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Dr. Toro
01-26-2007, 09:16 AM
Voided the final year of his contract, now a UFA.

Texans: He's a legit deep threat, big target. A "playmaker"... but I don't know what Kubiak thinks about him.

Falcons: Roddy White/Michael Jenkins= horrible WR corps. They could conceivably draft another 1st rd. WR in this deep class. DB is still more likely.

beerlover
01-26-2007, 09:24 AM
good find Toro. w/deep WR class in the draft not sure if he will get the kind of money he hopes.

in a draft thin on db's I would prefer hometown CB Nate Clements who was just on sports radio 610 & said he would love to play for the Texans if the :money: is right. note to Kubiak/Smith & Smith make this happen.....please :flowers:

hot pickle
01-26-2007, 11:36 AM
good find Toro. w/deep WR class in the draft not sure if he will get the kind of money he hopes.

in a draft thin on db's I would prefer hometown CB Nate Clements who was just on sports radio 610 & said he would love to play for the Texans if the :money: is right. note to Kubiak/Smith & Smith make this happen.....please :flowers:

there it is to all the people sayin he dont got a chance, mcnair pay the man, damn this just made my day better

mexican_texan
01-26-2007, 11:37 AM
Lelie isn't an upgrade over any WR on the roster.

Dr. Toro
01-26-2007, 11:39 AM
there it is to all the people sayin he dont got a chance, mcnair pay the man, damn this just made my day better

My 2 cents on Clements is this... you can only afford to pay 1 guy #1 CB money, and you only need 1 #1 CB to win. If you think Dunta is a lockdown corner or can be one next year or thereafter, you can't pay Clements. I think a solid veteran or a 2nd rounder like Aaron Ross is a better choice if Dunta can lockdown.

Please_Evolve
01-26-2007, 11:59 AM
I'll pass. thanks. I didn't think he was worth the first rounder Denver orginally picked him with. I'm sure they are much happier with Javon Walker.

Dr. Toro
01-26-2007, 12:02 PM
I'll pass. thanks. I didn't think he was worth the first rounder Denver orginally picked him with. I'm sure they are much happier with Javon Walker.

So if Peterson is gone... who is the playmaker we add?

TexanSam
01-26-2007, 02:10 PM
good find Toro. w/deep WR class in the draft not sure if he will get the kind of money he hopes.

in a draft thin on db's I would prefer hometown CB Nate Clements who was just on sports radio 610 & said he would love to play for the Texans if the :money: is right. note to Kubiak/Smith & Smith make this happen.....please :flowers:

Clements would love to play for anyone if the money is right.

El Tejano
01-26-2007, 02:27 PM
Clements would love to play for anyone if the money is right.

Yes that is true. However the argument on this board has been that he is ready to go to a winning team after bad years in Buffalo.

Dr. Toro
01-26-2007, 03:33 PM
Yes that is true. However the argument on this board has been that he is ready to go to a winning team after bad years in Buffalo.

From what he said on the radio... he's trying to get paid. He certainly thinks highly enough of his abilities to think he can turn a loser into a winner. He's right... shutdown corners go a long way.

Dunta_23
01-26-2007, 04:35 PM
Realistically, he was doing the interview with a Houston based radio station? If im reading this properly...If he was asked if he would like to play for the Texans....would anybody expect him to say something along the lines of " No way....no matter what the money is, I want to play for a winner"...Players say the same thing all the time...IF we have enough $$$ to make a push....then he may come here....but I dont read anything about a "hometown discount"....he wants his $$$, it all spends the same no matter who gives it to you

PapaL
01-26-2007, 06:13 PM
My 2 cents on Clements is this... you can only afford to pay 1 guy #1 CB money, and you only need 1 #1 CB to win. If you think Dunta is a lockdown corner or can be one next year or thereafter, you can't pay Clements. I think a solid veteran or a 2nd rounder like Aaron Ross is a better choice if Dunta can lockdown.

