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cptnbreakdance
01-27-2007, 12:16 PM
If the Texans want to start gaining respect around the league, they really should be aggressive in their pursuit of the top of the line free agents this year... we are very comfortably under the cap from what I remember. Getting Asante Samuel & Lance Briggs to bolster this defense would make it just scary...

I have a very strong feeling Peterson will be picked by the Browns and we will end up going w/ Reggie Nelson (that is of course if he doesn't just blow people away at the combine and rocket up the boards) Thinking about all those people added to the defense, along with the hiring of Frank Bush, makes me feel sorry for opposing offenses in the years to come.

Dunta_23
01-27-2007, 12:23 PM
We are fairly comfortable under the cap from what Ive read....approx 12 Mil....but Samuel is the # 1 CB on the FA market....most likely asking for a contract in the 50+ Million Range and Briggs is arguable the #1 FA Linebacker on the market and will look for top dollar for his position...Then youve gotta factor in paying for the rookies, re-signing players and adding other FA's at lower level contracts....

Im not against going after either of those guys but to go after both isnt very realistic to me...Although like you said....That Line up would scare offenses

......................Weaver........Maddox......TJ ......Williams

..................Briggs................Ryans..... ...........Greenwood

..........D-Rob............................................... ..............Samuel
...............................Nelson............. .........Earl

gtexan02
01-27-2007, 12:26 PM
We cannot be aggressive in Free Agency because of the following reasons:

#1) We do not have a lot of cap room
#2) Other teams have a TON of cap room
#3) We need to save cap room because we are picking high in the draft, again
#4) We have a lot of dead cap
#5) FAs do not want to play on a losing team unless they are primarily looking for a huge contract
#6) FAs have seen other good players come here and struggle
#7) Briggs will surely be heavily pursued by the Bears to resign

the wonger need food
01-27-2007, 12:48 PM
We're not in good shape at all compared to other teams...

Cap money available

1. San Francisco $42.1M

2. Buffalo $39.7M

3. Arizona $36.7M

4. Tennessee $36M

5. Cleveland $33.3M

6. Minnesota $32.4M

7. (tie)Jacksonville $32M

7. St. Louis $32M

9. New England $30.4M

10. Cincinnati $30.2M

11. New Orleans $29.9M

12. Green Bay $29.5M

13. New York Jets $26.1M

14. San Diego $24.6M

15. Tampa Bay $24.2M

16. Detroit $23.8M

17. Chicago $23.4M

18. Seattle $22.5M

19. Dallas $21.5M

20. Miami $17.8M

21. New York Giants $15.7M

22. Oakland $14.1M

23. Houston $13.3M

24. Atlanta $10M

25. Philadelphia $12.4M

26. Denver $7.6M

27. Kansas City $7M

28. Baltimore $5.7M

29. Indianapolis $4.9M

30. Carolina $3.4M

31. Washington $951,000

32. Pittsburgh $150,000





http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/26/Bucs/For_Bucs__it_s_buyer_.shtml

cptnbreakdance
01-27-2007, 01:39 PM
Oh ok... thanks for posting the cap #rs Wonger... I see what you mean... but in reality, I wouldn't care in the least if 'ole Bob just went for it regardless of cap space... I would look at it like an investment... we have to get rid of the bad contracts we have for mediocre players (thanks Charlie), So why not bite the bullet, take the cap hit from signing these people, let the talent (or lack thereof) that Charlie and Dom left behind fade away, and at the same time put together a core group of players that actually would help us win ballgames. Short term... it would hurt right now.... but in the long run it would only make us better.

I just really think that it is in the best interest of the franchise to try and build a winner as fast as possible... and I see our Defense as only being three very attainable pieces (#2 Corner, OLB, FS) away from being very dominant.

ATX
01-27-2007, 01:42 PM
How is our cap space so low, when our team has sucked for 5 years in a row? I know the obvious answer, but who's really hurting us the most?

dirty steve
01-27-2007, 01:51 PM
it might be that dead money we are paying guys like gary walker, todd wade, and robaire smith. ugh...

aj.
01-27-2007, 02:13 PM
Why not be aggressive in free agency?

Because we can't.

Walker, Wade, and Smith's dead money is a big reason.

