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real
02-07-2007, 11:08 AM
I think it's common knowledge that we need to upgrade our LB corps.

Meco has the middle sewn up. Greenwood while not spectacular was presentable. Still replaceable. Orr for a lot of the season was a non-factor.

I thought we could talk about some of the possible prospects that we can grab in the later rds. that may be able to come in and start for us.

A guy I like in rd. 3 is Earl Everett (http://www.gatorzone.com/football/bios.php?year=2006&player_id=28). On the team site they have him listed at 6-3, 234 lbs. I watched a lot of Gator games this year, and he was definitely one of the better players on their defense. Big physical guy that can rush the passer with good speed. IMO, a definite upgrade over either one of our OLB's.

Anybody think Lawrence Timmons (http://seminoles.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/timmons_lawrence00.html) or Paul Posluszny (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=157&p=8&c=1&nid=1719149) will be available when we pick in the second round ?

bah007
02-07-2007, 11:14 AM
No way Posluszny is still there. If Timmons is there I would want him (unless Juwan Simpson is still on the board).

real
02-07-2007, 11:16 AM
Did Juwan Simpson recently get arrested ?

real
02-07-2007, 11:17 AM
or was that a while ago ?

real
02-07-2007, 11:18 AM
May 21, 2006
Juwan Simpson Arrested
Filed under: Football — Nico @ 5:18 pm
Alabama linebacker Juwan Simpson was arrested on Saturday for receiving stolen property, possession of marijuana, and carrying a pistol without a license.

This is incredibly shocking given that Simpson has been nothing short of upstanding in his time at Alabama. He’s an Academic All-SEC athlete, he’s already graduated and is working on a second degree, he received the Derrick Thomas Award (the team’s service award) and was nominated for the Lott Trophy which is based on a combination of academics, athletics, public service and character.


http://southerngent.org/?p=299

It's old...

bah007
02-07-2007, 11:19 AM
Did Juwan Simpson recently get arrested ?

I havent heard anything about that.

I think he was arrested last year for something but he was Academic All-SEC so he should be smart enough to have avoided doing something stupid again.

He was also a semi-finalist for the Lott trophy so I would expect that he is of good character.

Hottoddie
02-07-2007, 12:56 PM
Stephen Nicholas.

Of course, if we don't limit ourselves to OLB's only, we could make a run at Desmond Bishop (ILB) & shift DeMeco to the outside. I'd sure like to see DeMeco coming off the edge regularly.

real
02-07-2007, 01:13 PM
Stephen Nicholas.

Of course, if we don't limit ourselves to OLB's only, we could make a run at Desmond Bishop (ILB) & shift DeMeco to the outside. I'd sure like to see DeMeco coming off the edge regularly.

I've thought about Meco on the outside as well...

On one hand, he was a top 3 MLB this year....

On the other hand, Can he be more devastaing on the outside ?


Personally I'd just leave him in the middle...He has good range at the position, good instincts, and he's become our defensive leader. I'm hoping he can lock that spot down for years to come.

DocBar
02-07-2007, 01:21 PM
I've thought about Meco on the outside as well...

On one hand, he was a top 3 MLB this year....

On the other hand, Can he be more devastaing on the outside ?


Personally I'd just leave him in the middle...He has good range at the position, good instincts, and he's become our defensive leader. I'm hoping he can lock that spot down for years to come.

AMEN, BROTHER!!!!!:marionaner:

Bubbajwp
02-07-2007, 01:29 PM
Desmond Bishop could play OLB. I really think he would be a great pick for us in the third round.

amazingandre
02-07-2007, 01:31 PM
Ya I agree, that would be very risky if we moved him outside for no reason. He ajusted so if we do get someone who is an isl then we could move them outside and let them adjust. i would not like it at all if meco was moved. He will hopefully be the best mlb next year. And make the pro bowl, ,so i say leave him.

real
02-07-2007, 01:36 PM
Desmond Bishop (http://calbears.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bishop_desmond00.html)

2006: A first team All-Pac-10 selection and a third-team All-American by Rivals.com ... led the Pac-10 with 126 tackles and 9.7 tackles per game (14th in the nation) ... also has a team-high 15 tackles for loss (fourth in the Pac-10) ... averaged 11.2 tackles per game over the last six games ... tallied a game-high 12 tackles to earn Defensive MVP honors in the Holiday Bowl, a 45-10 Cal win over Texas A&M ... recorded 10 tackles in his final home game, a victory over Stanford ... tallied a game-high 13 tackles against USC ... led the Bears with eight tackles and a sack against Arizona ... snared an interception for his second straight game against UCLA while adding eight tackles and a pass break-up ... had a statement game against Washington with a career-high 16 tackles and the game-clinching interception on the goal-line in overtime ... tied for a team-high eight tackles against Washington State ... registered 10 tackles (eight solo) with an interception and a sack against Oregon ... tallied six tackles and a tackle for loss at Oregon State while also forcing a fumble on the Cal 12-yard line to halt OSU's first drive of the game ... recorded his first career sack, recovered a fumble and added nine tackles against Arizona State ... had six tackles (two for losses) and recovered a fumble against Portland State ... led the Bears with 13 tackles, one for a loss, against Minnesota.

2005: A second-team All-Pac-10 linebacker in his first season of Division I football ... finished No. 14 in the Pac-10 in total tackles and led the Bears with 89, including 62 solos ... led Cal in tackles seven times in 12 games ... ended the regular season with five tackles behind the line of scrimmage against Stanford ... best game came against top-ranked USC when he was credited with 12 solo tackles, the most by a Bear all season ... had 11 tackles against Illinois ... at Oregon, had nine stops, including two tackles behind the line of scrimmage ... recorded seven tackles, a tackle for loss and forced a fumble in the Bears' victory at Washington ... finished the season with eight tackles, a tackle for a loss and a pass break-up in the bowl victory over Brigham Young.

MLB
02-07-2007, 01:56 PM
Meco is not your proto-typical MLB in size. At 236# he is undersized for that position. A MLB has to fight very large offensive guards, perhaps a center occasionnaly and should be around 245-250# to hold his own. I think he would be awesome at OLB. Look at Ray Lewis (250#), Brian Urlacher (258#).

kastofsna
02-07-2007, 01:57 PM
Stewart Bradley, Nebraska.

real
02-07-2007, 01:59 PM
Meco is not your proto-typical MLB in size. At 236# he is undersized for that position. A MLB has to fight very large offensive guards, perhaps a center occasionnaly and should be around 245-250# to hold his own. I think he would be awesome at OLB. Look at Ray Lewis (250#), Brian Urlacher (258#).

Why does that matter ? He's already proven that he can get in done in the middle. I don't see how that has any relevance at this point.

real
02-07-2007, 02:01 PM
Stewart Bradley, Nebraska.

Stewart Bradley (http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=4&SPID=22&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=18626&Q_SEASON=2006)


2006 Outlook
Senior Stewart Bradley is one of three members of a talented Husker linebacker corps eager to get back on the field after a season-ending injury in 2005. Bradley missed the final seven games of the 2005 season after he suffered a knee injury against Texas Tech in game five.
Bradley has made steady progress during his rehabilitation, and took part in most non-contact drills during spring practice. Although Bradley did not see contact in the spring, he is expected to be at full speed for the start of fall camp.
The 6-4, 245-pound Bradley provides a physical run-stopping presence at the SAM linebacker spot, while possessing the athleticism to play the perimeter and cover opposing receivers. Bradley is a key component to a Nebraska linebacker unit that could rank among the best and deepest in the nation in 2006. With Bradley out of live action in the spring, junior Lance Brandenburgh took the majority of the snaps with the top unit at SAM linebacker and the position should be in great shape for the 2006 campaign.
Bradley opened the 2005 season in strong fashion, collecting 26 tackles, including five tackles for loss and three sacks in the seasonís first five games. He also reached the end zone for the first time in his career, returning an interception 43 yards for a touchdown in the Huskersí 31-3 win over Wake Forest. Bradley had a pair of seven-tackle efforts before his injury.
Bradley redshirted in 2002, then made a big impression as a Mike linebacker during spring camp in 2003. He was moved to defensive end in the fall of 2003, and played a key role on Nebraska's special teams with six tackles. He had a breakout season in 2004, taking over the starting role at SAM linebacker. Bradley finished second on the team with 67 tackles and 11 tackles for loss.
An accounting major, Bradley is on track to earn his undergraduate degree this December.

