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View Full Version : Moulds not the answer?


HJam72
02-10-2007, 08:51 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4541745.html

The he and him in these quotes is Andre Johnson.

"Next year, I'd like to see him make more big plays," Kubiak said. "And that is going to happen if our team gets more balanced. We saw coverages last season that I've never seen in all my years of football. A number of teams simply said, 'You're not going to throw this guy the ball.' "

"But people started saying, 'He won't beat us.' It was smart on their part. I don't have a number for how many balls I want him to catch next season, but he should be our most explosive player. And the more help we can get him, the more explosive he will become."

The Texans' struggling running game slowed Johnson's production last season as well as David Carr's inconsistency and Eric Moulds' ineffectiveness as a No. 2 receiver.

The Texans will use free agency and the draft to pursue a starting running back, a potential replacement for Carr and a playmaking No. 2 receiver.

Vinny
02-10-2007, 09:03 AM
"Next year, I'd like to see him make more big plays," Kubiak said. "And that is going to happen if our team gets more balanced. We saw coverages last season that I've never seen in all my years of football. A number of teams simply said, 'You're not going to throw this guy the ball.' "

"But people started saying, 'He won't beat us.' It was smart on their part.
Kubiak has been in the league for decades and debunks the Andre bashers. Andre gets an unprecedented amount of attention and was isolated as the one person to take out of the offense...so it is fitting many of our fans did nothing but jump him and blame him for our woes just to defend DC. classic.

Moulds has no speed anymore...the reason Buffalo let him go...that much was obvious last year.

leachmtb
02-10-2007, 09:04 AM
I say wait a year and draft Earl Bennett out of Vanderbilt. He is on pace to break the all-time SEC receiving numbers next year as a junior. Of course all of you will laugh at me, because none of you have heard of him, but I'll be a Vandy homer just as much as all of you will be a TU homer.

Vinny
02-10-2007, 09:08 AM
I say wait a year and draft Earl Bennett out of Vanderbilt. He is on pace to break the all-time SEC receiving numbers next year as a junior. Of course all of you will laugh at me, because none of you have heard of him, but I'll be a Vandy homer just as much as all of you will be a TU homer.
You don't wait a year to cherry pick a prospect in a draft where you have 31 other teams also looking at prospects....if you wait, you lose....chances are if he is good, other teams know it too. If you have a weakness you resolve it as you see it.

leachmtb
02-10-2007, 09:15 AM
You don't wait a year to cherry pick a prospect in a draft where you have 31 other teams also looking at prospects....if you wait, you lose....chances are if he is good, other teams know it too. If you have a weakness you resolve it as you see it.

I know, I just get tired of everyone else making ridiculous comments, so I thought I would try to add one early on. More than anything I just want this guy to get some national attention.

amazingandre
02-10-2007, 09:56 AM
Well there really isnt any good wr in fa so i think well have to get one via draft....

Dunta_23
02-10-2007, 10:18 AM
Does this mean that possibly Dwayne Jarrett or Ted Ginn are in the picture in the first round???

Or can you get a good playmaking #2 later on??

Vinny
02-10-2007, 10:23 AM
Does this mean that possibly Dwayne Jarrett or Ted Ginn are in the picture in the first round???

Or can you get a good playmaking #2 later on??
Hines Ward was a 3rd rounder....Terrell Owens was a 3rd rounder.. Joe Horn was a 5th rounder...last year Colston was a 7th rounder (this is really an exception)...but to answer the question....yeah, you can get a playmaker at wr later if you scout well enough.

Dunta_23
02-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Does anyone believe that Jerome Mathis has what it takes to be a reliable #2 on this team, or is he more of a #4/KR strictly

dirty steve
02-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Does this mean that possibly Dwayne Jarrett or Ted Ginn are in the picture in the first round???

Or can you get a good playmaking #2 later on??
from what i have read, the WR depth is pretty decent in this draft. it looks like ginn, jarrett, calvin johnson, and dwayne bowe are the most likely first rounders. i am not real fond of taking WR in the first unless the value is just too good to pass up. there are also guys you could likely get in the 2nd round like sidney rice, robert meachem, and anthony gonzalez. i'd prefer to grab somebody like this.

