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Ali4Real
01-28-2007, 10:43 AM
Personally I don't want the Texans to draft a running back, what I would like to see is the Texans drafting Leon Hall or LaMarr Woodley. Maybe Frank Okam or Levi Brown would be a nice fit on our roster. What do you think?



http://www.molophoto.com/res/ClipsWebsite/clips008.jpg

LaMar Woodley






http://www.noramsports.com/news/BigTen/Football/Michigan/Photo/LHall1.jpg

Leon Hall




http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/wp/Football/092205_rice/05.okam.rice.800x600.jpg

Frank Okam




http://media.scout.com/media/image/21/217092.jpg

Dr. Toro
01-28-2007, 10:48 AM
Why go with Peterson? He's the best RB prospect since Ricky Williams and Edgerrrin James. He'd be an instant success, with the only knock on him being a history of injuries that limited his carries in college. Furthermore, he'd give the fan base of the Texans something to rally around and a playmaker to enjoy watching. After all the defensive 1st and 2nd rounders, Mario, Demeco, Dunta, TJ, Babin, I think the fans would respond pretty well to an offensive player. There is merit in that, and ultimately you've got to invest high picks for skill players.

Okam is going back to school. Texas breeds DTs (Rogers and Hampton) and Okam will be an excellent pro too. Probably a top 15 pick next year.

threetoedpete
01-28-2007, 10:50 AM
Can't argue with any of those. Nelson/Landry guys and Peterson guys have points also. I believe Petie is the problem. C.C. Brown is just a guy playing out of position. He's a SS. So is Landry. But the moment they draft Landry , if they draft him, he'll be the best safty on the roster. Levi is a "texans" kinda guy who fills a five year old hole that's all. The first words out of his mouth yesterday in his sidelines interveiw were "Yes Sir". Sherman will get that guy mean enough. He dominated yesterday in that senior bowl game. And history shows guys who dominate in that game are usually prety good pros.

brewhaus
01-28-2007, 10:54 AM
I agree. We need serious help on our lines (both of 'em) and there are some quality wide bodies in the draft this year.
AP would be a great addition to the team but with so many other areas that need attention now, I believe the Texans can survive another year with the running backs they have now.

LoneStarState
01-28-2007, 10:58 AM
I agree. We need serious help on our lines (both of 'em) and there are some quality wide bodies in the draft this year.
AP would be a great addition to the team but with so many other areas that need attention now, I believe the Texans can survive another year with the running backs they have now.

OL can be addressed in Free Agency. If a standout RB is available, they should take him.

threetoedpete
01-28-2007, 11:09 AM
OL can be addressed in Free Agency. If a standout RB is available, they should take him.

Isn't that what we've done for five years ? My book says that hasn't worked out to well. No if they want to fix what has been broken for five years...Levi Brown is the pick. Spencer back or not.

To answer the orginal question: So we can save face because we didn't take the media's consesus picks for us in '07 ? He's not Reggie Bush , but he is a franchise back. Therefore, All Day is the guy.

First the lines. Then the QB...then the Elite Wide out. then the franchise back.

brewhaus
01-28-2007, 11:11 AM
OL can be addressed in Free Agency. If a standout RB is available, they should take him.

I have seen several mock drafts and they sure do lean toward what you are saying. They show Houston taking Adrian Peterson in the 8 spot. Me being an armature in a world of professionals tends to believe that is what will happen. But I have heard there are concerns with Petersons stamina and being prone to injury. If we get him I hope that is not the case.

threetoedpete
01-28-2007, 11:21 AM
I have seen several mock drafts and they sure do lean toward what you are saying. They show Houston taking Adrian Peterson in the 8 spot. Me being an armature in a world of professionals tends to believe that is what will happen. But I have heard there are concerns with Petersons stamina and being prone to injury. If we get him I hope that is not the case.

You are no more amature than the rest of us. Rep your way for being honest. I agree. Brown is the logical choice in my book from a football stand point. All day is going to struggle in '07 untill we get to the '08 draft. One thing is for sure behind the five we got now, or any free agents they may possibly add, we're going to find out about your duriblity issues early and often if we pick the guy.

brewhaus
01-28-2007, 11:31 AM
You are no more amature than the rest of us. Rep your way for being honest. I agree. Brown is the logical choice in my book from a football stand point. All day is going to struggle in '07 untill we get to the '08 draft. One thing is for sure behind the five we got now, or any free agents they may possibly add, we're going to find out about your duriblity issues early and often if we pick the guy.

I guess the problem I have with a running back "right now" is that I think the game is won or lost in the trenches. A good O line makes mediocre running backs good, and good running backs great. A good O line instills big time confidence.....something the Texans sorely need. IMO the Texans can not go wrong with drafting the most athletic O Lineman available, a least in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, if not in the 1st round. After that, or D secondary needs serious consideration. :twocents:

kastofsna
01-28-2007, 11:46 AM
the knocks on peterson are typical pre-draft talk. in reality, peterson is an elite talent and one of the best pure runners to enter the draft in the last 20 years. if he's there at #8, you'd be foolish not to draft him, far more foolish than passing on reggie bush.

Titan "Tack" Fan
01-28-2007, 12:22 PM
Why go with Peterson? He's the best RB prospect since Ricky Williams and Edgerrrin James.

