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U4ikrob
01-26-2007, 07:21 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2007/01/carr_talk_around_the_nfl.html

Mostly Rumor mongering by Solomon who just loves to stir the pot, but maybe a few nuggets of truth mixed in. :stirpot:

January 25, 2007
Carr talk around the NFL
Apparently word is circulating around the league that the Texans' David Carr "might" be available for a third-round draft pick. Wonder who started that rumor.

In our expert opinion, that just might be true.

Elsewhere ... The King might be available if Halle Berry called.

This rumor is good news for some Texans fans, but bad news for others. Unfortunately for Carr, it seems like an indicator that the end is near.

I checked with a couple of league sources: two said they were aware of it, another said he had not been told that by any reliable source, but got wind of the talk at the Senior Bowl this week. All said it is too early to tell if the talk is legit and it would be premature to assume anything is imminent if they are.

DarkNinja
01-26-2007, 07:27 AM
I don't care just get Carr out of here so the offensive can start blocking again. Hey it worked for Sage!!

SamuraiSword
01-26-2007, 07:36 AM
January 25, 2007
Carr talk around the NFL
Apparently word is circulating around the league that the Texans' David Carr "might" be available for a third-round draft pick. Wonder who started that rumor.

In our expert opinion, that just might be true.

Elsewhere ... The King might be available if Halle Berry called.

This rumor is good news for some Texans fans, but bad news for others. Unfortunately for Carr, it seems like an indicator that the end is near.

I checked with a couple of league sources: two said they were aware of it, another said he had not been told that by any reliable source, but got wind of the talk at the Senior Bowl this week. All said it is too early to tell if the talk is legit and it would be premature to assume anything is imminent if they are.


uh oh get ready for some snide remarks from Carr supporters about finding rumors to get him out of Houston......But I agree with that the only way to get rid of Carr is trade him to the lions. What other team would take Carr?

BigWig
01-26-2007, 07:55 AM
A pro personnel assistant said there is no way the Texans could get a third-round pick for Carr, but a conditional fourth-rounder probably isn't out of the question.

Last offseason, the Vikings got a second-round pick for Daunte Culpepper and the Lions picked up a sixth-round choice (moved up to a fifth-rounder after Harrington reached a certain amount of playing time).

Right there in plain english Carr isnt worth much at all, according to this guy.
If we keep Carr we will always be mediocre.

Mr. White
01-26-2007, 08:00 AM
What other team would take Carr?

A team looking for a backup QB.

Carr Bombed
01-26-2007, 08:27 AM
Teams that might be interested

Oakland
Minnesota
Browns
Tampa Bay
Green Bay, air to Brett Farve
Detroit, maybe, but Kitna didn't have too bad of a year.


So there are teams out there, half these teams will probably draft a QB, but this class really isn't that strong.

BigBull17
01-26-2007, 08:49 AM
Teams that might be interested

Oakland
Minnesota
Browns
Tampa Bay
Green Bay, air to Brett Farve
Detroit, maybe, but Kitna didn't have too bad of a year.


So there are teams out there, half these teams will probably draft a QB, but this class really isn't that strong.

Yeah and Green Bay would be a good fit. His arm and mobility are similar to Favre in his hay day. Im gonna add Baltimore, because McNair wont be around forever, and the Dolphins because they take anyones castoffs.

WWJD
01-26-2007, 08:55 AM
David has alot of ability and may thrive in another city with another team and system.

All we know is it hasn't worked out for him here. Some his fault, some not.

I do think there will be a market for him. He's got alot of experience and QB's are coveted with experience.

Kaiser Toro
01-26-2007, 09:02 AM
Carr has had two good years in his last eight. Those two good years were at the same program that Trent Dilfer and Billy Volek prospered. When you strip it down we have a Fresno State Quarterback making USC Quarterback money. We have been a joke because we drafted a joke. When we take Carr out of the equation - Sage, Tony Banks and limit Carr's passing we are pretty darn successful as compared to Carr passing the ball

The day Carr leaves will be the best day ever for Texan fans. Carr fans not so much.

Carr Bombed
01-26-2007, 09:05 AM
Hey Toro don't hold back, tell us how you really feel...........ouch :popcorn:

HoustonFrog
01-26-2007, 09:09 AM
Carr has had two good years in his last eight. Those two good years were at the same program that Trent Dilfer and Billy Volek prospered. When you strip it down we have a Fresno State Quarterback making USC Quarterback money. We have been a joke because we drafted a joke. When we take Carr out of the equation - Sage, Tony Banks and limit Carr's passing we are pretty darn successful as compared to Carr passing the ball

The day Carr leaves will be the best day ever for Texan fans. Carr fans not so much.

Word!:)

TheCD
01-26-2007, 09:14 AM
Teams that might be interested

Oakland
Minnesota
Browns
Tampa Bay
Green Bay, air to Brett Farve
Detroit, maybe, but Kitna didn't have too bad of a year.


So there are teams out there, half these teams will probably draft a QB, but this class really isn't that strong.



I could see Green Bay. He's tough as nails, like Favre, and Number 4 is his hero.

U4ikrob
01-26-2007, 10:05 AM
I could see Green Bay. He's tough as nails, like Favre, and Number 4 is his hero.

Actually Aikman was Carr's hero growing up

My 2 coppers - Officially I'm on the fence where Carr is concerned. Ive watched enough games to know he hasnt performed his best all the time. Ive also seen enough football to know he hasnt gotten alot of support from the staff or playmakers to work with over the years hes been here to make things work and compete against most other NFL teams on a consistent basis. Injuries happen to every team and not everyone has pro-bowlers all around to play with - that takes time, good drafting/scouting anda little luck. IMO Carr's kind of had to play with a hand behind his back so to speak since he's been here. No QB coach to start with, a revolving door at the OC position and at the skill positions on Offense. To compare just for fun - Troy Aikmans first few years as a Cowboy were not pretty either until they landed Emmitt and had Irvin and Harper to pair with. That took some good GM skill and luck to land all those draft choices and get the right players. It made a big difference long term and Aikman stepped up to par also. IMO some players take their opportunities as a challenge when faced with adversity all around them. While others take a paycheck and point fingers [see TO, Moss etc]. IMO Carr's been a stand up enough guy he's taken the punches, sacks and catcalls from fans and kept rolling, but IMO he has never really taken the "Challenge" to play his position his best. I feel seriously this year is it for Carr here and with the Texans as he has not shown enough positive play on the field to continue in his position based on merit or circumstance. He needs to win the job and not just win it - but own it out right to solify the confidence of his teamates, his coaching staff and put the fear back in other teams.

Now obviously he hasnt shown this kind of ability just yet, but I think even he knows his job is on the line now and has been communicated to him enough that he knows the team has a sense of urgency now to compete and if he truly wants to stay here and compete - IMO he needs to show it both on and in his off-field work and he will get his chance during camp and OTA's to compete for the job as "Smith" said in his interview. If not - then neither him nor anyone who routes for the Texans can say he hasnt received a fair shot to compete. My hunch is Carr will be here to compete for the job in the fall as I dont see us drafting a rookie and starting the experiment over again - nor do I see us bringing in any veteran until after June 1st cuts are made, because we honestly need our cap space for bringing in other players. Plummer is the most viable option the team seems to be looking at bringing in, but even he knows that most likely wont happen until after June. Plummer and his agent will talk with the Texans and probably any other interested teams and Denver to see where offers are at. My hunch is nobody will jump to grab his 7.5 million contract and will wait till june comes and see what Denver decides to do before making a move for Plummer. IMO Plummer wants to play for Kubiak, but he also wants to get paid and still compete for a starting job. IMO he probably knows if he has to wait till june that Houston is were he will probably end up going to as he will get a chance to compete for the job and play for his fav coach.

Bottom line - Sure we need help on the O-line and a starting caliber RB, but alot of teams need that too. We are not the only one in need of playmakers on our team. I feel confident the staff will pull it together enough to give anyone back there a decent chance of success this upcoming year. The rest will be up to whomever wins the job as the Texans signal-caller.

Kaiser Toro
01-26-2007, 10:10 AM
The Cowboys set up their future before the salary cap era.

GP
01-26-2007, 10:59 AM
The Cowboys set up their future before the salary cap era.

And throw in the Herschel Walker trade that netted them a lot of good draft picks...and it's no wonder they were able to dominate so quickly and for so long.

IIRC, the NFL then put into place a rule on trading players for draft picks because of the Herschel Walker trade and how lopsided it was for the Cowboys. You've not seen the same sort of trade since that particular one.

Jerry probably had enough talent to have TWO NFL teams with his roster. Gotta' give them credit for taking advantage of the system back in the day.

Now back to topic: I do not think we'll get an offer for a third round pick for Carr. I think teams are scared off a little bit by how Kubiak "The Quarterback Redeemer" came in and in one year is already potentially shopping Carr...throw in the speculation that we might be pursuing Plummer to fill Carr's shoes and it makes me think teams wonder just how good David could be if we're thinking of going with Jake over David.

David, IMO, is better than Jake. Jake might have a better "I don't give a crap" mentality--which works well for QBs because they can go on and forget about a string of bad plays--but I also think Jake is so far down the road of not giving a crap that he's on the verge of not giving a crap right out of the NFL as a professional QB. I see a guy, in Jake, who is losing competitive "fire" in his belly. His press conferences, IMO, showed us a guy who slumped, shrunk his shoulders, and looked generally perturbed by the "Jay Cutler is going to take your job" issue that eventually overtook Plummer.

And to say that Plummer was better when Kubiak was in Denver...I can see that a little bit, but I also see Cutler doing pretty darn well in Shanahan's system when he took over the reins from Jake. So I'm not sure that the whole Denver offense shut down after Kubiak left town.

I just think Jake's on a fairly gradual decline at this point. He got shamed out of Arizona, labeled "Jake The Mistake," and was replaced by a rookie after he was told in the offseason and during the early stages of the season that "Jake's our guy." I don't know that he's got anything left in the tank. A few bad games here, and all of us will be whining that we inherited a scruffy has-been...and then you'll be saying that we had it better with David.

I want this team to either fully commit to David, or to patiently and strategically choose another "franchise" QB who is not an aging veteran who's wandered the NFL in search of success. Is Jake really that sort of player, the player who is the franchise QB for us? I think he's the latter.

Teams like Dallas and Atlanta have set themselves up for an easy transition with Romo and Schaub. Lanta says they are "building the team and the focus of the offense" around Vick. Yeah, right. They'll put Schaub into a Romo-type situation pretty fast...just in time to trade Vick next season when Vick sputters again.

The QB position is not one that you fool around with. I used to disagree with sitting a young QB and "grooming" him for a few years before playing him. Seeing what Oilers/Titans did with McNair, and with how Romo has played under the same situation, has made a believer out of me.

Maybe the best route is to draft a few QBs over the next two drafts, commit to David for two years, and let those drafted QBs get "groomed" at the same time. If David works out, great. If he doesn't, we potentially have a QB waiting on our sideline who can take off quickly with virtually no hiccups.

Leftwich was deemed a God his first few years. Now look at him. Vick is just now being OBJECTIVELY analyzed and his God stature is beginning to crumble a little. A lot of QBs who "looked' like the real deal, are now struggling. Meanwhile, guys like Brady/Schaub/Romo sat on the bench and waited and waited and waited. There might be something to the idea of sitting a guy and not just throwing him into the lineup.

I don't want other teams cast offs. Do you? I want to be a team who's scouts identify talent, get the talent, groom the talent, and then roll it out onto the field when its ready to go.

texans83
01-26-2007, 11:07 AM
Actually Aikman was Carr's hero growing up

My 2 coppers - Officially I'm on the fence where Carr is concerned. Ive watched enough games to know he hasnt performed his best all the time. Ive also seen enough football to know he hasnt gotten alot of support from the staff or playmakers to work with over the years hes been here to make things work and compete against most other NFL teams on a consistent basis. Injuries happen to every team and not everyone has pro-bowlers all around to play with - that takes time, good drafting/scouting anda little luck. IMO Carr's kind of had to play with a hand behind his back so to speak since he's been here. No QB coach to start with, a revolving door at the OC position and at the skill positions on Offense. To compare just for fun - Troy Aikmans first few years as a Cowboy were not pretty either until they landed Emmitt and had Irvin and Harper to pair with. That took some good GM skill and luck to land all those draft choices and get the right players. It made a big difference long term and Aikman stepped up to par also. IMO some players take their opportunities as a challenge when faced with adversity all around them. While others take a paycheck and point fingers [see TO, Moss etc]. IMO Carr's been a stand up enough guy he's taken the punches, sacks and catcalls from fans and kept rolling, but IMO he has never really taken the "Challenge" to play his position his best. I feel seriously this year is it for Carr here and with the Texans as he has not shown enough positive play on the field to continue in his position based on merit or circumstance. He needs to win the job and not just win it - but own it out right to solify the confidence of his teamates, his coaching staff and put the fear back in other teams.

Now obviously he hasnt shown this kind of ability just yet, but I think even he knows his job is on the line now and has been communicated to him enough that he knows the team has a sense of urgency now to compete and if he truly wants to stay here and compete - IMO he needs to show it both on and in his off-field work and he will get his chance during camp and OTA's to compete for the job as "Smith" said in his interview. If not - then neither him nor anyone who routes for the Texans can say he hasnt received a fair shot to compete. My hunch is Carr will be here to compete for the job in the fall as I dont see us drafting a rookie and starting the experiment over again - nor do I see us bringing in any veteran until after June 1st cuts are made, because we honestly need our cap space for bringing in other players. Plummer is the most viable option the team seems to be looking at bringing in, but even he knows that most likely wont happen until after June. Plummer and his agent will talk with the Texans and probably any other interested teams and Denver to see where offers are at. My hunch is nobody will jump to grab his 7.5 million contract and will wait till june comes and see what Denver decides to do before making a move for Plummer. IMO Plummer wants to play for Kubiak, but he also wants to get paid and still compete for a starting job. IMO he probably knows if he has to wait till june that Houston is were he will probably end up going to as he will get a chance to compete for the job and play for his fav coach.

Bottom line - Sure we need help on the O-line and a starting caliber RB, but alot of teams need that too. We are not the only one in need of playmakers on our team. I feel confident the staff will pull it together enough to give anyone back there a decent chance of success this upcoming year. The rest will be up to whomever wins the job as the Texans signal-caller.

I agree with everything you have said

srstex
01-26-2007, 11:21 AM
I have some questions:
1) Have the Texans had the same oline two years in a row?
2) Have the Texans had the same O coordinator for two years running ?

Let's face it Jake is another question not the answer, the only answer to our teams questions is the one all encompassing consistency. Let's work with what we have for two years solid, which will be hard since Calhoun is gone, Sherman is in, But Kubiak calls all the plays.

Sorry, so far all I see are questions. If the Texans oust Carr, what then ? We'll have someone else to blame, and so will Kubiak.

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2007, 11:58 AM
HOUSTON (Sept. 19, 2005) -- The Houston Texans fired offensive coordinator Chris Palmer following the team's second straight embarrassing loss.

Palmer will be replaced by offensive line coach Joe Pendry, according to a source who asked not to be identified because the team had not yet made the announcement.

The Houston Chronicle first reported the firing on its Website.

Palmer, who has been the offensive coordinator since the team's inception, also called the plays.

Palmer was the OC for 2002 , 2003 , 2004 , and was fired in 2005 .

El Amigo Invisible
01-26-2007, 12:13 PM
I have some questions:
1) Have the Texans had the same oline two years in a row?
2) Have the Texans had the same O coordinator for two years running ?

Let's face it Jake is another question not the answer, the only answer to our teams questions is the one all encompassing consistency. Let's work with what we have for two years solid, which will be hard since Calhoun is gone, Sherman is in, But Kubiak calls all the plays.

Sorry, so far all I see are questions. If the Texans oust Carr, what then ? We'll have someone else to blame, and so will Kubiak.


I agree with you here. Last year was the time to dump Carr for a second or maybe a low first rounder. I do not know who should be held responsible(for not drafting Vince)but I dont think "The Snake" is the answer.I think we should at least try to get our money's worth from Carr(plus we have a decent back up QB). Oh man , this could get ugly!:scare:

ATX
01-26-2007, 12:28 PM
[url]A pro personnel assistant said there is no way the Texans could get a third-round pick for Carr, but a conditional fourth-rounder probably isn't out of the question.

A pro personnel assistant? If the raiders can get a 2nd and 3rd rounder for a late 1st round bust in Buchanon, why is it unreasonable to think the Texans could get a 3rd rounder for a former 1st pick QB who can take a beating?

Call me crazy, but I don't think a 3rd round pick is unreasonable for a Team in desperate need of a QB. There's plenty of teams stupid enough to make that deal.

hollywood_texan
01-26-2007, 01:18 PM
A pro personnel assistant? If the raiders can get a 2nd and 3rd rounder for a late 1st round bust in Buchanon, why is it unreasonable to think the Texans could get a 3rd rounder for a former 1st pick QB who can take a beating?

Call me crazy, but I don't think a 3rd round pick is unreasonable for a Team in desperate need of a QB. There's plenty of teams stupid enough to make that deal.

There is a simple answer, Charlie Casserly isn't a GM in the NFL to do this deal. Buchannon was a horrible deal, just because it happened once, doesn' mean someone is as stupid to do it again.

I see teams getting more reserved in trades and spending free agent money. It really is a buyer's market out there in general with regard to talent if you have the right system too, example, Patriots.

If this shopping rumor is true, the Texans are just testing the waters to find out the Blue Book value on their old Carr. Nothing will probably happen, just a means to paper the file and demonstrate Carr's true value besides the owner's opinion that Carr can't be evaulated because he doesn't have enough talent around him.

SESupergenius
01-26-2007, 02:06 PM
Sage, Tony Banks and limit Carr's passing we are pretty darn successful as compared to Carr passing the ball You might as well throw in Dave Ragone into that scenario because none of them impressed me when they were in there when it counts. Seriously. If you calll Tony Banks' 2 key interceptions in the Bush bowl successful or Sage's 1 for 3 9 yard 1 sack performance against Jacksonville with the game on the line with us only up by 3 points in the 4th quarter, I like to see what you call successful on defense. Yah, those guys make me want to get rid of Carr.

rmartin65
01-26-2007, 02:06 PM
I dont think he will be traded. And what happened to the people saying he should get a year or a year and a half of grading time?

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2007, 02:13 PM
You might as well throw in Dave Ragone into that scenario because none of them impressed me when they were in there when it counts. Seriously. If you calll Tony Banks' 2 key interceptions in the Bush bowl successful or Sage's 1 for 3 9 yard 1 sack performance against Jacksonville with the game on the line with us only up by 3 points in the 4th quarter, I like to see what you call successful on defense. Yah, those guys make me want to get rid of Carr.

