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View Full Version : Another update on Plummer coming to Houston


the wonger need food
01-25-2007, 12:03 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

shinerbock_girl
01-25-2007, 12:17 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

I just have this feeling he will end up here...

ledzeppelin229
01-25-2007, 12:22 PM
I just have this feeling he will end up here...

It's definitely looking that way. It will be nice to have Plummer and Carr duke it out with the winner getting the job...Kubiak isn't playing any favoritism games with Carr or else he would have already endorsed him as the lone starter.

TEXANS84
01-25-2007, 12:24 PM
It's definitely looking that way. It will be nice to have Plummer and Carr duke it out with the winner getting the job...Kubiak isn't playing any favoritism games with Carr or else he would have already endorsed him as the lone starter.

I don't know if it'll end up that way. I don't know that we'll carry 3 quarterbacks. Someone's got to go.

TexanFanInCC
01-25-2007, 12:28 PM
well why not cut carr and that big salary? that seems logical to me.

thunderkyss
01-25-2007, 12:29 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

According to that article, we may end up having to give them Sage....

ledzeppelin229
01-25-2007, 12:35 PM
I don't know if it'll end up that way. I don't know that we'll carry 3 quarterbacks. Someone's got to go.

I really wish we would...Or at least find someone else that can take the backup QBs special teams role. Watching our second option at QB get hurt while option #1 stinks it up more than a New Jersey sewer rat's fecal matter is not something I want to see next season (is that the smelliest combination possible? In any case, I tried. I still don't know if it appropriately conveys the smellitude).

I also don't want another #3 QB situation like a couple years ago. And if it comes to getting rid of someone...Carr is a fine person but he's had his chances. Not only has he not improved (other than the very beginning) he has extremely terrible games with his "improvement" games barely reaching mediocre. Let Sage and Jake battle it out at that point, preferably with a rookie that can take over at some point in the next couple years. That would actually be a better scenario IMO than Carr - Plummer - Sage.

Double Barrel
01-25-2007, 12:37 PM
According to that article, we may end up having to give them Sage....

I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.

ledzeppelin229
01-25-2007, 12:40 PM
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.

I agree about his money. Maybe we could give him a decent deal with incentives if he starts a certain number of games. Would playing under Kubiak again with a legit shot at the starting job be enough incentive to take a reduced contract this season?

shinerbock_girl
01-25-2007, 12:49 PM
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.

And what frustrates me is Sage hasn't even been givin a chance yet...I mean a real chance.

Honoring Earl 34
01-25-2007, 12:52 PM
And what frustrates me is Sage hasn't even been givin a chance yet...I mean a real chance.

Sage will not get a shot in Denver that's for sure . He's much better off here I guess .

shinerbock_girl
01-25-2007, 12:54 PM
Sage will not get a shot in Denver that's for sure . He's much better off here I guess .

Exactly...

TwinSisters
01-25-2007, 01:01 PM
Uh... that article failed to mention the Raiders.

Raiders are in the market for just about everything... and depending on how Jake "really" feels about Denver, I would say Oakland is just as much in the market for him as Miami, Houston, and Cleveland.

Not so sure how he would feel about getting plays from Coach Doogie Kiffin, A.A., though.

eriadoc
01-25-2007, 01:20 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

To be clear, the bolded part is speculation by the author of the article, substantiated by nothing at all. Not that we don't believe it, but don't get your hopes all up that this is a quote out of Texans camp or something.

hobie
01-25-2007, 01:28 PM
And what frustrates me is Sage hasn't even been givin a chance yet...I mean a real chance.

What do you mean, he had his chance playing special teams... :stirpot:

jerek
01-25-2007, 01:34 PM
What's hilarious to me is that you guys are grasping at every possible straw--no matter how insignificant--you can find to endorse Carr being out of here, and yet how quickly you seem to forget the way in which every single media voice in the country last year reported definitively on our drafting Reggie Bush for months as if it was a done deal, until virtually hours before the draft.

Is it possible we pick up Jake, given that he's probably only a small improvement over Carr, yet is older and would cost a lot of money to acquire? Sure. Is it likely? I just don't see it. We have too many other positions in worse need of upgrade, and I'm still not convinced the coaches are that dissatisfied with his improvement here.

the wonger need food
01-25-2007, 01:43 PM
What's hilarious to me is that you guys are grasping at every possible straw--no matter how insignificant--you can find to endorse Carr being out of here

Carr's pathetic play over 5 years is the only endorsement most of us need.

ledzeppelin229
01-25-2007, 01:43 PM
What's hilarious to me is that you guys are grasping at every possible straw--no matter how insignificant--you can find to endorse Carr being out of here, and yet how quickly you seem to forget the way in which every single media voice in the country last year reported on our drafting Reggie Bush for months as if it was a done deal, until virtually hours before the draft.

Is it possible we pick up Jake, given that he's probably only a small improvement over Carr, yet is older and would cost a lot of money to acquire? Sure. Is it likely? I just don't see it. We have too many other positions in worse need of upgrade, and I'm still not convinced the coaches are that dissatisfied with his improvement here.

Well I don't think they're satisfied. So if they aren't dissatisfied, but probably not delusional enough to be "satisfied", does that make them indifferent? Unless someone offers a decent deal for Carr I'm assuming he will be back, but I want some real competition. And if Sage gets hurt for whatever reason I don't want to be forced to stick with Carr all season just because he's the Default QB. Give Sage a realistic shot and draft a rookie. If Plummer will come here cheap for a year, do that. I don't care. I want Carr's back to be on the anvil with the hammer looming overhead, and if he can't handle it, someone else gets a shot. I don't care if it means a lack of continuity, because continuity with Carr under center equals continuous suck with a smidgen of mediocre.

If he can have an entire season like his first few games, I will gladly eat an entire flock of crow and enjoy every bite because the bottom line is that I want this team to win.

HomeBred_Texan
01-25-2007, 01:54 PM
Well then, let's really :stirpot:

Carr goes to Oakland for there 2nd round pick.
Plummer comes to Houston for Sage.

That way, Oakland can use there 1st overall on the man they really want, a Badass WR.

You guys that hate Carr, get your wish, he will be gone...

And for those of us who think Pummer is not the answer, will see us drafting in the top 5 next year and grabbing a franchise QB...

Chad Henne from Michigan, Brian Brohm from Louisville, or Colt Brennan from Hawaii...

Then with our 1st pick this year, we take AD, then with Oakland's 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder, we can address D or OL or both...

Would that make everyone happy? :hides:

painekiller
01-25-2007, 02:05 PM
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO.

Which is why Denver will have to cut him. They are not going to pay him the money he is making to be a back up, period. And there is no reason to let him play now that Cutler has shown he can grow into the position.

So we do not need to trade him, Plummer knows Kubiaks number and what his career was under him, Jake will call when he is released.

I am starting to warm up to the idea of having a guy that can make this team into winners, not just close to .500. Not saying Jake can take us to the promised land but he will take us past where we have been.

Maybe signing Jake, trading Carr, keeping Sage, and drafting a 3 round or later QB is the way to go. Let Jake and Sage lead this team to a playoff type team and let the draftee learn and hold the clip board. In a few years Jake, will become the old guy back up and the young guy should be ready, if they picked the right one.

Lucky
01-25-2007, 02:08 PM
According to that article, we may end up having to give them Sage....
Where did you get that from? Sage wasn't mentioned in the article.

Blu
01-25-2007, 02:13 PM
And for those of us who think Pummer is not the answer, will see us drafting in the top 5 next year and grabbing a franchise QB...