I'm guessing you aren't counting a guy named Reggie Bush

gg no re
01-28-2007, 12:33 PM
Reggie was the best multi-purpose threat since Dante Hall.

But hey! At least no one's acting insane and saying, "AP's a once-in-a-lifetime back!"

Have they?

Ryan
01-28-2007, 12:34 PM
I'm guessing you aren't counting a guy named Reggie Bush

bush=slot receiver/decoy

Ole Miss Texan
01-28-2007, 12:43 PM
We do have so many holes we need to fill there is a valid arguement for and against every person we need to consider.

RB-Adrian Peterson is easily the fan favorite and with good reason. While the RB is in desperate need of a starter and playmaker it isn't our biggest need. if Adrian is not selected when we're up...I say we need to draft him. (Det. and Cle are the two most likely to select him) Cle may even trade down with Minn...and still snag Peterson so the vikes can take CJ. He is a powerful runner with quicker speed than a lot of people give him credit for. he's a true running back that we need. bush had a lot of hype and he's a playmaking machine....but don't kid yourself by saying he's the best running back in 20 years....AP is more along those lines...Bush is better than anyone else w/ his versatility..but not rb.

OL-Everyone knows Joe Thomas will be gone before us..he won't make it past Arizona. Levi Brown is the guy that has really improved his status but is he worth a top ten pick..he's trying to make that case at least. Arizona sure needs some help but would selecting him #5 be too high? Levi instantly starts and would give us a legit LT for pretty much the first time in our history. There is no telling what is going to come about w/ Spencer and kubiak has said we cannot go on waiting on our injured players to get better...see Domanick...

DL-While everyone is clamoring about how we cannot spend yet another 1st rounder on the DLine..they have a good point. But when you have only one of those picks starting and the other two on the edge of getting released, it still means we have a problem. Those were mistakes from the past regime and should have no effect on what needs to be done by this current one, they have come in take take care of the problems..most of those on the DL and OL. (Alan Branch and Amobi Okoye are the two best DT. Okoye has impressed all during the past week and is challenging branch for the 1st one taken. We need help here and they could be the bpa. Gaines Adams and Jamaal Anderson are the two DE's worthy of a top 10. They could both come in and put instant pressuer on the qb's, their knock is that they arent top 10 strong against the run.)

LB-well we know Demeco might as well move into reliant stadium because I dont think Kubes or McNair will EVER let this guy go. He's an OLB that stepped up with our need because we dont' have a true Mike. Demeco thought otherwise. A lot of people don't want him moved outside, but that is something the coaches will play with during offseason to see how he would do when we have a legit mike. Keeping him at mike is fine by me though. The media has finally given Patrick Willis the respect he deserves. After the senior bowl..he'll go top 15 most likely. I would love for us to trade down a few spots and select him to play next to Ryans but now I'm sure we'd miss out on him w/ SF, Buf, St. Louis, and Car all selecting there together. Plus we have more pressing needs than lb imo.

CB-ovbisous hole that has to be addressed. leon hall has been the longtime #1 in the draft...if he's still it. i've seen him slipping in a lot of mocks so i'm not sure if he's still worth it at #8? y'all may know more than me. having someone opposite dunta is crucial to surving against peyton...and now vince.

FS- we need to have a true FS...preferably a ball hawker that will get some int., pdef, and just flat out not let lee evans and marvin harrison embarass the hell out of us. LaRon Landry and Reggie Nelson are the two top in the draft. I'd be happy with either...esp if we trade down. Atl will most likely take one..so we could miss out on both if we trade. We don't need to be reminded everytime that we play the colts twice a year but we will win more with an imroved pass defense. we will have a hard team EVER beating them again if CC and Faggins are still starting at the positions.

That's kinda my take on each postion that i feel is important. I guess I'm a little easier to please than most fans but we're guaranteed to get a guy I like at 8. The FO is the ones that decide what is best for this team for next season and 10. i'll let them make that call but I know we're guaranteed to be able to select from a few...

Peterson, Levi, Jamaal, Gaines, Amobi, Branch, Patrick, Hall, Landry, Nelson that's not including the two qb's that prob. will be taken.

My question is this Quinn could very well slip...just as easy as Peterson can to us. Who would move up to get him if he fell to us? Miami has the next pick so they might take him..could carolina jump miami and snag him? delhomme has 2-3 yeas left on his contract i believe. if kubiak selects either quinn or russell, they will make a believer out of me. we have a lot of questions about brady..and russel could be the perfect guy to sit and learn for a year, step in and kick ass. if they take one that says a lot with as much kubiak knows, so while its not something i really want right now..there is an arguemnt (besides people saying oh carr sucks)

We play the saints next season. i would like nothing more (well a W would do but..) than the announcers talking about how we passed on bush to get mario. that mario is taking form and being dominant. With the selection of Adrian peterson they get their franchise back. someone who can run over people and around and fits the team a lot better than bush would have. looks like both teams come out ahead of where they were and thats what we want. peterson is better for the texans than bush, but bush is better for the saints than peterson.

threetoedpete
01-28-2007, 01:07 PM
Won't let me give you rep again, but you pretty much hit it Old Miss. "Atta boy" will have to do. I agee with that post. Well done.

