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Wolf
01-30-2007, 08:44 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html

January 28, 2007
Texans 2007 Unofficial Salary Cap Info
by Keith Weiland
HoustonProFootball.com

Collecting NFL salary cap data is an inexact science at best. The 2007 information posted below is only as accurate as the reports published by the media. It also includes best guesses to plug holes where the media reports are lacking. This page would not be possible without the help of many others who have helped me along the way.

A couple quick notes... Click here to view the 2008 version of this page. Only the top 51 salaries are counted against the cap. Also, several veterans with four-plus years of experience at league minimum salaries qualify for the veterans' exemption and carry a cap figure less than their reported salary. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, bonus information and incentives, including option bonuses, roster bonuses, reporting bonuses, workout bonuses, Pro Bowl bonuses, etc., are the most difficult to obtain, especially in the cases of early round draft picks and major extension and free agent signings, so please take these estimates as just that... estimates.


AJ ....7.4 million
Carr...7.2
Weaver 4.9
greenwood 4.6
DD errr now DW 4.6
payne 4.3
Pitts 4.1

dead money
Gary walker 5.5
Todd wade 4.9
Robaire 4.1

*Note: The Texans will likely exercise a $12 million option bonus on Mario Williams' contract. Per ESPN.com, this will lower his future years' salaries as follows: $975,000 (2007), $1.575 million (2008), $2.3 million (2009) and $3.025 million (2010) and add the 2011 season at a base salary of $3.725 million. Also from the report: "Williams can void the final two years of the deal based on playing time levels and if he and the team reach certain predetermined performance levels, but the Texans then have a right to buy back the voided 2010 and 2011 seasons at a cost of $8.5 million. There are plenty of incentives, like $125,000 in most years for leading the league in sacks, bonuses for honors and playoff victories, and escalators that can raise the base salaries in 2010 and 2011 by $6 million and $9.5 million, respectively."

Amount Under/(Over) ... $13,302,134*

Wolf
01-30-2007, 08:48 PM
I want to say WOW on the estimated salary cap for 2008

AJ 9.9 million
Carr 8.0 million
Weaver 5.4
DD .5.4
Pitts 5.0
moulds..4.2
Weigert 4.1
Flannigan 4.0

Bubbajwp
01-30-2007, 09:17 PM
I want to say WOW on the estimated salary cap for 2008

AJ 9.9 million
Carr 8.0 million
Weaver 5.4
DD .5.4
Pitts 5.0
moulds..4.2
Weigard 4.1
Flannigan 4.0

I can easily see these players not being on our roster in 09.

run-david-run
01-30-2007, 09:27 PM
I can easily see these players not being on our roster in 09.
That depends on their contract, because if most of that is in bonuses, we will end up with a bunch of dead money on the cap.

Bubbajwp
01-30-2007, 09:34 PM
That depends on their contract, because if most of that is in bonuses, we will end up with a bunch of dead money on the cap.

In 09 they will all be near the end of their contracts. Which means there wont be much garunteed money left to be paid.

gtexan02
01-30-2007, 09:46 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html



AJ ....7.4 million
Carr...7.2
Weaver 4.9
greenwood 4.6
DD errr now DW 4.6
payne 4.3
Pitts 4.1

dead money
Gary walker 5.5
Todd wade 4.9
Robaire 4.1



WOW!!!! Out of that entire list, only 1 player played even close to his cap value. Everyone else is VASTLY overpaid.

Wolf
01-30-2007, 09:51 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2008.html


2 million bonus for carr and aj.. under two mil for the others

Trap_Star
01-30-2007, 10:46 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html


dead money
Gary walker 5.5
Todd wade 4.9
Robaire 4.1





:brickwall :dangit: :thud: :hairpull:

TEXANRED
01-30-2007, 10:54 PM
WOW!!!! Out of that entire list, only 1 player played even close to his cap value. Everyone else is VASTLY overpaid.

I would have to disagree with that. I think Weaver did a solid job on the D-Line and getting a push on the O-line.

I still have the opinion that he would be better served as a DT vs DE.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 10:55 PM
Thanks Charlie

Casserly was a sports agent's dream sucker, when in came FA time.

again

Thanks Charlie

recipe for a 0-16 team

Owner
Al Davis

GM
Charlie Casserly

Coach
Dom Capers

Dang we had 2 out of 3

Surely the Al Davis factor could of gave us a extra 2 losses in 05, But then again Al Davis robbed Charlie naked with the Buchanon deal...........god I hate you Charlie, how the hell do you still have a job.......really.

t_flare
01-31-2007, 11:12 PM
hey.. to bring in FA to Houston now.. you have to overpay.

threetoedpete
01-31-2007, 11:53 PM
That depends on their contract, because if most of that is in bonuses, we will end up with a bunch of dead money on the cap.

