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Tailgate
02-06-2007, 03:50 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4530596.html

“David has been inconsistent, and we‘ve said that” McNair said at a Texas Bowl luncheon at the JW Marriott. “He’s had some good games and he’s had some games that haven’t been as good. He’s a tremendous athlete. We’ve got to get better consistency there, either with David or with some additional help. We need more consistency at quarterback.”

“We’ve been willing to do whatever we need to do to win. Really that hasn’t changed,” McNair said. “We let a number of veterans go last year and this season and we took a hit on the cap. It was in the best interest of our team. We’re going to do whatever we need to do to improve our team and win. That’s what we’re all about.”



Pretty much what we all expected.... just coming from the head honcho himself. Its going to be an interesting offseason. But no matter what.. you have to know all McNair wants to do is win.

MightyTExan
02-06-2007, 03:53 PM
Finally! Some real news!
Let the speculation begin!

"McNair has been one of Carr’s biggest supporters since the team drafted him with the No. 1 overall pick during their expansion season in 2002. But after five straight losing seasons that support appears to be waning. McNair has not publicly endorsed Carr in recent months and has declined to speculate on the quarterback’s future with the team for the 2007 season."

Music to my ears!

Sportsfan
02-06-2007, 04:00 PM
He's gonna be gone i bet.

Mr. White
02-06-2007, 04:03 PM
I'm glad to finally hear it. Seems like McNair's had an attachment to Carr that isn't exactly healthy.

Time to cut the cord.

nunusguy
02-06-2007, 04:03 PM
"He targeted wide receiver, running back, defensive tackle, linebacker and safety as areas the Texans would like to bolster."
*****************************************
What about DE ? Kubiak has said we still don't have a real pass rushing threat. You 2 need to get on the same page there BM.
And why WR ? You brought in 2 WR FAs last year who are your 2 & 3 guys after AJ. Gotta start making smarter personnel pickups, as the team just repeats the same mistake.
Hopefully RS can pull this team and its player evaluation selection process together.

real
02-06-2007, 04:05 PM
:doot:

TEXANS84
02-06-2007, 04:06 PM
McNair said the Texans would consider taking a salary cap hit by releasing a player, including Carr, if a suitable replacement can be found in free agency. Jake Plummer is believed to be a target of the Texans if he is released by the Denver Broncos.

I have a feeling that "the snake" will be starting qb in 07.

Mr. White
02-06-2007, 04:20 PM
Good article. I like this quote as well.

McNair added the Texans will be cautious in spending freely during the free-agent period after a few bad deals in the past.

Were not going to go out and get a player and pay more than hes worth, he said. We have to get fair value for what we spend. We have to allocate these dollars very prudently.


Finally admitting that mistakes have been made is the first step toward correcting them.

texans83
02-06-2007, 04:22 PM
Good article. I like this quote as well.



Finally admitting that mistakes have been made is the first step toward correcting them.

This is very true

El Tejano
02-06-2007, 04:30 PM
To me this says they are going to do what they can to get something for David but the price has to be right.

If they don't get what they want, they are prepared to stay with David and wade it out by providing better talent around him.

Double Barrel
02-06-2007, 04:30 PM
I have a feeling that "the snake" will be starting qb in 07.

Big mistake if Carr is his backup, IMO. Too much money at one position for mediocre QBs, at best.

I honestly won't be surprised if DC is in traning camp.

El Tejano
02-06-2007, 04:31 PM
Good article. I like this quote as well.



Finally admitting that mistakes have been made is the first step toward correcting them.

I think he is admitting it but he is also saying people were here spending stupidly but now Rick Smith has opened his eyes to a better way.

MightyTExan
02-06-2007, 04:34 PM
I think he is admitting it but he is also saying people were here spending stupidly but now Rick Smith has opened his eyes to a better way.


Especially with the cap specialist on board. I wonder if Carr will ask to be let go? :stirpot:

New_Texans
02-06-2007, 04:40 PM
how is plummer an upgrade?

Keep Carr, draft a QB, and if Carr fails send in Rosenfels and drop Carr.

real
02-06-2007, 04:43 PM
Maybe it's just me, but IMO, Plummer is a definite upgrade over Carr.

Honoring Earl 34
02-06-2007, 04:43 PM
I would say Kubiak has coached both so if he says Plummer is an upgrade ... then I've got to think he's an upgrade .

Mr. White
02-06-2007, 04:45 PM
how is plummer an upgrade?


Lets look at some combinations and permutations...

Plummer + Kubiak = Good
Plummer - Kubiak = Not good

Carr - Kubiak = Not good
Carr + Kubiak = Not good

All other things being equal, Plummer playing under Kubiak is a better option than Carr playing under Kubiak.

TEXANS84
02-06-2007, 04:47 PM
how is plummer an upgrade?



Plummer this season was 7-3 when he was benched.

Carr is 8-32 in the past two seasons.

Texasian
02-06-2007, 04:52 PM
I love to do the 'LIMBO", especially now! Yeah!

texans83
02-06-2007, 04:52 PM
Plummer this season was 7-3 when he was benched.

Carr is 8-32 in the past two seasons.


haha true, Im just hoping that plummer can still move well in the pocket...He is getting kinda old

Texasian
02-06-2007, 04:53 PM
Where's the quote from McNair saying,"We admit, Vince...." JK, I'll stop here! ;)

TexanAddict
02-06-2007, 04:55 PM
I wouldn't blink if they bring Plummer in if Kubiak believes him to be an upgrade over Carr. However, what happens if Denver doesn't want to just release him? I wouldn't want to give up any picks to get him. And another possibility, what if when he is released he doesn't want to come here? I know Kubiak is here, but what if Chicago wants to bring him in to compete with Rex? They have more cap room and are in a better position to make it to the big dance again next year. I'm not advocating for Carr, just pointing out that Plummer coming here is not a guarantee. Just some things to think about.

TexanAddict
02-06-2007, 04:57 PM
Quoted: McNair added the Texans will be cautious in spending freely during the free-agent period after a few bad deals in the past.

Were not going to go out and get a player and pay more than hes worth, he said. We have to get fair value for what we spend. We have to allocate these dollars very prudently.

This is probably the best thing I've heard so far.

shinerbock_girl
02-06-2007, 05:14 PM
He's gonna be gone i bet.

If he is, there sure isn't anyone in the Draft they'd want, so would have to be a Vetern...Still say Plummer ends up here....Who else is left that would possibly want to come here???

Navy_Chris
02-06-2007, 05:27 PM
If he is, there sure isn't anyone in the Draft they'd want, so would have to be a Vetern...Still say Plummer ends up here....Who else is left that would possibly want to come here???

What about a trade for Aaron Rodgers? I don't see a problem in swapping Carr for Rodgers. Our O-Line is coming together right now, so going and making a deal for a guy like Rodgers, with Sage already here, makes sense to me. No need to take a cap hit by cutting David Carr if we can get something in return for him. In that scenario, no cap hit!!!! Why take a cap hit if we don't need to?

houstonhurricane
02-06-2007, 05:27 PM
I would say Kubiak has coached both so if he says Plummer is an upgrade ... then I've got to think he's an upgrade .

Kubiak is also responsible for reviewing Carr and choosing to stick with him as the franchise quarterback...

HomeBred_Texan
02-06-2007, 05:27 PM
Plummer this season was 7-3 when he was benched.

Carr is 8-32 in the past two seasons.

I guess I am getting old. The last time I looked, each season was for 16 games. Take that and multiply it times 2, and I get 32. But that is old school math. Don't know allot about the new math these days. Last year we won 2 games in reg season and this year we won 6, so there is your 8 OUT of 32 which leaves what?...

hollywood_texan
02-06-2007, 05:29 PM
Maybe it's just me, but IMO, Plummer is a definite upgrade over Carr.

Depends on the price, including the dead cap money with cutting Carr. I think Plummer is a better QB than Carr, but it may not make sense when you run the numbers, especially from a cap perspective. It's not like Plummer is going to come in and sign for the league minimum.

The key next season is getting to 10 wins for a big springboard for the 2008 season. I just don't see how Plummer fits in the long range plans for the Texans and he isn't required to get to 10 wins.

Having said that...

IMO, Carr will be around next year.

The big change now is that Carr is officially on the hot seat and will be held directly responsible for the offense from game 1 starting next season. He is not guaranteed the starting job and will benched if his performance is not up to expectations. That's how I read this.

IT'S NOW OFFICIAL...

CARR, YOU BETTER BRING THE GOODS!!!!

GOOD LUCK BRO!!!!!

TEXANS84
02-06-2007, 05:30 PM
I guess I am getting old. The last time I looked, each season was for 16 games. Take that and multiply it times 2, and I get 32. But that is old school math. Don't know allot about the new math these days. Last year we won 2 games in reg season and this year we won 6, so there is your 8 OUT of 32 which leaves what?...

Good math, still working on a hangover. The OUT part was left off.

Silver Oak
02-06-2007, 05:37 PM
I knew this newsbit would be greeted like a free buffet to a meeting of Overeaters Anonymous.

HomeBred_Texan
02-06-2007, 05:38 PM
What about a trade for Aaron Rodgers? I don't see a problem in swapping Carr for Rodgers. Our O-Line is coming together right now, so going and making a deal for a guy like Rodgers, with Sage already here, makes sense to me. No need to take a cap hit by cutting David Carr if we can get something in return for him. In that scenario, no cap hit!!!! Why take a cap hit if we don't need to?

Why in the world would Green Bay want to get rid of Rodgers? He is there future and they are gonna stick with the old man until he gets hurt and can't walk it seems. Just because Farve is coming back for yet another season doesn't mean they want Rodgers gone...

shinerbock_girl
02-06-2007, 05:41 PM
What about a trade for Aaron Rodgers? I don't see a problem in swapping Carr for Rodgers. Our O-Line is coming together right now, so going and making a deal for a guy like Rodgers, with Sage already here, makes sense to me. No need to take a cap hit by cutting David Carr if we can get something in return for him. In that scenario, no cap hit!!!! Why take a cap hit if we don't need to?

Well the brief moments Aaron was playing, which was very little, i still wasn't impressed...The brief moments Sage played, i was impressed...Right now we need Veteren experience, not another Rookie who has not proven himself...If anything, Why not give Sage a chance first??? Why is everyone discrediting Sage?? He played well as a back up and we haven't even seen his full potential yet because he wasn't given that chance for a full game...

real
02-06-2007, 05:42 PM
The big change now is that Carr is officially on the hot seat and will be held directly responsible for the offense from game 1 starting next season. He is not guaranteed the starting job and will benched if his performance
is not up to expectations. That's how I read this.

If the Texans go into next season with that mind set, they should be embarrassed and ashamed.

That would mark the 6th year we went into the season with a question about the QB. It would be the 6th season that Carr has gotten to start, based on good faith and good vibes. The guy, IMO, played borderline awful this past season, and just about every season before that.

If I'm the Texans, as of right now, Carr is not my starter. I honestly believe the best move for Carr and the Texans is to part ways. It's time to start over and build the team how it should have been built in the first place.

hollywood_texan
02-06-2007, 05:43 PM
Good math, still working on a hangover. The OUT part was left off.

I don't think your math was wrong, you just typed it out wrong.

I think you meant to say Carr, is 8 wins of 32 games in the last two seasons.

Honoring Earl 34
02-06-2007, 05:44 PM
I think if they trade Carr ... we should measure twice and cut once about who we get to play QB .

hollywood_texan
02-06-2007, 05:47 PM
If the Texans go into next season with that mind set, they should be embarrassed and ashamed.