Hottoddie
01-28-2007, 01:19 PM
I was pushing for AP last year when everyone was saying Bush was the one. I believe AP gives us everything Bush would have, but he goes one better. AP can run between the tackles. Imagine the luck if he's there when we pick.

In my opinion AP is DD/DW with break away speed. Adding AP would immediately take pressure off of Carr & should open up our passing game. Which, would in turn, help our defense. Hmmmm, what a dilemma. :D

However, a year has come & gone & I'm starting to waffle on the pick again. With the semi-emergence of Chris Taylor (albeit, against an inferior defense & only one game), the possible return of DD/DW, & a shot at getting Michael Bush in the 2nd round, I'm wondering if it might be wiser to choose another player that can fill one of our other holes.

I really like AP & would be giddy if we picked him, but with players like Nelson, Landry, Levi, Branch, Okoye, Gaines, Hall, & Revis possibly available at #8, I'd have to take a long look at a different strategy. Trading down would have to be taken very seriously at this point.

Toro
01-28-2007, 01:22 PM
I'm a Penn State Alumni and a Nittany Lion fan, but there's no way in HELL Levi Brown should be a top 10 pick.

Needless to say, if it comes down to Adrian Peterson or Levi Brown, bite the bullet, take Peterson and go after Joe Staley of Central Michigan in Round 2. You'll get the same production.

Ole Miss Texan
01-28-2007, 01:30 PM
I'm a Penn State Alumni and a Nittany Lion fan, but there's no way in HELL Levi Brown should be a top 10 pick.

Needless to say, if it comes down to Adrian Peterson or Levi Brown, bite the bullet, take Peterson and go after Joe Staley of Central Michigan in Round 2. You'll get the same production.

I'm really bummed i didn't get to watch the senior bowl or any of the practices through the week, but from what I've heard levi brown really did good and sounded like staley was really getting handled.

Then again i don't know who was going against them and havn't seen either play ever.

I do think it might go a long way to go the Jets way. if we trade down and pick up levi brown. then in the 2nd grab up Ryan Kalil. that would sure help our oline but i hate avoiding everything else.

LoneStarState
01-28-2007, 01:33 PM
Isn't that what we've done for five years ? My book says that hasn't worked out to well. No if they want to fix what has been broken for five years...Levi Brown is the pick. Spencer back or not.

We've also tried running back by committee also... how's that worked out for us? The Texans are going to have to get talented playmakers at the skill positions on both sides of the ball.

Toro
01-28-2007, 01:36 PM
I'm really bummed i didn't get to watch the senior bowl or any of the practices through the week, but from what I've heard levi brown really did good and sounded like staley was really getting handled.

Then again i don't know who was going against them and havn't seen either play ever.

I do think it might go a long way to go the Jets way. if we trade down and pick up levi brown. then in the 2nd grab up Ryan Kalil. that would sure help our oline but i hate avoiding everything else.

I'm not against the idea of trading down, and if that is the case, Levi Brown would certainly be the ideal choice of mine.

Only problem is, only team in Round 1 that has multiple picks, or has picks that would be worth looking into is New England, and by the time the pick they acquired from Seattle rolls around, Brown will be gone. Then again, I've seen mocks where Levi's fallen to the second round.. When you consider Winston Justice was considered a better pro prospect than Brown, and he fell in to the second round, the chance of Brown is there.

Any idea where Justin Blalock's gonna fall? I've seen mocks where he's fallen to the low first, I've seen similar mocks that have him going in the mid-to-high first. If Houston could somehow get AP and get Blalock, I'd be pretty happy with that draft.

dat_boy_yec
01-28-2007, 01:37 PM
You are no more amature than the rest of us. Rep your way for being honest. I agree. Brown is the logical choice in my book from a football stand point. All day is going to struggle in '07 untill we get to the '08 draft. One thing is for sure behind the five we got now, or any free agents they may possibly add, we're going to find out about your duriblity issues early and often if we pick the guy.

Why do you say All Day will struggle with the Texans in 07'? If the guy is an elite talent like everyone makes him out to be, add to that we got a good # of hundred yard rushing games towards the end of the season, and our starters should be returning to the line up healthy. I simply have to ask why you say that. I'm not trying to rag on you or anything. I can buy the arguments for taking o-line with the first. I'm just asking.

Dr. Toro
01-28-2007, 02:35 PM
the knocks on peterson are typical pre-draft talk. in reality, peterson is an elite talent and one of the best pure runners to enter the draft in the last 20 years. if he's there at #8, you'd be foolish not to draft him, far more foolish than passing on reggie bush.

That's right... and when I mentioned Williams and James I should have mentioned LT. Guys like Peterson and LT come around every five years or so. Durability isn't a major concern unless the doctors say so.

ESAD2-14
01-28-2007, 03:07 PM
I'm guessing you aren't counting a guy named Reggie Bush

LaDainian Tomlinson?? This guy came out after Williams and James.

Texans would go with AP because they need a running back. Also I think the fans are wanting a playmaker outside of AJ on the offense. Watching the offense last season IMO was like watching someone rake finger nails across a chalk board. Not good.

kastofsna
01-28-2007, 03:08 PM
texans fans should be THRILLED of his injury concerns in fact. if he 100% healthy he's a top 3 pick. now you guys have a crack at him.

threetoedpete
01-28-2007, 03:11 PM
Why do you say All Day will struggle with the Texans in 07'? If the guy is an elite talent like everyone makes him out to be, add to that we got a good # of hundred yard rushing games towards the end of the season, and our starters should be returning to the line up healthy. I simply have to ask why you say that. I'm not trying to rag on you or anything. I can buy the arguments for taking o-line with the first. I'm just asking.

