PDA

View Full Version : Operation: QB Situation


Imatexanfan
01-30-2007, 09:51 PM
Look guys, Plummer is David Carr in a hippie disguise. You'd hate him immediately too. Why did Shanahan bench Plummer for a rookie? Gee...cuz Plummer SUCKS!!!

Bledsoe would be killed within two games starting behind our shotty O-Line. He couldn't cut it in Dallas. He surely isn't the answer here.
McNabb. I like him, but he's injury prone. If we had McNabb on our team and I was the GM, I'd make him sign a no-NFL2K any year and a no-Chunky Soup Commercial clause into the contract. The guy's missed significant time in two consecutive seasons. I don't think for the money, he's a safe bet. :bubble:

:secret: As I've said before, we should keep Carr, draft O-Line and add O-line help via FA. We should find a RB this draft who can be our main guy and take some heat off David. We should patch up our swiss cheese secondary and add depth on the Defensive line and we should let Carr be the QB until we groom another QB via draft or get one via FA and Cut Carr when it's not too expensive to do so.

My theory: Bring in Kolb from the Cougs
Train him for the first half of the season
Bench Carr around W6-7
Have Kolb lead the team to the playoffs:winky:

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 10:05 PM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 10:08 PM
I agree with everything except the start Carr for 6 or 7 games thing. That's just retarded. Start Sage.....

then in Week 8, if Sage doesn't look like he is competent, we'll throw in Van Pelt.... maybe Carr.. we don't play Kobb, until he's sat for a whole year with Kubiak.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 10:10 PM
I agree with everything except the start Carr for 6 or 7 games thing. That's just retarded. Start Sage.....

then in Week 8, if Sage doesn't look like he is competent, we'll throw in Van Pelt.... maybe Carr.. we don't play Kobb, until he's sat for a whole year with Kubiak.

Whats the point of keeping Carr around if you don't even want to play him, just waisted money on the bench, might as well try to squeeze a third or fourth rounder out of him.

Wharton
01-30-2007, 10:14 PM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.Exactly! Your getting rep for that one. :pepper:

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 10:16 PM
Whats the point of keeping Carr around if you don't even want to play him, just waisted money on the bench, might as well try to squeeze a third or fourth rounder out of him.

If I had my way, he wouldn't have been here in '06. He'll be here in '07, and it won't be because of anything I want, or don't want.

I wouldn't start him, because I want the Texans to put the best players at each position....... I want to win.

we've pissed away $7 million/year for the last 5 seasons........ what's one more.... or two for that matter.

Then we can hire David as a position coach.......

the DE position coach.....

QB75
01-30-2007, 10:22 PM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.

I'm not completely sure that these are the franchises that I would suggest as examples to follow.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 10:41 PM
I'm not completely sure that these are the franchises that I would suggest as examples to follow.

Uh why not, they fit what I'm saying.......

Nobody believes J. Kitna is the future in Detroit, he's holding down the job.
So was K. Collins
So was K. Warner

So is Plummer if he comes here.

Personally if I were you I wouldn't turn my nose up to other franchises seeing how we aren't any better.

Atleast these teams have recognized the problems they have and made steps towards a change, unlike what your willing to do.

TEXANS84
01-30-2007, 10:55 PM
Look guys, Plummer is David Carr in a hippie disguise. You'd hate him immediately too. Why did Shanahan bench Plummer for a rookie? Gee...cuz Plummer SUCKS!!!




Plummer was 7-3 when he was benched. How many wins did Carr get this year in 16 games? How about the past 32 games?

QB75
01-30-2007, 11:08 PM
Uh why not, they fit what I'm saying.......

Nobody believes J. Kitna is the future in Detroit, he's holding down the job.
So was K. Collins
So was K. Warner

So is Plummer if he comes here.

Personally if I were you I wouldn't turn my nose up to other franchises seeing how we aren't any better.

Atleast these teams have recognized the problems they have and made steps towards a change, unlike what your willing to do.

With the exception of the Titans / Oilers once-in-forty-years Super Bowl appearance (and loss), these franchsises are perennial losers. Their greatest service to the NFL has been as schedule fillers for the rest of a competitive league. I would rather aspire to replicate the success of other teams.

Honoring Earl 34
01-30-2007, 11:14 PM
Actually the Oilers went to the playoffs 6 or 7 straight years in the 80's .

QB75
01-30-2007, 11:16 PM
Actually the Oilers went to the playoffs 6 or 7 straight years in the 80's .

Don't remind me. I had almost forgotten! (Steelers, Bills,..)

TEXANS84
01-30-2007, 11:19 PM
Don't remind me. I had almost forgotten! (Steelers, Bills,..)

Yes, but the Texans are the only team to take this long to reach the playoffs.

Heck, even the Browns and Buccaneers made the playoffs by year 5. But as long as we keep winning a couple more games per year, then we'll be ok eventually.

yourfavoritetexan42
01-30-2007, 11:20 PM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.


Seriously, Plummer is not an upgrade from Carr.

With the better running game, better offensive line, TOP NFL DEFENSE (at the begin. of the season) he threw twice as many interceptions as carr did... but carr had 16 games while plummer had 8. Carr is faster and has a stronger arm than plummer. If they are both not very good mentally, I would rather the better athlete.

Arky
01-30-2007, 11:34 PM
Yes, but the Texans are the only team to take this long to reach the playoffs.

Heck, even the Browns and Buccaneers made the playoffs by year 5. But as long as we keep winning a couple more games per year, then we'll be ok eventually.

Actually, the Cowgirls took 7 years to have their first winning season. And I'm pretty sure (but didn't check) that New Orleans was pretty bad out of the gate...

TexanSam
01-30-2007, 11:38 PM
I've said this once and I'll say it again.

It's probably not a coincidence that after Kubiak left Denver to become our head coach, that Denver's offensive production went down. It's probably not a coincidence that when Kubiak was the OC at Denver and coaching Jake Plummer, Plummer had his best years of his career. Plummer is definately a better QB than Carr is at this point.

run-david-run
01-30-2007, 11:39 PM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.

The Broncos defense had the Broncos in the playoff hunt in spite of Plummer, not because of him. Through the first 6 weeks of the season, the Broncos were close to a record defenive pace in terms of points allowed and were winning in spite of Jake (see 9-6 OT win over Chiefs). The only reason they didnt start 6-0 during that strech is that, even with a great D, Plummer was terrible (see 4 picks vs Rams in loss where D does not allow TD). Jake Plummer was terrible last year, bottomline.

What I dont understand is that people are calling for brinigng in someone to "manage the game" and "not screw up". Umm, thats David Carr in a nutshell. 70% completions with very few picks, almost half of which came in one game. If Carr can play at the level he demonstrated in the beggining of the season (you know, when he lead the league in pass rating and was carrying our offense) and we avoid those crushing injuries, we are going to be a very competative team. Either we draft AP and have a balanced offense from the start of the season (which he almost have never had, its always been the passing game OR the running game, never both), or we get someone like Andersson to realy solidify the D. Bottomline, it is not practical to sit or trade Carr and start someone like Plummer, becuse the performances would not vary much, if at all, while we would have to pay for two overpriced QB's.

My suggestion for the QB situation is to draft a rookie no sooner then the 3rd round (everyone seems sold on Kolb, so if he is there he might be worth a shot) who will sit for a while and have the QB's currently on the roster (Carr, Sage, Van Pelt) earn the starting job in tranning camp. May the best man win.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 11:51 PM
Plummer + Kubiak is a upgrade over Carr and you can't argue that their defense kept them in a playoff hunt, becuase that same defense playing with a rookie, who technically had better stats, struggled.

Plummer might throw more picks, but he also throws alot more TDs. to me theres no difference between a long Int. and a 3 and out and short punt, which is what we get here..............atleast with Plummer you get points.

Plummer's last season under Kubiak he had a

18 to 7 TD/INT ratio, the year before that
27 to 20 TD/INT ratio, the year before that, which was his first year under Kubiak, he had a
15 to 7 TD/INT ratio, which is alot better than the 11 tds and 12 ints we got from Carr.