That would mark the 6th year we went into the season with a question about the QB. It would be the 6th season that Carr has gotten to start, based on good faith and good vibes. The guy, IMO, played borderline awful this past season, and just about every season before that.

If I'm the Texans, as of right now, Carr is not my starter. I honestly believe the best move for Carr and the Texans is to part ways. It's time to start over and build the team how it should have been built in the first place.

Totally hear ya, and agree with your analysis and conclusion.

However, you have to temper that with managing the salary cap next year and the years to come.

I say do it, but don't do it in way that could cause salary cap issues in the future. Having said that, keeping Carr for one more year and grooming a cheaper guy may be the better road than spending for Plummer or some other cast off QB.

281
02-06-2007, 05:48 PM
hearing mcnair say anything other than "david will be our qb for next season" is music to my ears.

old football fan
02-06-2007, 05:58 PM
I would say Kubiak has coached both so if he says Plummer is an upgrade ... then I've got to think he's an upgrade .

When and where did Kubiak say this? Back it up please.

Clash_Fan3605
02-06-2007, 05:59 PM
IDK if anyone's posted this, but if Plummer comes over here it doesn't exactly mean he'll be our QB of the future. Have him come in for 2-3 years and draft or sign a younger QB later. Plummer can help "groom" the QB when he comes off the bench.

dgar3752
02-06-2007, 06:04 PM
Even if Plummer isnt an upgrade...we'd get the same production out of him at a cheaper price. This way we have some cash to improve other areas

Blu
02-06-2007, 06:06 PM
atleast we know Plummer doesn't have the Freeny twitch.
:stirpot:

Mr. White
02-06-2007, 06:08 PM
When and where did Kubiak say this? Back it up please.

He never said that Kubiak said it. He said if Kubiak says it.....

old football fan
02-06-2007, 06:10 PM
Well the brief moments Aaron was playing, which was very little, i still wasn't impressed...The brief moments Sage played, i was impressed...Right now we need Veteren experience, not another Rookie who has not proven himself...If anything, Why not give Sage a chance first??? Why is everyone discrediting Sage?? He played well as a back up and we haven't even seen his full potential yet because he wasn't given that chance for a full game...

He's been given a chance for the past 6 yrs and 3 teams and is still just a good backup.

Double Barrel
02-06-2007, 06:12 PM
I would say Kubiak has coached both so if he says Plummer is an upgrade ... then I've got to think he's an upgrade .

I was going to reply that your statement is hard to argue against, but then houstonhurricane made a good point:

Kubiak is also responsible for reviewing Carr and choosing to stick with him as the franchise quarterback...

Personally, I see a lot of the same type of QB in both Plummer and Carr. Perhaps JP is more consistent, so he might get the nod. But it's still not enough to justify the salary that will be spent on one position.

Super Dave still managed a game and made a couple of plays to help us beat the Colts with a solid running game. This is what we can expect, and could build a team to meet those purposes. DC may not win games on his own, but we just need him not to lose them for us. Most teams do not have superstar QBs, and many win in spite of it.

I'm not a Carr 'lover' or 'hater', so I don't think we should move him "just because". Why bring in another QB that is basically a clone of what we've already got? Change for change's sake is not always conducive towards success.

Well the brief moments Aaron was playing, which was very little, i still wasn't impressed...The brief moments Sage played, i was impressed...Right now we need Veteren experience, not another Rookie who has not proven himself...If anything, Why not give Sage a chance first??? Why is everyone discrediting Sage?? He played well as a back up and we haven't even seen his full potential yet because he wasn't given that chance for a full game...

I've thought the same thing about Rosenfels, but the backup QB is always the most popular player on a team. For whatever reason(s), he has yet to earn a starting job wherever he goes. He might be a good career backup, but not so great when opposing defenses gameplan around him.

shinerbock_girl
02-06-2007, 06:14 PM
Even if Plummer isnt an upgrade...we'd get the same production out of him at a cheaper price. This way we have some cash to improve other areas

I'm not high on Plummer, but at least he is a Vetern...And might be the ONLY one available....Like i said before, who else is going to give up their good QB's...It is what it is, And the Texans better look at fixing up their lines because i bet our QB situation isn't going to change much...

old football fan
02-06-2007, 06:17 PM
He never said that Kubiak said it. He said if Kubiak says it.....

He used "IF" in the way that contends that Kubiak did indeed say this. Just reread the statement he made. Not really doubting what he said just don't remember Kubiak ever saying this or implying this. If I'm wrong it won't be the first time. Just ask my wife.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2007, 06:20 PM
I would be a happy man if everyone go a fresh start. It is the only way to move forward.

It is like going back to that ex-girlfriend you have..she has a great body(arm) and gets along with your friend and family(potential) yet she always seems to psycho out and confuse you(NE and Oakland game).

The best bet is to walk away.

shinerbock_girl
02-06-2007, 06:24 PM
I've thought the same thing about Rosenfels, but the backup QB is always the most popular player on a team. For whatever reason(s), he has yet to earn a starting job wherever he goes. He might be a good career backup, but not so great when opposing defenses gameplan around him.

Well Sage is only a last resort QB right now. But, If our QB situation doesn't change, Carr stays, and if he folds, then Kubs may give Sage a chance...He hasn't played even close to a full game, Unless you count pre season, so its hard to see what he can really do in all levels....That is if they DON'T go after Plummer. I just don't see a big change happening in the QB area. Not too many options out there...I hope i'm wrong....

old football fan
02-06-2007, 06:29 PM
Is there anyway we can clone Manning? That would surely solve our QB problem.

tsip
02-06-2007, 06:30 PM
Take a good look at the pic of Carr being sack, as this is the 'defensive position other posters have mentioned, also called the 'cowl down' or 'fetal position.' Carr is not going to get injured in this position...

Remember the TD Manning threw to a wide open receiver? He was hit and knocked to the ground as he threw the ball, but hung in to the last second to hit that WR. Carr wasn't looking for 'anyone,' he wanted to hit the ground and protect himself.

I'll leave it at that, except to say it's a shame Fran Tarkenton doesn't have a school on pocket control/management/scrambling...

shinerbock_girl
02-06-2007, 06:34 PM
He used "IF" in the way that contends that Kubiak did indeed say this. Just reread the statement he made. Not really doubting what he said just don't remember Kubiak ever saying this or implying this. If I'm wrong it won't be the first time. Just ask my wife.

I think he meant it more in a Hypothetical way... Meaning "if" Kubiak would have said Plummer was an upgrade he would basically agree with him. At least thats how i read into it, and also knowing how Earl post, i know he did not mean it was an actual quote from Kubiak.

K.D.
02-06-2007, 06:35 PM
I know everyone thinks that Plummer would be the QB brought in, but this could be a blessing in disguise to get Damond Houard(sp?) from KC. This guy has alot of football left in him and actually would be cheaper than Plummer. I like Carr and everything, but i just don't want us to cut the guy and get noyhing in return. We can possibly get something for him and watch, if he is just released someone is going to pick him up with the quickness. Only thing about it is they are going to call our "bluff" to see if we actually going to release him.

hollywood_texan
02-06-2007, 06:39 PM
What if they restructure Carr's contract?

How much less should Carr be paid to keep his job?

dirty steve
02-06-2007, 06:56 PM
I know everyone thinks that Plummer would be the QB brought in, but this could be a blessing in disguise to get Damond Houard(sp?) from KC. This guy has alot of football left in him and actually would be cheaper than Plummer. I like Carr and everything, but i just don't want us to cut the guy and get noyhing in return. We can possibly get something for him and watch, if he is just released someone is going to pick him up with the quickness. Only thing about it is they are going to call our "bluff" to see if we actually going to release him.
not sure huard would fit in the system. i think he is your classic drop back type while Kubiak/Denver system calls for a guy that can do the rollout/play action type stuff.

HomeBred_Texan
02-06-2007, 06:58 PM
What if they restructure Carr's contract?

How much less should Carr be paid to keep his job?

Good question that only David Carr and his agent can answer...

But with the heat from fans, I don't think he would take much of a cut if any...

The Pencil Neck
02-06-2007, 07:00 PM
Even if Plummer isnt an upgrade...we'd get the same production out of him at a cheaper price. This way we have some cash to improve other areas

If we let Carr go (either by cutting him or trading him), we take a HUGE cap hit. So... no... we won't have more money to spend on other positions. We'll actually have less unless our FO can think of some creative way to deal with it.

Even if we re-sign him and restructure his contract to less money (which he has to accept), I think we're still going to have some serious issues with his old contract.

shinerbock_girl
02-06-2007, 07:00 PM
Good question that only David Carr and his agent can answer...

But with the heat from fans, I don't think he would take much of a cut if any...

I'm as worried as anyone about our QB situation, but if they decide to keep Carr, i will stand behind him....He's a Texans and i won't turn my back on him or my team.

K.D.
02-06-2007, 07:01 PM
not sure huard would fit in the system. i think he is your classic drop back type while Kubiak/Denver system calls for a guy that can do the rollout/play action type stuff.

I watched him play afew games and he did the PA/RO's that you mention. Another thing is that i think alot of people put too much emphasis on the roll-out pass. Yeah this is part of our plans, but it's not like every pass is going to be a roll-out, our bread-n-butter is play-action and huard sells it real good.

QB75
02-06-2007, 07:07 PM
What if they restructure Carr's contract?

How much less should Carr be paid to keep his job?

Why in the world would David Carr agree to restructure his contract?:logo:

Texian
02-06-2007, 07:09 PM
Good example of a headline overstating the article.

If the Broncos can't see Plummer holding the Lombardi trophy, why would the Texans.

Plummer has a 7+ million salary.

What could be a Kubiak major mistake, thinking he can resurrect and coach up Plummer with current Texans players.

Many here read like they have shot themselves in the foot and in race to start next season they are trying to shoot themselves in the other foot.

SESupergenius
02-06-2007, 07:15 PM
I'd like to see consistancy ANYHERE on this team. In 5 years we have not seen a single positional unit be the same 2 years in a row.

Plummer is without a doubt an upgrade to Carr, but at what price? We bring in Plummer and say goodbye to other high profile Free Agents.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2007, 07:21 PM
If we let Carr go (either by cutting him or trading him), we take a HUGE cap hit. So... no... we won't have more money to spend on other positions. We'll actually have less unless our FO can think of some creative way to deal with it.

Even if we re-sign him and restructure his contract to less money (which he has to accept), I think we're still going to have some serious issues with his old contract.

It really isn't that large of a hit. It is the pro-rated portion of his bonus..I think it comes out plus or minus in the 5 mil range. I'd take that to start again.

QB75
02-06-2007, 07:23 PM
It really isn't that large of a hit. It is the pro-rated portion of his bonus..I think it comes out plus or minus in the 5 mil range. I'd take that to start again.

Then you should call McNair!:logo:

Kaiser Toro
02-06-2007, 07:26 PM
Unfortunately Mr. McNair's take is one year to late. Good to see we have an owner and front office maturing before our very eyes.

aj.
02-06-2007, 07:30 PM
McNair buying into Casserly's egomaniacal bunk set this franchise back 5 years, but I get the sense that we've stopped digging.

HoustonFrog
02-06-2007, 07:36 PM
Then you should call McNair!:logo:

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. I just responded to what the poster wrote. That isn't HUGE by NFL standards.

tsip
02-06-2007, 07:51 PM
not sure huard would fit in the system. i think he is your classic drop back type while Kubiak/Denver system calls for a guy that can do the rollout/play action type stuff.

First, Carr was a drop back passer in college, eventhough he still can't 'work' the pocket. And, Carr has shown no consistency in running a Kubiak/Denver type system.