Chad Henne from Michigan, Brian Brohm from Louisville, or Colt Brennan from Hawaii...


Hey didn't Brennan say he was coming out after all?

Texans Horror
01-25-2007, 02:14 PM
Chad Henne from Michigan, Brian Brohm from Louisville, or Colt Brennan from Hawaii...

Then with our 1st pick this year, we take AD, then with Oakland's 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder, we can address D or OL or both...

Would that make everyone happy? :hides:

Already looking ahead to the 2008 draft pick? Ha! I think if the QB issue hasn't been addressed by then, a disgruntled AJ and Moulds are out of here. So now the Texans start over with a QB but no good WRs...

See the signature:

Buckle
01-25-2007, 02:54 PM
The only way I am for bringing in Plummer here is if he is released by the Broncos. Under NO circumstances would I be ok with the front office giving up a draft pick higher than a 5th rounder for him, we have too many holes and need to many things to give up anything higher than that. I don't even think that Plummer would be that much of a better option in my opinion. Kubiak's offense takes at least 2 years for a QB to be comfortable in and understand. I would much rather keep Carr give him his 2nd year in the offense with a better o-line and consistent running game and maybe draft a QB in a latter round this year or get one next year. Until the offensive line plays as a unit and can consistently block for the passing and running game we will continue with these problems.

Ole Miss Texan
01-25-2007, 03:08 PM
Hey didn't Brennan say he was coming out after all?

I think he said he was to get a draft grade and get an idea but decided to go back to school and didn't officially declare. He never got an agent.

unless things have changed in the last day or so...

texan2061
01-25-2007, 10:51 PM
He can't be any worse than Carr

thunderkyss
01-25-2007, 11:02 PM
Where did you get that from? Sage wasn't mentioned in the article.

The Broncos aren't going to release Jake unless they have a competent back up who is familiar with the system.

that would be Griese.... depending on how you define competent.....

or Sage....... depending on how you define veteran.

Lucky
01-26-2007, 12:41 AM
The Broncos aren't going to release Jake unless they have a competent back up who is familiar with the system.

that would be Griese.... depending on how you define competent.....

or Sage....... depending on how you define veteran.
OK, that's your opinion. That's not from the article. Here's what the article said regarding a Plummer trade:

The Broncos would take the full salary-cap hit of $8,556,000 if they trade Plummer, but anything they receive in return - most likely a draft pick - has to be worth more to the team than the cap savings it would get this year with a June 1 release.

The Broncos aren't going to take an $8+ million cap hit just to get Sage Rosenfels. And I don't think the Broncos will get a draft pick offer worth more than the $5.7 million cap savings they'll get from designating Plummer as a June 1 cut.

Because Plummer's salary-cap figure for 2007 is $8,605,000, to cut him after June 1 would give the Broncos $5,704,000 in cap room this year that currently isn't on the books.

The Broncos can get that savings earlier than June 1 if they formally designate in writing Plummer will be a June 1 cut before then.

When the new collective-bargaining agreement was reached in March, it allowed teams to designate two players each year as "June 1" cuts, allowing teams to use the cap savings sooner during the offseason.

Look for the Broncos to release, rather than trade, Jake. And look for the Texans to pick up Plummer once that happens.

t_flare
01-26-2007, 02:14 AM
I know u guys all want Plummer for some reason but lets look at it from his point of view..

Do I go to where the Money is? Or Do I go to where I can win a Championship?

Texans are not top of both lists..

Miami could be a spot that he would win better than the Texans, Jags might be intrested, Washington, Minn....

Ole Miss Texan
01-26-2007, 02:19 AM
I know u guys all want Plummer for some reason but lets look at it from his point of view..

Do I go to where the Money is? Or Do I go to where I can win a Championship?

Texans are not top of both lists..

Miami could be a spot that he would win better than the Texans, Jags might be intrested, Washington, Minn....

I would would (depending on my family/financial position)...
1) go to win a championship..
2) go where the money is...

3) and most likely for plummer...go where I can start because I won't be in the league much longer...and wan't to play and start.

mannyo123
01-26-2007, 03:59 AM
Just wait till Plummer gets cut. Whats that June? Then check out your options.

rockabilly
01-26-2007, 04:38 AM
I consider Plummer an upgrade to Carr. The Broncos, before this year, were in the playoffs almost every year. The Texans haven't even scratched the surface. If we can trade Carr for some kind of pick, and have Plummer, I can almost guarantee at least a wildcard.

I however do not want to give up Sage. I like the guy and wouldnt mind him starting if we dont get Plummer.

Aztequila
01-26-2007, 07:39 AM
Playoffs, with our offensive line, and defensive just starting to take form, I think we will be waiting until 2008, with or without plummer. Once we sure those two items up, any QB will get us there. Without, not even Peyton Manning is getting us to the playoffs.

wolfscar
01-26-2007, 07:55 AM
I hope not. Sage is a decent backup QB.

Based on that article, Plummer is too expensive, IMO. We might as well draft a kid to develop in the long run and take our chances with Super Dave. I don't see Plummer as a major upgrade over what we've already got, to be honest. And financially, we'd owe a lot of money to the QB position and we could really use those funds at other spots on this team.

Ditto.

wolfscar
01-26-2007, 08:05 AM
I consider Plummer an upgrade to Carr. The Broncos, before this year, were in the playoffs almost every year. The Texans haven't even scratched the surface. If we can trade Carr for some kind of pick, and have Plummer, I can almost guarantee at least a wildcard.

The year before last the Broncos were in the playoffs despite Plummer and this year he got dropped during a playoff run for a first year rookie. And this on a team with very few holes - unlike us. I think Plummer would be a sideways step at best right now.

I however do not want to give up Sage. I like the guy and wouldnt mind him starting if we dont get Plummer.

I like Sage too, but only as a backup. He had one good half game and a decent preseason - I don't understand why so many people have leapt to pin the starting QB job on a textbook backup. I firmly believe that Sage is right where he should be.

SamuraiSword
01-26-2007, 08:16 AM
What's hilarious to me is that you guys are grasping at every possible straw--no matter how insignificant--you can find to endorse Carr being out of here, and yet how quickly you seem to forget the way in which every single media voice in the country last year reported definitively on our drafting Reggie Bush for months as if it was a done deal, until virtually hours before the draft.

Is it possible we pick up Jake, given that he's probably only a small improvement over Carr, yet is older and would cost a lot of money to acquire? Sure. Is it likely? I just don't see it. We have too many other positions in worse need of upgrade, and I'm still not convinced the coaches are that dissatisfied with his improvement here.

Plummer a small improvement over Carr? Plummer wass 7-4 before he was dumped by the Broncos. Carr threw one touchdown in ten games. You also forget Kubiak loves Denver rejects. some of us are disatisfied with our QB. Everything has changed except him so no more excuses.

thunderkyss
01-26-2007, 08:26 AM
Playoffs, with our offensive line, and defensive just starting to take form, I think we will be waiting until 2008, with or without plummer. Once we sure those two items up, any QB will get us there. Without, not even Peyton Manning is getting us to the playoffs.

How so?? the Cowboys were in a similar position last year, & they made it into the Playoffs..... Same with the Jets. as a matter of fact, a 9-7 team made it into the play-offs in the AFC(Kansas City) & IMHO, we are as talented as the Cowboys, the Jets, & the Cheifs.

Mr. White
01-26-2007, 08:33 AM
I think that it was John McClain that started saying that we can expect Carr to be traded this offseason.

