like about Quinn, and you focused on it because you assumed that was the ONLY reason I didn't think he was that good. Your mistake.

My simple point is that unless you know the person, their demeanor is oftentimes difficult to read. I offered Cutler as an example, because we were in classes together at Vanderbilt, and one of the big knocks on him (at least in the Nashville media) is that he looks like he doesn't care. But, because I had seen him in the class room, it was much easier for me to read his demeanor on the field whereas the media only has the field to choose from.


Once again you're assuming Cutler is going to be good....personally I don't think all that highly of the guy myself...I love his arm, but other than that I don't neccessarily think he's all that great a QB....Just because you think highly of him, doesn't mean I do. Bad example.




Demeanor is important. I think it is all safe to say that after watching Carr for 5 years, that he has a defeatest attitude most of the time. But, I was simply trying to show you that unless you know the person, or at least have seen them in a situation other than football (or if you've watched them play every game for 5 years), it is impossible to really understand what their demeanor is. So, that is "what I am talking about."

Are you serious ? Are you the rule maker-upper on how to judge a guys demeanor ?

First of all, you contradicted yourself. Unless you know Carr personally how would you know he has a defeatest attitude? right? So now we have to observe a guys demeanor for five years to make an educated guess about that persons Demeanor????...Pardon me....I didn't know there was an official timeline, and I cerainly didn't know you were the official time keeper...please let ME know how long I have to observe someones demeanor before I make an assumption about that persons mindframe when bad things happen....

It's not rocket science....You observe a guy, you formulate an opinion. You nor anyone else is going to tell me I have to wait five years to do so.


You are the one being defensive. You are being defensive about MY views on Quinn. I offered a different view point, and you jumped in defending Quinn and his demeanor.

kastofsna
02-15-2007, 10:27 AM
Whoever this post is describing sounds like a great prospect. But Brady Quinn sure as hell doesn't fit this description. I don't even think Quinn's agent could get this paragraph out with a straight face. Sure the kids a decent prospect but lets not get carried away. His arm is average at best, his balls float, which is fine when you play the service academies 3 times a year, but in the NFL, not so much. He locks onto his receivers, he holds onto the ball way to long, his pocket presence isn't very good and his decision making is far from an asset. He is mediocre to average in a bunch of categories but he doesn't really stand out in any one. In the right system he could be a Jake Delhomme type. Passable QB who can manage a game but not necessarily win it. But he is far from the second coming you make him out to be.
lol, i like how you just literally make things up to prove a point. i've noticed that with the way people look at quarterbacks here.

texans83
02-15-2007, 12:16 PM
Just thought I would let all of you know that ESPN's new mock draft has BQ falling to us at number 8. What do you think?

http://espn.go.com/

travfrancis
02-15-2007, 02:10 PM
Hope that doesn't happen.

Branch Anderson Gaines or Peterson.

Texans Horror
02-15-2007, 02:24 PM
He's no David Carr, and he's no Vince Young, and he's no Matt Leinart. Pass.

If we are going to get a player, I'm thinking give Carr a final year with all the tools. If he still fails, go for the USC kid - Booty.

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 02:25 PM
Hope he falls to us. i think it would be easier to find a trading partner if that's the case. teams have to really want a certain player to trade up to get him. and quinn may be that guy.

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 02:27 PM
also, there's another thread strictly on brady quinn, talking about him, i think its actually titled 'Brady Quinn'. i'll post on it so we don't keep saying the same stuff.