Carr ended the '06 season with the forward pass not a part of his game plan, only required not to make mistakes and lose games-- $7 million!

Huard has a good track record, including playing for the Patriots and Dolphins. His career stats are decent (more tds than int) and he had really good #'s in '06 when he started 8 games. He completed about 61% of his passes for 1878yds/11 tds/1 int/7.7 ypa/28 throws over 20yds (same as Carr's 16 games total) and a QB rating of 98.

All things considered-especially successful results/experience/reasonable salary-Huard has a lot of upside...

CowboysTexansFan
02-06-2007, 07:57 PM
Wow, talk about an almost total lack of support by the owner. McNair is basically saying that if the team can find an upgrade at QB in free agency, Carr is toast. Carr's family and friends who post here are going to have an extremely hard time playing down McNair's statements--at least if their arguments are based on facts and logic.

BattleRedToro
02-06-2007, 08:04 PM
I'd like to see consistancy ANYHERE on this team. In 5 years we have not seen a single positional unit be the same 2 years in a row.

Kris Brown has been the PK for all 5 years so that is 1 position that has been consistent. :secret:

I think all McNair was trying to do today was dispel the notion that he is or has ever been a meddling owner that makes demands on his coaching staffs and that is it. McNair made these statements today so that in the event that David Carr is the starting QB next year it should be, but I'll bet it still won't be, abundantly clear that his GM and the coaches think that David Carr is the best that they can do at QB at that time.

Hulk75
02-06-2007, 08:07 PM
Who said Jake himself wants to be here.:spy:

Mr. White
02-06-2007, 08:09 PM
This thread is bordering on surreal now.

Scooter
02-06-2007, 08:10 PM
Who said Jake himself wants to be here.:spy:

i really dont feel like digging for the quotes, but plummer said earlier in the season that he really wants to play for kubiak.

dbspi
02-06-2007, 08:16 PM
I know everyone thinks that Plummer would be the QB brought in, but this could be a blessing in disguise to get Damond Houard(sp?) from KC. This guy has alot of football left in him and actually would be cheaper than Plummer. I like Carr and everything, but i just don't want us to cut the guy and get noyhing in return. We can possibly get something for him and watch, if he is just released someone is going to pick him up with the quickness. Only thing about it is they are going to call our "bluff" to see if we actually going to release him.

Huard will be great option for us and yes better then Plummer. Huard is on the wrong side of 30 but he can still play for few more years. My only concern is with the scheme we play but I don't think it will be major concern for veteran QB to adopt.

Tulip
02-06-2007, 08:38 PM
Who said Jake himself wants to be here.:spy:

Yeah, why would a QB want to be reuinted with the coach that he worked so well with in the past? He'd probably rather play benchwarmer on his existing team. Or take his chances with someone who doesn't already know or believe in him.

Tulip
02-06-2007, 08:40 PM
After reading McNair's quotes about wise spending on free agent signings, I feel alot better about renewing my season tickets this year.

Hulk75
02-06-2007, 09:18 PM
Yeah, why would a QB want to be reuinted with the coach that he worked so well with in the past? He'd probably rather play benchwarmer on his existing team. Or take his chances with someone who doesn't already know or believe in him.

From what I heard Houston is a starting over place for him and he would not "mind" playing here, it is not in his priority list of teams, hey, but thats just me. I simply heard he does not want to play here, so thats what I think and have heard.

And David Carr is better then Jake Plummer.

Honoring Earl 34
02-06-2007, 09:26 PM
:yawn:

CowboysTexansFan
02-06-2007, 09:29 PM
From what I heard Houston is a starting over place for him and he would not "mind" playing here, it is not in his priority list of teams, hey, but thats just me. I simply heard he does not want to play here, so thats what I think and have heard.

And David Carr is better then Jake Plummer.

Not true. During the season, Plummer made a point of saying that he wanted to play for Kubiak in Houston.

Your second comment is a matter of opinion. Based on McNair's and Smith's comments, it's looking more and more like we're going to find out next season, when Plummer takes the helm at QB for the Texans.

Hulk75
02-06-2007, 09:29 PM
:yawn:

What?

Hulk75
02-06-2007, 09:31 PM
Not true. During the season, Plummer made a point of saying that he wanted to play for Kubiak in Houston.

Your second comment is a matter of opinion. Based on McNair's and Smith's comments, it's looking more and more like we're going to find out next season, when Plummer takes the helm at QB for the Texans.

Yea it is. I dont care what he said during the season, thats what I heard (acctually 2 days ago) so deal with it.

CowboysTexansFan
02-06-2007, 09:39 PM
Yea it is. I dont care what he said during the season, thats what I heard (acctually 2 days ago) so deal with it.

Do you have a link to prove it?

Mr. White
02-06-2007, 09:39 PM
From what I heard Houston is a starting over place for him and he would not "mind" playing here, it is not in his priority list of teams, hey, but thats just me. I simply heard he does not want to play here, so thats what I think and have heard.

And David Carr is better then Jake Plummer.

Yea it is. I dont care what he said during the season, thats what I heard (acctually 2 days ago) so deal with it.

I could only imagine Plummer's "priority list of teams" that he would rather play for.

San Diego
Indianapolis
New England

And then 29 other teams that he wouldn't mind playing for.

Honoring Earl 34
02-06-2007, 09:41 PM
OK ... Jake does'nt want to play here . That does'nt make me change my mind about trading Carr .

CowboysTexansFan
02-06-2007, 09:45 PM
I could only imagine Plummer's "priority list of teams" that he would rather play for.

San Diego
Indianapolis
New England

And then 29 other teams that he wouldn't mind playing for.

Unless Plummer wants to be a backup, he definitely would NOT rather play for those teams.

Mr. White
02-06-2007, 09:49 PM
Unless Plummer wants to be a backup, he definitely would NOT rather play for those teams.

Who wouldn't rather play in San Diego?

thunderkyss
02-06-2007, 10:05 PM
Unless Kubiak can gaurantee a playoff berth with Jake Plummer, I don't see the Texans bringing him in.

It's not that I think David is as good or better than Jake(I don't) but I think this team's success is tied more directly to our running game. & our running game is tied directly to the Offensive Line.

I've been going back & forth about our first pick in the draft Levi is starting to look very very good.

But we need to get our running game going, and figure out how to protect our QB.

I don't think it's a good idea to have David on the field as we do this, because I believe David under center hurts our offense. I don't believe our protection is as bad as it seems, and I think our running game isn't helped with the threat of David Carr beating a defense.......... zone or man.

Start Sage, let Carr watch for 8 weeks or so. Let him get all the snaps in the preseason..... after 8 weeks, if Sage takes a bad hit, sit him down, and let David come in and play. If he looks good.... he starts the next week. If he doesn't, we pack his bags.

thunderkyss
02-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Who wouldn't rather play in San Diego?

Because Plummer won't start in SanDiego. He won't even be able to compete for the job.

old football fan
02-06-2007, 10:42 PM
I know that this MB is is here for all of us to put our opinions on the Texans out in the public domain. But first let's look at some facts, 1. Denver has not cut Plummer yet and they may not. 2. We are all reading to much into McNairs comments. I do believe that McNair now realizes that he has a good FO and HC that are going to work together to make this a winning team. This team has alot of missing links on it and I think the Texans FO and HC are going to do what they can to make this team win. We have what? 3 or 3.5weeks to FA and the start of trading. Let's wait and see what happens.

run-david-run
02-06-2007, 11:17 PM
The Broncos this season was 7-3 when Plummer was benched.

The Texans are 8-32 in the past two seasons.

Fixed it for you.

BattleRedToro
02-06-2007, 11:22 PM
Fixed it for you.

Actually that is still wrong. The Texans are 8-24 over the last 2 seasons, not 8-32.

vtech9
02-06-2007, 11:41 PM
I actually think that Carr will be back next year. About the only way I can see Carr being gone is if he does restructure his contract and then is released after June 1st.

infantrycak
02-06-2007, 11:49 PM
I actually think that Carr will be back next year. About the only way I can see Carr being gone is if he does restructure his contract and then is released after June 1st.

Restructuring his contract does nothing for the Texans and doesn't affect his cap hit pre or post June 1st so why does it matter to the decision?

infantrycak
02-06-2007, 11:51 PM
Huard will be great option for us and yes better then Plummer. Huard is on the wrong side of 30 but he can still play for few more years. My only concern is with the scheme we play but I don't think it will be major concern for veteran QB to adopt.

Dude is a statue, i.e. doesn't fit the system at all. Plus, where does the veteran QB come from?--in eleven years he has started 14 games, less than one season.

texan_fan_8
02-06-2007, 11:53 PM
Kubiak is also responsible for reviewing Carr and choosing to stick with him as the franchise quarterback...

I disagree. Its seems that Mr. McNair was advised to replace david and didn't. And that any coach that was to be hired had to do so accepting david. This seems to have changed, thankfully.:marionaner:

infantrycak
02-06-2007, 11:57 PM
Unless Kubiak can gaurantee a playoff berth with Jake Plummer, I don't see the Texans bringing him in.

Yeah, cuz coaches always gurantee playoff berths.

But we need to get our running game going, and figure out how to protect our QB.

But tk--our running game is going and our OL can protect the QB, you have said so well maybe not millions but certainly hundreds of times.

vtech9
02-07-2007, 12:01 AM
Restructuring his contract does nothing for the Texans and doesn't affect his cap hit pre or post June 1st so why does it matter to the decision?

only going by what I had seen happen to some other players that had restructured. Don't remember who it was or what team he played on, but I seem to recall a defensive lineman restructuring his contract only to get cut soon after June 1st. This was a couple years ago. Of course, my memory could be playing tricks on me since it has been a few years.

infantrycak
02-07-2007, 12:08 AM
only going by what I had seen happen to some other players that had restructured. Don't remember who it was or what team he played on, but I seem to recall a defensive lineman restructuring his contract only to get cut soon after June 1st. This was a couple years ago. Of course, my memory could be playing tricks on me since it has been a few years.

Non-guaranteed money, i.e. his base salary, has zero to do with the Texans' cap. On the other hand, his bonus has to be accounted for no matter whether he plays under his current contract or a restructured deal. In this case, the Texans paid him $8 mil but timed it so $2 mil went on the 2005 cap and $2 mil has gone on the 2006 cap so $4 mil has to be eaten no matter how he leaves the team. What you are recalling is most likely an instance where TN (or a similar event) restructured a current player to allow room for a FA signing and then cut a guy. Don't recall the Titan guy's name but they did that and Eddie George spoke out against it. Didn't effect the cap hit though, just the projected cap space.

kbourda
02-07-2007, 12:33 AM
Bob McNair was on record saying that we need "consistent QB play". I don't know if he checked the clock but those are words of treason in these parts. Maybe he's not a Texan fan either.

kbourda
02-07-2007, 12:35 AM
In all seriousness, Mr. McNair is a terrible actor. Carr will be here, period. Despite what he was on record saying. All we can do is hope for the best.

StarStruck
02-07-2007, 12:40 AM
I could only imagine Plummer's "priority list of teams" that he would rather play for.

San Diego
Indianapolis
New England

And then 29 other teams that he wouldn't mind playing for.

Sounds like Jake is looking at teams with the best chance of getting a Super Bowl ring instead of a starting QB position.

Scooter
02-07-2007, 12:42 AM
Sounds like Jake is looking at teams with the best chance of getting a Super Bowl ring instead of a starting QB position.

that was BRB's saying, not plummer's.

SamuraiSword
02-07-2007, 01:19 AM
uh oh I sense anger from a few Carr fans in this thread.......

I am going to wait and see myself because talk is cheap in this country. I want actions not words Mcnair!!!