He says he hasn't heard anything specific from the organization. Even if he had heard something from the organization, I wouldn't expect him to say that he has. By saying that he hasn't heard anything specific, there are no questions about who his source is.

One thing is for sure here. For the first time in team history, Carr is being mentioned in trade rumors. And where there's smoke......

aj.
01-26-2007, 01:23 PM
Just wait till Plummer gets cut. Whats that June? .

It could happen as early as March 1.

NATHANHALE
01-26-2007, 03:51 PM
This is 'scratch my head' kind of stuff. OK, we have the posters that say Carr has never had 'everything' he needs around him to succeed like other QBs. Do the other 31 clubs all have this 'scenario' for their QBs?...just asking.

Secondly, as I understand it, to get Carr all the things Carr needs means getting--a better OL/star quality RB's/better WR's to go along with AJ (though he needs to drop fewer passes)/TE's, are we OK, here? And, finally, we need a better defense that can keep the other team from scoring so many points...oh,yes, almost forgot--with everything for David in place-we need to design schemes that cater to David's strengths.

Now, how much does all that cost and can we get it under the cap?

No, of course we can't, so what do we do....if Carr stays. JMO, but I don't think Carr is suddenly going to change after 5 yrs in the NFL so-if we keep him, what can we do as a team that we have the money for to improve Carr's play to a 'winning' level?

infantrycak
01-26-2007, 03:55 PM
Because of Plummer's original contract with the Broncos and subsequent renegotiations - three years remain on the deal - if the team cut the veteran before June 1, it would take a salary-cap hit of $8,556,000 for the 2007 season.

If the Broncos cut Plummer after June 1, the cap hit would be over two years - $2,852,000 in 2007 and $5,704,000 in 2008.

Because Plummer's salary-cap figure for 2007 is $8,605,000, to cut him after June 1 would give the Broncos $5,704,000 in cap room this year that currently isn't on the books.

When the new collective-bargaining agreement was reached in March, it allowed teams to designate two players each year as "June 1" cuts, allowing teams to use the cap savings sooner during the offseason.

The Broncos would take the full salary-cap hit of $8,556,000 if they trade Plummer, but anything they receive in return - most likely a draft pick - has to be worth more to the team than the cap savings it would get this year with a June 1 release.

Link (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html)

I hope the Texans aren't so enamored of Plummer as to make a trade for him. The Broncos are bluffing on keeping him around--no way they have a $8.5 mil cap hit disgruntled bench warmer. Plus, a trade means taking over his overpriced contract instead of negotiating a new deal after waiver.

edo783
01-26-2007, 06:31 PM
Link (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html)

I hope the Texans aren't so enamored of Plummer as to make a trade for him. The Broncos are bluffing on keeping him around--no way they have a $8.5 mil cap hit disgruntled bench warmer. Plus, a trade means taking over his overpriced contract instead of negotiating a new deal after waiver.

Ain't that the truth.

TXGRL
01-26-2007, 07:36 PM
And what frustrates me is Sage hasn't even been givin a chance yet...I mean a real chance.

I agree Texansgal8....I say we dump Carr, keep Sage.:ok:

t_flare
01-26-2007, 08:38 PM
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting... Sage got his chance before Houston... did bad in Miami... He played good against Titians (even tho they played prevent the whole time) but what about Dallas? He suck after he took over in Dallas.

It happens everywhere... Some people thinks Atlanta's backup is better than Vick

aj.
01-26-2007, 09:01 PM
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting...

Always?

I don't think Jim Sorgi, Kerry Collins, Drew Bledsoe, or whoever is backing up Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer or Brett Favre (for example) are more popular than the starters on their teams.

Backup QBs matter when the starter isn't getting it done on a consistent basis, or at all. That's why it's a hot topic in places like Houston, Jacksonville and even Chicago.

Double Barrel
01-26-2007, 09:04 PM
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting... Sage got his chance before Houston... did bad in Miami... He played good against Titians (even tho they played prevent the whole time) but what about Dallas? He suck after he took over in Dallas.

It happens everywhere... Some people thinks Atlanta's backup is better than Vick

While true about Rosenfels, he's also never had Kubiak as a coach. And Sage is our head coach's first QB hire, so that's got to count for something.

NATHANHALE
01-26-2007, 09:11 PM
backup qb's will always be popular than the starting... Sage got his chance before Houston... did bad in Miami... He played good against Titians (even tho they played prevent the whole time) but what about Dallas? He suck after he took over in Dallas.

It happens everywhere... Some people thinks Atlanta's backup is better than Vick

In his entire career, Sage has started 2 games--his overall stats(percentages) for his career are about the same as Carr, who has started over 70 games and is...well, he's still David.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

17 2 148 81 54.7 1041 7.03 77 9 7 4/21 13 4 77.6

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

Sage has more TDs than INT-Carr doesn't
Sage has a better YPA
Sage has completed a bigger percentage of passes over 20 yds than Carr
Sage has a higher QB rating than Carr

In fact, Carr only beats Sage in completion percentage, and we all know why that is....so,please, where has Sage done so badly?

A Texan
01-27-2007, 12:44 PM
What if the Broncs decided to trade Plummer to us for Carr straight up? A starter for a starter Carr can go fight Cutler for the job and Plummer comes here under Kubiak again and let him and Sage fight for the job. Then we still pick up a rookie from somewhere.

In my opinion, the only way the Texans are going to trade for Plummer is a Jake for David trade. Otherwise it's too big of a cap hit to have 2 8$million QB's. And if Jake wasn't the answer, can you imagine how the fans would villify the Texans for 2 costly mistakes at QB. But it probably wouldn't be "straight up". There would be a stipulation that if Jake started so many games, the Texans would have to give Denver a draft pick in 2008.

gtexan02
01-27-2007, 12:53 PM
In his entire career, Sage has started 2 games--his overall stats(percentages) for his career are about the same as Carr, who has started over 70 games and is...well, he's still David.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

17 2 148 81 54.7 1041 7.03 77 9 7 4/21 13 4 77.6

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

Sage has more TDs than INT-Carr doesn't
Sage has a better YPA
Sage has completed a bigger percentage of passes over 20 yds than Carr
Sage has a higher QB rating than Carr

In fact, Carr only beats Sage in completion percentage, and we all know why that is....so,please, where has Sage done so badly?


Instead of comparing apples to oranges, why don't you compare apples to apples? What has Sage done in his two starts compared to what Carr has done in his 75? Starting is NOT the same as being a backup! I don't know why this is such a hard thing to grasp. Defenses prepare all week for a starter, and its very tough to play against a defense keyed on you. Backing up is much easier, because the team wasn't expecting to see you.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

G 2
Att 48
Comp 21
Comp % 43.75
Yards 278
YPA 5.8
TD 1
INT 5
Rating 30.05

NATHANHALE
01-27-2007, 01:17 PM
Instead of comparing apples to oranges, why don't you compare apples to apples? What has Sage done in his two starts compared to what Carr has done in his 75? Starting is NOT the same as being a backup! I don't know why this is such a hard thing to grasp. Defenses prepare all week for a starter, and its very tough to play against a defense keyed on you. Backing up is much easier, because the team wasn't expecting to see you.

G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

76 75 2070 1243 60.0 13391 6.47 81 59 65 249/1466 143 21 75.5

G 2
Att 48
Comp 21
Comp % 43.75
Yards 278
YPA 5.8
TD 1
INT 5
Rating 30.05

On the other side of the coin, 2 games is not much of a real evaluation of any QB, as posters still make excuses for Carr after 75! The bottom line is that we don't know what we have in Sage as a starter long term, while we've had 5 yrs to evaluate David. Until someone else is given a chance to start, everything else is just spceulation. Certainly, Carr has a lot more than 2 games of sub-par play, including several this year--1st Titans game/NE/Raiders,etc.