The reasons in my book that we had two consecutive wins at the end of the season are because the line functioned better under a scaled down play book. We caught a team with severely injured defensive squad , and the youngsters on the line played a very nice game.

1. scaled down play book. The week Spencer went down and one of the coaches came on here and did his bit about the splits and why we weren't running a true variation of the Denver offense, that should of been red flares to every one. We cannot run a spread play. Our QB cannot take a five and seven drop. And every short yardage play was an adventure. Our oline was and is still taking smallish splits. Kubiak scaled the offense back to match the skills of what he had on the offensive line. I don't know how much of the play book went out the window . But a lot of it did. Kubiack needs weapons befor he can run his offense. And by weapons I'm saying a major upgrade(s) along the line. Our tallent is so retarded that to go out and do what Denver does by taking o-linman late is pretty silly in my book.

2. I'll believe it when Spencer bangs in the first day of cap. One guy says he's already doing light running. Someone else says he sees him at a game...with a noticable Limp. Which is it ? And do you gamble with "it" and a scaled down play book for '07 ? I dunno...you tell me ? What I do know is there are only two true OLT pospects in this draft who are locked loaded and ready to go. Chacter wise...Levi Brown fits. Is he Joe Thomas...NO. Is he the second comming of Pace or Ogden...NO. What he is and will be the moment we draft him is the best OLT on the team. And perhaps, the best lineman in our conference in two seasons. His up side is hugh. He has warts no doubt. But Levi opens up the play book once again. If we have him, we can move Spencer to the right side and not force the wear on his leg. That is he won't have to come back from a serious injury before he's ready.

3. Overlooking the o-line has gotten us a 2-14 and a six and 10 in two consecutive years. To project that all day will come in here, inspite of his marvelous potential and effectively fix the lack of tallent on the o-line is kinda like putting the cart before the horse as they say. You're saying 1. Winston is going to lock down RT at a high level and 2. Spencer will be locked and loaded for game one. Both of those things are far from a done deal at this point for what we know for a fact. So basically you've got All day operating behind the same line as we had at the end of last season who are playing out of a scaled down play book, and scaled down splits. I.E. There better be a lot of banged up defenses on the schedule starting out. Or...'07 will go down the tubes PDQ. Look at our schedule for '07 and tell me honestly, what do you feel the prospect of us going with what we have now on the o-line and with all day are for posting an 8-8 season ?

I'm not so certain as you all that Peterson's threat of a rushing attack moves the o-line back out to natural Denver splits and jump starts the passing game. What I believe will happen ala L.J. in Kansas City last year... alot of eight and nine in the box...and a lot of frustraion on this board. K.C. had a far better line down the strech than we do and that is with the injuries they got. But the positive in all of that if we do pick All Day and take one again in the kister...the '08 draft is loaded. Sooner or later though...OLT will have to be adressed if we want to be anything other than wanna be's. We wait again fine by me. But one year you're going to have to address it.

Texian
01-28-2007, 05:20 PM
Why do you say All Day will struggle with the Texans in 07'? If the guy is an elite talent like everyone makes him out to be, add to that we got a good # of hundred yard rushing games towards the end of the season, and our starters should be returning to the line up healthy. I simply have to ask why you say that. I'm not trying to rag on you or anything. I can buy the arguments for taking o-line with the first. I'm just asking.

With AP running behind the current Texans line, this might be what you get:

With the addition of a healthy AP playing 16 full games a yr and putting the ball in AP's hands 20 times a game, 320 times a year and using the productivity of the last years Oline play, projecting an aggressive 4.2 ypc for AP is 84 yds per game/1344 yds per yr.

Based on last years numbers, the other backs would get 7 rushing attemps per game or 111 yds a yr at 3.9 ypc is 28 yds per game/433 yds per year. AP's 1344 total yds and the other backs 433 yds comes to 1777 yds per yr.

AP would have given you 5 or 6 yds more per game or 90 additional yds for the year.

Now if you going to say the Oline will be better, which I hope it is, it will also be better for the other backs. If you going to say AP will get better ypc than 4.2, keep in mind that Larry Johnson, Steven Jackson, Deuce McCallister and Tatum Bell all avg 4.4 yds per carry. If you to project 4.8 ypc for AP, thats 1536 yds per year or additional 282 yds to last years total or 17-18 ypg.

I know why Kubiak shys away from RBs in the 1st RD. Now if the FO finds a premier pass rushing DE who combined with Mario will limit opposing QB less than3 seconds to pass, the DE would be a better contribution and impact for the team.

Ole Miss Texan
01-28-2007, 05:38 PM
With AP running behind the current Texans line, this might be what you get:

With the addition of a healthy AP playing 16 full games a yr and putting the ball in AP's hands 20 times a game, 320 times a year and using the productivity of the last years Oline play, projecting an aggressive 4.2 ypc for AP is 84 yds per game/1344 yds per yr.