But on a side note i am happy about this......:doot:

t_flare
02-07-2007, 01:26 AM
I truely think that the staff havent made a decesion yet... they want to see what they could do in free agency and the draft. I think the question is

"We think we can get x, y and z and have upgrade our team. Can David Carr be better and consistant enough for us to win games?"

They are probably looking at the first eight games. Ok David preform well in these eight games. Other than the setback at Tenn.. he played _____. (Above average or great) On the games where he struggled (Dallas Pats 1st Tenn) ______ was on David (%) and _____ is on injuries and last of talent (%).


They are probably looking at O-Line and RB with David. Probably "If we added him and have a healthy Spencer, can David play good and consistant" "If we could rush for 4ypc in all of our games, could David play good and consistant". If they feel like Adrian Peterson or a running back they can pick up and the O-Line holes will be hard to fill, they will probably go a different direction. If they think they can fix the RB problem and O-Line Depth then the question above will be the all end answer.

"With x,y,z can David Carr play good and consistant"

bluestars87
02-07-2007, 01:26 AM
I thought David would turn out to be a good player. Oh well.

swtbound07
02-07-2007, 04:31 AM
From what I heard Houston is a starting over place for him and he would not "mind" playing here, it is not in his priority list of teams, hey, but thats just me. I simply heard he does not want to play here, so thats what I think and have heard.

And David Carr is better then Jake Plummer.

Nice of you to stop by the board. I know you have a busy schedule, worshipping at the shrine of your brother. You know who WE don't want to play here? david carr. David Carr isn't better than Jake Plummer. Not by any measureable statistic imagineable. Unfortunately, the way i hear things, carr will be back for another season. Unfortunately, that means you will be here too, cheering every 3 yard completion on a 3rd and 4

HoustonFrog
02-07-2007, 07:44 AM
Bob McNair was on record saying that we need "consistent QB play". I don't know if he checked the clock but those are words of treason in these parts. Maybe he's not a Texan fan either.

Exactly..lol. The "C" word has been used by many of us.

Here is another thing. You can't just throw this out there and not have it affect people. It is still isn't like saying "he is gone" but Carr now knows he doesn't have the blind faith of the owner so maybe he'll throw out some more gems about just getting paid and playing anywhere.

BigWig
02-07-2007, 08:57 AM
Untill you see the house up for sale like we did with Casherly, I wouldnt count on Davey not being around.

old football fan
02-07-2007, 09:07 AM
Some pople on this MB are setting themselves up for a big disappointing fall. I think DC will be here as a Texans QB. Will he start? That remains to be seen. McNair said that they need to be smart in FA and throwing alot of money at a FA QB and cutting DC would not be a smart thing to do. Everybody is looking at just one position when the Texans have so many holes to fill. Lets hope the FO isn't doing this or all the other teams will have a huge advantage over us this offseason.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2007, 09:13 AM
Some pople on this MB are setting themselves up for a big disappointing fall. I think DC will be here as a Texans QB. Will he start? That remains to be seen. McNair said that they need to be smart in FA and throwing alot of money at a FA QB and cutting DC would not be a smart thing to do. Everybody is looking at just one position when the Texans have so many holes to fill. Lets hope the FO isn't doing this or all the other teams will have a huge advantage over us this offseason.

I don't think people are thinking it will definitely happen but I also don't think an owner would come out and say this unless he was preparing in some way for it to happen. Being mum on the subject was working just fine. By bringing it to the forefront he is actually risking alienating the player and making the mob scene even worse. The cap hit, by NFL standards, wouldn't be that large for this one year if they thought they could get better returns with a change. To me he just opened a bigger can of worms. JMO.

thunderkyss
02-07-2007, 09:16 AM
I disagree. Its seems that Mr. McNair was advised to replace david and didn't. And that any coach that was to be hired had to do so accepting david. This seems to have changed, thankfully.:marionaner:

I think that has been taken out of context....... Reeves said David has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. Reeves says he would have drafted Vince Young.

That doesn't mean that Reeves told McNair to draft Vince Young. That doesn't meant that Reeves said he would have drafted Vince if he were the Texans.

Yeah, cuz coaches always gurantee playoff berths.

well..... yeah, they do it all the time.

How far can the Texans go with Plummer?? I think that will be the question. If the answer is "A winning season, maybe the play-offs" then we should stick with Sage & David....

If Kubiak says we've got enough on this team that we'd definitely go into the play-offs with Jake...... & I can see him saying that(not that I believe that). Then in my mind, they should do what they got to do to make it work.


But tk--our running game is going and our OL can protect the QB, you have said so well maybe not millions but certainly hundreds of times.

Ron Dayne.... Chris Taylor.... even Wali Lundy have produced behind a poor, poor offensive line. I expect our running game to dominate the AFC once our line performs to the Denver Bronco's level.

David Carr was progressing, & making strides before he got benched in Tennessee.... afterwards, we tried to minimize the footprint he left on our games. I didn't expect David to play like an all pro behind our line....... but I didn't expect him to play like a redshirt Freshman either.

cuppacoffee
02-07-2007, 09:19 AM
Nice of you to stop by the board. I know you have a busy schedule, worshipping at the shrine of your brother. You know who WE don't want to play here? david carr. David Carr isn't better than Jake Plummer. Not by any measureable statistic imagineable. Unfortunately, the way i hear things, carr will be back for another season. Unfortunately, that means you will be here too, cheering every 3 yard completion on a 3rd and 4



Carr didn't run the three yard route when we needed four yards. :lightbulb:

:coffee:

old football fan
02-07-2007, 09:22 AM
I don't think people are thinking it will definitely happen but I also don't think an owner would come out and say this unless he was preparing in some way for it to happen. Being mum on the subject was working just fine. By bringing it to the forefront he is actually risking alienating the player and making the mob scene even worse. The cap hit, by NFL standards, wouldn't be that large for this one year if they thought they could get better returns with a change. To me he just opened a bigger can of worms. JMO.

But he also said that bringing Carr back and having a winning team all this bashing(for lack of a better word) stop. I don't believe that myself but it is what he said. CH. 13 Sports last night. It's just like the business saying, SALES CURES ALL PROBLEMS, in this case winning would do the samething. IMO

Mr. White
02-07-2007, 09:30 AM
But he also said that bringing Carr back and having a winning team all this bashing(for lack of a better word) stop. I don't believe that myself but it is what he said. CH. 13 Sports last night. It's just like the business saying, SALES CURES ALL PROBLEMS, in this case winning would do the samething. IMO

It's not a given yet that Carr's gonna be gone. I would expect McNair to say something like that after he said "We don't have consistency on the QB position and we need to get it."

I would expect him to backpedal a little after he throws the face of the franchise under the bus. Anything else he says is smokescreening IMO.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2007, 09:32 AM
But he also said that bringing Carr back and having a winning team all this bashing(for lack of a better word) stop. I don't believe that myself but it is what he said. CH. 13 Sports last night. It's just like the business saying, SALES CURES ALL PROBLEMS, in this case winning would do the samething. IMO

Winning always cures all. People are just going to take it how they want. I'm trying not to read too much into it yet I'm curious as to why the owner would put it out there when being quiet was working well. 1) He may be trying to give the impression that he is trying something new despite leanings to keep Carr or 2) he may be putting it out there as fair warning. Part of me just thinks that once you make these statements you are going to have alot of people now waiting for "the move." I mean Lopez has already written an article regarding the Texans being aggressive with this. It will snowball. That is a third possibility......3) the owner is attached to Carr but wants to be forced to make a move.

old football fan
02-07-2007, 09:37 AM
McNairs doing a running fake to the right side and then throwing a short pass over the middle hoping the receiver will catch the ball and run with it.

Meloy
02-07-2007, 09:52 AM
I would be a happy man if everyone go a fresh start. It is the only way to move forward.

It is like going back to that ex-girlfriend you have..she has a great body(arm) and gets along with your friend and family(potential) yet she always seems to psycho out and confuse you(NE and Oakland game).

The best bet is to walk away.Really like your girlfriend analogy & it can be taken one more step. She "psychos out" because you did not protect her and allowed other guys to beat her up for 5 years (sacks). And for those 5 years you tell her she has to do things a different way as you are not happy with the way she "kept house" and took care of your business (offensive coordinator). You did not give her a decent auto (running back) for two of those years & the one that did ok for 3 years kept losing a wheel (DDW). Often the vacuum cleaner (left tackle) or the broom (center) failed to do their job and your girlfriend fell down and got shook up. Sometimes you asked her to toss a beer to your buddy and the fool dropped the (pass). You, trying to help her become better select a bunch of reject appliances and furniture from the good will store (free agents) so you can say how hard you are trying. You totally screw up when trying to trade up washing machine and dryer (Philip B. and Babin). Then when someone says you can buy a deluxe big screen TV( Bush or Young) you go with smaller (potential) tv cause it might turn out to be just as good eventually (Mario). Now I am not saying all the moves you made were bad (Mario) but you keep blaming your girl friend for all your decisions. She had enough problems but you fouled your own bed and are looking to blame another for your smell. I sure hope you treat your next girlfriend better.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
02-07-2007, 10:11 AM
Really like your girlfriend analogy & it can be taken one more step. She "psychos out" because you did not protect her and allowed other guys to beat her up for 5 years (sacks). And for those 5 years you tell her she has to do things a different way as you are not happy with the way she "kept house" and took care of your business (offensive coordinator). You did not give her a decent auto (running back) for two of those years & the one that did ok for 3 years kept losing a wheel (DDW). Often the vacuum cleaner (left tackle) or the broom (center) failed to do their job and your girlfriend fell down and got shook up. Sometimes you asked her to toss a beer to your buddy and the fool dropped the (pass). You, trying to help her become better select a bunch of reject appliances and furniture from the good will store (free agents) so you can say how hard you are trying. You totally screw up when trying to trade up washing machine and dryer (Philip B. and Babin). Then when someone says you can buy a deluxe big screen TV( Bush or Young) you go with smaller (potential) tv cause it might turn out to be just as good eventually (Mario). Now I am not saying all the moves you made were bad (Mario) but you keep blaming your girl friend for all your decisions. She had enough problems but you fouled your own bed and are looking to blame another for your smell. I sure hope you treat your next girlfriend better.

Meloy you get my post of the day vote. Funny and True in one paragraph thats classic. Rep coming your way(if I have any)

HOU-TEX
02-07-2007, 10:48 AM
Meloy you get my post of the day vote. Funny and True in one paragraph thats classic. Rep coming your way(if I have any)

Is it 100% true? Sure we have plenty of holes to fill on our team. So do other teams in the league. The Lions have numerous problems as well, but Kitna managed to get the ball downfield. He also managed to throw for over 4000 yards. Romo didn't have the best O-line either, but was able to get the ball downfield too. His receivers also dropped the ball quite often. Hmm....sounds like we're still making excuses for poor little David.:stirpot:

SamuraiSword
02-07-2007, 11:09 AM
well i re-read the article again and the way Mcnair stated his statement.

Weve got to get better consistency there, either with David or with some additional help. We need more consistency at quarterback.

Now that I read it more carefully it seems that he either wants David to be more consistant or we get help to help him out. No where in the article states he is all for releasing him.Yes they have released veterans before, but not sure if he truly meant that for Carr. The only trade that would work if it was a cheap one. So basically we will all see Carr again in a uniform next season. I pray that I am wrong though.....

real
02-07-2007, 11:19 AM
Personally, I see a lot of the same type of QB in both Plummer and Carr. Perhaps JP is more consistent, so he might get the nod. But it's still not enough to justify the salary that will be spent on one position.