And, I can understand your grasping issue because I wonder why so mjany posters don't realize that so many questions would be answered by playing someone else. Are there any other QBs-fresh out of college-that were handed Carr's scenario...just curious.

QB75
01-28-2007, 08:35 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

The Plummer rumour is admittedly entertaining. But it won't happen.

Reddevil63
01-28-2007, 08:38 PM
The Plummer rumour is admittedly entertaining. But it won't happen.

If the Broncos release him, it will happen quicker than this smiley can finish 7 beers :drunk:

Navy_Chris
01-28-2007, 08:42 PM
I would like to see Sage Rosenfels start the season for us. David needs to be traded for a 3rd round draft pick. Everyone's talking about him having the ability to be successful, all he needs is a good supporting cast. That would be true for most QBs in the league, but not David Carr. From the moment he got into the league, he's been constantly planted from every single direction. That, in a sense, shell-shocked him. Have you noticed that whenever David has time to make a good throw, he rushes it or is falling backwards when he throws?? That's because he's expecting to get hit. Another thing, he looks only for Andre Johnson..nobody else. If Andre isn't open, he immediately looks for his checkdown. That's not going to win you many games...I'm sorry.

I think it's funny how Sage only played 2 quarters against Tennessee and threw for 199 yards and 3 TD's...David can play an entire game and not have 199 yards passing. Also, Sage gets other people involved (Daniels, Moulds, etc.). David either throws to Andre, or checks it down. He was a wasted #1 pick in 2002 and he has not progressed ONE BIT!!...in 5 SEASONS. I'm sorry, but you don't give a #1 overall pick upwards of $40 million and 5 years to develop. Houston, you have a problem, and it's time to get rid of it.

CowboysTexansFan
01-28-2007, 08:44 PM
If the Broncos release him, it will happen quicker than this smiley can finish 7 beers :drunk:

Ditto that. Rick Smith has made very clear his intention to bring in serious competition for the QB position. If Plummer gets cut, he will be a natural fit given his familiarity with the offense and his history with Kubiak. I'm not at all going to anoint Plummer the savior of our team, because I don't think he's all that and a bag of chips, but Carr's play against the Raiders and Pats was absolutely atrocious and cannot be tolerated if the team is going to compete for the playoffs.

Reddevil63
01-28-2007, 08:50 PM
but Carr's play against the Raiders and Pats was absolutely atrocious and cannot be tolerated if the team is going to compete for the playoffs.
Im all for some competition, but tell that to Rex Grossman

Honoring Earl 34
01-28-2007, 08:53 PM
Im all for some competition, but tell that to Rex Grossman

Grossman's team was 13-3 ... they did'nt need the distraction .

David Carr will be told the company line and he'll be the last to be notified of what's happenin

1. Why you ask ... for one it would be tampering to mention Plummer .

2. Why would the Broncos cut Plummer if somebody wanted him hmmm ... better say we have a QB .

3. If we look desperate to ditch Carr ... well that gives the other guys leverage .

4. Nate Clements .... can anyone imagine a chat between he and Moulds ... then between Moulds and Smith . Throw AJ and his waisted ability into the chat .

SamuraiSword
01-29-2007, 12:15 AM
The Plummer rumour is admittedly entertaining. But it won't happen.

Lets change the colors of the team to fresno state colors and change the name to the David Texan's because the way you speak it doesn't matter too nobody, but david. Rick Smith is a real GM and I know he will get the job done. :bubble:

Also Dunta Robinson sure knows what the real problem is and I am glad he said something about it....

Kaiser Toro
01-29-2007, 06:03 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_5102544

Unlike recent Januarys and Februarys, the Broncos' brass is comfortably in control of its books.

There is no urgency or panic involved as the team begins planning for the 2007 season. The team already is close to $4 million under the salary cap.

In the past few years the team spent January and February restructuring several contracts. Last February the team purged Trevor Pryce, Mike Anderson and Jeb Putzier on its way to getting under the cap.

This year, Denver will cut players only if it decides they don't fit for football reasons. Still, there will be some moves.

Quarterback Jake Plummer will not be back. He will be traded or released. There are indications Denver hasn't decided how it will part with Plummer, who lost his starting job to rookie Jay Cutler with five games remaining. Plummer wants to leave, and will be gone.

wolfscar
01-29-2007, 06:31 AM
This is 'scratch my head' kind of stuff. OK, we have the posters that say Carr has never had 'everything' he needs around him to succeed like other QBs. Do the other 31 clubs all have this 'scenario' for their QBs?...just asking.

Secondly, as I understand it, to get Carr all the things Carr needs means getting--a better OL/star quality RB's/better WR's to go along with AJ (though he needs to drop fewer passes)/TE's, are we OK, here? And, finally, we need a better defense that can keep the other team from scoring so many points...oh,yes, almost forgot--with everything for David in place-we need to design schemes that cater to David's strengths.

Now, how much does all that cost and can we get it under the cap?

No, of course we can't, so what do we do....if Carr stays. JMO, but I don't think Carr is suddenly going to change after 5 yrs in the NFL so-if we keep him, what can we do as a team that we have the money for to improve Carr's play to a 'winning' level?

I think the point that many people are making is that the team's win-lose ratio is not one guy's fault. There are things that make a QB's role significantly easier - like an O-Line who knows how to block on occasion, a running attack that forces your opponent to commit defenders to stop it, some genuine options to throw to and a defense that can force the other team's hand. Up to now, the only one of those we've had is a running attack through DD, and it's not easy making passing plays when you're getting smacked in the mouth every play and you've only got one guy to throw to.

Thing is, now we have a defense that can stop other teams - even with the major gaps it has in personnel (and with this offseason we should be able to fill pretty much all those gaps). Our rushing attack is functional, but it doesn't force teams to commit extra defenders, but with better run blocking I think the guys we have can start to do that - particularly if Chris Taylor makes reasonable strides forward before next year. We have plenty of receiving options now, so that's completely off the table. Finally, our O-Line is still a great big question mark, but if they're all fit and with a little extra quality personnel, they should start to really click together as a unit.

In short then, if Rick Smith and co do a good job this offseason (and I really think they will), all the excuses should be gone by the start of next season. Dedicated QB coach, new Offensive coordinator who knows how to create effective passing plays and a head coach that's had his season of settling into the role and who briefly helped turn the hapless Jake Plummer into one of the best in the league. If Carr can't cut it next year then he sucks, plain and simple. And whilst I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't suck right now, I don't think you can close the book on him till you see him play on a team that doesn't suck so badly across the board, like we have the past five seasons.

We've spent a season trying to put together a team that's hard to beat. Let's complete that task first, and if David doesn't settle into place and start firing on all the cylinders so many people think he can, then it's time for him to go. I, for one though, would like to see him succeed here. He has a lot of plus points, and a lot of negatives, but this year we'll get to see how many of those negatives are purely from him and how many come from years of crappy coaching and bad personnel.

NATHANHALE
01-29-2007, 07:04 AM
I think the point that many people are making is that the team's win-lose ratio is not one guy's fault. There are things that make a QB's role significantly easier - like an O-Line who knows how to block on occasion, a running attack that forces your opponent to commit defenders to stop it, some genuine options to throw to and a defense that can force the other team's hand. Up to now, the only one of those we've had is a running attack through DD, and it's not easy making passing plays when you're getting smacked in the mouth every play and you've only got one guy to throw to.