But so is this 'live' money:

Carr, David $7,256,720
Payne, Seth $5,331,720
Greenwood, Morlon $4,670,720
Davis, Domanick $4,646,720
Wiegert, Zach $4,081,720

The Texans have a new cap wizard in the house (Chris Olsen) and he has his work cut out for him.

Let's just hope we've seen the end (or at least a drastic reduction) of the stupid contracts and wasted draft picks.

edo783
01-27-2007, 03:40 PM
Why not be agressive in free agency?

Because we can't.

Walker, Wade, and Smith's dead money is a big reason.

But so is this 'live' money:

Carr, David $7,256,720
Payne, Seth $5,331,720
Greenwood, Morlon $4,670,720
Davis, Domanick $4,646,720
Wiegert, Zach $4,081,720

The Texans have a new cap wizard in the house (Chris Olsen) and he has his work cut out for him.

Let's just hope we've seen the end (or at least a drastic reduction) of the stupid contracts and wasted draft picks.

Those aren't the highest cap hits we have are they?

gtexan02
01-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Those aren't the highest cap hits we have are they?

I think those are the highest cap hits when you count it as value:

Salary/Performance = value

aj.
01-27-2007, 04:12 PM
Those aren't the highest cap hits we have are they?

They are among the highest. AJ's is the only one higher than Carr, and Weaver is also in that group. I cherry picked some that had value implications as the poster above me picked up on...

Bubbajwp
01-27-2007, 04:16 PM
Payne, Seth $5,331,720
Davis, Domanick $4,646,720
Wiegert, Zach $4,081,720 .

Thats 14 million sitting on IR every year.

Insideop
01-27-2007, 04:21 PM
Why not be agressive in free agency?

Because we can't.

Walker, Wade, and Smith's dead money is a big reason.

But so is this 'live' money:

Carr, David $7,256,720
Payne, Seth $5,331,720
Greenwood, Morlon $4,670,720
Davis, Domanick $4,646,720
Wiegert, Zach $4,081,720
The Texans have a new cap wizard in the house (Chris Olsen) and he has his work cut out for him.

Let's just hope we've seen the end (or at least a drastic reduction) of the stupid contracts and wasted draft picks.

Wow! Over half of the players you mention here probably will not be back playing with the Texans this year.

Wiegert with his age and injuries is probably done. Same with Payne, although I heard him talking on 610 last week about rehabing and coming back. Personally I don't see it and give him less that a 50/50 chance. DD/DW, I'm not counting on him ever making it back either, but he could play in a 2 or 3 back rotation for awhile. I just wouldn't count on him. How many people think Carr will be playing here this year? I just hope if they do trade him they can get some kinda relief on his contract. I think the Texans still have to pay any bonus money due don't they?

That leaves only Greenwood that will still be playing here this year that we know of for sure. Most of the rest may or may not play at all. I don't know if I would call that "live" money! lol: JMHO!

aj.
01-27-2007, 04:30 PM
I don't know if I would call that "live" money! lol:

I called it live money since the players are still on the roster.

Wiegert's is one of the more troubling in that group. He's an expensive cut if he can't make it back - around 6 mill to account for. DD Williams and Payne have about 4 mill each to account for if cut. Can't take all those hits this year - they will have to be spread some of it into '08 if that's the route they take. Then there's Carr...

Sportsfan
01-27-2007, 04:36 PM
We cannot be aggressive in Free Agency because of the following reasons:

#1) We do not have a lot of cap room
#2) Other teams have a TON of cap room
#3) We need to save cap room because we are picking high in the draft, again
#4) We have a lot of dead cap
#5) FAs do not want to play on a losing team unless they are primarily looking for a huge contract
#6) FAs have seen other good players come here and struggle
#7) Briggs will surely be heavily pursued by the Bears to resign

Thanks for posting this. EVERYONE on here needs to read and comprehend this, especially the first 4. Its not realistic the Texans are going to pick up ANY of the top free agents like Samuels, Briggs, etc., so get that out of your heads.