MLB
02-07-2007, 02:04 PM
Why does that matter ? He's already proven that he can get in done in the middle. I don't see how that has any relevance at this point.

Well, there was a certain play at the end of the Titan's game where VY ran right by him because he was overpowerd and out of position. You don't hear a lot about those plays, only the ones he does good on. I like Meco and think he as done an excellent job at MLB for his size but think his natural position in the NFL is OLB due to his size.

real
02-07-2007, 02:12 PM
Well, there was a certain play at the end of the Titan's game where VY ran right by him because he was overpowerd and out of position. You don't hear a lot about those plays, only the ones he does good on. I like Meco and think he as done an excellent job at MLB for his size but think his natural position in the NFL is OLB due to his size.

I understand what you're saying....

But I'm willing to sacrafice that size for his range...Because of his instincts and quickness, a lot of times he was able to diagnose the play and shoot the gap into the backfield to make a play. He has great range and can make plays from sideline to sideline. I'd rather him be in the middle because he has shown a nack for quickly diagnosing plays, and that is tremendous for a MLB. The guy was at the very top in the leauge in tackles. I'm not sure why you'd move a guy who played so well.

kastofsna
02-07-2007, 02:15 PM
unless you guys are thinking of going Tampa 2, there's no reason to move Ryans.

MLB
02-07-2007, 02:21 PM
I understand what you're saying....

But I'm willing to sacrafice that size for his range...Because of his instincts and quickness, a lot of times he was able to diagnose the play and shoot the gap into the backfield to make a play. He has great range and can make plays from sideline to sideline. I'd rather him be in the middle because he has shown a nack for quickly diagnosing plays, and that is tremendous for a MLB. The guy was at the very top in the leauge in tackles. I'm not sure why you'd move a guy who played so well.

I would move him simply because he is physically playing out-of-position for his size. He would make a tremendous OLB because of his smaller size and quickness. You can blitz from the outside too. I just don't like players playing out of position, something the Texans are well known for.

real
02-07-2007, 02:26 PM
I would move him simply because he is physically playing out-of-position for his size. He would make a tremendous OLB because of his smaller size and quickness. You can blitz from the outside too. I just don't like players playing out of position, something the Texans are well known for.

I don't know that he'd be an effective blitzer. That's speculation. What I don know is he is a trmendous MLB.

If he were playing OLB he wouldn't make as many plays. Ryans strength so far has been stopping the run, both inside and out. If we moved him outside he wouldn't be able to make plays from sideline to sideline.

Ole Miss Texan
02-07-2007, 02:28 PM
I trust this staff to do what they think is best...in the end they know so much more than any of us do.

I'm not against him playing at mike, but I think they didn't have much of an option last season as to nobody else could. Plus he showed great leadership and ability to take on this role.

I'm not against them moving him outside. I feel everyone is over reacting to the idea of him moving outside...basically saying he played so good at mlb they are scared to move him outside then all of a sudden he won't do good.

He is smaller/lighter than they typical mlb. he has shown he can handle it for one season but are any of yall worried about his long term health and play? could he playing there 'undersized' have an effect on his long term durability?

I think just about every position on our team is getting a shake up over the offseason. I think they'll get the best three lb's out there. any way they can.

MLB
02-07-2007, 02:32 PM
Ryans strength so far has been stopping the run, both inside and out. If we moved him outside he wouldn't be able to make plays from sideline to sideline.

I would disagree with a portion of that. It seems to me that he is much better chasing down plays (smaller size helps) than defending ones coming right at him (size helps). Case in point, the VY run at end of Titans game. The primary defensive responsibility of the MLB is the middle gaps, everything else is gravy but you must be rock solid on middle runs. I don't see that being the case here.

real
02-07-2007, 02:38 PM
I would disagree with a portion of that. It seems to me that he is much better chasing down plays (smaller size helps) than defending ones coming right at him (size helps). Case in point, the VY run at end of Titans game. The primary defensive responsibility of the MLB is the middle gaps, everything else is gravy but you must be rock solid on middle runs. I don't see that being the case here.

I remember that play. One thing you should take into consideration is that he was a rookie, and rookies make rookie mistakes. For every play that you can come up with that he got blocked on I can point out ten more where he made a good play. Meco was borderline amazing playing MLB. I seriously doubt they even consider moving him.

infantrycak
02-07-2007, 02:51 PM
Meco is not your proto-typical MLB in size. At 236# he is undersized for that position. A MLB has to fight very large offensive guards, perhaps a center occasionnaly and should be around 245-250# to hold his own. I think he would be awesome at OLB. Look at Ray Lewis (250#), Brian Urlacher (258#).

Geez, when is this "truism" about MLB size going to die the death it deserves. Take a look at the pro-bowl MLB's over the last few years and the guys who have been impact rookies and you will see predominately guys DeMeco's size such as:

DeMeco Ryans 6' 1" 236 lbs

Lofa Tatupu 6' 238 lbs
Donnie Edwards 6' 2" 227 lbs
Jonathon Vilma 6' 1" 230 lbs
Odell Thurman 6' 235 lbs
Zach Thomas 5' 11" 235 lbs
Al Wilson 6' 240 lbs
Antonio Pierce 6' 1" 238 lbs

FYI--Ray Lewis wasn't 250 lbs coming out of college and was considered too small by many.

Urlacher is the exception in the current NFL, not the norm.

Moving Ryans also takes him out of the playcalling/leadership role he is very good at.

real
02-07-2007, 02:53 PM
Geez, when is this "truism" about MLB size going to die the death it deserves. Take a look at the pro-bowl MLB's over the last few years and the guys who have been impact rookies and you will see predominately guys DeMeco's size such as:

DeMeco Ryans 6' 1" 236 lbs

Lofa Tatupu 6' 238 lbs
Donnie Edwards 6' 2" 227 lbs
Jonathon Vilma 6' 1" 230 lbs
Odell Thurman 6' 235 lbs
Zach Thomas 5' 11" 235 lbs
Al Wilson 6' 240 lbs
Antonio Pierce 6' 1" 238 lbs

FYI--Ray Lewis wasn't 250 lbs coming out of college and was considered too small by many.

Urlacher is the exception in the current NFL, not the norm.

Moving Ryans also takes him out of the playcalling/leadership role he is very good at.

Well...

I think that ends the argument.

MLB
02-07-2007, 02:58 PM
Geez, when is this "truism" about MLB size going to die the death it deserves. Take a look at the pro-bowl MLB's over the last few years and the guys who have been impact rookies and you will see predominately guys DeMeco's size such as:

DeMeco Ryans 6' 1" 236 lbs

Lofa Tatupu 6' 238 lbs
Donnie Edwards 6' 2" 227 lbs
Jonathon Vilma 6' 1" 230 lbs
Odell Thurman 6' 235 lbs
Zach Thomas 5' 11" 235 lbs
Al Wilson 6' 240 lbs
Antonio Pierce 6' 1" 238 lbs

FYI--Ray Lewis wasn't 250 lbs coming out of college and was considered too small by many.

Urlacher is the exception in the current NFL, not the norm.

Moving Ryans also takes him out of the playcalling/leadership role he is very good at.



And the knock on some of the smaller guys was there size on the scouting reports. Sure it can be done but there won't be much up side over the long run since they are stretching there abilities to just stay where they are at with the MLB position.

I don't know why anyone would say that size doesn't matter in the NFL. The two poster child MLB's are 250+. These guys are the poster children for a reason, they are playing there natural position for one and they are just badaz...

V Man
02-07-2007, 03:06 PM
The only way I would consider moving Ryans would be if we got Patrick Willis. Replace a tackling machine with a tackling machine. But that doesn't help us with our weakest LB spot (Strongside). Willis would play MLB, Ryans would play WLB (chances would be that Greenwood would be let go) and still no SLB (unless we draft Everett in the 3rd,[but I don't see us drafting 2 LBs that high]).

infantrycak
02-07-2007, 03:08 PM
And the knock on some of the smaller guys was there size on the scouting reports.