Thing is, now we have a defense that can stop other teams - even with the major gaps it has in personnel (and with this offseason we should be able to fill pretty much all those gaps). Our rushing attack is functional, but it doesn't force teams to commit extra defenders, but with better run blocking I think the guys we have can start to do that - particularly if Chris Taylor makes reasonable strides forward before next year. We have plenty of receiving options now, so that's completely off the table. Finally, our O-Line is still a great big question mark, but if they're all fit and with a little extra quality personnel, they should start to really click together as a unit.

In short then, if Rick Smith and co do a good job this offseason (and I really think they will), all the excuses should be gone by the start of next season. Dedicated QB coach, new Offensive coordinator who knows how to create effective passing plays and a head coach that's had his season of settling into the role and who briefly helped turn the hapless Jake Plummer into one of the best in the league. If Carr can't cut it next year then he sucks, plain and simple. And whilst I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't suck right now, I don't think you can close the book on him till you see him play on a team that doesn't suck so badly across the board, like we have the past five seasons.

We've spent a season trying to put together a team that's hard to beat. Let's complete that task first, and if David doesn't settle into place and start firing on all the cylinders so many people think he can, then it's time for him to go. I, for one though, would like to see him succeed here. He has a lot of plus points, and a lot of negatives, but this year we'll get to see how many of those negatives are purely from him and how many come from years of crappy coaching and bad personnel.

At times last year, Carr had all of the things you are talking about seeing in '07. The OL gave up 26 fewer sacks and we had some improved rushing in the middle and latter stages of the year. Too, we had a new #2 and #3 WR's and new TE's that got involved in the passing game,as well. Our defense started out slow but got better as the year went along.

In fact, Carr was the 'one' piece of the puzzle that got worse, throwing for only 4 tds in the final 12 games-compared to 7 in the first 4 games. For the year, he had more ints than tds and had several games--some we even won--where he was there in 'body' and was only expected not to make mistakes and lose the game. We started off the season with David throwing for over 200 yds and 1 td and ended with him throwing for 86 yds and an int. In 11 of the 16 games, Carr was sacked-on avg-less than twice a game.

Bottom line in '06-despite the injuries and everything new-there was no reason (excuse) for Carr not to have played better. There is not a single NFL QB that has every single play of every single game go their way, so those of you waiting for that to happen for David have a long wait that ain't gonna happen. What other QB's do that Carr has never done, is step up and make plays when 'things' are right around them.

JMO, what we've seen with David--no matter what else is done around him--is not going to change...we're just delaying the inevitable...:brickwall :brickwall

Arky
01-29-2007, 10:54 AM
I think the point that many people are making is that the team's win-lose ratio is not one guy's fault. There are things that make a QB's role significantly easier - like an O-Line who knows how to block on occasion, a running attack that forces your opponent to commit defenders to stop it, some genuine options to throw to and a defense that can force the other team's hand. Up to now, the only one of those we've had is a running attack through DD, and it's not easy making passing plays when you're getting smacked in the mouth every play and you've only got one guy to throw to.

Thing is, now we have a defense that can stop other teams - even with the major gaps it has in personnel (and with this offseason we should be able to fill pretty much all those gaps). Our rushing attack is functional, but it doesn't force teams to commit extra defenders, but with better run blocking I think the guys we have can start to do that - particularly if Chris Taylor makes reasonable strides forward before next year. We have plenty of receiving options now, so that's completely off the table. Finally, our O-Line is still a great big question mark, but if they're all fit and with a little extra quality personnel, they should start to really click together as a unit.

In short then, if Rick Smith and co do a good job this offseason (and I really think they will), all the excuses should be gone by the start of next season. Dedicated QB coach, new Offensive coordinator who knows how to create effective passing plays and a head coach that's had his season of settling into the role and who briefly helped turn the hapless Jake Plummer into one of the best in the league. If Carr can't cut it next year then he sucks, plain and simple. And whilst I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't suck right now, I don't think you can close the book on him till you see him play on a team that doesn't suck so badly across the board, like we have the past five seasons.

We've spent a season trying to put together a team that's hard to beat. Let's complete that task first, and if David doesn't settle into place and start firing on all the cylinders so many people think he can, then it's time for him to go. I, for one though, would like to see him succeed here. He has a lot of plus points, and a lot of negatives, but this year we'll get to see how many of those negatives are purely from him and how many come from years of crappy coaching and bad personnel.

Good post. Well thought out.

I'd like to see Chris Taylor make it, too.... I think he should visit the Tiki Barber School of How not to Fumble in the NFL and he'll be good to go....

HoustonFrog
01-29-2007, 11:32 AM
I think the point that many people are making is that the team's win-lose ratio is not one guy's fault. There are things that make a QB's role significantly easier - like an O-Line who knows how to block on occasion, a running attack that forces your opponent to commit defenders to stop it, some genuine options to throw to and a defense that can force the other team's hand. Up to now, the only one of those we've had is a running attack through DD, and it's not easy making passing plays when you're getting smacked in the mouth every play and you've only got one guy to throw to.

Thing is, now we have a defense that can stop other teams - even with the major gaps it has in personnel (and with this offseason we should be able to fill pretty much all those gaps). Our rushing attack is functional, but it doesn't force teams to commit extra defenders, but with better run blocking I think the guys we have can start to do that - particularly if Chris Taylor makes reasonable strides forward before next year. We have plenty of receiving options now, so that's completely off the table. Finally, our O-Line is still a great big question mark, but if they're all fit and with a little extra quality personnel, they should start to really click together as a unit.

In short then, if Rick Smith and co do a good job this offseason (and I really think they will), all the excuses should be gone by the start of next season. Dedicated QB coach, new Offensive coordinator who knows how to create effective passing plays and a head coach that's had his season of settling into the role and who briefly helped turn the hapless Jake Plummer into one of the best in the league. If Carr can't cut it next year then he sucks, plain and simple. And whilst I'm not necessarily saying that he doesn't suck right now, I don't think you can close the book on him till you see him play on a team that doesn't suck so badly across the board, like we have the past five seasons.

We've spent a season trying to put together a team that's hard to beat. Let's complete that task first, and if David doesn't settle into place and start firing on all the cylinders so many people think he can, then it's time for him to go. I, for one though, would like to see him succeed here. He has a lot of plus points, and a lot of negatives, but this year we'll get to see how many of those negatives are purely from him and how many come from years of crappy coaching and bad personnel.

I think what alot of people are saying is that it isn't one guys fault but you can only have so many excuses after 5 years. I think the O-line, RBs and WRs would have alot better stats of they had a QB who didn't take sacks while outside the pocket and no one in his face for 3 seconds. Their stats would be better if the QB learned how to look off a DB and didn't eye screw his receivers before delivering the ball. The point isn't that he has shown progress and the others players haven't. The point is that he is stuck in first gear after 5 years and can't learn the basic tenents of being an NFL QB. People are tired of excuses. We live in a parity filled league where their are injuries and most teams don't have a complete team. We also live in a time where you need to watch many football games to apperciate what QBS on other teams do. Dallas is a perfect example this year. Bledsoe was horrible and a statue in the pocket. He was getting pounded. The O-line was getting grief up there. Believe me, I read and heard it from family. Then Romo comes in and for a 5-1 stretch you didn't hear anything about the O-line, etc and the RBs were doing great. Some QBs know how to handle the pressure, know how to slide in the pocket and know how to get rid of the ball. Don't fool yourself into thinking all of their lines are great. They just help their line out. People are going to have to learn that part of a teams problems are mental and inside the locker room and no matter how good a guy Carr is there is alway a cloud of dissension because of the past and because of the fans, etc. A competition this year will make it worse. This team and Carr himself are better off parting ways. People are tired of excuses while other teams like the Browns and others have already shown that ditching a #1 QB isn't the worst thing to do whether they are winning or not.

wolfscar
01-29-2007, 03:32 PM
At times last year, Carr had all of the things you are talking about seeing in '07. The OL gave up 26 fewer sacks and we had some improved rushing in the middle and latter stages of the year. Too, we had a new #2 and #3 WR's and new TE's that got involved in the passing game,as well. Our defense started out slow but got better as the year went along.