It should have been 2/3 for Sage but they ruled that Daniels dropped the pass .... hey I can use excuses to .

Kaiser Toro
01-26-2007, 02:17 PM
You might as well throw in Dave Ragone into that scenario because none of them impressed me when they were in there when it counts. Seriously. If you calll Tony Banks' 2 key interceptions in the Bush bowl successful or Sage's 1 for 3 9 yard 1 sack performance against Jacksonville with the game on the line with us only up by 3 points in the 4th quarter, I like to see what you call successful on defense. Yah, those guys make me want to get rid of Carr.

Looks like we have a vote of confidence for overpriced QB play.

thunderkyss
01-26-2007, 02:49 PM
I dont think he will be traded. And what happened to the people saying he should get a year or a year and a half of grading time?

I was wondering the same thing as well....

I wonder why the sudden change. Carr hasn't been playing any worse than he had earlier in the season. Sure the results in the Raiders, Patriot, & Jets games were lackluster(at best) but it was the same old Carr that played in the 115.1 QB rating loss to the Colts in week two. Actually, he had improved in consistency of his foot work, and in his resolve to throw the ball.

I'd like to know what those guys expected to see from Carr his first year under Kubiak.

The Pencil Neck
01-26-2007, 04:09 PM
I dont think he will be traded. And what happened to the people saying he should get a year or a year and a half of grading time?

Way back in preseason, I said he should have a full season before grading and figuring out where to go. Well, it has been a full season and if the last several games of the season showed me anything it's that David Carr is not The Man. It's time to treat the QB position as a position that needs serious attention. Unfortunately, I think Carr's very lucky that this is a bad draft to find QB's for the future. I don't see how we're going to be able to get rid of Carr but I think it would be best for both parties if we did. I think we need to find a temporary, older QB that we can win with (ie, won't hurt us) for 2-3 years and find a young QB to take over the reins after that.

I don't think Carr is that temporary QB.

Buckle
01-26-2007, 04:18 PM
actually for everything that I have heard about Kubiaks offense is that it takes usually until year 2 for the QB to feel completely comfortable in his system.

HJam72
01-26-2007, 04:19 PM
Much like The Pencil Neck, I wanted to give Carr a year with Kubiak and have been disappointed with the results. I think it could be argued, because of the lack of QB talent in this draft (from what I hear) and Carr's money situation, that we need to keep him, maybe even until his contract is up, but I totally agree that Carr doesn't seem at all to be the long term answer. I thought he would be and it can still be argued that the O-line isn't protecting him well enough, etc., but there's too many reasons to not have faith in him as our QB anymore and my defense of him has been all used up for about half of this season.

I will be a Texans fan whether Carr is with us or not. I will probably root for Carr if he's on another team, but I won't be expecting much--not anymore. The Texans are what matters.

HJam72
01-26-2007, 04:22 PM
actually for everything that I have heard about Kubiaks offense is that it takes usually until year 2 for the QB to feel completely comfortable in his system.

I'm still hoping that will turn out to be the case with Carr, but I wouldn't wait to find out if we got our chance to trade him.

I do think that SWTBound is right and Carr ain't goin' nowhere, but I'm with the "he should go" crowd at this point. I'm not with the "get rid of him at all costs and maybe even just take the best QB available in this crummy-QB-draft" crowd though.

thunderkyss
01-26-2007, 04:33 PM
Much like The Pencil Neck, I wanted to give Carr a year with Kubiak and have been disappointed with the results. I think it could be argued, because of the lack of QB talent in this draft (from what I hear) and Carr's money situation, that we need to keep him, maybe even until his contract is up, but I totally agree that Carr doesn't seem at all to be the long term answer. I thought he would be and it can still be argued that the O-line isn't protecting him well enough, etc., but there's too many reasons to not have faith in him as our QB anymore and my defense of him has been all used up for about half of this season.

I will be a Texans fan whether Carr is with us or not. I will probably root for Carr if he's on another team, but I won't be expecting much--not anymore. The Texans are what matters.

Would you mind being specific about how Carr disappointed you, and what exactly were you expecting??

People like Vinny have questioned his accuracy for years now, his reluctance to challenge a cover two, and his inability to beat the blitz........

were these things you thought David could fix, or were you unaware of the problems??

He's probably led QBs in fumbles over the last 4 years(understandably so), was this years fumblitus part of the reason you gave up on Carr, or did you expect it, and it not factor into your opinion of David??

Or was it his constant decisions to throw the five yard pattern when we needed 15 on third down??

& if I may....... what about him makes it better for us to keep him?? Especially if the goal is to have him play out his contract, and replace him in two years. Does Carr give us a better chance to win than Plummer, Garcia, Sage, Batch, Griese, etc.............

PapaL
01-26-2007, 05:12 PM
Regardless if Carr is here or not, we need another QB to step up this year. Be it someone on the roster, or a new guy. If we draft someone and keep Carr, then they would have been in our system come '08 when we really get rid of him. Plus our current backups would have been in the system for 3 years; no excuse to not perform.

old football fan
01-26-2007, 05:13 PM
Griese-Can't seem to stay with one team. Backup at best. Batch-Good for one or two games but no more. Career backup. Sage-6 years as a backup on 3 teams. Enough said. Plummer-Had his starting position taken by a Rookie after being in AFC Champ game year before. Garcia-to old and had one good year but has been on 4 different teams. Carr may not be any good as our QB but I would rather have him here.

Texian
01-26-2007, 05:29 PM
I am with SWT Carr is not going anywhere. Evaluations will show that Carr's performance deteriorated in sync with the injuries to the OLine. The running game had the same problems.

Carr Bombed
01-26-2007, 05:38 PM
I think we should pick up Kolb in the middle rounds and groom him, behind Carr, if we can't move him. If Carr some how comes out of his shell and blossoms into a franchise QB, great, we can trade Kolb, if he doesn't, we don't resign Carr and the Kolb era begins.

I really think we need to find a decent QB that can compete against Carr, Five training camps and we've never had anyone to push Carr.

edo783
01-26-2007, 05:48 PM
I think we should pick up Kolb in the middle rounds and groom him, behind Carr, if we can't move him. If Carr some how comes out of his shell and blossoms into a franchise QB, great, we can trade Kolb, if he doesn't, we don't resign Carr and the Kolb era begins.

I really think we need to find a decent QB that can compete against Carr, Five training camps and we've never had anyone to push Carr.

Pretty much my thoughts.

Porky
01-26-2007, 05:56 PM
I don't think Kolb will be there in the middle rounds. In fact, I'm not even sure he will be there for us in rd 2. I here that he is moving up the boards much like Cutler did last year. He may very well end up in rd 1 when it's all said and done.

TexansSeminole
01-26-2007, 06:02 PM
If a guy like Troy Smith falls to us in the second round take him but if we draft a QB this year after that time we are taking someone who historically will not give an impact immediately. We have so many needs other than QB that we can address in this draft that would more likely give an impact immediately to our team.

A free agent like Plummer is our best option IMO.

SESupergenius
01-26-2007, 06:26 PM
Looks like we have a vote of confidence for overpriced QB play.

Nah, just be credible by naming someone that has done better with what we have. Now if you say that we are bringing in Plummer and you think he'll do better than guy, they I'd buy that, but I won't subscribe to things that are pulled out of the air.

Kaiser Toro
01-26-2007, 06:36 PM
Nah, just be credible by naming someone that has done better with what we have. Now if you say that we are bringing in Plummer and you think he'll do better than guy, they I'd buy that, but I won't subscribe to things that are pulled out of the air.

I am not a Plummer fan, but I am fan of change under center for this team. What is Carr's value proposition to this team? Honestly after five years what is his value to the offense? We know the price tag for his service, but the only thing being pulled out of the air is the implication that he adds value to this offense.

Double Barrel
01-26-2007, 06:39 PM
A team looking for a backup QB.

A very expensive backup QB.

Now back to topic: I do not think we'll get an offer for a third round pick for Carr. I think teams are scared off a little bit by how Kubiak "The Quarterback Redeemer" came in and in one year is already potentially shopping Carr...throw in the speculation that we might be pursuing Plummer to fill Carr's shoes and it makes me think teams wonder just how good David could be if we're thinking of going with Jake over David.

Good point about potential perceptions of DC after working with Kubiak for a season.

I'm not sold on Plummer, either, and definitely not at the price we might have to pay.

If Rex Grossman can be in the Super Bowl, then I don't see why we cannot build a team that allows a servicable QB - whose focus should be on minimizing mistakes - to find success. We know Carr will not be a 4th qrt. Captain Comeback, but he doesn't have to be. We need him to perform his designed role and allow the rest of the team to carry the burden.

Draft a kid to develop, and if we can't find someone BETTER, then give Super Dave another shot. But make him compete for the job in TC this time. Nothing should be handed to him from this point forward.

hollywood_texan
01-26-2007, 06:55 PM
If Rex Grossman can be in the Super Bowl, then I don't see why we cannot build a team that allows a servicable QB - whose focus should be on minimizing mistakes - to find success. We know Carr will not be a 4th qrt. Captain Comeback, but he doesn't have to be. We need him to perform his designed role and allow the rest of the team to carry the burden.

Draft a kid to develop, and if we can't find someone BETTER, then give Super Dave another shot. But make him compete for the job in TC this time. Nothing should be handed to him from this point forward.

Rex has had some bad games, but there are times where he makes very tough throws that I still haven't seen Carr make. And, I am not so sure if Carr had all the time in the world, he could make those deep middle passes like Grossman does when he is on like Donkey Kong.

Bottom line, Rex can really stink up the joint but can play pretty good at times. If he really minimized the bad mistakes, he would be a very highly regarded QB. Whereas Carr just doesn't seem to have that huge upside.

It seems plainly clear that Carr is going to get another year to prove the huge upside...

NATHANHALE
01-26-2007, 08:16 PM
A very expensive backup QB.



Good point about potential perceptions of DC after working with Kubiak for a season.

I'm not sold on Plummer, either, and definitely not at the price we might have to pay.

If Rex Grossman can be in the Super Bowl, then I don't see why we cannot build a team that allows a servicable QB - whose focus should be on minimizing mistakes - to find success. We know Carr will not be a 4th qrt. Captain Comeback, but he doesn't have to be. We need him to perform his designed role and allow the rest of the team to carry the burden.

Draft a kid to develop, and if we can't find someone BETTER, then give Super Dave another shot. But make him compete for the job in TC this time. Nothing should be handed to him from this point forward.

I have a problem paying Carr starter money to do what a back-up can do...

Double Barrel
01-26-2007, 08:31 PM
Rex has had some bad games, but there are times where he makes very tough throws that I still haven't seen Carr make. And, I am not so sure if Carr had all the time in the world, he could make those deep middle passes like Grossman does when he is on like Donkey Kong.

Bottom line, Rex can really stink up the joint but can play pretty good at times. If he really minimized the bad mistakes, he would be a very highly regarded QB. Whereas Carr just doesn't seem to have that huge upside.

It seems plainly clear that Carr is going to get another year to prove the huge upside...

I have a problem paying Carr starter money to do what a back-up can do...

I don't disagree with either of you.

BUT, I think Grossman benefits from a much better o-line than we've got (which allows him more opportunities to make plays down the field). He's just as inconsistent as Carr, though, so that's why I prefaced my statement with needing Carr to be "a servicable QB - whose focus should be on minimizing mistakes".

With regards to his salary, we're just going to have to live with the fact that we're screwed. We'll pay a lot on him regardless if he stays or goes, so we'll have to find another starting QB who is better than him to justify making a move. I'm not so sure that Plummer or Rosenfels can be that QB for us.

Toro
01-26-2007, 08:45 PM
Man, I like Sage as much as anyone, but the guy couldn't beat out AJ Feely or Gus Ferrotte. He's a good backup, but nothing more.

Garcia? Keep in mind, while he had a very good run filling in for McNabb, he was also atrocious in Detroit and Cleveland.

Plummer is wildly inconsistent. One game, he'll look like the second coming of Elway, the next he looks like he should be carrying a clipboard for an Arena Football team.

My thing here is this-- sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

That being said, Carr's days here are numbered. He's been too sporatic, too inconsistent and the excuses are starting to get old. I don't know if any of these options are really feasable, but I wouldn't mind seeing Houston pick a QB on Day 1.

thunderkyss
01-26-2007, 08:48 PM
A very expensive backup QB.



Good point about potential perceptions of DC after working with Kubiak for a season.

I'm not sold on Plummer, either, and definitely not at the price we might have to pay.

If Rex Grossman can be in the Super Bowl, then I don't see why we cannot build a team that allows a servicable QB - whose focus should be on minimizing mistakes - to find success. We know Carr will not be a 4th qrt. Captain Comeback, but he doesn't have to be. We need him to perform his designed role and allow the rest of the team to carry the burden.

Draft a kid to develop, and if we can't find someone BETTER, then give Super Dave another shot. But make him compete for the job in TC this time. Nothing should be handed to him from this point forward.

If he is cut from Denver..... If..... I think Jake will play for us if we promise to let him start....... nothing crazy in way of salary or anything like that. How many teams are willing to name him the starter from Day 1?? No competition??

Rex has had some bad games, but there are times where he makes very tough throws that I still haven't seen Carr make. And, I am not so sure if Carr had all the time in the world, he could make those deep middle passes like Grossman does when he is on like Donkey Kong.

Bottom line, Rex can really stink up the joint but can play pretty good at times. If he really minimized the bad mistakes, he would be a very highly regarded QB. Whereas Carr just doesn't seem to have that huge upside.

It seems plainly clear that Carr is going to get another year to prove the huge upside...

The Chicago Bears came out flat after the second half, 2 drives where they couldn't run the ball, they couldn't pick up a first down.

Then Rex went 4 for 4 for 78 yards and a touchdown on the following drive....

that was clutch.....

that was taking your team on your shoulders, when the run game isn't working.

Yeah, BB made that Hellafied catch....... but other than that, it was all Rex.

The Pencil Neck
01-26-2007, 08:49 PM
Would you mind being specific about how Carr disappointed you, and what exactly were you expecting??

Not really the one you were responding to but:

I was expecting more yards, a higher ypa, more touchdowns, less interceptions, and less fumbles. I was expecting him to look more comfortable in the pocket and to make better decisions. He doesn't seem to have the big arm anymore that was supposed to be his biggest strength and he doesn't seem to be able to tell when someone is open.

thunderkyss
01-26-2007, 08:50 PM
Man, I like Sage as much as anyone, but the guy couldn't beat out AJ Feely or Gus Ferrotte. He's a good backup, but nothing more.

Tom Brady couldn't beat out Drew Henson.......

Delhomme couldn't beat out Aaron Brooks.....

Romo couldn't beat out Quincy Carter, or Vinny Testeverde.....

Toro
01-26-2007, 09:00 PM
Tom Brady couldn't beat out Drew Henson.......

Delhomme couldn't beat out Aaron Brooks.....

Romo couldn't beat out Quincy Carter, or Vinny Testeverde.....

Point taken.

HJam72
01-26-2007, 09:10 PM
Would you mind being specific about how Carr disappointed you, and what exactly were you expecting??

People like Vinny have questioned his accuracy for years now, his reluctance to challenge a cover two, and his inability to beat the blitz........

were these things you thought David could fix, or were you unaware of the problems??

He's probably led QBs in fumbles over the last 4 years(understandably so), was this years fumblitus part of the reason you gave up on Carr, or did you expect it, and it not factor into your opinion of David??

Or was it his constant decisions to throw the five yard pattern when we needed 15 on third down??

& if I may....... what about him makes it better for us to keep him?? Especially if the goal is to have him play out his contract, and replace him in two years. Does Carr give us a better chance to win than Plummer, Garcia, Sage, Batch, Griese, etc.............

The fumbles were part of it, but it's mainly the inability to find anyone open deep and then the inability to throw an accurate pass to them if he does find them. I can obviously think of a lot of excuses for him with regards to that, but he's now had a year with Kubiak and 5 yrs. with this team.

As far as the question about who would be better, I really don't know. I doubt that Sage would really be better, but it's always possible. He didn't do much in the regular season when he had a chance, although it was rare that he did. I don't follow those other teams much. I have a feeling that Plummer would be a huge improvement, but (of course) inconsistent.

Double Barrel
01-26-2007, 09:47 PM
If he is cut from Denver..... If..... I think Jake will play for us if we promise to let him start....... nothing crazy in way of salary or anything like that. How many teams are willing to name him the starter from Day 1?? No competition??

yep, I can see it happening if he's cut. Denver wants something for him, but if Plummer is conditional on starting, there's only one team that gives him the best shot at that guarantee. So we could just wait it out and take that chance.

The Chicago Bears came out flat after the second half, 2 drives where they couldn't run the ball, they couldn't pick up a first down.

Then Rex went 4 for 4 for 78 yards and a touchdown on the following drive....

that was clutch.....

that was taking your team on your shoulders, when the run game isn't working.

Yeah, BB made that Hellafied catch....... but other than that, it was all Rex.

What were Carr's number for that last drive of the Colts game? I don't recall the numbers.

I remember the 17 yard completion to AJ. That was a clutch situation. Even though it was our running game that carried the day, DC still avoided mistakes and did make some plays when needed. And he helped put us in a position to win, which was the best victory we've had in years.

BattleRedToro
01-26-2007, 09:54 PM
All the people that want to constantly blame David Carr for where the Texans Organization is when it pertains to being competitive on the football field should just take a trip down memory lane and look at the past Texans Drafts.