Based on last years numbers, the other backs would get 7 rushing attemps per game or 111 yds a yr at 3.9 ypc is 28 yds per game/433 yds per year. AP's 1344 total yds and the other backs 433 yds comes to 1777 yds per yr.

AP would have given you 5 or 6 yds more per game or 90 additional yds for the year.

Now if you going to say the Oline will be better, which I hope it is, it will also be better for the other backs. If you going to say AP will get better ypc than 4.2, keep in mind that Larry Johnson, Steven Jackson, Deuce McCallister and Tatum Bell all avg 4.4 yds per carry. If you to project 4.8 ypc for AP, thats 1536 yds per year or additional 282 yds to last years total or 17-18 ypg.

I know why Kubiak shys away from RBs in the 1st RD. Now if the FO finds a premier pass rushing DE who combined with Mario will limit opposing QB less than3 seconds to pass, the DE would be a better contribution and impact for the team.

Very interesting calculations. by those numbers the total extra yards is not impressive. I think there would be more big runs with him than we've seen last season. Yards are one thing but what about time of possession...making those first downs...and touchdowns. While the extra yardage may not be impressive, i refuse to think he wouldn't help us out more than just that. I think he would help a lot more than youre giving him.

Assuming we don't take ap. and they decide they want to do dline. Do you think they would get one of the premier pass rushers? or go with one of the premier tackles. Okoye/Branch ; Anderson/Adams. Assuming they are all 4 there for us what order would you put them in for us to pick>

Texian
01-28-2007, 06:08 PM
Jamaal Anderson or Gaines Adams. Fits more with Kubiak philosphy, strong defense 1st, run the ball, control the clock, controlled passing, go deep when when the D allows it.

Take what you will from Kubiaks end of the season comments on the pass rush:

(on fulfilling the need for pass rushers) “There’s no doubt, we’ve got to find a way to put some pressure on some people. We played a group yesterday that was missing a couple of guards and (defensive coordinator) Richard (Smith) dialed up plenty of zone gods trying to create pressure and that is one glaring thing that I’ve been looking at this morning, comparing progress, where there was progress and some things we didn’t do well. One of the first things that I looked at was the fact that we didn’t pressure the quarterback really well. we’ve got to figure out a way to do that and if we’ve got to be able to do that with four guys in this league if you’re having to dial-up zone dogs and blitz in this league week–in and week-out, specially in our division in my opinion, you’re going to get burned. So we’ve got to find a way to pressure the quarterback with four guys and that will be a big point of emphasis.”

Ole Miss Texan
01-28-2007, 06:40 PM
Yea I remember hearing him say how much more pressure we have to get on the QB from the Line. we can't be blitzing LB's every play in order to get that pressure.

nunusguy
01-28-2007, 07:05 PM
"backs are a dime a dozen"

Ole Miss Texan
01-28-2007, 07:12 PM
"backs are a dime a dozen"

True...but Peterson is worth at least a dollar.

tulexan
01-28-2007, 07:17 PM
"backs are a dime a dozen"

Then why are almost half of the starting running backs in the NFL first round picks?

brewhaus
01-28-2007, 07:25 PM
Here's a little "first round running back" tidbit I just ran across:
Top RB prospect accused of spousal violence… California junior RB Marshawn Lynch, one of the top 1-2 prospects at the position for the 2007 draft, has reportedly been accused of domestic violence and sexual assault by a former girlfriend. Lynch has denied the allegations through his lawyer. In the complaint, the woman alleges Lynch choked, slapped and sexually assaulted her in Oakland in December. Local police are investigating.

Sounds like Marshawn may be a candiate to play with the Bengals, doesn't it? Of course at this point, it's all "hear-say".


http://www.gbnreport.com/

HomeBred_Texan
01-28-2007, 07:28 PM
Personally, I can't beleive we as Texan's fans are even having this conversation. After 5 years of a flat poor running game, looks like everyone would be jumping on the AP boat. Draft Defense? Are you serious? Yea, let's draft yet another stinking D lineman... See where my money goes...

Texian
01-28-2007, 07:31 PM
Personally, I can't beleive we as Texan's fans are even having this conversation. After 5 years of a flat poor running game, looks like everyone would be jumping on the AP boat. Draft Defense? Are you serious? Yea, let's draft yet another stinking D lineman... See where my money goes...

The running game was prime when DD was healthy (how quickly we forget) and what did that get ya for your money?

dat_boy_yec
01-28-2007, 07:51 PM
The reasons in my book that we had two consecutive wins at the end of the season are because the line functioned beter under a scaled down play book. We caught a team with severely injured defensive squad , and the youngsters on the line played a very nice game.

1. scaled down play book. The week Spencer went down and one of the coaches came on here and did his bit about the splits and why we weren't running a true variation of the Denver offense, that should of been red flares to every one. We cannot run a spread play. Our QB cannot take a five and seven drop. And every short yardage play was an adventure. Our oline was and is still taking smallish splits. Kubiak scaled the offense back to match the skills of what he had on the offensive line. I don't know how much of the play book went out the window . But a lot of it did. Kubiack needs weapons befor he can run his offense. And by weapons I'm saying a major upgrade(s) along the line. Our tasllent is so retarded that to go out and do what Denver does by taking o-linman late is pretty silly in my book.