Yes Plummer is a upgrade.

Buckle
01-31-2007, 01:46 AM
I'm sure some of Plummer's success came from him being on a pretty good team with a very talented playoff team surrounding him! Look at what Plummer did in Arizona when they were terrible and had no o-line, the same thing that has been happening to Carr. You fix the O-line and the defense to get some good field positioning you fix the qb problem! Plummer is under no circumstances a better qb than Carr is! Carr's problems will be fixed when he can consistently take a 3-5 step drop and not be worried about a defensive player being in his face before he can set his feet! Look at the pocket our o-line gives him compared to any of the other "good" qb's, my guess is they look alot different!

Carr Bombed
01-31-2007, 02:17 AM
I'm sure some of Plummer's success came from him being on a pretty good team with a very talented playoff team surrounding him! Look at what Plummer did in Arizona when they were terrible and had no o-line, the same thing that has been happening to Carr. You fix the O-line and the defense to get some good field positioning you fix the qb problem! Plummer is under no circumstances a better qb than Carr is! Carr's problems will be fixed when he can consistently take a 3-5 step drop and not be worried about a defensive player being in his face before he can set his feet! Look at the pocket our o-line gives him compared to any of the other "good" qb's, my guess is they look alot different!

Oline, wasn't as bad as some of you make out to seem, was it top notch, no. Was it absolutely horrible nooooooo. They gave up 25 less sacks. The excusses don't cut it anymore, they would if Carr was a 3rd round pick, but as a #1 ovrl. pick, your expected to have better success despite lesser talent.

What the hell is the point of holding on to a former #1 ovrl. pick if we have to surround him with expensive players, with round one selections/FAs, all over the field that strap our cap, which is what some of yall expect us to do. What yall need to do is come to grips, that the difference between Carr and a subpar QB, isn't that far off.

Its all about pocket presence, Carr doesn't do his Oline any favors what so ever.

Would Carr be great if he was a mid round selection yeah, but he was the #1 player taken in the draft, at the price he is being paid his isn't cutting it. There are a handful of people in this league we could get, that perform at the same level or better that will cost us less in the long run. Backups in this league play better. Again he was drafted #1 ovrl all, he's paid to overcome adversity, he isn't doing it.









Also for the last time, I'm tired of hearing about the Oline, Carr isn't the first QB that came into a bad situation, when I judge him, I look at the plays where he did have time and it ain't pretty.

Its going on year 6 people........going on 4 offensive coordinators........multiple QB coaches........time to wake up and smell whats brewing and its a crock of ....

Blu
01-31-2007, 10:43 AM
You don't have any veteran QB's on this squad to tutor Kolb... except Kubiak.

What do you expect Carr to show the kid?
How to tuck and roll?

Like others mentioned, Plummer would just be a bandaid... to get us some wins, unless you want the Texans to be the butts of all jokes for another season, then you can start Carr for 7 games. Not me!

Texas
01-31-2007, 10:46 AM
Denver benched plummer because they wanna build cutler into a super quarterback...Plummer does great under kubiaks guidance...I stil say bring in plummer and get rid of carr!

QB75
01-31-2007, 01:09 PM
Yes, but the Texans are the only team to take this long to reach the playoffs.

Heck, even the Browns and Buccaneers made the playoffs by year 5. But as long as we keep winning a couple more games per year, then we'll be ok eventually.

Texans are not even close to the Saints.

Carr Bombed
01-31-2007, 01:24 PM
Texans are not even close to the Saints.

REALLY, lets discuss this...........

The Texans have no QB, a RB with a knee injury (which by the way, we need a franchise player in the backfield), and a WR corp, thats missing that spark outside of our #1, and a solid Oline, and we also have a very underperforming defense.

I'll say we are the 2005 Saints.



Man what a difference one draft and offseason can make.

Please_Evolve
01-31-2007, 01:31 PM
I'll quietly float this idea. Rohan Davey from the Cards. I thought he was a good prospect coming out of college and he'll be stuck behind Warner and Leinart now. He's an UFA and this year's QB's don't really entice me in the draft other then Russell. Rohan Kinda reminds me of him. Cannon arm...enough mobility. Of course it'd takea year to develop him and aclamate him to the system....but if that's what some are saying about Plummer coming in or Sage (sorry there's a reason backups are backups) and developinga rookie. Why Not Rohan whose at least had time to watch the game from the bench and a few years in the NFL under his belt. Just a thought.

El Tejano
01-31-2007, 02:14 PM
I'll quietly float this idea. Rohan Davey from the Cards. I thought he was a good prospect coming out of college and he'll be stuck behind Warner and Leinart now. He's an UFA and this year's QB's don't really entice me in the draft other then Russell. Rohan Kinda reminds me of him. Cannon arm...enough mobility. Of course it'd takea year to develop him and aclamate him to the system....but if that's what some are saying about Plummer coming in or Sage (sorry there's a reason backups are backups) and developinga rookie. Why Not Rohan whose at least had time to watch the game from the bench and a few years in the NFL under his belt. Just a thought.

Rohan Davey also had time with the Patriots so I assume he is pretty decent.

I wouldn't mind taking a gamble on Adrian Mcpherson.

QB75
01-31-2007, 02:32 PM
REALLY, lets discuss this...........

The Texans have no QB, a RB with a knee injury (which by the way, we need a franchise player in the backfield), and a WR corp, thats missing that spark outside of our #1, and a solid Oline, and we also have a very underperforming defense.

I'll say we are the 2005 Saints.



Man what a difference one draft and offseason can make.

The response was to the post who claimed that the Texans have taken longer than any other team in the NFL to reach the playoffs. The Saints took decades. Geez.

DocBar
01-31-2007, 04:12 PM
Uh why not, they fit what I'm saying.......

Nobody believes J. Kitna is the future in Detroit, he's holding down the job.
So was K. Collins
So was K. Warner

So is Plummer if he comes here.

Personally if I were you I wouldn't turn my nose up to other franchises seeing how we aren't any better.

Atleast these teams have recognized the problems they have and made steps towards a change, unlike what your willing to do.

We may not be able to look down on any other franchise, but we can certainly choose which ones to emulate. IMO, trade Carr if we can get some value for him, or suck it up and play the guys we have for one more year. I would rather play Sage or Carr than trade for or sign some over-the-hill reject from another team. Plummer isn't a "has been". He's more of a "never was". He's just not that significant of an upgrade ot warrant the kind of money he's going to want.
:tease:

tsip
01-31-2007, 04:52 PM
The response was to the post who claimed that the Texans have taken longer than any other team in the NFL to reach the playoffs. The Saints took decades. Geez.

Yeah, but the Saints are not a 'modern' era expansion team either, as they came along in the 60's like the Oilers did--Texans are the only 'modern' era expansion team that has not won by their 5th year...nor has been to the playoffs in the same time period...

ib4texans
01-31-2007, 05:42 PM
Oline, wasn't as bad as some of you make out to seem, was it top notch, no. Was it absolutely horrible nooooooo. They gave up 25 less sacks. The excusses don't cut it anymore, they would if Carr was a 3rd round pick, but as a #1 ovrl. pick, your expected to have better success despite lesser talent.

What the hell is the point of holding on to a former #1 ovrl. pick if we have to surround him with expensive players, with round one selections/FAs, all over the field that strap our cap, which is what some of yall expect us to do. What yall need to do is come to grips, that the difference between Carr and a subpar QB, isn't that far off.

Its all about pocket presence, Carr doesn't do his Oline any favors what so ever.

Would Carr be great if he was a mid round selection yeah, but he was the #1 player taken in the draft, at the price he is being paid his isn't cutting it. There are a handful of people in this league we could get, that perform at the same level or better that will cost us less in the long run. Backups in this league play better. Again he was drafted #1 ovrl all, he's paid to overcome adversity, he isn't doing it.