Vinny
02-10-2007, 10:28 AM
Does anyone believe that Jerome Mathis has what it takes to be a reliable #2 on this team, or is he more of a #4/KR strictly at best he looks like a wr3 to me...but it's hard to say. One thing I do know is you shouldn't just assume a project will be a player and not address a position of need....and Mathis is a wr project.

GuerillaBlack
02-10-2007, 10:30 AM
If Marshawn Lynch and Calvin Johnson are available at 8, who should the Texans take?

TwinSisters
02-10-2007, 10:47 AM
Hines Ward was a 3rd rounder....Terrell Owens was a 3rd rounder.. Joe Horn was a 5th rounder...last year Colston was a 7th rounder (this is really an exception)...but to answer the question....yeah, you can get a playmaker at wr later if you scout well enough.

Mike Furrey.

V Man
02-10-2007, 11:30 AM
If Marshawn Lynch and Calvin Johnson are available at 8, who should the Texans take?

Calvin Johnson, but it doesn't matter cause he won't be there @ 8.

mexican_texan
02-10-2007, 11:35 AM
Kevin Curtis, perhaps? Furrey already re-signed with the Lions.

ThaShark316
02-10-2007, 11:37 AM
Johnson goes 3 or 4 (tampa)...or 7th if he falls.

nunusguy
02-10-2007, 11:59 AM
I dunno, but does this mean that the Moulds FA acquisition last year was
another personnel misfire by Kubiak & Co. ?

K.D.
02-10-2007, 12:02 PM
Meachem would fit perfect with this team. This guy is big and fast, and catches everything trown his way. If AP isnt there at 8, I hope we trade down and pick up an extra pick in the 2nd rnd, then pick this guy. I never thought of Moulds to be the playmaker he once was, he is a possesion receiver for us at this stage in his career. I'm just pissed that DC didn't even bother to look at this guy more often. One thing he can do is move the chains and get some pressure taken off of AJ.

Double Barrel
02-10-2007, 12:52 PM
I dunno, but does this mean that the Moulds FA acquisition last year was
another personnel misfire by Kubiak & Co. ?

Probably not from a mentoring standpoint. I know his experience was a big factor in bringing him to Houston in order to give AJ some solid advice and examples to follow.

V Man
02-10-2007, 01:22 PM
I dunno, but does this mean that the Moulds FA acquisition last year was
another personnel misfire by Kubiak & Co. ?

Probably not from a mentoring standpoint. I know his experience was a big factor in bringing him to Houston in order to give AJ some solid advice and examples to follow.

Plus he would have or should have been a solid possession reciever, but the league soon figured out that we can't throw down field and all the recievers numbers dropped not just Moulds.

TwinSisters
02-10-2007, 02:01 PM
Kevin Curtis, perhaps? Furrey already re-signed with the Lions.

nah, I was just using his name in the context of drafted talent. He was undrafted and sifted through the Colts, the XFL, AFL, the Rams ( as a DB with some highlights ), and then shows up in Detroit where they drafted 3 #1 WRs.

In Detroit, he has a break out season ( his only full starting season ).

It's a one off example for sure, but damn... it does highlight how wrong you can be. The Colts and the Rams passing on him? Those are not lower tier talent evaluators.

bah007
02-10-2007, 02:07 PM
I'd like to see us draft Jason Hill (Washington St) in the 3rd.

He did well at the Senior Bowl.

With the numbers I expect him to put up at the Combine, I dont expect him to fall that far tho.

Tulip
02-10-2007, 04:54 PM
I haven't given up on Moulds. Our #2 just isn't going to get big numbers with the existing QB.

Also, I think he's a good presence on the team and good for Andre.

HJam72
02-10-2007, 06:34 PM
I guess my opinion about Moulds is that he does a great job of catching passes, despite being covered well. I don't think he has the speed or quickness to get open as well as he used to though, and I think Carr is afraid to throw him the ball when he is covered, which is almost always. We do need a WR2 that can actually get open, but I'd put a lot of this on Carr. You know that anybody but Andre is gonna have to be totally wide open to even have chance of getting the ball thrown their way. Just my :twocents:

CowboysTexansFan
02-10-2007, 08:03 PM
I agree. I think a lot of the reason for Moulds' lack of production relative to expectations was the poor play of the QB and offensive line. At the end of the season, Carr was basically being allowed to take 3 step drops to avoid a stupid decision on his part or a sack (caused by Carr or poor blocking by the O-line).