DRob isnt getting paid #1 money; he's getting paid #10 overall pick money for 3-4 more years. (13th highest on our team). We could swing the both of them....I hope. Clements will be around the 10 year mark in 3-4 years; right about time to let him go. :twocents:

Dr. Toro
01-26-2007, 06:46 PM
DRob isnt getting paid #1 money; he's getting paid #10 overall pick money for 3-4 more years. (13th highest on our team). We could swing the both of them....I hope. Clements will be around the 10 year mark in 3-4 years; right about time to let him go. :twocents:

What I'm saying is... if Dunta can be a shutdown corner... you don't need Clements... you just need a good #2 corner.

beerlover
01-26-2007, 07:19 PM
What I'm saying is... if Dunta can be a shutdown corner... you don't need Clements... you just need a good #2 corner.

Dunta is not a shutdown corner. what he could be is a spectacular FS if the Texans had a legit shutdown corner better in man to man coverage, like Clements. Dunta is a defensive playmaker. Nate Clements is one of the best cover corners in the league & WHO DOES'NT need one :aikido:

Please_Evolve
01-27-2007, 12:01 PM
So if Peterson is gone... who is the playmaker we add?

On Offense? Honestly I don't want ONE playmaker. I'd prefer a balanced offense that keeps you off guard and the sceme is more of a concern then just one person. Whether it's Dayne pounding the ball up the middle or Taylor on a pitch outside, Daniel Owens exposing the seams, and outside Johnson and Moulds(I still think there's a lot left in that tank.) and whomever(seriously I don't care) is the Qb being able to make solid decisions in the passing game. I will say this though There's a Reason why a guy like Sage didn't make it in Washington and Miami. Guy looks like a solid backup or Trent Dilfer type of QB at best. I like Peterson and if he falls to us and we take him I won't complain.

I like others just think that there's a lot more holes to fill then at running back and i think our defense is a FS and linebacker away from being one of the better defenses in the league. I like the addition of Frank Bush to the coaching Staff and i predict great things from Demeco next year.

Towards the end of the Year our running game picked up steam and i think Winston looked solid and was getting it and i can only lament what a Healthy Charles Spencer would've looked like out there. Am i saying Ron Dayne is the guy next year? I don't know. I think getting sustained carries later in the year game him time to develop a rhythm like he did at Wisconsin. Is he the break it to the house guy? No not really that's not his style. But Terrell Davis and Jamal Lewis weren't break it to the house style guys either...oh yeah that's the last two backs to break the 2000 yard mark.\

If you're looking for a steal. Micheal Bush in the second round. Not sure if he'll be fully healthy by the start of the season but giving the Oline more talent and time to develop and him healthy....he'll be a much more deadly playmaker in the long run.

Back to Lelie. Threads like this where x player is available we should persue him in FA. Why would we want him when the problem area on our offense is NOT wide receiver?

ATX
01-27-2007, 12:25 PM
Dunta Robinson is not a shutdown corner by any means. Maybe he'll become more of a shutdown corner, but in the meantime he's one of the best tackling corners in the league. Put more of a cover corner opposite of him like Clements or Samuel and we're good at CB. Faggins can play the nickel.

gtexan02
01-27-2007, 01:11 PM
My 2 cents on Clements is this... you can only afford to pay 1 guy #1 CB money, and you only need 1 #1 CB to win. If you think Dunta is a lockdown corner or can be one next year or thereafter, you can't pay Clements. I think a solid veteran or a 2nd rounder like Aaron Ross is a better choice if Dunta can lockdown.

This would only be true if our CB corp played receivers, rather than sides of the field. If you play sides of field, you need two corners who can both cover #1 WRs, because as it happens, the teams we play just switch their #1 to the non-DRob side

Dr. Toro
01-27-2007, 01:51 PM
On Offense? Honestly I don't want ONE playmaker. I'd prefer a balanced offense that keeps you off guard and the sceme is more of a concern then just one person. Whether it's Dayne pounding the ball up the middle or Taylor on a pitch outside, Daniel Owens exposing the seams, and outside Johnson and Moulds(I still think there's a lot left in that tank.) and whomever(seriously I don't care) is the Qb being able to make solid decisions in the passing game. I will say this though There's a Reason why a guy like Sage didn't make it in Washington and Miami. Guy looks like a solid backup or Trent Dilfer type of QB at best. I like Peterson and if he falls to us and we take him I won't complain.

I like others just think that there's a lot more holes to fill then at running back and i think our defense is a FS and linebacker away from being one of the better defenses in the league. I like the addition of Frank Bush to the coaching Staff and i predict great things from Demeco next year.