HJam72
01-27-2007, 04:48 PM
We cannot be aggressive in Free Agency because of the following reasons:

#1) We do not have a lot of cap room
#2) Other teams have a TON of cap room
#3) We need to save cap room because we are picking high in the draft, again
#4) We have a lot of dead cap
#5) FAs do not want to play on a losing team unless they are primarily looking for a huge contract
#6) FAs have seen other good players come here and struggle
#7) Briggs will surely be heavily pursued by the Bears to resign

But, but....we're still gonna get P. Manning or T. Brady, right? :um:

dat_boy_yec
01-27-2007, 06:19 PM
I disagree. I think we have enough money to be aggressive about getting one big name free agent and maybe some role players or a variety of role players.

If we could land Clements and Redding and that's it I think we did a good job in FA. However I'm sure we'll bring in some good talent. It's true we're in a bit of limited cap space, but considering alot of that money is coming off the books next yr. I'm sure we can work around it successfully.

Hottoddie
01-27-2007, 08:51 PM
Why not be aggressive in free agency?

Because we can't.

Walker, Wade, and Smith's dead money is a big reason.

But so is this 'live' money:

Carr, David $7,256,720
Payne, Seth $5,331,720
Greenwood, Morlon $4,670,720
Davis, Domanick $4,646,720
Wiegert, Zach $4,081,720

The Texans have a new cap wizard in the house (Chris Olsen) and he has his work cut out for him.

Let's just hope we've seen the end (or at least a drastic reduction) of the stupid contracts and wasted draft picks.

Anyone know what the cap implications would be, if we just outright cut these players? If I understand correctly, by cutting them after the July 1 date, we can spread their bonus's over 2 years, rather than just 1.

HPF did an article about Carr, in which they indicated that cutting him would net us ~$5.25 million in cap relief this year. But, that wouldn't occur until July 1. Of course, we'd have to get a replacement QB. Now, if the Texans planned on taking a QB in the draft (Kolb?) & grooming him behind Sage, I could live with that.

I guess my question is, if we cut all 5 of those players, how much extra cap space would that give us, both before & after July 1st?

http://www.houstonprofootball.com./cap2007.html

By using HPF's numbers & assuming that we could spread all of their signing bonuses over a 2 year period, I came up with these savings.

Carr: $5.25 million
Payne: $3.20 million
Greenwood: $2.56 million
DD/DW: $2.686 million
Wiegert: $918K

For an approximate total savings of $14.614 million off the 2007 salary cap. By adding that to the existing cap space of ~$14.42 million (according to HPF), the Texans could have ~$29 million in available cap space this year. That would definitely put us in the Asante Samuel chase.

I know that this is probably not right, but if it is, could the Texans spend the anticipated cap space prior to the July 1st date, knowing that they'll drop back below the NFL mandated cap? Help me pull my head out, cap gurus.

gtexan02
01-27-2007, 11:23 PM
What you guys don't seem to get is that, yes, technically we could "save" money by cutting these guys, we still have to sign NEW players to fill their places, and so its not really a saving at all

TwinSisters
01-28-2007, 03:28 AM
We're not in good shape at all compared to other teams...

Cap money available

1. San Francisco $42.1M

2. Buffalo $39.7M

3. Arizona $36.7M

4. Tennessee $36M

5. Cleveland $33.3M

6. Minnesota $32.4M

7. (tie)Jacksonville $32M

7. St. Louis $32M
----

22. Oakland $14.1M

23. Houston $13.3M
----
32. Pittsburgh $150,000



This is a bunch of crap.

What? Did we win a Super Bowl or something when I wasn't looking?

1-8 is the bottom of the barrel... and then look, it's us and Oakland. 5 years into the league and we are sitting next to a team managed by an old senile senior citizen, that in all likelyhood prances around his house stark naked with nothing on but a cape and a helmet.

I say screw the cap. You know, just forget about it all together. What's going to happen to us? Surrender a few #1 picks that we cannot afford anyway? Fine with me.

Hell, we might get lucky and the league decides to punish us by taking away all of our first round picks... that's not too bad of an idea really.

painekiller
01-28-2007, 06:14 AM
No we did what this thread is wanting us to do again. We tried to take a shortcut and overpaid FAs trying to make a splash. We had no base of talent that was drafted by the team worth building upon. Until this year, we had one starting offensive lineman drafted by this team that might be able to start on a team with a winning record. That is a formula for Cap Hell.