Super Dave still managed a game and made a couple of plays to help us beat the Colts with a solid running game. This is what we can expect, and could build a team to meet those purposes. DC may not win games on his own, but we just need him not to lose them for us. Most teams do not have superstar QBs, and many win in spite of it.

I'm not a Carr 'lover' or 'hater', so I don't think we should move him "just because". Why bring in another QB that is basically a clone of what we've already got? Change for change's sake is not always conducive towards success.




Just from my own personal observation, I would say that the most important feature of a QB is being composed. Composure is underrated IMO, when it comes to analyzing QB's. We like to look at height, weight, arm strength and forty time, but to me the value of a good QB lies in being able to think and react under pressure. Carr has all the physical tools to be a good QB, but he lacks composure. He's easily flustered in the pocket, and because of the poor O-line play in years past he is often too worried about the rush. This year our protection wasn't the best, but it should have been good enough for a fifth year, number one overall pick to make some plays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Jake is the most composed guy either, but I have no doubt in my mind that at this point he's a better QB than David. Jake has done it before so I know he's capable.

And I hear everyone talking about one more year with Carr because of salary...blah blah....

Scratch that....I'm tired of seeing poor play, and I'm sure a lot of you are as well. I don't care if we have to eat a little money if it means getting a better product on the field next year. They obviously didn't care about money when they were cutting all those Vets last year and in previous years. It's not like I'm expecting a superbowl out of the Texans next year regardless, but i'd atleast like to watch the game and no matter who we're playing, feel like our QB is competent enough to get us a win. I don't think Plummer is going to take us to great places, but I do think he will atleast give me a feeling of hope that we can.

Honoring Earl 34
02-07-2007, 11:19 AM
Winning always cures all. People are just going to take it how they want. I'm trying not to read too much into it yet I'm curious as to why the owner would put it out there when being quiet was working well. 1) He may be trying to give the impression that he is trying something new despite leanings to keep Carr or 2) he may be putting it out there as fair warning. Part of me just thinks that once you make these statements you are going to have alot of people now waiting for "the move." I mean Lopez has already written an article regarding the Texans being aggressive with this. It will snowball. That is a third possibility......3) the owner is attached to Carr but wants to be forced to make a move.

I'm still 50/50 on this one .... having said that if the Texans win with Carr , the fans will say it's about time . If the Texans lose with Carr the fans will say " I told you so ... you're the stupidest #$#% I have ever seen ... I can't believe I wasted another #$#%^ year on this $%^%^ team and that $%$ QB ".

You make the call .

real
02-07-2007, 11:22 AM
One more thing...

Everyone is acting like Plummer is terrible...

The guy was clearly a pretty good QB on a bad team in AZ...

He played like a pro-bowler just a year ago under Kubiak, and he was 7-3 when he got yanked this year...

Plummer > Carr

If Plummer goes to the Bears they are a better team.

If Carr goes to the Bears, they may indeed be worse and at best case the same.

Plummer > Carr

thunderkyss
02-07-2007, 12:00 PM
Really like your girlfriend analogy & it can be taken one more step.

I sure hope you treat your next girlfriend better.

& this is the main reason I say we need to sit David, to see how bad our team really is.

From what we've seen so far, nothing will ever be good enough if David Carr is our starting QB. How, or why, should we believe that David Carr was the right choice, but every move after that was wrong?? That is what is so hard for me to swallow.

Babin.... was he worth the trade up?? Probably not, but he's been one of the more productive members on our team every year he's been here. maybe that says alot more about the rest of the team, than Jason Babin. But what have we done to help him?? Gary Walker?? Morlon Greenwood?? Changing Defensive philosophies??

McKinney, Weary, Hogdon, Weigart, Wand...... the same guys that said David Can play said these guys can play.... They've already thrown out Hogdon(more or less) & Wand, and they are showing dissappointment in David.

& you speak of FAs as if they are completely worthless as a whole..... never mind that LeCharles Bentley, Steve Hutchinson, and Even Larry Allen(going to the ProBowl again) were considered prizes. Sure we didn't get guys of that notoriety, our guys were more like Kozier(from Detroit), Rivera(from Greenbay), & Colombo(from Chicago), yet Tony Romo was able to catch national attention(& acclaim(dropped passes & all)) while Bledsoe(proBowler..... maybe hall of famer) couldn't get started, and looked like David Carr.

That was a good post(yours) & you deserve rep for it. But I don't know how we can discount what we got out of DD.... Salaam(he handled Freeney twice this year, kept Demarcus Ware off our QB, & he kept Jason Taylor off our QB)....... & several of our other players.

TexansTrueFan
02-07-2007, 01:02 PM
Maybe it's just me, but IMO, Plummer is a definite upgrade over Carr.

That maybe, but Plummer has had a way more consistent O-Line in Denver than he will have here in houston. If we dont fix the line i dont see JP having much more success than DC has had the last 5 years.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2007, 01:11 PM
Really like your girlfriend analogy & it can be taken one more step. She "psychos out" because you did not protect her and allowed other guys to beat her up for 5 years (sacks). And for those 5 years you tell her she has to do things a different way as you are not happy with the way she "kept house" and took care of your business (offensive coordinator). You did not give her a decent auto (running back) for two of those years & the one that did ok for 3 years kept losing a wheel (DDW). Often the vacuum cleaner (left tackle) or the broom (center) failed to do their job and your girlfriend fell down and got shook up. Sometimes you asked her to toss a beer to your buddy and the fool dropped the (pass). You, trying to help her become better select a bunch of reject appliances and furniture from the good will store (free agents) so you can say how hard you are trying. You totally screw up when trying to trade up washing machine and dryer (Philip B. and Babin). Then when someone says you can buy a deluxe big screen TV( Bush or Young) you go with smaller (potential) tv cause it might turn out to be just as good eventually (Mario). Now I am not saying all the moves you made were bad (Mario) but you keep blaming your girl friend for all your decisions. She had enough problems but you fouled your own bed and are looking to blame another for your smell. I sure hope you treat your next girlfriend better.

Thanks for adding to my anology..lol. Good stuff. But your analogy sounds more like the girlfriends best friend who knows she has some mental issues yet refuses to acknowledge it. Maybe she had grandiose ideas of herself when she was younger and hotter(Fresno St.) and when this didn't go perfect for her out of school she got stuck in a rut, one where she never learned how to grow up. So she cried on her couch looking for help(taking sacks in the fetal position) and instead of helping herself(throwing the ball away while outside the pocket), she just pointed the finger. She knew you were a great guy and should only be with you but she couldn't keep staring at other men(eye raping receivers). After dating her 5 years you learned she hadn't learned a thing and that the most basic relationship issues(QB'ing 101) never sunk in. However once she moved away you realized that there were other people who treated you better(Free agent QBs) and that the one girl you had flirted with once was actually pretty good(Rosenfels working with the same line and doing well.). Either way, she got what she wanted and you got what I wanted...a full time break without explaining the excuses and problems to your family..

TexansTrueFan
02-07-2007, 01:15 PM
Thanks for adding to my anology..lol. Good stuff. But your analogy sounds more like the girlfriends best friend who knows she has some mental issues yet refuses to acknowledge it. Maybe she had grandiose ideas of herself when she was younger and hotter(Fresno St.) and when this didn't go perfect for her out of school she got stuck in a rut, one where she never learned how to grow up. So she cried on her couch looking for help(taking sacks in the fetal position) and instead of helping herself(throwing the ball away while outside the pocket), she just pointed the finger. She knew you were a great guy and should only be with you but she couldn't keep staring at other men(eye raping receivers). After dating her 5 years you learned she hadn't learned a thing and that the most basic relationship issues(QB'ing 101) never sunk in. However once she moved away you realized that there were other people who treated you better(Free agent QBs) and that the one girl you had flirted with once was actually pretty good(Rosenfels working with the same line and doing well.). Either way, she got what she wanted and you got what I wanted...a full time break without explaining the excuses and problems to your family..

He did do well in ONE regular season game, but other than that one game didnt all his success come in pre season playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers. I do think that after he had that good game where he almost brought the texans back that he deserved the chance to start the next week though.

real
02-07-2007, 01:16 PM
That maybe, but Plummer has had a way more consistent O-Line in Denver than he will have here in houston. If we dont fix the line i dont see JP having much more success than DC has had the last 5 years.

Our line ha played poorly in the past, but they weren't that bad this year IMO. I am actually not as concerned with the line as some may be. I definitely think we need an upgrade, but I also don't think it's our biggest weakness.

I would rather have a guy who I know has done it before, rather than a guy I have yet to see do "it" after 5 yrs....

David Carr is not that good guys.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2007, 01:22 PM
He did do well in ONE regular season game, but other than that one game didnt all his success come in pre season playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers. I do think that after he had that good game where he almost brought the texans back that he deserved the chance to start the next week though.

It isn't that I think he can or will be our QB but anyone that watched that game and examined it has to admit what they saw. They saw a guy, who with the same line, slid in the pocket..when he felt pressure he side stepped it. It was a completely different dynamic in the pocket. People are lying to themselves if they don't think so. Again, that doesn't make him our starter or a stud. It just shows that some QBS can handle the pressure.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2007, 01:23 PM
Our line ha played poorly in the past, but they weren't that bad this year IMO. I am actually not as concerned with the line as some may be. I definitely think we need an upgrade, but I also don't think it's our biggest weakness.

I would rather have a guy who I know has done it before, rather than a guy I have yet to see do "it" after 5 yrs....

David Carr is not that good guys.

Pretty much sums it up.

Texanfan4ever
02-07-2007, 01:39 PM
Nice of you to stop by the board. I know you have a busy schedule, worshipping at the shrine of your brother. You know who WE don't want to play here? david carr. David Carr isn't better than Jake Plummer. Not by any measureable statistic imagineable. Unfortunately, the way i hear things, carr will be back for another season. Unfortunately, that means you will be here too, cheering every 3 yard completion on a 3rd and 4

Hey SWT, "WE" is a pretty big word to throw around. Try some maturity. It seriously would make you feel better and look like a more credible person.

Mr. White
02-07-2007, 01:55 PM
Hey SWT, "WE" is a pretty big word to throw around. Try some maturity. It seriously would make you feel better and look like a more credible person.

"We" is relative. In this case, "we" only refers to about 90% of Texans fans.

Hulk75
02-07-2007, 02:08 PM
Nice of you to stop by the board. I know you have a busy schedule, worshipping at the shrine of your brother. You know who WE don't want to play here? david carr. David Carr isn't better than Jake Plummer. Not by any measureable statistic imagineable. Unfortunately, the way i hear things, carr will be back for another season. Unfortunately, that means you will be here too, cheering every 3 yard completion on a 3rd and 4

GOD Bless you.

Try not to be a internet tough guy, it does not fit you, your more like a marshmello in face to face convertations I am guessing, well I garuntee.

I wonder were all the hate comes from:evilb: . Its just a game. I dont know why it is personal all the time, pretty sad.

Hulk75
02-07-2007, 02:12 PM
Do you have a link to prove it?

Yea here it is..........:ok:



www.DavidCarrisBetterthenJakePlummer.com

Honoring Earl 34
02-07-2007, 02:44 PM
GOD Bless you.

Try not to be a internet tough guy, it does not fit you, your more like a marshmello in face to face convertations I am guessing, well I garuntee.

I wonder were all the hate comes from:evilb: . Its just a game. I dont know why it is personal all the time, pretty sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoVvKDl3lA0

old football fan
02-07-2007, 02:58 PM
I have only one problem with Plummer coming here. Denver was 7-3, going to the playoffs and pretty much looking like a contender for the SB. Why then would they pull their starting QB, after leading them to AFC Champ game last year, and put in a rookie and reduce their chance at playoffs and superbowl. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe the thin air got to them. And what is worse is everybody wants Plummer here???????

real
02-07-2007, 03:05 PM
And what is worse is everybody wants Plummer here???????