Sure some draft gurus keep spewing the same truism but it clearly isn't true according to NFL coaches and GM's anymore.

Sure it can be done but there won't be much up side over the long run since they are stretching there abilities to just stay where they are at with the MLB position.

Yeah probowler sure is a low ceiling.

I don't know why anyone would say that size doesn't matter in the NFL. The two poster child MLB's are 250+. These guys are the poster children for a reason, they are playing there natural position for one and they are just badaz...

Not saying size doesn't matter--the point is Ryans is demonstrably not too small to play MLB.

Once again, one of your poster children (who didn't make the probowl this year) came out of college smaller than Ryans. Ray Lewis was 6' 235 lbs coming out of Miami.

Thurman is the same size and weight — 6-0, 235 — as Lewis when Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome drafted the Miami (Fla.) linebacker 26th overall in the 1996 draft.

Link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bengals/2005-12-14-rookie-thurman_x.htm)

real
02-07-2007, 03:08 PM
The only way I would consider moving Ryans would be if we got Patrick Willis. Replace a tackling machine with a tackling machine. But that doesn't help us with our weakest LB spot (Strongside). Willis would play MLB, Ryans would play WLB (chances would be that Greenwood would be let go) and still no SLB (unless we draft Everett in the 3rd,[but I don't see us drafting 2 LBs that high]).

I still wouldn't put Meco on the outside.

I'd move Willis to Strong side, Meco in the middle and Greenwood would be on the outside.

Meco stays in the middle no matter what.

V Man
02-07-2007, 03:09 PM
I don't know why anyone would say that size doesn't matter in the NFL. The two poster child MLB's are 250+. These guys are the poster children for a reason, they are playing there natural position for one and they are just badaz...

I don't think of them as the poster child MLB's, more like the exceptions. Everyone is goning to speed at this position, thus most are getting smaller and faster. Yes everyone would love to have a Lewis or Urlacher type at MLB, but everyone would also want a Manning or Bradey at QB. They are more the exception than the norm.

Meloy
02-07-2007, 03:42 PM
I just do not see need of a linebacker in top 4 picks. I think an CB will be selected with a free agent or a day one pick. Two good CBs will take cover pressure off LBs and Petey F. will add strength at nickle. If we go LB on day two, ok.

real
02-07-2007, 03:45 PM
I just do not see need of a linebacker in top 4 picks. I think an CB will be selected with a free agent or a day one pick. Two good CBs will take cover pressure off LBs and Petey F. will add strength at nickle. If we go LB on day two, ok.


Yeah....

We should draft all OL on day 1...

YoungTexanFan
02-07-2007, 03:49 PM
Well, since this thread had an original purpose...

Lawrence Timmons, Florida St.
Rufus Alexander, Oklahoma
Earl Everett, Florida
Jon Beason, Miami
Brandon Siler, Florida
Stewart Bradley, Nebraska
Tony Taylor, Georgia
Justin Durant, Hampton
Juwan Simpson, Alabama
Desmond Bishop, Cal
Prescott Burgess, Michigan
Dallas Sartz, USC
Tim Shaw, Penn St.


These are the guys I think we can draft after the first round that are worth getting.

MLB
02-07-2007, 03:53 PM
I don't think of them as the poster child MLB's, more like the exceptions. Everyone is goning to speed at this position, thus most are getting smaller and faster. Yes everyone would love to have a Lewis or Urlacher type at MLB, but everyone would also want a Manning or Bradey at QB. They are more the exception than the norm.

Well, I have to admit you may be right. I did a little research and I was surprised to find that of the 27 teams running the 4-3 defense, the average weight of the MLB position was 241.4#.

The smallest was S. Quarles from Tampa Bay at 225# and the largest was J. Trotter from the Eagles at 262#.

The number spread was:

12 players < 240#
8 players >= 240# but < 250#
7 players >= 250#

Hopfully Meco can put on a few more pounds though.

Meloy
02-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Yeah....

We should draft all OL on day 1...You never stop amazing me. I never mentioned the Oline in this post. Linebacker in 3rd was mentioned. I voiced my opinion. Your sarcasm drips but fails to impress. Truck on dude.

real
02-07-2007, 04:01 PM
You never stop amazing me. I never mentioned the Oline in this post. Linebacker in 3rd was mentioned. I voiced my opinion. Your sarcasm drips but fails to impress. Truck on dude.

Well the least you could do is tell where our picks would be better spent. You open yourself up to well warranted speculation when you make open statements.

threetoedpete
02-07-2007, 04:06 PM
Stephen Nicholas.

Of course, if we don't limit ourselves to OLB's only, we could make a run at Desmond Bishop (ILB) & shift DeMeco to the outside. I'd sure like to see DeMeco coming off the edge regularly.

As I've posted many, many times before, I think they need to sniff Meco at the will in '07. Therfore your Will linebacvker wish list is a little to rigid for my tastes. I'm looking for a guy who can handle the middle and the Will. Means the guy has to have some rocks in his pockets.

I'm with you on this one Toddie. Makes no sense playing Lawrence Taylor on the inside. The fact is, we don't know for sure if we have that yet or not. But I'd like to find out. That is for sure.

threetoedpete
02-07-2007, 04:16 PM
I still wouldn't put Meco on the outside.

I'd move Willis to Strong side, Meco in the middle and Greenwood would be on the outside.

Meco stays in the middle no matter what.

I got it ...you two. I would at least give him a try there this off season. What is the harm ? Give up ten sacks a season...that's pretty tunnel visioned by you guys. And why prey tell couldn't he make the calls for the defense ? An angle of two feet is going to make that much of a difference ? Because noone knows for sure makes your rigidness obtuse. You guys are just throwing away a weapon, out of hand, because it's extra ordinary ? I don't get it ? MLBs are a dime a dozen. A Will who can get there is worth his wieght in NFL gold. You guys wanna be block headed, fine by me.

real
02-07-2007, 04:17 PM
As I've posted many, many times before, I think they need to sniff Meco at the will in '07. Therfore your Will linebacvker wish list is a little to rigid for my tastes. I'm looking for a guy who can handle the middle and the Will. Means the guy has to have some rocks in his pockets.

I'm with you on this one Toddie. Makes no sense playing Lawrence Taylor on the inside. The fact is, we don't know for sure if we have that yet or not. But I'd like to find out. That is for sure.


:hairpull:

V Man
02-07-2007, 04:19 PM
I still wouldn't put Meco on the outside.

I'd move Willis to Strong side, Meco in the middle and Greenwood would be on the outside.

Meco stays in the middle no matter what.

Agree, as I said the only way I would consider, not would move.

TexansSeminole
02-07-2007, 04:42 PM
Well, since this thread had an original purpose...

Lawrence Timmons, Florida St.
Rufus Alexander, Oklahoma
Earl Everett, Florida
Jon Beason, Miami
Brandon Siler, Florida
Stewart Bradley, Nebraska
Tony Taylor, Georgia
Justin Durant, Hampton
Juwan Simpson, Alabama
Desmond Bishop, Cal
Prescott Burgess, Michigan
Dallas Sartz, USC
Tim Shaw, Penn St.


These are the guys I think we can draft after the first round that are worth getting.

The guys I have bolded are my favorite of these guys. The only one we seem to be in position to draft out of those three is Taylor, unless we went for Rufus in the 2nd assuming he was there. YTF, which of these guys would fit best for us at SLB.

Also, what position does Burgess project at. I remember him being good on the blitz, but I do not remember if he was SLB or WLB.

Buckle
02-07-2007, 04:51 PM
Beason is considered by most to be one of the top tier LB's this draft as is Timmons, so if either of them fell to us in the 2nd we better be running up to the podium to get him like we did with Meco last year. I would also be inclined to look at Siler, Simpson, Alexander, Taylor and Everett in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. As much as I would love to get Briggs I think it makes more sense in the salary cap situation to get another young stud LB through the draft than to get into a bidding war over a player like Briggs (which will happen if Chicago doesn't resign him). Does anyone know any potential 2008 free agents???