You will never get a starting LT in this league unless you draft them. And Casserly/Capers was not very good at drafting lineman on either side of the ball. You need to build your trenches first, then add the skill guys, Look at us the Cardinal, and the Lions, all bad teams who drafted skill guys without solid line play and all have failed.

Then look at the Eagles, they draft well, they accumulate draft picks, they rarely go the high priced FA path, and they are way below the Cap, and they are always in the playoffs.

The Pencil Neck
01-28-2007, 02:21 PM
We need to stop being aggressive and reaching for players and start being smart and picking up players who can and will actually help the team. We've been aggressive in the past and just ended up overpaying for players and it's killing us now.

I don't think we're going to land any of the big name free agents this year and I'm fine with that. Considering some of the production we got out of the no-names that Smith brought in during the season, I'm perfectly happy letting them work this thing out and hopefully putting us in a better cap situation with better players.

GTFan
01-29-2007, 01:10 AM
This is a bunch of crap.

What? Did we win a Super Bowl or something when I wasn't looking?

1-8 is the bottom of the barrel... and then look, it's us and Oakland. 5 years into the league and we are sitting next to a team managed by an old senile senior citizen, that in all likelyhood prances around his house stark naked with nothing on but a cape and a helmet.

I say screw the cap. You know, just forget about it all together. What's going to happen to us? Surrender a few #1 picks that we cannot afford anyway? Fine with me.

Hell, we might get lucky and the league decides to punish us by taking away all of our first round picks... that's not too bad of an idea really.

We've always had a pretty hefty salary cap. What should we expect when we acquire Seth Payne, Gary Walker, Tony Boselli, Sharper, Wong, Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman all in the supplemental draft? We had a defense that was ready to compete from year 1 but a offense that has never matured in 5 years. We've been carrying dead money since like year 3 of this franchise. We're actually just now coming out from under the horror that was our supplemental draft. oh well....

Maddict5
01-29-2007, 12:45 PM
holy crap i never knew we were paying weigert so much....morlon and DC get plenty of abuse over their contracts but weigert's is the worst imo

HOU-TEX
01-29-2007, 02:44 PM
holy crap i never knew we were paying weigert so much....morlon and DC get plenty of abuse over their contracts but weigert's is the worst imo

I hear ya! Morlon is definetly overpaid, but he's producing heavily compared to the other two. I like Morlon and I think he'll be even better this coming year. If we pick up a SLB, we'll have one of the better LB crews in the league.:yes:

hollywood_texan
01-29-2007, 03:31 PM
I don't care where you are with the cap, spending a lot of money in free agency is unlikely to produce big results.

Someone please show me a team that spends heavy in the free agent market and produces victories.

Instead of focusing on free agents and managing the cap (meaning cooking the books), spend money on the right head coach (there is no cap on the coaching staff, maybe there should be?) for the right system that provides the best results for the least amount of money when it comes to paying players.

A great example of this is the Patriots. Look at the Redskins, they spend money like crazy and zero results.

The key to success in the NFL and staying there is the head coach/system, QB, and building a strong unit through the draft. The best free agent addition is from the waiver that fits your system and provides immediate results, example, Jabar Gaffney.

Specnatz
01-29-2007, 03:32 PM
From what Fox Sports is saying the Salaries are a little different. I am not sure what the Cap figure was last year and of course no clue what it will be next year.

(Does this actually mean cap hit [because of signing bonus?]