Also for the last time, I'm tired of hearing about the Oline, Carr isn't the first QB that came into a bad situation, when I judge him, I look at the plays where he did have time and it ain't pretty.

Its going on year 6 people........going on 4 offensive coordinators........multiple QB coaches........time to wake up and smell whats brewing and its a crock of ....



As I read posts in regard to the money being spent on David Carr as a waste of 7 million a year, I wonder how long it will take the fans to turn on Mario and his 5 yr $56 million contract. B]Again he was drafted #1 ovrl all, he's paid to overcome adversity, he isn't doing it.[/B]

thunderkyss
01-31-2007, 05:47 PM
As I read posts in regard to the money being spent on David Carr as a waste of 7 million a year, I wonder how long it will take the fans to turn on Mario and his 5 yr $56 million contract. B]Again he was drafted #1 ovrl all, he's paid to overcome adversity, he isn't doing it.[/B]

ON a bum foot Mario was making plays & running sideline to side line....

he was/is overcoming adversity.

ib4texans
01-31-2007, 05:53 PM
ON a bum foot Mario was making plays & running sideline to side line....

he was/is overcoming adversity.

I personally have no problem with Mario, I think he has made a difference by making the D a better unit. Individually he doesn't light it up. I am not a fan that begrudges a player his salary, I just hope that in another two years time we don't end up with the same belly achin about Mario's millions.

Plummer in my opinion is to much of a gamble,he was good with Kubiak in Denver. That does not equal good in Houston,not worth the risk.

tsip
01-31-2007, 05:58 PM
"As I read posts in regard to the money being spent on David Carr as a waste of 7 million a year, I wonder how long it will take the fans to turn on Mario and his 5 yr $56 million contract. B]Again he was drafted #1 ovrl all, he's paid to overcome adversity, he isn't doing it.[/b]"
__________________
AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGG

I love post like this! Maybe you weren't around here during Carr's first 3 yrs in the league, when we were in the '5 yr plan,' but there were far more Carr supporters than not. In other words, like some posters are still doing to this day, David was 'cut' a lot of slack.

Now, you come along with your 'outrageous' comparison--ok to give Carr yrs'to develope/produce but Mario has to do it from 'day one.'

Do you know the difference between an apple and an orange?

HOU-TEX
01-31-2007, 06:03 PM
I personally have no problem with Mario, I think he has made a difference by making the D a better unit. Individually he doesn't light it up. I am not a fan that begrudges a player his salary, I just hope that in another two years time we don't end up with the same belly achin about Mario's millions.

Plummer in my opinion is to much of a gamble,he was good with Kubiak in Denver. That does not equal good in Houston,not worth the risk.

That's funny. Compared to the kind of boring, dumbed down playcalling offense we've had to watch for the past two years, it's definetly worth the risk. Plummer might not be the best QB, but at least he'd give the fans some excitement.:winky:

Buckle
01-31-2007, 06:04 PM
BTW that 5 year plan that our last coaching regime is paying off for us now! I wish that McNair would have just hired Kubiak in the first place I feel like we might actually be a dominating team by now...I think i need some :drunk: thinking about the last coaching staff

ib4texans
01-31-2007, 06:14 PM
"As I read posts in regard to the money being spent on David Carr as a waste of 7 million a year, I wonder how long it will take the fans to turn on Mario and his 5 yr $56 million contract. B]Again he was drafted #1 ovrl all, he's paid to overcome adversity, he isn't doing it.[/b]"
__________________
AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGG

I love post like this! Maybe you weren't around here during Carr's first 3 yrs in the league, when we were in the '5 yr plan,' but there were far more Carr supporters than not. In other words, like some posters are still doing to this day, David was 'cut' a lot of slack.

Now, you come along with your 'outrageous' comparison--ok to give Carr yrs'to develope/produce but Mario has to do it from 'day one.'

Do you know the difference between an apple and an orange?


Yeah, I know the difference between an apple and an orange. I also wasn't making a comparison, I said " I wonder how long it will take th fans to turn on Mario and his 5 year $56 million."

I also said " I don't begrudge a player his negotiated salary. If you do why don't you see if they will let you sit in on the next signing deal after the draft, that way you can make sure they get it done right.

I've been a fan since day 1, I've got pictures of Reliant under construction. Mario just happened to be the only other #1 draft pick with a multi million dollar contract.

Bye the way love Mario, but guess what DE do have a different learning curve than QB's.

Arky
01-31-2007, 06:33 PM
Yeah, but the Saints are not a 'modern' era expansion team either, as they came along in the 60's like the Oilers did--Texans are the only 'modern' era expansion team that has not won by their 5th year...nor has been to the playoffs in the same time period...


When did the 'modern' era start?

(Joe Willie Namath predicting victory in Super Bowl III is *not* the modern era?)

thunderkyss
01-31-2007, 06:39 PM
Yeah, I know the difference between an apple and an orange. I also wasn't making a comparison, I said " I wonder how long it will take th fans to turn on Mario and his 5 year $56 million."

I also said " I don't begrudge a player his negotiated salary. If you do why don't you see if they will let you sit in on the next signing deal after the draft, that way you can make sure they get it done right.

I've been a fan since day 1, I've got pictures of Reliant under construction. Mario just happened to be the only other #1 draft pick with a multi million dollar contract.

Bye the way love Mario, but guess what DE do have a different learning curve than QB's.

If what we've seen from Mario is as good as it gets.... Mario is going to get a lot of this same criticism..... as early as next offseason, if he gets hurt again, or if his numbers aren't better than this years.

David got 3 years from most everyone here..... I won't put myself in that group....... it just doesn't seem right.

I don't think Mario is going to get that. & that's OK..... that's how it should be.

Most of the people who mention David's salary are being nice. They're saying he sucks, without saying he sucks.

ib4texans
01-31-2007, 06:42 PM
If what we've seen from Mario is as good as it gets.... Mario is going to get a lot of this same criticism..... as early as next offseason, if he gets hurt again, or if his numbers aren't better than this years.

David got 3 years from most everyone here..... I won't put myself in that group....... it just doesn't seem right.

I don't think Mario is going to get that. & that's OK..... that's how it should be.

Most of the people who mention David's salary are being nice. They're saying he sucks, without saying he sucks.



Thank you TK for understanding my post without flying off of the handle.

tsip
01-31-2007, 07:26 PM
"Again he was drafted #1 ovrl all, he's paid to overcome adversity, he isn't doing it.[/b]"

Did you make this statement? If not, I apologize. If you did, you say , "he isn't doing it," with no reference to any kind of time frame/slack/ or learning curve.
__________________

QB75
01-31-2007, 07:31 PM
Yeah, but the Saints are not a 'modern' era expansion team either, as they came along in the 60's like the Oilers did--Texans are the only 'modern' era expansion team that has not won by their 5th year...nor has been to the playoffs in the same time period...

He didn't qualify the claim by limiting it to a subjective definition of having had to occur in a "modern era".

tsip
01-31-2007, 08:31 PM
He didn't qualify the claim by limiting it to a subjective definition of having had to occur in a "modern era".

...so what, re-read some of your posts

QB75
01-31-2007, 09:15 PM
...so what, re-read some of your posts

Don't have to. I wrote them.:winky:

SamuraiSword
01-31-2007, 11:13 PM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.

you are are an intelligent poster. I will have to give you a rep for that one.

SamuraiSword
01-31-2007, 11:18 PM
With the exception of the Titans / Oilers once-in-forty-years Super Bowl appearance (and loss), these franchsises are perennial losers. Their greatest service to the NFL has been as schedule fillers for the rest of a competitive league. I would rather aspire to replicate the success of other teams.

Airzona.....Leinart with a horrible offensive line managed the game quite well
Titans.......Vince lead the team from a 0-5 record to a 9-7 winning season
Detroit......Kitna managed the game down there and the team is getting there

Why are you so gung-ho over Carr? Is this Mcnair???