One thing that hurt the offense for a number of games was the team's decision to take a good look at Hodgdon. I can understand why the coaches did it -- they needed to know who among the younger guys could play and who couldn't -- but Hodgdon was so bad relative to McKinney it really hurt the team and Carr. I can't imagine Hodgdon will be back in any capacity next year, because he didn't demonstrate to me that he even belongs in the NFL as a backup. I thought he got consistently owned more than all the other offensive lineman on the team put together.

The play of the O-line improved substantially when McKinney was inserted as the starting center. (I can't believe I just said that, but it's true...)

fdknuckles
02-10-2007, 10:05 PM
Anderson... is the answer...or 7th rounder last year is tenacious and given the oppourtunity could be solid enough to be our 3rd with Johnson and Moulds

cuppacoffee
02-10-2007, 11:32 PM
Kubiak has been in the league for decades and debunks the Andre bashers. Andre gets an unprecedented amount of attention and was isolated as the one person to take out of the offense...so it is fitting many of our fans did nothing but jump him and blame him for our woes just to defend DC. classic.

Moulds has no speed anymore...the reason Buffalo let him go...that much was obvious last year.

"But people started saying, 'He won't beat us.' It was smart on their part. I don't have a number for how many balls I want him to catch next season, but he should be our most explosive player. And the more help we can get him, the more explosive he will become."

OOOKKKAY...So Andre needs more help.... but Carr doesn't? :hmmm:

"Andre gets an unprecedented amount of attention and was isolated as the one person to take out of the offense.."

Not really....Carr is the first one isolated and taken out of the offense.
Check the number of hurries and sacks he has endured.

I've questioned Andres' play, am I a basher? I don't think so, maybe you do.

Is pointing out the flaws in Andres' game, such as dropping passes and wimping out when it comes to fighting a db for the ball considered defending DC?

That's just my impression / opinion of Andres' play.

You were the first poster that I can remember pointing out Carrs deficiencies (yes he has them) almost three years ago. You have been proven right.

However..I do not believe that Carr deserves all the blame for the teams woes and certainly doesn't deserve any of the venom and name calling aimed his way..:dangit:

I realize that you have refrained from this, but many haven't.

Civility has become a lost art to many of the posters here.

I hope for Carrs sake he is traded/released this year, he deserves better treatment from his teams fans than he is getting here.

Until he is though, I will support him because he is the Texans qb.

If he is released/traded, I reserve the right to say "I told you so" when he is successful somewhere else.

Why the blind eye for Andre?

:coffee:

Even a thread about Moulds morphs into a Carr thread. Amazing isn't it.:D

cj5776
02-11-2007, 12:22 AM
For a fifth round pick I thought Moulds was a nice pickup. Even though we should draft someone, I see Moulds starting for one more year.

SamuraiSword
02-11-2007, 12:31 AM
I haven't given up on Moulds. Our #2 just isn't going to get big numbers with the existing QB.

Also, I think he's a good presence on the team and good for Andre.

I agree with you on that. I hardly ever saw Moulds got any reps at anytime during the games. You saw Carr look down the field and only locked eyes on Andre. I don't understand the other argument why do people continue to bash andre as well??? I do notice from Carr fans that all they mention is blame the offense, blame the wide receivers, etc... I just don't get it?????????????

Carr Bombed
02-11-2007, 12:59 AM
Most of yall are looking at this the wrong way. Moulds can be a very good #2. Look at Keyshawn and Muhammad. It doesn't matter who it is, the problem is the #2 WR is the 4th option, behind AJ, the RB, and TE. Just look at Gaffney in NE. Moulds brings leadership and he can play the position, atleast for another year.

Tulip
02-11-2007, 11:24 AM
OOOKKKAY...So Andre needs more help.... but Carr doesn't? :hmmm:



The difference is that Andre Johnson is a Pro Bowler without that extra help.

Carr is average on his best days, so getting him a ton of extra help may or may not get him where Kubiak wants him. That's a bad gamble.

With Andre, you know what an improved QB would get him. With David, you don't know what an improved o-line, receiving corps, and group of running backs would get him.

yourfavoritetexan42
02-11-2007, 07:28 PM
Surprising... I don't really think Moulds had a bad year...he just wasn't utilized. I don't think we should really worry about receiver right now...we have a lot more things to worry about.

cuppacoffee
02-11-2007, 10:57 PM
The difference is that Andre Johnson is a Pro Bowler without that extra help.