I don't see that as a bad reflection on Plummer...

If Plummer were the starting QB for the Bears he wouldn't have gotten yanked....

kcwilson
02-07-2007, 03:16 PM
My biggest issue is it is just difficult to figure out who Carr is:

At times, he will stick his shoulder down and bowl into defenders when scrambling for a first down (like he did against the Giants and quite a few times on the goal line in his career). He shows a toughness when running...

But put DL around him and his shoulder roll forward, he squats down... I don't remember seeing Carr really stepping up in the pocket and firing the ball. When pressure comes, he just tries to survive like Popke (Necessary Roughenss)...

No one likes to get hit, but he is so Jekyl and Hyde that I fear you can't trust him anymore. Cap hit aside, I don't see the value in keeping him on the bench if we bring in another qb... trade him and get any pick you can. Otherwise, it seems like the writing is on the wall that he'll just be released/walk in 2 years with no compensation.

old football fan
02-07-2007, 03:26 PM
I don't see that as a bad reflection on Plummer...

If Plummer were the starting QB for the Bears he wouldn't have gotten yanked....

I just want to know why he was yanked with the playoffs on the line. Can't be because of his bad play, I mean he wasn't playing that great but they were winning. I'm not opposed to him coming here just need some answers first.

real
02-07-2007, 03:34 PM
I just want to know why he was yanked with the playoffs on the line. Can't be because of his bad play, I mean he wasn't playing that great but they were winning. I'm not opposed to him coming here just need some answers first.

I think it was because Shannahan was itching to get his prized rookie into the action.

Jake wasn't playing all that well, but I think he'd have given them a better shot at a championship.

LORENZOF33
02-07-2007, 03:36 PM
Unless Kubiak can gaurantee a playoff berth with Jake Plummer, I don't see the Texans bringing him in.

It's not that I think David is as good or better than Jake(I don't) but I think this team's success is tied more directly to our running game. & our running game is tied directly to the Offensive Line.

I've been going back & forth about our first pick in the draft Levi is starting to look very very good.

But we need to get our running game going, and figure out how to protect our QB.

I don't think it's a good idea to have David on the field as we do this, because I believe David under center hurts our offense. I don't believe our protection is as bad as it seems, and I think our running game isn't helped with the threat of David Carr beating a defense.......... zone or man.

Start Sage, let Carr watch for 8 weeks or so. Let him get all the snaps in the preseason..... after 8 weeks, if Sage takes a bad hit, sit him down, and let David come in and play. If he looks good.... he starts the next week. If he doesn't, we pack his bags.

Dude are you forreal????? lmao!

BigWig
02-07-2007, 04:19 PM
Where is Limbo? I couldnt find it, maybe I should try the Wiki?:bubble:

dirty steve
02-07-2007, 04:25 PM
Nice of you to stop by the board. I know you have a busy schedule, worshipping at the shrine of your brother.
i'd rather somebody worshipping at the shrine of his brother WHO PLAYS FOR THE TEXANS than somebody who wears Tenn-10 gear but "claims" to be a Texans fan.

ahhh, the life of a bandwagoner.

TexansTrueFan
02-07-2007, 04:30 PM
Plummer has a good record as a starter. BUT he wont fare so well here, why dont we hear about how bad or O-Line is anymore ? All i hear is about how bad Carr is now. Think maybe the O-Line has something to do with how a QB performs maybe ????

shinerbock_girl
02-07-2007, 04:39 PM
Plummer has a good record as a starter. BUT he wont fare so well here, why dont we hear about how bad or O-Line is anymore ? All i hear is about how bad Carr is now. Think maybe the O-Line has something to do with how a QB performs maybe ????

And with our O-line, can Plummer be more Mobile then Carr??? I still don't see it...We more or less need someone who can scramble out of the pocket and be able to run....That is if we don't make some improvements in our line, Plummer would be a crash test dummy just like Carr....

TexansTrueFan
02-07-2007, 04:57 PM
And with our O-line, can Plummer be more Mobile then Carr??? I still don't see it...We more or less need someone who can scramble out of the pocket and be able to run....That is if we don't make some improvements in our line, Plummer would be a crash test dummy just like Carr....

If thats the case we miswell try to get micheal vick. ;) na nevermind....

swtbound07
02-07-2007, 05:13 PM
i'd rather somebody worshipping at the shrine of his brother WHO PLAYS FOR THE TEXANS than somebody who wears Tenn-10 gear but "claims" to be a Texans fan.

ahhh, the life of a bandwagoner.

Hey your still here! Great! Thanks for chiming in with your opinion about what you'd rather. It was duly noted, and much appreciated.

tsip
02-07-2007, 05:15 PM
Plummer has a good record as a starter. BUT he wont fare so well here, why dont we hear about how bad or O-Line is anymore ? All i hear is about how bad Carr is now. Think maybe the O-Line has something to do with how a QB performs maybe ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
OK IF we had an o-line that could protect Carr i think he would be a great QB. BUT the boy is shell shocked, even when he has time, he doesnt use it cause he's so used to beign knocked around by every defender on the field. I STILL THINK carr can have a very good career here in Houston, If he has a few games where he dont get pounded into the ground than maybe he'll trust the guys blocking for him enough to hold onto the ball for 2 more seconds so our recievers can break away and we can actually have some of those exciting pass plays we see on espn when they're showing other game highlights.

Did you watch the games this year? Did you know Carr was sacked 25 fewer times than in '05, though he had more tds than ints in '05? Carr had 11 games in '06 when he was sacked less than twice a game.

Kitna with Detroit was sacked 22 more times than Carr/had a worse running game/had a worse DF and still threw for over 4200 yds and 20+ tds...

..maybe you're not reading the comments to your post......

TexansTrueFan
02-07-2007, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
OK IF we had an o-line that could protect Carr i think he would be a great QB. BUT the boy is shell shocked, even when he has time, he doesnt use it cause he's so used to beign knocked around by every defender on the field. I STILL THINK carr can have a very good career here in Houston, If he has a few games where he dont get pounded into the ground than maybe he'll trust the guys blocking for him enough to hold onto the ball for 2 more seconds so our recievers can break away and we can actually have some of those exciting pass plays we see on espn when they're showing other game highlights.

Did you watch the games this year? Did you know Carr was sacked 25 fewer times than in '05, though he had more tds than ints in '05? Carr had 11 games in '06 when he was sacked less than twice a game.

Kitna with Detroit was sacked 22 more times than Carr/had a worse running game/had a worse DF and still threw for over 4200 yds and 20+ tds...

..maybe you're not reading the comments to your post......

Wow 25 fewer times, i'm not just talking about last year, i'm talking about his whole career. One year of getting sacked 25 fewer times than the year before, WOW thats a big accomplishment. He should be A Okay now HAHA:shades:

tsip
02-07-2007, 05:34 PM
Plummer has a good record as a starter. BUT he wont fare so well here, why dont we hear about how bad or O-Line is anymore ? All i hear is about how bad Carr is now. Think maybe the O-Line has something to do with how a QB performs maybe ????

..some more info about your OL question. IMO, the posters on the board have gotten more observant over the Texans inception and tend to know what to believe and not believe on face value.

Yes, our line has had bad moments...but also some good. IMO, a lot of posters realize that Carr's play is the same either way...answering that assertion, Carr's supporters say, "well, it's because he shell shock or because AJ drops too many balls or RB's aren't any good or the defense plays bad or he got his feelings hurt or whatever 'flavor' of the day..' but guess what..

...fans are looking around the NFL every Sunday and seeing other QBs with their own/some the same as Carr's problems but-unlike Carr- they still produce when they have the opportunities and even when they don't..

JMO, but I believe the 'blowing smoke' days are over...and that's why less is said about the OL and more about Carr...heck, he got to ride that 'pony' for 5 yrs...

tsip
02-07-2007, 05:44 PM
Wow 25 fewer times, i'm not just talking about last year, i'm talking about his whole career. One year of getting sacked 25 fewer times than the year before, WOW thats a big accomplishment. He should be A Okay now HAHA:shades:

Explain this. Carr's supporters said he had a great year. OL cut their sacks by over 35% in one year. What did Carr improve by that much in one year to be called great? TD passes maybe? Nope, not there--4 yr avg was 12, only got 11...maybe ints?, avg 13..hey, not 35%, but 1 less...got more, what you got?

cuppacoffee
02-07-2007, 06:24 PM
..

JMO, but I believe the 'blowing smoke' days are over...and that's why less is said about the OL and more about Carr...heck, he got to ride that 'pony' for 5 yrs...

Your opinion is wrong as far as this poster is concerned.

Its just that many of the Carr supporters are not cursed with tunnel vision like the Carr haters seem to be, and have grown tired of responding to the incessant whining.:crying:

I haven't changed my stance on Carr, and I believe most of the smoke blowing is being done by the haters.

But it's like stepping in fire ants, once in awhile you have to react.

Heres a kleenex, carry on..:cry2:

CAC

The Pencil Neck
02-07-2007, 07:02 PM
Plummer has a good record as a starter. BUT he wont fare so well here, why dont we hear about how bad or O-Line is anymore ? All i hear is about how bad Carr is now. Think maybe the O-Line has something to do with how a QB performs maybe ????

The O-Line has something to do with how the QB performs. And the QB has something to do with how the O-Line performs.

The O-Line wasn't running around with the ball in one hand so that someone could easily knock it out. The O-Line wasn't taking a short drop knowing it had to get the ball out quick and then bringing the ball back down. Our line wasn't deciding to throw short when there were guys open further down the field.

There were instances where the O-Line whiffed and let guys get to Carr too early but that's true of ALL lines at some time during a season. Our line did not perform THAT poorly. There were several times that Carr could have dodged a sack just by throwing the ball when he was supposed to. Other times he could have decided a fraction of a second earlier to run.

I think blaming Carr's poor performance on the line is just a cop out.

tsip
02-07-2007, 07:39 PM
Your opinion is wrong as far as this poster is concerned.

Its just that many of the Carr supporters are not cursed with tunnel vision like the Carr haters seem to be, and have grown tired of responding to the incessant whining.:crying:

I haven't changed my stance on Carr, and I believe most of the smoke blowing is being done by the haters.

But it's like stepping in fire ants, once in awhile you have to react.

Heres a kleenex, carry on..:cry2:

CAC
It's no secret why you're not posting--as always, you have no facts or links and no one-well almost no one wants to listen to 'empty air'--what are you going to do when Carr is gone? Tell you what, I'll get someone to draw you a big 'crying' towel for your avatar!!...black and gold, ok?

gtexan02
02-07-2007, 08:43 PM
From Kffl. No tsure if it was already quoted, but I don't want to read through 8 pages

Texans | Carr on way out?
Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:40:25 -0800

Joseph Duarte, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans owner Bob McNair said Tuesday, Feb. 6, QB David Carr's return next season will depend on what the team can accomplish in free agency. "David has been inconsistent, and we've said that," McNair said. "We've got to get better consistency there, either with David or some additional help." "A lot depends on what the options are," added McNair. "It's not just a question of, 'Are you totally satisfied with the results at that position?' The real question is, 'What can I do to improve myself at that position?' If I'm not in a position to get someone who is better than the person who is in that position, you're going to continue doing what you've been doing."