So if I'm reading this correctly....wanna be sure...they move DC...Weigert and Payne are non starters 8.3 ... DC and dominick Williams are a eight point one million cap hit , that's 16 . 4 million this year off the 13. whatever ? Which leaves us in a 2.9 million cap dollar hole .... before we sign our draft choices.

I think we need to pair down the free agent's wish list just a tad.

MorKnolle
01-31-2007, 11:57 PM
So if I'm reading this correctly....wanna be sure...they move DC...Weigert and Payne are non starters 8.3 ... DC and dominick Williams are a eight point one million cap hit , that's 16 . 4 million this year off the 13. whatever ? Which leaves us in a 2.9 million cap dollar hole .... before we sign our draft choices.

I think we need to pair down the free agent's wish list just a tad.

Moving David Carr would cost us $4 million (the remaining unamortized portion of his signing bonus). If we cut him now or trade him anytime then that $4 million goes against our 2007 salary cap, which would save us $3.25 million against our cap since he is currently going to cost us $7.25 million if he stays. However, we have to pay someone to replace him, and Jake Plummer or someone of that caliber could easily want $3 million or more which would negate that freed cap room. If we cut him after June 1 then we can put however much of that we want on the 2007 cap (within some sort of limit) and the remaining part on the 2008 cap, which would save us cap space in 2007 but cost us cap space in 2008.

Similarly, moving Domanick Williams costs us $3.9 million against the cap, all of that in 2007 if we trade him or cut him before June 1. That would save us $740k against the cap in 2007 since he is currently going to cost us $4.64 million, although it would free us from any salary cap obligations to him in 2008 and beyond. If we cut him after June 1 (the most likely option if they are going to move him) then we can put however much of that we want against the 2007 cap, the rest against the 2008 cap. If we cut him somewhere in the training camp area, we'd already know if his knee is going to hold up (remove the guessing on that) plus we should have already signed our draft prospects and free agents so we'd know how much cap room we'd still have and need to leave for the 2007 year. Then we can put as much as possible on the 2007 cap to get it out of the way since we already have our roster in place (leaving a little room for emergency signings when people get injured) and leave as much room as possible on the 2008 cap.

As for Seth Payne, moving him costs us $2.5 million against this year's cap vs. the $4.325 he's scheduled to cost, thus saving us $1.8 million. If we cut him after June 1 we can delay some of that cap hit to the 2008 season, saving us cap space this year but costing us cap space next year.

Moving Zach Wiegert costs us $2.5 million vs. $3.125 million to keep him, so that saves us $625k this year.

Moving Kailee Wong (also a possibility) would cost us $4.95 mllion vs. $3.59 to keep him, so that would cost us $1.36 million extra against the cap to trade him or cut him before June 1. Cutting him after June 1 we can move some of that cap hit to 2008 to free up room against the 2007 cap, but again that hurts our 2008 cap room.

For those who might be wondering, moving Greenwood costs us $4.2 million against the cap vs. $4.664 million to keep him, so that would save us $466k against this year's cap. At this point I am quite sure he'll be here next year though.

Moving Kris Brown costs us $1.14 million against the cap vs. $1.73 million to keep him, unfortunately only saving us $590k against the cap which wouldn't be enough to sign a comparable replacement short of getting an undrafted rookie.

Moving Steve McKinney costs us $1.5 million against the cap vs. $1.55 million to keep him, saving us $50k against the cap unless we cut him after June 1, then it could potentially save us more than that against the 2007 cap but cost us something against the 2008 cap.

According to this report, moving Travis Johnson would cost us $5.1 million against the cap vs. $1.5 million to keep, costing us an extra $3.6 million against the cap this year, so it isn't economically feasible to move him this year. This may be incorrect though, as it implies that TJ was signed to a 7 year deal as a rookie which I know isn't allowed now under the new CBA, maybe it was some sort of 4-5 year deal with a team option that we already picked up like David Carr's rookie deal.

Moving Jason Babin costs us almost $2.1 million against the cap vs. $1.4 million to keep him, costing us an extra $700k against the cap unless we cut him after June 1.

As of right now it estimates we have $13.3 million left in cap room, although they can't know for sure as they don't know all the exact dollar figures on these things and don't know how much dead cap we still have from Walker, Wade, and Robaire.