In fact, Carr was the 'one' piece of the puzzle that got worse, throwing for only 4 tds in the final 12 games-compared to 7 in the first 4 games. For the year, he had more ints than tds and had several games--some we even won--where he was there in 'body' and was only expected not to make mistakes and lose the game. We started off the season with David throwing for over 200 yds and 1 td and ended with him throwing for 86 yds and an int. In 11 of the 16 games, Carr was sacked-on avg-less than twice a game.

Bottom line in '06-despite the injuries and everything new-there was no reason (excuse) for Carr not to have played better. There is not a single NFL QB that has every single play of every single game go their way, so those of you waiting for that to happen for David have a long wait that ain't gonna happen. What other QB's do that Carr has never done, is step up and make plays when 'things' are right around them.

JMO, what we've seen with David--no matter what else is done around him--is not going to change...we're just delaying the inevitable...:brickwall :brickwall

I do see your point, and in many ways I agree with you, but the way Carr was handled by Kubiak made no sense to me towards the end of the season. He started the season out pretty good - it's not often you see him leading the league in QB rating - but then Kubes obviously decided that priority no.1 was to eliminate the mental frailty that was rife through the team, so the plays got far more consrevative. I was behind him for that - I think that was the team's biggest problem at the time - but then the mental frailty disappeared and the plays just kept getting more and more conservative.

My point here is that Carr completed most of what he was asked to complete, and there were quite a few passes he dropped right onto AJ in or near the end zone that should have been caught and weren't. Even as I'm writing that it sounds like an excuse but that's not why I'm writing it - I just wanted to make the point that we saw a lot of weird, timid play calls from the coaching staff, so it's hard to pin it all on David.

That being said - Kubiak has to go with a QB he's confident in, so if David's not that guy then yes he should go. For me that would be a disappointment though purely because he was put in a weird position towards the end of 06. I'd like to see DC being asked to make genuine plays and pulling them off, but if either (a)he can't do that or (b)they're not comfortable asking it of him then both he and the Texans would be better off apart.

wolfscar
01-29-2007, 03:50 PM
I think what alot of people are saying is that it isn't one guys fault but you can only have so many excuses after 5 years. I think the O-line, RBs and WRs would have alot better stats of they had a QB who didn't take sacks while outside the pocket and no one in his face for 3 seconds. Their stats would be better if the QB learned how to look off a DB and didn't eye screw his receivers before delivering the ball. The point isn't that he has shown progress and the others players haven't. The point is that he is stuck in first gear after 5 years and can't learn the basic tenents of being an NFL QB. People are tired of excuses. We live in a parity filled league where their are injuries and most teams don't have a complete team. We also live in a time where you need to watch many football games to apperciate what QBS on other teams do. Dallas is a perfect example this year. Bledsoe was horrible and a statue in the pocket. He was getting pounded. The O-line was getting grief up there. Believe me, I read and heard it from family. Then Romo comes in and for a 5-1 stretch you didn't hear anything about the O-line, etc and the RBs were doing great. Some QBs know how to handle the pressure, know how to slide in the pocket and know how to get rid of the ball. Don't fool yourself into thinking all of their lines are great. They just help their line out. People are going to have to learn that part of a teams problems are mental and inside the locker room and no matter how good a guy Carr is there is alway a cloud of dissension because of the past and because of the fans, etc. A competition this year will make it worse. This team and Carr himself are better off parting ways. People are tired of excuses while other teams like the Browns and others have already shown that ditching a #1 QB isn't the worst thing to do whether they are winning or not.

All very good points - and I remember the stick that the Dallas O-Line was getting when Bledsoe was asking them to give him a day and a half to make each throw. I suppose the thing with Carr is that a lot of time and money has gone into the guy and I think this coming year is the first one that things are really going to be in place to evaluate him without any excuses. Also, if we do change the QB now then we're either going to have to bring in a dubious veteran or a completely untried rookie, and take a major cap hit in the process. If Drew Brees or Carson Palmer was a free agent then great, bring them in, but Jake Plummer? We'd be moving sideways and paying for the privilege.

DC looks to me like a QB who needs a good coach to do anything worthwhile. Someone who can be his coach's arm on the field, if you see what I mean. He has some horrible habits, but they're all habits that rookies have coming into the league and are usually coached out within a season. Staring down his receivers is the one that makes me want to punch him; and as someone on this board said a while back, if I'd been sacked that many times you could run me down with a Mack truck and I'd still be clutching the ball in my cold, dead hands.

It's a tough call, because no matter how you look at it, his growth as a player has been stunted by the previous regime and the pressure they placed on his shoulders. Some guys thrive on that - he obviously hasn't. Having said that though, a no.1 overall pick should have progressed, regardless of who's around him. Again though, he hasn't. I'm not going to be upset if we bring someone better in, but I'd rather we make something of what we've got. If that can't be done, so be it. I just hope that Kubiak makes whatever call proves to be best for the team.

Texas
01-29-2007, 05:14 PM
Yea and maybe plummer will be nice and get signed for a nice little 1 million per year contract...right....:)

texans83
01-29-2007, 05:22 PM
Yea and maybe plummer will be nice and get signed for a nice little 1 million per year contract...right....:)

I doubt that!!!! Wouldn't mind bringing him in if that was the case!!!!!

thunderkyss
01-29-2007, 05:41 PM
Also, if we do change the QB now then we're either going to have to bring in a dubious veteran or a completely untried rookie, and take a major cap hit in the process.

FYI......... if we cut David.... we save $3 million on the cap.

Trading David or keeping David would cost us $3 mill towards the cap more than it would if we just cut him.

Malloy
01-29-2007, 05:55 PM
FYI......... if we cut David.... we save $3 million on the cap.

Trading David or keeping David would cost us $3 mill towards the cap more than it would if we just cut him.

CUT CUT CUT. Come on Front office, end the suspense, make me happy :)

infantrycak
01-29-2007, 05:55 PM
FYI......... if we cut David.... we save $3 million on the cap.

Trading David or keeping David would cost us $3 mill towards the cap more than it would if we just cut him.

No, keeping Carr costs $3.25 mil more due to his cap hit of salary plus $2 mil prorated bonus which totals $7.25 mil. Trading or cutting him makes the Texans responsible for the $4 mil in unprorated bonus. The only difference between trading or cutting him is the potential that if cut, they would spread the hit for the $4 mil over two years by availing themselves of the June 1 cut mechanism.