2006 Salaries
Rk Player Salary (US$)

1 Morlon Greenwood $7,544,840
2 Kailee Wong $7,030,720
3 Eric Moulds $6,600,000
4 Seth Payne $5,506,160 (Played in 5 games)
5 David Carr $5,504,400
6 Domanick Williams $5,384,400 (injured all year)
7 Dunta Robinson $4,239,400
8 Steve McKinney $3,250,000
9 Zach Wiegert $2,654,840 (injured all season)
10 Kris Brown $2,454,400
11 Mike Flanagan $2,209,210
12 Gary Walker $2,206,160 (was not on the team for 2006 season)
13 DeMarcus Faggins $2,005,000
14 N.D. Kalu $1,952,310
15 Jason Babin $1,783,663
16 Dexter McCleon $1,721,875
17 Tony Banks $1,653,520 (was not on team for 2006 season)
18 Jeb Putzier $1,505,610
19 Barrett Green $1,465,000
20 Travis Johnson $1,290,000
21 Chester Pitts $1,261,160
22 Lional Dalton $1,204,290
23 Andre Johnson $1,155,000
24 Jason Simmons $1,028,960
25 Ephraim Salaam $1,003,520
26 Sam Cowart $1,002,530
27 Lewis Sanders $944,400
28 Victor Riley $816,760
29 Mark Bruener $769,400
30 DaShon Polk $695,280
31 Antowain Smith $692,090
32 Troy Evans $661,280
33 Saleem Rasheed $658,530
34 Wali Rainer $650,000
35 Chad Stanley $635,280
36 Sage Rosenfels $630,000
37 Ron Dayne $570,500
38 Jerome Mathis $566,000
39 Cedric Killings $545,720
40 David Loverne $543,080
41 Jameel Cook $542,200
42 Ramon Walker $461,160
43 Fred Weary $460,600
44 Mike Pearson $460,280
45 Anthony Weaver $460,170
46 Antwan Peek $386,160
47 Bryan Pittman $386,160
48 Charlie Adams $385,830
49 Derick Armstrong $384,840
50 Shantee Orr $384,840
51 Kevin Walter $384,730
52 Michael Stone $374,706
53 Drew Hodgdon $355,900
54 Frank Chamberlin $349,412
55 Charlie Anderson $311,160
56 Glenn Earl $311,160
57 Cody Pickett $310,830
58 Roc Alexander $310,720
59 Edell Shepherd $310,390
60 Anthony Maddox $309,840
61 Courtney Watson $309,180
62 Dexter Wynn $308,080
63 C.C. Brown $305,300
64 Vonta Leach $305,000
65 Bradlee Van Pelt $255,000
66 Chris White $237,000
67 Thomas Johnson $236,000
68 Von Hutchins $210,866
69 Harry Williams $181,256
70 Scott Jackson $181,153
71 Tim Bulman $147,006
72 Samkon Gado $126,465

Also from another site projecting 2007 Under the cap figures.

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

Projected 2007 NFL Salary Cap Space for Each Team

Rank Team $ Under the Cap

1 San Francisco 49ers $42.1 M
2 Buffalo Bills $39.7 M
3 Arizona Cardinals $36.7 M
4 Tennessee Titans $36 M
5 Cleveland Browns $33.305 M
6 St. Louis Rams $31.98 M
7 Minnesota Vikings $31.5 M
8 Jacksonville Jaguars $31 M
9 Cincinnati Bengals $28.8 M
10 NY Jets $28.455 M
11 Green Bay Packers $28.36 M
12 New England Patriots $26.98 M
13 Chicago Bears $26.9 M
14 New Orleans Saints $26 M
15 San Diego Chargers $24.6 M
16 Tampa Bay Buccaneers $23.985 M
17 Detroit Lions $23.8 M
18 Seattle Seahawks $21.9 M
19 Dallas Cowboys $21.5 M

20 Houston Texans $19.8 M

21 Miami Dolphins $17.8 M
22 NY Giants $15.7 M
23 Oakland Raiders $14.105 M
24 Philadelphia Eagles $12.4 M
25 Atlanta Falcons $11.5 M
26 Denver Broncos $7.6 M
27 Kansas City Chiefs $7 M
28 Baltimore Ravens $5.7 M
29 Indianapolis Colts $4.9 M
30 Pittsburgh Steelers $1.44 M
31 Carolina Panthers $-3.1
32 Washington Redskins $-2.388 M

TheOgre
01-29-2007, 03:32 PM
Rather than making a splash with one overpriced FA, I'd rather we be diligent and sign the 2nd and 3rd tier guys to compete for our mulititude of weak areas. On defense alone, we need as many as six new starters (assuming DE Mario, DE/DT Weaver, MLB Ryans, WLB Greenwood, and CB Robinson are likely locks to start in 2007). Offense and special teams have holes too.