TEXANS NFL DRAFT SELECTIONS

2002 (drafted first)

Round 1: QB David Carr ( Fresno State , first overall)
Round 2: WR Jabar Gaffney ( Florida , 33); G/T Chester Pitts ( San Diego State , 50)

Round 3: G Fred Weary ( Tennessee , 66); DT Charles Hill ( Maryland , 83)

Round 4: RB Jonathan Wells ( Ohio State , 99)

Round 5: FB Jarrod Baxter ( New Mexico , 136); FS Ramon Walker ( Pittsburgh , 153)

Round 6: CB DeMarcus Faggins ( Kansas State , 173); DT Howard Green (LSU, 190)

Round 7: LB Greg White ( Minnesota , 229); DT Ahmad Miller (UNLV, 261)

Supplemental Draft

Round 6: G Milford Brown ( Florida State )

2003 (drafted third)

Round 1: WR Andre Johnson ( Miami , third overall)
Round 2: TE Bennie Joppru ( Michigan , 41)

Round 3: LB Antwan Peek ( Cincinnati , 67); T Seth Wand ( N.W. Missouri State , 75); QB Dave Ragone ( Louisville , 88)

Round 4: RB Domanick Williams (Davis) (LSU, 104)

Round 6: QB Drew Henson ( Michigan , 192); DT Keith Wright ( Missouri , 214)

Round 7: SS Curry Burns ( Louisville , 217); LS Chance Pearce ( Texas A&M, 233)

Supplemental Draft

Round 2: RB Tony Hollings (Georgia Tech)

2004 (drafted 10 th)

Round 1: CB Dunta Robinson ( South Carolina , 10 th overall); LB Jason Babin ( Western Michigan , 27)
Round 2: Traded to Tennessee

Round 3: Traded to Tennessee

Round 4: SS Glenn Earl (Notre Dame, 122)

Round 6: CB Vontez Duff (Notre Dame, 170); FS Jammal Lord ( Nebraska , 175); LB Charlie Anderson ( Mississippi , 200)

Round 7: LB Raheem Orr (Rutgers, 210); WR Sloan Thomas ( Texas , 211); QB B.J. Symons ( Texas Tech, 248)

2005 (drafted 13 th)

Round 1: DT Travis Johnson ( Florida State , 16 th overall)
Round 2: Traded to Oakland for CB Phillip Buchanon

Round 3: RB Vernand Mornecy( Oklahoma State , 73)

Round 4: WR Jerome Mathis ( Hampton , 114)

Round 5: C Drew Hodgdon ( Arizona State , 151)

Round 6: SS C.C. Brown (La.-Lafayette, 188)

Round 7: LB Kenneth Pettway ( Grambling State , 227)

2006 (drafted first)

Round 1: DE Mario Williams ( North Carolina State , first overall)
Round 2: LB DeMeco Ryans ( Alabama , 33)

Round 3: T Charles Spencer ( Pittsburgh , 65); T Eric Winston ( Miami , 66)

Round 4: TE Owen Daniels ( Wisconsin , 98)

Round 5: Traded to Buffalo for WR Eric Moulds

Round 6: RB Wali Lundy ( Virginia , 170)

Round 7: WR David Anderson ( Colorado State , 251)

Bold indicates no longer on Texans roster.

When a team wastes 24 picks over a 4 year period that is why the team is not competitive. Hopefully the Texans will have another good draft this year to add to the remnants of the first 4 bad drafts and the 1 solid draft from last year. After a few solid drafts in a row the Texans will be the team that all us Texans fans want them to be, with or without Carr. I think it is terribly narrow sighted to focus all the attention on David Carr or any QB for that matter instead of focusing on the bigger picture of the Texans Organization building a Super Bowl caliber team piece by piece. There are so many other problems on the Texans that need to be addressed first that it seems foolish to use any pick on a QB this year. I would much rather the Texans draft a QB in 2008 or 2009 and in the meantime build up the rest of the team. If the coaches truly don't believe that Carr is the right guy to play QB for the Texans then I would rather they sign a Free Agent QB then draft a QB until most of the other problems are fixed.

thunderkyss
01-26-2007, 11:46 PM
What were Carr's number for that last drive of the Colts game? I don't recall the numbers.

I remember the 17 yard completion to AJ. That was a clutch situation. Even though it was our running game that carried the day, DC still avoided mistakes and did make some plays when needed. And he helped put us in a position to win, which was the best victory we've had in years.

I don't have a problem with Carr being in Houston in '07...... I just don't think he should be starting.......

I don't think he gave us the best chance to win in '06, I can't see how he could give us the best chance to win in '07.

The fans in Chicago would be happy if Griese was named their starter the day after they win the SuperBowl........ or....... the very day they lose it. My Point?? Just because you can win with "so & so" at QB, doesn't mean you should keep sending his ass out there.

could David perform better with better protection??

I seriously don't know.... there are some basic things about football David doesn't know. Like what are some of the reasons you'd line your Tightend wide right as a wide reciever?? If it's a run play to the right side, & that TE is covered by a DE converted to LB.......... should you motion that TE to the right side of your line, bringing the DE with him?? Or would you rather the TE block that DE converted to a LB out there on the sideline as opposed to off the right tackle where your run is designed to go??

Or, let's say you are going to run the reverse..... WR slot left....... with a LB covering him on the LOS..... motion that WR in the slot to the right tackle, and what do you expect to happen?? Do You expect that LB to follow that WR to the right side?? IF he doesn't, what does that tell you?? IF he stays on the LOS with no one to cover.... what do you think he is going to do??

You can't audible...... not allowed...... why not?? YOu could call a timeout, because you know the reverse isn't going to go anywhere.... you more than likely will lose yardage...

you could just give the ball to the RB, because that WR you just motioned to the right side has no one to block.. you have the numbers advantage on the right side.....

& there's more.... lots more.....

I've honestly seen improvement in the things David is doing...... If you told me Kubiak was pleased with David's development, and he was still confident that we could win the big one with David..... I'd believe you(I'd be upset, but I'd believe you).

But I like I said before.... best chance to win... not Dave. If he's starting, expect another blah season, because we(he) aren't(isn't) ready to start winning.

Put Plummer back there, and he might throw twice the number of INTs that David threw in '06, but I bet we win more games.

Put Sage back there, and he'll probably screw up........ but at least we won't be able to blame David for the Lines Lackluster performance, and David & the Houston fans can write '06 off to the OL again, with a clean conscious, and the Carr lovers can feel vindicated.

Aztequila
01-27-2007, 12:25 AM
I can't believe I'm reading some of these posts. You people are actually talking about Rex Grossman being better than DC. I'm not saying DC is Joe Montana, but come on Rex Grossman as a guy that puts the team on his shoulders. Give me a break. All you hear is how the Bears can win with their defense, all Grossman has to do is not lose the game. In my opinion, that is all he does. He lead the team on a TD drive against the saints. You swear David Carr has never lead the team to the End Zone. Some of these arguments are terrible, lets get back to reality. The Bears were one hell of team this year, Rex Grossman was not one hell of QB. The Texans, though improved, were sub-par this year, and so was DC. I've said it before, DC plays as well as the people around him, not the best defense of the guy, but its true. If the Texans are playing well, he plays well. Unfortunately he doesnt have the luxury that Rex has where he can play like crap and have rest of the team pick him up, with the exception of the Raiders game. I hope to see DC back and see what he can do with a better team and more Kubiak experience. After next year, mid season or even training camp, there will be no excuses.

CoachJim
01-27-2007, 06:48 AM
Indulge me for one second readers ... Imagine Rex Grossman playing in the current Texans offense with the exact weapons & protection (pfft!) that DCarr has to work with.

Not a pretty site, huh? IMHO even uglier than what we got now ... by miles.

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2007, 07:20 AM
So who on the Bears reciever core is better than AJ or Moulds ?

Silver Oak
01-27-2007, 07:31 AM
I'll state my position on this worn subject again.....

We have many more pressing positions to fill before we replace the qb. Let Carr compete for the job in camp this summer against veteran players, and sometime in the next two drafts, bring in a rookie to learn while DC plays and the team builds its foundation.

Haams
01-27-2007, 07:56 AM
Griese-Can't seem to stay with one team. Backup at best. Batch-Good for one or two games but no more. Career backup. Sage-6 years as a backup on 3 teams. Enough said. Plummer-Had his starting position taken by a Rookie after being in AFC Champ game year before. Garcia-to old and had one good year but has been on 4 different teams...


...and what do these QB's all have in common? THEY'RE ALL BETTER THAN CARR.

BattleRedToro
01-27-2007, 12:02 PM
... there are some basic things about football David doesn't know.

First, we don't know how much flexibility David Carr is allowed in the play calling and audibling aspects of the game. We know that David Carr does not call the plays because Kubiak has stated that himself, Calhoun, and Sherman shared those duties during this past season. We also know that there are only a certain number of plays David Carr can audible into because again Kubiak has said such, but what we do not know is how many plays and what types of plays those are. Unless you are privy to such knowledge, you are making an assumption based on information you don't know. Therefore your entire post is merely conjecture and as worthless an opinion as someone that bases their opinion on a player's statistics without watching the games.

old football fan
01-27-2007, 12:49 PM
You must have gone to UT. Sorry I forgot to add pictures to my post for you UT grads. Plus I didn't say that Carr was better or worse than those QB's. Just about the same.

South Texan
01-27-2007, 01:22 PM
I'll state my position on this worn subject again.....

We have many more pressing positions to fill before we replace the qb. Let Carr compete for the job in camp this summer against veteran players, and sometime in the next two drafts, bring in a rookie to learn while DC plays and the team builds its foundation.

That's two of us thinking alike. Fix the O-Line and secondary then worry about a QB. I am still convinced that Carr's problems are more mental than lack of physical talent. Given a little more time Kubiak may be able to fix that to the point where Carr is consistant. Meanwhile, look for a steal on a QB in later rounds (we got DD/DW in the sixth as I recall, DeMeco didn't go in the first where I expected him to go) and groom him for a year or two.

HJam72
01-27-2007, 02:37 PM
I'll state my position on this worn subject again.....

We have many more pressing positions to fill before we replace the qb. Let Carr compete for the job in camp this summer against veteran players, and sometime in the next two drafts, bring in a rookie to learn while DC plays and the team builds its foundation.

Looks like the probable answer to me.

HoustonFrog
01-27-2007, 04:36 PM
I'll state my position on this worn subject again.....

We have many more pressing positions to fill before we replace the qb. Let Carr compete for the job in camp this summer against veteran players, and sometime in the next two drafts, bring in a rookie to learn while DC plays and the team builds its foundation.

I'll put what I put in the other thread..
I think the Carr situation took on a life of its own a couple of years back. The problem now is that you have players(IMHO), fans and coaches who aren't sure if they can trust the guy in games and who are tired of the rhetoric. People are already off his bandwagon by a country mile. After 5 years he still hasn't shown that he can master the basics of being an NFL QB and even with competition you are still setting yourself up for those who will boo and want your backup or they will boo and want to hold onto their Carr fantasy like they have too long already. It sets up for a team divided. The best bet is to ship him off, wish him luck and hope you both do better with a change of scenery. We can get a FA QB who is probably a better fit at this time and we can draft a guy to groom. All in all the whole "Carr" fiasco won't be a lingering cloud like it has been for the last 2 years. The only thing I see competition as bringing at this point is team and fan base divided and debating a year too long. Never underestimate how this stuff affects a team.

NATHANHALE
01-27-2007, 05:39 PM
You must have gone to UT. Sorry I forgot to add pictures to my post for you UT grads. Plus I didn't say that Carr was better or worse than those QB's. Just about the same.

UT has the best winning record over the last 10 yrs? Brown's teams have been to like 17 straight bowl games? UT has 2 starting QBs in the NFL!

...not sure where you went to college but picking a very successful school for your 'inuendos' is kinda 'telling'...again, what's your alma mater?

QB75
01-27-2007, 05:46 PM
I have a problem paying Carr starter money to do what a back-up can do...

Well I don't think that you are paying it, so it's not a problem. Carr is going to camp.

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2007, 09:54 PM
How in the hell does anyone know if Carr's gonna go to camp with the Texans .

Dime
01-27-2007, 09:59 PM
Well I don't think that you are paying it, so it's not a problem. Carr is going to camp.

Ya.. but who's is the question.. Rofl

dantem
01-28-2007, 12:13 AM
I'll put what I put in the other thread..
I think the Carr situation took on a life of its own a couple of years back. The problem now is that you have players(IMHO), fans and coaches who aren't sure if they can trust the guy in games and who are tired of the rhetoric. People are already off his bandwagon by a country mile. After 5 years he still hasn't shown that he can master the basics of being an NFL QB and even with competition you are still setting yourself up for those who will boo and want your backup or they will boo and want to hold onto their Carr fantasy like they have too long already. It sets up for a team divided. The best bet is to ship him off, wish him luck and hope you both do better with a change of scenery. We can get a FA QB who is probably a better fit at this time and we can draft a guy to groom. All in all the whole "Carr" fiasco won't be a lingering cloud like it has been for the last 2 years. The only thing I see competition as bringing at this point is team and fan base divided and debating a year too long. Never underestimate how this stuff affects a team.

Your response is based on your own biased assumptions that the coaches, and the other players share the same lack of confidence/bitterness toward Carr that you do. The fact is only a portion of the fan base agrees with you, and so far, none of the coaches or players have indicated that they share that opinion. Your putting your own words into thier mouths.

The Carr situation has only been made a fiasco by folks like yourself who can't seem to understand that football games are won or lost as a team, not by a single player. Just because a few radio personalities and a group of bitter fans have been pushing to make Carr's career in Houston come to an end does not mean it will happen, All you can do at this point is believe your own talk and hope it comes true.

Do any of you remember last year when everyone was sure the Texans would take Reggie Bush?

Personally I don't really care what they do with Carr at this point, I don't see replacing him as a plus or minus for the team. He is as good as anyone who we could get this year to replace him, so it doesn't matter to me either way,

Spled
01-28-2007, 12:17 AM
I'd hate to give up a number 1 overall for a 3rd rounder. Look at what Carr had to deal with last year - 3 injuries on the O-line, no big time running back and no real speed receiver.

Keep in mind he walked into an expansion team. Study any expansion team in league history and you'll find that it takes years to develop them.

Jake "The Snake" or Garcia are not long term answers, so if you get them you will have to use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a quarterback. Better to use that pick on another need. If you surround Carr with the right talent, he might be the guy for another 10 years.

sleepwalker
01-28-2007, 08:15 AM
Carr isnt even worth a 3rd round pick......He's not even worth 8th and we have that already.

Some of you want to just cut Carr and let Sage have the starting job....I think you're crazy, but I will save that for another thread.

So I guess it's Carr, Sage or Plummer....If these options don't make you vomit in your mouth a little then you need to check your pulse.

We couldnt get a 3rd round pick for all these players combined.
1. Carr
2. Travis Johnson
3. Babin
4. Davis
5. Seth Payne
6. Entire OL

aj.
01-28-2007, 08:29 AM
If you surround Carr with the right talent...


http://photos21.flickr.com/30543342_b703a20c87_m.jpg
bbI can't take it any more!!!

SamuraiSword
01-28-2007, 09:15 AM
Well I don't think that you are paying it, so it's not a problem. Carr is going to camp.

David is that you? BTW yes fans do pay for your....i mean his salary. Where do you think the funds come from? We buy the tickets,vendors,food,drinks. If no money is comming in then Mcnair is losing revenue. I don't have buisness mechanics and I know this...:aikido:

Malloy
01-28-2007, 09:28 AM
http://photos21.flickr.com/30543342_b703a20c87_m.jpg
bbI can't take it any more!!!

I agree, I'm getting real tierd of this 'argument' :)

aj.
01-28-2007, 09:32 AM
David is that you?

No, but you're warm.

The "we're not paying for it so shut up" comment was ignorant and arrogant, not to mention a bit offensive to those who are trying to budget for the season ticket renewals that were just recived in the mail.

Texans average ticket cost ~ $60

Approx 55,000 season ticket holders.

55,000 x 60 = $3.3 million per game x 10 games = $33 million per season on season ticket revenues alone.*

That doesn't include single game ticket sales, concessions, and parking.

Nah....we don't pay for it so just shut the hell up and enjoy it.

*Coincidentally, Carr has cashed about $35 million in real checks since he's been here so it took an entire year of season ticket sales just to pay his salary since he's been here.

Honoring Earl 34
01-28-2007, 09:56 AM
Well lets see .... hmmm .... Carr is a QB and Hulk is Hulk75 .... what do these things have in common with QB 75 .

Dime
01-28-2007, 10:08 AM
Carr isnt even worth a 3rd round pick......He's not even worth 8th and we have that already.

Some of you want to just cut Carr and let Sage have the starting job....I think you're crazy, but I will save that for another thread.

So I guess it's Carr, Sage or Plummer....If these options don't make you vomit in your mouth a little then you need to check your pulse.

We couldnt get a 3rd round pick for all these players combined.
1. Carr
2. Travis Johnson
3. Babin
4. Davis
5. Seth Payne
6. Entire OL


Why do people like this even talk here??/
Carr should go for at least a 3rd.
Babin would get at least a 3rd.
etc..
Wow, just wasted time responding to a statement.. i should know better.

wolfscar
01-28-2007, 01:44 PM
:deadhorse

I'll state my position on this worn subject again.....

We have many more pressing positions to fill before we replace the qb. Let Carr compete for the job in camp this summer against veteran players, and sometime in the next two drafts, bring in a rookie to learn while DC plays and the team builds its foundation.

Yes - thankyou - nailed it. Let's move on.

HJam72
01-28-2007, 01:54 PM
Why do people like this even talk here??/
Carr should go for at least a 3rd.
Babin would get at least a 3rd.
etc..
Wow, just wasted time responding to a statement.. i should know better.

That's what I was thinking. Talk about exagerations.

QB75
01-28-2007, 06:45 PM
David is that you? BTW yes fans do pay for your....i mean his salary. Where do you think the funds come from? We buy the tickets,vendors,food,drinks. If no money is comming in then Mcnair is losing revenue. I don't have buisness mechanics and I know this...:aikido:

Jake, is that you? And oh yeah, nice try on the accounting lesson.

Mr. White
01-28-2007, 07:02 PM
Jake, is that you? And oh yeah, nice try on the accounting lesson.

I think that this is a pretty good accounting lesson below. I say "Roger that" to it.

No, but you're warm.

The "we're not paying for it so shut up" comment was ignorant and arrogant, not to mention a bit offensive to those who are trying to budget for the season ticket renewals that were just recived in the mail.

Texans average ticket cost ~ $60

Approx 55,000 season ticket holders.

55,000 x 60 = $3.3 million per game x 10 games = $33 million per season on season ticket revenues alone.*

That doesn't include single game ticket sales, concessions, and parking.

Nah....we don't pay for it so just shut the hell up and enjoy it.

*Coincidentally, Carr has cashed about $35 million in real checks since he's been here so it took an entire year of season ticket sales just to pay his salary since he's been here.

QB75
01-28-2007, 07:33 PM
Carr has had two good years in his last eight. Those two good years were at the same program that Trent Dilfer and Billy Volek prospered. When you strip it down we have a Fresno State Quarterback making USC Quarterback money. We have been a joke because we drafted a joke. When we take Carr out of the equation - Sage, Tony Banks and limit Carr's passing we are pretty darn successful as compared to Carr passing the ball

The day Carr leaves will be the best day ever for Texan fans. Carr fans not so much.

Good thing for Carr fans that day is a long way off.

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2007, 07:49 PM
No, but you're warm.

The "we're not paying for it so shut up" comment was ignorant and arrogant, not to mention a bit offensive to those who are trying to budget for the season ticket renewals that were just recived in the mail.

Texans average ticket cost ~ $60

Approx 55,000 season ticket holders.

55,000 x 60 = $3.3 million per game x 10 games = $33 million per season on season ticket revenues alone.*

That doesn't include single game ticket sales, concessions, and parking.

Nah....we don't pay for it so just shut the hell up and enjoy it.

*Coincidentally, Carr has cashed about $35 million in real checks since he's been here so it took an entire year of season ticket sales just to pay his salary since he's been here.