Navy_Chris
02-07-2007, 05:01 PM
Beason is considered by most to be one of the top tier LB's this draft as is Timmons, so if either of them fell to us in the 2nd we better be running up to the podium to get him like we did with Meco last year. I would also be inclined to look at Siler, Simpson, Alexander, Taylor and Everett in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. As much as I would love to get Briggs I think it makes more sense in the salary cap situation to get another young stud LB through the draft than to get into a bidding war over a player like Briggs (which will happen if Chicago doesn't resign him). Does anyone know any potential 2008 free agents???

1. Patrick Willis
2. Desmond Bishop
3. Brandon Siler

Those 3 are the best LBs available. Simpson's also a potential sleeper pick.

Navy_Chris
02-07-2007, 05:01 PM
1. Patrick Willis
2. Desmond Bishop
3. Brandon Siler

Those 3 are the best LBs available. Simpson's also a potential sleeper pick.

wait....nobody's talking about Pozluzny.

painekiller
02-07-2007, 05:18 PM
Ya I agree, that would be very risky if we moved him outside for no reason. He ajusted so if we do get someone who is an isl then we could move them outside and let them adjust. i would not like it at all if meco was moved. He will hopefully be the best mlb next year. And make the pro bowl, ,so i say leave him.

He was drafted to play OLB. If he plays outside he is best suited to play the WILL. But Greenwood really only plays the will also. So thats a problem. The idea is to get your 3 best LBs on the field together and last year that meant a SAM of Orr, MIKE of Ryans and WILL of Greenwood. This coming year that may change. Greenwood may get hurt and then the best 3 (from the current roster) maybe, Wong, Rainer, Ryans. If that is the case then you have to get the best 3 guys on the feild.( I am not saying this is the best group, I am giving a what if).

infantrycak
02-07-2007, 05:50 PM
MLBs are a dime a dozen.

Sure they are--that's why two of the three most famous LB's in the NFL are MLB's and the 3rd would be a 4-3 DE.

infantrycak
02-07-2007, 05:52 PM
He was drafted to play OLB.

That was just an assumption by many fans because of where he played in college. Quite a few of the scouts had him moving to the MLB spot at the NFL level such as NFL.com:

Overall, Ryans has ability to be a good starting linebacker, but he is best suited to play either middle linebacker or strongside linebacker because of his strength at the point of attack and competitiveness against blockers.

Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/ryans_demeco)

YoungTexanFan
02-07-2007, 08:01 PM
The guys I have bolded are my favorite of these guys. The only one we seem to be in position to draft out of those three is Taylor, unless we went for Rufus in the 2nd assuming he was there. YTF, which of these guys would fit best for us at SLB.

Also, what position does Burgess project at. I remember him being good on the blitz, but I do not remember if he was SLB or WLB.

Burgess should be a WILL in the NFL.

YoungTexanFan
02-07-2007, 08:05 PM
The guys I have bolded are my favorite of these guys. The only one we seem to be in position to draft out of those three is Taylor, unless we went for Rufus in the 2nd assuming he was there. YTF, which of these guys would fit best for us at SLB.

Also, what position does Burgess project at. I remember him being good on the blitz, but I do not remember if he was SLB or WLB.


I'm not a big fan of Taylor honestly.


Lawrence Timmons, Florida St. - 1st round talent
Rufus Alexander, Oklahoma - Rufus is a late first, early second. He may go to Chi to replace Briggs or Indy.
Earl Everett, Florida
Jon Beason, Miami Beason is the guy I would draft first out of this group.
Brandon Siler, Florida - a better talent than everett
Justin Durant, Hampton - a sleeper LB
Juwan Simpson, Alabama - sleeper LB
Desmond Bishop, Cal - my favorite day 2 SAM
Dallas Sartz, USC - WILL blitzing machine. just wreacks havoc
Tim Shaw, Penn St. - my second favorite LB on his team, ahead of Plouz

The guys I list here are the guys I would look at personally. They can be had at various times throughout the draft.

threetoedpete
02-07-2007, 08:09 PM
Sure they are--that's why two of the three most famous LB's in the NFL are MLB's and the 3rd would be a 4-3 DE.

You guys wanna be block headed, fine by me.



I liked that one better.

infantrycak
02-07-2007, 08:17 PM
I liked that one better.

Hey, you saw my fight with sly over at hpf last year--I may be block headed but on this one I am block headed right. Personally, Ryans exceeded my expectations at MLB and I wouldn't jack with success like defensive rookie of the year. The point is really moot, as Kubiak has declared Ryans the MLB for years to come. He ain't changing a leader like that who is also a great player out of the position.

keyfro
02-07-2007, 10:49 PM
i totally agree...ryans needs to stay in the middle...we need better outside backers...greenwood included...now strongside backer is more of a need right now since shantee orr is playing out of position...should be a OLB in a 3/4 scheme...wong should be out the door...leaving us with anderson...umh no....everett in the 3rd...alexander doesn't really fit but you can't argue with his hitting ability...bradley in the 3rd...how about buster davis playing outside...a little small for the inside position maybe he'll be a good SOLB in the pros...other than that i think you could wait til 5th or 6th round and get justin warren and try him at the outside spot

Vinny
02-07-2007, 11:01 PM
Teams are looking for 3-down middle linebackers who can play in any down an distance package...so, we have one in Ryans. Infantry is right, he won't be moved, he certainly isn't too small and he doesn't have to come out of the game like larger slower linebackers when teams go into a spread. In the middle he can make plays from side to side (instead of limiting his playmaking to one side of the field) and the team can move him around in long down and distance packages and use his blitzing skills on the outside from time to time.

gooneybird
02-07-2007, 11:29 PM
What is the proto-typical size?

Mike Singletary was 6-0, 230 lbs. Zach Thomas is 5-11, 228 lbs.

I think we should leave DeMeco where he is. Patrick Willis played Outside LB 2 years ago. Maybe we should draft him for the SAM.

Some pundits have written that we should get a veteran who can help teach DeMeco the pro game. Is Na'il Diggs a worth free agent signing. He is 6-4, 240 lbs.

bah007
02-07-2007, 11:48 PM
What is the proto-typical size?

Mike Singletary was 6-0, 230 lbs. Zach Thomas is 5-11, 228 lbs.

I think we should leave DeMeco where he is. Patrick Willis played Outside LB 2 years ago. Maybe we should draft him for the SAM.

Some pundits have written that we should get a veteran who can help teach DeMeco the pro game. Is Na'il Diggs a worth free agent signing. He is 6-4, 240 lbs.

Doesn't look like DeMeco needs any more veteran help than he already has. Kid is awesome.

If Diggs can play the SAM then I'm all for that. He was a pretty good player a few years ago.

Ole Miss Texan
02-07-2007, 11:50 PM
What is the proto-typical size?

Mike Singletary was 6-0, 230 lbs. Zach Thomas is 5-11, 228 lbs.

I think we should leave DeMeco where he is. Patrick Willis played Outside LB 2 years ago. Maybe we should draft him for the SAM.

Some pundits have written that we should get a veteran who can help teach DeMeco the pro game. Is Na'il Diggs a worth free agent signing. He is 6-4, 240 lbs.

Willis could be a good SAM. he can move sideline to sideline very well too though. We could go with a 5-2 sometimes with that combinations which would be sweet...but of course we're kinda stretching it with 4 up front anyways.

I think we would bring in a veteran so Demeco can help teach Him the pro game. lol

TexansSeminole
02-08-2007, 01:13 AM
Where are the top SLB prospects? This year it is a thin selection.

painekiller
02-08-2007, 04:30 AM
As I've posted many, many times before, I think they need to sniff Meco at the will in '07. Therfore your Will linebacvker wish list is a little to rigid for my tastes. I'm looking for a guy who can handle the middle and the Will. Means the guy has to have some rocks in his pockets.

I'm with you on this one Toddie. Makes no sense playing Lawrence Taylor on the inside. The fact is, we don't know for sure if we have that yet or not. But I'd like to find out. That is for sure.


The voice of reason. On this site? Are you mad. Ryans had 16 games at MLB and he has to stay there forever, noway he can be even better at the WILL.

Plus that would give us 3 true Will LBs on the team. Greenwood is Texan for at least one more year due to to much dead money to cut him. Ryans is a true Will ,and if you draft another one you have 3 of them. If they take Willis, (not likely) I try Willis at Sam, and at Mike. I experiment with Ryans at all three positions. You have to get your three best guys out on the field where they fit the best together.

real
02-08-2007, 08:44 AM
The voice of reason. On this site? Are you mad. Ryans had 16 games at MLB and he has to stay there forever, noway he can be even better at the WILL.