I'd rather sign some several moderately priced guys than to put all of our eggs in one basket. :stirpot:

Meloy
01-29-2007, 03:46 PM
$13mm avail now. Add apprx another $4mm with new cap. Add another $4 million with salary adjustments that Kubes has hinted at restructuring (Mr Carr, this means you too) we should be able to sign a significant player and still pay rookies. Do not be surprised when a lot of bottom line guys are gone also. Even the small non guaranteed contracts add up when cut.

cj5776
01-29-2007, 04:03 PM
Rather than making a splash with one overpriced FA, I'd rather we be diligent and sign the 2nd and 3rd tier guys to compete for our mulititude of weak areas. On defense alone, we need as many as six new starters (assuming DE Mario, DE/DT Weaver, MLB Ryans, WLB Greenwood, and CB Robinson are likely locks to start in 2007). Offense and special teams have holes too.

I'd rather sign some several moderately priced guys than to put all of our eggs in one basket. :stirpot:


Six might be a little high. I think overall Kubes is pleased with the D. He mentioned once that if you throw out the first group of losses the D would have been ranked in the top twelve. Wong will be a lot stronger since he has had a full year to recover from his injury. Madux and Earl played strong down the stretch. FA corners usually come with a heavy price tage so keeping Faggins as the starter and drafting a corner to develop, I think is the way to go. So that leaves only two new starters in my opinion, a true free safety to mentor CC Brown and another DL.

Offensively I am thinking only RB. I really would like to see Ahem Green added to the mix. Green, Dayne, and Williams would be a nice group and then having Gado, Lundy, and the Indiana guy, ???, would fight for the 4th spot along with a draft choice. To me I think the line just needs a better swing back up tackle to compete with Salaam and as insurance for Spencer. Wr could use more speed but that should be there in the draft, especially with the depth at that position this year. So I am thinking 3 new starters and a new punter as well.

aj.
01-29-2007, 05:55 PM
From what Fox Sports is saying the Salaries are a little different. I am not sure what the Cap figure was last year and of course no clue what it will be next year.

(Does this actually mean cap hit [because of signing bonus?]

2006 Salaries
Rk Player Salary (US$)

1 Morlon Greenwood $7,544,840

Salary and cap hit are two different animals. Salary is the total amount of money the player earned in a given year, while cap hit is just an accounting figure that includes base salary, a prorated portion of the signing bonus, and full amounts of other bonuses and incentives.

Take the case of Greenwood:

He was signed to a 5 year $22.5 million contract in March of '05. That included a $7 million signing bonus.

His base salary for '05 was $540,000.

So his salary (money earned) in '05 (the Fox article incorrectly states it as '06) was the $7 million signing bonus + his base salary of $540,000 which equals the $7.54 million figure they are quoting. If the signing bonus is paid over two years, then only the portion that is paid in a given year is considered salary.

On the other hand, Greenwood's cap figure for '05, was ~$1.94 million. That's calculated by adding his base salary ($540,000) to the prorated portion of the signing bonus which is $1.4 million ($7 million / 5 years). There may have been other bonuses and incentives in his contract so the $1.94 is given for illustrative purposes only. I didn't double check the numbers anywhere.

For '06, Greenwood's cap figure was $1.4 million + his '06 base ($2.56 million) = $3.96 million, plus other bonuses (roster, workout, etc.) and incentives.

edit -- Looking again at the Fox article, those salaries are from '05 if they are showing Banks and Walker (because they were both gone by the start of the new business year and didn't earn any salary in '06). Now in the case of Walker, his dead money still counted on the cap in '06 -- another difference between salary (real money earned) and cap figure (accounting).

When you're looking at the various 'salary' (not cap) information on the web, keep in mind that when players sign new contracts, and get large signing bonuses, that amount is considered salary for that year. That's why you'll find odd players at the top of the salary list every now and then.

TheOgre
01-30-2007, 08:38 AM
Offensively I am thinking only RB.
So you are content with our QB play and our O-line? I see QB, OLT, C, and RB as offensive concerns.

When I said we needed "as many as 6" on defense, that was the max. I don't think we have the luxury of fixing all 6 positions. We likely will sign a CB, draft a FS, and perhaps a D-lineman as well. Focusing on those three spots would do wonders for our D.

That doesn't leave much room to add on offense though.