Thank you for spelling it out AJ. This is what the few Californian folks who are on this board understand, but do not acknowledge because of the agenda they have although they have no financial investment in this thing we call the Texans.

Whoever said we don't pay for it is obviously not a Texans' fan, but is a Carr fan. Anyone who is a Texans' fan knows that we have been paying for it ever since we drafted that college football player in 2002 - on the field and in our pocketbooks.

Navy_Chris
01-28-2007, 07:49 PM
Did any of you hear what David had to say a couple months ago when asked if he thought his job here was in jeopardy?

He said he didn't care if we win or lose, it's still football. As long as he's out there playing...it really doesn't matter.

What kind of winner talks like that? We need to cut our losses before he wastes any more of our time and money. What a waste!

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2007, 07:51 PM
Good thing for Carr fans that day is a long way off.

And good riddance to bad rubbish when the end result is only Texans' fans on this board.

Honoring Earl 34
01-28-2007, 08:19 PM
Brenda Warner, the wife of former St. Louis Rams quarterback Kurt Warner, is up to her old tricks again. Mrs. Warner said in an interview on St Louis radio station WMLL Monday that her husband would welcome a trade if he is not the Rams starting quarterback by the end of the season.

When asked if her husband would seek a trade at the end of the season Brenda Warner said, "Probably, just from the point that we (we?) want to play, he wants to play, plain and simple. So, if he's not going to play here, then he wants to play somewhere."

Does this remind anyone of anybody ?

NATHANHALE
01-28-2007, 09:31 PM
And good riddance to bad rubbish when the end result is only Texans' fans on this board.

...can there actually be one day we have a thread that doesn't have a post that list all the excuses for Carr's sub-performance on the field? I mean, we seldom here about V&B, but--without fail-- a day does not go by that some :homer: thinks we need to be reminded of every single excuse why David has not played up to expectations...geezzzzzz

Navy_Chris
01-28-2007, 09:38 PM
...can there actually be one day we have a thread that doesn't have a post that list all the excuses for Carr's sub-performance on the field? I mean, we seldom here about V&B, but--without fail-- a day does not go by that some :homer: thinks we need to be reminded of every single excuse why David has not played up to expectations...geezzzzzz

I agree 100%. I'm tired of people sticking up for this guy. I'm tired of watching him trot off the field after YET ANOTHER 3 and out like it's no big deal. I knew that it was only a matter of time before he ran out of receivers to check down to

edo783
01-28-2007, 10:00 PM
Out of the last 10 post 8 are anti-Carr, 12 0f the previouse 18 are yet supposedly it is a bunch of pro-Carr? Sorry, just don't see the overwhelming support for Carr.

TEXANRED
01-28-2007, 10:35 PM
Out of the last 10 post 8 are anti-Carr, 12 0f the previouse 18 are yet supposedly it is a bunch of pro-Carr? Sorry, just don't see the overwhelming support for Carr.

I still like Carr.

He had a crap season and was disappointing in the games that mattered ( Titans, Cowboys, Titans)

You just can't defend the type of season he had. (-5 passing yards for an entire game? Are you kidding me?)

There were many things this season that hurt our offense injury wise, but I feel the way Carr handled himself with the adversity was disastrous. I felt he was looking more to the coach's to show him the way instead of him leading the team and playing inspired football.

I want him to do well, I still believe he can do well and be productive. I think Carr is more like a Rothlisberger. He needs talent around him to be good.

Now whether he can do that in a Texan uni..................................

Texas
01-28-2007, 10:55 PM
GreenBay took favre from atlanta when he sucked and turned him into a hall of famer.maybe they can do it with carr!

uhcougar08
01-28-2007, 11:01 PM
GreenBay took favre from atlanta when he sucked and turned him into a hall of famer.maybe they can do it with carr!

I was watching the greatest Super Bowl teams on NFL Network, and it was amazing how much Brett Favre sucked for two straight years, but Holmgren stayed with him in the same offensive scheme. The third year was when he took control and began to be what we now know of him as. Kubiak said it would take this team three years to get adjusted to the scheme at the beginning of this past season. I am sure wondering if he sticks to his guns on that and gives Carr another year to work on this scheme. I think he will, even if we do bring in competition for him.

SamuraiSword
01-28-2007, 11:05 PM
Jake, is that you? And oh yeah, nice try on the accounting lesson.

Hey at least Jake has taken every team he has been on to the playoffs! What has our current Qb has done except grovels to Mcnair to keep his job?

SamuraiSword
01-28-2007, 11:08 PM
Thank you for spelling it out AJ. This is what the few Californian folks who are on this board understand, but do not acknowledge because of the agenda they have although they have no financial investment in this thing we call the Texans.

Whoever said we don't pay for it is obviously not a Texans' fan, but is a Carr fan. Anyone who is a Texans' fan knows that we have been paying for it ever since we drafted that college football player in 2002 - on the field and in our pocketbooks.

I see the fine print of this post...


and I am tired of the free-loader as well.


I truly think now our number one pick was a mistake....

NATHANHALE
01-28-2007, 11:50 PM
Out of the last 10 post 8 are anti-Carr, 12 0f the previouse 18 are yet supposedly it is a bunch of pro-Carr? Sorry, just don't see the overwhelming support for Carr.

In my post, I said 'a post' in a thread that doesn't 'list' all the excuses why Carr has failed--not sure who you're talking to but I didn't mention who does or does not want Carr back.

Actually, I would love to hear what Carr will do next year that he has not done before (if he comes back), instead of all the excuses and 'dreams' of a 'perfect' playing environment for David....

Mr. White
01-29-2007, 07:50 AM
Brenda Warner, the wife of former St. Louis Rams quarterback Kurt Warner, is up to her old tricks again. Mrs. Warner said in an interview on St Louis radio station WMLL Monday that her husband would welcome a trade if he is not the Rams starting quarterback by the end of the season.

When asked if her husband would seek a trade at the end of the season Brenda Warner said, "Probably, just from the point that we (we?) want to play, he wants to play, plain and simple. So, if he's not going to play here, then he wants to play somewhere."

Does this remind anyone of anybody ?

Reminds me of this (http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/sports/football/nfl/philadelphia_eagles/16561115.htm)....

When McNabb needs to lead, someone else is always stepping up. When McNabb needs to speak, there's always someone else on a soap box speaking on his behalf. It's Reid one minute, Momma or Papa McNabb the next. Yet, others are left behind, finding themselves being ridiculed for the things being said about McNabb in the end.

SamuraiSword
01-29-2007, 08:37 AM
Reminds me of this (http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/sports/football/nfl/philadelphia_eagles/16561115.htm)....

Don't you dare say Carr is like Mcnabb. Mcnabb is way better than him. He throws deep and he makes accurate passes. Wow this is the craziest post I have ever heard.

Mcnabb>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carr


There is not enough > to seperate those two apart.

thunderkyss
01-29-2007, 08:39 AM
GreenBay took favre from atlanta when he sucked and turned him into a hall of famer.maybe they can do it with carr!

Maybe they can do that with Aaron Rogers..... they already have him.

Or Joey Harrington...... his stock dropped another notch after Miami..

Same with Aaron Brooks.....

Brian Griese wants a starting job, maybe Greenbay can make Griese an HOFer...

Then there's Jake & Garcia..... maybe Greenbay can work some of that magic with them.

Mr. White
01-29-2007, 08:45 AM
Don't you dare say Carr is like Mcnabb. Mcnabb is way better than him. He throws deep and he makes accurate passes. Wow this is the craziest post I have ever heard.

Mcnabb>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carr


There is not enough > to seperate those two apart.


If that's what you took from that post, then you didn't read it.

SamuraiSword
01-29-2007, 08:51 AM
If that's what you took from that post, then you didn't read it.

okay I read the whole article (took some forcing me too read it). I now understand the post now. I figured the way you were posted Mcnabb was like Carr. I hate reading articles they are too long sometimes. Yeah people say Carr has no leadership skills as well.:bubble:

BTW I am half asleep when I first read that article.

QB75
01-29-2007, 09:08 AM
And good riddance to bad rubbish when the end result is only Texans' fans on this board.

Texans fans? There seems to be a shortage of those on this board. Mostly just Carr haters lately.

Honoring Earl 34
01-29-2007, 09:12 AM
Texans fans? There seems to be a shortage of those on this board. Mostly just Carr haters lately.


Thats where you're wrong ... we want a good team . It's not about one player .. this player that dominates the boards just happens to be the most important player on a football team . A team that averages about five wins a season .

If Carr leaves tomorrow I'll post tomorrow will you ?

NFLforher
01-29-2007, 10:34 PM
David is that you? BTW yes fans do pay for your....i mean his salary. Where do you think the funds come from? We buy the tickets,vendors,food,drinks. If no money is comming in then Mcnair is losing revenue. I don't have buisness mechanics and I know this...:aikido:

You think you're paying Carr's salary? :um:

NFLforher
01-29-2007, 10:36 PM
Thats where you're wrong ... we want a good team . It's not about one player .. this player that dominates the boards just happens to be the most important player on a football team . A team that averages about five wins a season .

If Carr leaves tomorrow I'll post tomorrow will you ?


:gotexans1


I'll be here.

SamuraiSword
01-29-2007, 11:43 PM
Texans fans? There seems to be a shortage of those on this board. Mostly just Carr haters lately.

No the only fans that I see are the ones who say its everyone elses fault and not the QB fault. Real Texan fans care about the whole team not just one player. Every position has changed for davey except davey's position......

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 12:45 AM
You think you're paying Carr's salary? :um:

I've said this before but...

Carr's salary is chump change to someone like McNair and that's not even counting the revenue he's got coming in from the league.

There are a lot of people in this group who are probably paying a higher percentage of their income for season tickets and to go to the games than McNair is to cover the salaries of this team. Actually, anyone who's paying anything to watch the Texans are paying a higher percentages of their incomes to do that than McNair is to pay for the team and its salaries because he's making a profit on this deal.

And personally, I refuse to begrudge anyone the salary they're making. I don't care if their salary is out of proportion with their performance. In most businesses, you don't get paid what you're worth; you get paid what you negotiate. So if someone has negotiated a sweet deal, good for them. I don't hate the players for that.

It really saddens me that our front office was screwed up for so long and we have had all these really bad decisions made. Now we've got to live with the consequences of that and it's up to Smith to maximize what we've got cap-wise to bring in players that Kubiak can craft into a team. I think we're going to have a good team going forward. I think it's going to be a while before we're a powerhouse but hopefully it's sooner than later.

Kaiser Toro
01-30-2007, 06:54 AM
And personally, I refuse to begrudge anyone the salary they're making. I don't care if their salary is out of proportion with their performance. In most businesses, you don't get paid what you're worth; you get paid what you negotiate. So if someone has negotiated a sweet deal, good for them. I don't hate the players for that.

That is a sad business. It may be a good model for a business trying to go public or one that has shady business dealings, but not for long term growth.

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 08:44 AM
That is a sad business. It may be a good model for a business trying to go public or one that has shady business dealings, but not for long term growth.

How is it sad or bad for long term growth? All companies want to pay as little as possible to get the most talented people they can. All employees, in a capitalistic society, have to balance getting the most money with a position that gives them the best quality of life.

When you go into a job interview with your resume in hand, you're negotiating with the company that you're interviewing with. You are negotiating with them for a position and for the amount that they're going to pay you to do that work. If you're going to a new company, they've really got no idea if you're any good. They can give you tests and things but they don't really know. It's all about how you present yourself and how you negotiate.

I worked on a contract basis for years. The amount I got paid was all about how much I negotiated and since I'm basically a Dilbert type of person, I didn't negotiate much. I was underpaid for years because I just wanted the job. Then when I started looking around and was considering getting a new job, the company I was working for got worried and almost DOUBLED what they were paying me. I wasn't really negotiating, I was just being honest about wanting to leave.

If someone like a Greenwood gets a big contract, good for him.

Mr. White
01-30-2007, 09:42 AM
From John McClain's blog today.... (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2007/01/annamegan_prince_singletary_le.html)

Okay, let's see. Oh, David Carr. Everyone wants to know where he'll be playing next season. I'm sticking to my guns that I believe he'll be traded before the draft and that Jake Plummer will replace him, with Sage Rosenfels and a rookie as the backups. I've been wrong before, of course, and I'll be wrong again, but I believe Carr will have a new ZIP code next season.

Dime
01-30-2007, 10:31 AM
Texans fans? There seems to be a shortage of those on this board. Mostly just Carr haters lately.

rofl...

No.. there are a bunch of Texan Fans here. They want what is best for the team. Carr has shown he is not good for the team right now. Your just sore that we air this. Lose the blinders, man. Quit blaiming everything under the sun. Even David Carr MUST say that winning requires him to play a good game. If the QB is off, then the whole game is off. It is a playmaking position, and he has shown moments of greatness, but is way too inconsistant. He has improved this year, but we have been paying him for 5 years.

You know, if someone signs a contract, and agrees to paint a barn in 3 years, and it takes them 6 years to finally paint the barn, then there will be some penalties fee for not completing it as agreed upon.

So, that being said, I have no problem with him going to camp, rofl, even ours, if he pays some of the money back. He hasnt finished 1/2 the barn yet.

Dime
01-30-2007, 10:34 AM
You think you're paying Carr's salary? :um:

ROFL.. We all are.. that is what he was saying.. Where do you think his millions came from? Magic? Bob? Reggie Bush commercials?

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 11:39 AM
How is it sad or bad for long term growth? All companies want to pay as little as possible to get the most talented people they can. All employees, in a capitalistic society, have to balance getting the most money with a position that gives them the best quality of life.

If someone like a Greenwood gets a big contract, good for him.

I believe the bad business practice in Question... was paying someone a bonus of $8 million even though that person had not met any of the goals, or expectations hoped for when the original contract was negotiated.

When Greenwood's contract is up, it would be bad for the Texans if his contract is equal to or greater than what he is being given now.

ib4texans
01-30-2007, 12:27 PM
I just want to remind everyone here that this board was filled with posts that stated that their highest expectation for this season was to go 6-10. Then I saw posts that said that Vince Young had done something that David Carr has never done, win against the Colts.

Make up your minds people, if your going to be unhappy regardless of the outcome just say it. I was happy with the way the TEAMS season went. Was I ecstatic? No! Could we improve more? Yes!

Come on people, get off of the negativity. Enjoy the outcome and let's look for a 10-6 or 11-5 next year.

Mr. White
01-30-2007, 12:48 PM
Then I saw posts that said that Vince Young had done something that David Carr has never done, win against the Colts.

That and hitting his receivers in stride, checking off to his other receivers, completing long passes, and getting around sacks that Carr usually takes......:blah: I could go on, but it's nothing new.:wheel:

Aztequila
01-30-2007, 12:50 PM
Good post. I'm with you on that. Let's just build on what we achieved last season instead of trying to break it down.

Meloy
01-30-2007, 12:56 PM
rofl...

No.. there are a bunch of Texan Fans here. They want what is best for the team. Carr has shown he is not good for the team right now. Your just sore that we air this. Lose the blinders, man. Quit blaiming everything under the sun. Even David Carr MUST say that winning requires him to play a good game. If the QB is off, then the whole game is off. It is a playmaking position, and he has shown moments of greatness, but is way too inconsistant. He has improved this year, but we have been paying him for 5 years.

You know, if someone signs a contract, and agrees to paint a barn in 3 years, and it takes them 6 years to finally paint the barn, then there will be some penalties fee for not completing it as agreed upon.

So, that being said, I have no problem with him going to camp, rofl, even ours, if he pays some of the money back. He hasnt finished 1/2 the barn yet.Using your barn example; 4 different guys told the painter how to paint the barn, how to position his feet just so on the ladder. Also told him how to position his arm when applying the paint. The man assigned to carry the paint bucket to the barn (DD Williams) got hurt. The man (Spencer) assigned to keep the painter from being run over by the mean old bull (defensive end) had his leg broken by someone else. The man (Casserly)who was mixing the paint was asked to leave 'cause he wasn't so good at getting the right mix. Just thought I would round out your example, since you failed to mention any of this.

Dime
01-30-2007, 01:15 PM
Using your barn example; 4 different guys told the painter how to paint the barn, how to position his feet just so on the ladder. Also told him how to position his arm when applying the paint. The man assigned to carry the paint bucket to the barn (DD Williams) got hurt. The man (Spencer) assigned to keep the painter from being run over by the mean old bull (defensive end) had his leg broken by someone else. The man (Casserly)who was mixing the paint was asked to leave 'cause he wasn't so good at getting the right mix. Just thought I would round out your example, since you failed to mention any of this.

And using your info as well, when you contract to do something, no matter what the problem is, you have to deliver. If you know anything about contractors at all, the job still has to get done. The guy carring the paint was replaced by 3 guys carrying the paint. Muted that point. The guy who who got a broken leg was replaced by another guy who did the job. Muted that point. And the guy who was mixing the paint was replaced by a better Mixer this year. So since all the positions were replaced by people slightly less the equal to, to better then equal to, then explain to me why the barn still aint done. People want to blame the contract on other people. In real life, blame get you nowhere.. you fulfull the contract or you suffer penalities for it. Excuses get you nowhere in life. But, from what you tell me, apparently it gets you somewhere when you have already had 5 years as QB on the Texans.

old football fan
01-30-2007, 01:32 PM
Since this is about the poor play of Carr let me put this quesition out there for everyone to fairly answer. Of all the players on the Texans who would be starting for another NFL team. I can think of only two, A. Johnson and D. Ryans. Also Carr did not sign a contract to make this a winning team, he only signed to play football(badly I might add). McNair, Casserly and Capers where the ones to provide the winning team and two of those are gone and the other we can't do much about. Food for thought

TexansSeminole
01-30-2007, 01:46 PM
Wait...are you guys still arguing IF Carr played well or not???????

real
01-30-2007, 01:50 PM
Using your barn example; 4 different guys told the painter how to paint the barn, how to position his feet just so on the ladder. Also told him how to position his arm when applying the paint. The man assigned to carry the paint bucket to the barn (DD Williams) got hurt. The man (Spencer) assigned to keep the painter from being run over by the mean old bull (defensive end) had his leg broken by someone else. The man (Casserly)who was mixing the paint was asked to leave 'cause he wasn't so good at getting the right mix. Just thought I would round out your example, since you failed to mention any of this.

When you're hired to do a job, it is your duty to make sure that the job gets done. If I hire you to paint my barn, I don't care what circumstances come about. If I hire someone to do a job period, I am going to assume that you have the skills neccessary to complete the job or we are going to have problems.