El Amigo Invisible
01-29-2007, 06:52 PM
CUT CUT CUT. Come on Front office, end the suspense, make me happy :)

They have never done anything right. Why would they start now?:drunk:

TEXANRED
01-29-2007, 08:34 PM
CUT CUT CUT. Come on Front office, end the suspense, make me happy :)

And while we are at cutting the people who are responsible for the Texans lack of success, I say we also cut:

Earl
Brown
Faggins
Orr
Greenwood
TJ
Payne
Saalam
Weigart
DHodge
Cook
Lundy
Moulds
Wong
Peek
Babin
Flannagen
McKinney

Did I miss anyone?

gtexan02
01-29-2007, 08:42 PM
And while we are at cutting the people who are responsible for the Texans lack of success, I say we also cut:

Earl
Brown
Faggins
Orr
Greenwood
TJ
Payne
Saalam
Weigart
DHodge
Cook
Lundy
Moulds
Wong
Peek
Babin
Flannagen
McKinney

Did I miss anyone?

The fans

Ole Miss Texan
01-29-2007, 09:13 PM
Wow so I guess our team will look like this?

QB: Sage Rosenfels
RB: Ron Dayne
FB: Vonta Leach
WR: Andre Johnson
TE: Owen Daniels
OL:Charles Spencer, Eric Winston,Chester Pitts, Fred Weary

DE: Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver
DT: Anthony Maddox, Thomas Johnson
LB: Demeco Ryans
CB: Dunta Robinson

KR: Jerome Mathis

Take the offense and I see probably 1 or two starters on another team.
Take the defense and I see probably 3 or 4 starters on another team.

We've got our KR/PR when healthy.

Just cuz some of the guys suck doesn't mean we can cut them. We have to have some backups to backup our starters who half of them shouldn't be starting to beging with.

NATHANHALE
01-29-2007, 09:28 PM
I do see your point, and in many ways I agree with you, but the way Carr was handled by Kubiak made no sense to me towards the end of the season. He started the season out pretty good - it's not often you see him leading the league in QB rating - but then Kubes obviously decided that priority no.1 was to eliminate the mental frailty that was rife through the team, so the plays got far more consrevative. I was behind him for that - I think that was the team's biggest problem at the time - but then the mental frailty disappeared and the plays just kept getting more and more conservative.

My point here is that Carr completed most of what he was asked to complete, and there were quite a few passes he dropped right onto AJ in or near the end zone that should have been caught and weren't. Even as I'm writing that it sounds like an excuse but that's not why I'm writing it - I just wanted to make the point that we saw a lot of weird, timid play calls from the coaching staff, so it's hard to pin it all on David.

That being said - Kubiak has to go with a QB he's confident in, so if David's not that guy then yes he should go. For me that would be a disappointment though purely because he was put in a weird position towards the end of 06. I'd like to see DC being asked to make genuine plays and pulling them off, but if either (a)he can't do that or (b)they're not comfortable asking it of him then both he and the Texans would be better off apart.

I totally agree about the play calling. IMO, Kubiak made a huge mistake in 'dumb downing' the offense for Carr. Kubiak should have stuck to his guns and expected Carr to learn/grasp and execute his offense/game plan--if he couldn't, Gary should have tried someone else-ending the year with no verticle passing game and not knowing if someone could have done better was a wasted oppurtunity. Questions we've had about our QB situation--heck, our entire offense--are still with us as we enter 2007.

Finally, please spare me the BS about who we had on the bench after Sage went down-could their play have been worse than Carr's?...maybe. It also could have been better, too.

TEXANRED
01-29-2007, 10:47 PM
Wow so I guess our team will look like this?

QB: Sage Rosenfels
RB: Ron Dayne
FB: Vonta Leach
WR: Andre Johnson
TE: Owen Daniels
OL:Charles Spencer, Eric Winston,Chester Pitts, Fred Weary

DE: Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver
DT: Anthony Maddox, Thomas Johnson
LB: Demeco Ryans
CB: Dunta Robinson

KR: Jerome Mathis

Take the offense and I see probably 1 or two starters on another team.
Take the defense and I see probably 3 or 4 starters on another team.

We've got our KR/PR when healthy.

Just cuz some of the guys suck doesn't mean we can cut them. We have to have some backups to backup our starters who half of them shouldn't be starting to beging with.

My point is if we are going to throw one guy under the bus then his partners in crime should go as well.

Heck, Cook single handedly lost us two games.

This team is still a good two years away from being a true contender, so my overly stated and often wrong opinion is, what would the point be in cutting Carr at this point? (Yes I know, my opinion is a question) With no true franchise QB in the FA market what do the Texans have to gain? We would still have to over pay someone to come in and play behind this awful line and non existent running game.

Even if you do decide to part ways with Carr and then draft another QB you would still have to sign a FA QB to step in while the new guy learns the ropes. Then what do we do? Watch the new guy struggle as the learns the system just so he can step aside so we can watch the rookie QB struggle as he learns the system?

Lets also not forget that the QB we sign will want money and a multi year contract just so he can wind up holding a clip board making starting QB money while the rooking goes out and plays.

The Texans can not exactly go out and throw money around in FA. We are at the 13 million mark but if we cut or trade Carr he costs us at least 4 million (which puts us at 9 million but then add back the 3.25 from the 7.25 Carr is scheduled to make) then you have to sign a QB (which will probably cost us another 4 putting us at 8.25) then you have to sign your 07 draft class, and if I am not mistaken MW cost us 6 million last year.

Yes I did read the salary cap thread where we could save an additional 11.1 million this year but then have 14.6 in dead money added to next years cap. Just so we can cut more people next year to save money to add to the 08 cap.

I almost feel like I am in that commercial..........I work longer hours to make more money so I can do more coke so I can work longer hours to make more money so I can do more coke so I can work longer hours to make more money so I can do more coke so I can work..................

GNTLEWOLF
01-29-2007, 11:35 PM
I will be interested to see how Carr performs in 2007 if they bring him back. I will say that he may just not be the guy Houston needs. However; I do know that Plummer is not the QB that you want. If we are looking for a QB, lets find a real winner. The attitude that any old Qb will do as long as it isn't Carr is a good way to find that you have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.

NFLforher
01-29-2007, 11:38 PM
I just have this feeling he will end up here...



Me too.

SamuraiSword
01-30-2007, 12:52 AM
And while we are at cutting the people who are responsible for the Texans lack of success, I say we also cut:

Earl
Brown
Faggins
Orr
Greenwood
TJ
Payne
Saalam
Weigart
DHodge
Cook
Lundy
Moulds
Wong
Peek
Babin
Flannagen
McKinney


Did I miss anyone?


The only one I agree with is Cook. The rest I just laugh at because they all did quite well.

oh yeah forgot to mention Brown is not good as well.

stingray
01-30-2007, 12:56 AM
Jake Plummer reminds me of a girlfriend who will get you by for the meantime... You know the Type, Good looking, Smart, but there something about her that doesn't seem quite right.. But she will do, until you eventually meet "the right one"...

Malloy
01-30-2007, 04:21 AM
The fans

It would be rather far-fetched to blame the teams lack of performance on the fans :)

Malloy
01-30-2007, 04:23 AM
Jake Plummer reminds me of a girlfriend who will get you by for the meantime... You know the Type, Good looking, Smart, but there something about her that doesn't seem quite right.. But she will do, until you eventually meet "the right one"...

When Plummer starts reminding you of your girlfriend, you should consider stop dating all together :)

wolfscar
01-30-2007, 09:12 AM
FYI......... if we cut David.... we save $3 million on the cap.

Trading David or keeping David would cost us $3 mill towards the cap more than it would if we just cut him.

That does make things interesting. I guess the question then becomes 'Is it better to pay $7million for a guy who's disappointed for five years and may or may not do so for another year or $4million for nothing at all?'

The answer's not immediately obvious, depending on the alternatives. I don't want us to bring in Plummer though. That seems like as big a risk as keeping DC, IMO. And probably not a whole lot cheaper, when all's said and done.