BTW if the Texans keep this up we will also be perennial losers added to that list

TexanSam
01-31-2007, 11:32 PM
Detroit......Kitna managed the game down there and the team is getting there


I have no problem with the analogies to Leinart and Young, but don't throw Kitna into the mix. Kitna is no better than David Carr. He threw for more interceptions than he did TDs. Aside from one good year with the Bengals, Kitna has been nothing but a middle of the road QB. I guess you can say he managed the team to the tune of 3-13. Yay.

Sorry, just felt like getting that off my chest.

SamuraiSword
01-31-2007, 11:40 PM
I have no problem with the analogies to Leinart and Young, but don't throw Kitna into the mix. Kitna is no better than David Carr. He threw for more interceptions than he did TDs. Aside from one good year with the Bengals, Kitna has been nothing but a middle of the road QB. I guess you can say he managed the team to the tune of 3-13. Yay.

Sorry, just felt like getting that off my chest.

I don't keep up with the Lions I was going with people posting on this thread. I personally was hoping they would of drafted Leinart in the first round....I liked Vince, but I personally think he wouldn't have done much here in Houston. He has a thorn on his side now because Houston didn't pick him. That is why I think he is doing so well.....

threetoedpete
02-01-2007, 12:20 AM
Whats the point of keeping Carr around if you don't even want to play him, just waisted money on the bench, might as well try to squeeze a third or fourth rounder out of him.

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=34708

So how are you guys gonna squeeze a third or fourth rounder out of someone and jump over this four million dollar Gorilla ? Just asking there. The waisted money as you post subtracts from the 13.2 what ever cap surplus we have. Some of you better brace yourselves for some heart ache come June first.

From Marknolle on this subject:
Moving David Carr would cost us $4 million (the remaining unamortized portion of his signing bonus). If we cut him now or trade him anytime then that $4 million goes against our 2007 salary cap, which would save us $3.25 million against our cap since he is currently going to cost us $7.25 million, however we have to pay someone to replace him, and Jake Plummer or someone of that caliber could easily want $3 million or more. If we cut him after June 1 then we can put however much of that we want on the 2007 cap within some sort of limit and the remaining part on the 2008 cap.


so what ever DC editing you do needs to be edited with the above numbers in mind. To do other wise is just alice-in-Wonerland stuff. Interesting, with no credence or cerdible facts to support the fairy tail suppositon.

Please_Evolve
02-01-2007, 01:36 AM
I have no problem with the analogies to Leinart and Young, but don't throw Kitna into the mix. Kitna is no better than David Carr. He threw for more interceptions than he did TDs. Aside from one good year with the Bengals, Kitna has been nothing but a middle of the road QB. I guess you can say he managed the team to the tune of 3-13. Yay.

Sorry, just felt like getting that off my chest.

I think in all honestly unless the Lions are just really that dumb...which could possibily be the case but Kitna is by far no longterm solution. I thought some GM's were high on Orlovsky coming out of Connecticut as a late round QB gem.

Andrew6
02-01-2007, 02:04 AM
ever get to the point where you almost don't care how they do it, just do it, and win. Put who ever the hell in there that will produce and i don't care if its Carr or not Carr. I just want to be able to go to a game and not here fans from other places go so... do you think the texans will win one this year. That victory over the Colts was sweet. Only thing i'd love to see more of, is blow outs, and i don't mean on our side of the ball. I want to see the Texans just completely blow a team out.

ok sorry just letting off a little bit of post season stress:tease:

run-david-run
02-01-2007, 02:17 AM
Airzona.....Leinart with a horrible offensive line managed the game quite well
Titans.......Vince lead the team from a 0-5 record to a 9-7 winning season
Detroit......Kitna managed the game down there and the team is getting there

Why are you so gung-ho over Carr? Is this Mcnair???

BTW if the Texans keep this up we will also be perennial losers added to that list

You know its bad when two of the teams and quarterback situations you praised are drafting in the top 5 in the draft...generally a sign that its not so great. I think you're evidance is just a little subjective...

TwinSisters
02-01-2007, 03:18 AM
When did the 'modern' era start?

(Joe Willie Namath predicting victory in Super Bowl III is *not* the modern era?)

Technically Modern Era is everything after 1946. ( Hall of Fame calls it that way )

I think there are four big breaks
- 1966 pre-Super Bowl era
1966-1978 Super Bowl I & 14 games to 16 games and new pass rules
1978-1993 Pre Cap
1993-now "Modern"

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 07:30 AM
I have no problem with the analogies to Leinart and Young, but don't throw Kitna into the mix. Kitna is no better than David Carr. He threw for more interceptions than he did TDs. Aside from one good year with the Bengals, Kitna has been nothing but a middle of the road QB. I guess you can say he managed the team to the tune of 3-13. Yay.

Sorry, just felt like getting that off my chest.

Kitna played very well for the Lions..... they had some really good games, that should have been game of the week......

The problem up there wasn't necessarily Kitna this year.... it might be next year, as you never know which Kitna will show up...

But Roy Williams & Kitna were lighting up the fantasy stats.... alot of their losses were high scoring last minute affairs.... & like I said, some were really good games, that you left feeling they should have won...... like the St. Louis, & the GB games.

& they tore Dallas a new A-Hole.....

I don't even know what his stats were this year...... INTs & TDs...... but I'm pretty sure Kitna had a good-great year.

Kitna:
2006 Detroit Lions 16 16 596att 372comp 62.4% completions 4208yards 7.06YPA 60lg 21TDs(passing) 22(Ints) 63/388(sacked/yards) 59(20+) 3(40+) 79.9rating



He was sacked 63 times, and still threw for 4200 yards....... I'd be tickled pink if we could get that out of David, even with 21 passing TDs 2 rushing TDs, & 22 Ints........ INTs don't necessarily mean TDs for the other team, they're like punts sometimes.

Carr Bombed
02-01-2007, 08:48 AM
I'm stationed in Michigan and watched Detroit this year. Kitna wasn't bad, that team simply found ways to lose last year. It was strange. They would lose with defense one week, lose with special teams the next, then lose on offense the next in the final minutes. Roy Williams is a beast, I would trade AJ, straight up for him, he'll be the best receiver in the league one day.

Mr. White
02-01-2007, 09:06 AM
Technically Modern Era is everything after 1946. ( Hall of Fame calls it that way )

I think there are four big breaks
- 1966 pre-Super Bowl era
1966-1978 Super Bowl I & 14 games to 16 games and new pass rules
1978-1993 Pre Cap
1993-now "Modern"

Thanks for clarifying. Here's my take...

The reason that the salary cap exists is to encourage parity among all the NFL teams.

If an expansion team is managed right, then they should be in the playoffs by their 5th year. Having said that, the Texans weren't managed right the first 4 years. The jury is still out on year 5 and beyond.

A playoff contender next season isn't too much to ask for.

wolfscar
02-01-2007, 09:36 AM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here, but not all of it. The bit in bold - a lot of folk keep stating that Plummer took the Broncos into the playoff hunt and a winning record but Plummer was awful this year. I saw quite a few of his games and I would contend that Denver was winning games in spite of big Jake, not because of him. His decision making was laughable at times. Last season he was excellent, but up to that point and now beyond it he's been another 'almost' QB - just like our friend DC.

Now his one good year was under Kubiak and he's stated that he couldn't stand the new guy, so maybe that's why he sucked so bad this year, but for me taking him is just about as big a risk as keeping Carr. Either one could shine or suck next year in equal measure.

Trading Carr away also creates a problem with the cap, if I'm to understand it correctly. Somebody told me that if we cut David we effectively save $3million in 2007, but if we trade him we end up a lot worse - and without the extra draft pick to bring in that talented rookie I'm not sure we end up much better off.

What SHOULD have happened is he should have been let go when his contract ended, but there's no use crying over spilt milk. So that leaves the FO with a very tough choice to make. I really don't know where I stand on it, but I've always been a believer in standing by your word. That might sound naiive, but if you promise someone you're going to give them every opportunity, then that's what you should do. David should have done better at the end of the season, but having said that he was asked to do virtually nothing by that point (and actually did what was asked of him pretty well). And let's not forget that we beat the Colts for the first time in Franchise history, with Carr posting a QB rating of 104 in the game.