Dime
01-30-2007, 01:51 PM
Since this is about the poor play of Carr let me put this quesition out there for everyone to fairly answer. Of all the players on the Texans who would be starting for another NFL team. I can think of only two, A. Johnson and D. Ryans. Also Carr did not sign a contract to make this a winning team, he only signed to play football(badly I might add). McNair, Casserly and Capers where the ones to provide the winning team and two of those are gone and the other we can't do much about. Food for thought

I agree to a extent.. but let me tell you of my sight. To me, QB is the most important role on the field. Even more important then the coach. Why? A coach can send in plays, but if they are not excuted correctly by the QB, then they dont do any good. The QB to me HAS to be a playmaker. The rest of the team can exist, but QB truely makes/breaks the game. He is the one people look to when all hope is lost.

Carr at this time, and for this team just isnt there. He just doesnt have the leadership to make up for the play or vice versa. Hey.. I like Carr.. I think he can be very good. I just dont think he has a decent chance anymore here. I would LOVE him pulling a Gaffney and get into the superbowl. I just dont think it can happen here, and that is what we are ultimely looking for.

Last comment,

Carr has started here the last 5 years, right?

Please name me anyone in the NFL with a record as bad or worse at QB who is currently looking to start thier 6th year on the same team? Even use examples in the past.

QB75
01-30-2007, 02:32 PM
And using your info as well, when you contract to do something, no matter what the problem is, you have to deliver. If you know anything about contractors at all, the job still has to get done. The guy carring the paint was replaced by 3 guys carrying the paint. Muted that point. The guy who who got a broken leg was replaced by another guy who did the job. Muted that point. And the guy who was mixing the paint was replaced by a better Mixer this year. So since all the positions were replaced by people slightly less the equal to, to better then equal to, then explain to me why the barn still aint done. People want to blame the contract on other people. In real life, blame get you nowhere.. you fulfull the contract or you suffer penalities for it. Excuses get you nowhere in life. But, from what you tell me, apparently it gets you somewhere when you have already had 5 years as QB on the Texans.

Now how can the case for trading David Carr be stated any more eloquently than this?

Dime
01-30-2007, 03:01 PM
Now how can the case for trading David Carr be stated any more eloquently than this?

Here, let me try..

Carr aint working out and needs to be traded. :marionaner:

I did it.... I did it... :stirpot:

El Tejano
01-30-2007, 03:03 PM
What would it have taken this past season to get people to want Carr here still?

Playoffs? You really believe the rest of the team is worthy of the playoffs?

old football fan
01-30-2007, 03:11 PM
I agree to a extent.. but let me tell you of my sight. To me, QB is the most important role on the field. Even more important then the coach. Why? A coach can send in plays, but if they are not excuted correctly by the QB, then they dont do any good. The QB to me HAS to be a playmaker. The rest of the team can exist, but QB truely makes/breaks the game. He is the one people look to when all hope is lost.

Carr at this time, and for this team just isnt there. He just doesnt have the leadership to make up for the play or vice versa. Hey.. I like Carr.. I think he can be very good. I just dont think he has a decent chance anymore here. I would LOVE him pulling a Gaffney and get into the superbowl. I just dont think it can happen here, and that is what we are ultimely looking for.

Last comment,

Carr has started here the last 5 years, right?

Please name me anyone in the NFL with a record as bad or worse at QB who is currently looking to start thier 6th year on the same team? Even use examples in the past.

Well the QB can do his job all day long and be perfect at his job, but if one of the other players screw up than this affects the job performance of everybody else. This does not give Carr a pass on his performance, it just seems as if everybody forgets that this is a TEAM sport and everybody must do their job inorder to WIN. And this includes players, FO and coaches and owners.

Dime
01-30-2007, 03:16 PM
What would it have taken this past season to get people to want Carr here still?

Playoffs? You really believe the rest of the team is worthy of the playoffs?

Actually, no. If his play at the beginning of the season would have stayed more consistant would have satified me.

old football fan
01-30-2007, 03:22 PM
What would it have taken this past season to get people to want Carr here still?

Playoffs? You really believe the rest of the team is worthy of the playoffs?

Is that you Jim Mora??? Playoffs! Playoffs! What do mean Playoffs!

TwinSisters
01-30-2007, 03:54 PM
When you're hired to do a job, it is your duty to make sure that the job gets done. If I hire you to paint my barn, I don't care what circumstances come about. If I hire someone to do a job period, I am going to assume that you have the skills neccessary to complete the job or we are going to have problems.

So what are you saying then? We have to fire the whole team again? It takes like 200+ people to win a football game ( counting scouts, docters, film crew, FO ).

That means we hired 200 people to paint a barn.

P.S.
BY the way, whoever introduced the painting the barn analogy. I salute you!
When in Maine, everything is about the overalls and how much butter is too much butter on the lobster tail. When in Texas, it's all about the barn.

real
01-30-2007, 04:02 PM
What would it have taken this past season to get people to want Carr here still?

Playoffs? You really believe the rest of the team is worthy of the playoffs?

Man Law: The success or failure of a group or team shall not be tied to one individual; unless that group or team is a football team and that one individual is a QB.



I thought you knew. :shades:

ib4texans
01-30-2007, 04:15 PM
This just in!


The NFL player's union is now officially on strike. It seems that there is a ruling that if you signed an NFL contract and didn't live up to expectations you have to return said contracted money.

This strike is subject to last until the players can factor in this repayment clause into their signing bonus that will be non refundable, thus excluding anymore imaginary paybacks for unpainted barns.

Meloy
01-30-2007, 04:17 PM
When you're hired to do a job, it is your duty to make sure that the job gets done. If I hire you to paint my barn, I don't care what circumstances come about. If I hire someone to do a job period, I am going to assume that you have the skills neccessary to complete the job or we are going to have problems.My point seemed to blow right past you. Sorry. You can hire a guy that has the appropriate skills to complete the task. In your world, you blame the guy if things beyond his control go wrong. In my world, I can be upset by the results but still make honest allowances for how the result came about. I have no problems with Carr being held responsible for his play; BUT the same rules have to apply for the team. In your example you hired one man to do one job to "get the barn painted". Carr was not hired to win games but to be part of a team effort to win games.

Dime
01-30-2007, 04:46 PM
You all are missing my point.. also.

so, answer my question with other then Carr and I will cease my comments about it.

Carr has started here the last 5 years, right?

Please name me anyone in the NFL with a record as bad or worse at QB who is currently looking to start thier 6th year on the same team? Even use examples in the past.

GP
01-30-2007, 05:01 PM
Ah, the degenration of a thread.

It's like watching a fish out of water, gasping and flopping for awhile...then it becomes still and its gills flex in and out a few times...and then, it dies.

I have come here for the past 3-5 days, and I check this thread for anything of value. Anyone else thinking that this thread needs to end?

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 05:37 PM
Well the QB can do his job all day long and be perfect at his job, but if one of the other players screw up than this affects the job performance of everybody else. This does not give Carr a pass on his performance, it just seems as if everybody forgets that this is a TEAM sport and everybody must do their job inorder to WIN. And this includes players, FO and coaches and owners.

It's a team sport and one bad player can ruin the whole team. One person not performing his job can make a good team into a bad one.

The whole team can be doing their job all day long and the QB making bad decisions can make them all look dumb.

It's my belief that we got enough production from the rest of the players to be at least an 8-8 team and that Carr's poor performance cost us at least 2 games.

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 05:41 PM
I just want to remind everyone here that this board was filled with posts that stated that their highest expectation for this season was to go 6-10. Then I saw posts that said that Vince Young had done something that David Carr has never done, win against the Colts.

Make up your minds people, if your going to be unhappy regardless of the outcome just say it. I was happy with the way the TEAMS season went. Was I ecstatic? No! Could we improve more? Yes!

Come on people, get off of the negativity. Enjoy the outcome and let's look for a 10-6 or 11-5 next year.

I thought we had a shot at going 13-3.....

if we got the Dallas, NYG, Titans (x2), Buffalo, & NYJets...... we'd have been 12-4........ We could have(should have in my mind) won those games... & the Philly game (week 1). David or no David, we should have won those games.

ib4texans
01-30-2007, 05:43 PM
It's a team sport and one bad player can ruin the whole team. One person not performing his job can make a good team into a bad one.

The whole team can be doing their job all day long and the QB making bad decisions can make them all look dumb.

It's my belief that we got enough production from the rest of the players to be at least an 8-8 team and that Carr's poor performance cost us at least 2 games.

So did Jameel Cooke without a doubt, so that would give us the 2 wins you were looking for and Carr would be 8-8.

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 05:47 PM
What would it have taken this past season to get people to want Carr here still?

Playoffs? You really believe the rest of the team is worthy of the playoffs?

Last preseason, I stated clearly what Carr needed to do for me to continue to support him. He didn't do it. He needed to average about 210 yards per game, average a little over 1 TD per game, get less than 10 picks overall, and complete over 62% of his passes. This is not asking for big numbers. This is just asking for a season similar to his best season with more TD's. I also wanted him to look comfortable in the pocket.

He failed to hit any of those numbers except for completion percentage. At the beginning of the season, he was on his way to hit those numbers but he totally fell apart. The end of the season was some of the worst QB play I've ever seen. And that poor QB play has nothing to do with the line or the running game or the receivers, it's just poor performance by the QB.

I think that he's emotionally damaged and I personally think that he's physically injured as well. I don't think he has the arm strength since he hurt his shoulder a couple of years ago. I don't think he can make all the throws anymore. And I don't think he trusts his arm to make the hard throws and so he doesn't really go deep anymore.

So, for me, it's not about him not leading this team to the playoffs, it's about him not performing.

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 05:47 PM
What would it have taken this past season to get people to want Carr here still?

Playoffs? You really believe the rest of the team is worthy of the playoffs?

I can think of 8 throws that David threw that could have changed the outcome of some of our games. Underthrown balls, or overthrown..... balls thrown inside leading the reciever towards coverage, instead of outside & away from coverage.... a checkdown instead of the open reciever a few yards further down..... a ball thrown late, after the receiver done found his spot in the zone, but the late ball gave the defender time to make it up, and even not seeing a wide open reciever in the endzone against INdy....

If he'd have made those throws, I'd be happy. David could stay.

SESupergenius
01-30-2007, 05:50 PM
You all are missing my point.. also.

so, answer my question with other then Carr and I will cease my comments about it.

Carr has started here the last 5 years, right?

Please name me anyone in the NFL with a record as bad or worse at QB who is currently looking to start thier 6th year on the same team? Even use examples in the past.
Realisticly who's going to look that up? Name me the QB that has done anything after the expansion QB left? Cleveland is on its 4th QB since Couch left...so much for blaming him for everything. Beuerlein didn't do squat when Collins left.

If you are saying that Carr was problem then you need to beg and plead for Casserly, Capers, Fangio and Palmer to return.

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 05:52 PM
I can think of 8 throws that David threw that could have changed the outcome of some of our games. Underthrown balls, or overthrown..... balls thrown inside leading the reciever towards coverage, instead of outside & away from coverage.... a checkdown instead of the open reciever a few yards further down..... a ball thrown late, after the receiver done found his spot in the zone, but the late ball gave the defender time to make it up, and even not seeing a wide open reciever in the endzone against INdy....

If he'd have made those throws, I'd be happy. David could stay.

Yeah, exactly. Think about the throw against the Titans when he threw into quadruple coverage. The bad 3rd down throw after the string of completed passes against the Bills that would have allowed us to keep the ball and kill the clock.

And in addition to the throws, there's the putting of the ball on the ground. If you're going to run around, you've got to get both hands on the ball. If you read a blitz and you know you've got someone coming free, you can't pump and then hold the ball in one hand. It's just crazy.

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 05:54 PM
[/B]

So did Jameel Cooke without a doubt, so that would give us the 2 wins you were looking for and Carr would be 8-8.

And you add in the 2 games that Carr lost for us, and we're 10-6.

QB75
01-30-2007, 05:59 PM
And you add in the 2 games that Carr lost for us, and we're 10-6.

Yeah sure. I guess the Texans were playoff contenders had they not started David Carr.

TwinSisters
01-30-2007, 06:03 PM
Realisticly who's going to look that up? Name me the QB that has done anything after the expansion QB left?

I did.

The closest ones are Testaverde, Jim Zorn, Archie Manning, and Norm Snead. But none of them come close to matching Carr in mediocrity.

---

Minnesota Vikings - Super Bowl with Joe Kapp after Tarkenton left.
New coach, new QB and then a Super Bowl

Seattle Seahawks - AFC Championship game after Zorn is benched, Dave Krieg put in. New Coach, New QB. ( although they did draft Curt Warner too )

EDIT: O yeah and Dan Fouts

( but that's not part of the question )

Wolf
01-30-2007, 06:06 PM
I did.

The closest ones are Testaverde, Jim Zorn, Archie Manning, and Norm Snead. But none of them come close to matching Carr in mediocrity.

---

Minnesota Vikings - Super Bowl with Joe Kapp after Tarkenton left.
New coach, new QB and then a Super Bowl

Seattle Seahawks - AFC Championship game after Zorn is benched, Dave Krieg put in. New Coach, New QB. ( although they did draft Curt Warner too )

( but that's not part of the question )

hmm adrian peterson at the Number 8 slot :heh:

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 06:15 PM
Yeah sure. I guess the Texans were playoff contenders had they not started David Carr.

Believe it or don't, but this team was good enough to play in the playoffs. If we don't blow the Bills game, if we don't blow the Titan's games, if we don't blow the Giants games, we're suddenly 10-6 and we go to the playoffs instead of the Chiefs. All of those games were winnable by us and we didn't get it done. And that was with sub-par play from the QB.

With a decent QB, not a great QB just a decent one, I think we win those games and some of the other games where we got blown out are suddenly a lot closer.

Ckw
01-30-2007, 06:25 PM
Last preseason, I stated clearly what Carr needed to do for me to continue to support him. He didn't do it. He needed to average about 210 yards per game, average a little over 1 TD per game, get less than 10 picks overall, and complete over 62% of his passes. This is not asking for big numbers. This is just asking for a season similar to his best season with more TD's. I also wanted him to look comfortable in the pocket.

He failed to hit any of those numbers except for completion percentage. At the beginning of the season, he was on his way to hit those numbers but he totally fell apart. The end of the season was some of the worst QB play I've ever seen. And that poor QB play has nothing to do with the line or the running game or the receivers, it's just poor performance by the QB.

I think that he's emotionally damaged and I personally think that he's physically injured as well. I don't think he has the arm strength since he hurt his shoulder a couple of years ago. I don't think he can make all the throws anymore. And I don't think he trusts his arm to make the hard throws and so he doesn't really go deep anymore.

So, for me, it's not about him not leading this team to the playoffs, it's about him not performing.

Great, great post. I even had my expectations lower than you. For me, all I wanted was consistent play, not big numbers. Look, I will say what I have said before. Honestly, I have supported Carr all along. I still support Carr. But his breakdown at the end of the season, when it counts the most, just showed a lack of poise on his part. He, in my opinion, either is not ready to start for an NFL team or he needs to go somewhere else and clear his head of all this madness. I mean, I wasn't looking for Carr to be like he was the first 6 games the entire season. I also wasn't expecting him to tank like he did in his last 6. All I wanted was something in the middle. It didn't happen...

QB75
01-30-2007, 06:29 PM
Believe it or don't, but this team was good enough to play in the playoffs. If we don't blow the Bills game, if we don't blow the Titan's games, if we don't blow the Giants games, we're suddenly 10-6 and we go to the playoffs instead of the Chiefs. All of those games were winnable by us and we didn't get it done. And that was with sub-par play from the QB.

With a decent QB, not a great QB just a decent one, I think we win those games and some of the other games where we got blown out are suddenly a lot closer.

Unbelieveable the blame that fans put on Carr. Now it's his fault that the Texans missed the playoffs? I thought it was Vince Young's unstoppable heroics that won the Titans game as opposed to Carr's errors. Guess not.

Dime
01-30-2007, 06:42 PM
Realisticly who's going to look that up? Name me the QB that has done anything after the expansion QB left? Cleveland is on its 4th QB since Couch left...so much for blaming him for everything. Beuerlein didn't do squat when Collins left.

If you are saying that Carr was problem then you need to beg and plead for Casserly, Capers, Fangio and Palmer to return.

My point is you can look it up all you want, but good luck finding anyone. If that happen anywhere else based on his numbers, etc, he wouldnt be a issue because he would have been replaced long ago. Also If you have read most of my posts on Carr, you will find i mention that he was mostly ruined by some of the four you mention.

QB75
01-30-2007, 06:55 PM
My point is you can look it up all you want, but good luck finding anyone. If that happen anywhere else based on his numbers, etc, he wouldnt be a issue because he would have been replaced long ago. Also If you have read most of my posts on Carr, you will find i mention that he was mostly ruined by some of the four you mention.

It is highly debatable as to whether David Carr is "ruined". He was undoubtedly poorly supported, as he was a rookie QB with an expansion team, led by a defensive Head Coach, no QB coach, no veteran QB backup and a bad offensive line. Not a great way to start. But after one year under a good QB coach the team improved. That, plus the fact that there are few alternatives available, is why he is staying one more year.

HoustonFrog
01-30-2007, 07:00 PM
It is highly debatable as to whether David Carr is "ruined". He was undoubtedly poorly supported, as he was a rookie QB with an expansion team, led by a defensive Head Coach, no QB coach, no veteran QB backup and a bad offensive line. Not a great way to start. But after one year under a good QB coach the team improved. That, plus the fact that there are few alternatives available, is why he is staying one more year.

Excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse. Many QBs get drafted high. Usually they go to bad teams, thus them picking so high. The team improved this year despite his play and as the year went on they had to hold his hand and take the ball out of his hands. I wouldn't call that a ringing endorsement of someone who still hasn't mastered the basics that most QBs are supposed to know. there are other alternatives and if people don't think getting rid of one "question amrk" or "one dark cloud" won't make a difference, then you are sadly mistaken. Another year of people clamoring for a new QB with each game taking on a life of their own is not the way to go.

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 07:03 PM
[/B]

So did Jameel Cooke without a doubt, so that would give us the 2 wins you were looking for and Carr would be 8-8.

& Jameel has been replaced..... he won't be our starting fullback in '07....

Wali Lundy Fumbled the ball once.... only once ,and he wasn't just benched, he was inactive for 6 games.... I think... maybe only three games, but it was a lot more than being benched for one half, then having the coach publicly apologize for his action during the game.

Arky
01-30-2007, 07:08 PM
Yeah, exactly. Think about the throw against the Titans when he threw into quadruple coverage.
....

It was more like triple-coverage with a 4th on the way...

I never thought that throw was as dastardly as everyone makes it out to be. You've got a 7-foot beast of a wide receiver that should be able to outjump and out-muscle a couple or three defensive backs. It worked in Jax #1 game and then everybody got wise to it.... Bret Favre seems to do the same thing 2 or 3 times/game....

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 07:10 PM
You all are missing my point.. also.

so, answer my question with other then Carr and I will cease my comments about it.