BattleRedToro
02-07-2007, 11:33 PM
It's no secret why you're not posting--as always, you have no facts or links and no one-well almost no one wants to listen to 'empty air'--what are you going to do when Carr is gone? Tell you what, I'll get someone to draw you a big 'crying' towel for your avatar!!...black and gold, ok?

He's a Notre Dame fan, so that would be Gold and Blue, but I'm not surprised that a tsip wouldn't know that. BTW, you can count me in the so-called almost noone. I'm willing to bet that he like myself grew tired of the same useless drivel and constant whining over Vince Young being passed over that he decided to find better things to do with his time and is only now checking back in to unfortunately find out that very little has changed on this message board.

Mr. White
02-08-2007, 08:51 AM
FWIW, Peter King has also jumped on this story too. In addition to his report a couple of days ago, he said last night on Inside the NFL that Carr is gonna be traded.

Everyone seems to be citing the Chronicle article about McNair's quote and combining it with John McClain's blog entry where he says that Carr will be traded. They're combining these two articles and reporting that Carr will be traded.

Like I've said before, this stuff doesn't come from nowhere.

TexansTrueFan
02-08-2007, 10:59 AM
Explain this. Carr's supporters said he had a great year. OL cut their sacks by over 35% in one year. What did Carr improve by that much in one year to be called great? TD passes maybe? Nope, not there--4 yr avg was 12, only got 11...maybe ints?, avg 13..hey, not 35%, but 1 less...got more, what you got?

To be called great, i think he is far from great. So ur saying a qb can get sacked 200 times one year and only 165 the next year , and since the O didnt give up as many the second year, its all the QBs fault. yeah they may have given up less, but the point is he has been sacked more than any QB over the last 5 years, so one year of not getting sacked as much doesnt mean He suddenly trust his O-line enough to hold onto the ball for 2 extra seconds so or recievers have a chance to get open. NO he dumps it off to reciever 4 years from the line of scrimmage cause he dont trust the line enough to give him time.

thunderkyss
02-08-2007, 11:00 AM
I have only one problem with Plummer coming here. Denver was 7-3, going to the playoffs and pretty much looking like a contender for the SB. Why then would they pull their starting QB, after leading them to AFC Champ game last year, and put in a rookie and reduce their chance at playoffs and superbowl. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Maybe the thin air got to them. And what is worse is everybody wants Plummer here???????

Maybe Shanahan has difficulty brushing off pressure from the fans?? who knows.

Do you remember our Preseason game against Denver this year?? There was one play where Plummer was droping back. He slipped, fell on his face. But he popped back up, and threw the ball for like 20 some yards.

Imagine what David would have done. Well, you don't have to imagine, we saw what he's done.

Texas_Thrill
02-08-2007, 11:06 AM
Am I the only one that believes Carr will still be the starting QB next season?

I read McNair's comments and though somewhat grey. I wonder if he's doing that to quench the fan's fire and in the back office just telling DC be cool this will all blow over and you're still my guy.

old football fan
02-08-2007, 11:22 AM
Maybe Shanahan has difficulty brushing off pressure from the fans?? who knows.

Do you remember our Preseason game against Denver this year?? There was one play where Plummer was droping back. He slipped, fell on his face. But he popped back up, and threw the ball for like 20 some yards.

Imagine what David would have done. Well, you don't have to imagine, we saw what he's done.

I understand what you're saying and I certainly not saying the Carr should still be or QB. But does Denver know something about Plummer that we don't? I wouldn't mind Plummer here but would always have a quesition about him in the back of my mind.

Mr. White
02-08-2007, 11:36 AM
I understand what you're saying and I certainly not saying the Carr should still be or QB. But does Denver know something about Plummer that we don't? I wouldn't mind Plummer here but would always have a quesition about him in the back of my mind.

Denver gave up on Plummer last year after the loss to Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Shanahan doesn't think that he can win a Super Bowl with Plummer (or so I've seen reported.)

Enter Jay Cutler. I guess Shanahan thinks that he can win a Super Bowl with him.

Which QB will win the Super Bowl for the Texans isn't really a concern yet. We just need someone to get us to the playoffs.

Lucky
02-08-2007, 11:41 AM
Everyone seems to be citing the Chronicle article about McNair's quote and combining it with John McClain's blog entry where he says that Carr will be traded. They're combining these two articles and reporting that Carr will be traded.
It is more likely that Carr will be released prior to the free agency period than traded. Carr's contract makes him difficult to deal, and I think McNair will allow David to shop himself to get the best deal possible for himself.

El Tejano
02-08-2007, 11:46 AM
It is more likely that Carr will be released prior to the free agency period than traded. Carr's contract makes him difficult to deal, and I think McNair will allow David to shop himself to get the best deal possible for himself.

That in my opinion would be much worse for this organization. First you don't draft a darn good QB because Carr is your man, then you let him go and don't get anything for it in return?

That would be just stupid. Then he goes to someone in our conference.

Mr. White
02-08-2007, 11:46 AM
It is more likely that Carr will be released prior to the free agency period than traded. Carr's contract makes him difficult to deal, and I think McNair will allow David to shop himself to get the best deal possible for himself.

IIRC, free agency begins in early March. So if your scenario plays out, then there's less than a month left of Carr threads.....(at least in the Bullpen.)

Lucky
02-08-2007, 11:58 AM
First you don't draft a darn good QB because Carr is your man, then you let him go and don't get anything for it in return?
Maybe you misunderstood what I said. Carr is scheduled to receive $5.25 milllion in salary for the 2007 season. $6 million for '08. That's too much $$$ for a guy teams know will be released if there are no takers. Right now, there's no trade market for David Carr.

Also, Bob McNair has much respect for how Carr has handled himself as a Texan. He's not going to hold on to David just to get a 2nd day pick. McNair knows that the right thing to do is allow Carr to pick his own team, and walk away with some dignity. Then, the new QB comes in without any controversy.

Texian
02-08-2007, 12:19 PM
FWIW, Peter King has also jumped on this story too. In addition to his report a couple of days ago, he said last night on Inside the NFL that Carr is gonna be traded.

Everyone seems to be citing the Chronicle article about McNair's quote and combining it with John McClain's blog entry where he says that Carr will be traded. They're combining these two articles and reporting that Carr will be traded.

Like I've said before, this stuff doesn't come from nowhere.

When you have to fill the airwaves 24/7 with talk, predictions and opinions you are going to get a lot of garbage.

The Pencil Neck
02-08-2007, 12:23 PM
To be called great, i think he is far from great. So ur saying a qb can get sacked 200 times one year and only 165 the next year , and since the O didnt give up as many the second year, its all the QBs fault. yeah they may have given up less, but the point is he has been sacked more than any QB over the last 5 years, so one year of not getting sacked as much doesnt mean He suddenly trust his O-line enough to hold onto the ball for 2 extra seconds so or recievers have a chance to get open. NO he dumps it off to reciever 4 years from the line of scrimmage cause he dont trust the line enough to give him time.


Well, first off, if you're going to use numbers for sacks... then use the actual numbers. We went from 68 to 43 sacks. That's a good improvement but we're still not good. We need to trim about 10-12 more sacks from that to get back into the middle of the pack. BUT... quite a few of those sacks are on Carr. With somewhat better pocket presence, making the timing throw at the right time, or even just taking off and running earlier, he could have cut a lot of those sacks. So don't look at the sack stat and assume that the blame for all those sacks are on the line.

And historically, year before last was an aberration.

2003 -- 36
2004 -- 49
2005 -- 68
2006 -- 43

30-40 sacks allowed is about average.

But here's the real problem. Most QB's that reach a state where they don't trust their line anymore and start making the mistakes that Carr is making NEVER recover. And if you read some of the things that Kubiak has said (e.g., that Carr makes the right reads and right plays in practice but not in the games), it really looks like the damage has been done in Carr's head. For me, that's what this year was for. To see if Carr's head was still on right and it doesn't look like it is.

amazingandre
02-08-2007, 12:48 PM
You guys are acting like plummer was taken out for a nobody. He was replaced by a really really good rookie who denver feels is the next elway. plummer knew he wouldnt stay in denver long. maybe he just thought he would at least finish the season out. just think. now cutler knows the nfl and improved so much. so now this new year he willl be fired up and ready. that way they dont have to spend this year teaching him. i think it was a great move to replace him half way through the season. and i AM NOW IN FAVOR OF BRINGING IN PLUMMER. he is good enough fr a patch work. but i think keep carr and train him like a rookie. he still really hasnt hah a qb teach himduring a season. i think plummer will help carr and the team.

NATHANHALE
02-08-2007, 12:55 PM
To be called great, i think he is far from great. So ur saying a qb can get sacked 200 times one year and only 165 the next year , and since the O didnt give up as many the second year, its all the QBs fault. yeah they may have given up less, but the point is he has been sacked more than any QB over the last 5 years, so one year of not getting sacked as much doesnt mean He suddenly trust his O-line enough to hold onto the ball for 2 extra seconds so or recievers have a chance to get open. NO he dumps it off to reciever 4 years from the line of scrimmage cause he dont trust the line enough to give him time.

...200/165 times in one year! Wow! Sorry, but you're never going to change how many times Carr has been sacked his first 5 yrs, so-using your logic-we can never expect him to improve. Too, in 3 of the 5 yrs, Carr avg 35 sacks==many of them his fault!

As far as shell shocked and not 'trusting' other players goes, Carr is playing the wrong position...maybe the wrong sport. This is contact football, not 'powder puff.'

TexansTrueFan
02-08-2007, 02:38 PM
...200/165 times in one year! Wow! Sorry, but you're never going to change how many times Carr has been sacked his first 5 yrs, so-using your logic-we can never expect him to improve. Too, in 3 of the 5 yrs, Carr avg 35 sacks==many of them his fault!

As far as shell shocked and not 'trusting' other players goes, Carr is playing the wrong position...maybe the wrong sport. This is contact football, not 'powder puff.'

Actually the way the league is going now in about 5 years you wont even be able to touch a QB, it'll be 2 hand touch when your about to sack the QB. :tease:

ib4texans
02-08-2007, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
OK IF we had an o-line that could protect Carr i think he would be a great QB. BUT the boy is shell shocked, even when he has time, he doesnt use it cause he's so used to beign knocked around by every defender on the field. I STILL THINK carr can have a very good career here in Houston, If he has a few games where he dont get pounded into the ground than maybe he'll trust the guys blocking for him enough to hold onto the ball for 2 more seconds so our recievers can break away and we can actually have some of those exciting pass plays we see on espn when they're showing other game highlights.

Did you watch the games this year? Did you know Carr was sacked 25 fewer times than in '05, though he had more tds than ints in '05? Carr had 11 games in '06 when he was sacked less than twice a game.

6-10 Record with average sacks to a QB

Kitna with Detroit was sacked 22 more times than Carr/had a worse running game/had a worse DF and still threw for over 4200 yds and 20+ tds.....maybe you're not reading the comments to your post......

3-13 record comparable to our 05 season 2-14 with the same amount of sacks. I guess that the yards don't mean a thing when your still 3-13

ib4texans
02-08-2007, 05:57 PM
Explain this. Carr's supporters said he had a great year. OL cut their sacks by over 35% in one year. What did Carr improve by that much in one year to be called great? TD passes maybe? Nope, not there--4 yr avg was 12, only got 11...maybe ints?, avg 13..hey, not 35%, but 1 less...got more, what you got?

WINS !!

ib4texans
02-08-2007, 06:06 PM
It is more likely that Carr will be released prior to the free agency period than traded. Carr's contract makes him difficult to deal, and I think McNair will allow David to shop himself to get the best deal possible for himself.

Carr has more value as some think the problem with Carr was his porous offensive line. The Texans are rumored to want a 3rd round pick for Carr and might be able to get it. Both Carolina and Jacksonville could be interested.