Towards the end of the Year our running game picked up steam and i think Winston looked solid and was getting it and i can only lament what a Healthy Charles Spencer would've looked like out there. Am i saying Ron Dayne is the guy next year? I don't know. I think getting sustained carries later in the year game him time to develop a rhythm like he did at Wisconsin. Is he the break it to the house guy? No not really that's not his style. But Terrell Davis and Jamal Lewis weren't break it to the house style guys either...oh yeah that's the last two backs to break the 2000 yard mark.\

If you're looking for a steal. Micheal Bush in the second round. Not sure if he'll be fully healthy by the start of the season but giving the Oline more talent and time to develop and him healthy....he'll be a much more deadly playmaker in the long run.

Back to Lelie. Threads like this where x player is available we should persue him in FA. Why would we want him when the problem area on our offense is NOT wide receiver?

1. The FO says we need to add playmakers on O. I'll defer to their better judgment.

2. Even I can see that our skill personnel package lacks quite a bit of punch and HR threat.

3a. In 2005-2006 combined, this offense produced 5 pass plays of over 40 yards.

3b. From 2003-2005 in Denver, Lelie produced 15 receptions of over 40 yards (5 every year).

3c. Andre Johnson's YPC has gone from around 15 in 2003 and 2004 to 11 n 2005 and 2006. His catches 20+ and 40+ have been halved. Clearly, we need a deep threat to open up some space for him to operate.

So there it is, a pretty good case for adding a deep threat. Lelie fits that bill, and if the money, attitude, and PT situation fit, he'd be a really nice addition.

Dr. Toro
01-27-2007, 01:56 PM
Dunta Robinson is not a shutdown corner by any means. Maybe he'll become more of a shutdown corner, but in the meantime he's one of the best tackling corners in the league. Put more of a cover corner opposite of him like Clements or Samuel and we're good at CB. Faggins can play the nickel.

Clements will probably get the biggest contract of this FA class in a market full of teams awash in cash and cap space. He'll go to the highest bidder... are you okay with that being the Texans? Samuel and his "Get paid" tat will be right behind. It's a tough call.

run-david-run
01-27-2007, 02:56 PM
I think Clements and Sammuels will keep each other from getting stupid money. I would think it will end up with something in the Champ Bailey range.

Another thing to keep in mind with our cap, it should clear up in a year or two when all those dead contracts finally finish (Wade, Smith etc.), so if we put most of Clements contract value a couple years from now, maybe we can give him his money without getting in cap hell.

TexanSam
01-27-2007, 02:59 PM
The thing about NFL contracts, if Clements were to sign a $50 million 5 year deal with the Texans, a lot of that money isn't guaranteed. It's not like baseball where just about every single penny is guaranteed. Mario Williams signed a $55 million deal when we drafted him last year (I think) but "only" $26 is guaranteed cash. NFL deals always look bigger than they really are.

Please_Evolve
01-29-2007, 03:12 PM
1. The FO says we need to add playmakers on O. I'll defer to their better judgment.

2. Even I can see that our skill personnel package lacks quite a bit of punch and HR threat.

3a. In 2005-2006 combined, this offense produced 5 pass plays of over 40 yards.

3b. From 2003-2005 in Denver, Lelie produced 15 receptions of over 40 yards (5 every year).

3c. Andre Johnson's YPC has gone from around 15 in 2003 and 2004 to 11 n 2005 and 2006. His catches 20+ and 40+ have been halved. Clearly, we need a deep threat to open up some space for him to operate.

So there it is, a pretty good case for adding a deep threat. Lelie fits that bill, and if the money, attitude, and PT situation fit, he'd be a really nice addition.

A lot of the problems have been offensive line related and the production of Carr and....just horrid coaching and FO decisions.

There's a reason Denver traded him and before they did he was malcontent. Over what iam not sure... i thought it was a wasted pick by Denver reaching for a receiver that year when some good ones were taken early. I'm also curious to see if Denver picks up a Receiver this year. Looks likea good year to do it withe first round and second round depth. While Walker had a breakout year..... Rod Smith is getting up there in years.....but again i digress.