Carr has started here the last 5 years, right?

Please name me anyone in the NFL with a record as bad or worse at QB who is currently looking to start thier 6th year on the same team? Even use examples in the past.

I asked the same question in April '06.... it hasn't been done. No one, other than the starting QB for the Houston Texans, has started for the same team for 4 years without demonstrating the ability to lead an NFL team on the field.

Who cares if your OL isn't giving you time, or if your recievers are dropping balls. They didn't care in Dallas, they didn't care in Oakland, they didn't care in Arizona, Denver, or Miami. Produce, or sit on the freak'n bench.

Same goes for the recievers who are no longer on this team. Same goes for the OL who are no longer Texans.... they didn't produce, they are gone. You don't hear anybody saying, Get Todd Wade, or Victor Riley a QB who knows how to look off a safety, or knows how to work a three step drop....... no one says, "Let's give Victor Riley a QB who knows how to call an audible before we cut him"......

No one says, "Let's give Jabar a QB who can read through a progression, before we just let our 2nd pick ever walk"

Sportsfan
01-30-2007, 07:11 PM
When will we know if the Texans are trading or cutting Carr? Is there some sort of date when trades/cuts start or could it happen any moment now?

QB75
01-30-2007, 07:14 PM
Excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse. Many QBs get drafted high. Usually they go to bad teams, thus them picking so high. The team improved this year despite his play and as the year went on they had to hold his hand and take the ball out of his hands. I wouldn't call that a ringing endorsement of someone who still hasn't mastered the basics that most QBs are supposed to know. there are other alternatives and if people don't think getting rid of one "question amrk" or "one dark cloud" won't make a difference, then you are sadly mistaken. Another year of people clamoring for a new QB with each game taking on a life of their own is not the way to go.

Not excuses. Facts.

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 07:17 PM
Realisticly who's going to look that up? Name me the QB that has done anything after the expansion QB left? Cleveland is on its 4th QB since Couch left...so much for blaming him for everything. Beuerlein didn't do squat when Collins left.

If you are saying that Carr was problem then you need to beg and plead for Casserly, Capers, Fangio and Palmer to return.

Didn't Byron Leftwhich take the Jags to the playoffs??

Didn't Delhomme take the Panthers to the SuperBowl??

The Pencil Neck
01-30-2007, 07:18 PM
Unbelieveable the blame that fans put on Carr. Now it's his fault that the Texans missed the playoffs? I thought it was Vince Young's unstoppable heroics that won the Titans game as opposed to Carr's errors. Guess not.

So you're saying that you think Carr played good last year? You think a really poorly timed interception to kill a drive and 2 fumbles (one of which went for a TD, iirc) is a good game? You think multiple FULL games of less than 50 yards net passing yards is a satisfactory performance?

What's amazing is that we won 6 games considering how poorly Carr played. Almost any other QB on almost any other team would have been benched with the sort of games he had. I don't understand how anyone can look at his performance and consider him a mediocre QB, let alone a good QB. Tell me why you think he's got what it takes to win in this league?

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 07:19 PM
When will we know if the Texans are trading or cutting Carr? Is there some sort of date when trades/cuts start or could it happen any moment now?

There's no way the Texans cut David.......... McNair loves the kid, and won't let him go.

Kubiak & Smith can huff & puff all they want, but as long as McNair signs the checks, David will be a QB for the Houston Texans.

The best that will happen, is that David will be a back-up, and we'll have a new starter.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 07:50 PM
All I can say is


:deadhorse

We have killed more horses on this subject than Alpo does in a decade.

HoustonFrog
01-30-2007, 07:54 PM
Not excuses. Facts.

What facts?You have never thrown out facts regarding Carr. The only fact is that by the end of the year they used the running game, had him throw a few times a game and took the ball out of his hands. Probably has nothing to do with the rocks for brains and the fact that in 5 years he still can't learn basic QBing skills. The fact is that not one QB out there has the perfect situation and many can do more with less. It is amazing that Banks and Sage didn't have same of the same problems..lol

NATHANHALE
01-30-2007, 08:09 PM
There's no way the Texans cut David.......... McNair loves the kid, and won't let him go.

Kubiak & Smith can huff & puff all they want, but as long as McNair signs the checks, David will be a QB for the Houston Texans.

The best that will happen, is that David will be a back-up, and we'll have a new starter.

Unfortunately TK, I think you're right. JMO, but Kubiak came as close to benching Carr in those last few games as he could by taking the ball out of Carr's hands. There is no question that-like '06-next year will not be the year it could be if Carr is still the starter. However, unlike he did last year (assumming Carr remains), I hope Kubiak sets an aggressive game plan in place and sticks with whether Carr can 'work' it or not. If Carr handles it, great--if he does not, well....

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 08:47 PM
The only reason why Carr wasn't benched at the end of last year, was because Kubiak didn't have another reliable QB to put in, because Sage broke his hand.

There is no doubt in my mind without the injury to Sage, Carr would of been benched.

QB75
01-30-2007, 09:25 PM
The only reason why Carr wasn't benched at the end of last year, was because Kubiak didn't have another reliable QB to put in, because Sage broke his hand.

There is no doubt in my mind without the injury to Sage, Carr would of been benched.

I doubt it, because they wanted to give Carr as much time on the field as possible. Anyway it turned out well because they won the last two.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 09:35 PM
I doubt it, because they wanted to give Carr as much time on the field as possible. Anyway it turned out well because they won the last two.

I don't doubt it, Kubiak took the ball out of his hands........period. Stop being a blind Carr apologist. look at my screen name, I took up for Carr more than anybody. Kubiak didn't trust Carr.......period. If we had a healthy Sage, Kubiak would of played him. Kubiak wasn't around when Carr was drafted, he has no loyalties.

Theres a old saying..........where there is smoke, there is fire......well theres so much smoke flowing around this team and outside sources that I might develop asthma. Kubiak wasn't exactly proclaiming Carr his QB after the season, the fact that you haven't heard him or R. Smith say anything speaks volumes. The fact that theres now reports flying around that we are looking for a replacement also speaks volumes. Kubiak and the team could of killed off the Plummer rumors a long time ago.............wonder why they haven't...hhmmmmm.

QB75
01-30-2007, 09:58 PM
I don't doubt it, Kubiak took the ball out of his hands........period. Stop being a blind Carr apologist. look at my screen name, I took up for Carr more than anybody. Kubiak didn't trust Carr.......period. If we had a healthy Sage, Kubiak would of played him. Kubiak wasn't around when Carr was drafted, he has no loyalties.

Theres a old saying..........where there is smoke, there is fire......well theres so much smoke flowing around this team and outside sources that I might develop asthma. Kubiak wasn't exactly proclaiming Carr his QB after the season, the fact that you haven't heard him or R. Smith say anything speaks volumes. The fact that theres now reports flying around that we are looking for a replacement also speaks volumes. Kubiak and the team could of killed off the Plummer rumors a long time ago.............wonder why they haven't...hhmmmmm.

Unbelievable. 1) Kubiak rarely comments on rumors, and he hasn't been in any public forums where he's been forced to do it since the season ended. 2) His "loyalty" was to further develop Carr for the franchise and McNair when he took the reins - and that doesn't mean in one season. While he didn't DRAFT Carr, he EXCERCISED THE OPTION after seeing him perform in the NFL for 4 years. That is what people are forgetting when they say Kubiak has no ownership in Carr, and that is why he is staying in 2007. 3) They are going to build in other areas at least one more year. They are not going for a short term solution at QB, and there isn't a long term solution currently presenting itself. It is not imperative that they make the playoffs in 2007 - only that they improve the personnel and try to win a few more games. 4) The fact that you haven't heard Kubiak, Smith or McNair say anying is simply reflective of the fact that they know fairweather fans are whining about David Carr. They have no incentive to fan the fire and state that he is staying right now. People are in the process of renewing tickets. Carr's remaining with the Texans in 2007 will become evident near the draft in April. It's actually fairly straightforward.

TEXANS84
01-30-2007, 10:02 PM
It is not imperative that they make the playoffs in 2007 - only that they improve the personnel and try to win a few more games.

Well then I need to find a new team. A team that sells it self short of the playoffs and is ok with winning a few more games is not going to ever go anywhere.

I want a team where the playoffs is always their goal.

QB75
01-30-2007, 10:05 PM
Well then I need to find a new team. A team that sells it self short of the playoffs and is ok with winning a few more games is not going to ever go anywhere.

I want a team where the playoffs is always their goal.

Of course. Just stay on the Chicago bandwagon for now and jump over the Colts if they happen to win. That way you'll always have be on a winning team. Lots of people do it.

TEXANS84
01-30-2007, 10:09 PM
Of course. Just stay on the Chicago bandwagon for now and jump over the Colts if they happen to win. That way you'll always have be on a winning team. Lots of people do it.

Lived in Chicago, but if you want to go that way...ok.

If you cheer for a team that "wants a couple more wins" per season, then that's ridiculous. Even you know that has to put a sour taste in your mouth.

Honoring Earl 34
01-30-2007, 10:11 PM
Well then I need to find a new team. A team that sells it self short of the playoffs and is ok with winning a few more games is not going to ever go anywhere.

I want a team where the playoffs is always their goal.

Welcome to lowered expectations where winning is secondary to being swell .

Is 6 years to much to give a QB ... no not at all ... I meen come on he's trying right .

At the end of the day ... I know I'll start out thinking here we go again if Carr is back .... so you can't tell me if I think that way ... half the Texans must be also thinking that .

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 10:28 PM
Unbelievable. 1) Kubiak rarely comments on rumors, and he hasn't been in any public forums where he's been forced to do it since the season ended. 2) His "loyalty" was to further develop Carr for the franchise and McNair when he took the reins - and that doesn't mean in one season. While he didn't DRAFT Carr, he EXCERCISED THE OPTION after seeing him perform in the NFL for 4 years. That is what people are forgetting when they say Kubiak has no ownership in Carr, and that is why he is staying in 2007. 3) They are going to build in other areas at least one more year. They are not going for a short term solution at QB, and there isn't a long term solution currently presenting itself. It is not imperative that they make the playoffs in 2007 - only that they improve the personnel and try to win a few more games. 4) The fact that you haven't heard Kubiak, Smith or McNair say anying is simply reflective of the fact that they know fairweather fans are whining about David Carr. They have no incentive to fan the fire and state that he is staying right now. People are in the process of renewing tickets. Carr's remaining with the Texans in 2007 will become evident near the draft in April. It's actually fairly straightforward.

Okay, I'll play

1) Kubiak rarely comments on rumors, and he hasn't been in any public forums where he's been forced to do it since the season ended.

Kubiak has always been a staight forward guy, who shoots straight from the hip......again the fact that he hasn't endorsed Carr as "his QB" or even given him praise speaks volumes.........you can wag the dog all you want, but again where theres smoke theres fire

2) His "loyalty" was to further develop Carr for the franchise and McNair when he took the reins - and that doesn't mean in one season. While he didn't DRAFT Carr, he EXCERCISED THE OPTION after seeing him perform in the NFL for 4 years. That is what people are forgetting when they say Kubiak has no ownership in Carr, and that is why he is staying in 2007.

No he was asked if he could work with Carr, because McNair wasn't ready to admit defeat, it all rests on McNair and Kubiak tried for a year, guess what it failed and Kubiak who has worked with great QBs knows it. There is a BIG difference looking at tape of a QB with no receiving threat outside of AJ, a injured RB, and no tightend. Then getting him a solid #2, a good stable of backs, the best receiving rookie TE in the draft, Oline depth, watching him play live and his composure live and in practice and seeing the same results, in a dumbed down QB friendly system. (which is what we ran this year) The only reason we won more games was because of the defense. Carr was a bystander, he's not getting paid to be a bystander..........sorry.

3) They are going to build in other areas at least one more year. They are not going for a short term solution at QB, and there isn't a long term solution currently presenting itself. It is not imperative that they make the playoffs in 2007 - only that they improve the personnel and try to win a few more games.

Like last year huh, I saw a great Elway interview today, he was talking about how being a QB and the skills he learned got him through the toughest times in his life. He said that even when he was in a bad situation he didn't dwell on it and was just thankful he had the OPPORTUNITY to succeed and took full advantage of every OPPORTUNITY (for your information, Elway leads alltime in sacks and didn't play with great players early on)..........well guess what, its been 5 years and Carr hasn't siezed nor stepped up to take advantage of his OPPORTUNITY to be able to have a chance to start in 5 seasons. If he had atleast shown flashes this might be different, but he rarely even looks down the middle, which is the sole reason he can't beat a cover 2.

Also you say they aren't going for a short term solution, well if they keep Carr they are, cause I can garantee you, if he is on this team next year he will be gone the next.......no way they bring back a 7 year starter that has failed to reach a .500 record.

and your right its not imperative they reach the playoffs, but this is Kubiak's first headcoaching gig and I'm sure he doesn't want it to be his last........reaching the playoffs is the goal. Also Kubiak isn't dumb, he knows a new QB would buy him atleast two extra years and maybe more depending on the development.

The long term solution would be drafting a rookie and developing him under Kubiak.

4) The fact that you haven't heard Kubiak, Smith or McNair say anying is simply reflective of the fact that they know fairweather fans are whining about David Carr. They have no incentive to fan the fire and state that he is staying right now. People are in the process of renewing tickets. Carr's remaining with the Texans in 2007 will become evident near the draft in April. It's actually fairly straightforward.

Now that is a ignorant comment, I can assure you there is no fairweather fans on this board, or ones that own season tickets, seeing how they cost thousands of dollars. In fact seeing the Texans seasonal records year in and out, one could make a case there isn't anymore "fairweather fans" around, just us die hards.

The fact that Kubiak and comp. haven't said much indicates they have alot of class, don't want to tip their hand, and ARE not embracing that Carr has a great future here. Its funny because every other year, including last offseason I heard how Carr was the starter and the "just got to get better around him" interviews, why ain't I hearing that now..........hmmm

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 10:29 PM
Welcome to lowered expectations where winning is secondary to being swell .

Is 6 years to much to give a QB ... no not at all ... I meen come on he's trying right .

At the end of the day ... I know I'll start out thinking here we go again if Carr is back .... so you can't tell me if I think that way ... half the Texans must be also thinking that .

If we draft Peterson....... go ahead & count on David being the starting QB, no matter what.

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 11:00 PM
If we draft Peterson....... go ahead & count on David being the starting QB, no matter what.

I will have to admit, I'll eat another year of Carr if we can get Peterson :shades:

As long as we have a decent QB backing up.

I want Peterson

TexanSam
01-30-2007, 11:05 PM
Damon Huard for QB!

NATHANHALE
01-30-2007, 11:06 PM
The only reason why Carr wasn't benched at the end of last year, was because Kubiak didn't have another reliable QB to put in, because Sage broke his hand.

There is no doubt in my mind without the injury to Sage, Carr would of been benched.

You're probably right, but I can't help but wonder if McNair didn't have a say in not benching Carr. I almost got sick with the way Gary publically apologized for benching him against the Titans.

CB, what do you know about this Bradlee guy?

Carr Bombed
01-30-2007, 11:11 PM
You're probably right, but I can't help but wonder if McNair didn't have a say in not benching Carr. I almost got sick with the way Gary publically apologized for benching him against the Titans.

CB, what do you know about this Bradlee guy?

Not....much.

I just hope McNair wasn't the case for the non benching.

McNair needs to butt out, I know he is the owner, but now there are reports Reeves told him to take Young and he didn't listen. Why the hell did he hire him as a consultant.

McNair now needs to trust the bright individuals he has hired. Rick Smith seems very smart and a great young GM, so does Kubiak. Its time for McNair to just sign the checks, trust in his men, and don't stand in the way of their decisions towards success.

Every great owner in this league is smart enough to step back and let people do their jobs.......period

thunderkyss
01-31-2007, 07:15 AM
McNair needs to butt out, I know he is the owner, but now there are reports Reeves told him to take Young and he didn't listen. Why the hell did he hire him as a consultant.

McNair now needs to trust the bright individuals he has hired.

Reeves Job was to tell McNair if he bought or was buying snake-oil.

It's like if you went to go help someone buy a car..... you don't have the final word, but you're(DanReeves) there to tell that someone(McNair) if the salesmen(Casserly) is feeding you a line of B.S.

The question was can you win a SuperBowl with David Carr....... Dan must have said yes.

The question was what do you think about the direction this staff is going with this draft....... The answer must have been, "they're all good football players, I don't see any huge reaches, It makes sense to me."

The question might have been, what do you think about that Young kid?? The Answer might have been, "Well I traded away my world for that Vick kid that got me fired, so what the hell do I know?? But I wouldn't pass on Vince"

old football fan
01-31-2007, 08:03 AM
Before I start I'm not defending Carr just want to throw a fact out there. Everybody states that Kubiak took the ball out off Carrs hand at the end of the season. Everybody wants or thinks Plummer would be a good fit here. So if that is true why then did Plummer's pass attempts for the past three years with Kubiak go down every year?? Did Kubiak take the ball out of Plummers hand???? The confused and dumb(mainly me) would like to know.

HoustonFrog
01-31-2007, 08:44 AM
Before I start I'm not defending Carr just want to throw a fact out there. Everybody states that Kubiak took the ball out off Carrs hand at the end of the season. Everybody wants or thinks Plummer would be a good fit here. So if that is true why then did Plummer's pass attempts for the past three years with Kubiak go down every year?? Did Kubiak take the ball out of Plummers hand???? The confused and dumb(mainly me) would like to know.

I only see his first year there as a down year for attempts. His second year was high as was his third...at least average for his career. I've never seen Kubiak say that he didn't depend on Jake either. Denver was a running team. The things I saw this year were different. As I've said before, when you are a losing team and you have a chance to win a game why run a draw on 3rd and 8 and take the FG?

old football fan
01-31-2007, 09:34 AM
[LIST=1]
2003 - 302 2004 - 521 2005 - 456 2006 - 317(in 11 games) Sorry I had wrtten than down wrong and went back to check them.:confused: :embarrass That what happens when you get old.

real
01-31-2007, 09:39 AM
My point seemed to blow right past you. Sorry.

No...

Your point was made loud and clear. :shades:

Sportsfan
01-31-2007, 11:25 AM
There's no way the Texans cut David.......... McNair loves the kid, and won't let him go.

Kubiak & Smith can huff & puff all they want, but as long as McNair signs the checks, David will be a QB for the Houston Texans.

The best that will happen, is that David will be a back-up, and we'll have a new starter.

That didn't answer my question.

I'll ask again.
When will we know IF the Texans are trading or cutting Carr? Is there some sort of date when trades/cuts start or could it happen any moment now?

Lucky
01-31-2007, 11:35 AM
Is there some sort of date when trades/cuts start or could it happen any moment now?
The NFL trading period begins on March 2nd. As does the free agency period. The waiver period begins on February 12th, but I'm not sure how that would apply to Carr, since he is a vested player.