Ole Miss Texan
02-15-2007, 02:28 PM
Here is the original brady quinn thread.

gtexan02
02-15-2007, 03:27 PM
I say bring him in. People give him too much crap for being a "pretty boy." He's done well with no protection, has great mobility, and good pocket awareness. Would it be a slap in the face to the fans of Texas after passing on the top 3 prospects in a while?
Sure
But would it finally be admitting theey made a mistake and trying to fix it as soon as possible?
Yes

Exithios
02-15-2007, 04:04 PM
Whoever this post is describing sounds like a great prospect. But Brady Quinn sure as hell doesn't fit this description. I don't even think Quinn's agent could get this paragraph out with a straight face. Sure the kids a decent prospect but lets not get carried away. His arm is average at best, his balls float, which is fine when you play the service academies 3 times a year, but in the NFL, not so much. He locks onto his receivers, he holds onto the ball way to long, his pocket presence isn't very good and his decision making is far from an asset. He is mediocre to average in a bunch of categories but he doesn't really stand out in any one. In the right system he could be a Jake Delhomme type. Passable QB who can manage a game but not necessarily win it. But he is far from the second coming you make him out to be.

Well if what is being said here is the case, he shouldn't go before the 2nd round. That NOT being the case, he has to have some descent qualities about him. People on these boards are just to gun shy after having David Carr lead our offense for the past 5 seasons.

Brady doesn't stand out in any one aspect, but he is the most well rounded QB in the draft which makes him an asset within this draft.

Now before ya'll start flinging flaming piles of poo in my direction, I am not for or against him coming to us at the #8 spot, I put my faith in a much improved front office that they will make the best possible decision for our organization moving forward.

swtbound07
02-15-2007, 06:11 PM
you gotta take kasty with the entire shaker

Nobody laughed at this? Man, slow day

amazingandre
02-15-2007, 06:29 PM
wow didnt know id start ww3????lol w/e any way i like him.....here's why
he had a TERRIBLE oline.....guess what guys so do we.....he is like david carr yes....ill admit that....but the differnence is he is david carr whle underpressure.....our dc is not like that at all....he sux while being hurried......i think that is what we need......someone who gets the job done under pressure and is mobile enough to still get outside the pocket and throw.....we need a qb for later not now.....even if we get plummer and nate clements and all the other big names that are going around on this board we still wont win the sb......so why waste 2-3 years and get close to it and thn whoops, jake is gone so lets throw in a new qb who knows nothing and hasnt played yet??????anyone notice that we keep getting OLD GUYS even if good still we arent going anywhere???????just a thought

leachmtb
02-15-2007, 07:19 PM
No...that's what you assumed... you are putting words in my mouth. ... unless I say it then it's not neccessarily my opinion. I named one thing I didn't like about Quinn, and you focused on it because you assumed that was the ONLY reason I didn't think he was that good. Your mistake.



Once again you're assuming Cutler is going to be good....personally I don't think all that highly of the guy myself...I love his arm, but other than that I don't neccessarily think he's all that great a QB....Just because you think highly of him, doesn't mean I do. Bad example.



Are you serious ? Are you the rule maker-upper on how to judge a guys demeanor ?

First of all, you contradicted yourself. Unless you know Carr personally how would you know he has a defeatest attitude? right? So now we have to observe a guys demeanor for five years to make an educated guess about that persons Demeanor????...Pardon me....I didn't know there was an official timeline, and I cerainly didn't know you were the official time keeper...please let ME know how long I have to observe someones demeanor before I make an assumption about that persons mindframe when bad things happen....

It's not rocket science....You observe a guy, you formulate an opinion. You nor anyone else is going to tell me I have to wait five years to do so.


You are the one being defensive. You are being defensive about MY views on Quinn. I offered a different view point, and you jumped in defending Quinn and his demeanor.

You are right. I did assume that you didn't like Brady Quinn based upon demeanor alone. It was wrong of me to do so. I simply assumed that because that was your main argument that it was your main reason for not liking him. I did not mean to put words in your mouth.

I was saying that there is a difference between being defensive and defending your point of view. Being defensive offen means that you ridicule someone else for their opinion rather than state a counter point. If you feel that I have done that to you, again, I apologize, I was simply trying to offer a counter point to your point.