Our rookies last year cost us approximately $7 million against the cap last year, and that's with the #1 overall pick, so this year's draft picks should likely cost us in the area of $5.5-6 million against our 2007 salary cap, which if everything else goes unchanged that leaves us with an estimated $8 million or so in cap room to resign our free agents and go after everyone else, which isn't a ton of room but with some smart negotiations and contract structurings (i.e. delayed roster bonuses, back-loading the contracts some, etc. that delay the bulk of the cap hits) we should be able to be pretty competitive for a decent amount of free agents, plus there are a few guys on our team that we can cut and open up a decent amount of cap room.

Hope that clears things up some.

Kaiser Toro
02-01-2007, 07:45 AM
Moving David Carr would cost us $4 million (the remaining unamortized portion of his signing bonus). If we cut him now or trade him anytime then that $4 million goes against our 2007 salary cap, which would save us $3.25 million against our cap since he is currently going to cost us $7.25 million if he stays. However, we have to pay someone to replace him, and Jake Plummer or someone of that caliber could easily want $3 million or more which would negate that freed cap room. If we cut him after June 1 then we can put however much of that we want on the 2007 cap (within some sort of limit) and the remaining part on the 2008 cap, which would save us cap space in 2007 but cost us cap space in 2008.

Thanks for spelling out the whole matter MK. I just do not understand why we people are so caught up in replacing him when Kubiak has gone with two QBs in the past and both of those QBs are his additions. The 3.25m savings that we incur IS the great thing about dumping Carr as we can then spend more on FA in areas of concern such as the secondary. The passing game cannot get worse, but we can pay less.

aj.
02-01-2007, 08:00 AM
If we cut him after June 1 ...

Or if you designate him/them (up to two players) as post-June 1 cuts prior to the start of the league year on or about March 1, you can cut him/them pre Mar. 1 and still gain the post-June 1 benefit.


Our rookies last year cost us approximately $7 million against the cap last year, and that's with the #1 overall pick, so this year's draft picks should likely cost us in the area of $5.5-6 million against our 2007 salary cap,

The Texans rookie pool in '06 (for the draft picks) was $5.39 million.

GP
02-01-2007, 10:10 AM
Math sucks.

:bubble:

HOU-TEX
02-01-2007, 10:26 AM
Moving David Carr would cost us $4 million (the remaining unamortized portion of his signing bonus). If we cut him now or trade him anytime then that $4 million goes against our 2007 salary cap, which would save us $3.25 million against our cap since he is currently going to cost us $7.25 million if he stays. However, we have to pay someone to replace him, and Jake Plummer or someone of that caliber could easily want $3 million or more which would negate that freed cap room. If we cut him after June 1 then we can put however much of that we want on the 2007 cap (within some sort of limit) and the remaining part on the 2008 cap, which would save us cap space in 2007 but cost us cap space in 2008.

Similarly, moving Domanick Williams costs us $3.9 million against the cap, all of that in 2007 if we trade him or cut him before June 1. That would save us $740k against the cap in 2007 since he is currently going to cost us $4.64 million, although it would free us from any salary cap obligations to him in 2008 and beyond. If we cut him after June 1 (the most likely option if they are going to move him) then we can put however much of that we want against the 2007 cap, the rest against the 2008 cap. If we cut him somewhere in the training camp area, we'd already know if his knee is going to hold up (remove the guessing on that) plus we should have already signed our draft prospects and free agents so we'd know how much cap room we'd still have and need to leave for the 2007 year. Then we can put as much as possible on the 2007 cap to get it out of the way since we already have our roster in place (leaving a little room for emergency signings when people get injured) and leave as much room as possible on the 2008 cap.

As for Seth Payne, moving him costs us $2.5 million against this year's cap vs. the $4.325 he's scheduled to cost, thus saving us $1.8 million. If we cut him after June 1 we can delay some of that cap hit to the 2008 season, saving us cap space this year but costing us cap space next year.

Moving Zach Wiegert costs us $2.5 million vs. $3.125 million to keep him, so that saves us $625k this year.
.


Geesh, where do y'all get this info? Much appreciated! This kind of info would make one think he could run the team. lol

IMO, the 4 players above might not be with us come next season. Not just because of the cap savings, but performance alone. I like Payne and hate to see him go, but injuries and age are creeping up on him. I'd keep him if he'd agree to restructure his contract. From what I hear the guy's a workhorse and his fellow teamates like him. Thanks again:shades:

threetoedpete
02-01-2007, 01:58 PM
Thanks for spelling out the whole matter MK. I just do not understand why we people are so caught up in replacing him when Kubiak has gone with two QBs in the past and both of those QBs are his additions. The 3.25m savings that we incur IS the great thing about dumping Carr as we can then spend more on FA in areas of concern such as the secondary. The passing game cannot get worse, but we can pay less.