I don't know what decision is utlimately the right one - I just hope that the Texans FO staff do. I guess we'll see.

real
02-01-2007, 11:09 AM
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here, but not all of it. The bit in bold - a lot of folk keep stating that Plummer took the Broncos into the playoff hunt and a winning record but Plummer was awful this year. I saw quite a few of his games and I would contend that Denver was winning games in spite of big Jake, not because of him. His decision making was laughable at times. Last season he was excellent, but up to that point and now beyond it he's been another 'almost' QB - just like our friend DC.

It's kind of hard to concentrate on playing when you know that the head coach is itching for a reason to get you off the field because he just aquired this shiny new toy and wants to put some mileage on it. Plummer played well in AZ. He played well in Denver. He excelled under Kubiak. Carr played poorly under Capers. He played poorly as a vet. And played poorly under Kubiak.

I don't know if Jake Plummer is the guy to take us to the promise land, but I have no doubt that he's an upgrade over our current situation.

TexanFanInCC
02-01-2007, 11:39 AM
When your grooming a new QB, you don't keep the old gang green toe around. You bring in a Vet to hold down the spot in the mean-time.

See

Titans
Detroit
Arizona

People aren't asking Plummer to be the franchise QB here, they recognize that Carr isn't the option as do you, since you want to groom a rookie. However one thing Plummer is, is a savy Vet, who isn't as bad as people are trying to potray him. He had the Broncos in the playoff hunt this year and took the Broncos to the playoffs multiple seasons........he's easily an upgrade over Carr and has played many seasons in Kubiak's system...........theres no learning curve.

Pick up Plummer, trade Carr for a additional draft pick, and draft a talented rookie and let the transition begin.

Its only fair to Carr, he's still young and if he's not the answer on this team, the best thing McNair could do for him is let him catch on somewhere else, not parade him out in front of the fans every sunday that hate his guts and will be screaming for the rook. Every incomplete/bad pass/sack will be met with a house of boos, a PR nightmare.

i agree with everything said here. it doesnt help that we didnt draft vince young. if vince has success, then carr will always have pressure to do more than vince. plus, us fans are tired of losing. the guy who has been there all 5 yrs has been carr. sure we dont always have 2 probowl WR's (actually, we had 1 and a guy who has been there many times in johnson and moulds). we didnt have an all-world offensive line....but neither does drew brees, phillip rivers, tom brady, rex grossman, and a few others. i think plummer comes in, sage will be his backup, and kubiak will mold a rookie QB that we pick around the 3rd round (possibly kevin kolb).

kcwilson
02-01-2007, 12:22 PM
we didnt have an all-world offensive line....but neither does drew brees, phillip rivers, tom brady, rex grossman, and a few others. i think plummer comes in, sage will be his backup, and kubiak will mold a rookie QB that we pick around the 3rd round (possibly kevin kolb).

Rivers and Brady both have very good OLs... Brees' isn't bad either and haven't watched enough games of Bears to give an opinion, but it can't be that bad given the amount of time he has to throw. The OL as a unit is how one should be judged...

Also, Kevin Kolb, while impressive statistically, is being considered as the Andre Ware/David Klingler type QB coming out of college because of the system he played under in college. I am not sure a project qb is what this franchise needs... but I understand that every qb we select from college is a risk. I am not opposed nor in favor of Kolb, just wary of those system qb's in college... similar to Colt Brennan, who stayed in because of those similar concerns I believe.

El Tejano
02-01-2007, 12:37 PM
Rivers and Brady both have very good OLs... Brees' isn't bad either and haven't watched enough games of Bears to give an opinion, but it can't be that bad given the amount of time he has to throw. The OL as a unit is how one should be judged...

Also, Kevin Kolb, while impressive statistically, is being considered as the Andre Ware/David Klingler type QB coming out of college because of the system he played under in college. I am not sure a project qb is what this franchise needs... but I understand that every qb we select from college is a risk. I am not opposed nor in favor of Kolb, just wary of those system qb's in college... similar to Colt Brennan, who stayed in because of those similar concerns I believe.

When I hear Kolb, the only thing I can think of is David Car II

texans83
02-01-2007, 12:45 PM
When I hear Kolb, the only thing I can think of is David Car II

Yea I know how you feel!!!! Has everyone been listening to what all the scouts have been saying about him? He is at by far the 7ths best QB in the draft, he dosent have good vision and he isent capable of reading a defense bc he never did in college. Plus he has a hard time remb the plays, think about it guys he has been in the same system ever since hs, thats all he knows. He deff didnt perform good at the all star game so come on now why would they take another chance on him, if yall really want whats best for the texans then stop drulling over your home town players and look and see what all is out there. I love VY but dam it was almost a year ago so just get over it. Kolb is a bust

El Tejano
02-01-2007, 12:57 PM
I mean he really resembles Carr even coming from college. Played on a team that won some games when he played but never really was that good of a team or played against any great talent.

I'm not saying I know what QB we should take but Kolb is not the answer.

El Amigo Invisible
02-01-2007, 01:02 PM
Do you think the Texans could move up in the draft and take Quinn or Russell?
Do you think they would be the answer?

Personally, Russell might work for our system but not Quinn.:stirpot:

srstex
02-01-2007, 01:08 PM
Airzona.....Leinart with a horrible offensive line managed the game quite well
Titans.......Vince lead the team from a 0-5 record to a 9-7 winning season
Detroit......Kitna managed the game down there and the team is getting there

Why are you so gung-ho over Carr? Is this Mcnair???

BTW if the Texans keep this up we will also be perennial losers added to that list

Actually the Titans D did more to win the games not VY, please stop, you embarass your self by not knowing what happened in the games, he just happen to be the QB, and don't bring up the Texan game, that was a very good run, But it was against the next to the worst D in the NFL. If you need to defend VY, just sign onto the Titan webpage and make your piece over there. The Cards had Edge, so the D the Cards saw had to watch him first, that was atleast one more step then Carr got from the opposeing D. Carr has not stepped up enough for me either, BUT please atleast pay attention to the players/teams you are using for comparrison.

texans83
02-01-2007, 01:12 PM
Do you think the Texans could move up in the draft and take Quinn or Russell?
Do you think they would be the answer?

Personally, Russell might work for our system but not Quinn.:stirpot:

Well I dont really know, honestly I wouldnt take either one of them. Quinn kinda resembles Carr and he can never pull it off in the big games. Russell has a great arm but I think he is another Leftwich, What I mean is I think once he gets in the nfl he will try to put everything in to his thrown and try to squeeze the ball in tight spots which in the nfl it most of the time wont be succesfull all the time, and his throws will be off target. I think next year we look to get a qb out of the draft. There will be a better class next year.

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 01:13 PM
I dont' think that there is any easy fix out their, neither the draft or FA market looks like it has any promising solutions.

I don't think that Carr played great at all in the second half of the season. He managed games he had some difficulties against the good defenses that we faced(that's why they were good D's ie;Raiders,Pats) their is no sure fire fix.

We already have Carr under contract and the $ are commited,we are going to have to ride a year out with him. If he does not improve in the 2nd year with Kubiak he's a bust, then we can see what's going with 08 draft & FA.

texans83
02-01-2007, 01:16 PM
I dont' think that there is any easy fix out their, neither the draft or FA market looks like it has any promising solutions.

I don't think that Carr played great at all in the second half of the season. He managed games he had some difficulties against the good defenses that we faced(that's why they were good D's ie;Raiders,Pats) their is no sure fire fix.

We already have Carr under contract and the $ are commited,we are going to have to ride a year out with him. If he does not improve in the 2nd year with Kubiak he's a bust, then we can see what's going with 08 draft & FA.