SESupergenius
01-31-2007, 11:37 AM
I did.

The closest ones are Testaverde, Jim Zorn, Archie Manning, and Norm Snead. But none of them come close to matching Carr in mediocrity.

---

Minnesota Vikings - Super Bowl with Joe Kapp after Tarkenton left.
New coach, new QB and then a Super Bowl

Seattle Seahawks - AFC Championship game after Zorn is benched, Dave Krieg put in. New Coach, New QB. ( although they did draft Curt Warner too )

EDIT: O yeah and Dan Fouts

( but that's not part of the question )
I guess that answers that question, Tarkenton & Zorn were with their expansion teams for 6 years minimum.

Tarkenton also went to Superbowls after Kapp wasn't there so that really doesnt say much for Kapp. Kraig wallowed in mediocrity after that Championship game as well.

SESupergenius
01-31-2007, 11:42 AM
Didn't Byron Leftwhich take the Jags to the playoffs??

Didn't Delhomme take the Panthers to the SuperBowl??
Leftwhich did that after 11 years of teams existance and in his 3rd season at that. Texans are running thin on molding a QB.

Delhomme did that after interviewing 5 other QB's over 9 years in their teams exisitance.

Do Texans fans have this much patience right now?

No way, no how. We better bring in an instant star or else....

QB75
01-31-2007, 11:51 AM
Okay, I'll play



Kubiak has always been a staight forward guy, who shoots straight from the hip......again the fact that he hasn't endorsed Carr as "his QB" or even given him praise speaks volumes.........you can wag the dog all you want, but again where theres smoke theres fire



No he was asked if he could work with Carr, because McNair wasn't ready to admit defeat, it all rests on McNair and Kubiak tried for a year, guess what it failed and Kubiak who has worked with great QBs knows it. There is a BIG difference looking at tape of a QB with no receiving threat outside of AJ, a injured RB, and no tightend. Then getting him a solid #2, a good stable of backs, the best receiving rookie TE in the draft, Oline depth, watching him play live and his composure live and in practice and seeing the same results, in a dumbed down QB friendly system. (which is what we ran this year) The only reason we won more games was because of the defense. Carr was a bystander, he's not getting paid to be a bystander..........sorry.



Like last year huh, I saw a great Elway interview today, he was talking about how being a QB and the skills he learned got him through the toughest times in his life. He said that even when he was in a bad situation he didn't dwell on it and was just thankful he had the OPPORTUNITY to succeed and took full advantage of every OPPORTUNITY (for your information, Elway leads alltime in sacks and didn't play with great players early on)..........well guess what, its been 5 years and Carr hasn't siezed nor stepped up to take advantage of his OPPORTUNITY to be able to have a chance to start in 5 seasons. If he had atleast shown flashes this might be different, but he rarely even looks down the middle, which is the sole reason he can't beat a cover 2.

Also you say they aren't going for a short term solution, well if they keep Carr they are, cause I can garantee you, if he is on this team next year he will be gone the next.......no way they bring back a 7 year starter that has failed to reach a .500 record.

and your right its not imperative they reach the playoffs, but this is Kubiak's first headcoaching gig and I'm sure he doesn't want it to be his last........reaching the playoffs is the goal. Also Kubiak isn't dumb, he knows a new QB would buy him atleast two extra years and maybe more depending on the development.

The long term solution would be drafting a rookie and developing him under Kubiak.



Now that is a ignorant comment, I can assure you there is no fairweather fans on this board, or ones that own season tickets, seeing how they cost thousands of dollars. In fact seeing the Texans seasonal records year in and out, one could make a case there isn't anymore "fairweather fans" around, just us die hards.

The fact that Kubiak and comp. haven't said much indicates they have alot of class, don't want to tip their hand, and ARE not embracing that Carr has a great future here. Its funny because every other year, including last offseason I heard how Carr was the starter and the "just got to get better around him" interviews, why ain't I hearing that now..........hmmm

You make a good case, and I think I make good case. The great thing is that time will tell. I believe that the Texans are thinking in terms of getting the best athletes they can for the longer term. The fact that they picked up Carr's option AND that there is not a visible QB saviour in the wings means that they will invest where they think they can get a long term return. I don't think they want a new QB without the rest of the team largely filled out. But again, we will all know by about April. I believe that he and Sage are going to camp, perhaps with Kevin Kolb if he falls to a Texans pick.

SESupergenius
01-31-2007, 12:43 PM
My point is you can look it up all you want, but good luck finding anyone. If that happen anywhere else based on his numbers, etc, he wouldnt be a issue because he would have been replaced long ago. Also If you have read most of my posts on Carr, you will find i mention that he was mostly ruined by some of the four you mention.

I agree with him being ruined, however, We had better bring in some that is a HELL of a lot better. If we are doing this just to make a change and there are so many other areas that we can actually beef up and contend on them alone, then no. We are Sage and Van Pelt to cover our losses if Carr does bad, no need to bring in a high priced FA QB.

MightyTExan
01-31-2007, 02:54 PM
What about Quinton Porter? Is he any good? Does Kubiak think he's the QB of the future? Any Qb that's drafted by Kubiak deserves a look I think.

tsip
01-31-2007, 05:28 PM
What about Quinton Porter? Is he any good? Does Kubiak think he's the QB of the future? Any Qb that's drafted by Kubiak deserves a look I think.

Exactly. We had 2 other QBs on the roster but played neither--Carr had 2tds and 6 ints and avg 110 ypg over the last 5 games, so I'm not sure how much worse they could have done. Too, it would not have taken much to beat those results and-who knows-maybe we get a 'suprise'...and a question or 2 answered.

thunderkyss
01-31-2007, 05:43 PM
No way, no how. We better bring in an instant star or else....

Or else what?? Start David Carr?? That's just stupid.

He doesn't understand the game. You have to tell him when to throw the ball.... there have been 4 offensive Coordinators that have denied David Carr the QBs right to call audibles....

Our back up is allowed to call audibles...... lets start him.

TwinSisters
01-31-2007, 10:26 PM
I guess that answers that question, Tarkenton & Zorn were with their expansion teams for 6 years minimum.

Tarkenton also went to Superbowls after Kapp wasn't there so that really doesnt say much for Kapp. Kraig wallowed in mediocrity after that Championship game as well.

The scarey thing about Krieg is that he has a LOT of fans... those crazy eyed pitchfork wielding types
just an example:
http://pages.prodigy.net/romitaman/
( old school too... freaking prodigy.net!!! )

I can only wonder if Carr is going to be the first one to go up in the Texans' Bull Ring of Fire or whatever they will call it.
-----

Just to clarify something... just because Zorn and Tarkenton failed to improve their team's records as expansion clubs, doesn't mean that they equate to Carr. Carr is unique in the history of the NFL... Zorn and Tarkenton were both individual stand outs compared to their peers ( and also had horrible offensive lines ).
-----

on another note... I talked to some witches about Carr ( you know, real pagan witches ) and they pointed out that if you knock an 8 over on its side... it's a portent for an act of eternity. Like the symbol moebius or infinity.

Carr FOREVER MAN!!!!

If that happens, I am going to ask St.Peter for a refund.

SamuraiSword
01-31-2007, 10:32 PM
Of course. Just stay on the Chicago bandwagon for now and jump over the Colts if they happen to win. That way you'll always have be on a winning team. Lots of people do it.


Man you are such an ***. I wonder if you will even be here if Carr leaves Houston.

I would take Rex Grossman over David Carr anytime of the week.

Aztequila
02-01-2007, 02:21 AM
No way, no how. We better bring in an instant star or else....

And that instant star is... Jake Plummer? Sage? Kolb? I don't know guys, but these options seem a bit thin. Let's bring Troy Aikman out of retirement, maybe pick up Kerry Collins, Vinnie Testaverde, or Kurt Warner. It seems like we are getting to that point. Its like you just someone else, no matter who. If thats the attitude we take and pursue, we will be in for another long season.

QB75
02-01-2007, 07:07 AM
Man you are such an ***. I wonder if you will even be here if Carr leaves Houston.

I would take Rex Grossman over David Carr anytime of the week.

Many people on this board would do so too. I'm just glad that football savvy people are running organization instead.

My response was to a supposed Texan fan posting a Bears avatar this week who was whining about going to find another team so he could "support a winner". Sorry, that's weak.

Carr Bombed
02-01-2007, 07:25 AM
Many people on this board would do so too. I'm just glad that football savvy people are running organization instead.

My response was to a supposed Texan fan posting a Bears avatar this week who was whining about going to find another team so he could "support a winner". Sorry, that's weak.

No whats weak, is thats not even what happened. TEXANS84, is one of the longest members on this board, in fact he's a moderator. All he said was, he doesn't want to be a fan of a team that doesn't have Playoff aspirations every year, because you said, It is not imperative that they make the playoffs in 2007 - only that they improve the personnel and try to win a few more games.

The only reason why he's sporting da Bears, is because liked he said, he lived there. It is possible to be a fan of two teams, especially when they don't even play in the same conference and they are playing against a divisional foe.

Tayton
02-01-2007, 07:58 AM
Man you are such an ***. I wonder if you will even be here if Carr leaves Houston.

I would take Rex Grossman over David Carr anytime of the week.

You didn't watch many Bear games. Grossman has the ability to look decent, but also can look like he doesn't belong in the NFL, way worse than Carr. Yes I've watched. I spent my first 20 years in Chicago and the last 20 here in Houston. I have the games sent to me from friends and family. I don't care what anybody on the boards says I have 2 teams.

HoustonFrog
02-01-2007, 08:07 AM
You didn't watch many Bear games. Grossman has the ability to look decent, but also can look like he doesn't belong in the NFL, way worse than Carr. Yes I've watched. I spent my first 20 years in Chicago and the last 20 here in Houston. I have the games sent to me from friends and family. I don't care what anybody on the boards says I have 2 teams.

I know Grossman had 4 or so stinkers but didn't he also have 8-9 with over 100 QB rating?I don't put much in QB ratings and all, I just thought I had read that.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2007, 09:21 AM
Man you are such an ***. I wonder if you will even be here if Carr leaves Houston.

I would take Rex Grossman over David Carr anytime of the week.

I would choose the curtain .

El Tejano
02-01-2007, 09:48 AM
I guess that answers that question, Tarkenton & Zorn were with their expansion teams for 6 years minimum.

Tarkenton also went to Superbowls after Kapp wasn't there so that really doesnt say much for Kapp. Kraig wallowed in mediocrity after that Championship game as well.
And for the longets time led the NFL in most fumbles by a QB.

SESupergenius
02-01-2007, 12:52 PM
Or else what?? Start David Carr?? That's just stupid.

He doesn't understand the game. You have to tell him when to throw the ball.... there have been 4 offensive Coordinators that have denied David Carr the QBs right to call audibles....

Our back up is allowed to call audibles...... lets start him.

That's a lie, Pendry actually let him call audibles in the 1st half of the Rams game and guess what, Carr torched them with 3 td's. Then in the 2nd half Pendry took over and we scored a singe FG. Don't go making a weak case based on your 'wishes', stick to facts.

OH and here is a little something from Kubiak regarding the audibles last season
While Kubiak has confidence in Carr, hes not quite ready to hand the keys to his offense to him just yet. When asked if Carr had the ability to audible at the line of scrimmage, Kubiak explained Monday that he doesnt operate his offense that way.
We dont check very much in our scheme, Kubiak said. We feel like what we call adjusts to whats going on. As far as him having a ton of freedom at the line of scrimmage, I dont operate that way. We will check out of bad plays, but just to go up there and say, do whatever you want to do, were not at that point yet. Maybe well get there someday, but we dont do much of that.

real
02-01-2007, 01:01 PM
we’re not at that point yet. Maybe we’ll get there someday...

That should tell you something.

old football fan
02-01-2007, 01:05 PM
That should tell you something.

Means Kubiak installed a new offense and doesn't trust ALL his players to be completly on board yet. Notice I said all and that includes the QB.

real
02-01-2007, 01:38 PM
Means Kubiak installed a new offense and doesn't trust ALL his players to be completly on board yet. Notice I said all and that includes the QB.

We can argue about the reasons all day, because Kubiak didn't give one.

Making audibles have everything to do with the QB's ability to understand the game and little to do with his teammates.

Is it possible that Carr's understanding was a bit cloudy because of the new offense? SURE!!!

But, I have a hunch, thats not all that was hindering Carr's ability to understand the game.

old football fan
02-01-2007, 02:34 PM
You may be right. Who really knows for sure. And I doubt that we will ever found out for sure.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 03:30 PM
That's a lie, Pendry actually let him call audibles in the 1st half of the Rams game and guess what, Carr torched them with 3 td's. Then in the 2nd half Pendry took over and we scored a singe FG. Don't go making a weak case based on your 'wishes', stick to facts.

OH and here is a little something from Kubiak regarding the audibles last season

SES....... do you understand the quote you provided actually helps my argument??

"We're not there yet..... maybe one day.........."

When he said "We don't work like that" he meant we as in He & David Carr. Had he a competent QB, this wouldn't be a question, because he would have the opportunity to call audibles....

Calling audibles doesn't mean doing what ever you want.

SESupergenius
02-01-2007, 03:39 PM
When he said "We don't work like that" he meant we as in He & David Carr. Had he a competent QB, this wouldn't be a question, because he would have the opportunity to call audibles....

Calling audibles doesn't mean doing what ever you want.
Do you have backup to qualify that answer that Kubiak mean it between him and Carr? Given that everyone is new to this offensive system I could see Kubiak stating this about EVERYONE in the unit, not singling out the QB. But still, I don't know how this helps your argument when Kubak clearly states that “We don’t check very much in our scheme". I tend to take that as his scheme he brought over from Denver where they didn't audible there either. Call me crazy.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Do you have backup to qualify that answer that Kubiak mean it between him and Carr? Given that everyone is new to this offensive system I could see Kubiak stating this about EVERYONE in the unit, not singling out the QB. But still, I don't know how this helps your argument when Kubak clearly states that We dont check very much in our scheme". I tend to take that as his scheme he brought over from Denver where they didn't audible there either. Call me crazy.

I don't need back up, look at the rest of your quote......

We will check out of bad plays,

When have you seen David check out of a bad play??

Remember that reverse in the Oakland game, when Kubiak chewed his butt on the sideline?? I bet he was supposed to decide who was supposed to get the ball..... the RB running off right tackle, or the receiver running the reverse. There was a defender covering another reciever at the LOS... a LB on Kevin Walter in the slot on the left side. Walter was audibled to the right side, and the defense didn't adjust. The LB on the Left was coming on a blitz, and he's the one who stuffed AJ for a -11 yards running the reverse. But since the defense didn't adjust, we had a numbers advantage on the right side, & that play would have gone for big yards. We at least would have converted that 3rd & 3 & gone on to get a TD instead of the FG.

texans83
02-01-2007, 04:20 PM
Kubes wont let david check off

real
02-01-2007, 04:26 PM
Do you have backup to qualify that answer that Kubiak mean it between him and Carr? Given that everyone is new to this offensive system I could see Kubiak stating this about EVERYONE in the unit, not singling out the QB.

The hardest thing about making an audible is selecting a good play to audible to, which is the QB's job. The hardest thing for Carr's teammates to do would be to recieve the audible, which isn't hard at all considering all they have to do is understand the call. The success or failure of an audible falls on the QB.


But still, I don't know how this helps your argument when Kubak clearly states that We dont check very much in our scheme".


I believe that part of his statement. But does that mean the end of his statement, where he said, "we aren't at that point yet" should be disregarded ?

SESupergenius
02-01-2007, 05:25 PM
So if we don't need backup our comments we can just make $#9# up then. I'm just looking at what Kubiak is saying and what he has done in Denver. Denver didn't audible much either and David Carr was not there. So in essence Kubiak is saying that his scheme doesn't audible much. I can back that up with a quote from the Texans website in which it states "When asked if Carr had the ability to audible at the line of scrimmage, Kubiak explained Monday that he doesn’t operate his offense that way." Notice the word "his". Not Carr's, Not Shermans, not McNairs. Kubiaks. The same offense that he used in Denver where Plummer didn't audible much either.

So I can emphaticly say that Kubiak doesn't audible at the line of scrimmage much. This is fact. I backed it up.

Now bring me what you have that is fact.


As far as having seen David check out of a bad play, yes, It "looked" like he audibled out of a play where Dayne ran for a good 8 yards. Now how you know what a bad play to begin with is just a matter of what the coaches call, where they line up and what matchups we have. It would be difficult for anyone to see that. How do we know successful plays are not audibled bad plays?

Lucky
02-01-2007, 06:02 PM
The hardest thing about making an audible is selecting a good play to audible to, which is the QB's job.
No. Audibles are predetermined by the coaches during the week. If the QB sees a certain look from the defense, he has a play to check into from that formation or player grouping. Or maybe 2 plays. Peyton Manning might have 3. The QB doesn't have the entire playbook at his disposal.

The Pencil Neck
02-01-2007, 06:13 PM
Kubes wont let david check off

Well, waitasecond. Is that really true?

Didn't Kubiak get all in Carr's face because he audibled to a reverse in one game when we were in a 3rd or 4th and short situation? And then after the game or the next day, Kubiak apologized for getting in Carr's grill because Carr just made the audible that they'd told him to make during the week.

I'm pretty sure I remember that happening. And if it did, then obviously, Carr was able to call audibles at least on occasion.

SESupergenius
02-01-2007, 06:16 PM
Facts are killlers.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 06:17 PM
Well, waitasecond. Is that really true?

Didn't Kubiak get all in Carr's face because he audibled to a reverse in one game when we were in a 3rd or 4th and short situation? And then after the game or the next day, Kubiak apologized for getting in Carr's grill because Carr just made the audible that they'd told him to make during the week.

I'm pretty sure I remember that happening. And if it did, then obviously, Carr was able to call audibles at least on occasion.

That was the play I was talking about.... it wasn't an audible... that was the play. But I think David was supposed to see that extra blitzer on the left side & give the ball to the RB..... If the Defense would have adjusted and cheated over to the right, then the play was supposed to go to AJ on the reverse.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 06:24 PM
So if we don't need backup our comments we can just make $#9# up then. I'm just looking at what Kubiak is saying and what he has done in Denver. Denver didn't audible much either and David Carr was not there. So in essence Kubiak is saying that his scheme doesn't audible much. I can back that up with a quote from the Texans website in which it states "When asked if Carr had the ability to audible at the line of scrimmage, Kubiak explained Monday that he doesn’t operate his offense that way." Notice the word "his". Not Carr's, Not Shermans, not McNairs. Kubiaks. The same offense that he used in Denver where Plummer didn't audible much either.

So I can emphaticly say that Kubiak doesn't audible at the line of scrimmage much. This is fact. I backed it up.