Carr is average on his best days, so getting him a ton of extra help may or may not get him where Kubiak wants him. That's a bad gamble.

With Andre, you know what an improved QB would get him. With David, you don't know what an improved o-line, receiving corps, and group of running backs would get him.

Right. You / we don't know. So lets all ass ume it wouldn't help him. :rolleyes:

Have you not seen Andre drop passes? Get outmuscled by much smaller db's? Run five yard routes when we need six yards? Or is all of your attention focused solely on Carr?

Have you posted about it on this MB?..idonno: I doubt it.

Carr is still our qb :throwball: and I will support him as long as he is here.

I've never said he was perfect.

:coffee:

NEROtheZERO
02-12-2007, 08:21 AM
Get outmuscled by much smaller db's?

You keep bringing this up. That has happened a total of one times and it was on a pass that was severely underthrown that Andre had to make a full top and run back toward the ball to try and get ahold of. He had the corner beat, so the corner (who was Clements, one of the best in the league, IIRC) obviously had a better play on the ball. In fact, it is amazing that Andre even got back to that ball. He made himself look bad on that play by hustling and playing as hard as he did.

real
02-12-2007, 08:28 AM
The difference is that Andre Johnson is a Pro Bowler without that extra help.


No the difference is that Andre IS Carr's help, and Carr is still bad.

Carr can be looked as road block in Andre's career.

Andre is good. Carr isn't.

Andre looks like a good player with poor players around him. Carr IS one of those poor players.

cuppacoffee
02-12-2007, 12:19 PM
You keep bringing this up. That has happened a total of one times and it was on a pass that was severely underthrown that Andre had to make a full top and run back toward the ball to try and get ahold of. He had the corner beat, so the corner (who was Clements, one of the best in the league, IIRC) obviously had a better play on the ball. In fact, it is amazing that Andre even got back to that ball. He made himself look bad on that play by hustling and playing as hard as he did.


Really?...Obviously we watch the games with entirely different agendas'.

People often just see what they wish to see.

There really were WMDs all over Iraq.

The Iraqi defense minister really knew what was going on during the invasion.

You and all the Carr haters on this site know infinitely much more about football and the qb position than Gary Kubiak...:rolleyes:

Carry on with your hatred, it gives us something to discuss during the off season.


:coffee:

hollywood_texan
02-12-2007, 12:48 PM
I believe the overall criticisms of Moulds are justified. But, what player at #2 WR is going to be perfect? Very few teams have high-end #2 wide receivers, and the teams that do have top-tier marquee QBs!

Despite Moulds lack of speed, he is still a savy vet with a ton of experience and probably is classified as a good player. He was traded for a 5th round draft pick, why should he be counted on carrying such a big load at that value?

Moulds' job is to be a roll player and Carr/Johnson are supposed to be the key players to the offense that makes everyone better. Also, keep in mind it is the QB's job is to make everyone better, not the other way around.

TheOgre
02-12-2007, 01:12 PM
This team has so many pressing needs. I think many of them will be filled this offseason, but some of them will have to wait until 2008.



A side note: Is it just me or does "wait until 2008" sound way in the future? It doesn't seem that long ago that 2010 came out.

srstex
02-12-2007, 01:24 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4541745.html

The he and him in these quotes is Andre Johnson.

"Next year, I'd like to see him make more big plays," Kubiak said. "And that is going to happen if our team gets more balanced. We saw coverages last season that I've never seen in all my years of football. A number of teams simply said, 'You're not going to throw this guy the ball.' "

"But people started saying, 'He won't beat us.' It was smart on their part. I don't have a number for how many balls I want him to catch next season, but he should be our most explosive player. And the more help we can get him, the more explosive he will become."

The Texans' struggling running game slowed Johnson's production last season as well as David Carr's inconsistency and Eric Moulds' ineffectiveness as a No. 2 receiver.

The Texans will use free agency and the draft to pursue a starting running back, a potential replacement for Carr and a playmaking No. 2 receiver.



In the quote did Kubiak just say he got out coached?

QB75
02-12-2007, 01:29 PM
When the coaching staff reviews the existing roster, I don't think that replacing Eric Moulds is going to be at the top of the list of priorities for either the draft or free agent market. He is doing fine.

edo783
02-12-2007, 02:32 PM
In a 2 second 3 step drop, just how many balls are supposed to be thrown the way of the #2 WR? In our system it was painfully obviouse that AJ was the primary read ~90% of the time. The line couldn't hold up to get a bead on the second guy, so out to the safety valve. IMO, the mistake that was made was keeping with AJ as the primary read. IMO, if we should have made Moulds or even Walters the primary and chucked the ball their way at least 6-8 times a game, the defense would have to back off trying to smother AJ and then he would become more effective. Constantly calling for the ball to be chucked to AJ contributed to the problem because EVERYBODY knew where the ball was going to go. Practically didn't have to cover anyone else.

Texans_Chick
02-12-2007, 02:44 PM
Has anyone looked at how many opportunties Moulds had per game?

I haven't looked at it, but it didn't seem like Moulds had too many opportunities per game. And I can think of a number of games where I saw him massively wide open.

Carr seemed to be trying to force it AJ a lot, even when it wasn't adviseable. (See e.g. first Titans game).

I know early in the season Football Outisiders had Moulds listed really high in its player efficiency stats. They made a point of saying that his stats were way better than what was happening in Buffalo. Then he stopped getting the ball. Hard to be effective when you aren't getting the ball thrown to you much.


The Texans' struggling running game slowed Johnson's production last season as well as David Carr's inconsistency and Eric Moulds' ineffectiveness as a No. 2 receiver.

This is a conclusion of the author of the story and not a quote from Kubiak. Is this the Texans' point of view or is it just the author's?

You can't talk about the passing game without mentioning that the Texans line was a revolving door comprised of mostly old guys and young guys.

I would make a personal donation to the hire Alex Gibbs as consultant to the Texans fund. I know he is semi-retired, but it would be nice to have some hope that the line is going to get better, and in a way that is consistent with what Kubiak is trying to do with the rest of the offense.

Honoring Earl 34
02-12-2007, 02:48 PM
If Mathis would get with the program and could stay healthy ... he could draw some attention .

Lucky
02-12-2007, 03:10 PM
Has anyone looked at how many opportunties Moulds had per game?
78 targets or slightly less than 5/game.

49 receptions over the first 11 games, 8 over the last 5.

Average reception was made 5.8 yards from the LOS. In contrast, Dallas TE Jason Witten's average reception was made 7.7 yards from the LOS.

Texans_Chick
02-12-2007, 05:18 PM
78 targets or slightly less than 5/game.

49 receptions over the first 11 games, 8 over the last 5.

Average reception was made 5.8 yards from the LOS. In contrast, Dallas TE Jason Witten's average reception was made 7.7 yards from the LOS.

That is just so messed up. I realized there was a drop off, but that is pretty dang stark.

According to the Football Outsider guys, earlier this season, Eric Moulds was rated second after Roy Williams in their Defense-adjusted Points Above Replcement metric:

link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6068164)

ib4texans
02-12-2007, 05:34 PM
In a 2 second 3 step drop, just how many balls are supposed to be thrown the way of the #2 WR? In our system it was painfully obviouse that AJ was the primary read ~90% of the time. The line couldn't hold up to get a bead on the second guy, so out to the safety valve. IMO, the mistake that was made was keeping with AJ as the primary read. IMO, if we should have made Moulds or even Walters the primary and chucked the ball their way at least 6-8 times a game, the defense would have to back off trying to smother AJ and then he would become more effective. Constantly calling for the ball to be chucked to AJ contributed to the problem because EVERYBODY knew where the ball was going to go. Practically didn't have to cover anyone else.


I agree with this philosophy. However, the may not get AJ most receptions in the NFL.

KennyHolmes99
02-13-2007, 10:25 AM
Well there really isnt any good wr in fa so i think well have to get one via draft....

Donte' Stallworth
Justin McCareins
Drew Bennett
Ashley Lelie


They are not #1's obviously but would make great #2's.

TwinSisters
02-13-2007, 07:56 PM
78 targets or slightly less than 5/game.

49 receptions over the first 11 games, 8 over the last 5.

Average reception was made 5.8 yards from the LOS. In contrast, Dallas TE Jason Witten's average reception was made 7.7 yards from the LOS.

Last 5, three 3 wins 2 loses.

( and only one blowout to the Pats )