I agree

real
02-01-2007, 01:28 PM
We already have Carr under contract and the $ are commited,we are going to have to ride a year out with him. If he does not improve in the 2nd year with Kubiak he's a bust, then we can see what's going with 08 draft & FA.

So you're saying that even if the Texans don't believe Carr is the best QB for the job they should keep him anyway ?

If that is true, basically they'd be saying, "yeah we know Carr isn't good, but we'd rather put a bad player on the field and be perrenial losers, than to eat a little cap space and possibly upgrade our team."If they believe that Carr can't get the job done, but they stroll him out there again because of his contract, I must say, I'd lose a little respect for the orginization. At some point if you think you've made a mistake, you've got to bite the bullet, admit it, and move on.

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 01:33 PM
So you're saying that even if the Texans don't believe Carr is the best QB for the job they should keep him anyway ?

If that is true, basically they'd be saying, "yeah we know Carr isn't good, but we'd rather put a bad player on the field and be perrenial losers, than to eat a little cap space and possibly upgrade our team."If they believe that Carr can't get the job done, but they stroll him out there again because of his contract, I must say, I'd lose a little respect for the orginization. At some point if you think you've made a mistake, you've got to bite the bullet, admit it, and move on.

If their is not a viable option that is a sure improvement, then it's a gamble and this franchise does not need to gamble next year. They need to improve, yes the QB needs improvement and so do other positions. The other positions just have more opportunity for improvement based on the quality out there.

Exithios
02-01-2007, 01:39 PM
So you're saying that even if the Texans don't believe Carr is the best QB for the job they should keep him anyway ?

If that is true, basically they'd be saying, "yeah we know Carr isn't good, but we'd rather put a bad player on the field and be perrenial losers, than to eat a little cap space and possibly upgrade our team."If they believe that Carr can't get the job done, but they stroll him out there again because of his contract, I must say, I'd lose a little respect for the orginization. At some point if you think you've made a mistake, you've got to bite the bullet, admit it, and move on.

Excellent post, the Texans can not let a little cap space hinder this team for yet another year. That will simply turn our team into the Browns (pre Ravens) losing the respect of the fans not just in Houston but nation wide and lighting a fire under the concept that this organization is satisfied with just existing within the NFL and never being a Super Bowl contender.

I'll not completely dismiss Carr as an, at least, mediocre quarterback capable of leading a team to the playoff's... Just not in Houston. May he make a better career for himself and life for his family elsewhere.

Rep to you xtruroyaltyx, you hit the nail on the head.

real
02-01-2007, 01:40 PM
If their is not a viable option that is a sure improvement, then it's a gamble and this franchise does not need to gamble next year. They need to improve, yes the QB needs improvement and so do other positions. The other positions just have more opportunity for improvement based on the quality out there.

Scenario: You have a girlfriend. She treats you terrible.

Do you: (A) Kick her to the curb (B) Stay with her, but see other ladies (C) Stay with her, and be loyal despite her mistreating you because you are afraid you can't do better

Saying that there are no "viable options that are a sure improvement" doesn't mean much. Nothing in life is "sure". Please explain to me what you mean by "sure" improvement.

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 01:47 PM
Scenario: You have a girlfriend. She treats you terrible.

Do you: (A) Kick her to the curb (B) Stay with her, but see other ladies (C) Stay with her, and be loyal despite her mistreating you because you are afraid you can't do better

Saying that there are no "viable options that are a sure improvement" doesn't mean much. Nothing in life is "sure". Please explain to me what you mean by "sure" improvement.



(B) I stay with her and see other ladies. That way I will know that my needs will be met until I find a better option.

Peyton Manning would "sure" be an improvement over David Carr.
I "sure" think time Brady is a better Qb than David Carr.
It "sure" would be nice if we had picked up Drew Brees in FA last year.

real
02-01-2007, 01:57 PM
(B) I stay with her and see other ladies. That way I will know that my needs will be met until I find a better option.

Sounds good.

But I'm assuming you'd be seeing those other ladies on the side. I doubt you'd be flaunting your new fling in front of your old fling. Otherwise Jealousy occurs, and creates a negative situation for everyone. Best thing to do would be to dump the old GF, and start fresh. No secrets. No lies. Two keys to a healthy relationship.


Peyton Manning would "sure" be an improvement over David Carr.
I "sure" think time Brady is a better Qb than David Carr.
It "sure" would be nice if we had picked up Drew Brees in FA last year.


O.K...

So I guess we should wait, for a pro-bowl caliber, superbowl winning QB to just fall out of the sky and into Reliant stadium. You named 3 of the top 3 QB's this year as if those guys are just waiting to be scooped up. When/If we replace Carr I highly doubt his replacement will be a "sure" thing, no matter when the transition occurs.

Exithios
02-01-2007, 01:57 PM
(B) I stay with her and see other ladies. That way I will know that my needs will be met until I find a better option.

Peyton Manning would "sure" be an improvement over David Carr.
I "sure" think time Brady is a better Qb than David Carr.
It "sure" would be nice if we had picked up Drew Brees in FA last year.

Sure. :ok:

threetoedpete
02-01-2007, 02:13 PM
i agree with everything said here. it doesnt help that we didnt draft vince young. if vince has success, then carr will always have pressure to do more than vince. plus, us fans are tired of losing. the guy who has been there all 5 yrs has been carr. sure we dont always have 2 probowl WR's (actually, we had 1 and a guy who has been there many times in johnson and moulds). we didnt have an all-world offensive line....but neither does drew brees, phillip rivers, tom brady, rex grossman, and a few others. i think plummer comes in, sage will be his backup, and kubiak will mold a rookie QB that we pick around the 3rd round (possibly kevin kolb).


Funny how you start out with those two, since both have OLT's on thier rosters going to the pro bowl and we saw fit to pass on in previous drafts. Just saying there... "all world" ? We ain't even close. And won't be untill they expend more value than a fifty pick on someone in the draft. Just saying there.....continue with the rant...

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 02:21 PM
Sounds good.

But I'm assuming you'd be seeing those other ladies on the side. I doubt you'd be flaunting your new fling in front of your old fling. Otherwise Jealousy occurs, and creates a negative situation for everyone. Best thing to do would be to dump the old GF, and start fresh. No secrets. No lies. Two keys to a healthy relationship.



O.K...

So I guess we should wait, for a pro-bowl caliber, superbowl winning QB to just fall out of the sky and into Reliant stadium. You named 3 of the top 3 QB's this year as if those guys are just waiting to be scooped up. When/If we replace Carr I highly doubt his replacement will be a "sure" thing, no matter when the transition occurs.



You asked me what I thought was "sure" and I told you.

I know it does not happen every year but the Saints picked up Brees in FA.

Kurt Warner is a better pocket passer and not mobile he also tends to fumble. He "sure" would be better than David Carr or Jake Plummer. He may be in the FA market. I am not saying that he is who I would pick.

I just think that we could aquire some better DB's,O-linemen at the same cost as 1 rookie or another mediocre QB, we already have a mediocre QB.

real
02-01-2007, 02:22 PM
And won't be untill they expend more value than a fifty pick on someone in the draft. Just saying there.....continue with the rant...

I don't think it's that simple. We keep trying to put a formula with this football thing. I honestly don't care where the Texans draft who. All I ask is that they take the most talented player on the board that we can utilize.

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 02:23 PM
Sure. :ok:


Do you even have clue what I'm responding to?

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 02:25 PM
I don't think it's that simple. We keep trying to put a formula with this football thing. I honestly don't care where the Texans draft who. All I ask is that they take the most talented player on the board that we can utilize.


Does this mean QB position only or the most talented player at any position?

If it's at any position then I agree 100%

real
02-01-2007, 02:48 PM
[/b]
If it's at any position then I agree 100%

Any position.

Our opinions on who is better may be different, but IMO, the process should be the same. At the 8th pick, if they think AP is clearly the best player available they should take him, or trade down and try to get more/equal value for him. I don't believe we are at the point as a franchise, where we can pass over talent for need. That works for teams like the Patriots and Colts because they already have so much talent, that they can afford to reach on a need. We don't have that luxury.