Plus that would give us 3 true Will LBs on the team. Greenwood is Texan for at least one more year due to to much dead money to cut him. Ryans is a true Will ,and if you draft another one you have 3 of them. If they take Willis, (not likely) I try Willis at Sam, and at Mike. I experiment with Ryans at all three positions. You have to get your three best guys out on the field where they fit the best together.


I don't even know how this came about, but I think that the idea of moving him at this point is border line insane. I thought about it earlier in the season, but as the season ended and I realized how good of a rookie season he had at the position I knew he wouldn't be moved. It doesn't make any sense at this point. The guy was a top three line backer all year as a rookie. Put up pro bowl numbers. If he keeps playing like that he'll be in the hall of fame. Why would you change a players position after coming off of a year like that? Why risk it? What if he has a bad or mediocre year at OLB ? If you think the media dogs us for passing on Reggie Bush, it'd be ten times worse if we made a move like that. It'd be like the Chargers saying we have to get our best players on the field so we're going to move L.T to the slot and start Michael Turner at half back, because it'd give us more talent on the field....Do you guys realize how ridiculous you sound ?

kastofsna
02-08-2007, 08:48 AM
well, i doubt the media would care if you guys moved demeco ryans to a different position.

edo783
02-08-2007, 09:41 AM
Let's see, we take our most productive defensive player and move him to another spot so we can bring in another player that we hope will do as well in the spot we moved him from and that he will do as well or better in the new position. Doesn't sound very logical to me.

real
02-08-2007, 09:44 AM
Where are the top SLB prospects? This year it is a thin selection.

I actually think both OLB postitions is pretty strong this year...

Hottoddie
02-08-2007, 12:56 PM
Do you guys realize how ridiculous you sound ?

What you call ridiculous, I call keeping an open mind. We're throwing out ideas on how to improve the team. You're assuming that DeMeco can't maintain the same level of play if he's moved back to his natural position, & the position that he was originally drafted for. I disagree with you.

I'm not saying he SHOULD be moved, just that it's an option I would look at if a solid MLB were available in the later rounds.

Hypothetically speaking, what if we traded down & Willis was the BPA? Would you pass on him because we already have a stud MLB? Would you force him to learn a position that he's not been groomed for in college? That'd give you 2 LB's playing out of their natural positions. While it would probably work, why wouldn't you just put them into their more natural positions & let them go wild?

All I'm saying is, just keep an open mind. It gives you more flexibility.

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2007, 03:00 PM
What you call ridiculous, I call keeping an open mind. We're throwing out ideas on how to improve the team. You're assuming that DeMeco can't maintain the same level of play if he's moved back to his natural position, & the position that he was originally drafted for. I disagree with you.

I'm not saying he SHOULD be moved, just that it's an option I would look at if a solid MLB were available in the later rounds.

Hypothetically speaking, what if we traded down & Willis was the BPA? Would you pass on him because we already have a stud MLB? Would you force him to learn a position that he's not been groomed for in college? That'd give you 2 LB's playing out of their natural positions. While it would probably work, why wouldn't you just put them into their more natural positions & let them go wild?



All I'm saying is, just keep an open mind. It gives you more flexibility.

I can see how everyone gets upset so easy about the suggestion of moving demeco.

I don't think using the argument that "he did amazing in the middle this year so we can't move him" is a very good one. As far as I know a 4-3 uses 3 linebackers. demeco is just one guy..one outstanding guy. we're going to keep him as long as we can and have him playing every single down. but what people need to realize is that we need to get the best 3 linebackers out there.

moving him outside would not be the end of the world. Like you were saying...let's just pretend...this is hypothetical so nobody come out a turn their face bright red yelling. If we trade down and draft patrick willis, and kubiak really likes him playing in the middle.then he moves demeco outside..and iguess we still have greenwood. kubiak would watch how they play in practice and preseason. if demeco isn't cutting outside...he then moves demeco back inside and puts p-willie outside. if this is a better fit for the TEAM...then he goes for it.

Its not the end of the world to move players to different positions to see how they fit. it may have messed mario up a little bit doing that in all the reg. season games at the beginning...but as a coach you have to try it.

Also Patrick Willis played olb untill the last year or 2. so he's accustomed to it. once he got moved inside he tore up the sec. i see both he and demeco being versatile enough to handle it.

I just hate the arguement that demeco did so well in the middle we can't move him.

lets look at this. again this is completely made up but yall get the point. lets say we draft Willis and he's outside....greenwood and ryans are last years #'s.

greenwood (109 tkls)----Ryans (155 tkls)----Willis(90???)

then what if we switched demeco and patrick and this happened to happen...

greenwood (109) -----Willis (135)-----Ryans (135)

demeco had 20 less tackles so by that means it was a bad idea...but patrick could of had 45 more tackles...so thats 25 more for our team...and thats what we have to look at not just oh it was a dumb move cuz demeco got less tkls.

no i know thats made up and i really have no idea what those numbers would look like....but that doesnt take into effect how that would help/hinder pressure on the qb, pass coverage, turnovers, as well as stamina/long term health for them in diff. positions.

now say we draft patrick willis or another MLB. and move demeco out

I think kubiak is going to do whatever is best for our team no matter what that means with players playing sitting, or switching positions. I really do not see demeco moving positions next season and think we will draft an olb in a later rd...and maybe get a fa or so.. I hope demeco has another stellar year and is a starter in the probowl for many hears. and D-MVP

bah007
02-08-2007, 03:09 PM
I can see how everyone gets upset so easy about the suggestion of moving demeco.

I don't think using the argument that "he did amazing in the middle this year so we can't move him" is a very good one. As far as I know a 4-3 uses 3 linebackers. demeco is just one guy..one outstanding guy. we're going to keep him as long as we can and have him playing every single down. but what people need to realize is that we need to get the best 3 linebackers out there.

moving him outside would not be the end of the world. Like you were saying...let's just pretend...this is hypothetical so nobody come out a turn their face bright red yelling. If we trade down and draft patrick willis, and kubiak really likes him playing in the middle.then he moves demeco outside..and iguess we still have greenwood. kubiak would watch how they play in practice and preseason. if demeco isn't cutting outside...he then moves demeco back inside and puts p-willie outside. if this is a better fit for the TEAM...then he goes for it.

Its not the end of the world to move players to different positions to see how they fit. it may have messed mario up a little bit doing that in all the reg. season games at the beginning...but as a coach you have to try it.

Also Patrick Willis played olb untill the last year or 2. so he's accustomed to it. once he got moved inside he tore up the sec. i see both he and demeco being versatile enough to handle it.

I just hate the arguement that demeco did so well in the middle we can't move him.

lets look at this. again this is completely made up but yall get the point. lets say we draft Willis and he's outside....greenwood and ryans are last years #'s.

greenwood (109 tkls)----Ryans (155 tkls)----Willis(90???)

then what if we switched demeco and patrick and this happened to happen...

greenwood (109) -----Willis (135)-----Ryans (135)

demeco had 20 less tackles so by that means it was a bad idea...but patrick could of had 45 more tackles...so thats 25 more for our team...and thats what we have to look at not just oh it was a dumb move cuz demeco got less tkls.

no i know thats made up and i really have no idea what those numbers would look like....but that doesnt take into effect how that would help/hinder pressure on the qb, pass coverage, turnovers, as well as stamina/long term health for them in diff. positions.

now say we draft patrick willis or another MLB. and move demeco out

I think kubiak is going to do whatever is best for our team no matter what that means with players playing sitting, or switching positions. I really do not see demeco moving positions next season and think we will draft an olb in a later rd...and maybe get a fa or so.. I hope demeco has another stellar year and is a starter in the probowl for many hears. and D-MVP

It's still not a good arguement.

If it's not broke, dont fix it. You can only make it worse.

I can handle Greenwood outside.

DeMeco is awesome in the middle. Would you put Ray Lewis or Urlacher on the outside just so they could get more sacks?

We need to either sign or draft in the 3rd a guy who can either battle Orr or take the job from him.