Now bring me what you have that is fact.


As far as having seen David check out of a bad play, yes, It "looked" like he audibled out of a play where Dayne ran for a good 8 yards. Now how you know what a bad play to begin with is just a matter of what the coaches call, where they line up and what matchups we have. It would be difficult for anyone to see that. How do we know successful plays are not audibled bad plays?

The fact that you are saying he doesn't audible much in his system backs up what I'm saying.... I'm not saying I don't have to back up what I say & you should just take my word........ I'm saying I don't have to back up what I'm saying, because your quotes...... and now your argument backs up what I'm saying.

Doesn't audible much is the same as saying "we do audible, but we won't let David audible because he has a poor grasp of the game"

Doesn't audible much in Denver is the same as saying they did allow the QB to audible out of a bad play, they were just so good at making the right offensive calls, that they didn't have to do it often......

& just in case you want to go ahead and believe that reverse in the oakland game was the "not much" that Kubiak was talking about, I doubt not much means "we'll try it out in week 13..... if it doesn't work out, I'll chew my QB out on the sideline"

& in your quote from HoustonTexans.com Kubiak says, "We'll check out of bad plays" which is an audible, yet David isn't allowed to do it. So again, I don't have to back anything up, because you already did.

facts brah...... they're motherf@#ers.

thunderkyss
02-01-2007, 06:31 PM
As far as having seen David check out of a bad play, yes, It "looked" like he audibled out of a play where Dayne ran for a good 8 yards. Now how you know what a bad play to begin with is just a matter of what the coaches call, where they line up and what matchups we have. It would be difficult for anyone to see that. How do we know successful plays are not audibled bad plays?

Which game, and try to narrow it down a bit for me so I can find it........ first half, third Qtr...... second possession of the second QTr....... something, because I don't recall any audible David ever made from the LOS.

It may be difficult to see for David Carr, but anyone could see S.Williams waiting for the reverse on that 3rd & 3 on the Oakland 12....

Anyone could see Greg Ellis lined up man on man on Owen Daniels, and know this would be the perfect time to call that go route.... Since the safety is cheating over Moulds in the slot. Or at least know enough not to call him to the RT when the play is a run off right tackle. (FYI Greg Ellis was the guy who first hit Dayne behind the LOS on that play).

edo783
02-01-2007, 09:36 PM
That was the play I was talking about.... it wasn't an audible... that was the play. But I think David was supposed to see that extra blitzer on the left side & give the ball to the RB..... If the Defense would have adjusted and cheated over to the right, then the play was supposed to go to AJ on the reverse.

Wrong, it was an audible. I think it is here on the main site somewhere that you can find out that Kubes said he got in his grill FOR doing an audible, but it turned out it was EXACTLY what they had told him to do in that situation and he appoligized for getting on Carr.

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 06:47 AM
Wrong, it was an audible. I think it is here on the main site somewhere that you can find out that Kubes said he got in his grill FOR doing an audible, but it turned out it was EXACTLY what they had told him to do in that situation and he appoligized for getting on Carr.

I understand what Kubiak said... but I believe he is flat out lying to protect David..... and to some extent McNair.

There is no way I will believe the right call was to audible to that side with S.Williams sitting on the play......... it was obvious the play would go for nothing. I can understand if the defense had cheated to the right, moving Sam Williams closer to the left tackle. Then either the tackle would take him out of the play, or if he'd have made the slightest bite on the RB, AJ would have been able to run around him.

But he lined up on Walter in the slot, when Walter was motioned to the right side, the Safety went with Walter, showing the free blitz from Williams.... he was so far off the LT, with no one to block him, the reverse had no chance.

To me, this smells like David making the right reads, & the right calls in practice..... but not in the game. He should have seen the free blitzer on the Left.... understood that his responsibility was not Walter as it appeared, but the Safety's as the motion to the right revealed... the play should have gone to the right.

why is it easier to believe that David did exactly what he was supposed to do when the play went for -11 yards, on a 3rd & 3 from the Oak 12, than it is to believe that he screwed up?? Not to many OCs..... or offensive play callers draw up plays designed to lose 11 yards when it is the right call.

If it was the right call, then someone had to have done something wrong. AJ on the reverse?? Maybe he wasn't fast enough to get to the exchange.. maybe. but I'm not buying that.

Maybe the RB was supposed to come off the left side, and block...... but then it wouldn't have been much of a reverse.

Maybe the defense just sniffed it out, and made a heck of a play....

that's possible. But if the LB is standing there showing Blitz..... I don't see how that was the right call on offense.

He's showing blitz, we expect him to blitz.... there's no way we can expect AJ to beat him around the left side....... if he were blitzing from the right side maybe.....

So in my mind, the only way that could have been the right play, was if David had the option to give the ball to the RB, or AJ. In this case, giving it to the RB would have been the right choice. Giving it to AJ would be reason to tear David a new A-Hole.

BigWig
02-02-2007, 07:19 AM
Whatever, Davey needs to go anyway, its been 5 long years!

real
02-02-2007, 10:42 AM
No. Audibles are predetermined by the coaches during the week. If the QB sees a certain look from the defense, he has a play to check into from that formation or player grouping. Or maybe 2 plays. Peyton Manning might have 3. The QB doesn't have the entire playbook at his disposal.


Making assumptions, often leads to a waste of time....

edo783
02-02-2007, 11:03 AM
I understand what Kubiak said... but I believe he is flat out lying to protect David

So, you discount what is actually said and then interject what you wished he had said and then pass that as fact (yes, you did that in your post). Interesting.

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 11:39 AM
So, you discount what is actually said and then interject what you wished he had said and then pass that as fact (yes, you did that in your post). Interesting.

Just like the immediate reassurance that David will start the Giants game, it's pretty obvious that the kid gloves are on when concerning David Carr.

& then to apologize on national T.V. about chewing a player out on the football field?? I've never heard of anything like that......

Then factor in that we wait 'till week 13 to debut our QBs ability to audible a play, and we are supposed to believe that our coaches have been teaching David the wrong reads this whole time??

you can believe what you want.... but David screwed up on that play.

Mr. White
02-02-2007, 11:44 AM
Just like the immediate reassurance that David will start the Giants game, it's pretty obvious that the kid gloves are on when concerning David Carr.


See also...

The (non) player introductions vs. the Titans.
McNair's public "vote of confidence" after said Titans game.

..and that's just from one week in this season.

The organization is going out of its way to protect Carr's feelings. It can't be good for the rest of the roster.

old football fan
02-02-2007, 11:45 AM
I understand what Kubiak said... but I believe he is flat out lying to protect David..... and to some extent McNair.

There is no way I will believe the right call was to audible to that side with S.Williams sitting on the play......... it was obvious the play would go for nothing. I can understand if the defense had cheated to the right, moving Sam Williams closer to the left tackle. Then either the tackle would take him out of the play, or if he'd have made the slightest bite on the RB, AJ would have been able to run around him.

But he lined up on Walter in the slot, when Walter was motioned to the right side, the Safety went with Walter, showing the free blitz from Williams.... he was so far off the LT, with no one to block him, the reverse had no chance.

To me, this smells like David making the right reads, & the right calls in practice..... but not in the game. He should have seen the free blitzer on the Left.... understood that his responsibility was not Walter as it appeared, but the Safety's as the motion to the right revealed... the play should have gone to the right.

why is it easier to believe that David did exactly what he was supposed to do when the play went for -11 yards, on a 3rd & 3 from the Oak 12, than it is to believe that he screwed up?? Not to many OCs..... or offensive play callers draw up plays designed to lose 11 yards when it is the right call.

If it was the right call, then someone had to have done something wrong. AJ on the reverse?? Maybe he wasn't fast enough to get to the exchange.. maybe. but I'm not buying that.

Maybe the RB was supposed to come off the left side, and block...... but then it wouldn't have been much of a reverse.

Maybe the defense just sniffed it out, and made a heck of a play....

that's possible. But if the LB is standing there showing Blitz..... I don't see how that was the right call on offense.

He's showing blitz, we expect him to blitz.... there's no way we can expect AJ to beat him around the left side....... if he were blitzing from the right side maybe.....

So in my mind, the only way that could have been the right play, was if David had the option to give the ball to the RB, or AJ. In this case, giving it to the RB would have been the right choice. Giving it to AJ would be reason to tear David a new A-Hole.

Must be nice to have so much knowledge about what Kubiak does and says to be able to call him a liar, cheat and low down good for nothing coach. Yes of course it must be as you say it was. You were right there in between Kubiak and Carr when it happened. Our mistake. It's good to know that the Texans have a coach like you on the team. Am I being a little nasty! Yes, but I am so tired of people saying I know this or he said this but meant this when in truth we have no idea what we are talking about. Now go ahead and rip me because I really don't care.

real
02-02-2007, 11:46 AM
Just like the immediate reassurance that David will start the Giants game, it's pretty obvious that the kid gloves are on when concerning David Carr.

& then to apologize on national T.V. about chewing a player out on the football field?? I've never heard of anything like that......

Then factor in that we wait 'till week 13 to debut our QBs ability to audible a play, and we are supposed to believe that our coaches have been teaching David the wrong reads this whole time??

you can believe what you want.... but David screwed up on that play.

I agree with this man.

SESupergenius
02-02-2007, 06:09 PM
I agree with this man.

No really? That is a first. We've never seen this before.:tomato:

SESupergenius
02-02-2007, 06:12 PM
Then factor in that we wait 'till week 13 to debut our QBs ability to audible a play, and we are supposed to believe that our coaches have been teaching David the wrong reads this whole time??
That statement isn't even fact. Ridiculous. Show me some proof that Carr had to wait until week 13 to debut his ability to audible a play. That is just dumb and weak.

thunderkyss
02-02-2007, 10:02 PM
That statement isn't even fact. Ridiculous. Show me some proof that Carr had to wait until week 13 to debut his ability to audible a play. That is just dumb and weak.

My proof is that he did not audible up to that point....... & even that play, I don't believe was an audible. I don't believe he audibled all year, but since you want to believe he did, I'm saying that was the first..... unless you can recall another time.

Better yet, to keep it honest, you don't have to say anything.

& so I don't sound like a hater, I won't say anything.

Anybody else come in on this thread....... Carr Fan or not....... Tell us when did Carr call his first audible this year??

threetoedpete
02-02-2007, 10:19 PM
nope nothing new. :bubble:

Navy_Chris
02-03-2007, 01:30 AM
nope nothing new. :bubble:

Remember the end of the 2005 season when Dan Reeves was brought in as a special assistant? It was Reeves' idea to let David call his own plays, and when he did that the offense moved down the field much more effectively than they normally do.

With that being said, Kubiak doesn't like David to audible because it's not his (Kubiak's) style of play. Gary was testing out David this season to determine if Carr is the right man for this job. This past season when we went 6-10 was, in my opinion, a trial phase for Gary and his new staff. What works/what doesn't work? Who do we want/who should we let go/who should we trade?

Bottom line is...David will not be here next season. We will start the season, in all likelihood with Sage starting at QB. Even if Plummer is let go by the Broncos, it's not a lock that he'd even want to come here. There are a NUMBER of teams that would love to have Jake come play for them.

QB75
02-03-2007, 05:12 PM
Remember the end of the 2005 season when Dan Reeves was brought in as a special assistant? It was Reeves' idea to let David call his own plays, and when he did that the offense moved down the field much more effectively than they normally do.

With that being said, Kubiak doesn't like David to audible because it's not his (Kubiak's) style of play. Gary was testing out David this season to determine if Carr is the right man for this job. This past season when we went 6-10 was, in my opinion, a trial phase for Gary and his new staff. What works/what doesn't work? Who do we want/who should we let go/who should we trade?

Bottom line is...David will not be here next season. We will start the season, in all likelihood with Sage starting at QB. Even if Plummer is let go by the Broncos, it's not a lock that he'd even want to come here. There are a NUMBER of teams that would love to have Jake come play for them.

So, if Carr won't be here, but Plummer won't be here either.... who is going to be our other QB?

old football fan
02-03-2007, 05:19 PM
So, if Carr won't be here, but Plummer won't be here either.... who is going to be our other QB?

"BACKMAN" known as Sage Roaenfels to us nonsuper humans

Navy_Chris
02-03-2007, 05:25 PM
"BACKMAN" known as Sage Roaenfels to us nonsuper humans

Kevin Kolb should be the guy that's here backing up Sage. In my opinion, he's the 3rd best QB in this draft behind Russell and Quinn. I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans disappointed again and drafted someone like Gutierrez from Idaho State or Moore from Oregon State, neither of whom can hold a candle to Kolb.

The Pencil Neck
02-03-2007, 05:30 PM
So, if Carr won't be here, but Plummer won't be here either.... who is going to be our other QB?

I'd guess Navy Chris is betting on either Van Pelt, Porter stepping up from the Practice Squad, we get someone via a trade, FA, or we draft someone.

I'm just guessing, though. But there aren't a whole bunch of other options.

It's not even officially the off-season, yet. We could be in for a ton of surprises before the season starts.

Navy_Chris
02-03-2007, 05:39 PM
I'd guess Navy Chris is betting on either Van Pelt, Porter stepping up from the Practice Squad, we get someone via a trade, FA, or we draft someone.

I'm just guessing, though. But there aren't a whole bunch of other options.

It's not even officially the off-season, yet. We could be in for a ton of surprises before the season starts.

Sadly, Quinton Porter is no longer on the PS. He was allocated to NFL Europe along with John Walker about a month ago.

QB75
02-03-2007, 05:51 PM
Kevin Kolb should be the guy that's here backing up Sage. In my opinion, he's the 3rd best QB in this draft behind Russell and Quinn. I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans disappointed again and drafted someone like Gutierrez from Idaho State or Moore from Oregon State, neither of whom can hold a candle to Kolb.

Sage and Kolb. Uh-huh. Sure. It's suggestions like these that lead me to believe that Carr is staying.

They might be wiiling to keep Sage, sign Plummer and trade Carr (while choking down some of his contract) but they aren't going with Sage and a rookie.

Personally, I believe that they are going keep Carr, save the money that would have gome to Plummer, and spend it on other players.

thunderkyss
02-03-2007, 05:58 PM
Sage and Kolb. Uh-huh. Sure. It's suggestions like these that lead me to believe that Carr is staying.

They might be wiiling to keep Sage, sign Plummer and trade Carr (while choking down some of his contract) but they aren't going with Sage and a rookie.

Personally, I believe that they are going keep Carr, save the money that would have gome to Plummer, and spend it on other players.

Van Pelt's been with Kubiak for the last three years....... if anyone would back up Sage, it would be Bradlee.

'Sides, if Carr wasn't here, would you be?? Would you still root for the Texans if we choke down some of that contract(FYI, we save $3 million towards the cap if we flat out cut David.).....

If David were a Dolphin next year, which team would you root for when we go head to head??

old football fan
02-03-2007, 05:59 PM
Sadly, Quinton Porter is no longer on the PS. He was allocated to NFL Europe along with John Walker about a month ago.

He still belongs to the Texans and baring a trade will be in training camp

edo783
02-03-2007, 08:51 PM
IMO, I look for the Texans to take a long look at Stanton or Kolb to be the
3rd QB. (yes, we will carry 3) The starters will very likely result from a camp shootout with Carr, Plummer & Sage doing the shooting. The best starts, the second best is the backup and the last guy looks for a new job. The main issue will be the contract dollars for Carr & Plummer. Porter and the new guy duke it out for the 3rd/development spot and IMO, I doubt Porter wins the spot.

tsip
02-03-2007, 11:48 PM
Van Pelt's been with Kubiak for the last three years....... if anyone would back up Sage, it would be Bradlee.

'Sides, if Carr wasn't here, would you be?? Would you still root for the Texans if we choke down some of that contract(FYI, we save $3 million towards the cap if we flat out cut David.).....

If David were a Dolphin next year, which team would you root for when we go head to head??

...going to Miami? Let's see how bad the $3 million dollar 'super' coach (aka Dom Capers) will lobby for his buddy Carr--bet that will never happen

SamuraiSword
02-04-2007, 12:23 AM
Van Pelt's been with Kubiak for the last three years....... if anyone would back up Sage, it would be Bradlee.

'Sides, if Carr wasn't here, would you be?? Would you still root for the Texans if we choke down some of that contract(FYI, we save $3 million towards the cap if we flat out cut David.).....

If David were a Dolphin next year, which team would you root for when we go head to head??

I bet van pelt can do better than David Carr!:aikido:

( I personally don't think QB75 would be here if Carr goes.)

QB75
02-04-2007, 01:21 PM
Van Pelt's been with Kubiak for the last three years....... if anyone would back up Sage, it would be Bradlee.

'Sides, if Carr wasn't here, would you be?? Would you still root for the Texans if we choke down some of that contract(FYI, we save $3 million towards the cap if we flat out cut David.).....

If David were a Dolphin next year, which team would you root for when we go head to head??

Oh....you must referring to the "Texan fans" who were whining about the team passing on Vince Young, and therefore pulled for the Titans in those games this year. No, I'm not in their camp. I always want the Texans to win.

NFLforher
02-04-2007, 03:59 PM
[QUOTE=thunderkyss;588396
'Sides, if Carr wasn't here, would you be?? Would you still root for the Texans if we choke down some of that contract(FYI, we save $3 million towards the cap if we flat out cut David.).....

If David were a Dolphin next year, which team would you root for when we go head to head??[/QUOTE]



Texans. Period.

Honoring Earl 34
02-04-2007, 04:18 PM
March 2: Free Agency period begins. Trading period begins for 2007

Mon, February 5 Forecasts for Your Golf Game

12am Partly Cloudy
-7F
-25F 10% -17F 55% From WNW 12 mph

1am Partly Cloudy
-7F
-25F 10% -17F 55% From WNW 12 mph

2am Partly Cloudy
-8F
-27F 10% -17F 59% From WNW 12 mph

3am Partly Cloudy
-8F
-27F 10% -17F 59% From W 12 mph

4am Partly Cloudy
-8F
-27F 10% -17F 59% From WNW 12 mph

Houston to Green Bay ... get a parka .

Mr. White
02-05-2007, 10:01 AM
I just heard John Granato say that some stuff is happening behind the scenes...and it's looking unlikely that Carr will be back next year.

Anybody else hear it?

rafterticket
02-05-2007, 10:46 AM
I just heard John Granato say that some stuff is happening behind the scenes...and it's looking unlikely that Carr will be back next year.

Anybody else hear it?

How about Carr for a third rounder to Chicago?

Did Rex even get on the plane last night?

QB75
02-05-2007, 01:16 PM
I just heard John Granato say that some stuff is happening behind the scenes...and it's looking unlikely that Carr will be back next year.

Anybody else hear it?

Uh...yeah he's been saying it since the Texans beat the Colts and Browns at the end of the year.