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 02:52 PM
Any position.

Our opinions on who is better may be different, but IMO, the process should be the same. At the 8th pick, if they think AP is clearly the best player available they should take him, or trade down and try to get more/equal value for him. I don't believe we are at the point as a franchise, where we can pass over talent for need. That works for teams like the Patriots and Colts because they already have so much talent, that they can afford to reach on a need. We don't have that luxury.


Yeah, I agree grab the talent when it's available. Talent gravitates to talent and in a few years we could have a roster full. That is what led Moulds to Houston.

texans83
02-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Yeah, I agree grab the talent when it's available. Talent gravitates to talent and in a few years we could have a roster full. That is what led Moulds to Houston.


Moulds?? I really dont think that he played a huge part in this past season. Not for what we are paying him. He is good but he is also getting old and slow!!!

Mr. White
02-01-2007, 04:22 PM
Moulds?? I really dont think that he played a huge part in this past season. Not for what we are paying him. He is good but he is also getting old and slow!!!

He'd get more looks if he had a better QB throwing to him. This one only stares down the first receiver.

texans83
02-01-2007, 04:27 PM
He'd get more looks if he had a better QB throwing to him. This one only stares down the first receiver.


True but I deff dont think he is worth what we paid him.. I mean honestly do you?? And when Carr is in trouble he just stands there, dosent he know he is suppose to move back towards the QB so Carr can find him easlier and get rid of the ball, I mean come on, that just shows me he is not giving 100%

Mr. White
02-01-2007, 04:33 PM
True but I deff dont think he is worth what we paid him.. I mean honestly do you?? And when Carr is in trouble he just stands there, dosent he know he is suppose to move back towards the QB so Carr can find him easlier and get rid of the ball, I mean come on, that just shows me he is not giving 100%

I think when we signed him, the FO thought that the QB would spread the ball around more than he does.

Good receiver that doesn't get many balls thrown to him.

texans83
02-01-2007, 04:39 PM
I think when we signed him, the FO thought that the QB would spread the ball around more than he does.

Good receiver that doesn't get many balls thrown to him.


True but the main reason we signed him was to take alot of pressure off AJ. Plus we really didnt expect OD was going to have a kind of rookie season like he did so that took alot of EM balls from him. I know if I had a choice to eather hit the tight end on a out rout or do the same thing to a reciever the exact same rout I know I would rather hit the tight end bc he is for one closer to the QB and he prob has a OLB covering him

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 04:52 PM
You asked me what I thought was "sure" and I told you.

I know it does not happen every year but the Saints picked up Brees in FA.

Kurt Warner is a better pocket passer and not mobile he also tends to fumble. He "sure" would be better than David Carr or Jake Plummer. He may be in the FA market. I am not saying that he is who I would pick.

I just think that we could aquire some better DB's,O-linemen at the same cost as 1 rookie or another mediocre QB, we already have a mediocre QB.

In the last 4 years, Jake Plummer has had one bad year...... David has had one good year..... I think that pretty much says that Jake is surely better than David Carr.

texans83
02-01-2007, 04:54 PM
In the last 4 years, Jake Plummer has had one bad year...... David has had one good year..... I think that pretty much says that Jake is surely better than David Carr.


I guess all we can do is wait and see wha happens.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 04:55 PM
Moulds?? I really dont think that he played a huge part in this past season. Not for what we are paying him. He is good but he is also getting old and slow!!!

What are we paying Moulds, and how much should we have paid him??

texans83
02-01-2007, 05:05 PM
What are we paying Moulds, and how much should we have paid him??

6,600,000 is what we are paying him a year. He got almost 600yrds recieving this past year. Now do you think we should be paying a 33yr old that much money with them kind of stats? Just asking I really dont think so but I dont know you tell me

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2007, 05:11 PM
6,600,000 is what we are paying him a year. He got almost 600yrds recieving this past year. Now do you think we should be paying a 33yr old that much money with them kind of stats? Just asking I really dont think so but I dont know you tell me

I bet if we lined him up on the left and gave him a # 80 jersey he'd a caught more passes .

texans83
02-01-2007, 05:14 PM
hE IS THE SECOND HIGHEST PAID PLAYER ON OUT TEAM. FOR THE YEAR
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?categoryId=67071

texans83
02-01-2007, 05:14 PM
im sorry third highest

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 05:24 PM
im sorry third highest

So how much should we have paid him??

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2007, 05:43 PM
hE IS THE SECOND HIGHEST PAID PLAYER ON OUT TEAM. FOR THE YEAR
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?categoryId=67071

Well ... he is a border line Hall of Famer .

ib4texans
02-01-2007, 05:46 PM
In the last 4 years, Jake Plummer has had one bad year...... David has had one good year..... I think that pretty much says that Jake is surely better than David Carr.



I won't argue that point. I do have problem with his bad year being the most recent one however. He surely was better than David Carr, on a better team.
Bringing him here there is just too much uncertainty that he can produce the same types of outcome.

Not to mention the fact that even if we do get rid David, Jake needs to play for less than 3.6 million or he's costing us more money.

I'm not all that happy with David, I just don't see the vast improvement.

SamuraiSword
02-02-2007, 02:13 AM
I bet if we lined him up on the left and gave him a # 80 jersey he'd a caught more passes .

:rofl:

I wouldn't doubt that for a second!

spurstexanstros
02-02-2007, 02:46 PM
HMMMM Im not buying all this KOLB talk. Haven't you people learned from the last quarterback from Houston. He had a heisman and he turned out to be a bad quarterback in the NFL. At least Andre Ware is a damn good color commentator. I think he is the best in the business. We dont need a overhyped QB from the same city or state, we need a running back from the same state.(Adrian Peterson) but he will be gone since the Carr led texans improved 150% from last year. Damn that Carr sucks he led the league in completion % and sent his reciever to prow bowl (someone threw him the passes) lets get rid of him. His stats are only improving every year. lets let him go to Minnesota and win a super bowl. You know the moment we let him go he is going to go to a contender and be their last piece.(see Steve Young) Worse yet he'd go to the Cowboys, cause jerry jones has been envious of him for years. So keep up the get rid of carr talk. when what we need to improve in other areas, like corner bac or strong saftey or better yet O-line or hey how bout this a running back who doesnt have a deep bone contusion. QB is the least of our concerns.

Exithios
02-02-2007, 02:54 PM
HMMMM Im not buying all this KOLB talk. Haven't you people learned from the last quarterback from Houston. He had a heisman and he turned out to be a bad quarterback in the NFL. At least Andre Ware is a damn good color commentator. I think he is the best in the business. We dont need a overhyped QB from the same city or state, we need a running back from the same state.(Adrian Peterson) but he will be gone since the Carr led texans improved 150% from last year. Damn that Carr sucks he led the league in completion % and sent his reciever to prow bowl (someone threw him the passes) lets get rid of him. His stats are only improving every year. lets let him go to Minnesota and win a super bowl. You know the moment we let him go he is going to go to a contender and be their last piece.(see Steve Young) Worse yet he'd go to the Cowboys, cause jerry jones has been envious of him for years. So keep up the get rid of carr talk. when what we need to improve in other areas, like corner bac or strong saftey or better yet O-line or hey how bout this a running back who doesnt have a deep bone contusion. QB is the least of our concerns.


We didn't mean to offend you David.

But on a serious note, I am still on the fence about David Carr. He did have a high completion percentage but, if you watched the games this year, nearly ALL of his completions were on quick routes and dump passes which takes little to no expertise and I wouldn't go as far as pinning AJ's high numbers on David Carr's shirt, AJ deserves his rep as among the elite receivers in the NFL.

I beleive if DC went another season in a Texans uniform it wouldn't be the end-all of the organization.

But on the other hand...