Yes but the thing of it is to get to the "savings" you gotta take the cap hit. If Weiget and Payne are done, and You move DC also...that's twelve million...now......before you get to your savings KT. It took 5.39 to sign the draft choices last year. Ok we're out of the #1 slot, but that number isn't going down so much that you can absorb every hit we're talking about here. See what I'm saying ? Befor you hit your "savings"...there are "real time" cap blows which must be absorbed....this year. I dunno how they're going to do it and have some money in the bank for emergencies...this season. Explain it to me KT ?

MorKnolle
02-01-2007, 06:41 PM
Yes but the thing of it is to get to the "savings" you gotta take the cap hit. If Weiget and Payne are done, and You move DC also...that's twelve million...now......before you get to your savings KT. It took 5.39 to sign the draft choices last year. Ok we're out of the #1 slot, but that number isn't going down so much that you can absorb every hit we're talking about here. See what I'm saying ? Befor you hit your "savings"...there are "real time" cap blows which must be absorbed....this year. I dunno how they're going to do it and have some money in the bank for emergencies...this season. Explain it to me KT ?

Just to try to clear this up since I'm not sure if you're catching it regarding David Carr. If Carr is on the roster this coming season then he takes up $7.25 million of our salary cap room. If we move him then that $7.25 million is no longer on our cap and we take a $4 million cap hit for the remaining portion of his bonus, so moving Carr would give us an extra $3.25 million in cap room for 2007, potentially more than that if we cut him after June 1, so with Carr and a couple of the other guys we can actually gain cap room by moving a few of these guys, although you do have to consider the cost of bringing someone else in to replace them on the roster which would in most cases eliminate the economical piont in dumping these guys, but if we're bringing in equal or better players to replace them in the process then it would be worth it.

Or if you designate him/them (up to two players) as post-June 1 cuts prior to the start of the league year on or about March 1, you can cut him/them pre Mar. 1 and still gain the post-June 1 benefit.

The Texans rookie pool in '06 (for the draft picks) was $5.39 million.

Good find on the rookie pool number, houstonprofootball had taken down their 2006 cap figures so I couldn't check up on the exact value there. As for the pre-June 1 designations, do they still have that option this year or was that a one-time deal last year? I thought I had remembered hearing that last year was the only time they were going to have that exception available, but I could be wrong on that. If that's the case then we could release one or two of these guys before June 1 and use this designation on them to help clear up cap room on the 2007 salary cap, but doing so would reduce our cap room for 2008, so they will have to be mindful of that.

Kaiser Toro
02-01-2007, 07:26 PM
As for the pre-June 1 designations, do they still have that option this year or was that a one-time deal last year? I thought I had remembered hearing that last year was the only time they were going to have that exception available, but I could be wrong on that. If that's the case then we could release one or two of these guys before June 1 and use this designation on them to help clear up cap room on the 2007 salary cap, but doing so would reduce our cap room for 2008, so they will have to be mindful of that.

I recall it being a one year deal as well.

aj.
02-01-2007, 08:57 PM
As for the pre-June 1 designations, do they still have that option this year or was that a one-time deal last year? I thought I had remembered hearing that last year was the only time they were going to have that exception available...
I recall it being a one year deal as well.

Read Article XXIV, Section 7 of the CBA. It's good until at least 2010.

The Texans used that provision on Gary Walker last year

Good find on the rookie pool number, houstonprofootball had taken down their 2006 cap figures so I couldn't check up on the exact value there..

It wasn't really a 'find.' I wrote a few cap related articles last year so the info happened to be readily available.

hpf doesn't show rookie pool numbers on their cap page -- they carry estimates of actuals. So you wouldn't have found the $5.39 number on their cap page. They might have talked about it in an archived article or something...

MorKnolle
02-01-2007, 09:00 PM
Read Section 7 of Article XXIV in the CBA.


Where do you go about reading the CBA?

Kaiser Toro
02-01-2007, 09:30 PM
Where do you go about reading the CBA?

http://nflpa.org/CBA/CBA.aspx

edo783
02-01-2007, 09:42 PM
Geeezzz, that stuff is more effective than Ambian.

threetoedpete
02-02-2007, 01:33 PM
I found it. But it's like reading Greek. Everything is on pages 64 through 68. One last thing...kill all the lawyers.

Wolf
02-03-2007, 01:47 PM
geeze we need to have an expanion team join the nfl so maybe they can take some of these players (like we did for the Jets and Jags)