I don't think our skill set receivers are that bad. Might get hammered for saying that about the ground game. But you live by the big play and you die by it as well. Is it a nice thing to have? Well hell yeah. But i'd prefer and offense that is methodical, forces you into mismatches, can run the ball to take time off the clock, make that third and five catch to sustain drives get the basic well and cogs. Then you can have a chance to take shots downfield. Is the first part sexy? Not really. But you do it to win games and have sustained success. I really hope Kubiak turns to be more of personell and and mismatch guy.

kastofsna
01-29-2007, 03:17 PM
i can pretty much guarantee that miami will make a real hard push for lelie.

Texas
01-29-2007, 04:16 PM
My 2 cents on Clements is this... you can only afford to pay 1 guy #1 CB money, and you only need 1 #1 CB to win. If you think Dunta is a lockdown corner or can be one next year or thereafter, you can't pay Clements. I think a solid veteran or a 2nd rounder like Aaron Ross is a better choice if Dunta can lockdown.

I disagree...You need two lock down corners...We will never beat the top tier teams if we have 1 lock down corner and a crappy CB and two crappy safeties..get real

beerlover
01-29-2007, 04:20 PM
i can pretty much guarantee that miami will make a real hard push for lelie.

not when they can draft Ted Ginn Jr

plus they first need to focus their attention on re-signing f/a LT Damion McIntosh :drunk:

Dr. Toro
01-29-2007, 04:28 PM
I disagree...You need two lock down corners...We will never beat the top tier teams if we have 1 lock down corner and a crappy CB and two crappy safeties..get real

All I said was 1 lockdown CB and a good complimentary CB is enough to get the job done a la Denver or New England. Why do you think New England lets these guys loose all the time? They turn #2 CB's into #1's, and when it's time for the newly minted #1 to get paid they let him go because the guy opposite him has developed into a stopper a la Ellis Hobbs. There are only like 10 shutdown corners in the game, so I'm not sure why you think 2 of them are necessary to win. Upgrades at safety would be nice, though.

whiskeyrbl
01-29-2007, 05:11 PM
I disagree...You need two lock down corners...We will never beat the top tier teams if we have 1 lock down corner and a crappy CB and two crappy safeties..get real

Agreed in OUR DIVISION we need two lockdown corners, or at least one to go opposite of Dunta. Get this and draft a S, OLB, and or DT and our D is almost set.

gtexan02
01-29-2007, 05:39 PM
All I said was 1 lockdown CB and a good complimentary CB is enough to get the job done a la Denver or New England. Why do you think New England lets these guys loose all the time? They turn #2 CB's into #1's, and when it's time for the newly minted #1 to get paid they let him go because the guy opposite him has developed into a stopper a la Ellis Hobbs. There are only like 10 shutdown corners in the game, so I'm not sure why you think 2 of them are necessary to win. Upgrades at safety would be nice, though.

I still don't get the purpose of having 1 shutdown corner if you play sides of field defense. The other team just switches their #1 to the other side, and you're finished. Meanwhile your "true lockdown corner" is defending the #2s of the NFL

Dr. Toro
01-29-2007, 08:53 PM
I still don't get the purpose of having 1 shutdown corner if you play sides of field defense. The other team just switches their #1 to the other side, and you're finished. Meanwhile your "true lockdown corner" is defending the #2s of the NFL

I'm sure Denver just lets other teams dictate who Champ Bailey covers... well no they don't they move him around, let him bother guys like Gates and Gonzo... sure, he's not guarding Chad Johnson every play, but knowing one guy has his man neutralized frees up your safeties and lets you manage coverage a heck of a lot more. Having 2 shutdown corners would be a nice luxury, far from a necessity.

gtexan02
01-29-2007, 09:56 PM
I'm sure Denver just lets other teams dictate who Champ Bailey covers... well no they don't they move him around, let him bother guys like Gates and Gonzo... sure, he's not guarding Chad Johnson every play, but knowing one guy has his man neutralized frees up your safeties and lets you manage coverage a heck of a lot more. Having 2 shutdown corners would be a nice luxury, far from a necessity.

But we dont do that! Have you ever seen DRob move around to cover 1 specific receiver? no, we don't even have that luxury. So until we start playing in that system, its not worth debating

Please_Evolve
01-29-2007, 10:45 PM
i can pretty much guarantee that miami will make a real hard push for lelie.


David Boston minus the steroids for you guys if that happens.