If he goes to either one and produces there are going to be a lot of posters eating crow.

Lucky
02-08-2007, 06:16 PM
Both Carolina and Jacksonville could be interested.
I never said that no team would be interested in Carr. But, he becomes much more attractive without giving up a draft pick and picking up his current contract.

NATHANHALE
02-08-2007, 06:19 PM
Carr has more value as some think the problem with Carr was his porous offensive line. The Texans are rumored to want a 3rd round pick for Carr and might be able to get it. Both Carolina and Jacksonville could be interested.

If he goes to either one and produces there are going to be a lot of posters eating crow.


There is going to be crow to eat either way the equation goes, unless one side runs and hides like the Caper supporters did...but, don't hold your breath...

shinerbock_girl
02-08-2007, 06:57 PM
Am I the only one that believes Carr will still be the starting QB next season?

I read McNair's comments and though somewhat grey. I wonder if he's doing that to quench the fan's fire and in the back office just telling DC be cool this will all blow over and you're still my guy.

No, I believe as well Carr will be the starting QB next year....

QB75
02-08-2007, 07:52 PM
David Carr isn't going anywhere except to the Texans training camp in July.

NATHANHALE
02-08-2007, 08:29 PM
WINS !!

OK, let's talk about wins using your analogy...

Detroit + 'big' QB #'s + bad rest of team= 3 wins

Houston + 'marginal' QB #'s + pretty good rest of team= 6 wins

...with me?
Houston + QB #'s like Detroit + rest of what we had= more wins, maybe playoffs

TwinSisters
02-08-2007, 09:32 PM
OK, let's talk about wins using your analogy...

Detroit + 'big' QB #'s + bad rest of team= 3 wins

Houston + 'marginal' QB #'s + pretty good rest of team= 6 wins

...with me?
Houston + QB #'s like Detroit + rest of what we had= more wins, maybe playoffs

well it might be more about Martz then it actually is about Kitna and Furrey.

thunderkyss
02-08-2007, 10:28 PM
I understand what you're saying and I certainly not saying the Carr should still be or QB. But does Denver know something about Plummer that we don't? I wouldn't mind Plummer here but would always have a quesition about him in the back of my mind.

trust me, I'm no Plummer fan, & I'd much prefer to give the ball to Sage, and if he can't do any better, give it back to Carr before we bring Plummer in here.

But it's stupid to think that Carr is as good as Jake.

I remember this past off season, all the Homer's were saying Carr will be like Jake one day..... It irked me, and I would say if you think Carr is going to take us to the Super Bowl, you better hope he'll be better than Jake will ever be.

Jake is a gamer..... he's going to do everything he can to give AJ time to get open..... give Moulds an excuse for coming to Houston....... & a reason for Owen to finish running his routes. Everybody will know not to stop playing until the whistle blows.


Why don't I want Jake in Houston?? to me, he's a shortcut, and I don't like taking shortcuts....... but

If we get Plummer, Nate Clements/Asante Samuel, and Terdell Sands, then in the draft get Peterson & Staley in the draft

but of course if we get Peterson, the QB position only has to be a little better.....

thunderkyss
02-08-2007, 10:37 PM
Carr has more value as some think the problem with Carr was his porous offensive line. The Texans are rumored to want a 3rd round pick for Carr and might be able to get it. Both Carolina and Jacksonville could be interested.

If he goes to either one and produces there are going to be a lot of posters eating crow.

Serve up the crow....... I've got my fork ready....... & my brew.



I'm tired of eating humble pie, or what ever they call this crap.

NATHANHALE
02-08-2007, 11:47 PM
well it might be more about Martz then it actually is about Kitna and Furrey.


...so why can't Kubiak get production out of David? Too, Kitna has started 6 yrs in his career, avg stats are--3367yds/19tds/18ints/214 sacks (36 per yr)...not bad for a guy that's played for several teams and having to learn 'all new' so many times--plus, as you can see, he's been sacked a few times,too.

TwinSisters
02-09-2007, 12:22 AM
...so why can't Kubiak get production out of David? Too, Kitna has started 6 yrs in his career, avg stats are--3367yds/19tds/18ints/214 sacks (36 per yr)...not bad for a guy that's played for several teams and having to learn 'all new' so many times--plus, as you can see, he's been sacked a few times,too.

all I am saying here is that Martz 'might' be a bigger part of your equation that's all. Nothing more than that.

Meaning Martz most likely can make more use of Kitna than Kubiak could ( or would be willing to do ).

Meloy
02-12-2007, 11:58 AM
Thanks for adding to my anology..lol. Good stuff. But your analogy sounds more like the girlfriends best friend who knows she has some mental issues yet refuses to acknowledge it. Maybe she had grandiose ideas of herself when she was younger and hotter(Fresno St.) and when this didn't go perfect for her out of school she got stuck in a rut, one where she never learned how to grow up. So she cried on her couch looking for help(taking sacks in the fetal position) and instead of helping herself(throwing the ball away while outside the pocket), she just pointed the finger. She knew you were a great guy and should only be with you but she couldn't keep staring at other men(eye raping receivers). After dating her 5 years you learned she hadn't learned a thing and that the most basic relationship issues(QB'ing 101) never sunk in. However once she moved away you realized that there were other people who treated you better(Free agent QBs) and that the one girl you had flirted with once was actually pretty good(Rosenfels working with the same line and doing well.). Either way, she got what she wanted and you got what I wanted...a full time break without explaining the excuses and problems to your family..See.. you & I just don't agree on the girl friend (Carr). If our Oline becomes effective in 07 (Spencer plays LT; Pitts & Weary solidify guard, Daniels remains healthy and Mckinney or SOMEBODY keeps center from being a tunnel directly to David). If the running backs improve(with or with out Peterson); and receivers do just what they did last season (hopefully, will do even better) and then if Carr does not significantly improve, I will agree it will be time for him to go. I am all about responsibility, but imo you need to treat your girlfriend better and then if she is not for you, then vaya con dios Carr. I just do not accept that the managements, any of them have done enough for our QB. Does he still bear responsibility. Yes. I want to see both improve in 2007.

SamuraiSword
02-12-2007, 12:04 PM
David Carr isn't going anywhere except to the Texans training camp in July.

You do realize the NFL is a Nomadic way of life? There is no gaurantee that a player will stay in the same town his whole career. Every player has come to terms with that and fans. I guess you haven't......

QB75
02-12-2007, 12:46 PM
You do realize the NFL is a Nomadic way of life? There is no gaurantee that a player will stay in the same town his whole career. Every player has come to terms with that and fans. I guess you haven't......

And I guess you'll see.

Honoring Earl 34
02-12-2007, 12:51 PM
And I guess you'll see.

So you have been assured by the team that's looking to trade ya'll . Remember no new taxes .

Hookem Horns
02-12-2007, 01:26 PM
...so why can't Kubiak get production out of David?

Because you can't get milk out of a bum steer.

Meloy
02-12-2007, 01:33 PM
So you have been assured by the team that's looking to trade ya'll . Remember no new taxes .Come on guys. Qb 75 opinion is just as valid as any of ours. This (again) is devolving into yes he is or no he isn't. Time will tell. I want to see management step up for Carr and I want David to step up and use the talents he has and improved his skills.

srstex
02-12-2007, 02:35 PM
I think what McNair said about Carr could have been said about the entire team, even the coaching staff. Now in the teams 6 year we have our 5 OC, so when the blame gets spread, let's blame the OC, he'll be gone at the end the season AGAIN, and we can blame someone new. Hopefully Kubiak has the strength and know how to keep his vision alive, let's be honest, now he has to teach his system to an OC, to continue to teach the team, the rookies and to win games. IF, the team comes back completely , I think we can look good, add some help, but change as little as possible, personnel wise, and let's see what two years with the same system/players can do. Open competition at every position?, Eric Winston will be our Right Tackle, Left if Spencer can't come back.

2 CENTS
02-12-2007, 02:50 PM
We are Stuck with CARR. That is better than being stuck with JAKE. They are both a waste of time. We had VINCE there for the taking now we have to play him twice a year for the next 12 years.
That said, we do have some options: 1) try to Sign Matt Schaub FA QB Atlanta. Atlanta could put the Franchise Tag on him which would end that deal. 2) we could Draft Kevin Kolb and or Jared Zybranski (both wouldn't hurt my feelings.
I would Trade Carr fo whatever we could get and make Rosenfells the starter for a Year which would give Kolb and Zybranski a chance to learn without Carr impeading their progress.

My 2 Cents

QB75
02-12-2007, 10:38 PM
We are Stuck with CARR. That is better than being stuck with JAKE. They are both a waste of time. We had VINCE there for the taking now we have to play him twice a year for the next 12 years.
That said, we do have some options: 1) try to Sign Matt Schaub FA QB Atlanta. Atlanta could put the Franchise Tag on him which would end that deal. 2) we could Draft Kevin Kolb and or Jared Zybranski (both wouldn't hurt my feelings.
I would Trade Carr fo whatever we could get and make Rosenfells the starter for a Year which would give Kolb and Zybranski a chance to learn without Carr impeading their progress.

My 2 Cents

I am looking forward to playing the Titans twice a year. With an improved team, I think the Texans will do fine.

thunderkyss
02-12-2007, 10:58 PM
I am looking forward to playing the Titans twice a year. With an improved team, I think the Texans will do fine.

I agree with you there. I can't wait.


Sure Vince is going to do his thang......... but that doesn't guarantee a victory. It's not like he's Rothlisberger or anything. Vince can, and will lose.

heck, I'll predict we'll sweep the Titans next year, before I have any clue what so ever who our starting QB will be.

Vince didn't just upset the fans at Reliant.... I can think of 11 guys off the top of my head that would like to give VY a little payback.

Honoring Earl 34
02-12-2007, 11:03 PM
I agree TK ... I think the Texans defense with a healthy Mario and some additions ... will be a force .

I hope Mario comes in and picks up where he was going before his foot problems started . If he does this it will take a lot of heat off the Texans FO .

HOU-TEX
02-13-2007, 10:02 AM
I agree with you there. I can't wait.


Sure Vince is going to do his thang......... but that doesn't guarantee a victory. It's not like he's Rothlisberger or anything. Vince can, and will lose.

heck, I'll predict we'll sweep the Titans next year, before I have any clue what so ever who our starting QB will be.

Vince didn't just upset the fans at Reliant.... I can think of 11 guys off the top of my head that would like to give VY a little payback.

Signed,

Someone who predicted a 13-3 season this past year.

lol! Just messin TK

NFLforher
02-13-2007, 11:00 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4550188.html


For the first time, the Texans admitted they have received calls from teams that are interested in acquiring quarterback David Carr.

petedy
02-14-2007, 12:32 PM
I can hear the auctioneer calling the auction already.It must feel great to be treated like a piece of furniture.The NFL truly doesn't treat these players like men but like property.Listen I know these guys make millions of dollars but things could be handled with more dignity.

afcman
02-14-2007, 06:25 PM
I'm glad to finally hear it. Seems like McNair's had an attachment to Carr that isn't exactly healthy.

Time to cut the cord.

+1. :doot:

NATHANHALE
02-14-2007, 07:06 PM
Nat, you're so wrong there. In fact, I'm a betting man.. I'll cover Carr with my cash. Will you quit barking about Jake, and break out you $$ and cover the snake. Last bet, I took was by Pocket Aces who disappeared after taking my bet as too Carr being here this year. I'm sending you a PM so you can have a shot at wallet. :shades:


Caddy, you've got the wrong poster--I don't want Jake, never have