2. I'll believe it when Spencer bangs in the first day of cap. One guy says he's already doing light running. Someone else says he sees him at a game...with a noticable Limp. Which is it ? And do you gamble with "it" and a scaled down play book for '07 ? I dunno...you tell me. What I do know is there are only two true OLT pospects in this draft who are locked loaded and ready to go. Chacter wise...Levi Brown fits. Is he Joe Thomas...NO. Is he the second comming of Pace or Orland...NO. What he is and will be the moment we draft him is the best OLT on the team. And perhaps, the best lineman in our conference in two seasons. His up side is hugh. He has warts no doubt. But Levi opens up the play book once again. If we have him, we can move Spencer to the right side and not force the wear on his leg. That is he won't have to come back from a serious injury before he's ready.

3. Overlooking the o-line has gotten us a 2-14 and a six and 10 in two consecutive years. To project that all day will come in here, inspite of his marvelous potential and effectively fix the lack of tallent on the o-line is kinda like putting the cart before the horse as they say. You're saying 1. Winston is going to lock down RT at a high level and 2. Spencer will be locked and loaded for game one. Both of those things are far from a done deal at this point for what we know for a fact. So basically you've got All day operating behind the same line as we had at the end of last season who are playing out of a scaled down play book, and scaled down splits. I.E. There better be a lot of banged up defenses on the schedule starting out. Or...'07 will go down the tubes PDQ. Look at our sedule for '07 and tell me honestly, what do you feel the prospect of us going with what we have now on the o-line and with all day are for posting an 8-8 season ?

I'm not so certain as you all that Peterson's threat of a rushing attack moves the o-line back out to natural Denver splits and jump starts the passing game. What I believe will happen ala L.J. in Kansas City last year... alot of eight and nine in the box...and a lot of frustraion on this board. K.C. had a far beter line down the strech than we do and that is with the injuries they got. But the positive in all of that if we do pick All Day and take one again in the kister...the '08 draft is loaded. Sooner or later though...OLT will have to be adressed if we want to be anything other than wanna be's. We wait again fine by me. But one year you're going to have to address it.

1. You made a great case for Spencer's impact on our team. Now LT is the only real position that regularly goes in the first rd. However you can usually find serviceable talent in the second rd. and later.

2. Again good job in stating a case for taking a lineman.

3. I disagree that we overlooked the o-line last yr. We drafted 2 linemen and brought in an x-pro-bowl center. Also brought in a good # of other FA's. Also I disagree that that is the reason for our record. Had we had our starting line all yr. the tune would be different. Another mistake which compounded our problems was that we let go the LT that was competing for the starting spot in pre-season for the back-up swing tackle. Maybe had we kept the other LT the drop off in talent wouldn't have been as dramatic nor the scaling back of the offense as significant.

Having commented on all that, you never answered the question I posed. Okay keep in mind our line this season produced a 180 some yd game and another 190 some yd. game. Now they've had a few bad rushing showings, but they've demontrated they can support a rushing attack. I never mentioned the splits or pass protection. (neither did you really, but I'm throwing it out there before it does get brought up.) What I'm asking is why do you think All Day will struggle in our offense? Say hypothetically, we get Spencer back and add quality depth on the o-line and Winston does step up. Is there any real reason to believe that All Day would struggle? Why in your opinion do you think he'll struggle? That's all I'm asking.

dat_boy_yec
01-28-2007, 08:10 PM
With AP running behind the current Texans line, this might be what you get:

With the addition of a healthy AP playing 16 full games a yr and putting the ball in AP's hands 20 times a game, 320 times a year and using the productivity of the last years Oline play, projecting an aggressive 4.2 ypc for AP is 84 yds per game/1344 yds per yr.

Based on last years numbers, the other backs would get 7 rushing attemps per game or 111 yds a yr at 3.9 ypc is 28 yds per game/433 yds per year. AP's 1344 total yds and the other backs 433 yds comes to 1777 yds per yr.

AP would have given you 5 or 6 yds more per game or 90 additional yds for the year.

Now if you going to say the Oline will be better, which I hope it is, it will also be better for the other backs. If you going to say AP will get better ypc than 4.2, keep in mind that Larry Johnson, Steven Jackson, Deuce McCallister and Tatum Bell all avg 4.4 yds per carry. If you to project 4.8 ypc for AP, thats 1536 yds per year or additional 282 yds to last years total or 17-18 ypg.

I know why Kubiak shys away from RBs in the 1st RD. Now if the FO finds a premier pass rushing DE who combined with Mario will limit opposing QB less than3 seconds to pass, the DE would be a better contribution and impact for the team.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. YPC is an important stat, but so is the workload. LJ was among the leading rushers chews up alot of clock and really helped his team after a slow start. Having said that your telling me that having a reliable RB who works with the offense week in and week out doesn't help the offense. We alternated RB's alot this season and had very little continuity. Considering that our offense in so dependent on the run I would think a solid RB would be up there.

David's Busted Carr
01-28-2007, 08:20 PM
"backs are a dime a dozen"

Average backs are a dime a dozen.

SPECIAL backs are not... take the top 4 backs in the NFL today.

Tomlinson, Alexander, L.Johnson, S.Jackson all 1st round picks...

I put AP in that category... WHY? Because he is a true FEATURE back that can carry the ball 25+ times per game and "take over a game".