As far as Cutler. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, as well as me. But, my point is, which one of our opinions on Cutler carries more weight (assuming you didn't play more than high-school football, as I did not)? It would be me, because I have seen more of his games, and I know him as a person and have seen him in the class room. I was simply trying to state that the more that you see someone, or the more that you know them, the more firm your opinion about them can be. I believe that is what the original post about Peyton Manning was saying. That if you had watched him in college in one game only (against Florida), you would have thought he gives up. You are always entitled to your own opinion, and I cannot take it away from you, I was simply trying to show you that your opinion might not carry as much weight as say the head coach at Brady's High School, a Scout, or someone who has spent time talking to him. That demeanor is easier to judge the longer that you see someone.


I know that it seems that I was contradicting myself when it came to Carr. However, that was merely because I didn't express myself well enough. I was trying to say that the longer you watch someone or the more you get to know them, the better and stronger an opinion can be formed. Again, ours is weaker of Carr that say Kubiaks, but ours is much stronger of Carr than maybe Plummer (because as Texans fans, we have watched Carr play more than Plummer). Demeanor always takes time and energy to determine, and that was my point. Of course you are allowed to disagree, and I hope that you respect my opinion as much as you want me to respect yours.

As far as their being an official timeline, don't put words into my mouth and assume that I am trying to say something that I am not. Again, demeanor takes time to judge. Only a fool forms a fixed opinion about someone based upon one outing. (again, I am not calling you a fool, because I recognize that we are still only talking about your opinion, I am not making a judgment on whether it is fixed or flexible). That is also not to say that you cannot be thoroughly impressed immediately or disappointed immediately, but the longer someone impresses or disappoints, the more it strengthens the original opinion.

Nonetheless, this feud has gotten out of hand, and I think Brady Quinn will do fine, provided he gets time to sit (as I believe most quartebacks who sit and learn end up doing better in the long run). If you think differently, that's fine too. Either way, if he falls to us at 8, it strengthens our pick's value, so I hope that it happens.

steelbtexan
02-15-2007, 07:42 PM
if quinn is there you have to draft him b.p.a.
just because carr stinks doesn't mean quinn will. although I understand the sentiment

kastofsna
02-15-2007, 08:13 PM
Nobody laughed at this? Man, slow day
it was probably the lack of humor that stifled the giggles.

nice jersey playa.

Ryan
02-15-2007, 08:27 PM
I say bring him in. People give him too much crap for being a "pretty boy." He's done well with no protection, has great mobility, and good pocket awareness. Would it be a slap in the face to the fans of Texas after passing on the top 3 prospects in a while?
Sure
But would it finally be admitting theey made a mistake and trying to fix it as soon as possible?
Yes

i agree

Honoring Earl 34
02-15-2007, 10:51 PM
The biggest plus about Quinn is Charley Weiss said he'd be a top 5 QB in a couple of years .

real
02-16-2007, 09:44 AM
As far as Cutler. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, as well as me. But, my point is, which one of our opinions on Cutler carries more weight (assuming you didn't play more than high-school football, as I did not)?

I actually played D-1 ball in college...But honestly that doesn't even matter...

Neither one of our opinions carry more weight than the other. I think I'm right. You think you're right. All we can do is wait and see.

kastofsna
02-16-2007, 10:19 AM
The biggest plus about Quinn is Charley Weiss said he'd be a top 5 QB in a couple of years .
plus the fact that he's probably the most prototypical QB to enter the league since peyton manning. well, maybe carson palmer has em both beat.

HOOK'EM
02-18-2007, 05:20 AM
Lets get Quinn!

steelbtexan
02-18-2007, 09:11 PM
chalie weiss has a genuis level i.q. I trust his judgement

Mr. White
02-20-2007, 12:03 PM
Since Lance Zierlein's been talking about him, I've been warming up to the idea lately. He's the only QB that was in the conversation with VY, Leinart and Cutler last year. If he has a strong showing in his offseason workouts, then he's worth taking.

amazingandre
02-20-2007, 03:43 PM
No one on here has anything worth even considering not taking him....everyone that has said no to him says he reminds them of carr......so what carr coiuldve and could still be great we screwed him up......thats not what was asked.......he is an EXCELLENT prospect and WILL BE A HELL OF A QB ...and if he is there at 8 we need to take him....he will be bpa....maybe not the flashiest but the bpa........jmo