Kubiak and Smith haven't made a mistake in the draft yet so I'll go with whatever they choose.

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2007, 03:13 PM
It's still not a good arguement.

If it's not broke, dont fix it. You can only make it worse.

I can handle Greenwood outside.

DeMeco is awesome in the middle. Would you put Ray Lewis or Urlacher on the outside just so they could get more sacks?

We need to either sign or draft in the 3rd a guy who can either battle Orr or take the job from him.

Kubiak and Smith haven't made a mistake in the draft yet so I'll go with whatever they choose.

im really looking forward to what they do and will go with them whatever they decide. and to answer your question about ray lewis and urlacher....call me crazy but if it means....we have a better defense because they are playing outside and someone else is inside....and we win more games cuz of that then yes i would.

but lets not kid ourselves....we're nowhere near the calibre of the ravens or bears....so moving them really seems more unlikely....considering we have 3 legit starters on our defense in mario, demeco, and dunta...so its a lot more likely we do it than them.

i get your point though.

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2007, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE=bah007;592717]It's still not a good arguement.

If it's not broke, dont fix it. You can only make it worse.

QUOTE]

I know I didn't explain my arguement very well. but i think the general idea of moving him if it makes the team better..is a good arguement.

also...deuce mccalister wasnt broke but the drafted reggie bush...their rb wasnt broke but the sure helped it out a lot. (this is a bad arguement too.lol, i kinda disagreed w/ their pick...plus reggies a wr anywho...haha)

i get if its not broke dont fix it...but you can make it worse...that goes for anything...part of making anything better than it is ,..is making it better or reinforcing it before it breaks.

again though...our linebackers need help... we do need to fix it. demeco isn't broke. greenwood is fine by me...but we need someone else...we need a third...and i'll agree i'd rather draft an olb but we can't just look at it as black and white.

run-david-run
02-08-2007, 03:33 PM
The thing with moving DeMeco outside is that teams can then just run away from him. Teams are already avoiding running to the strongside because of Mario, putting Meco on that side as well would mean that teams would constantly run at Greenwood and Babin. Even if we know what the other team is doing, I would rather have my best player in a position to make a tackle then relying on Greenwood and Babin to stop a 3rd and 2.

PS- Willis has played OLB in college, Im sure such a transition would not be very hard for him. We should try to draft as many SEC defensive players of the year as possible.

real
02-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Would you put Ray Lewis or Urlacher outside because you want to put another MLB inside ? If anyones going to adjust, guys are going to adjust according to them....

This whole thing is like saying the Chargers should start LT at the slot so they can get Michael Turner on the field and have as much talent out ther as possible...

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2007, 03:51 PM
This whole thing is like saying the Chargers should start LT at the slot so they can get Michael Turner on the field and have as much talent out ther as possible...

would that make the best team they could come up with ? I don't think so. just because there is more talent out there doesn't mean the offense will do more.

infantrycak
02-08-2007, 04:03 PM
Don't know why people are wasting time discussing this so long as Kubiak is coach. He has stated on a couple occasions that Ryans is staying in the middle.

real
02-08-2007, 04:13 PM
just because there is more talent out there doesn't mean the defense will do more.

Fixed it.

real
02-08-2007, 04:15 PM
Don't know why people are wasting time discussing this so long as Kubiak is coach. He has stated on a couple occasions that Ryans is staying in the middle.

Yeah...he has...


Thank goodness.

Lucky
02-08-2007, 05:27 PM
Would you put Ray Lewis or Urlacher outside because you want to put another MLB inside ?
You know, Urlacher started out as a Sam with the Bears and struggled. He moved inside after 4-5 games, and has been lights out ever since.

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2007, 06:18 PM
Urlacher also used to play Safety in college. That dude just a badass.

Hottoddie
02-08-2007, 07:35 PM
It's still not a good arguement.

If it's not broke, dont fix it. You can only make it worse.

I can handle Greenwood outside.

DeMeco is awesome in the middle. Would you put Ray Lewis or Urlacher on the outside just so they could get more sacks?

We need to either sign or draft in the 3rd a guy who can either battle Orr or take the job from him.

Kubiak and Smith haven't made a mistake in the draft yet so I'll go with whatever they choose.

Actually, it's a reasonable argument. The defense is still broken & if moving a player or two around will fix it, then you do it.

The draft has a funny way of playing out. No matter what scenario you plan for, you still can't plan for the unknown. Like a GM that starts waffling back & forth on a couple of players, a player that gets into trouble with the law, or sustains an injury riding a motorcycle (sound familiar?).

If your pick comes up & you have players "A"(MLB), "B"(OLB), & "C"(CB) rated the highest on your board & "A" is far superior at his position than "B" or "C" at their respective positions, but player "A" plays the same position as your stud player (DeMeco), do you pass on him? Or, do you try to find a way to fit both players into your system, even if it means shifting an established player to another position?

While DeMeco had a great year & has everyone excited about his future, he hasn't been entrenched at the MLB spot yet. I'm not saying he has to move, but we need to at least keep an open mind to the possibility of it. If bringing in a rookie at MLB & sliding DeMeco over improves the overall defense, then it's a win-win situation.

infantrycak
02-08-2007, 07:46 PM
he hasn't been entrenched at the MLB spot yet.

Except in Kubiak's mind (because it is friggin obvious) so all this is academic, or anti-academic as the case may be.

beerlover
02-08-2007, 08:24 PM
Except in Kubiak's mind (because it is friggin obvious) so all this is academic, or anti-academic as the case may be.

preaching to the choir here :toast2:

keyfro
02-08-2007, 10:10 PM
this is almost funny...why would you want to move ryans in the first place...because of his size?...not every middle linebacker in the nfl is brian urlacher...not everyone is 6'4'' 260lbs and can run a 4.4 40...leave ryans be...he's earned that middle spot...let's focus on getting a SOLB...and worry about the positions of need...you know like DT, DE, CB, FS, LT, C, RB, QB, and WR

YoungTexanFan
02-08-2007, 11:52 PM
Well, glad to see 4 pages of off-topic nonsense.

Hottoddie
02-09-2007, 12:33 AM
Well, glad to see 4 pages of off-topic nonsense.

He he, and to think it all started with this simple little comment.:D

Stephen Nicholas.

Of course, if we don't limit ourselves to OLB's only, we could make a run at Desmond Bishop (ILB) & shift DeMeco to the outside. I'd sure like to see DeMeco coming off the edge regularly.

Ole Miss Texan
02-09-2007, 12:35 AM
this is almost funny...why would you want to move ryans in the first place...because of his size?...not every middle linebacker in the nfl is brian urlacher...not everyone is 6'4'' 260lbs and can run a 4.4 40...leave ryans be...he's earned that middle spot...let's focus on getting a SOLB...and worry about the positions of need...you know like DT, DE, CB, FS, LT, C, RB, QB, and WR

i think we ought to keep demeco in the middle as well...i'm just saying its not the only way we can go.

and here are our upgrades as follows...

Defense:

DE-1
DT-2? easily 1
LB-1 for sure
FS-yes
SS-maybe
CB-1

total= minimum 5

Offense:
LT-yes
C-Yes
RB-Yes
QB-Yes
WR2-yes

total =5

thats 10...lots of positions we can upgrade...so we have to do that as wisely as possible... would moving demeco outside to get another good mlb work...possible....would it be easier to just draft a good olb and keep demeco in the middle.. yes of course and thats what most of us think we should do.

the thing is our LB core isn't finished we still need somebody else...which is what this thread is about...I would rather see us find other positions in the first day...and maybe get a lb on the2nd day....

i'm hoping desomond bishop falls to 4...could be good with greenwood and demeco? i think so...there are prob. some others but he's my fave.

First day i really see us (depending on who falls at our 8spot) getting RB, CB, FS, OL probably 3 of those four.

painekiller
02-09-2007, 02:02 AM
I don't even know how this came about, but I think that the idea of moving him at this point is border line insane. I thought about it earlier in the season, but as the season ended and I realized how good of a rookie season he had at the position I knew he wouldn't be moved. It doesn't make any sense at this point. The guy was a top three line backer all year as a rookie. Put up pro bowl numbers. If he keeps playing like that he'll be in the hall of fame. Why would you change a players position after coming off of a year like that? Why risk it? What if he has a bad or mediocre year at OLB ? If you think the media dogs us for passing on Reggie Bush, it'd be ten times worse if we made a move like that. It'd be like the Chargers saying we have to get our best players on the field so we're going to move L.T to the slot and start Michael Turner at half back, because it'd give us more talent on the field....Do you guys realize how ridiculous you sound ?