Now Marshawn Lynch I agree with you, I don't see the same potential in him.

Texian
01-28-2007, 08:25 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. YPC is an important stat, but so is the workload. LJ was among the leading rushers chews up alot of clock and really helped his team after a slow start. Having said that your telling me that having a reliable RB who works with the offense week in and week out doesn't help the offense. We alternated RB's alot this season and had very little continuity. Considering that our offense in so dependent on the run I would think a solid RB would be up there.

I don't think you are taking into account the very first line of the post.
"With AP running behind the current Texans line, this might be what you get"

Let me give you another example, AP might be the Edge in Indy playing for Oklahoma but he he might turn into the Edge of Arizona running behind the Texans line.

infantrycak
01-28-2007, 08:28 PM
Why go with Peterson? He's the best RB prospect since Ricky Williams and Edgerrrin James.

Nice hyperbole.

Signed--LT

Dr. Toro
01-28-2007, 09:04 PM
Nice hyperbole.

Signed--LT

That's right... and when I mentioned Williams and James I should have mentioned LT. Guys like Peterson and LT come around every five years or so. Durability isn't a major concern unless the doctors say so.

Tough crowd today. eh.

threetoedpete
01-28-2007, 11:48 PM
True...but Peterson is worth at least a dollar.

I'll agree with this. Damn shame all the juniors went back this year. Again I have no problem with them taking All Day, I'm just not ready to dance in the isles yet and say we'll make the play offs if we draft him. Under beerlovers new mock, if both OLTs are off the board, I'd have no problem with the pick. Just think it would be foolish to throw 13-3 projections in the bull pen if we do. We're a long way tallent wise from catching the colts.

Please_Evolve
01-29-2007, 12:43 AM
I don't think you are taking into account the very first line of the post.
"With AP running behind the current Texans line, this might be what you get"

Let me give you another example, AP might be the Edge in Indy playing for Oklahoma but he he might turn into the Edge of Arizona running behind the Texans line.


Spot on.

kastofsna
01-29-2007, 05:30 PM
But guys, CAN Peterson work in our system? Don't forget that their have been running backs who were phenoms in college who were flat out suckers in the NFL (i.g. Ki-Jana Carter, Archie Griffin, Ron Dayne???), just wondering?
there have also been runningbacks who were phenoms in college and were great in the NFL.

peterson fits the offense's zone-blocking scheme. he doesn't have great hands and his blocking needs a lot of work, but of course that can be taught.

Texian
01-29-2007, 05:39 PM
But guys, CAN Peterson work in our system? Don't forget that their have been running backs who were phenoms in college who were flat out suckers in the NFL (i.g. Ki-Jana Carter, Archie Griffin, Ron Dayne???), just wondering?

There is a chance he can do for the Texans what the Edge did for Arizona.

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 01:25 AM
There is a chance he can do for the Texans what the Edge did for Arizona.

And there's a chance he's the next Deuce McAllister or LJ or LT or Emmit Smith or ...

That's true of ANYONE you pick. There are no sure things. If you're only going to pick someone you're sure is going to be good, then you won't make any picks at all. Coming into the league, guys like Tony Mandarich, Robert Gallery, Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, etc., all looked like sure things. I mean, iirc,Tony Eason was rated higher than Dan Marino, fer crying out loud.

We've still got a long way to go before the draft. People are going to fall and people are going to shoot up the draft boards. And then there are some teams that are going to make unexpected picks. And this time next year, everyone will be talking about how everyone could miss on this player or that player.

For example, this time last year, I read a mock that had Demeco Ryans in the top 10. Stuff happened and he fell down the charts. "He's too small; he's too slow; blah blah blah." We steal him in the second round.

As much as they try to make it into a science, drafting players is still magic.

So, yeah, Adrian Peterson might be the Edge in Arizona. Or he could be the guy that can make a mediocre line into a group of probowlers. He might suck at the Combine. The doctor's might find some medical conditions and we might pick him up... in the 4th round.

At this point, it's interesting to discuss who's going to draft whom, but it really is just mental masturbation at this point.

Ole Miss Texan
01-30-2007, 01:47 AM
At this point, it's interesting to discuss who's going to draft whom, but it really is just mental masturbation at this point.

hahahahaha

Ole Miss Texan
01-30-2007, 02:07 AM
My roomate told me some interesting things about AP

1700 of his 1925 yards freshman year were made after contact.

85% of his yards in either 'o5 or 'o6 were after contact.

and about 66% of his yards were gained in the 2nd half.

I havn't checked to see if those were accurate but it wouldn't surprise me...can someone fill us in thats a big OU or AP fan out there?

Ole Miss Texan
01-30-2007, 02:27 AM
http://media.putfile.com/AD15

found this on the web. now it took me a few times to see exactly what happened. to make it easier on you. its a fake handoff to adrian peterson...watch that closely....then he races all the way down the field and makes the key block for the TD....you may want to watch it a few times but i thought it was unique and pretty much awesome.