HOU-TEX
02-02-2007, 03:37 PM
Exithios;587619]We didn't mean to offend you David.

lol! I was thinking the same thing.lol:

But on a serious note, I am still on the fence about David Carr. He did have a high completion percentage but, if you watched the games this year, nearly ALL of his completions were on quick routes and dump passes which takes little to no expertise and I wouldn't go as far as pinning AJ's high numbers on David Carr's shirt, AJ deserves his rep as among the elite receivers in the NFL.

I don't think there is a fence any longer. If there's anyone left that thinks Carr is not a problem, then thier either a relative or a stalker. lol

I beleive if DC went another season in a Texans uniform it wouldn't be the end-all of the organization.

It would definetly NOT help it.

But on the other hand...

There's Sage or Plummer.:bubble:

SESupergenius
02-02-2007, 06:38 PM
In the last 4 years, Jake Plummer has had one bad year...... David has had one good year..... I think that pretty much says that Jake is surely better than David Carr.While I believe that Plummer is better than Carr, that is just such a blanket statement to make. Plummer has had many bad years however when he was with a bad team. Same could be said for David Carr and the Texans, the Texans overall are just not a good team.

Imatexanfan
02-02-2007, 09:54 PM
Check this out :

Browns
Lions
Raiders
Buccs
Vikings
Jags

All need a QB:drunk:

Since DC's worn out his welcome, maybe a straight up swap with the Browns for Braylon Edwards? They can take Calvin Johnson at pick 3.:bubble:

Carr for Sapp (Oak)?
Carr for Udeze (Vikings)
Carr for 'Witch/Garrard and a 4th? :tease:

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 11:10 PM
While I believe that Plummer is better than Carr, that is just such a blanket statement to make. Plummer has had many bad years however when he was with a bad team. Same could be said for David Carr and the Texans, the Texans overall are just not a good team.

No..... no........no.. no....... Anyone watching Jake in Arizona knew that he was the only talent on that team....... bad stats and all. He made the throws, he made the plays, he picked his team up, he won games..... he did everything anyone could expect him to.

Jake in Arizona is nothing like Carr in Houston.

CowboysTexansFan
02-03-2007, 10:04 AM
Damn that Carr sucks he led the league in completion % and sent his reciever to prow bowl (someone threw him the passes) lets get rid of him. His stats are only improving every year. lets let him go to Minnesota and win a super bowl. You know the moment we let him go he is going to go to a contender and be their last piece.(see Steve Young) Worse yet he'd go to the Cowboys, cause jerry jones has been envious of him for years. So keep up the get rid of carr talk. when what we need to improve in other areas, like corner bac or strong saftey or better yet O-line or hey how bout this a running back who doesnt have a deep bone contusion. QB is the least of our concerns.

LOL. Dallas has Tony Romo, who as a 3rd year undrafted free agent is already light years better than Carr, so Jerry would not be interested in bringing in an overpaid scrub like Carr.

QB is NOT the least of our concerns. The spots occupied by Andre Johnson and DeMeco Ryans are "the least of our concerns." Maybe QB is not at the very bottom of the list, but it's closer to the bottom than it is to the top. Carr is not one of our better players. If he was, why would Rick Smith have said the team was not comfortable or satisfied with his play this season?

SamuraiSword
02-03-2007, 11:29 AM
We didn't mean to offend you David.



:rofl:

Alot of people are going to think that after reading that post. I agree with what one person said. If you still think Carr is the man then you are either a relative or a stalker...............or Carr's PR agent.

old football fan
02-03-2007, 11:36 AM
LOL. Dallas has Tony Romo, who as a 3rd year undrafted free agent is already light years better than Carr, so Jerry would not be interested in bringing in an overpaid scrub like Carr.

QB is NOT the least of our concerns. The spots occupied by Andre Johnson and DeMeco Ryans are "the least of our concerns." Maybe QB is not at the very bottom of the list, but it's closer to the bottom than it is to the top. Carr is not one of our better players. If he was, why would Rick Smith have said the team was not comfortable or satisfied with his play this season?

Because he was asked about Carr's play. I'm sure that he would have given the same answer if it was about some of the other players and maybe the whole team in general.

Imatexanfan
02-03-2007, 08:25 PM
Look guys, up until this season big daddy Bob had protected his protege #1 draft pick QB, to the point of hiring a Head Coach to strictly elevate the play of David Carr, instead of hiring one to elevate the teams playing level, as a whole.

It is good to see that even Big Daddy Bob ain't gonna protect Pretty Boy Carr any more. It's sink or swim time for Carr, and he sank to the bottem, AGAIN. Bob ain't going to throw out any more life lines if Carr is being talked about in a "potential" trade deal, then he is on the market, IMO.

QB75
02-04-2007, 02:48 PM
Look guys, up until this season big daddy Bob had protected his protege #1 draft pick QB, to the point of hiring a Head Coach to strictly elevate the play of David Carr, instead of hiring one to elevate the teams playing level, as a whole.

It is good to see that even Big Daddy Bob ain't gonna protect Pretty Boy Carr any more. It's sink or swim time for Carr, and he sank to the bottem, AGAIN. Bob ain't going to throw out any more life lines if Carr is being talked about in a "potential" trade deal, then he is on the market, IMO.

Really. So when is a deal going to be made? Or is Carr going to be cut? Since he sank to the bottem and will no longer be protected, exactly how is this going to play out?

ledzeppelin229
02-04-2007, 02:57 PM
Really. So when is a deal going to be made? Or is Carr going to be cut? Since he sank to the bottem and will no longer be protected, exactly how is this going to play out?

I think Carr already played his way out.

QB75
02-04-2007, 03:05 PM
I think Carr already played his way out.

You think?

Navy_Chris
02-04-2007, 03:07 PM
I think Carr already played his way out.


I'm glad to see that I'm not the only Texans fan that actually sees that David Carr is wasted time and money. It's too late for him in Houston, he's shell-shocked and he's been that way since Day 1. The organization did him a disservice when they drafted him and threw him right to the sharks. But, that's how it is and it's time for us to move on.

What about this for our QB depth chart next season:

Jake Plummer
Sage Rosenfels
Kevin Kolb

looks pretty good to me!

ledzeppelin229
02-04-2007, 03:11 PM
You think?

Unless an utter second half collapse earns you additional competition-free chances, he is out. If he beats everyone out in camp then fine, but I give his odds there at 50/50. His limited mental grasp of the game holds back the rest of the offense.

Before you start jumping around, I'm not wishing failure on Carr. I don't give a **** who plays QB for this team, as long as they have a positive effect. I really thought maybe Carr turned the corner (it was a blind grandma turn, but a turn nevertheless) at the beginning of the season, but then in blind grandma style he had to drive into a ditch. He's been spinning the tires ever since. Now who is going to criticize me on my overuse of an automobile analogy?

QB75
02-04-2007, 03:34 PM
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only Texans fan that actually sees that David Carr is wasted time and money. It's too late for him in Houston, he's shell-shocked and he's been that way since Day 1. The organization did him a disservice when they drafted him and threw him right to the sharks. But, that's how it is and it's time for us to move on.

What about this for our QB depth chart next season:

Jake Plummer
Sage Rosenfels
Kevin Kolb

looks pretty good to me!

It looks expensive, since Plummer will command a nice contract, Rosenfels already gets paid well, Kolb will be drafted high and the Texans will be picking up some of Carr's contract if he plays elsewhere. This a highly unlikely result, if in fact, they actually even trade Carr. Too much money at QB in this proposal.

Navy_Chris
02-04-2007, 04:40 PM
It looks expensive, since Plummer will command a nice contract, Rosenfels already gets paid well, Kolb will be drafted high and the Texans will be picking up some of Carr's contract if he plays elsewhere. This a highly unlikely result, if in fact, they actually even trade Carr. Too much money at QB in this proposal.


In that case, a trade for Aaron Rodgers is another possibility that sounds intriguing. I wouldn't mind seeing Rosenfels, Rodgers and Kolb next year.

How would the Texans be eating any of Carr's salary if they trade him to Green Bay? for Aaron Rodgers?