Why because your team might be better with him at OLB, and another guy playing MLB. How, because that is his natural position and you might be able to draft the top MLB in this draft, a guy who might be as good as Singletary someday. If you could make your team better you do it, if it's not better, you change it back.

It is really simple, I still think the team should have played Pitts at LT when Spencer went down. Pitts was OK at LT, McKinney could have started at LG, Flanagan at OC, Weary at RG and Weigert at RT. It would have made the OL stronger at that point in time. But the team instead decided it was best to get Pitts more snaps at LG so he can develop where they want him, which is a better plan long term.

painekiller
02-09-2007, 02:14 AM
lets look at this. again this is completely made up but yall get the point. lets say we draft Willis and he's outside....greenwood and ryans are last years #'s.

greenwood (109 tkls)----Ryans (155 tkls)----Willis(90???)

then what if we switched demeco and patrick and this happened to happen...

greenwood (109) -----Willis (135)-----Ryans (135)

demeco had 20 less tackles so by that means it was a bad idea...but patrick could of had 45 more tackles...so thats 25 more for our team...and thats what we have to look at not just oh it was a dumb move cuz demeco got less tkls.

no i know thats made up and i really have no idea what those numbers would look like....but that doesnt take into effect how that would help/hinder pressure on the qb, pass coverage, turnovers, as well as stamina/long term health for them in diff. positions.



Remember you are defending my view that got spanked, so I agree with you. But your supporting logic is flawed. I am fine with both Willis and Ryans getting less tackles. Why? Because that means our defense is off the field more. If our team was a top 10 defense, they would have less plays against them. So remember more tackles can be a bad thing.

But like you said, if the teams trades down and Willis is the BPA, take him. Try him at SAM, WILL and MIKE. Try Ryans at WILL SAM and MIKE. See how they flow together and work as a team. Plus having guys like Ryans who can play multiple positions gives the DC plenty of options and help hide the defense being played.

Ole Miss Texan
02-09-2007, 10:16 AM
goog point in that hopefully our d would be on the field less. we're thinking similarly in this whole thing. having demeco practice outside during practice and a preseason game doesn't mean you have to keep him there the rest of his career. its just seeing all your different options.

all that i want to see is that our CB's have less tackles next season...and that our DL and LB have more. that will happen 2 differnet ways...getting more pressure on the qb, and have a better fs and cb2 that can deflect the pass/ intercept the ball ....i want them to make the play before the receiver gets the ball not after....but thats a whole new thread.

Hottoddie
02-09-2007, 12:48 PM
Remember you are defending my view that got spanked, so I agree with you. But your supporting logic is flawed. I am fine with both Willis and Ryans getting less tackles. Why? Because that means our defense is off the field more. If our team was a top 10 defense, they would have less plays against them. So remember more tackles can be a bad thing.

However, there is another train of thought. Since we're talking about more tackles for the LB's (not necessarily, overall tackles), as Ole Miss Texan alluded to, that means that less plays are making it into the secondary. Thus, less yards for the opposition.

Ole Miss Texan
02-10-2007, 01:00 AM
I've got the perfect guy for us to bring in and look at. He may be farely expensive but I doubt any other teams will be in the bidding.

This guy is a true athlete, very smart, and awesome tackler. He also went to Stanford....here's a video for y'all to look at.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tICYqiHRniw

beerlover
02-10-2007, 04:04 AM
I've got the perfect guy for us to bring in and look at. He may be farely expensive but I doubt any other teams will be in the bidding.

This guy is a true athlete, very smart, and awesome tackler. He also went to Stanford....here's a video for y'all to look at.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tICYqiHRniw

good closing speed, drove through bag carrier & finished the play :yes:

beerlover
02-10-2007, 04:05 AM
I've got the perfect guy for us to bring in and look at. He may be farely expensive but I doubt any other teams will be in the bidding.

This guy is a true athlete, very smart, and awesome tackler. He also went to Stanford....here's a video for y'all to look at.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tICYqiHRniw

check this out- http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/videos/RayLewis.wmv

beerlover
02-10-2007, 04:13 AM
seriously the Texans should be able to find players on the 2nd day that can fill a need @ OLB. I don't think Tiger is gonna give up that cush day job anytime soon :money:

bigbrewster2000
02-10-2007, 10:43 AM
Meco is not your proto-typical MLB in size. At 236# he is undersized for that position. A MLB has to fight very large offensive guards, perhaps a center occasionnaly and should be around 245-250# to hold his own. I think he would be awesome at OLB. Look at Ray Lewis (250#), Brian Urlacher (258#).

sometimes you have to look at the production on the field and throw away the physical stats. He had the 2nd most tackles and most solos this year. He was a 1 man wrecking crew in the middle of the field. Who cares if he is not prototypical, he gets the job done well. Don't mess with a good thing. If he puts up the same or similar #'s next season he will be a starter in the pro bowl not just an alternate. He apparently handles the centers and guards just fine without being 250. Look at production on the field.

threetoedpete
02-10-2007, 01:00 PM
The thing with moving DeMeco outside is that teams can then just run away from him. Teams are already avoiding running to the strongside because of Mario, putting Meco on that side as well would mean that teams would constantly run at Greenwood and Babin. Even if we know what the other team is doing, I would rather have my best player in a position to make a tackle then relying on Greenwood and Babin to stop a 3rd and 2.

PS- Willis has played OLB in college, Im sure such a transition would not be very hard for him. We should try to draft as many SEC defensive players of the year as possible.

Yes and that is the point we're tring to make. ...Ok the ZBS center is there at the 40 and so are the second teired DBs....but what is also out there is guys like Buster Davis, David Harris, and the Kid from Pitsburgh H.B Blade. All of them are prototipical MLBs. And if they can play at a high level, put Meco outside without loosing very much in moblity, why not ? That looks to me as a great value. They could do the same thing with the rush end. But the sacks need to go up. I don't KNOW that Demeeco is a Lawrence Taylor guy. All I'm tring to point out is that I'd like to have a player in the fold, since there are so many available prospects this year at the forty, to find out for sure. If Meeco gives us 8 to twelve sacks a year from the will...why not give it a try ? I'm wondering where our society would be if everyone took the attitude some of you are taking ? Man doesn't have wings ,the feet work fine threrefore...don't change anything. One thing we do know for sure at this point...we can not send five with our group of linebackers playing in their current positions and get there. Insane...please.

MorKnolle
02-10-2007, 02:39 PM
I'll throw in my :twocents: on LB rankings:

1st) Patrick Willis - he's an ideal fit at MLB but could play ILB in a 3-4 or OLB in a 4-3 as well. He's easily the most talented LB in this draft, I would consider taking him at #8 if a few other people are gone and we can't get a decent trade back deal.
2nd) Lawrence Timmons - he's a very good OLB for a 4-3, I wouldn't want to consider him at #8 but if we traded back to the 12 or lower range (not sure I see that happening) then he'd definitely be on my radar.
3rd) David Harris - he played MLB at Michigan but could play either that or SLB in a 4-3 (exactly the position we're needing), or could play ILB in a 3-4. He could be available at our 2nd round pick and depending on who else is available I'd definitely look at taking him there.
4th) Paul Posluszny - he is likely going to be taken somewhere in the late 1st round, likely by Philly or New Orleans. If he's around at our 2nd round pick I'd consider him, but there are a decent amount of guys that will likely be there that I'd prefer.
5th) Jon Beason - good player but not a particularly good fit for what we need, he'd be great in a cover 2 system and in more of a regular system he's best fitted for WLB.
6th) Earl Everett - probably a little better suited to play WLB as opposed to SLB but he could be solid at either. I don't think I like him enough to take him with our 2nd round pick but I doubt he lasts until our 3rd.
7th) Rufus Alexander - had a bit of an off year and it sounds like a decent amount of people are down on him right now. If that causes him to fall to the 3rd round I'd definitely take a hard look at him, although he is small and is also much better suited for WLB than SLB so he's not exactly the position we're needing.
8th) HB Blades - also played MLB in college but could be a decent fit at SLB, a decent bit better than Shantee Orr for sure. I'd maybe look for him with our 3rd round pick, but that entirely depends on who else is available.
9th) Brandon Siler - another MLB in college, probably best suited for MLB in the NFL, not sure how well he'd transition to SLB though.
10th) Buster Davis - don't like him for us.