Meloy
01-30-2007, 10:48 AM
IMO it's simple. Thomas not avail @ 8. AP can be. He is a potential "franchise" type back for Texans, based on what we know of his college experience. That is what all players are evaluated on prior to combine and college day efforts. If he looks good at these and is available @our pick, how does McNair justify turning down a franchise back? Bush still leaves a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of fans. Two years in a row? I don't think so Tim.

beerlover
01-30-2007, 12:05 PM
why go with Adrian? well who else is available? is he the absolute bpa? those are questions that will have to be answeared first. will be a draft day decision :ok:

there are also plenty of fits in the latter rounds for Kubiaks system, you know guys that find a seam cut-back run downhill, strong enough & willing to block, then release with soft hands as outlet or short yardage passing situations. I can name at least 3 off the top of my head who could still be there second day -

Dwayne Wright, Fresno State 6000 222 4.65

have not forgotten this impressive young man, would be a great fit for Texans has more speed than DW, bigger and has soft hands. very smart downhill runner between the tackles, excellent moves and finishes plays.

Brian Leonard, Rutgers 6010 224 4.56

excellent blocker, short yardage goal line or otherwise, soft hands & ability to get to the second level. really like his footwork, a solid football player that moves from FB to RB in the NFL, because of that his stock will take some hit.

Jackie Battle, Houston 6020 245 4.74

someone from Houston? maybe. what I like about him is his ability in space to create extra yards, very soft hands. he could also save a roster spot because I could see him playing some TE at least adds depth at two positons, maybe three (RB, FB, TE).

dat_boy_yec
01-30-2007, 03:00 PM
Spot on.

No not really spot on because our current line was missing three starters. Even with 3 starters out we nearly had a 200 yd. game against the Colts. Against the Browns we had an undrafted FA come up 1 yd. shy of 100. Now your telling me that Peterson who's supposed to be a rare back won't be able to outgain our current backs? I'm not saying our line is great or anything, but they are better than avg. at run blocking. Our backs missed a ton of opportunities and left a ton of yardage on the field. Even Kubiak has said as much. Following that logic an upgrade at RB be it All Day or somebody else should get better production. I'm not saying it'll be all we need, but bringing in Peterson or any upgrade at RB should help out a great deal. Am I wrong in this logic?

If I'm right and Peterson is in fact the best back then wouldn't he be the biggest difference maker we could get? If that's so then why should we hesitate in pulling the trigger on him? It's been said that we need linemen to open up holes, but we've had holes open up in our offense. The question should be how successful can we be if we don't have a back that can find those holes.

I haven't watched all of Petersons games, but from what I've seen he's not great at change of direction and the thing we need is someone who can cut it back into the hole. Peterson seems more suited for a power style running system. I could be wrong as I've stated I haven't watched enough of his games to make an accurate assesment, but those are just my thoughts. This is kind of what I was trying to ask, so I'll ask it like this. Does Peterson really fit the Zone blocking scheme?

El Tejano
01-30-2007, 03:12 PM
All I can do is hope that he is gone before we draft or that we don't get a repeat of last year.

Meloy
01-30-2007, 04:03 PM
I think Dayne sometimes had a problem getting through the small holes that were created. IMO Lundy & Gado lacked the power to blast from the grasp of a lineman or linebacker playing up close. AP should not have either problem and will complement these backs & make them even more successful.

real
01-30-2007, 04:29 PM
If Adrian Peterson comes in, it's not going to be "backs"...It's going to be "back"....

If we get A.P...We are going ot have to kiss someone goodbye.

If we draft A.P, out of Dayne, Lundy, Gado, and Taylor who would you want to see on the roster as a compliment to A.P ?

Ole Miss Texan
01-30-2007, 06:24 PM
If Adrian Peterson comes in, it's not going to be "backs"...It's going to be "back"....

If we get A.P...We are going ot have to kiss someone goodbye.

If we draft A.P, out of Dayne, Lundy, Gado, and Taylor who would you want to see on the roster as a compliment to A.P ?

i think you have to keep Dayne on the roster. he has a great attitude here in houston, would be a great back up and short yardage guy even though adrian can run through a lot of people. he gave us his all last season...yadda yadda...i don't see any reason to cut him...he's not expensive.

It really comes down to Lundy, Gado, Taylor, and Williams. Here I'm lost, and quite frankly don't know enough about them to give y'all a worthwile answer. Taylor is pretty quick and seemed to do well that 1 game. Lundy started the year off surprisingly well, Gado didn't do a bad job, and then Domanick. who knows if he'll be back, traded, or most likely cut. i don't know anything about his condition currently and would probably be more expensive than all of these others. i'd be more inclined to cut him since he'd just be a 2nd or most likely 3rd stringer. i'd go with taylor or lundy..

Texas
01-30-2007, 06:45 PM
AP wont be available...simple.

Ryan
01-30-2007, 08:24 PM
ap in the first or michael bush in the 2nd...whichever is fine with me

Mr teX
01-31-2007, 10:13 AM
If Adrian Peterson comes in, it's not going to be "backs"...It's going to be "back"....

If we get A.P...We are going ot have to kiss someone goodbye.

If we draft A.P, out of Dayne, Lundy, Gado, and Taylor who would you want to see on the roster as a compliment to A.P ?

Well, Gado should definitely be gone so i'd probably like to see

Ronnie Dayne, or Maybe Taylor if he can prove he can be steady for us. I think Domanick is done, & Lundy.......... well he was a 6th rounder so we don't have too much invested in him. Maybe drop him on ST somewhere.