Lucky
01-30-2007, 09:21 AM
Jake Plummer reminds me of a girlfriend who will get you by for the meantime... You know the Type, Good looking, Smart, but there something about her that doesn't seem quite right...
I'm guessing that "something" might be the beard.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/NFL/Playoffs/2006/01/21/plummer_jake250.jpg

stingray
01-30-2007, 12:07 PM
I'm guessing that "something" might be the beard.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/NFL/Playoffs/2006/01/21/plummer_jake250.jpg

Nah, Not the beard, he just not the reliable type.. You know, just when you think she is your "girl" she ends up screwing you over... Throws an interception in a tie game with 3 minutes left on the clock...

thunderkyss
01-30-2007, 12:56 PM
The only one I agree with is Cook. The rest I just laugh at because they all did quite well.

oh yeah forgot to mention Brown is not good as well.

Speaking of Brown...... & Earl for that matter. I haven't seen anything from either that would suggest they shouldn't be on this team...... or that they shouldn't be starters.

Just like you have different kinds of RBs, QBs, & CBs, you have different types of Safeties. Not every starting safety in this league will be a Roy Williams, or a Troy Palamala(sp)....... I think Both of our safeties are good-very good against the run.. sure, it would be nice to have someone who is great. & as far as coverage goes..... yeah, they both bite on the play action pretty hard...... so does our LBs, so does our CBs.. Run defense is preached as something that is pretty important around here, and we were really bad at it in '05.

but from watching the games, just from what I'm seeing, it looks like Brown & Earl(Brown especially) was told to keep everything in front of him. Since about week 4 or 5, I think that's pretty much what he did, and we didn't give up many big plays after that. The back to back 83 yard TDs to LeeEvans was there, but I doubt CC was told to be ready for that.

I'm not saying we don't need a new FS...... I'd rather have a real #1 Corner(with Dunta as our #2), & I'd like for our front 7 to be able to stop the run leaving the DBs to do their thang.

real
01-30-2007, 01:02 PM
C.C vs. Faggins

QB75
01-30-2007, 04:48 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

Newsprint blather. Kubiak wasn't quoted. Just the reporter filling up space.

Mr. White
01-30-2007, 04:52 PM
Newsprint blather. Kubiak wasn't quoted. Just the reporter filling up space.

More and more newspaper guys seem to keep using that same story to "fill space." It had to come from somewhere.

QB75
01-30-2007, 05:28 PM
And while we are at cutting the people who are responsible for the Texans lack of success, I say we also cut:

Earl
Brown
Faggins
Orr
Greenwood
TJ
Payne
Saalam
Weigart
DHodge
Cook
Lundy
Moulds
Wong
Peek
Babin
Flannagen
McKinney

Did I miss anyone?

No, just the whole point.

QB75
01-30-2007, 05:29 PM
More and more newspaper guys seem to keep using that same story to "fill space." It had to come from somewhere.

Gee, then it must be true.

jerek
01-30-2007, 06:51 PM
More and more newspaper guys seem to keep using that same story to "fill space." It had to come from somewhere.

Probably the same "somewhere" that had us drafting Reggie Bush last year, eh?

Mr. White
01-30-2007, 08:12 PM
Probably the same "somewhere" that had us drafting Reggie Bush last year, eh?

Actually, we know now that "somewhere" was Casserly leaking info to the national media (especially Chris Mortenson.)

Similar to what's going on now IMO.

TEXANRED
01-30-2007, 09:19 PM
The only one I agree with is Cook. The rest I just laugh at because they all did quite well.

oh yeah forgot to mention Brown is not good as well.

Here are my thoughts:

Paynes best years are behind. He has not been a real dominant force on the front lines and if he does not have some nagging injury limiting his playing time he is blowing out an ACL.

Wong, never was impressed. Sure he is charming and polite but he is not exactly a monster out on the playing field. For a point of reference look no further than Ryans. Wong is none of that with a bag of chips. Have you ever seen him rush the passer? Runs straight into the OL and plays patty cake.

Faggins is a great Nickle or Dime back, not a number two guy. Faggins is capable of making those great plays but is just as prone to giving up two straight 85 yard touchdown passes.

TJ, do I need to say it?

Orr, um, did he even crack 40 tackles? Show any signs of adjusting to the 43?

Greenwood, as stated in another thread, his stats look good but really he is just another Jay Forman.

Peek, seems to always be hurt. Also the last two seasons it seems his fire has gone out. His production has been erratic and undependable.

Babin, too small to play end full time, not athletic enough to cover the flats. He is a tweener without a home.

Brown and Earl, these two are a terrible tandem. Ok so they find priority one stopping the run while there buddy Faggins looks like PBuc Jr. You never see these guys being in just the right position to break up a pass or make a play on the ball. Maybe its not them, maybe its the Backs coach.

Saalam, great for depth but not a starter. He is better than Riley.

McKinney, just average.

Weigart, every year it seems like he regresses a little more.

I am on the fence with Pitts. Doesn't seem like in the Zone scheme he does a good job of getting to that second level. Maybe he will shed some weight this off season.

Moulds, did he forget how to run fast, or has father time met him in Houston?

Our running backs, they are inconsistent and that is about the nicest thing I can say.

Williams gets a free pass this year cus he is a rookie. Check back this time next year.


And I am one of the optimists on the board.

Two years home groans. Two years till I think we make a serious run to the palyoffs.

Also, keep in mind this is just my opinion.

Kaiser Toro
01-30-2007, 09:36 PM
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

The Plummer rumour is admittedly entertaining. But it won't happen.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5303726,00.html

Houston Texans: Coach Gary Kubiak is looking for a veteran because David Carr's play regressed and Kubiak likes Plummer as a player. Plummer always has said he enjoyed playing for Kubiak, a former Broncos offensive coordinator.

Newsprint blather. Kubiak wasn't quoted. Just the reporter filling up space.

:penalty: Quoting the original post twice in the same thread is cool. :wheel:

jerek
01-31-2007, 09:56 AM
Actually, we know now that "somewhere" was Casserly leaking info to the national media (especially Chris Mortenson.)

Similar to what's going on now IMO.

Was it? Cass was pretty tightlipped about everything. Everybody, everywhere reported with gospel certainty that we were taking Reggie Bush last year. They didn't all get it off wire reports: the media like to speculate and the media is fueled by controversy. Talking about replacing Carr with another castoff malcontent provides both.

Sure, Plummer may yet end up here, but I have a hard time seeing him going to a worse team for less pay for which he still wouldn't be guaranteed a starting job, whether he'd get to play for Kubiak or not. If you don't have a hard time seeing that, then that's okay with me, but I do.

edo783
01-31-2007, 11:47 AM
In a lot of casses, the media is just fuled by the media. Some bonehead makes some sort of speculative or rumor based comment and other services pick it up and pretty soon it is being reported as fact. Kind of like something on this board get reported.

dirty steve
01-31-2007, 03:26 PM
Sure, Plummer may yet end up here, but I have a hard time seeing him going to a worse team for less pay for which he still wouldn't be guaranteed a starting job, whether he'd get to play for Kubiak or not. If you don't have a hard time seeing that, then that's okay with me, but I do.
I'd like to see Carr moved out and Plummer brought in, but if grabbing AP and seeing what Carr can do with that is what they decide to do then I'm fine. Change under center is all I ask (I heisted that from another poster). As long as that happens then I think alot of us would be pacified. Change can mean better play from Carr, a different QB altogether, or a LEGIT QB competition in training camp.