Other later round guys:
Rory Johnson - very athletic OLB from Ole Miss. He's better suited for WLB than SLB but I'd be willing to look at him in the 5th round or later.
Desmond Bishop - solid OLB from Cal. I'd also be willing to look at him starting in the 5th round.
Tony Taylor - Pretty solid, could be a decent SLB but probably better suited for MLB or WLB. Would maybe look at in the 5th or later.
Prescott Burgess - I think he should gain some weight and convert to a DE, he's decent at pass rushing but not overly good at anything else. I would consider him in the 5th or later.
Stewart Bradley - pretty big guy that could be a decent option at SLB, would consider looking at him in the 5th or later.

YoungTexanFan
02-10-2007, 02:49 PM
Good to see someone else actually making an attempt to post on the topic.

YoungTexanFan
02-10-2007, 03:02 PM
I'll throw in my :twocents: on LB rankings:

1st) Patrick Willis - he's an ideal fit at MLB but could play ILB in a 3-4 or OLB in a 4-3 as well. He's easily the most talented LB in this draft, I would consider taking him at #8 if a few other people are gone and we can't get a decent trade back deal. I don't see him lasting till our 2nd rounder at all, and I can't really justify us taking him in the first, even after a trade back. He is gritty, but I feel that we can make better use of our picks with different players. Basicly, I'd rather look elsewhere.



2nd) Lawrence Timmons - he's a very good OLB for a 4-3, I wouldn't want to consider him at #8 but if we traded back to the 12 or lower range (not sure I see that happening) then he'd definitely be on my radar. This is the guy I want as an OLB for us next year. I don't think he will fall to the second, but he just might. If he does, it is easy. The guy is the best fit out of any LB for our team.



4th) Paul Posluszny - he is likely going to be taken somewhere in the late 1st round, likely by Philly or New Orleans. If he's around at our 2nd round pick I'd consider him, but there are a decent amount of guys that will likely be there that I'd prefer. This is a guy I'm excited to have in the draft. Not for us, but it just means that one of the better LB's will fall because of his name and hype. He will go 1st round, pushing an OLB down further to us.


5th) Jon Beason - good player but not a particularly good fit for what we need, he'd be great in a cover 2 system and in more of a regular system he's best fitted for WLB. A super athletic OLB. He is probally more of an ideal WLB, but I think he is capable of excelling at SLB as well.


7th) Rufus Alexander - had a bit of an off year and it sounds like a decent amount of people are down on him right now. If that causes him to fall to the 3rd round I'd definitely take a hard look at him, although he is small and is also much better suited for WLB than SLB so he's not exactly the position we're needing. Think of him as a compact wrecking ball. He has for some reason fallen out of favor in many circles, but he is talented. He screams MLB to me, but will probally end up as a WLB. I like the guy.


8th) HB Blades - also played MLB in college but could be a decent fit at SLB, a decent bit better than Shantee Orr for sure. I'd maybe look for him with our 3rd round pick, but that entirely depends on who else is available.
Can be a monster. Has good enough bulk to play at SAM, and should wind up there in the pros. I do not forsee him being a MLB or WLB.



Just what I think.

MorKnolle
02-10-2007, 03:12 PM
Just what I think.

I agree with the vast majority of that. I don't see any way Timmons falls to us in the 2nd, I think he's clearly the 2nd best LB in this draft, and is a nice fit for almost any type of system, and with some teams like Buffalo, St. Louis, and Carolina in the 12-14 range I'm a little hard-pressed to see him fall past those picks. As for Alexander, he didn't play as well at all for most of this year, other than the UT game he seemed to have some of that fire that he played with last year. Last year I saw him as a player that was very similar to Demeco, a little smaller and maybe slightly more athletic, but this year he was lacking something, just didn't seem into it for most of the year, which is why a lot of teams aren't as fond of him now. After only weighing in at 227 lbs. at the Senior Bowl he either needs to gain 10+ lbs. and work out well at Combine or else he'll be locked in as a WLB in the draft.

bah007
02-10-2007, 03:26 PM
I'll throw in my :twocents: on LB rankings:

1st) Patrick Willis - he's an ideal fit at MLB but could play ILB in a 3-4 or OLB in a 4-3 as well. He's easily the most talented LB in this draft, I would consider taking him at #8 if a few other people are gone and we can't get a decent trade back deal.
2nd) Lawrence Timmons - he's a very good OLB for a 4-3, I wouldn't want to consider him at #8 but if we traded back to the 12 or lower range (not sure I see that happening) then he'd definitely be on my radar.
3rd) David Harris - he played MLB at Michigan but could play either that or SLB in a 4-3 (exactly the position we're needing), or could play ILB in a 3-4. He could be available at our 2nd round pick and depending on who else is available I'd definitely look at taking him there.
4th) Paul Posluszny - he is likely going to be taken somewhere in the late 1st round, likely by Philly or New Orleans. If he's around at our 2nd round pick I'd consider him, but there are a decent amount of guys that will likely be there that I'd prefer.
5th) Jon Beason - good player but not a particularly good fit for what we need, he'd be great in a cover 2 system and in more of a regular system he's best fitted for WLB.
6th) Earl Everett - probably a little better suited to play WLB as opposed to SLB but he could be solid at either. I don't think I like him enough to take him with our 2nd round pick but I doubt he lasts until our 3rd.
7th) Rufus Alexander - had a bit of an off year and it sounds like a decent amount of people are down on him right now. If that causes him to fall to the 3rd round I'd definitely take a hard look at him, although he is small and is also much better suited for WLB than SLB so he's not exactly the position we're needing.
8th) HB Blades - also played MLB in college but could be a decent fit at SLB, a decent bit better than Shantee Orr for sure. I'd maybe look for him with our 3rd round pick, but that entirely depends on who else is available.
9th) Brandon Siler - another MLB in college, probably best suited for MLB in the NFL, not sure how well he'd transition to SLB though.
10th) Buster Davis - don't like him for us.

Other later round guys:
Rory Johnson - very athletic OLB from Ole Miss. He's better suited for WLB than SLB but I'd be willing to look at him in the 5th round or later.
Desmond Bishop - solid OLB from Cal. I'd also be willing to look at him starting in the 5th round.
Tony Taylor - Pretty solid, could be a decent SLB but probably better suited for MLB or WLB. Would maybe look at in the 5th or later.
Prescott Burgess - I think he should gain some weight and convert to a DE, he's decent at pass rushing but not overly good at anything else. I would consider him in the 5th or later.
Stewart Bradley - pretty big guy that could be a decent option at SLB, would consider looking at him in the 5th or later.

Where's Juwan Simpson from Alabama?

He was a two-year starter & while he was never a playmaker he was always very solid.

There doesn't seem to be a vast amount of upside but he rarely makes mistakes & is stout against the run.

MorKnolle
02-10-2007, 03:39 PM
Where's Juwan Simpson from Alabama?

He was a two-year starter & while he was never a playmaker he was always very solid.

There doesn't seem to be a vast amount of upside but he rarely makes mistakes & is stout against the run.

Simpson is decent, although I don't particularly like how he fits our team. He weighed in at the Senior Bowl at 223 lbs. so he's very undersized, he's pretty athletic but nothing overly special, and he's a pretty solid player. I personally see him going to a cover 2 team like the Colts, Buc, Vikings, etc. in the 4th round or lower, but I'm not a big fan of us taking him, especially with his spotty character history.

beerlover
02-10-2007, 05:06 PM
it would be a mistake to use a 1st day pick on a OLB given the overall needs of the Texans & the fact Greenwood/Orr/Wong/Evans/Ryans are adequate & will only get better playing together as a unit.

I'd prefer using a 2nd day pick on a OLB- Rory Johnson, Desmond Bishop, Prescott Burgess or Stewart Bradley :twocents: